As Congress holds hearings on the new Iraq reports, members of Iraq Veterans Against the War are standing watch and demanding that Congress end the occupation. Two Democratic presidential candidates are also standing watch and asking for our help. With the continuing song-and-dance in DC over the next blank check and faux bipartisanship, it’s critical that we make our voices heard … and that we make them loud. And both candidates are offering us tools to do just that.
Stand one is pushing for action right now. There are various schemes in play in Washington to address the next round of funding for more occupation but Senator Chris Dodd has just announced his opposition to the reported Levin-Reed plan: “Rather than picking up votes, by removing the deadline to get our troops out of Iraq you have lost this Democrat’s vote… It is clear that half measures are not going to stop this President or end this war. I cannot and will not support any measure that does not have a firm and enforceable deadline to complete the redeployment of combat troops from Iraq. Only then will Congress be able to send a clear message to the President that we are changing course in Iraq, and a message to the Iraqis that they need to get their political house in order.
Dodd’s campaign has built a “Write Your Senator” tool so we can say “No” to these schemes too: Let’s all take a minute and make sure our Senators hear from us today.
Stand two is pushing for clear answers from our 2008 candidates. As Chris Bowers wrote last night in his very important post – Democrats Grossly Misinformed on Candidate Plans for Iraq:
…if Democrats end up nominating a candidate who supports a substantial residual forces plan while thinking that candidate will actually withdraw virtually all troops in a short period of time, then basically our party will have been hoodwinked in a manner not unlike the way the war was first sold to the American public back in 2002 and 2003.
I’ve just been on a call with Gov. Bill Richardson and he discussed this very problem. As many of you know, he’s taken a clear “no residual forces” position. Richardson asked the other candidates to detail how many troops they would leave in Iraq at the last debate but – as Chris Bowers has noted – this is a question no one else seems to want to answer.
On our call, the Governor spoke about Senators Clinton, Obama and Edwards saying that they want to end the war and giving the impression that the plans of all are candidates are similar. Richardson said “That’s just not true. All three would leave troops behind indefinitely and American lives hang in the balance.” He also noted that “this is the time to debate these points not after we have a nominee…. We need to have not merely a slogan, we need to have a plan to match the rhetoric.”
Gov. Richardson is insisting that we, the voters, have a right to know where each of our candidates stand on this critical question. His campaign has created a petition demanding that “the next debate sponsors get a straight answer from every candidate: How many troops would you leave behind? for how long?” Again, this is one step you can take today – sign the petition and insist that we get answers.
It becomes clearer each day that we cannot simply rely on the new majority to end the occupation nor can we passively accept the candidates’ claims that they will end the war. We need facts not empty promises and we need firm action from our representatives. We need to keep the pressure on. We too need to stand watch.
Related posts:
- Rabbi to Lieberman: “Do Not Stand Idly by the Blood of Your Neighbors”
- Amendments to Watch For Tuesday and Beyond
- Progressive Block Loses 14 Members: Join DFA and FDL and Tell Them We Stand United
- Holder Refuses to Stand by Statements Saying Violating FISA Breaks the Law
- Stand With Breast Cancer Survivors of North Carolina: Ask Kay Hagan to Support a Public Plan





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

SIUN!!
deux!
!!!!!!!
hey!
Siun!!!
wow just got home and lucked up lol… now on to read the thread ;o}
Good afternoon or evening gang.
Seems like it’s Iraq day on FDL …
Siun, what kind of an occupation is Edwards talking about?
Moving too fast for me. Wooo!
Siun. “Reed”-Levin plan. ;}
I want to know how, figuritively of course, we are going to knock sense into Reid and Pelosi. Are they really that dumb that they are gonna wait until 2009 to do something about the war?
LS @ 10
I thought it was Jack Reed, too…! Not, spineless Harry!!!
I want out of Iraq now. I want no attack on Iran. And I demand an equitable solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Which Democratic candidate is best on these issues?
Siun, signed, sealed, and sent!!! ;-)
Signed the petition.
LS – thank you! I was typing too fast … fixed now.
Betsy – that’s precisely the problem. I’ve asked for specific answers from Edwards, Clinton and Obama’s people – Chris Bowers has as well … for several months now. The silence is amazing since we get answers on lots of other things. That’s why Gov. Richardson’t petition makes so much sense to me.
Newly installed in her wingnut welfare position at the Manhattan Institute,
Judy Miller will be able to inject some badly needed,
well-informed reason into the debate on the war.
Not.
Siun @ 16
Heh, I get to shake DK’s hand tonite!!! :P
I really find Chris’ post really important reading … this is the most important question and it’s maddening that we don’t have clear answers.
done and done…enough giving bushco a blank check to continue this war in iraq – enough is enough!!
Hey! Nice going Laura.
CTuttle @ 12
Hmmm… corrected to the right Levin-Reed amendment…
I will vote for the nominee of my party for president. (I dislike doing ‘creds’ intensely.) And I do not trust HRC on matters of peace in the Middle East.
i’ll not cast a vote for hrc as i think she’ll continue bushco’s iraqi and irani wars… its that serious to me…
Juslin … I’m in the same place. But right now, I think it’s more important that we find out what each actually plans – and we push each to act now
to start the withdrawal now. None of this leaving it for 2009 … and no more “oh I’d end the war” but btw, I’ll leave 70,000 troops there.
While we are encouraging our members of Congress to “stand watch” for the safety and security of our country and to exercise their constitutional powers, let us also note that the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York has been “standing watch” for our Constitution with its decision yesterday.
Some words from the decision yesterday on unconstitutionality of the Patriot Act and its provisions allowing use of National Security Letters (NSLs) and secret gag orders on those who receive them. First, the wide-ranging effect of such NSLs:
That means FDL.
So what? The court notes the “possibility of a chilling effect on speech and association — particularly of expression that is critical of the government or its policies.” No kidding.
As a result, the court ruled that nondisclosure orders “must be narrowly tailored on a case-by-case basis” and such orders “must be subject to meaningful judicial review.”
The court ruled that under the USA Patriot Act they were not.
It also ruled that the Act denied the judiciary its historic and constitutional role in reviewing government action — a violation of separation of power.
Regarding the latter, the Act seeks to restrict courts from modifying or setting aside nondisclosure requirements to certain narrow grounds. Since such requirements may chill our freedom of speech and association, and the Congress has said that the courts may not pay much attention to that risk, the court said:
There is so much more that one could go on quoting this opinion for pages and pages. The opinion is eloquent and impassioned, while carefully parsing constitutional law.
You all owe yourselves a good read this evening. The full opinion is at http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safefree/nsldecision.pdf.
Don’t be afraid of it if you are not a lawyer. Regardless of your background, I think that you will come away inspired.
all ready signed, Siun!
I can’t believe that we are being treated to a new Osama video. The Anniversary Edition.
I just cannot believe he is still alive. I would be SHOCKED if he really releases a new video.
juslin @ 24
*groan* If I have to pinch my nostrils while I pull the lever, so be it! But, I will pull that lever…!!!
Siun -
I just sent the petition off along with a message. If it takes doing this fifty time this week. Well, so be it.
3 mins to KO.
Hounding our reps in Congress seems to fall on deaf ears. What would happen if we ALL started hounding the media in unison on a single issue on a single day. Would it resinate at all? We could make multiple calls and drown them in e-mails until we get some issues addressed.
Prof – thank you for the links on the new decision! nice to have good news!
ccmask @ 31
Yeah!!! It’s on!!!
Quiz
What is my most important job as a new member of the House of Representatives?
As the chief of staff of a member of the House of Representatives, what is my most important job?
You can friend Chris Dodd on Facebook and/or join his group supporting this bill.
It seems to me the only candidate that should be elected is one who says that the minute he/she takes office a plan to withdraw all troops should be drawn up. And as soon as it is drawn up it should be implemented. If one president can send these troops off to war another should be able to bring them home. I’m not asking for this new president to immediately end the occupation. An orderly plan to withdraw should be created first. Hell, it should already be created, but undoubtedly is not. So first the plan creation in no more than one month, then the implementation. This whole fiasco is completely nucking futs. So the only person to be elected should be one to end this fiasco ASAP.
Just what does pulling out of Iraq “responsibly” mean?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
Staying there.
Elliott @ 36
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2219892697
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
…from a position of strength…!!! Bwwaahaha!!!
I watched Senator Jack Reed questioning the General Jones panel today (a panel that seemed to deliver just enough truth to get past the BS filters of those listening, but whose mandate seemed to have been deliberately limited and defined by Congress so as to serve mostly a political agenda defined by the likes of John Warner and Carl Levin).
Bottom line: ‘What’s it going to take to get “the Iraqis” to take over the responsibility for their country?’ whines Jack Reed, cluelessly (or disingenuously). Take over the costs of the occupying superpower, so that the United States – oh, excuse me, the “coalition” – can start harvesting the profit, perhaps, Jack Reed? Get real already, Members of Congress. Do you realize how uninformed, obtuse, and utterly incompetent you appear by asking such supremely entitled rhetorical questions of a bunch of retired members of the military of our country, about a foreign, sovereign nation that can’t move a muscle without our okay??
And private contractors (with some help from the State Dept. or the Justice Dept.) are training the Iraqi police forces… Blackwater-trained Iraqi cops? Yeah, that’ll win the “hearts and minds” of the thirsty, terrified citizens of Iraq. Just imagine how Americans would welcome Blackwater-trained cops into their communities with open arms…
P.S. Thanks Prof @ 26, and the ACLU, and once again, our Judicial Branch of government, for standing watch over our Constitution, despite the best efforts of both the Executive and Legislative Branches to turn their backs on that “quaint” document.
Prof-your ACLU link is bad.
TexBetsy @ 40
and http://www.facebook.com/person.php?id=2873715532
ahhh KO has the balls to call bushco on their bullshit – if only dems would do so….. and mean it!1
CTuttle @ 41
I’m waiting for one of `em to let slip out: “Peace With Honor.”
QuakerGirl @ 30
I think I passed fifty yesterday before lunch..)
Alright, Wilkerson on KO…!!!
quakergirl@39
BINGO!!
more on Dodd:
Sen. Dodd bill would reform mortgage practices
from The Central Tabulator b
By Robert Schroeder, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said Wednesday he will introduce a bill aimed at protecting homeowners, particularly in the hard-hit subprime mortgage market.
The bill would ban prepayment penalties, prohibit “steering” of customers to higher-priced loans and take other steps.
“My bill will help keep Americans in their homes while also helping to restore public confidence in our mortgage and capital markets,” said Dodd, who is running for president.
“It will make brokers responsible to the people who pay them,” said Dodd, “and ban them from acting as free agents who play lenders and borrowers off against each other.”
Dodd’s announcement follows regulators’ guidance to banks on Tuesday to help borrowers avoid foreclosure, and steps unveiled last week by President Bush to allow some re-financings. Read more on the guidance. Learn about the Bush plan.
Dodd worked on the bill with several community groups including the National Community Reinvestment Coalition.
“We support Sen. Dodd’s efforts to improve the regulation of the housing market to ensure that working families are able to secure and sustain homeownership,” said John Taylor, the group’s president and CEO. “The need for national legislation is imperative given the millions of families that face the possible loss of their homes.” MORE
Prof @ 26
The link is NG.
What’s the name of the case?
montag @ 46
Heh, just declare Victory…!!! ;-)
ohh wilkerson just nailed dems on being easily fooled… go col wilkerson
and from Biden:
Biden Says Bush Wants to Delay Chaos
from The Central Tabulator
By MIKE GLOVER
The Associated Press
August 28, 2007
President Bush’s policies in Iraq are designed to confuse voters and ensure that a chaotic end to the war is delayed until after he leaves office.
Biden pointed to the turmoil that accompanied the end of the Vietnam War, with Americans plucked from the roof of the U.S. Embassy as enemy troops poured into Saigon. He said Bush wants to avoid such a stain on the end of his presidency.
‘They would not be the ones who would have to deal with the reality of picking people up off the roofs of the embassy,’ said Biden, a Delaware senator and presidential candidate.
Biden, who heads the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Congress will launch hearings on the Iraq war the first week it’s back in session. He rejected Bush’s assertion that an increase in the number of troops has improved the situation in Iraq.
Speaking at a news conference, Biden called for a diplomatic offensive that would reach out to major industrial nations as well as Iraq’s neighbors.
‘It’s long past the time we make Iraq the world’s problem, not our own,’ he said.
Earlier in the day, Bush defended his war strategy in a speech to veterans and warned that a withdrawal of troops would threaten the United States. But Biden said Democrats and Republicans have concluded that the president’s Iraq policy is doomed _ he compared it to the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina. MORE
JONATHAN
Please read epu and let’s see what we can do.
You are more important than you know.
This ACLU link will get you to their summary page with other links, including to the ruling itself:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/n…..70906.html
SeamusD @ 43
Try this one…
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/s…..70831.html
Betsy … the Biden statement is such hokum …
“time we make Iraq the world’s problem” …as if we had nothing to do with it.
Too Slow…!!! 8-(
There are several Democrats that would make good presidents. I resent the fact that the two front runners are being shoved down my throat.
Siun @ 33
yeah, good news. The link didn’t work for tho.
How did we get to a point where people like Paul Craig Roberts and Larry Wilkerson offer more effective criticism of the Bush Administration than Democrats?
james from downstairs
I’ve been in some dark places both in the past and in the present. I got divorced, lost the use of my left hand (with seven guitars in the house), broke two ribs in a car accident, and was disgnosed with cancer all within the space of 6 months from 10/05 until April 06.
I got over most of my Nam related shit through talking with other special ops vets and through working through it.
We can confront anything and anyone, don’t let anyone, especially yourself, tell you differently.
I’d really like to take this somewhere else where we can communicate in private.
James,
My email is jgtidd at aol dot com.
Siun @ 58
Just don’t shoot the messenger, ok friend?
CTuttle @ 57
yup, that worked.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
Heh, any of ours would be far superior to any of theirs… …’cept maybe Ron Paul!!! ;-)
I was in the military between 1968 and 1972. Fortunately I never had to go to Vietnam. But some of you probably felt the same way I did when that occupation ended. It was one of the few times in my life I was really happy. Unfortunately that happiness was tempered by the completely unorganized withdraw of troops. There was no plan to get them all out. That is why I say a solid plan should be created first. So the clusterf*ck of the Vietnam withdrawal will not be repeated. And more troops can get out safely. And possibly salvaging some of our equipment to be used here at home for Katrina recovery or when needed for a real emergency.
tw3k @ 61
twk, see pow wow’s 56!!!
I will vote for the presidential candidate who says ‘if elected, I will pull out of Iraq immediately’.
ADM @ 67
AND bring home our radioactive waste–why should the Iraqis have to eat/drink/breathe it–much less suffer through cancers and birth defects.
Jonathan @ 63
Remember, we may not be our brothers keeper but we are our brothers brother.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
Be careful with that… there’s probably a whole bunch of `pugs who’ll promise, really promise to pull out…. :)
ADM @ 67
The real clusterfuck happened after the vast majority of American troops were long gone.
Laura Doty @ 70
Umm, that’s not going to happen (if only because we’d have to vacuum up the top half-inch of topsoil over pretty much the entire country…).
With the Democrats rendered useless, maybe the Republicans can stop the Republicans.
Siun @ 16
Actually, I believe it is Reid-Levin just as it is Reid-Feingold. Harry as Majority leader attached his name to each of the bills (with the agreement of the original sponsors).
ADM … the problem we will have is that we have so enraged the Iraqi people by the way we’ve acted in their country – and we’ve been incapable of securing supply lines (we are flying water to bases!) that the withdrawal will not be easy. That’s an inevitable result of what and how we’ve done this. But staying longer doesn’t make it better.
One thing Gov Richardson spoke about was how we need to use real diplomacy aroud all these issues. That agreements like the Dayton Accords allowed for settlement of very complicated issues and we should be looking to similar levels of diplomatic engagement … rather than military force. I thought that was a very good point.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 75
I don’t think Lieberman is quite up to it.
raven @ 71
raven,
You and james are wonderful brothers.
I wish there were more here.
I wish I could tell everyone here how I feel when I walk past the Wall.
But, I guess, that is history.
I feel so bad about what is going on in Iraq, for both the U.S. troops and the Iraqi people.
montag @ 74
I know there’s stuff we can’t bring back. And there’s plenty we could –were there a will (have you seen the pix of the super junk yards over there–much of it radioactive?) We won’t do the right thing by it. But we should. And we–the public–should know about it. No more blind eye.
Dakine … I double checked and it is Reed. Though I suspect Reid will sign on as well. pffft!
In case anyone was wondering where Macaca went, he’s in Heaven. I swear.
from wiki:
Allen presently serves on the Reagan Ranch Board of Governors of Young America’s Foundation where he is a Reagan Ranch Presidential Scholar.
snip
After leaving the presidency in 1989, the Reagans moved to a home in Bel-Air, California, but kept the ranch as a retreat. Ronald Reagan last visited the ranch in 1995 due to his affliction with Alzheimer’s disease, and Mrs. Reagan last visited in 1998, before selling the property to the Young America’s Foundation, a conservative group which preserves it today as what it calls “a living monument to Reagan’s ideas, values, and lasting accomplishments.” Although the ranch is closed to the public, Young America’s Foundation offers students and supporters the opportunity to visit the property Reagan called “heaven.”
Thank heaven, with this administration, we don’t have to actually make this stuff up.
The question how many troops remain? In my opinion, a brigade (3000-5000) is enough for protecting the embassy, counter-terrorism actions, and Iraqi force training. It’s large enough to be a tough nut to crack and small enough to be low-key. any more, like say a division, is too big a force to be non-occupational.
So here’s my question … along with Richardson’s petition, how can we get the candidates to detail their actual positions? I don’t think we should let them slide on this …does anyone have some good ideas? something we could do? postcards asking How Many? or …
Ideas wanted!
Siun @ 81
It looks like most of the sites that bring it up on google use Reid-Levin. Ah well, ain’t the first and won’t be the last times I’m wrong about things.
Prof @ 26
Thanks for this, Prof!
Laura Doty @ 80
But, Laura we have our own sh*t in our own backyard…!!! 8-(
http://www.hawaiitribune-heral…..ocal02.txt
By the way. I am starting a new Gooper sheet to match my scandal sheet(2 1/2 pages long now). It’s called “Goopers-Where They are now”
Everyone on the scandal sheet will be found.
ccmask @ 88
…the Huge list grows Huger??? ;-)
Jonathan @ 79
Jonathan
Why not tell us how you feel? I would not presume to know and I believe it might be a good lesson for all who have not been there. We need you to continue on and perhaps be of some assistance to those young people who are coming back from Iraq every day.
Jonathan @ 79
Yea but don’t let this shit crush you. We have had lousy times but goddamn it it’s worth it to hang in there. You’ve got at least one child that I know of, that’s a hell of a lot.
CTuttle @ 89
Are you kidding! Everyday it grows.
Siun
Maybe we need a concise but quite clear questionnaire. Then we can compare their answers as well as be aware of who has not yet responded to the query. Firedoglake means something, we will not be ignored!
chez Kevin Drum:
I’ll be positive.
Everything is going to turn out all right.
Don’t have a concern.
Be positive.
Look on the bright side.
Things will turn out all right.
Don’t worry!
So Keith is talking about the huge fundraiser she is having for Obama. Star Power politics. What do you think of this? She sure has a big following.
Laura Doty @ 80
Probably not much of it. Maybe some medical equipment that could be retrieved.
But, what I’m saying is that the real problem is with DU dust. This stuff is practically molecular in size. You don’t just go out and pick it up, because it’s too small to even see.
There are, surely some unexploded shells around that still contain unburned DU, and those can be retrieved, but the largest problem is with the stuff that’s been successfully fired. It burns in air at shell velocities, and vaporizes and oxidizes as it punches its way through armor, creating extremely small particles. Those get into the soil, the water, into houses, etc. Gets inhaled, ingested, and that’s what’s causing the birth defects, most likely.
It’s downright crummy, but, it can’t really be cleaned up (apart from trying to precipitate it out in water treatment plants, but, hell, those aren’t working, either). The stuff in the soil is not going to get cleaned up. It’s a near-impossible task.
Jonathan @ 95
Convince yourself yet? Quick turn-around!
Just be you. AND take action.
And this is why I say a plan should be created first. There are many things we did to Iraq and the Iraqis. There is much that needs to be fixed that we have messed up in Iraq. Your thought that we should bring home our nuclear waste is a good one. But what does that mean for the occupation? I agree it is something that should be done. But just saying we should do it does not make it something that will be easily and quickly done.
I’m so afraid you will misunderstand what I am saying. The occupation must end as soon as possible. But what needs to be done before we can end the occupation? Or can we end the occupation and then somehow clean up the mess we’ve made? I don’t have the answers. I only have questions. But surely there are people in this country with the intelligence to work out a reasonably good plan to end the occupation and fix as many of the problems we’ve caused that we can.
While writing this I’ve refreshed and read other comments. It seems that many think it is hopeless. Yes, I’m aware that we’ve created problems that may never be fixed. But as someone said earlier, staying longer is not the answer. All I’m saying is in order to get out a plan must be created first. So we can cover our backs because of all the enemies we’ve created for ourselves. And we’ve already thrown so much money into this mess it would be nice to salvage as much as we possibly can.
juslin @ 53
Of course, he was close to Colin Powell so he should be something of an expert on being fooled.
Jonathan @ 95
…Be Happy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IERzx5Spic
Why not tell us how you feel? I would not presume to know and I believe it might be a good lesson for all who have not been there. We need you to continue on and perhaps be of some assistance to those young people who are coming back from Iraq every day.
I can only speak for myself. Remember, in many ways, Nam was 10 one year wars. I came home and became active in the VVAW. I have always felt that helped me come to grips with my feelings. Many vets stuffed it just like our WWII father’s did. The hardest part for me is that I had myself talked into the idea that Vietnam, and the deaths of my friends, had meaning because this country learned something. So, what now? I could be totally enraged (again) but I don’t have it in me. Life is too fucking short. I try to find things that mean something to me and focus on that.
Judge Strikes Down Parts of Patriot Act
from t r u t h o u t
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r…..607R.shtml
CBS News and The Associated Press report that “a federal judge struck down parts of the revised USA Patriot Act as unconstitutional Thursday, saying courts must be allowed to supervise cases where the government orders Internet providers to turn over records without telling customers.”
CTuttle @ 87
mmhmmm…I don’t want the stuff either. But why should they have to deal with our shit? (Again.)
ccmask @ 82
Heh. Well, I hope he stays out to pasture, playing the cornpone cowboy he always pretended to be.
“Scholar” — *snicker*
Oh Hugh! CC! More for your lists:
Former GOP Power Currin Going to Prison
from t r u t h o u t
Titan Barksdale, The News and Observer, reports: “As a federal prosecutor, Sam Currin spent six years prosecuting drug dealers, pornographers and other criminals. Now, he will spend nearly the same amount of time in prison himself.”
Joe Biden couldn’t even be bothered to be present for his Foreign Relations committee hearing on the GAO report on Tuesday (I think he was headed to the Green Zone that night). John Kerry was in the chair in his absence. But beyond that, Iraq is in anarchy and chaos now – under our thumb, outside the perimeters of American-occupied territory and our giant air bases and “Green Zone.” At least if we leave, the anarchy and chaos will be under the supervision of Iraqis, if things don’t improve. But of course, then Iraq would no longer be a conveniently “divided and ruled” client state of ours, would it?
Http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/s…..93,00.html
I guess the question I would ask candidates, is whether they believe that the United States is entitled to have any future say in the internal affairs of Iraq. That’ll get them hemming and hawing, and probably admitting that either we’ve “invested” so much that we partially own Iraq now, or claiming that the puppet, formerly-exiled Iraqis we installed in the Green Zone “want us to stay involved” (or simply that our presence is deterring the very ethnic cleansing now occurring on our watch) to justify our continued presence and control over that country’s affairs. That question might at least move the discussion off the current, stilted ’stay or go’ – of more heat than light – debate.
Hugh-
ohh wilkerson just nailed dems on being easily fooled… go col wilkerson
Of course, he was close to Colin Powell so he should be something of an expert on being fooled.
As we all were on the new Congress.
last i checked oprah IS an american citizen…..she can back whomever she wants….where’s the problem???
Siun @ 84
Sorry, Siun, I read your comment, thought of Hillary Clinton, and began to laugh.
Laura Doty @ 104
Did ya notice the promises of transparency…!!!
Everythingseemssoneat @ 108
I knew I got my expertise from somewhere. No one told me how painful it would be to get it.
juslin @ 109
If she uses her show, it can be a problem.
ccmask @ 82
If I remember correctly, macaca Allen is from S. California, so he probably is in hog heaven.
TexBetsy @ 113
How?
Obama, Fred, Rudy, Hillary and Mitt. I’m so excited.
Recently Hillary seems to be showing some flexibility on possibly changing her earlier noncommitments to ending the war. Who knows.
OT but interesting:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607E.shtml
Mother Jones article listing a number of brilliant Brownie-type thugs holding appointed positions of power and responsibility in the shrub administration. Warning: it’s horrifying.
SeamusD @ 114
Isn’t hog heaven sort of spread across Jerry Lewis’, Doolittle’s and Cunningham’s districts?
From, No Self, No Problem (Anam Thubten);
“I was reading a story recently. This mother started knocking on the door of her son and she shouted loudly, “My son it is time to wake up. Time to get out of bed. Time to go to school.” He said, “No, I don’t want to wake up.” She kept knocking on the door. Finally he said, “Well I’m awake but I don’t want to get out of bed.” She said, “Well, you have to get out of bed. You have to go to school.” He said, “No. I don’t want to go to school.” Mother said, “There are three good reasons why you have to go to school. The first reason is that it is time to go to school. The second is that there is a whole school full of kids who are relying on you, and the third reason is that you are forty years old and you are the headmaster. These are three reasons why you have to wake up and go to school.”
TexBetsy @ 103
That, Ma’am, was what Prof was telling us about earlier…! How’re ya doing? *g*
Hugh – I know. But I think this is precisely the sort of puzzle we netroots should be able to solve. Our candidates are refusing to answer us … do we just go along or do we do something?
I think people are afraid to push for an answer because they know they won’t like the answer …
but we will be in Iraq forever at this rate. And I think we will lose the election – and lose tons of voters who are tired of this kind of bs.
why would that be a problem texbet? we have an entire network devoted to one party – that being faux news channel….
It’d be nice if whoever is doing the refereeing during the next debate would *make* Obama and Clinton answer. Those are two of the greatest equivocators as far as I can tell.
raven @ 102
We all have to focus on the things that mean something and I thought of the Nam vets when we went into this godforsaken “war” – I felt that it would be hardest on all of you. Our country seems to do the same things over and over and expect a different result. I am thinking of all of you and wish you happiness and peace. I’m much older now and I know that a day is a blessing.
Doing well CT. You?
I know, but mine was shorter for the ADD among us. :)
raven @ 102
raven,
May I be honest, as I feel?
You and I and james went through a certain experience.
I don’t know what to say.
Other than shrub didn’t.
juslin, let one of the professionals around answer that one.
LS @ 119
Nice, I like Pema Chodron too, she’ll slap you out of a funk.
Hugh- My naivety is embarrassing.
SeamusD @ 114
His dad was a coach in LA, but he did his undergrad at UVA, and fell in love with the racist side of Southern culture there… so he stayed. We don’t want him back.
TexBetsy @ 125
Heh, pesky disorder…!!! ;-)
Jonathan @ 126
FIDO
Fuck It and Drive on
raven @ 128
Me too. Her teachings just about saved my best friend’s life.
Blub @ 130
Hos dad was the coach of the Washington Redskins after he left the Bears.
juslin @ 109
I don’t see a problem with her doing campaign appearances. If she campaigns for him on her show, then there’s the question of whether it’s an in-kind contribution that exceeds contribution limits, but I suspect she’s smart enough to avoid that.
Jonathan …I am not sure what’s going on and this may be out of line but I find the work of the new vets in IVAW really inspiring and think we can all draw a lot of strength from them. There are chapters all around the country … and they need help. Maybe sharing some of your experience with them would help …
LS @ 133
The Wisdom of No Escape.
juslin @ 53
Boy, wasn’t that GREAT!!!
raven @ 137
Yup, and then let that go too.
Siun @ 58
Joe Biden is blinded by his egotism and the reflection in the mirror when he practices his idea of glamorous movie star smirking & smiling with his oh so capped teeth. aaghhhhhhhhhhhhh – can’t believe he has any true base support for a serious presidential campaign.
Hi, just checking in quickly.
I listened to the above video and thought I heard “they are Iraq War Veterans and want the truth to come home…”
The last few posts here at FDL rock! I feel a lot more encouraged than yesterday, what with missing nukes and all…time to get loud again!!!
ccmask @ 88
Hope you can find out why Tom Delay is galavanting around on the talk shows like he has some credibility. With that mug shot smile, to boot.
Siun, the only thing I can think of is to withhold funds until they make their decisions about Iraq public. To write a note to the candidates saying that we’re unable to make a decision at this point, because the occupation of Iraq is the overarching issue, and all other social and governmental reform will depend on monies that are currently being wasted in Iraq. We can send these notes back in the envelope they provide.
You want to know how I feel?
I feel the same way about this as I felt about the first gulf war. Shame. I was ashamed that I took an easy way out. I managed to get into an air force band. I could play an instrument and therefore was able to serve my time without fighting and without the fear of being killed. But when all this gulf crap started I felt ashamed that I did that. I should have been stronger in my convictions and gone to Canada. I should have opposed that war more. I should never have served. I believe in serving my country, but not for a lie. Which is what Vietnam was, which is what this is.
it’ll be interesting to see how oprah fares as she campaigns for obama…. i’m waiting for the wingers to get in gear to begin attacking ms oprah…i can almost hear them starting…..
LS @ 119
Ah, to be a freshman again – NOT
newspaperbrat @ 140
“Teefs ‘n Tufts”!
Siun,
All I can say honestly to current soldiers is:
Do your job to the best of your ability.
Follow orders.
Take care of yourself.
Prepare for the future.
raven @ 132
True, raven, but credit is due for grappling with the problem and facing it head on!!! The ones who didn’t suffered the most…!!! 8-(
raven @ 134
Uh, it was the Rams not the Bears.
What about Albert Pike’s Palladian Rite?
ccmask @ 82
Gee, If I’d only packaged myself as a ‘Bubba Ray Syrup,’ I coulda been a freakin gazillionaire 20 years ago.
However, altering the course of Civilization is much more fun.
Millions of one persons, making a difference.
Gotta dig Dr. Dean…
Well we’re off to get my closet put back together in the hope that everyone can sleep in their own beds! See y’all later on.
juslin @ 109
If you are talking to me, I didn’t say it was a problem. I only asked what others thought of this. I think anyone who can pull dems to our side is great. But maybe you were speaking to someone else about this being America and all.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 129
I think it is more likely that my cynicism is too corrosive.
TexBetsy @ 152
Caio, Ma’am!!!
Redshift- The *scholar* cracked me up too.
dakine01 @ 145
lol
ADM @ 143
If you have a spare couple of days read Pat Conroy’s “My Losing Season”. It’s about his basketball team at the Citadel but also about his ambivalence about his own actions. It’s pretty common to have guilt. I am the son of a WWII vet. Served in Korea and Vietnam and I still feel guilty because I was just a truck driver. I feel guilt but it doesn’t run my life.
O/t…….except, is KO ever o/t?
I keep forgetting to bookmark the URL that tracks ratings but Keith had some great good fun w/billo tonite and according to him, Countdown is bearing down on faux mouth……BIG time!
Hugh- Rust Never Sleeps.
Heh, Abrams is snarking wide-stance…!!! 8-)
raven @ 71
Wise words, raven. That might even end up in a sermon someday.
One of the delightful aspects of the Lake is the wide variety of folks who hang out here, and the compassion that bubbles up when needed.
dakine01 @ 149
Yep.. he went from the Redskins to the LA Rams.. hence his presence besmirching our otherwise beautiful state. Dunno how he managed to sneak back in.. I’ve always said that the dang border fence should run north-south, not east-west
dakine01 @ 149
Allen joined the Los Angeles Rams staff in 1957, coaching under fellow Hall of Fame coach Sid Gillman. In 1958, owner and head coach George Halas hired him as both personnel director and assistant coach with the Chicago Bears. During his seven years of acquiring talent, the Bears were able to select three future Pro Football Hall of Famers in Mike Ditka, Dick Butkus, and Gale Sayers. Allen’s defensive schemes and tactics also had a formative effect on future Hall of Fame players Bill George and Doug Atkins during their most productive years. However, it would be his innovative defensive philosophies that would allow Allen to make his mark in the NFL.
During the latter stages of the 1962 NFL season, Allen became the Bears’ defensive coordinator following the resignation of Clark Shaughnessy. In his first full year in the position, Allen helped the team’s defense dethrone the two-time champion Green Bay Packers and lead the team to the 1963 NFL championship. Following the 14-10 victory on December 29 over the New York Giants, played under frigid conditions at Wrigley Field, Allen received a rare honor when he was presented with the game ball following the contest.
Siun, a debate is about the only place where candidates like Hillary and Obama can be asked this question directly and where they can be asked to answer it again when we get hit with their canned replies.
I can just hear Hillary saying she will start bringing troops home the first day she is in office, but for the rest saying that she needs to keep her options open, etc. and refusing to being tied down on numbers or deadlines.
Twain @ 90
Because some people here don’t see pessimism as a valid feeling in this the 6th year of an illegal presidency which is being run like Joe Stalin’s Soviet Union right down to the secrecy in numbers (have you seen what they want to take out of the census?) and the visits from NKVD (FBI) agents bearing letters, not warrants mind you, not subpoenae duces tecum, but fucking letters demanding to see what someone who has written, that is criminalizing thought and speech.
There are at least a couple of commenters here who are so fucking full of themselves that the overwhelming task in front of us in fixing this country that might seem insurmountable to some is judged to be invalid because…..they have a fucking country to take back.
New Thread
New thread.
NO Korea option!
The time is now.
A hundred and fifty post, only one attempt to answer the central question of the post, mine. And is entirely ignored. Why bother asking the candidates if you have no idea what answer you’re looking for.
Peterr @ 162
and sometimes the quiet waters are enough to comfort at a time when it’s quietly needed.
ccmask@153
my remark was just a general thought…aren’t we able to support whomever we like and why would oprah backing someone be out of the norm..stars do this all the time during an election cycle
Damn, what’s come over Abrams? Iraqi Violence might be cooked books…??? *gasp*
stratocruiser @ 170
Gee, and there were 20 more after you wrote this one.
Jeralyn is upstairs with a new thread.
ACLU Scores A Big Win Against The Patriot Act
raven @ 164
But he was the head coach of the Rams before becoming the head coach of the Redskins
dakine01 @ 176
k
james @ 166
OK, I’ll go away.
juslin @ 172
Peace love dove :))
raven @ 178
Not so fast, raven.
James might want to read the next post.
After last Novembers turnout and reset the DEMS lost the cover of not being “majority” or the holders of Chair positions and committee powers in DC.
Now they are trying to duck and cover under the “we just don’t have the votes” rubric which truly is not passing the smell test.
It again and again seems to be the DC agreed upon betwixt the two DC power partys that Iraq is going to be held under American sway and the IOL( Iraq Oil Law) for western interests pillage/plunder rights in Iraq is the hook this all gets hung on.
The DC DEMS have not ever come out against the American military bases or that monstrous over sized Baghdad super embassy citadel i
Where is Hillary on this stuff? Missing or not to be found.
Where is Barack on this stuff? Missing or not to be found.
These two people are both U.S.Senators and in most ways have no opposition record or hell raising evidence against Bush/Cheney regime to show for being in U.S.Senate these past five years.
Again. The smell tests are being flunked.
Forget G.W.Bush. He tells lies and more lies as his normal WH day to day conduct. He is a moral/ethical coward and seems incapable of rising to greatness of character.
Hillary? Barack? Why the hell are you giving G.W. so much cover still and the DC DEMS no flag to get behind and follow?
Just what the hell are you going to do if you do get into the WH in Jan.2009?
Your records show no leadership so far in this election run on American occupation of Iraq,the American military bases in Iraq or any firm declaration that Iraqs oil is not for Americans to be in control of or sponsoring any plunder/pillage rights on or for.
Integrity does matter.
Truthfulness does matter.
Principled honesty does matter.
Question now has become whether it will matter if Hillary or Barack get into WH on WashDC long American policy views in Iraq?
Al Gore.Please run.
james @ 166
I have no objection to you feeling whatever you want, or talking about it. But what I responded to was not you being pessimistic about the current state of affairs or seemingly insurmountable problems, but declaring that no matter who is elected next year, nothing is going to change.
And furthermore, I didn’t say that you shouldn’t say that, I just said I found it to be a defeatist sentiment, and wanted no part of it.
I’m sorry if it was depression or despair rather than defeatism (a little hard to tell in this medium) but I fail to see how it is being “full of myself” to refuse to dismiss what we’ve accomplished in a short time compared to how long our opponents took to get where they are.
Jonathan,
I have plenty of concerns, and I worry, but so much has gone wrong, I have sort of a limit. I worry until I’m tired of it and move on.
Endure. Persevere. Keep on keeping on. Hang in there just to spite the f’ers!
John Edwards cranking it up “No timetable, no funding. No Excuses”
Judy Miller has no conscience and is drowning in the Iraqi peoples blood and she could care less. This woman has no shame…
Why would anyone believe anything JM says or writes?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..63344.html
Libby to Judy
“You went into jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover–Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work—and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers.”
The Manhattan Institute must be patt of the root system
No funding = No war
Kathleen @ 185
She is going to be a Manhattan Institute fellow? I knew she was a man all along!!
Redshift @ 182
You aren’t even responding to the person you so cavalierly dismissed with your trite remark.
And if you think rolling over and spreading for Bush, which is basically what the Democrats have done since they came into the majority, is an accomplishment than I guess we really have reached the point of lowered expectations.
Jonathan is the person you tossed to the side of the road. He and a few of us here have done our time fighting, I mean really fighting, and we don’t need you to disregard our disappointment at realizing that what we fought for has come to this current state of affairs.
And I must thank you for allowing me to have thoughts and to actually vent them here. That’s mighty big of you.
It’s kinDa’ late and I hope somebody reads this. The Repugs are playing “Rope a Dope” with Reid and Pelosi. I suggest that we send millions of E-Mails to the Congress with just those 3 words. Send it over and over again.
All caps. “ROPE A DOPE”. I’M GOING TO START RIGHT NOW.
ccmask @ 28
Why? He doesn’t think he’s the bad guy, after all.
Actually, I’m kind of looking forward to it. Osama always tells you what he’s going to do, then he does it. I’d kind of like to know.
Aside: was on the same call as Christina and have found the same thing – you just can’t get a straight answer from these people on residual forces. And I say that of all 3 – Clinton/Obama/Edwards – even Dodd. I like Edwards and Dodd, at least a lot, but they’re blowing smoke on this one.
TexBetsy @ 50
Woo hoo! Senator Dodd is moving in the right direction.
I would hope, of course, people read all the fine print to ensure it’s everything we would want.
We might even have suggestions to improve the bill.
ADM @ 67
I agree with you completely.
Maybe what we need is someone with that Vietnam withdrawal experience to handle this one, when the end comes.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 75
The Dems aren’t “useless”, they just need a little push and direction and the feeling they’ll be rewarded by their electorates.
Don’t count on the Republicans. It’s hard to tell what they’ll do. Right now it appears they’re fragmenting and separating from Bush, but in a tight moment they might rally round and appear totally unified.
We need to get the public to recognize we’re with ‘em and use that to beat on the Republicans both now in Congress and in campaigns.
ccmask @ 96
Do you think the bin Laden tape is likely to come out *just* before Obama speaks to potential donors?
How does Obama overcome that stupid “Osama Obama” meme?
Anyway, aside from that, Obama is a bright guy who is doing quite well and recovering very quickly from his mistakes. I wonder, in these tense times, if he’s going to slip up or not. And, what’s more, once he’s established that pattern I would always wonder, if he became president, if it was going to continue. How can he overcome that ‘reputation’ as ‘not ready for prime time’?
juslin @ 144
Republicans might, but I can’t imagine any Democrats saying anything about her. We believe in free speech and free association of people. She’s great to be bringing more people into the process, to support a candidate and vote.
Lots of wealthy people have been doing this kind of thing. In her case there’s just lots more publicity about it. It’s not a whole lot different than the unions ‘throwing’ their support to a candidate.
Hugh @ 165
It would be great if someone could suggest Oprah pose that question to Obama until his audience gets a satisfactorily detailed specific answer.
Nailing those two (Obama & Hillary) down to details is about like nailing Jell* to a wall.
I believe there are three candidates demanding that we withdraw from Iraq. Dennis Kucinich has been screaming for years about the need to remove all troops. But, I guess he’s just a kook.