While many in the media would like to unquestioningly accept the White House narrative that General David Petraeus walks on water and that all of his claims about progress in Iraq are undoubtedly true, the fact is that Petraeus has a history of extremely bad judgment with regard to the war. In the above video, Glenn Greenwald outlines many of Petraeus’s flawed assessments that have caused fellow military officers to dub him “General Betray Us.”
It’s time for the media to cease treating his statements with open-mouthed credulity, and for politicians in both parties to stop being rolled by the elaborate PR campaign he is leading on behalf of the administration. (Think Progress has a helpful graph which shows he spent 17 days in August flacking for the surge.) The American public wants an end to the war in Iraq and it’s time that our elected officials realize that a vote for any funding bill that does not include binding timelines will only continue to bog us down in a deadly, ill-conceived endeavor which only a fool (or a knave) could think it possible to “win.”
Please sign the petition to be delivered to the Democratic leadership, which says that we do not want the dissembling and statistical manipulation being put forward by Petraeus, Crocker and others to serve as an excuse for prolonging the war. It’s time that they do their job and stand with the majority of the country to oppose this unpopular president and his fiasco of a war.
(Many thanks to David Olson who produces the BackTalk videoblogs and who dropped everything to get this ready in time for Petraeus’s testimony. You can check his previous videos out here, here and here.)
Related posts:
- Pete Hoekstra: US Shouldn’t Close Guantanamo — It’s a “Great Place”
- Gen. Ray Ordierno: We May Never Win in Iraq
- Report Confirms Poor Electrical Work by KBR Endangers US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
- In Iraq, As in So Many Contexts, Withdrawal is Victory
- Valuing Democracy: Iran, Iraq and the War Supplemental
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6
Jane!
Hey, Jane!
I swear my clock is off by at least five minutes.
Time to check on it.
Nope, it is correct.
{{{{Sweet Jane}}}}}
Even my ZED expectations have been lowered today, two more F.U.’s and the we win.
Congrats Steve-AR, but you were off by 5. *g*
and…?
Marcy’s all but predicting RGJoe will finally formally bolt the Dems over the moveon.org ad. He’s calling for the party leadership to publicly condemn moveon.org, which I can’t believe they’ll do.
“It’s time that they do their job and”
???
Steve-AR @ 1
Pretty confident, eh? I signed it Jane!!!
The Coming Iraq Extravaganza on The Hill
Bruce Ackerman:
snip
It was Maj Gen Lynch who was making the giant step into forbidden territory. He had no business engaging in a public debate with a US senator. His remarks represent an assault on the principle of civilian control – the most blatant so far during the Iraq war.
Nobody remarked on the breach. But this only makes it more troubling and should serve as prologue for the next large event in civilian-military relations: the president’s effort to manipulate General David Petraeus’s report to Congress.
Mr Bush has pushed Gen Petraeus into the foreground to shore up his badly damaged credibility. But in doing so, he has made himself a hostage. He needs the general more than the general needs him. Despite the president’s grandiose pretensions as commander-in-chief, the future of the Iraq war is up to Gen Petraeus.
Jane! Glenn! Petitions!
I expect the Republicans to be dancing to Gen. P’s tune. I do not want my party to roll over on the crap the General is spewing on behalf of Bush/Cheney. Come on Democrats, get with it!
Help get us out of Iraq now.
1. I understand why Christy or any other front-page poster would take offense at Rick Noriega’s comparison of progressive bloggers to Rush. I’d go to war over this also.
As a mere and humble commenter, I don’t give a fuck.
2. As for Code Pink: The more they piss-off people of whatever stripe, THE BETTER.
3. As for raven and james and other Viet Nam vets, my highest respect.
Over the last seven years I have seen the Democrats do more than few things I thought they’d never do.
Speaking of charts, you know Gen. Petraeus’ famous PowerPoint slide that appears to promise troop withdrawals (and ponies!) someday, without actually saying anything specific?
Here are here are a couple of must-see interpretations of it from commenters at Matt Yglesias’ place:
One from Royko, and another from cleek; both are brilliant.
And more shorter Davey
CrockettPetraeus:Hi Jane!
From my Senator Lautenberg. Love the use of the wrod propaganda.
Dear Jeff,
This week President Bush is going to unleash his latest propaganda effort to convince the American public we should stay in Iraq. In response, we need to send George W. Bush a clear message: “Enough is Enough.” Please join me and sign my online petition that calls on the President to end the deceit, end the propaganda and bring our troops home.
In the U.S. Senate I have voted consistently in favor of a timeline to bring our troops home from Iraq. But President Bush and his Republican allies in Congress have thwarted our efforts, vetoing and filibustering our proposals to end this debacle in Iraq.
Now, the Bush White House has written a slanted, self-serving and misleading report on Iraq under the guise of an official military assessment by Army General David Petraeus. The report’s findings have already been contradicted by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office.
Again, please join me in saying “Enough is Enough” to President Bush by signing my online petition. Enough of the deceit. Enough of the propaganda. It’s time to bring our troops home from Iraq.
Please sign on and I will send our petition straight to the White House.
Sincerely,
Frank R. Lautenberg
EPU’d – Check out Hillary confronting Petraeus prior to the surge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
Well gee whiz, if had known this is all would take much sooner. Perhaps I will email MM and let them know I am ready to contribute towards another ad.
I was off reading for awhile and a poster somewhere said Bush got cooked by Saddam because the amount of oil just isn’t there because (are you ready for it) Saddam was cooking the books. Can’t find it now…
Interesting though.
Bustednuckles @ 4
Wordpress is off by 3.
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
GOOD RIDDANCE…who needs the fool. Let him go.
LS @ 20
I’m not a big Hillary fan. I would prefer if she were not my candidate in 2008; but, man ain’t she one mean shark when she smells blood in the water. I would hate to come between her and the opportunity to make political hay.
signed the petition, sent it to ten friends. I left this comment, which I’d posted here this morning, but I feel even more strongly about now, having watched hours of this
charadeclusterfuck:This war started on July 25, 1990, when April Glaspie, on instructions from her boss, Secretary of State James Baker, told Saddam that disputes between Iraq and Kuwait were not the business of the USA. Since then, we’ve killed about 2,000,000, injured more, displaced twice as many, destroyed over 50% of urban dwellings, 70% of urban infrastructure, mushroomed birth defects from the detritus of our warmaking, ended the existence of the most highly educated set of females in the Middle East outside of Israel, turned almost 90% of Iraqi Christians into refugees, and destroyed the vast majority of their professional class.
Until our legislators understand this central set of facts, we are doomed to hear a succession of Petrauses and Crockers explain to agreeable or vaguely disagreeable politicians how the next few Friedman units are necessary.
I saw on a previous thread that The 1=$ for FDL. So $ to FDL.
Jonathan @ 15
Even if some of us are too dumb to figure out where to post!
Many of us would prefer “The General” to this general. How many went before this one that wouldn’t bow to the will of the admin? they were fired. some have spoken out. this one continues to lie. This one has forgotten Nuremburg.
Mon General, please, write this other general and do the voodoo that you do so well. We can’t trust anything he says as truth, knowing he has always lied. So much like the cornerstones of religiousity, you need to send them a little reminder.
I know the general reads this site. who doesn’t?
me, I can’t think of one thing that these two puppets could say that would be even potentially true. They have everything to gain from telling the truth. Their predecessors have all been fired for that.
“…Petraeus said that a unit of about 2,000 Marines will depart Iraq later this month, beginning a drawdown that would be followed in mid-December with the departure of an Army brigade numbering 3,500 to 4,000 soldiers.”
“After that, another four brigades would be withdrawn by July 2008, he said. That would leave the United States with about 130,000 troops in Iraq, roughly the number stationed there last winter when President Bush decided to dispatch additional forces.”
I signed and added the following statement:
Stop being played by the players. Get out of Iraq now. We cannot win nor can we lose what was never ours to begin with.
My $.02
Go, Girl, Go…!!! 8-)
Cripes. What a day.
Remember this song? Mr. Custer, Larry Verne.
raven @ 28
lol – does that make you dumber than a post?
{{{raven}}}
Ed*ard Teller @ 35
har hardy har!:)
ET@26
That pretty much outlines the horror of this administration’s action in the ME.
How depressing. We are the angel of death and destruction. We sow hatred where we should be sowing friendship.
How dare you lefty kooks question a military man? That is outrageous and beneath contempt.
We in the rightwing would NEVER insult a military man, unless it was George McGovern, John Kerry, Jack Murtha, Jimmy Carter, John Soltz or any of the Clinton generals that spoke out against George W. Bush.
-GSD
Signed and said enough with this cr*p (in more words than that), but ending ‘Enough with the Democratic leaders who won’t lead’ even with the country behind them pushing.
This is an absolutely hilarious video about the surge. A must see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
The lady from California has a stinger!
JH, who is the retired general who termed Petraeus “betray us”? your cite says officers [plural], but the story seems to mention one, and I can’t tell if he is anonymous, or this is referring to Lawrence Korb. any info on that?
IMHO, the MoveOn ad was a poor choice. I’d much rather have seen Larry Johnson’s questions printed. Or Juan Cole’s observations. Or Kevin Drum’s. The ad they chose to run did nothing but further the idea that they are too far left. By contrast, they might have been able to reach middle Americans by illustrating why the liberals are so angry. Instead, they caused controversy and their message is not being heard.
Thanks Jane, Glenn and David. This is a great effort, and I appreciate it. Signed and sent.
Ann in AZ @ 41
Loretta Sanchez???
I didn’t hear the end of the hearings but I did like Rep. Ackerman nailing Petraeus. Petraeus said we couldn’t leave until sectarian violence had ended but also said that sectarian violence would return once we left. When confronted by this Petraeus just blathered.
raven,
a two-part bet you can’t lose
if I lose either part, owe you a beer
first, HRC is not elected prez in 2008
second, 4 years from now there are over 100,000 American troops in Iraq
casual observer @ 42
I don’t have any links handy, but I’ve read of troops whose tours have been extended or renewed calling him that for a long time. I think I first saw mention of it late last winter.
bg @ 33
Yeah, but how would you like to be Petraeus? If there was a single shred of decency left in the man, it had to be stretched cat gut tight. The only thing that might have saved his sensibilities might be that not too many questioners (at least of the ones I watched), really held his feet to the fire. All the Republicans were their typical kow towing selves and very few Democrats seemed to ask hard questions (or at least as hard as I would like). There was an air of civility covering a fetid stench of bullshit. It was unpleasant to watch; mostly in that it should have been unpleasanter.
Whoa! Just got an e-mail from Darcy Burner. Her primary opponent, State Senator Rodney Tom, announced last Wednesday that he was dropping
out the race and enthusiastically endorsing Darcy.
The way they have been describing Iraq you would have thought that the Iraqi people were living in caves before the invasion.
Moveon did not do the anti-war cause a service by personalizing their campaign against Gen. Petraeus.
It is George W. Bush who is the perpetrator of the fraud.
Although I feel he has become a very political animal, Gen. Petraeus is doing what the military usually does.
Follow orders.
So instead of putting the focus on The Boy Blunder(Bush) the focus becomes ‘why are the lefties attacking a general’.
I don’t argue with their right to do it I argue with the effectiveness. It ultimately doesn’t serve the cause.
-GSD
No, I don’t think so, but I didn’t catch her name. She had a three fold question and each question had several parts. Part of it had to do with the recent BBC/ABC poll. Crocker said that he hadn’t seen the poll and said something that caused her to defend the poll. To paraphrase: It’s a BBC/ABC poll and I think they can count quite well. In fact, I think they can count better than some generals. Ask General Petraeus, he’ll know what I mean!
OT-Want some good news?
Olberman beat O’Reilly Friday night in the demo. He’s been trending that way for awhile and Friday, he did it.
The tide is turning.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/
solai @ 43
You have a good point
Lindy @ 50
Washington state, right? Good News!!!
solai @ 43
It’s important to remember that if they had not picked up on the MoveOn ad they would just have picked up on something else. MoveOn doing what it did was legitimate. The Republicans will always blame us and the Democrats regardless of what we say or do so I don’t understand why we should self-censor just to make their lives easier. The reason they went ballistic is because the ad hits a little too close to the truth.
There is no concept of progress in this act of agression by the USA.
We have nothing to win.
We can’t passify the sectarian violence which we have no part of.
Our presence is provoking insurgents who want us out.
There is nothing to win… but control and assured access to their oil.
We are in a steady state of continual destruction of a country, it’s infrastructure and it’s dignity.
Let’s pack uo and go and leave them a blank check to fix their country by themselves… when they want it.
GSD @ 52
Couldn’t agree more. A missed opportunity.
GSD @ 52
IMO, the volume of anti-war activity determines its effectiveness.
Move-on may have made a tactical error.
The real question is, how to build a tidal wave.
The message should be loud and clear every day from now on.
A vote for a Republican is a vote for endless war, torture, loss of civil rights, and a police state.
Oh, and have I mentioned:
Pat Tillman – 3 bullets to the forehead
Pat Tillman – 3 bullets to the forehead
Pat Tillman – 3 bullets to the forehead
Hugh @57, I’d say they hit spot on.
The one good thing about Moveon’s ad is that it instantly made “Betrayus” a household name. I swear, I have heard people accidentally or on purpose, slip it in on the teevee.
GSD @ 52
GSD, I agree with you. But I’m guessing moveon and many others who have been strongly critical of Petraeus would say that he invites strong criticism by taking the course he has.
Still, I do not personally like this betray us tack, and fear it may backfire. I’ve no problem with attacking him, but this ‘betray us’ thing is just juvenile.
It’s a fantasy to expect a military commander to report that his military has failed. That’s an oxymoron. He’ll simnply find a way to kabuki and ask for more time… they are too full of themselves.
I think they should be relieved of command for lying and wasting our blood and treasure for nothing. We can’t have a military who don’t have the sense not to fight. But we do. That’s sad.
The Ad was a good idea- but they lost most of the country by attacking the general…Even supposing that he IS an asshole- proving that is a lot to accomplish in a brief spot- and proving that he’s an asshole doesn’t have a damn thing to do with winning the war anyway.
Better to show that we’re moving backwards in Iraq.
I still think it incredibly absurd that Rep. Ros Lehtinen and Senator Lie berman demanded that MOVE On apologize.
Both Ros Lehtinen and Lieberman and others need to start apologizing for supporting the invasion of Iraq based on lies and for the hundreds of thousands of dead, injured and millions displaced. Both Ros-Lehtinen and Lieberman need to apologize for pushing legislation to cut off the Palestinian people of all aid including humanitarian aid. They also need to apologize for supporting Israels illegal invasion of Lebanon, and their continued push to pre-emptively strike Iran.
Get started Lieberman and Ros- Lehtinen you have a great deal of apologizing to do.
GSD @ 52
Petraeus is parroting the Bush line. He should be knocked down. He is not the great soldier. He is the facilitator of a failed and murderous war. Petraeus should not be doing the Republicans’ bidding and then be allowed to hide behind his uniform. I do not understand why we constantly say we need to attack, attack, attack and then when someone does say, but not now, or not that way, or not so much.
When someone lies is that not a form of betrayal?/rhetorical Q.
NBC Nightly News…
Shorter Petraeus: Stay the Course
Pretty much thumbs down ;)
Tweety just asked the ReTHUG retired colonel if Petraues was being used…
Yeah expecting the guy in charge to come in and report that he’s been a total failure is not a likely scenario. That’d be as likely as waking up and finding a million dollars hidin in yer shoe…
You’d expect him to say that he’s managed to improve things at least a little- which is about what he said..
It isn’t up to generals, of course, to decide when to start or stop a war…that’s the part that Clusterfuck’s gotten all screwed up- and most of the country blithely followed him down that rathole.
FDL commenters
Code Pink and Move-on are OK.
Not all anti-war people have the same tactics.
The objective is not internecine warfare but opposition to the enemy.
Franco @ 24
Joe Lieberman: another draft dodger, arm chair warrior (along with Rove, Cheney and others) in good standing. Go away Joe.
How could he have said anything but what he did?
He is a good soldier… like Powell… they do the deed and don’t look at the big picture and things like ethics and morality.
They are criminals when you examine what they do.
Jonathan @ 73
I agree with you.
solai @ 59
I’m in Hugh’s camp, it doesn’t matter whom or what the message is, they’ll seize upon any issue… ! All Moveon did was utilize that very same tactic; ‘…smear the Messenger!!!’ *g*
Well Joe can do as he likes- wish he’d just stay or go and quit flappin his gums about it.
The people of CT have to have buyer’s remorse. The man is repulsive.
Hugh,
Using the attack, attack, attack logic got us into the war. It was the knee-jerk “we gotta blow shit up” response.
Attacking for the sake of attacking is stupid. It was poor strategy to personalize their attack on General Petreaus. Poor strategy.
The knee jerk response is to attack General Petraeus, but in doing so it turns off many potential allies.
The proper person to attack is George W. Bush.
-GSD
solai @ 43
No matter what MoveOn does they will be attacked from the right.
And there is a poll that shows people don’t really trust what Betray Us will say.
53% in poll say Petraus Will Show Pro_bush Tilt
snip/
Asked about Petraeus’ testimony, 53 percent predict the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq will deliver “a biased report that reflects what the Bush administration wants the public to believe.” Four in 10 say it will be independent and objective.
I think he’s fair game and I support MoveOn 100% on this.
Important action item regarding predatory payday lending in Ohio.
Franco @ 71
Petraeus replaced Casey precisely because he was a big promoter of the “surge”. The dissonance comes from the propaganda blitz that has portrayed Petraeus as independent, objective, impartial. He is none of these things. Bush chose him because he is doing exactly what Bush wants, and he is doing exactly what he wants, the way he wants.
The top brass of the military are as guilty as Bush. THEY drew up the war plans. They are complicit. Sure it’s W’s policy… but they are the one’s who enabled it.
Why give the military brass a pass?
The point of spendin money on a teevee ad must be to change some minds- not to deliver a “blow” or to please those who already oppose the war.
I can’t personally see how the ad could have accomplished that.
Betrayus will stick – the RNC machine is extremely vicious. Just remember what the Swiftboaters did to Kerry. I say lob everything at them – no more softball.
There needs to be a “memorable” association for Bush and Cheney too. JMHO. I say sic ‘em bigtime.
So independent Joe would leave the Democratic party because he didn’t like an independent ad???
The surge was always just a shiny object in the first place- now we are adding to the confusion by taking up the musical question “Is the surge makin anything better?”
It’s the wrong fuckin question. Who cares? The point is still- “Is there a chance in hell of Iraq becoming a stable country in our lifetimes and how much are we willing to spend to make it happen?
Yep. The surge was just another effort to do what it did. Buy time. It has been almost a full year since the election, almost a full year.
-GSD
Shortest Petraeus: Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes. And of course the authoritarian loving Repubs can’t handle the truth so they’ll stay in lock step, close their eyes and let others sacrifice their kids. Not unlike the Germans under Hitler who couldn’t see what was under their own nose.
Hugh @ 83
Exactly, Betray-us ain’t the only political tool in the shed… can’t exclude Bergner…!!!
I don’t watch TV.
If you want to sharpen your argument to me, don’t refer to Tweety, or whoever.
Lay it out.
If it works for me, it will work for Americans.
Truth doesn’t care what color your clothes are.
Jonathan @ 15
Yup. And I just signed. :-)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 93
But ridiculous pink outfits tend to damage one’s credibility in the eyes of many in the viewing audience.
Gotta give Clusterfuck credit- the stupid ass surge has bought him at least a year…maybe two- and it was a piece of dumbshit strategy in the first place…
When ya don’t really care about the truth- there’s no limit to what you can accomplish with the American public.
Sestak on Tweety slapping down the Patraeus testimony with comparisons between Vietnam body counts and Iraq “violence” counts
GSD @ 80
70% of the American people oppose this war. An ad by MoveOn is not going to change that. Not attacking goofy policies was what got us into Iraq. It wasn’t being overly aggressive in opposition to Bush.
You say the proper target is Bush. I agree. It is also those who enable and promote his policies. To extend your logic, we should not have been critical of Gonzales and laid the mess at the DOJ where it really belonged with Bush.
If Republicans assume that we will continue to be docile and pull our punches they will continue to roll us. The Democrats should have been pushing back on Petraeus and the “surge” for the last month instead they were silent. MoveOn did something. I don’t see why only the Republicans have a right to free speech.
The word Betrayus is being repeated at a phenomenal rate by the MSM.. It is working, imo.
If it sends Lieberman packing it is a grand slam.
Wouldn’t it be great if HRC and Obama held a presser dressed in pink and started screaming their heads off about the almost 4,000 American kia’s killed in Iraq.
Drive by …
Petraeus = Westmoreland
Must read this to see the path we are approaching if the American public doesn’t wake up:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/…..11928.html
“They Thought They Were Free” re: Germans under Hitler
So will our media go with the republican mantra that we must listen to our generals & ask on all those who totally disagree with Patraeus?
rwcole @ 85
And yet we are talking about it. It gets the message out there that Petraeus is not the Second Coming. People may decry it but they will remember it as the war in Iraq continues to head south.
OT..But trashing Thugs is OK with me.
A former New Orleans prostitute who says she had an affair with Sen. David Vitter has passed a lie-detector test and will provide details of the four-month relationship at a press conference Tuesday, according to Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt.
TPM
Eureka Springs @ 99
It got traction. Watch how people accidentally say Betrayus instead of Petraeus.
Since MoveOn put out its ad, it is going to be difficult for most people to hear the name Petraeus without thinking “Betrayus”. This is a great accomplishment.
It knocks down the person that Bush was hiding behind.
Eureka Springs @ 99
..seems to be working in the media.. judging from Dems’ outraged responses to the MoveOn ad, it’s NOT working with our elected officials.
*XYZ
Suggest you look at some footage of anti-war protests from the 1960s.
The whole game is to get yourself noticed by TV.
Admiral Sestak is awesome on Hardball right now…
*xyz @ 95
I’ve mixed emotions about code pink, during my meet and greet with Mazie Hirono at the Hilo Farmers Market they were in her face, and they didn’t bother to look at her track record! She’s voted for every timeline, etc…! She knows exactly why she was elected!!!
Chris Matthew “I noticed that the charts were doctored”
Eureka Springs @ 99
We’re Framing the Issue…!!! *g*
The Emporer has no clothes, but he’s still killing people in Iraq.
where can i see ad?
Eureka Springs @ 99
I think it was a great ad for Move On to do. The thing that the Repugs used so well on Kerry was “flip-flopper.” The name stuck and so will Betray-us. People won’t forget.
Millineryman @ 81
I do too.. they’re drawing quite a bit of fire for it from within the party, though.
Harper’s: Exposing a Corrupt Prosecution and Trial in Alabama
In Oakdale Federal Detention Center in central Louisiana sits America’s most prominent political prisoner: former Alabama Governor Don E. Siegelman. He was tried, convicted and sentenced to serve 7 years and 4 months in prison. His crime? At this point, it’s reasonably clear that the crime of which he was charged and convicted, and for which he was sentenced with unprecedented severity, was being a successful Democratic candidate in a state which Karl Rove had slated for a G.O.P. makeover.
Jonathan @ 109
Isn’t screaming enough? Do they also have to dress like freaks?
valletta @ 110
And he handled the Betrayus question perfectly.
Hugh @ 98
Ruffian @ 115
is it not up at moveon.org?
Second issue up on Hardball is the Move on Add. Boy oh Boy did Move On touch a nerve.
How did Move on know what Petraeus would have to say?
*xyz @ 119
Howza about burning their bras…??? *ducking*
Blub @ 117
Good, smoke out the fence sitters and the spineless enablers who capitulate and don’t lead.
Blub @ 122
I see a print ad-I thought folks were talking a tv ad?
Blub @ 122
http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html
Eureka Springs @ 120
Sestak hits the nail on the head all of the time. He really hammered during the Retired Generals statements.
I thought it was just a print ad.. not aware they bought airtime too
Again I ask, does anybody remember how many generals the administration went through before they put Petraeus in charge of the surge? I thought several turned it down first–like 2-4.
*xyz @ 119
Yes, they do, as they feel it.
There’s a difference between argument (which is governed by logic) and protest, which is action against unreasonableness.
Code Pink is about protest.
*xyz @ 119
In the sixties, blue jeans, tee shirts and any top worn without a bra by a girl also was seen to be the mark of freaks. The point is to convey the idea that one is not afraid to buck the norm (to counter authority, and normal rules) because the cause in the end is worth it. Classic Sociological theory.
Ok so it was print & it appeared where
Poor Gen’l P.
This might do for his rep what Colin Powell’s appearance at the U.N. did for his, just that the turnaround time seems to be a lot shorter in this case.
Ann in AZ @ 130
I think you’re confusing the search for the ‘War Czar’, however, I believe a few were vetted…!!!
Blub @ 129
I saw the ad in the NYTimes. I actually thought that the headline took away from the the rest of the message but if folks want to say General Betray Us that’s okay with me.
Blub @ 129
They purchased a full page in the NYT, that’s it as far as I know.
Some good news today I see. Darcy Burner’s got a good chance. Good to see Obermann’s numbers are better than Billy O’s last Fri. Finally got to see him last night though he didn’t wax political he seemed very intelligent.
Did sign the petition, have to see about giving the adress to some friends.
Didn’t Code Pink actually go to Iraq before the invasion by our troops in an attempt to stop the war before it started?
George W. Bush is responsible for the mess we’re in. He is responsible for our dead and wounded soldiers, 1,000,000 dead Iraqis and a million more missing. He is responsible for bringing us the the brink of world war. I am not about to change my mind about that.
Ann in AZ @ 130
Commander of Multi-National Force-Iraq
Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez (ret.) June 2003-July 2004
General George Casey July 2004 to February 10, 2007
General David Petraeus February 10, 2007 to present
CTuttle @ 135
speaking of which.. whatever happened to the War Czar? He’s been conspicuously silent for months… Is Czaring really that introverted of a job?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 140
Amen. And until he’s out of office we’re not out of the woods.
Move On guy on Hardball said the page/ad cost about 70K.. all paid for by donations from people like me.
Steve-AR @ 105
More OT, but this has to be a good thing,
nothin’ like keepin’ ReThug Hypocrisy front and center as long as possible.
Now if non-ReThugs will just form a firing squad firing “right” rather than the circular one – maybe there can be hope for the US of eh? and the world……….
Wow, Why did Tweety let his journalistic tastes slip and bring Kos and Moveon into the studio…!!!
behindthefall @ 134
I agree. History will offer the unkindest cut of all to General Petreaus.
He better hope that the nickname General Custer doesn’t supplant the Moveon moniker.
-GSD
I’ve got to say this about MoveOn: great timing and way to steal a huge part of the rethug’s thunder on the general. I guess they’re good for something, after all.
Richmond @ 132
Jonathon
When I came home I didn’t get a haircut for 7 years. It wasn’t all that popular in East Central Illinois but I didn’t give a rats ass.
CTuttle @ 146
Is Kos there too?
Tweety gave mad props to Markos.
Markos scores! They always knew the surge could only be sustained until next April, so this is not new news.
Who said the surge would only last about 2 months? Anybody? I remember them saying that at some point, and I want to find that somewhere.
I should point out that Casey did not support the “surge”. Abizaid who was the CENTCOM commander (the guy in charge of both Iraq and Afghanistan) didn’t either. Surprisingly, Ray Odierno, Commander of Multi-National Corps-Iraq, was counted among the “surge” opponents and the guy he replaced Peter Chiarelli was. But one was rotating in as the other was rotating out. As it was, Odierno embraced the “surge” and has become a major cheerleader of it.
CTuttle @ 146
He’s always been against the war.
*xyz @ 150
That media op alone was worth the ad, imo.
I’ve said it before…
The powers that be could care less about any petition, or any of the sniping and griping of the netroots. Large numbers of people must hit the streets in protest if you’re serious about wanting to get their attention.
Jonathan – ditto here.
Tithonia @ 151
Okay what does Kos have to do with the ad? I’m confused.
Markos Moulatis (sp?) ripped on Hardball saying that it is ridiculous that people are focused on an add when blood is spilling in Iraq as a result of our illegal invasion. Markos is quick, on target and tells the truth. Damn he was good!
Some thought Abe Lincon was a freak. He wasn’t.
I don’t like the code pink outfits. I’m sure most here knows that everytime the media actually shows a protest, they always show the worst dressed looking people. That is how they judge things. Knowing this, why does code pink feed into their agenda?
RE Code Pink
This spring at some hearings Code Pink did their thing. We had this very same debate and I decided to email the head of CP. She told me that the person in question was a US Navy Vet and that she, the pres of CP, would never think of questioning that person’s right to expression. That was good enough for me.
CTuttle @ 146
And he commended Markos! And congratulated him for “finding the lever and pulling it. You’re moving the Democratic party!”
LS @ 154
Yep
*xyz @ 150
Yeah, Markos was great and Tweety agreed with him on everything. The Betray Us is really out there and doing its job.
Kathleen @ 159
Yes, he is always good.
cahuenga @ 156
last march i went to had a million folks-didn’t make a dent in anything.
I think the local hold their feet to the fire has better shot
Ann in AZ @ 163
Gosh.. what’s Tucker going to say?.. if this keeps up, he’s going to think that KO and Tweety are ganging up on him.
ccmask @ 161
At this point, they should move up to Code Red or Code Blue. That might be more effective. Pink isn’t tough enough for what we are up against. JMHO
Aren’t the top brass mostly republicans? What do you expect from Petreus. I would have been shocked if he gave an honest assessment of what we are into over there.
What general is going to admit he’s not a success? He was writing his own report card.
JPL @ 158
Tweety had Eli Pariser on to defend the ad, and Markos on to comment. Imagine two lefties on at one time! Is the tide turning?
raven,
do you like “City of New Orleans”
by Arlo Guthrie (written by Steve Goodman, a U. of I. alum)?
Matthews is going to have more Markos on after this. He was fawning over him, as if he were wearing a codpiece AND Aqua Velva!
The military is already in a lose -lose, war. No one in Flanders rises up shouting, “I won! I won!” War is lose – lose. The military is obsessed with winning. They should go into another profession.
I would rather MoveOn focus on Petraeus willing to be the mouth-piece of the White House. Whatever implication is there is overpowered by “General Betray”. On the other hand, The Swift Boat ads gained momentum for similar ads. I thought they would lose public support but instead they gained support.
Guess my response just doesn’t jive with the masses.
Matthews gushed all over Bush in the Mission Accomplished photo-op. It has only been with the ISG and then the “surge” that he began to be more critical of the war.
LS @ 169
that’s funny, but you’re right.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 140
Let’s not let Dick “I’m not part of the Executive Branch” Cheney off the hook – or the rest of the Gang of Four. Bush is the enabler for sure – I’m sure he did a “Let’s go do a show” thing and the rest of the crowd winked at one another and said, “sure, Junior, we’d love to help you with your little project.” I don’t know that it matters WHO put that little cabal together (goodness knows even ROVE warned Bush about taking on Cheney as his running mate), but all of those guys are responsible, with Bush right up there at the top.
lambchops @ 139
I believe they did and have been there since the the invasion. They also took supplies into the Lebanese people after Israel bombed the hell out of them.
I do think Code Pink cold take the focus off of them and focus more on the message if people in street clothes jumped up and said what they say…take the focus off of the costumes.
Jonathan @ 172
Illinois Central
Early Mornin Rail!
valletta @ 173
Hahahahahah!
valletta @ 173
A new mancrush on the LEFT!
Tweety’s got a brand new bag.
Who would you rather snuggle up with, Markos or Freddie Thompson?
-GSD
LS @ 169
Well i think there are enough Iraq vets home that we should have a new contingent called Code Camo and they can show up in their fatigues. That ought to have some gravitas.
And while we are on Arlo
words and music by Arlo Guthrie
Halfway around the world tonight
In a strange and foreign land
A soldier packs his memories
As he leaves Afghanistan
And back home they don’t know too much
There’s just no way to tell
I guess you had to be there
For to know that war was hell
Chorus:
And there won’t be any victory parades
For those that’s coming back
They’ll fly them in at midnight
And unload the body sacks
And the living will be walking down
A long and lonely road
Because nobody seems to care these days
When a soldier makes it home
They’ll say it wasn’t easy
Just another job well done
As the government in Kabul falls
To the sounds of rebel guns
And the faces of the comrades
Being blown out of the sky
Leaves you bitter with the feeling
That they didn’t have to die
Chorus
Halfway around the world tonight
In a strange and foreign land
A soldier unpacks memories
That he saved from Vietnam
Back home they didn’t know too much
There was just no way to tell
I guess you had to be there
For to know that war was hell
And there wasn’t any big parades
For those that made it back
They flew them in at midnight
And unloaded all the sacks
And the living were left walking down
A long and lonely road
Because nobody seemed to care back then
When a soldier made it home
The night is coming quickly
And the stars are on their way
As I stare into the evening
Looking for the words to say
That I saw the lonely soldier
Just a boy that’s far from home
And I saw that I was just like him
While upon this earth I roam
And there may not be any big parades
If I ever make it back
As I come home under cover
Through a world that can’t keep track
Of the heroes who have fallen
Let alone the ones who won’t
Which is why nobody seems to care
When a soldier makes it home
Tithonia, Thanks. My cable company doesn’t have MSNBC un less you pay extra.
solai @ 43
Very well put. I totally agree.
Hugh @ 175
I do remember Tweety parroting the build up…!!!
I know I’m late to the party but how was Petraeus in the hearings?
Tithonia @ 180
Well I may live to regret this but if Matthews is going to have another one of his man crushes, better Kos than Bush.
valletta @ 182
I like it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 160
Probably the only politician in heaven, about now.
Ann in AZ @ 163
Matthews has had Amy Goodman on numerous times (I really think he respects her) and Katrina from the Nation (I think she really gets under his skin) because she is smarter than him.
Joe Lieberman is the head of Code Dink. His costume is a giant p*nis head.
-GSD
Elliott @ 187
Typical Bush propagandist.
LS @ 189
now if they take to the streets-i am there!
Quakergirl,
As I see it, the U.S. would be better off if it had not pursued wars but had pursued making the lives of Americans better.
Wars, IMO, are chosen as distractions by weak presidents.
GSD @ 192
gawd, what a visual
and i thought his mug was ugly
Kathleen @ 191
Everyone is.
GSD @ 192
We called the Vietnamese Dinks.
Emptywheel, Ann in Ann Arbor and everybody else from them there parts, Can y’all quack like a Duck?
Raven and Jonathan – somewhere I have a train schedule for the City of New Orleans, it’s like reading the lyrics with arrival and departure times. The one I have is from many years ago, my lifetime though, not ante-bellum or anything….
Here’s a freak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OnWAOqZj58
My take on the code pink actions today: I do hear both sides of this argument, but frankly the anguished screams of one woman as they were dragging her out gave me chills, echoing the screams of Iraqi women, and the oppressed and voiceless everywhere. I thought of Cassandra, wailing on the wall over destruction to come. I thought it was a powerful bit.
Elliott @ 187
Well. He was predictable. It was mostly long and boring. Code Pink getting repeatedly thrown out and told by Helter Skelton that they were going to be “prosecuted” for protesting, caused all sorts of commotion…hence the discussion about them. Especially interesting considering they put LEG IRONS on the poor “poster pasters” in the DC park the other day… and Helter Skelton is a Dem for goodness sakes…a toad…an old worn out shoe…
Hugh @ 193
then I missed nothing.
thanks.
Jonathan @ 195
Note that every Repub. POTUS has to have at least one. Even if it’s Granada and a Libyan summerhouse.
lambchops @ 139
Numerous Americans were there. Many were small NGOs working to ease the hardships of our imposed sanctions. Most of these NGOs were there for ten years. They left after the invasion and moved their operation to Jordan after Margaret Hassan of CARE was kidnapped and murdered. These groups are still in Jordan and Syria working with the tens of thousands of refugee.
Code Pink appears for a photo op. I find they are a distraction. They really, really should, “Look at me. Look at me.” Not my favorite group.
you are referring to some media source that is perhaps not beholden to the corporate america and the republicans?
the republicans are worthless pieces of crap and so are some of the demcorats
their goal, their only goal is to remain in office, if they think they can get re elected by going along with the president then that’s what they will do
as far as the democrats, they’re just yellow bellied idiots afraid to do what needs to be done…which is to speak truth to these morons
I want to remind each and every democrat, whenever they call these idiotic corpporate republicans out for the liars they are opinion polls soar
Kathleen @178
I had read something a while back about them, but just did not know if I was recalling it incorrectly. Thanks. :)
I think that these people are courageous. JMO.
I had thought they wore pink because they are women and pink is the traditional color for female. Just my guess.
carolyn urban @ 201
Theater counts for a whole lot in the arena of anti-war protest.
LS @ 169
I think the pink gets more attention because it’s so kooky.
Ruffian @ 194
September 15th DC and across the country…check with ANSWER.com (or org)…for info…big protest.
Sorta OT: I’m going to be hanging IMPEACH and OUT OF IRAQ signs all over town tomorrow to commemorate 9/11. What y’all doing?
ccmask @ 161
The point is in part to shock! Remember theatre of the absurd?! Ditto in the early years of gay rights.
raven @ 183
LS @ 202
I love reading your descriptions. Helter Skelton is the perfect nom for that guy.
Babyfaced Bush lover on with Jon Soltz, VoteVets on Hardball now…
LS @ 61
Hi LS,
A few weeks ago, out of morbid curiosity, I picked up a book at the local store written by an anonymous Blackwater dude. It was full of pretty macho stuff. One phrase jumped out at me and gave me chills:
“I squeezed the trigger and gave him [the target] a triple tap to the forehead…”
it wasn’t about Tillman, but what else could I think about?
LS @ 210
In Upstate New York, our chance is Sept. 29th in Syracuse, march and rally in support of the Iraq Vets AGainst the War from Fort Drum(Watertown).
valletta @ 211
I’m with you, everything helps, even though I don’t personally think that the Impeach movement has a prayer of a chance in Hell. (Actually for me, Code Pink has more direct and lasting impact).
lambchops @ 207
Code pink is named for the terror alert rating system and is pink for compassion.
Ann in AZ @ 209
I just think it is too “little girl pink” instead of pissed off, serious, red-hot Red!!
Jonathan @ 195
You know whereof you speak. Couldn’t agree more.
Elliott @ 187
But you ARE the party Elliot.
Shocked at Pink Code?
Jesus Christ, go look at the footage, for example, of the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.
LS @ 220
If they wear red they would be accused of allying with Rudy the Red and would be thrown in jail as communist sympathizers. (or am I dating myself —–).
Richmond @ 218
I see what you mean but if you recall when the Nixon impeachment movement began it wasn’t about Watergate per se but rather lying about Cambodia and other war lies which came to the light with the Pentagon Papers. The investigation just kept growing and Watergate was the last straw.
Impeachment hearings should begin just so we can shed light on all the things we DON’T know about. Something will stick….
Soltz rocks, Hegseth, Sux!!!
Jonathan @ 223
Hey, I’m in this picture in front of the White House! Winter Soldier
Red is a color associated with sex. Pink is a color associated with girliness, a much demeaned color. What I thought was great was that the moment that the threat of prosecution was raised by anyone else daring to disrupt the hearing, another “lady in pink” stood the fuck up and started shouting.
do-si-do @ 216
Wow. There is a term for that 3-shot grouping. It is a known tactic. Blackwater is one of my main hackle triggers. Grrrrrrrrr…snort..grrr
Quaker Girl @205
I did not know about all of the help being given to the refugees. I am glad there are such caring people doing this hard work. Thank you for answering my question. :)
valletta @ 225
The Pentagon Papers had nothing to do with Cambodia.
valletta @ 225
This may grow too, but the issue in my view is separate from the war, which alas, the Dems are as involved with as the Rethugs. Far too many of them (proded in part by the DLC want this war to keep going and going). Impeaching Bush is not going to press them to address this issue.
raven @ 227
Uh huh. You can’t just leave it there, raven. Which one are you?
ccmask @ 161
I can’t help but think of TRex’s awesome “Fascist Week” post of the other night…I hear deep berry is THE color for kevlar this season…hides the blood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMfRHbZ3dO4
Great day for America!!!!
Please keep smearin’ Patreaus in front of the American public!!!
Keep Movin’on’dot’org with the “Betray Us” routine!!!! Boy, that is money well spent……for your oppenents!!!!!!!
You guys are not only funny but are killin’ yourselves!!!!! Please keep it up…..I’m lovin’ it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will sleep very soundly tonight as you angry, bitter, self-absorbed people share posts in this pathetic echo chamber.
What a great day for General Patreaus, our troops, and our potential for victory in this very serious war.
Thanks folks!
Teeheeman
The idea isn’t the color pink.
It’s getting media attention.
Protest isn’t about logic, PC correctness, or anything else.
It’s about getting your message across.
Millineryman @ 222
you’re cute!
valletta @ 182
Code Camo like it
Matthews is pounding tonight. He saw too much at Walter Reed that made his stomach turn, and he has obviously been irate with the neo-cons. Kristol and others do not seem to come on his program any longer. Wonder why?
LS @ 229
Blackwater had an impact here on the Big Isle, ex-ranger SFC Batalona was a local boy, he was one of them strung up…!!! 8-(
carolyn urban @ 233
No shirt
do-si-do @ 216
Yikes. Back when there was a thread about Tillman, I was involved in a little tinfoil stuff about who might have driven up in that vehicle … Bl*ckw*t*r came up. That quote makes it seem almost likely. I have heard about “double taps” in military practice; is it known whether this “triple tap” has been adopted by the ‘b’organization as a trademark: “We do the Army one better!” or some such ridiculousness?
raven @ 240
Where’s my cigar?
Waaaay OT, but just in case anyone is interested the NDIL USAttorney’s office just won a huge victory in the big “family secrets” Chicago Outfit mob trial. 18 murder convictions, racketeering conspiracy …. guilty on all counts.
Here’s a good local news report (video):
http://cltv.trb.com/
(choose mob trial: guilty verdict)
Because there is still a gag order, no presser from the USAttorney or defense. Although… Fitzgerald has been gone/OOT for almost a month now, I am told. First AUSA Gary Shapiro will probably do the honors tomorrow, as he has done here in Chicago so often during the Libby case and throughout this summer. He ought to have a field day with this one. *g*
raven @ 240
You certainly were, and probably are, good looking. :) :)
Jonathan @ 223
Chicago
via ES
Great photo.
raven @ 231
The Pentagon Papers were the first time raven @ 231
The Pentagon Papers had nothing to do with Cambodia.
Bustednuckles @ 242
I found that almost 35 years to the day, I never knew it existed till they released the movie.
raven @ 241
Blondie…???
raven @ 240
wo-wo-wo-wo!! raining men indeed!
valletta @ 247
You are right.
RIP
Oscar-winner Jane Wyman dead at 93
http://afp.google.com/article/…..5Ymnjl1-Rw
LS @229
Me too. This Blackwater book was so over the top macho, he-man, crapola with bonus pix of hunting and posing and smiling over dead people. Valor is the last word I would use to describe mercenaries.
very sickening.
needless to say, i threw the book back on the table. with a snort and a grimace.
Matthews is hitting it out of the ball park tonight “in other words this is a complete waste of blood”
Looks like there was a special price on bulk purchases of exclamation points.
I didn’t get a chance to read the live blog or watch the testimony but rachael maddow mentioned something that is indeed frightening and I am wondering if it was brought up here at the lake;
one of our critters asked if petraus would obey congress or the president if congress passed funding that could only be appropriated for getting our soldiers home
petraous actually said he would have to consult his lawyer
is everyone all over that?
Bustednuckles @ 253
the original Mrs. Reagan.
Elliott @ 245
Your link.
Too hard to watch.
Thanks.
Elliott @ 245
Great footage in that video.
1,592 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
The war against American fascism and the occupation of Iraq jest took a HUGE leap forward today when a bunch a courageous women in pink outfits made a burlesque mockery of the Patreaus Report to Congress.
Make no mistake about it, no matter how the shills and corporate mouthpieces try and characterize Code Pink, their actions in callin’ “bullshit” on the whole kabuki dance will travel to every livingroom in the country and 70% of those watchin’ agree with the demonstrators.
There is no turnin’ back now “liberals”, you either grow the balls ta stand up and get the backs of these wonderful folks or you putcher tails back between yer legs and crawl back under the bridge…for the first time in a generation you “liberal” do gooders are bein’ called out, you got a chance ta make up for the surrender of your “liberal” parents in 1968.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IF YA DON’T HAVE THE BALLS FOR IT DONATE SOME MONEY AND GET THE HELL OUTTA THE WAY!!
Oh, and since Glenn Greenwald is the lead on this thread do read his book A Tragic Legacy, it’s awesome.
Buchanan calls it a big win for Bush and Im afraid he’s right. the only thing that will stop him is impeachment.
LoudounLib @ 260
Eureka posted it before, incredible isn’t it!
Hi LL!
Hey is anyone watching Cspan House of Rep. right now….the GOP is apparently on the war path with Moveon.org’s recent add in The New York Times…
something about Petraeus or Betray us?…
I believe I heard a couple amens scattered in this tirade….
Will check back later….
NorskeFlamethrower @ 261
Norske, you are so right on.
lambchops @ 230
You may want to check out Raed Jarrar who is working with Iraqi refugees.
http://www.afsc.org/iraq/r-jarrar-bio.htm
Also, Noah Merrill
http://www.afsc.org/iraq/noah-and natalie-bio.htm
They are on a lecture tour in the US at the moment to give us a first hand account of the refugee situation. This is a totally different perspective from the military.
hi Elliott!
snowbird42 @ 263
Screw Buchanon. He has been so wrong about so many things. Don’t make me go shop for his errors………
Is anyone watching the house? Three Southern Reps. are trashing Move On for the Petreus add this morning. Oops, now its four. They are calling for a loyalty oath in the form of denouncing the ‘Petraeus or Betray Us?’ ad. They are really getting wound up. Good opportunity for Dems. to fight back by reading some of the text of the ad. Now from Virginia Foxx: According to all the evidence “Things are going soooo much better.” I guess they are off the loyalty oath for the moment. I guess I tuned in for nightly animal house. Foxx, “We have asked the Iraqiis to adopt democracy. They are doing so good at the local and regional level. We are going to bring this light to the whole world, one village at a time.” Whooo she is good. She’s all: “If you can find a better place to live, just go there and live.” This last part twice. The Georgia raver back up. Gotta watch this.
ccmask @ 269
he’s right about pitches and torchforks
raven at #183:
So is there a link to Arlo’s song? A YouTube? A video?
this is really a must read
one of the authors of “the path to 9/11 is under gag order not to discuss his issues with the movie but he defies the gag order as any patriot would
you really have to get a read of that entire article
jc inOR @ 270
Let us know when a Dem steps up and says “sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me!”
waa waa
Billy Woods @ 236
may you wake up in downtown Baghdad
new thread upstairs
Ann in AZ @ 272
There is only one on youtube and it seems to be a cell phone vid mixed in with some other stuffYoutube
It is on his My Space
Quaker Girl @ 267
Thanks for the links! I will bookmark them and read them later tonight.
I have learned so much from you and all the other firedogs here in the lake. I’m not much for jumping into the water, but today, well, today I just needed to connect with those I read everyday. Thank you so much :)
PW’s here with a new thread
she’s ticked off too
ccmask @ 269
Buchanan! I remember decaces ago, he was with Paul Krasner or Abby Hoffman on the Sunday talking heads (well maybe some were heads). Anyway this was in the days of the Contra wars, and Buchannan was quoting “La Prensa” from Managua. His antagonist said “La Prensa? That’s the newspaper with front page stories like the woman who gave birth to a chicken.” Pat grew a couple more chins.
Frank Rich coming up on KO!
Hugh @ 57
I am proud to be a supporter of MoveOn and applaud their work and proudly intend to continue to help them fund their work.
LS @ 63
When I hear the way some callers on Washington Journal mangle the names of politicians, there’s gonna be a lot of people across the country using the “B” word. ;-)
Buchanan was against the invasion.
Great news, jjk @ 244. Impressive. Thanks for the detailed information. I’m very glad to see some long overdue progress in Chicago on that ugly front.
Nice video, Glenn. Needs more bite. Too much talking head.
I admire GG and most certainly agree with the message of the video. But the vid is embarrassingly shoddy production work.
No excuse for that. None.
Excellent vidi,
It is time to rally the people who desire
Peace.
It is sad and painful to watch the well meaning, and actively involved people in the online left slowly but surely discover that their immense faith in the Democratic party has been mis-placed. Unfortunately what is particularly sad about it, is that the momentum of their misplaced support ensures the continuation of the overall policy of this country well into the next decade. The ‘discovery’ that the democrats and the republicans are tweedledum and tweedledy comes to late.
It is unfortunate that most people, left, right, center or fringe simply do not think that deeply or that carefully before they act.
The ameriican poltical system is predicated on the idea that the mass of people will generally steer toward ‘the correct’ direction. This is an obvious absurdity if you imagine that it is universally correct. We are living through an example of how it goes wrong.
The basic idea of being a wise ruler is to be able to look outside of your own narrow self interest and act in the common good. The basic idea of democracy is that the people are the rulers, therefore… if the people have no ability to look outside of their own narrow self interest… the country will be badly ruled.
Translation: The political parties are not driving what is going on, therefore an excessive faith in their ability to fix things is misplaced. ‘The media’ is not driving what is going on, therefore an excessive blame in that direction is erroneous, leading to further fuck ups.
We live in an approximately free market system, so anyone who tries to sell the public something they don’t want to buy (the truth for example) ends up losing their shirts. If fox news is the most popular, and more importantly money making, news show, then other news shows will copy them. This is econ 101 folks, stop blaming the media.
The big, big problem is that absolutely every voice in the ‘discussion’ is required to never say what is really true, because the population is dominated by weak individuals who cannot stand the truth — that this debacle is their fault. We are to blame for what has become of our country, we are to blame for the poor quality of information in our media (because we continue to buy it up at prodigious rates), we are too blame for the pathetic political parties because… we continue to support them.
You really want to make a difference? Stop listening to TV News, stop reading Fiedman, Hewitt, and … stop responding to their absurdity — they thrive on attention, that is all they need or want more eyeballs, and the consequent money. The ‘DC establishment’ is successful because… people keep watching and reading and talking about what they say and do. They are fools, we all know it, get over it.
Finally… face facts: This situation is precisely the same as the cold war, held together by precisely the same web of inter-locking self interest that in no way is in the general interest. The situation we are in is a self sustaining con (like the War on Drugs) which satisfies the needs of all of the individual players, including the vocal opposition, while never in fact satisfying the needs of the group as whole. In fact, like the war on drugs and the cold war, it is a death spiral for the group as whole, even as it satisfies the needs of enough self interests (if you’ll forgive the expression) that it cannot be stopped…
Until people grow up, become wise leaders and choose the good of the group over their own narrow self interest.
Good Night and Good Luck
The guitar background was a huge mistake; it’s distracting, even irritating to the point of being maddening.
I realize time and money were short, but a far, far more effective video would have been to include clips of Petraeus uttering the ’success’ statements.
This video made me long to read a transcript rather than have to be subjected to the Greenwald-vs-baseline contest for another minute.
It’s funny how liberals are the only people who ever seem to actually believe that there’s no difference between the two parties. Conservatives nod and smile at this as if in agreement, and then go vote for the GOP anyway while liberals are sitting at home telling themselves how smart they are.
Idiots.