Rumor has it that the GOP is busily shoving Sen. Larry Craig out the door (H/T Howie) and simultaneously trying to wedge him back into a closet somewhere (H/T Pam). (Nothing like some video scrubbing among pals [H/T Atrios], is there?)
That didn’t take long, did it?
Whatever happens — resignation, retirement, a stubborn need to run again for a seat that the GOP needs to hold in a primary that is bound to be uuuuuuugly if that happens — one thing is very clear: this isn’t getting better any time soon for Sen. Craig or for the GOP-in-denial (Sen. McConnell’s office, for example, claims they heard about the Craig arrest and guilty plea just yesterday afternoon. Failure to accept responsibility or cover-up, you decide.). From Cillizza’s The Fix:
This story seems likely to up the ante on retirement although Democrats cautioned Monday that Craig is notoriously stubborn and might just try and see this thing through.
Craig’s ability to weather this storm depends on what else comes out in the coming days. The Roll Call story was devastating, although Craig did seek to push back on it in his hometown paper, arguing that he never should have pleaded guilty to a charge of disorderly conduct in a mens bathroom in Minneapolis airport.
As of this writing rumors continued to swirl about other revelations regarding Craig that are set to emerge. If the story continues to grow beyond what has been reported, it would be difficult for Craig to hold on no matter what he wants to do.
A quickie guilty plea is odd behavior for an elected official, I have to say — normally, you see someone fight tooth and nail on something like this, or a very contrite and immediate public apology and PR festival (see Vitter, David). I am wondering what other shoes may drop on this subject in the days to come. It seems I’m not alone (via DKos):
The arrest at a Minnesota airport prompted Craig to plead guilty to disorderly conduct earlier this month. His June 11 encounter with the officer was similar to an incident in a men’s room in a Washington, D.C., rail station described by a Washington-area man to the Idaho Statesman. In that case, the man said he and Craig had sexual contact.
The Minnesota arrest was first reported Monday by Roll Call, a Capitol Hill newspaper.
In an interview on May 14, Craig told the Idaho Statesman he’d never engaged in sex with a man or solicited sex with a man. The Craig interview was the culmination of a Statesman investigation that began after a blogger accused Craig of homosexual sex in October. Over five months, the Statesman examined rumors about Craig dating to his college days and his 1982 pre-emptive denial that he had sex with underage congressional pages.
The most serious finding by the Statesman was the report by a professional man with close ties to Republican officials. The 40-year-old man reported having oral sex with Craig at Washington’s Union Station, probably in 2004. The Statesman also spoke with a man who said Craig made a sexual advance toward him at the University of Idaho in 1967 and a man who said Craig “cruised” him for sex in 1994 at the REI store in Boise. The Statesman also explored dozens of allegations that proved untrue, unclear or unverifiable.
As the surrounding layers of facts become more and more murky, the one thing that is crystal clear to me is that there are a whole lot of questions — years worth – swirling around Sen. Craig. And that we should expect his need to retire and spend time with his family at some point, unless his famous stubborn streak kicks into high gear.
Does private behavior matter when it comes to public officials? It’s a question that has been asked for as long as there have been politicians, for which there are no clear-cut answers (this article from a Jacksonville paper [H/T to Equality Florida for the find] is a good start). However, when you mix in hypocrisy on the very issue for which questions are raised, that adds a whole new dimension to the conversation. There are a whole host of yet to be answered questions lurking out there on Sen. Craig – and the answers to them always have a way of coming out.



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Christy!
It’s the soon-to-famous Wide Stance Defense that is sure to save him.
BADA BING!
Here we go today…
Spend more time with his family…
Good one Christy.
deleted by author–already in Christy’s post above.
Good morning Christy!
may we all have a moment of silent prayer ,while god strikes all they hipocrite Down.
Thank-you
Christy, in Craig’s response to all this yesterday, he said “I should have had the advice of counsel in resolving this matter. In hindsight, I should not have pled guilty. I was trying to handle this matter myself quickly and expeditiously.”
It’s sounds like he’s saying he lied in court when he said to the judge, “Yes, I admit that I did it.” I can’t imagine that this would go down well with the judge. Would a statement like this jeopardize Craig’s probation?
A piece of information that we badly need to analyze these races is the primary filing deadlines by state. I don’t know how much time there is left to put another gooper in the primary. Anyone have a resource for this?
Me to my five-year old daughter:
“Now sweetie, the strangers you really have to be careful around wear blue three-piece suits with red ties. And if you see a little elephant pin on their tie, scream and run like hell.”
I read that his wife and her children live in Chicago..if true, isn’t that a little odd?
GOP = hyprocrisy & corruption R-Us
Speaking just for myself, I’d much prefer beating these hypocritical rogue reprobates on the issues. I have a feeling most of us feel this way. Craig really is a disgusting piece of bathroom trash. This individual should be sent where he belongs and apparently where he longs to be. Down the toilet.
Hi Christy!
Steve-AR, were you the one saying something’s coming out re: Mitch McConnell?
Glory, glory, holy lube-job.
The Caligula Party will rebound, God is on their side.
-GSD
From Salon today:
I think it safe to say, based on the GOP record in these matters, that there are more “Craigs” in Congress. They just haven’t been exposed. Yet.
a post from downstairs…needs people to notice
perris @ 105
‘Mornin’, GSD.
rwcole @ 9
According to the Idaho page at Politics1.com, the Idaho deadline is March 2008. You can follow a link there to the ID Sec of State’s office, and they say it is 5PM on March 21, 2008.
Sorry, if this 1982 Larry Craig denial video has already been posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RntWGPEjoo
Well, it seems we have a chance at a Democrat pick up, and no pun intended.
Just to be clear, I mean in the Senate, not in the bathroom.
Mornin’ Ron and gang.
-GSD
From the Idaho Statesman:
In Larry Craig’s defense. X-Offender by Blondie.
Hey! Where’s Howie & Blue America?
What’s he got in Idaho???
LS @ 21
that’s been posted and discussed, the main point there is cheney knew with no doubt that he was lying when he said we would be greeted as liberators
he knew with no doubt this was not some simple engagement to go in, get out and be done
he is a liar, he knows he is a liar, these were not “mistakes” he made, he lied to us
Sandman @ 22
so craig is not gonna run for re erection?
do you think he will get a stiff sentence?
do you think they will offer to push in his stool when he’s being interogated?
errr
sorry
perris @ 27
I don’t understand your response..*g*…the video is about Craig not Cheney..am I missing something?
Peterr, Thanks- that gives plenty of time I would think for a challenge.
shooogarp @ 10
I just love it. Apart form that, the Republican’s twisted moral fiber would just make me shake my head if it weren’t for the damage they do.
Idaho is one of the gooperiest states in the nation. The chance of a pickup would seem to depend on this guy bein the gooper candidate.
It’s the hypocrisy, for one. It’s the possible predation on underage people for another. It’s possible misuse of public resources. Other than that, I wouldn’t give a flying donut hole what a congresscritter liked to suck so long as it was on their own time and dollar.
And we hear from one of Craig’s beards:
Elliott @ 14
Just a “pass along” from Howie Klein. Here is the link to his web site DWT.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
LS @ 29
oops…I assumed it was a cheney link, I am sometimes an idiot
Requests to speak to Sen. Craig have been left at his stall in the Senate restroom.
He has not replied to any attempts yet.
-GSD
perris @ 27
Is it me or does this not follow?
Off on the business of the Queen. See everyone later.
Adie @ 26
I don’t know what Howie’s got, but this is what I dug up . . .
The only declared Democratic candidate at this point is Larry LaRocco, an ex-congressman who ran and lost last year for Lt Gov in Idaho. At his LaRocco for Senate website, he says “Larry LaRocco will be back at Daily Kos this Wednesday, August 29, at noon Mountain Time to report on his latest Working for Senate jobs and to take your questions.” He also has a link there to his earlier DKos diaries.
GSD @ 37
In related news, the Tidy Bowl man has decided to come out of the closet.
And between Larry Craig and Alberto Gonzales is not where Repugs wanna be this morn.
Speaking of hypocrisy – is it the policy of FDL to allow vile comments regarding women who have large families?
I refer in particular to the comment last night by Trex about someone “spitting out babies like a lawn sprinkler”, and the running “joke” that “it’s a pu**y not a clown car”.
If this is the case, I must vehemently protest your collective lack of humanity. It is not snark – it’s hate speech.
Come on now, I am sure Larry felt it was easier to plead guilty and register as a sex offender than it was to fight these unfair charges.
I mean who wants to go to Minnesota, possibly in winter, to defend your own honor. After all, the state is run by a republican governor and there is a compliant “loyal Bushie” US Attorney. What could go wrong?
Mr. Craig is very narrow on politics. But he apparently told the policeman who areested him that on other issues he takes a “wide stance”.
perris @ 36
pups have been known to be pretty good with smoke & mirrors, specially when trolls sniffin’ around, but that was creepy for a bit.
u o.k. perris?
Peterr at 40
Thanks!
At this point, a Republican politician being arrested for soliciting sex is about as surprising as Willie Nelson being busted for possession.
1. As long as it’s legal, I’ll take a WIN anyway I can get it. So, I’ll enjoy being down at my watering hole this weekend, and regaling a few of my R team friends with tales of Cruisin’ Craig, and David Whorehouse Vitter. Any way I can shame the R team, I will.
2. By the way, what was Cruisin’ Craig doing in Minnesota? And, I thought there was some sort of “rule” that says a Senator who visits another state must, as a courtesy, inform the “host” Senators?
3. And…speaking of ethics: does this criminal admission violate any sort of Senate ethics rules?
Ghostman
Oklahoma kiddo @ 45
Lahoma know yer out on the toobz unchaparoned, son? *g*
This just goes to show that the GOP really is a big tent party. Everyone is welcome as long as they are willing to pretend to be a conservative, white, christian male. Pass the plunder, please.
It shouldn’t, of course. But when the official chooses to make an issue of private behavior — which Craig and his ilk have done routinely — then the fact that the official is engaging in the very behavior that he or she condemns matters very much. The unspoken implication of such a thing is this: There should be a law against what you do, but I should still be able to do it.
michael vick said he found jesus.
whom does craig find?
Steve-AR @ 35
thanks!
I love the fact that CNN just isn’t giving it a rest.
Ghostman @ 49
Ayyup! Doin’ th’ math. Demo-Derby Yeehaw!
It seems Mr. Craig also suffers from delusions. He told the arresting officer he wasn’t playing footsie in the bathroom stall with the sting-decoy, but that he was bending over to pick up a piece of paper off the floor. Police said the ‘piece of paper’ never existed.
Personally, I don’t care about people’s private behavior. It’s between them and their loved ones, period. But, illegal behavior is a problem in my book. Unethical behavior is also problematic. And hypocritical behavior also deserves to be highlighted. The public has the right to know if their politicians are criminals, unethical, or hypocritical.
Ghostman @ 49
1. Enjoy! Maybe even buy your friends the first round of beer, so they’ll have something to cry in.
2. I don’t think there are very many direct flights from DC to Idaho. I’m guessing that the Distinguished Gentleman from Idaho had a . . . ahem . . . layover . . . at the Minneapolis/St. Paul airport to change planes.
3. I believe there are ethics rules that say something to the effect of “if you are involved in any legal cases as a defendant, you must report these to the ethics committee.” I would think that there is also something ethically murky about telling the judge “I’m guilty” and then telling the world, “no, I’m not.”
peterboy @ 53
jeebus
Larry Craig is giving those of us who live in Minnesota a bad name…*g*
craig was always a particularly pompous and self righteous quote on the news.
he could strut sitting down–comes to mind
Adie @ 50
No… and lets not tell her. ;0)
It’s always funny to me when guys hit on me, are married and say they are straight. landofthefree @ 58
That sums it up for me.
peterboy @ 53
Craig will be “cured” by intense prayer therapy with some conservative televangelist. Works every time…at least with Republic voters.
rwcole @ 9
March 2008 is the filing deadline for a May primary.
I’ve just joined the racetracker wiki and suggested they add this info to all their race pages.
Mornin’ Christy and pups,
Music is a big part of my life.
If a good oldie is playing on the muzak in the mens room, my feet are tappin’.
Yikes, I didn’t know the foot lingo, and may have been giving my stall neighbors fits.
Froomkin picked some week to go on vacation.
Of everyone on the planet, Americans have the largest ecological footprint. Affluent Americans use even more than average.
With irrefutable evidence of global climate change tied directly to personal carbon production, an American who deliberately chooses to have more than two children is inherently hypocritical – begetting life only to destroy the next generations is inherently hypocritical.
I hope everyone loves and nurtures all the babies brought into the world – and their mothers. And the babies’ future grandchildren.
In the US, bringing more than two chldren in the world is the best possible way to kill your American grandchildren – and everyone else’s grandchildren.
LaFourmiRouge @ 43
Sandman @ 22
Really? I thought Idaho was very solidly in conservative Republican hands. Please let me know if my impression is incorrect.
LaFourmiRouge @ 43
Thia place may be too “edgy” for some- Many of us like it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
suppose that it did! eeeewwwwwwww!?!
mui @ 25
LOL! Larry “Wide Stance” Craig’s new campaign song!
Anyone have a running list of the republicans involved in sexual hypocracy from the last 6 years?
There are so many that I’m getting confused. Maybe that is what they want.
OT: this belongs on the last thread, but since we’ve moved on… This NYT piece says the following:
This conflicts, IIRC, with what we heard yesterday, that the president did not accept the resignation until after the dinner on Sunday. Am I misremembering again?
kirk murphy @ 69
Ah Kirk, Blessings!
Sparkles the Iguana @ 68
Yeah. It also hurts that Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are on vacation, too. What interesting shows they would have this week, huh?
I suppose people resign and big scandals break in the dog days of summer for a reason. A lot of people are getting in their final vacations, and won’t tune in for news until after Labor Day.
JF @ 75
Fog of Resignation
cinnamonape @ 73
You think? He just wanted to “perpetrate love” . That’s all.
back at ya, mui!
LaFourmiRouge @ 43
If you think that is hate speech, have you ever listened to Fox News or Rush? Man, that is hate speech!
landofthefree @ 58
I care about a person’s private behavior. I want to know if they are alcoholics, compulsive gamblers, living above the income, beat their wives etc. With the current environment, I also care about their religion. Who would support the appointment of an Evangelical Christian or another Roman Catholic to the SCOTUS. I agree it is un-American to think that way, but it is also un-American to lie during confirmation hearings and deny women choice.
kirk murphy @ 80
And back again at ya!
Roddy McCorley @ 52
Yeah, and this is not so much a matter of private, but rather illegal behaviour. I think we have the right to expect that lawmakers obey the law, and be held accountable when they break it. Given that he has consistently voted to make gay people’s lives more difficult, I say he’s got no one to blame but himself. Call it karma.
JF
Yeah- sounds like what supposedly happened was that Gonzo called Bush and said “I’m outta here” and Bush said- “Don’t say anything about it till ya come down an talk with me”.
I actually think that the whole thing is a fabrication. They planned for Gonzo to leave this week a long time ago.
“A quickie guilty plea is odd behavior for an elected official….”
Not Craig.
He’s a quickie sort of guy.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 68
IIRC, something big happened the last time he went on extended vacation (or perhaps when he was out after his wife gave birth). Can’t remember what it was, though.
Upon returning from vacation yesterday and hearing the news about AGAG, Emptywheel asked rhetorically if Cheney would have resigned if she stayed on vacation a little longer.
JF @ 75
It just shows that they still can’t get their stories straight. They didn’t carefully decide how they were going to sell this one to the public, so they were sloppy with details that contradict. Kinda like Fredo’s congressional testimony.
A few more prurient details about the behavior of our lewd Senator:
Sandman @ 81
one comment doesnt indict everyone who reads or comments here as intolerant.
trex speaks for himself, and sometimes others laugh or ignore.
jayackroyd @ 66
That’s a nice site — thanks for the link!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
I tend to agree except that gay rights is an issue, being a gay reThug is being a hypocrite by definition, and being a hypocrite is an issue.
Perverts who linger in airport bathrooms should be jailed, never mind paying a fine. Any word from the TSA? If it was a Muslim, he would have been treated a whole lot different in that airport bathroom.
It’s not clear just from the Roll Call article exactly what he did that was lewd and lascivious, aside from failing to flush the toilet.
Sure there’s a ton of hypocrisy on Craig’s part, but is he being any more hypocritical than Bill Clinton – a man who supported feminist ideals but was also a serial sexual harrasser?
Peterr @ 87
Upon returning from vacation yesterday and hearing the news about AGAG, Emptywheel asked rhetorically if Cheney would have resigned if she stayed on vacation a little longer.
Time for an FDL fund drive to send Emptywheel to a well-deserved 2 week vacation somewhere far away.
jayackroyd @ 66
kirk murphy @ 69
In order to pay for future Social Security recipients, we either need to birth more babies, or import more immigrants.
JF @ 75
No, they are mis-lying. Again.
When did the Republicans stop being violently anti-blowj*b?
Most likely CNN isn’t giving it a rest because the neocons want him out TODAY.
Adie @ 46
that’s what I get for trying to juggle work with firedog lake
sorry everybody
ReneND @ 74
Cunningham
Haggard
Foley
Stevens
Craig
kirk murphy at 69
Thank you!
I wish I could remember exact quote from recent long interview with the renowned E.O.Wilson.
Something like (paraphrased):
If the rest of the world were using energy at the rate the USA currently is, it would take FOUR complete earths’ – worth of resources to support the activity.
Don’t even think of apologizing to that guy.
He needs to wake up!
fwiw, I’m a mom (of 2), & he better not mess with me!
Cunningham
Haggard
Foley
Stevens
Craig
Vitter
The issue for me is that Mr. Craig was attempting to solicit sex in a public restroom. The gender of the perp or victim doesn’t concern me.
Biodun @ 102
Don’t forget Vitter – but then, his sin is a private matter, and how dare we discuss it.
landofthefree @ 88
That makes sense. Thanks for confirming my memory.
ccmask @ 104
Mitch McConnell
Miss Lindsay Graham
ReneND @ 74
prolly need 2 rolls to list em all, without even sparing a square…
Updated:
Cunningham
Haggard
Foley
Stevens
Craig
Vitter
Robert Allen
bluejeansntshirt @ 67
Yeah! I’ve been wonderin’ what sort of messages that I’ve been sending out while wearing my I-POD…wonder if my frenetic “punk rock” tap means something different from my Tiny Moore Western Swing foot wiggle?
Peterr @ 8
Can’t senators afford to pay for an attorney’s counsel?
perris @ 101
heh heh. ya better proofread that “work” yer doin’, fore ya pass it along… ;->
Biodun @ 89
Let’s see: right foot under the stall to contact cop’s left foot – left hand waved under the stall with the wedding ring, all done with a “wide stance”…
The guy’s a contortionist!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 105
AND that money was involved.
I also like this tidbit:
ccmask @ 110
jeff gannon
Oklahoma kiddo @ 105
I know. That’s just, eugh. Airports are stressful enough without assignations happening in the next stall. This is probably the nightmare of women traveling alone with young sons.
ccmask @ 104
We should also add those like Livingston,
Gingrich, etc. They are also hypocrits when it comes to marriage.
I really think it makes an impact to see it in a long list.(that I can print out)
wtf @ 117
And whoever HE slept with.
There was tiny blurb in the police report posted yesterday (on TPM?).
Something to the effect of “Craig’s criminal record is known.”
Was wondering what that might mean.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 97
change the formula, not more diapers…
wtf @ 117
Rumors of Hastert.
maralenenok @ 118
yes indeed!
Adie @ 72
Craig merely wanted to know if the decoy could “spare a square.”
Regardless of what Senator Pervis Pervington was doing in the bathroom, the fact that he was arrested and didn’t bother to consult a lawyer–by his own admission–is truly bizarre.
Has anybody asked Bush if he’s going to pardon Senator Widestance?
Would love to hear the “whole story” on one of these guys..
He discovers he’s gay during college or somethin- but knows that he wants to go into gooper politics- so he can’t admit it. He needs a “wife an family” so he gets himself one. Not clear if the “wife n family” are told about his other activities..
Then he goes on about his life bashin gays and sayin “Lord, Lord”- and all the while givin blow jobs in public restrooms.
Seems as if it would be worth a movie or two.
Or take away the upper income limit on Soc. Sec. payments
nomolos @ 128
damn commie!
Totally OT…
Miners unearth world’s biggest diamond
· South African find is twice as big as the Cullinan
· Expert predicts feverish bidding on huge stone link
So, when does the GOP issue an apology to Bill Clinton for hounding him to the ends of the earth for his illicit oral pleasurin’?
Chinese coal miners dig their way out of collapsed mine surviving on coal and urine…
If the Utah coal miners were to dig their way out and magically appear- the mine owners would try to re-bury them.
On YouTube Bill Maher and Barney Frank discuss Craig and gay Repugs.
From my hometown paper (in Idaho):
Earlier this year, Craig said he’d wait until September to announce whether he’d run again. Craig declined to be interviewed for this story.
Kobe Bryant had to spend millions on an “I am sorry” diamond ring for his wife, do you think the Repubs do the same thing?
cleter @ 131
Perhaps because the Republics only disapprove of that act when it is performed by heterosexuals.
cinnamonape @ 111
What are the odds of a sitting Senator of Idaho, based in Washington DC, flying out of Minnestota, being in a stall, tapping the code, and the guy next to you not only knows the code, but is an undercover cop? (BTW, read something like this in the comment section last night on HotAir dot com.)
Ed Schultz’s radio show is on CSPAN 1 now, Edwards to appear and Kucinich
Peterr @ 59
I’ll gladly buy the first round; and with a sly smile on my face. “Come hither, my R team lads, tonight we shall discuss the COWARDICE of hypocrisy…”…..sayeth the Ghost spider to the flies.
Ghostman
Ken Mehlman?
ccmask @ 110
The Larry Craig story explains why the GOoPers hate Bill Clinton so much.
When Bill Clinton was getting hummers in the Oval Office, Republicans were giving them in toilet stalls — and sometimes paying for the priviledge.
It’s just not fair — Bill Clinton gets the hot babes in thongs, while the GOoPers make do with pages in cloakrooms.
So where do these goopers go ta get “fixed” so that they aren’t gay anymore?
dead last @ 134
be thankful for small favors?
send him a card: “sorry for your loss?”
ccmask:
Also, that particular bathroom (in Northstar Crossing at the airport) is well known in the gay community as a gay tryst space. (Please don’t ask me how I know this…*g*)
Tweety and Armstrong are slamming Brownback on the cancer forum…Brownback is babbling…he has zero answers…totally cornered.
“sitting senator”
Under the circumstances- that’s pretty funny.
carmen @ 140
hmmm…I think bush might be brazen enough to nominate rove then
add him to this excellant list
That was John’s at Americablog (I think)take on John Roberts, awhile back. R
A commenter somewhere also said “Why doesn’t the Senator just switch over to the other side where that kind of behavior is accepted.”
Carmen@140: Was Ken arrested?
perris @ 147
McClellen?
There’s a lot of homophobia in this thread. No one has given much thought to the use of public resources to bust tea room queens in the airport. Is this really the crime of the century that I’m hearing about? These guys tap their feet to send a signal to the guy in the next stall. If the other guy is interested, the assignation takes place inside the stall. Nobody has to know about it.
Much has been made about GOP hypocrisy. Being gay is simply a fact, not a choice. So gay Republicans aren’t crusaders for gay rights. Big deal.
The delight that Democrats are taking in this story is inappropriate. Much of the snark is based on the apparent belief that queers are inferior.
Mehlman never arrested. Just rumored to be gay.
Do you have to be arrested before it counts? Rumors of Condi as well. Oh yeah, Mehlman dated Ann Coulter. Isn’t that kind of an indictment?
ccmask @ 149
LS @ 145
oh what fun! I’ll watch the re-run, soon’s I stock up on popcorn! Thanks for the tip.
Shame doesn’t run deep for goopers. Airhead Flusher- who admitted to aiding in the outing of a CIA agent- now has the balls to wrap himself in the glag and become the talking head for a pro war campaign.
Fuckhead!
Sparkles the Iguana @ 97
The precise ratio of new entrants (retirees) to new payers is determined by economic growth rates. (not that you are suggesting this, Sparkles, but the Rethugs can only forecast Social Security collapse by positing Depression-era growth rates over the next several decades.)
On a broader level, increased climatic disruption is most lethal for those at either ends of the age curve: after floods and during heat waves, seniors are far more likely to die than teenagers and adults.
The Social Security laws are human contrivance – the atmospheric and aquatic heat sinks are physical realities.
Should current Soc Security “laws” demand infinite expansion of the US population simply to provide existing benefits, the policies appear incompatable with physical realities.
Condi is not lesbian…
Kirk Murphy @69: Of course overpopulation is a threat to humanity, and it is all too true that even average American families are gluttons for food and energy. Do you really think the USA would be less greedy and grasping and destructive if we all limited ourselves to 2.2 kids? i think not!
But the root of global overpopulation lies in poverty – in under-developed and developing countries. As societies “move up” to industrialized economies and out of agrarian cultures and practices, poverty eases and families become smaller.
The US itself is not far removed from an agrarian economy – perhaps my family can be regarded as an “artifact” of that historical reality.
That said – how does contemptuous, hateful rhetoric advance the cause?
Biodun @ 144
Perhaps it was on “craigslist.”
This took a long time to get out.
Wasn’t Senator Coleman the Mayor of St. Paul?
When did he learn of this?
Did he take any affirmative action to suppress this story?
Adie @ 122
Adie, wish I could could be half as fast and brief!
Sparkles the Iguana @ 94
Well with regard to the Monica case being relevant to that…it was consensual, she pursued it, and she was an adult. Not sure how that related to the “investigation” at all.
And is there a difference between being an advocate and actor on wonderful ideals while not being capable of practicing those things at a personal level vs. someone who holds themselves above the law…while publicly vilifying and passing legislation that attacks a community that is discriminated against.
I think there is. And that is the very essence of what makes hyprocrisy relevant to the service of a public official.
Let’s use a more neutral example. Let’s say two elected official are closet alcoholics. Official “A” acts like it’s a mortal sin, cuts funding for treatment programs, and yet tries to buy off his arresting officer on his drunk driving pull-over.
Official “B” acts like he has no issue with booze any more, but is sympathetic to those who face health problems from alcoholism, and works for treatment and counselling programs, but then he falls off the wagon…or is discovered to have secretly imbibed throughout his term of office.
I think that official #2 hasn’t let his hypocrisy interfere with his ideals and efforts to improve the community, while #1`is a jerk.
Biodun @ 156
She is also not much of a Secretary of State.
rwcole @ 146
u just had to do that, didn’t u?!
i wuz wonderin’ which of u guys would wade right in…
congrats. yer on candid cam’ra.
nowww nuh-uh don’t touch it leave it be.
sit stay good boy (balancing kibble on him’s nose)
Biodun @ 156
Bush’s Sally Hemings?
Sparkles the Iguana @ 94
He is a serial toe-tapper!!! When I was an undergrad at southern Idaho’s biggest univeristy (ahem, that was BYU in Utah) toe tapping in the library was the way to meet
discretely. BYU security would set traps for the students by having security officers entrap students. Senator Craig did not attend BYU but his staff over the years should have alerted him that such joyful expression with his happy feet could have consequences.
Who knows, maybe Bush will pardon Craig in order to ensure Rove’s vision of a permanent Republican Majority.
Hugh @ 162
And her husb,er boss is a jerk.
How creepy is it for Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) to bring his wife along to the Statesman interview in May? He made her sit through all the questions, including listening to the taped accusation from the man who had sex with the Senator at Union Station.
It’s a very clear sign she’s a prop, always has been a prop, and knows she’s a prop.
Hi all — just back from a meeting with The Peanut’s preschool teachers. School year is about to begin for a wee girlie.
Will read through comments as soon as I can get some lunch into my rumbly tumbly…
landofthefree @ 70
Really? I thought Idaho was very solidly in conservative Republican hands. Please let me know if my impression is incorrect.
Rock-hard solid in Republican hands ;-) Firmly held in the chafed and callused man-hands of the Party of Lumberjacks!
the senator is correct in his assertions that he has never asked for or engaged in sex with a man. the senator has changed the definition of “man” and therefore no longer sees it in these terms. the senator has sex with “naughty boys” and or primates. you can clearly see the difference in this description and we hope that settles it for you.
thanks, the GOP
old gold:
Senator Norm Coleman, R-MN
Mayor Paul Coleman, Mayor of St. Paul.
Norm was mayor of St Paul eons ago.
OMG — Thom Hartman’s guest Margorie Cohn is stating that their are rumors that Lieberman is the pick for replacing Gonzo….. OMG … because it is the good old boys club…. he will be confirmed….
Sheesh. Now you tell me that all I have to do to get laid is tap my toes?! My college years could have been A LOT more fun.
Biodun @ 156
Tee-hee….
back when she was at Stanford and came to SF for play, she apparently did good a job of acting…
(so sez the local gossip….)
Prairie Sunshine @ 164
Yep. Definitely. At a cocktail party in DC (Arthur Sulzberger’s, of all people), she referred to Bush to “my husband.” Jaws dropped at the party.
maralenenok @ 118
This is the biggest argument for or against unsex bathrooms; I’ve never quite been able to decide…
How long before Craig goes on TV and says “I did not have sex with that man”?
…and then goes on to blame Clinton for redefining sex to exclude bl*wj*bs?
[edited by mod to clear filters]
kirk murphy @ 155
the tax was already increased to address teh baby boomers, that tax was invested in positive return programs
that return was given away to rich people by this administration
it is not ONLY a pay as you go program, there was surplus which earned dividends
Christy Hardin Smith @ 168
before you know it she’ll be off to college…
Jane’s upstairs…
kirk murphy @ 160
if u shorten your comments, i’ll smack ya on the nose! Yours have substance. All I’m good for is playin’ fetch & passing-fair as copy-editor. Love reading your stuff!
(oh, & no charge, this time *g*)
Earful from Jane
cinnamonape @ 169
I predict this will push Idaho to elect someone even more conservative than Craig, someone with 85 grandchildren, someone who practices “safe” politics.
Why do Republicans get so weird around sex?
Do they just not like it?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 168
My nephews preschool was only 2 hour 35 minutes, my sister barely had time to get home and she had to pick them back up!
The next step? Craig will offer an unpology to “those who may have been offended.”
For more on being Republican means never having to say you’re sorry, see:
“The Unpology: How Republicans Never Say They’re Sorry.”
OK, since we’re sort of on the subject – clients want us to put a urinal in the powder room of their weekend home. I surmise that the female guests will get confused – “oops, where’s the ladies’ room?”.
punaise @ 178
nuh-uh! Christy’s smart momma. lotsa quality time ‘n luv’s the ticket. Peanut’s one fortunate little lassie!
katymine @ 172
I just don’t buy it. Why would Lieberman take a messy, dead-end job for 1.5 years and screw up his cushy Senate seat, which he can likely keep for a lot longer? Unless he’s looking to leave politics after Bush’s term ends, I don’t see this as logical.
Back to the outing talk: personally, I’m not a fan of outting. If a public figure has done something illegal, it’s the public’s business. Otherwise, sexual trysts – heterosexual or homosexual- is personal and not our business, unless someone makes it my business.
rwcole @ 127
I’m fond of the explanation that these guys sincerely believe that gay marriage is a threat to straight marriage because it’s a threat to their marriages.
perris @ 177
This is mistaken. The surpluses were spent and not invested. In their place, the government put IOUs, but since this was money it was borrowing from itself it didn’t matter. The government would have the same future obligations if the surpluses had never existed. The surpluses in other words were a backdoor tax on wage earners and a way of giving lawmakers free money to play with. There are no surpluses. They are gone, spent, period.
albert fall @ 183
The opposite — they’re ashamed because they like it so much and think they ought not.
albert fall@183:
Good question! LOL They just need to relax, chill out & enjoy God’s gifts.
punaise @ 185
Um, yeah. I would do an immediate back-out of that bathroom, assuming it’s the “men’s room” – even if it is in a house!
Why would someone want a urinal in a house? Is it really that attractive or practical? I am no expert on urinals, having never used one… but my guess is that their function is simply so you can have multiple men using it at once. Are the homeowners suggesting that all the guys jump in the powder room at once?
Sparkles the Iguana @ 94
He plead guilty to “lewd behavior” – solicitation of sex in a public area.
He may have won the case if he HAD fought it…but it would have likely have brought out all his OTHER history. There was a “pattern” of acts that the judge would have had to weigh if “as a group” constituted solicitation…the touching of the foot in the other stall, the peeking into the stall, the palms up waving, hand-motions under the stall wall (enough to show his wedding ring)…and even the contrived explanations (”I was trying to pick up a piece of paper”).
I suspect that Craig thought that he could hide the incident…perhaps by having someone in the Minnesota State House or Congressional Delegation pull some strings. Maybe he DID have a lawyer suggest this route…I find it hard to believe that he didn’t.
But he did PLEAD GUILTY…under oath! That’s a confession before the judge, and pertinent to the leniency of the sentence.
NOW, Craig denies it! Which could have a bearing on his “suspended” jail sentence, methinks.
PB (peanut butter) @ 176
I think it’s an argument for family bathrooms in addition to segregated ones.
landofthefree @ 192
Thanks for confirming my hunch. I’m not sure where they’re coming from on this…water conservation? …avoiding poor aim by slightly inebriated male guests? There would only be one such fixture; seems weird to me.
LaFourmiRouge @ 157
I do not detect any contemptuous, hateful rhetoric on this thread. Are you reading the same words I am? If you’ve got a beef, please steer to the source.
There was actually a study of men who hookup in mens rooms for sex even though they self-identify as heterosexual and are married, first published in 1970.
Sadly, LFR (hope that is OK), I do beleive the US would be less violent if we consumed less voraciously.
We have military bases in over a hundred other nations – deployed in places most likely to secure us access to natural resources at the cost we choose.
(please consult Chamblers Johnson – or Naom Chomsky – for further specifics on our global military basing).
We overthrow and murder national leaders who defy our efforts to control their nation resources (please consult John Perkins for current details)
We are currently spending hundreds of billions and slaying hundreds of thousands – and will keep doing it until Iraq installs the government that signs the Petrochemical Laws we put forth.
And in the UK gas sells for around 8 dollars a gallon – and life goes on.
And we’ll go abroad and kill to keep gas around 3 dollars a gallon.
And we kill for chromium and iridium and rare metals – and we destroy forests and lands and cultures and whole peoples.
And we use more than any other people on earth – and we throw away more and waste more.
So as long as we are in aggreagate such a wasteful, greedy, violent, mudrerous people…
I believe the more slowly America’s population grows, the more slowly the carnage we inflict on the world will grow.
Until we are able to understand that capitalism means buying what you need, not killing to steal it.
I’m not holding my breath.
[I do agree that in less developed agraian nations - where the people with the smallest ecological footprint live - large family sizes are a logical compensation.]
LaFourmiRouge @ 157
punaise @ 187
can they build a flower vase (self washing/filling) to sit on top?
[ducks]
Sparkles the Iguana @ 97
OR pay future workers more…
OR make the wealthy pay a larger proportion of their incomes rather than placing a ceiling on their contributions…
OR one could increase the retirement age to 68. ..
OR one could have infused the SSI fund with 25% of the Clinton-era Surplus…[This was precisely what Bush swore he would do in the 2000 Debates with Gore…he lied].
OR one could actually Lock-box the fund and not allow it to be used for anything but secure investments that benefit the fund…
OR one could reduce some benefits to certain classes…
OR one could increase enforcement against those employers shirking on paying SSI taxes to under-the-table employees…
There are lots of things that could bring SSI back into a stronger, more solvent position in the next few decades besides “populational fixes”.
LFR at 43 — Well, speaking solely for myself and all the trouble we went through to simply have one child — and as the loving great-granddaughter of a mother of 12 (would have been 14, had two others survived infancy), no, it’s not a set policy of the blog to do so.
But, as someone who is allowed to get sleep at night, I also wasn’t up for the thread you question, so it’s a difficult one for me to answer, having not been there for the discussion or lack thereof on the issue. I am sorry if you were offended by something that someone else wrote on the site, though.
kirk murphy @ 202
rascal!
cinnamonape @ 194
If he wasn’t guilty, he lied to the judge. Didn’t goopers once think that lying about sex under oath was an impeachable offense? Karma’s a bitch.
jayt @ 114
Rectocranial inversion.
landofthefree @ 194
I’ve always thought urinals were invented ’cause (other) guys don’t flush after peeing.
[Of course, they can’t seem to hit the damn things, so I wish they’d just all pee sitting down.
On the appropriate fixture, of course.
Hmm - nothing like popping out from a week under the redwoods to really give perspective on gas station public toilets.]
And yep – I’m part of killing the planet too – burnt petrol all the way up and down the redwood coast…
where the great giants depend on near daily fog to condense on their needles and fall to the ground – up to several inches each night.
where we had five eeily clear hot days….even the old timers don’t recall that in August
Biodun @ 116
The cop should have said…”Leeeetle Dawgies! Hey Captain, We’ve got ourselves the Queen of De Nile here tonight!”
cinnamonape @ 162
I was thinking of Paula Jones, not Monica. It wasn’t consensual with Paula.
kirk murphy @ 161
True — and all that is necessary is to remove the ‘wage cap’ — currently anyone earning more than $97,000 per year pays OASDI (FICA) taxes on that amount. If they were taxed proportionately to what they’re earning, Social Security would be solvent. But, that means taxing the rich…
Arghh! Late to this thread cuz I missed it between before work surfing and then getting to work.
Craig was undecided on reelection – the local GOPPERs were waiting to hear from him before jumping in.
Larry LaRocco is running as a democrat for that seat – and his “Working for Idaho” campaign is one that connected with me. I’ve donated to the GOOD Larry, and would again if the largest private employer in the state hadn’t just laid off Mr. L, creating a financial crunch for us.
The big risk here is that the humiliation heaped upon the conservative voters of this state causes a backlash that results in Bill “I’m batsh*t insane but Jeebus loves me BESTEST” Sali getting that seat. However, there is a schism happening with the Idaho R’s right now (read McJoan at Kos for details.)
And can I close with a heartfelt THANKS for the late birthday present, Abu and Craig!
[LFR, I write too much - edited my last comment and cut out my direct response by accident - apologies for seeming to ignore your question.]
Let me address this chain of assertions:
“spitting out babies like a lawn sprinkler”
becomes
“not snark, but hate speech”..
“is it the policy of FDL to allow vile comments regarding women have large families”
becomes
“not snark, but hate speech”
becomes
“collective lack of humanity”.
Hey – you write ‘em. I just read ‘em.
I love being around my dad’s many sibs, and I loved it when my mom’s many aunts and uncles joined us for family reunions.
And I wasn’t the least bit offended by the “lawn sprinkler” joke.
Compared to the jokes my Catholic cousins have about familial fecundity, I found it rather tame.
Christy can and did speak for the Lake’s official policy – I certainly haven’t seen the Lake to have any offical policy against women with large families. (My cousins and I wouldn’t like it if that were the case, btw)
The chain of increasingly overwrought conclusions seems a bit contrived, in my opinion.
As far as the word “pussy”, I don’t choose to use it in a derogatory fashion….but from your coment I can’t even figure out if the phrase you cite appeared last night.
If it was on Late Night…well, I believe I’ve seen you here before. If last night was your first expsure to TRex and Late Night, I’m sorry you were offended.
If you’ve visited Late Night before…uh…well…why expect not to be offended from time to time there?
LaFourmiRouge @ 43
punaise @ 188
It’s practical — the ladies in question won’t have to worry about the gents’ bad aim, or leaving the toilet seat up, since the men will have their own target…
I just called Senator Larry Craig’s office in Washington and asked when he will resign. Instead of a strong denial, his aide responded: “He hasn’t yet made the announcement.” That sounds encouraging.
Kirk Murphy @201:
That’s quite a school of red herrings you have there… you managed to garble the point magnificently.
America would be every bit as gluttonous whether or not we limit our families to 2 or 3 kids; this voracious consumption has exactly nothing to do with the size of one’s family, but everything to do with the structure and ideals of the “American Dream” and the rapacious “winner take all” capitalist system.
As I read her post @204, Christie states that it is not the policy of FDL to allow such speech as I cited, however, the “clowncar” crack has been recycled for several weeks now without a single word of caution by any moderator.
Suzanne apologized once, but the message apparently did not filter up or down to the rest of the crew.
Of course you are entitled to explain why you think large families are a bad thing. But are you allowed to slander and ridicule women with large families here at the Lake? CHS says “no”. That is the point.
karen allen @ 215
Woo-freaking-hoo!
Craig is an eco-destoyer of the worst kind – great news.
LaFourmiRouge @ 43
My response [a shorter Kirk]: get over it.
This isn’t a TellyTubbies site. Most of us are adults, and the occasional ones who aren’t chronologically so are so intellectually.
I don’t think either of these comments rose [or sunk] to the level of “vile.” And they were damn funny.
Dennis Quaranta @ 151
It IS a victimless crime, and police should have better things to do than sit in a stall and wait for a come on. And I hate when these closet case conservatives are dragged screaming out of the closet, because it makes it seem like there really IS something horrible and dirty and disgusting about being gay (which they believe and too many people still believe).
OTOH… the guy is rabidly anti-gay and has been enjoying his power and prestige while demonizing gays and voting to prevent them from having rights… for decades. So, given that, in this case…HA HA HA you old closet queen conservative motherf***er. He deserves every bit of scorn and shame that can be heaped on him, and then some. No pity.
Mr. Larry @ 219
No, he doesn’t. And that’s the point. Sure, if somebody has to be ruined for men’s room sex, it might as well be a guy who’s publicly homophobic. But nobody deserves the scorn and shame that gets heaped on public figures who get caught the way Larry Craig got caught. Remember, it’s not a choice.
Mauimom @218:
Per CHS @204, it is not the policy of this site to allow such speech.
It has been demonstrated here that, if a person were to post in vulgar terms their revulsion toward transsexuals, their post would be excised immediately and a stern warning issued.
Therefore, I expect that vulgar references to prolific mothers will be dealt with by the same method.
when someone comes onto me and im not interested i either act not interested or say “not interested.”
if they’re my boss i complain and sue.
if i read something harsh on fdl i go to another website like …craigslist
Is there any organization in America quite as gay as the Republican party?
The GOP attracts people who can’t accept themselves.
Weird. The GOP is just bursting at the seams with repressed self denying gay agony.
“Nothing wrong with that” except for the part about making other people feel as miserable as these closet cases clearly feel about themselves.
>>> michael vick said he found jesus.
And he hasn’t even heard a cell door close yet. Amazing how quickly these folks see the error of their ways and run to religion.
My question is: why is it that no one in prison ever finds MOSES?
Peterr @ 8
Great point!
Is he guilty of the charge? He plead guilty.
Is he guilty of perjury? He’s admitted to it.
I hope the Republicans try to keep him around for a while. He’ll be a convenient punching bag. And, if the Republicans want to kick him out, force him to resign and don’t do the same with Sen. Vitter, then they’ll have some real explaining to do.
perris @ 27
Helpless Dancer @ 55
You can look at this several ways. But, primarily they have defended Bush, so it’s plain they don’t like what Craig has done or the bad publicity it’s bringing the Republicans.
OTOH, if my fantasy speculation is correct that he’s trying to get away from being blackmailed by the Bush mafia at this time when Bush is weak then CNN and like-minded media who defend Bushies will rake him over the coals to destroy him as any good blackmailers would do.
I’m not saying they’re ‘in on it’, just that they are playing ball with the Bush mafia.
katymine @ 173
So, what would happen in Connecticut? Does a Repub governor appoint or is there an election or what?
Whomever they would put in would have to be an improvement.
carmen @ 140
Wasn’t there a congressman who resigned because of some illicit affair from way back in his past? I’m thinking it was the Representative who prosecuted the case against Clinton in the Senate. There are so many it’s hard to recollect all the sinnin’.
I suppose we could include Giuliani who lived in the mayor’s mansion with his mistress while his wife lived elsewhere, but that’s getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Do ya ever wonder why the press doesn’t inform the public of such things during the primary, so they won’t be stuck with him during a general election?
MarkH @ 229
Bob Livingston…