John Edwards in Iowa
That a presidential candidate in the United States has to stand up and say that they will respect the Constitution and stand up for civil liberties and the Bill of Rights, respect the rule of law, and appoint judges who will do the same? Welcome to George Bush’s America…
Emptywheel and Glenn have background on the new Goldsmith book. Do read both articles, as they highlight some important background bits and pieces which really pull the Bush Administration’s penchant for disrespect of the mechanisms of government and the rule of law into sharp focus. This from Glenn just sent me through the roof:
…it was Goldsmith who first argued that the administration’s secret, warrantless surveillance programs were illegal, and it was that conclusion which sparked the now famous refusal of Ashcroft/Comey in early 2004 to certify the program’s legality. Goldsmith argued continuously about his conclusion with Addington, and during the course of those arguments, this is what happened:
[Goldsmith] shared the White House’s concern that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act might prevent wiretaps on international calls involving terrorists. But Goldsmith deplored the way the White House tried to fix the problem, which was highly contemptuous of Congress and the courts. “We’re one bomb away from getting rid of that obnoxious [FISA] court,” Goldsmith recalls Addington telling him in February 2004.
Their goal all along was to “get rid of the obnoxious FISA court” entirely, so that they could freely eavesdrop on whomever they wanted with no warrants or oversight of any kind. And here is Dick Cheney’s top aide, drooling with anticipation at the prospect of another terrorist attack so that they could seize this power without challenge. Addington views the Next Terrorist Attack as the golden opportunity to seize yet more power. Sitting around the White House dreaming of all the great new powers they will have once the new terrorist attack occurs — as Addington was doing — is nothing short of deranged.
Contrary to the claims made by Bush and his followers ever since the NSA scandal arose, their real objective in secretly creating “The Terrorist Surveillance Program” was never to find a narrow means to circumvent FISA when, in those few cases, it impeded necessary eavesdropping. Rather, the goal was to get rid of FISA altogether and return the country to the days when our government could spy on us in total secrecy, with no oversight. Of course, until they could “get rid of” that law altogether — through the only tactic they know: exploitation of Terrorism — they simply decided to violate it at will….
They literally decided they would break whatever laws they wanted — one law after the next, in critical areas — based on patently baseless memos issued by obedient followers like John Yoo. Not only did they do this in complete secrecy from Congress, they refused even to allow Executive Branch officials who were told to follow orders to see the legal basis for what they were told to do.
To know that someone from the inside of this malignant cabal of disrespectful authoritarian jackasses can so blithely lay it out for everyone to see? But only well after the damage has been long done? Beyond infuriating. We’ve known these people had no respect for the rule of law for some time now, but it continues to amaze me how disrespectful they are to each other…and to the rest of the nation. And yet, the whole thing just keeps on lurching along, doesn’t it?
I’m with emptywheel on this: why release this Goldsmith information early? Something is up. (Do read the excerpt about Mrs. Ashcroft sticking out her tongue at Card and Gonzales. Priceless.)
Related posts:
- When and To What Degree Was John Ashcroft Read Into the Illegal Surveillance Program?
- The “Mystery” of the “Other Intelligence Activities”
- Bush’s Illegal Domestic Surveillance Program Also Expanded “Legal” Spying
- Ted Kennedy vs. John Ashcroft
- CIA Inspector General Report on Warrantless Surveillance Released





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

ein?
(((Peanuts in school))) The joy of learning!
When I talk with politicians here I hand them my business card, and on the back is written this reminder of what I hope they will work to restore:
Constitution
Geneva Conventions
I do not like these guys.
drei?
Christy, the peanut going to school for the first time is an awesome milestone. I know it’s tough for Mom to take, but enjoy it for what it is. And fuck Addington.
Good morning all. Just finished reading through the last comments. Need to read this post, then I will be back. Nice rainy morning here in CenTex.
I hate the use of the term “warantless wiretapping”
yes that’s what it is but it is not powerful enough and it doesn’t communicate what’s at stake
I think we all need to start using terms like;
“programs that steal our information”
“the illegal programs who’s only purpose can be to steaL”
stuff like that. that’s what they are and I think in conversation we need to put this in the proper perspective and frame the debate
we need the “pundits” to have to defend against stealing instead of being able to “attack for national secuity”
I do hope a spring cleaning is in the air, comin’ early…
I think folks should know about this show, it is very good and talking about Presidential Secrecy. You may be more familiar than I am with the panel, but they are talking specifically about FISA and the changes the admin has made that were mentioned in the prev thread. Take a look.
http://www.onpointradio.org/sh…..a_main.asp
Spacer
· Rebecca Carr, national correspondent, Cox Newspapers
· Ted Gup, journalist, professor at Case Western Reserve University, and author of “Nation of Secrets: The Threat to Democracy and the American Way of Life”"
· David Barron, professor, Harvard Law School, advisor to the Justice Department under Bill Clinton and to Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee during the most recent Supreme Court confirmations
· Viet Dinh, former Assistant Attorney General under George W. Bush, key author of the U.S.A. Patriot Act, principal at Bancroft Associates, and professor at Georgetown University Law Center.
egregious @ 3
that’s good idea, egregious, nice!
J.Edgar must be smiling up from below . . . for now. Until we take the country back.
Hi egregious.
I left you a little thy note at 127 downstairs.
;->
Authoritarian murder fantasies.
All of these clowns have them. From Coulter dreaming about bombing the NYTimes or poisoning Justice Stevens to Stephen Cambone dreaming of lining up Generals for a firing squad to the dreams of Arab and Muslim genocide by the right wing revisionist historians and the AEI crew.
That is what they know and love.
It is what they consider “justice”, just the same way their Dear Leader Bush thinks.
-GSD
too bad speculation about Cheney’s role in enabling 9/11 is beyond the bounds of permissible thought.
Orwell’s crimestop:
crimestop – Orwell’s definition:
very much on display amongst authoritarians, but hmmm there are some impermissible thoughts around here as well.
Elliott @ 14
was addington one of the signatories to PNAC? I can’t find it in my bookmarks.
sporkovat — Wake up on the grumpy side of the bed this morning, did we?
Elliott @ 11
Ooooh yessss! I love that. I don’t have business cards, but I’ve taken to mentioning loss of our rights just out-of-the blue, if relevant to any topic at hand during conversations. It’s a good thing to “ping” people in the consciousness department, to remind them that NO, things are not normal now, nor will they be until we restore the rights we all take too much for granted.
These are not jackasses with no respect for the rule of law — they are criminals and their crimes extend far beyond praying for terrorist attacks. They’ve aided terrorists at minimum by turning a blind eye to warnings before 9/11, propping up a Saudi royal family that finances terrorists and launching the illegal war in Iraq that has terrorized millions of ordinary Iraqis and killed hundreds of thousands. In my more cynical moments, I also believe their supporters financed 9/11 precisely to achieve the power that Addington dreamed of.
Elliott @ 14
I think this is some pretty plain, and horrific proof of what many of us have probably suspected in our darker moments — with regard to what this administration is (and was) really capable of.
This has truly frightening implications.
anyone else get the feeling that Larry Craig is starting his campaign to stay in the Senate?
“Bush has made a career out of being misunderestimated.”
–Bush’s most recent hagiographer on the Today Show this morning.
Misunderstood? Underestimated?
zennurse @ 17
No he isn’t
here’s the letter
both sides of my bed are grumpy!
>grin
OldCoastie @ 22
Yeah, I get that feeling but then why the previous announcement that he’ll resign? It’s odd, all around. Maybe he’ll switch to the Democratic party! :-)
Goldsmith should make an interesting witness when he comes before SJC (or is it HJC) – anyone know when he is scheduled to appear?
perris @ 8
How about the unconstitutional governmental intrusion into your personal business and life?
How about the governments means to undo over two hundred years of the Bill of Rights?
How about the abduction of your government by the people by a cabal of scare mongers and thugs?
Intersting quote I had overlooked from the Draper article in NYT:
“Sitting in an anteroom of the Oval Office, he eschewed the more formal White House menu for comfort food — a low-fat hotdog and ice cream — and bitingly told an aide who peeked in on the session that his time with Mr. Draper was “worthless anyway.”
Nice.
Goldsmith’s book should be quite the interesting read.
I do think, however, that Glenn’s vilification of Goldsmith was a bit over the top. The guy did an important service to the country under difficult circumstances. That shouldn’t be obscured by the fact that we think he is generally wrong on the issues.
I needed to add an EPU thought from downstairs, wrt to wee ones going off to school. Gnomette went to small private schools in the middle of big ugly cities, so I was always there, involved in some way and then once she became an athlete, Mr. Gnome got super involved. (He finally got the basketball star he had always wanted, but it wasn’t his son.) The day we returned from taking Gnomette to college 1,000 miles away, Mr. Gnome stayed in bed and cried for 24 hours! Later we discovered that his emotionalism was actually due to the female hormones he was being given to aid his appetite after having had his stomach resected after cancer surgery. So now, whenever he gets emotional, Gnomette says, don’t worry Dad, it’s just the hormones. (He’s been off of them for seven years, now, but it still makes for a good joke.)
dalloway @ 20
That’s nothin’! In my more cynical moments, I firmly believe that the Vice President personally held the Radio Control unit that steered the drones into the two towers.
Apparently these bastards think that they can’t be brought to justice, because OLC opinions are get-out-of-jail cards:
That can’t be allowed to stand.
BTW, my youngest started kindergarten this year and is riding the bus for the first time. Luckily he has an older brother and sister to look after him so it wasn’t as difficult for us to let him go.
Plus he’s been so excited about finally getting to ride the bus.
It’s both exciting and sad to watch them grow up.
I’m not ready to believe BushCo would stage an attack, would they let one happen?
And David Addington just about wishing for an attack is disturbing to say the least!
Elliott @ 24
Thanks, Elliot, hadn’t looked at that in awhile.
Note to self, don’t bookmark EVERYTHING.
What a lineup, what a premonitory document that only <1% of anyone ever saw before this whole disaster came to pass. And look at all the buddies Bush put in key posts.
(OT, Yoga on the float has ended, I’m wondering if she needs a nurse now)
Greenwald
it takes two to tango, and the (D) Congress is out there on the dance floor.
burnspbesq @ 30
A lot of insiders are waiting for their moment to speak, but they will be deterred in part if they feel they will be demonized by both sides: the right for being traitors to the Cause, the left because they were part of the government.
We need to welcome them as they emerge from this evil matrix, shivering and cold, with a blanket and a warm drink.
Let’s be scornful and settle scores later, when things are safe. Right now there is too much at stake to take an attitude that we are so much purer than they are.
Elliott @ 35
I’m not ready to say they “did” stage an attack, but I can certainly believe they “would” if they thought they could get away with it.
If the past six years have shown us anything, it’s that there isn’t a shred of decency in some of these people.
Good morning Christy.
I would like to congratulate your team for pulling out the upset this weekend over Michigan.
I missed the game but saw the highlights and I could just see you jumping up and down and screaming at the TV.
Hey Busted — we played Western Michigan. It was a great game. Michigan (much to Twisted’s sadness, I’m guessing) lost to Appalachian State.
Bustednuckles @ 40
Wrong Mountaineers (Christy’s are from WVa, these are from NC), but while we’re on the subject, any Wolverines out there? (Yes, I’m from Boone, NC. Why do you ask?)
I may be naive (or sane), but I have never understood why these crazy people need to know all this information. What are they looking for? They obviously aren’t looking for real terrorists. Blackmail material? Potty stuff a la J.Edgar to get their jollies? I would assume it is about holding onto power, but how? Coup?
JF @ 42
Go Mountaineers!!! (I’m from Asheville and we’ve long known App. State is the best little team in the country.)
Why isn’t the business community up in arms about this?
Most companies have something they consider proprietary, their product, marketing, client or vendor lists. Then add the ability to cash in on the market knowing the inside scoop.
Just a simple question. Why?
egregious @ 38
I have to agree in terms of getting at the truth, although I share Glenn’s righteous disgust and indignation. From his perspective, and the one we greatly value him for, these are lawbreakers and their silence has been complicity. The issues that have kept them silent are generally selfish, fear of losing their jobs and status and money, IMO. With the constitution at stake, and the security of millions of Americans, I think that in the end they would have found greater recompense in speaking out. In other words, I don’t think this was much of a job to lose and I’m sorry that they didn’t see that at the time.
zennurse @ 36
imo, I think all those people were put there around Bush. I don’t think he gave it much nevermind himself.
“How about so & so for such & such position?”
Bush answers “Whatever.”
SufiLizard @ 21
It also shows Addington’s contempt for justice in general. After all where is the FISA court physically located? Instead of blowing it up they settled for gutting the DOJ
Bush answers “Whatever.” –Elliot
Yes, you’re right. see: Dick Cheney
Also noting that Norman Podhertz is now on Rudy’s team.
SufiLizard @ 39
If the past six years have shown us anything it has been by virtue of the incredible hubris this administration can exhibit. The mere fact that they flaunt their abuse to the rule of law like FISA in such a public manner has shown a white hot spotlight on activities that almost certainly stayed in the shadows with prior administrations.
There are spooks in the government, of course. There are cloak and dagger doings, of course. Some of these activites might even be justified in a way that would be amenable to the majority of Americans, particularly when portrayed in the right light. But the ultimate hubris of this administration has been the absolute adherence to the idea that the end justifies the means. And it matters not what the means are. If the means are torture, let there be torture, if the end result is to, “Make America Safe.”
Ben Franklin’s observation on safety over liberty aside, I think it is valid to question whether these people would stop at any level in the pursuit of an end; and, what means would they ever consider unjustified?
egregious @ 38
Hell with being nice. Roll out the indictments and let them turn on each other. Christy knows the routine.
It’s time to read or re-read Hannah Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism. She lays out the whole history of how it happened. It’s happening here. I’m more hopeful about our outcome than the other one, but I recommend those of you with the time and energy to take another look at this truly great book. It still has a lot to teach us.
SufiLizard @ 21
Since they have tried to sell the wiretapping/spying as a way to PREVENT terrorist attacks – yet drool over the benefits of an attack for their program – the illogic is breath-taking.
wigwam @ 33
Isn’t a large part of the president’s authority to make appointments defined by statute? Couldn’t Congress, by way of legislation, reserve critical oversight appointments to itself?
i was behind on reading the news this morning and am just starting to catch up… and now i am back to being as furious as i was 4 weeks ago after congress passed the administration’s fisa changes.
from glenn, in his comments:
we’re now way beyond the issue of rule of law… because we’ve got a stack of laws that are immoral and unjust. from approving the iraq war to the mca to fisa – we’re no longer in the realm of lawlessness, we’re now creating a system of evil laws.
Heh, got busy.
Sorry for the mix up. I was thinking about you, anyway.
*g*
Bumper Sticker of the Weekend –
January 20, 2009
The Terror Will Be Over
egregious @ 38
I agree completely. Let them emulate John Dean and atone for thier sins.
Knut Wicksell @ 52
Also, Arendt’s phrase “banality of evil” comes to mind.
Fern @ 53
A point was made upthread about the ends justifying the means. The real question is “what ends” are they aiming for? They say they are doing everything they do in order to prevent terrorist attack, yet they need a terrorist attack to justify their actions. Occam’s Razor suggests their ends are not what they say they are.
OldCoastie @ 22
Oh, yeah. He gave himself 30 days to make it happen………s/b an interesting month.
Waccamaw @ 61
He’s got Specktor egging him on, too.
Helpless Dancer @ 54
Hmmmmm. IIRC the Office of Legal Counsel is not created by the constitution. I guess that the issue is whether the next president will appoint an AG, who’ll persue these cases. Also, there’s the question of whether SCOTUS will buy the advice-of-counsel defense.
Elliott @ 24
So what was it that Richard Armitage signed? The letter to Pres. Clinton regarding attacking Iraq?
-ck- @ 57
Boy don’t I wish, but I fear it will take years of diplomacy and legislation to undo the layers of new irritants this administration has created. Whoever is elected will need to clearly understand that and be prepared oto offer more than platitudes about how they plan to begin that task.
Elliott @ 62
Morning Elliott.
Just remember that “Wide Stance” has to raise money before he can decide, and that is going to be slim pickings in Idaho.
Knut Wicksell @ 52
With that thought in mind, I have a suggestion for a book salon post. I heard a interview on a talk radio show with Naomi Wolfe on her book The End of America. In it she lays out the fairly straightforward way in which open societies can be shut down.
Ann in AZ @ 64
yes, here’s that letter, there earlier link was to a statement, sorry I wasn’t more specific
this is the letter to Clinton that Armitage signed.
Ann in AZ @ 28
those work but the wingnuts will use the ole’
“if you aren’t doing anything wrong what’s the differance’
and we have to hit them with
“because they are stealing from me”
hit them over the head with that and shut their face right up
Morning newtonusr!
Elliott @ 62
I don’t really want a legislator who can’t understand the implications of a guilty plea and wants a takeback. Period.
newtonusr @ 66
How hard will it be to go stall to stall asking for donations?
zennurse @ 17
I wrote this downstairs but it is on point here;
we know as a fact the entire pnac’s goal was to destabalize the middle east
what kind of moron disbands an entire nations armed forces without giving them work?
what kind of moron disbands this group of unemployed men WITH their weaponry?
what kind of moron?
what kind of moron doesn’t protect the infrastructure, the water works, the electricity, THE FRIGGIN OIL?
what kind of moron allows looting of mosques, libraries and museums?’
what kind of moron?
the kind that wants there to be an insurgency that’s what kind
newtonusr @ 66
Maybe he is just hoping to run out his current term – not run in the next election.
JF @ 60
When Karl Rove stated that his goal was a permanent Republican majority, I’m sure that was at least a piece of the plan and he certainly exhibited that he would transgress any ethic in order to achieve that end.
But, ultimately, Karl’s aspirations probably dovetailed with the greater aim of the military industrial complex, to achieve a combined state of capitalism and conflict whereby vast sums of wealth will always be available to those in power. When Karl’s motives where no longer of value to that end (probably it was determined that the puppet strings are far too visible), then he was jettisoned.
What’s the ultimate goal of the supposed shadowy figures? To make money and stay in power? That seems so mundane but, again, Occam’s razor might suggest it is just that simple.
OT – Has the push to Iran begun?
Washington Times
Key quote:
zennurse @ 65
How many millions of years did it take the evolutionary process to develop vertebrates? How long will it take Democrats to re-grow their spines?
Sadly we’re WAY past the point of “electing Democrats will solve all our problems.” In too many instances too many Democrats are actually part of the problem too.
Sadly, barring some miracle (a Kucinich presidency as one example) I’m afraid the terror will linger for quite a few years after the ‘08 election even the Democrats win.
Getting “REAL” progressives into congress is a good start, and certainly any of the Democratic candidates will be better than any of the Republicans for president (I’ll save my Hillary snipes for another post).
But we need to be realistic about how much time and effort is going to be involved in undoing all the damage that’s been done for the past 6 years, not-to-mention the past 30.
Wasn’t the first sign of the Iran push to be that Bush cancelled his appearance at the APEC summit? He’s there now.
From the NYTimes on August 19:
(NYTimes link behind TimesSelect firewall.)
egregious @ 38
With all due respect, (and I do respect you immensely) isn’t that a false dichotomy? I mean, we can welcome the truth, if indeed it is the truth, while holding on to our suspicions and judgments.
I keep reading in these comments things like, “If the last six years have taught us anything,” and so on, but what the people involved in this administration are capable of doing has been obvious from well before Bush became president, had anyone been willing to truly pay attention. I know I was. Look at these people in Texas, and throughout their history. They are souless bastards who serve one thing, and one thing only: money. And they are not afraid to look all reconciliatory and confessional if it’ll help them in their singular goal: the pursuit of money for themselves and their friends.
What they were doing was much more obvious before they got the presidency and put a virtual shut down on the media, and people who have only begun to pay close attention in the last few years aren’t really aware of it. I think it might help to go back and look at those years and follow all the threads. I think in light of the whole picture, reconciliation is not advisable. A straight, unemotional line to the truth is what is called for here, in my opinion. A sort of, “Thanks for speaking up, but you also have some accountability, so stop clutching your pearls.”
The Goldsmith article in NYT Magazine is wild. His role in all of this is incredible.
OldCoastie @ 22
anyone else get the feeling that Larry Craig is starting his campaign to stay in the Senate?
the other night either Mitch or bmaz posted his *mailed-in* plea agreement – and it doesn’t mention the right to counsel anywhere within the four corners of the document. Since seeing the agreement, I now think that it’s entirely possible that the plea might successfully be withdrawn. I also think that, if they can find 6 people in Idaho who can qualify as jurors, he might actually win the case.
Whole bunch of interesting implications there should all of that happen, imo.
egregious @ 38
Amen. To coin a phrase.
Elliott @ 68
He’s certainly in good company for a guy who’s reportedly “not a neocon” and “against the Iraq war,” isn’t he?
Helpless Dancer @ 54
Now that you mention it, I recall that John McCain wrote this get-out-of-jail provision into his Detainee-Treatment Act (December, 2005):
Emphasis mine.
Ann in AZ @ 84
indeed, indeed.
btw, whichever ad guy came up with the “Viva V*agra” commercial? Needs a smack. Blergh…
JF @ 60
Money. We’ll probably faint when it’s finally revealed what all those immense wiretapping and data mining operations cost the government.
Somewhere, a friend of Cheney’s is trying to read every e-mail sent in the USA and charging the government five cents a word for his “labors.” There are no useful results in the struggle against terrorism. There were never expected to be any useful results. When we find the formula they were using for their data mining, it will probably turn out to be worthless. But someone will have made themselves nine or ten figures of income out of it.
Money. Always follow the money. Just another part of the vast looting operation going on.
In a new book on the Bush presidency, entitled “Dead Certain,” former Texas Monthly senior editor Robert Draper reveals that First Lady Laura Bush refers to her husband’s longtime political adviser, Karl Rove, as “Pigpen,” the perpetually dirty character from Charles Schulz’ “Peanuts” comic strip.
Pickles backing the bus over Turblossoms flaccid ass.
She has some experience in that particular action.
-GSD
From Jeffrey Rosen’s piece in the NYTimes Magazine (due out in print next Sunday):
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
btw, whichever ad guy came up with the “Viva V*agra” commercial? Needs a smack. Blergh…
Boy, ain’t that the truth – first time I saw it – I was kinda digging the music, thinking that “hey those guys are pretty good” – and then came the chorus…
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
A straight, unemotional line to the truth is what is called for here, in my opinion. A sort of, “Thanks for speaking up, but you also have some accountability, so stop clutching your pearls.”– Anna Belle
Agree. Theirs was a straight, unemotional line to disaster; I’m not inclined to think they were victims and do think the timing of their “come to J—s” moment is predictable and suspect. Only now, in the lame duck months is it safe to publish and disclose those huge fees and royalties. Did they stay in the system they now expose beacause they were so disgusted with it or because they were victims and Karl and Dick had guns to their heads? No. They are opportunists either way.
I’m glad for the information but lives could have been saved if they had spoken up and taken their chances with history.
dalloway @ 44
We’ve been pretty excited here. My son-in-law called the game and you can bet his wife is very proud of him. They both work for Appy
wigwam @ 85
So much for the precedents set by Nurenburg
Emphasis mine.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
Yep.
“Hey America, even roadhouse dudes on motorcycles who play the Blues suffer from ED…”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
Speaking of commercials: What’s up with the Hispanic bee in that Nosonex teevee commercial?
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
i had the pleasure of seeing john edwards speak in los angeles a few weeks ago. as i wrote on skippy:
i am tending more and more towards edwards as a candidate. if only the mmm (multi-millionaire media) would be impartial and let his message come thru (but of course they won’t because he’s anti-establishment).
Helpless Dancer @ 93
these are war criminals and we will only be able to begin the repair of this nations integrity if we bring these war criminals to the bar of international justice
zennurse @ 92
and don’t forget what happened when we essentially forgave the Iran-Contra contractors, that’s a direct line to where we are now.
Interesting.
“Strike an agreement granting them complete amnesty, in exchange for a total end to the abuse and full disclosure of all information.”
and
“Apparently these bastards think that they can’t be brought to justice”
HD @ 54
Interesting thought …
how about oversight of a branch being done by people chosen by the other two branches? That is, the judiciary gets oversight by the executive and legislative, and so on.
peanutbutter @ 26
Oh, God, no. That would be a brilliant tactical maneuver, though, if the GOP started making all their outed guys switch party affiliation.
Elliott @ 99
Absolutely! And the subsequent rewriting of history have seen things like Oliver North portrayed as a hero. Remember this Oliver North?
1,588 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen JohnSwiftly and the Firepup Patriots:
“…the greater aim of the military industrial complex, to achieve a combined state of capitalism and conflict, whereby vast sums of wealth will always be available to those in power.”
Thank you for that direct statement of the analysis we learned from the last great American Imperial adventure. Unfortunately, those who learned from teach-ins, protests, living politics or from fighting in Vietnam were marginalized, co opted, jailed or worse…now, the understanding of capitalism and war must be learned all over again against a population that has been cowed and disarticulated from its own history of rebellion and protest.
I hope to hear more from you…these youngsters today need a bit of direction in their political education.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NO ONE IS GUNNA DO IT FOR YA!!
johnSwifty @ 103
blerggh
Elliott @ 99
Exactly. I think we have got to stop thinking about foreign policy (and domestic policy for that matter) in four-or-eight-year increments. The progressive blogosphere has begun talking about it more holistically, and talking about the trajectory of careers and drawing clear lines about who is benefiting from these placements and how. Democrats should also adopt this method, but they won’t.
I did want to point out, because I was confused about the point about fees and royalties: Goldsmith is supposedly donating all the proceeds from the book to charity. I’d like to know exactly what that charity is, of course.
zennurse @ 100
Indeed. And truly, I could go either way. My goal is a just, sane, and healthy society. If that can be achieved, I don’t care about punishment.
The problem is, of course, that there would have to be some way to guarantee the complete cessation of abuse, and that — as near as I can tell — is impossible.
The next-best thing is to make consequences for misbehavior severe and inescapable, regardless of how sorry the perpetrators are later on. If I’m not mistaken, this is a fundamental aspect of the idea of “rule of law”.
P J Evans @ 101
It would have to be very carefully implemented. Otherwise it would turn into a revolving cl*sterf*ck.
Elliott @ 105
Shell oil – Sultan of Brunei – Oliver North – $for Nicaragua – Mohammad Al-Fayed (married to arms dealer Kashoggi’s sister)- Dodi Al-Fayed – Princess Diana.
You can’t make this stuff up.
seepeesate @ 83
Dream on. These rats will never fear “their victimized public” enough to admit to what they have actually done. (Hell, a lot of them don’t even admit it all to themselves.)
Now, a Truth and Reconciliation Commission could work; the standard practice being amnesty for those who give a full accounting of their actions and who have not committed serious crimes.
From Rosen’s NYTimes Magazine piece:
Norske: Unfortunately, those who learned from teach-ins, protests, living politics or from fighting in Vietnam were marginalized, co opted, jailed or worse…
I am sure this is part of why FISA is on the carving block for them, we all have files and now we are all watched legally for our peaceful actions and nonviolent demonstration.
Norske always says pass the ammo and I refer this back to the issue of forgiving co-conspiritors like Goldsmith–After years of trying to make this a more peaceful planet, those of us who watched this movie the last time are not patient with the idea that we should be forgiving in the face of preventable war, our of control economic crises and an energy crisis which was vforeshadowed when we were teens. We are not inventing the wheel here, we are watching old movies from our childhoods. And while I am grateful that we don’t have the level of death seen in VietNam, we will face a much harder struggle with the returning disabled. Our vietNam Vets have been abused by the system, and now we have a wave much, much larger who will need expensive and lifelong help they are already not receiving. I have no patience for any of it.
Biodun @ 111
That’s darkly funny. Thanks Biodun.
Elliott @ 99
Well, I think there’s a bit of difference between being forgiven and getting away with it, but it’s an important connection to remember nonetheless.
sporkovat @ 16
Cheney’s role in the implementation of 9/11. from the minute he was assigned his oversight role by Bush in May 2001 through his actions during Vigilant Warrior on the morning of the attacks, including the ability to override FAA controls and make “ghosts” appear on the air traffic controllers’ screens, deserves more attention.
I clearly remember that morning as I watched the guys around me and my wife getting ready to go to work never knowing what they were going into and hearing on CNN that there were reports of more than 8 planes unaccounted for. A controller even asked the question “Is this real or part of the exercise?” meaning the attack on the WTC.
As for Goldsmith’s revelations, there was an early article that documented this, I can’t remember where it is, maybe Rolling Stone or the Atlantic. That article detailed the problems Goldsmith had with Addington and Yoo’s cavalier attitude towards the constitution and it specifically cited Addington as the reason Goldsmith had left government service. I thought there would be more on it from other outlets but, as with everything else that negatively depicted this administration, it disappeared from sight.
Redshift @ 110
Great idea, Redshift, I could agree to something along those lines. Independent Commission.
LS @ 109
Nope, you can’t make it up. Robert Ludlum and Tom Clancy could go into a bunker and collaborate for years and still not make up anything as freaky as the facts. You can’t make it up, but you can go back to Monday Night Football and American Idol and immunize yourself from the weirdness. Or you can go the other way (which I must admit I am susceptible to), and see conspiracy and global control in every movement. Neither is a particularly useful course of action if you really intend to accomplish change. Somewhere there is a golden mean between absolute apathy and absolute paranoia. But, I do think it is important to remember the facts — some of us might forgive, but none of us should ever forget. Because those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it and history is the best example to use one’s imagination for extrapolating what the future might hold.
I always remember the purpose of the storyteller. Remember the past, and tell the story to the future.
perris @ 98
There are some real difficulties getting U.S. citizens before the ICC. For example, there’s the Hague Invasion Act which authorizes the President to use “all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any [US or allied personnel] being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court”.
Robert Reich just said something good about getting people to learn what they can GET for their citizenship by acting to change policy (talking about tax policy). It’s true, but it’s a sad statement that now we have to essentially pay people to participate in democracy.
johnSwifty @ 117
Well said!
zennurse @ 49
And that favorite GOPer of Lanny Davis’s, Ted Olsen, is still bundling campaign cash for Rudy.
Rudy is the golden child even if the others don’t realize it yet.
burnspbesq @ 30
I respectfully disagree. Glenn romps through the muck of evidence and calls these guys out for what Goldsmith and others are about. The reason Addington and others hid behind classification is because they knew that the LEGAL reasoning was that weak.
Yoo wrote the opinions and they
KNEW the legal theory sucked.So bad that even Rethug strict construstualists would even object.
Glenn has been consistently about the ILLEGAL actions with INTENT to ruin FISA
wigwam @ 118
One of the main difficulties regarding this crew is that we are not a signatory to the Rome Statute and neither is Iraq.
james @ 123
I think it’s important that WE clean up our own mess HERE. For our sake. For our dignity. For our Republic.
Going After Gore
http://www.vanityfair.com/poli…..gore200710
I didn’t hear about this, just found it via C&L linkages. Secrecy News.com, link to brand new report from advocy group Openthegovernment.org called the Secrecy Report Card September 2007.
Haven’t read, but looks interesting:(pdf)
http://www.openthegovernment.org/otg/SRC2007.pdf
The Senate is in session.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak ordered the defense establishment Tuesday to examine the implications of temporarily cutting the Gaza Strip off from electricity, in response to the ongoing Qassam rocket fire at southern Israel.
“Tipper also says that Al has made no moves that would suggest a run for the presidency, but adds that if he turned to her one night and said he had to run, she’d get on board, and they’d discuss how to approach it this time around, given what they’ve learned.”
http://rawstory.com//news/2007….._0904.html
skippy @ 97
I agree – I’ve liked Edwards since his run with Kerry (a lot better than Kerry for sure!) and if Al Gore won’t step up, I think Edwards is the guy. Not that he’s perfect – I wish he could get on board with single-payer health care instead of more ‘insurance’ – but overall I think he gets it.
Have to go, my cat is going to knead me
to death if I don’t go get her some chow.
Blessings to all, see you later.
z
Elliott @ 124
I couldn’t agree more. I said the other day that I don’t want anyone but us to be responsible for taking care of these criminals when someone was saying what a shame it was that European governments weren’t getting more involved in OUR problems.
Per the latest Gallup Poll:
Synopsis: People who voted for Democrats last year did so because they wanted A CHANGE IN DIRECTION, not the same-old same-old.
Got that, Rahm? Got that, Dianne? Got that, Harry?
It doesn’t really matter what the report says:
Chris Bowers on Hillary’s latest –
Clinton: I Am An Insider Who Will Compromise
While any Democratic candidate is 1000 times better than any GOoPer, and I will support the Democratic Nominee no matter who they are, this is why I think Hillary will be a disaster — the original:
The Bill and Hill Show — Wide Eyed in Washington.
The Sequel:
The Hill and Bill Show, part deux — it’s OUR White House, Suckahs!
I think Hillary will be a disaster because she honestly believes that the path to success is cutting deals with K Street and DC Insiders. To that group, Progressive Reform is THE ENEMY.
The status quo benefits the wealthy and powerful, and Hill and Bill will cut deals where it matters and throw scraps to the peasants. Howard Dean will be public enemy # 1 for Team Hillary, but losing him will be the least of our problems.
Which is why I am encouraged by this MyDD post –
Edwards for President
OT – watching the icky Mary Matalin on the tv who is Very Enthused about Fredrick of Hollywood… I get the feeling that Freddy is just a throw away candidate for the repugs… they KNOW they aren’t going to win…
I could be wrong, but that’s the general impression I get.
Christy –
Is your husband a lawyer, too?
egregious @ 127
phew!
New thread upstairs
How many days of a front page story would it have been if it was someone other than the Bush and Republican crowd that was drooling for a bomb to hit the US? Or the republican congress person that was happy that God did the work of “cleaning out” New Orleans for them?
Sicko crowd.
Biodun @ 134
Since we already know where this report comes from and who’s written it, wouldn’t it be nice if we could eliminate the fiction that it is Petraeus’s Report?
Elliott @ 124
I agree. And, the War Crimes Act of 1996, a Republican bill, has just the right wording; it makes violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions into federal crimes. The Bushies tried to gut it via the Millitary Commissions Act (MCA) of 2006, but I’m not convinced that they succeeded. Also, many of their crimes occurred prior to the end of 2006.
OldCoastie @ 22
My suspicion as to what’s going on behind the scenes: There was a big push when the Foley scandal broke to purge all of the gay Republicans from Capitol Hill. I think a lot of those gay Republicans (I mean the staffers here, not so much the elected officials.) lost their jobs after the 2006 election swept many of their bosses from office, so the furor died down quite a bit. Now you’ve got the Craig scandal. Bob Novak is running around telling people that no one on the Republican side of the Senate was terribly surprised by this scandal, which seems to me to be egging on the purge-faction. I think there was–and is–a significant amount of disgust among the true believers about the number of powerful gay Republicans on Capitol Hill. The fact that Craig lost his scalp so quickly has got to make all of those gay Republicans wonder if they’re next. Those folks–and their sympathizers–want Craig to stay on and fight it out.
The beauty of this fight is that you’ve got two truly despicable groups (virulent homophobes on the one hand, hypocritical Uncle Tom’s on the other) who are thrashing it out. Pass the popcorn.
They didn’t become gangsters overnight.
“Sitting around the White House dreaming of all the great new powers they will have once the new terrorist attack occurs — as Addington was doing — is nothing short of deranged.”
===============================================
I must say I disagree with your word choice here—”deranged” should be changed to the more accurate and applicable choice in this case: “Evil”.
Those who wish for mass-deaths to invigorate them are not just crazy–They are malignantly Evil.
nikto — That was a quote — it was Glenn’s word choice, not mine. And there are a lot of words that I could use to describe what these people have been doing, deranged being a lesser one.
OldCoastie @ 22
i’m more focussed on his lawyer. whutaguy, arguing for Craig and for Vick at the same time, I believe?!
there are ambulance chasers, but…
slime-chaser? dueling-devil-chaser? nutjob?
scuse, mebbe i’m too tired like Jerry was lassnite…
AOL’s “news” headline is that Bush purports to cry a lot as reported in his new biography. In that we are the same: I cry a lot, too, every time I remember that silly bastard is still president. . .
Gnome de Plume @ 43
We need a candidate like Edwards out on the stump showing some righteous indignation, some moral fury over this stuff.
We need a real red, white and blue speech about patriotism in bright colors and with a loud brass band.
We need some humor to show the public we Dems understand and will not only fight for what is right, but will do it in style.
Isn’t it ironic that Ronald Reagan started as a Dem and learned a lot of his style and rhetoric from FDR and then used that to charm Republicans? It’s strange. Now, for some Gawd awful reason there is mention of Senator Larry Craig considering a switch to Dem. Talk about weird.
I want to see Dems showing the colors and talking proud about America and how we don’t need to be in Iraq to ‘win’ and how we don’t need to be afraid and how we can rationally face our domestic problems and solve them. I want to see that CAN DO attitude front and center, wrapped in the flag and proud.
Sounds corny, doesn’t it? Well, sometimes showing your feelings (as the bloggers here have been with regard to their young children) is just natural.
Americans may be needing some confidence boosting here in the near future and Dem candidates can do that.
Rah rah!
;-) … But…But … he’s not homosexual, he just likes having sex with men…