Given my post here last Thursday about the need for Democratic presidential candidates to take the lead in ending the Iraq occupation (a theme that was promptly swiped taken up by Atrios and at Daily Kos), it was heartening to read Christy’s post earlier today describing John Edwards’ decision to put Iraq on his campaign’s front burner:
President Bush wants everyone to keep playing the Beltway game. But this isn’t a game – lives are at stake. Young men and women are dying almost every day and Iraq is descending further into civil war. It’s time to end the game – we can’t wait. Congress must tell the president something very simple: No timetable, no funding. No excuses.
But even as Edwards (and other candidates who have taken stronger Iraq stands, like Richardson, Dodd, Kucinich, and even Joe Biden in his own perverse way) seeks to differentiate himself to Democratic primary voters, he should remember who the real target is, and it isn’t Congress.
As incredibly enjoyable effective as it can be to beat the Democrats on Capitol Hill with a stick for being too cowardly to stand up to Dubya, they might find it easier to be brave if a prominent party spokesperson — like, say, one of the presidential candidates — was articulating a broad, thematic message on the war (and national security in general) that they could get behind. In a post last December, when the current escalation was announced, I wrote:
The crux of the problem is that it’s not just about whether Democrats can force a withdrawal; it’s about why we’re withdrawing.
Given a divided government for the next two years, we’re locked in a battle of narratives with the Republicans. Dubya isn’t insane (at least not entirely) — he (or Cheney or Rove, or whoever) is making a calculated gamble that the long-term benefit of sticking with the “resolve” narrative will overcome the short-term unpopularity of escalating the war… and that whatever fuss they might raise, Democrats won’t be able to make them pay a permanent price for it.
So the absence of an effective Democratic narrative isn’t just an abstract issue. At this point, it’s actually enabling the Bushites to lengthen the war.
More than eight months later, I think that’s still the case. As necessary as it is to exhaustively debunk the lies that the Bushites tell, it’s just as important not to get lost in the details — because I guarantee you that what the “Bush Dogs” are worried about (and what keeps them from voting to end the war) is the voters in their districts who aren’t persuaded by facts, relying instead on the kind of visceral appeals Karl Rove and Co. specialize in.
If you want to have a chance of persuading those voters, I think it’s important to present the “surge” as not just a failure but a moral failure by a president who is selling the same snake oil he and his minions have been peddling for years as he betrays the trust of our troops (ask Joe Galloway of McClatchy Newspapers about that). As I went on to say last week:
Then, once that presumption of superior daddy-hood has been stripped away from the Bushites, you can start talking about how perhaps telling the truth about the threats that face us, and doing what works to defeat them, might be a better approach than the bluster-loudly-and-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot approach the GOP seems to love so much.
Speaking of which, the Edwards campaign is touting a speech tomorrow by John E. as “a major policy address on counterterrorism in which he will outline his plan to make America safer.” Could be a start; I’ll be interested to see what he says.
Meanwhile, Hillary and Barack… would you mind waking up and joining the fight, if it’s not too much trouble?
Related posts:
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zunoed?
Swopa!
dang
Zed
dakine01 @ 1
Shaka!!!
“Collapsed”
What is truly sickening is that all the Repugs, except Ron Paul, swore that the surge is working during last nite’s debate…!!!
Funny I sent Hill an email last week with a similar idea/request. Don’t talk of leadership- do leadership!
I would like the media to wake up and start covering Edwards! *arrrrrgggggghhhhhh*
It seems to me that Edwards has taken the leadership position on most issues even if he isn’t considered the frontrunner. Obama and Clinton seem to be saying a whole lot of nothing.
As a matter of fact, Dodd and Kucinich are taking stronger positions than Clinton and Obama.
Something needs to change.
Wolfie is talking to Murtha right now…!!!
CTuttle @ 7
They’re stuck with it and have no place else to go. If they defy the party, they are sunk and if they don’t they are weasels. I suppose you were not expecting them to have any care for their country or anything except getting elected. Cowards – every one of them.
CTuttle @ 7
The republics will go down with the bushite ship with all guns blazing and the band playing “Nearer My Dog to Thee”
TJ @ 10
Dennis is over here on the Big Isle, right now, he’s giving a lecture tonite…!!!
Swopa, in general, I agree, but the triangulators will continue to nibble around the edges without actually committing to anything that’s going to place the blame squarely on Bush’s shoulders.
My own feeling is that all the Dems should be pushing back against Bush, and hard, every time he pushes back. Take it straight to him and his bunch of numbskull advisors.
Presents a united front. And, those in Congress now (which covers just about everyone except Gravel, Richardson and Edwards) ought to be encouraging defunding bills unless Bush signs a timetable bill. Push that knucklehead right into his own little corner. Push back hard–all of `em. Because he’s going to push back hard–that he’s done very consistently over the last six years.
Hi Swopa!
I hope your right about this, I’ll take anything at this point.
‘Speaking of which, the Edwards campaign is touting a speech tomorrow by John E. as “a major policy address on counterterrorism in which he will outline his plan to make America safer.” Could be a start; I’ll be interested to see what he says.”
my bold
Iraq front and center? it’s about time. On the issue of Iraq, most so called leaders in my party have been total jerks. Led by one or two idiot Democrats in particular, seemingly in possession of a glaring and spectacular innate lack of acumen and imagination.
Great post Swopa, I don’t think old Grandpa Gravel really wants to be President as much as he wants to fight like a firedog for the truth to be a part of the Democratic party platform (and the American platform) He speaks the truth, imo, and we should listen to him. Considering he has more experience than anyone else in the D line up.
One thing he keeps repeating that finally sunk into my thick head this week on CNN, “Either of the two leading D candidates could end this war now if they really wanted to.” I believe him and even if it is not 100 percent true it is clear they are not trying nearly hard enough.
Another Delurk By Al K:
Remember those “loose nukes” a few days ago? They were dialayield types according to reports, and could be set all the way up to 150 Kiloton yields (10 times a powerful as the weapon exploded over Hiroshima). Such yields are called “theater nuclear weapons”.
To get an idea why someone might just want to set them up for a B52 attack on, say, Iran, without warning, please read the following paper carefully. (warning, PDF link)
Are Theater Nuclear Weapons Really Useful On The Battlefield?
I only hope they were the only “loose” shipment…
TJ @ 10
Those facts aren’t unrelated. As the perceived front-runners, Clinton and Obama are “playing it safe.” Edwards, meanwhile, has nothing to lose by telling the truth.
As soon as Edwards or one of the other candidates starts making headway based on his Iraq stand, it’ll light a fire under Hillary and Barack.
Here’s one from Chris Dodd:
And THE Dem frontrunner speaks of pulling out of Iraq “responsibly” and “preparing for the next war”.
Swopa
this link is broken for me
‘betrays the trust”
[Mod: fixed, and thank you]
Personally, I hope Hillary and Barack don’t wake up and join the fight. I want Edwards to be the only sane voice out there wrt Iraq.
Have you all seen Sidney Blumenthal’s piece in Salon today? Bush knew there were no WMDs prior to invasion of Iraq.
God save us from the GOP, Obama, Hillary and the DLC.
althespook @ 19
What pisses me off is the blame the underlings scenario is playing out; the munitions handlers have been decertified and the squadron commander was sacked, but who ordered it…??? Same old, Same old…!!! 8-(
Oklahoma kiddo @ 25
I still can’t get that godawful condescending Carville video from the dscc.org out of my mind.
althespook @ 19
Ah, someone else who’s wondering. I had the thought that the ones we noticed were intended to be ‘found’ over there with ‘Iran’ (and maybe ‘CCCP’ or ‘China’) stencilled on the business end, so the WH and the DoD could say ‘Look! Iran has WMDs! Attack!’ and the MSM would buy into it and there we’d be (I’d say up Sh*t Creek but it’d be more like in the middle of Sh*t Ocean).
AP – U.S. forces in Iraq should be reduced significantly, according to a new study on Iraq’s security forces that inflamed debate in Congress on how quickly that can happen without hurling the country into chaos.
althespook @ 19
It’s never the first time they crisscrossed the country. It’s only the first time they were caught.
Unfortunately, money wins elections and that is where Hillary and Barack are spending their leadership. I think both are capable leaders but both have to much at stake trying to win the primary for either to take a strong leadership position in getting our troops home now.
Like other issues Edwards has moved them to come out with a position. Otherwise, they tend to work the purses.
From Tom Harkin
Anybody know who the single senator who blocked the bill was?
I said this downstairs a few chapters back;
the reason edwards isn’t energizing the party has something to do with his appearance
every time I see him it looks like his face is sweating.
yes, in a presidential election appearance is important and edwards has to address this issue he has if he wants to win all the marbles
That Joe Galloway Commentary is a great read,
Can’t We Do Better Than This?
Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla.?
mui @ 35
He’s awful.
Swopa,
What should Edwards or another front runner say about Iran?
One real real problem with most of the candidates is the talent pool that they use for advice. They listen to Serious People like the Brookings Institute’s Michael O’Hanlon who really believe in war as a national policy. All of them do. Our foreign policy sector is absolutely one-sided, and it is completely at odds with what the American people want. That’s why you see HRC & Obama piling on Iraq & Iran. They truly believe that America has the right, and the duty to destroy the existing government of Iran because they are enriching uranium, even though the Iranian’s are within their rights as signatories of the non-proliferation treaty. The UN says that Iran is not making weapons grade uranium, but that makes no difference to the Serious People in DC. Because this is the United States, and we are special, we export democracy. And the candidates echo that.
I love the smell of triangulation in the morning.
It smells like defeat.
P J Evans @ 28
Not sure how that would work, unless they planned to explode them. American, Chinese and Russian nuke tech (not to mention whatever the Iranians could conceivably clobber together) are, as I understand it, significantly different, and the charade would last only as long as they could keep cameras away from the “evidence”.. and if they do manage to get caught staging something like that, we’d have a whole new clientele at Gitmo. I think Mad Dogs psyops theory or something similar to it is probably closer to the truth.
Suffice it to say, if any of this is even remotely close to the mark, we’re now pretty much being ruled by Dr Strangelove.
OT- CNN Breaking News: We could be hearing from Osama in a couple of days.
Elliott @ 34
What’s frightening about this mentality that all Iraqis are potential terrorists (kinda like saying all Vietnamese are Viet cong) , is politicians will be less inclined to champion emigration (or extraction more likely) for Sunnis who are about to be wiped about by Shias and v.v., and then there’s the kurds. I personally think we should already have had some contingency plan by now, given this war is shittier than Henry Kissinger.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 36
No, he’s offal.
Eureka Springs @ 41
Gee, this is straight off the script!
“Whilst the U.S., run, lynch mob, kangaroo courts in ’sovereign’ Baghdad ‘tries’ those of Iraq’s legitimate government, in a spectacle which shames the world, law and any claim civilisation itself, there are real war criminals out there, from those who ordered the illegal thirteen year bombings and the invasion, to those who carried them out and invaded. Again, Nuremberg’s ’supreme international crime’.
Further, did the British know anything of this jewel of a city they were defiling, kicking down doors, beating up kids, indulging in the ocasional bit of torture here and there, with their tanks tearing up it’s streets, ‘criss-crossed with waterways and canals’, in the former ‘Venice of the Middle East’? Founded in A.D. 637, by Omar bin Khattab, it quickly grew to a city of 300,000 and became a focul point of Arab sea trade which went as far as China. It became an intellectual centre where philosophers, scientists, literary luminaries created and flourished. Ibn Al Jowzi and Ibn Al Haitham gifted discoveries in optics and mechanics that are thought to have taught Europe lessons.
Did they marvel as the sun fell and rose behind Basra’s millions of palms and the birds soared and swung in their great sun eclipsing waves, dancing and singing in the dusk and dawn? Did they walk with compassion through ancient, ochre stoned, damaged streets, that have witnessed so much destruction and wonder at the remaining, superb and unique architecture of homes with vines, internal mosaic courtyards, intricate balconies, ancient elegant arched windows? Or did they just kick in the doors again, some doors fashioned when Oliver Cromwell thought to democratise Britain?” (My bold).
http://uruknet.info/?p=m35997&s1=h1
Eureka Springs @ 41
…or Larry Craig, who now says he planned to quit anyway…
CMike @ 37
Asked and answered. ;-)
Cranking it up.
UK jets scrambled to intercept Russian aircraft
British fighter jets were today scrambled to intercept eight Russian “Bear” reconnaissance aircraft in the second such incident in recent weeks.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/mili…..47,00.html
I’m tired of waiting for the Democrats to do something about Bush. It’s depressing and frustrating.
At this point, I’ve more or less checked out of the political process. No more calls, no more letters, I try to stay off blogs, and definitely no more contributions.
Bleh. That’s all I feel about Democrats now is Bleh. And if that’s a common feeling this time next year, all those consultants who think doing nothing is the best way to win 2008 are going to be in for a shock.
Elliott @ 44
Damn, he really is on the GOP payroll after all.
Elliott @ 34
I’ve always admired Galloway:
“The White House, as soon as it’s watched Congress choke down the so-called Petraeus report and recommendations, will promptly demand that the same Congress vote another surge in the war budget — adding another $50 billion to what’s already been approved.
The Democrats will whine and moan and bloviate and then, like lapdogs, they’ll roll over and approve the money, proving that they’re even bigger cowards than Bush or Cheney are.”
Why is a specific candidate “Eventual”?
Last night at my DFA meeting I heard some interesting comments about Hillary from attendees…
1. would not vote for her if she was a man
2. she is George Bush in a skirt
3. Repug corporations want Hillary because it will be status quo
4. Need to read the mother jones article called Hillary’s Prayer …. eye opening
Just reporting what I hear….
Swopa @ 50
maybe he’s planning on declaring victory, saying that terror’s no longer necessary now that the GOP has been so successful in destroying the Great Satan
Oklahoma kiddo @ 36
Gynecologist who thinks woman’s problems can be handled with prayer?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 48
Sounds like a “don’t let your allies F with Iran”.
Maybe someone was thinking of dropping a nuke somewhere in the U.S. and blaming terrorists.
Ron Paul has Big Mo all to himself in the Republican Primaries … most of it due to his commitment to stop the war.
There is a great lesson for Democrats in Ron Paul’s “Stop The War” message.
Swopa @ 47
Here’s the quote I like from Swopa’s Jan 31 2006 post:
Swopa bold. Say if you can see this stuff a year and a half in advance, what should we be worrying about for the election?
mui @ 54
“spew..cough, cough,…..” What?
Recognizing “it all begins in Iowa,” Fred Thompson officially began his campaign for president in Des Moines. Thompson told the audience the “preseason is over” and promised to make America a “stronger, more prosperous nation.” Like the rest of the candidates, he promised change, saying he is not a career politician. In fact, he promised to be the president “who will blow the whistle on this lack of responsibility” in the current government. “We still get our basic rights from God and not from government,” he said.
Thompson began, talking of terrorism. “We are living in an era now of the suitcase bomb,” he said. “We are living in an era now of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, where a small amount of the wrong kind of material getting in the wrong hands can do destruction that we never though possible. They are more likely than ever to fall in the hands of our worst enemy. Radical Islam has declared war on us.”
As yet… no mention of radical Republicanism, by Freddy.
Gotta eat. Not offal I hope.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 29
If Iraq isn’t in chaos, I shudder to think of what it would be if it were.
SeamusD @ 38
My key question to candidates is what Think Tank will they get advice from and who will be their advisers. This question stumps them, every time. I have to ask it repeatedly or it is ignored. Sometimes I get, “That’s difficult” or they name a couple of the more well-known Tanks. Basically, they are not ready for political office. They have no idea who their advisers will be nor why they would select a particular Think Tank. They just want to win an election. How will that make any changes? It won’t.
mui @ 60
and I hope not awful either
Blub @ 40
Would the news crews notice? I doubt they’d know there was a difference, and they tend to believe what ‘official spokepeople’ tell them, even when it meakes no real sense. Remember earlier this year the ‘IEDs’ they were being shown as ‘proof’ that Iran was helping the insurgents.
Look. If OBL were really “it”, they would have gone in come hell or high water and knocked him out years ago…Pakistan or no Pakistan. This is such BS. I have no doubt that another “event” may take place, which would solidify the power of our cabal, but seriously..they ARE making this sh*t up as they go.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 59
Just fear, fear, and more fear. That’s the Repug platform.
Be. Very. Afraid.
SeamusD @ 66
Right now, I am… of the RNC.
Blub @ 67
I am more afraid of the dnc
I’m feeling curiously like Dorothy. We are living the Wizard of OZ. W knew there were no WMD’s, so arrest him already. I’m so sick of this pussyfooting around by freaking politicians.
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 56
Oh, they’d never do anything like that to their own citizens, would they?
Operation Northwoods
BTW fwiw
Robert Draper is scheduled to be on Charlie Rose tonight. He wrote Dead Certain: The Presidency of George W. Bush
mui @ 60
I just did. My blood sugar dropped. Go enjoy. Eating is a kind blessing.
At this point if Gore doesn’t come in we in this home like Edwards. There are some great Demos out there. Kucinich, Clark, Dodd, and a few more.
I said this earlier…..but doesn’t it seem like Blumenthal’s report about bush knowing there were no WMD’s should be…..oh, I don’t know……like ALL OVER the friggin new media right about now??
I think the narrative is really simple.
Everything this administration has ever said about this war has been a lie so we can’t make any decisions based on their claims. Everytime thing we have done in Iraq has resulted in either a temporary improvement that quickly faded or just plain made things worse. Our presence is the dominant cause of the problems in Iraq so our presence can’t solve the problems. It is time to get out. Period.
Any talk of compromise with reThugs is fine if it gives them cover to back getting out but if it is just cover for Dems not forcing an end it is inexcusable.
Out Now.
P J Evans @ 64
All they’d have to do to get it noticed would be to hang an anti-war sign on it….
I mean really. OBL was a corporate construction magnate. Does anyone think he went around saying, by the lion of the blah, blah, blah, we need to spent X amount of money, inshallah, to develop inshallah, the lion of whatever, that building we have a contract to build. Oh, and from a cave, no less.
Eureka Springs @ 41
Drive by …
Rhetorical statement: You ever notice how he always pops up when Shrub really needs a pr boost?
john in sacramento @ 78
Of course…one and the same.
The ramp-up?
Israel ‘violates Syrian airspace’
Syrian air defences have opened fire on Israeli aircraft after they violated the country’s airspace in a “flagrant and agressive act,” a Syrian military spokesman has said.
The Israeli jets “dropped ammunition” over deserted areas of northern Syria early on Thursday, a spokesman told the official Syrian Arab News Agency (Sana).
Israeli radio, quoting unidentified military sources, said Israel did not carry out an air attack on Syria.
I saw Hillary speak in person last Sunday night. She kept saying she would end the Iraq war “responsibly”. She never said she would end the war period. What the hell does ‘responsibly’ mean? Perhaps it is code for saying she is not going to lead any fight to put time lines on troop withdrawals? Or, does it mean she is not a dirty f%$#king hippie. I just don’t know.
I’ve got a gut feeling about this.
LS @ 79
15 minutes before prime times news on the east coast.
Again, in December and January, Little Bush’s Little Iraqian Surge was promoted as having its birth pangs from Baker’s IraqNam Study Group. Except the epidural was applied above W’s neck.
The Surge had one major goal, many minor ones. That major goal was to increase physical security with a military increase, so the POLITICAL LEADERSHIP in IraqNam could get on its paws and stand up on its own. Every bench mark, and even the WhiteHouse dictated Betrayus report were based on that one goal. All the security benchmarks, had they been met, would have indicated political growth and stability. All the health/social/ reconstruction benchmarks? ditto.
Except, every single honest observer and reporter, and even the senatwhores and congresscritters who sat through a heavily scripted, beautifully directed and surprisingly expensive Betrayus Dog and Pony Show, agree that the one major goal was not only NOT met, but that the political leadership in Iraqnam resembles the idiots who debated on Faux News last night, in terms of effectiveness, reality and solutions. To put it simply, the quag in the Iraqnam quagmire got wetter, deeper, muddier, and far, far messier than just 7 months ago.
That is why the WH talking heads are talking about “Metrics” and demanding that the Democrats wait for Betrayus recitation of the White House script. It conveniently changes the subject, and hides the open fact that the Surge, based on its original goals, was and remains an utter failure.
So what has the WH dictated, transcribed, taste-tested, measured, weighed, and rewritten? It can be summed up in one word. SUCCESS.
Just like every other policy change created by the Bushistas, they take a horrible situation, claim that the new and improved policy from George means that “we have turned the corner” and that we are succeeding, or success is at hand.
In some ways, we can’t blame poor, imcompetant Betrayus. He fucked up earlier by screwing up the arming of the IraqNam army. Lost more than 100,000 weapons that are now being used against other Iraqis and his own troops. He fucked up even more, by agreeing to be a willing participant in a fraud, then a bigger fraud, and now a fraudulent surge. He saw all too well what happened to top experienced, no bull soldiers and generals who spoke truth to power, and saw how they were pushed out of service, discredited, demoralized and castigated. He is too smooth a politician to suffer that fate. After weighing the wellfare of his men, and the wellfare of his career right now, guess which won out?
Hint: it ain’t his men.
So he will dutifully read his well-polished script, internally arguing that these are the orders of the Dear Leader, the Supreme Commander, the Decider Guy, and as a good soldier, he must comply. And he will talk about success in military terms. Of course there is success in military terms. If you land 30,000 troops, plus 20,000 supply and support staff in a region, with heavy armor, air support and the best technology seen in battle, you KNOW there will be military advances. Napoleon saw that in Egypt, in every battle he fought. Yet, he lost the war. Just as we have lost this one.
LS @ 77
I don’t want to get into another argument over OBL, but I really do believe he’s a truly evil person.. not going to retell what I’ve said here before about what I witnessed in the Moluccas (a region in which the US had absolutely no strategic interest) in the late 1990s (his minions’ ethnic cleansing policies in action, complete with banners with his face on it, plastered up on the walls of Melanesian villages newly cleansed by machete of Christians). Suffice it to say, whatever our role in helping to make him what he is in the 1980s, he’s real and he’s a threat.
We haven’t pushed hard to get him, despite the fact that he’s a threat, because we’re being ruled by evil people who don’t get a shite about real threats… only about their own political expediency.
Unfortunately, there’s room in the planet for more than one group of truly evil people.
This is clearly straight out of the WH.
Disheartening to know the Colbert Report has more moxie than all the top
Democrats put together.
What a pack of Quislings.
no. Not Kuchinich.
john in sacramento @ 78
call your doctor if prop-up-ism last more than four hours.
Bin Laden will also be taking a text messaging poll after his speech.
Don’t miss out.
-GSD
think progress has an excellant lead up right now;
Blub @ 85
I have no quarrel with what you are saying – that he exists or existed and is or was evil, but the propaganda machine has a pattern that benefits others. I suggest that the “propaganda” originates from “another” group of truly evil people, using his evilness to their advantage in order to control people by using fear tactics and possibly actual “events” to drive it home.
Things may be heating up. Recall the British reaction today to the Russsian recon planes. Are there dots that need to be connected?
Iran accuses Israel of spreading insecurity in Mideast
By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent, and Agencies
Iran blasted Israel on Thursday over Syrian claims that its military fired on an Israel Air Force warplane in its airspace, accusing Jerusalem of “speading insecurity” in the Middle East.
Russia, meanwhile, called on Israel to respect international law and expressed “extreme concern” over the reported incident.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/901684.html
GSD @ 89
He’ll be speaking from the EFP factory in downtown Teheran.
oddmommy @ 74
Yes. IMO, the best evidence yet that we’re through the looking glass.
and why isn’t this getting any play, this should be all over the blogs since corporate media won’t cover it, I posted this in the morning and not much a peep from anwhere. this is HUGE;
I am amazed at how few people are interested in what our policies are doing around the world. No, not interested isn’t correct. They are indifferent.
Indifference is a very low state of being. It permeates every part of a person. It’s like dishonesty. You can’t be dishonest in one part of your life and not in another. It covers you. Or, abusive. When a person is abusive towards one child, they have the active potential to be abusive towards any child. It permeates their entire being.
No matter how many times I have to call and be a butt pain to my senators and representative, I’m good with that. If I ever show indifference on this site, I expect one of you to remind me or give me a verbal shake to awaken me.
OK. So some times I’m naive but that’s not the same thing. Even screwed up facts are OK. That can be corrected. Indifference. That just doesn’t sit well with me.
We are poised to attack Iran. Russia and China will not roll-over if we bomb Iran.
For all those pro-lifers in the audience (according to Candidate Huckabee last night he supports life for all kinds of grown-ups):
One may wish to consider asking first (perhaps even of a candidate): What critical actual current threat to the U.S. justifies the loss of one more U.S. life in Iraq?
Then one might ask: What critical actual threat to the U.S. ever justified the loss of any U.S. life in Iraq?
Next try, under what theory of international law was the U.S. allowed to kill about 1 million civilians in Iraq (according to an estimate from John Hopkins University School of Public Health)?
These are real U.S. and Iraqi lives being lost every day. With one or two exceptions (mainly not mentioned in the post), it is difficult to find a candidate who has recognized that fact.
Wish I could bring back to life Joseph Goebbels.
Just to get his take on Shrub Co.
Then I’d send him back.
It takes an evil fuck to understand the doings of evil fucks.
Those here at FDL lack the necessary qualities.
allan_in_upstate @ 93
it’s gonna be something like;
bin laden—man I sure hope a democrat wins the election, that would make it easier to commit terrorist acts of destruction
and I sure hope they withdraw from Iraq, this way I will be able to move more of my al qaeda force there
and I sure hope tehy do nothing about Iran, becuase I will have al qaeda in Iran unless they send a nuclear bomb”
so that’s what the tape is gonna say
Oklahoma kiddo @ 92
Yeah. It appears that the world is on high ramp -up of tensions.
Toss in the reports of US bombers loaded with nukes and I say you got yerself a lot of escalating going on.
Whatever your feelings are about OBL, that he is appearing….supposedly, does not bode well.
-GSD
Jonathan @ 99
Dang. I think he got reincarnated and just moved back to Texas.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 97
Russia may get genuinely mad. China will hem and haw and scream, but, at the end of the day, will roll over. Heck, they’d probably try to cut a deal with the shrubbies to get a new pipeline put in.
Swopa– good’un!
My suggestion: At every opportunity, tag Bush with the nickname “Wrong Way”. Everywhere he takes us, its the wrong way. Its a nice phrase also in that it will do either for way as direction, or for way as method. And if that nickname gains some traction, then everything they argue for becomes problematic, and undermines Bush’s leadership. Why more money for Iraq? He’s just taking us the wrong way there, too!
Bob in HI
I hope KO gets all over this. Call their bluff.
Chertoff’s fart is a little overdue.
john in sacramento @ 78
maybe he’s the “dark horse” repub candidate. Ya know, if you can’t beat ‘em…..
bobschacht @ 105
Wrong Way Georgie.
bobschacht @ 104
Ah, “Wrong Way” sounds like “Wrong Way” Corrigan. Kind of a klutzy, but endearing character.
I just wish they’d call him by his right name: Asshole.
FYI, New post upstairs
IMO, the idea (however blunted) that shrub is a lame duck is flawed.
He and his handlers have cards up their sleeves.
Some of the cards have been laid on the table.
Other cards are being held back…until the time is right.
Lady Bug @ 81
I have trouble with Hillary for the same reason. Every statement has a qualifier she can do an “oh but” on. I need someone to use simple, clear, definitive speech with me. My imagination goes wild with qualifiers and caveats not to mention statements like, “That is complicated.” If you understand it you can explain it simply and clearly. If you don’t, you turn it into a sticky gooey mess.
OBL’s probably hosting a summit in Tehran with Dobson, Bauer, the ghosts of Rabbi Kahane and Jerry Falwell… brothers in radical arms for planetary conquest and subjugation of unbelievers, or something like that
Jonathan @ 112
Bingo!
New Thread.
Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.
Jonathan @ 112
agreed! It drives me crazy when people say he’s “irrelevant.” We WISH.
Swopa @ 47
So you’re not in favor of something along the lines of “we should not start a war with Iran.” Instead, you think the major Dems should leave the attack option in play with:
If President Bush bombs Iran in the coming months, what Democrat will be on record as having opposed him?
RonD @ 116
great movie…..though not for everyone.
My personal favorite line is when Marcellus tells Jules he’s “on the motherfucker.” I like to quote it when someone asks me if I’ve done something.
Blub @ 104
If you were prez would you be willing to take that gamble?
HuffPost has an item up on the latest Quinnipiac poll on Ohio. It’s a “red no more” sort of thing, with the lede being how Hillary’s doing.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x128…..;strTime=0http://http://www.quinnipiac.e…..;strTime=0
But if you click through to the Quinnipiac item itself, you see a different picture than the headline would suggest.
Here’s the “comment” I posted pointing out their error:
This is particularly infuriating because it comes right below an item saying Hillary is leading Edwards in North Carolina
Blub @ 104
Other than rattling its weapons at Taiwan, what countries have the Chinese invaded? They really have had a belly full after WWII, not too unlike Europe. They don’t mind a family feud among themselves in the name of revolution. They know they are insulated and if push comes to shove they can pull the plug on the US. They may be using us now but they know they can do without us and do well. Never underestimate the Chinese.
Ahh, the Russians. They hated Stalin but they loved being a world power. They have long memories and will smile and pinch Bushie’s cheeks while they are plotting against him and throwing their weight towards the Iranians. There is nothing like looking into Putin’s eyes. KGB to the core.
yellowdogD @ 24
No, “Wrong way” Bush knew that there were indeed WMD in Iraq, and he just refused to be confused by facts.
Bob in HI
Mauimom @ 121
The fix is in but there can always be a slip-in at the last minute. If so, it will be like the call in the 2000 election that Gore won Florida. Jed and the BushCo had to re-fix the fix.
Mauimom @ 121
not to start an argument or anything and being too lazy to click through, at first glance I would say that most of those numbers would likely fall within the polling margin of error meaning other than the pos/neg numbers, the Edwards/Clinton numbers would be counted pretty much a statistical wash.
Uh-oh, breaking news on CNN (think September). Bin Laden to release another tape! Jeebus. Great post swopa. It is astounding to me, and atrios, and a lot of others, that we are still writing about this war. Will someone think of, at least, the children and women? The Iraqi women and children are being forced out on the streets to sell thierselves to survive. Pathetic. Our girls over there are being raped, the water and electricity, rebuilding catastrophe, profiteering, loss of life on both sides, it’s too much to wrap around the brain. For these politicians to put ego before their constituants and human regard while we pay their freeking salaries and perks just pisses me off. Another thing that really grabs my ass is that we are training them to kill our people and providing ammunition also. These politicians are close to extinct. We need fresh blood (with term limits, 71 one and up? with no ideas)to get us back on track. Do these people have reflections when they look in a mirror? I think not.
TJ @ 10
We need to change it by getting behind Edwards and putting the boot to Obamillary!
My caption for this pic reads: ‘Two sockpuppets and a real progressive.’
jello5929 @ 49
And Rove delivers the knockout blow from offstage!
Fool….
dakine01 @ 125
Chris Bowers don’t agree with ya. And a fellow who won’t ‘clik thru..’ to get the facts belongs at LGF.
Not here.
Swopa, c’mon. Haven’t you been reading? It’s, like, all over the tubes! The Dems are pre-emptively caving in on Iraq again! They are planning to put out a bill that “requires” Bush to produce a plan for withdrawal but carries absolutely no requirements to do so whatsoever. They fully intend to fund Bush’s war AND fund his illegal funneling of some of that extra $50 billion into an attack on Iran. Count on it.
Congress is caving. Again. No, wait, let me correct that. The Democrats are caving. Again.
Praedor Atrebates @ 130
of course they are, they are very pwned.
I found this at http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/iraq:
John Edwards’ Plan To End The War In IraqPODCAST: John Edwards at Riverside Church
John Edwards speaks during the Martin Luther King Day Commemoration at Riverside Church in New York.
“We don’t need debate; we don’t need non-binding resolutions; we need to end this war. In order to get the Iraqi people to take responsibility for their country, we must show them that we are serious about leaving, and the best way to do that is to actually start leaving.” — John Edwards
There is no military solution to the chaos in Iraq. Instead, the Iraqi people must solve the problem politically by taking responsibility for their country. By leaving Iraq, America will induce the Iraqi people, regional powers, and the entire international community to find the political solution that will end the sectarian violence and create a stable Iraq. We must show the Iraqis that we are serious about leaving by actually starting to leave, with an immediate withdrawal of 40,000-50,000 troops.
We can only achieve these steps through legislative action. Edwards strongly supports the supplemental spending bill passed by both Houses of Congress and vetoed by President Bush that funds the troops with a timetable for withdrawal. He has called for Congress to respond to the President’s veto by sending back the same bill—and doing this as many times as it takes for the President to end the war. Edwards supports the following specific steps:
Stop the Escalation and Immediately Start the Drawdown
Edwards opposed President Bush’s “surge” and supports immediately drawing down 40,000 to 50,000 combat troops.
Require Troops to be Ready
We should prohibit funding for any new troops that do not meet real readiness standards and that have not been properly trained and equipped. American tax dollars should be used to train and equip our troops, not to escalate the war.
Clarify the Lack of Legal Foundation for the War
The 2002 authorization did not give President Bush the power to use U.S. troops to police a civil war. Edwards believes that Congress should make it clear that President Bush exceeded his authority long ago. The president now needs to end the war and ask Congress for new authority to manage the withdrawal of the U.S. military presence and to help Iraq achieve stability.
Withdraw Combat Troops within about a Year
Edwards believes we should completely withdraw all combat troops in Iraq within about a year and prohibit permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. After withdrawal, we should retain sufficient forces in the region to contain the conflict and ensure that instability in Iraq does not spill over into other countries, creating a regional war, a terrorist haven, or a genocide.
lauren @ 132
Hillary, Barrack would you care to comment?
Swopa – What is wrong with you? The people in this country have turned against this war and this president and want the troops to come home. No persuasion needed. The majority party leadership is standing in the way of defunding this military adventure and occupation in Iraq and is enabling their Republican friends and Republican president. The leaders need to lead. The candidates need to shout and demand until the deed is done. Democratic leadership stinks! on this and let’s don’t forget how they screwed up the FISA “reform” and allowed it to come to a vote which they didn’t have to do.
No timeline. No funding. No excuses.
QuakerGirl @ 122
the answer is: tibet
this whole “the (D)’s screwed up again, oops! but at least they mean well (we think)” thing is such a ploy to keep the sheeple in the pen.
Mary @ 134 puts it with the right tone of exasperation when someone fails to grasp the obvious.
The American people would support impeachment and an end to middle east criminal idiocy. The (D) party leadership, and most of the washington (D) rank and file, stands in the way, thereby protecting the horrible Cheney/Bush cabal from what the Constitution put in place for just such an occasion.
CMike @ 37
What would YOU like them to say?
Would YOU care if we went to war with Iran, even if it’s only an air war with no ground troops?
What question would YOU be asking the Bush administration about a possible war with Iran?
Eureka Springs @ 41
Curious timing. Hasn’t he (or Zawahiri) usually waited until just before an election to send out his video?
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 56
If it was a Bushie thing they’d have to be consistent and destroy a largely Dem city like Chicago or St. Louis or something like that. Remember, the cities “hit” so far under Bush have been New York City, Washington, D.C. and New Orleans. All have been primarily Dem cities. Coincidence? Who knows.
GSD @ 102
This makes me think of events which led to the beginning of WWI in Sarajevo. Seemingly unrelated events occurring in distant parts of the world and then one triggering event starts a war.
What would be such a key event today? Where is the key place which ties it all together? Our leaders must draw down, pull back and not let craziness ensue.
Why on earth would Russian airplanes be in British airspace? Are they really reduced to sending Kremlinesque messages because Dubya is so deaf?
I feel certain the Brits will stay out of American political affairs and the Russians will behave logically, according to their interests. None wants or needs war just now.
Remember, in Sarajevo it was a small local event with no seeming connection to anything which began all the troubles. So, don’t expect to be able to imagine what might happen today. There are too many possibilities. It’s the aftermath, the reaction which has to be controlled, restrained, patient.
It’s like our reaction to 9/11; if we had taken more time to analyze and study it. We still haven’t to this date, not really.
If something awful were to happen, say in Teheran or in America or even somewhere less likely in the world, would people keep a cool head and wait? Can we solve our world problems, in this new global political atmosphere, in a more sane way than we did in 1914?
peanutbutter @ 9
Ditto. This has been my main complaint. It seems the media is at it again – favoring to cover the first woman and the first black. They’re trying to tell Americans who to vote for. They want to decide for us. Like they did with Gore/Bush.
Give John Edwards some press.
MarkH @ 137
Over at Swopa’s a couple of days ago I said Edwards should get out in front on the Iran issue. He should categorically state the President has no sound reason, no thought out plan, and no constitutional authority to go to war with Iran. Further Edwards should state that our country should never go to war without strong, broad based support for such action and that there is no strong, broad based public support for going to war with Iran.
Regarding Congresspeople who fear their supposedly conservative districts: I am from the undoubtedly most conservative county in the NY 20th. To be sure, we failed by a few points to get a majority for Gillibrand, who won on the strength of better performance in the more liberal parts of the District. NONETHLESS: My sense, backed by chat with many conservative friends is that the County would welcome a more progressive stance on the war. I think it’s more fear of her consultants or her connection with Hillary and friends that holds her back.