Because the entry direction of the fatal wound makes all the difference to the parents of an Iraqi child who has been killed, doesn’t it? Via the WaPo:
…The intelligence community has its own problems with military calculations. Intelligence analysts computing aggregate levels of violence against civilians for the NIE puzzled over how the military designated attacks as combat, sectarian or criminal, according to one senior intelligence official in Washington. “If a bullet went through the back of the head, it’s sectarian,” the official said. “If it went through the front, it’s criminal.”
“Depending on which numbers you pick,” he said, “you get a different outcome.” Analysts found “trend lines . . . going in different directions” compared with previous years, when numbers in different categories varied widely but trended in the same direction. “It began to look like spaghetti.”
Among the most worrisome trends cited by the NIE was escalating warfare between rival Shiite militias in southern Iraq that has consumed the port city of Basra and resulted last month in the assassination of two southern provincial governors. According to a spokesman for the Baghdad headquarters of the Multi-National Force-Iraq (MNF-I), those attacks are not included in the military’s statistics. “Given a lack of capability to accurately track Shiite-on-Shiite and Sunni-on-Sunni violence, except in certain instances,” the spokesman said, “we do not track this data to any significant degree.”… (emphasis mine)
Lying about the numbers doesn’t make the Iraqi occupation any less a failure. But, as a simple reminder, lying to Congress is a crime. Emptywheel has much more. As Atrios said this morning, it’s a “faith based occupation.” Well, last I checked, the Lord told Moses that bearing false witness a sin…
Speaking of which, AJ at Americablog highlights a must read piece in Washington Monthly on the hyping of al qaeda in Iraq. When I say must read, I mean it. But don’t take my word for it, here’s AJ:
The author actually talked to regional and intelligence experts — not to be confused with “political” or “military” commentators — including names you probably recognize, like Juan Cole, Pat Lang, and Larry Johnson, as well as some you won’t but should, like Malcolm Nance, a twenty-year intelligence veteran and Arabic speaker. Nance is also the author of The Terrorists of Iraq, which is easily the best book written on the Iraq insurgency and a must-read for anybody seriously interested in the issue.
The size and impact of al Qaeda in Iraq is hugely overblown by the media, elected figures, and military officials. Further, and perhaps even more importantly, its purported strength is essentially the only security-related reason claimed by the administration for maintaining our occupation. Political manipulation by government and military leaders — combined with a lack of knowledge of situational specifics on the part of commentators and the public — results in a profound general misunderstanding of the facts on the ground.
Amazing how much better the reporting can be when you ask the follow-up questions and talk to a variety of people instead of providing steno service, isn’t it? How many more of America’s soldiers and how many more innocent Iraqis will be killed in the crossfire for George Bush’s ego? How many more?
(Photo of Iraqi children via adamhenning.)
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zed.
Dang
Redd!!!
Out of Iraq now. And I don’t give a damn about which candidate for president says they will do it “responsibly”.
Sickening, just sickening..
Lying Liars and the Lying Liars that lie for them.
Perhaps I should focus my fear on what we may decide to do about Iran.
I cannot believe the definitions between sectarian and criminal shootings…have these people never heard of shrapnel? And why would our fine army NEVER shoot anyone from behind.
*headdesk*
snip
“Depending on which numbers you pick,” he said, “you get a different outcome.” Analysts found “trend lines . . . going in different directions” compared with previous years, when numbers in different categories varied widely but trended in the same direction. “It began to look like spaghetti.”snip
Spaghetti or ethnic cleansing?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
I am very much afraid about Iran. I think it will be the end of many things if we do, and none of it good.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 4
I certainly like Dodd’s amendment over Levin-Reed’s…!!!
So…to the folks managing our war effort, al-Queda in Iraq is a PR opportunity.
peanutbutter @ 10
the repercussions will echo long into the future.
Some very happy news . . .
Leaving Home
riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
The great thing about deaths of persons other than U.S. soldiers: You can say of them what you want.
In Viet Nam, babies, children, old people would be killed. They were all Viet Cong.
Nothing’s changed.
In fact, the pols and the senior military officers have learned lessons.
according to one senior intelligence official in Washington. “If a bullet went through the back of the head, it’s sectarian,” the official said. “If it went through the front, it’s criminal.”
Shorter Baseball
Administrationtrend lines: “If we don’t count the strikes, we can stay at bat forever.”I recommend last Sunday’s 60 minutes segment on the Haditha killings. It is blood curdling.
“Where” the bullet enters: Possibly it might have something to do with whether the person is facing forward or backward at the time they are shot?
Instead: Criminals wait to shoot till you are facing them? And sectarians never face their victims?
What if someone has access to a military helmet? Likely you might try to shoot them in the face so the bullet does not bounce off the helmet.
These distinctions are so illogical – they would seem to prove nothing. But goodness, it’s a way to differentiate the reason for violence apparently.
I think this latest leak about nukes mistakenly aboard a C130 and traversing the country isn’t what it appears on its face,. It has false flag written all over it. And notice all the news today about “if” we were to attack Iran, how we would do it, etc….
The October surprise might come a little earlier this year…
EB @ 14
Mahalo, EB!
“How is it that all of this lies a short car ride away?”
Sheer and utter Fuckery!!! 8-(
valletta @ 20
Sorry..I think it was a B-52, and they were strapped under the wings..I may be wrong though.
Hi Christy.
Hypothetically, is there any kind of legal action the parent of a dead US soldier could take against our gov’t for wrongful death? It seems to me, between this and the Blumenthal piece that came out a few days ago, that there is more than ample evidence of lethal misconduct.
I find it difficult to believe there is no judicial mechanism.
This goes hand in hand with the pathological explanations by the US military about suicides in Guantanamo calling them “assymetrical warfare”.
Why don’t Bush and Cheney just start referring to an Iraqi final solution?
-GSD
EB @ 14
Well it’s good news for those of us nervous about her silence — she is alive and safe.
But she should never have had to leave her country like this. And so it’s an extremely sad post for me, even while I’m happy she’s alive.
I asked before, does she get any of the proceeds from her books (made from her blog)?
Bush has gotten away with ‘things’ for so long now, he just might think he can ‘do Iran’.
LS @ 22
LS, you are correct. A B-52 flight from Minot, ND, to Barkesdale, LA, with 6 nuclear weapons mounted to the hard points.
LS @ 22
LS @ 22
It was a BUFF and they were hard-pointed!!!
GSD @ 24
I wouldn’t be surprised if the code name for the surge was some take on that. They love throwing an ugly dig in that way.
I’m sure you’re right about the B52 I was going off of (bad) memory.
The gist is the same: where’s the MSM followup? Is anyone getting fired? Who leaked the info to the press? Why?
great. at least this time bushco is lying to the country we’ve got plenty of evidence and the administration is deeply disliked by the country. we’ve got a strong hand to push for a change…. and kos tells us (based on reporting from the hill) that Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer are signaling re-emptive capitulation on Iraq occupation funding. :(
valletta @ 31
They pretty much painted it like a stupid oversight, and then reported that the “person” responsible had been fired. Move along…nothing to see here…that kind of thing.
selise @ 32
I.Do.Not.Get.It.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
I wonder about a system, supported by modern technology and a powerful military, that not only allows but encourages a person in the middle of an impenetrable bubble to believe that whatever he (or she) thinks will become reality.
valletta @ 31
1) Not much
2) A Squadron Commander
3) the $64,000 Ques…
;-)
Elliott @ 34
i should apologize. for dumping on you.
i read that post at dkos… and immediately came here to vent and look for moral support.
selise @ 37
I share your frustration!
Lahoma just got in and said, well kiddo you did it again (we work at the same school). How’s that I said? She replied are you being coy? I was.
Today I gave a homework assignment to one of my algebra II classes. It was a word problem about how many people would perish if we attacked Iran. Show the work and get full credit. No right answer is probably possible.
Lahoma says you just love to take it to the limit, kiddo, don’t you. She knows how to throw my switch. I absolutely luv ‘limits’. Looks like another call from my principal is likely. Wonder how many days this one will take?
Elliott @ 34
Meanwhile, each and every nuclear missile is categorized separately. In order to “check one out”, there are tons of paperwork. So it was a mistake or oversight, times five.
women are so cool, IMO
they dump (intentionally or not) on one another
talk it over
understand
same page
Men:
Hey, fuck you.
You want to take it outside, asshole?
It takes truly craven people to jangle the numbers like that. Ugly.
selise @ 37
Galloway said this recently:
“The White House, as soon as it’s watched Congress choke down the so-called Petraeus report and recommendations, will promptly demand that the same Congress vote another surge in the war budget — adding another $50 billion to what’s already been approved.
The Democrats will whine and moan and bloviate and then, like lapdogs, they’ll roll over and approve the money, proving that they’re even bigger cowards than Bush or Cheney are.”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 7
“We”? Or do you mean the 4th branch of government, lead by Herr Doktor Professor Cheney and his neo-cons? I really want to see Congress investigate the orders that sent that B-52 from NoDak to an airbase used as a jumping off pad for the Middle East, with nuclear bombs strapped on and ready to drop. I’m guessing that this was a Cheney-Addington Op that was NOT cleared by Bush, with Cheney trying to pre-position his favorite toys.
I’ll bet this is Cheney’s calculus: The only previous time we used nuclear weapons in war, i.e. against Japan, the result was an immediate surrender and end to WW-II. I’ll bet Cheney thinks all he has to do is drop a few Big Ones on Iran, and the ayatollahs will drop to their knees and beg for mercy. Did I mention that Cheney is delusional and paranoid?
Bob in HI
Elliott and selise
MoveOn is doing a survey on whether to primary those who aren’t getting it. The options are ‘yes’ and ‘no’. (I’m surprised they aren’t using ‘h*ll yes’ as a choice.) They’re also counting pledges of money – not dollar amounts, but how many they get.
CTuttle @ 43
that stood out to me, too.
sighs and shakes head in disgust and despair
Oklahoma kiddo @ 39
Kiddo, You are the greatest. It is our duties as teachers to push the limits so that we DO NOT REPEAT the mistakes of past generations.
Oops, the tribe in charge is from the 1950’s, McCarthyism and KISS your ASS Goodbye. I prefer Peace!
Jonathan @ 41
We really are amazing. I have to agree. Thanks Jonathan.
P J Evans @ 45
thanks!
For some reason Repuglikans seem to think it serves themselves well to say all violence in Iraq is Al Quaeda.
Repuglikan debate news. Mwahaha. an oxymoron?
On topic, the Democrats should be cutting this reportage into soundbites and plastering it all over every available media source. Make the R’s try to refute it.
My God. How to exploit human tragedy for political gain. But if it helps end the tragedy…
I’m one of them now.
bobschacht @ 44
These were “dial a yield” bombs (boosted fission) that can go all the way to 150 KT. Theater level weapons, perfect for taking out entire army corps at once, originally developed for use against massed Soviet tank and infantry formations invading europe. Six of them fired from inside Iraqi or Turkish airspace would effectively destroy the Iranian army as well as Natanz if they chose to target it as well.
Except that there are these pesky problems…
Jonathan @ 41 –
ah, we’re all capable of behaving like assholes… or like angels (and your comment qualifies you for this category *g*)
Wow. Looks like we are two donations short of the 160 single donations Jane wanted yesterday for Jim Himes. WTG!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 39
You are positively Evil, OKK! …what’s the next word problem, how many parents your boss will receive…??? ;-)
P J Evans @ 45
done! thank you!
Link to animation on use of nuke “bunker busters” in Iran.
union of concerned scientists
Hey Al, I’d like to discuss this bill I received in the mail…a spa is not normal shelter equipment, according to my accountant and think-tank service.
RonD @ 58
That is the decontamination unit, sir. I bought it from a Russian firm and they had to call it a spa to get it through customs. That’s my story and i’m sticking to it.
And that was only the FIRST bill. More are coming…because now my dayam neighbors want in too. With their horses.
Actually I been meaning to share. But I found this Moyers profile on 90-something civil rights activist Grace Lee Boggs somewhat inspiring. And on Robert Bly.
Elliott @ 46
When I was very young my grandmothers house was burglarized so she purchased a dog. The dog bit almost every family member before she would give it up, but give it up she did.
Our Dinos are like that dog.
Eureka Springs @ 61
Only if the dog demanded money while it was biting you.
mui @ 60
I watched the show on Friday, and it was awesome, what a woman!!! 8-)
althespook @ 59
decontam units do not have butt-massagers, sir. Your neighbors…I suggest we use yours as a display and thus write it off, duplicate your unit, and sell them to your neighbors. Form a corporation and move it to Bermuda.
Sit on the beach and read the bottom line.
Eureka Springs @ 61
We’ve got to give them up?
mui @ 60
thank you! i haven’t listened to it yet… maybe that’s just the ticket for me tonight.
selise @ 66
…two thumbs, waaay up!!! ;-)
Elliott @ 65
Pronto
althespook @ 52
Do you mean, like, p.15? I’d copy and paste, but can’t do it with that pdf.
Iraq shows that Cheney and the neo-cons have never thought too much about outcomes and end states in any realistic fashion, so why should they change their M.O. here?
Bob in HI
Thank you so much for this information, Christy, AJ, and especially Washington Monthly author Andrew Tilghman. This is very timely and helpful detail, as these committee hearings on Capitol Hill unfold in the most bizarre sort of unreality. All Members of Congress seem to accept at face value (NH’s Carol Shea-Porter excepted, I noticed) that “the” Iraqi U.S.-puppet government (meaning cabinet members, never mind the rest of the parliament apparently) is or would be legitimate in the eyes of the average Iraqi if it would just “reconcile” somehow under our direction and command. The pure hatred Americans have generated in the average Iraqi by our uninvited, obviously catastrophically-failed and now exceedingly unwelcome occupation seems to go blissfully unnoticed or at least unacknowledged by the pooh-bahs in Washington deigning to inform those residents of Iraq what their future should and will look like.
Joe Sestak seemed to be trying to get a grip on this, today. All military benchmarks are a sort of sideshow, with these sorts of unresolved tensions among Iraqi Green Zone “leadership” (the guys with the guns), operating under the guidance, influence and favoritism of the American occupier “bosses” and our American-enforced martial law that seems to be the extent of our ability to “calm” that nation in the few pockets (Fallujah) that are so becalmed at the moment.
Congress would be exhibiting good faith and a learning curve by inviting people like Juan Cole to testify about Iraq. These blinders-on committee hearings are another sort of dog and pony show without such experts, and expecially without honest brokers for the Iraqi people being given a chance to share their views about what is allegedly still their sovereign nation.
The numbers on civilian deaths in Iraq are all BS. Many deaths go unreported. Bodies are disposed of or families bury them on their own with no official notification. In many parts of Iraq, there is no one to notify or those you notify may be the ones who killed your relative. There is also the problem as the post notes of deciding who did the killing and why. What you end up with are numbers but numbers that don’t mean anything. The real indicators are: How safe do people feel and are there more areas or fewer areas where they feel safe? The large and continuing exodus of Iraqis out of the country is a more reliable indicator of violence than meaningless death counts.
I prepared a graph of civilian death counts but have not linked to it because again the numbers don’t mean anything.
This is just a “drive by,” as I don’t have time to scan past comments to see whether people are on this already.
But I presume you have all seen this from the U.S. District Court in NY yesterday in Doe (and ACLU) v. Gonzales:
Judge Rules Provisions of Patriot Act Unconstitutional (WaPo)
National-Security Letters Ruled Unconstitutional (Chron. of Higher Ed.) (subscription)
Federal Court Strikes Down National Security Letter Provision of Patriot Act (ACLU press release)
A copy of the 106-page, 2.5 MB PDF file of the court order is available from the ACLU website.
Judge Marrero graduated from my law school a year ahead of me. He was born in Puerto Rico, graduated from the Bronx High School of Science. Held positions in the Carter Administration and in the UN and as U.S. Ambassador to the OAS. Appointed a Federal Judge in 1999 by Pres. Clinton, on recommendation of Sen. Schumer.
The Bush Administration will, of course, appeal this ruling.
We need more of this..(Re-Post?)
Mounted police charged in to break up an outdoor press conference and demonstration against the Iraq war in Washington on Thursday, arresting three people, organizers and an AFP reporter said.
“The police suppressed the press conference. In the middle of the speeches, they grabbed the podium” erected in a park in front of the White House for the small gathering, Brian Becker, national organizer of the ANSWER anti-war coalition, told AFP.
(snip)
link
ccmask @ 54
I am actually pretty concerned about Harold Ford’s challenge to Steve Cohen TN-09 (Map).
Whoaa, Barbara Starr, reporting the ‘young’ officers are revolting in the Pentagon…!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 67
If anyone says “I’m too old”, well look at Grace lee boggs, not to mention some of the WWII vets on the Lamont campaign, right Selise?
The feeling here is that the most important thing the next administration can do is restore confidence in our system of justice. Other good things will flow from that.
CTuttle @ 75
What?!
I assume the U.S. is broken.
My recommendation: look for an exit.
What is the exit, others have asked,
That’s for you to decide.
But if you follow what is served up to you, you will suffer the consequences.
mui @ 74
I’ll send him some to help out in a couple of days. Remind me, okay!
mui @ 76
Hey, Grace is an indomitable free spirit, no holding her back…!!!
I still cannot understand how so many of these power-on smarty pants DC types bought into the Bush lies for going into Iraq.
ccmask @ 80
Howie Klein and Teddy San Francisco were the first to bring it up. Maybe . . . I’ll remind.
Elliott @ 78
Venting their criticism about the Senior Leadership’s lack of, err… Leadership!!! 8-)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 82
How? Willingly….
I don’t know what this means exactly since mullahism is a feature of Shi’ism and not Sunnism. I think what the author is trying to say is that some Sunni groups would like to impose Sharia law.
Ah… CNN offering some clarification of the OBL video. Apparently, he’s going to talk about the legacy of 9/11 on the anniversary… how he’s won because we reelected shrub and forfeit our liberties or something like that.
scarlet p. is right, you know
.
Iraq is George Bush’s War
The Next One Belongs To All Of Us
my best friend just called, she got a great surprise today…..
she teaches high school art at a catholic high school….in a medium small city in ohio…..
one of her favorite students showed up today at school, she screamed and hugged him and hugged him…..he’s home from iraq…he’s out of the marines, tour done…he was a grunt….he visited her every time he had leave…..he’s going to be at our annual not too old to rock n roll party saturday…..a gathering of friends for 30 years plus newcomers….i can’t wait to talk with him…..
one of her other favorites is guarding a general in the green zone…..goes out when the general goes out, but otherwise, is stuck in the green zone…i wouldn’t want that duty, a general definitely has a target on his back….when he was at the vatican, before iraq, he bought her a really beautiful rosary from the gift shop and sent it to her with a note of how he remembered her teaching him about the art at the vatican and to keep his head low, don’t get shot she told him……noone’s life is worth your life……she’s still waiting on him to come home…..
she lost friends in vietnam, wore mia bracelets for years, has been to the wall to identify them when they were found, and her friends on the wall. and framed rubbings of their names from the wall…they are works of art…..and she wrote a book about a vietnam vet helicopter pilot who was paralyzed and became an architect….was really good, i edited it, but no publisher……great summer novel…..i’ve read it a few times just for pleasure….a shame it wasn’t published, it’s really a good read…..
so, just wanted to share that….that she had one come home with all limbs in thier proper place as she said today….she was elated and crying happy tears when i spoke with her…..
quite a few graduates from her school have foregone college and joined the military, it tears her apart….and like she says, there will be more as long as bush is president……she has bumper stickers in her subaru windows——george bush’s legacy, leave no child a dime, etc…..not my war, bush’s war…..many more…..
i have heard about all of these kids from her, she adopts them the minute they come into her room, i am so glad kyle came home in one piece……
CTuttle @ 84
oh good!!
Iraq is the Americans’ war.
So many, who now protest, argue that the whole thing was handled incompetently.
The whole thing. Was. Wrong. From. The. Fucking. Begininning. Period.
Blub @ 87
If he says this, it will be with some truth. Al-Queda could not destroy America, but America could.
“I have only to kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down!”
-Adolf Hitler speaking of pre-invasion Russia, 1941.
Prof @ 72
Thanks! I love it that this ruling is that the provisions are not just illegal, but unconstitutional! That means Bush can’t bully the Dems into writing some foo foo legislation that allows them to do whatever they want to do– like the stinkin’ FISA-gutting bill.
Bob in HI
mui @ 76
amen! (here’s marshall)
Steve-AR @ 57
Thank you for the link.
OT, Andy Card on Tweety praising Freddie of Hollywood as the closest thing to Ronnie Ray-guns that the Rs have to offer.
RonD @ 92
I’d go so far to say that it would be against Bin Ladin’s interests to attack us again.
Excellent post Christy. Thank you.
Someone is going to be elected president in 2008.
Nothing. Nothing. Will Change.
Speaking of lies, get a load of this gem from Paul Bremer:
(Shorter Bremer op-ed: “I didn’t do it, you can’t prove anything, and even if I did, there wasn’t anything wrong with it.”)
dmac — Thanks for sharing that heartwarming story!
Hugh @ 86
Your source is definitely confused about the Islamic landscape, and needs to be sent off into a corner for remedial homework.
Bob in HI
Baghdad, Sept 6, (VOI)- U.S. army said that Iraqi and U.S. forces, backed by choppers, launched in the early hours of Thursday a military operation in western Baghdad, targeting what the army described as “extremist militants responsible for attacking police forces”, while local residents said the raid left 19 casualties.
selise @ 94
Aaaaaah good times! Things are sh*t right now in the world at large. Our congress is busy sucking. But people like Marshall and Grace lee Boggs make me happy. There’s still hope for the rest of us.
Blub @ 87
He got everything he wanted, didn’t he?
Aren’t people who watch American Idol engaging in idolatry?
Jonathan @ 99
Hope you enjoy your defeatism; the rest of us have a country to change!
Everythingseemssoneat @ 106
Only if they worship.
The government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is in total denial about the daily killings, the uprooting of millions of Iraqis, the impoverishment of almost the whole country and even the imminent imploding of a whole nation….
http://www.azzaman.com/english…..fname=news2007-09-06kurd1.htm
Jonathan @ 79
No way. NO WAY.
I got 3 kids and 17 nieces and nephews. I am not giving up this fight. It isn’t about whether or not I find this news depressing to the point of despair: yes, I do.
But I will NOT yield to these criminals. We will not win everything, but we will make gains and keep them from stealing everything from these lovely children.
Stand your ground. Don’t be their victim. Take action.
TexBetsy- Interesting, I was wondering about that.
I listened to a rerun of Elm Street Freddie’s candidacy and all I can say is Halloween came early this year.
Redshift,
You are right about a country to change.
I have deep doubts.
I’ve grown to like a lot of the commenters here.
Most are smarter than I.
I share my feelings, hoping that things will turn out all right, but not believing that they will.
I look to Christy and Jane and Scarecrow and all the other front-pagers for leadership.
I give money. I make calls.
But in truth, I’m pessimistic.
If I should not be here, tell me.
QuakerGirl @ 112
funny but true,
so sad.
How many lives, American and Iraqi, and how much treasure will we allow George W. Bush to sacrifice to his god of ‘good and evil’ in exchange for greatness? He might have been more specific. He is already, a ‘great’ disaster, a ‘great’ disappointment, and a ‘great’ war criminal. He only invites greater consequences with every moment he persists as POTUS. Impeach the asshole, now.
Jonathan @ 113
you’re here because inside there’s at least a glimmer of hope, isn’t that so?
Jonathan,
Of course you should be here, we need your views. I only ask that you separate feelings from the necessity to take action.
I know a thing or two about depression, but despite what I feel, that does not give me the RIGHT to give up. There are so many people who do not understand what’s going on.
We do see what’s happening, and it is our solemn obligation to act. Everyone can do something:
Lead. Follow. Support. Teach. Learn.
edit—that’s my customary list. I’m gonna add one: Rest. Rest when you can do no more, until you are ready to pick up that Fired O’Glake once again.
Jonathan, try turning your despair into more positive actions, or even into spreading the word about how difficult the decision is.
Steve-AR @ 73
That link didn’t work. Here is one
Jonathan @ 99
Oops that’s Martin Luther King. Message is the same. I am listening to Moyers’ bogss interview now. The initiative must be ours, it will notcome from the government.
Thanks, everyone.
I wrote to Durbin about the need to fight this out on the “surge” and got in reply a standard response. It could even have been one I received before. There is a real business as usual about the Democrats. Swopa wondered earlier in the day where Hillary and Obama were. After all, if they want to lead the country, you would think that they would want to show they can by leading this fight.
So far?
(crickets)
Beyond this though and more generally where are the Democrats?
RonD @ 64
That is a REDECU, not a butt scrubber. Agree on neighbors, most are rethugs anyways. will expect check in nassau in two weeks, general delivery.
Eureka Springs @ 119
and then there are these protests in Australia with the big one set for Saturday.
Amilius @ 115
If the Nazis had conquered Europe, imagine how the history books would read and who the heroes would be. They would be idealized and whitewashed much the way we’ve done with Ronald Reagan.
What if we left iraq & the violence began to diminish discernably after we were gone? That would blow another huge hole in the warhogs ideology & they must be very afraid of that.
Amilius @ 115
Which always begs the question… How in the hell can this criminal bastard still be sitting in the white house?
Using only the issue of Middle East foreign policy, can anyone give me a credible reason for voting for Senator Clinton for president?
ironranger @ 126
That is why we will leave plenty of explosives and ammo behind.
(((((Jonathan)))))
Been there.
Blog: Bush Administration goes after Internet
from RawStory
And it’s official. The Justice Department is against net neutrality. Harold Feld gives us context. “It would seem that the President and the Justice Department cannot do enough for AT&T and the other companies that agreed to spy on the American people. Without network neutrality, companies are free to turn over user information without a warrant or block users from desired content as AT&T recently did ‘accidentally’ by blocking Pearl Jam’s criticism of the President during a concert performance carried on AT&T’s broadband service.”
Jonathan @ 113
Dang, Jonathan you certainly came to the right place…!!! 8-)
Elliott @ 124
That’s not the only one…. :)
Jonathan…
You’re OK.
I don’t know what I would do if my access to FDL was denied.
BBC:
US ‘must reduce presence in Iraq’
from BBC World
The US should reduce troop presence in Iraq so as not to appear an “occupying force”, a key report says.
Jonathan @ 113
Pessimism is way better than indifference. You have to see to be pessimistic. If you turn around and glance over your shoulder you will see that the dark cave has an opening. That is the wisdom and insight within yourself.
egregious,
You, whose writings I respect so much, are so kind.
Jonathan @ 99
Oops that’s Martin Luther King. Message is the same. I am listening to Moyers’ bogss interview now. The initiative must be ours, it will notcome from the government.
In other words, we can’t do it without you. Everyone else has drunk the koolaid to some extent.
ccmask @ 135
smoke signals
As Pentagon Prepares to Shut Down TALON Spying Database, Antiwar Students Group Talks About Being Listed as “Credible Threat”
from Democracy Now! by sharif
http://www.democracynow.org/ar…..06/1412250
Eureka Springs @ 140
lol probably.
Eureka Springs @ 140
Special Progressive Smoke Signals?
mui @ 143
Damn librul smoke signals!
Eureka Springs @ 140
I’d probably just smolder
TexBetsy @ 144
Damn librul and French to boot.
TexBetsy @ 105
Yeah, it seems like this is going to be more a victory dance (he’s even calling it an “Address to the American People on the Anniversary” or something like that) than just more fear. It is really really sad, isn’t it, that things have gotten so bad that something this mass murdering SOB lunatic will say might actually make a certain amount of sense. Urgghh.. how did we get to this place?
mui @ 143
Heck, I’d have to harness Madame Pele’s effluence to reach ya’ll!!! *g*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 128
Over the Republican candidate? To lead along with the significantly larger Democratic majorities that will be elected to the House and Senate.
In the primaries, no reason. I’m supporting Edwards for his courage to speak about the impoverishment of middle America and the necessity of getting out of Iraq.
I heard Ociansa is editing a new video which tries to make Republican candidates seem tough or something.
TexBetsy @ 131
OTOH, a federal judge today ruled that ISP’s must get a warrant to justify turning over data to the NSA or whoever. Sounds like some judges are getting tired of the BS (oh and the judge ruled the law “unconstitutional” so it’s a high hurdle to get over). Hope you’re feeling ok, i’m about to descend into the Mound From Mars again.
tbsa @ 127
I can tell you. Last week I was reprimanded by my daughter for bringing Molly Ann’s stuff chewie toy, Bushie. His stuffings are almost all out, he’s much thinner and is really beat-up. Her new inlaws-to-be were also coming over and they LOVE, did you get that, L O V E Bush. He walks on water.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Yes, he does show a side of himself that reeks of “I don’t give a f*ck what you think I’m going to do it anyway” occasionally that scares the shit out of me too….
ccmask @ 135
Yeah.. shrubco would probably like nothing better than to have a content filter switch for the internet… I guess they could always buy the Chinese system.
Blub @ 154
Or do what the Chinese do, pirate it.
And when do we get a judge to get those RNC emails??? I’m sure there would be a line of hackers who could easily bring them up.
TexBetsy @ 108
most of fundie christianity is about idolatry, if you come right down to it. They actually pray for mcmansions, lotto numbers and personal wealth. In my Christian upbringing, nothing could be more obscene.
CTuttle @ 148
uh oh.
QuakerGirl @ 155
These guys aren’t that bright
FWIW,
FDL’s basically told N=1 to fuck off.
I love everyones’ comments.
I appreciate them.
I have a hard shell.
But I wonder about N=1.
I know everyone here at FDL has has a fairly hard shell.
But N=1’s thoughts were valuable.
I miss her.
Why can’t Lotto let us use their system on election day? Imagine going into a 7-11 to vote and getting a free slurpee or something like that. Lots of people would vote I’ll bet. I mean, really.
Jonathan @ 159
who the fuck did that?
Jonathan at 159 — Says who? Not that I know of…
Jonathan @ 138
Thank you Jonathan!
ccmask @ 161
better check on whether it’s a Diebold product, first
mui @ 158
oo I’ll never forget watching the Bird of Paradise on the late nite movie
Christy Hardin Smith @ 163
thanks for lurking, christy. i am very worried and would like to know more about what happened.
Blub @ 159
You know I was actually kinda p’oed when Taiwan joined that WTO. Pirating is kinda like the Island Spirit, the spirit of the scrappy underdog and all that. Now what? movies that can be played in region 5 but not 6 or 7 courtesy of Warner Bros, or some crap like that? Bite me, Warner, Bite me. Phew. Had to vent.
Blub @ 165
Yeah, but I wonder if they rigged the lotto election if anyone would bother buying lotto tickets anymore.
OT, but I am so sick of the R’s & the D’s. I think I would like to see John Edwards win as an independant.
selise — I’m on here a lot, and I honestly have no idea what could be referenced with that, so I’d like to know as well.
And re N=1, we recently tried to help her find a new place to live and helped find sanctuary for her pets during the move. That’s not exactly excluding a person, surely? Sometimes people step back and rest a while during difficult circumstances, I can’t imagine she would be kept out on purpose. For what possible reason.
Elliott @ 166
I missed it. Was it hot?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 170
I think she objected to the use of the word retard/ed or something similar to that and several posters told her she was being too sensitive, etc.
egregious @ 171
yes, and i offered her my extra bedroom if she needs it.
mui @ 172
I just remember the firey end.
Using the smoke and mirrors of “troop rotation”, US forces continue to go up. The rotation only goes one way.
(snip)
Force rotations are continuing, and we have approximately 168,000 US troops in Iraq that are conducting operations alongside Iraqi security forces, conducting reliefs in place and transfers of authority, and training Iraqi security forces,” Sherlock said.
Sherlock said the arrival of more combat brigades will temporarily push the total to as high as 172,000 over the coming months before it falls back to about 160,000 troops by November or December as other units leave.
(snip)
link
Christy Hardin Smith @ 163
Jane used a term ‘crazy as a {?}’ which N=1 took as refering to mental health, when it’s really slang for ‘drunk as a skunk’. (I don’t recall the saying – not one I knew either.)
Elliott at 173 — Hmmm…missed that one. But I’ve had that argument in the past in the comments as well, several times, that people should be careful using that sort of terminology because we have a number of readers here with kids who are special needs kids….but that’s me, and I don’t like making people uncomfortable for no good reason.
GordonM at 177 — Well, that’s a horse of a different color from that description, now isn’t it? Hmmmmm…
Redshift @ 107
It’s flippant, unfeeling remarks like this one that just about kept me from coming back to this site.
Maybe the saying “Walk a mile in your brother’s shoes” should be the first thing people here think of before throwing out line and labels to others who are obviously at some painful psychic point.
Defeatism isn’t usually associated with someone who has been in hell, Redshift.
What did you do during Vietnam?
Jonathan: I need to talk with you on some other venue than this one.
My email is clichy at macdotcom.
I’ve been in some dark places both in the past and in the present. I got divorced, lost the use of my left hand (with seven guitars in the house), broke two ribs in a car accident, and was disgnosed with cancer all within the space of 6 months from 10/05 until April 06.
I got over most of my Nam related shit through talking with other special ops vets and through working through it.
We can confront anything and anyone, don’t let anyone, especially yourself, tell you differently.
I’d really like to take this somewhere else where we can communicate in private.
Elliott @ 174
I remember that exchange but I thought it had been resolved.
I do miss her here.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 179
i found it. i think – here.
jane and others jumped in with support, but n=1 was already gone…. and hasn’t been back. damn. damn. damn. she has been going through some very serious shit, and i think she had previously been feeling like we were a supportive group who wanted to help. damn.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 179
Christy: here it is
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..the-house/
james @ 180 –
please! don’t you go too!
(((james)))
For the record:
N=1 commented most recently on health care issues only two days ago and is welcome to speak here.
Selise, I didn’t get the sense that James was leaving, only that he was offering to speak with Jonathan about stress and despair offblog.
quaker girl 152-”I can tell you. Last week I was reprimanded by my daughter for bringing Molly Ann’s stuff chewie toy, Bushie. His stuffings are almost all out, he’s much thinner and is really beat-up. Her new inlaws-to-be were also coming over and they LOVE, did you get that, L O V E Bush. He walks on water.”
i know i’m epu’d but just had to say=======RUN RUN RUN!!!!!!!!!!
from experience, just sayin’…………..really, run away run away run awaaaaaaaaaaaaaay…………..monty python coconuts clompin’……..
i spent a few years in that time zone, it led to a breakdown…….went from my family of democrats to his of bushies, no compute…..i melted………..
egregious @ 187
i thought so too… but wanted to respond to this bit of his comment:
jonathan at 160
i was out of town, did i miss something about n=1???????????
what happened????????
Wrt N=1 -
I don’t keep up with every thread but wasn’t it she who was having trouble with really nasty commenters on her blog and talking about cutting back visibility at the Lake in hopes of reducing their tracking her footprint?
i sent n=1 an email that people were concerned………
Distinctions only a mobbed-up org can appreciate.
Put aside for the moment why the mob is dead (my theory is that they couldn’t compete) but think about what happened when the corporation became the replacement org. Not everywhere. But had the capability to suck out all the excess cash. Not spending it on hookers because Cinemax satisfies 90%. Not that there is anything wrong with that… but man, had to have an impact on revenue streams.
So on the numbers…
Political porn. All eyes on the arguments. Doesn’t matter though, does it? All that Jrs. cherished historians will remember is the actual events. The deaths. The bombings. Who told who to do what. The length of the engagement. All the noise/story ends up meaning nothing.
mui @ 74
I took a look at the list of candidates and it’s not really a long list. But, the candidates look terrific. Why, I wonder, do some of them have quite a lot of contributions and some others have very little? I know some districts are more expensive to run in and it depends a lot upon who the opponent is, but these guys should have solid campaign funds to have a real show of our support.
james @ 180
There are different attitudes about remarks like that. Sometimes people here just hug away and offer help and at other times we’re weary of negative remarks, many coming from trolls, so we respond more aggressively. It’s tough to be positive ALL the time.
Vietnam…Let’s see, it occurred during my youth and troop involvement ended just as I was about to graduate from high school. My brother missed it because of eyesight, but I was never drafted.
My view of Vietnam was very second-hand and distant. However, I’ve read a bit about it since and have discovered it’s still a mangled tortured mess of a story.