It’s “gimme more FUs day.” I’m going to try and liveblog as much of the Petraeus/Crocker Dog and Pony Show and WH-Written Talking Points as I can. Do try to have a light hand in the comments to be kind to the servers and your liveblogger. Thanks!
____________________
After a short delay due to non-working microphones, we are resuming. 1:29 pm ET
GEN. PETRAEUS: Thank you myriad members of Congress for giving me an opportunity to discuss the security situation in Iraq. This is my testimony, although I have briefed my testimony to my chain of command, it has not been reviewed or written by anyone other than me.
The security incidents in Iraq have declined in 8 of the last 12 weeks, with the last 2 weeks having been lowest we’ve seen. Coalition forces have dealt significant blows by taking away a number of their sanctuaries. We’ve also hit a number of shi’ite militia extremists, capturing the head and numerous other leaders of Iranian-supported special groups and a member of the Lebanese Hezbollah-supported group in Iraq. Levels of violence are still at troubling levels, however.
There are still concerns about sectarian problems within the ranks of Iraqi security forces, although they have been doing better in standing up in incursions. Based on all this and the further progress I believe we can sustain in the next few months, I believe we can begin to reduce combat troop levels to pre-surge numbers by next summer. I believe it is still possible to achiee our objectives in Iraq over time, although doing so with be neither easy nor quick.
There is competition among sectarian and ethnic communities for power and control. This competition must take place, and is key to political reconciliation — the key question is whether this will take place more or less violently.
SKELTON interrupts to say the members have copies of the chart Petraeus references.
Chart entitled “Major Threats To Iraq.” Says this is security challenges. Foreign and home-grown terrorists, insurgents, lilitia extremists and criminals all push the ethno-sectarian competition toward violence. Malign actions by Syria and especially by Iran fuel that violence. Lack of adequate governmental capacity, lingering governmental mistrust and corruption add to these challenges.
We have found it useful to revisit the past. Goes back to the bombing of the Golden Mosque. Casey/Khalilzad said things were failing in Iraq — focus since then has been improving security in Baghdad, disrupting sanctuaries of sectarian control and disrupting outside influence — especially Iran’s — from disrupting safety. Talking about mid-June series of operations in Baquba and Anbar and the belts around Baghdad, and several other areas.
Engaged in dialogue with insurgent groups and tribes, which led to several of these standing up to al qaeda and outside forces. [CHS notes: so much for the Ros-Lehtinen talking point on no diplomatic efforts. ooops.] Overall, tactical commanders see improvements on the environment — analyze data from coalition and Iraqi operation centers, using methodology that has been used for well over a year. We try to ensure that the analysis of that data is done with rigor and consistency. Two US intelligence agencies recently reviewed our data, and they liked it. (No word as to which agencies these were.)
Going through a number of charts and numbers now. Sorry, but Petraeus speaks quickly, and I’m not getting accurate numbers here — but someone will certainly grab these charts. I’ll link them up as I find them for analysis. Says ethno-sectarian violence is down in Baghdad neighborhoods some 80% over a period of time.
We have found significant numbers of arms and explosives caches — some 4,409 caches this year — more than the total of the last few years. Petraeus says this may account for the disruption of attack levels, with the dramatic decrease of armaments. Also reduction of al-Anbar problems, and they are seeing similar actions in other locations as well. This has not been a uniform decline in all areas of Iraq. [CHS notes: No mention of the fact that August has always been a decline month over the four years of the conflict there. Will be interesting to see if the media picks up on that number/scheduling trick at all.]
In the past 8 months, says that they have reduced the areas in which al qaeda enjoys sanctuary in Iraq. Certainly not defeated, but certainly off balance and they are pursuing their leaders and operations capacity aggressively through conventional forces, special ops and better intel operations — a combination of these efforts is necessary to prevent a terrorist safe haven in Iraq. [CHS notes: Not to mention an urban warfare training ground, which is disastrous.] Going into munitions which he says are provided by Iran — increasingly apparent that they are hoping to turn insurgent groups with Iranian loyalties into an Hezbollah-like group to push forward its agenda in Iraq.
The most significant development in the last 6 months ahs been individual tribes, local leaders and citizens rejecting al qaeda and working with the Iraqi government and/or coalition forces to reject them. Anbar is unique, however, but we will try to do the same sort of engagement in other areas. Despite concerns about sectarian problems and loyalty issues, Iraqi officers are engaged around the country. There are around 140 Iraqi batallions in the fight, with 90 of them sort of able to work with a bit of American support. Despite their shortages, many units operate with minimal American assistance. Helping Iraqis to expand their forces.
The number of Iraq’s security forces may grow as much as 40,000 more troops this year. Continuing to expand basic capacity, leadership programs, and other essential services to support these forces. Iraq will spend more on its security forces than it will receive in aid from the US — they are one of our best military FMS customers, and thanks to members of Congress who are speeding that process up.
The US will be in a position to reduce its forces in Iraq in the months ahead. [CHS notes: no mention of the fact that, by the numbers of ready troops, they pretty much have to do so.] There is a need to continue the counterinsurgency strategy that we are already employing, with Iraqis shouldering more of the burden in the days ahead. Need to contest the enemy’s growing use of internet operations to advance their objectives– military aspects of the surge have achieved progress and momentum. Sucess requires conventional forces as well as special-ops forces, and security and local political progress and national political progress will take place only if security exists.
Iraqi leaders want to assume greater sovereignty in their nation. Iraq wants to negotiate a long-term security deal with the US and other nations. Rolling out that the marine expeditionary unit withdrawing by October, several combat brigade teams and other marine units until we reach pre-surge numbers in mid-July 2008. In my professional judgment, it would be premature to make projections on this — it can be misleading and even hazardous, because events change quickly on the ground in Iraq. Uses Anbar and Baghdad areas as examples.
Need to consider these factors in mid-March of next year. [CHS notes: And there it is. The next FU request -- exactly another 6 months of delay. Shocked. Shocked, I tell ya.] Lovely colored chart on potential reductions over several years, I think (they don’t exactly spell that out in bold on the chart). There is a real danger in handing things over to the Iraqis before they are ready to handle them in the local areas and among themselves.
I believe Iraq’s problems will require a long-term effort. We believe this will succeed, but it will take time. Cites the 8/16/07 DIA report: rapid withdrawal would result in a number of dangerous results, including a high risk of disintegration of Iraqi security forces, rapid deterioration of local security initiatives, al qaeda Iraq regaining initiative., more refugee flows, and internal and external forces gaining footholds to use the chaos to their advantage…and several other problems. Need more time in Iraq to keep this from happening.
Want to thank Congress for support of military in Iraq. The forces there are our most professional — and they continue to raise their hands and agree to fight in our nation’s uniform despite all of the problems we have seen the last few years. All of us appreciate what you have done to ensure that they have everything they need to accomplish their mission, and to enable their families to keep going as well. Making a plug for all the weapons’ systems investments. Funding of commanders’ emergency response system has made a huge difference.
It remains an enormous privilege to soldier again in Iraq. Our soldiers have done a magnificent job in the most difficult circumstances imaginable.
Starting a new thread for Amb. Crocker…
Related posts:
- Odierno and Petraeus vs. Cheney on Abuse as a Terrorist Recruitment Tool
- Saddam Interrogation: US Still Trying to Show 9/11 Connection as Late as Mid-2004
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Thomas Ricks – The Gamble: General David Petraeus and the American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2006-2008
- David Petraeus is a Secret Muslim
- US Contractors Held in Iraqi Jail for Green Zone Murder





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oboy
WooHOO!
hello.
Zed
heeere’s Betrayus
dog and pony show!
Here goes, thanks Christy.
Zed?
Good morning gang.
Hey all, wheels off yet?
CHS, thank you for the live-blogging :-)
Ponies!
In the first line…
The surge is working…..TA DAH….
Hunter: Wanking Weeeeeee-publican.
Morning! I’ve been looking for someone liveblogging this. I’m a C&L regular stopping by.
Duncan Hunter’s face has “I am a prickly douche bag” written all over it.
-GSD
As I posted on other link to this…
the fact that Petraeus’s microphone will not work is a perfect reflection of the empty words we will hear from this Bush puppet….
P: Surge is working.
Attacks down, partly this is due to annual mid-summer downturns, ethnic cleansing, and temporary truce in Anbar. Attacks do not mean deaths which remain high both for our troops and Iraqi civilians.
The Anbar truce was not part of the surge, repeat not part of the surge.
Jeebus @ 15
All praise Jeebus.
-GSD
What’s with the Hitler references? Who’s Hitler here? Saddam? He’s dead! Osama bin what’s-his-name? We’re not even trying to find him anymore.
1.5 FUs.
By next summer, a decrease. Not soon enough, so sorry.
Chris Matthews just told us on MSNBC that MoveOn.org is the Democrat group allowed Clinton to “get away with what he got away with and move on to something else.”
HuH?
more time = more $$$
UsedKleenex @ 22
WHAT??
Is someone going to ask about the fact that in in the Field Manual, controlling an insurgency takes 1 soldier for ever 40-50 members of the population? And that Petraeus was involved in writing the Field Manual? And that he suddenly doesn’t have a problem with 160k troops when his own numbers would require AN ADDITIONAL 500k?
Here’s the General… “Al-Qaeda! Iran! Al-Qaeda! Iran!”
He says we may be able to reduce troops to “pre-surge” levels by next summer – he doesn’t say that he has no frickin’ choice, since we’re out of troops. Schmuck!
He’s glad he wasn’t sworn in. I figure at least three out of the first five statements out of his mouth were falsehoods.
Ah, ’sometimes downright frustrating’. Couldn’t be that bad, hey?
Dog & Pony? Nah. Tijuana Donkey Act!
We are going to bomb Iran soon, and this General P. business is just the usual Bush Administration window dressing and a very poorly designed distraction.
Wonder if the Dems will ask about the numbers of AQI that are in Iraq as compared to insurgents? Also wonder if the fact that MILLIONS have fled the country including thousands from Baghdad alone since the “surge” began (fewer to be killed)…or that fact that the progress in Al Anbar started loong before Bush’s surge and that the area is “quiet” mainly because of the curfews, and ban on cars etc in the city….
UsedKleenex @ 22
that makes so little sense my head exploded… for real
Will Petraeus admit that Iraq is in civil war? I doubt it. So most of what P. has to say is going to be irrelevant.
Ethno-centric competition toward violence? Does this mean civil war? Can you say civil war, General? I thought not.
RE: Chris Matthews
I’m Tivoing so I replayed it twice.
He said “as he recalls” MoveOn.org is a partisan Democrat group that was somehow involved in the Clinton-Monica-Impeachment thing. I had no idea!!
Chart has AQ all over it.
as he wasnt sworn in he’s free to lie with impunity
GP recommends that troops can be drawn down to pre-surge levels by next year. 2 FUs from now.
“…Iranian supported militia extremists…”
Step by step, inch by inch….
US troop deaths just went from 19 this month to 30.
-GSD
Doesn’t miss a chance to mention Iran
Helpless Dancer @ 27
It seems like, in the past, witnesses have been sworn in after their opening statements.
Senator Petreaus, why the uniform?
-GSD
what i want to know…. will he be questioned or is he here to read the WH report?
“Considerable data collection..conducted with rigor” has been used to determine we are succeeding….!
Will we get to see it?
Also love how the GOP is calling for the Dems to distance themselves from Moveon based on their “inaccurate” portrayal of Petreus. The GOP didn’t call out the Swift boaters for their baseless attacks against Kerry….
The day They come out to say “everything is great!” eight guys die. Wonder if the MSM will mention that…
One liners welcome
http://www.chatzy.com/507191129048
theWalrus @ 39
Real Three Stooges stuff. “Step by step I turned…”
Two agencies reviewed his methodology for data reporting and concluded just a-ok. Even the best! What agencies, what methodology?
This must be quite a change for the general appearing before a group non-kinetically.
P: Our data is good, especially if you don’t ask about it too closely.
Petraeus: two intell agencies have reviewed our methodology. But I’m not going to tell you which intell agencies they are.
Just a reminder folks, for the sake of the servers and to help Christy out, please stay on topic and keep the one-liners to a minimum. Thanks!
Those charts are totally based on apples and oranges…aren’t they?
Note – no description of methods of data collection, just a bunch of flap about it being legit. He says 2 intelligence services reviewed it? Oh, like the guys that told us about the WMD… those intelligence agencies? Wow, that seems pretty solid to me.
7 US killed, 11 wounded in Iraq vehicle ‘accident’.
-GSD
this just one big cluster F—! Think I’ll donate to Move-On.
emptywheel @ 51
It’s Classified.
National Security, doncha know.
yadda, yadda, yadda.
It’s a game for Petraeus. We’re only a pawn in their game.
Here’s some news:
US plans military base near Iran
The Pentagon plans to build a military base near the Iran-Iraq border, according to the Wall Street Journal.
The newspaper quoted a senior US army commander as saying that the base will be used to try and prevent the flow of weapons by Shia fighters into Iraq.
Major-General Rick Lynch, the commander of the US army’s 3rd Infantry Division, said that the Pentagon also plans to build checkpoints on major highways leading from the Iranian border to Baghdad.
The Dems should tear this guy apart (but they won’t).
i know moveon is loving all this publicity… thanks repugs ;o)
oooo pretty charts! distract us more please
Those missing munitions caches…are they the missing half-million guns we learned about months ago?
Civilian death statistics in Iraq are notoriously inaccurate. That P. thinks he has a handle on them and that he can determine into what categories these deaths fall is all speculation built on fantasy.
He is also comparing these BS numbers mid-summer to December. Conflict in Iraq is seasonal and he is comparing high activity winter months with low activity summer months. It is BS.
More weapons caches found this year than all last year. Because we have more troops searching or because the insurgents are accumulating more weapons? If they’re finding more weapons, and attacks are still going up, then are we really making a dent in the “networks that carry out these barbaric attacks”?
juslin @ 62
Hugh @ 66
Yeah…my question is why go back only months when we’ve been at this for over 3 years! WTF?
Whoah. We have a synergy of actions that are solving our problems in preventing terrorists from establishing a safe haven in Iraq.
yeah but but where’s osama bin forgotten?
Are those who made statements the only ones who will be asking questions? Hunter, Lantos, Skelton and that Florida woman?
From the Jerusalem Post: “strike them agan and again”
From the beginning of Teheran’s march towards a nuclear capability, Israel has attempted to convince the world of the danger posed by a nuclear Iran. According to a former Mossad director, should Israel remain alone in its efforts to thwart Iran’s nuclear ambitions, it has only one viable option before Iran achieves its goal: to strike its most important nuclear facilities and set its program back by several years – this, instead of attempting to wipe out its program entirely, which may be beyond Israel’s ability. And once the Iranians recover and begin advancing – which they will – strike them again and again, until they decide to pursue a different path.
People are yelling from the gallery.
We must see the “rigously collected” data that P. is basing his summary on. Otherwise this is BS. I hope the Dems hound him for this.
We’re doing the cherry-picking of facts to put the best face on this ugly pig at the moment.
As the saying goes, ‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’
Code Pink: That’s a lie, that’s a lie!
What’s with all the charts? Guarantee that they weren’t produced in Iraq before he came back. Collusion with the WH, nah.
Yeah, only we’re allowed to shoot rockets at civilians!
Atikar @ 64
There have been several missing items like nuclear warheads too (that were apparently recovered)….
It was a busy month in August at the lost and found…..
Tweety and the ReTHUGS actually think that move-on and its members care what the congressman and the senators think…THEY DON’T
zennurse @ 71
No, all members are able to ask questions after opening statements, but for five minutes only (per each member).
I hope someone asks him how the US can win or lose the Iraqi civil war. How that defies logic.
So they just kicked all of Code Pink out?
Blame the Iranians. Evil, evil Iranians. Got proof, general? Didn’t think you did but because if you did you would be presenting it.
Petraeus, by refusing to relate the arming of Iraqis by Iranians to the similar or greater intervention by Saudis betrays his agenda.
By George have his eyes left his script that he and only he has written?
Sheesh – even Mr Skelton couldn’t handle the lies….
code pink is now being removed in masse.
Actually, it’s starting to sound like an Alberto Gonzales opening statement/filibuster where he says all the great things the DOJ was doing while he was undermining it from within…
you can only attend the hearing if you sit quietly with hands folded like good lil chilrun… whats next gagging people in the room?
according to Petraeus..ALL of the large scale attacks are ALQ inspired…bullcrap!
juslin @ 90
That’s always been the rule, actually.
Christy: Don’t forget the bus & the peanut :))
Ed*ard Teller @ 85
Exactly, P is showing with his opening statement how in Bush’s pocket he is and how not objective he is.
In the good ol business world we’d laugh our asses off at the idea that the best and most objective view of how a project was doing would be from the person responsible for it.
Funny as hell.
God this out and out lying is just so painful to watch. Has this man never heard of COLIN POWELL!!!
Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, the base, the base, the base.
A question that must be asked is how many Al Qaeda are in Iraq.
Also, ask what concrete evidence is there that it was Al Qaeda that bombed the Golden Mosque.
Just checked in. It’s about as depressing as I expected it to be. Don’t know if my stomach can handle this hearing. What a god-awful mess. Skelton nailed Petraeus.
As to Move-on. The Wurlitzer is really scared now that there is a real money propaganda push-back. Too late. People know too much about the war for the smear to work.
445,000 indiv. on payroll of interior and defense ministries. Oh, and we hope to add 40 thous. by next year.
Whoah, Iraq will spend more money next year. GP just called Iraq one of the U.S. largest sales customers. Military industrial complex at work.
Jeebus @ 83
I hope so, that pi es me off, too. No matter what you think about what P is saying or why, there are huge decisions that will be made about this and , like it or not, his testimony is what these critters need to hear today in order to refute or absorb it. All that kind of action does is bring shame and criticism onto our progressive antiwar cause. If they had just stayed quiet, Tweety would have nothing to say.
There are hundreds of other ways to do what they want to do, this is not the way.
GP wants our military to transition from leading to partnering to overwatch. How many Iraqi brigades operate independently after three years?
Franco @ 91
This is completely true. All al Qaeda members wear a big AQ on their backs to help in our identification of them. They also carry al Qaeda membership cards and often jump up and down and yell, Look over here I’m al Qaeda.
I can’t listen to this.
I’m outta here like Code Freakin’ Pink.
Thanks Christy for live-blogging! Don’t forget to pick up The Peanut.
Ohhhhhh, Al Quaeda has bloggerz!
If you listen via cspan you dont have to listen to tweety. just sayin -)
Again, GP is stating drawdown of forces only in terms of reduction from the surge levels.
Can Congress demand that the POTUS and 4th Branch appear and testify regarding the war??? There must be a way.
TRex @ 104
having a couple stiff drinks before it started is the only thing keeping me here. I might need another. bleh.
zennurse @ 100
I don’t agree with them acting childishly at the hearing; that does nothing to lend credibility to the antiwar movement. This is a hallowed chamber and the hearing is to be respected, if not trusted.
However you don’t kick the entire group out for the actions of one. That’s not right either.
Sorry zennurse YOU ARE WRONG…people have a right to protest and dissent….as long as they accept the responsibility of their actions…ie..arrest or being thrown out….
we need more people like code pink for the progressive movement, because as of this minute the progressive movement thanks to our reps is a FAILURE! At least code pink has big kahunes.
P: “We must continue spying on Americans so we can continue to fail in Iraq”.
emptywheel @ 52
hi EW. glad to see you here.
if he tells you his secret, then it’s not his secret any more.
gawdhepme, i hope he does faint. actually, a good p*rging vomit might refresh. mebbe a cold towel to the 4head…
Isn’t it lucky that P’s strategic objectives will be met just as the “surge” runs out of troops? Talk about serendipity.
Is he saying we have to surge more, to then be able to redeploy?
When he refers to the radical group in Iraq as Al Q*da you know he is lying.
The group calls itself Al Q*da in Iraq or (sometimes) Al Q*da in Mesopotamia.
Calling it Al Q*da is a deliberate attempt to deceive. It’s like calling a Hewlitt-Packard a Packard.
when you hear lies lies and more lies its enough to make you want to scream at these “hearings”… i say thank god for code pink having the courage to do what they do
How big is a “brigade combat team”?
P: 1 brigade out in Dec.*
4 more in 2008 (within the first 7 months).*
* Subject to change without notice.
Balzar @ 106
CSPAN-1 began showing it.
I only caught a bit of this – what’d he say about how we should limit the terrorists use of the Net?
Code Pink is annoying as hell.
I don’t think they realize how ridiculous and counterproductive their obnoxious harassment is. I doubt anyone in the room has much respect for them which, unfortunately, reflects on all of those opposed to the occupation of Iraq.
Pure hogwash.
Brigade = between 1,500 and 3,200 soldiers.
zennurse @ 118
4-5000 I’m thinking. A brigade is that large.
Atikar @ 115
My bad…no he isn’t. but I also would like to know (like zennurse at 118) how big is that force?
There it was – what I was scared shitless would happen.
“Guys, the surge isn’t working because of… Iran dude! If we could just bomb the shit out of them, everything would be fine. Seriously.”
I expect to hear a lot of more this before this is over.
Oh brutha.
i love code pink and wish them well for doing what i dont have the nerve to do but would love to do as they do..
LS @ 97
Juan Cole says A Q is not very significant in Iraq. Other factions are much larger, stronger and and more significant. You wouldn’t know it from Betrayus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_Combat_Team
Does anyone know what he means by the “enemy’s use of cyberspace”? Is there a recommendation restricting the internet or am I over-interpreting?
P: Wants 15 Brigades out by later 2008. That means approx. 22 to 48 thousand (I’ll take the lower). Basically the amount of the “surge” group. i.e. no change.
Fake hair ,fake speech . it’s ALL IRANS fault!…….. Plus ?????? Was G. betrayus sworn in .. or Not … and if not WHY NOT?
What this he mentions regarding increased security in cyberspace to combat extremism??
Does this mean more censorship and branding normal dissent (blogs etc) as terrorist sympathizers??
“No easy answers or quick solutions” Yeah, but when WE said that BEFORE the war Bush-Cheny cabal said it would be a “cakewalk” “greeted as liberators”.
zennurse @ 118
3500 I think. Plus support of 700. Others are more expert than I.
Franco @ 112
I disagree. If we expect to have respect during a Dem presidency and majority for the issues we want driven forward in the future, the halls of Congress need to be respected. As I said, there are hundreds of other ways and places for Code Pink to protest loudly and daily, and I respect their willingness and desire to do just that. I also support their creativity, having participated years ago in efforts to get AIDS drugs out to people in many of the same ways. But I don’t think, and didn’t then, that disrupting a hearing like this in the chamber is the way to do it. It brings shame on the movement and allows the other side to dismiss us out of hand.
I am not wrong, I just disagree with you.
Atikar @ 64
I suspect they’re referring to places like Al Qaqaa, which was an enormous munitions dump we knew about in advance that was stripped out because our leaders secured the oil ministry instead of the arsenals.
Is Petraeus using “hair club”?
Uh oh. only on the umteenth page, and Skelton’s already fidgeting, looking disgusted & trying to catch the eye of those around him. The fella pointing at the charts for the betr. looking decidedly ill-at-ease.
a little wobble in the up-to-now strong voice, just a tiny tremor briefly, while talking about recommended force levels…
Betr. no longer even trying to look up. Just hustling thru the text..
Again the real key point here is that P completely fails to miss that Iraq is in civil war. All these plans and fake numbers are as relevant as him building a birdfeeder to solve Iraq’s problems.
Now P is hitting the bad things will happen if we leave.
What he also fails to note is that he and his brother generals have been failing in Iraq for 4 1/2 years. Now they want another couple of years to do much the same.
now i hope strong questioning begins
zennurse @ 137
Exactly!
Hugh @ 102
Plus, don’t we have all their members’ application forms, too?
Here’s some info. A brigade has its own headquarters plus two battalions – a battalion alone is up to 1000.
GP is so proud of our new Sunni BFFs. Let’s arm them so well that they really start whooping ass on the Shiites. Then when they’re back in charge, they’ll turn the guns on us. New definition coming of friendly fire. Another way to discount American deaths.
Franco @ 138
I did a google sreach ,and i’d say it a wig.
JML @ 131
See my #121 – this was sort of subtle but I feel it has a significant implication.
ok let’s get this thing started for real, enough opening statement BS
now for testimonial BS!!!
JML @ 131
Actually that would depend who exactly is defined as an enemy….
How wide is this net and is this guy talking to David Brooks….
big bob @ 134
Probably after his opening statement.
Pure bullshit…
More time, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Give em the fucking hook…
Nothing about the broken Army.
We have a winner and a 5 Star General.
Greatest generation?
point taken zennurse…I don’t agree. The halls of congress are owned by the people…therefore the people have a right to dissent anyway they like.
wow. very good shouting that GP is a liar.
Is that a new term – “America’s NEW, greatest generation.”?
petwrecker @ 142
It’s called kabuki. They are partisan supporters of a failed policy.
Code pink is out of control, acting like children. Really disgusting. And yes dissent is patriotic but this is ridiculous.
It’s getting nasty in there….
Code pink is getting prosecuted?…..
good. prosecute americans for voicing their opinions in Congress. but let’s allow GP, AbuGonz, et al to lie under oath without penalty.
juslin @ 127
It doesn’t take nerve or courage or even “kahunes” (sic) as someone said above. I know a three-yr old who can put on the same performance at the grocery checkout in a dispute over a pack of gum.
Code Pink is not helping us by disrespecting the chamber.
Code Pink screaming…sounds like one of them just got manhandled…OW, OW, OW….I have the right! Cindy Sheehan arrested earlier…
Skelton – we will prosecute them under the law – this is intolerable.
More are popping up and yelling…
Skelton: Free speech can’t be tolerated.
(Will anyone be left in the gallery??)
oops, more pinkies getting ejected, screaming.
ohhh skelton using repug hardball tactics – democracy slowing ebbing – no more free speech i guess damn!
Cool, and who said it would be a dog and pony show?
Yeah Code Pink outta control. I’m not sure what I think of the disruption.
valletta @ 158
They are acting like patriots. JMHO
Dissent is good.
Six months from now, they will be vidicated
Stay tuned for the September 2008 Petraeus successor report to Congress.
Nothing is going to change. For the better, anyway.
Dee @ 163
It’s about time someone spoke up. Don’t you realize America is headed into the trash heap?
Crock(er)-a-bullsh*t.
Here comes ItsaCrocker
Ambassador Crocker now up. I guess we should call him crock for short which oddly enough I’m guessing is going to be the content of his testimony. Oh yes, he started on the victory is achievable.
Crocker: There will be no single moment to claim victory.
In retrospect? How about being prospective
How much does obtainium cost?
“There is no point at which we can claim vicory” — Wait there was one… MISSION ACCOMPLISHED anyone???
Oh, hear we go. Comparing to Iraq to our revolutionary war, slavery, yadda yadda.
“Iraq is undergoing a revolution not only a regime change”
They both need to be asked if they wrote their own reports.
Well my planning period and lunch are done in five minutes. Then it’s back to work. Kids and math. Petraeus is a very insignificant burp. I’m sure my party’s leaders and the two Dem front-runners will really smack him down. Yeah. Right.
I can’t wait to see what Faux news says about the disruptions…should be good comedy fodder for us all!
Also, it’ll be interesting to see how the MSM report on the Code Pink disturbances.
Last, is it me or do I see others in the audience who may be biding their time to start yelling?
Not sure if I saw the real thing or he was just shifting ever-so-slightly. After thanking the families of the troops, it looked as if Betr. was rocking fwd & back in his chair – a sure “tell” that he’s highly stressed(?) Mil., Gen, no less, should be able to control & suppress that. Hence the “highly” assumption.
code pink rocks in my view – more power to em i say…i’m here at a keyboard they’re actually putting themselves in danger of jail by merely being vocal…
He refers to his recommendations as if there is a document. Is this something that has been given to Congress and the press? Did I miss something?
Regime change, revolution. what the fuck is he talking about?
What the fuck is his credentials?
He is a fucking hack.
Sorry for the language but this is pathetic.
They both need to be asked if there exist other reports not presented to Congress.
popping in to ask — has anyone mentioned the corruption of the Maliki govt?
“Saddam Hussein ruled without mercy…torture against even those within his inner circle” “Used violence and intimidation…regime protection”
God, he’s describing the Bush administration
Code Pink wouldn’t bother me so much if they weren’t all dressed in pink and screaming like banshees. Now we are going to talk about mean ol’ Saddam as the reason why we HAD to invade and occupy the country……
theWalrus @ 132
LS @ 169
Exactly…
And I surely don’t like Skeleton talking about arresting and prosecution for voicing outrage in the people’s halls.
I’m all for voicing your opinion, but Code Pink are playing right into the Wurlitzer’s hands. They need to be a little smarter about this.
deconstruction…where did he learn that word?
Crocker is undergoing a revolution. No, it is undergoing a civil war. More misdirection. I see. It’s all Saddam’s fault. He forced us to invade Iraq I suppose. Will C go for the gold and blame Clinton as well?
It was not up to us to reprimand Sudam; and now this administration has absolutely no justification as their decisions have created far worse conditions for the Iraqi people in general.
Nelson Mandela…what does he have to do with any of this?
Is he talking about Saddam or the US??
Now the Iraqis get to enjoy non-secular violence…
Men, women, and children running for their lives…
Caught in the middle of this shit storm…
That’s what I call nation building….
Much progress, a framework?
Is this a bad dream
WTF does Hussein have to do with this? The bastard has been dead for months – how about sticking to the topic?
the people that ‘go to work’ in that chamber are the ones disrespecting it!
Join the “FLUSH the TOILET” party…
ya know… every so often you just NEED to change the water in the bowl!
Vote All Incumbents OUT!
deconstruction again… he just loves that word
“Iraq will (continue to) be a traumatized society”; ya think?!
Nothing is going to change.
Not until Barney resigns to spend more time with Michael Vick.
Bu’ush will Stay The Corpse, period.
Crocker is worse than Petraeus.
But if I’m not mistaken, he just used the word “Deconstruction” in a hearing before Congress. September 10, 2007, just in case anyone wants to track the date.
Traumatized country…
Bring back Bremer
valletta @ 180
And how we saved Iraq from a vicious dictator.
I support Code Pink. “The only requirement for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Helter Skelton.
He is an old toad. He needs to go. This man does not believe in democracy. I’m really pi**ed off at that sorry excuse for a representative of the people. Thinks he all entitled and everything…&^((^*(^()^%**()*grrrrrrrrr
Hugh @ 174
Betty Crocker, Crock o’ sh*t, Crocodile tears.
In twenty years, Saddam didn’t accomplish a quarter of the deaths, destruction and misery that Bushco has accomplished in five years. Benchmarks.
its all nice and polite and the war rages on these 2 here and bushco are the ones to be marched out and arrested imo
Tom @ 201
He doesn’t have LurkingMod looking over his shoulder…a shame really!
BobbyG @ 204
Excellent.
Does Crocker even speak Arabic?
Crocker said that Iraq needed to be built up from scratch. He managed to avoid mentioning Bremer’s disbanding of the Iraqi army and de-Baathification in destroying the country.
emptywheel @ 206
See me @ 194 and 203.
We waited three months for this?
I see Code Pink as being a small part of the process of change that is now occuring.
Liking or hating Code Pink may mean that one is focusing too closely on that detail.
If one moves the focus out a bit, to view the process rather than the event. Code Pink falls into place, a small but vital part of the process of change as it rolls along.
Crock attributes widespread displacement of Iraqis to AQI ? what horseshit.
What that tells me is that the displacement of Iraqis is going to be a more front and center problem for the public that BushCo will have to acknowledge, whuch says nothing about how long it has actually been a tragic problem.
He looks like Paul McCartney (no offense toward Sir Paul).
What f’in world does he live in? Take away his Kool Aid, I’m getting sick!
im4mary @ 214
I believe so.
We must destroy your country in order to save it…
they have done a great job… bastards. fucking lying bastards.
Hugh @ 216
That was the original plan.
Just didn’t (and won’t) work out as envisioned.
new thread
im4mary @ 215
If I remember – no. Here’s the Embassy’s (Iraq) page.
Christy has Part III up. Please stay on topic and please limit the one-liners, thanks.
The Petraeus/Crocker Show Part III
ticktock @ 158
Yes. That’s what Skelton said. I believe he firmly said “each and every one” of those attempting to disrupt. But at an earlier point, he ordered all those demonstrating, “and those sitting [next to?/with?] them” to be removed.
I worry about others being tarred, and targetted. And, of course, that is why Skelton said what he did, to intimidate. eh?
This is getting nasty.
New thread
The question about Code Pink is answered by the fact that we have spent more time discussing them than we have discussing these two asshats selling a plan to murder thousands of Iraqis that will cost the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of Americans.
Petraeus qualifies as Evil, in my book.
His lies will send many more American kids to their deaths and disfigurement.
How much ca$h is going into Petraeus’s overseas bank accounts from Bu$hCo?
I would bet, A LOT.
its difficult to listen to bullshit when you know coming through the gate its bullshit… so what are we learning so far? that bullshit still stinks!
If he does, I’ll give him credit for that because the majority of his perspective is Shirley McClain (out on a limb!).
Atikar @ 184
I think you’ve hit on the main problem with Code Pink. The MSM looooves to belittle them and dismiss their message. And I think the rest of us who have similar opinions to code pink, whether we like their tactics or not, are getting sick and tired of being vilified or dismissed as looneies because that is pretty much the only time MSM represents our opinions. I don’t think that’s the fault of Code Pink.
1,592 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
To all those FDLers out there who are wailin’ about the “out of control” Code Pink folks: WAKE UP – THIS IS WHAT FREE SPEECH LOOKS LIKE IN A FASCIST STATE WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC OPPOSITION HAS BEEN SO FRIGHTENED IT CAN’T LOOK ITSELF IN THE MORROR!!
Good God people…the Code Pink folks are standin up and showin the 70% out there who know this “Dog and Pony Show” is a canine burlesque that they are not alone. Instead of howlin’ about those nasty, disrespectful Code Pink folks just remove yer tails from between yer legs and take a look at what courage looks like and balls it takes to speak truth to power.
Fer Christ’s sake people, the Code Pink folks are speakin’ for you and me and all of us who can’t get there or don’t have the stones ta put our bodies out in front of our Bill of Rights.
KEEP THE FAITH AND FIGURE OUT WHO THE HELL THE ENEMY IS!!!
UsedKleenex @ 123
the social and political agitators have been the life blood of our democracy through our nation’s history.
Code Pink exercises civil disobedience as their political expression.
they know they will pay a price.
agitators accept that as the cost of getting heard.
they express the frustrations of many in their desperate screams of protest.
i support Code Pink’s agitation and activism
however, i do not support disruption of congressional committee hearings, especially theses hearings.
the twitchy ninnies like tweety will always grab their pearls whenever they see anything beyond their comfort zone or that threatens their binky.
agitators can not always be polite, modest, decent and gracious.
even though the tweetys do not like that.
patraeus should be peeled and thrown to Code Pink to extract the truth from him.
better television.
better ratings.
theWalrus @ 171
I fully support Code Pink and all the antiwar groups. As a former short-term SDS member who was extremely vocal during Viet Nam, I also have a pretty good idea about what forms of protest work and what don’t. When protest crosses the line, you help the opposition. Most of America will not hear the protest but will hear the disruption. The message becomes lost. I think the threats to prosecute are going too far.
Wordsmith @ 227
Sorry – it was BREMER who didn’t speak Arabic. Crocker is fluent, according to this story.
Once again Norske cuts through to the point.
All you CodePink complainers:
9 US troops killed just today. Ya know, maybe you’re right…we should just sit here and politely talk to each other with proper decorum. With a newfound spirit of bi-partisanship, I’m sure Shrub and the Repubes will work with us to save the lives of thousands of babies.
C’mon, what’s a few more years when we can maintain our civility, right?
Crocker Iraq will remain ” a traumatized society”. Some honesty
Our sanctions, oru invasion of Iraq caused more trauma to the Iraqi people than our support of Saddam
juslin @ 183
Here is a classic liberal view of protest I grew up with since 1968.
It’s not about the cause. It’s not about the lives at risk or the lives already lost in Iraq. No…it’s about the brave & magnificent confrontation of these ladies in pink capes shrieking and disrupting the halls of power!
What did that accomplish? Nothing. I do not want anti-war viewpoints to be defined by that kind of goofy behavior. It never gains respect for your cause. It does earn you the ridicule and disdain of the public. Nice job, pinks!
Yes, by all means, Code Pink should be a little more polite: “U.S out of Iraq now, please, pretty please?”
Maybe it’s about time that the enablers of thousand of American maimed, injured and dead experience first-hand some of that
leftyAmerican anger at their actions.Nobody ever changed the course of history by observing custom.
BobbyG @ 225
Yeah practical application of theory can really be a bitch sometimes.
Geez did Move On get a copy of the report before hand? How did they know Petraeus would “Betraous”
How could Petraeus say that things are “improving” when 70,000 Iraqi people are leaving a month.
Wonder if the 2 million Iraqi refugees are watching this hearing in Syria?
mc @ 244
code pink patriots!
Please stop invading countries based on lies…pretty in pink please
mc @ 244
Really?
I could use health insurance coverage from my employer. Maybe I should storm into the management meeting screaming at the boss with a paper hat on my head until I’m dragged out?
Being polite is pointless, isn’t it? Thanks for the advice. I’ll let you know how it goes.
BigMitch @ 231
The fact that we’re talking about CodePink so much answers what’s wrong with the modern-day Democrats, not what’s wrong with CodePink. So many are more worried about etiquette and not rocking the boat too much, because then the Conglomerate Media will paint us in a bad light.
Meanwhile the takeover of the US continues, and thousands continue to die.
Drastic times call for drastic measures. Keep your eyes on the prize people, and stop deflecting attention from the real issues by nitpicking on people who are on our side and trying to end the killing.
And the Iraqi people (those that are still alive and in Iraq) are waiting in long lines for gasoline!
1,592 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Spinsterina:
Strap it up and getcher steel pot and flak jacket on citizen ‘cuz there’s incomin’ into yer perimeter!
“No…it’s about the brave & magnificent confrontation of these ladies in pink capes shrieking and disrupting the halls of power.”
You poor thing, you just defined democracy and you don’t even know it. Don’t you DARE tell me how anti-war viewpoints are to be expressed…I left a bunch a brothers rotting in a far away land who didn’t know what they were fightin’ for but I KNOW that they woulda been right behind these courageous women in pink…no they woulda been out in front of ‘em!!
Every time you open yer mouth to curse the courage of citizens who are fighting for the rights you have already abrogated you will feel the cold chill of the shadow of those brave brothers (and sisters) who gave their lives in the last war for profit and empire.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BE A GOOD GERMAN!!
Spinsterina @ 248
Cool, thanks. I’ll let you know how ‘being polite’ is going right now, in the context of thousands dead and Billions of our tax dollars stolen.
“Politeness” has gotten us years of death with no end in sight, all in your name as an American. I suppose if we give them just six more months, and work together with the Repubes, it’ll end soon, right?
The comparison to health insurance makes so much sense.
Patreous and Crockers reports really do not line up with the GAO’s and the report from the retired Generals.
Interesting that Ros-Lehtinen wants Move on to apologize for calling Patreous “Betraous”. Maybe she should start with her own apology to the Iraqi people for supporting an invasion of their country based on “a pack of lies” that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths injuries and the displace millions of Iraqi people. Maybe she should apologize for pushing hard for cutting humanitarian and all aid to the Palestinians, maybe she should apologize to the Lebanese people for supporting the illegal and immoral Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
Go first Ros-Lehtinen your crimes are far more serious than Move on Calling Patreaous “Betraous”. She has far more blood on her hands than …most
I was interested to hear all of your various reactions to my sisters in Code Pink. Everyone who tries to stand up to those in power knows how it goes.. Lots of people who actually agree with your position will say “yes, but you shouldn’t do it THAT way.” Well, we try to do it a lot of different ways, and some of them work better than others, but we never stop trying. While thousands of bloggers were spending every waking minute poring over the minutia of the Libby Case and the Lamont campaign, the members of Code Pink have been in the halls of congress and in the streets working for peace since before the invasion of Iraq. MoveOn, which is now the official “go-to anti-war quote source” for the MSM, didn’t even have a real position on the war until public opinion turned against the war!!
I for one welcome Code Pinks Voices.They have been in the halls trying, taking, communicating to congress. I believe they dress to been seen. You all know the msn doesn’t allow our voices to be heard.. They know, we know…I want their voices to be heard on c-span, I want others to ask the question”who are they and what do they stand for” by doing that more sheeple will awaken. Peace, Health and Love to them, their family and friends. And to you all out there. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have to end, look at where they have taken America, I am ashamed…