Crooks & Liars has the Larry Craig arrest tape up, full of uninentional hilarity:
Sergeant: “Okay. I don’t want to get into a pissing match here.”
I’m with Barney Frank — nothing there really sounds like it rises to the level that deserves either Craig’s resignation or the fainting fits of outrage that the GOP “family values” set has worked itself into. Honestly. Because he made “unwanted” sexual advances? Please. Glenn Greenwald is right — it’s the “same sex” part that has them all kerflumoxed. If they threw every man out of the Senate who ever made “unwanted” heterosexual advances, the place would be a friggin’ ghost town.
And MSNBC really needs to deal with their Tucker Problem. He had no reticence about opining against hate crimes legislation of late, without ever copping to the fact that he had actually committed one. Why it seemed only yesterday he was worried that a gay person would be “worth more” than he was. Aside from the appalling bigotry, it’s a bit of a conflict of interest. If he’d lobbied against stiffer sentences for child molesters and then it turned out he was one, I think they’d have something to say about it.
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zed
me too!
drive by i’m afraid, just found out that dad needs cataract surgery in both eyes. won’t have to be put to sleep, medicare and bcbs pay all, but still. a shock.
course twenty years ago it would have been, “sorry son, you’re dad’s blind now and there’s nothing we can do. pay the receptionist on your way out.”
I swear, I’m so sick of Craig’s ‘wide-stance’ coverage…!!! ;-)
Shorter Repugs: “Jeebus, ah actually shook his hand. Where’s the soap?”
Greenwald is right – if Craig had been hitting on a female, there would be no ruckus from the right.
Mad Dogs @ 5
707!
I wanted to drop this Farm Subsidy Map of Manhattan. Who would have thought there were so many farms in New York City!
I think “appalling” has two of the l letters.
And I can’t believe its not Friday.
I dunno, this late disclosure and all the pearl clutching seems like the Republicans eating their own in a pathetic attempt to distract from something coming down the pike…we shall see…
My problem with Sen. Craig is his hypocrisy.
Sergeant: “Okay. I don’t want to get into a pissing match here.”
Quote of the year, dear jeebus.
Jane,.
I agree except for this: Craig is guilty, by virtue of his plea, of criminal conduct.
I could care less (yes, could) about his sexual preferences. Somewhat less about his votes and public positions.
But I don’t want my tax dollars paying the salary of a senator who is a criminal.
AZ Matt @ 11
Mine too, but that is not the issue with the repubs. They think that closets were built for sex.
AZ Matt @ 11
Period!!!
Jonathan @ 13
It was a misdemeanor, I would agree with you if it were a felony.
swag @ 9
I can’t believe I spelled “it’s” wrong while posting about spelling.
If they threw every man out of the Senate who ever made “unwanted” heterosexual advances, the place would be a friggin’ ghost town.
laugh of the day
Oh, but Jane, think of the freaking germs. That’s enough all by itself. Rubbing your hand across the bottom of the stall?
EPU’d:
9/11 Changed Everyting… perhaps Larry Craig’s sexual orientation too (hey, it’s the only card he hasn’t played yet).
Former Fed @ 6
That is a reason why Vitter has not been held to the “same” standard of the Republican “leadership”. McConnell doe not want to open his own closet for inspection.
Jo Fish @ 20
Sounds like that old PR campaign… “Scared Straight.” :)
JPL @ 16
Depending on the misdemeanor and the state, a misdemeanor conviction can result in imprisonment of up to 1 year.
A misdemeanor may not be as serious a criminal violation as a felony, but it’s a hell of lot more serious than a speeding violation.
911 changed everything but Gop sex habits.
steelhead @ 21
My guess is that we’re going to be seeing, as a result of all this, a lot of red-blooded he-man heroics…
… directed at Iran.
If he were hitting on a woman by rubbing his hand on a toilet wouldn’t there be a sicko element involved?
I keep reading and hearing people say that Craig wouldn’t be in any trouble if he had “been hiting on a female’, but that’s not a complete analogy. Seems to me that if he had been making sexual advances in a public women’s restroom he’d still be in a bit of trouble.
steelhead @ 21
Ummm… eeew. Thanks for that image. I was just getting ready to sit down for a birthday dinner.
Number 21: Bad spelling doe should be does
Breaking! Dems won the 2006 election.
Would it be a good time to put up a gay bill?
I don’t mind demanding he resign at all. Make the republicans defend hypocrisy. Also the dishonesty is particularly dangerous for a person in such a powerful position. Like firedog Jonathon said… he could easily be blackmailed. That potential does not go away considering his behavior overall.
I keep reading and hearing people say that Craig wouldn’t be in any trouble if he had “been hiting on a female’
Okay, but what would a woman be doing in the airport men’s room?
Loo Hoo. @ 26
If he were hitting on a woman by rubbing his hand on the toilet wouldn’t he be going to jail for being a man in the women’s toilet?
I believe the point is that he did not request his attorney to be present during the interview and that he did not contest the charge and accepted the misdemeanor. Screw him, he got caught in the tangled web of the police state he help create. Checkout his voting record and say good riddance to another drone.
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Larry_Craig.htm
http://www.vote-smart.org/voti…..d=S0241103
Going for a swim. But before I go I see Mr. “Hardballs” has Tom DeLay on the lead in to discuss the state of the Republican Party. How appropriate. And Matthews calls Tom, “Mr. Leader”. My gawd.
I find it very hard to believe that Craig wasn’t lawyered up on this – even if he did go into the court and plead out by his lonesome.
Seems to me that it would take quite some amount of negotiating to get a solicitation charge reduced to a disorderly conduct charge…
In fact, the activities as presented and alleged don’t even support a plea to the crime of disorderly conduct. Craig is now saying he wants to withdraw his earlier guilty plea – bad move – I don’t think he’ll be looking at a disorderly charge if/when he goes back.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 35
Tweety just L-U-R-V-S him some Tommy Delay
OT, but go check it out later. Strange put options:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/26/16409/4538
althespook @ 3,
I’m sorry to hear that. From what I remember, dealing with my own dad, any disruption in routine was pretty upsetting. May he get through this with the least possible upset!
jayt @ 36
jayt, FWIW, as a lawyer, I agree with your analysis.
Tweety is kinda shredding DeLay right now.
Kinda
here are the elements of disorderly conduct, from Indiana statute:
IC 35-45-1-3
Disorderly conduct
Sec. 3. (a) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;
commits disorderly conduct, a Class B misdemeanor.
Assuming that Minnesota law is not too terribly different, the conduct alleged doesn’t fit the crime he pleaded guilty to.
Tom Delay says he’s not sure that Craig is guilty. He pled guilty! Jeez, can’t take a Rethug at his word any more?
althespook @ 3
Sorry to hear that Alfred, but if he gets his sight back, it will be more helpful for you as well in taking care of him. It is really not a bad procedure.
Ahh, Tucker Carlson. The Kevin Federline of journalism. No offense to K-Fed.
Tucker’s made several comments now that would get a lesser connected employee tossed. Then again, this would reinforce his belief that he’s discriminated against because of who his parents are.
In the meantime, I once had an argument with Tucker at a commercial break during a “Crossfire” taping that became so heated I was afraid I’d be asked to leave. Imagine my surprise to learn that the “Crossfire” staff was laughing, and agreeing with me.
-S
snip:Seems to me that it would take quite some amount of negotiating to get a solicitation charge reduced to a disorderly conduct charge…
A political favor in Minnesota?
jayt @ 42
Jayt, you’re good.
if it sits, you must acquit.
The point is, why have DeLay on at all?
punaise @ 48
Squatters rights?
Eureka Springs @ 50
I don’t know about you two… .
I keep thinking this is a shiny object, but it is the exact opposite of a shiny object but just as distracting. ( dont look at Iraq reports coming up, Iran war preps., Mexican trucks coming in trial period to be allowed anywhere in US beginning Labor Day weekend.)
Anyone a songwriter probably country– “A Wide Stance Man”
Has there been a statement or comment from Mike Crapo other Idaho Senator?
jayt, correct me if I’m wrong.
What you’re saying is, Craig got a DEAL.
If he tries to undo it, he’s going to fare much worse.
Solicitation, I suspect, is a felony (maybe class B or C) under Minnesota law.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
Get one goon to explain the other.
Jonathan, Hypothetically if Vitter and Craig were to appear jointly before the ethics committee what would happen. Any ideas?
punaise @ 48
Missing an “h”.
GordonM @ 56
Where? *g*
JPL @ 55
Not an idea, except this: the senate is a club.
Leisure Suit Larry. LOL. I only played the original computer game version (Lounge Lizards), but never got far: I always drowned in the bathroom when it filled with water!
Larry Craig obviously never learned that danger.
Actually, I think Glenn and Barney are wrong. Soliciting for sex in a public toilet is not an acceptable, “gee, just tell the guy you’re not interested” type of thing.
Having or soliciting sex is not acceptable in non-dating/meeting people situations.
Anybody who has a kid who needs to pee can tell you this. It is a misdemeanor, and it should be, people.
JPL @ 55
Well, I don’t think Vitter is going to ask Craig out on a date.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
With Larry’s ham-handed pas de deux, the Repugs need someone to…ahmmm…”exercise” the Repug muscle.
I look at this whole incident as entertainment- although I had trouble laughing when Larry drug his “wife” out in dark glasses to face reporters.
I don’t want him to resign- I want him to stick around- maybe his act will catch on with americans.
Whatcha got up yer sleeve fer yer next act Lar? Yer a SCREAM.
Tweety likes Delay- God only knows why.
GordonM @ 56
I edited it out. this is a family blog, right?
punaise @ 48
wide stance, not a chance.
Ol Larry married a woman complete with children so that he could have a family to spend more time with…Kinda funny- wonder what effect he’s had on his “family”?
Larry Craig for Solicitor General
rwcole @ 63
Yep.
rwcole @ 64
They’re members of the same club.
punaise @ 68
Oy.
Last time I took a crap- I tried out Larry’s “WIDE STANCE”- ta keep em from “sliding”..
Ah couldn’t make em slide in any event- wonder where he gets his sliding trousers?
From http://www.talkleft.com This what Craig pled guilty to. 609.72 DISORDERLY CONDUCT Subdivision 1. Crime.
Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place, including on a school bus, knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:
(1) Engages in brawling or fighting; or
(2) Disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or
(3) Engages in offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous, or noisy conduct or in offensive, obscene, or abusive language tending reasonably to arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others.
A person does not violate this section if the person’s disorderly conduct was caused by an epileptic seizure.
You’re not being truthful with me, and I have to say I’m kinda disappointed in you, Senator.
Arresting Office of Larry Craig, June 11, 2007
rwcole @ 67
Reminds me of Negroponte. I’d guess he looks like the S&M type…shutter…
punaise @ 68
Gawd… !
Thing is, the details that are coming out are kind of equivocal, so maybe he beats this rap on the facts…..
And the reason that he, or anyone else, thinks that there will never ever ever be anyone else coming forward in the future to give the GOP heebie-jeebies over his sexuality with new allegations is………?
TPM cited a winger who was all in a dither that this would never happen if the person soliciting gay sex was a Dem….I think the GOP would behave exactly this way if it was a Dem. It was funny to see the right go reflexively to the “victim” mode, even if they are victims of their own kind.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
Why isn’t he in court?
Heard on TEEVEE that Larry insisted that it was his RGHT hand that he slud under the stall- not the left—I’m not sure what the significance was- but he was VERY insistent…was it a turkish bathroom or somethin?
AK, sorry to hear that your dad is having another procedure, but I have to assume that he’ll be better off soon. You’re a great son.
randiego @ 66
Reguardless of circumstance?
…with apologies to the attorneys here!
Cable teevee has made 30% of it’s viewers puke by running the blow by blow audio tape of ol Larr puttin the shuck on the undercover cop—”See ah was jes tryin ta wipe mah ass- and ah got confused an wiped YOURS- but I did it with my RIGHT hand damnit!!”
Jonathan @ 53
jayt, correct me if I’m wrong.
What you’re saying is, Craig got a DEAL.
If he tries to undo it, he’s going to fare much worse.
Solicitation, I suspect, is a felony (maybe class B or C) under Minnesota law.
yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. However, i just brought up the Minnesota statute, and it *may* fit after all:
609.72 DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
Subdivision 1. Crime. Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place,
including on a school bus, knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will
tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of
disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:
(1) Engages in brawling or fighting; or
(2) Disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or
(3) Engages in offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous, or noisy conduct or in offensive, obscene, or abusive language tending reasonably to arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others.
(my bold)
So Minnesota law is different, and a disorderly charge (though a stretch) might actually stand under the conduct alleged.
However, prosecutors and judges do not look kindly upon those who come strolling back in after giving a knowing and voluntary plea of guilty, and then seek to have it thrown out later when it becomes inconvenient to the person convicted.
In fact, they very well might be angered enough to go ahead and throw out Craig’s plea, but at that point it could only get very much worse for Craig; not only would a trial be incredibly public and embarrassing (even if it’s still on disorderly conduct), but he could well be looking at the enhanced charge of solicitation from a pissed-off prosecutor.
punaise @ 65
*sputter* I thought it was a Foul-Mouthed Fem Blog…? ;-)
oddball @ 41
kinda — but chris is still a shill.
the republic message du’jour: we kick out our sinners unlike the democrat party!!!
good luck w/ that!
AK – Both parents had the cataract procedure. Miracle stuff. – Good luck
Tucker grabbed him by the what?
Somebody can’t claim to be a Kinsey Zero now, can he?
So how bout Craig WITHDRAWS his guilty plea an goes to court- every teevee camera in the nation will be there ta here him defend hisself….would be worth BILLIONS!
Here’s what I find weird. Just because a cop in a stall next to you says this, this, and that happened, doesn’t make it so. Then Craig ends up taking a guilty plea. There was no “proof”. None. He did some things that might fit perfectly into the “pattern” of solicitation or not, but there is no “proof” – just one guys word against another. So, other than not wanting publicity, why would he plead guilty?
Unless, unless it was videotaped.
I thought it sounded as though his having his palm upward was significant, also read somewhere that the wedding ring was a good thing for the contactee to see perhaps.
LS @ 90
You really like this guy don’t you? No way they have video in a bathroom.
jayt @ 42
Here’s the Minnesota statute, and it is indeed a bit different:
Item (3) sounds like a perfect description of what Craig pleaded guilty to, in order to avoid a lewd & lascivious behavior charge or a charge of solicitation.
LS
Simple
If he pled guilty- there was a pretty fair chance that none of this would ever see the light of day- if he pled “not guilty” there would be a trial and EVERYONE would have known.
He was playin the odds.
Even if he had beaten the rap- he would have been toast.
LS @ 90
are you buying the he said he said defense? BS!
favorite part of the fugitve Dem fundraiser story? learning the names of the Paw children:
raven @ 92
No! I don’t like him at all. I just don’t think that the “signs” and behavior ever culminated in a provable solicitation. The only incriminating thing is his guilty plea, which he would not have plead, had he not had a concrete reason to (unless he’s stupid). No, I don’t like anything about him or his voting record or anything else.
Item (3) sounds like a perfect description of what Craig pleaded guilty to, in order to avoid a lewd & lascivious behavior charge or a charge of solicitation.
Yep, I just caught that too.
Bottom line is that “I made a tactical error” is not a valid reason to have a guilty plea set aside. The judge won’t do it, but if he/she does, it only goes downhill from there for Craig.
steelhead @ 21
McConnell isn’t the only Senator that wants to keep the closet closed.
steelhead @ 21
Vitter was with women, wearing a diaper, and spending money. That’s capitalism! Craig wanted it for free, the slacker.
/wingnut mode off
LS @ 97
ha ha . . .
Strategerie @ 45
Don’t forget, Dan Abrams and Joe Scarborough were laughing their heads off while Tucker was bragging about his gay-bashing. I thought Abrams was some sort of bigshot at MSNBC. If so, that’s even worse.
OT
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/20….._cram.html
Ahem,
Any comments Mr. Baird?
jayt at 84
Disclaimer: I’m a tax lawyer, not a former state prosecuter like Christy.
If I were an MN prosecutor and Craig came in my office and said he wanted to undo the plea, I’d say fine. Let’s do solicitation.
punaise @ 96
No Tinkle?
LS @ 97
There has to be more to it. Besides, I am sure Craig was trying to make this go away. That’s why it is dumb for him to reopen this case. Talk about airing your dirty laundry.
Who picks up stray paper items in the stall of a public restroom?
LooHoo
That’s easy—Gooper Senators- cause they’re small govt types with wide stances.
yellowdogD @ 102
I thought Abrams is also the head of MSNBC(meaning in theory, he could fire -ucker Carlson).
i heart jane @ 95
I am not saying he is innocent. I am saying that the cop charged him based on he said, he said, and then Craig pled guilty. Before you plead guilty, they better prove it.
jayt @ 98
I can hear the judge now . . . “So, let me get this straight: in order to contest the charge of disorderly conduct, and whatever other charges the prosecution would like to bring back from the original incident, you want to stand before this court and admit under oath that when you swore to this court in your earlier plea that you were guilty? You want to fight this charge so badly, you are willing to confess under oath today to perjury? . . .”
I wondered about videotaping too– that is just plain scary! should it be true. do we gals have to worry about video tapings in bathrooms? Also, I was trying to imagine having someone put a foot into my stall, or have someone with blue eyes peaking through the door crack at me for a couple of minutes– would freak me out! then I was able to understand the violation aspects that I had sort of been thinking “no big deal” about.
yellowdogD @ 102
Dan Abrams, General Manager of MSNBC..they all should get nailed, IMHO.
Jonathan @ 104
I would too – in a heartbeat – but I tend to have a short temper sometimes. There’s really no valid reason to allow the withdrawal of the plea.
montag @ 105
all of this Winkin’ and Blinkin’ has Gnawed at Hillary’s conscience. or not.
TheOtherWA @ 100
Personally, I think Vitter retained his seat and other accoutrements because a Dem Guv would do the appointing…!!! ;-)
Craig’s wide stance and Edward’s proposal to forcibly separate people from their SUVs is gettin lots of press….
SUV owners across the nation are joinin the National SUV Association- whose motto is “from my cold dead butt”
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 106
Some flaunt their stupidity by revisiting their guilty pleas. Others, by starting a series of wars against successively larger and more competent ME countries, without bothering to make a success of even the first.
It appears to be a badge of honor in today’s GOP.
Nanz @ 112
With all of Gonzo’s ‘get around the law’ snooping and anti-porn activities, etc., as well as even going around the AG with illegal activities, I don’t put anything past anyone.
punaise @ 115
scant pickings…
yellowdogD @ 102
You’re right, it is, especially since Abrams would most likely be the one to lower the boom on poor, misunderstood Tucker.
They’re all slime, aren’t they? An MSNBC employee essentially confesses to a hate crime in front of them, and they think it’s funny.
-S
I don’t think Craig re-opened this case- the newspaper did.
CTuttle @ 116
Yes, pretty much. But it helps that Vitter was fooling around with women.
after listening to tom delay, all i could think of was, don’t republican mothers tell their children it does not matter what other people do you are responsible for you own actions? republican= hypocrite.
LS @ 110
so: if your were a cop working undercover at a public place where lots of complaints originted . . . you were in a stall in a bathroom in this public place and a guy stood out side your stall peeking in ( you saw his blue eyes!) . . . he took the stall next to yours. tapped your foot. waived his hand under the partition . . .
what would you need an engraved invitation? IRC: 41 other men were nabbed that day in that bathroom . . .
this is plain. why do you not see?
are you tom delay!
I can hear the judge now . . . “So, let me get this straight: in order to contest the charge of disorderly conduct, and whatever other charges the prosecution would like to bring back from the original incident, you want to stand before this court and admit under oath that when you swore to this court in your earlier plea that you were guilty? You want to fight this charge so badly, you are willing to confess under oath today to perjury? . . .”
Ha – yes indeed. He would have had to, in order for the court to accept the plea, say under oath that the facts as alleged, in order that a factual basis for the plea is shown on the record, were indeed true.
A bit of a problem, that.
Vitter wasn’t foolin- he was dead serious!
OT but may be of interest to some:
2002 Senate Debate on Iraq
at 8pm eastern on CSPAN 3
LS @ 110
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Elliott @ 129
LSU vs Miss State too.
TheOtherWA @ 124
My only regret was the better half didn’t deliver divine retribution…!!! ;-)
Imagine a ’straight’ guy being accused by an undercover cop that he was soliciting? Knowing the hetero men, there would be outrage and “what the hell are you talking about, you’re nuts, that’s disgusting, jeebus christ can’t a guy take a crap without the police sniffing in the next stall…” Instead Touchtoe Larry is trying to explain away the hand and foot signals as misunderstandings and his widestance squatting preferences.
1953 Ohio State vs Michigan four yards by both teams
i heart jane @ 126
Yeah…I’m Tom Delay…and I woundn’t need an engraved invitation. Proof (exchange of money, something taped, physical exposure) that is what I would need. It is no different than someone pulling you over, because you have long hair and are exiting a concert and being pulled out, searched, thrown up on the side of the car, because a cop says they smelled pot. If they don’t find the pot, they don’t have the proof. Why can’t you see that?
jayt @ 127
jayt, I’m not a criminal lawyer, but I’ve always been interested in criminal law (for its elegance).
If Craig were to withdraw his plea, and if the withdrawal were accepted, wouldn’t the judicial process start all over again in his trial for soliciting?
Hmmm
then:
A little conflicted there don’t you think since Frank admitted during the investigation about his associate running a protestation ring out of his townhouse, that he had first met the guy (Gobie) by hiring him for sex in the first place.
I think Frank is a good guy and a good legislator, and he has not been one to be pushing anti-gay policies and fomenting anti-gay bigotry in society while he was in the closet (i.e. he isn’t a lying hypocrite like Craig is) but you might want to walk back those arguments about siding Frank and lambasting Tucker for “nondisclosure” that he is guilty of what he opines about, since they eat each other alive.
Tucker should be rightly hammered for being a bigot and twerp and committing a gay-bashing crime of violence, but as I said, the non-disclosure angle is kinda a non-starter, particularly in the same bit where you are lauding Frank’s take on getting busted for an embarrassing sexual situation involving pleading guilty to crimes involved therein.
jayt @ 127
Somehow, I think Craig will get a slap upside the head from his wife. I don’t think she wants to go through a trial. What a circus that will be if Craig actually does try to take back his guilty plea. It’s only gonna PO the fundies more.
punaise @ 115
Clinton, Barack, and Dodd on a dash
Sailed off in a Gucci shoe –
Sailed off on a river of campaign cash,
Into a sea of Blue.
“Where are you going, and what gets you kickin’?”
The old moon asked the three.
“We have come for the rubber chicken and checks
That live in the ballrooms and backrooms;
Nets of silver and gold have we!”
Said Clinton,
Barack,
And Dodd.
rwcole @ 134
rwcole
are you a Big Ten graduate?
Jonathan @ 136
Yes. That’s why Craig is stupid for even wanting to withdraw his plea. He’s just gonna be opening a new can of worms. A can best left unopened(for Craig).
montag – touchee
A little connecting the dots. Larry being from Idaho which has more Mormons than Utah, as well as being Mit’s man until a few days ago, good chance he is a fellow LDS’er.
Just a theory here but the reason he may not have consulted with an attorney is they tend to be expensive.
Put this to together with the fact that when a Mormon goes for a weekend out on the town he puts on a clean shirt and takes along $50 without changing either may help explain Larry’s non-lawyering behavior.
Strategerie @ 122
I am a little surprised that GLAAD and other organizations haven’t put the screws to MSNBC. Tucker was probably full of shit about what did or didn’t happen, but that isn’t the point. Having the General Manager laughing about a real or imagined hate crime is unacceptable. When I saw those jackasses laughing, I just thought of Matthew Shepard tied to a fence in Laramie WY.
tucker carlson — not gay!!!!!
LS @ 135
oh i see: the word of a republic senator that has for decades been dogged by rumours of deviant behaviour is better that that of a hard working, experienced city cop.
hmmmmm: strange that?
FWIW: your analogy is bogus . . . so much so i need not point out it’s flaws.
Jonathan
No- PAC 10
I’ve always HATED big 10 football- I made up the date but there WAS an Ohio State game I watched in the fifties where both teams were punting on third down…pathetic!
Now THOSE guys were CONSERVATIVE
If anyone ever asked about the modern invention called the “forward pass” they’d all say the same thing
“There’s three things can happen when ya pass the football and two of em are bad”
wtf @ 145
Incurably stupid though.
KO Time!!!
Go, Cal Bears.
LS @ 135
LS, I can understand what you’re saying.
I would just point out that in many, many court cases, the decision is in fact rendered simply on the basis of one person’s word against another’s.
Jo Fish,
Happy Birthday!
Jonathan @ 136
Well – first, there is no basis for a court to grant a motion to withdraw his plea of guilty, absent some proof that he for some reason didn’t understand what he was doing. (a Republican United States Senator claiming to not understand the law is kinda appealing, though, huh?)
Secondly, if he *is* allowed to withdraw the plea – yes – everything goes back to square one, including the process of deciding which statute to bring charge(s) under.
RichardCA @ 143
He’s Methodist…next theory.
Cal Bears are the second best team in the pac 10.
Steve-AR @ 154
Yeah, in Idaho, Craig’s a moderate. :)
“oh i see: the word of a republic senator that has for decades been dogged by rumours of deviant behaviour is better that that of a hard working, experienced city cop.”
So, the fact that this man is a “Republican” and there have been “rumors” is what you base your “assumption” of guilt on? The only thing that says “guilty” is the plea he took for whatever reason. I know nothing about the history or experience of the cop – I guess you do.
Bustednuckles @ 148
and, as msnbc sez: ‘un-believably entertaining’…
rwcole @ 155
ah yes: those pesky Trojans.
rwcole @ 147
rw
I despair of kids’ opportunities today.
In my day (early 1960s), kids could go to Big 10 or Pac 10 universities basically for free and get great educations.
No such opportunity today.
punaise @ 159
Said Craig to the cop….
rwcole @ 108
Too funny.
LS @ 157
no: his guilty plea works for me!
CTuttle @ 132
IIRC She’s damn proud be to Wendy Vitter.
Have hated USC for years— then my daughter got her masters there and convinced me that there were a few kids who weren’t Rich So Cal Brats on parade.
LS @ 157
With all due respect, you are full of shit.
montag @ 161
the other day I pondered whether Craig was using protection
punaise @ 150
Heh. Back when I was at Cal, the Bears really only played one game a year (and you know what that one was). What a shock it was when they came up with a real team!
i heart jane @ 163
me too!
when my eco-activist friends plead guilty after demo arrests, they do so after working with legal counsel.
Any Senator can afford an hour of legal counsel.
AZ Matt @ 11
I think an excellent Democratic bumper sticker would be
i heart jane @ 163
and no i do not know the cop: but i trust the mn police sargent over a right wing, bush enabling, clinton attacking, hypocritical, gay bashing phoney ass hat.
call me crazy!
GordonM @ 168
the best part? Stanford was 1-11 last year…
Phoenix Woman upstairs
raven @ 166
Raven. You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, but I would never, ever tell you that I think you are full of shit even when I disagree with you.
GordonM @ 168
They better strap it on Saturday night. If they look like they did last year against the Vols it’ll be curtains.
Mauimom @ 170
Exactly!!!
raven @ 175
that loss was a punch to the gut for them, but they recovered.
rwcole @ 147
OU (Okla) used to pull a quick kick on third down and long, without lining up for a punt. Worked on more than one occasion in forcing really bad field position or a fumble.
LS @ 174
I really tried to work with you the other night and ended up thinking you were a compassionate person trying your best to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. What is the point of you raising the same argument over and over and over?
Well, Senator Craig will be pleased that the state next to the one where he got arrested for illicitly practicing his sexuality has just legalized gay marriage.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law…..index.html
The White House has found inspiration- is writin up the general’s report- which now includes a new Wide Stance stratergy to follow up after the “surge”..
“How can them democrats criticize the new Wide Stance stratergy- we haven’t given it a CHANCE yet.”
The BEST team in the PAC 10, of course- is the University of Oregon Fighting Ducks!!!
Sure glad the Gomorrah Ol’ Party picked Minneapolis for their national convention next year. Gee, an airport bathroom so notorious they had to set up a sting…hmmm, don’t s’pose that was a selling point for the site selection committee?
Maybe that’s why they’re in such a Rush to dump Craig.
The sad part is that the taxpayers will pay for this
Senatorturd’s retirement.“More than 20 members of Congress who have been convicted of crimes, both Democrats and Republicans, are continuing to receive their federal pensions, at a cost of $1 million a year to American taxpayers. Among the convicted ex-Congressmen are Randy “Duke” Cunningham, who is serving an eight year prison sentence, Minnesota Senator David Durenberger, who pleaded guilty to using his Senate expense account for personal profit, and Dan Rostenkowski, the former Congressman from Illinois, who served 15 months in prison after being charged with a slew of corruption charges. Rostenkowski, the former Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, is receiving $126,000 per year. “
http://www.associatedcontent.c…..ngham.html
Prairie Sunshine @ 183
wow… The airport authority there may have to increase the size of that facility in time for their party conference.
Prairie Sunshine @ 183
Why do I believe that the goopers are going to be extremely regretful for having selected Minneapolis as their convention location?
raven @ 179
I am a compassionate person putting myself in another person’s shoes. I don’t even like the person, but I just think there should be more concrete evidence in these kinds of cases. Apparently, the entire universe disagrees with me.
Well not quite. A lower court said a denying same-gender marriages was unconstitutional and the case is most likely to get appealed.
dakine01 @ 186
the major nets will have to plant photogs in all the airport lavatories…
Hey,isn’t Wide Stance Larry one of the Singing Senators? Then they should learn this John Latouche / Vernon Duke classic, sung by the great Eddie Cantor in Banjo Eyes
“Rent’s overdue
My sister has measles
Hole in my shoe
My belt’s drawn tight
My income is nil
My in-laws are weasels
My present is dark
My future’s a fright
But as long as you are there
What in the world do I care?
Though hope is low,
I’m aglow when you smile at me
Life is simple as A B C
Not a thought in my head
Not a care in the world
Though skies are grey
I’m as gay as a Disney cow
Not a wrinkle upon my brow
Not a cent in the red
Not a care in the world
I view the scene
Like that old queen of Russia
As Kate the Great
Used to say long sgo
“Nichevo!”
And so if I move
In a groove with a giddy trot
I’m a trottin’ because I’ve got
Not a bean in my pot
Not a care in the world
Though I can’t jive
I revive when I see your face
Not a limp in my merry pace
Not a crimp in my style
Not a care in the world
Though I’m a wreck
I can peck if you take a chance
Not a shine on my blue serge pants
Not a crack in my smile
Not a care in the world
Why should I fret
When I bet on a sure thing?
Like Nick the Greek
Used to say ev’ry day
“Yip-i-ay!”
And so if I’m struttin’
With nuttin’ ahead in store
There’s a reason I said before
I’ll repeat it once more
Not a care in the world!”
Jonathan @ 160
My freshman year tuition @ Stanford was $1050. A bit of a clue as to what a dinosaur I am.
LS @ 187
I apologize for the invective.
the whole Craig scandal came to light due to the failure of his phallus-shush reasoning.
raven @ 192
No problem.
rwcole @ 165
Ditto re the hatred of USC.
Then my son announced it was his #1 choice because he wants to be a sports journalist.
He’s a sophomore there now. The caliber of the student body really HAS changed since “my day” in the Pac-10.
But I remind him about once/month that my support of his attendance there is proof of what a great mom I am.
RichardCA @ 143
He’s a Methodist.
The other day someone in the comments said that this bathroom at the Mpls. airport is out of the way, that is, not in a terminal one would just happen to be in when waiting to transfer flights.
I am sure that there are bathrooms like this in airports everywhere, but now I wonder if Mpls. is the likely place to get a flight to Idaho or did he book through this airport because he had this place down? Mpls. was a regular stop for him, I believe Craig said.
I know we are in EPU land.
Craig was caught doing what a lot of gay and/or closeted men do…soliciting immediate sex in a public restroom. I’m a gay man and I still find the notion unsavory, but hey, it’s a compulsion for many and a choice for some.
Part of the thrill of that kind of encounter vs hiring a hustler for an hour is the fear of getting caught. I mean, how much more public can you get with sex short of giving some guy a blow job on the tarmac, for God’s sake?!
While I think entrapment is unethical, until it’s okay with this assbackwards country to be gay, it goes with the territory and anyone seeking public sex knows it.
Craig should resign because he’s a liar, to the arresting officer…and to the nation.
He wouldn’t have to make up a transparent fiction such as taking a ‘wide stance’ if he wasn’t obviously admitting that his foot was ’somehow’ in the next stall polishing some guy’s shoe.
I’m sure he’s mortified (as usual) with getting caught, but he is so practiced in lying about his sexual practices that he just cannot fess up.
He should resign not because he likes to suck cock, but because he’s in no position to preach or legislate morals when his own are so screwed up.
As a proud bed-wetter liberal let me make the civil liberties case.
It’s entrapment. Sitting in a stall for a long time in a well-known hookup spot is questionable. But in response to the foot-tap the cop sent some kind of encouraging message. Moving his foot or something.
There’s arguments both ways about entrapment. It may be the only way to get a conviction in some situations, like politicians taking bribes. But there’s usually some indication that the politician is crooked. But as a general trolling type operation it’s an invitation to police corruption, especually perjury in a situation where there are no other witnesses. Is it worth the police effort here to prevent what would be to many people a victimless crime?
Another problem with this kind of situation is that all the elaborate structure of protection for the defendant are worthless in practice. For a married employed male the big punishment is in the charge itself, not the outcome of a trial. If he’d been tried for murder and acquitted, he could go on with his life. If he’d gone to trial on this and been acquitted, everyone would remember the accusation. Arguendo, even if he were innocent, he could have felt coerced into pleading guilty to avoid a trial. It tends to give the prosecution a very strong hand. The authorities in Minneapolis don’t seem to have abused it, but some authorities will.
Glee at the discomfort of his family seems inappropriate and possibly unnecessary. There are men who are happy as husbands and fathers and feel they need something on the side — a mistress, transient female encounters or male contact. Somethines the wives know and tolerate the situation. The standard explanation seems to be that he’s a gay guy in denial whose marriage is a charade. That’s not necessarily the case, and we are never going to know the deatails.
Roger Bigod @ 199
FWIW, I think Craig is probably gay, and that he was probably soliciting sex. But I agree that the cops net is pretty wide.
if it weren’t for all the serious hate crime issues of the senator’s career, this might be hilarious. Now the show has come around to perjury or porn. Perhaps he prefers the perjury now? That is a crime he has no worries about as a “(R-Idaho)” But darn it, he agreed to cop a plea to lewd conduct that is never even spoken about by the officer on the tape. The officer was trying not to mention it on tape at all, repeatedly trying to protect him if he would just tell the truth about the gesture he apparently made to same officer, without a description to incriminate him further. And the officer still did not use that type of terminology in the interview when he and the “senator” knew they were talking about the same thing. The “senator” could have said a lot less and had a much less problematic interview and subsequent audio tape. It was the senator that volunteered he “isn’t gay” when the officer made a motion duplicating his gesture of an apparent come on. He tried a few times not to say anything about the matter in respect the privacy of the suspect. Notice how the “senator” finally succumbs to reality and gives in? Why did the interview end?
This is a homophobic homosexual that actively seeks to harm people that are like himself. He has gone as far as to lie about lying about what he has admitted to. Credibility is gone as the world has caved in on him all at once.
Help this poor idiot remove this kind of behavior from the senate, and society. Help others behind him that are homo/homophobic prosecutors in the public discourse disappear as they become irrelevant. We can’t pretend that what he did in the bathroom is the crime in question here. His lying to a police officer and the self hatred of his orientation is a lot worse than the trim he was looking for. Stop him from hurting others he convinces to hate, and those future victims. All of his constituents may not understand him, many just want to get rid of him. But maybe we can prevent more scared children turn down a similar debilitating pathway toward life. And perhaps this will help expose those representatives of the people that hate like he does. And end their legacy. How sick does someone have to be to hate them self so much as to hurt others openly, and hide that you are one of them? call the dr.
These were not “unwanted sexual advances”
The police decoy wanted them so he could
get his arrest and fine.
The police decoy was himself guilty
of disorderly conduct by sitting in a stall
overlong making pickup signals.
Craig peering in the crack saw signals
of encouragement from the decoy
- perhaps even exposing himself
suggestively.
punaise @ 65
Blub @ 185
First the bridge collapse, now Craig and then the Republican national convention. Just how much torture can that state take?
Moderators!
Darn. In post 203 my quotations didn’t come out right. Could someone fix it?
Faux has cancelled that lame excuse for a comedy program, the Half Hour Comedy Hour. Reportedly, Faux is replacing this program with a new one: “Larry Craig’s and David Vitter’s Republican Lonely Hearts Club.” The pilot episode will have guest appearances by Ted Haggard, Mark Foley and Jeff Gannon, who will advise Republican viewers on how best to hook up with another Republican, no matter what sexual gender or sexual preferences, for whatever their little lonely hearts desire.
Oh, and as an added feature, all guests will have their faces in shadow with their voices disguised, while any Republican viewers calling in will have their voices scrambled. Hey, with so many “holier-than-thou” Republicans in the “closet,” one can’t be too careful.
Now that the two week long coverage of Michael Vick has ended, I guess this Larry Craig story will continue until he resigns from the U.S. Senate. My guess is that will happen when the White House no longer needs the media diverted from the ramped up re-surge in Iraq, and for the coming escalation of the war to include Iran (2nd week in September, or so I’m hearing).
Why isn’t anybody asking how a U.S. senator gets arrested on June 11th, pleads out on August 8th, and the public only learns about it (from Roll Call, not the Idahoan, which had deep-sixed their own piece on Craig) on August 28th. The day after Alberto Gonzales, the most corrupt Attorney General since Ed Meese, steps down after months of revelations as to the crimes committed by him and this White House?
Idaho is a solid red state. It’s of no gain for Democrats. Yeah, Craig and Republicans are hypocrites, but what else is new? This isn’t going to change any red staters’ minds. It will reinforce for homophobes just how tawdry and disgusting they think homosexuality is, and it will reinforce for civil libertarians what a waste of public resources sting operations are.
For Chrisssakes, if somebody’s foot brushes against yours under a public restroom stall, ‘Man-up’ and say, “I’m not interested, move your Goddamned foot!”
Rightwingers’ chutzpah knows no bounds – talk about a ‘nanny society.’ Rightwingers seem to have only two responses to their homophobia: They either go into macho, ‘Matthew Shepherd’-hyperdrive, or they insist that the police hold their hands and lock up pathetic men (tragic really) like Larry Craig.
This is a diversionary story, and not worth the time being given it, but count on liberal blogs to take the bait, too.
How did Roll Call get this story? Because that’s what we should be asking.
jayt @ 36
The Police Records show that Craig called them a week after the incident demanding that he be given the nameand phone number of the prosecuting DA so that he could give to his “law firm”. Two different Officers reported conversations to this effect.
JPL @ 55
I assume that there would be an investigation as to whether either utilized government money or resources to engage in illegal sexual activity or inappropriate lewd behavior. If either Vitter or Craig used funds, say for a hotel on a non-existent “missed my flight”, or made phone calls to “escort services”, or used their government email to contact a sex site…all that would be “very bad, very naughty”.
Jane Hamsher @ 71
Well… the post IS wide open! Maybe IDAHO-MO Larry should pick up the papers and proposition him for the position.
rwcole @ 72
Larry Craig must wear those huge bottomed hip-hop slacks in order to get his feet so spleyed that he could use that “wide stance” to get his foot under the partition!
Anyone ever try to cr*p like this? It’s absurd!
LS @ 90
The arresting officer MAY have used a small videocam to support his evidentiary claims…but that’s not mentioned in the statements he gave. Generally, though, a sworn officer is given higher credibility that a defendant in such cases.
I would also point out that about the time that Craig was arrested a gay-sex chatroom posted a report from a “user” of that Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport toilet announcing the “sting” and asserting that the police were “entrapping” people by “tapping their feet” and “reaching under the stalls with their feet, touching your foot”.
Now this sounds precisely what Larry Craig is ACCUSED OF DOING. So was someone telling the “truth”? Or was someone attempting to start a rumor that the police were doing this so that there might be some legal ground to have cases dropped. I wonder if Craig’s emails can be checked to see if HE was the one that sent that “notice”!
i heart jane @ 95
Exactly…the problem with the “he said…he said” defense of Craig is that in terms of SWORN statements Craig and the officer AGREE!
Craig admits that he “had a wide stance” and put his foot into the other cubicle, touching the officers foot “accidentally”. He also said that his reaching down was to “pick up a piece of paper”. He didn’t deny that these events happened…he simply had “excuses” for them.
But when you realize that his “picking up the paper” required him to reach across with his LEFT hand (wedding ring) PALM UP one sees the flimsiness of his assertion. The officer was able to see the ring knuckle, which means that Craig projected the hand faily far under the partition. Try this (in an empty bathroom, please) as an experiment.
I think a judge would have nailed CRAIG.
I think CRAIG contacted his lawyers with the police reports…and I suspect THEY contacted the Asst. DA in charge of the case (Craig called the police for his number and said twice it was for his lawyers).
I suspect that Craig may have contacted someone in the Minnesota Governmet or the MN Republican Congressional Representation to “fix this”. That’s why the PUGS want to stanch this BEFORE it gets too heavy…they could lose others!
Loo Hoo. @ 107
No T.P.? Yeah, that’s it! There was no T.P. and he was simply trying to get the attention of the next guy over by making the “fondling gesture”…that was actually a well-known sign for “gimme some paper”. His silence was because he was holding his breath after a particular bad stinker.
And his toe tap was frustration that there was no paper! He resorted to using his foot to get the attention of the other guy.
And he was just about to blurt out “NO…toilet paper” when the officer showed him his badge. He only finished the first word when he was stunned into silence.
He didn’t even have enough time to flush when the cop told him to go to the holding area!
Of course he pled guilty…who would want this degrading treatment by the cops…making the Senator wander around in his own feces without even the grace of giving him a “Vitter Diaper”…be made public!
Nanz @ 112
The officer only would need to have a videocam within his own stall to get sufficient evidence. But no such cameras are noted in the depositions. Maybe they are mentioned in cases where others “fought” the arrests.
Can anyone find out about whether anyone fought the charges and what the outcomes of those cases were? Seems like a real mix of fairly high profile and lower level airport employees were caught in the “sting”. Might be interesting…and also give the name of the Asst. DA that handled these cases. He would know if Craigs lawyers actually called him, as well! Or if Craig handled it all by his lonesome.
thank you Jane for saying this…I have been wondering all day what the big deal is…and why it is wrong to tap three times with your loafer. what a bunch of tight asses.
I hope Craig is a real prick about this by insisting that Vitter be dealt with before he goes.
Proportion does not exist in our national dialogue. Sexual pecadilloes cause outrage, but support an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation which aside from the mayhem it creates loots the national treasury and one can run for President of the United States.
As horrific as Michael Vick’s crimes against innocent dogs, we all participate in the far greater crime currently being perpetrated on our planet via atmospheric pollution.
Why our psyches are so easily displaced is hard to say, but salacious details always seem to capture our attention.
If they threw every man out of the Senate who ever made “unwanted” heterosexual advances, the place would be a friggin’ ghost town
You say that like it would be a bad thing.
Tucker doth protest too much I think he’s in the same closet that Craig’s in(not that anythings wrong with that).