Biden says he’s ‘honorable’. I guess that word means just what Biden intends it to mean.

oooo

LHP!

Seems to me, though, that if Congress does nothing about the lies they get, there’s not much consequences in lying to them.

*looks severely at congress*

yes, yes, I know, that doesn’t work… :: sigh ::

Does he think his chest full of ribbons entitles him to attempt to perpetrate a fraud upon the Congress and people of the United States?

And testosterone. Brody seems to think testosterone is key in the war on terra.

Gettim, LHP. I am sick to my stomach watching the Sunday shows.

uh-HUH! LHP!

Republicans have decided that truth is a outdated concept for non-visionary minds, and doesn’t help promote the Permanent Republican Majority (not to mention being related to that whole Enlighenment thing that got people away from good ol’ theocratic control).

So General MacArthur, er, um Petraeus will no doubt be telling Truth 2.0 (also known as “providing cover for tour extensions”). In his mind, he won’t be breaking any laws, just holding things to a ‘higher’ (and richer) standard.

Mc Cain just explained that Petraeus is Creighton Abrams not William Westmoreland and we need “peace with honor”.

Seems that the facts about the surge are pretty clear. Security has improved in Baghdad- and the surge probably was at least partly responsible..Things are worse in many other areas..

Anbar is better- but not because of the surge.

US troop deaths are up>

No one knows about Iraqi deaths

There is about zero political progress.

There will be lots of arguing about the details but that seems to be the main conclusion.

The surge CANNOT be sustained past March- no matter what- so there is no debate possible about that either.

As long as it is going on- it gives Bush something to point to. After March- he will lose his “Ace in the hole” but he will have gained 15 months with it…

If you evaluate the “surge” in terms of it’s TRUE purpose, to buy time, it was a GREAT success.

Good morning loosehead! Hope Littleprop is having a terrific birthday extravaganza.

Just make sure you don’t call him “General Betrayus” or you’ll hurt the Democrats. Cokie said so.

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

Seems that the facts about the surge are pretty clear. Security has improved in Baghdad- and the surge probably was at least partly responsible..Things are worse in many other areas..

Rwcole, from what I’ve read, the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad’s Sunnis is largely responsible. So the surge may be indirectly responsible, by allowing the Shiite militias and police (is there a difference?) to carry it out. But that’s hardly anything for Petraeus to boast about.

Riesz Fischer @ 10

Just make sure you don’t call him “General Betrayus” or you’ll hurt the Democrats. Cokie said so.

Mc Cain too.

peanutbutter @ 3

LHP!

Seems to me, though, that if Congress does nothing about the lies they get, there’s not much consequences in lying to them.

*looks severely at congress*

yes, yes, I know, that doesn’t work… :: sigh ::

one thing we can do is to watch the hearings and document the atrocities ourselves.

petraeus and crocker will be testifying in three committee hearings this week (click on my name for the details):

Monday, 12:30 pm – Joint Hearing, House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs
Tuesday, 9:30 am – Senate Committee on Foreign Relations
Tuesday, 2 pm – Senate Committee on Armed Services

I don’t think it is littleprop’s birthday this weekend — I believe her birthday is later in the year. Just FYI…

Thanks much for this post, LHP!

OT – doesn’t the fact that there is such vociferous argument as to whether or not the Surge is working, with accompanying statistics and factual back-up presented by each point of view, indicate that, even if it *is* working, it must not be doing so in any significant way and is not worth continuing?

sorry for the OT – carry on.

I love this post, looseheadprop!

Petraeus knows what is expected of him and, like Colin Powell, will be a good soldier.

Patreaus’s insubordination should give rise to his court marshal, loss of all pension benefits and brig time.

He is so smug today because he has the support of the Neocon/ Fascists.

Patreaus, and the rest of that cabal should give some thought to the next administration when the indictments, war crime trials and court marshals will become a prime policy directive as a means for justice and accountability for this worse US foreign policy disaster ever.

I suspect that General Petraeus will say that the level of success the surge has achieved is such that it allow us to bring a significant number of troops home. And that’s simply the white lie of pitching a bug as a feature.

From WWII came the saying: “Amateurs worry about strategy.’Professionals worry about ‘logistics.’ ” Fred Kaplan, the military editor for Slate, states the logistical facts of life in Iraq in crisp military prose:

The long and short of it is that by next spring some of the 20 U.S. combat brigades currently in Iraq — perhaps as many as a quarter to a half of them — will be pulling out, and nobody will replace them. his is a mathematical fact, quite apart from anything to do with the upcoming election or the war’s diminishing popularity.

Whether or not you regard this fact as lamentable, President Bush only makes things worse by howling that any pullback would erode American power and embolden the terrorists. Even if his warning is true, for a president to state it so urgently, over and over and over and over, deepens the damage when the storm hits.

There you have it, and it has nothing to do with how well the surge worked or how well Petraeus says it worked.

Bush made a self-defeating decision when he attempted to militarily impose on Iraq a stable democratic government allied with the U.S. in the Global War on Terror. The numbers underscore the fact that he has been defeated relative to that goal.

The only remaining question is whether or not he will attempt to hang onto the six or so megabases we’ve built in Iraq.

egregious @ 9

Good morning loosehead! Hope Littleprop is having a terrific birthday extravaganza.

Happy Birthday Littleprop!

edited: *nevermind*

General, I beseech you, and I hope you see this essay before you testify, please please please put honor, integrity and truth ahead of blind loyalty to your Commander in Chief.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

If Petraeus had any integrity, he would not have taken on the position of chief implementer of the “surge” in an already failed war.

Petraeus has a history of seeing the truth his way. A few years ago, Petraeus was training Iraqi troops and saying how much great progress he was making doing so. If this were true, where are those troops now?

As for honor, the way it is being used nowadays, it is really nothing more than cheap political humbug, which in an ironical kind of way fits Petraeus perfectly.

LHP, has any President ever been charged with or prosecuted for lying to Congress in the SOTU? How would such charges be filed and who is responsible for pursuing them? (Note, I am praying here that you don’t tell me the answer to that question is Congress ;)

Also, lets say Petraeus gets up there for his dog and pony show and lets loose with a few whoppers. How exactly would charges be filed and by whom? I suspect we will be subject to witnessing more dithering on the part of the Congressional committees (i.e., all talk, no action) that we’ve seen related to the DoJ inquiries, but I’m hoping I’m wrong about that.

I, for one, have no reason to think that Patraeus is anything but an honorable man. He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

With the recent exodus of so many high-placed administration offficials, I would like to know who has orchestrated the latest PR offensive for the war in Iraq. I wonder whether this function has been outsourced to former members of the administration that can work far more efficiently without the bright light of public scrutiny. And if the PR campaign has been “privatized”, who is paying for it?

Riesz Fischer @ 10

Just make sure you don’t call him “General Betrayus” or you’ll hurt the Democrats. Cokie said so.

Of course, Cokie is a very serious person who wants nothing more than to help the Democrats. That’s why she repeats Republican talking points on the air every Sunday.

rwcole @ 23

I, for one, have no reason to think that Patraeus is anything but an honorable man. He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

The troops coming home in body bags are doing so personally.

I have an old volume by the title of “Voltaire’s Bastards,” by John Ralston Saul. In it he describes the “general staff” principle that has come to dominate western society: whoever has the largest general staff, with the most pages of reports, wins. The critical point being you do not get on or move up the general staff by rocking the status quo. And so it goes.

He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

With all due respect, that is *precisely* the reason to attack him – IF he is putting the lives of his soldiers at risk for no good reason. It is not his job to “spin”.

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

Hugh @ 21

General, I beseech you, and I hope you see this essay before you testify, please please please put honor, integrity and truth ahead of blind loyalty to your Commander in Chief.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

If Petraeus had any integrity, he would not have taken on the position of chief implementer of the “surge” in an already failed war.

Petraeus has a history of seeing the truth his way. A few years ago, Petraeus was training Iraqi troops and saying how much great progress he was making doing so. If this were true, where are those troops now?

As for honor, the way it is being used nowadays, it is really nothing more than cheap political humbug, which in an ironical kind of way fits Petraeus perfectly.

Agreed. If there was any chance in the world that he might contradict the Chimpenfuhrer, he would never have gotten the job in the first place. Funny how all the generals with differing opinions from the WH narrative have retired, eh?

Troops levels will scale back from 160K to 130K in March or so- because there aren’t enough troops to sustain current levels. Bush may pull out a few more as the election gets closer to buy some breathing space for Goopers–which will happen with a “we’re doin SO well we can afford a draw down.”

We’ll still have at least 100,000 troops in Iraq when Clusterfuck sails into the sunset.

Somewhere between 9 and 18 months ago, I heard an Al Franken show on Air America, and Al was positively gushing over Petraeus – “He’s one of the good guys!” He told an anecdote about Petraeus’ early deployment in Iraq that seemed to put Petraeus in a good light – cutting some red tape that enabled an Iraqi official to cut paychecks for his employees.

I have no idea if the story is true or just Pantagon BS. I don’t get to listen to Franken’s show much – Has he had anything to say about Petraeus recently?

undecided @ 24

With the recent exodus of so many high-placed administration offficials, I would like to know who has orchestrated the latest PR offensive for the war in Iraq. I wonder whether this function has been outsourced to former members of the administration that can work far more efficiently without the bright light of public scrutiny. And if the PR campaign has been “privatized”, who is paying for it?

From what I’ve been reading over at TNH, Gillespie appears to be the go-to guy these days. And conveniently enough he is tight with K Street. Coincidence? I think not.

rwcole @ 31

Troops levels will scale back from 160K to 130K in March or so- because there aren’t enough troops to sustain current levels. Bush may pull out a few more as the election gets closer to buy some breathing space for Goopers–which will happen with a “we’re doin SO well we can afford a draw down.”

We’ll still have at least 100,000 troops in Iraq when Clusterfuck sails into the sunset.

And when it all falls apart it will be Clinton’s fault.

I DREAD the coming weeks; things are gonna get *real* nasty and, as somebody said downstairs, the dims have been out to lunch the last month while the bushco p.r. campaign has been in full voice.

Grrrrrrrrrrr….

Dumbya @ 11 -

If this comes down the pike, a fight about whether the surge is or isn’t working is gonna be way down the priority list. :-(

selise @ 14-

You might want to add to your notes for anyone who can’t listen to the original version, C-Span says it will rerun them at 10:00 p.m. – don’t remember whether on 1 or 2.

phred,

Yes, I want to know much more about Gillespie.

rwcole @ 23

I, for one, have no reason to think that Patraeus is anything but an honorable man. He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

is this the act of an honorable man?

and no, his job is to tell the truth – especially when he takes an oath to do so.

It was never about the oil, you FDHs.

Waccamaw @ 35

You might want to add to your notes for anyone who can’t listen to the original version, C-Span says it will rerun them at 10:00 p.m. – don’t remember whether on 1 or 2.

good idea… do you have a link i could use?

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

Here’s a Kos diary in reply.

What does it matter what Petraeus says? The Democrats couldn’t muster the will to do anything about it even if he says the surge has failed.

The alcoholic lies constantly to himself and others as his defense mechanisms, attempt to continue his dysfunction. The short sighted search and perceived perpetuation of pleasure from the “high” is replaced eventually by the reality of premature death.

Such is the sad reality of our instilled addiction to oil as a source of fuel for our on-demand mobility and appurtenant freedoms. The rule of law, international and domestic is ignored when our demand for energy rich crude is concerned.

Ask the Iraqi “oil worker” or an American “coal worker” what they have in common, and the “motivations” of people who lie?

rwcole @ 23

I, for one, have no reason to think that Patraeus is anything but an honorable man. He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

I think that Patraeus is an honorable man in the way I described above. Just because he wears a uniform doesn’t make him exempt from the criticism that he has been a crass and dishonest enabler and promoter of a failed President and a failed war.

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 40

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

Here’s a Kos diary in reply.

I did not have the level of expertise on this but it smelled funny. Not that it couldn’t happen, just that report.

Consequences for lying to Congress? Ha! It is to laugh.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall seeing anybody who lied, misrepresented, conveniently forgot well-known facts, or just decided not to show up for their hearing be hauled off in irons to the local hoosegow. The only contempt I see here is the contempt for those of us who want Congress to quit kissing the collective ass of the Bush administration.

cahuenga @ 42

What does it matter what Petraeus says? The Democrats couldn’t muster the will to do anything about it even if he says the surge has failed.

Yep. 80% of the Senate Democrats went along with Bush last time he asked for more money just a few months ago. I don’t see how it’s going to be any different this time.

Steve-AR @ 30

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

The degree to which “Homeland Security” grates on my nerves makes fingernails down a blackboard positively soothing in contrast.

I couldn’t have come up with a name more alien to the principles that this country was founded on.

Where integrity is concerned, this administration has none. That is an unfortunate fact that they have proven, time and again. When a lie is an expedient means to an end, a lie will be told. When a distortion of history can make a failed policy seem somehow ok, then history will be distorted and no apologies necessary — never look back, never say you are sorry.

THAT is the nature of these people and, consequently, it is the nature of the thralls they bring in tow. Patraeus is no different. As Hugh said, if he had any honor, he would have turned down the job as many others did.

So I only expect the administration and their lackies to behave as they always have; and, for one solid reason: they can get away with it.

At no point has anyone severly held their feet to the fire with any sort of repremand, reprisal or retribution for failed policy or even absolute criminal activity. The Scooter Libby trail was an exercise in how to finally circumvent the rules of end game and simply say that the rules don’t apply. Nancy Pelosi took “Impeachment off the table” at the FIRST available opportunity.

I’m sorry to by cynical on a beautiful Sunday morning, but I think even those factions of Congress that are finally waking up to make an effort at oversight are just severely over matched by the juggernaut that is this administration’s ability to just out and out get away with any damn thing they want.

spaghetti happens @ 46

Consequences for lying to Congress? Ha! It is to laugh.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall seeing anybody who lied, misrepresented, conveniently forgot well-known facts, or just decided not to show up for their hearing be hauled off in irons to the local hoosegow. The only contempt I see here is the contempt for those of us who want Congress to quit kissing the collective ass of the Bush administration.

Ain’t that the sad pathetic truth.

DrenchedOtter @ 47

Yep. 80% of the Senate Democrats went along with Bush last time he asked for more money just a few months ago. I don’t see how it’s going to be any different this time.

As I wrote a week or so ago, the Democratic strategy is clear:

They will give Bush everything he wants but they will feel bad about it.

What does “honorable” mean?

I’m not sure what to think about P until I know the definition.

Honest?

Committed to do the right thing?

Who determines what the right thing is?

Hugh @ 44

rwcole @ 23

I, for one, have no reason to think that Patraeus is anything but an honorable man. He WILL, of course, try to spin the facts in the direction of continuing the effort- that’s his job.

I have no reason to attack the man personally.

I think that Patraeus is an honorable man in the way I described above. Just because he wears a uniform doesn’t make him exempt from the criticism that he has been a crass and dishonest enabler and promoter of a failed President and a failed war.

It is hard to make a pig anything but a pig even with all the lipstick in the world. George gave Petraeus a pretty wild pig.

Hey Cokie and McPain,

This is for you…

GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS

[I feel just like the infantile Chimperor when I do things like this]

Noonan posted this link in the last thread. It’s to an article that quotes a recent letter from Petraeus to his troops stating that the surge hasn’t worked. Every member of congress should come prepared with a copy of that letter.

Here is a link to the text of Petraeus’ letter of Friday 9/7/07 to U.S. troops.

The summary of “modest security gains in Baghdad but no substantial political improvement” appears to be about right..When Patraeus says “it’s working”- he’s talking about the security improvement- when he says it’s not- he’s talking about the political situation.

selise @ 40

Waccamaw @ 35

You might want to add to your notes for anyone who can’t listen to the original version, C-Span says it will rerun them at 10:00 p.m. – don’t remember whether on 1 or 2.

good idea… do you have a link i could use?

Sorry, no. Just heard it mentioned on Wash Journo several times.

James Joyce -

Did you see the note I left for you earlier today?

Speculating on what Petraeus might or might not say is all we can do at the moment. Everyone including Bushwhackeroff is going to have to wait for the report. Then everyone can go into a tizzy.

Well put, lhp.

spaghetti happens @ 45

Consequences for lying to Congress? Ha! It is to laugh.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall seeing anybody who lied, misrepresented, conveniently forgot well-known facts, or just decided not to show up for their hearing be hauled off in irons to the local hoosegow. The only contempt I see here is the contempt for those of us who want Congress to quit kissing the collective ass of the Bush administration.

Indeed. To expand on that a bit, remember Harriet Miers NOT appearing before Congress in response to a duly-issued Congressional subpoena to do so? Or Josh Bolten NOT appearing before Congress in response to a duly-issued Congressional subpoena to do so? Oh, say, more than a month ago now…

Yup – Miers and Bolten told Congress to stuff its little subpoenas, and so far Nancy Pelosi has said “okay” in response. Meaning that the House Judiciary Committee under John Conyers voted out resolutions of Contempt of Congress to the full House before the August recess, and the House leadership has been sitting on them ever since.

No House vote on contempt to enforce its own subpoenas and to stop this ugly, unConstitutional precedent in its tracks, and thus no kick-start of the process in the DC Office of the US Attorney (to force the White House’s hand and begin any necessary legal proceedings) nor any murmur of an Inherent Contempt proceeding to bypass the U.S. Attorney altogether, from the benighted leadersheep of our House of Representatives. Has any reporter even asked a single question about this, in a press conference (if any) held by these “leaders” this week?

[We know the citizens (as opposed to the campaign funders) of her district haven’t asked any such questions in Nancy Pelosi’s presence, because she hasn’t held a single public town meeting there for a year and a half:

http://www.commondreams.org/ar.....9/05/3621/

That Medea Benjamin account of Pelosi’s comments to the protestors outside her home is not to be missed.]

No contempt vote before August. No contempt vote after they returned to Washington last week. And, now, no contempt vote this coming week either. Why? Because the House of Representatives will be in nothing but pro forma session all this week: not in session at all on Wednesday and Thursday (in observance of Rosh Hashanah), voting only on suspension calendar non-controversial matters on Monday, and mostly out of session completely on Tuesday and Friday.

Duty, honor, country. There’s no money in that, and no glory or fame (except among the people) in denouncing our de facto King – so General Petraeus and Nancy Pelosi have other priorities.

kdh22 @ 54

Hey Cokie and McPain,

This is for you…

GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS

[I feel just like the infantile Chimperor when I do things like this]

Personally, I think that General ‘Delay Us’ is a more apt term.

AZ Matt @ 58

Speculating on what Petraeus might or might not say is all we can do at the moment. Everyone including Bushwhackeroff is going to have to wait for the report. Then everyone can go into a tizzy.

I disagree. Betrayus has already been told what to say and how to say it. Parsing words is the only ‘honor’ that he will display.

Patraeus may be the world’s biggest asshole- or he may be a totally honorable man- I have no idea..

Should he have refused his job?

That’s an interesting question. If he really believes that he is the best choice to do it- and that he could save lives in the long run- then I suppose he should accept it. Someone was going to do it- and if that someone was less competent- then more would die- and the thing might drag on longer..

Tough decision.

Don’t know what I would do under those circumstances.

rwcole @ 62

Patraeus may be the world’s biggest asshole- or he may be a totally honorable man- I have no idea..

Should he have refused his job?

That’s an interesting question. If he really believes that he is the best choice to do it- and that he could save lives in the long run- then I suppose he should accept it. Someone was going to do it- and if that someone was less competent- then more would die- and the thing might drag on longer..

Tough decision.

Don’t know what I would do under those circumstances.

He got paid.

I read somewhere this morning that Patraeus has political ambitions…If he lets those ambitions get in the way of doing his job- then he is certainly less than honorable. I don’t know if he has, but the possibility is there.

Hi sorry, late to the thread, was driving to the office (yes I a working BOTH days this weekend–big self pitying sigh)

Anyway will catch up on thread now.

Glad you’re all here

egregious @ 9

Good morning loosehead! Hope Littleprop is having a terrific birthday extravaganza.

My comment about Littleprop an weekend long birthday’s was generic, but somehow everybody (not just you) took it mean that I was referring to THIS weekend.

She’s a Christmas baby.

pow wow @ 58

…Duty, honor, country. There’s no money in that, and no glory or fame (except among the people) in denouncing our de facto King – so General Petraeus and Nancy Pelosi have other priorities.

Well put. Patraeus IS the new bright shiny object of the moment. He is the personification of the bright and shiny simply because he will do what is expected, say what is scripted, and lay the smokescreen as it has been planned.

The best thing for the blogosphere to do as a whole (in shallow hope of affecting the MSM at large) is to completely and decidedly drop the Petraeus meme — the report is a joke, state that unequivocally and return to reporting on the sever lack of oversight or the impending military activity in Iran. The bright shiny Petraeus is just another pawn in the media game. The blogosphere needs to be the controlling faction that does not get suckered by that tired old gambit because the MSM is already gone.

solai @ 60

kdh22 @ 54

Hey Cokie and McPain,

This is for you…

GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS GENERAL BETRAYUS

[I feel just like the infantile Chimperor when I do things like this]

Personally, I think that General ‘Delay Us’ is a more apt term.

Not if you’re the poor s.o.b. who gets blown up during the delay. That’s a betrayal and dereliction of duty. I’m stickin’ with Betrayus. Or perhaps I should spell that BetrayU.S. since his loyalty is to his king, not his country.

Loosehead—

Ooops :)
Well, merry Christmas, anyway.

wigwam @ 55

Noonan posted this link in the last thread. It’s to an article that quotes a recent letter from Petraeus to his troops stating that the surge hasn’t worked. Every member of congress should come prepared with a copy of that letter.

Here is a link to the text of Petraeus’ letter of Friday 9/7/07 to U.S. troops.

Thanks for the link. I love how Petraeus says,

“It has not worked out as we had hoped.”

It reminded me that this is much like what the Emperor Hirohito said in his surrender message at the end of World War II. A classic case of incredible understatement.

I also liked his pointless football analogy:

“We are, in short, a long way from the goal line, but we do have the ball and we are driving down the field.”

Could anything be more purposefully meaningless?

rwcole @ 64

I read somewhere this morning that Patraeus has political ambitions…If he lets those ambitions get in the way of doing his job- then he is certainly less than honorable. I don’t know if he has, but the possibility is there.

Petraeus said at the beginning of the surge that he thought it had only a one-in-four chance of succeeding. Is it honorable to accept such a job under such circumstances, but doing so got him his fourth star.

rwcole @ 64

I read somewhere this morning that Patraeus has political ambitions…If he lets those ambitions get in the way of doing his job- then he is certainly less than honorable. I don’t know if he has, but the possibility is there.

Kristol mentioned his name as possible VP.
Yep, buy ‘em or blackmail ‘em. That’s their SOP. Hope the General is honest and turns a deaf ear to their bribes.

Hugh @ 69

I also liked his pointless football analogy:

“We are, in short, a long way from the goal line, but we do have the ball and we are driving down the field.”

Could anything be more purposefully meaningless?

How ’bout: “We don’t actually see the fleas, but we’re going to continue flicking”

Hugh @ 22

General, I beseech you, and I hope you see this essay before you testify, please please please put honor, integrity and truth ahead of blind loyalty to your Commander in Chief.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

If Petraeus had any integrity, he would not have taken on the position of chief implementer of the “surge” in an already failed war.

Petraeus has a history of seeing the truth his way. A few years ago, Petraeus was training Iraqi troops and saying how much great progress he was making doing so. If this were true, where are those troops now?

As for honor, the way it is being used nowadays, it is really nothing more than cheap political humbug, which in an ironical kind of way fits Petraeus perfectly.

Hugh, sadly I’m inclined to agree with you. But it does not mean that we should not make it abundantlyu clear that he is making a stark choice here.

A conscious choice. he is not being blindsided or tricked or paniced into lying. This is premeditated lying under oath.

Oh, and all those independant reports? They look like classic perjury trap.

Will Congress refer this one for prsecution? Maybe.
Maybe in 2009 when there is a new AG who might actually prosecute that case competently and win?

kdh22 @ 61

AZ Matt @ 58

Speculating on what Petraeus might or might not say is all we can do at the moment. Everyone including Bushwhackeroff is going to have to wait for the report. Then everyone can go into a tizzy.

I disagree. Betrayus has already been told what to say and how to say it. Parsing words is the only ‘honor’ that he will display.

He very well could just parse his words as you say but at this moment unless you can read his mind you are speculating too.

AZ Matt @ 58

Speculating on what Petraeus might or might not say is all we can do at the moment. Everyone including Bushwhackeroff is going to have to wait for the report. Then everyone can go into a tizzy.

We have always known what General Petraeus was going to say. If there was any doubt his latest letter to the troops spells it out, again. Waiting for the General is really nothing more than an exercise in political kabuki and selling an extension of the “surge”.

Does anyone think Petraeus is going to go to Congress and say it was all a mistake and it is time to get the hell out?

phred @ 23

LHP, has any President ever been charged with or prosecuted for lying to Congress in the SOTU? How would such charges be filed and who is responsible for pursuing them? (Note, I am praying here that you don’t tell me the answer to that question is Congress ;)

Also, lets say Petraeus gets up there for his dog and pony show and lets loose with a few whoppers. How exactly would charges be filed and by whom? I suspect we will be subject to witnessing more dithering on the part of the Congressional committees (i.e., all talk, no action) that we’ve seen related to the DoJ inquiries, but I’m hoping I’m wrong about that.

To my knowledge, it has never happend before. At least not in this clear, unequiocal fashion.

And yes, dear phred, the answer IS Congress. Impeachment you see.

Steve-AR @ 30

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

I think the new AG has a huge importance as a main firewall between where we are now and the US as a full-on police state. I can’t imagine anything being more important for the Dems in the Senate to be engaging in fully right now. They need to do whatever is in their power to make sure only a non-partisan excellent choice is made. Trust me, I have other high priorities, like restoring habeas corpus, not invading Iran, etc., etc, but this looks critical to me for right now.

AZ Matt @ 75

kdh22 @ 61

I disagree. Betrayus has already been told what to say and how to say it. Parsing words is the only ‘honor’ that he will display.

He very well could just parse his words as you say but at this moment unless you can read his mind you are speculating too.

Yes speculating is what I’m doing, but as I said @ 63(?), he’s been paid…a fourth star on his uniform and god knows how much in his off-shore account. That leads me to believe (using logic) that my speculation is fortified. That’s JMHO.

LHP, and everyone – If you hard-refresh, you will see the comment @ 77 has been fixed.

Petraeus? Did he take the super secret loyalty oath to Kommander Guy? Or is he loyal to the Constitution? We will soon know.

But, there is no Petaeus Report! It seems to have disappeared.

A senior military officer said there will be no written presentation to the president on security and stability in Iraq. “There is no report. It is an assessment provided by them by testimony,” the officer said.

The only hard copy will be Gen. Petraeus’ opening statement to Congress, scheduled for Monday, along with any charts he will use in explaining the results of the troop surge in Baghdad over the past several months.

Vintage David Ignatius :

That’s the smart Democratic strategy, he [a “leading” Deocratic strategist] argues, to take credit for altering the course of the war. “We have to stop saying we’re going to end the war, because we can’t,” the strategist cautions. But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

greenwarrior @ 77

I think the new AG has a huge importance as a main firewall between where we are now and the US as a full-on police state. I can’t imagine anything being more important for the Dems in the Senate to be engaging in fully right now. They need to do whatever is in their power to make sure only a non-partisan excellent choice is made. Trust me, I have other high priorities, like restoring habeas corpus, not invading Iran, etc., etc, but this looks critical to me for right now.

Absolutely could not agree more!

Some suggested terms:

LBC — lying before congress

LTTAP — lying to the American people

NTTWT — not telling the whole truth

LBH — loyalty before honesty

LSETTB — let someone else take the blame

O/T Crooks and liars has video of Chimp’s standout performance at APEC (not OPEC). Skip all the way to the end and be prepared to laugh or cry. I can’t even understand what Chimpy’s saying.

Frank33 @ 81

Petraeus? Did he take the super secret loyalty oath to Kommander Guy? Or is he loyal to the Constitution? We will soon know.

But, there is no Petaeus Report! It seems to have disappeared.

A senior military officer said there will be no written presentation to the president on security and stability in Iraq. “There is no report. It is an assessment provided by them by testimony,” the officer said.

The only hard copy will be Gen. Petraeus’ opening statement to Congress, scheduled for Monday, along with any charts he will use in explaining the results of the troop surge in Baghdad over the past several months.

And as I have been pointing out, he will testify before the White House report comes out so he won’t even be able to testify on that.

It looks like there will be no written ‘General Petraeus Report to Congress’ but I heard on the radio news that Petraeus has written a letter to his troops, and what they quoted does not sound very optimistic. Anyone know where to get the text of that letter? Why not just use that? As I recall, the conclusion of the letter was the best thing to do was to plug ahead. Sounds like a good substitute for a reprot.

Looks like the verdict is in for the Cheney-bush camp:
Bush advisers favor current war strategy
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..zmXDOs0NUE

allan_in_upstate @ 82

Vintage David Ignatius :

That’s the smart Democratic strategy, he [a “leading” Deocratic strategist] argues, to take credit for altering the course of the war. “We have to stop saying we’re going to end the war, because we can’t,” the strategist cautions. But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

“Leading” Democratic strategists haven’t helped us much in the last seven years, have they? As for that base…it’s called most of the country, and our desire to end the war is what finally took back the Congress. Ingnatius is an inside the beltway gasbag.

greenwarrior @ 78

I think the new AG has a huge importance as a main firewall between where we are now and the US as a full-on police state. I can’t imagine anything being more important for the Dems in the Senate to be engaging in fully right now. They need to do whatever is in their power to make sure only a non-partisan excellent choice is made. Trust me, I have other high priorities, like restoring habeas corpus, not invading Iran, etc., etc, but this looks critical to me for right now.

Does anyone honestly think that Bush will nominate anyone who isn’t a fully paid up Party member? Does anyone think the Democrats will do a damn thing about it?

I sure as hell don’t. I see the Democrats as fully complicit in the next stages of the Fascist shift that is occurring in this country.

What the hell. We’ve got football on telly!

David Ignatius :

…But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

So what happens is that they posture and do nothing.

And why not? The successful implantation of the “lesser of two evils” meme assures them that their base will always be there no matter what they do.

Hi LHP,

During your talks with Marcy I would assume the Rugby World Cup came up for discussion. So who’s your pick to win it all? I think I can guess which team Marcy is cheering for. ;-)
Would love to see a SpringBoks/All Blacks final.

mui @ 85

O/T Crooks and liars has video of Chimp’s standout performance at APEC (not OPEC). Skip all the way to the end and be prepared to laugh or cry. I can’t even understand what Chimpy’s saying.

I’m so proud that this idiot has been at the helm of my future and that of my children…not. What a statesman! What a president! Again, I’m beaming with pride! /s

Jonathan @ 84

Some suggested terms:

LBC — lying before congress

LTTAP — lying to the American people

NTTWT — not telling the whole truth

LBH — loyalty before honesty

LSETTB — let someone else take the blame

MSU – Making shit up

Lots of chatter about Petraeus and his PR blitz. What about the Senators on the Armed Services committee? What kind of preparations are they making to challenge the rosy picture that Petraues is likely to deliver?

The lineup on our side is far from stellar. Levin does ok as the chair and Webb and Kennedy can be counted on to call bullshit but I’m not so sure about the rest of them. Fuckin Lieberman is listed on the Dem side of the ledger. Then you’ve got Bush dogs Bayh and Ben Nelson.

I see lots of pillows showing up at this gunfight and lots of squinting at the shiny medals of the general.

Will anyone at least ask why there will be no written report?

Fer Chrissakes W can’t even do a little homework.

I don’t see a very good week ahead for either truth or sanity.

allan_in_upstate @ 82

Vintage David Ignatius :

That’s the smart Democratic strategy, he [a “leading” Deocratic strategist] argues, to take credit for altering the course of the war. “We have to stop saying we’re going to end the war, because we can’t,” the strategist cautions. But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

Sounds an awful lot like someone from Hillarys camp.
my bold

Madeleine l’Engle died:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20643685/

RIP

OT
Last night in Late, Late I stated that Cali had passed legislation for Health care reform. They did not. I miss understood. They are still working on it and it looks promising.
I swear to Jeebus, I wasn’t lying just ill informed and overly excited. Sorry guys.

katymine @ 92

Jonathan @ 84

Some suggested terms:

LBC — lying before congress

LTTAP — lying to the American people

NTTWT — not telling the whole truth

LBH — loyalty before honesty

LSETTB — let someone else take the blame

MSU – Making shit up

I like it a lot. Michigan State fans might take offense, though.

Why am I thinking Petraeus would “fit right in” with our local township zoning commission?

Below copied straight from a local newspaper:

After meeting with two professors from [X] University, members of the [Y] Township Zoning Commission decided to consider their suggestions as to [the] best way to update the comprehensive plan.

The professors recommended that, instead of sending out a lengthy survey, the board should first review the data from the 1995 (the most recent) [existing] comprehensive plan [snip].

Won’t someone in our government PULEEZE just
STOP.AND.THINK?!

This is our WORLD you are tearing to shreds!
Other people have legitimate claims to it also.
When you break things, there are consequences.
Some things can NEVER be fixed.

PLEASE.JUST.STOP!

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 40

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

Here’s a Kos diary in reply.

I did not have the level of expertise on this but it smelled funny. Not that it couldn’t happen, just that report.

What she’s saying about the targeting all done, etc., is nothing different from what Sey Hirsch reported, hell, is it a year ago in the New Yorker?

That CheneyBush wanted to hit Iran and the Air Force was saying “Yessirs” and the marines and army generals are saying “oh shit, here we go again.”

I am still pondering Hillary’s membership in “The Fellowship”
Does any one know anything about it?

As for lying, Petraeus will have lots of charts and graphs and statistics. They will all be cherrypicked and/or based on dubious or erroneous data. He will say attacks are down although US deaths are not. He will say US deaths are down but this will ignore that they are declining from record levels and that most of this decline is a result of a drop off in activity by all sides in the mid-summer months. He will say that civilian deaths are down although no one really knows how many civilians are killed. Even so, he will only be able to achieve this feat by removing from whatever number he uses Sunnis killed by Sunnis, and Shia killed by Shia.

In other words, Petraeus will be lying through his teeth but his statements will be factually correct.

PeteCO @ 89

greenwarrior @ 78

I think the new AG has a huge importance as a main firewall between where we are now and the US as a full-on police state. I can’t imagine anything being more important for the Dems in the Senate to be engaging in fully right now. They need to do whatever is in their power to make sure only a non-partisan excellent choice is made. Trust me, I have other high priorities, like restoring habeas corpus, not invading Iran, etc., etc, but this looks critical to me for right now.

Does anyone honestly think that Bush will nominate anyone who isn’t a fully paid up Party member? Does anyone think the Democrats will do a damn thing about it?

I sure as hell don’t. I see the Democrats as fully complicit in the next stages of the Fascist shift that is occurring in this country.

What the hell. We’ve got football on telly!

To answer your questions: Sadly, no. And to make it worse, I do not watch football.

Since we’re staying, get ready for a draft.

“US General Says Pullout Plan “Ready To Go” NBC Nightly News says that while military planners “say it could take two years for a complete withdrawal from Iraq,” a “top US commander here in Kuwait says, from a logistics standpoint, he’s already got the plan and he’s ready to go. All he needs is the President’s order.” The Washington Post reports Lt. Gen. R. Steven Whitcomb said facilities in Kuwait “have handled as many as 240,000 troops moving into and out of Iraq in as little as a three-month period during the war’s major rotations.”

Jonathan @ 98

katymine @ 92

MSU – Making shit up

I like it a lot. Michigan State fans might take offense, though.

I can get away with it…. my Dad is a MI State alumni ;)

marymccurnin @ 97

OT
Last night in Late, Late I stated that Cali had passed legislation for Health care reform. They did not. I miss understood. They are still working on it and it looks promising.
I swear to Jeebus, I wasn’t lying just ill informed and overly excited. Sorry guys.

aw! well, thanks for the correction.

looseheadprop @ 77

phred @ 23

LHP, has any President ever been charged with or prosecuted for lying to Congress in the SOTU? How would such charges be filed and who is responsible for pursuing them? (Note, I am praying here that you don’t tell me the answer to that question is Congress ;)

Also, lets say Petraeus gets up there for his dog and pony show and lets loose with a few whoppers. How exactly would charges be filed and by whom? I suspect we will be subject to witnessing more dithering on the part of the Congressional committees (i.e., all talk, no action) that we’ve seen related to the DoJ inquiries, but I’m hoping I’m wrong about that.

To my knowledge, it has never happend before. At least not in this clear, unequiocal fashion.

And yes, dear phred, the answer IS Congress. Impeachment you see.

Damn. I knew you were gonna say that.

Thanks as always for the great post. And I agree with what you told Hugh, the blogs will not make a difference in what Petraeus does or does not say, but we can certainly build a record so that someday an honorable AG can prosecute. Thanks for all of your efforts on this LHP!

Where’s the war czar?

fantastic post, lhp.

I wonder if many people really care that Bush was in violation of the law when he lied in the State of the Union address (addresses? He kept bending the truth at minimum in several speeches, as far as I can remember… but most certainly the speech before invading & occupying Iraq was the biggest set of lies).

I’m not sure if most people have thought about it the way you put it, LHP. Lying to Congress is a crime, and lying during a State of the Union is one of the most egregious acts a President could do.

I’m sure that more than 80% of the public knows he was lying. (I would venture a guess that a lot of diehard supporters won’t want to admit it publically, but they know Bush was lying when he made that speech. Many will even say, “yeah, he wasn’t 100% honest, but he had good reasons.” That’s enough to make me start shaking in anger). Most people I know, including the formerly deluded who voted for this man and initially supported the invasion of Iraq, are very aware that Bush has been lying all along, and they just want him to go away. They don’t want a big drama of impeachment, simply because they’re sick of looking at him, sick of hearing his lies, and they believe Bush and his highly skilled pack of propagandist DC folk will prop him up and rip the country even further to shreds.

In other words, most people know Bush lied, and it was illegal and incredibly unethical. They just fear what havoc he’ll reap if he’s drawn into an impeachment battle.

All that said, I still believe it *should* happen. He should be charged and tried for lying to Congress – probably the most blatant and destructive set of lies ever told to Congress.

George Bush changed everything. He changed how the Presidency operates – the most secretive and deceptive Presidency we’ve ever had. He morphed every nook & cranny of the federal government to try and support his narrowly partisan and highly colonialist domination theories. He should be tried for such crimes. And, those who have lied for him and continue the big lie should also be punished for their crimes.

Here’s hoping Gen. Petraeus will realize that continuing to lie for the criminal Bush administration is both illegal and unpatriotic. Don’t even try to spin lies as “our interpretation of the facts”. Lies are lies, General.

snowbird42 @ 101
this Mother Jones article gives all the detail of Hillary’s membership in the Fellowship.

Hillary’s Prayer: Hillary Clinton’s Religion and Politics

Really interesting stuff I had no idea about her past.

Sachem @ 103

Since we’re staying, get ready for a draft.

Fine. There are plenty of eligible males.

solai @ 109

Where’s the war czar?

polishing herr nit’s shoes?

Would someone please tell me how msd’s (mainstream dims) are better than the thugs?
Not just hoping, but really, explicitly, in boring detail, giving concrete example. Oh, that’s right, thery’re jus’ goin’ along to get along. They actually have integrity!

katymine @ 111

snowbird42 @ 101
this Mother Jones article gives all the detail of Hillary’s membership in the Fellowship.

Hillary’s Prayer: Hillary Clinton’s Religion and Politics

Really interesting stuff I had no idea about her past.

Thanks, do we really need another George Bush?
I find my self liking her less and less. Shes got the wingnuts praying for her…

Kevster @ 94

I don’t see a very good week ahead for either truth or sanity.

I don’t see a very good next half a century; at least not for America. I guess there was never a guarantee that the Age of Aquarius would be led by the freedoms and liberties of the American people. But I really did not expect that we would embody the elements of humanity that the rest of the world rallied and fought against in order to achieve a brave new world. That’s irony of a type I don’t relish.

Steve-AR @ 30

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

Unfortunately I caught a replay of the House Homeland Security Committee discussing this on cspan, late last night. Frankly it was as disturbing as any Orwelian scenario I have heard about by our government.Ever! It’s one thing to keep secrets about the nature and scope of surveillance techniques on foreign lands but quite another to keep them secret at home while allowing them to be ordered by all levels of law enforcement, right down to local police at all! Much less without any court supervision. The 3rd and 4th amendment seem to be diminished to the point that they are comical novelty ideas.

I don’t want to be x-rayed or cat scanned by my government from space or low flying drones. ANd I want my government to shoot down any other satellite that tries to do so!

You hope Petraeus sees your essay. You implore him to consider the consequence of lying to Congress, when we have observed there are no consequences, not in this congress, not with this president.

I am beginning to understand this element in your discourse called “satire.”

Jonathan @ 98

katymine @ 92

MSU – Making shit up

I like it a lot. Michigan State fans might take offense, though.

I can assure you they have heard worse. One of the fine traditions in the Big Ten is take other school’s fight songs and do a little creative writing on the lyrics. Sadly, the mods would surely delete the ones I remember well enough to share… Making Shit Up would be an improvement ;)

allan_in_upstate @ 82

Vintage David Ignatius :

That’s the smart Democratic strategy, he [a “leading” Deocratic strategist] argues, to take credit for altering the course of the war. “We have to stop saying we’re going to end the war, because we can’t,” the strategist cautions. But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

What I find realy interesting about this statement is that it assumes while the Democratic base is angry about events in Iraq Democratic politicians aren’t. My question would be why aren’t they as angry as their base?

The second point is that this is a takeoff on the idea that only fringe voters oppose the Iraq War. How does the strategist reconcile the 70% of Americans who are against this war with the “country” which is apparently still for it?

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

This sounds very much like the totally bogus diary by Maccabee on DKos about a week or so ago. It had over 1300 comments before it was taken down as totally false. Markos himself wrote a post reminding people they should be more skeptical and not automatically fall for these false claims because the Repugs were very amused at our embarrassment.

allan_in_upstate @ 82

Vintage David Ignatius :

That’s the smart Democratic strategy, he [a “leading” Deocratic strategist] argues, to take credit for altering the course of the war. “We have to stop saying we’re going to end the war, because we can’t,” the strategist cautions. But he fears that congressional Democrats, pushed by an angry base, will continue to schedule votes for funding cutoffs and troop-withdrawal dates. That may appeal to the base but not to the country as a whole, the strategist fears.

What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

From the same article, more high Broderism:

Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.

“Guilty parties” fits as well as “the responsibles” here.

P.S. More vintage Ignatius.

David W. Bartoo @ 114

Would someone please tell me how msd’s (mainstream dims) are better than the thugs?

Feckless vs. criminal, you choose.

Kevster @ 94

Fuckin Lieberman is listed on the Dem side of the ledger. .

speaking of the senator liarman… he’s finally calling a hearing of his senate homeland security committee. apparently he will be “celebrating” the 6th anniversary of 911 with Chertoff, McConnell, Redd and Mueller on Monday 9:30 am.

details and complete list of next week’s hearings – here.

Hugh @ 123

David W. Bartoo @ 114

Would someone please tell me how msd’s (mainstream dims) are better than the thugs?

Feckless vs. criminal, you choose.

that’s not fair – the dems are a monolith… some are feckless while others are complicit.

Ann in AZ @ 121

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

This sounds very much like the totally bogus diary by Maccabee on DKos about a week or so ago. It had over 1300 comments before it was taken down as totally false. Markos himself wrote a post reminding people they should be more skeptical and not automatically fall for these false claims because the Repugs were very amused at our embarrassment.

Like a supposed female LSO with a Marine and Navy background now posted in theatre on a carrier couldn’t be quickly ID’d and charged with releasing ops details. That was my reaction when I first read it.

David W. Bartoo @ 114

Would someone please tell me how msd’s (mainstream dims) are better than the thugs?
Not just hoping, but really, explicitly, in boring detail, giving concrete example. Oh, that’s right, thery’re jus’ goin’ along to get along. They actually have integrity!

Oh sure. Supreme Court Justices Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts. No mainstream Democrat* would have nominated any of these people.

*Lieberman doesn’t count.

rwcole at #8 says:

The surge CANNOT be sustained past March- no matter what- so there is no debate possible about that either.

As long as it is going on- it gives Bush something to point to. After March- he will lose his “Ace in the hole” but he will have gained 15 months with it…

Yes, but my understanding is that they don’t have to withdraw large numbers–only about 3,500 troops by April. I wonder how that works…3,500 in April and an equal amount every month thereafter? Are there enough troops to replace the next 3,500 as their deployment dates expire? Can someone explain how this works?

selise @ 125

Hugh @ 123

Feckless vs. criminal, you choose.

that’s not fair – the dems are a monolith… some are feckless while others are complicit.

are not a monolith

preview is my friend.

wigwam @ 20

I suspect that General Petraeus will say that the level of success the surge has achieved is such that it allow us to bring a significant number of troops home. And that’s simply the white lie of pitching a bug as a feature.

From WWII came the saying: “Amateurs worry about strategy.’Professionals worry about ‘logistics.’ ” Fred Kaplan, the military editor for Slate, states the logistical facts of life in Iraq in crisp military prose:

The long and short of it is that by next spring some of the 20 U.S. combat brigades currently in Iraq — perhaps as many as a quarter to a half of them — will be pulling out, and nobody will replace them. his is a mathematical fact, quite apart from anything to do with the upcoming election or the war’s diminishing popularity.

Whether or not you regard this fact as lamentable, President Bush only makes things worse by howling that any pullback would erode American power and embolden the terrorists. Even if his warning is true, for a president to state it so urgently, over and over and over and over, deepens the damage when the storm hits.

There you have it, and it has nothing to do with how well the surge worked or how well Petraeus says it worked.

Bush made a self-defeating decision when he attempted to militarily impose on Iraq a stable democratic government allied with the U.S. in the Global War on Terror. The numbers underscore the fact that he has been defeated relative to that goal.

The only remaining question is whether or not he will attempt to hang onto the six or so megabases we’ve built in Iraq.

Frankly, I’m worried about him even paying attention to the “have to bring them home in the spring.” I keep remembering a conversation with my career Marine (and amateur military historian) father-in-law back in early 2005 (I think) about how they were going to have to start bringing troops home within a few months then. Instead, they extended tours, sent Guard troops on repeated deployments, and more.

While we hear a lot of talk about the military being “broken” if they don’t start bringing them home, there isn’t really a “broken,” there’s only more and more broken.

To Bush, nothing that happens after he leaves office matters as much as avoiding admitting failure in Iraq. I think it would be foolish to believe that he’s not willing to further break the military rather withdraw any significant troops from Iraq, even if every military expert says he “has to.”

rwcole @ 64

I read somewhere this morning that Patraeus has political ambitions…If he lets those ambitions get in the way of doing his job- then he is certainly less than honorable. I don’t know if he has, but the possibility is there.

If Petraeus has tied his fortunes to this administration which it appears he has, there’s a very limited number of areas of the country where he could further his political ambitions. And he would most likely be in a minority group while serving.

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 122

From the same article, more high Broderism:

Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.

That is so dopey that it leaves me speechless. Responsibles? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

selise @ 125

Hugh @ 123

Feckless vs. criminal, you choose.

that’s not fair – the dems are a monolith… some are feckless while others are complicit.

I stand corrected. LOL

A careful review of the New York Times will show that the paper believes that Petraeus is a liar. This article on the front page says that there is nothing that can be called progress. It says that the best that can be said is that the surge, and the revised tactics of Petraeus, have stopped people from killing each other, but that the people of Iraq hate each other with blinding and unstinted passion, and will start killing each other as soon as possible. It says there is no prospect of political accomodation.

Here, Public Editor Clark Hoyt explains the standards for calling people liars in the news section. The first article meets his standard of calling people liars in technical language, without using the word.

I have taken to calling him Senator Petreaus because I think that he has morphed into a garden variety politician.

He’ll say whatever he needs to say, troops and Iraqis be dammned.

-GSD

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 122

From the same article, more high Broderism:

Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.

“Guilty parties” fits as well as “the responsibles” here.

P.S. More vintage Ignatius.

Oh, I don’t know. I think they’re responsible for a lot, so the term fits pretty well, if not in the way that the author intends.

LittlePig @ 6

Republicans have decided that truth is a outdated concept for non-visionary minds, and doesn’t help promote the Permanent Republican Majority (not to mention being related to that whole Enlighenment thing that got people away from good ol’ theocratic control).

So General MacArthur, er, um Petraeus will no doubt be telling Truth 2.0 (also known as “providing cover for tour extensions”). In his mind, he won’t be breaking any laws, just holding things to a ‘higher’ (and richer) standard.

Exaclty! But of course that nasty ol’ reality thingy gits in the way. And….

If you think this is ‘winning’ you are as dumb as you are morally repugnant…but hey, that’s what Republicans are all about, right?

As to ‘getting away with it…’ Of course he will! Miss Nancy and The Gutless Reid have decided that their party will win in a walk in 2008 so they really need do nothing but sit on their hands and….

Keep their powder dry.

Our task is to chuck them out.They really need to go.

Away.

~~~ModNote: the video contained in this comment is disturbing, and “difficult to watch”.~~~

In Petraeus Bush finally found the general he wants. There is just no hope of getting the truth from Petraeus, but there is also no way of making him accountable for not telling the truth. One way one becomes a general is to learn how to put a gloss on the facts so that it becomes acceptable “reality.”

Let’s face it, once the Democratic Congress could not overturn Bush’s veto of the funding bill, and then approved of the surge, Bush got everything he wanted.

Everything.

Probably one reason why Murtha has disappeared from the news is that he knows that Bush has won, game, set, and match. Bush’s game plan is to bequeath the mess to his successor, whatever party takes over. His way of ensuring his legacy, as he sees it, is to make sure we never leave Iraq. It’s a done deal folks.

Wanna get angry? Get angry at Reid and Pelosi, not Bush or Petraeus.

As Vince Lombardi once said, “We did not lose the game, we just ran out of time.”

peanutbutter @ 48

Steve-AR @ 30

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

The degree to which “Homeland Security” grates on my nerves makes fingernails down a blackboard positively soothing in contrast.

I couldn’t have come up with a name more alien to the principles that this country was founded on.

They have a history of Freudian slips of that sort. Remember 41’s New World Order and the storm that significant phrase stirred up?

I would be only mildly surprised if Shrub popped up one day with a “final solution” for the Iraq problem.

BobbyG @ 126

Ann in AZ @ 121

This sounds very much like the totally bogus diary by Maccabee on DKos about a week or so ago. It had over 1300 comments before it was taken down as totally false. Markos himself wrote a post reminding people they should be more skeptical and not automatically fall for these false claims because the Repugs were very amused at our embarrassment.

Like a supposed female LSO with a Marine and Navy background now posted in theatre on a carrier couldn’t be quickly ID’d and charged with releasing ops details. That was my reaction when I first read it.

Yeah, I remember thinking it was hard to believe as much wiretapping, spying, and censoring, etc. that this admin does, that she could convey this message through any means currently known to man without discovery.

David Petraeus for Mayor of Crawford Texas 2008!

-GSD

GSD @ 142

David Petraeus for Mayor of Crawford Texas 2008!

-GSD

that goes right in the classic bumper sticker collection.

Some guy on a bus told me that that his wife’s cousin told him that second hand stories are always suspect.

-GSD

Petreus is a military guy. He could tell the absolute truth and still reach the conclusion that we need to stay and fight on till we win.

Congress could send people to jail for lying — if they had the guts!

Remember Alger Hiss and the Pumpkin Papers? Hiss was a nice, liberal guy who went to jail in the 50’s for ‘lying to Congress!’ Shows that Congress COULD send people to jail for lying (as they did with Hiss in a vendetta against the ‘lefties’ from the FDR administration).

I interviewed Hiss when I did a college paper on his ordeal, and personally don’t believe he was a spy. The right-wing press still believes that Hiss was a Communist spy.

A rising star in the Roosevelt administration who had been a negotiator at Yalta with FDR, Hiss was head of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, when he was accused by right-winger Whittaker Chambers of ‘espionage’ in an elaborate story. Hiss had voluntarily testified before Nixon’s House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC), and was indicted for lying to HUAC, after his story did not agree with ‘journalist’ Whittaker Chambers’ accounts; and Hiss was jailed for lying to Congress.

Chambers dramatically found microfilms he’d hidden in a pumpkin patch (the Pumpkin Papers, ‘found’ in front of NY journalists and brought to a HUAC hearing). Chambers said the microfilms ‘proved’ that Hiss had copied secret information about the U.S. and given it to Chambers to forward to the Russians; Chambers also said that he had visited the Hiss home, telling the colors of the rugs, tables, etc., and nicknames of the family members.

Hiss was divorced, lost his Carnegie Foundation job, became a stationery salesman, and lived in NYC when I interviewed him in 1963. Wikipedia outlines the Hiss story here.

Personally, I think that Hiss was a decent man, possibly with Communist ties (as many had at that time); but I don’t believe he spied for Russia or the Communists. I think that Chambers was a venal liar, and that he conspired with Nixon et al, to create a story to bring Hiss down.

Don’t forget that Petraeus was in charge of losing 190,000 weapons in Iraq. Maybe that stellar feat is what got him his promotion.

snowbird42 @ 115

katymine @ 111

snowbird42 @ 101
this Mother Jones article gives all the detail of Hillary’s membership in the Fellowship.

Hillary’s Prayer: Hillary Clinton’s Religion and Politics

Really interesting stuff I had no idea about her past.

Thanks, do we really need another George Bush?
I find my self liking her less and less. Shes got the wingnuts praying for her…

The unpleasant thing about Hilary as President is that to be a halfway good president, she’ll have to stab a lot of her friends and associates in the back. What do you bet she stays loyal to them and screws the American people over instead?

Eureka Springs @ 117

Steve-AR @ 30

OT..Damn the ‘08 elections..full speed ahead to the police state.

Beginning in October 2007 the Department of Homeland Security will open a new office called the National Applications Office (NAO) charged with civil/domestic intelligence gathering.

This new division of Homeland Security was conceived entirely by the Executive Branch, with no Congressional input, and will serve as a clearinghouse for requests to access the data provided by military spy satellites, with a resolution of inches, to view the territorial United States. During the hearing Charles Allen, Assistant Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis told Chairman Bennie Thompson that their legal and civil rights oversite concerns were misplaced. Some form of “Just trust us”, was the operative phrase.

link

The increasing power grab by the Exec. despite the probable election loss in ‘08 is difficult to understand without wearing a tin-foil hat.

Unfortunately I caught a replay of the House Homeland Security Committee discussing this on cspan, late last night. Frankly it was as disturbing as any Orwelian scenario I have heard about by our government.Ever! It’s one thing to keep secrets about the nature and scope of surveillance techniques on foreign lands but quite another to keep them secret at home while allowing them to be ordered by all levels of law enforcement, right down to local police at all! Much less without any court supervision. The 3rd and 4th amendment seem to be diminished to the point that they are comical novelty ideas.

I don’t want to be x-rayed or cat scanned by my government from space or low flying drones. ANd I want my government to shoot down any other satellite that tries to do so!

The thing that caught my eye was “National Applications Office” How benign; maybe it’s where you apply for a National Park Permit. How Stalin-esque.

Loved these shots of Bush kissing Terrorist ass in Anbar:

http://abuaardvark.typepad.com…..bu-ri.html

Frank33 @ 81

Petraeus? Did he take the super secret loyalty oath to Kommander Guy? Or is he loyal to the Constitution? We will soon know.

But, there is no Petaeus Report! It seems to have disappeared.

A senior military officer said there will be no written presentation to the president on security and stability in Iraq. “There is no report. It is an assessment provided by them by testimony,” the officer said.

The only hard copy will be Gen. Petraeus’ opening statement to Congress, scheduled for Monday, along with any charts he will use in explaining the results of the troop surge in Baghdad over the past several months.

Yeah, but when he testifies, they have a court reporter taking it all down and everything.
How stupid and childish is this?

Oh, yeah, forgot. We’re talking ’bout Shrub

FWIW…I, too, know someone who was in the Navy. He told me 2yrs ago that we were getting ready to bomb Iran. I have no doubt that he was being truthful. The problem is that no order has been given to execute their plans. Are they just saber-rattling to frighten Iran? Who knows. But, I can see the rumors spreading since our guys are seeing all this prepping.

Steve-AR @ 148

Eureka Springs @ 117

Unfortunately I caught a replay of the House Homeland Security Committee discussing this on cspan, late last night. Frankly it was as disturbing as any Orwelian scenario I have heard about by our government.Ever! It’s one thing to keep secrets about the nature and scope of surveillance techniques on foreign lands but quite another to keep them secret at home while allowing them to be ordered by all levels of law enforcement, right down to local police at all! Much less without any court supervision. The 3rd and 4th amendment seem to be diminished to the point that they are comical novelty ideas.

I don’t want to be x-rayed or cat scanned by my government from space or low flying drones. ANd I want my government to shoot down any other satellite that tries to do so!

The thing that caught my eye was “National Applications Office” How benign; maybe it’s where you apply for a National Park Permit. How Stalin-esque.

And Orwellian

MS @ 145

MS, the USAs from the DoJ have to be willing to bring the case against the liar. Ever since Ann Gorsuch Burford, a lot of the R DoJs have been reluctant to punish R admins when requested to do so by D congresses

foulis @ 91

Hi LHP,

During your talks with Marcy I would assume the Rugby World Cup came up for discussion. So who’s your pick to win it all? I think I can guess which team Marcy is cheering for. ;-)
Would love to see a SpringBoks/All Blacks final.

I’m an All Blacks fan. Ex Mr. Prop is actually from So. Africa, but he doesn’t think they have a prayer this year.

HAAKA on bro’.

kdh22 @ 153

Steve-AR @ 148

The thing that caught my eye was “National Applications Office” How benign; maybe it’s where you apply for a National Park Permit. How Stalin-esque.

And Orwellian

face it, it’s pure Bushian

Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles replaceables!,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.

there, that’s better.

Hugh @ 132

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 122

From the same article, more high Broderism:

Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.

That is so dopey that it leaves me speechless. Responsibles? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I don’t know if leaving comments at the WaPo does any good (beyond therapeutic, that is), but:

ifthethunderdontgetya wrote:
“Centrist Democrats and Republicans — “the responsibles,” as Charles Peters of Washington Monthly likes to call them — have rallied recently around the Iraq Study Group report that was issued nine months ago.”

A better word would be the guilty parties, Mr. Ignatius. As for that ‘angry base’ that wants us out of Iraq? It is most of the country…excepting inside the beltway gasbags, of course.
9/9/2007 12:48:23

Your Comments On…Can the Democrats Say Yes?

Question. Someone (Cokie?) referred to a ‘disgustin’ MoveOn ad about the Iraq war. Which ad is that? Went to their site but didn’t see anything ‘disgusting’. Are they airing something on TV?

looseheadprop @ 66

egregious @ 9

Good morning loosehead! Hope Littleprop is having a terrific birthday extravaganza.

My comment about Littleprop an weekend long birthday’s was generic, but somehow everybody (not just you) took it mean that I was referring to THIS weekend.

She’s a Christmas baby.

iirc it was Renee in Ohio whose daughter has a birthday this weekend. Also madmommy’s little boy.

we mommies gotta stick together.

masaccio @ 135

A careful review of the New York Times will show that the paper believes that Petraeus is a liar. This article on the front page says that there is nothing that can be called progress. It says that the best that can be said is that the surge, and the revised tactics of Petraeus, have stopped people from killing each other, but that the people of Iraq hate each other with blinding and unstinted passion, and will start killing each other as soon as possible. It says there is no prospect of political accomodation.

Here, Public Editor Clark Hoyt explains the standards for calling people liars in the news section. The first article meets his standard of calling people liars in technical language, without using the word.

There is also this article in the NYT by Michael Gordon from yesterday:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09…..ry.html?hp

I wrote something on it but never got around to posting it because I spent the rest of the day with my 95 year old father in an Emergency Room. (He’s OK)

The way Gordon massages the facts, misstates and confounds them, or brings up criticisms without ever applying them give insight into what Petraeus is likely to do in his testimony.

In the Gordon piece, I found the most egregious example of deception here where he quotes from a report by the group Iraq Body Count:

“Levels of violence reached an all-time high in the last six months of 2006,” the British organization said in a recent analysis on the “surge” of American forces in Baghdad. “Only in comparison to that could the first half of 2007 be regarded as an improvement.”

What Gordon leaves out is the next sentence.

Despite any efforts put into the surge, the first six months of 2007 was still the most deadly first six months for civilians of any year since the invasion.

which kind of blows his point out of the water.

sunsin @ 147

snowbird42 @ 115

Thanks, do we really need another George Bush?
I find my self liking her less and less. Shes got the wingnuts praying for her…

The unpleasant thing about Hilary as President is that to be a halfway good president, she’ll have to stab a lot of her friends and associates in the back. What do you bet she stays loyal to them and screws the American people over instead?

I’ve said this before, but I think it’s worth mentioning again. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan…ya gotta serve somebody. It may be the devil or it may be the lord, but ya gotta serve somebody.

How apropos when thinking of Hillary.

And, something else to which to give thought, what do you think Bill was doing cozying up to George the Senior in the past couple of years? Jus’ think ’bout it!

looseheadprop @ 150

Yeah, but when he testifies, they have a court reporter taking it all down and everything.
How stupid and childish is this?

Oh, yeah, forgot. We’re talking ’bout Shrub

Yeah, but in the meantime, back at the ranch, the administration that this Shrub acts as the sometimes meat puppet for, will be continuing unchecked in various and sundry nefarious activities.

I think the recent hyperbole over supposed designs to attack Iran can be viewed as an attempt to accomplish several things. One to familiarize the American public with the idea and (with any luck) to invest in the general media groupthink that anyone in opposition to that idea is a left wing nutbag, absent the realization that another preemptive war is the actual insanity. And, two, just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to getcha.

The Bush legacy: Fear, Death and failure.

Another possible installment yet to come in the George W, Bush saga:

“Cheney and Elliott Abrams may be preparing to do to Iran what Cheney and Wolfowitz did to Iraq.”

Iraq, Israel, Iran by: David Bromwich

Hugh @ 102

[snip]
In other words, Petraeus will be lying through his teeth but his statements will be factually correct.

The thugs have had plenty of practice at *every* form of lying. In fact, one could say it’s the only thing they manage to do well. :-(

kdh22 @ 161

I’ve said this before, but I think it’s worth mentioning again. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan…ya gotta serve somebody. It may be the devil or it may be the lord, but ya gotta serve somebody.

And sometimes Satan, comes as a can of peas!

Waccamaw @ 164

Hugh @ 102

[snip]
In other words, Petraeus will be lying through his teeth but his statements will be factually correct.

The thugs have had plenty of practice at *every* form of lying. In fact, one could say it’s the only thing they manage to do well. :-(

Don’t forget stealing.

Selise, isn’t Murtha on the house committee that is to question the general? To me, Murtha is the most informed, most sensible, realistic and convincing of all of Congress on the subject of this war.

Roboreader @ 118

You hope Petraeus sees your essay. You implore him to consider the consequence of lying to Congress, when we have observed there are no consequences, not in this congress, not with this president.

I am beginning to understand this element in your discourse called “satire.”

There could be serious consequences in 2009. Which IIRC, would still be with the Statute of Limitations.

In front of the USAO SDNY is a huge sculpture of a bunch of intersection wheels. It’s real name (I think) is “infinity”.

When newbie USA’s would start in the office, some of us,as a mild prank, would tell them that it was actually a kinectic sculpture called “the Wheels of Justice” and that the wheels turned SOOOO slowly that the movement was not visible to the human eye.

Some former AUSA’s still believe that. Because their own experiance has taught them how frustrating slow the delivery of justice can be.

As an aside, only one new AUSA that I know of ever tried to prove whether the kinetic sculpture story was true or false. He did so by putting a chalk mark on one of the whells and measuring it for several days to see if it moved.

Can any of you guess who that “I gotta have actual proof” AUSA was?

Pregnant women to get cash for good diet

· £120 grant to buy fruit and vegetables
· Brown rejects ‘nanny state’ criticism

Jo Revill, Whitehall editor
Sunday September 9, 2007
The Observer

All expectant mothers are to be given a one-off payment of around £120 that they will be encouraged to spend on fresh fruit and vegetables as a way of protecting their children from diseases and incurable conditions later in life.

did anyone see today’s George Will about “soldiers doing the thinking”? It actually made some sense, and contained several not so subtle acknowledgments of what brazen fuck ups the, um, “civilian leaders” are.

I hate it when I agree with George Will. I kind of wish he’d be a slimy slick-talking elitist asshole 100% of the time instead of 99.9%.

LHP, Doesn’t Littleprop get upset being a Christmas time b’day girl? Always seemed that those kids got short changed in comparison to those of us in the summer months and all. :})

New thread from Christy!

solai @ 158

Question. Someone (Cokie?) referred to a ‘disgustin’ MoveOn ad about the Iraq war. Which ad is that? Went to their site but didn’t see anything ‘disgusting’. Are they airing something on TV?

I don’t think they ever put stuff on TV that isn’t also on the website (other than versions tailored to specific candidates.) So who knows what Cokie was talking about; chances are it wasn’t even MoveOn.

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 167

Waccamaw @ 164

The thugs have had plenty of practice at *every* form of lying. In fact, one could say it’s the only thing they manage to do well. :-(

Don’t forget stealing.

*banging head on keyboard*

Definite evidence of a “senior moment” at my end of the toobz. That makes two things. ;-(

oddmommy @ 170

did anyone see today’s George Will about “soldiers doing the thinking”? It actually made some sense, and contained several not so subtle acknowledgments of what brazen fuck ups the, um, “civilian leaders” are.

I hate it when I agree with George Will. I kind of wish he’d be a slimy slick-talking elitist asshole 100% of the time instead of 99.9%.

hehehe. .1% won’t kill ya :)

Ann in AZ @ 167

Selise, isn’t Murtha on the house committee that is to question the general? To me, Murtha is the most informed, most sensible, realistic and convincing of all of Congress on the subject of this war.

i don’t think so.
house armed services committee members
house foreign affairss committee members

you’re probably thinking of the house appropriations committee, where murtha is chair of the defense subcommittee.

OT-OT-OT

I have finished the Cheney/Bush banishing ritual:

If you are Pagan begin with casting your circle, other faiths do whatever you do for home prayer (a spell is a prayer).

Pagans invoke Themis, or other suitable deities.

Then take two candles (birthday candles will work), name them (one for Cheney the other for Bush) lighting them as you do so. Then pronounce the names again:

“President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney,

Clergy say:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who serve (deity’s name here).

Oathbreakers, they and all who stand by them;
Oathbreakers, once–by the promises they swore on the day they took office; Oathbreakers, twice–by allowing their followers to face justice for their crimes in their place; Oathbreakers, thrice–for their treatment of the soldiers who serve our county and those whom they have unjustly imprisoned.

Judges, lawyers, LEOs here’s your verse:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who deal in Justice, Oathbreakers, once–by the violation of their sworn word; Oathbreakers, twice–by the perversion of powers granted to them for the common weal to their own ends; Oathbreakers, thrice–by the use of pain and death for naught but they and their followers profit.

Everyone else here’s your part:

Oathbreakers I name them, and all who support them, Oathbreakers, I do name them, who am the common man/woman of good will, making the third for Outcasting–

Oathbreakers once–by the lies of their tongues; Oathbreakers, twice–by their perversion of the government and the rape of our Constitution; Oathbreakers, thrice–for bringing war and destruction solely for their own profit, and failure to care for those harmed by the same.

Oathbreaker is their name, and all oaths to them are null. Oathbreakers to clergy, Oathbreakers to lawgivers, Oathbreakers to the common citizens of this land.

Oathbreakers we find them: Oathbreakers in soul, Oathbreakers in power, Oathbreakers in duty.

Oathbreakers we brought them; Oathbreakers in thought, Oathbreakers in word, Oathbreakers in deed. Oathbreakers they stand judged, and condemned–

(Here’s where the invocation to Themis goes, I have it at work and will add it tomorrow.)

Then say the Preznits and Veeps names one more time, and extinguish their named candles with vigor, I’d suggest into a bowl of water.

After discussing this with fellow Pagans, I will be doing this ritual three times, at sunset tomorrow, again at midnight, and concurrently with the Solar Eclipse on Tuesday morning.

Brisingamen @ 177

OT-OT-OT

I have finished the Cheney/Bush banishing ritual:

If you are Pagan begin with casting your circle, other faiths do whatever you do for home prayer (a spell is a prayer).

Pagans invoke Themis, or other suitable deities.

Then take two candles (birthday candles will work), name them (one for Cheney the other for Bush) lighting them as you do so. Then pronounce the names again:

“President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney,

Clergy say:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who serve (deity’s name here).

Oathbreakers, they and all who stand by them;
Oathbreakers, once–by the promises they swore on the day they took office; Oathbreakers, twice–by allowing their followers to face justice for their crimes in their place; Oathbreakers, thrice–for their treatment of the soldiers who serve our county and those whom they have unjustly imprisoned.

Judges, lawyers, LEOs here’s your verse:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who deal in Justice, Oathbreakers, once–by the violation of their sworn word; Oathbreakers, twice–by the perversion of powers granted to them for the common weal to their own ends; Oathbreakers, thrice–by the use of pain and death for naught but they and their followers profit.

Everyone else here’s your part:

Oathbreakers I name them, and all who support them, Oathbreakers, I do name them, who am the common man/woman of good will, making the third for Outcasting–

Oathbreakers once–by the lies of their tongues; Oathbreakers, twice–by their perversion of the government and the rape of our Constitution; Oathbreakers, thrice–for bringing war and destruction solely for their own profit, and failure to care for those harmed by the same.

Oathbreaker is their name, and all oaths to them are null. Oathbreakers to clergy, Oathbreakers to lawgivers, Oathbreakers to the common citizens of this land.

Oathbreakers we find them: Oathbreakers in soul, Oathbreakers in power, Oathbreakers in duty.

Oathbreakers we brought them; Oathbreakers in thought, Oathbreakers in word, Oathbreakers in deed. Oathbreakers they stand judged, and condemned–

(Here’s where the invocation to Themis goes, I have it at work and will add it tomorrow.)

Then say the Preznits and Veeps names one more time, and extinguish their named candles with vigor, I’d suggest into a bowl of water.

After discussing this with fellow Pagans, I will be doing this ritual three times, at sunset tomorrow, again at midnight, and concurrently with the Solar Eclipse on Tuesday morning.

Wow! Good luck with that! :)

JohnSwifty

What’s a “meat puppet”?

I’m almost afraid to ask.

PS — Outcasting Ritual is freely adapted from the one in “Vows and Honor” by Mercedes Lackey.

dakine01 @ 171

LHP, Doesn’t Littleprop get upset being a Christmas time b’day girl? Always seemed that those kids got short changed in comparison to those of us in the summer months and all. :})

You don’t know the half of it.
WHen she was little, we would decorate the house (pink and teddy bears) and have a party for her birthday. Then we would decorate the house in silver and blue and celebrate chanuka.

Then we would decorate the house red, green and gold and celebrate christmas.

For almost 3 weeks straight, this kid would get presents. She would get so overwhelmed.

So we switched to celebrating her 1/2 b-day witha a party with her friends. On her actual B-day she gets a fancy dinner of her choice and presents form only the immediate family.

Most recently we have switched to roving birthday parties. This year she is think about having her party near Halloween.

looseheadprop @ 179

JohnSwifty

What’s a “meat puppet”?

I’m almost afraid to ask.

I’m sure the phrase has been used for various purposes (the best ones being exceptionally juvenile); but most puppets are like Charlie McCarthy, made of wood, answering to the control of the master. The only difference with the Shrub is that he is made of meat (or so I surmise, perhaps incorrectly); but the rest of the song remains the same, the puppet master flicks the control and the Shrub dances to the tune. I only wish the ventriloquist in charge would put in a little more practice…perhaps he’s new, since Karl resigned.

Brisingamen @ 177 –

beautiful! many thanks for that.

my kids have birthdays 4 days apart, three weeks before Christmas.
it’s kind of……challenging.

marymccurnin @ 97

OT
Last night in Late, Late I stated that Cali had passed legislation for Health care reform. They did not. I miss understood. They are still working on it and it looks promising.
I swear to Jeebus, I wasn’t lying just ill informed and overly excited. Sorry guys.

Don’t blame you :-) It’s encouraging that we appear to be moving in a reasonable direction on this issue…

Brisingamen @ 177

OT-OT-OT

I have finished the Cheney/Bush banishing ritual:

If you are Pagan begin with casting your circle, other faiths do whatever you do for home prayer (a spell is a prayer).

Pagans invoke Themis, or other suitable deities.

Then take two candles (birthday candles will work), name them (one for Cheney the other for Bush) lighting them as you do so. Then pronounce the names again:

“President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney,

Clergy say:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who serve (deity’s name here).

Oathbreakers, they and all who stand by them;
Oathbreakers, once–by the promises they swore on the day they took office; Oathbreakers, twice–by allowing their followers to face justice for their crimes in their place; Oathbreakers, thrice–for their treatment of the soldiers who serve our county and those whom they have unjustly imprisoned.

Judges, lawyers, LEOs here’s your verse:

Oathbreakers, I name them, I who deal in Justice, Oathbreakers, once–by the violation of their sworn word; Oathbreakers, twice–by the perversion of powers granted to them for the common weal to their own ends; Oathbreakers, thrice–by the use of pain and death for naught but they and their followers profit.

Everyone else here’s your part:

Oathbreakers I name them, and all who support them, Oathbreakers, I do name them, who am the common man/woman of good will, making the third for Outcasting–

Oathbreakers once–by the lies of their tongues; Oathbreakers, twice–by their perversion of the government and the rape of our Constitution; Oathbreakers, thrice–for bringing war and destruction solely for their own profit, and failure to care for those harmed by the same.

Oathbreaker is their name, and all oaths to them are null. Oathbreakers to clergy, Oathbreakers to lawgivers, Oathbreakers to the common citizens of this land.

Oathbreakers we find them: Oathbreakers in soul, Oathbreakers in power, Oathbreakers in duty.

Oathbreakers we brought them; Oathbreakers in thought, Oathbreakers in word, Oathbreakers in deed. Oathbreakers they stand judged, and condemned–

(Here’s where the invocation to Themis goes, I have it at work and will add it tomorrow.)

Then say the Preznits and Veeps names one more time, and extinguish their named candles with vigor, I’d suggest into a bowl of water.

After discussing this with fellow Pagans, I will be doing this ritual three times, at sunset tomorrow, again at midnight, and concurrently with the Solar Eclipse on Tuesday morning.

So when do we check back for the final version? I want to be sure to print it out

The place in History the Speaker is making:

Nan. “Peace in out time” Pellosi =#= Nev. “Not on my table” Chamberlain

(did I get that correct?)

oddmommy @ 184

my kids have birthdays 4 days apart, three weeks before Christmas.
it’s kind of……challenging.

Ny sister’s is three weeks before Christmas. We always made it a very strong point to give birthday presents AND christmas presents. Too often people would give her a “twofer” present which is just unfair.

OTOH, my birthday is right up against Halloween and I’ve never had a halloween themed bday party, go figure…

peanutbutter @ 185

marymccurnin @ 97

OT
Last night in Late, Late I stated that Cali had passed legislation for Health care reform. They did not. I miss understood. They are still working on it and it looks promising.
I swear to Jeebus, I wasn’t lying just ill informed and overly excited. Sorry guys.

Don’t blame you :-) It’s encouraging that we appear to be moving in a reasonable direction on this issue…

Really, really hope they get it right for you and the Mr., MM.
(((((((((McCurnins)))))))

Brisingamen @ 177

OT-OT-OT

…After discussing this with fellow Pagans, I will be doing this ritual three times, at sunset tomorrow, again at midnight, and concurrently with the Solar Eclipse on Tuesday morning.

Eh, not so off topic, at least it is a proactive invocation of intentions. It’s like one of the seven habits of effective people, start by simply making a list, it tends to legitimize your intentions. Getting candles involved can only be a stronger effort and who’s to say…there’s more in heaven and earth , Horatio…I’ll give it a try…can I wear a leotard at all?

peanutbutter @ 188

oddmommy @ 184

my kids have birthdays 4 days apart, three weeks before Christmas.
it’s kind of……challenging.

Ny sister’s is three weeks before Christmas. We always made it a very strong point to give birthday presents AND christmas presents. Too often people would give her a “twofer” present which is just unfair.

OTOH, my birthday is right up against Halloween and I’ve never had a halloween themed bday party, go figure…

The guy who owns the chain of “haunted pubs” in NYC bought and renovated an old amusement park near my home and turned it into a Horror Movie themed “Scream Park”

Littleprop is lobbying to have her party there near the date of Halloween. Sounds like fun to me

eritt @ 19

Patreaus’s insubordination should give rise to his court marshal, loss of all pension benefits and brig time.

He is so smug today because he has the support of the Neocon/ Fascists.

Patreaus, and the rest of that cabal should give some thought to the next administration when the indictments, war crime trials and court marshals will become a prime policy directive as a means for justice and accountability for this worse US foreign policy disaster ever.

The probability of any Administration of either party allowing General Petraeus to be court marshalled or indicted for war crimes is zero. And I can’t see the American people supporting this, even if 75% of them believed that the surge was a mistake.

LHP — I should have the final version by lunch tomorrow. I didn’t realize I’d left the Themis invocation on the computer at work!

JohnSwifty — wear what you like, *g* just don’t scare the horses…

Thanks everyone, glad you like it!

solai @ 151

FWIW…I, too, know someone who was in the Navy. He told me 2yrs ago that we were getting ready to bomb Iran. I have no doubt that he was being truthful. The problem is that no order has been given to execute their plans. Are they just saber-rattling to frighten Iran? Who knows. But, I can see the rumors spreading since our guys are seeing all this prepping.

?running up a trial balloon to see?:

a)who cheers

plus

b) how many sleep thru the test?

equals

c) likelihood they’ll move on the numbskull/idea

I say we keep yelling “NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!”

just as loud as ever we can…

lhp

Thank you for this wonderful post.

I wonder if anyone here has seen “Opus” today.

It’s ON topic, and priceless!

Hints:
-dear departed Lenny Bernstein
-”Maria”
-Betrayus

And I didn’t even know he could sing. heh heh

Scarecrow @ 192

eritt @ 19

Patreaus’s insubordination should give rise to his court marshal, loss of all pension benefits and brig time.

He is so smug today because he has the support of the Neocon/ Fascists.

Patreaus, and the rest of that cabal should give some thought to the next administration when the indictments, war crime trials and court marshals will become a prime policy directive as a means for justice and accountability for this worse US foreign policy disaster ever.

The probability of any Administration of either party allowing General Petraeus to be court marshalled or indicted for war crimes is zero. And I can’t see the American people supporting this, even if 75% of them believed that the surge was a mistake.

War crimes? I doubt it, too. Perjury? Maybe. We’ll see.

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 41

dumbya @ 11

While we’re all debating the SURGE and IraQ The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. That means that all the targets have been chosen, prioritized, and
taskedto specific aircraft, bases, carriers, missile cruisers and so forth.

Here’s a Kos diary in reply.

Thanks for this tip. The diary itself has significant problems in specifics, but one of the last commenters points out (with links) that Seymour Hersch and others have been pointing to the likelihood of an Iran intervention for months.

Remember this: Bush does not get into details. Cheney (and Rumsfeld, down in his basement office) do. Cheney is maneuvering all the pieces into position so when he can convince The Decider to issue the order, it can all be done quickly with no time for hindsight.

Bob in HI

http://rconversation.blogs.com…..edman.html

dumbya @ 11

… The Emperor ChimpenFuhrer is getting ready to hit IraN bigtime. This from a navy LSO on a supercarrier in the Gulf, apparently:

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

Subject: We Are Going To Hit Iran…Bigtime

I have a friend who is an LSO on a carrier attack group that is planning and staging a strike group
deployment into the Gulf of Hormuz. (LSO: Landing Signal Officer- she directs carrier aircraft
while landing) She told me we are going to attack Iran. She said that all the Air Operation Planning
and Asset Tasking are finished. …

If there is even a whiff of this kind of information in Washington then Congress has to dispatch Cheney and Bush quickly, else they too will have both Iraq and Iran blood on their hands.

If any Dem candidates for president accept this plan and/or say they would support it, then they must be shunned.

We can’t afford this kind of insane foreign policy.

We are not at war with all of Islam unless there has been something going on that we Americans haven’t been told (and that’s not so unusual).

allan_in_upstate @ 82

Vintage David Ignatius :
…
What smart, serious people these are.
If only the unwashed masses would appreciate them more.

I know I appreciate his statement. It’s when you hear good sense in contrast to such dribble that it really hits you as brilliant.

But, to sound really ignorant, just who is this Ignatius guy?

solai @ 158

Question. Someone (Cokie?) referred to a ‘disgustin’ MoveOn ad about the Iraq war. …

Re: This week

I missed the early part of the show with McCain and Kerry. But, later they had:

One Republican,
Three “journalists” and
NO Democrats on the show.

It wasn’t even “Fair and Balanced”.

At least Stephanopoulos mentions Edwards name, whether he’s characterizing Edwards positions properly isn’t clear. I mean, has ANYONE ever heard Edwards talk about Hillary or Obama having trouble getting elected because of race or gender?

Isn’t it a shame the corporate bosses are so afraid of Democracy that they would black-out a major candidate’s name and activities or stated positions? I’ll bet George feels he’s being sly to get Edwards name in by asking a question. But, who does he support best with this question? By mentioning Edwards he gives him attention, but by questioning Edwards’ positions he makes people doubt Edwards as a candidate. Is it a backhanded slander?

Candidates debate and most Americans never know it’s happened.

Edwards gave a foriegn policy speech in NY City recently and it wasn’t on television (that I saw).

Does corporate America fear Democracy except where it can make money from the process?

Face it, the only conclusion I can draw is that Edwards is THE Democratic party candidate and everybody knows it. Why else would they go to such trouble to do a black-out of his name? Why else would they talk-up Hillary and Barack, but only speak of Edwards in questioning terms?

I think it’s obvious, it’s inevitable Edwards will win the Dem nomination, though surprising it will be since many people will never have heard of him from the media.

He’ll win because he’s consistent, he’s smart, he’s friendly with people, he’s compassionate, he has a vision for a better day in America and he’s determined to make it happen. The voters in states where they’re campaigning can see that and they’re going to elect him.

So, the press had better get used to the idea and say a few things about him just to let the public know who he is.

It’s inevitable. Edwards is the change America needs and will choose.

katymine @ 93

Jonathan @ 84

Some suggested terms:

LBC — lying before congress

LTTAP — lying to the American people

NTTWT — not telling the whole truth

LBH — loyalty before honesty

LSETTB — let someone else take the blame

MSU – Making shit up

…don’t forget MUSAYG (pronounced “moose-egg”): Making Shit Up As You Go! :b