So yeah, some authors would have titled this post with something like “Department of D’uh”, but the fact that Congress is beyond corrupt (and I mean “beyond” not just as hyperbole) is something I think needs to be repeated, over and over again. So let’s take the occasion of a study which found….
Companies that give money to political campaigns have better-performing stocks, according to a new study, than companies that don’t contribute. It’s no small gap, either. Corporations that give the most have beaten the market by 2.5 percentage points a year over the past 25 years.
… to talk about it a bit. The study just looked at direct giving from people in companies through PACs and not at favours, soft money or cutouts, and thus found that it only took an average of 2K per PAC per candidate per cycle to make a different, which just goes to show that Congresscritters aren’t just corrupt – they’re cheap – albeit not as cheap as the study suggests.
Still 2.5% over 25 years, while it may seem small, is actually huge, thanks to the power of compound interest. The vast majority of fund managers underperform the market, if you can routinely beat it by 2.5%, you’d be one of the best around.
Corruption in the US stands out so clearly to me, I think, because I’m Canadian. That’s not to say that we don’t have corruption up in the Great White North (we recently had a scandal which involved envelopes of cash being passed back and forth), but it’s so much less at the Federal and Provincial levels, as a general rule, than in the US, that I’m always astounded in the US at how open, and legal, bribery is. The institutional difference, I think, is this – in Canada there’s really only one person at the provincial and federal levels really worth bribing – the Prime Minister or the Premier. And if you aren’t already in good by the time he makes it to the top, well it’s far too late. A Prime Minister or Premier with a majority is practically an elected dictator. He has all the power he needs, he’ll be taken care of monetarily when he quits – he doesn’t need your stinking money. Or, as much money as he does need to spread around, he doesn’t need that much. And really, no one else is worth buying except the top man (and it is almost always a man) or someone with a lot of influence over him. Members of Parliament, our version of your Congressmen, are essentially eunuchs, since we have such strong party loyalty – it is very rare for an MP to vote against their leader or party on a bill, and the consequences are severe for doing so. Buying an MP, unless you think he might eventually make it to the top or close (senior Cabinet Minister) just isn’t worth it. You might get a little bit of pork, but you’d probably get the same amount by giving directly to the party and letting them give to the MP. And while we do have private fundraising, most election costs are covered by public funding (and our Supreme Court, unlike yours, upheld strict limits on 3rd party advertising during elections.)
Congresscritters in the US, on the other hand, need a lot of money for reelection. You walk in the door, as a freshman House member, and they tell you you need to raise $10,000 a week, for the next two years, to have 1 million in your war fund. If you can raise more, well, that earns you a lot of influence. Nancy Pelosi didn’t get to be House Leader because she’s a nice old grandmother – she got huge amounts of friends, power and influence because she raises piles of cash – over 100 million for other members since 2002. They owe her. Rahm is powerful in part because of his ability to fund raise and to direct DCCC money to his favored candidates, and so on.
So candidates need money, and thanks to electoral reform in the 70’s, which capped how much money they can be given by any one individual, they need to get a lot of money from a lot of people. The result of this was that rather by being owned by a few very rich billionaires, they are owned by people who have the rolodexes to round up large numbers of donations – thousands of $2,000 a pop donations.
The people who can do that are senior corporate management. They make enough money to afford it, it is understood that when they are asked they are expected to give (oh, it can never be said, but it’s very well understood) and the returns – the ROI – is very good. Perhaps the average is 2.5% extra profit, but it can be much, much, more than that, as all the Iraqi contractors can tell you.
A good bill to examine the effects was the one to end the royalty free leases that oil companies drilling in the Gulf obtained because of a legal error in setting up the leases. Oil companies in 2006 were making record profits, the public had no sympathy at all, and the House took it up (it passed, though as far as I can tell it never made it past the Senate). Larry Makinson at the Sunlight Foundation ran the numbers, and his charts are on the left.
Well, well, well. Imagine that. Those who received more money from the oil companies were more likely to vote against it.
It’s worth pointing out that what corporations want from legislators often isn’t what you think it is. One example in terms of regulation:
Anheuser-Busch also benefits from a three-tier distribution system that deliberately places wholesalers between producers and retail outlets — a hangover from the Prohibition days that retailers such as Costco Wholesale (COST, news, msgs) want to see go the way of bathtub gin.
Anheuser-Busch benefits because the system makes it harder for smaller competitors to get access to retail shelves because they have to convince distributors that sales will be robust enough, Reilly says. “Distributors can be a significant barrier to entry if you are a small guy,” he says.
Barriers to entry are a big, big deal. What businesses want, above all, is not competition – it is the reverse of competition. They want less competition and sure profits. Much government regulation works this way. The more rules there are that a business has to follow, the harder it is for anyone else to get into the business. This can be pro-active, as in the case of Anheuser Busch, as above, or it can be passive – as when the Bush administration, after winning in 2000, ended the anti-trust suit against Microsoft. So today, when I go to my local computer store, and I say I want a computer without Microsoft Windows ™ on it, he won’t do it, because he’s scared of the consequences of selling a computer to me without it on it. (But I can’t get him to tell me exactly what they are. Perhaps a reader knows?) He’s turning down business, he’s so worried. Likewise sheer weight of regulations can make the barrier to entry very high – if you want to start a bank, an insurance company, a drug company, the requirements are so heavy, just in lawyer time, that they are a major expense.
The most naked benefits, of course, come from so-called cost-plus contracts, as we’ve seen in Iraq. With cost plus you get a percentage on top of what you claim are your expenses. As Haliburton Watch notes:
The LOGCAP contract is the most lucrative contract being performed in Iraq today. Under the cost-plus provisions of LOGCAP, the U.S. government pays KBR 1 percent of every purchase KBR makes with the possibility of an additional 2 percent as an incentive bonus that is paid if the company is operating efficiently and honestly. When KBR buys food for the troops, it is paid 1 percent of the cost of that food. When KBR constructs a new military housing facility, it is paid 1 percent of the construction costs. When KBR houses its staff at hotels or purchases trucks and equipment to carryout its duties, it is paid 1 percent of those costs.
Or, indeed, as was the case with Custer Battles, where they simply did not provide the services they billed for… and got paid anyway. Then there was the case where, immediately after the war, a bridge had to be fixed up. The Iraqi company that built the bridge offered to do it for half a million. The contract was given to a US company for 10 million.
Or here are some more examples from Brush:
- FedEx (FDX, news, msgs) and United Parcel Service (UPS, news, msgs) benefited last year from a postal bill that outsources some mail delivery, Gabriel says.
- Big insurers Aflac (AFL, news, msgs) and MetLife (MET, news, msgs) would like to see a single, national charter to do business, like the kind that banks have, says Merkel, who tracks insurance companies at Hovde Capital. That’s not likely for property and casualty insurers, Merkel says, but for other lines such as life insurance, “there are always rumblings,” he says.
- Wal-Mart Stores (WMT, news, msgs), which buys many of its goods from low-labor-cost countries such as China, wants to influence trade policy. It’s also seeking a banking charter to save on processing transactions, a move opposed by segments of the banking industry, says Gabriel.
- Verizon Communications (VZ, news, msgs) and AT&T (T, news, msgs) want to have a say in cable regulation as they roll out entertainment services through fiber-optic networks. They’d also like to be able to charge content providers a premium for superior access to their networks, which would end the current convention of “Internet neutrality” that treats all traffic equally.
- Bank of America (BAC, news, msgs) could gain if Washington lifted a cap on how big banks can grow by acquisition, says Morningstar analyst Craig Wolker. The current 10% market share limit serves as an obstacle to its long-term strategy of expanding by purchasing smaller banks.
- Energy companies such as ExxonMobil (XOM, news, msgs) want to have a say in how Washington rules on lots of issues, including how much oil companies pay in royalties on federal land leases and changes in alternative-energy policies. They also are opposed to proposals that would eliminate tax breaks they receive. Having pocketed $40 billion in profit last year, ExxonMobil may have a few dollars left over to spend on trying to influence those decisions.
To that I’d add a couple more examples – the MA and California health insurance bills. These bills mandate that consumers have to buy health insurance. That means not giving your money to an approved list of private health insurance companies would be illegal. That’s the best way to make money – use government coercive power to force people to buy from you. Car insurance companies have the same deal (and yes, government run car insurance, like health insurance, is cheaper).
In the United States today, the simplest, easiest and safest way to make money is to bribe the government to pass laws or subsidies favourable to you. It is not possible to state this strongly enough. The examples are legion – for just two more, particularly egregious cases, take the copyright extension law passed just before Mickey Mouse was going to go into the commons (thanks Disney) – or take the Bankruptcy bill, bought and paid for by the credit card industry…
Nearly $700,000 in debt and juggling two dozen credit cards, U.S. Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) had begun to slip behind on his payments. One bank had already rejected his application for a loan.
“I didn’t see any way out,” Moran said in an interview.
MBNA Corp., a credit card lender with critical legislation pending on Capitol Hill, came to his rescue.
On Jan. 30, 1998, MBNA gave its delinquent borrower Moran a $447,500 home refinancing package that consolidated much of his debt at a lower interest rate. It was the largest mortgage package MBNA reported giving to a single borrower that year, an analysis of Federal Reserve records shows.
Moran’s loan had a number of favorable aspects that permitted him to borrow more money at a lower cost than was standard for the industry, according to a review of his financial records and interviews with a dozen lending experts.
As Moran was negotiating the loan, he also was supporting a bill pushed by MBNA and others in the credit card and finance industry that would make it tougher for people to walk away from debts by declaring bankruptcy.
Moran said the loan had absolutely nothing to do with the legislation, and was an honest attempt to solve mounting financial troubles…. …On Feb. 3, 1998, four days after he received the loan, Moran became the lead Democratic sponsor of an even broader bankruptcy bill sponsored by U.S. Rep. George W. Gekas (R-Pa.).
Of course, I’m sure we all believe Senator Moran that there was no connection. I, for one, would never even think that that was a possibility. Nor would I find this, er, ironic:
Meanwhile, Moran’s support for bankruptcy reform was unabated. In March 2001, he railed on the House floor against credit-dependent consumers.
“Some people are taking these credit cards in, they sign up, they max it out, whatever they can charge,” he said. “They pile debt up, and then they get themselves relieved from paying off their debt, and oftentimes they can go right back to doing it all over again. It needs to be fixed.”
In the end, of course, MBNA got their bill. And that bill will make them a lot of money. A heck of a lot more than what they had to write off for Moran. Now that’s smart business – good return for the money.
Now, the problem with corruption isn’t just that public money is being wasted, though that’s bad enough. It’s that it hurts the economy. The bankruptcy bill was bad economics. When people have too much debt, you in fact want them to be able to shed that debt and get back in the game. Economic zombies, shackled to debt, unable to leave their jobs, unable to spend, unable to take economic risks like starting a business are not good for the economy. Since Solon forgave the debts of Athenians, inaugurating Athens’ golden age, this has been the rule – relatively easy bankruptcy is good for the health of the state. As for the lenders, as someone who has worked in an underwriting department, let me suggest the following – don’t lend more than you can afford to repay. It’s not hard, and responsibility flows both ways.
Conservatives often go on and on about the wonders of the free market, and there’s a lot of truth to it. For goods that aren’t natural monopolies (health insurance, power transmission, police services) competitive free markets work wonders. But one of the preconditions for a free market to exist is relatively low barriers to entry. When the FEC chose not to allow open access on high speed lines, as it had on the telephone lines – and when Congress also didn’t act, it made it so that most people in the US had access to what Americans laughably call “high speed internet” through two providers at most, and for many one – or none. When regulation is too high, that too is a barrier to entry. When sole-source contracts are awarded, without open competitive bidding, that too means new companies cannot rise.
The complement to this is when monopolies are handed out to various private actors. When the Post Office is forced to give FedEx business; when people are forced to buy insurance; when the major telecom providers are given access to spectrum rather than letting everyone use it; when beer producers aren’t allowed to sell their product direct to retailers; when every drug is made prescription, so that people must use doctors and phamacists (and pay their fees) – when all of this is done, competition is stifled. It is not an accident that there are only four large telecom companies. It is not an accident that Microsoft still controls most of the desktop OS market, despite not having improved the UI in any significant way since the creation of Windows (which was just a rip off of the Mac, in any case.)
When you have monopolies or oligopolies innovation slows to a crawl. The Japanese and Koreans and most Europeans have far better high speed internet, for less, than Americans. This is an industry America created and it is falling behind. Why? Because the high speed internet companies in the US have no competition, and the government also refuses to provide high speed internet directly (the two methods that work). The US refuses to either have competition, or to have government provide the services, in other words. Instead it prefers to allow, even encourage, the formation of monopolies and oligopolies.
Likewise the US has crippled mobile phones – the big 4 literally turn off most of the features of the most advanced phones (the iPhone being a notable exception). Why would they want to allow real GPS, or real internet, or anything else, if they can’t charge for it? If they can’t figure out how to make a profit off a feature, they disable it.
America is not in the lead anymore in any technologies with the possible exception of biotech, and, of course, in military technology. The Japanese make better cars, and Toyota is now #1. The Japanese and Chinese and Europeans have far better trains. The Japanese make better consumer electronics, devices so advanced they don’t even sell them to stupid gaijin who they figure won’t appreciate them. The Europeans make the best phones. Tons of countries have better internet. The Japanese are far ahead in solar power. The Europeans are ahead in windpower.
Most of these industries were invented in the US, but the US has lost the lead. The US has lost the lead because US companies make their money by playing political games in an attempt to get the government to either give them money, force consumers to give them money, or allow them to form oligopolies or monopolies and extract economic rent. With a few exceptions, risk taking – creating new products – innovating, is not what the US does anymore. The last great revolution was the internet boom – it should have been followed by a telecom boom. We should be in the middle of that right now. But due to regulatory choices, and due to political choices like spending hundreds of billions on the military, it didn’t happen.
This is a problem for the US and not just for the obvious reasons. In the old days you held US dollars in part because the next technological revolution was going to happen there – and you needed dollars so you could buy up part of the future. If the next big tech revolution isn’t going to occur, what the heck are you going to spend all those dollars on? As countries and investors realize (and they are realizing already) that there isn’t enough in the US worth buying to soak up all those greenbacks they’ve got stored away, they may decide to get out while the getting is good. And the US, which relies on the rest of the world paying for its overconsumption and bloated lifestyle, simply can’t afford to be cut off. (My guess is that a real realignment to the standard of living the US can afford would lead to about a 20% collapse in general standards of living.)
A large part of the reason for the US’s problems is that Congress has become a money and favor dispensing machine. This is its main function at this time. Each time it does so it makes the US less competitive, drains money away from productive enterprises and makes the system more rigid, less responsive and less able to innovate.
If the business of America is to be business, then business must succeed or fail not because a favorable bill was passed, but because they have a great new product or service that people want and need – both in America and overseas. The role of Congress is not to pick winners and losers, but to set up incentive structures that create free and competitive markets in those industries that respond well to them, and in natural monopolies either to force them open (i.e. telecom) or if they don’t respond to competition (health insurance) to take them over and run them as efficiently (Medicare’s 2-4% overhead vs. private companies 20% at 30% – a system which eats up 5% more of total GDP than necessary), so that money is not being wasted and can be used in productive areas of the economy.
For far too long, the American system seemed impregnable. It produced surpluses and growth and kept on innovating, no matter what anyone did. The response to that was to decide that gaming the system – trying to get a bigger slice of the pie – was a better way to get rich than to try and create the future, or to compete with the rest of the world. And so everyone went to Washington and the State capitals and looked to get handouts and to use regulatory and legislative power to make themselves profitable and safe from competition.
To recover from this sclerosis will require changing the system so that money no longer buys nearly as much influence. Until this is done, no matter what other changes are made, the fundamental incentives of the system will encourage inefficiency, corruption and economic underperformance. And, frankly, will lead to disaster. The rest of the world cannot continue to send 80% to 100% of its savings to the US forever. If the US does not clean its own house, the house will be cleaned for them, probably by the neighbours condemning it…
Related posts:
- Senate Finance Committee Liveblog, Part Three
- Obama to Congress: Insurance Requirement Okay with Public Health Plan Option and Cost Regulation
- The Max Tax: Baucus Plan Fails to Control Growth of Insurance Premiums
- Entrenched Interests Are Safe from the Obama Administration
- Memo to Congress: Why Can’t We Have a Health Care System that Doesn’t Suck?





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

zed.
Congrats, RonD. Did you tell them downstairs yet?
Why thank you, and yes I did.
Ian, awesome post!
Want to stop the corruption? Public financing of elections.
Hiya !
So do you think they should just have all public funded elections?
Hey Ian, great post.
Ian, you possess a magnificent gift for making the obscure and arcane understandable, in elegantly plain language. My compliments and thanks.
Ya know? This is not what the constitution says. And it is not what they taught us in school.
The Founders — Franklin, Jefferson, Hamilton, et al — as smart as they were, never imagined the rise of powerful, international corporations.
The Constitution is flawed in its allocation of powers.
It does not take into account the ability of huge corporations to corrupt the government.
The Constitution is based on the ideal of a free market in goods and ideas.
There is NO free market today. Either in goods or in ideas.
And unless some good, strong, honest, electable candidate for prez comes along pretty soon, we’re fucking doomed.
SnarKassandra @ 6
Hi there, Kassandra. Yes, I do. Unless a candidate can self-finance.
Make our public officials beholden to no one but us.
RonD @ 11
But the ones that are rich enough to self finance are mostly crazy or weird.
This week I took the time to compile my own list of Republican’s culture of corruption. (I went ahead and included the pedophiles.) I thought I’d finish in a couple of hours; it took me three days. Last time I counted I had over 200 names.
I thought you might enjoy a gander.
http://fluffer-union.blogspot.com/
SnarKassandra @ 9
Well, the Congress is responsible for appropriating funds…dispensing money and favors is the corrupted form of their job.
OKK is right. Public financing, combined with draconian punishment for public corruption.
Tommy Korioth @ 13
WOW! Can I link to it?
Also, did you see this one?
12 billion dollars per month (what the American taxpayer pays to finance the wars) would go a long way toward public financing of all elections.
Jonathan @ 10
You’re right about everything else but there was one multi-national corporation around at that time and it’s mainly why Jefferson and others fought against Hamilton and the establishment of a central bank and all that entailed … the British East India Company
Gotta run and do some errands
L8r
SnarKassandra @ 12
Well, yeah, but that’s up to the electorate to decide.
“You may be right….I may be crazy…but it just might be a lunatic you’re lookin’ for!”
-Billy Joel
Cassie,
What are your favorite courses so far?
Jonathan @ 19
This year? English and physics.
I would just love for the Sherman Anti-Trust Act to mean something.
Ian, I like the post, but I think it’s a bit too simplistic in places. I do believe there is far too much money influencing policy in DC. I just don’t know that this study is as solid a proof as you imply that it is.
For instance, Anheuser-Busch makes political contributions, hoping to keep the three tier alcohol distribution system intact. On the other hand, various wineries in CA also make political contributions, but they want to be able to sell directly to consumers without the wholesalers — exactly the opposite policy. Extrapolating from this study, both A-B and the wineries who make contributions would be expected to get 2.5% more profit over other breweries and wineries that do not make contributions, yet only A-B or the wineries will get the policy they want.
To me, the larger reason why profits might be better for companies that contribute to political campaigns has to do with corporate vision. If a company recognizes that the political world has an impact on their business, and makes an effort to get involved in the political world, that company is likely to be more savvy in other areas of their business as well. A company that doesn’t get into politics, thinking that it has little to do with their business, may have similar tunnel vision in other aspects of their company. Thus, the difference is not that one group has bought a member of congress and the other hasn’t, but that one has a better vision of how to run a business (which leads them to make a contribution) than the other.
To pull out the well-worn cliche from Statistics 101, correllation does not equate to causation.
Cassie,
English and physics?
If I were, oh, about 50 years younger, I’d try to figure out how to ask you out for the prom.
But you’d have to be 15 in 1960.
Thank you for this, Ian.
Living so close to the beltway I cannot disagree with your basic premise. The money is pervasive and controls so much.
Also senators and congressional reps tend to live here year round, and identify with Washington and each other, rather than with their constituents, who are just “out there” somewhere.
How to turn this around, good luck with that.
Jeopardize who exactly? Halliburton, Blackwater, Chevron and Bechtel among others perhaps?
AP – President Bush’s top two military and political advisers on Iraq will warn Congress on Monday that making any significant changes to the current war strategy will jeopardize the limited security and political progress made so far, The Associated Press has learned.
Why do the Democrats not adopt public financing as a unifying Party principle? Could it be…they simply want their turn at the trough?
BTW, I just came in today to read Firedoglake and when I hit this topic the Microsoft Phishing Filter warned me about this site, I responded to their questions (said I didn’t think it was a phishing site, one of 3 choices), but you might want to look into it…. It’s never happened to me before.
Congress persons earn about $165,000 per year plus perks for three to four day work weeks. And look at the mess we’re in. Surely this is not the best government that money can buy.
Peterr @ 22
It boggles the mind that corporations and the rich make significant donations, and somehow, as they the amounts have ballooned top tax rates have dropped, corporate tax rates have dropped through the floor, capital gains exemptions have grown and so on.
I am afraid that, in this case, I have to take strong exception the attempt to use “correlation does not equal correlation” – businessmen are not fools, they do not give money and get nothing in return. I am aware of no correlations, none, in the opposite direction – that suggest that giving to Congress does not provide returns. Combined with common sense and reason there is no reason, none, to assume that companies do not get something in return for thier donations.
The fact that in some cases donors may cancel each other out, does not mean they do so in most cases. In the specific case of AB and the wineries, of course, all the major brewers who are favored donate, and combined they sell a lot more liquor, have a lot more money, and I’m betting, donate a lot more than some California wineries. Thus they get the policies they want.
On occasion there will be exceptions. They do not disprove the general trend. All that money isn’t flowing into politics from business because business wants to be good citizens and contribute to the public good by donating.
It is to laugh.
Okay, I am sure I am late to point this one out but WTF? Did Bush want to be somewhere else with his oil buddies flanked by “Austrian troops”? Sheesh.
Some how I think this is tangentially related to the article since clearly Chimpys got oil on the brain.
RonD @ 26
The impression is… these are rational questions. ;0)
RonD @ 26
Didn’t they already make some of the parties and stuff illegal?
A great post and an important post. Grass roots support can make a difference in electing progressives next year, and we can compete, at least for the small fry congress people.
They’re not as cheap as a Chicago Alderman though. I remember a scandal a few years back were some columnist estimated the going price for one of them to be around a $200/year bribe.
“The study …found that it only took an average of 2K per PAC per candidate per cycle to make a difference, which just goes to show that Congresscritters aren’t just corrupt – they’re cheap… “
Walk in NYC.
Anywhere.
And ask what you see.
People. Buildings. Cars. Trucks.
What you see is corporate ownership of real estate.
UPS. About 5 years ago they were *always* mixing up Thailand and Taiwan. Things meant to go to Taiwan would have to be resent from Thailand. The regular US postal service doesn’t make that mistake in my experience. They’re better.
Ian Welsh @ 29
I never said it’s because business wants to be good citizens and contribute to the public good. My point, rather, is that the corporate mindset that decides to make political contributions has a certain way of looking at the company’s place in the market that non-contributing companies do not have. A political contribution is a sign of a company that looks not just at the surface of their economic place in the market, but at the underlying issues and forces that affect it as well.
egregious @ 24
someone, I have no idea who, once said something to the effect that the worst thing ever to happen to representative government was the installation of air conditioning in Washington.
The “surge” has failed. Another chapter in the Book of Bush is writ.
RE Peterr @ 22:
I disagree also with Peterr, or maybe I don’t understand the argument completely. His alterative theory is not about some spurious correlation caused by some unmeasured third factor that influences both contributions/bribes to politicians and superior returns, that is NOT related to direct chaing of causation (bribes, to getting right laws/regs, to higher returns).
Seems to me Peterr’s theory is that some industries or companies have enough understanding to see that contributions/bribes that effect leglislation that can help their bottom lines. Those who have adequate understanding of available opportunities take them. That is a theory about causation.
I think Peterr might be talking about some kind of selection bias implicit in how the numbers are run. Maybe need to take into account some industries or companies can beneift from legislation more than others.
But still, that alternative is talking about causation. See your opportunities, and you take them (honest graft, to use the term of George Washington Plunkitt)
‘Plunkitt is also remembered for the line he used to defend his actions: “I seen my opportunities and I took ‘em.” ‘
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G…..n_Plunkitt
Yeah, they want to fix the economic battlefield through favorable legislation for them. They want to bribe Congress to make things better for them and worse for their competitors. The laws of the lands, the subsidies given to a business government are the “underlying issues and forces that effect it as well” all right.
SnarKassandra @ 9
There is Not. One. Single. Word! about Corporations in the US Constitution. Nada! Zilch! Zero!
And yet, they rule their own fiefdoms with an iron fist in an iron glove (free speech? no such thing in any corporation), and even worse, their influence counts for far more in our political arenas than any voter or group of voters.
Our Constitution’s “We The People” should be changed to match the truth:
“We The Corporations.”
Correction@35. UPS. I have confusion on the brain after reading of Chimpy and Apec.
Have to agree, that sometimes it’s a go along, get along mentality. Be friendly with those in power around you.
I work in a hard core Republican stronghold. Businesses in the area tend to support Republican causes because it doesn’t piss off the neighbors, and it keeps them in good footing with their clients.
If you go to San Francisco, you’ll see the opposite. Even a hard core Republican money market advisor will not be putting pro-Bush signs in his window, he might even attend a fundraiser for the local Dems. It also keeps him in touch with his clients.
It shows business sense, and the more he has, the more likely he’ll be successful.
RonD @ 26
From the article:
“Though companies support Republicans more than Democrats ($43,000 per election cycle compared with $31,000, on average), they get a bigger payoff by supporting Democrats.”
Yeah, they’re at the trough alright.
RonD @ 11
The fact that people can self-finance means that publicly funded elections would not solve the problem unless accompanied by spending caps on elections.
cahuenga @ 44
It also could be because the economy as a whole tends to do better under Dems.
wesgpc @ 39
Peter is saying that the what causes companies to give is that they are so in tune with their environment, and that it’s that being in tune that gives them their added returns, not bribery.
The “cause” of increased earnings therefore is not the bribery, but something further down the chain that causes both the bribery (oh, I mean “donations”), not the bribery.
What Peter is saying is, in a sense, true. Understanding the larger context of the business, ie. the laws, means that you understand that favorable laws, huge amounts of pork, barriers to entry, etc… are in your favor, and therefore you engage in bribery.
Ian, I’m not quite done reading the post yet (although I will never understand how someone else read it in its entirety in 6 minutes) but I wanted to ask, is the bridge in Iraq that you are referring to the one that carried the oil pipeline that they had so much trouble rebuilding because someone chose the plan to rebuild that was on bad soil and most engineers said that they would never be able to put a bridge up on that soil. Also, after they gave the contract to an American firm for $10M, did they subsequently subcontract the job to the Iraqi firm for half a mil?
I agree with Montag earlier today.
We’ve got, for example, Adolf Hitler.
He does a lot of bad things.
But then, he does something good, like pets his dog.
Do we reward him for the good he did. Do we send the message that if he keeps doing good, we’ll reward him?
Speaking of bbq’s. I’ve got the one out by the pool cranked up. Nothing spectacular. Just blackened catfish, fried okra, sliced tomatoes, foil wrapped corn on the cob and cukes and sliced red onions in apple cider vinegar. Then a float in the pool. And of course… Lahoma.
AnnieW @ 27
Well, it is a lake, so you should expect some fishing. oh wait… that’s not what u meant.
Maine has Clean Elections. Although, as I recall, it was supported more by Ds than Rs, I would say mostly that it was the regional culture.
At the time the referendum was approved, a campaign for a Senate seat (Maine, not federal) was less than 1/10th of what a campaign for county commissioner was in Contra Costa county CA.
twolf1 @ 51
Same thing happened here. Wadd up?
There are some changes in the winds.
From Alternet:
“In 2006, Humboldt County, California, became the latest, and largest, jurisdiction to abolish the legal doctrine known as “corporate personhood”.
Measure T was successful because our all-volunteer campaign came together to pass a law that bans non-local corporations from participating in Humboldt elections. The referendum, which passed with 55 percent of the vote, also asserts that corporations cannot claim the First Amendment right to free speech”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
OKK, you got it made in the shade ;-)
Ann in AZ @ 48
I honestly don’t remember all the specifics on that one. Was pulling it from memory.
Jonathan @ 23
Hmm sounds fun. Poodle skirts and saddle shoes.
Well, my idea is that this is why we should force primaries. The changes won’t come from those in government. It has to come from us (to quote Grace Lee Boggs.) I think Howie’s Blue America is a great start actually, even with a few Carneys.
Ian,
ygm
What I’m saying is that a company that watches the political marketplace, to anticipate and influence potential laws and regulations, is probably also trying to watch other aspects of their business as well. For an airline company, it might mean that they similarly watch the fuel futures market prices, rather than simply paying whatever today’s fuel rate is. A logging company might watch building code regulation discussions, to have a longer-term view of the market for 2×4s.
Do they want influence? Sure. But is that influence (unmeasured by the study in terms of specific policy/political choices!) the reason why they are getting better profits? In some cases yes, in others no.
Anheuser-Busch still has its three tiered distribution system, and wineries didn’t get it thrown out — and they, too, make political contributions.
It’s dinner time here, so I’ve got to go. Catch you all later.
Off Topic things from TPM
1) That nice, humorous, good natured Mr. Brooks, first one to take out Liberals=Bin Laden axe and take 40 whacks. I disagree with one thing in TPM post. That says not to get all miffed. I think absolutely necessary to hit back very hard, with a good truthful and accurate punch. Brooks… I recently posted an old article that demonstrated his popular cultural anthropolgy is made up partisan BS. When he was called on it his response was to charge the reporter doing the fact-checking with doing unethical research. They guy is the Bob Dole of punditry. Humor and wisecracks as a veneer for truly vicious partisan slander and dishonest social psychological engineering.
A Rovian strategy gone awry
…‘ David Brooks compared 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden’s latest video message to “lefty blogs,” saying the al Qaeda head is like “one of these childish people posting rants at the bottom of the page.” ‘
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/052605.php
2) How more conservative can you get than Hagel, n the respectable old fasthioned sense of conservative? But current combo of corporate GOP bosses and Bush gang, no sane GOPer can survive on the national stage, no matter the sterling and gold-plated their traditional conservative qualifications. I’d like to hear the story of his decision, but suspect he could not get an ounce of support because he is honest and not promising maniac material.
NE-SEN: Hagel To Announce Retirement On Monday
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/…..monday.php
3) Why Giuliani is scary as hell. The guy is smart enough to know stuff if he is interested and wants to know. So his dangerous nonsense on national security and foreign policy is either dishonesty or product of smart but very cynical or delusional man. Take any of those three alternatives (self-interested ignorance, cyncical knowledge, or delusion) it is very bad knews.
“It’s not a crime”
…GIULIANI: Glenn, being an illegal immigrant, the 400,000 were not prosecuted for crimes by the federal government, nor could they be…. when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it’s not a criminal proceeding. It’s a civil proceeding.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/052592.php
cahuenga @ 44
This raises another question: since companies make more supporting Democrats, why spend more supporting Republicans? What can the Republicans give them that’s more valuable than mere money?
A seat at the table, writing the legislation, writing the regulations, and the assurance that their concerns will come first. Oh, yeah, and money.
The Democrats offer more money, but along with the certainty of taxes and regulation.
Peterr @ 22
I think I get it. There are plenty of lobbyists but not all have the same effect. Like the difference between Jack Abramoff lobbyists v. some little environmental groups that try to do lobbying as well. correct me if I’m wrong.
(Edit:I am not good at typing today)
Another question, Ian, before I forget, if government run insurance is always the cheapest and best deal for the comsumer/taxpayer, then how do you account for Cobra. Don’t get me wrong, I want a single payer, universal healthcare system. I think it’s best to keep costs down and for the portability, amongst other things. But when my niece quit her job at a law firm a couple of years ago, she wanted to keep her insurance for as long as possible because her husband is diabetic. Cobra was asking for their usual extreme amount for the coverage. So my niece, who is a bankruptcy paralegal and therefore familiar with dealing with “cramming down” negotiating tactics with companies (although I’m not sure that particular expertise came into practice with this transaction), called the insurance company involved and asked them what they would charge her if she bypassed Cobra and paid them directly for the coverage. I was shocked; the difference was something like $150 as compared to $400 through Cobra. She still only had the same limited time frame for the continued coverage, but she could never have bought insurance from the company for a diabetic at that rate without her former employee discount.
Go figure, as they say.
cahuenga @ 54
If this gets some traction, it is potentially earth-shaking.
59 Peterr says September 8th, 2007 at 5:05 pm:
OK, I get it now. Be better to compare company returns to a baseline of returns. But would need to have a baseline of different companies with no previous significant profit opportunities for influencing returns by contributions. How do you get that?
RonD @ 61
I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. For one we are often dealing with philosophical or heart-string issues.
I also question the conclusion. It seems quite plausible that companies with more disposable income merely spend more on politics because they have the dough.
Sometimes getting everything you want backfires on you.
I think the BS bankruptcy law that passed a few years ago is going to make that case. It was a wish list of ideas from many interests that all passed, even though some things were conflicting, etc.
I think when the housing market truly tanks (we’re only at the beginning) and many more people lose their homes after maxing out their cards, you’ll see a groundswell of political pressure to change things.
The revisions that will come may put the lenders in a worse position than they were before the bankruptcy law was changed.
cahuenga @ 66
Some companies are just evil empires that find evil genies in congress.
LoudounLib @ 55
Don’t I know it. ;0)
Wow!!!!
Bookmarking this to digest later.
I love everyone here.
Even those who get pissed or turned-off.
But especially those who share what they know.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
Hi Lahoma!
Some political favors work to benefit of whole industry, and other facor just a few companies or segments of an industry. For example, a change in tax rate for whole industry, vs. and tax loophole that benefits just one company or sector. So, breaking down analysis that way would solve Peterr’s problem, I think.
You could look at contributions before a favor that benefited whole industry equally. Who gave, who realized the benefits? Then you separate out those firms who could not take advantage of industry wide goody.
Probably some political scientist has done a similar study like that. Maybe not as broad-based as the one discussed here, but give an idea if that aspect is important.
@72. Okay so I’m feeling a little like someone who’s waving at ship that passed by already. or something. Need some coffie. *snuffle, snuffle* Everyone has their dopey moments, right?
wesgpc, Or companies that have/benefit from government contracts.
Of course if they have more they will spend more…but they’re not doing it equally or indiscriminately. They’re giving more to Republicans than Democrats, even though they’ll make more money under the Democrats. Does this not fly in the face of common sense, unless there is something they can obtain from Republicans that is more valuable than mere money?
What do you think?
Eureka Springs @ 75
Or companies that are simply evil empires.
mui @ 72
Hello.
kiddo is outback. lahoma
mui @ 77
cough* Coors *cough*
RonD @ 76
Well let’s take heads of Corps who are ideological, like Murdoch. Ideologues don’t always act the right way in the face of commen sense.
Ann in AZ @ 63
I don’t know enough about the specifics of COBRA to say. You can always mess things up – government, or not, if you want to – there are plenty of government boondoggles.
Single payor insurance is cheaper to /provide/ for actuarial and administrative reasons when an entire population has to be insured. COBRA isn’t single payor, it’s not being run as a government monopoly, so far as I understand it, and thus the advantages of natural monopolies in insurance don’t apply.
(ie. if the government was supplying the insurance directly, rather than as a middleman, it would almost certainly (but not entirely certainly) be cheaper.)
Eureka Springs @ 79
Sh*t Have we broken down discourse? Where’s teh host?
*cough* Lockheed* cough*.
mui @ 80
Not to mention Republicans are unabashedly pro-business
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Hi Lahoma! Warming the Computer hearth for Mr. Kiddo?
Sometimes with this stuff, bring ‘careful’ and ‘reasonable’ by contemporary policy analysis standards, just means you bend over backwards to scounge enough data that you use to explain away the obvious.
You find enough data and baselines and adjustment, and spin a fancy enough theory, you can explain anything away.
Somebody oughta put Ian’s posts somewhere under one cover — is there an archive of them all together here at FDL? A book? These things are amazing. More meat per para than anything else in blogdom, for my money.
All the more reason to not give the corporations they head veto-power over our democracy.
I find it truly remarkable that in FDL, of all places, people are questioning whether companies donate because they expect and get a return on the donation.
Seriously, this is amazing. Absolutely amazing. I often say I don’t understand Americans, and this just proves it – that even some liberals think that there isn’t an amazing ROI on political donations is mindboggling. No wonder Americans can’t fix their system, when even some “radicals” won’t even admit it’s broken.
That or they think businessmen are fools who give money expecting no return.
Amazing. Truly Americans amaze me. I simply cannot imagine Canadian left wingers saying the same sorts of things. It would not happen, and we don’t have 1/100th the legalized bribery (oh, I mean “donations”) you do.
behindthefall @ 87
This also applies to emptywheel (Marcy actually has a book out, doesn’t she?), looseheadprop, Lew Koch, and CHS. Jane is missing a business opportunity-
Firedoglake Publishing.
88 RonD says: September 8th, 2007 at 5:31 pm:
Yeah! Is there even an economics and finance category?
No statistics category!!??
And Jane Hamsher has bragged about being a nerd.
A real nerd would have an economics category. with posts full of talk about ‘baselines’ and ‘adjustments’ and ‘net effect’.
wesgpc @ 91
There is, actually, an economics category. I think I put the first post in it, actually, but it doesn’t just have my stuff in it. :)
89 Ian Welsh says September 8th, 2007 at 5:34 pm:
We are timid, psuedo-scientific, masochistic sad-sacks, who are afraid to state the obvious?
You’re calling us LOSERS?
Well, my careful statistical analysis shows that, yes, we do lose. But including all the statistical adjustments, I can prove it is all Karl Roves’ fault. The liberal loser effect can be explained away.
RonD @ 83
We never forget who we work for (sotte voce)
Ian Welsh @ 89
I worked for a Fortune 500 (in SF) back when PACs became reality. They invited employees to volunteer for the PAC selection committee. Being in SF, we came up with a list of Dems. The CFO explained to us, that no, our selections didn’t look good to help the bottom line. The money went mostly to Rs (only a few Ds who looked like they’d win anyway) and the PAC selection committee became invitation only. And a bunch of people didn’t get raises.
RonD @ 88
Well I didn’t give it to them. Urgh
Ian Welsh @ 89
Who said that?
Personally, I think most of the contributions are to influcence politicians to give out crony capitalist favors. But that is just from my personal experience. I’ve seldom seen companies or any powerful organization with resources act very altruistically. In my work I’ve seen many corporations and even nonprofit foundations fight, or get coy about donating or helping out, based on whether they get their name on someting, or building named for them, or do they get more or less prominence than a competitor.
So, with thins kind of stuff, my gut instinct is to let common sense kick in.
Cobra isn’t government insurance. It is a law that provides for people to continue their group coverage after they have stopped working. Since the employer is no longer paying its share of the premium, the cost to continue coverage will be more expensive; the employee contribution plus the amount the employer used to pay…
cahuenga @ 97
That is my understanding of Peterr’s argument. That increased returns by companies that donate are a side effect of their superior situational awareness and are not a result of giving money. As such donations do not CAUSE increased earnings, therefore the politicians are fools. If it’s only correlation, not causation, that follows. Other commenters appear to agree with Peterr.
95 GordonM says: September 8th, 2007 at 5:42 pm:
SF Bay’s population is liberal. But the area has been, and still is, full of truly grotesque and very nasty and very powerful corporate crooks. PGE, old BA, old SP Railroad, BofA, Chevron (loves to name ships after all sorts of people in high places). And more. So, I believe your story.
“Hi Lahoma! Warming the Computer hearth for Mr. Kiddo?”
I see Lahoma has been at my keyboard. We have five machines in the house. Two pc’s and three laps. She does diaries as do I (different names). And when we get cranked up, all five computers are on.
For you girl once again. The smartest person and prettiest lady I’ve ever laid my eyes on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZt0_eNSAwg
This is the legacy of the baby boomers. Too many of us cynically went for the big bucks: gaming the system seemed clever and cost-free. Too many of us weren’t willing to to do the hard work of maintaining our optimism in the future of the nation, and working to insure it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
My toddler niece with me and she likes that song. She’s rockin
Ian,
If I were the CEO of a large American corporation, I’d think, how do I increase my power?
I’d think of the people on my board. And of those who held government reins of power.
And then I’d do what’s in my best interests.
wesgpc @ 101
None of the above, though all within a couple blocks.
Top management was all from the Atlanta area. Good ol’ boys. Didn’t know their asses from a hole in the ground. When the board finally realized that, and threw them out, they hired a bunch of “early retirement” guys from IBM (deadwood, IOWs). And these guys were so dense they didn’t realize that the company worked solely because there was a informal network of people who knew how to get things done. When they started comparing job descriptions to what people actually did, it pretty well dropped dead.
I will never forget the week of Desert Storm.. After massive demonstrations all week in San Francisco.. the Chamber of Commerce took out a full page ad in the NYT apologizing for the protesters to all of America.
Eureka Springs @ 107
Okay, dumb ass move for sure. Was it the local chapter for sure?
AnnieW @ 108
I’d classify the US Chamber of Commerce as one of the most crooked and reactionary organizations in the country.
BTW, for the record, I do know corp’s expect payback for their contributions, and that moe often than not, they get it.
Ian Welsh @ 100
well, I think Peterr has a point, but not sure I agree it is a very plausible theory. One could say that Peterr’s theory even confounds itself. If these companies with greater awareness give because they want to influence the outcome, then that means they recognize precisely when good opportunities for giving that will *cause* the preferred outcome.
And if they are not always giving for bottom line reasons, that doesn’t cover contributions concerning tax breaks, subsidies and earmarks that effectlvely convert public funds to the benefit of their own profit.
I think this is a case where you can pick at the data methodologically, but I wonder if more fancy aproaches would change the conclusion much.
Cool new thread (though this one was pretty good, too – thanks, Ian).
The U.S. never should have pulled Kuwait’s ass out in Desert Storm. It was wrong. It was a mistake.
Bush senior was terribly off course.
Ian Welsh @ 89
Ian,
Expecting a return on a contribution/bribe and getting a return on it are two different things. The study didn’t measure either one of these. It made no distinction between companies who “got their way” on their legislative agendas and companies who did not. The study looked at progressives who contribute, conservatives who contribute, indeed lots of folks with politically opposing positions who contribute, and lumped them all into the same side of this study: companies that make political contributions. It grouped those who contributed to the winning side of policy votes together with those who gave to the losing side, and compared them as a whole with those who gave nothing to anyone.
Frankly, I hope the researchers take the next step and look at whether specific contributions were “effective” — because I strongly suspect it will show what you are trying to argue here. Come up with a metric for measuring contributions to the winners vs contributions to the losers, and see how the corporate profits shake out. That future study would make your point — but this study doesn’t.
Money matters in politics, but using this study to prove it does not fly.
I found quite a few of Ian’s posts under the Economics category.
AnnieW, It’s been a long time.. but, yes, that is how I as a small business owner with an invitation to join the COC on my desk remember it.
Edit.. And I was one of the very peaceful protesters who was arrested with almost 40k others the first night.
I think Peterr is entirely wrong. Corporate contributions are effectively bribery. Several years ago, the National Association of Bankruptcy
Trustees sought an increase in the per case fee for chapter 7 cases from 60 to 75 dollars per case, to compensate for the massive amounts of additional work the idiotic bankruptcy code inflicts on them. The group hired a lobbyist, who told them that it would take contributions to get in to see the relevant congresscritters. The amount for a visit? $5,000. On top of what the lobbyist cost. I cannot imagine anyone doesn’t think this is bribery in effect, even if it doesn’t meet some foolish legal definition.
mui @ 104
I needed that song! Thanks.
115
egregious says:
September 8th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I found quite a few of Ian’s posts under the Economics category.
—
Oops. Sorry I missed it. Economics(66). It is a nerd blog. Thanks, egregious.
Peterr @ 114
I find it hard to argue further against you because, frankly, what you’re saying doesn’t compute to me. On average the companies who contribute had better returns than those that didn’t. That is strongly indicative that they got something for it, and your “situational awareness” argument simply does not fly – if they are more situationally aware, they are aware of the benefits of donating. Occam’s razor applies – companies that donate make more money, the simplest explanation is that they get something for donating.
It is very common when studying things like this to look at one remove – the overall profits, rather than the specific returns, as it were, because getting data on specific returns is very hard for the mass of donators. Who knows what they got in return – they aren’t talking, and neither are the congressmen they gave to. Both sides would tell you that there is no quid pro quo.
So you take it one step back. If they were getting something for it, what would we see?
Oh, imagine that, what we see is exactly what we would expect.
You’re splitting hairs far too finely for my tastes. Sure, there could be better studies, but this one is not meaningless and is strongly indicative.
Well Ian, there are 2 scenarios where Peterr is right. One is that politicians are at least as likely to vote against their contributers as for them (and the first set of charts sort of shoots that down). The other possibility is that business people regularly are against things they should be for and vice versa.
IOW, your study doesn’t hold if either (a) politicians are uniformly honest or (b) businessmen are uniformly stupid.
Ian- I have retreated a bit from FDL for some time now but just wanted to tell you that this is an excellent post. I wish this post would become an article in a national magazine or newspaper.
What you say- everything. Most Americans do have a low acceptance level and threshold for what they might consider ‘excellence’, or even acceptable in the behavior and decisions of politicians, and in the quality of goods and services we agree to pay for. We get what we accept and what we agree to. We are way off course and way behind the curve in so much that matters to life.
In the US only one man, plus 525 others really decide how we are going to live, survive, how our hands will tied and what will be shoved down our throats. Each vote, and each time we say “hell no” is so important.
mui @ 35
We were running a conference in Sydney for a US organization. The swag we were to give the speakers was shipped FedEx from the US and did not turn up. It later was found – in Austria. Oh well.
My understanding was that Apple ripped off their graphics from the original innovators, some people at Zerox. Microsoft, on the other hand, bought the Windows graphics from Zerox. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I also understood that some college give courses that cite Zerox’s bad business sense for not knowing what to do with their employee’s innovation.
Ann in AZ @ 124
Xerox had plenty of bad business sense. But MS only bought rights from them after Apple sued. MS’s started with MSDOS which was the result of some very dirty business deals, first with Seattle Computer Products, and then IBM.
MS has made their own technical innovations (COM), which is probably the major culprit in their rampant security problems.
Ian Welsh @ 120
“On average the companies who contribute had better returns than those that didn’t.”
Exactly. That’s all this study can tell you.
It can’t say whether companies that contributed to the winning side of policy debates had better returns than those on the losing side. It can’t tell you whether those who contributed to the losing side had better returns than those who made no contributions at all.
Your post treats all contributions as bribes to the winning side — but even the members of congress that lose votes on the floor have been getting contributions.
Ann in AZ @ 124
Not quite so
I disagree. I think it treats all contributions as “competitive bribery” in which one side loses.
I believe this is correct.
Peterr @ 126
I have to agree with Peterr on this one. Seriously. I wouldn’t want to argue with the overall jist that money plays a role of politics. That’s just obvious. We all acknowledge that. However, it is important find holes in any study no matter how good the intentions. Because the end result can be misleading in all sorts of bit ways. Splitting hairs here is not such a bad thing. You go Peterr. From one lit crit person to a statistician(?)
Peterr @ 126
You have:
– those who contribute for issue A
– those who contribute against issue A
– those who don’t contribute.
The post starts with an example of where contributions against an issue and results (issue fails) are directly and obviously correlated. And it’s not an issue where there seems to be any non-remunerative reason for opposing it, unless you’re on the extreme fringe of taxation issues – that tax breaks granted to an industry at a time they were not profitable to encourage risk taking should be continued at a time when their profits are record-setting.
The other possibility is that businessmen are so stupid, they regularly take positions on issues that are contrary to their own financial well-being. That’s more likely in the long run, but probably not when you’re looking at specific issues and short-term profits.
Excellent post.
Great post, I agree. Very clearly written researched and explained.