Via Pach earlier today, Matt Stoller worried this morning about the timidity of too many Democrats in the face of the Orwell Bush administration’s never-ending fear tactics, but tried to offer some optimism:
Building a different set of incentives for decision-makers is going to take a lot of work. The problem is a mixture of conventional wisdom, poor judgment, bad values, a lack of coordination with activists by progressive members, and inertia. Fortunately, the ACLU is now getting very aggressive against Democrats, Nancy Pelosi is showing a harder line, Moveon is cracking down on people like Baird, local activists are becoming much less tolerant of flouting our values, and we’re starting the criticism necessary to identify and fix the problem.
Others like Kevin Drum, however, focused more on the “lot of work” part, and Steve Benen concurred:
When the debate gets down to soundbite to soundbite, as it often does, and the right says, “Destroy habeas or we might all die,” Dems haven’t quite figured out what to do.
The sooner they come up with something, the sooner they’ll stop losing. Any suggestions?
Excuse while I flail my arms again and wonder when someone will finally notice. As many FDL readers know, I’ve been yammering about this theme for years now. Most recently, after Hillary Clinton put her foot in her mouth last week about terrorism, I wrote at Needlenose:
As I’ve been saying for longer than I like to remember, someone needs to stand up and say, “The way George Bush has gone about defending this country is the wrong way.”
It seems simple enough, but when have you heard a prominent Democrat make that assertion… much less make it clearly and often?
As basic as that soundbite may be, it opens listeners’ minds to changing how they think about national security. And you can back it up with one equally simple question: Was losing more than 3,000 American lives in Iraq the best way to defend our country? Then, once that presumption of superior daddy-hood has been stripped away from the Bushites, you can start talking about how perhaps telling the truth about the threats that face us, and doing what works to defeat them, might be a better approach than the bluster-loudly-and-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot approach the GOP seems to love so much.
And then, once you’ve clearly put Democrats on the side of establishing the best way to defend this country, you might find them being a little braver about standing up to the offensive Republican proposal of the moment, whether it’s continuing the escalation in Iraq, extending warrantless wiretaps, or whatever.
But first, someone needs to lay out the basic premise… and, say, aren’t there at least three prominent Democratic spokespeople traipsing around the country with millions of dollars at their disposal to get a message out?
What are they waiting for?
Related posts:
- Square State Project to Polis & DeGette: Please Vote “No” On Supplemental
- Ambinder: Sorry I Was So Stupid, But I Was Right to Be Stupid
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- A Public Option in the Democratic Platform?
- Report Confirms Poor Electrical Work by KBR Endangers US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
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Yup! There is a war on!
And I have a nephew over there and I wish we didn’t have a war going on.
You’d think that polls showing that people now think Democrats are better on national security and terrorism would give them the idea that they should talk about how Democratic policies are better on national security and terrorism, rather than worrying about Republican fear-mongering attacks. But I guess that’s why I don’t get big bucks as a political consultant.
Gee you mean neglecting port security (trying to turn over control of the ports to companies from Dubai among other actions/inactions), mortgaging our future to the Chinese, destroying the army in an un-winnable war/invasion, out-sourcing our intelligence activities in no-bid contracts, and all the other acts of negligence performed by this administration don’t help us to protect ourselves? Now who’da thunk it?
I mentioned this at the end of the last thread, but thought it might be pertinent here as well…
Just a driveby–
My thought is that Reid and Pelosi need to be held accountable for their actions to allow the enabling of the Bush Administration’s plans. They are the stone around the neck of the Progressives in Congress right now. Their constituents can’t vote them out until 2008, and I don’t believe they can be recalled. They hold their leadership positions because the House and Senate voted them in, right? Could the House and Senate not make other, more suitable, choices for leadership? Do enough of them give a damn?
I’m really glad for the town hall meetings such as the one Baird held in Vancouver that are letting them know what their constituents think.
Love the headline. Unfortunately they do know there is a war on and don’t have the guts to do what he American people everwhelmingly want them to do stop the occupation of Iraq. Can’t one of them just stand up and call this illegal occupation what it really is?
Right ON!!! I mean, everyone knows that GWB is totally FUBAR. It is time for them to start using that exactly. His approach is wrong. Wrong on terror. Wrong on everything.
Hillary has asserted that she thinks we’re safer now than we were before 9/11 so that would be quite a backtrack.
But the ACLU campaign has been incredibly successful. I’ve heard they’ve gotten more response to their Reid/Pelosi campaign than anything they’ve ever done.
There’s a lot of disillusionment out there.
George Bush’s Republican Party has been wrong about everything. Why should we listen to them now?
Why aren’t they saying variations of that all the damn time?
Fifty Billion Dollars
I could weep when I think what we could accomplish with that here.
What it means is that more people die. Ours, theirs…why?
What part of “Bring our troops home NOW” don’t they understand?
The temptation to break out the dolls and pins is hard to resist…
The belief here is that the American people are starving for a Democrat who screams his or her head off about what’s going on. When I watch and listen to the front runners my eyes glaze over. It’s not just the content that’s missing; it’s the delivery too. Gawd.
do-si-do said on the last thread:
“Has anyone floated the theory that perhaps SJC is “playing nice” because they really have the goods and will cooperate if the right candidate comes up in return for dropping further investigation “for the good of the country” because they believe the country would be freaked out knowing how prostituted the DOJ may be?”
I think that, as in the Plame investigation, everything comes down to the war. People for the war didn’t want the investigation to proceed, people against it did. If the public were fully aware of the crimes at DOJ they would be genuinely outraged and the White House exposed to impeachment. It would destroy the presidency and thereby stand a chance of ending the war.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
Edwards is good.
But I wish 1992 Mario Cuomo would travel forward in time and run.
Dems need to get on the talk shows and define habeus in simple terms. Joe Sixpack doesn’t know what habeus is. He doesn’t know that his civil rights have been destroyed by Bushco.
The pundits have been telling him that he shouldn’t worry if he hasn’t done anything wrong.
Everyone should be worried b/c they have no rights.
Timidity is not something the Dems should worry about right now. If they want change then nee to hammer at it hard. They should be shoving the Craig-Vitter-Stevens-etc. down the Rethugs throats.
Of course most of the citizenry aren`t under constant focused (illegal) surveillance by Bush Handlers, Inc. either as are those in the political spotlight.
I`m sure that FDL IS under such illegal observation.
There is power in numbers.
“If your pictures aren’t good enough, you’re not close enough,” – Robert Capa
Jane Hamsher @ 8
there’s a lot to be disillusioned about.
she says understatedly.
“Destroy habeas or we might die.”
Boy, the rejoinder to that one is so friggin’ simple.
“Destroying our rights ourselves is committing suicide.”
A little OT, but my favorite sentence in Bush’s American Legion speech was this:
“Extremists would control a key part of the world’s energy supply, could blackmail and sabotage the global economy.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..828-2.html
cleter @ 13
Edwards is not bad at all. But Hillary and Obama (the annointed front-runners)? They’re better than a sleeping pill. ;0)
A country that will sacrifice freedom for security has neither freedom or security.
Ben Franklin said something to that effect.
basic premise..
You took an Oath!
3/4 plus trillion per spent onoffense and defense mean no health care for all.
The big lie which led us into Iraq.
The Constitution. (stoooopid)
Free and fair elections. (also publicly financed)
Hatch Act.
A subpoena requires you show up or go to jail.
Executive privilege has been abused.
Remember Orwell and Hitler are supposed to serve as warnings not goals.
etc…
I am now sending a huge consulting bill to the DLC.
Stop “Wrong Way” George!
I think do-si-do is right – whether it’s the SJC, someone has the goods, and that’s why Rove and Gonzo are out. We are past “check”, and all W’s manouverings are just stall tactics before the “mate”. (Sorry, Craig story’s been getting so much air time.)
Brisingamen @ 10
How about this? It might work! *g*:
http://www.bellbookandcandle.c…..746168.htm
From The Hill:LINK
Caving to the FearCo Agenda has become the New National Pasttime of the Democratic (alleged) “Leadership”. All any republican has to do is rattle the chains of the terrorist threat and we get to watch our “Leaders” head for their hidey-holes like Prairie dogs who get spooked by a backfiring car exhaust.
I don’t know what the solution is, none of the Prairie dogs presently enjoying good parking spaces on Capitol Hill are going to forsake them to allow anyone with Cojones to take over, but something has to change at the Congress end of PA avenue, or we’re gonna keep getting sucker punched and then fall for it again. Isn’t the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and expecting a different result?
Maybe we just need braver Prairie Dogs, I don’t know.
You’re right on. How do we handle a party where our leaders refuse to lead?
brendan >
As Jerry Wurf (I believe it was in the mid 70`s) put it, “If the American people understood what was being done in their name, there would be blood in the streets this afternoon.”
The trick of course is to get to where the American people actually understand.
“People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election.” – Otto von Bismarck
montag @ 18
I don’t think there’s any argument you can make to make the public feel a threat to civil liberties as an immediate threat. What was necessary was to expose the crimes at DOJ, to vividly demonstrate to the public what this is about: spying on the opposition. The Democrats not only didn’t move in for the kill, they legislated the issue away. It’s moot. Nothing they say now can remedy their failure to act.
LS @ 25
I’m in!
Brisingamen @ 10
Why resist? I’m not a believer, but I do believe in trying everything…
Jane Hamsher @ 8
Sometimes I think that Hillary says things to just disagree with the other candidates. She has a control issue.
brendan @ 19
That’s a real knee-slapper. He serves up those reflective remarks without a hint of irony or introspection.
Brisingamen @ 10
I thought you were going to banish them? I made a nice circle and everything.
FDL’ers:
Many discussions at this site about proper framing of issues.
This group could, collectively, create a Wikipedia of suggested memes across a range of topics for Dems to use, that would be much better than what their paid insular strategists provide them.
Anyone have the Wiki skills to create such a site?
JPL @ 33
It’s a legacy of Bill. Somebody needs to extract some type of promise from her not to take advice on these things from him if she is to become president.
Bush’s war planning has gone so well, police departments in the US are unable to get sufficient bullets for their officers to get in their required practice time on the shooting range, because the military is sucking up all the available ammo. From msnbc:
Sounds to me like the mishandling of the war in Iraq is making the streets of the US more dangerous, despite Bush’s “we’re fighting over there so we don’t have to fight over here” message.
A lot of my Democratic friends chide me for “being so hard” on our party leaders and some of ‘our’ candidates for president. I don’t give a fuck.
Aack – forgot the link!
Swopa, there’s been one ‘prominent’ Democrat traipsing around the country, with thousands of dollars, saying loudly and emphatically; “Bush went about it all wrong…!” Dennis Kucinich!!!
GordonM @ 24
Please be right. Please be right
It’s not a bumper sticker but they should say that destroying Habeas Corpus is the lazy, incompetent way to protect this country. If one cares about the U.S. Constitution, then we can have both security and strong constitutional protection.
I read years ago that, while Clinton was pres, they were trying to figure out a way to preserve every phone call that was made. However, they were going to encrypt these calls and they wouldn’t have access w/o a warrant. The program was still being developed when Bush took over.
Can’t we just stick ‘em all under a chalice or something? I’ve got a sage smudge stick too.
Peterr @ 38
Well…to be honest, the most effective cop isn’t the one who can blast away the most bullets in the shortest amount of time. So I’m of mixed opinion on this one.
solai @ 43
I can’t begin to tell you the comfort that gives me.
This is sooo exciting:
From NBC’s Kelly O’Donnell and Lauren Appelbaum
After three months of “testing the waters” and testing the patience of some Republican supporters, Fred Dalton Thompson will seek his party’s nomination.
This afternoon in a conference call with invited supporters and participants, Thompson political director Randy Enwright explained the next steps for the “Friends of Fred Thompson Committee.”
Taking a page from the Hillary Clinton playbook, the formal announcement will debut on a webcast on Thursday, September 6. It will be followed by a swing through key states: Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. And it will conclude with a “Welcome Home” in Lawrenceburg, TN on the 15th.
Epu’d from prior thread:
WRT Banishing – Tejanarusa and LHP — Working on it… I’m going after the oathbreakers. They’re fair game, because they’ve given their oaths IN PUBLIC and on a book supposedly sacred to them — therefore working to remove them is not a violation of “harm none.”
(Actually I’ll be petitioning Themis for appropriate redress of my grievances.)
Writing up the rite (making sure I don’t zap myself in the process) is a little time consuming. Aiming to do so at the dark of the moon, September 10th. The following day there’s a Solar Eclipse…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
Somebody should try to convince the evangelicals to switch parties and vote for Edwards in the primaries.. I mean, superficially at least, he’s the only serious white male candidate in either party whose personal life exemplifies those family values they claim to care about, and who isn’t a philanderer, serial adulterer, trophy-wife-wielding Hollywood jackarse or serial flipflopping closet-gay-employing heretic. OK, he’s not in the right place on culture war issues, for them, but given the rethug lineup, that should not, in all good conscience, be a problem for them. :P
Peterr @ 38
That is unbelievable!
Brisingamen @ 48
There is a solar eclipse on September 11th. That’s a sign.
hackworth >
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin
peanutbutter @ 45
Who said anything about blasting away? That most effective cop you speak of has to know that when shooting that weapon is necessary, she or he is going to hit what she or he is aiming at — and that comes with practice, practice, practice.
Paintballs are a poor substitute.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
so he’s skipping out on the debate in New Hampshire
he’s dissing NH
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
So FREDERICK OF HOLLYWOOD has finally declared, eh?
I was going to say this is OT but with these fuckers it never is. I just got this as an email, I apologize for the length.
Here is an awesome read that hits the hammer on the head and drives it into the framework of our country;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Burning the Law in a Riot of Treason
>> By William Rivers Pitt
>> Monday 27 August 2007
>>
>> As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both
>> instances, there’s a twilight where everything remains seemingly
>> unchanged,
>> and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air,
>> however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
>> – Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
>>
>> The departure of Alberto Gonzales from the Attorney General’s Office
>> brings America to a place of definitions, and hanging in the balance is
>> the
>> very idea of the nation itself. The basic concepts and fundamental
>> principles of our republic now stand as the only legitimate
>> considerations
>> going forward, for they have been tested almost to annihilation already,
>> and
>> will not endure much longer if we continue on this path.
>>
>> It is the mythology within the Declaration of Independence we speak
>> of,
>> the fiction that tells us we are endowed with rights, and that those
>> rights
>> are unalienable. This falsehood has been vividly exposed in the last
>> several
>> years, and it has been a harsh lesson indeed. All the rights we hold dear
>> and believe to be our greatest strength are, in fact, only words on old
>> paper with neither force nor power. The next line – “That to secure these
>> rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers
>> from the consent of the governed” – is the muscle behind the myth, the
>> core
>> that has endured a withering assault.
>>
>> Matters are so much worse than our national political dialogue lets
>> on.
>> The resignation of Gonzales has unleashed a torrent of hard words and
>> harsh
>> criticisms aimed at the deplorable nature of his tenure, but the truth of
>> it
>> continues to elude mention. They call Gonzales an incompetent, a crony, a
>> loyalist, a disgrace, leaving off the one word necessary to fully explain
>> who he is, and what he was engaged in before he stepped down.
>>
>> Alberto Gonzales is a traitor. That is the only word to explain it.
>>
>> He is not the only one; there are many more traitors like him in the
>> Bush administration, criminals joined in an act of treason so vast and
>> comprehensive that it beggars comparison. Nothing quite like this has
>> ever
>> before been attempted in America, and if they are allowed to succeed,
>> there
>> will be nothing of what defines America left to be seen.
>>
>> Gonzales and his Bush administration collaborators have committed
>> their
>> treason against the rule of law itself, a crime so absolute that it is
>> technically not illegal. There is no code, ordinance or law specifically
>> forbidding the total ruination of all our rights and protections; the act
>> is
>> neither felony nor misdemeanor, because nobody ever considered the
>> black-letter necessity of making it illegal to destroy the rule of law.
>>
>> But there is no America without that rule of law – no rights, no
>> protections, no Constitution; there is nothing, and if you destroy the
>> rule
>> of law, you destroy the idea that is America itself. The only word for a
>> crime like that is treason, and those who would dare commit it are
>> traitors.
>> Gonzales and his Bush administration collaborators have done more than
>> dare.
>> They have been pursuing it, with deliberation and intent, throughout each
>> moment of their tenure.
>>
>> Their treason is not in the actual crimes they have committed, but in
>> the way they have chosen to avoid accountability for them. Their treason
>> is
>> not their refusal to obey the Freedom of Information Act, but in their
>> insistence that they are above the application of that law. Their treason
>> is
>> not in their refusal to obey subpoenas from Congress, but in their claim
>> that they are above the laws behind those subpoenas. Their treason is not
>> that they fired United States attorneys and then refused to come clean
>> about
>> it, but that they decimated the impartiality of the Department of Justice
>> and turned the rule of law into another partisan weapon. Their treason is
>> not the NSA surveillance of Americans, but their steadfast refusal to
>> submit
>> to the governing laws and the requirement of oversight.
>>
>> When George W. Bush asserted a claim of Executive Privilege that made
>> him and his administration immune to all laws and oversight, that was an
>> act
>> of treason because it shattered the rule of law. When Dick Cheney
>> asserted
>> that the Office of the Vice President was not part of the Executive
>> Branch,
>> because he did not want to obey the laws requiring him to hand over
>> official
>> documents to the Archives, that was an act of treason because it
>> shattered
>> the rule of law. When Alberto Gonzales chose to surrender the
>> independence
>> of the Department of Justice so he could protect those assertions, that
>> was
>> an act of treason because it shattered the rule of law.
>>
>> Americans have only the rights they are able to protect and defend.
>> Our
>> rights are nothing more than ideas; only theory and argument on parchment
>> all too easily burned to ashes. The power of those rights is only found
>> in
>> our collective submission to the rule of law, and submission to that rule
>> of
>> law is all that stands between our freedoms and the conflagration of
>> tyranny. Without the rule of law, there is no America.
>>
>> That is the treason of Alberto Gonzales, and the treason of the Bush
>> administration entire. They have attacked and undercut the rule of law by
>> refusing to submit to it, and in doing so have brought us to the edge of
>> appalling infamy. Theirs is a crime without peer, and we will be
>> fortunate
>> beyond measure if we are able to recover from it.
>>
>> The fact that Alberto Gonzales has left is meaningless in the main,
>> because the treason he participated in continues in his absence. If the
>> damage is to be repaired, he must be replaced by someone who will submit
>> to
>> the main imperative, someone who will submit to the rule of law, someone
>> with real independence and unbending respect for the idea that is
>> America.
>> Gonzales must not be replaced by another crony or yes-man, because
>> Americans
>> have only those rights we can protect and defend, and another traitor in
>> that lofty post is no protection at all.
>>
>> Gonzales was more than a poor steward of this trust. He was a traitor
>> among traitors. If the rule of law is to stand, the treason he helped
>> commit
>> must be ended, and a patriot must take his place.
>>
>>
>> ——————————————————————————–
>>
>> William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times and internationally
>> bestselling
>> author of two books: “War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn’t Want You to
>> Know”
>> and “The Greatest Sedition Is Silence.” His newest book, “House of Ill
>> Repute: Reflections on War, Lies, and America’s Ravaged Reputation,”
OT – I’m still so happy to see Kenneth Foster and his daughter, Nydesha. Jane and all of you who called on his behalf, you get to sleep the sweet sleep of someone who has fought for a just cause.
I’ve been lucky enough to know this sleep, and I wish you a wonderful evening of dinner and wine and happiness. Cheers to all of you and especially to Nydesha.
Brisingamen @ 48
Do you want us all to stay up with you that night?
Suggestions re: habeas corpus or death?
How about “Give me liberty or give me death!”
Anyone willing to stand up and say THAT would resemble not just P.Henry but the volunteers of “the greatest generation”. I agree with an earlier poster who characterized voluntary surrender of HC as [national] suicide; the nation we’ve been and defended, would / will no longer exist.
looseheadprop @ 55
Watch out for that Law & Order marathon.. maybe Murdoch will buy the syndication rights to help sell his candidacy
looseheadprop @ 55
*spew*
Oh well, it was an old keyboard . . .
Peterr @ 53
From this snippet you didn’t retain:
(emphasis added). There’s a lot more to being a cop than a quick draw. A lot more. In any case, hot spots such as LA, NYC etc aside, most cops won’t draw their weapons while on duty for their careers. It really isn’t like it’s shown on tee vee…
Gore in 08. He’d clean HRC’S clock and make the rest of the field look like fish gasping for air in a polluted stream.
He owes no favors to the Clintons after 2000, he’s smarter and more principled than any republican anywhere; hell probably more than most progressives too.
I suspect that his first act would be to drag us out of Iraq while explaining that if they “follow us here” we’ve certainly given law enforcement all the tools (and more) that they’ll ever need to track’em down. Then he’ll let the republicans that know he’ll keep the hookers safe, make public restrooms free cruising zones for them and refuse to talk to the idiot bastard evangelicals while talking to people who matter, like the heads of state of countries we need to reach an understanding with to maintain peace in the world.
Well, a Fish can dream,
rightcorrect?Peterr said:
(my italics)
Mind-boggling.
(we’re going to have to invent some more synonyms for un-f-ing-be-liev-able)
So who does Freddy hurt more? Rudy or Romney?
What’s making us safer Hill? Is the the domestic wiretapping? It can’t be that our ports and borders are secure, because they’re not. Did inflaming the ME with a war on the wrong country make us safer? Did fracturing a secularly governed country into semi-autonomous zones ruled by Islamic Fundamentalist warlords help make us safer? Did committing thousands of our troops and National Guard to the occupation help make us safer? Christ Hills, that’s some real crap you are spouting.
I just wish Jane would give us the answer already. Or is she testing us?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 39
Can you persuade them that NOT being hard enough on them is why they’re so f***ing lame?
Blub @ 60
No, by law, at a certain cut off date the L&O ’s with him in it have to be pulled.
peanutbutter @ 62
(emphasis added). There’s a lot more to being a cop than a quick draw. A lot more. In any case, hot spots such as LA, NYC etc aside, most cops won’t draw their weapons while on duty for their careers. It really isn’t like it’s shown on tee vee…
(Wordpress cut out the middle stuff, not me.)
I’ve known many cops, and they agree that it isn’t like television — but they would be the first to echo what that range instructor said: “You are not going to be as sharp or as good, especially if an emergency situation comes up,” said Sgt. James MacGillis, range master for the Milwaukee police. “The better-trained officer is the one that is less likely to use force.”
If you don’t practice, under as close to real conditions as possible, then when that once-in-a-career moment comes, they won’t be as ready for it as they ought to be.
And if this weren’t the case, then the military could say a ton of money by using paintball guns for training, rather than live ammo.
Jane Hamsher @ 8
Actually, it’s not that hard.
Some of the things that this administration did after 9/11 are things that ANY administration would have done — common-sense things about air safety, etc. Those things have made us safer.
This administration also has done things that NO other administration would have done [insert issue of choice here]. Those things have put us in greater danger.
See?
looseheadprop @ 69
I’d like to think so, but I remember they were airing an Arnie Marathon two weeks before the last election day here in Cali
Peterr,
I can’t take credit for the Frederick of Hollywood line.
Howie Klien sent it to me in an email.
Use it, every time.
From gorillasguides
Electricity Bombing Campaign
Yeah, that war.
Blub @ 72
Arni? Was it a federal election?
tejanarusa @ 68
E-x-a-c-t-l-y. Someone needs to tell those bastards that the too are a bit threadbare in the “emperor’s clothing” sense as well as is Preznit Brainless.
Just because the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate think they (Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer et al) have “leadership” qualities, does not make it true.
looseheadprop @ 75
Schwarzenegger for governor…
looseheadprop @ 75
California governor recall, and then Arnold’s reelection. State elections.
Peterr @ 70
That’s quite true. Remember I said I was of mixed feelings about this. I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all for cops to shift focus away from guns guns guns guns. They really need lots of practice with other stuff as well and maybe this would force some good creative stuff down. I’m just sayin’.
(And I’ve known a lot of cops too.)
Brisingamen @ 48
[[[[[[brisingamen]]]]]]]]
Will that help? IF all of us think of you at the appropriate time, perhaps. Whatever we can do to be helpful…
And please do be sure not to zap yourself in the process!” Take all the time you need…but hurry! [G]
Jon Soltz tells it like it is…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..ostComment
Here’s the short form:
Themis, Lady who sees clearly despite your blindfold,
Themis, who balances all deeds to weigh out whether they are wrong or right,
Themis, Lady whose shining sword cuts through all that would obscure,
Deal with those who hold their oaths so cheap, that they harm those who placed the government in their hands.
George W. Bush — in Themis sight I name thee — Oathbreaker,
Richard Cheney — in Themis sight I name thee — Oathbreaker,
May the Furies hunt and hound you from now until the Sun dies, may you roll a boulder up Hades hills and never reach the summit, and may you ever thirst and never be quenched!
By my will, so mote it be!
For anyone wondering why the Dems need to fight hard: SF Chronicle
Just an observation: Bush always looks like he has a load in his pants. Pelosi and Reid flanking Bush at the big table looked like they had just sh*t themselves.
looseheadprop @ 55
*spew*
A classic!!
Chris Bowers’ opinion of what is probably the best outcome from this mess..
The money will almost certainly be appropriated, and another 1.5% of our gross national income will be sent to Iraq. We sent along another 0.7% back in May, and the DoD appropriations bill sent another 3.5% indirectly to Iraq. That makes a running total 5.7% of our gross national income spent on Iraq and the military so far this year. This is simply not sustainable. Among other things, the Soviet Empire’s war in Afghanistan destroyed the Soviet Empire. The longer we keep sending 5-6% of our national income down the Iraq sinkhole, the more likely it becomes for the Iraq war to destroy us. We need to get these votes, but it is a task I am not particularly optimistic about at this time. Another blank check it probably on the way. Perhaps a better strategy is to figure out how, in 2008, to punish those who allowed it to happen, and end the working conservative majority.
If we can get indictments and prosecutions after 01/20/09, the Country might have a chance.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1074
Blub @ 77
Ahh. I was thinking of a TV show from the 70’s called Arnie. I don’t know much about California election law. but federal Election law has black out periods for things like that
scott @ 59
looseheadprop @ 58
If you wish — but you can light a candle just before the eclipse and ask that justice be done too…
peanutbutter @ 79
I have never used a paintball gun. Does it have recoil like a real gun? It’s controlling the recoil that you have to learn. That’s how you hit the target well.
This fucking war. This fucking goddamn war.
AZ Matt @ 83
For anyone wondering why the Dems need to fight hard:
may they rest in peace and ne’er be forgotten
looseheadprop @ 73
Sounds like good framing to me, whoever thought it up.
tejanarusa @ 88
a.) Distracted by shopping malls full of sale-priced chinese goods with designer labels?
b.) I got mine so screw you?
I understand some of the caution. After all, a large part of the electorate actually thinks that John Wayne was a major hero; that “there you go again” characterized a great communicator; that a 6th century philosophy could threaten the existence of the U.S.; that there is some way to prevent another terrorist action in the country indefinitely; that Bush was the great terror preventor; and the John Kerry issued himself medals in Viet Nam. Moreover, they prefer simply answers to complexities and nuances. The like smokin em outa their holes and don’t much care for foreign terms, like habeus corpus. Maybe “have the body” would work better.
looseheadprop @ 87
And the fed law is why Ronnie Ray-guns movies disappeared during election seasons in ‘76, ‘80, and ‘84.
Even Bedtime For Bonzo, biographical though it seemed to be.
wow.. just read an article about the Craig fiasco.. does Idaho really have a governor named Butch Otter??? Oh boy.. they’re going to have fun with this one, on SNL
Brisingamen @ 82
Themis is certainly the right choice, goddess (or was it titan?) of law, custom and order. Judges were once considered the servants of Themis.
Doesn’t pissing off Themis bring retribution from Nemisis? or am I confused?
By the way, very pretty and hopefully, powerfulBrisingamen @ 89
I got candles.
daCascadian,
Your quotes at the ends of your comments are wonderful. I meant to copy one yesterday and forgot. Anyway, keep them coming, please, they’re an inspiration.
Elliott @ 92
Amen… in tribute…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G1FvlPakkU
In answer to the “repeal habeas or we’ll all die” statement, what ever happened to “Give me liberty, or give me death”?
Is that not simple enough an answer? Does that not have some basic resonance for Americans??
I’m hearing it’s hot in Cali today. After growing up in Sacto, I’m thinking about the ice cold waters of the American River. My formative years, and some beyond, were spent on the banks of that river. That was when the only bridge across that wonderful river was the Old Fair Oaks Bridge. We used to dive off it almost everyday in summer. Does anyone know if that bridge is still there?
Did you say… defend our country?
We didn’t didn’t defend our country, we attacked a sovereign country which was not a threat to this nation.
We have yet to hear a clear rational position articulated suported by facts reason which explains why we attacked Iraq.
looseheadprop @ 90
No, a paintball gun is nothing like a real gun.
The point is that a lot of stuff can be dealt with on a cop’s beat without using a gun. And in fact most cops never draw a gun in the first place. So perhaps an increased emphasis on other ways to resolve conflicts and work with people would be a good thing. I can at least dream. Instead in reality most departments won’t be able to unclutch themselves from the Big Bad Tee Vee Cop Image and resort to absolute absurdities like paintball practice.
That said, tactics and strategies absolutely can and should be practiced, don’t need guns, and I remember not a few pretty cool sessions where recruits were taught how to search and canvass urban areas. Cops also just need to hit the freaking gym and get into condition; if they were coaxed into that, it’d do a world of good. We routinely out ran, and ran down cops during our training sessions. We were in shape, they weren’t.
Also, I’d say 85% of the cops I knew, actively worked out ways to avoid having to do any more than their absolute alloted minimum monthly gunpractice (they had to fire so many rounds a month, I forget what it was).
Aaaaanyway, this is getting rather OT. And police departments should have access to the ammunition they do need. It’s just that…I see this huge possible silver lining of all the other qualities that cops should have, finally getting a bit more attention. But probably just a pipedream.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
yep.. pedestrian bridge now, on the Natioanal historical register
Mmm, going offline in a few, so if I don’t respond to your comment it isn’t anything more than that and I apologize in advance if I appear to ignore anything directed at me. See y’all around later!
AZ Matt
Clovis is just outside Fresno, represented by Devin Nunes (R-Visalia). After he took a trip to Iraq this spring, he posted the following, dated May 2007:
I wonder if he is still “satisfied that our leaders have a plan to deal with the violence in Iraq.” I also wonder if he’s been to that cemetery in Clovis, where Tony Butterfield and his friends are buried.
Blub @ 105
Kool. ;0)
looseheadprop @ 87
What is it with Frederick of Hollywood? He is horrid in Law & Order. He is horrid in every role I have seen him in. Rip Torn is a great character actor; Thompson is a third rate character actor at best, not a “star”. Jeebus, Frederick of Hollywood makes Ronnie Raygun, and that other famous Republican star, Gopher from Love Boat, look like freaking Laurence Olivier.
Swopa,
You’ve identified one of the most vexing issues facing Democrats today. And guess what? Georgie-boy is using this as a wedge issue, to drive a wedge between the DLC-Blue Dog coalition and the progressive wing of the party. Your post is also a fitting sequel to the earlier post on Rahm Emmanuel’s fear tactics.
But I think Swopa’s solution may be too nuanced. Yes, I agree intellectually with Swopa’s argument. But it is too complicated for voters to get on a visceral level.
The simple thing that is registering on the public is that they hear the Democrats talking tough on the war, but then they give the Preznit everything he wants for the war. They fold and get rolled. Same deal on the awful Lieberman resolution on Iran. Does that look “strong”? Or does it look like, “Oh, me too! Please, Mr. Preznit, let us give you more money!”
I think Democrats can convey an image of strength by pushing back against the Preznit, and saying “NO!” The gut-check issue is not supporting the troops, but being able to stand up to an out of control president and VP. The public looks at the pitiful performance by the Dems, and they think, golly, the Dems can’t even stand up to Bush. Why should we think they can stand up to Al Qaeda?”
The DLC-Rahm Emmanuel crowd is killing Dem chances in 2008.
Bob in HI
LHP — I picked Themis because of the goings-on at the Justice Department, and because GWB and Cheney gave their oaths to one of Her servants — The Chief Justice of the United States.
Hmm, I’d forgotten Nemisis…have to do a little more research when I get home.
As to getting zapped — all energy you invest in a spell returns to you three-fold — so if you’re asking for Justice and you’ve done something wrong, you can bet it’s going to come home to roost.
Badreporter cartoon on Craig!
Fiore on NOLA health care
Yep- brings to mind a lot of the discussion from Drew Westen’s The Political Brain.
“Our side” needs to get smart enough to use the right soundbites, and get over its aversion to working the media.
CTuttle @ 100
oh man.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 102
that’s interesting OKK, I’ve been down that river a couple of times. Don’t know about the bridge tho
Jane Hamsher @ 8
That’s great news! The ACLU has been great this year. They are being real leaders in this fight.
Bob in HI
Brisingamen @ 82
Oooh, I like it!
OT?..Where are they going to get the troops?
The US military is ready to intervene in southern Iraq to quell any unrest as British forces prepare to pull out from their last base in the oil port of Basra, the Pentagon says.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/sto…..020128.htm
Elliott @ 115
It’s only a short way up river from the Sunrise Bridge. ;0)
Jesterfox @ 23
Now THERE’s a moniker we can use. Let’s start using it, early and often!!!
Bob in HI
“The DLC-Rahm Emmanuel crowd is killing Dem chances in 2008.”
These imitation Democrats are killing the party.
AZ Matt @ 26
Good idea, but Bush will veto it.
Bob in HI
Oklahoma kiddo @ 119
:)
CTuttle @ 81
Worth reading. Why, oh why, can’t the people with the power to impeach see (long, long list of)the impeachment-worthy crimes? REading this almost had me in tears.
albert fall @ 36
I like this idea.
Jane Hamsher @ 8
“Hillary has asserted that she thinks we’re safer now than we were before 9/11 so that would be quite a backtrack.”
“If you want total security, go to prison. There you’re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking… is freedom.” Dwight David Eisenhower
I’m fed up with the liars, fear-mongers,war-mongers, and power hungry parasites on both sides of the aisle. They’re all millionaires living off the taxpayer dole and headed toward corporate jobs in the end to screw us some more. I want presidential candidates that haven’t sold their souls and promised ours to corporate interests.
An article in which Brits say they will be blamed for America’s chaotic withdrawal:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag…..hor_id=248
looseheadprop @ 35
How about if Brisingamen confines them to your circle, after taking their blackberrys away?
Bob in HI
tejanarusa @ 124
Earlier today Redshift suggested a mock impeachment trial. I think it’s s great idea.
Get the likes of Elizabeth Holtzman to set it up and then broadcast it all over. Air the charges.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 121
Yeah, verily.
If it’s up to them, we’ll all be taking tea-bagging lessons from Lynne Cheney and lying lessons from Abu Gonzales, ’cause that’s what it takes to survive in the DLC Brave New World of the “Moderate, Serious Personage”. Oh, just shoot me now.
9/11 changed everything ya know, maybe even Larry Craig’s sexual orientation (hey, that’s the only card he hasn’t played yet).
LS @ 127
tragic but true
Votus @ 5
Well….maybe they can’t actually be recalled but…
We could mount a drive to do so. I’m sure the ACLU, MoveOn and others would be interested. This could fit in with the ‘Bush Dog’ campaign.
It would be a good way to educate low-info voters on the left at the very least and it hits these spineless aristocrats of the Congress right where it hurts…
In the gut.
albert fall @ 36
You can use Wikispaces for that purpose. That’s where I set up the Priming the Pump website. Its user-friendly. If you can handle FDL, you can handle Wikispaces.
Bob in HI
Elliott @ 131
I was telling Siun the other day, that Saigon ‘75 is a very real possibility for the Green Zone…!!! 8-(
Someone is calling me outback for a swim. She wants to tell me about the bobcat she saw drinking out of the pool early this morning. Our pool is open, and bordered on three sides by cow pastures. And you can see almost forever in almost any direction. Due south about thirty miles is Texas. Two miles west it’s the Red River. North twenty miles is the Navajo and Washita mountains. To the east; nothing but farms. Life is good.
1,584 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
“The belief here is that Americans are starving for a Democrat who screams his or her head off about what’s going on…”
Right on, brother kiddo, right fuckin on!!! I just wish that Edwards would crank it up and realize that his only chance is to take the gloves off right now and blow Obama and Mrs. Clinton outta the water in Iowa. Don’t worry about bein’ called shrill, don’t worry about national sound bites or New Hampshire…call a spade a shovel and go after the Nazis in the Democratic Party startin with Mrs. Clinton.
Sigh…fat chance! I surely do wish Big Al would announce the same strategy on Labor Day but I think the Gestapo has him snookered with the pending charges against his son.
KEEP THE FAITH, THERE IS ONLY GOOD AND EVIL…THERE ARE NO “LESSERS” ANYMORE!!
Uh-oh — did I bust the margins up there? Don’t remember quoting multiple comments? Anyone know what happened? Mods? Something to not do again?
What I don’t think the Dems fully realize is the sort of marketing that the `pugs have been doing over many years. They are branding themselves and cross-branding with the religious right.
That branding has pushed several themes–GOP is the “strong” party. GOP is the “fiscal responsibility” party. GOP is the party with “ideas.”
That they could control Congress for twelve years and get a twisted fraud like Bush elected President twice says a lot about how effective they’ve been at that branding exercise.
And yet, revealing what the GOP has actually done–raped the Treasury, moved wealth upwards to their friends, destroyed civil rights and voting rights, etc.–is the surest way to destroy the GOP brand as it has been created over the past couple of decades.
Dems ought to be showing the public the ways in which the GOP, when in control, stole their money and gave it to its cronies.
I’d combine that with Dem ads using the GOP brand prominently, say, a pickpocket with the red/white/blue logo on his hand, removing someone’s wallet with a voice-over of the results of investigations into contract irregularities.
Investigate, investigate, investigate, and then use the results in combination with the GOP brand.
If Dems don’t destroy the GOP brand, what they do positively won’t have the desired effect.
New thread…
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..o/#respond
I’m going to post this on this thread so as not to go off topic above, but this should be looked into. A week ago, I heard 2 commentators on Bloomberg financial news that there have been some curious put options. This diarist at Kos has a story about these strange options…something’s up folks:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/26/16409/4538
Elliott @ 129
Elizabeth de la Vega has already written the script.
Bob in HI
The trouble with the Bush administration is that they all have a wide stance- to keep their pants from SLIDING ya know when they drop em…
Yes, the noble and way more effective message by some of these all-too-accomodating Democratic candidates and strategists wiould be:
* Shredding the Constitution is not protecting America.
* Sending thousands of our young people to die in a needless war is not protecting America.
And maybe I’m nuts, but I never understood why John Kerry didn’t aggressively go after W for letting 9/11 happen on his watch. The “up is down” bullshit bout Bush and the Repubs being strong against terrorism is a joke, and could be slapped down with a little reminder about “My Pet Goat”, and the “Bid Laden Determined to Strike” memo.
Historical fact: President Bush did NOT protect America against the deadliest terrorist attack ever to reach American soil. He and his entire gang of neo-conservative fabulists failed the entire country. Miserably.
Think of it this way: We all live in New Orleans!
With all due respect, the response you posit is kinda weak.
The better response:
“Defending Habaes Corpus is why hundreds of thousands died fighting to create and defend our our Constitution and country in the first place.”
The guy – THE GUY – who has the requisite high public profile and charisma to say this… is Al Gore. And I’m dying to see him do it.
Come on Al! You can be a forceful advocate for this very worthy cause too! Especially if you’re really not running.
What are you waiting for?
It’s simple:
We need a President who can protect the country and the Constitution.
That’s what elected officers swear to do, isn’t it? Every time they say they can’t protect the country without shredding the Constitution, they’re saying they’re incapable of upholding their own oaths of office.
We need candidates who protect the country and the Constitution.
Here’s a suggestion:
“If you insist on a false binary choice between fighting terrorism or keeping our liberties, we’ll take our chances with the terrorists.”
montag @ 18
I disagree.
Dubya, do your job and protect us as well as protecting all our other rights, including Habeas.
If you can’t stand the heat, go back to Texas.
RockPaperScizzors @ 126
Of course, there are some small things which are significant. But, once the supposed enemy knows the routes that are blocked they may consider other ways to do damage.
What I wonder if how well the government actually knows who our enemy may be. Despite their incompetence and such, they still probably know a lot that isn’t public. Do they really buy into the 9/11 commission story or are they working on another premise. Is it true, as former AG John Ashcroft asserted, that the war on terrorism is over?
So, I don’t know that Hillary is wrong, but it’s hardly the big picture she was referring to.
Who is the enemy?
Where are they?
How do we go about winning?
If we can’t directly win, can we survive?
As I’ve been saying for longer than I like to remember, someone needs to stand up and say, “The way George Bush has gone about defending this country is the wrong way.”
And that’s exactly what John Edwards has been saying…for months…arguing that the Congress should send bills with timelines back to Bush over and over..that the “war on terror” phrase is bogus, that we are not safer now…etc.
But the MSM, dazed and confused (on purpose?) by hillary and Barack, hasn’t reported, and the netroots are divided…and…over the brink we go…again??
say it ain’t so!
RIGHT! SO TURN OFF THE TV AND READ!
lauren @ 150
Lotta things bug me about Swopa’s post. Perhaps the principal one is this: “The timidity of too many Democrats in the face of the Orwell Bush administration’s never-ending fear tactics . . . .”
Orwell was, at worst, a visionary poet who wrote an allegory and a social-science fiction novel each depicting a horrifying hell the roads to which are paved with the best of intentions. If you ever bothered to read Down and Out in Paris and London, you’d not imagine that Orwell would ever care to run an administration. He warned us. We got distracted by bling and short senteces and lost his message. Please don’t demonize him by association with his realized villains.
Swopa’s point about the need for desperate action NOW is quite rtight, but niether of the “prominent” democratic candidates seems inclined for that kind of risk or exertion. So f- the campaign fund issue (it’s NOT the money), and, as a corollary, f- the MSM. For the rest of us now, the alternaives that present themselves are 1) run like hell or 2) [reluctant to print this in a public space].
Oh, and I really do agree with lauren 150, especially its suggestion that we look beyond “hillary and Barack.” Edwards is a start.
By the way, why do people laugh at the suggestion of support for Kucinich? Is it ’cause he’s short? Or ’cause they’re still mesmerised by the “electable” fairy tale (four years after electable Kerry)?
They know one is on; and they know it’s creation was based on bullshit and koolaid.
But they don’t know how to start ending it.
It’s not so much that they’re confused, it’s just that there’s not going to be a “good ending” for this, no matter who wins the presidency.
That’s how fucked up it was for asshole to order the invasion.
Now it’s just a matter of finding out which one of the democratic candidates has the political honesty and courage to speak that truth to the american people.
The other question I keep waiting for Democrats to ask, every time the wingnuts claim to be the fountainhead of anti-terrorist wisdom: “Where’s Bin Laden?”
Swopa says, “As I’ve been saying for longer than I like to remember, someone needs to stand up and say, ‘The way George Bush has gone about defending this country is the wrong way.’”
More to the point: “George Bush is not defending the country, he’s defending his own rear end.”
How long will it take before we Americans admit that “our” politicians and our political system no longer represent the American citizens?
We are about to start another “preemptive” war. A war that we can not afford and cannot “win” in traditional terms. We cannot occupy Iran as we are occupying Iraq. We don’t have the military forces to do it.
Republicans and dems alike are forcing a self fulfilling prophesy on the world. Whacking hornet’s nests with a stick and having the corporate paid pundits then publicly postulating as to why there are hornets trying to sting us.
“See! we told you so! Those people want to hurt us!”
They despise our freedom fries. Yeah, that’s the ticket…
Cause and effect, witness the self fulfilling prophesy of the new world order.
Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that we have decimated their country, their infrastructure, their government, their industry and most important , their people.
After all, that’s no reason to be upset. We’re nation building those brown heathen’s out of the stone age..they should be grateful.
More and more it seem that the “politicians” are hell bent on bringing about world war 3 so they can see Jesus land his holy spaceship and take them all away to heaven where they can live happily ever after as their reward for being pillars of christian virtue and morality.