Really? Off to read.

Heavy stuff this morning! Thanks for all the hard work…now to read thru this…

John Edwards:

Speaking truth to power. He’s not waiting for a veto-proof majority. Warts and all, I put my endorsement on Edwards.

Bush no leader? He was a cheerleader. That and being a prince of the royal Republic family were his qualifications for the job he’s got now.

Oh Christy!! You’re fabulous! Congressional one minutes, for those who like them…

all of this death and madness. ostensibly, just for the sake of one delusional man’s ego.

we suck for allowing this to continue.

Morning, Christy…

Just finishing the first cup of coffee.

I want my nephew home from this failure.

Go Edwards! “No timetable, no funding, no excuses”.

According to a dear friend who was in Iraq for four years with the Christian Peace Maker Team, many Iraqi’s believe that the ‘cakewalk in Iraq” zealots intention was complete and utter chaos and death and destruction in Iraq. Create the enviroment where ethnic tension and hatred could manifest. A much larger “Sabra and Shatilla”

The HBO special will be heartbreaking. Looking at their young faces and strong, yet broken bodies – the enormity of this disaster, is gut wrenching.

John Edwards is the candidate I’m supporting and his comments on the soldiers plight and congress’ duty to stop this god forsaken war are part of the reason why.

The reality of the war is lost on the ardent panty-sniffing republicans. It makes me puke everytime I see a republican toady like that miserable fuck Ron Christie get on a cable show like Hardball and berate Iraq vets, as he did to John Soltz the other night for their “lack of understanding” of the noble objectives of Preznit Shiny Things and his short attention span.

Maybe Beloved Leader figures that clearing out Terra is like Cleaning out Brush… it’s all one big photo-op. Something that will help him generate big speaking fees to help replenish the ol’ coffers to buy that Mansion in North Dallas.

It costs a lot to pay for weddings, buy Hermes scarves and bags for Laura and tony real estate in Dallas. It’s a good thing that He Himself can keep getting Americans killed and maimed to pay for his way of life (and higher speaking fees).

I once wondered how well someone like Beloved Leader could sleep at night, knowing what he hath wrought. But since sociopaths have no conscience, I’m sure he sleeps like a newborn baby…just not one in Baghdad.

That new Blumenthal piece at Salon that Christy linked in her last piece is a must read. Unable to link from this computer.

A look at the bigger picture of the long range plans;

Great game accelerating

It is extremely rare that the geopolitics of an entire region comes to be encapsulated within a single occasion. To be sure, the ceremony on the banks of the Pyanj River provided a movable feast for politicians, diplomats, the media and strategic thinkers alike. Anyone even remotely interested in the Great Game took note.

It was a microcosm of the highly complex calculus of the politics of Central Asia. Three things became clear:

First, the Great Game in Central Asia not only shows no signs of abating, but it is actually accelerating. Second, Washington is pressing ahead with its “Great Central Asia” strategy, no matter the fluidity of the Afghan (and Pakistani) security situation. Third, Washington has knowingly facilitated an efficient access route for China that leads to the markets in South Asia and the Persian Gulf. Here, the conventional wisdom among the strategic thinkers concerning Sino-US rivalries in Central Asia takes a beating.

The United States has not cared to hide the fact that the primary objective of the bridge over the Pyanj was to provide Tajikistan with a transportation route to the outside world that bypasses Russian territory. But Tajikistan’s trade with Afghanistan amounted to a paltry US$25 million last year. Tajikistan is not a great manufacturing center and is unlikely to be one in the near future, though it is rich in precious metals and minerals. It has a subsistence economy. With mountains accounting for 93% of its territory, one potential export item would be electricity and water resources, but Tajikistan doesn’t need a bridge across the Pyanj to export those.

Of late, the Great Game, which has been keenly pursued in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, has spilled over into Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. The transfer of power to a new leadership in Turkmenistan after the death of Saparmurat Niazov last December opened a window of opportunity for the US to contest the lead role established by Russia and China in accessing the country’s vast resources of natural gas.

That is the new great-power rivalry brewing in Turkmenistan. Simply put, the US wants the new Turkmen leadership to take a serious second look at the 10-year-old idea regarding a trans-Caspian gas pipeline for the European market via Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey, which would cut down Europe’s growing dependency on Russian energy supplies.

snip

Much more reading here;

http://swedemeat.blogspot.com/…..-silk.html

we are training the very people who are attacking our soldiers, we have known that for quite some time, and yet we continue down this violent, failed path.

Sounds just like Vietnam.

Senate Armed Forces Committee is having an Iraq hearing. on cspan 3.

We are going to hear a great deal of “blame the Iraqi’s” for this tragedy from both sides.

Fred Thompson on Leno announcing his candidacy received much applause. In typical Republican fashion, Fred had nothing to offer about policy (b/c its horrible what Repugs actually do) and only sound bytes to offer.

Fred is going to run as a uniter, not a divider. Partisan politics are very bad, you see. Some folks want to divide the country and that ain’t right. He likes to go round in his red pick up and talk to the folks (presumably about patriotism and stuff).

Jo Fish @ 10

The reality of the war is lost on the ardent panty-sniffing republicans. It makes me puke everytime I see a republican toady like that miserable fuck Ron Christie get on a cable show like Hardball and berate Iraq vets, as he did to John Soltz the other night for their “lack of understanding” of the noble objectives of Preznit Shiny Things and his short attention span.

When that cross-eyed punk started with HIS fucking public service I almost went through the screen.

President Bush wants everyone to keep playing the Beltway game. But this isn’t a game – lives are at stake. Young men and women are dying almost every day and Iraq is descending further into civil war. It’s time to end the game – we can’t wait. Congress must tell the president something very simple: No timetable, no funding. No excuses.

This is yet more reason that I support and volunteer for Edwards.

The bush bast**d does not give one sweet f**k about our soldiers.

And what the hell can one say to this
Ms. Halfaker, whose right arm and shoulder are gone, blasted away by a rocket-propelled grenade, says she has wondered whether her child, if she ever has one, will be able truly to love her. And then a look of intense emotion clouds her face. Ms. Halfaker’s eyes flutter, seemingly looking at some image far, far away. Finally, after a long pause, Mr. Gandolfini asks quietly, “What were you just thinking about?”

And Ms. Halfaker tells him: “The reality of, will I be able to raise a kid? I won’t be able to pick up my son or daughter with two arms.”

IntelVet @ 13

we are training the very people who are attacking our soldiers, we have known that for quite some time, and yet we continue down this violent, failed path.

Sounds just like Vietnam.

We didn’t exactly train the NVA.

Marcy is firing a warning shot cross the bows of Gen. Petraeus: Petraeus as Judy Miller

General Petraeus Is the New Judy Miller
by emptywheel

General Petraeus, lying to Congress is a crime.

..

IntelVet at 13 — Welcome to the world of not learning from past mistakes in our history. SIGH

Let’s see, I quickly looked up some Clinton stuff:

Text of speech to to the Veterans of Foreign Wars (Aug)
Transcript of Interview With Senator Clinton (NYT firewall; this is an older interview, Mar of this year)

I notice generally in her role as Senator, she tends to ask questions about how things are going, what he intends to do about redeployment, lots more tactical stuff; as a Prez candidate, she tends to condemn it, although as has been noted previously here, she seems to be waffling on whether she’d keep troops there (likely, I think) or take them out. Ie, she seems to be more pragmatic…just not sociopathic like Little Boots).

Hm, more generally (all DNC candidates)
Democratic Hopefuls Split Over the Best Path to Peace (NYT, etc)
As you noted, Edwards is solidly against it, has always spoken for getting troops out, etc. One of the reasons I strongly support him…

NPR spinning the “security, which has improved in the Baghdad area” and in Anbar. Sheesh!

Edwards just trumped Clinton and Obama. Keep pushing Edwards we will be jumping on your wagon.

Finally, a “sound bite” dems can use: No timetable, no funding. No excuses. Of course, the punctuation is a bit tricky. Don’t know if the Beltway stenographers can handle that.

OT- I can’t remember if this is my first or second cup of coffee!

anne @ 14

Senate Armed Forces Committee is having an Iraq hearing. on cspan 3.

Thanks for the heads up, anne.

Here’s another vid link for the HBO special on our wounded Iraq vets airing this Sun. eve. Looking @ the pic that fronts this video, all I could think was, “nice spit shine on those shoes encasing his prosthetic legs…”

http://www.hbo.com/events/aliveday/index.html

.Gnome de Plume @ 25

Finally, a “sound bite” dems can use: No timetable, no funding. No excuses. Of course, the punctuation is a bit tricky. Don’t know if the Beltway stenographers can handle that.

OT- I can’t remember if this is my first or second cup of coffee!

well, you obviously haven’t had enough, then…

uh, doesn’t kucinich basically make the same point?

only he wasn’t foolish enough to think this was a good idea in the first place.

this is why i have no faith in the american people. the right candidate is staring them in the face and they don’t even acknowledge him.

and why? because he isn’t ’sexy’ enough.

america deserves every leader it has.

Gnome de Plume @ 25

Finally, a “sound bite” dems can use: No timetable, no funding. No excuses. Of course, the punctuation is a bit tricky. Don’t know if the Beltway stenographers can handle that.

Yes, I like it too. Not too worried about punctuation, it works with either one comma and two periods, or two commas and one period ;-)

OT- I can’t remember if this is my first or second cup of coffee!

You say that like it’s a bad thing…go have another :-D

This page has a collection of statements by Obama on the Iraq war…

OT..Arlen being Arlen:

Specter refused to say what he told his colleagues, but of the aides said he was not critical of the leadership.

Specter, hounded all day by reporters, has declined repeatedly to comment further on the Craig case.

One GOP leadership aide said Specter may be “chagrined” by what he started.

– CNN’s Ted Barret and Dana Bash

CNN

I guess that the co-opted Press Corpse still has not figured out yet that Anbar is Not Baghdad.

If these stenographers were told by the 1600 Crew that New York was California they would believe it. After all, they both have somewhat progressive senators, a coastline and are big. Hmmmm…

A lie gets around the world, while the truth is still getting its pants on – Mark Twain

I worry about Hilary and Obama. Here’s last Sunday’s gruesome MtP. with Carville and Matalin:

Mary Matalin, if the war in Iraq is going on in November of ‘08, the way it is today, can the Republicans win?

MS. MATALIN: Yes, because what we’re seeing for the first time last week, is a majority of people now support and believe that the war can be won. This leaked negative aspect of the GAO report, which in no way measured the progress on the things that really matter: Are the Iraqis making a difference? Did not report on the Sunni split thing, did not report on the provincial progress, did not report on the political reconciliation, did not report on the religious reconciliation. It does not comport with the critics of the president who say progress is being made, including front-runners Hillary Rodham Clinton and, and Barack Obama. So people are very nuanced about this. They understand not only that it can be won, but that it must be one. They understand the consequences of defeat. Further, two thirds of them trust—and nobody more than the generals—when Petraeus and Crocker come and give their report, that will be the positive time.

Obviously Mary Matalin is a snake and so is her husband. But to me they represent this odor du temps a la DC.

Nothing is going to change.

Bush is busy re-packaging this mess into a grand personal victory, scheduled for release over the next 6 months or so.

Chaos & continued civilian casualties in Iraq aren’t even an issue: it’s basically good to purge the vermin, and even better if they do it themselves (I honestly believe this mindset is at work. It plays to our goals of control of the oil & (imagined) security for Isr*el.)

U.S. military losses likewise mean nothing: it’s the cost of doing business. These people will explain to you that when compared to U.S. domestic traffic deaths, for instance, our troop casualties are actually low and acceptable.

Our “great economy” can’t survive ending the war. George Bush will NOT put half a million Americans in the unemployment line, and neither will Congress. They won’t admit this factor, but it’s there. George Bush will not suffer that loss to his record, the “jobs created” and “low unemployment”.

Taking a step back to look at it all, THIS is the real connection between Iraq & Vietnam…quagmire, sustained by egos, legacies, U.S. pride, global strategic positioning and ideological delusions.

Nothing is going to change.

Thanks for the suggestion, PB, I just refilled the cup. I am trying a new fair trade coffee from Rwanda. Very nice. I hope the memory problem is not from the coffee, just from the daughter making us worry. She just called to report that she made it through the night. She has was appears to be an ovarian cyst, but could be appendix. She had mucho ultrasounds done late yesterday to try to pin point the pain. So we are waiting to hear.

oops…sorry for the false link created in #35. Tried to dodge the filters.

I’m sitting here sniffling after listening to Pavarotti’s performance from Nessun Dorma that Christy linked in the last post.

You know what makes the loss of Pavarotti so painful to me? It shouldn’t be, he’s been in frail health for some time, shouldn’t have been so hard.

But there is so very little we can point to right now and say, Ah, that is perfection…

That was Pavarotti, in spite of the imperfection of his life, his voice was perfection.

And now we have one less perfect thing in a world that is full to the brim and beyond with imperfection — nay, with those who revel in imperfection for its own sake, those universal fascists who believe absolutely in creative destruction. They break everything, believing that something better will emerge.

While I believe that Ms. Hafaker will be an excellent mother, it’s not her body they broke as much as her spirit; I am not certain that something better and stronger can rise from that damage when it is not going to receive the nurturing it needs from these monsters.

I take that back, there is a perfection that I missed: George W. Bush and his neo-con posse are perfect monsters.

1,590 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:

I’m afraid you won’t find any statements like Edwards’ from any of the other major Democratic candidates because they all hafta debate and vote on this and they need to triangulate the whole issue right out the door so they ken vote to continue the occupation indefinitely. In the case of Mrs. Clinton, Obama and Joe Biden, they need to draw distinctions from their Democratic rivals to paint the others as “anti-war” so that they can look “bi-partisan”.

Chris Dodd is the only other Democratic candidate that may have the stones ta make an unequivocal statement…I sure wish Dodd and Edwards would coordinate their message to isolate Obama , Clinton and Biden…but it ain’t gunna happen.

The Senate could end this thing next week if Mrs. Clinton would give Ol’ Harry Reid the word.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…NOT ALL FASCISTS WEAR COWBOY HATS, SOME OF ‘EM EVEN WEAR RED DRESSES!!

The Confused Bunch

September 6, 2007
GOP senators hold ’spirited’ discussion on Craig

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Republican senators held what one participant called a “passionate” and “spirited” closed-door discussion Wednesday afternoon about how their leaders responded to the sex scandal involving their colleague Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, CNN has learned.

At least three senators complained their leaders “rushed to judgment” while others defended the leaders for quickly pulling their support from the disgraced senator, according to one Republican senator in the room and two GOP aides familiar with the meeting.

“We had to discuss it,” the senator said.

Sen. Ted. Stevens of Alaska, whose home was recently raided as part of a federal corruption probe, stood up to say it’s wrong to prejudge these matters.

He was joined by Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky and Sen. Michael Enzi of Wyoming, who also “wagged their finger” at the leadership, in the words of one of the aides. (Related: Craig may not resign)

But many more senators stood to defend the leaders, even greeting Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky with applause when he was introduced to discuss the topic at the weekly Senate Republican policy luncheon in the Capitol.

…

Ms. Halfaker, whose right arm and shoulder are gone, blasted away by a rocket-propelled grenade, says she has wondered whether her child, if she ever has one, will be able truly to love her. And then a look of intense emotion clouds her face. Ms. Halfaker’s eyes flutter, seemingly looking at some image far, far away. Finally, after a long pause, Mr. Gandolfini asks quietly, “What were you just thinking about?”

And Ms. Halfaker tells him: “The reality of, will I be able to raise a kid? I won’t be able to pick up my son or daughter with two arms.”

Congress, take note. Are you going to pay for more of this?

James Jones – we need another 12-18 months to get Iraqi security up to speed.

surge – tactical success has been achieved. Iraqi fighters are working *with* U.S., as opposed to against us.

me – start the questioning already – this is gonna get ugly. I hope.

NorskeFlamethrower @ 39

1,590 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:

I’m afraid you won’t find any statements like Edwards’ from any of the other major Democratic candidates because they all hafta debate and vote on this and they need to triangulate the whole issue right out the door so they ken vote to continue the occupation indefinitely. In the case of Mrs. Clinton, Obama and Joe Biden, they need to draw distinctions from their Democratic rivals to paint the others as “anti-war” so that they can look “bi-partisan”.

Chris Dodd is the only other Democratic candidate that may have the stones ta make an unequivocal statement…I sure wish Dodd and Edwards would coordinate their message to isolate Obama , Clinton and Biden…but it ain’t gunna happen.

The Senate could end this thing next week if Mrs. Clinton would give Ol’ Harry Reid the word.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…NOT ALL FASCISTS WEAR COWBOY HATS, SOME OF ‘EM EVEN WEAR RED DRESSES!!

Edwards would be the same way if he were in office.

Rayne, what you said on perfection. Very nice. I am trying to send loving thoughts to Ms. Hafaker, wherever she is. I hope she has a good family to support her healing.

Great new piece by John Dean over at Findlaw (unable to link on this computer)

“Understanding the Conteporarty Republican Party: Authoritarians have taken control”.

How about radicals have taken control

Mornin’ Christy and pups,
I’ll be in D.C. on Sept. 15 for the March to End the War. I want to carry a sign and get it in front of as many cameras as possible. I’m considering a statement like; Google Operation Northwoods, but am open to suggestions. Any other pups showing up to stop this war? Would really enjoy meeting up with folks at the other ends of the toobz. Thanks Christy for this post and all you do everyday. Peace

Sept 15th March to End the War

GungaDjinn:

Hey, watch out with that Pointy Stick of Cynicism.

A propos “the real connection between Iraq and Vietnam”: The most important difference between Vietnam and the U.S. is that, to our elites, we could leave Vietnam.

We’ll never, ever leave Iraq of our own accord because, as George Bush has openly said, we can’t have “extremists” (non-American ones) sitting on all that oil, and the Israelis can’t let Iran emerge stronger from this.

We will, however, have to leave, whether it one decade or two from now. Things will change whether we like it or not.

Christy,

Thank you for this post and for sharing John Edward’s statements. I am reading through tears. And I think Gunga Djinn’s assessment @ 35 probably sums up why our government is not moving to take care of the men and women serving in our military. I will vote only for a candidate who is unwavering in commitment to stop the illegal occupation of Iraq NOW.

Thanks to Christy for giving Edwards some well-deserved press.

Edwards was long ago targeted by the MSM for toppling, they have kept his name out of the news with methodical agreement.

While they can deny Edwards news coverage, they can’t seem to catch him in a gaffe or a moment they can manipulate, (”screaming” like Haward didn’t really do.)

I suspect the media moguls thought they should have disposed of Edwards long ago, but his continued perisistence and his Iowa numbers have them totally befuddled. Not only is he surviving their blackout conspiracy, they just can’t find the kryptonite to weaken him.

Edwards has all the makings of a true populist, drawing a voter base that crosses all political barriers. And this unyielding certitude on his part, that Iraq is a mess we need to extricate ourselves from, just reinforces that populist image, because it IS the populist opinion.

What our Reps did on their summer vacations. They all went to Iraq.

Just to sad/bad that our Reps did not do their homework before the invasion of a country that did not strike or invade our country

Christy, I have to say. It is extremely effective to have the interviews of Iraqi veterans. very compelling. Moveon seems to have a project. The more the better.

raven @ 20

IntelVet @ 13

Sounds just like Vietnam.

We didn’t exactly train the NVA.

I sure learned a lot from those boys and girls.

AZ Matt @ 38

The Confused Bunch

September 6, 2007
GOP senators hold ’spirited’ discussion on Craig

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Republican senators held what one participant called a “passionate” and “spirited” closed-door discussion Wednesday afternoon about how their leaders responded to the sex scandal involving their colleague Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, CNN has learned.

At least three senators complained their leaders “rushed to judgment” while others defended the leaders for quickly pulling their support from the disgraced senator, according to one Republican senator in the room and two GOP aides familiar with the meeting.

“We had to discuss it,” the senator said.

Sen. Ted. Stevens of Alaska, whose home was recently raided as part of a federal corruption probe, stood up to say it’s wrong to prejudge these matters.

He was joined by Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky and Sen. Michael Enzi of Wyoming, who also “wagged their finger” at the leadership, in the words of one of the aides. (Related: Craig may not resign)

But many more senators stood to defend the leaders, even greeting Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky with applause when he was introduced to discuss the topic at the weekly Senate Republican policy luncheon in the Capitol.

…

Can’t decide if this sounds like a bunch of clucking hens, or a cluster of yakking fucks.

Same thing, I suppose, when ya get right down to it.

AZ Matt @ 21

Marcy is firing a warning shot cross the bows of Gen. Petraeus: Petraeus as Judy Miller

General Petraeus Is the New Judy Miller
by emptywheel

General Petraeus, lying to Congress is a crime.

..

That A16 story was on the front page this morning.

Bolten: Iraq mission will continue after Bush term

By David Jackson
USA TODAY

President Bush will address the nation next week about Iraq and U.S. efforts to get that country “well on the path” to stability by the end of his term, White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten said Wednesday.

Bolten, who predicted a sizable presence of U.S. troops would remain in Iraq after Bush leaves office, spoke days before the administration delivers a crucial progress report Gen. David Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker are scheduled to testify on Monday and Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/printe…..06.art.htm

I really can’t bear this.

Okay, we all know that the Betrayus Report is going to be pure bullshit. Do the Dems in Congress have any sort of organized plan for dealing with it? Is anyone going to have the guts to call bullshit here? Or are we just going to hear, “9/11, surge is working, casualties are down, 9/11…”?

raven, if you see jonathan here in a bit let him know I left something in epuland for him, just above your Aussy bit.

Loved that with the motorcade thing. Kind of like a Yippie thing except Abbie would have had the motorcade consist of clown cars.

Frank Probst @ 56

Okay, we all know that the Betrayus Report is going to be pure bullshit. Do the Dems in Congress have any sort of organized plan for dealing with it? Is anyone going to have the guts to call bullshit here? Or are we just going to hear, “9/11, surge is working, casualties are down, 9/11…”?

They don’t have the balls or the patriotism to outright call this thing a lie because thet’re too damned worried about their precious positions and how people will call them soft on terrorism.

This is just sickening at this point.

brendan @ 54

AZ Matt @ 21

Marcy is firing a warning shot cross the bows of Gen. Petraeus: Petraeus as Judy Miller

That A16 story was on the front page this morning.

Marcy hits a home run.
Not enough of the liars have paid for lying to Congress.

Rayne @ 38- had the ultra-pleasure to hear him @ the Hollywood Bowl several times. His evocative voice & phrasing (& I’m not much of a fan of opera in general) wafted over the Bowl in a way that made me a lifelong fan. What an amazing talent, & what a hard sought after & won perfection. Luciano Pavarotti 1935-2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=

james,

Thanks for your message downstairs!

Smiling already.

Alaska US House Race Update

A lot happening today in Anchorage, regarding the two Democrats who have filed to run in the August, 2008 primary to see who gets a chance at Don Young’s seat in the US House. After Diane Benson got over 40% of the vote on less than 10% of the campaign money as Young in 2006, and Young’s further problems with ethics and possibly the law, Alaska Democratic Party Chairman Jake Metcalfe followed in Benson’s footsteps and filed for the race.

When Metcalfe filed, Big Mitch warned here that “the Alaska Democrats will fuck Diane!” At the time, I was working as a volunteer for Benson and for the Alaska Dems on their dropdon.com web page. But it has became apparent that Big Mitch was right.

Just this week, Jake has been given a photo op with the most prominent old school pols in the Anchorage Party organization. He’s kept in daily touch with Rod McCoy, who works out of the Anchorage Dem office. McCoy has been trying to set up a scenario where Diane Benson is seen as less loyal to the Party than is Metcalfe. Tuesday, McCoy visited Benson’s campaign HQ with a “loyalty oath” statement which Metcalfe’s camapaign had helped fashion, for her to sign.

Today, at the monthly Anchorage Bartlett luncheon, Metcalfe and McCoy will be attempting to use Metcalfe’s speech there to smear Benson as a potential “Joe Lieberman,” ready to jump from the party if she is beaten by Metcalfe 340 days from now. Benson feels any loyalty statement by her and Metcalfe at this time is premature and silly, given that anyone can still file for the race up to June 1, 2008. She’ll be issuing a statement about that today.

Meanwhile, Metcalfe is openly running his campaign out of the Anchorage IBEW office, where he is employed as General Counsel and his Campaign Director of record (on his filing notice with the FEC) Melinda Taylor, is employed as Communications Director. Meanwhile, KUDO-AM, the Anchorage liberal talk radio station, which is in a parnership with the IBEW, keeps on fueling false speculation about Benson’s creds as a Democrat.

As much as the Benson campaign wants this race to be about very progressive issues and building a stronger, younger, more vital Democratic Party across the state, it is beginning to appear that it is going to be a long campaign. According to my spies, State Representative Ethan Berkowitz will be announcing his candidacy for the seat as early as next Wednesday.

you know something christy?

somebody needs to get your post to patreas before he testifies

see if he wants to perjure himself before congress or make an ass of himself

after reading this post I think he might come to his senses and testify on behalf of our country instead of his president

Christy great post. Along with Marcy’s about Petraeus.

Just picked up the small blurb at TPM about the 5 nukes being flown to Barkdale AFB and that Barksdale is the AFB for staging Middle East Ops.

Anyone know more info on this? Is this a preemptive for Iran?

This needs LOTS of sunlight!!

It’s obvious what we have to look forward to in Iraq – 3 more Friedman Units. Nothing will change until a new president is elected, just hope it is a Dem – at least combat troops can get the hell out of there.

Frank Probst @ 56

Okay, we all know that the Betrayus Report is going to be pure bullshit. Do the Dems in Congress have any sort of organized plan for dealing with it? Is anyone going to have the guts to call bullshit here? Or are we just going to hear, “9/11, surge is working, casualties are down, 9/11…”?

Reid “called bullshit” several months, ago, calling Petraeus “out of touch” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/14/AR2007061402093.html). The problem is, there’s no organized principle of resistance to this junta of Republican generals. Part of this is the general depraved American culture of deference to the military, part is the rhetorical trap Democrats laid for themselves at the beginning by saying they would “listen to” generals (like Shinseki). No small part of it is relief that Petraeus is giving cover for them to continue the war. Finally, there’s the plain truth that Congress no longer has any role in executing foreign policy. I assume your questions are rhetorical: there will be “organized plan”, much less “guts”.

snowbird42 @ 53

I really can’t bear this.

Bush is saying it’s a fait accompli. The arrogance is astounding.

No wonder he’s been so cocky, lately. He knows Congress will cave, and he knows they won’t impeach him, no matter what he does. He’s pushing the possible withdrawal date further and further out toward the election, so that, if the Dems do suddenly grow a spine and get the troops out, he can blame the Dems for the initial spasm of increased violence that’s sure to occur once the troops depart–right around election time.

These people are worse than sons of bitches. They’re pissants.

McCain gets James Jones to say that deadlines to withdraw would “work against us”.

“Surge is a success – a very important turn-around. Now talking about the “successes” of the Iraqi security forces.

McCain – “The arm-chair generals residing in the air-conditioned comfort of Washington, D.C.”…

Jones – Iran is supplying arms killing our soldiers…

Jones – Iraqi army can’t protect Iraq from Iran. Need to move more capability to Iran border.

me – will somebody please stand up and scream “Bullshit”!

I feel angry. I have felt angry since vietnam. I have to say that the thing that made me angry got a stronger foothold during the Reagan years, a resurgence, so to speak.

The fundamental message has GOT to be that fighting makes us weak. It is the weak who argue, fight, kill and control others. It is the strong who are tolerant, patient, nurturing and solution focused.

I am sick of the underlying conflict in messages.

Strong parents don’t take shit from their kids. BULLSHIT. Strong parents are strong people and role model the what works. WEAK parents hit their kids, ask them to do as I say, not as I do. And their will always be consequences when we are not living the solution.

Jesus was STRONG. Hitler was weak.

Reagan did not win the cold war. The SOVIETS beat themselves with power and control.

PEACE IS STRONG.

WAR is what killed the Roman empire.

When we will ever learn?? Who will stand up??

Hillary can’t stand up, no woman can stand up for peace. If we are honest with ourselves we all know it. Nor can a black man stand up for peace. (unless he wants to die.)

God help us, we have to see that the underlying paradigm must change. Everything else is just window dressing.

I love Edwards. But he won’t win until the paradigm changes.

On YouTube: Hillary Clinton on what troops would do in her administration.

Rayne @ 38

I’m sitting here sniffling after listening to Pavarotti’s performance from Nessun Dorma that Christy linked in the last post.

You know what makes the loss of Pavarotti so painful to me? It shouldn’t be, he’s been in frail health for some time, shouldn’t have been so hard.

But there is so very little we can point to right now and say, Ah, that is perfection…

That was Pavarotti, in spite of the imperfection of his life, his voice was perfection.

And now we have one less perfect thing in a world that is full to the brim and beyond with imperfection — nay, with those who revel in imperfection for its own sake, those universal fascists who believe absolutely in creative destruction. They break everything, believing that something better will emerge.

While I believe that Ms. Hafaker will be an excellent mother, it’s not her body they broke as much as her spirit; I am not certain that something better and stronger can rise from that damage when it is not going to receive the nurturing it needs from these monsters.

I take that back, there is a perfection that I missed: George W. Bush and his neo-con posse are perfect monsters.

Yes. She is the one who needs to be held by two strong arms.

Kennedy – Casey was here in 2006, also saying that Iraqi forces would be ready in 12-18 months..

“How long have we been training Iraqi security forces – since we got there, right?”

KLynn @ 64

Christy great post. Along with Marcy’s about Petraeus.

Just picked up the small blurb at TPM about the 5 nukes being flown to Barkdale AFB and that Barksdale is the AFB for staging Middle East Ops.

Anyone know more info on this? Is this a preemptive for Iran?

This needs LOTS of sunlight!!

That is one hell of a scary thought…..

Transport Workers Union Endorses Edwards Updated at 5:54 AM

Source: AP

Union president James C. Little said they chose Edwards because he has the best chance to beat the Republican candidate in November 2008.
“We think he can win,” Little said.

“He’s never deviated,” Little said. “If we look at the other candidates, most of them triangulate between Wall Street, corporate America and unions, and John has pretty much stayed on track with working families.”

The endorsement is Edwards’ fourth from a union. He was endorsed on Labor Day by the United Steelworkers and the United Mineworkers unions. He also has been endorsed by the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America.

http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;2979760

Kathleen @ 50

What our Reps did on their summer vacations. They all went to Iraq.

Just to sad/bad that our Reps did not do their homework before the invasion of a country that did not strike or invade our country

A large number of them also went to Is*ael for a briefing – probably on the same trip!

Marie Roget @ 59

Rayne @ 38- had the ultra-pleasure to hear him @ the Hollywood Bowl several times. His evocative voice & phrasing (& I’m not much of a fan of opera in general) wafted over the Bowl in a way that made me a lifelong fan. What an amazing talent, & what a hard sought after & won perfection.

Ah, how fortunate you are, how envious I am. There are too few artists of this caliber, can only hope that I will be able to catch some of my other idols before we lose them. While not endangered, I don’t want to put off catching Itzhak Perlman in live performance, for example.

In times like these when we are surrounded by toxins of all kinds, including cultural poisons like those purveyed by this administration, art is purgative and healing. We need so much more of it, not less.

OT – just got an email from Siun… the HJC has added a mark up hearing for today that is of interest to firepups. sadly no webcast because it’s not being held in their regular room…. but still, nice to know that they are working on restoring habeas corpus:

Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties
2:00 p.m. in 2237 Rayburn House Office Building
Markup of: H.R. 2826, “To amend titles 28 and 10, United States Code, to restore habeas corpus for individuals detained by the United States at Naval Station, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and for other purposes.”

i’ve updated the hearings list with this… and sorta related, for anyone who missed yesterday’s HJC hearing on FISA, i recorded the audio. you can download the mp3 here.

On YouTube: Obama (and Clinton) on Iraq.

christine @ 73

KLynn @ 64

Christy great post. Along with Marcy’s about Petraeus.

Just picked up the small blurb at TPM about the 5 nukes being flown to Barkdale AFB and that Barksdale is the AFB for staging Middle East Ops.

Anyone know more info on this? Is this a preemptive for Iran?

Here’s the link to read.

This needs LOTS of sunlight!!

That is one hell of a scary thought…..

Oh yeah!

On YouTube: More John Edwards on Iraq.

Fern @ 70

Yes. She is the one who needs to be held by two strong arms.

Exactly. May she have all the arms she requires at the moment she needs them.

Rayne @ 76

In times like these when we are surrounded by toxins of all kinds, including cultural poisons like those purveyed by this administration, art is purgative and healing. We need so much more of it, not less.

ET jumps up on chair, shouting “Yes!!!”

IntelVet @ 14

we are training the very people who are attacking our soldiers, we have known that for quite some time, and yet we continue down this violent, failed path.

Sounds just like Vietnam.

Just like Viet Nam, no one from the Bush family is willing to serve. The only difference is that now they don’t have to pretend to serve in the Texas Air National Guard.

On YouTube: Chris Dodd answers questions on Iraq from SentinelSource.com

brendan @ 47

Hey, watch out with that Pointy Stick of Cynicism.

;)

A propos “the real connection between Iraq and Vietnam”: The most important difference between Vietnam and the U.S. is that, to our elites, we could leave Vietnam.

We’ll never, ever leave Iraq of our own accord because, as George Bush has openly said, we can’t have “extremists” (non-American ones) sitting on all that oil, and the Israelis can’t let Iran emerge stronger from this.

We will, however, have to leave, whether it one decade or two from now. Things will change whether we like it or not.

If we (they) wanted to leave Iraq, we (they) would. Witness the U.K.. Contrary to the line we’re being fed, it’s really very simple once the decision is made. You pack-up and leave. But they won’t, because they don’t want to. Logistically, they have historical models like Korea to assure them, so what it boils down to is a simple matter of placating the public.

Enter the Dem Congress, as I sharpen my stick.

Kathleen @ 50

What our Reps did on their summer vacations. They all went to Iraq.

Just to sad/bad that our Reps did not do their homework before the invasion of a country that did not strike or invade our country

Mostly they go to Iraq for campaign resume reasons, not for policy reasons.

Ed*ard Teller @ 82

Rayne @ 76

In times like these when we are surrounded by toxins of all kinds, including cultural poisons like those purveyed by this administration, art is purgative and healing. We need so much more of it, not less.

ET jumps up on chair, shouting “Yes!!!”

Gnome doesn’t jump on chair, because she is still crying after listening to Pavarotti. (Also because chair is on rollers and is very dangerous to jump on.) But YES, YES, YES. Art Heals. (This said from the artist’s p.o.v.)

Is it just me who thinks that Blumenthal’s report today ought to cause everyone and everything to just….STOP??

I mean, I find this really shocking….and I thought I was way past any capacity for shock.

On Youtube: Dennis Kucinich on Iraq and accountability.

On YouTube: Mike Gravel on Iraq.

I particularly like the idea I heard floated on MTP last week that if we just pull back inside our bases and let everyone else fight it out that they won’t care we’re there.

‘Cos that worked so very well in Saudia Arabia.

How about before a delusional Bush picks any new fights.

One more Caveat: No invasion of Iran.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 22

IntelVet at 13 — Welcome to the world of not learning from past mistakes in our history. SIGH

Several things: First, you have to have a history. Second, you have to know what it is. Third, you must have the intellectual capacity to learn from that history. For most Yanks, none of the above apply. Refer to:

Lies My Teacher Told Me, Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by James W. Loewen (ISBN 0-684-81886-8). If you are ignorant of where you have been, how can you chart any course to where you wish to go, puzzle me that.

Biodun @ 80

On YouTube: More John Edwards on Iraq.

To me Edwards makes sense. Can anyone make sense of Obama and Hillary @70. I’m wondering if Hillary’s tactic is to criticize Chimp (justifiably), elicit cheers, then through the cheers she presents a “solution” that’s not all that Unrepuglikan. correct me if I’m wrong.

brendan @ 66

Frank Probst @ 56

Okay, we all know that the Betrayus Report is going to be pure bullshit. Do the Dems in Congress have any sort of organized plan for dealing with it? Is anyone going to have the guts to call bullshit here? Or are we just going to hear, “9/11, surge is working, casualties are down, 9/11…”?

Reid “called bullshit” several months, ago, calling Petraeus “out of touch” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/14/AR2007061402093.html). The problem is, there’s no organized principle of resistance to this junta of Republican generals. Part of this is the general depraved American culture of deference to the military, part is the rhetorical trap Democrats laid for themselves at the beginning by saying they would “listen to” generals (like Shinseki). No small part of it is relief that Petraeus is giving cover for them to continue the war. Finally, there’s the plain truth that Congress no longer has any role in executing foreign policy. I assume your questions are rhetorical: there will be “organized plan”, much less “guts”.

“Out of touch” is not the same as “bullshit”. Reid looks like an idiot when he calls Betrayus “out of touch”. He’s THERE, for God’s sake. He’s isn’t “out of touch”. He’s “lying his ass off”. They are two entirely different things. It is NOT an effective criticism to say that these people don’t know what they’re talking about. They know exactly what they’re talking about. They just happen to be lying about it.

The only reason Al Qaeda in Iraq (or in Mesopotamia) is there is because we’re there. AL Qaeda in Iraq is precisely a production of US forces in Iraq. Once we pull out the civil war (and the trajectory of history) will play themselves out.

Frank Probst @96:

My point was that Reid was ineffectual. Of course: no one will go near the fact that the generals are yes men and shills.

Fern @ 71

Rayne @ 38

I’m sitting here sniffling after listening to Pavarotti’s performance from Nessun Dorma that Christy linked in the last post.

You know what makes the loss of Pavarotti so painful to me? It shouldn’t be, he’s been in frail health for some time, shouldn’t have been so hard.

But there is so very little we can point to right now and say, Ah, that is perfection…

That was Pavarotti, in spite of the imperfection of his life, his voice was perfection.

And now we have one less perfect thing in a world that is full to the brim and beyond with imperfection — nay, with those who revel in imperfection for its own sake, those universal fascists who believe absolutely in creative destruction. They break everything, believing that something better will emerge.

While I believe that Ms. Hafaker will be an excellent mother, it’s not her body they broke as much as her spirit; I am not certain that something better and stronger can rise from that damage when it is not going to receive the nurturing it needs from these monsters.

I take that back, there is a perfection that I missed: George W. Bush and his neo-con posse are perfect monsters.

Yes. She is the one who needs to be held by two strong arms.

Perfect Day!

check out Lou’s face as the camera pans left…

Biodun @ 97

The only reason Al Qaeda in Iraq (or in Mesopotamia) is there is because we’re there. AL Qaeda in Iraq is precisely a production of US forces in Iraq. Once we pull out the civil war (and the trajectory of history) will play themselves out.

let’s also put the name on the man that created al qaeda, the man that encouraged terrorism, coddled it, fondled it, funded it

that would be ronald reagan

On YouTube: Rudy on Iraq.

No surprise there.

brendan @ 98

Frank Probst @96:

My point was that Reid was ineffectual. Of course: no one will go near the fact that the generals are yes men and shills.

I know. That’s the problem.

Jones – Iraqi forces are taking casualties at a rate of 3 to 1, compared to U.S. forces. “We find this tremendously encouraging”.

just to carry the discussion below forward into this discussion on iraq:

Madeleine Albright is great at facing the truth.
Confronted with UNESCO evidence that the Clinton/Gore/Albright enforced U.N. (Bush 1) sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 350-500,000 Iraqui children she said, ‘It was worth it.’

3 cheers for Madeleine Albright’s ‘truthiness.’

perris @ 100

Biodun @ 97

The only reason Al Qaeda in Iraq (or in Mesopotamia) is there is because we’re there. AL Qaeda in Iraq is precisely a production of US forces in Iraq. Once we pull out the civil war (and the trajectory of history) will play themselves out.

let’s also put the name on the man that created al qaeda, the man that encouraged terrorism, coddled it, fondled it, funded it

that would be ronald reagan

I can hear Fred Thompson now…
“Good plan, chasin’ them Rooskies outa Afghanistan…”

On YouTube: Romney on Iraq.

Interesting.

jane hamsher @ 89

I particularly like the idea I heard floated on MTP last week that if we just pull back inside our bases and let everyone else fight it out that they won’t care we’re there.

‘Cos that worked so very well in Saudia Arabia.

Oh, yeah, Sunni and Shia plotting terrorist attacks on the U.S. everywhere they find us. That’ll keep the war on terror going for a few more decades, guaranteeing more Republican assholes in the White House bombing the shit out of every country with oil and without air defenses.

Wasn’t it Madison who said something like no democracy can survive continuous war?

Rayne @ 76

Marie Roget @ 59

Rayne @ 38- had the ultra-pleasure to hear him @ the Hollywood Bowl several times. His evocative voice & phrasing (& I’m not much of a fan of opera in general) wafted over the Bowl in a way that made me a lifelong fan. What an amazing talent, & what a hard sought after & won perfection.

…In times like these when we are surrounded by toxins of all kinds, including cultural poisons like those purveyed by this administration, art is purgative and healing. We need so much more of it, not less.

Experience Perlman live, if you have the chance. Truly a master, in every way. And keep up your good work that I read about here, as I know you will, as all who post here will. Cultural poisons must be excised, starting, yeah, today & every day…

Hope you all are tuned in to CSPAN3 or its online outlet right now. Enlightening…

I watched a fair bit of the GAO/Walker testimony to the House yesterday about the 18 benchmarks, when C-SPAN aired it last night.

Impressive: Ellen Tauscher. She called it like it is, and pointed out very clearly that discussing whether “the surge” has worked or not (which it obviously hasn’t at least according to its publicly stated objectives) is beside the point and a distraction to the big picture of our presence in Iraq. Tauscher outlined the absurdity and significance of an alleged Iraqi police force that the citizens cannot trust because of its selective enforcement of law and order – details provided by the General Jones report. She’s done with the dog and pony show, and I hope her colleagues listen to her perspective. Good job, Ellen.

Patrick Murphy had an excellent point about his experience teaching Constitutional law about the separation of powers at West Point, but he swallowed it with his manner of speaking – he should try to slow down and enunciate more clearly if possible – I missed a good part of what he said because of his hasty speaking style.

“Rich”: GAO’s Walker hand-holding our Members of Congress (particularly the Republican ones) as he explained the difference between “institutional independence” – i.e., a Constitutional check by a separate branch of government, which the GAO represents in relation to the Executive Branch in this study of the Iraqi benchmarks – and “personal independence” – which someone like Petraeus may well have but which is virtually meaningless when he is assessing performance within his own branch of government, not to mention assessing his own chain of command’s execution of a particular policy… Oh how this fact of life upset the Republican propaganda apple cart, and how they did try to right it, without success…

That’s the same reality about our system of government, with its vitally-important separated powers and independent checks, that flew over Dianne Feinstein’s head (and that of many, many others) during the FISA debate(s). And apparently it even flies over the head of the obviously bright Rep. Artur Davis and far too many other Democratic Members of Congress, who seem almost eager to “trust” particular men high up in the Executive Branch in order to be able to munficently bestow upon them unchecked power as a sort of reward for their behavior (Davis voted for the White House FISA bill and seems to take pride in the fact that he decided to “trust” the Executive Branch with this unchecked and unConstitutional spying power). All of which completely ignores the hard-earned lessons about human nature inherent in our Founders’ wise and enduring system of separated powers with independent checks (representing real accountability) exerted by each branch of government against the others.

GAO’s Walker schooled our Congress in the last couple of days (he has a 15-year tenure and is in his 9th year; he’s the one blowing the whistle on our unfunded federal mandates as well). Walker had the guts to point out that Congress has the sole power to declare war, but hasn’t since WWII, during which time, as he said, many lives and much treasure have been lost…(hint, hint, Legislative Branch). And he pointed out their power of the purse… And Walker explained to them that when our soldiers patrol the streets of Baghdad they are not fighting Al Qaeda, and Congress ought to decide why we are in Iraq and what our objectives are, etc., etc. And he kept repeating it all, until the least-informed Member probably learned a thing or two about the duties of the public office with which they have been entrusted; duties that they so often and so cavalierly dismiss and ignore.

P.S. By the way, one key point that became clear during Walker’s testimony, even to Republicans: “sectarian violence” is really an unknown percentage of the overall violence in Iraq. The Pentagon uses some methodology to arrive at its “sectarian violence” statistics that the GAO was unable to validate and accept as reliable. There’s obviously no way to truly identify who caused a particular violent act in the streets in Iraq, or why, with any degree of certainty, and therefore the GAO declined to do so. No one ‘leaves a calling card’ as was pointed out, in these attacks. So the only fairly reliable statistic about violence in Iraq is the one that tabulates attacks on civilians vs. Iraqi security forces vs. American/”Coalition” forces (”MNF-I”). Yet the dog and pony show that the White House will be performing next week is largely built around the classified and unreliable “sectarian violence” classifications that they have manufactured…

perris @ 100

Biodun @ 97

The only reason Al Qaeda in Iraq (or in Mesopotamia) is there is because we’re there. AL Qaeda in Iraq is precisely a production of US forces in Iraq. Once we pull out the civil war (and the trajectory of history) will play themselves out.

let’s also put the name on the man that created al qaeda, the man that encouraged terrorism, coddled it, fondled it, funded it

that would be ronald reagan

What version of history of this? A lot of people are fond of quoting Zbigniew Brzezinski these days — Do you think he was opposed to arming the Afghan mujahedeen (sp?)? Defeating the Soviets militarily was a worthwhile goal, and one Republicans and Democrats both subscribed to.

let’s also put the name on the man that created al qaeda, the man that encouraged terrorism, coddled it, fondled it, funded it

that would be ronald reagan

to be fair he couldn’t have done it without a lot of help.
but by god he was a man of great effort.
hey, it must be ‘morning in america.’
please pass the jelly beans.

mui @ 94

To me Edwards makes sense. Can anyone make sense of Obama and Hillary @70. I’m wondering if Hillary’s tactic is to criticize Chimp (justifiably), elicit cheers, then through the cheers she presents a “solution” that’s not all that Unrepuglikan. correct me if I’m wrong.

No solution, more of the same gobledeggok she is a gooperlite. Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.

Biodun @ 106

On YouTube: Romney on Iraq.

Interesting.

will the men all wear short sleeved white shirts with small rectangular black nametags?

If a silo had collected all the tears brought on by Bushco here and abroad, I wonder how deep the tears would be? If only Bush could be made to drink that silo cocktail.

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Christy’s upstairs…

Reports of an air-strike by the Israeli’s against Syrian land.

Reports the Syrians fired back at the Israeli’s.

Reports that Iran has offered to stand with Syria.

Move the war clock ahead ten minutes.

-GSD

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

It was all part of the cold war chess game. Dragging the Russians into a long and costly war was seen as good strategy.

They spend money, they damage their military.

-GSD

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Ask someone in Prague, Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga, Sofia…

nomolos @ 112

mui @ 94

To me Edwards makes sense. Can anyone make sense of Obama and Hillary @70. I’m wondering if Hillary’s tactic is to criticize Chimp (justifiably), elicit cheers, then through the cheers she presents a “solution” that’s not all that Unrepuglikan. correct me if I’m wrong.

No solution, more of the same gobledeggok she is a gooperlite. Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.

Merci!

“The SOVIETS beat themselves with power and control.”

And Chernobyl…

terrible disasters, caused by bureaucratic negligence, have a way of changing regimes…

I think the war in Iraq qualifies as one of those disasters…

Blumenthal’s piece this morning in Salon listed at least six “smoking guns” of conspiracy, evidence that a small cabal in the White House knew for certain there were no WMD’s in Iraq, and they conspired (RICO applies here, I would think) to keep that information away from key players like Collin Powell and the US Congress.

And there is a very important statement in Blumenthal’s list of deciets, that John Edwards has pointed out many times whne apologizing for his vbote on the war.

Blumenthal also reveals that there was a very concerted effort to keep Congress, both the Senate and the House, out of the information loop. And that would require a conspiracy at the highest levels, culmnating with the OVP and the Pres.

And that would explain why people of conscience like Edwards felt betrayed when they learned the truth, after-the-fact. Their vote was based on trust for our executive branch.

Believing Bush, Cheney or any of their co-conspirators was a mistake from the beginning, one I have never personally made. I’m in that 7% solution who have always known what a bunch of corporate-owned liars and desperate cheats the Republicans (particularly in Texas) at the end of the 20th Century had become, and we were all presciently correct about what they would do to the 2ist Century if they got their no-bid claws into it.

brendan @ 119

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Ask someone in Prague, Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga, Sofia…

Briefly, the end of the cold war began when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The Soviets fell on their ass there, and then ran out of gas.

Gnome de Plume @ 87

Ed*ard Teller @ 82

ET jumps up on chair, shouting “Yes!!!”

Gnome doesn’t jump on chair, because she is still crying after listening to Pavarotti. (Also because chair is on rollers and is very dangerous to jump on.) But YES, YES, YES. Art Heals. (This said from the artist’s p.o.v.)

(e.p.) “artists are the antenae of the race”…witness Dylan, Cry A While, off of Love & Theft, release date 9-11-01, wtf! love and theft, yeah, come to think of it I was in love before georgie came to town, love and theft, yeppers, no fear, georgie, it’s your turn to cry a while….youtube

brendan @ 119

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Ask someone in Prague, Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga, Sofia…

I completely accept and understand the oppression in eastern europe.

but afghanistan is not eastern europe.

logically then you must believe ‘we’ should have invaded the soviet ’satellite,’ Cuba.

I heard an interview with Charlie Savage yesterday with Terry Gross where he discussed his new book:

http://www.amazon.com/Takeover…..amp;sr=1-1

Absolutely chilling what Cheney, through Bush, has done to our government. Savage’s contention is that the Bush/Cheney administration’s only, ONLY! goal has been to increase the power and supremacy of the executive at the expense of the other two branches of government.

Clearly, the Bush/Cheney regime has used the Iraq war to consoldate their power. Such that now the only remedy to combat this power grab is through politically “extreme” measures as defunding the war or impeachment. But every time the “commanders on the gound” say we’re making progress that just kicks the can down the road and buys more time for the regime’s defenders on the hill.

I don’t want to wait until the next election to stop this war. But I’m at a loss as to what can be done now.

Biodun @ 122

brendan @ 119

Ask someone in Prague, Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga, Sofia…

Briefly, the end of the cold war began when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The Soviets fell on their ass there, and then ran out of gas.

Yes. And I find blaming Reagan particularly wrong here, because he was one of the ones who stopped the real crazies (guys we’re all too familiar with today) from keeping the Cold War from going on longer.

The Soviets also killed a million Afghans.

petwrecker @ 123

Gnome de Plume @ 87

Gnome doesn’t jump on chair, because she is still crying after listening to Pavarotti. (Also because chair is on rollers and is very dangerous to jump on.) But YES, YES, YES. Art Heals. (This said from the artist’s p.o.v.)

heh. 2002. when bob’s voice was still ‘great.’

hey I love bob.
even heard him croak in concert a couple years ago.

(e.p.) “artists are the antenae of the race”…witness Dylan, Cry A While, off of Love & Theft, release date 9-11-01, wtf! love and theft, yeah, come to think of it I was in love before georgie came to town, love and theft, yeppers, no fear, georgie, it’s your turn to cry a while….youtube

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Yes. And I find blaming Reagan particularly wrong here, because he was one of the ones who stopped the real crazies (guys we’re all too familiar with today) from keeping the Cold War from going on longer.

you know, I can stop people from stealing by killing everyone including those that never steal

the ends hardly justifies the means when we are talking about terrorism…you WILL pay the price WITH dividends

and here we are today

the point is as so;

when we were attacked on september 11th everyone was saying;

‘what kind of man would attack innocent helpless people to meet their political agenda”

reagan thought it was a grand idea to sponser terrorism against the soviet union and thus gave birth to the forces that we now fight

so when we ask “what kind of man would do such a thing” the answer is “one kind of man would be ronald reagan”

raven @ 20

IntelVet @ 13

Sounds just like Vietnam.

We didn’t exactly train the NVA.

and we are not exactly training al Qaeda, either. Your point?

oops:

heh. 2002. when bob’s voice was still ‘great.’

hey I love bob.
even heard him croak in concert a couple years ago.

“Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.”

Yaeh, i saw that, too, wonder why the media failed to produce it for the public to consume?

That trend of Edwards beating ALL the R’s in all the match-ups has never waivered, while Hill and Barrack have seen quite a roller-coaster against their cross-party rivals.

But we never seem to have a lack of comparisons between Clinton’s and Obama’s numbers, in a media-concocted two-way race against each other.

Edwards beate the R’s. Right NOW, he doesn’t have to go forth and earn that distinction.

But is would seem, if the media has its way, this willbe a race between Hillary and Obama, and news about Edwards beating the Republicans in every poll would only diminish the total ad revenues derived from the political fortunes that Hillary and Barrack have amassed.

IntelVet @ 129

raven @ 20

We didn’t exactly train the NVA.

and we are not exactly training al Qaeda, either. Your point?

Think about who we’re training in Iraq.

re: dylan’s original release date for ‘Love and Theft:’

Did he have a secretary named Kennedy?
And did he drive a lincoln?

IntelVet @ 129

raven @ 20

We didn’t exactly train the NVA.

and we are not exactly training al Qaeda, either. Your point?

One of the purported AQ operatives had said that Iraq was a great university for the students of radical jihad.

Iraq war=Harvard for Al Qaeda

-GSD

JEP @ 131

“Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.”

Yaeh, i saw that, too, wonder why the media failed to produce it for the public to consume?

That trend of Edwards beating ALL the R’s in all the match-ups has never waivered, while Hill and Barrack have seen quite a roller-coaster against their cross-party rivals.

But we never seem to have a lack of comparisons between Clinton’s and Obama’s numbers, in a media-concocted two-way race against each other.

Edwards beate the R’s. Right NOW, he doesn’t have to go forth and earn that distinction.

But is would seem, if the media has its way, this willbe a race between Hillary and Obama, and news about Edwards beating the Republicans in every poll would only diminish the total ad revenues derived from the political fortunes that Hillary and Barrack have amassed.

wallmart and big pharma are behind hillary.
ophrah is behind obama.

interesting matchup.

Margaret Thatcher vs. Dr. Phil Agnew -

JEP @ 131

“Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.”

edwards is a great candidate but he really is not photogenic which is gonna hurt some

every time I see him it looks as though his face is sweating…I think he should address that, he’s gonna need every edge he can get

kuchinich is an actual progressive.
edwards is quasi-progressive-lite.

but hey…1% milk is better than no milk when you want cereal for breakfast.

perris @ 128

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Yes. And I find blaming Reagan particularly wrong here, because he was one of the ones who stopped the real crazies (guys we’re all too familiar with today) from keeping the Cold War from going on longer.

you know, I can stop people from stealing by killing everyone including those that never steal

the ends hardly justifies the means when we are talking about terrorism…you WILL pay the price WITH dividends

and here we are today

the point is as so;

when we were attacked on september 11th everyone was saying;

‘what kind of man would attack innocent helpless people to meet their political agenda”

reagan thought it was a grand idea to sponser terrorism against the soviet union and thus gave birth to the forces that we now fight

so when we ask “what kind of man would do such a thing” the answer is “one kind of man would be ronald reagan”

May our hosts forgiven us for arguing about history, but this is wrong. There is nothing in the arming of the Afghan muhajedeen that led inevitably to 9-11. It primarily the basing of troops in Saudi Arabia. Secondarily, it was the sanctions regime against Iraq and our support and funding of the Israeli occupation.

I’m an isolationist at this point, but screw it, I still don’t have a problem with having funded the Afghan resistance, no matter who was involved in it, and I’ll warrant that’s the way most of the world sees Iraq and Afghanistan now.

perris @ 137

JEP @ 131

“Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.”

edwards is a great candidate but he really is not photogenic which is gonna hurt some

every time I see him it looks as though his face is sweating…I think he should address that, he’s gonna need every edge he can get

Or ‘I Sweat For You’ as a campaign theme….

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 124

brendan @ 119

Ask someone in Prague, Warsaw, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest, Vilnius, Riga, Sofia…

I completely accept and understand the oppression in eastern europe.

but afghanistan is not eastern europe.

logically then you must believe ‘we’ should have invaded the soviet ’satellite,’ Cuba.

Your question is right on. There was no reason for us to enter Afghanistan other than to have an itchy confrontation with the Russians without having a confrontation. If we had never interfered, the Russians would have done themselves in and Afghanistan would not have had its War Lords armed and trained by the US. The US had no plan other than to defeat the Russians and hopefully destroy Russia. So, we left after the Russians retreated. Our policy didn’t give a damn about the Afghan people and who took over the country. It was not an error in judgement; it was indifference towards the Afghan people. The country was left devastated.

perris @ 128

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 115

why was defeating the soviets in afghanistan our job?
why was it a good thing to do?

i know that’s the accepted view but why?

Yes. And I find blaming Reagan particularly wrong here, because he was one of the ones who stopped the real crazies (guys we’re all too familiar with today) from keeping the Cold War from going on longer.

you know, I can stop people from stealing by killing everyone including those that never steal

the ends hardly justifies the means when we are talking about terrorism…you WILL pay the price WITH dividends

and here we are today

the point is as so;

when we were attacked on september 11th everyone was saying;

‘what kind of man would attack innocent helpless people to meet their political agenda”

reagan thought it was a grand idea to sponser terrorism against the soviet union and thus gave birth to the forces that we now fight

so when we ask “what kind of man would do such a thing” the answer is “one kind of man would be ronald reagan”

Perris – Right on! The Reagan Regime sponsored terrorism from Latin America to Iraq to Afghanistan. He firmly believed that the only good Commie was a dead Commie. And, better dead than Red. Reagan was no Mr. Nice Guy.

Our policy didn’t give a damn about the Afghan people and who took over the country. It was not an error in judgement; it was indifference towards the Afghan people. The country was left devastated

I think that is really the key point here. The Afghan people being used, for decades, as pawns in a “superpower” chess game. No wonder they turned to the Taliban and the poppy fields.

think progress has a few nice leads today, this one on top now;

Judge strikes down part of Patriot Act. Today, U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero struck down part of the revised Patriot Act, ruling that investigators must obtain a court’s approval before the order Internet providers to turn over records without telling customers. Marrero said the “recently rewritten Patriot Act ‘offends the fundamental constitutional principles of checks and balances and separation of powers.’”

Iraq war=Harvard for Al Qaeda

Precisely. We opened up s campus for global jihadists when we went into Iraq. They get their training there, and then go put their knowledge to work in other conutries.

perris @ 137

JEP @ 131

“Interesting Quinipiac poll showing Edwards ascending and beating all goop candidates by larger margins than either minority candidate.”

edwards is a great candidate but he really is not photogenic which is gonna hurt some

every time I see him it looks as though his face is sweating…I think he should address that, he’s gonna need every edge he can get

Bush talks a lot about “hard work” but Edwards lives it. Sweat is real, so is Edwards.

And as for being photogenic, that was interesting bait, but I’m not biting.

As yet, that is the first time I have ever heard someone say anything negative about Edwards appearance, other than “he’s too handsome, they’ll call him a pretty-boy,” which Annie Get Your Gun Coulter on the right tried to promote to her own detriment, and “The Mean Girls for Hillary” on the left tried to do with the haircut hoot.

But despite all this organized opposition, Edwards is still here, he’s still beating the R’s in all the polls, and he’s still holding the lead in Iowa.

That fashionista attack did little to damage Edwards, it may have actually helped expose the conspiracy against him in the US media and on some of the more-partisan blogs.

reagan and the contras:

‘the only good wedding party is a dead wedding party’

Since this thread has persisted on the topic perris and I started, let me just say one thing. I might be misguided or naive in separating our policy of arming the Afghans from, say, that of arming the Contras — approving the former and decrying the latter –that’s what I’m doing. Defeating the Soviets militarily directly led to them withdrawing the Red Army from Eastern and Central Europe.

As for your charge that I was indifferent to the Afghans — there’s some truth to that, at least if you compare my concern for Europeans to my concern for them. But you may be guilty of the same: the Russians had invaded, the Afghans resisted, and they may have killed as many or more if we had armed them or not.

brendan @ 139

I’m an isolationist at this point, but screw it, I still don’t have a problem with having funded the Afghan resistance, no matter who was involved in it, and I’ll warrant that’s the way most of the world sees Iraq and Afghanistan now.

You are aware that we started that proxy war… that Afghanistan was relatively calm before we stirred things up? And, I presume that you are aware that the Soviet Union was falling apart at the seams well before the onset of the war in Afghanistan? There’s a ton of evidence in that regard.

Second, I take issue with your imprecise notion that arming the Afghan mujahideen had nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, one can see the roots of that problem going back to 1983, when Egypt and other countries began emptying out their jails of their problem Sunnis (such as those in the Muslim Brotherhood) and sending them to Afghanistan in the hopes that they’d be killed in that jihad (that is likely why Ayman al-Zawahiri was released after only three years imprisonment for his involvement with the Sadat assassination). Additionally, we created complex arrangements with the Saudis and the Pakistani ISI to move money to Afghanistan, and those routes are still controlled by the ISI, and are being used to fund the Taliban now (and some of what is keeping the Taliban going may be money we gave the ISI. We made them the gatekeeper, and that’s a role they still play.

We gave not only the Afghans, but those transient Sunnis, as well, training in insurgency tactics, funded them, and helped them develop the very same routes of travel between Afghanistan and Pakistan that they use now. Osama bin Laden, in fact, built not just training camps, but rudimentary roads in the mountains. He was, after all, trained as a civil engineer in British schools.

We gave him and his people a foothold in Afghanistan, and then, when Bush, Sr., struck a deal with Gorbachev to end the war, Bush agreed to just walk away from the country, leaving it to fall into yet another civil war, this time between the warlords and the Taliban.

If there were a million people killed Afghanistan, we got the ball rolling on that one, and for no good reason at all.

The Reaganites and Brzezinski have been congratulating themselves ever since for something of which they had very little to do. If you will read the CIA assessments of that period (and the later assessments in which the CIA admitted being mistaken by half in those estimates of Soviet economic and military strength), the Soviet Union was collapsing, anyway, from massive internal corruption that went from the Inner Party right down to the manufacturing sector.

We made al-Qaeda, nurtured it, and then, by design, tricked the Saudis into keeping our soldiers on their soil, where those fundamentalist Islamists would take great umbrage with us for doing so. All this occurred as the Soviet Union was dissolving.

We had to have an enemy to take the place of the Soviet Union, so we created one, all through the Reagan and Bush I years, and their anger germinated and grew through the Clinton administration, as Clinton continued the very same policies.

Now, with Bush II, we have an endless “war on terror” on which to spend a cornucopia of defense dollars. And that’s history, not imagination.

montag @ 149

brendan @ 139

I’m an isolationist at this point, but screw it, I still don’t have a problem with having funded the Afghan resistance, no matter who was involved in it, and I’ll warrant that’s the way most of the world sees Iraq and Afghanistan now.

You are aware that we started that proxy war… that Afghanistan was relatively calm before we stirred things up? And, I presume that you are aware that the Soviet Union was falling apart at the seams well before the onset of the war in Afghanistan? There’s a ton of evidence in that regard.

Second, I take issue with your imprecise notion that arming the Afghan mujahideen had nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, one can see the roots of that problem going back to 1983, when Egypt and other countries began emptying out their jails of their problem Sunnis (such as those in the Muslim Brotherhood) and sending them to Afghanistan in the hopes that they’d be killed in that jihad (that is likely why Ayman al-Zawahiri was released after only three years imprisonment for his involvement with the Sadat assassination). Additionally, we created complex arrangements with the Saudis and the Pakistani ISI to move money to Afghanistan, and those routes are still controlled by the ISI, and are being used to fund the Taliban now (and some of what is keeping the Taliban going may be money we gave the ISI. We made them the gatekeeper, and that’s a role they still play.

We gave not only the Afghans, but those transient Sunnis, as well, training in insurgency tactics, funded them, and helped them develop the very same routes of travel between Afghanistan and Pakistan that they use now. Osama bin Laden, in fact, built not just training camps, but rudimentary roads in the mountains. He was, after all, trained as a civil engineer in British schools.

We gave him and his people a foothold in Afghanistan, and then, when Bush, Sr., struck a deal with Gorbachev to end the war, Bush agreed to just walk away from the country, leaving it to fall into yet another civil war, this time between the warlords and the Taliban.

If there were a million people killed Afghanistan, we got the ball rolling on that one, and for no good reason at all.

The Reaganites and Brzezinski have been congratulating themselves ever since for something of which they had very little to do. If you will read the CIA assessments of that period (and the later assessments in which the CIA admitted being mistaken by half in those estimates of Soviet economic and military strength), the Soviet Union was collapsing, anyway, from massive internal corruption that went from the Inner Party right down to the manufacturing sector.

We made al-Qaeda, nurtured it, and then, by design, tricked the Saudis into keeping our soldiers on their soil, where those fundamentalist Islamists would take great umbrage with us for doing so. All this occurred as the Soviet Union was dissolving.

We had to have an enemy to take the place of the Soviet Union, so we created one, all through the Reagan and Bush I years, and their anger germinated and grew through the Clinton administration, as Clinton continued the very same policies.

Now, with Bush II, we have an endless “war on terror” on which to spend a cornucopia of defense dollars. And that’s history, not imagination.

Your strongest point here is the first: that there need not have been an Afghan resistance in which a million people were killed. That’s an argument I’m open, and, in fact, a reason I said “screw it” was to kind of acknowledge I was opining a bit heedlessly here.

The stuff about arming and funding OBL and Zaw. is not new to me, however — that’s the point I was addressing. You’re making the mistake of concluding that because 9-11 happened it was inevitable from the beginning of “our” creation of them (there’s a logician’s phrase for this, help me), while I’m saying the point at which it became something like inevitable was the stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia. There might have been a world with OBL’s and Zaw’s running around doing relatively little harm if not for the central, intervening event of the Gulf War, and that wasn’t connected to the muhajadeen of Afghanistan, as far as I know.

Your last, summarizing argument is satisfying emotionally but not empirically: “We had to have an enemy to take the place of the Soviet Union, so we created one, all through the Reagan and Bush I years, and their anger germinated and grew through the Clinton administration, as Clinton continued the very same policies.” I agree that there are constellations of entrenched interests that “need” an enemy, but why wasn’t it China, or Russia again, or simply Iran instead of these crazy jihadis?

Yep, I just emailed it to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi:

No timetable, no funding.
No excuses.

http://reid.senate.gov/contact/email_form.cfm

http://www.speaker.gov/contact

montag:

I’ve always been skeptical of the argument that “the Soviet Union was collapsing, anyway.” It may have been inevitable, but that inevitable result might still have come after twenty years more of occupying Eastern Erurope. You could say we’re “collapsing”, but we’ll still have our paws on Iraq for at least another decade. I don’t know numbers, but I expect the invasion of Afghanistan ruined the Soviet economy more quickly than our invasion(s) in the Middle East will end up ruining us.

I wonder how much of that ‘aid’ to the ‘freedom fighters’ in afghanistan actually had strings attached in terms of where the weaponry was purchased. All of it I’m sure.

So far from being designed to win anybody’s freedom it was actually a business decision.

The drift of this comment is to the effect that the Iraqis are unappreciative of all that Americans have done for them since the escalation of war against and formal occupation of their sovereign nation in March 2003. The Iraqis can most certainly do quite well without America’s brand of assistance, thank you very much. And no the Americans cannot help themselves to Iraq’s oil reserves in exchange said ‘assistance.’ Americans should be getting with the program, not the pogrom.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 153

I wonder how much of that ‘aid’ to the ‘freedom fighters’ in afghanistan actually had strings attached in terms of where the weaponry was purchased. All of it I’m sure.

So far from being designed to win anybody’s freedom it was actually a business decision.

I sincerely respect your opinion on Afghanistan in the 80’s and, believe me, I’m not blithely sure I’m right. This last comment, however, is echo-chamber talk. The Marshall Plan was a “business decision”, too. That doesn’t make it a bad thing. The “business decision” to pry Eastern Europe out of Russia’s hands was not bad, either.

brendan @ 155

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 153

I wonder how much of that ‘aid’ to the ‘freedom fighters’ in afghanistan actually had strings attached in terms of where the weaponry was purchased. All of it I’m sure.

So far from being designed to win anybody’s freedom it was actually a business decision.

I sincerely respect your opinion on Afghanistan in the 80’s and, believe me, I’m not blithely sure I’m right. This last comment, however, is echo-chamber talk. The Marshall Plan was a “business decision”, too. That doesn’t make it a bad thing. The “business decision” to pry Eastern Europe out of Russia’s hands was not bad, either.

the flaw in comparing the Marshall Plan to weaponry for the glorious Muhajadeen freedom fighters is the difference between rebuilding devasted cities and waging war with the ultimate Taliban victory.

mui @ 34

… Here’s last … Sunday’s gruesome MtP. with Carville and Matalin: …

Obviously Mary Matalin is a snake and so is her husband. But to me they represent this odor du temps a la DC.

That couple represent the nexus of the Clinton-Bush families.

Ed*ard Teller @ 62

Alaska US House Race Update

A lot happening today in Anchorage, …

Great story, but it’s still very difficult for me to get a handle on what exactly is happening and how we here at Progressives R Us could help (aside from giving Benson some money).

Can you outline what the issues are or what the voters are interested in within Alaska? Does the list of issues they are concerned with really go beyond the local economy and other local things?

What does Benson NEED to win? Ideas, a plan, just money, what?

oddmommy @ 88

Is it just me who thinks that Blumenthal’s report today ought to cause everyone and everything to just….STOP??

I mean, I find this really shocking….and I thought I was way past any capacity for shock.

This is very strong ammunition for the “Let’s get out of Iraq NOW” caucus and the “Let’s kick out Bush & Co NOW” movement.

Events are happening quickly. Congress has to move equally quickly to kick out Shooter. And, they need to make it a very public investigation, so everybody can see what has happened and how he was involved.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 124

I completely accept and understand the oppression in eastern europe.

but afghanistan is not eastern europe.

logically then you must believe ‘we’ should have invaded the soviet ’satellite,’ Cuba.

It can be argued we “fought” the Soviet Union for many reasons. The primary one it had to be founded on was self-defense. Constitutionally there is none other which is legal.

We went to Afghanistan to undermine the Soviets as part of our larger plan. Apparently it was a plan of Brzezinski’s, but I personally see in it the touch of Jimmy Carter. As we were assisting Islamic people we were beginning to establish a long-term involvement in the Middle East — that was something Carter wanted to really work.

The personal effort he made to create peace between Israel and Egypt showed his fundamental Christian belief that we can make peace and it will be good for America as well as others.

You could say Bill Clinton was continuing that policy with our involvement in Kosovo, helping Muslims in Bosnia was blocked by Europeans and Americans weren’t much in favor of it either.

However, after the Reagan admin. had supported both sides in the Iraq-Iran war it was clear they weren’t going to allow the simple plan to continue. It obviously wasn’t going to remain a secret for long that we had helped Iraq as well as the more religious Iranians.

Why the Republicans changed the plan is unclear.

Now we are at the end of that Republican plan and we have to have a good way forward.

We obviously need a time of peace to recoup our strength and coherence. We need time to re-establish some friendly relationships. And, we need time to look with fresh eyes at the world and that takes new people who haven’t been so directly involved or emotionally stressed by the recent events. Obviously it calls for a Democratic president.

Having made a mess of thing the Republicans need to stand down for a while and rethink things political.

Democrats need to continue sorting-out their overall position in Congress.

But, the new Democratic president needs some coherency and direction from the start. He (or she) does need, as Clinton points out, to be able to hit the ground running. But, we need to look very carefully at what the Democratic presidential candidates are saying today, so we’ll know what direction that new president would run.

brendan @ 148

Since this thread has persisted on the topic perris and I started, let me just say one thing. I might be misguided or naive in separating our policy of arming the Afghans from, say, that of arming the Contras — approving the former and decrying the latter –that’s what I’m doing. Defeating the Soviets militarily directly led to them withdrawing the Red Army from Eastern and Central Europe.

As for your charge that I was indifferent to the Afghans — there’s some truth to that, at least if you compare my concern for Europeans to my concern for them. But you may be guilty of the same: the Russians had invaded, the Afghans resisted, and they may have killed as many or more if we had armed them or not.

We certainly weren’t going to worry about someone else’s feelings when we considered our national security!

They did get their Democracy after all, despite a lot of interference or help from the Pakistanis. It was much later that Al Qaeda with Osama bin Laden’s influence somehow turned rabid. I’m certain there’s a great story in there somewhere.

OTOH, there was a law against supporting the Contras (the Boland Amendment) and Reagan ignored it (or at least someone in his admin did).

I think the Carter idea was that there had been a democratic election in Nicaragua and we were determined to see if real Democracy might take hold. The theory had been that Soviets would set up dictatorships they could control and here there might actually be a strong point against Communism.

The Republican assistance given to Contras showed once again that Reagan et al didn’t care about Democrat Law and just wanted to turn every 3rd world country into a dictatorship they could control. They’ve tried to do the same in Iraq and it’s failing badly.

In Nicaragua a curious thing has happened — Jimmy Carter’s faith that it MIGHT turn into a Democracy has pretty much prevailed. It isn’t America or Canada or Germany, but it might eventually get there. Reagan was dead wrong!

brendan @ 150
…
I agree that there are constellations of entrenched interests that “need” an enemy, but why wasn’t it China, or Russia again, or simply Iran instead of these crazy jihadis?

Militarists just wanna have fun, not die.

Biodun @ 70

On YouTube: Hillary Clinton on what troops would do in her administration.

argh! I got to the “we cannot let al-Qaeda … “

She’s afraid of c. 280-1,500 at best terrorists and 300 million Americans have to pay for her Bush-Kool-Aid drinks? Not to mention the 1,032,938 Iraqis already died for The Big Lie?

AQI is a hobgoblin, very nearly an urban myth — hardly the key factor that should drive foreign policy. Bah!