As Congress holds hearings on the new Iraq reports, members of Iraq Veterans Against the War are standing watch and demanding that Congress end the occupation. Two Democratic presidential candidates are also standing watch and asking for our help. With the continuing song-and-dance in DC over the next blank check and faux bipartisanship, it's critical that we make our voices heard ... and that we make them loud. And both candidates are offering us tools to do just that.
Stand one is pushing for action right now. There are various schemes in play in Washington to address the next round of funding for more occupation but Senator Chris Dodd has just announced his opposition to the reported Levin-Reed plan: "Rather than picking up votes, by removing the deadline to get our troops out of Iraq you have lost this Democrat's vote... It is clear that half measures are not going to stop this President or end this war. I cannot and will not support any measure that does not have a firm and enforceable deadline to complete the redeployment of combat troops from Iraq. Only then will Congress be able to send a clear message to the President that we are changing course in Iraq, and a message to the Iraqis that they need to get their political house in order.
Dodd's campaign has built a "Write Your Senator" tool so we can say "No" to these schemes too: Let's all take a minute and make sure our Senators hear from us today.
Stand two is pushing for clear answers from our 2008 candidates. As Chris Bowers wrote last night in his very important post - Democrats Grossly Misinformed on Candidate Plans for Iraq:
...if Democrats end up nominating a candidate who supports a substantial residual forces plan while thinking that candidate will actually withdraw virtually all troops in a short period of time, then basically our party will have been hoodwinked in a manner not unlike the way the war was first sold to the American public back in 2002 and 2003.
I've just been on a call with Gov. Bill Richardson and he discussed this very problem. As many of you know, he's taken a clear "no residual forces" position. Richardson asked the other candidates to detail how many troops they would leave in Iraq at the last debate but - as Chris Bowers has noted - this is a question no one else seems to want to answer.
On our call, the Governor spoke about Senators Clinton, Obama and Edwards saying that they want to end the war and giving the impression that the plans of all are candidates are similar. Richardson said "That's just not true. All three would leave troops behind indefinitely and American lives hang in the balance." He also noted that "this is the time to debate these points not after we have a nominee.... We need to have not merely a slogan, we need to have a plan to match the rhetoric."
Gov. Richardson is insisting that we, the voters, have a right to know where each of our candidates stand on this critical question. His campaign has created a petition demanding that "the next debate sponsors get a straight answer from every candidate: How many troops would you leave behind? for how long?" Again, this is one step you can take today - sign the petition and insist that we get answers.
It becomes clearer each day that we cannot simply rely on the new majority to end the occupation nor can we passively accept the candidates' claims that they will end the war. We need facts not empty promises and we need firm action from our representatives. We need to keep the pressure on. We too need to stand watch.
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SIUN!!
deux!
!!!!!!!
hey!
Siun!!!
wow just got home and lucked up lol… now on to read the thread ;o}
Good afternoon or evening gang.
Seems like it’s Iraq day on FDL …
Siun, what kind of an occupation is Edwards talking about?
Moving too fast for me. Wooo!
Siun. “Reed”-Levin plan. ;}
I want to know how, figuritively of course, we are going to knock sense into Reid and Pelosi. Are they really that dumb that they are gonna wait until 2009 to do something about the war?
LS @ 10
I thought it was Jack Reed, too…! Not, spineless Harry!!!
I want out of Iraq now. I want no attack on Iran. And I demand an equitable solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Which Democratic candidate is best on these issues?
Siun, signed, sealed, and sent!!! ;-)
Signed the petition.
LS - thank you! I was typing too fast … fixed now.
Betsy - that’s precisely the problem. I’ve asked for specific answers from Edwards, Clinton and Obama’s people - Chris Bowers has as well … for several months now. The silence is amazing since we get answers on lots of other things. That’s why Gov. Richardson’t petition makes so much sense to me.
Newly installed in her wingnut welfare position at the Manhattan Institute,
Judy Miller will be able to inject some badly needed,
well-informed reason into the debate on the war.
Not.
Siun @ 16
Heh, I get to shake DK’s hand tonite!!! :P
I really find Chris’ post really important reading … this is the most important question and it’s maddening that we don’t have clear answers.
done and done…enough giving bushco a blank check to continue this war in iraq - enough is enough!!
Hey! Nice going Laura.
CTuttle @ 12
Hmmm… corrected to the right Levin-Reed amendment…
I will vote for the nominee of my party for president. (I dislike doing ‘creds’ intensely.) And I do not trust HRC on matters of peace in the Middle East.
i’ll not cast a vote for hrc as i think she’ll continue bushco’s iraqi and irani wars… its that serious to me…
Juslin … I’m in the same place. But right now, I think it’s more important that we find out what each actually plans - and we push each to act now
to start the withdrawal now. None of this leaving it for 2009 … and no more “oh I’d end the war” but btw, I’ll leave 70,000 troops there.
While we are encouraging our members of Congress to “stand watch” for the safety and security of our country and to exercise their constitutional powers, let us also note that the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York has been “standing watch” for our Constitution with its decision yesterday.
Some words from the decision yesterday on unconstitutionality of the Patriot Act and its provisions allowing use of National Security Letters (NSLs) and secret gag orders on those who receive them. First, the wide-ranging effect of such NSLs:
That means FDL.
So what? The court notes the “possibility of a chilling effect on speech and association — particularly of expression that is critical of the government or its policies.” No kidding.
As a result, the court ruled that nondisclosure orders “must be narrowly tailored on a case-by-case basis” and such orders “must be subject to meaningful judicial review.”
The court ruled that under the USA Patriot Act they were not.
It also ruled that the Act denied the judiciary its historic and constitutional role in reviewing government action — a violation of separation of power.
Regarding the latter, the Act seeks to restrict courts from modifying or setting aside nondisclosure requirements to certain narrow grounds. Since such requirements may chill our freedom of speech and association, and the Congress has said that the courts may not pay much attention to that risk, the court said:
There is so much more that one could go on quoting this opinion for pages and pages. The opinion is eloquent and impassioned, while carefully parsing constitutional law.
You all owe yourselves a good read this evening. The full opinion is at http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safefree/nsldecision.pdf.
Don’t be afraid of it if you are not a lawyer. Regardless of your background, I think that you will come away inspired.
all ready signed, Siun!
I can’t believe that we are being treated to a new Osama video. The Anniversary Edition.
I just cannot believe he is still alive. I would be SHOCKED if he really releases a new video.
juslin @ 24
*groan* If I have to pinch my nostrils while I pull the lever, so be it! But, I will pull that lever…!!!
Siun -
I just sent the petition off along with a message. If it takes doing this fifty time this week. Well, so be it.
3 mins to KO.
Hounding our reps in Congress seems to fall on deaf ears. What would happen if we ALL started hounding the media in unison on a single issue on a single day. Would it resinate at all? We could make multiple calls and drown them in e-mails until we get some issues addressed.
Prof - thank you for the links on the new decision! nice to have good news!
ccmask @ 31
Yeah!!! It’s on!!!
Quiz
What is my most important job as a new member of the House of Representatives?
As the chief of staff of a member of the House of Representatives, what is my most important job?
You can friend Chris Dodd on Facebook and/or join his group supporting this bill.
It seems to me the only candidate that should be elected is one who says that the minute he/she takes office a plan to withdraw all troops should be drawn up. And as soon as it is drawn up it should be implemented. If one president can send these troops off to war another should be able to bring them home. I’m not asking for this new president to immediately end the occupation. An orderly plan to withdraw should be created first. Hell, it should already be created, but undoubtedly is not. So first the plan creation in no more than one month, then the implementation. This whole fiasco is completely nucking futs. So the only person to be elected should be one to end this fiasco ASAP.
Just what does pulling out of Iraq “responsibly” mean?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
Staying there.
Elliott @ 36
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2219892697
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
…from a position of strength…!!! Bwwaahaha!!!
I watched Senator Jack Reed questioning the General Jones panel today (a panel that seemed to deliver just enough truth to get past the BS filters of those listening, but whose mandate seemed to have been deliberately limited and defined by Congress so as to serve mostly a political agenda defined by the likes of John Warner and Carl Levin).
Bottom line: ‘What’s it going to take to get “the Iraqis” to take over the responsibility for their country?’ whines Jack Reed, cluelessly (or disingenuously). Take over the costs of the occupying superpower, so that the United States - oh, excuse me, the “coalition” - can start harvesting the profit, perhaps, Jack Reed? Get real already, Members of Congress. Do you realize how uninformed, obtuse, and utterly incompetent you appear by asking such supremely entitled rhetorical questions of a bunch of retired members of the military of our country, about a foreign, sovereign nation that can’t move a muscle without our okay??
And private contractors (with some help from the State Dept. or the Justice Dept.) are training the Iraqi police forces… Blackwater-trained Iraqi cops? Yeah, that’ll win the “hearts and minds” of the thirsty, terrified citizens of Iraq. Just imagine how Americans would welcome Blackwater-trained cops into their communities with open arms…
P.S. Thanks Prof @ 26, and the ACLU, and once again, our Judicial Branch of government, for standing watch over our Constitution, despite the best efforts of both the Executive and Legislative Branches to turn their backs on that “quaint” document.
Prof-your ACLU link is bad.
TexBetsy @ 40
and http://www.facebook.com/person.php?id=2873715532
ahhh KO has the balls to call bushco on their bullshit - if only dems would do so….. and mean it!1
CTuttle @ 41
I’m waiting for one of `em to let slip out: “Peace With Honor.”
QuakerGirl @ 30
I think I passed fifty yesterday before lunch..)
Alright, Wilkerson on KO…!!!
quakergirl@39
BINGO!!
more on Dodd:
Sen. Dodd bill would reform mortgage practices
from The Central Tabulator b
By Robert Schroeder, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said Wednesday he will introduce a bill aimed at protecting homeowners, particularly in the hard-hit subprime mortgage market.
The bill would ban prepayment penalties, prohibit “steering” of customers to higher-priced loans and take other steps.
“My bill will help keep Americans in their homes while also helping to restore public confidence in our mortgage and capital markets,” said Dodd, who is running for president.
“It will make brokers responsible to the people who pay them,” said Dodd, “and ban them from acting as free agents who play lenders and borrowers off against each other.”
Dodd’s announcement follows regulators’ guidance to banks on Tuesday to help borrowers avoid foreclosure, and steps unveiled last week by President Bush to allow some re-financings. Read more on the guidance. Learn about the Bush plan.
Dodd worked on the bill with several community groups including the National Community Reinvestment Coalition.
“We support Sen. Dodd’s efforts to improve the regulation of the housing market to ensure that working families are able to secure and sustain homeownership,” said John Taylor, the group’s president and CEO. “The need for national legislation is imperative given the millions of families that face the possible loss of their homes.” MORE
Prof @ 26
The link is NG.
What’s the name of the case?
montag @ 46
Heh, just declare Victory…!!! ;-)
ohh wilkerson just nailed dems on being easily fooled… go col wilkerson
and from Biden:
Biden Says Bush Wants to Delay Chaos
from The Central Tabulator
By MIKE GLOVER
The Associated Press
August 28, 2007
President Bush’s policies in Iraq are designed to confuse voters and ensure that a chaotic end to the war is delayed until after he leaves office.
Biden pointed to the turmoil that accompanied the end of the Vietnam War, with Americans plucked from the roof of the U.S. Embassy as enemy troops poured into Saigon. He said Bush wants to avoid such a stain on the end of his presidency.
‘They would not be the ones who would have to deal with the reality of picking people up off the roofs of the embassy,’ said Biden, a Delaware senator and presidential candidate.
Biden, who heads the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Congress will launch hearings on the Iraq war the first week it’s back in session. He rejected Bush’s assertion that an increase in the number of troops has improved the situation in Iraq.
Speaking at a news conference, Biden called for a diplomatic offensive that would reach out to major industrial nations as well as Iraq’s neighbors.
‘It’s long past the time we make Iraq the world’s problem, not our own,’ he said.
Earlier in the day, Bush defended his war strategy in a speech to veterans and warned that a withdrawal of troops would threaten the United States. But Biden said Democrats and Republicans have concluded that the president’s Iraq policy is doomed _ he compared it to the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina. MORE
JONATHAN
Please read epu and let’s see what we can do.
You are more important than you know.
This ACLU link will get you to their summary page with other links, including to the ruling itself:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/n.....70906.html
SeamusD @ 43
Try this one…
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/s.....70831.html
Betsy … the Biden statement is such hokum …
“time we make Iraq the world’s problem” …as if we had nothing to do with it.
Too Slow…!!! 8-(
There are several Democrats that would make good presidents. I resent the fact that the two front runners are being shoved down my throat.
Siun @ 33
yeah, good news. The link didn’t work for tho.
How did we get to a point where people like Paul Craig Roberts and Larry Wilkerson offer more effective criticism of the Bush Administration than Democrats?
james from downstairs
I’ve been in some dark places both in the past and in the present. I got divorced, lost the use of my left hand (with seven guitars in the house), broke two ribs in a car accident, and was disgnosed with cancer all within the space of 6 months from 10/05 until April 06.
I got over most of my Nam related shit through talking with other special ops vets and through working through it.
We can confront anything and anyone, don’t let anyone, especially yourself, tell you differently.
I’d really like to take this somewhere else where we can communicate in private.
James,
My email is jgtidd at aol dot com.
Siun @ 58
Just don’t shoot the messenger, ok friend?
CTuttle @ 57
yup, that worked.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
Heh, any of ours would be far superior to any of theirs… …’cept maybe Ron Paul!!! ;-)
I was in the military between 1968 and 1972. Fortunately I never had to go to Vietnam. But some of you probably felt the same way I did when that occupation ended. It was one of the few times in my life I was really happy. Unfortunately that happiness was tempered by the completely unorganized withdraw of troops. There was no plan to get them all out. That is why I say a solid plan should be created first. So the clusterf*ck of the Vietnam withdrawal will not be repeated. And more troops can get out safely. And possibly salvaging some of our equipment to be used here at home for Katrina recovery or when needed for a real emergency.
tw3k @ 61
twk, see pow wow’s 56!!!
I will vote for the presidential candidate who says ‘if elected, I will pull out of Iraq immediately’.
ADM @ 67
AND bring home our radioactive waste–why should the Iraqis have to eat/drink/breathe it–much less suffer through cancers and birth defects.
Jonathan @ 63
Remember, we may not be our brothers keeper but we are our brothers brother.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
Be careful with that… there’s probably a whole bunch of `pugs who’ll promise, really promise to pull out…. :)
ADM @ 67
The real clusterfuck happened after the vast majority of American troops were long gone.
Laura Doty @ 70
Umm, that’s not going to happen (if only because we’d have to vacuum up the top half-inch of topsoil over pretty much the entire country…).
With the Democrats rendered useless, maybe the Republicans can stop the Republicans.
Siun @ 16
Actually, I believe it is Reid-Levin just as it is Reid-Feingold. Harry as Majority leader attached his name to each of the bills (with the agreement of the original sponsors).
ADM … the problem we will have is that we have so enraged the Iraqi people by the way we’ve acted in their country - and we’ve been incapable of securing supply lines (we are flying water to bases!) that the withdrawal will not be easy. That’s an inevitable result of what and how we’ve done this. But staying longer doesn’t make it better.
One thing Gov Richardson spoke about was how we need to use real diplomacy aroud all these issues. That agreements like the Dayton Accords allowed for settlement of very complicated issues and we should be looking to similar levels of diplomatic engagement … rather than military force. I thought that was a very good point.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 75
I don’t think Lieberman is quite up to it.
raven @ 71
raven,
You and james are wonderful brothers.
I wish there were more here.
I wish I could tell everyone here how I feel when I walk past the Wall.
But, I guess, that is history.
I feel so bad about what is going on in Iraq, for both the U.S. troops and the Iraqi people.
montag @ 74
I know there’s stuff we can’t bring back. And there’s plenty we could –were there a will (have you seen the pix of the super junk yards over there–much of it radioactive?) We won’t do the right thing by it. But we should. And we–the public–should know about it. No more blind eye.
Dakine … I double checked and it is Reed. Though I suspect Reid will sign on as well. pffft!
In case anyone was wondering where Macaca went, he’s in Heaven. I swear.
from wiki:
Allen presently serves on the Reagan Ranch Board of Governors of Young America’s Foundation where he is a Reagan Ranch Presidential Scholar.
snip
After leaving the presidency in 1989, the Reagans moved to a home in Bel-Air, California, but kept the ranch as a retreat. Ronald Reagan last visited the ranch in 1995 due to his affliction with Alzheimer’s disease, and Mrs. Reagan last visited in 1998, before selling the property to the Young America’s Foundation, a conservative group which preserves it today as what it calls “a living monument to Reagan’s ideas, values, and lasting accomplishments.” Although the ranch is closed to the public, Young America’s Foundation offers students and supporters the opportunity to visit the property Reagan called “heaven.”
Thank heaven, with this administration, we don’t have to actually make this stuff up.
The question how many troops remain? In my opinion, a brigade (3000-5000) is enough for protecting the embassy, counter-terrorism actions, and Iraqi force training. It’s large enough to be a tough nut to crack and small enough to be low-key. any more, like say a division, is too big a force to be non-occupational.
So here’s my question … along with Richardson’s petition, how can we get the candidates to detail their actual positions? I don’t think we should let them slide on this …does anyone have some good ideas? something we could do? postcards asking How Many? or …
Ideas wanted!
Siun @ 81
It looks like most of the sites that bring it up on google use Reid-Levin. Ah well, ain’t the first and won’t be the last times I’m wrong about things.
Prof @ 26
Thanks for this, Prof!
Laura Doty @ 80
But, Laura we have our own sh*t in our own backyard…!!! 8-(
http://www.hawaiitribune-heral.....ocal02.txt
By the way. I am starting a new Gooper sheet to match my scandal sheet(2 1/2 pages long now). It’s called “Goopers-Where They are now”
Everyone on the scandal sheet will be found.
ccmask @ 88
…the Huge list grows Huger??? ;-)
Jonathan @ 79
Jonathan
Why not tell us how you feel? I would not presume to know and I believe it might be a good lesson for all who have not been there. We need you to continue on and perhaps be of some assistance to those young people who are coming back from Iraq every day.
Jonathan @ 79
Yea but don’t let this shit crush you. We have had lousy times but goddamn it it’s worth it to hang in there. You’ve got at least one child that I know of, that’s a hell of a lot.
CTuttle @ 89
Are you kidding! Everyday it grows.
Siun
Maybe we need a concise but quite clear questionnaire. Then we can compare their answers as well as be aware of who has not yet responded to the query. Firedoglake means something, we will not be ignored!
chez Kevin Drum:
I’ll be positive.
Everything is going to turn out all right.
Don’t have a concern.
Be positive.
Look on the bright side.
Things will turn out all right.
Don’t worry!
So Keith is talking about the huge fundraiser she is having for Obama. Star Power politics. What do you think of this? She sure has a big following.
Laura Doty @ 80
Probably not much of it. Maybe some medical equipment that could be retrieved.
But, what I’m saying is that the real problem is with DU dust. This stuff is practically molecular in size. You don’t just go out and pick it up, because it’s too small to even see.
There are, surely some unexploded shells around that still contain unburned DU, and those can be retrieved, but the largest problem is with the stuff that’s been successfully fired. It burns in air at shell velocities, and vaporizes and oxidizes as it punches its way through armor, creating extremely small particles. Those get into the soil, the water, into houses, etc. Gets inhaled, ingested, and that’s what’s causing the birth defects, most likely.
It’s downright crummy, but, it can’t really be cleaned up (apart from trying to precipi