Christy!

0?

Christy!

let’s keep remembering

What Christy Said …….

Bai seems to be a shallow thinker. And brownnosing Russert too.

Russert on the subject of pandering, now that’s funny.

Slothrop @ 6

Russert on the subject of pandering, now that’s funny.

He was tapping his toes for Timmy.

Americans tend to be an idealist bunch to begin with… otherwise, it just wouldn’t be America… what is the matter with Bai?

Russert? Well, we know what’s a matter with him…

“Balance”. That is a word I have heard for a long time. The word can mean different things to different people. That is perhaps, The problem.

You are on a roll today Christy.

Thanks!

Open yer eyes and see what is as plain as the nose on yer face pundit people,
clutching yer pearls isn’t helping.
They can’t see it’s about accountability and fairness?About winning, yes, but with candidates who actually represent the people that elect them and not the overlords of the corporate world for a change.

What a depressing individual.

AZ Matt @ 7

Slothrop @ 6

Russert on the subject of pandering, now that’s funny.

He was tapping his toes for Timmy.

“Yessuh, Master Cheney, whatever you say, my Master, please let me be near you and speak with you, Master Cheney, you know how it thrills me…”
– Li’l Timmah McPumpkin

Christy:

As a twenty-five year veteran of public administration, ten-year advocate for state and federal funding for the arts and education, a consultant to government, and administrator for public commissions and boards, I have only two words for Matt Bai and Tim Russert, which can best be communicated using one of the five digits of my right hand.

Re: Matt Bai:

I finally finished reading Argument. He dismisses progressive netroots for its intellectual bankrupcy, using Markos as an example, castigating him for not reading Friedrich Hayek even as Markos plans to write a book about libertarianism. He also focuses on dKos for the ranting and anger in the progressive blogosphere.

He limits his discussion of FDL to a controversy. Either he doesn’t read FDL regularly, or if he does, he’s in denial.

Dancing on the razor’s edge….progressive blogging can make real change. But it never ends, there is no final win. You fight for a lifetime, then others step in when you fall. Imagine how far into Iran we’d be now if other voices hadn’t spoken up, providing pressure.
Don’t expect big media to “get it”. A guy like Matt Bai is only sawing on the tree limb he stands on when he says the bloggers are the new Democracy – who needs pundits when the voices of millions are shaping the debate?

My position is simple.

I stand with Howard Dean

Matt Bai is close, but no cigar.

He is right that we are pragmatists, but he misses the key point:

We are Principled Pragmatists — we fight for what we believe in, but whe do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Which is why we have such disdain for the Naderistas.

We also understand that more often than not, even a bad Democrat (HoJoe excepted) is a 1000 times better than a Good Republican.

Of course, if the GOP wants to trade Chuck Hagel for HoJoe, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat. Better to have an occasional principled Conservative than a backstabbing Quisling.

As for Timmeh?

I really have nothing more to say about the man. I stopped taking him seriously a long time ago.

Who is Matt Bai?

And what the f*ck is Bai talking about when he says big ideas are wholly missing from the left blogosphere?

Christy -

If you hadn’t said he was talking about Dems/progressives, I woulda sworn baa-baa was describing the thug party.

And……..how the h*ll did he get an invite to moderate in Chicago with this kind of attitude?

I’m with Fe @ 9:14.

I am definately a realist. That is I realize the playing field is very not-level. And yes, I cop to being an idealist.

Christy, the more I read your stuff, the more I like it. Good take!

Biodun @ 21

And what the f*ck is Bai talking about when he says big ideas are wholly missing from the left blogosphere?

Maybe he means new ideas. You know, the Constitution is old and quaint.

Bai is also a self-annointed netroots “ambassador” to MSM, having been hired as a freelance writer to cover elections ‘04 and ‘06 for the New York Times Magazine.

Biodun @ 15

Re: Matt Bai:

I finally finished reading Argument. He dismisses progressive netroots for its intellectual bankrupcy, using Markos as an example, castigating him for not reading Friedrich Hayek even as Markos plans to write a book about libertarianism. He also focuses on dKos for the ranting and anger in the progressive blogosphere.

He limits his discussion of FDL to a controversy. Either he doesn’t read FDL regularly, or if he does, he’s in denial.

Bai undercuts his own, possibly very illuminating, argument when he dismisses the blogosphere as “angry” and “intellectually bankrupt.” Once you accept the Right’s villification of the netroots as your conclusion, why even explore further the evolution of ‘roots activism and where it could be heading?

Classic projection, classic conservative move.

This feels really too simplistic – it’s as if ol’ Matt is saying that we really couldn’t care less WHO gets the nomination as long as they can beat the GOP’s candidate. That presupposes that we don’t care about their position on really “big idea” stuff like healthcare, the Constitution, Wireless Wiretapping, Iraq, crimes against humanity…

Bai’s statement is idiotic. To the extent those of us seething with anger at democrats for there spineless servile actions the past 25 years are staying mum, this is a transient condition that recognizes that it is a multi-step process getting rid of the vermin that inhabit US political and news media life.

The first and most important step is putting the cult of republicanism back in Pandora’s box where its sinister destructive effects can be better managed. If that takes temporarily putting up with some “Blue Dogs” then so be it, but Bai and others should not be fooled that a day of reckoning within the democratic party isn’t looming where the Reid’s, Pelosi’s, Hoyer’s Durbin’s, Levin’s and other Vichy democrats are not going to be flushed.
.

Speaking of the press being full of sh*t, Al Gore is now discussing the press coverage of his 2000 campaign: http://www.vanityfair.com/poli…..gore200710

is the “left blogosphere” a monolithic entity?

Would President HRC be preferable to another Republican in the WH? Yes. Is Senator Clinton the best the Democrats have to offer? Hardly.

JF @ 25

Biodun @ 21

And what the f*ck is Bai talking about when he says big ideas are wholly missing from the left blogosphere?

Maybe he means new ideas. You know, the Constitution is old and quaint.

Actually he means both: new and big ideas. But my own impression from reading his book is that he wouldn’t know a big idea if he fell over one. He has the intellectual sense of a rock.

I had the interesting experience of sitting next to a Democratic campaign consultant on an Oakland to Dulles JetBlue flight two years ago, shortly after a Matt Bai piece on Howard Dean came out in the Times Magazine. The consultant thought Bai was one of the Democrat’s biggest enemies. Period.

He had some other choice words, but basically, he said Bai is a hatchet man.

pluege @ 30

Bai’s statement is idiotic. To the extent those of us seething with anger at democrats for there spineless servile actions the past 25 years are staying mum, this is a transient condition that recognizes that it is a multi-step process getting rid of the vermin that inhabit US political and news media life.

The first and most important step is putting the cult of republicanism back in Pandora’s box where its sinister destructive effects can be better managed. If that takes temporarily putting up with some “Blue Dogs” then so be it, but Bai and others should not be fooled that a day of reckoning within the democratic party isn’t looming where the Reid’s, Pelosi’s, Hoyer’s Durbin’s, Levin’s and other Vichy democrats are not going to be flushed.
.

Exactly. The first step to getting out of the hole you’ve gotten yourself into is to stop digging. Electing Democrats means stopping the digging. Then we work on getting out of the hole that years of Republican government has gotten us into.

The MSM have now describe us as radical left-wing extremists, incapable of compromising our extreme views — and totally pragmatic opportunists who only want ill-defined “blue team” to win, no matter what.

I’m having such an identity crises today. Someone hold my hand. No, the other hand.

I liked it better when I could just do my needlepoint in private.

EPUed:

OldCoastie @ 22

anyone else get the feeling that Larry Craig is starting his campaign to stay in the Senate?
———–
My suspicion as to what’s going on behind the scenes: There was a big push when the Foley scandal broke to purge all of the gay Republicans from Capitol Hill. I think a lot of those gay Republicans (I mean the staffers here, not so much the elected officials.) lost their jobs after the 2006 election swept many of their bosses from office, so the furor died down quite a bit. Now you’ve got the Craig scandal. Bob Novak is running around telling people that no one on the Republican side of the Senate was terribly surprised by this scandal, which seems to me to be egging on the purge-faction. I think there was–and is–a significant amount of disgust among the true believers about the number of powerful gay Republicans on Capitol Hill. The fact that Craig lost his scalp so quickly has got to make all of those gay Republicans wonder if they’re next. Those folks–and their sympathizers–want Craig to stay on and fight it out.

The beauty of this fight is that you’ve got two truly despicable groups (virulent homophobes on the one hand, hypocritical Uncle Tom’s on the other) who are thrashing it out. Pass the popcorn.

Instead of trying to cling to your jobs, how about you just start doing them?

Oh yeah, that’s gonna happen any day now.

These guys get me off. Who the hell are they to define people like myself and the rest of us, who’ve been around the block longer than they’ve been alive, much less kicking? What they have that we don’t have is lots of money, and that’s about the start and finish of it. Lots-of-money has a vision of the world that is not my vision. Most of us made a conscious decision back in the day not to make lots-of-money because we thought doing good in some small way was what makes a life worth living.

They can diss and dismiss all they want. Most of us have more to our cv than a talking empty head in a frame. It pisses me off that anyone should take these bozo’s seriously.

End of rant. Back to writing up course for students.

Biodun @ 21

And what the f*ck is Bai talking about when he says big ideas are wholly missing from the left blogosphere?

Big ideas = Big money. They are synonymous in the world of the main stream media. It would be impossible for Matty to conceive of an idea that wasn’t backed by money and visa versa. You can feel sorry for him, but he’ll never get it. He is more useful as an example of someone who believes his own reality. I like the analogy of sawing on the limb upon which he is standing. That a journalist would call into question anyone else’s motives for broadcasting the written word is one thing; to be guilty of the fault he is attributing to the blogosphere is quite another. All that matters to Matty and the MSM at large is wining. And, in their world, wining means someone keeps publishing their crap, regardless of what the combinations of words actually mean.

Christy is bringing this issue up at an important time. Matt Bai seems to be pandering more than a little bit in his successful effort to get Russert and his kind to sni**er at our efforts. But, when it comes to our effect on the presidential contest, there’s more than a little bit of truth to what he said.

I’ve pointed out earlier here that our effects in 2008 will be most powerful and cost efficient in U.S. House races. I still believe that is where our main efforts should go. But one thing I’m beginning to see is that if Sen. Clinton continues to surge ahead of her rivals, our efforts and influence can delay her “race to the middle” and keep the discussion of real progressive issues on the presidential race table longer.

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~

let Bai be Bai-gone

oddmommy @ 32

is the “left blogosphere” a monolithic entity?

You’d think so, wouldn’t you? Anytime one of these twits starts talking about the “left blogosphere”, somebody needs to ask, “Um, have you read the damn blog?”

punaise @ 42

let Bai be Bai-gone

groan… .

Biodun @ 15

Re: Matt Bai:

I finally finished reading Argument. He dismisses progressive netroots for its intellectual bankrupcy, using Markos as an example, castigating him for not reading Friedrich Hayek even as Markos plans to write a book about libertarianism. He also focuses on dKos for the ranting and anger in the progressive blogosphere.

He limits his discussion of FDL to a controversy. Either he doesn’t read FDL regularly, or if he does, he’s in denial.

I doubt Matt Bai or Russert read blogs. They are both too full of themselves to get off their perch.

Amen, Christy.

Shorter Matt Bai: “Pretending to be Friends is what we do best. Now who wants another sucker?”

Who is Matt Bai, and why should anyone care?

… I understand and accept that it is my job, as a citizen, to hold the elected officials to account for their actions. All of them — this is an American responsibility, red and blue team malarky be damned.

thank you christy, i can’t tell you how inspiring that is.

i confess i was starting to freak out a bit this year over congress’s multiple failures – irresponsible iran actions, funding the iraq “surge”, the secret trade deal with bush and then watching the fisa debacle put me on outrage overload… but you have really stepped it up (along with glenn, jane and some others). i love your “they work for us” posts.

when the blogs are shining that light of accountability on our side as well as the Rs, i have hope.

thank you, thank you, thank you.

Reminder: GAO report assessment on CSPAN 3 @ 2PM ET

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

Knut Wicksell @ 40

These guys get me off. Who the hell are they to define people like myself and the rest of us, who’ve been around the block longer than they’ve been alive, much less kicking? What they have that we don’t have is lots of money, and that’s about the start and finish of it. Lots-of-money has a vision of the world that is not my vision. Most of us made a conscious decision back in the day not to make lots-of-money because we thought doing good in some small way was what makes a life worth living.

They can diss and dismiss all they want. Most of us have more to our cv than a talking empty head in a frame. It pisses me off that anyone should take these bozo’s seriously.

End of rant. Back to writing up course for students.

Considering all the face time he gets on TV, Tweety’s ratings are horrid. It’s sad that the only show he can beat on weekdays is Tucker. It doesn’t say much for TV or Tweety.

Amen Christy! F*k Bai.

Bloggers and blog readers are an increasingly large group of people, who don’t all think, vote, or behave in the same way, even when they share the same general philosophical perspective. The MSM loves to make sweeping generalizations, however doing so is no more fair or accurate in this case than it would be if they were judging people solely by race or gender.

The whole thing sounds an awful lot like projection, somehow.

LS @ 50

Reminder: GAO report assessment on CSPAN 3 @ 2PM ET

And the sound of MSM reporting on same?

*crickets*

Biodun @ 51

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

B0t0x?

Biodun @ 51

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

Well, if you can’t point to “Atlas Shrugged” and claim that as your goal, then you just must not have a purpose, damnit.

Biodun @ 51

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

As Charlie Daniels said, “because the devil was looking for a few souls to steal”. And Bai made the Faustian bargain.

earlier version of this still stuck in moderation:

Christy is bringing this issue up at an important time. Matt Bai seems to be pandering more than a little bit in his successful effort to get Russert and his kind to chuckle at our efforts. But, when it comes to our effect on the presidential contest, there’s more than a little bit of truth to what he said.

I’ve pointed out earlier here that our effects in 2008 will be most powerful and cost efficient in U.S. House races. I still believe that is where our main efforts should go. But one thing I’m beginning to see is that if Sen. Clinton continues to surge ahead of her rivals, our efforts and influence can delay her “race to the middle” and keep the discussion of real progressive issues on the presidential race table longer.

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

OT but of interest: LINK

In Chertoff’s record, shades of politics

By David G. Savage and Tom Hamburger, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
September 4, 2007

WASHINGTON — Shortly after President Bush took office in 2001, Michael Chertoff, then head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, met with the conservative group Judicial Watch. It wanted criminal charges brought against Hillary Rodham Clinton in connection with a lavish fundraising event in Los Angeles the year before.

“Chertoff personally assured us he would pursue it,” the group’s president, Tom Fitton, said recently, recalling the meeting with several top Justice officials. “They said they weren’t afraid of taking on the Clintons.”

Justice did not pursue a case against the senator from New York, but instead went after one of her fundraisers, David Rosen, who eventually was acquitted.

Now Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales has announced his resignation, brought down in part by allegations that he let politics influence Justice Department decisions. And Chertoff, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, is a prominent candidate to succeed him.

…

I don’t think Hillary is going to forgive or forget.

If the blogs of the left didn’t care about ideas, why would they care so much about winning elections?

scarecrow @ 48

Who is Matt Bai, and why should anyone care?

See my 26 above. As you well know, the Kool-Aid drinkers who follow MSM don’t know any better. So they’ll take him at his word and they’ll continue to live in benighted darkness (to force a tautology).

When Bai says such a huge, blatant lie as “liberal bloggers have no vision of government,” he knows it’s a lie, but he still says it because he knows it’s what Timmy and the other kewl kidz wants to hear, it’s the inside-the-beltway CW, and it will keep him on the invitation lists for Georgetown cocktail parties.

Oh My, Christy.

Just got back from errands & dropped by the Lake, to this?!

Bai’s an absolute idgit altogether! And paired with Timmeh? Nice graphic there. *snerk*

Good catch! Now, can we throw em out with the trash? Yuck!

OT: McClatchy has this awful “fear the aliens, they are filling our jails” piece up now. How disappointing. Let them hear from us.

scarecrow @ 37

The MSM have now describe us as radical left-wing extremists, incapable of compromising our extreme views — and totally pragmatic opportunists who only want ill-defined “blue team” to win, no matter what.

I’m having such an identity crises today. Someone hold my hand. No, the other hand.

I liked it better when I could just do my needlepoint in private.

LOL, that’s great.

i think the trouble they’re having is in trying to paint everyone with the same brush – as though every blogger and reader is part of some monolith. that’s just a big mistake.

i can see why bai might think blogs are totally about pragmatism if he spends all his time talking with markos. but, he’d get a very different picture from talking with glenn… and something completely different from arthur silber.

that’s the thing he misses. blogs aren’t about idealism or pragmatism or any one thing. blogs are a tool for democracy: for a national conversation about our country – where we’re at, where we want to go, how to get there. and there are going to be as many views as they’re are participants.

Bai is clearly a mindless prat jousting with strawmen.

The question I have is : Don’t these people vote?

They’re on the ‘inside’, allegedly with their fingers on the pulse of what’s really happening, but rather than talk about issues and bring the Truth to bear, they’d rather talk about bloggers? What, do they just vote for whichever party’s in the majority in a given election year?

I understand the ‘uninvolved’ stance they’re supposed to take as ‘journalists’, but geez… It’s like they don’t understand the Government’s actions have real consequences.

I remember coverage of Matt Bai I read here during the first yearlykos. He came across then as someone who was suffering from “young punk” syndrome. He was very full of himself and not really keyed into what the blogosphere was all about. So I was very surprised when I heard that he had been chosen to moderate a debate at the second yearlykos. I wondered at the time what are they thinking. But then I thought well this is yearlykos and kos is much more of a traditional Democrat.

Matt Bai is just another one of those journalists (and I use the term loosely) who are dismissive of blogs but who pretend to understand them. From those of us in the blogosphere his perspective is at once irritating and laughable. I think the original mistake was that the people at the dailykos chose to give him any blog credibility. He really has none.

Ed*ard Teller @ 60

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

today…and here’s this week’s list of congressional hearings.

Biodun @ 51

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

Well, that is comparison to Bush and Cheney who have a very clear vision of government as a Presidential dictatorship. Support for the Constitution is so vague and general, don’t you know?

Congress is in session now.

Ed*ard Teller @ 60

earlier version of this still stuck in moderation:

Christy is bringing this issue up at an important time. Matt Bai seems to be pandering more than a little bit in his successful effort to get Russert and his kind to chuckle at our efforts. But, when it comes to our effect on the presidential contest, there’s more than a little bit of truth to what he said.

I’ve pointed out earlier here that our effects in 2008 will be most powerful and cost efficient in U.S. House races. I still believe that is where our main efforts should go. But one thing I’m beginning to see is that if Sen. Clinton continues to surge ahead of her rivals, our efforts and influence can delay her “race to the middle” and keep the discussion of real progressive issues on the presidential race table longer.

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

I agree. That’s where the lefty blogs should be directing the effort.

Biodun @ 74

Congress is in session now.

woooohoooooo. Let’s see what they took in during their breaks.

your last line was priceless. most of us wouldnt be compelled to be so active and online and blogging and posting so often if the MSM would just do their damn jobs.

selise @ 72

Ed*ard Teller @ 60

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

today…and here’s this week’s list of congressional hearings.

{{{selise!}}}

What a great link! thank you.

Why, Matt Bai might ask himself, would so many accomplished, busy, intelligent people focus on the tactical goals of winning elections?

Could it be because they recognize that winning elections is how our country is governed?

Maybe because they have a vision of government that precludes the Unitary Executive? Because they have a vision of government that precludes preventive wars? Because they have a vision of government that responds with good policy in the face of systemic health care failure?

Or is because they “just want to win something”? Sure. Must be that.

Pundits and conservative journalists have tried to marginalize progressive Americans for decades. This is nothing new. By ignoring the inherent ACTIVISM of participating in a national and international debate about important issues of the day, marshalling together, and then implementing change by petitioning, making contibutions, and pointing out contadictions and hypocrisy, Bai is attempting to undermine the First Amendment and create something quite different than Americans, all ‘created equal’, might envision when they think of the promise of America.

And gee whiz, the corporate media gives him TV time…go figure.

What Bai fails to realize is that, by the time the political discussion is distilled to the lesser of two evils (the general election), we will, of course, pick the lesser of two evils. That doesn’t mean we have shifted our ideals, it means we are not freaking stupid.

AZ Matt @ 5

Bai seems to be a shallow thinker. And brownnosing Russert too.

Remember all the complaints about Bai moderating in Chicago?

Just sayin’ . . .

johnSwifty @ 41

Biodun @ 21

And what the f*ck is Bai talking about when he says big ideas are wholly missing from the left blogosphere?

Big ideas = Big money. They are synonymous in the world of the main stream media. It would be impossible for Matty to conceive of an idea that wasn’t backed by money and visa versa. You can feel sorry for him, but he’ll never get it. He is more useful as an example of someone who believes his own reality. I like the analogy of sawing on the limb upon which he is standing. That a journalist would call into question anyone else’s motives for broadcasting the written word is one thing; to be guilty of the fault he is attributing to the blogosphere is quite another. All that matters to Matty and the MSM at large is wining. And, in their world, wining means someone keeps publishing their crap, regardless of what the combinations of words actually mean.

So, essentially, you’re saying that to Matty, Jesus Christ had no potential for success, since his ideas were not based on the pursuit of money, and were therefore not “big” ideas. Perhaps someone should point that out to him.

Well of course this is completely preposterous, it’s on the corporate media isn’t it.

I don’t give a damn about party loyalty, I care about the issues.

If there was a Republican candidate (here me out) who believed in curbing corporate power, setting up a single-payer health care system, promoting peace over war, restoring the primacy of the Constitution, and serving We The People rather than the oligarchy, I would support him/her in a heartbeat.

Sadly it’s hard enough to come up with a candidate like that in the Democratic Party, and impossible from the Republican Party (as it currently exists).

So in order to get closer to those goals, I may settle for a less-than-perfect candidate because it would be better than a Republican who would continue our descent into tyranny at a much faster pace.

Unlike one poster here, I have no disdain for the “Naderistas” I share most of their values, but I’m a little more willing to compromise.

Has anyone protested to MSNBC about this yet? One of the ways the right began to be so successful in controlling the message was by getting hordes of the faithful to raise holy hell every time there was a story in the media they didn’t like.

wigwam @ 31

Speaking of the press being full of sh*t, Al Gore is now discussing the press coverage of his 2000 campaign: http://www.vanityfair.com/poli…..gore200710

Unfortunately some journalists think this type of reporting in their job.

Infuriating, as usual.

I guess it just bugs me when the so-called pundits deign to talk about “us,” as if they had a freaking clue.

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Professor Foland @ 79

Why, Matt Bai might ask himself, would so many accomplished, busy, intelligent people focus on the tactical goals of winning elections?

Could it be because they recognize that winning elections is how our country is governed?

Maybe because they have a vision of government that precludes the Unitary Executive? Because they have a vision of government that precludes preventive wars? Because they have a vision of government that responds with good policy in the face of systemic health care failure?

Or is because they “just want to win something”? Sure. Must be that.

And let us not forget SCOTUS.

JPL @ 85

wigwam @ 31

Speaking of the press being full of sh*t, Al Gore is now discussing the press coverage of his 2000 campaign: http://www.vanityfair.com/poli…..gore200710

Unfortunately some journalists think this type of reporting in their job.

If they don’t do that type of reporting, how will they ever get jobs with News Corp?

Solai @ 87

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Maybe he would prefer publicly financed elections so that will eliminate the power of us blackmailers…

…I mean that would seem to be the logical extension of his argument. Ooops, there I go using “logic” again.

Re: Bai and the lack of “big” ideas:

Sounds like he’s read Francis Fukuyama, which I doubt. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Fukuyama wrote an article and book of the same title (The End of History) that argued (relying mostly on Hegel) that history has now ended, that “liberal democracy” (whatever he meant by that) was now the final state form because by defeating communism, the West had won in the realm of ideas. History had ended because there were no more new ideas to debate about, and that we (in the West) will now live out our lives as bored consumers. He said all this even when at the time the world was replete history. Of course Fukuyama has since retreated from those assertions.

Now this isn’t what Bai is saying is it? That because there are now new and big ideas, this is the end of History? *g*

By the way, I also wanted to say Amen to Christy. Really appreciate this post.

Also, I have a question: whatever has happened to Evil Parallel Universe? Haven’t seen him/her around here in quite a while.

BAI: … This is a very tactical movement. This is a movement based almost entirely around winning or losing … This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

And so, uh, I think these folks want to win and whatever they need to do to help a nominee win, they are going to do.

Sure sounds like Republicans to me. I mean, projecting much? What is it with people who, falsely even, accuse others of having the very flaws they themselves are exhibiting?

A lot of us are dedicated to precisely the vision of government held by the Founders of our country, which they termed republicanism. A vision in which, among other things, authority is not concentrated in a single omnipotent executive (otherwise known as a despot), but dispersed among a variety of branches and institutions of government, so that each one can be constrained by the others to stay within reasonable bounds. That vision also includes fundamental constraints on the power of government to take actions against citizens, by recognizing that citizens have rights that government cannot legitimately take away.

It is precisely this republican “vision of government” that the modern Republican party (despite the misnomer of its name) so opposes, and is so dedicated to subverting.

Not surprisingly, those of who want to preserve for ourselves and our posterity the institutions of republican government created by the Founders don’t take kindly to the Republican’s anti-American agenda.

Hence, the anger.

Ed*ard Teller @ 77

selise @ 72

today…and here’s this week’s list of congressional hearings.

{{{selise!}}}

What a great link! thank you.

ET – ack! i started making the list for firepups around april or may (since we like watching the hearings so much)…. so sorry you didn’t know about it – probably ‘cuz i post the info in the comments on the first morning thread of the week. my apologies.

The one aspect of this is that, as Christy pointed out, Bai was speaking on MSNBC. And as I have many, mnay times, cable news is not news. It is infotainment masquerading as news.

If I turn to a cable news channel, it takes me on average from the time someone opens their mouth about 5 seconds to register the first misstatement, distortion, spin, WH talking point, or lie.

Cable news is not news. It should never be taken seriously. Yes, they may one or two real newspeople but that’s just to give them cover. They are not news.

selise @ 72

Ed*ard Teller @ 60

BTW, when does the U.S. Congress re-convene?

today…and here’s this week’s list of congressional hearings.

And am I missing it or is there nothing on the agenda this week to deal with the many contempt of Congress issues floating around. Have they all gone away?

Ann in AZ @ 83

So, essentially, you’re saying that to Matty, Jesus Christ had no potential for success, since his ideas were not based on the pursuit of money, and were therefore not “big” ideas. Perhaps someone should point that out to him.

Well, you have to admit that in the story of Jesus, the person of Jesus didn’t have a very successful ending. And, I’d hate to argue that there hasn’t been monetary value attributable to the ideas of the Christ story; the Vatican has been making a killing in that venue since Constantine.

But smartassedness aside, you are entirely correct in pointing out that there isn’t any big money in loving one’s neighbor as one’s self; but it isn’t a really big idea either, just a really good one.

Solai @ 87

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Law’s a mercy! That’s a strong stomach you got there. ;-)

I trust that can all shuffle over to the MSNBC site and share our thoughts with them?

The problem with MSNBC is that they’re tied to Newsweek [which will then regurgitate their crap] and the WaPo [ditto]. So this gets broadcast far and wide.

realworld at 96 — There will be some info on te contempt of Congress issue in the House soon. Am awaiting a call back on it…but we’re certainly keeping an eye on that issue.

Solai @ 87

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Wow! Punishing someone by refusing to give them money is blackmail? Then let’s continue our campaign to get advertisers to blackmail Fox! *g*

The answer to people like Matt Bai, whose ego interferes with his ability to perceive reality, is to have clearer-minded people on the air instead. This seems like an obvious take to me. Politicians may be persuaded because they must stand for re-election; journalists answer to their employers only and are mostly impervious to public pressure. There must arise a class of progressive journalists, and I sense that is starting to happen. These things are cyclical, and our time is beginning. Again.

Waccamaw @ 97

Solai @ 87

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Law’s a mercy! That’s a strong stomach you got there. ;-)

what is he so afraid of being blackmailed about? Something even yuckier than his loofah fetish….?

bleah.

Does anyone know if Rumsfeld will be sent to Germany to stand trial?

Just today, Christy has done more outstanding journalism than Tai has done in his total career. Russert is being controlled by Cheney and Tai is a stinky sock puppet. Well, he calls people names, but it is OK if you are a corporate journalist.

Waccamaw @ 22

Christy -

If you hadn’t said he was talking about Dems/progressives, I woulda sworn baa-baa was describing the thug party.

And……..how the h*ll did he get an invite to moderate in Chicago with this kind of attitude?

I’m with Fe @ 9:14.

Yeah, one of my strongest statements in the convention feedback was that we didn’t need a journalist “moderating” our debate and taking up half the question time for himself.

realworld @ 95

And am I missing it or is there nothing on the agenda this week to deal with the many contempt of Congress issues floating around. Have they all gone away?

not yet. but one could be added.

i go through all the committee’s websites, and compile the list from their hearings schedules at the begining of the week. so the list is current as of about 7am this morning.

if additional hearings get added during the week, i may miss them… so if anyone sees a hearing not on my list, please leave me a note in the comments and i will update the list so everyone can easily find it. thanks all!

oddmommy @ 102

Waccamaw @ 97

Law’s a mercy! That’s a strong stomach you got there. ;-)

what is he so afraid of being blackmailed about? Something even yuckier than his loofah fetish….?

bleah.

BillO isn’t afraid of being blackmailed. He’s afraid of being ignored. Worst thing that could happen to the ego is for him to be totally ignored as the irrelevant POS he is.

Redshift @ 100

Solai @ 87

I watched O’Reilly last night. He changed his description of us. Must be the ‘leftwingNazihatesites’ wasn’t working out. Now we’re ‘blackmailers’. If the candidates don’t do what we say, we won’t donate to their campaigns. “Blackmailers”, O’Reilly declared. And, he doesn’t like blackmailers.

Honest. That’s what he said.

Wow! Punishing someone by refusing to give them money is blackmail? Then let’s continue our campaign to get advertisers to blackmail Fox! *g*

I’m definitely in!

Makes me wonder what the queen of snark thinks about this.

Jane?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 33

Would President HRC be preferable to another Republican in the WH? Yes. Is Senator Clinton the best the Democrats have to offer? Hardly.

The best we have won’t run(One we know won’t. The other … there is still time for that).

Biodun @ 90

Re: Bai and the lack of “big” ideas:

Sounds like he’s read Francis Fukuyama, which I doubt. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Fukuyama wrote an article and book of the same title (The End of History) that argued (relying mostly on Hegel) that history has now ended, that “liberal democracy” (whatever he meant by that) was now the final state form because by defeating communism, the West had won in the realm of ideas. History had ended because there were no more new ideas to debate about, and that we (in the West) will now live out our lives as bored consumers. He said all this even when at the time the world was replete history. Of course Fukuyama has since retreated from those assertions.

Now this isn’t what Bai is saying is it? That because there are now new and big ideas, this is the end of History? *g*

When I studied philosophy, I came up with the maxim early on: Never trust anything based on Hegel. His views dovetail nicely with those of authoritarians on both the left and the right. When someone invokes Hegel around me, the red flags go up and the alarm bells go off.

I guess we don’t have a choice. We have to point out the background of and panderer before permitting any of the to use the blogs to increase the scope of their pandering.
I gather that bai has a book that he is touting? Well, there is a panderer. His nose was all the way up russerts’ ass.And I don’t give a shit that his fides include the nyt.
He is a panderer.
And how did he get to be positioned as he was at the Kos Chi show? Selectivity Please!!!!!

Hugh @ 112

When I studied philosophy, I came up with the maxim early on: Never trust anything based on Hegel. His views dovetail nicely with those of authoritarians on both the left and the right. When someone invokes Hegel around me, the red flags go up and the alarm bells go off.

Jeez Hugh, of course you’d have problems with Hegel; you are the veritable personification of Schopenhauer’s pessimism ;-)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 100

realworld at 96 — There will be some info on te contempt of Congress issue in the House soon. Am awaiting a call back on it…but we’re certainly keeping an eye on that issue.

So many issues, so much GOP corruption, illegality and malfeasance – so little time.

I’m trying to figure out if Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones’s House Ethics Committee is going to be looking into Rep. Don Young’s totally illegal and weird post-legislative insersion of the Florida Coconut Road interchange earmark. If I write to the head staffer at that committee, should I get an answer, or is their upcoming agenda supposed to be super-secret stuff?

johnSwifty @ 114

Hugh @ 112

When I studied philosophy, I came up with the maxim early on: Never trust anything based on Hegel. His views dovetail nicely with those of authoritarians on both the left and the right. When someone invokes Hegel around me, the red flags go up and the alarm bells go off.

Jeez Hugh, of course you’d have problems with Hegel; you are the veritable personification of Schopenhauer’s pessimism ;-)

I don’t know, I think Chuck Hegel is pretty cool!

nomolos @ 88

Professor Foland @ 79

Why, Matt Bai might ask himself, would so many accomplished, busy, intelligent people focus on the tactical goals of winning elections?

Could it be because they recognize that winning elections is how our country is governed?

Maybe because they have a vision of government that precludes the Unitary Executive? Because they have a vision of government that precludes preventive wars? Because they have a vision of government that responds with good policy in the face of systemic health care failure?

Or is because they “just want to win something”? Sure. Must be that.

And let us not forget SCOTUS.

speaking of the supreme court, I gleamed this from think progress;;

Souter nearly resigned after Bush v. Gore decision. According to a new book on the Supreme Court by Jeffrey Toobin, Justice David Souter nearly resigned in the wake of Bush v. Gore because he was so distraught over the decision that effectively ended the Florida recount and installed Bush as president:

Toobin writes that while the other justices tried to put the case behind them, “David Souter alone was shattered,” at times weeping when he thought of the case. “For many months, it was not at all clear whether he would remain as a justice,” Toobin continues. “That the Court met in a city he loathed made the decision even harder. At the urging of a handful of close friends, he decided to stay on, but his attitude toward the Court was never the same.”

Aahh, Matty. We could call him Batty Matty. I think he’s looking for more recognition.

He may be doing us a favor. While he and Tim R are discussing blogs, it may draw more people
to find out what we are all about. Those who are ignorant about MSM in letting them down
and misleading them might be led to the Truth!

How will the MSM handle that? They know they’re already somewhat exposed. Good on us.

Redshift @ 106

Waccamaw @ 22

Christy -

If you hadn’t said he was talking about Dems/progressives, I woulda sworn baa-baa was describing the thug party.

And……..how the h*ll did he get an invite to moderate in Chicago with this kind of attitude?

I’m with Fe @ 9:14.

Yeah, one of my strongest statements in the convention feedback was that we didn’t need a journalist “moderating” our debate and taking up half the question time for himself.

Thanks, Redshift. I really did want an answer to that question. Do you have any idea who was responsible for the decision to give him that platform?

Instead of trying to cling to your jobs, how about you just start doing them?

To once again quote the immortal Upton Sinclair:

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Bai and Russert aren’t paid those big bucks by their GOP/Corporate backers (such as Jack Welch’s GE, owner of NBC) to tell us the truth in its proper and full context. Quite the contrary.

Draper on MSNBC claims Kommander Guy deferred to Rumsfeld, Bremer and military commanders on the ground. He implies they made the decisions in Iraq. Lots of other evidence says otherwise. Again, who is the “Decider”?

Fresh thread up and running for everyone…

New thread!

Matt Bai’s an author trying to sell books. I would be surprised if he didn’t vote Democratic.

That said, the fact remains liberal blogs were successful in the 2006 election but not afterwards. The Democrats everyone worked so hard to elect disappointed-just about every one of them.

For 2008 it seems the same tactics and goals are being brought out yet again. I’m not sure how to avoid a repeat of 2006-there should be a larger senate majority, large enough to tell Lieberman to go f**k himself, but I’m not sure even that will happen. Perhaps we can get candidates to sign agreements they will not support Lieberman for anything. Maybe other demands can be made. We should at least talk about what we might do to avoid a replay of the aftermath of 2006.

johnSwifty @ 114

Hugh @ 112

When I studied philosophy, I came up with the maxim early on: Never trust anything based on Hegel. His views dovetail nicely with those of authoritarians on both the left and the right. When someone invokes Hegel around me, the red flags go up and the alarm bells go off.

Jeez Hugh, of course you’d have problems with Hegel; you are the veritable personification of Schopenhauer’s pessimism ;-)

I would not describe myself as a pessimist. It is important to me to understand how the world operates not how I wish it did. In philosophy, I was more of a follower of Hume. But Schopenhauer and I do share one thing, a dislike for Hegel.

Ed at 124 — Not so. There were some successes – here are two, just for starters. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to sit here and list out the rest. You want immediate victory on all issues every time? It’s not going to happen and unrealistic. But little victories start to add up — and we’re working toward even more of them in the next cycle.

Frank33 @ 121

Draper on MSNBC claims Kommander Guy deferred to Rumsfeld, Bremer and military commanders on the ground. He implies they made the decisions in Iraq. Lots of other evidence says otherwise. Again, who is the “Decider”?

imo Draper lost all credibility when he said it was John Roberts’ idea to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court (Roberts denied it.) Roberts is a lot of things, but stupid is not among them. I think that actually WAS one decideration that King Idiot came up with all by his lonesome.

Hugh @ 125

I would not describe myself as a pessimist. It is important to me to understand how the world operates not how I wish it did. In philosophy, I was more of a follower of Hume. But Schopenhauer and I do share one thing, a dislike for Hegel.

I was teasing you, of course, but you knew that. I think Schopenhauer would have described his idea of pessimism as the belief that reason must, necessarily, take a back seat to the human concept survival. Whatever it takes to survive, a human would do, rather than suffer death for a reasoned principle. That is a rather pessimistic view (and it might not be accurate, my philosophy is a little rusty), but it might be an accurate description of what tools like Matt Bai allow for their professional conduct, in order to survive.

johnSwifty @ 128

Hugh @ 125

I would not describe myself as a pessimist. It is important to me to understand how the world operates not how I wish it did. In philosophy, I was more of a follower of Hume. But Schopenhauer and I do share one thing, a dislike for Hegel.

I was teasing you, of course, but you knew that. I think Schopenhauer would have described his idea of pessimism as the belief that reason must, necessarily, take a back seat to the human concept survival. Whatever it takes to survive, a human would do, rather than suffer death for a reasoned principle. That is a rather pessimistic view (and it might not be accurate, my philosophy is a little rusty), but it might be an accurate description of what tools like Matt Bai allow for their professional conduct, in order to survive.

I know. I was trying to lay out my philosophical antecedents. I am more English school than Continental School, although I did have a brief interest in the logico-positivists.

Christy @ 126

I’m not sure two examples disprove my point. The link you mention states Democratic leadership disappoints. No argument there. Still I don’t think it totally fair to blame leaders alone. Followers have some responsibility. I am not looking for immediate victory on every issue-I doubt we can agree on what that is, but I’m not sure we have time for incremental victories. Blogs need to prove their power. If we took down Nancy Pelosi, that would impress. Or think of something else. I, for one, don’t think more of the same will change things much.

Hugh @ 129

johnSwifty @ 128

I was teasing you, of course, but you knew that. I think Schopenhauer would have described his idea of pessimism as the belief that reason must, necessarily, take a back seat to the human concept survival. Whatever it takes to survive, a human would do, rather than suffer death for a reasoned principle. That is a rather pessimistic view (and it might not be accurate, my philosophy is a little rusty), but it might be an accurate description of what tools like Matt Bai allow for their professional conduct, in order to survive.

I know. I was trying to lay out my philosophical antecedents. I am more English school than Continental School, although I did have a brief interest in the logico-positivists.

I ran into a bit of that when writing a paper on the Sapir Whorf hypothesis years ago. These days I don’t know what to think, but the philosophy from the western schools of pessimism and nihilism continue to plague me.

Well, shhhhh, I won’t tell the Chicago Dyke! Fat old white guys who think stuff don’t count for much, on the continent or off, unless they can translate well into Akkadian.

I gotta go meet with some of them now. Take care!

johnSwifty and Hugh – i don’t even need to duck as your conversation flies over my head.

i’m gonna need 6 lifetimes to just to catch up.

johnSwifty @ 131

Hugh @ 129

I know. I was trying to lay out my philosophical antecedents. I am more English school than Continental School, although I did have a brief interest in the logico-positivists.

I ran into a bit of that when writing a paper on the Sapir Whorf hypothesis years ago. These days I don’t know what to think, but the philosophy from the western schools of pessimism and nihilism continue to plague me.

Well, shhhhh, I won’t tell the Chicago Dyke! Fat old white guys who think stuff don’t count for much, on the continent or off, unless they can translate well into Akkadian.

I gotta go meet with some of them now. Take care!

For some reason Sapir Whorf always makes me think of Klingons. I remember blowing my chances (probably not that good anyway) at a job once because I could not accept it as anything other than racist.

Matt bai has become a self appointed brush fire (mouth piece) raging out of control, ravaging (bad-mouthing/misrepresenting) whole communities (netroots) with his bile (bullshit). Time to hose him down (put him out of his self appointed job).

Approximate Bobby Kennedy:

“You see what is, and ask, ‘Why?’ I see what might be, and ask, ‘Why not?’”

What a marvelous post, Christy–thank you.

I especially liked this line: “What we see is the potential of what could be, and we are willing to do the work to get something better than what we have now.”

I think Congress people are afraid, and that is a major drive that is informing their votes on Iraq and Iran.

I think we as constituents could have an influence on them, if they are progressive and worth keeping in Congress, by letting them know that we will support them and to not be afraid to do the will of their constituents. (The sell-outs we need to run people in their primaries and work hard to help the new people win.)

I am so willing to work to get something better than what I have now.

Matt Bai sees pretty much what the sources about the blogosphere closest to him tell him.

The view expressed above is held by some people online, it’s just that they’re not actually movement leaders.

Fe @ 14

Christy:

As a twenty-five year veteran of public administration, ten-year advocate for state and federal funding for the arts and education, a consultant to government, and administrator for public commissions and boards, I have only two words for Matt Bai and Tim Russert, which can best be communicated using one of the five digits of my right hand.

you said it!

-ck- @ 18

Matt Bai is close, but no cigar.

He is right that we are pragmatists, but he misses the key point:

We are Principled Pragmatists — we fight for what we believe in, but whe do not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Which is why we have such disdain for the Naderistas.
what about when hojo told timmeh to bomb terror camps in iran.let the goosestepping begin
We also understand that more often than not, even a bad Democrat (HoJoe excepted) is a 1000 times better than a Good Republican.

Of course, if the GOP wants to trade Chuck Hagel for HoJoe, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat. Better to have an occasional principled Conservative than a backstabbing Quisling.

I love the irony of two guys who pander to the rich and powerful for a living comparing the concerns raised by citizens on the blogosphere about the direction and leadership of their country to pandering. I suppose I haven’t developed my vision of government to write books like these guys, but then I dont gather these books are going to challenge John Locke or James Madison anytime soon either. It would be nice if “vision of government” was actually recognized by the MSM to include three coequal branches of government and the rule of law. Whenever you feel like you’re becoming cynical, remember how it looks on these two smug characters to get a grip.

Hugh @ 133

johnSwifty @ 131

I ran into a bit of that when writing a paper on the Sapir Whorf hypothesis years ago. These days I don’t know what to think, but the philosophy from the western schools of pessimism and nihilism continue to plague me.

Well, shhhhh, I won’t tell the Chicago Dyke! Fat old white guys who think stuff don’t count for much, on the continent or off, unless they can translate well into Akkadian.

I gotta go meet with some of them now. Take care!

For some reason Sapir Whorf always makes me think of Klingons. I remember blowing my chances (probably not that good anyway) at a job once because I could not accept it as anything other than racist.

Then you wouldn’t have wanted the job, to be sure. I tore it apart as a flawed theory by building a logical argument for accepting mathematics as a language and forcing the premise that shear genius like Liebnitz were more than capable of conceptualizing in that language body, sans actual words. Differential calculus would not exist if Gottfried had needed pre existing words to think in those terms.

WTF? We’re all just hanging around, donating time and money, because we want the “blue” team to win, like a bunch of sports fans?

Yo Matt, the blogosphere is not a fantasy league, and who wins and loses elections really matters.

OMG, I can’t believe how perfect this post was, in both feeling and the ideas it expresses. Perfect!

BTW, Bai is irrelevant.

Biodun @ 52

This is not a movement based on any vision of government.

Whoa! How can Bai sit there and say that with a straight face?

Let’s see…

We want the Constitution to be upheld.

We want corporations cut down to size, so people can live and live well.

We want open honest government (yeah, I know a fantasy).

We want good relations internationally, so we can spend more money helping other people rather than killing them.

And, we want to live in harmony with the Earth, so humanity doesn’t get choked to death or drown in a flood or poisoned by our own food sources.

Zat it? Seems pretty simple to me and it definitely looks like a Global Vision.

Rack ‘Em Up: Matt Bai shoots some pool with Ed Thompson (brother of Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson) at the Sports Page tavern in …
journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/bullpen/matt_bai/backgrounder/ -

Yes we frickin’ do. It’s built on the ideals of the Constitution, including regulated capitalism so that everyone gets a fair shake, promoting the general welfare through the common good, and equality of opportunity to pursue happiness and liberty. I could name about 50 specific policies while we’re at it. The issue is that progressives actually have a surfeit of ideas, and different ways to go about solving the problems we face within those broad ideals, and we don’t all agree with one another. It’s this terrible burden of independent thought.

Furthermore, exactly what ideals or broad vision do these media mavens share? Do they even bother to live up to the ideals of their job description, to strive for the truth above all, to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, to stake out an adversarial position with those in power in order to arrive at the facts, loss of cocktail party privileges be damned?