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Atrios makes a very interesting observation:
…[I]t’s remarkable and distressing that while the right wing noise machine hasn’t managed to move public opinion on Iraq at all, it’s been quite successful at moving the elite discourse and perhaps the opinions of lawmakers.
You know, all this time, I’ve always assumed that the primary target audience of the corporate media and the crazy wingnut media was the American people in general, or at least those most susceptible to hate, fear, and baldfaced lies.
But what if it’s actually been the Democratic establishment all along? It would certainly explain the media and noise machine’s fondness for making absurdly wrong claims about what “the American people” want (war, warrantless wiretaps, Social Security reform, theocracy) or don’t want (oversight, gay marriage, legal abortions, Mexicans).
I figured it was a peer-pressure mindgame to make people adopt right-wing views out of a desire to fit in and be cool. But maybe the real intent was for Democrats and their consultants to see it and say, “OMG! Every poll we’ve ever read is COMPLETELY WRONG! David Broder tells us we need to lay off the oversight and antiwar stuff and start talking about Jesus instead! Thank God we read his column in time!”
If so, it’s a double benefit to the Republicans: It alienates Democrats from their base, making it harder for them to get elected; and it ensures that there are always enough Bush Dogs and LieberDems to give the Republicans functioning majorities in Congress.
As Atrios says, it really is quite “remarkable and distressing” to realize that either the average American voter is smarter and more perceptive than the Democratic party leadership, or that that leadership is so monumentally out of touch with its constituents and the American people, that it would rather read about us secondhand than actually listen. Either way, we’re screwed.
Of course, I know there are a lot of very good Democrats; we’ve helped elect some of them. But they’re not the ones calling the shots, and the ones who are don’t feel accountable to grubby commoners like us.
(Note: You may have noticed that I glossed over “elite discourse” as a target audience of the noise machine. This is because I consider ED to be part of the noise machine. The members of it who get to be on TV, anyway.)
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helloooo Eli
1
Damn you LL! I want my Robben Ford recommendation back! *g*
Hiya, LL!
Eli!
GordonM @ 3
Heh ;-)
Eli, love the Wurlitzer pic ;-)
Evening, all!
Hiya, Riesz! Hiya, PB!
Thanks, LL – I realized that I’m not entirely sure whether the right-wing Wurlitzer is supposed to be the organ kind or the jukebox kind. I figured the organ was more likely, and looked cooler.
The democrats need to throw this motherfucker Lieberman out of the party. They can’t do shit anyway so why not show some courage on that front? KO pointed out he is at Hannity’s pig fest tonite.
raven @ 10
Seconded
Eli @ 9
In my mind I always imagined it as the organ type.
Boxer should be Speaker, because she speaks for the entire country, except for those five people that keep calling into Washington Journal reading talkin’ points someone sent them.
Actually, I don’t think that’s unusual at all. Most professional elites have a vocabulary they can hide behind, to make others think they are really special. Politics doesn’t, but getting elected (and thinking you’re the best, not the least worst) has the same effect – making them think they’re really special.
LS @ 13
She’s a Friend Of Joe, though. How about Feingold?
Actually, Speaker would be the House, so maybe Waxman, or Louise Slaughter…
Lieberman needs to learn to put America first and in my opinion his questions today did not do that.
GordonM @ 14
Like Dubya, I think they’ve forgotten who works for who.
JPL @ 11
Has Lieberman ever been good for anything(besides lobby that supports Israel — was he ever progressive about anything? Is this some sort of recent condition (anyone check his brain waves lately?), or has he been this much of a creep all of his life and was sort of hiding out as a Democrat?
Waxman as Speaker — wow, that’d be great!
I just can’t escape the nagging sensation that the two Democratic fronrunners are mediocre at best. And the view is that the times demand more than that.
Some argue that HRC is a friend of Mr. Lieberman.
Larry Flynt on right now with Vitter’s girl on Dan Abrams. MSNBC
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
I avoided the presidential aspect of this, but yeah, I feel the same way. Clinton and Obama are too cautious.
Lieberman has close ties to the DLC, as does Hillary.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
Hillary is a *member* of the DLC. Not sure about Joe, he might be too far right even for them…
Posted this earlier:
Sometimes I get the sense that the Democrats know that if the GOP machine commits the resources to a given PR effort, no matter how hard they try to combat the message with the truth, they can’t “catapult the propaganda”. This seemed to be the case with the Petraeus circus. They spent millions on making sure that the media and the American people bit into it hook, line and sinker and the Dems knew they wouldn’t prevail (in the war of words) since they don’t have the machine in their corner. It’s akin to conceding any political race. You know you won’t win so you pick your next battle.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
By “two frontrunners” do you mean the guy from Illinois and the She-Lieberman?
And don’t ever forget the power of that RovianRedux InfoPimp Factory run by fast Eddie G. that has been pumping high end crank into the main veins of 5000 of ‘em every single day since last January 10th…….
.
cleter @ 27
Sheberman?
Eli @ 25
I forget, does that stand for: Democrat’s are Losers Committee?
I think Atrios is wrong. They have managed to move public opinion in Iraq. First of all, when Bush went in there was like 80% approval for it in the US (as opposed to near zero everywhere else on the planet). Second, they’ve used every piece of bad news coming out of Iraq as an excuse to bash the “left wing media” to the point where the Repug base cherry picks what it believes in the paper. And Third, if they hadn’t succeeded, we’d be having rational debates about what to do in Iraq, as opposed to this stupid “stay the course” or “pull out and be chickens” debate that is thrown out there as the only option. As long as they keep lying about everything, as they’ve been doing, public opinion is at a loss about what to do in Iraq.
GeorgeSimian @ 31
I think their influence has weakened. We’re not exactly seeing a lot of support for “stay the course” or “give it another six months”. Most Americans just do not believe in the war anymore, and want to see us get the hell out.
I do not appreciate Joe Lieberman’s contributions to the political discourse.
Elliott @ 30
Mr. Lieberman is a former Chair of the DLC. 1995-2001.
LS:
Further to your concerns about the military stand-down Friday, note there’s a presidential address to the nation on Thursday night.
Jack Goldsmith’s testimony that’s likely to prove Gonzales lied under oath is scheduled for Monday Sept. 17 – same as his book’s pub date, same day Gonzales leaves… and Constitutioon Day.
Al The Spook should be along in a minute, hope he’ll say something about the (frankly, terrifying) comments on his blog page.
Hmmm.
joe is STILL a dem? i thought he left a while ago…. he sure sounds and acts as a repug
cleter @ 27
Yes… ;0)
It’s not a democrat repub landscape but a corporatist and this is more aligned with the republican world view. But since money and wealth are king in the USA the dems suck up to that view and shun the workers.
War is good for bidness. The MSM is a big bidness and see the world though the what’s good for corporations is good for america prism.
Dems believe that rubbish… and are skeered shitless of corporations.
Eli @ 32
They want out, but they’ve been scared into thinking that the consequences will be worse. So they’ve been confused. That’s long enough to let the Democrats get into power and take the blame for losing this war.
Eli @ 25
In fact Lieberman was a chair of the DLC after Big Dog
Is that Lieberace’s organ? heh.
SanderO @ 38
The thought also occurred that the noise machine is simply providing the Democrats with convenient cover for their corporatist tendencies.
juslin @ 36
He is an Independent. Ned Lamont won the Democratic nomination so he (Lieberman) ran and won as an independent. He caucuses with the Democrats, but sells them down the river every chance he can get in return for some plum committee assignments.
Boxer — I <3 Boxer, but she does make mistakes. I contacted her office to object to her endorsement of Lieberman over Lamont (on account of the former’s incredibly callous comments that rape victims, can “just go to some other hospital” if they are denied EC) and I got a form letter back about the larger picture, not losing to Rethugs. I am also disappointed in her lack of voting on the FISA and have not gotten a response back on that one yet. But overall, this is one gutsy, progressive woman, and I’m very pleased she’s one of the senators for this state…
tw3k @ 41
eewwww
Breaking, and Under the radar:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/20223
“As Wright left the hearing room, Conyers asked
Capital Police to escort her out. Despite orders from Conyers not to
arrest her, Capital Police officers arrested her for exercising her
first amendment rights. She is being processed at the D Street
Station but has not been notified of any charges.
This is the second times in less than a week that a citizen opposing
the Iraq war in Congress was subject to a random arrest. Last
Thursday, CODEPINK Co-Founder Gael Murphy and two other CODEPINK
members were arrested outside the House Appropriations Committee
hearing. As documented on YOUTUBE, Capital Police aggressively
arrested Murphy and prevented citizens from attending the hearing on
the Supplemental Funding for the Iraq War.“
“Retired Colonel Wright served for 26 years in Army and the Army
Reserves and served 15 years in the Diplomatic Corp. She received the
State Department’s Award for Heroism as Charge d’Affaires during the
evacuation of Sierra Leone in 1997. She resigned from her post as
Deputy Chief of Mission at the US Embassy in 2003 due to her
opposition to the war on Iraq. “
This is a distressing and horrifying thesis being put forth here. But it seems to fit. It makes sense of what’s been happening. It would explain rove’s comment that he had “THE numbers.”
Distressing. And horrifying.
Actually, the entire purpose of the wurlitzer is to remind drunk Andrea Mitchell what to say when she goes on the teevee. Without constant, wall-to-wall reminders on all channels 24/7, Andrea wouldn’t have a clue what to say.
Can you dislike the DLC, and yet support HRC for prez? Hillary is a member of the DLC Leadership Team.
Hmmm. @ 35
Holy F’ing Shizolla!!!
Fasten your seatbelts!!!!
LS @ 45
Dayam, the natives are getting restless…!!! 8-(
LS @ 45
LS, you are almost an oracle
Toby Wollin @ 18
Which totally makes me question Gore’s judgement.
LS @ 45
Hiya Eli!!!!
I always thought people had to be smart to go to congress. But I guess if Bush can go to the White house, maybe I was wrong.
I think it’s great that protest is really happening now. We need lots of that and especially from the “non hippy” types like Wright and McGovern.
It’s well past time for direct action. These pricks in the beltway don’t get it.
Stop the war NOW.. not in 5 years after another 5,000 soldiers are killed.
Eli @ 32
I agree, unfortunately those who wield the power in DC continue to ignore what the American people want. So what do we do? We can vote the ones out who refuse to uphold the oath they took to protect and defend the Constitution, but that takes years and with no guarantee of success. We can write, call,and email representatives, but since they don’t really seem too concerned about what the people want I don’t know how effective this is. We can take to the streets, but the vast majority of people have got all they can handle just trying to keep everything together, working, paying the bills and trying to figure out how to pay for ever-increasing necessities. And, as seen in an earlier post today, merely trying to enter a room to watch a hearing can get you thrown to the ground, gang-tackled and arrested.
I’ve watched 2 days of hearings and to say I am feeling demoralized is putting it mildly.
GeorgeSimian @ 31
Yes, that sounds right. It’s as if our expectations have dropped so low the fact that most Americans agree that this war needs to end now seems an overwhelming victory in our domestic political war.
Sort of o/t, but on the topic of lowered expectations?: Ted Koppel on NPR tonight pointed out that the supposed drawing down of troops is something of a scam. Without a draft or (further) cutting corners on leave time, there has to be a drawdown of, well, about 30,000 troops between now and the spring. In other words we have run out of soldiers.
I had a run-in with the campus Rudy supporters, who had set up a tasteless pro-Rudy “9/11 Memorial” on the quad. They have no sense of shame. I went up to them and said, “On this day, of all days, could you have a little respect and not exploit the 9/11 dead? Rudy doesn’t own 9/11. It’s not yours. You should be ashamed.” One of them said–this is a quote– “But everybody exploits 9/11 for political gain!” I looked around. “Really? Where’s everybody else? Nobody else is giving at campaign literature at a memorial.”
They were totally unprepared to defend Rudy’s record as mayor–my friend knew a lot about that and really let them have it. They weren’t prepared to defend Rudy’s serial adultery, either. They finally sheepishly admitted that impeaching Clinton for his adultery and whatnot was wrong.
They seemed really flummoxed that some people thought Rudy did not, in fact, own 9/11. All they knew about him was basically some distorted media BS.
SnarKassandra @ 54
I an earlier draft, I tied that in with having a president who was as smart and perceptive as a sea snail, and suggested that maybe our entire government is simply devolving before our eyes…
Toby Wollin @ 53
Somehow, my comment got lost – It is my understanding that these guys work for the Senate. I’d like to know WHO gave them instructions to behave in this way – this is unacceptable.
LS @ 45
One thing about this that absolutely puzzles me is that the CP officers are conducting all these illegal arrests under complete video tape scrutiny. Have they any idea how all this looks in the footage that is nearly instantly available to everyone in this country [with a reasonably functional computer]?
From Lahoma and me to our party, the Democratic Party:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh…
Sucks air out of your lungs….holy wee, wee…they are using this in Afghanistan…never told the Parliament – Beware Oathtakers:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0823.html
Hmmm. @ 35
Oy. Didn’t he get a new blog since Ravings of a Rational Mind? I didn’t bookmark it…
Oklahoma and Eli
Since when has mediocrity NOT been fine with the msd’s. The majority of them appear hard-pressed of late to even rise to THAT level of excellence. I should appreciate someone exceptional and I’m certain you both agree.
Which raises the question you’ve already alluded to, Oklahoma: How may the democrats expect to win the hearts and minds of those desperate for change when the same old same old is the ‘best’ mantra they can offer? How viable, really, is such a party? They have betrayed their heritage and their ‘base.’ How may they claim to represent a worthwhile or attractive future? How do they expect to win?
parsley @ 57
The miracle here is that the reporting is reasonably accurate and not the usual MSM la-la land pablum.
Progress…
I need to ask an off topic help. We get channel one at school and it isn’t NBC or CNN but just news. But I think maybe there’s some bias on it. How do I find out who owns it?
Enjoy the moment.
Yankees winning, Red Sox losing.
cleter @ 58
Was it The Onion that said that Rudy was running for “President Of 9/11″?
You refer to ED. I assume this means elitile dysfunction.
peanutbutter @ 61
They must have received reassurance from someone, like Homeland Security, that they could proceed…stop all protest.
Nazis.
SnarKassandra @ 67
The rough steps I would take (using google for starters) is to first find out the actual name of your broadcasting company, by matching on your area and station (or cable)? Once you have the name of the company, you can start tracking down information about the company itself: see where it’s headquartered, check for information about its board of directors if it has any. Once names start coming up, try checking their names against political donor lists, for example. You might also get lucky; once you’ve got the name of the company (or the company behind it) soemone may have already researched them and laid it out…
raven @ 10
I agree! Over the side with him! On three, one…
David W. Bartoo @ 65
I (and I bet OKK as well) am *desperate* for some excellence and passion from the Democrats, *especially* the presidential candidates. Unfortunately, I don’t really see it from any of them, although Dodd and Richardson maybe come closest for me.
I would be *very* happy with Gore, but he clearly wants no part of it.
Eli @ 59
Snarkassadra might be too smart for Congress or the White House. She would have hard time with the BS poured around.
nonplussed @ 73
Weight him down with Baird.
cleter @ 58
It’s really important to challenge the Rudiography that’s out beyond the Hudson. Jonathan Alter spoke about it on Countdown tonite as well; the GOP & people in the rest of the country really admire Rudi for his 911, but New Yorkers all seem to prefer someone else for President. And Alter covered Rudi’s first visit to Ground Zero after the attacks, contributing to the Rudiography. It’s pretty clear he regrets having done so.
Thanks for what you and your friend did. Where was this?
Hugh @ 70
I figured it worked well both ways.
Like Eli @ 42 said
The (D) Leadership, they are so afraid of the Meanies of the RWNM?!?!
maybe this is just another fig leaf to conceal the fact that most of the Washington (D) team is working with their corporate paymasters and the (R)’s and the neocons to consolidate an authoritarian state at constant war.
Hello! that’s what they are doing. Impeachment in the House needed a simple majority, it needed to be attempted. But they zorched it by retroactively legalizing the Preznits impeachable conduct.
They all voted in support of the next insane, criminal war against Iran, what more does anyone need to see?
Various causalities are speculated upon, basically because they are “more comforting to
Tomasky(D) identified Liberals than the truth of Democrats’ willful complicity in all aspects of the American imperium.”paraphrasing IOZ at http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/
TeddySanFran-
University of Florida
I lived through Rudi hell and was hauled off to jail at a Diallo protest for just being there. It’s personal with me.
And he tried to shut down the Brooklyn Museum because of an art exhibit. What a boar.
TheraP @ 46
No. “THE numbers” had to do with caging lists, partisan prosecutions of Dems and voter registration drives, fixing electronic voting machines and rousing the base with specters of burning bibles and forced same-sex marriages (probably interracial, too).
Evil, and extremely audacious, but not a frickin’ genius. Just obsessed.
There’s a good website for channel one but it doesn’t actually say who they are. How do I find out if it is a repub puppet?
I just watched the Reverend getting his leg broken again, because I was showing it to Mr. LS. Now, I am bouncing off every wall in my house. And, Katrina!!! People dying in front of our eyes.
I hope the spell works.
GordonM @ 82
You can get a lot done if you don’t have a conscience. None of it good, though.
Hugh @ 70
I was thinking elite denial.. Either way, same results..)
Eli @ 15
Any bets Steny Hoyer would think he’s next in line? Or Rahm? I’ll keep Pelosi in favor of those two, thank you very much!
parsley @ 57
It was really irritating to hear Petraeus amke this sound like this was a decision that he had some control over but it was infuriating (OK, as infuriated as I get with cable news realizing it isn’t real news) to hear MSNBC heads keep repeating this meme even after having been corrected by Senators and their own reporters.
Ann in AZ @ 87
Kucinich should be Speaker, and fast, NOW.
cleter @ 80
That’s a very important place to pierce the Rudiography — he expects the bounce from the Florida primary to take him into a Super Tuesday Sweep on 2/5.
Big Mitch, the Sox just tied it up.
I’m going with Kucinich. I don’t care what anybody thinks. He’s the only one with any cojones in Congress, and the only one that I agree with. So there!!!
OK. Anyone ever hear about these people?
* Kathy Goodman
Executive Vice President of Education Services
* Kristy Schantz
Executive Producer
John S. and James L. Knight Foundation
Participant Productions
Team SAFE-T
…It is the job of a good lawyer to say “yes.” It is as much the job of a good lawyer to say “no.” “No” is much, much harder. “No” must be spoken into a storm of crisis, with loud voices all around, with lives hanging in the balance. “No” is often the undoing of a career. And often, “no” must be spoken in competition with the voices of other lawyers who do not have the courage to echo it.
Comey, May ‘05 to members of the NSA… Prophetic…!!!
cleter @ 58
GOOD FOR YOU, CLETER!
LS @ 92
I like him too!
Watching people lie, or being pressured to lie, or lie by implication or omission, in front of Congress raises my blood pressure. And, I got a day job, so most of my info so far is reading what has made it into print.
Just exactly why the fuss about Petraeus’ remark about not knowing whether the war in Iraq will make the US ’safer’? I think he gave the right answer for a military commander. If it were not for the fact that the totally 100% political slimebags of Cheney-bush are hiding behind anyone with any credibility they can grab to shove up to the microphone, it wouldn’t be such a big deal that a general made a sensible answer.
From what I have seen of Petraeus’ testimoney, I think it is good news in a way. I don’t know if he is a wingnut, or has political ambitions, or what. But, he has been honest enough to give the side of truth some good material to work with. Any discussion that respects some time spent on fact based material and good faith disccussion is a positive development, because it will give that kind of grubby non-elite discourse some credibility.
It probably will not do much to change the media stars’ pre-written scripts. But will give any Democrat or reality based GOPer an opening to bring up stuff like, you know, facts and logic.
For some reason seems like the military people that the administration is willing to show to the public are the types who will keep a toe or two in the reality based world. Or at least cough when the bunco artists like Lieberman go completely insane or completely mendacious. So, whatever Petraeus is, or what he is trying to do, I think in long run it is better to have Congress talking with him than pure bunco artists that the administration sends out.
Now if only the Dems would get aggresive in dealing with the Party Organ and its flunkies on TV and radio, that would make a big difference.
SnarKassandra @ 83
A wikipedia article is always a good starting point.
Eli @ 78
Actually I think that’s when it doesn’t work at least one of the ways.
SnarKassandra @ 96
Have you heard his wife speak??? She’s really something.
Hugh @ 99
if occupation lasts longer than four years, consult your doctor.
SnarKassandra @ 83
sourcewatch
SnarKassandra @ 93
http://www.obligation.org/article.php?recordID=737
In this, they say that Channel One is owned by Primedia.
Where has civilization gone?
Oh murderers of innocents
oh loud ego-shouts of self
oh greed pig in the words of religion
oh false faced ego phonies
oh murderers in the name of fear
oh hate mongers, perverters of the heart
oh sorrow bringers of a destroyed iraq
liars and mongers, peddlers of untruth
lightness demons of a shrouded nothing
who has wrought madness and drivel
upon the fragrant light and human heart
who speak vomitous lies and hide the darkness
that bloats their soon falsed falseness down
the addicts cavernous lair of liar
oh folly and madness
uncessary war and destruction
gloomy visions of a Godless false religion
misers of unlove’s never bright heart
oh destroyers of humanity and oneness
oh unloving misery bringers of NOT ONE HEART
oh insane murderers of innocent children
starving for love and food, while oil barons urinate in gold sinks
oh artless, heartless, subhuman orcs of no humanity
us-them, hate-kill, false visions and ego ego ego ego ego ego bitter blabber
may wisdom yet turn your heart from coal black depths
to a light sublime
and love touch your pitiful wretched lostness
awakening the glimmer of sanity
from your snail shell of illusions
peace peace peace
love love love
bliss bliss bliss
the never absent reality
the never missing truth
the heart is shouting
always
and aloud
LS @ 92
I stand with you!
If Kucinich ‘can’t’ be Prez, he DEFINITELY should be Speaker.
punaise @ 101
You’re thinking of Die-agra.
I buy part of the argument that says, “you broke it, so you have to fix it.” We attacked another nation that was no threat to us, and the electricity is not even back to where it was 5 years on.
I also believe that those who can access power will, and the longer we sit around with our thumb on the scales, the longer people get killed before the balance of forces is reached.
Since we do not know who will speak for America in 2009, and Bush has no power to do anything but kick the can, we are all,Americans and Iraqis, caught in suspended animation. Frozen in amber. Spending billions of dollars. Spending thousands of lives, Iraqi and American . I list the Iraqis first, since it’s their country that has been attacked by a feckless super power, and many Americans seem not to care how many are raped and slaughtered.
One more Bush clusterfuck……..eh!
wesgpc @ 97
Part of why it was a big deal was because GOP Senator John Warner of Virginia, who just announced his retirement and is thus “liberated” from political considerations, asked the question, got a fudged answer, and asked it again.
I’m sure if a Democrat had done that it would have been siezed on as badgering the brave general, disrespecting the troops, and hating America.
Also, Warner is thought to have many lines of communication with the Pentagon and perhaps speak for them, like Murtha. So perhaps this kabuki was a way for Petraeus to stay in the good graces of Fallon, Pace, and other superior officers who are thought not to favor continuing the SURGE.
ymmv
GordonM @ 98
Here’s a good sentence from that article:
Primedia employed disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff and associate Tony Rudy from 1999 through 2003, to lobby for Channel One
Toby Wollin @ 103
Primedia sold it to Alloy Media and Marketing earlier this year.
From http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..94853/620:
-start of quote-
What Really Happened Sept. 6th in Eastern Syria?
by FMArouet
Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 05:40:07 PM PDT
From a virtual news blackout on the Bush-Putin summit session in Sydney on September 7th, to a series of puzzling stories about an Israeli air operation in eastern Syria on September 6th, to some odd reports on U.S. and Israeli casualties in the past few days, we need to ask if any of these events are connected.
Below the break I’ll list the incidents (including links), offer some speculation, and ask for refutation or confirmation.
FMArouet’s diary :: ::
Are there connections among these five events which have occurred in the past few days?
(1) In the early hours of Thursday, September 6th, Israeli jets conducted some sort of military strike in eastern Syria.
(2) On Friday, September 7th, President Bush and Russian President Putin held talks at a Sydney hotel on the margins of the APEC summit. They spoke for one hour, allegedly about U.S. plans for a missile defense in Europe. What else did they discuss? Putin was described in this press report as “visibly grim” after the meeting. There was virtually no other reporting on this bilateral summit session.
(3) On that same day, September 7th, the Russian Novosti press agency quoted U.S. writers in an article mocking Bush and in a second article heaping scorn on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Novosti tends to be a rather colorless outlet of staid Russian official spin, so these two pieces seemed unusual and even odd, almost like some Soviet-era between-the-lines signal.
(4) On Monday, September 10th, several news services reported that seven U.S. soldiers were killed and eleven injured in a single “traffic accident” in western Baghdad. Perhaps I am mistaken, but do not the announcements of U.S. casualties in Baghdad tend to be made a day or so after they occur, thereby giving time for notification of the families? Did these casualties really occur on Monday, or did they occur in Syria in the early morning hours of Thursday?
(5) On Tuesday, September 11th, the Israeli Defense Forces reported that sixty-nine Israeli soldiers at the Zikkim training base near Gaza had been wounded in a rocket attack.
Now perhaps there are no connections at all among these events, but when there is a virtual news blackout on what should be an event of some significance, i.e., the Bush-Putin summit, I hear a dog that should have barked, but did not. What really happened?
Here follows some pure speculation. Can anyone out there substantiate or refute it?
Might Israeli and U.S. special forces have undertaken a major ground operation on the evening of September 5th/6th in eastern Syria? Could they have been taking out Syrian radars or communications facilities, and not the “weapons shipments from Iran” as alleged in the press reporting on the Israeli air operation? Might the operation have gone badly after the Syrians discovered it and inflicted heavy casualties on the intruders? Might the Israeli air operation have been launched to suppress the Syrian reaction and help extricate the killed and wounded? Was the operation initially intended by the Bush/Cheney White House to be a perfectly timed poke in Putin’s eye to convince him that it would be pointless to provide intelligence or material support to Syria in any imminent conflict in the area? Might Putin have read the riot act to Bush in Sydney on September 7th to complain about the incident? And might the press reporting we see about a “traffic accident” in western Baghdad resulting in 18 U.S. casualties and a rocket attack at Israel’s Zikkim base resulting in 69 IDF casualties simply be cover stories to obfuscate the actual cause of the casualties, i.e., a provocative but bungled operation in Syria?
Beats me. But inquiring minds want to know. Can anyone shed any light? No tinfoil hats, please. Just facts.
-end of quote-
More here: http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/
And here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6989961.stm
Hmmm.
It IS part of NBC now, right?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
Excellent, OKK, love Willie and Nora.
Goodnight…
from kiddo and me.
lahoma.
we did break it but solders and armies and battles and bombs are not fixing what we broke.
We need to PAY for what we broke and get out of the place and let THEM fix it their own way.
Toby Wollin @ 109
SO that means I am probably right about bias? Even if now it is partner with NBC just like KO?
Eli @ 106
Sigh, Alice.
TeddySanFran @ 47
Doesn’t matter; she’d just make shit up like she always does.
TeddySanFran @ 90
Well, they need to get their sh*t together. Sheepishly admitting that he was less moral than Bill Clinton is going to get them exactly nowhere in the south. If those half-wits go door to door for him, it ain’t gonna help him.
LS @ 89
Now, that I could easily accept.
LS @ 63
Sounds like a weapon of mass destruction to me. Why do we-British included- get to decide which weapons are fair to use for mass destruction? How in the hell is this different than other weapons of mass destruction????
David W. Bartoo @ 105
This is for Snarkassandra too. Go to Youtube. Go to Elizabeth Kucinich. It will do you heart good.
I want Peace on Earth. I’m tired of this sh**t.
Good nite, Lahoma
VERY nice to hear from you!
Good nite Oklahoma, as well. It is ALWAYS a pleasure to hear from you.
Loo Hoo. @ 121
It is not.
Loo Hoo. @ 121
Cause we’re Murikin’s, and the Decider said so! Gotta love the hypocracy, though. Imagine if this weapon was developed by North Korea. Oh, the pearl clutching!
Did anyone hear anything about the Reid/Pelosi presser today?
LS @ 124
It’s *American*.
My God! George Bush will withdraw 30,000 troops by next year!
It must be news because Yahoo says so!
Hooray!
Fucking pathetic.
-GSD
juslin @ 36
I replied to your Wolf comment downstairs, but it didn’t stay wtf posted.
FWIW I agree with you about Wolf.
Last of the token Republican males hereabouts.
SnarKassandra @ 115
It sounds like they started out kind of idealistic. Then they lost lots of money, so they hooked up with profit-oriented companies. That tends to carry with it a certain bias, but it kind of depends on how much editorial control is left to the show and how much is dictated from on high.
(Personally, I think showing ads to a captive audience is way beyond the pale but I’m a DFH.)
TeddySanFran @ 126
I half heard it,
I’m still wearing my socks.
tw3k @ 102
THat’s outdated, Primedia sold it to Alloy Media and Marketing.
Barry @ 107
I believe we, as a nation, are morally compelled to humbly help rebuild Iraq.
No bases, no control of oil. Simple humanitarian humility. No guns – just our hands, our hearts, our money our time and our souls. That MIGHT redeem our future.
TeddySanFran @ 126
I saw it. Pelosi looked really pissed but the sound was really bad it was for me to hear what they said. :/
GordonM @ 129
Especially since, according to the sourcewatch article, a study found that the kids retained the ad info but not the news content. Like they don’t get enough crap ads thrown at them every day, they have to watch it at school too?
GordonM @ 129
My cousin , who does not like to listen to liberal radio or read blogs too much, believes all the stuff he hears on channel one. So do some of my friends. But some of it is the same stuff that y’all and Glenn Greenwald and Rachel Maddow show isn’t true. But channel one never does a retraction.
peanutbutter @ 131
True, who wants to update it :D
Loo Hoo. @ 121
We’ve been doing this since our first entrance into Afghanistan. Kill everybody in a whole set of connecting caves with one shot. News reports all portrayed it as greatest thing since sliced bread.
LS @ 92
There was a mock debate in San Diego on Saturday. Jeeni Cricenzo (who had the nerve to run against Issa) spoke on behalf of Kucinich. She was so passionate, and I loved what she had to say. Clinton won the straw poll.
GordonM @ 130
I looked at the wiki article and the name I was trying to think of was the founder Chris Whittle. IIRC, the entire premise of Channel One News caught a lot of flack when it was first founded just because of the premise of showing ads to kids who had no choice in the matter but were a captive audience
From TPM :
And he knows Arabic, too, which I find very suspicious.
Let the Swiftboating begin.
GordonM @ 138
Killing people is AWESOME!!! Go, team!
GordonM @ 139
and where would we be without sliced bread!?
madmommy @ 136
Agreed. I think this C1N is problematic, but not necessarily from a political angle. Looks like they’ve simply figured out how to make money off other peoples’ children without necessarily benefiting the children.’
Another aspect that occured to me while I was a’googlin’ was that her own school might be filtering some of the incoming material which could introduce bias at that level. It could even be as simple as the teacher of a class deciding to have the students see this show — but not that one, where the bias of the teacher comes out. But that’s also something that happens per teacher regardless of what the material or media that teacher elects to use.
So in the end, I guess it’s a qualified maybe :*)
Good post, Eli!
What I want to know is, why doesn’t the Progressive Caucus have a very visible and PR-oriented spokesperson? The progressive caucus is the largest caucus in the party– and maybe that’s why it doesn’t Speak– maybe its too diverse, with too many Blue Dogs and Bush puppies.
Barbara Boxer would make a good spokesperson. I know she gets on the toobz, but not as a spokesperson for the progressive caucus, but the Congressional Progressive Caucus is an organization of Representatives, not senators. The co-chairs are
* Barbara Lee (California), and
* Lynn Woolsey (California).
Lee is certainly a top progressive in terms of votes, but can you remember the last time she was on the toobz as a spokesperson for the CPC?
Or does Nancy Pelosi have a choke hold on her collar? Does the CPC, like, ever get together and vote on issues?
Ah, I see that Pelosi used to be a member, but “left” when she was elected Speaker. Her voting record is moderately progressive, according to Progressive Punch, but as party leader she behaves badly, IMHO.
Let’s see:
PP Rating Leader
93.58 Pelosi, Nancy
89.71 Emanuel, Rahm
84.07 Hoyer, Steny H.
69.09 Murtha, John P.
—————————————
82.28 Reid, Harry
Bob in HI
Alloy’s CEO is Matthew Diamond. He worked in the financial division of NBC’s parent company General Electric before founding Alloy. This could explain how he was able to connect with NBC to provide original program.
Alloy’s COO and President is James K. Johnson. He too used to work for GE.
Elliott @ 142
We’d get a knife and cut it ourselves? Like when we use a bread machine?
The Dem. leadership seems hell bent on pursuing a centrist position. They simply want to re-live the 90’s whose time has come and gone. Those policies and the old style of governing will not cut it in the 21st century. We have entered a world where globalization is on the rise and the next president should be fully equipped and ready to move this country along using a fresh and modern approach. Progressives understands this, but unfortunatley, the leadership who has failed to recongize that the challenges of today’s world is far different from those of the 90’s, sees progressives as nuisances and at every opportunity it gets pushes them aside,
To get the leadership’s attention, this may well be the time especially since there seems to a hunger in the country for a leader with new ideas, and a strong sense of direction, to run a progressive candidate as an independent for president.
The leadership figures that progressives will come home during the general elections and work hard as usual to elect the party’s nominee….I won’t be falling for that, my vote means something to me.
I will not allow myself to be fooled by their false promises of 2006.
Loo Hoo. @ 140
ya know Loo Hoo, I just don’t get that. I know no one who’s interested in Hillary. go figure
Eli @ 141
Yeah – I’ve seen this whole thing before. The deja vue is overpowering. Oh yeah – TEAM AMERICA!!
Hugh @ 145
So it is just generic corporate media like everything else, and with even more fluff than the evening news on TV.
TeddySanFran @ 126
Yeah…they handed Bush a “cookie”….you can leave as many troops as are “needed” to train Iraqi troops… The Iraqis (on the take) are singing…let it rain….Mo’ Money…padding their pockets…old story…Hey, that is our money!!! This is bad, this was planned (PNAC), and they are doing it…and we go…wee, wee, wee…all the way home…..I’m sick of it, sick of it, I tell you! Conspiracy theory….wee, wee, wee, all the way home….Jeez…sigh.
Well, I was trying to finish reading thru all the comments before I comment on this, but by the time I finish there’ll probly be another post up. So here goes.
I watched Abrams show briefly after Hardball, and Pat Buchanan was there. They were discussing why the Dems don’t seem to be able to make a difference even though they have about 60% of the people with them. The question came up why didn’t they just defund the war. Buchanan says that they’re afraid of the consequences. Abrams thinks they’re afraid of the consequences politically because the Repugs would slam them, but they’re not afraid of what would happen in Iraq. Pat muttered no they are afraid of what would happen in Iraq.
I initially thought Abrams was right, but then I reconsidered. Dems are afraid that if things explode as soon as our soldiers are gone, or if anything untoward happens (soldiers have been known to be routed while they withdraw, which was pretty much what happened in Iraq, I think), they will be hit with it being their fault. If they’re gonna take the blame, I think they want the name and position first. So in the meantime, our boys are dying and so are Iraqis, regardless of what we all think. What a revolting situation to be in.
This is a link to a page of Alloy news releases:
http://www.alloymarketing.com/…..index.html
SnarKassandra @ 146
It’s just that kind of outside the box thinking that will take you far in life!
SnarKassandra @ 148
!!
peanutbutter @ 144
I don’t know about “idealistic.” I think the founder, Chris Whittle, was for privatizing a lot of public school functions. He supported Lamar Alexander, I think. He’s not a progressive.
This is based on my fuzzy memory.
David W. Bartoo @ 134
Amen. And yes I know it’s a dream, but that’s how things start.
Ann in AZ @ 152
yep – they are screwed if they do and screwed if they don’t. No matter what they do, the GOP will say they are “soft on terror” or some such garbage. That’s the magic wand, folks – “soft of terror”. Whenever I email my congress-folks, I always end with “Do Not Be Afraid — we’d rather you were strong on the Constitution and doing the right thing.”
SnarKassandra @ 150
That sounds like an excellent summary.
Laura Doty @ 159
Isn’t it, tho!
Ann in AZ @ 153
I said this earlier today but I think Buchanan is correct. My belief is that if the Dems sent up and kept sending up funding bills without money for the occupation, the Chimpenfuhrer would just allow all the money for the troops to dry up and give them nothing. Anyone with a rational brain would know he would be the person to blame but I think the man is so far over the edge that he would do it and try to blame the dems for everything and not supporting the troops. Psychotic but there ya go.
link
cleter @ 157
We share the same fuzzy memories then…
why are the dems so scared?
Alecia @ 148
Centrism *really* doesn’t cut it when you have hard-right extremists taking over and politicizing every facet of the government, trashing the Constitution, and ensnaring us in a disastrous, life-and-resource-draining war.
This shit needs to be stopped and rolled back *fast*, and “centrists” (I don’t think they’re really centrists, but that’s their chosen label) are just too inclined to compromise and capitulate with the people who are running the country into the ground.
Oh, jeez…. I just saw this post. This whole idea is so profoundly depressing that I’m just going to have to totter off to bed and pull the covers over my head… I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, though, given that I read the NYT every day…
Maybe I’ll take a cocktail to bed with me……
Obama and Clinton demonstrated again today why they are doubly responsible for their unseemly caution on the topic of Iraq: they’re both very smart and competent. They are a couple of the people in Congress who have the ability to get to the heart of the matter, and clearly and pointedly explain it to the people, but they won’t.
Clinton’s summation of the Petraeus report says it all: “It takes a willing suspension of disbelief” to buy what he is selling, she said. Exactly. So? What next, Senator?
Obama too, made an extremely coherent, cogent summary of the situation that provided context and perspective. Both of them were speaking only loosely from notes. And yet neither of them attempted to pin down the witnesses to any significant degree…
I was particularly appalled when Petraeus, in responding to Clinton, said – in relation to the policy driving his mission in Iraq: “This is a policy from one end of Pennsylvania Avenue with advice and consent and resources from the other end.” !! This “policy” is no White House-to-Senate NOMINATION, General. This is supposed to be WAR – declared (or authorized) ONLY by Congress under our Constitution and being conducted pursuant to a policy objective decided upon EQUALLY by Congress and the Executive Branch – if not entirely decided upon by Congress (that is, we the people). Petraeus effectively transformed our Constitution into the very form of government it was written to prevent, and Senator Clinton just sat there silently, as he said this to her face…
We do seem to have lost our Legislative Branch of government. These preening peacocks in Congress are pathetic. Even Jim Webb had to repeat his points (he’s on both committees), despite limited time, to build himself (and his son) up, and Claire McCaskill seemed glib and shallow to me. They seem to think it’s all about mindless nationalism (which they call “patriotism”), and the few patriots who believe in our Constitution because they value the liberties it was intended to preserve, are lost in the shuffle and the din.
In this case, as I elaborated at length in Siun’s earlier ‘Pretending You’ll End the War’ thread today, inaction on Iraq is a choice of policy. Iraq is changing every day into a different, and fragmented state, because the Congress has not chosen any other (public) objective and voted to enforce it [Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 - gone the way of their subpoena power…voluntarily relinquished].
Congress is letting America and Iraq drift into whatever shoals they run into, and then pointing their fingers to say “it’s all Bush’s fault.” Believe me, Congress, there’s way more than enough blame to go around for the state of our nation. You don’t get a pass. Bush has plenty of agenda he’s happy to pursue if left unmolested, thanks to Iraq’s $20 TRILLION dollars of oil wealth. He’s a greedy, dishonest corporate raider – hiding behind the prestige of the office of the presidency, and Members of Congress keep bowing down to that prestige as they did to Petraeus and his nine rows of medals today. The ugly character hiding beneath the veneer of power is considered unworthy of mention or even of private acknowledgment by the power worshipers of Washington. [Vic Snyder of Arkansas - oh man… Poor Arkansas, between Snyder and Pryor and Lincoln, do they have anyone principled speaking for them at all?]
Even Joe Sestak, for crying out loud, sent out a long letter to a constituent (seen at afterdowningstreet.org) – saying all the right things about our Constitution, about democracy, etc., etc. And then tried to excuse his lack of support for opening an impeachment inquiry by claiming that impeachment would unacceptably sully the office of the presidency, never mind the current occupant!! Is that the latest consultant-driven advice heeded by the leadership of the Democratic Party? Reining in a de facto King might diminish and take the luster off a Clinton or Obama presidency and therefore must not be pursued?? Constitutional ignorance and indifference, writ large.
P.S. I should say, some Democrats really did their jobs and excelled over the last two days. Those I noticed and very much appreciated: Rep. Brad Sherman of CA (wow), Rep. Gary Ackerman of NY (very sharp), Rep. Abercrombie of Hawaii (truth-teller), and I’m sure some others who have blended into the whole. I sure wish Sherman or Ackerman were the ones out representing the party in the media…
P.P.S. Teddy – I saw a portion of that press conference today – where a loud reporter asked Pelosi and Reid why they won’t be considered “failures” next year if nothing (troop-level-wise) has changed in Iraq from 2006’s election to 2008’s…(this after some back and forth with Pelosi and Reid acting like they are powerless to oppose “Bush’s war”). Pelosi was not amused – and tried to call out the question as biased, but I thought the reporter was simply echoing the sentiment of the country, really, and I was very glad he confronted them with that accusation, and didn’t withdraw it. Reid then tried to ‘defend’ Pelosi while she protested that she didn’t need defending, by starting to enumerate a laundry list of great ’successes’ of this Congress…. And so it went.
[Scheduling note: The Senate adjourns on Wednesday at about 1 p.m. for the week (Rosh Hashanah - the Jewish New Year - is celebrated Wednesday and Thursday, and the House too is basically done for the week). When the Senate returns on Monday, it will apparently be taking up the FY 2008 Defense Authorization and/or Defense Appropriations Bills.]
SnarKassandra @ 165
You want the short answer, or the long answer?
Elliott @ 131
I always hoot when I hear that expression (”knocked my socks off”) used in mainstream media because it originated in porn, where the men always wore socks. Kinda like “sucks” and “scumbag” have migrated into common parlance without any thought of what they mean. You hear the most dignified Very. Serious. People. say it.
Eli @ 17
How quaint – do you really believe that Dubya ever worked for us? He has always acted the part of an annointed American prince, member of a ruling family, hater of Democracy.
Toby Wollin @ 159
Yeah, I’m not so much worried about “soft on terror” as I am worried about “soft on Republicans”.
I think this is privatizing like the news stuff. I have a friend who is pregnant and she had a class with the nurse today. And the books and stuff about how to take care of a baby and what happens when the baby is growing inside of you were all from Pampers. And every single page has Pampers on the top.
Ann in AZ @ 152
TPM has had some posts (here’s one) on a poll of Iraqis. The gist of it is that the Sunnis overwhelmingly want a united Iraq (not a loose federation). Since they’re out of power right now, that’s a good indication that they have every intention of regaining power (maybe not absolute, but they’re not going to be shut out). Shia seem to feel likewise (they’re in power, not going to lose it, and want the whole banana).
So yes, there will be fighting. Lots of it. With the key point being – whether or not we’re in the way.
Honest George @ 171
I don’t believe that he’s ever for a second *thought* that he works for us, but that’s certainly how the system is *supposed* to work.
cleter @ 168
You have a medium one?
SnarKassandra @ 164
I wish I knew. Maybe being marginalized for so long, some sort of Stockholm Syndrome. Or maybe just the simple lack of a cohesive voice for the party. The GOP has mastered the lock-step message delivery to great effect. The dems seem only able to react instead of act, and it always seems to be too little, too late.
Laura Doty @ 158
I intuitively believe that sizable number of Americans would welcome and happily share in bringing to life this dream – there remains much goodness and decency here, of that I am certain.
dakine01 @ 162
Yes. Here’s the G’darn bill, don’t like it, veto it…Here’s the G’darn bill with changes, don’t like it, veto it…Here’s the G’darn bill…don’t like it???? Veto it. You aren’t the Decider, you are the Vetoer, the Obstructer, the Dictator, the Patsy. W. You epitomize Failure.. You are the Failurerer.
David W. Bartoo @ 179
You and me both, friend. I think it’s saying this out loud that helps it grow, and I’m glad you spoke up tonight.
TeddySanFran @ 171
well, rest assured, the most dignified Very. Serious. People. — ain’t me!!
SnarKassandra @ 151
This is from its web page:
http://www.alloymarketing.com/aboutus.html
It targets specialized media markets, one of those is teens. And yes, it uses news prepared for it by NBC so its news is definitely corporate media related.
What are these? proprietary partnerships
SnarKassandra @ 172
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. A lot of schools are so strapped that they grab onto all sorts of commercially-produced stuff as educational tools. Or, they sign on to getting Channel One for the revenue flow, just like they do when they sign on with Coke or Pepsi to give them exclusive rights to put soda machines in the lunch room.
SnarKassandra @ 172
Wait till she delivers and gets a boatload of stuff from formula companies. Even though I nursed my kids I came home with a pile of coupons, samples, diaper bags and other assorted goodies. Marketing is everywhere.
cleter @ 158
Well for the AMM company, at least, the public sponsor list includes among similar such organizations, Planned Parenthood. So I don’t think it’s impossible that it started off with good intentions.
Looked up Chris Whittle. Sounds like a charming man.
Snarkassandra, you are a “target audience.” I guess you can start to guess what you are being “targeted” for.
GordonM @ 174
Do we want to be in or out of the handbasket?
SnarKassandra @ 174
Cassie, the way to deal with the incessant ads is to take the free stuff and then make intelligent informed decisions about what to do with your money. We got all the pampers stuff for the grandbaby for free, tried the different kinds of free sample diapers, then bought Huggies. They work better.
This argument is framed in baby stuff, but larger than the original context. Use what’s free, examine everything, put your money into the best spot you can determine.
SnarKassandra @ 174
BINGO!
Toby Wollin @ 183
They took all soda stuff out when I was in middle school. Just powerade and water and juice in the machines now.
Final word on Channel One. It was founded by Whittle who sold it to Primedia. Primedia lost a ton of money on it and dumped it. Alloy picked it up in April and hoped to turn it around with their NBC deal. Not being a teen, I have never seen its content and can’t judge it.
SnarKassandra @ 192
Yeah, they just keep moving on to something else.
Russia is going green with their bombs.
An enviro-friendly nuclear equivalent.
-GSD
madmommy @ 176
Cassie – when you have been placed for so long in the position of the group who has to react to the other groups’ DEFINING the message and the rules of the game (like, if you disagree with the President on Iraq, you are supporting Al Queda…), then you are constantly off balance and trying to protect yourself. You spend too much energy trying to survive in that environment. This is Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid’s problem at the moment. They only know how to keep their heads down, grab a few crumbs from the floor occasionally and try not to get kicked. They don’t know how to really get out there and lead – that requires exposing themselves and that takes courage.
GSD @ 195
oh Joy!
SnarKassandra @ 182
Well, a partnership is a contract. And, in this case, proprietary means “you can’t have any – neener neener neener!”
peanutbutter @ 192
Is that why the football stadiums are named after companies instead of teams?
SnarKassandra @ 190
Do they still classify ketchup as a vegetable? Thank you, Ronnie Raygun.
Toby Wollin @ 194
They should go to counseling like we did after my mom got arrested. And learn how to be balanced.
Naming rights for stadiums and theaters and such, yes, Miss, that is all about the big bucks. Biggest donor gets their name on it.
SnarKassandra @ 197
Big money there. But not Lambeau Field. Coincidentally, the only NFL team owned by the city in which it resides, not a single person or group like all the other teams. And, the league has fixed it so there will not be another city that can own their team. Only Green Bay Wisconsin.
Eli @ 165
And why even play with the media. Let action and policy speak.
madmommy @ 178
NSA wiretaps of them and their loved ones, directly routed to Rove and Cheney.
SnarKassandra @ 199
Yes. I remember when that started in the 80’s and I’ve absolutely loathed it since. It will always be the Anaheim Stadium, never ever the Edison Stadium or whatever it is now. Gah!
madmommy @ 201
If I ever decide to like football maybe I will be a Green Bay fan.
Marion in Savannah @ 167
Make it a double, Marion.
SnarKassandra @ 176
A lot of Repubs were on the wrong side of Hitler. Thought he wasn’t so bad, etc. GOP hated Roosevelt and his handling of the Depression. Group of GOP senators went over to Germany in mid 30s to see how they were handling the Depression, in a less socialist-y way than FDR. Said things like “we could learn a thing or two from Chancellor Hitler,” etc, and paid a disastrous price at the polls later. GOP was marginalized for a long time. If you were born in 1933, by the time you graduated from college, you had never seen an incumbent Republican president. Republicans had to become super-hawks and finally nominate a general to return from the margins.
After 9/11, Democrats felt the same fear as 40s Republicans, and didn’t want to get outhawked and marginalized for a generation. So they got suckered into this stupid war. They own half of it. They don’t want to own the other half. But neither do they want to look weak. It’s a no-win for them.
punaise @ 101
Oh heck! Was searching for an appropriate place to thank you, Hugh, for answering my question in such detail way back at Petri/Crockpot/-dish Day2/I #100 or thereabouts. This spot was too hilarious to pass up.
Hugh’s answer to me bears repeating, so, without further ado:
Truly, you guys are just great! The rest of the world is gonna take a little work…
Thanks, all. ;->
tw3k @ 203
“We’re fixing your country. Leave us alone and let us work.”
Elliott @ 196
From the article…
I’m sure they parsed the hell out of those agreements.
Hiya pups, late again and not going to even try to catch up.
Anyone have the day’s highlights? Or lowlights, as the case may be.
SnarKassandra @ 166
Frankly, there are times when I don’t think they’re scared at all. There are times when I’m convinced that a good chunk of the Dems want the same thing — only for them to be in control, not the Republicans…so they don’t actually want to upset the apple cart too much.
This is me at my most cynical of course. And actually all you need is (when we’re talking about as close a division between the parties as we have right now, in the House/Senate) a few Democrats who are craven that way.
SnarKassandra: Here’s a great resource for your friend, and for anyone who has kids or plans to have kids.
http://www.mothering.com
SnarKassandra @ 205
Great history there, frozen tundra and all that jazz. The only way to get tickets is to have someone die and leave you theirs. The waiting list is, I believe, about 15 years for season tickets. And it is outdoors, so the fans are hard core. And they wear cheese hats.
bg @ 188
President.
At least that’s what folks around here keep saying.
The beat goes on…the beat goes on…
The Bush administration “has just about had it with Iran,” said one foreign diplomat. “They tried the diplomatic process. China is now obstructing them at the U.N. Security Council and the Russians are tucking themselves behind them.
“The Germans are wobbling …There are a number of people in the administration who do not want their legacy to be leaving behind an Iran that is nuclear armed, so they are looking at what are the alternatives? They are looking at other options,” the diplomat said
-GSD
Bush will bomb Iran.
SnarKassandra @ 173
The guy who started Chanel One pioneered this kind of stuff–advertiser-sponsored lit in doctor’s offices
wangdangdoodle @ 211
hey WDD!
Thanks Bonkers. I will give it to her. She is my age, almost 16, and the baby is due in January.
Eli @ 208
Eli
Thanks for a really good post. The idea that the Dems get separated from their base is a really good one and I think it has happened to a large degree. Thanks.
Short answer of a very complicated question of “Why are the Dems so scared?” is a conglomeration of what everyone else has posted.
Media attacks (from Corporatism or just the bubble nature of beltway ‘wisdom’)
Honest or dishonest beliefs on the results of requiring withdrawal
Lack of public push (some push but are mostly sidelined, there aren’t yet enough channels to overweigh the above)
Some of our representatives are not, unfortunately, the best informed people in the world
Personal calculation of “I want to keep my Job” and thinking that the best way is to go along, to get along.
Well it wasn’t so short, but given the complexity it is the best I could do.
OK, here goes.
I think about the only reason that would adequately explain why the Dems are so consistently and thoroughly scared would be because they’ve been told that if they take any substantive steps to actually stop BushCheneyCo. in any meaningful way, something truly terrible will happen. Like another attack on us domestically, or else an attack by us somewhere else, i.e. Iran, and in either case a declaration of emergency powers will quickly follow. (Note, Pakistan seems back on the verge of declaring martial law as of yesterday.)
So maybe the Dems aren’t so much afraid for themselves, maybe they’re actually more afraid for us.
If that’s right, then maybe the reason why all those Repubs are suddenly decamping is because word is leaking out, and they just can’t abide.
I wish I actually knew, all this piecing-together from the info-scraps on the tubes is about driving me ’round the bend!!!
Hmmm.
madmommy @ 212
I think I would watch on TV. But I don’t like football much.
Elliott @ 217
hey Pokey!
I’m beat.
GSD @ 195
Makes great mulch too.
-GSD
Twain @ 219
Thanks. I’m not sure that the media are the cause, but I think the Dems being more responsive to the media than to us is definitely a symptom.
LS @ 13
Before you advocate that better check out this:
The Boxer Short
The fish, read ‘Democrat’ Party, is rotting from the head down. We need to start thinking real, real big in terms of taking out the trash in the current Democratic Party.
Real Big.
Eli @ 187
Out! By all means. But it goes to the question of what the dems are scared of. How many times in the last month did you hear of the “bloodbath” that followed our withdrawal from Vietnam? It was minor, of course, especially compared to certain other things that happened which we don’t talk about.
I’m actually somewhat optimistic that this one won’t be major either. And I’m certain that our presence interferes greatly with the Iraqis doing their own negotiations which is what they have to do.
But that’s what the dems are afraid of. They’ll be blamed for every drop of (suddenly precious) Iraqi blood shed after we withdraw. It’s a given.
Hiya Ms. Doodley!
GSD @ 225
and I bet it works great on the dog hair, too!
Going back on topic for a minute. Pelosi hid out all during the August break. She, Harry Reid, and the rest of the Democratic leadership should have been reaching out to the 60-70% of the American public who oppose the war. If they had, they could have returned to Washington loaded for bear. But they didn’t.
I think it is because they don’t trust us and just dismiss us. For them we are good to have around at election time but otherwise we just don’t know how to keep our place and stay out of their way. So they could have returned with the American people at their back but they came back instead weak, divided, and with no clear message. They did this to themselves
SnarKassandra @ 228
Hola, chica!
GSD @ 194
SnarKassandra @ 190
Um, powerade is soda without the carbonation. Probably what they call “juice” is, too.
Thanks for the new insight, Eli. (I did at least read the post.) Hadn’t considered that angle but it makes a whole lot of sense.
GordonM @ 227
I always choose to be out of the handbasket whenever possible.
I think the Dems are in fact correct that Iraq will get very ugly when we withdraw, but I just don’t think there’s any way to avoid it, whether we’re there or not.
speaking of topics, i am sorry if i hijacked your thread eli.
SnarKassandra @ 236
Eh, no problem. It looks like the two conversations were coexisting amicably enough.
GordonM @ 232
I’m so glad my kids don’t like soda pop. They mostly drink milk, with the occasional juice or water when playing outside. The oldest says he thinks cokes taste “peppery”. Must be the bubbles that annoy him.
madmommy @ 237
One of my first words was “choda”. I really liked soda even when I was a baby.
And the hell of it is, the blame probably would stick to the Dems. It’s happened before, look at the Swiftboating. Who would have thought that crap would stand. There are some really gullible and some even downright stupid people out there. While I was working for a candidate here in AZ, we called supposedly Dems with some polling questions, and one guy said he doesn’t vote Dem anymore since John Kerry became our candidate. He said he was in Viet Nam and he knows Kerry could not have won two purple hearts because nobody does. He was a total asshole, and wrong, wrong, wrong. But he’s a voter, all the same. This too is disgusting.
Appropriate music selection?
It’s a twofer…
madmommy @ 240
Some of us are like that. I despised anything carbonated growing up. I can tolerate seltzer water now, usually mixed in with fruit juice. But I’ve always been a huge milk and juice drinker. My older nephew appears to be the same (although my sister isn’t letting them have carbonated drinks yet) so could be a family thing? Hard to say. No one in my family is big on sodas although I’m the only “teetotaller”.
Hugh @ 231
Hugh. Thank you for your comments. Are you a teacher/prof./lawyer by trade? or just incredibly gifted? ;->
Please see #209 just above, & thanks again.
Hugh @ 232
Yes, yes, yes, and absolutely. I was gobsmacked they didn’t do the most basic of PR/campaigning, outreach during August. That’s supposed to be WHY August is a month off!!!!
Eli @ 238
SnarKassandra. Bless you gal! You give us hope for the future. Keep on, just as you are. ;->
SnarKassandra @ 222
Don’t look at it as a sport. Look at it as a spectacle.
(Want sport? What baseball or soccer or hockey. Or the last 5 minutes of a basketball game.)
peanutbutter @ 244
They were hiding from us because they knew what we’d say.
GordonM @ 245
Basketball is cool. Go SPurs!
Eli @ 237
If that is true then the only question left is how many more lives and dollars do we pour down this hole?
cahuenga @ 249
How many you got?
peanutbutter @ 244
I do enjoy a Coke now and then, and not the diet stuff either. But I rarely buy it, and never offered it to the kiddos. At this point I am seriously thinking about purchasing a cow and eliminating the middle-man, we go through 3-4 gallons a week and the kids are only 6 1/2 and (tomorrow) 4.
Anyone know Althespook’s new site?
Loo Hoo. @ 252
http://ratiocinatonsofasavageheart.blogspot.com/
peanutbutter @ 246
Pelosi was campaigning and fundraising with the Majority-Makers, like Harry Mitchell in Arizona. She was in-district briefly, for an AIDS Memorial Grove event in GG park that was not publicized until afterwards. Otherwise, she was on the road and in smoke-filled rooms.
Loo Hoo. @ 234
LooHoo, The US has used these types of weapons for years. On humans no less.
-GSD
Loo Hoo. @ 253
Here
Loo Hoo. @ 254
He put it on the late nite thread last night, is it accessable? I meant to bookmark it and forgot.
My latest blog post.
Uh, people, this is why the Declaration of Independence (remember that? well worth a re-read, just Google it) was written the way it was written. But, of course, Americans had the balls to fight for their freedom back then. Now, we’d rather fuck and play video games, so we’ll get what we deserve.
Delurking again to say Thanks! to Eli. Your post did just give me an “Ah Hah” moment which explains a lot of cognitive dissonance about the public versus TV commentary. Doesn’t exactly make me feel like ‘free ponies for all’ are on the horizon though.
I know this is going to be epu’d and I don’t have time to stick around to do it again.
Have a good night y’all:
David Sirota on the Hostile Takeover of the Democratic Party
It explains a shitload of stuff.
Also, things may have just gotten really tough for Senator John Sununu, (R)-NH , to get re-elected:
Former NH Gov. Shaheen to enter race for NH Senate?
“This comes as unconfirmed word that the Kennedy School of Government is now looking for a new director. If that’s true, it would mean former Gov. Jeanne Shaheen is freed up from that nonpartisan role to jump into the Senate race. She will be giving a non-political speech to a women’s group in the state later this month.
All signs of late seem to point to Shaheen getting in, which would be a big blow to Swett and Portsmouth Mayor Steve Marchand, who have spent the last six months building a support network and raising money.”
-GSD
madmommy @ 251
A few years ago, my Godfather’s widow thanked me for the education I had given her. We had visited them when I was 15 and she got to see an advance glimpse of a teenage boy’s appetite (her son at the time was about 6 or 7). When I was 12 or 13 I could pretty much drink a gallon of milk by myself every couple of days. Now I’m lucky to use a quart every two weeks.
Happy Birthday Mad4YrOld!
technicolor @ 259
Thanks, technicolor! I am always honored when someone delurks to comment on one of my posts.
But no, it doesn’t exactly give one a lot of cause for hope.
THHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUH YANKEES WIN!!!!
I’m watching 9/11, edited redeux (MSNBC); Why are these same people telling us what to “think”…. It is nothing less than “redirection” of our thinking.
No Koolaid!!
SnarKassandra @ 265
He is that, in spades! He was actually scheduled for today, but since he was a planned C-section I didn’t want his birthday to be on such a sad day if I could avoid it.
Big Mitch @ 267
Looks as though the Sox will, as well.
Eli. Thank you!
This poor thread has been all ’round the block several times by now.
I just wanted you to know it gets its own bookmark from me, because it explains so much about topics I have been confused by for some time now. I recognize what’s happening, sorta, but needed more to tackle the problems in our own corner of the universe here.
Thank you much!
GSD @ 215
IIRC Iran is signatory of the ICC
TRex is dishin’ on Ted Stevens upstairs
Big Mitch @ 265
Uh Mitch? So did the Red Sox. That number keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller every day don’t it?
Thank God!
Henry Waxman has agreed to investigate Bill Clinton.
The matrix is complete.
-GSD
GordonM @ 248
I like basketball when it is played by not-tall people.
dakine01 @ 275
That would probably be a much more effective taunt if the Yankees didn’t have a fairly healthy lead for the wild card…
Adie @ 272
Wow, I’m flattered! Thanks, Adie!
Eli @ 15
Feingold for Senate Majority Leader
Robert Wexler for House Speaker
Now we would see some positive movement.
Eli @ 278
Yeah, I know but I still had to do it. After all, the Sox were down about 5 or 6 runs when he posted that the Yanks were winning and the Sox losing
GSD @ 217
This is why the complete absence of the foreign policy/national security ‘vision thing’ is so troubling. The PNAC vision of the world (tell people what to do, when and how to do it, and if they don’t behave then start a war) has become some kind of elite discourse consensus.
Seems like there is no discussion in corporate press or by Dems criticizing the Cheney-bush BS and bad faith efforts to accomplish anything. There have been no comprehensive diplomatic talks with Iran. Just little meets where we tell them to stop meddling with iraq and then the Bushnaught negotiators go stamp their feet and talk about no progress.
So, seems like no one can talk about what a miserable failure the Cheney-Bush foreign policy (that is, PNAC approach) has been. And you will be labled a wimpy chump if you don’t immediately start talking about how all options on the table all the time. The fact that all options are on the table is obvious if some dire emergency would happen. To keep saying it after no good-faith effort to solve anything by negotiation, is really just threatening war, plain and simple. Any fool can see that, but Cheney-bush and their pals and the corporate press are not just any fools.
Unless the Dems step up it will be all war all the time and we will be ruined. Why not bring up the broader issue of the total failure of the whole Cheneyh/bush/PNAC approach to foreign policy and national security everywhere it has been applied. That would ba a way of escaping the dreaded peace-wimp label.
GSD @ 276
Dan Burton (Dickhead-IN) just had an orgasm.
dakine01 @ 281
There’s a reason the D-Rays are the D-Rays.
GSD: when I clicked on the enviro friendly vacuum bomb story, the headline on that news service was UFOs attack Ukraine. Is that vacuum bomb story more credible than that headline?
Elliott @ 132
Pelosi is no Speaker. Obviously not up to job. Looks whipped.
She should do herself a huge favor and resign.
Just saying.
wesgpc @ 285
I think the UFO’s used vacuum bombs and the Russians stole the technology.
-GSD
No, I believe that I read elsewhere the Russians have tested a new and improved fuel air explosive bomb.
GSD @ 287
OK, I believe GSD, but the ‘Russians stole the technology in the first extra-galactic Unkranian-UFO war’ sounds better. People will believe anything these days, so I might as well use it.
Thinking about new wars and deadly threats is all the rage these days. Why not start a scare about the ’stole UFO technology gap’? Why aren’t our scientists stealing cool UFO technology like they used to. The Russians are getting there first all the time, seems like.
We are wimps and tooo chicken to do space alien humint, or what?
“F” Reid and Pelosi. They’ve failed miserably. Add that includes their miserable failure cadre of spineless Vichy Dems including Hoyer, Durbin, Levin, Schumer, Leahy, and to a large extent even Feingold. The only ones with any kind of pair needed to get things done seem to be Murtha, Dodd, and Edwards.
.
cleter @ 58
Apparently the Truth will set you free…from Rudy!
SanderO @ 115
“You break it you buy it” is not Law. Like so many other things during this Bush administration they just make up crap and then sell it to people as authoritative.
UN Resolution says, you occupy it you DON’T change the government or society in any significant way. We did.
Our only path is to leave and apologize for the damage caused.
SnarKassandra @ 166
Because they’re really not quite sure how crazy Bush is and this is serious stuff, so they don’t want to mess up and lose lives.
Democrats care, Republicans are crazy!
bg @ 202
It’s a great example of how big money has begun to dominate everything in our lives, from school to sports to politics.
Where can this lead, but to disaster after disaster?