AJ Rossmiller and Digby both have posts up about what a truly horrible idea it is to return former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi to power in Iraq. The fact that he is even being considered, let alone pushed for the job serves to underscore what complete, mismanaged chaos the entire occupation has become. But as AJ says, the proposition is taken seriously amongst the punditocracy because he’s the ideal “Broder candidate”:
Allawi is precisely the kind of leader the uninformed pundit class loves. Just as David Broder can wax pathetic about Michael Bloomberg for his “leadership” and “post-partisan” positioning, other observers label Allawi “tough” and “non-sectarian.” These kind of vague labels are music to the ears of pundits, neocons, and deluded war supporters alike, and Allawi gets disproportionate attention because he is essentially a Westerner. He speaks English well, is comfortable among elites from London to Amman to Washington, and knows that the surest route to political acceptance in the US is a massively expensive lobbying campaign by former Bush administration officials. But when it comes down to it, Allawi has about as much support for Iraqi PM as Bloomberg does for US president . . . and from the same types of people.
Like Americans, Iraqis have preferences about issues. If they wanted “non-sectarian” leaders, they would have elected them in January ‘05. Or December ‘05. Or the parliament would pass a vote of no-confidence — remember, Iraq isn’t like the American system; there the parliament can topple the PM anytime with a majority vote. The fact that they haven’t jettisoned Maliki should be a big glowing sign that there’s no consensus alternative. The country is majority religious Shia, and that fact is reflected in the government. It’s true that even the religious Shia parties aren’t getting along, but the idea that Allawi would improve things is ludicrous. Anyone who claims otherwise doesn’t understand Iraq.
I still find it mystifying that Hillary Clinton and Carl Levin decided to get out in front of this thing by calling for the removal of Maliki. The danger of winding up once again in a “you broke it, you bought it” situation seem pretty extreme.
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HEH
Are there ANY good ideas that have been floated with respect to Iraq from the START???
dos?
They like him because his one of them. A crooked bastard.
If I lived in the region, I would by this time be so suspicious of anyone that the U.S. tried to prop up. Our record in this respect over the last, what, 100 years, is NOT good. At. All.
well gosh, how could you say no to a guy who personally executes 6 suspects at the local police station … he’s just the sort of thug to appeal to the oh so serious people
Singles! The corporate owned MSM has already elected Allawi. Only those who hang around foul-mouthed fem blogs would dare to question the wisdom thereof.
peanutbutter @ 2
Only two that I can think of:
1) Don’t invade, and
2) Get out.
Just another way to kick the can down the road….
In September W will say, “Violence is being contained (somewhere, somehow, sometime!)AND now we have new leadership…so we MUST give them some time.”
FU. FU. FU. Should we have a pool as to how many FU’s DC Dems will give him?
My bad. Should read ’selected.’
Clinton and Leahy either don’t understand Iraq or don’t want to. I’m guessing the latter.
On September 17, James Comey and Fitz’s friend and ally, Jack Goldsmith will publish his exposé, “The Terror Presidency: Law and Judgment Inside the Bush Presidency.”
It’s a fitting date since September 17 is Albertoady Gonzales’ last day in office. September 17, 2007 is also, notably, Constitution and Citizenship Day, as well as the start of Constitution Week. The Netroots, and each and every one of us here, should do everything we can to make September 17, CONSTITUTION DAY, a HUGE day on every front possible. If we could get Schuster and Olbermann talking this up, as well as any other MSM we can, and all our lethargic Democratic leaders/slugs, maybe we can get something positive accomplished for once.
How many seats did the Allawi list get in the Iraqi parliament? Six? Seven? Out of 230-odd?
Should say all that needs to be said about Allawi’s overall popularity.
The analogy to this country would be Congress saying, yes, finally, we have to throw the Bush bums out, so, let’s get the head of the Constitution Party to replace Bush….
Siun @ 6
Yes, exactly. A man who murdered 6 detainees in front of two U.S. military personnel and Iraqi police. He stated at the time that this was how he wanted insurgents to be treated by the police.
Allawi the murderer, as he is known by fellow citizens.
And while I’m on a rant, has anyone wondered whether Clinton was lobbied to support this guy? Being as he has lobbyists and….well, just askin’…..
Siun @ 6
Before I read your comment I was just about to ask if that episode has been proven to be true. Or at least, if you would please, direct me to the link of an article that lays out the evidence one way or the other.
kdh at 11 — That was Levin, not Leahy. Just FYI.
And yes, Jane, I don’t understand why anyone would put themselves in the position of owning any of George Bush’s failure or the Republican rubber stampery. No. Thank. You.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
CHS – yes, Levin not Leahy. Sorry.
One would theenk that McCain’s disastrous pushing of The Surge, at the cost of hees own credibility, would have been reminder enough for them, no?
so.
Carl and Hillary — listen up! It’s of absolutely no consequence WHO’s “in charge.”
Because it’s anarchy.
Therefore no one could possibly be in charge.
Kitt @ 15
Here is link, provided in Digby’s article: here.
!El Gato Negro! at 18 — What — McCain’s campaign is going swimmingly…
O.o
If rwcole is still around. Re the Census Report on poverty. On page 1 (page 9 of the PDF), there is an explanation in a footnote:
The price index may be the kicker in the mix. But incomes are normalized to 2006 dollars.
Truthout on the alleged shooting of the 6 prisoners:
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bi…..cgi/4/5266
peanutbutter @ 2
How about, “Don’t go there!” ?
Bob in HI
peanutbutter @ 2
“Stay the hell away” was a good idea. They just didn’t want to hear it.
I believe this administration has truly run out of ideas….
Perhaps this Allawi is merely a diversion to muddle the Iraq debacle…
It would remove the last vestige of legitimacy our puppet government.
I’m still wondering what news John in Sacramento says is coming out on September 7th.
Maybe they’ll produce OBL. There is supposedly a massive ongoing operation in Afghanistan in that mountainous region right now. Maybe they already have him. Just guessing.
Did anyone say “ANBAR” (Congressman Baird?)???
Once again that nettlesome McClatchy team breaks through the bulldada…And the same process of quiet control and extortion through fear is going on elsewhere the “Surge” has been “successful”. The reality is that the US really never does “control” the streets…the insurgency has melted into the background, but is still there…like one of those “Holographic” pictures of dolphins that you had to cross your eyes to “see”.
“Iraq’s deadly insurgent groups have financed their war against U.S. troops in part with hundreds of thousands of dollars in U.S. rebuilding funds that they’ve extorted from Iraqi contractors in Anbar province. The payments, in return for the insurgents’ allowing supplies to move and construction work to begin, have taken place since the earliest projects in 2003, Iraqi contractors, politicians and interpreters involved with reconstruction efforts said.
A fresh round of rebuilding spurred by the U.S. military’s recent alliance with some Anbar tribes— 200 new projects are scheduled— provides another opportunity for militant groups such as al Qaeda in Iraq to siphon off more U.S. money, contractors and politicians warn.
“Now we’re back to the same old story in Anbar. The Americans are handing out contracts and jobs to terrorists, bandits and gangsters,” said Sheik Ali Hatem Ali Suleiman , the deputy leader of the Dulaim, the largest and most powerful tribe in Anbar. He was involved in several U.S. rebuilding contracts in the early days of the war, but is now a harsh critic of the U.S. presence.
The U.S. Embassy in Baghdad declined to provide anyone to discuss the allegations…
Iraqi contractor(s) sets a price at up to four times the going rate because he’ll be forced to give 50 percent or more to gun-toting insurgents who demand cash payments in exchange for the supply convoys’ safe passage.
One Iraqi official said the arrangement makes sense for insurgents. By granting safe passage to a truck loaded with $10,000 in goods, they receive a “protection fee” that can buy more weapons and vehicles. Sometimes the insurgents take the goods, too…
“Every contractor in Anbar who works for the U.S. military and survives for more than a month is paying the insurgency,” the politician said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter. “The contracts are inflated, all of them. The insurgents get half.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclat…..Tc4w1AXYh4
Alice @ 27
Very funny…..
It’s just theater…
I believe they want to change the actors….
You know it’s a real clusterfuck when the best option is to dig up and reinstate zombie-Saddam.
LS @ 28
I’m not sure LS, but I think the news had something to do with Charlie Brown’s candidacy.
It appears, to me at least, that the push for strongman Ayad Allawi is tacit confirmation that the ’surge’, and Ayad Allawi’s return to power, is really about the change in policy from seeking political unity to Israeli supported partitioning, as described in the Clean Break paper.
(ooops. I mentioned Israel without the required prostrate, “our esteemed ally”. Now I have to go wash my mouth out with soap)
Tithonia @ 32
Oh, I see. Dang.
Larry Craig news conference at 4:30 ET.
To Laura Doty at 20:
Thanks.
LS @ 35
I just hope he isn’t tapping his foot behind the podium.
Alice @ 27
That’s correct. Bush’s 28 percent are the only ones (in the world) who believe that Occupied Iraq’s government was/is not a puppet regime. Then, they also believe that Dubya is not a puppet.
Maliki is indeed a puppet, but for appearances or for legitimate reasons he has bitten the hand that feeds him.
DAMN good thread, Jane!
Pimping Allawi (and using the GOP’s fave “rehab” lobbying firm to do it!) is THE mark of just how desperate bush is getting.
And I can’t believe it when Clinton keeps parroting these bushCo bailout proposals. Are all of her advisers complete dolts?
Can none of them speak the words:
“Sen. Clinton, you know if you break it again, you’re gonna own it again…?”
In a way, I’m perverse enough to almost want to see their ex-CIA payrollee installed. What will Gordon Brown say to Parliament and the Brits, when everything goes back to square one, and the Shiite militias watch bush handing power to a user-friendly, nominally-Shiite, corporate toady, who wants to reinstate lots of Baathists in the government, in the hopes that Allawi will somehow bring “stability” to the place?
This is wrong on so many different levels that it’s pathetic.
EvilDrPuma @ 37
It will be interesting to observe his stance.
LS @ 35
woo-hoo!
time to start the resignation pool*
can I have dibs on 4:32?
(*we can fill one with forest defenders’ crodile tears)
I can’t figure out Clinton/Levin on this either. It makes no sense. It gives the Administration cover for a coup – while Bush continues to spout “democracy” BS.
The media participates because they are desperate for any change that might bring them credibility after cheerleading the greatest disaster in foreign policy we have ever seen. What’s another FU to them, pick up some more Wingnut Welfare advertising revenue.
Isn’t this a perfect opportunity to shove the Purple Finger in the faces of war supporters?
Emphasize the disconnect between the reality of the alleged “government” and the chaos on the ground.
Bottom line – OUT NOW.
There are a bunch of phony stories in the runup to the so-called Petraeus report which try to paint movement and progress where there is none.
The Allawi story may be a way of putting pressure on Maliki, another neocon fantasy, or simply hot air. I agree if Allawi was popular among Iraqis his party would be a lot bigger than it is. If there is a coup, the legitimacy of the Iraqi government already largely a theoretical concept would be completely destroyed. It is part of the short term “gain” long term disaster thinking that has gotten us where we are in Iraq.
It is as ethereal as the recent articles in the NYT and elsewhere that applaud all these supposed breakthroughs on the oil law, re-Baathification, and local elections which so far are just talk, as we have heard so many times before.
Please keep your hands and feet inside your own stall.
LS @ 39
Kicking ‘em when they’re down…it’s not sportsmanlike, but it’s so damned fun.
Installing Allawi as a new shiny object in Iraq, gives them an opportunity for more Friedman Units.
crocodile, not “crodile”. [Damn, I miss the edit code.]
kirk murphy @ 40
MSNBC seemed to suggest he would say that he won’t run for office again, but that he will stay until his term runs out, and that the ethics committee will look into the use of his Senate ID in the incident.
hackworth @ 43
Can we hope for a really big phallic mike on the podium?
It’s almost as if there is a foreign policy consensus between the leadership of the two Parties…as if it is assumed America can intervene anywhere on earth and topple governments at will!
But that can’t be….because it would mean that a (D) candidate would continue Cheney/Bush’s failed policies in the Middle East, with cosmetic and rhetorical changes at most….
oh but wait…
from http://seattletimes.nwsource.c…..ary28.html
the replacement of one Green Zone satrap for another is just kabuki for domestic consumption, designed to drag the occupation through a few more Freidman Units, as was pointed out by Sha.
And, unfortunately, if the (D)’s nominate a neo-con acceptable candidate who triangulates and equivoctaes with American soldiers lives, the left will stay away in droves and many in the middle just might opt for a more authentic warmonger.
kirk murphy @ 48
Was that the officer’s name, he asked innocently?
kirk murphy @ 48
Mr. Sandman, send me a dream…
LS@23: good link.
That whole thing, from when I read it 3 years ago, and when I just read it, has the ring of truth about it.
If 30 people were witnesses to the shootings. At some point, it will come out.
And as regards to Baghdad…here’s how the Surge has been successful there.
SADR CITY, IRAQ – Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army rarely engages US forces anymore. Hundreds of his men were killed in clashes with the US in April and by June, the militant Shiite cleric had declared an informal truce that prevails to this day…But that doesn’t mean Sadr and his militia have lost influence. In recent months, the Mahdi Army has consolidated its control over Sadr City – a poor sprawl of 2.5 million on Baghdad’s northeastern edge – maintained control over large portions of Najaf, forced a US-backed government council in the southern city of Amara to resign, and rearmed in anticipation of further confrontation with the US.
“We’re in charge here,” says Sheikh Amar Saadi, a preacher in Sadr City and senior Mahdi Army commander. And he goes further:”Our mission is to clear Iraq of evil, and that’s not just about defeating the Americans.”
…Scarcely a street corner can be found without a Mahdi Army member, more often than not in a black shirt with a pistol tucked discreetly in his waistband. Sadr officials say the group is making the first tentative steps towards becoming a political force like Hezbollah in Lebanon.US patrols rarely venture here and the local police tend to take orders from Sadr’s men rather than the other way around. Every afternoon, large queues of supplicants form outside Sadr’s main office to ask for help with medical bills, schooling, and jobs.
Sadr’s men – and not the US-installed interim government – have taken up the mantle of chief guarantors of public order in Sadr City.
The Mahdi Army is the most potent social and political movement in Sadr City. The area holds about 10 percent of Iraq’s electorate – a powerful bloc in a country divided between the Kurds and competing Shiite and Sunni factions… The US military has just embarked on a multimillion dollar effort to improve Sadr City’s sewage and water supply, but most residents, when asked who’s responsible for the earthworks on many streets, say it’s being done by the Mahdi Army.
The modest lifestyle of the Mahdi Army’s leaders – as well as their past and present involvement in operations against Saddam Hussein, US forces, and criminals – gives them enormous street credibility in this tough neighborhood.”The Sadr family has lived with the people and suffered with us,” says Salam Abeid Kassim, a policeman lounging in a Sadr City tea shop. “All of these exiles who the Americans put in charge – we can’t respect them. The Mahdi Army are the only ones working for us.”Sadr’s father, Mohammed Sadek al-Sadr, was assassinated in 1999 along with two of his sons for speaking out against Saddam Hussein. His uncle, Mohammed Bakr al-Sadr, was killed by the regime in 1980. To supporters, that legacy gives the family’s most prominent descendant the moral right to speak and to lead over former exiles like the secular Shiite Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister who left Iraq in 1975.
NAJAF, IRAQ – In April and May, when US units engaged in bloody clashes here with militiamen loyal to Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, this Shiite holy city was a ghost town.But today, mention Mr. Sadr in the back streets of Najaf, and few people are willing to say anything negative about the young firebrand whose uprising hurt local business and left hundreds of Iraqis dead.
Recent national polls show a dramatic increase in Sadr’s popularity. In one US-sponsored survey published in June of more than 1,000 Iraqis in major cities, 81 percent said their opinion of Sadr was “better” or “much better” than three months earlier.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/…..html?s=ent
A puppet government still has essence. This is more like a fictive puppet government.
kirk murphy @ 41
I don’t think you could pry that guy out with a forklift, we’ll see ; )
Cozumel @ 56
he’s stalling for time
punaise @ 55
I think it’ll be a toe-tapping good time.
I have always thought that Iraq can only be governed by someone who is willing to crack heads- like Saddam. Allawi didn’t appear to be that sort when he was around last time- did he change?
A democracy is probably the worst thing that could have happened to Iraq just now- it will end up mired in conflicts it can’t breach..
Most politicians think that if the govt. reaches out- and is FLEXIBLE enough- and invites everyone to participate (bake sale theory of governance) then the civil war will magically disappear..
Bullshit!!
Iraq needs a dictator and it needs one NOW.
OT with Tony Snow leaving, I was wondering who might take his place as White House Press Secretary.
For now, my top two suggestions are Bill Keller Executive Editor of the NYT and Leonrad Downie of the WaPo. Fred Hiatt of the WaPo’s editorial page would also be a good choice.
Hugh @ 59
Jeff Gannon’s not available?
Why not just install Chalabi as PM and get it over with. As for Boder, Hillary and Levin, all three turn my stomach.
Hugh @ 58
Maybe Joe Lieberman?
LS @ 48
More interested if the investigate whether he used his Senate position to try and suppress the incident…did he call Pawlenty or any Minnesota Congressional Republians for help in suppressing the arrest/conviction? If so resignation is in order…
And if THEY ACTED UPON IT THEY SHOULD GO, TOO!
I for one am not at all surprised that Clinton and Levin are pushing for this change. As I mentioned yesterday (maybe) this provides a rationale for them to (legitimately) press for continued US presence there. THey will say once the change is in place that we need time to let this work. It is same old same old for HRC and the neocons.
do you think he used protection?
retirin’ in five @ 60
Tucker would be perfect and then Shuster could have the Tucker show.
Jane Hamsher:
Mystified?
You’ve already read last week’s article on Levin’s statement, which gives the rundown of all the Democrats who have scurried over to the Green Zone for their orders. In it Richard Durbin unwittingly demystifies Levin’s and Clinton’s statements, letting the cat out of the bag in his glaringly self-contradictory statements (below) — he says switching prime ministers would delay things…yet that’s what he tells Stephen Hadley he’s on board with. As we all know already, and as Durbin makes clear, it’s about dragging things out and running out the clock.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..871_2.html
“Still, Democrats have quietly begun to voice a view that Maliki must go; Durbin said he told White House national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley that last week. But they acknowledge that they do not know what would happen next. If it appeared that Maliki had been ousted at Washington’s behest, his replacement would be seen as a U.S. puppet — a “kiss of death” in the region, Durbin said. And Democratic leaders might feel compelled to ease their antiwar position to allow a new government to take root. “Imagine if we have to step in with a brand-new leader and a new government,” Durbin said. “How many more months would we have to wait?”
rwcole @ 59
Bingo
Sorry for the toe-tapping from the next stall, but…
Never mind the Bollocks….Here Come the Allawi Pistols.
____
Haven’t yet found the Glen Matlock character…..although maybe fast Eddie G?
Either they have somehow become convinced in their hearts that restoring Allawi is the best course, or they are under external pressure (probably from a common source) to adopt this stance. IMHO, it’s the latter.
EvilDrPuma @ 57
Sounds like loo’d behavior to me.
Cozumel @ 67
Maybe we should send them ours.
I can’t imagine the Iraqi people would accept a known CIA asset as their leader. Hmmm. A CIA asset who is ruthless and seeks power.
He sounds like their ideal candidate. Maliki gets the Diem treatment, Allawi forms a “Government of National Salvation” or some such nonsense with emergency powers and a tacit alliance with Muqtada al-Sadr. Presto! The lights come on. Services start being restored. The US says “See? The surge is working!” Maliki becomes the fall guy, the Designated Scapegoat if you will, for the failures of the past.
The US military pulls out of the cities and begins concentrating forces on the border with Iran, just to “provide security”, while refitting, resupplying, and training up for Iran.
They call it redeployment. They’re hoping the name will help elect a Republican President.
Hugh @ 60
I think they’re pimping my fav lil hometown weathergirl Dana Peroxide for that. If so, that will fail miserably for them too. I can’t wait to watch that!
Puma
Unfortunately- ours ain’t worth a shit. Couldn’t keep a small union hall in line- might have trouble with determined girl scouts.
Hugh @ 59
It may be Ari Fleischer coming back.
I’ve gone through that rawstory item someone posted earlier, and I have to say, what it has to say about what the UK might do to help is just so wrong it’s not even funny. PM Brown will NOT EVER support an attack on Iran. Ever. Full stop.
Anyway having a plan and executing it are two different things. Hell, the execution can happen without a plan in the first place (cf Iraq).
To think that HRC, supporter of the Bush Iraq fiasco, may soon be in charge of ‘fixing’ the problem. No thanks. And if anybody could mess up the Palestinian-Israeli situation more than it already is, Hillary’s the one. Just think, soon it could be the Hillary-Bibi show playing on your favorite cable channel. My gawg!
retirin’ in five @ 61
Umm, I think Jeff might be perceived as a bit underqualified by his press peers, and perhaps not aggressive enough by the White House.
Given the mood in the White House these days, Michael Savage would be an excellent representative to the press….
lets get out of iraq now… how many more lives are to be lost in this exercise in futility? talk about a bottomless pit….and HRC would likely keep this shit going for sure
On replacing Tony Snow. They already have been trying out Ari Fleischer on various TV and other venues. I wonder if mister “Freedom Ueber” will be kept on this surge-promoting role.
The raw story article is pure speculation by a buncha brits who know nothing about what ol Clusterfuck is planning..waste of time in my opinion.
punaise @ 56
I think he’s tapped out. Too much air time devoted to this.
Bill Clinton came about as close as any human on earth to bringing some level of peace to the middle east- no reason to think that Hillary would be any different.
RonD @ 73
Also they would have to sell Allawi to Sistani (unlikely) and Sadr (impossible). The Kurds would only accept it if they were bought off. I doubt if the Sunnis would buy him at any price. In short, the people pushing Allawi really aren’t thinking but so what else is new?
peanutbutter @ 84
they’re all flush with excitement
CHS,
Do no make me laugh so hard, eet breengs the hairballs.
Installing Allawi as a new shiny object in Iraq, gives them an opportunity for more Friedman Units.
Diane, Richmond, and Brendan are all hitting the nail on eets leetle head, perfectly.
Get the old guy out, wait while “the transition” takes place, then months of yelling about giving the new guy a chance, then months of delays until the Whitehouse can gin up a new “petraeus” report, then months of jabbering about what that one actually means, and
!Ay, Presto! eet ees 2012.
Thees ees the kind of gag they can pull over and over again, weeth the complicity of spineless-or ideologically complicit Democratistas, and a bought and paid for media.
Pfui.
Wonder if there’ll be a place for Lieberman in a Clinton administration. Perhaps Secretary of Defense, or State. Or maybe as special envoy to the Middle East. Or UN Ambassador.
This Larry Craig thing may just be Minnesota making up for sending Norm the “New Yorker” Coleman to Washington as another one of Bush’s puppets.
Some more background on Larry, seems he was born in Idaho but reared in Minnesota.
punaise @ 86
But no one’s waving hands…
peanutbutter @ 78
The British decided against this in February, in concert with Robert Gates (as if Blair’s departure and their messy withdrawal from Basra weren’t enough evidence):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..426601.ece
Oklahoma kiddo @ 87
I consider that likelier than Bush tapping him to fill a vacancy, but no less odious.
LS @ 28
What’s this about?
LS @ 40
I’m predicting he will burst into tears, apologize to Bill Clinton for hounding him about his dalliances, announce that he is leaving his wife to spend more time with his long time companion, Lindsey Graham; announce his resignation from the senate, and urge Idaho governor Butch Otter to appoint another gay man to replace him. Then he will spontaneously combust.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
Bootlicker would be too good for Lieberman.
But he already has that job.
RichardCA @ 88
Oh, well, then, that explains everything.
Nobody thought of Judy Miller as Tony’s replacement?
Brendan @ 68
ding ding, da ding ding!
it’s a prequel of (D) Admin policy, if they get there.
Make cosmetic changes, re-arrange some deck chairs, withdraw a few troops, increase the slaughter from the air, get Broder’s approval, then “give it time to work”.
The saddest irony I can think of is this: If you truly want to defeat al-Queda in Iraq, it can be argued that withdrawal may be the best way to do that. Al-Queda is largely a Sunni organization, is it not? Iraq has a Shiite-dominated government, correct? Would a Shiite-led government with the backing of the people really have a lot of trouble rooting out a Sunni terrorist organization?
Knowing what was coming for them, al-Queda assets would be fleeing Iraq so fast you’d be able to catch them at the borders in nets.
Or so it seems to me.
Larry was a RANCHER- says so on his website- outoffa long line of RANCHERS–doesn’t say what kinda ranch he had.
rwcole @ 85
Hmm. Let’s not forget that the second intifada began on Clinton’s watch. That was an outgrowth of the general failure of the previous accords, and was a contributing factor in the election of Hamas.
A dispassionate assessment of Clinton’s role in Israeli-Palestinian conflict would suggest that he did manage to maintain the status quo until he was out of office… something most other contemporary Presidents have managed to do, as well.
I expect no less and very little more than that from HRC.
Jane sez:
A high comfort level with the same elites as Allawi.
History repeats itself:
JFK’s recorded notes on the overthrow of Diem…
http://tapes.millercenter.virg…..emoir.html
Note who led the coup: Averell Harriman.
And who were the bright apples of Harriman’s eye?
http://www.tarpley.net/bushint.htm
cleter @ 93
Just to reiterate…”Butch Otter,” people. A gold mine for snark just dropped into your collective lap.
rwcole @ 99
Mink.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 89
If she appoints that toad to anything, I will freak the f*ck out. If she give him anything but richly deserved contempt, I shall be angry.
punaise @ 87
And expecting to be bowled over….
solai @ 94
Someone answered above and said they think it is about Charlie Brown’s candidacy. I thought it might be about something else..I still think it is possible they will play the Osama card at some point.
Cozumel @ 68
Yes, well that’s why we removed Saddam, so it all makes sense now.
My radical idea is:
we fix our own broken housing; clean the posions out of our soil, air, and water; rebuild our shattered manufacturing base; provide single-payer health care; provide quality education for all; shift to carbon neutral-economy.
We do so by taking the money we now use to impose our tyranny on unhappy colonial creations (like Iraq) and taking the money the global megacorps stole from us to fight this evil war.
And seize the “defense” megacorporate assets for fraud and collusion and overpayment and conspiracy and lethal workplaces and conspiracy….
And hey – our actually ending our lethal occupation would let the Iraq people pick their own damned government. Or governments. Whatever they choose.
Not what we choose for them.
We can’t afford our empire – let’s chuck it before it makes us any poorer.
And any more morally degraded.
One step to ending empire: quit picking the vassal state’s rulers.
Just eleven more to go.
Montag- OK- fair enough- but he did put his reputation on the line to try to hammer out an agreement.
Gets some credit for that in my opinion.
Diane @ 46
Yup. You got that right. But when the Titanic is going down, you gotta do something, even if it’s only re-arranging the chairs on the deck.
Bob in HI
EvilDrPuma @ 104
“Butch Otter” Man. I wish he’d appoint himself just so we could see the headline “Gay Senator Replaced By Butch Otter.”
no snowjob’s replacement…. tweety lol – he kisses his ass on the regular
bobschacht @ 111
And while they are re-arranging the chairs, we have to make sure they (repugs) are firmly on the Titanic and vote the suckers out.
juslin @ 81
She most definitely would. She’s been told so many times that any viable presidential candidate, in this ‘post-911 world’, has to be able to pull the trigger, so to speak. She would have to prove to the world that, as a woman, she’s not weak in the knees for war/conflict. I feel like her conservative ‘friends’ across the aisle are backing her into a corner. She won’t be labeled weak.
Before Nov 08 she’ll look just like a Republican.
montag @ 79
even after he topped Shrub?
what happened – Peyronie’s? Vascular problems?
juslin @ 113
I will up you one. O’Lielly is about to loose his TV slot rumors say (via Stephanie Miller radio), perfect timing for a switch to the WH. And, he is a practiced lier so he will feel right at home!
cleter @ 112
LOL 707!!!
rwcole @ 85
sorry, i think carter was much better. and even bush 41.
it was clinton’s policies that allowed the number of israeli settlers to DOUBLE in the west bank – destroying any hope for the oslo accords. now israelis are stuck with an apparently insoluble political solution. 400,000 settlers (many of them voters) who want to stay right where they are. and palestinians who think they already compromised on 79% of the land and what the 21% remaining outside of the greenline.
at the last minute, when it was too late, clinton does a big push for a settlement – and then blames the palestinians for not accepting his “generous” and unreasonable “offer”. the only reason there was progress in the negotiations (see taba) was, as far as i can see, not because of clinton.
clinton did a good job of spin. and a lousy job of peace making.
I think they could just replace Tony Snow with a continuous video loop of Tony Snow. It’s not like the replacement would actually respond to questions, right? At least we wouldn’t have to pay a video monitor running “Best of Tony.”
cleter @ 120
Problem solved! Brilliant, Cleter!
retirin’ in five @ 98
No one expects the spineless inquisition!
cleter @ 118
And then they’d only have to pay Tony a royalty.
montag @ 102
Clinton, a fine politician, did his best to broker a peace that was advantageous to Israel, and might have succeeded if not for an assassin and his beneficiary Netanyahu. Hillary Clinton did her best, too, going so far as to hug Arafat’s wife (for which she was demagogically attacked by Giuliani). The notion that we should be an “honest broker” ended with Bush I. The Clintons might be the best we can expect on this issue, which is not very much.
cleter @ 111
spew alert!
oh, please, if it’s a rethug, it gotta be otter
EvilDrPuma @ 123
Butch Otter.
Jimmy Carter was the man who did a far better job on peace in the Middle East than anyone else I can think of. And as to Hillary working toward peace in the Middle East? Tell that to the Iraqis, the Palestinians, our dead soldiers and their families, and the possible new victims of her, “we need to prepare for the next war”.
Peterr @ 121
As my p*k*r playing buddy says;
No one expects lowest pair.
I think that works for JM.
Edited and released by Mods
selise @ 119
I agree with Selise on this. Plus Hillary will owe Murdoch, the DNC and the rest of the neo-cons big time. Her approach to the Middle East will be whatever AIP*C wants it to be.
Scarborough:
“What..is..with..the..Republican..Party?????” then he goes on to name them…
hee, hee, hee.
rwcole @ 59
Isn’t that the reasoning of the Allawi supporters? This is beginning to look SO much like Vietnam, when we were playing musical chairs with the leadership.
Bob in HI
rwcole @ 110
Some of the historical notes on Madrid, and Oslo, suggest that the intentions of the Israelis was to sandbag both conferences, which they did (their excuse, in some ways an understandable one, was that Arafat just wasn’t going to go along with the terms, regardless of what he said publicly). But, Clinton’s negotiators were all aware of the Israelis’ intentions coming in, and didn’t do much to dissuade them.
Compared to what was necessary to truly resolve the problem, it was another dog and pony show. That’s why it’s still a mess now. Can’t give Clinton props for solving a problem, when he didn’t do anything of the sort….
cleter @ 127
another dyke-otter-me to ponder
Peterr @ 121
New keyboard! Stat!
AAAK!
I used a word the filters don’t like.
Sorry Mods.
Bustednuckles @ 133
“Lieberman?” Nope, that’s not it.
bobschacht @ 111
M’self, I think it’s long past the rearranging the deck chairs point. They’re now trying to organize charade teams on the lifeboats.
EvilDrPuma @ 136
What kind of . . .
I wonder if Butch Otter has his own theme song, like “Black Adder”? Butch Ot-ter! Butch Ot-ter!
That would be sweet.
catfood @ 31
And since most Republicans would probably prefer zombie Reagan to any of their current candidates, the two countries could get along great, just like in the old days!
cleter @ 137
“The Butch Otter is a venomous reptile…”
brendan @ 68
Once again, I am ashamed of my party.
Bob in HI
Texas h*ld*m type of game.
Edited and released by Mods
Oklahoma kiddo @ 128
anyone who could get Begin and Sadat to declare peace has my undying admiration. IMOP nothing much positive has happened since.
Buchanan: Repubs are arrogant, corrupt, and seedy..
Hee, hee, hee.
LS @ 129
On…the…national….level…they are…filled…with…
the biggest bunch of flaming self-loathing closet cases in the history of represenative government.
Redshift @ 140
I think it should be abu-Gonzales. He already has a prison named after him. He could do a nice job there of “oversight.”
selise @ 119
Memories. The “generous offer” was my introduction to the evil that is Tom Friedman. He was the one who introduced us this big lie in a column that took the tone “psst, I have it on good authority…”.
Ding, ding, ding with the mention of George H.W. Bush. He was the one who got the “peace process” going at Madrid and he used (tried, anyway) the stick on the Israelis, threatening to withhold guaranteed loans to Shamir, a factor in his defeat to Clinton.
kirk murphy @ 145
Yousa!
Oh no, Allawi is one of the boys.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles…..68757.html
Stone cold killer, allegedly.
kirk murphy @ 145
Must. stop. laughing. outloud. at. work!
Hugh @ 85
I hope you’re right, but here’s my thinking: The Kurds will never have a better chance and will declare independence no matter what happens in the rest of Iraq, so they’ll accept a deal, especially if it helps them get Kirkuk.If it brings a measure of peace to Iraq Sistani would go for it, conditionally. Is it possible that Sadr would accept the deal purely for the purpose of keeping Allawi close enough to cut his throat? I think Sadr’s going to wind up in charge-that’s the condition Sistani accepts for temporarily tolerating Allawi.
(peering through the fog)
Bustednuckles @ 136
Refresh your browser and all shall be revealed
I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I don’t want Mr. Clinton back in the WH.
I’ll take Edwards, Kucinich, Richardson or Clark. Gore would be best.
cleter @ 126
otter what?
AAK!
I did it again!
So Sorry Mods.
Thats it, Im going back to work and lurk.
Richmond @ 117
I believe she said the rumor was that his radio show was being canceled, not his TV show.
kirk murphy @ 152
Butch Otter change his name.
EvilDrPuma @ 37
Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) announced today that he has been selected to be the new national spokesperson for Requip.
Redshift @ 156
wishful thinking I guess. :-(
Hugh @ 60
I got it. I got it. The perfect choice for this Whitehouse
BigMitch @ 156
707!
er, part of the potency of the ‘rearranging deck chairs’ metaphor is that this activity prevents one from taking meaningful action on the real problem, instead making symbolic changes that will be irrelevant once the ship is sunk.
kind of like pursuing ‘investigations’ that will be easily stonewalled into election year rather than impeachment, which, even if it eventually fails, at least has a chance of being a significant enough annoyance to the regime to avert a war against Iran.
you never score if you don’t shoot on goal, assuming for the moment that the (D) team wants to score, rather than just waiting until the fix comes in.
EvilDrPuma @ 159
to Jerry Mathers.
If you are going to discuss what went wrong in Palestinian-Israeli negotiations, I am surprised no one has mentioned the pernicious role of our neocon Middle East negotiator Dennis Ross.
john in sacramento @ 158
I thought it was going to be a sock puppet.
punaise @ 161
“Ward, don’t you think you were a little hard on the Beaver last night?”
EvilDrPuma @ 167
They’ve been doing amazing things with sock puppets these days…
Richmond @ 159
Hey, any cancellation takes money out of O’Really’s pockets. Not a bad thing, if you’ve got some belief in karmic justice.
Jim Clausen @ 145
This is a misunderstanding of history. Sadat got Begin to declare peace by defeating the Israelis (in political terms) 1973. It took a war to get them to table over the Sinai.
Does the “you broke it you bought it” philosophy apply to, say, a case of rape? Or is using the “Colin Powell Rule” for every situation just stupid?
Bustednuckles @ 157
I want to know how you rig up a monitor to the lift in the shop, so you can lurk while you work.
brendan @ 147
another reason to despise friedman. for anyone who’s interested, here’s the truth about the “generous” offer.
As I keep saying, this is entirely consistent with the Washington Consensus.
1) The US determines the political future of Iraq.
2) That future must include US military bases in Iraq
3) The government must be pro-America
4) The government will not have access to national defense capability
5) Government policy will be set by the US
Of course there is no chance that an English speaking exile who has worked for the CIA would be elected as the Iraqi head of state in a democratic Iraq. There isn’t even any way that a pro-US exile who worked for the CIA could come to power in the Iraq unless installed by the US.
This current sequence of events is exploding the propaganda that there is a sovereign state in Iraq. There isn’t one. There hasn’t been one. The US seeks a satrap. Maliki has failed in that role. Allawi is seen as someone who can play that role more reliably. It’s that simple.
montag @ 166
Now, see, my sense of karmic justice would be satisfied if O’Reilly had been in the stall next to Larry Craig.
Yes. Applying a theory of warfare to a rape victim is stupid.
good ond punaise@133
LMAO
EvilDrPuma @ 174
My Evilest Dr.:
Are you imbibing this lovely afternoon?
RonD @ 151
If the Kurds declare independence, they will be invaded by Turkey. The Kurds are portrayed as the political cagey ones but they have failed spectacularly to come to some kind of agreement with Turkey about PKK bases in Northern Iraq, a necessary pre-condition for any such declaration.
kdh22 @ 175
I’m on nothin’ but ice water and adrenaline.
Hugh @ 164
good point. but, i blame clinton for giving him that role.
and, if true, this has me worried about obama.
“Butch Otter”
“Scooter Libby”
“Newt Gingrich”
“Turdblossom”
Dang, why do the Republicans take all the good nicknames?
EvilDrPuma @ 175
Mine would have been if it had been the Mittster….
Of course, with Republicans, washroom stalls are like stuffing VW beetles forty years ago… how many can you cram in one?
That place needs a good, old fahioned tyrant. Let’s just get rid of this Prime Minister thing. It sounds way too weak. Let’s get some military guy in there who will support our interests at the expense of the Iraqis’ freedom. That’s the way this shit used to be done. I heard Noriega just got out of prison.
EvilDrPuma @ 179
That’s a good combo for you!
Hugh, is it possible that the Kurds think they can deflect a Turkish invasion by hiding behind US forces in the area?
The calculus I’m afraid of is the “we’ll never have a better chance” deduction. People at that point tend to pull the trigger, IMO.
GeorgeSimian @ 185
More reasons to oppose the death penalty:
Prevents us from restoring useful tyrants.
kdh22 @ 182
Thanks, I’m here all week. Try the veal.
its just otter-ly ridirulous… bathroomstall craig presser coming up…..
rwcole @ 59
My only answer to that is to reiterate this:
peanutbutter @ 2
The answer is still no.
Democracy isn’t the worst thing that happened to Iraq, and the “these people can only be controlled by a strongman” is BS. The worst thing is faux “democracy” implemented from the top down by an occupying power using people who fundamentally don’t believe in government, while the entire infrastructure that allows a government to work was either deliberately dismantled or allowed to be looted through negligence. That’s not to say that it would have worked if done better or that it was a good idea to invade in the first place, just that the fatal ingredient in the brew isn’t democracy.
A dictator may emerge and re-establish order before a decent government exists there again (if it ever does), but it’s sure as hell not going to be one that we put in place, without control over local armed forces. It’s yet another case where it would be the height of hubris for any of us to declare what Iraq “needs.”
RonD @ 186
There is talk of a US Air Force base being built in Kurd territory, northeast of Kirkuk.
If that comes to be, there’s no telling how Turkey would interpret it all….
selise @ 182
I think it is in order to get election support from that community. Clearly, Obama is not a neocon. He was against the war, before the war. He’s campaigning. Just because he is given advice doesn’t mean he’ll follow it.
juslin @ 190
please oh please, let him wear tap shoes…
scarborough shouldn’t be so happy – didnt HE have a scandalous moment with a secretary hmmmmmmmmmmmm – who ended up i think DEAD!!
GeorgeSimian @ 185
Noriega OK’d to be extradited to France
Larry Craig’s presser will include a foreign policy statement: he is “coming out” in favor of partition.
Selise @ 182
from the link
(emphases mine)
any guesses as to who will get shafted if he is nominated or elected?
BigMitch @ 160
He’s also got a position waiting with the NRA to get more hirsute gays in the organization. They are going to run it with the campaign slogan: “The NRA…protecting our right to arm “bears’!”
RonD @ 184
Of course, the Kurds declaring independence would undermine Bush’s Iraq policy. Also we have about 100 troops in Kurdistan and the Turks have around 300,000 on their side of the border. The math speaks for itself.
juslin @ 195
The only part of that I know of is that his secretary was found dead at her desk, and I think they believed it was from natural causes. Other than that, is there more?
juslin @ 193
Realllly?? I didn’t know that about Bad Mojo JoJo.
That’s an impressive partition- nice n clean- modern too!
jayackroyd @ 174
You do realize that what you are saying here conflicts with everything our President has told us. Democracy, freedom, peace through war, and the purple fingers of free elections in a democratic Eye racky republic is happening.
My question is this: Is our children learning?
Richmond @ 160
Well, it’s a start.
back to iraq – isn’t turkey massing at the border to attack the kurds ASAP?
“No soveriegn state of Iraq?”
No shit?
We’ll extradite Noriega, but not Orlando Bosch or Luis Posada Carriles.
Unreal.
punaise @ 197
Rats – I was hoping for:
“Sen McConnell, tear down that veil!”
Tithonia @ 32
I can’t speak for anyone but if you live around Nevada City or Grass Valley there might be something going on that day
“Installing Allawi as a new shiny object in Iraq, gives them an opportunity for more Friedman Units.”
“Diane, Richmond, and Brendan are all hitting the nail on eets leetle head, perfectly.”
I disagree. This is small thinking. Number one, we aren’t going to leave. Period. Never was the plan, isn’t now. They don’t need excuses for another FU. That’s pundit/spokesperson talk for domestic consumption.
What they are doing is a shift in tactics out of necessity (Maliki’s talks with Iran and security agreements with Syria, for example). Strategy has never changed.
We won’t be leaving Iraq. Until people include this in their assessments and judgments about current events, any conclusions are bound to be off the mark. All IMHO, of course.
New thread upstairs
What
there is new threadage up yonder
sporkovat @ 196
no. and i don’t like the game playing (if that’s what this is).
p.s. to all obama supporters. my real problem is with ross… i don’t pretend to know what kind of foreign policy a president obama would have – maybe i’d love it. but i really don’t like ross.
kirk murphy @ 209
LOL
bmaz @ 12
skipping replies as am at work/rushed — I think thisis a GREAT IDEA!! I was already thinking about making some kind of button/pin w/ pic of Constitution and words “Constitution Day.”‘
BIG demos that day – maybe some “Good Riddance Berto” signs among the Constitution signs?
LS @ 201
Doesn’t look like more!?
http://www.americanpolitics.co…..sutis.html
LS @ 192
Who says it’s “advice”?
This battle was lost almost two decades ago. Our choices on Israeli-Palestinian run a spectrum from neocon thru ultra-neocon through neo-genocidal. There’s no organized constituency in this country for an equitable peace, aside from the people with Palestinian flags who show up at marches (and they’re probably paid by A*P*C to do this).
Obama’s heart is good, but that matters little. It’s buying into the MSM’s narratives of individual dramas and personal narratives to believe a one-term Senator can stem a political tide, especially a politician warmly spoken of by Marty Peretz and David Brooks (that said — and i’m repeating myself here — Haaretz ranked him last of 17 presidential candidates for how “pro-Israeli” he is).
Redshift @ 190
My guess is that we’re already on Plan C or D right now. Plan A was to install Con-man Chalabi as virtual dictator via the CPA. Had the Bushies been successful in that, I wonder if we would have seen anything like votes on a constitution or a parliament, except under some very strict rules keeping Chalabi in control.
Sistani boogered that up for the neo-cons by insisting on elections when he did. Without Chalabi wangling his way in first, those effectively kept him out of absolute power.
The neo-cons backed the wrong horse on win-only bet. With no place or show bets, they likely figured the best thing to do was to unleash chaos. If the object was, ultimately, to profit off of the war, they would have achieved that objective with either Chalabi in or with utter devolution of society.
Otter?
Flounder…
come out come out wherever you are…sung to closeted repugs lol
punaise @ 197
BTW Craig asserted that he didn’t consult a lawyer…but a week after the arrest he called the Airport Security and told them TWICE that he needed some information FOR his legal representatives. When the police provided him with said information, including the name of the associate district attorney handling the case, he said “That’s just what I need”.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/im…..report.pdf
And yet he certainly sent in a form (how obtained) that asseted that he had no legal counsel representing him when he submitted his guilty plea.
punaise @ 197
…after much stalling.
RonD @ 208
They are darlings of the Miami Cuban Republican voting block. The old Cuban guard is getting very old, but they still wield a lot of power. The good news is that their grandchildren are beginning to disrespect the alliance.
can’t get Craig’s presser on local news (no cable)
can anyone provide a blow-by-blow?
Cliff Varnell @ 221
BLUTO! ;-)
New thread running.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..on-second/
He’s not gay and never has been.
Well, glad that’s cleared up.
montag @ 220
This is succinct a description of what happened as I’ve seen.
I want to become a Very Serious Person in foreign affairs, so have been reading Machiavelli. Machiavelli recommends avoiding reliance on local toadies, espectially after having taken over a principality through wickedness.
“No reason to think Hillary would be any different.”
RCole:
How about the reason that she supported the invasion, and until a few short months before the mid-terms, when she saw the polling on the wall, she supported the occupation.
In fact, she still supports it, and she’s now mouthing the republican exculpatory shitspeak that it’s the Maliki Government’s fault that Iraq is a hellhole of violence and chaos.
Any of that reason enough to think that she’s not gonna come close to bringing peace to the mid-east?
One thing of some relevance to the clusterfuck, is that referendum which is constitutionally-mandated to take place up north by the end of this year, to decide who controls Kirkuk.
Bush simply HAS to get that postponed, or it will open up an entirely new 55 gallon drum of worms for him.
A lot of Kurds see that as a red-line, non-negotiable issue, since it’s THE foundation of their plan for eventual statehood. I don’t know what bush can offer them to put off the referendum, but it aint gonna be cheap. One of his balls is liable to wind up on permanent deposit in the First National Bank of Kurdistan.
It’s good politics to blame Maliki, after all he is just a goon for the Shiite militias. However I am taking Mark Shields analysis seriously on the last Newshour. He says the Iraq situation is going to deteriorate and collapse and the debate now in Washington involves the parties positioning themselves for who’s to blame for “losing Iraq.” The Repubs will blame it on the “cut and run” Dems for pulling back the “surge” prematurely and the Dems will blame it on the incompetent war plans and the corrupt, and incompetent Shiite Government, as well as the corrupt and incompetent Bush administration.
And of course any politician knows we should never blame the American people for supporting such an tragic war to begin with and the resultant failure with its manifold consequences.
Bill R.:
The BlameGame; it’s what’s for lunch.
The alternative is to let the bushturds dump it in the dems laps, and get out of town to sharpen their chainshaws and go with the “We were winning until…” bullshit.
Let the game begin. I believe it was one george dubya who pulled the trigger, aided by near-unanaimous support from his party.
At this point, I think we can trust the american people to sort it out. :o)