A federal judge in New York today struck a fatal blow to the Patriot Act provision authorizing national security letters. The ACLU, which brought the lawsuit, reports:
The law has permitted the FBI to issue NSLs demanding private information about people within the United States without court approval, and to gag those who receive NSLs from discussing them. The court found that the gag power was unconstitutional and that because the statute prevented courts from engaging in meaningful judicial review of gags, it violated the First Amendment and the principle of separation of powers.
The case is Doe v. Gonzales and the 106 page opinion is available here (pdf). You can see a copy of a national security letter here (pdf).
This is an important decision. National Security letters are not just used to get records of suspected terrorists and they have a tremendous potential for abuse.
NSLs may be used to obtain access to subscriber, billing or transactional records from Internet service providers; to obtain a wide array of financial and credit documents; or even to obtain library records. In almost all cases, recipients of NSLs are forbidden, or “gagged,” from disclosing that they have received the letters, even to close family and friends. This has been a severe hardship on NSL recipients, who not only have been forced to keep this major event secret, but who have been prevented from meaningfully participating in public discussions about NSLs. The court today held that because the gag provisions cannot be separated from the entire amended statute, the court was compelled to strike down the entire statute.
In other words, since the individual receiving the request for records is “gagged,” i.e., not permitted to disclose receipt of the letter, he or she can’t challenge it, even in a court of law. That results in no judicial oversight.
“Without oversight, there is nothing to stop the government from engaging in broad fishing expeditions, or targeting people for the wrong reasons, and then gagging Americans from ever speaking out against potential abuses of this intrusive surveillance power.”
In 2005, Barton Gellman of the Washington Post wrote a terrific article on National Security Letters.
I’ll quote just a few paragraphs to answer the questions, What’s a national security letter? What oversight is there? What kinds of information does it demand? Aren’t they just used to nab terrorists?
Issued by FBI field supervisors, national security letters do not need the imprimatur of a prosecutor, grand jury or judge. They receive no review after the fact by the Justice Department or Congress. The executive branch maintains only statistics, which are incomplete and confined to classified reports. The Bush administration defeated legislation and a lawsuit to require a public accounting, and has offered no example in which the use of a national security letter helped disrupt a terrorist plot.
….The records it gathers describe where a person makes and spends money, with whom he lives and lived before, how much he gambles, what he buys online, what he pawns and borrows, where he travels, how he invests, what he searches for and reads on the Web, and who telephones or e-mails him at home and at work.
The letters do not just collect records of suspected terrorists. Since the Patriot Act was enacted, they can get your records or mine fairly easily.
Under the old legal test, the FBI had to have “specific and articulable” reasons to believe the records it gathered in secret belonged to a terrorist or a spy. Now the bureau needs only to certify that the records are “sought for” or “relevant to” an investigation “to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.” That standard enables investigators to look for conspirators by sifting the records of nearly anyone who crosses a suspect’s path.
Gellman reported that the FBI had increased the number of national security letters it issued by one hundred fold, to 30,000 letters a year. A March 2007 report by the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General found that number to be a vast understatement — the actual number of data requests between 2003 and 2005 was 143,000. The OIG report also found 3,000 violations by the FBI.
For much more on national security letters, EPIC has a webpage devoted to them. Another interesting read is this anonymous letter from the recipient of a national security letter published in the Washington Post.
The Government surely will appeal Judge Marrero’s ruling to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. In the meantime, let’s all savor the victory.
Related posts:
- PATRIOT Renewal Hearing, Day One Wrap Up: Who Protects Us from the Protectors?
- House Judiciary Committee to Propose PATRIOT and FISA Reforms
- Bush’s Illegal Domestic Surveillance Program Also Expanded “Legal” Spying
- White House Denies Existence of Indefinite Detention Order; ACLU Demands Accountability
- Why the CIA Would Want to Hide May 2002 from Judge Hellerstein (and the ACLU)





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yes
Yes!
Jeralyn! Good to see you here.
This is truly good news.
What would happen if you defied the order and publicly disclosed that you received a letter?
Savor the victory, indeed!
*raising a glass*
To the Bill of Rights, and those who uphold them!
*ding*
Hi Jeralyn!
Jeralyn!!!
Jeralyn, what’s the current makeup of the Second Circuit? Is it as bad as the Fascist Fourth was until recently?
Blub @ 4
There’s this nifty beach resort in Cuba, I hear…
Peterr @ 5
*ding*
Great illustration, Jeralyn.
(((((((Jeralyn’s in the Lake)))))))
It’s a victory but from the Court of Appeals it will go on to the Supremes. Bush will either be on the way out the door or gone before there is a decision and the real decision may not be made by a court at all but by a new Democratic President and Congress.
As Howie might say,
“Down with Tyranny!”
“Long Live the Rule of Law and Not Man!”
Hmmm… I wonder if this will sway the Ninth’s pending decision…!!! ;-)
ulp… legal chat – time for me to lurk and read comments ;o)
Jeralyn, I was so happy to hear that you’ll be with us on Thursday nights. I have to run, unfortunately, but I’ll read the post later. This decision is such great news. Can it be appealed, or is this the end of the line. The final say…
My only hope since, well, 1954, has been federal judges. ((I was born in 1945.))
Why?
Because federal law supplants state law, except in certain circumstances.
Every time we win, I feel good until I remember what is waiting at the SCOTUS. When the Republican police state starts getting the stamp of approval from Roberts et al, then what do we do?
This is a Great Victory! The ACLU has taken the fight to BushCo for years with very little success, but this is a big win!
In the great tug of war the good guys have just pulled ahead by a few feet.
Brace yourselves for some pullback.
-GSD
Loo Hoo. @ 17
It will most certainly be appealed, hmmm… who’ll argue in front of Scotus???
One might suspect it from the words “106 page opinion,” but to be clear: that’s a link to a pdf.
Dialup users beware.
Or be ready to wait.
Hi everyone, thanks for the warm welcome.
I really don’t know what the penalty is. I just checked the statute, 18 USC 2709 and it doesn’t say. Perhaps it’s the same as unauthorized disclosure under the wiretap act, but I can’t say for sure.
F*ckers issued 143,000 of them. No, abuse, though, your honor. AGAG even swore to Congress that no librarians had been NSL’ed, except that they had, and were prevented by the gag order from blowing the whistle on his lying ass.
I donate to the ACLU. Glad to see my money is going to a tenacious organization.
Phoenix Woman @ 8
The Fourth is just about the worst. There’s at least a ray of hope in the Second Circuit.
FINALLY
people are starting to get it, this unsupervised spying is for one thing and only one thing
they are stealing
and that is how this MUST be discussed, I’ve been saying this since the very beginning, we can get legs and we can get even the furthest right wing nut to agree, they must be prevented from stealing our information
stealing…THAT is the word for today and for this ruling, WE MUST PREVENT THEM FROM STEALING OUR STUFF
msn it’s good to see this take shape but our democratic representatives have got to start usung that word, not “violates the constitution” but “stealing from us with nobody there to keep them from taking whatever they think they can get away with”
bing
Jeralyn: Out of the 143,000 of the letters, will we ever find out who got them, do you think?
Maybe it’s time that we began promoting small towns across America to stage annual passion/political plays that re-enact scenes from colonial history that prompted the Bill of Rights.
E.g. Hessian troops being billited in a farm house and living off of the farm’s resources.
Elliott @ 10
*ding*
Jeralyn Merritt,
So good to have you here.
Stick it to us.
I want honesty.
Jeralyn Merritt @ 24
thanks… a secret penalty for committing the secret crime of exposing the secret of being required by the secret police to secretly spy on one’s customers. Sounds completely American to me.
hey jeralyn i dont know from law but will this decision be appealed to the supremes? considering how the top has swung to the right what of it being overturned? or can it be?
So Jeralyn, can persons within this district court juristiction now reveal they have received a NSL?
Ace Armstrong @ 30
I love this idea. I was thinking a while back about the civil war reenactor’s who go around the country sporting their stuff. And I was wondering (and chuckling, actually) if 100 years from now, groups will do Bush reenactments.
From my scandals list:
A raised shot to those who’ve fought the battles to save the Republic, in the courts every bit as much as the battlefields. People like Joe Wilson and Pat Fitzgerald. People like this judge. And people like all those here Lakeside, who make the calls, demand the truth, and do it publicly, right out here in front of Big Brother and everybody.
(gulp)
AAhhhh…
Jeralyn – Have you observed a pattern of BushCo hiding its legal reasoning/opinions behind the ‘classified’ stamp in order to prevent judicial review of its civil-rights-infringing programs?
Thanks, Jeralyn. Your writing is greatly appreciated.
OT, but I thought folks would be interested: the LATimes has a long, very comprehensive article on Fred Thompson’s “early days.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/la…..31983621=1
Among the most interesting tidbits: Fred got his high school girlfriend pregnant & married her — and into her family which was a big “step up” in the community from which he came.
Wonder how the Goopers will like that?
Blub @ 4
Spotlight it immediately.
Blub @ 4
Gitmo
juslin @ 34
I would bet that if the Second Circuit upheld Judge Marrero, the Government would appeal to the Supreme Court. It could be 2009 before it got the Supreme Court. Maybe with a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic congress, we could just change the law rather than risk an adverse Supreme Court decision. Congress needs to remove the gagging provision.
Sort of OT.. but this fits into the secret police state theme:
Ohio Paper Portrays Iranians As Cockroaches Fleeing Sewer
link
The last time that I saw similar propaganda, it was a different animal and a different ethnic group, but the message was the same. “They are sub-human, it’s all right to kill them. Is this part of Ari’s media buy?
we have got to know that they have been spying on the people who might oppose them politically
this is also what they are stealing, they are stealing the personal information that they are not entitled, information that one or another politician has an opposing point of view
of course this is an effective tool against democrats, but even more important, this is an incredibly important tool to use against members of their own party
finding out a democrat is going to oppose a bill is no big deal and they can’t do much about it, but finding out a republican will oppose the bill they WILL be able to do something about it
and what about the closet homosexuals///their votes are surely compromised as soon as their oponent finds out their private lives as well
they are stealing, they are blackmailing and this is how every democrat needs to frame the discussion, we need them to TRY to say “no we’re not stealing” and then the democrat says;
“no? then why don’t they want the courts to make sure of it, why don’t they want to have to prove they aren’t stealing?”
that is very very powerful even against a wing nut, even against a neo fascist
stealing…that is the word
Jeralyn: I saw you on the Plame panel in Chicago. You were great. Thanks for all that you teach us.
Steve-AR @ 44
Stockholm syndrome??? Jeez.
LS @ 47
I hate when that happens…my Stockholm comment..in the middle of your comment..I apologize.
Steve-AR @ 44
oh my. Sounds like somebody’s cloned Goebbels.
jeralyn@43
from your mouth to god’s ear!!!
Jeralyn Merritt @ 43
It could be 2009, but given the whole “national security” argument that is at stake, the Supremes might act a bit more expeditiously. My guess would be that an appeal will be filed within a couple of weeks, it will be argued shortly thereafter, decided quickly, and equally quickly appealed by the losers to the Supreme Court. It’s not that much of a stretch to think they could get the case before this term is over, and then would rule by the end of next June.
The folks that stand between us and those who would usurp the Constitution are the officers of the court. This is perhaps the heaviest of burdens.
Blub @ 49
Sick, sick, sick. Prescott B. All in the family. Scary stuff – only, I’m not scared, I’m pissed.
Congress amended the provision last year, but it didn’t make it better. The new provision permits NSL recipients to challenge gag orders in court, but it also requires courts to defer to the FBI’s view that secrecy is necessary.
The real issue here is the inability of courts to have meaningful oversight over the process.
Jeralyn Merritt @ 54
Kinda kicks sand in Marbury v. Madison’s eyes…!!!
Jeralyn Merritt @ 54
and we can’t have our liberty without that oversight.
my bold
If you were scared then you would be a Republican….”Pleeeze Mister Bush protect us from the terrists”..Bed wetting M-F’s make me sick.
LS @ 53
I’m Livid!
So some judge did the right thing. Well whoop di dip. I see this doing nothing to end this fascist regime. Bushco will appeal, nothing will happen and bush will serve out his term and walk off with that smirk on his face for the rest of his life. Either that, or if you want to put on your tin foil hat, he will set off a nuclear device here in the states, declare martial law, end elections and take power for the rest of his life. Maybe in another fifty or hundred years all the shit that has been created might be fixed. But I have no hope for that either. Frankly I think the only way to solve these problems is revolution. But we liberals will never do that. We believe too much in the rule of law. Unfortunately the rule of law has been corrupted by the fascists. They’re playing us with all their little ploys. Which is making it possible for them to walk away with their pockets full of taxpayer dollars and no fears of ever being punished for their crimes.
sheesh, am I depressed or what?
“”The police suppressed the press conference. In the middle of the speeches, they grabbed the podium” erected in a park in front of the White House for the small gathering, Brian Becker, national organizer of the ANSWER anti-war coalition, told AFP.
“Then, mounted police charged the media present to disperse them,” Becker said.
The charge caused a peaceful crowd of some 20 journalists and four or five protestors to scatter in terror, an AFP correspondent at the event in Lafayette Square said. No one appeared to have been hurt.”
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/P…..62007.html
They are more afraid of journalists….than a few protesters…helllooooo
Can we not somehow tie this in to identity theft? That would enrage a lot of somnolent people who otherwise would rather watch the “reality” show of the week.
Secrecy. The soldier of repression.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
It’s the 2000 Election all over agin.
it will require that people not only “get on the web&chat about these “victories”(how-ever small),it demands that “americans”,folks who love freedom ,go to the street,,
Miranda is the next target.
Shadowstalker @ 61
yeah.. your guvmint can steal your identity.. heck, they could just make you disappear.
Less snarkily, I think your life could be totally messed up because your identity was stolen by a terrorism suspect and the security agencies started identifying the alleged terrorist by your name, and you’d never even know it. Presumably, your name would be one the guvmint issues its NSLs in, to your internet provider, your phone company, your library, whatever…
Does this ruling give Sibel Edmunds her 1st Amendment rights back???
Within the next few years, there could be four Supreme Court replacements. That’s why I think we need to work really hard to get a Democrat elected President. The Court has so much power over these issues.
In the Soviet Union of Joseph Stalin men and women disappeared in the middle of the night. Children were put into state homes and when they reached legal age, they were sent to camps to pay for their lineage.
This is the fucking United States of America, not the goddamned homeland or the motherland or the fatherland, it is the United States of America and I’ll be damned if some fucking representative of the new fascist state can criminalize what I happen to put into words expressing my thoughts.
We shouldn’t be worried about getting rid of the criminals who are currently running things. History shows that eventually they will turn on even their wives and families.
We need to start rooting out the pods who are occupying seats throughout the federal judiciary and start impeaching them for perjury during their confirmation hearings.
These fascists want to play at fascism? How about criminalizing the Federalist Society like the Allies criminalized membership in the Nazi Party after 1940 because by that time there was no mistaking what Hitler and the boys had in mind.
I’m sick and tired of people telling me to stop criticizing these criminals because “someone might hear you.”
That’s the goddamn point, someone might hear me and grow a fucking pair finally and join in and end this fucking nonsense once and for all. If it means getting rid of every sitting judge, every incumbent Democratic enabler, every sycophant who has allowed this to happen then that’s what needs to be done.
God help us if there’s another war started or another terrorist act here in the US before the elections in 2008. This is going to end.
It is great to see Jeralyn back on the pages of FDL! Welcome!
And another cheer for the ACLU! The ACLU has been knocking one home run after another this year, and even when it has struck out, it lost not because their interpretation of the law was wrong, but because the court ruled that they didn’t have standing.
Back a number of years ago, it seemed like the ACLU was engaged in quixotic crusades that were correct under a literal reading of ACLU values and traditions, but were hard to get enthusiastic about. But now they are taking on cases that no one else will push, and doing better with them.
Thank God for Romero and the ACLU!
– and Jeralyn! :-)
Bob in HI
I am hoping that this is the start of better things.
plans are being made as we speak to thwart the dems from taking the WH in 1/09…i’m going to check in at my hall of records to be certain me and mine are still on the books .. i put nothing past these fuckers… they’re already saying new jersey will go for the repug….
LS @ 60
Hello, for the wrong adhesive…!!!
Washington city authorities have said the posters had to come down because they were stuck on with adhesive that did not meet city regulations.
“At our demonstration today we were showing the media that the paste we use conforms to the rules,” Becker said.
james at 69
I hear your voice here.
Jonathan @ 74
ygm, bro.
Jeralyn I also met you in Chicago and saw your panel with Christy & Marcy. You were wonderful there.
Hugh @ 13
Can’t they ask for expedited review? Or do they have to have a more compelling case to make that request? I’m thinking of the precedent set in Watergate when the Supremes were asked about the tapes.
Bob in HI
Hmmmm…why is Abrams bringing up Manson…? Like he represents “dirty hippies”?
i’m wondering if martial law will be imposed….scare tactics now re- tape of bin laden being bandied about… get ready for fearmongering to begin….anew!
juslin @ 72
Frankly, I almost hope they do try something to rig the vote and then get caught doing it this time. We need to be darn vigilant… we should be planning now for poll watchers, exit pollers.. national, coordinated real-time info sharing during the election. No mercy.
bobschacht @ 70
:D yeah, hear hear.
we need more good role models like Romero and Jeralyn.
juslin @ 79
For Stalin there was a fascist under every rock; for Hitler there was a communist around every corner. Here in the US we demonized both while the Bush family collaborated with both fascists and communists before, during, and after the war.
OT: I found a wonderful website today by artist Jan Op De Beeck, a famous caricaturist. He has a huge gallery section of digital ones too.
Miles Davis
Madeline Albright
Pavirotti
Jimi Hendrix
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
Don’t see why Miranda matters at all when you can be designated an “enemy combatant” and be made to just disappear into years of incommunicado detention with torture, purely at the pleasure of the president. Somehow I don’t think they bothered to mirandize Padilla before they slammed the door shut on his steel box.
They may get “drastic” – or they may not. Cheney “think” is not likely to leave lightly.
Chance favors the prepared mind. (Pasteur)
LS @ 85
and Pasteur’s been milking that ever since
Oops. Website here for caricatures.
james @ 75
The real joke is that my wing-nut NRA friends who think this shit is OK are the first ones who will hear the 2 AM knock on the door.
james @ 75
Steve-AR @ 88
Yea but it’ll be them knockin!
Elliott @ 86
Hee, hee, yeah…!! It could all be an illusion too!!
Steve-AR @ 88
So will I but the difference is what will they do when they come?
I’m tempted to go to the camps just to say I told you so to a bunch of despondent fascist wannabes.
btw
this is the schedule for CSPAN tonight, can’t guarnatee the times but I’m certainly interested in the House Hearing on the DHS Satellite Program.
· Senate Armed Services Cmte. Hearing on the Iraqi Security Report (8pm)
· Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on His Iraq Trip (11:45pm)
· House Hearing on the DHS Satellite Program (12:45am)
Elliott @ 92
Thanks, Elliot.
If it comes to that, I think they will be the “Brown Shirts” in the drama.
Steve-AR @ 88
More likely that they’ll be the ones who’ll be recruited to do the door-kicking (do fascists really knock on doors when they show up to take you away?)
LS @ 67
Doubtful, depending on how narrowly the decision was written. Sibel Edmonds’ case comes under a different gag order, based on state secrets privilege, not NSLs.
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has already ruled for the government on state secrets privilege in a case referred to as U.S. v. Reynolds, in 1954, I think.
Peterr @ 5:
Elliott @ 10: ding
tw3k @ 31: ding
*ding*
(Does that make me a dingaling?)
Bob in HI
In other good news today, the ACLU says there’s action on the habeas front:
bobschacht @ 97
Elliott @ 10: ding
tw3k @ 31: ding
*ding*
(Does that make me a dingaling?)
Bob in HI
I reckon so…! Hey, did ya know Dennis is in the aina? He’s giving a lecture at UH-H, tonite!
Jeralyn@98
Ike? Really? I guess my three letters a week are doing some good after all. I must write again to thank him.
Judy Miller has no conscience and is drowning in the Iraqi peoples blood and could care less. This woman has no shame…
Why would anyone believe anything JM says or writes?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..63344.html
Libby to Judy
“You went into jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover–Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work—and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers.”
The Manhattan Institute must be part of the root system
Time for me to turn in.
Night, Jonathan….gang.
And yes, according to They Thought They Were Free, fascists actually do knock.
bobschacht @ 97
Elliott @ 10: ding
tw3k @ 31: ding
*ding*
(Does that make me a dingaling?)
Bob in HI
heh :)
segue into the dingbat ❡
Shadowstalker @ 100
*gasp* I thought he was the bluest of the Dawgs!!!
Jeralyn Merritt @ 98
Jeralyn, you’re just full of good news tonight!
And Ike Skelton? Wow. Not exactly a DFH pushing that bill, is it?
Kathleen @ 101
Which makes it all supremely ironic that she may very well be the only one in the whole sordid fiasco to actually see the inside of a prison cell.
You are right..I guess I was thinking of the NKVD, the Stalinists were more polite.
Take THAT you Fascist bastards.
(and thank you Jeralyn)
There is only one word for this stuff: Fascism. The parallels with the Nazis are evident–repeat the lies over and over, scare the populace, grab power based on the fears that you have created. Thank God we have a judiciary that has not been completely cowed.
I am not afraid.
Bush would be unable to turn the American troops against the people.
He doesn’t have the authority to make it happen. He may have the personal will, but he doesn’t have the way.
-GSD
outstanding
in other news …
i have an idea for how to make r’s heads explode
tell them that the person singly most responsible for hillary clinton being a ny senator and probly the next president is … rudy giuliani
rudy so destroyed the r party in ny with his misguided and broken senate campaign against hillary clinton that when he finally quit — after announcing he was divorcing his wife, moving in with his 2 gay friends and having judi nathan help him through chemo — it was too late for the r’s to find anyone to run
sen hillary and prez hillary happened because of rudy
tell everyone
“Kansas City, MO (Zogby International) September 6, 2007 – As America nears the sixth anniversary of the world-churning events of September 11, 2001, a new Zogby International poll finds a majority of Americans still await a Congressional investigation of President Bush’ and Vice President Cheney’s actions before, during and after the 9/11 attacks. Over 30% also believe Bush and/or Cheney should be immediately impeached by the House of Representatives.“
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5039
Ike is also quite annoyed with the Air Force.
Steve-AR @ 107
Heh, I was well schooled in ‘dynamic entrances’, knocking was optional…!!! ;-)
“However, up to 20,000 demonstrators are expected to march on Saturday and, according to the Australian Broadcasting Company, authorities are worried about the potential for a “full-scale riot.”
The police are are threatening arrests if demonstrators disobey the court order, but representatives of the Stop Bush Coalition said they have no intention of provoking a confrontation, stating, “The court order today prohibits nothing. Our rally and demonstration will be going ahead.”
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0906.html
Jewish Groups concerned about surveillance
http://www.jewishtimes.com/News/6903.stm
The recent congressional expansion of surveillance powers, aimed ostensibly at terrorists abroad, has Jewish groups at home worried that their dealings with Israel could invite U.S. government scrutiny.
Steve-AR @ 113
I can think of lots of reasons why, but what’s his?
Jeralyn Merritt @ 98
Skol!
*ding*
Bob in HI
thanx for this thread jeralyn you brought us some good news breaking our or should i say america’s way…i have given to the aclu in the recent past and i’m on the mailing list… i need to find some funds and soon… lots of people need financial support to keep up the great work!1
Peterr and CTuttle…
I actually feel sorry for Ike sometimes. He has to get elected in this mess of the 4th district in Missouri. This was the area that actually tried a year or so ago to get Christianity named the official State religion. Seriously.
Peterr @ 117
A certain B-52 carrying nukes.
Peterr @ 105
Here is an opencongress widget for HR2826
Kathleen @ 101
It definitely sprouted from those roots. Sourcewatch sez:
Former home of David Frum and Charles Murray (The Bell Curve), as well. At least they won’t be able to cite Judy’s stenography as being from the “liberal media” any more.
LS @ 115
Gee that’s almost embarrassing… Americans wont even do that and Bush is OUR Tyrant.
CTuttle @ 99
Yeah, he’ll be here on O’ahu within the next few days. I reckon we’ll hear about it at our Progressive Democrats of Hawaii meeting tonight. Some of our PDH folks are on his campaign committee. I think they’re a “meetup.”
Bob in HI
Steve-AR @ 121
That’s what I thought. It’s one thing when folks call Missouri a “fly-over state”; it’s quite another to discover that those flying over are carrying nukes.
Peterr @ 117
Overflight of a BUFF with nukes tucked under the wings…
Blub @ 84
I’m speaking of Miranda for you and me and all others.
wtf @ 111
LOL, excellent!
Eureka Springs @ 124
That was exactly my thought.
http://www.informationclearing…..e18326.htm
Who Are The Fanatics?
By Paul Craig Roberts
09/06/07 “ICH” — – President Jimmy Carter was demonized for pointing out in his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, that there are actually two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. Distinguished American scholars, such as John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt have suffered the same fate for documenting the excessive influence the Israel Lobby has on US foreign policy.
Americans would be astonished at the criticisms in the Israeli press of the Israeli government’s policies toward the Palestinians and Arabs generally. In Israel facts are still part of the discussion. If the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, could replace Fox “News,” CNN, New York Times and Washington Post, Americans would know the truth about US and Israeli policies in the Middle East and their likely consequences.
On September 1, Haaretz reported that Rabbi Eric Yoffie, the president of the Union for Reform Judaism, which represents 900 Congregations and 1.5 million Jews, “accused American media, politicians and religious groups of demonizing Islam” and turning Muslims into “satanic figures.”
Shadowstalker @ 120
I hear ya, I’ve roamed fort lost in the woods… part of the fourth, IIRCC!!!
bobschacht @ 125
In Hilo, or on Oahu, only?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 128
I think the point is that ‘you’ and ‘me’ can be Padilla too… just pick up a phone and say Zucchini a few times. And do you really think that the hard 25%ers really differentiate between Padilla and hardcore libruls? Coultergeist, I’m sure, advocates for all of our disappearances.
Ace Armstrong @ 30
Interesting! WE need to invite our Congress critters, too; too many of them don’t seem to understand the Constitution.
Kathleen @ 131
If you haven’t seen the supposed political cartoon that portrays Iranians as cockroaches pouring out of sewer in the Middle East, check it out at Crooks and Liars.
America is sick, sick, sick.
Never say never again because it is happening.
-GSD
Blub @ 134
Actually I’m thinking about something a bit more basic. The person who is accused of stealing a candy bar at the local store, or for that matter whatever the allegation might be.
effective “bring the troops home” ad at DKos.
Just talking with my friend studying here at Ohio Univ who is from Afghanistan. He says things are even getting worse there, (he talks with his very large family once a week) and people are becoming very discouraged.
When the Bush administration took their focus off of Afghanistan and illegally invaded Iraq based on lies, sure makes you wonder. Why not help create a strong Afghani Democracy instead of feeding Afghanistan back to the Taliban?
punaise @ 138
that’s perfect!
punaise @ 138
Whoa!!
punaise @ 138
Dang, Pun, ya do have some redeeming qualities…!!! ;-)
Daniel Pipes, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Woolsey, John Bolton, Micheal Ledeen, Bill Kristol and so many more demonize Islam
Kathleen @ 131
Ha’aretz is available in English on the Toobz. Maybe we could report on the news about Israel & Palestine without getting a pie in the face if we cited Ha’aretz as our source?
Bob in HI
Kathleen @ 139
What does your friend think?
CTuttle @ 142
Short and sweet.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
I take your point, but I think that in the mind of your neighborhood friendly fascist committee, it’s all the same thing.
Pretty soon, they’ll simply rebrand alleged black rapists of white women and suspected child molesters as terrorists, and disappear them too. Gays and abortionists will be next, probably…. terrorizers of our morality. A Discovery Institute fellow once called somebody I knew a terrorist in front of a congressional subcon for her pro bono human rights advocacy work. Those African American kids in Jena LA who stood up to mock lynchings are being charged, I believe, with “terroristic acts” for just taking a few swings at their wouldbe lynchers. It doesn’t end. In the fascist/neocon/theocon mind, everybody they don’t like/are afraid of is a terrorist.
LS @ 146
And it’s running against Ms. McConnell !
Hooray – good for them.
Two really great cartoons!
Badreporter on wide stances!!
Bush’s Pet Legacy by Mark Fiore! Super Snarky!!!
On topic . . .
According to tomorrow’s WaPo, there are signs of spines growing among Congressional Dems . . .
More like this, please!
Well. There has to be a point where even the most hard right ideological (& faintly rational) judge can fail to appreciate the very Unamerican, Alice in Wunderland/kafkaesque bound and gagged mess of nat security letters. that poor man/or woman in the editorial!
Eureka Springs @ 124
I was working in Sydney during the buildup to the Iraq Invasion and took part in a huge protest that shut down an entire section of downtown. It seemed the Aussies there were upset about their troops that potentially were gonna go, but even more upset that this was just wrong and there were no WMDs and so on. Australia sent a tiny fraction of the amount of troops the US sent, and even so, I was disheartened to find back in the States such apathy about what was happening. Disturbing.
Every single one of us must get people we know off the Conglomerate Media teat, and checking out places like FDL. Every day. We have so far to go still.
CTuttle @ 133
I don’t remember details. The Honolulu Kucinich meetup has no info.
Bob in HI
punaise @ 138
Haven’t those crazed extremists at DKos heard?
We’re kicking ass in Iraq.
Gag me..Jane Harman was one of the main rollers. She needs another primary challenge.
bobschacht @ 153
Mahalo!
Steve-AR @ 155
It could be that you’ve put your finger on why she might be anxious to avoid being rolled again.
Whatever it took to wake her up, I’m glad it seems to have happened.
punaise @ 138
Is there a Cornyn version?
Bush Officials may face new subpoenas in A trial
http://www.forward.com/articles/11284/
The MSM never brings up the investigation or trial, no Israeli lobby influence here. I believe it has been delayed at least 7 times.
Peterr @ 150
Amen, Padre, if anyone knows, Jane would know…!!!
Peterr @ 150
Ugh Toys for Boys with a fascist twist.
It’s amazing what boys will pay for: new satellites, new firetrucks, brand new police cars, to replace the year old version.
But when it comes to library, education *cough*, *cough*
Sometimes I feel like just kneeling in the dirt…banging my head..trying to elicit reality and sense into those that hold the fate of our children in their hands…….sometimes, I just sit, stunned by the inaction of those that we elected to act on our behalf.
Banging my own head has proved fruitless, nothing but a headache and anxiety…sitting is fruitless….
Our planet is dying. We have madmen at the helm..steering the planet…steering our very own lives. They are not god.
I implore all of the forces of good to turn this space ship around, now…strip them of their powers…we need this now. I wish that they entrap themselves in their own evil trap, and free the world…that is my prayer.
LS @ 162
Amen, sister!
Elliott @ 92
I watch some of the Senate Armed Services Cmte. hearing. Senator Levin talked and said nothing, providing excellent cover for the Neocon party line.
Levin is a piece of work. I’d sooner trust my used car salesman.
But President Bush told Howard “we are kicking ass in Iraq” today.
Showdown over Iran
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11534
The War Party is playing for keeps. Are we?
There is one hope, and one hope only, that could save us, albeit it’s only a stop-gap measure, and that is the passage by a veto-proof margin of a congressional resolution explicitly forbidding the President from launching an attack on Iran without a vote by the people’s representatives.
As noted above, this was present in the defense appropriations bill as approved by the Democratic leadership but deleted from the final bill at the insistence of AIPAC – the primary instrument of Israeli influence in Washington – and with the complicity of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In the Senate, Democrat Jim Webb introduced a separate resolution – Senate bill 759 – at the beginning of the year that would have established the same let’s-vote-on-it requirement for an attack on Iran, but that seems to have gone nowhere. House Resolution 3119, introduced in the House by Rep. Mark Udall (D-CO) on July 19 of this year, is virtually identical, and is similarly stuck in committee. Speaker Pelosi, who faces increasing discontent within Democratic ranks over the Iraq issue, could easily rescue it, but presently shows no inclination to do so.
The strategic conundrum the antiwar forces face is underscored by the current campaign of a group called “Americans Against Escalation,” which is running television ads exclusively in Republican-held congressional districts taking legislators to task for their support of the Iraq war – as the administration gets ready to bomb Tehran with very little interference from the Democrats. Yet war with Iran would be the most extreme escalation imaginable – so why the silence from “Americans Against Escalation”?
Sustained public pressure to move the Webb-Udall legislation forward could slow down, if not entirely stop, the rush to war with Iran – but we don’t have much time for the antiwar movement to get its act together.
Steve-AR @ 155
That’s what I was thinking. Harman doesn’t strike me as a great defender of the constitution.
Let’s hope this Bay City “Roller” gets her act together. If not, we need to make her Yesterday’s Hero. (youtube link)
Eureka Springs @ 164
Oh well then, there you have it.
We’re winning, can we go home now?
Eureka Springs @ 164
Can you imagine Commander Codpiece kicking any ass? I can’t – he is a cowardly little mama’s boy.
Eureka Springs @ 164
I cannot verify it, but I read that he also said in Australia that those who were against the war have no place in the debate. Anyone have that quote? Punk.
Elliott @ 167
Let me check my dog eared copy of the ISG report and call Ollie North, I’ll let you know.
Twain @ 168
Inflicted in life by an unappetizing speciman of a mother at that.
Kathleen @ 131
The Neocons never liked Carter. They finally did him in.
Still, Carter did put Dershowitz back in his cage.
LS @ 169
Duh! What’s a debate without two opposing sides?
Hi friends! Gosh, I miss you all. The new job has two down-sides.
1) I’m not allowed to use the internet for personal stuff. (I sneak in to lurk.)
2) I’m so tired I can’t hang out at night. But, that’s just the old synapsises (?) kicking back into gear. I’ll catch up in a few weeks, I Hope!
Those African American kids in Jena LA who stood up to mock lynchings are being charged, I believe, with “terroristic acts” for just taking a few swings at their would-be lynchers.
Not quite, but really bad all the same…
Jena Six assault
The following Monday, December 4, a white student named Justin Barker, aged 17, loudly discussed – “bragged,” as characterized by National Public Radio – how Bailey had been beaten up by a white man that Friday night.[1] When Barker walked out of the school gymnasium into the courtyard later that day, he was assaulted by Bailey and five other black students, and was temporarily knocked unconscious. The concussion he suffered has been described in the media as resulting either from a punch to the face or from hitting his head on concrete when thrown to the ground. While on the ground, Barker was kicked repeatedly. Barker was examined by a doctor at the local hospital.[2][1] After two hours of treatment and observation for his concussion and an eye that had swollen shut, Barker was discharged in time to go to the school Ring Ceremony that evening.[4] In the meantime the six black students, eventually dubbed the “Jena Six”[11], were arrested.
Trial, prosecution, and legal proceedings
The six students were initially charged with aggravated assault. However, District Attorney Walters increased the charges to attempted second-degree murder, provoking protests from black residents that the charges, which could result in the defendants being imprisoned past age 50, were disproportional to the crime.[4]
On June 26, 2007, the first day of trial for defendant Mychal Bell, Walters agreed to reduce the charges for Bell to aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated second-degree battery.[12] A charge of aggravated battery requires the use of a “deadly weapon”. Walters thus argued that the tennis shoes that Bell was wearing and used to kick Barker were deadly weapons, an argument with which the all-white jury agreed. Bell was found guilty and will face the possibility of up to 22 years in prison when he is sentenced on September 20, 2007.
Iceberg straight ahead.
Too bad we have Joseph Hazelwood Bush at the helm.
-GSD
Just wanted to say goodnight everyone, and thanks again for the warm welcome. FDL truly has the most engaged and connected community of readers on the web and it’s always a privilege to post here.
Stay vigilant everyone, we need you.
Hi demi!
G’nite Jeralyn, and thanks!
Oh also, my Congressman in NH, Paul Hodes is pushing Henry Waxman to investigate the Republicans dirty tricks in the 2002 election that saw Republican operatives jamming get out the vote phone lines.
This could be a very big case.
-GSD
tw3k @ 165
But she does know what she is talking about when it comes to intelligence related stuff. If she’s worried, everyone should be.
Thanks Jeralyn.
See my above post. RE: NH phone-jamming case. It is an interesting case that includes lots of Ken Mehlman phone calls and also possible chicanery of US attorneys in the prosecution of the case.
-GSD
GSD @ 178
About damned time! Dems should be smashing voting machines in public all across this land.
SeamusD @ 179
Sounds like she and Tauscher have had a little “come to Jesus” moment.
TalkLeft @ 175
It’s always an honor to have voices such as yours posting here at the Lake!!!
demi @ 172
congrats :D
Okay, so I just got back from Back to School Night. Why do the parents keep getting younger?
Did I miss anything? *g*
SeamusD @ 179
I’m not questioning her intelligence but I do question her commitment to the constitution.
Loo Hoo. @ 188
A great campaign ad on DKos, see # 138, I believe. It’s awesome.
Loo Hoo. @ 185
Jane Harmon is going to stop local police from using spy satellites on all of us.
Eureka Springs @ 191
lol
Great poster
From the Paris 1968 riots, reminds me of the illustration here. Very effective.
Margot @ 193
Parisians always are able to do a great protest
SeamusD @ 182
Harmon worries about Harmon.
And the money, of course.
How do they know OBL is going to release a video unless they all ready have the guy in captivity somewhere.
It just seems like the “cakewalk” deciders could find the really good hider.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/B…..62007.html
What will Bin Laden say “The Bush administration has fulfilled my dreams. I have witnessed the U.S. become a shadow of its former self”
Kathleen @ 196
According to the BBC, he put out a teaser on an Islamist website
PLovering @ 195
Feds probe Harmans Relationship with A*P*c
http://www.time.com/time/natio…..69,00.html
Rep. Jane Harman claims, “When the Saban Center talks, I listen.”
The Saban Center
http://www.brookings.edu/fp/sa…..ter_hp.htm
Understanding the Contemporary Republican Party: Authoritarians Have Taken Control
Part One in a Three-Part Series
By JOHN W. DEAN
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070905.html
Dean tries to help us understand the madness
PeterK @ 109
Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-wicKsoi0
“NSLs may be used to obtain access to subscriber, billing or transactional records from Internet service providers; to obtain a wide array of financial and credit documents; or even to obtain library records. In almost all cases, recipients of NSLs are forbidden, or “gagged,” from disclosing that they have received the letters, even to close family and friends. This has been a severe hardship on NSL recipients, who not only have been forced to keep this major event secret, but who have been prevented from meaningfully participating in public discussions about NSLs. The court today held that because the gag provisions cannot be separated from the entire amended statute, the court was compelled to strike down the entire statute.”
I believe any persons or businesses at this point need to pony up;
a). if they received any of these NSA requests for private information of specific individuals
b). if they indeed participated in allowing access
c). what precisely did they provide, when, and to whom
d). or face possible legal action from all victims of this fast and loose fishing expedition…
I want to share with y’all something posted in my chatroom yesterday:
Must. Bang. Head. Against. Wall.
Now – check this out (and turn up the sound):
http://tinyurl.com/2or6jw
“We’ll buy a flag when we get our country back”
My favorite line – “It’s my country too. Who the hell are you?”
Judges are irrelevant now. Laws are irrelevant. Nothing short of impeachment and removal from office will shut down the Republican ‘War on America’ machine. Too bad the Republicans control both houses of Congress. Maybe France will liberate us.
Steve-AR @ 19
I like your thinking and I agree that is a very scary potential. We don’t really have a good way to avoid that at this time. I’m still hoping, I suppose, that when the FISA law goes before them it will put Roberts and Alito and perhaps the other Rs in an awkward position of having to shoot down the Bush law because it’s not Constitutional. That will be a big test which will let us see where we really stand. Until then you’re right.
ccmask @ 29
Someone should set up a website specifically to let them sign and give some info about when they received an NSL and what it was about (if they have that). If we’re going to figure out the fight we have to know, to some extent, what, and who, they’ve been after.
LS @ 67
She never lost her rights. They are unalienable. Even an alien like Dubya can’t take them away. But, he can infringe on them and should be punished thoroughly for that. He has to be restrained from infringing further.
Peterr @ 117
Ever had Air Force planes flying over your head with nukes on the wings?
GSD @ 177
I just heard on NPR that Bush called Australian soldiers Austrians. And these are the people who somehow know best? Give…Me…a…Break!