Just a few random thoughts on the tragic demise of Larry Craig’s (R-Men’s Room) political career:
1) While I will never entirely understand the existence of gay Republicans, it’s certainly not surprising that every single one of them in elected office would be in the closet. If Republicans don’t believe gays are entitled to get married or serve in the military, they sure as hell won’t knowingly vote for one to represent them in Congress.
That being said, and considering that getting outed is career suicide for an elected Republican, I’m always amazed when one of them shows so little discretion.
2) Can we please retire the notion that sexual orientation is a choice? Why on earth would a Larry Craig (R-Stallabama) or a Ted Haggard choose to be gay? I just don’t think “to piss off the liberals” really works here.
3) CREW asks an interesting question: Why was the GOP Senate leadership on board with an ethics investigation for Craig (R-RR), but not for Vitter? I think it’s about 80% homophobia, and 20% anger that he was practically asking to get caught. At least Vitter indulged his diaper fetish in private.
4) So far, it doesn’t look like the media is very excited about this story, and it will probably be all but forgotten in a few days. I have come up with a perfectly reasonable, innocent explanation for why the media is always so much more interested in Democratic scandals, and why they always make a point to identify Democrats in trouble, but not Republicans (or else they misidentify the Republicans as Democrats).
It’s very simple: Republicans being sleazy sexual hypocrites or just plain criminals isn’t news – it’s like reporting that the sun rose in the East. “Ho hum, a bunch of politicians got busted for being crooks… but one of them was a Democrat this time!” Which is not to say that there aren’t Democratic crooks – it’s just not as commonplace, and therefore needs to be pointed out as an exception condition.
My theory also explains why the media doesn’t like to report on the Bush administration lying, breaking the law, or just generally fucking up. It would only be news if they didn’t.
[Note: Tongue and cheek may be closer than they appear.]
Related posts:
- Greg Craig in Trouble – But for What?
- Leak Blames Ousted Counsel Craig for Dawn Johnsen’s Stalled Confirmation
- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to Be Tried in NYC, al-Nashiri by Military Commission, No Mention of Abu Zubaydah; WH Counsel Craig to Resign
- Ezra Klein’s Baucus Wish List: One of These Things is Not Like the Others
- Max Tax Distribution List Includes Lobbyists, but Not White House
Spotlight
hey Eli!
2
wide uno
Hiya, LL!
Do you know what burn’s Rudy butt besides a flame this high?
Senator Christopher J. Dodd is set to accept the endorsement of the International Association of Fire Fighters tomorrow. The union’s decision — in choosing Mr. Dodd over the top tier of Democratic candidates — lends a little heft to the Connecticut lawmaker’s campaign, which emphasized how the organization’s support helped Senator John Kerry’s 2004 campaign in Iowa.
allan_in_upstate @ 3
I was sooo tempted to ask whether “wide stance” was anything like “big tent”, but I didn’t think it was quite worthy…
Is he still NOT gay?
I’m not gay! I’ve never been gay!
Hey, Eli. Evening everybody. What a fun news week so far, huh?
Query: how long was Morton Kondracke’s Roll Call sitting on this story?
It certainly has the appearance of a bright shiny object, kept in reserve for a rainy day.
ccmask @ 5
I was really happy about that – Dodd is actually my favorite among the current candidates.
Can we please retire the notion that sexual orientation is a choice?
Who we is? This seems like the choir up here in the Lake.
Goopers are life support systems for US Flag pins.
Larry Craig (R-Stallabama)
hee hee
Hiya, LooHoo!
Damn, gotta be quick around here…!!!
I love the American Flag lapel pin in Craig’s mugshot. Nice touch.
Eli @ 11
Yeah, this made me happy too.
all this fun is too much for a rad-lib to bear hehehe
raven @ 12
Not among ourselves – I just want to see it retired *everywhere*. It’s moronic.
Wow! A.B. Stoddard sure looks cute in that purple polka dot dress.
Oh my God A.B…. Oh God… Oh A.B…. Oh my God…
kneepads!
ding!
Eli @ 20
Roger
Eli, I am still offended he was in the disability stall. Leave that for the disabled, people!
The Craig story is the funniest for many weeks- “thanks Larry for bringing a little joy into all our lives– please give some more press conferences- I wanna hear the one again where you plead guilty cause you forgot to talk to a lawyer- that’s my favorite if yer takin requests!”
In the mug shot on the right it looks like Craig’s face has fallen flat, like “oh shit, my career is SO over…”
NEWS FLASH!
Larry Craig still says he’s NOT GAY!!!
Having now got over that one, one must wonder what degree of self-loathing must he harbor, given his voting record? Almost makes you feel sorry for him … NAH!! Can’t do it! Look out, Larry! Whole freakin’ truckload of karma bearing down on you!!
rwcole @ 28
you know senators can’t afford lawyers.
OMG! Tucker has been bothered in Men’s rooms! Yikes. It’s an epidemic. It’s the poo flu virus.
TexBetsy @ 25
If his stance is so wide that it cannot be contained within the bounds of a disabled stall, then there must be *something* wrong with him.
On Larry King…there is a distinction between a man who has sex with men versus a man who is gay. Oh, now I get it. What?
F*cker was jes saying he was ‘bothered’ in a Public Restroom!!! ;-)
Tucker is blaming it on Clinton.
Now, Scarborough is, too.
rwcole @ 26
Yeah, I need a lawyer to tell me that pleading guilty is a bad idea…
My opinion.
Gay republicans seek power.
They know that they can get power through the republican party.
They’re like other gays in one respect, but horrible, vicious people in another respect.
But I sort of get it.
The legacy of treating gays (and lesbians) so badly in this country.
The reality: most Americans are manipulated by sexual stereotypes.
Craig’s campaign is now officially stalled.
Speaking of endorsements, I received an email from Rick Noriega today…
:)
hmmm tucker is a lil pervy to me lol
ccmask @ 37
Electile Dysfunction…!!! ;-)
Just so you know, Larry Craig is NOT GAY.
But the men he was having sex with? Definitely.
(ba-dum-bum)
stole that from Mike Rogers
yeah thats right its all clinton’s fault!!!!
CTuttle @ 33
Why does that not surprise me.
I think the answer to CREW’s question at #3 above is simple. This happened back in June, and Craig stood before the judge, pleaded guilty to it, paid his fine, and went on his way. I think Craig neglected to mention to the leadership, “Oh, by the way, as I was changing planes in Minneapolis earlier this summer, I got busted by a vice cop.”
The leadership of either party just hates surprises.
They really hate surprises that involve cops, badges, judges, plea bargains, and their members.
They really, really hate surprises that they learn about from the press.
Vitter may have screwed up, but I’m betting that before he outted himself as being on the DC Madam’s phone list, he called up the GOP leadership and told them to get ready. I doubt that Craig did.
Jonathan @ 36
Sure, I just think it’s bizarre that they would be Republicans in the first place. But I guess being gay doesn’t preclude you from being an authoritarian asshole.
wangdangdoodle @ 40
I met Noriega at YKos2. Spent about 10 min with him. I was impressed.
glad you tossed that one out there…
Jane Hamsher @ 41
Does that fall under “constituent services”?
Craig doesn’t look healthy. Not just in a perverted sort of way, but he looks gray. And his attempt to look pissed off at his presser did not come off at all.
If this message became headline news all across America and much of the world about you, would you hold a presser and declare that you’re not gay? Or would you try to disappear for a while?
That was when Tucker was still wearin the bow tie- so it doesn’t count.
Oops…Carville, there is always the possibility that there will be other shoes to drop here…why now?
Hmmm…Larry Flynt??
Blogger “Rebecca” wrote a fiery tirade on the site Monday morning attacking Mrs. Edwards choice to bring her two small children, Jack and Emma Claire, on the campaign trail with her while her husband, John Edwards runs for president.
“…. you are being a terrible mother, forcing your young children, who should be in SCHOOL, to ride in buses and talk to the press when they obviously don’t want to. This election is NOT ABOUT THEM, ” blogger Rebecca writes.
TexBetsy @ 25
Sorry, TexBetsy, I don’t think being considerate was what he had in mind.
Something OT but important
TexBetsy @ 31
Sen. Craig is well-known for his acts of solidarity with the oppressed.
This summer was his Guantanamo solidarity summer.
He thought the square of paper on the stall floor was carpeting for his cell.
Larry Craig is as straight as the report from National Commission on Terrorist Attacts Upon the United States.
He was in the disability stall hopin that some guy would come in who couldn’t run very fast.
ccmask @ 54
Family values????
One can assume she’s home-schooling them and that they’re learning something about our country’s geography and political system on the rood, as well as being WITH MOM & DAD all the time!
Get a grip lady!
LoudounLib @ 48
No — Craig was in Minnesota at the time.
But it could have been “voter outreach.”
Hey… can we all pull our heads out of the MPLS urinal for a minute to hear what Bush said today re Iran???
I think this could be it… or at least near… I’m sure the White House loves the distraction that Craig is providing while they expand their aggression in the middle east.
Here’s what Bush said TODAY… reported by BBC, no one in US is reporting it.. link below:
“I have authorised our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities,” he said.
The BBC’s Justin Webb, in Washington, says this looks like a conscious effort by the White House to elevate the tension between Washington and Teheran to a new level.
Such an effort might be designed to avoid the need for armed conflict or might equally be an effort to bring that conflict about, our correspondent says.
Shortly after Mr Bush made his address, Iranian officials reported that seven Iranians working for the country’s electricity ministry had been arrested in Baghdad by US forces.
‘Nuclear threat’
In a wide-ranging speech, Mr Bush also tackled the issue of Iran’s nuclear ambition – which Tehran insists is solely to provide power, but the US believes may be used to develop weapons.
“Iran’s active pursuit of technology that could lead to nuclear weapons threatens to put a region already known for instability and violence under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust,” he said.
“Iran’s actions threaten the security of nations everywhere.
“We will confront this danger before it is too late.”
It was Mr Bush’s second major speech on foreign policy in a week.
Correspondents say he is seeking to rally support for the so-called surge strategy of sending more troops to Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6967502.stm
Glenn Greenwald and I and others (notabley Digby) predicted it in Glenn’s live chat… I think it is very close to happening.
Peterr @ 46
and their members’ members.
If the media can ignore Jeff Gannon – a gay prostitute frequenting the White House – they can ignore anything.
On the subject of framing, I was listening to the BBC on NPR this afternoon and almost fell out of my car. The BBC Washington correspondant was talking about how the success of “The Surge” was going to hurt the Democrats politically. He also treated the Patreus report as if it was going to be written independent of the White House. Where do they find these people ? It is disheartening to think that the rot has spread to the BBC, but then, they did ban Winston Churchill for much of the 1930s, so they are not immune to politicization.
OT, but how long has Ed Schultz been broadcasting from Fargo, N.D. on C-span 2? They’re on right now and just discussed the Larry Craig thing, and right now they’re talking to Byron Dorgan about Fraud and corruption in Iraq (disappearance of weapons, Halliburton, etc.)
raven,
How are things in Athens?
kirk murphy @ 63
ROFL!
Saw this one on CNN: “I guess Senator Craig suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.”
Jonathan @ 36
The contrast of “power over” v. “power to” seems very apt here.
The contrast is Erich Fromm’s, and an FDL poster earlier this week cited it in a different context.
The idea is that those who do not have the “power to” _____________ (fill in the blank–love, create, be sexual in the way that truly suits them) seek “power over” others to compensate.
Fits to a T.
Peterr @ 59
I think you mean “voter outreacharound”.
Too bad this didn’t come to the surface AFTER the deadline to run in 08.
raven @ 54
Wow, I pray for a speedy recovery…!!!
Mad Dogs @ 68
nice!
uote>Jonathan @ 64
Coolin off just a bit. Five days till kickoff. I’m glad it’s a night game so I can watch the Illini play Mizzou!
What exactly does Republican Senator Craig mean by “this failure”…his failure to plead “not guilty”?
LoudounLib @ 14
Personally, I like his twaddle in that booking photo
How are ya tonight, darlin?
fredo gone – rove gone – poor chimpy is out of the loop….who’s gonna dispense his MEDS now?????
neurophius @ 73
Failure to launch.
re: Craig: if this dumb-ass keeps saying he did nothing wrong, it would be *very* simple for, say, a deputy prosecutor in Minnesota, to petition the Court to have Craig’s guilty plea rescinded, and ask that the matter be set for trial.
cc in nm @ 60
Yup. One of these mornings we’re gonna wake up to the news. Could be tomorrow. Now, is a good time for them to do it, because Congress is out of town, and everybody in the Administration is scattered. I have no doubt whatsoever, that they will follow through on this.
Dan Savage on CNN had a calm quiet take on it, and managed to sting the network as well for showing “B” roll pictures of children at play in the park during the story.
Here’s part of Savage’s take at http://slog.thestranger.com/
When I was on CNN tonight I wanted to say for the record—ran out of time—that some openly gay men do frequent skeezy toilets looking for anonymous sex. (Hey there, George Michael.) Not because they have to, like a Larry Craig, but because they want to—for the sport of it, the risk, the thrills, the head. But these gay men are, by my scientifically sound estimation, a very small percentage of the men getting it on in toilets. The overwhelming majority of men cruising toilets—in the US, anyway (the UK is a different story)—are desperate, pathetic closet cases.
There are out and proud gay men that idealize the kind of bathroom antics that Sen. Craig pleaded guilty to and is currently on probation for. Some gay men are nostalgic for the days when parks, toilets, and bathhouses were all we had.
But it would seem that openly gay men who cruise public toilets are, well, better at it—or better at getting away with it. Because whenever you read about a bust at a public sex venue it’s only straight-identified closet cases that were rounded up, carted off, and ruined.
TexBetsy @ 25
But he needed the extra room between the toilet and stall wall for that “wide potty stance”, doncha know?
Peterr @ 59
There, fixed it for you.
Anyone know how to locate the number of Iranian refugees admitted to the US in 2002, 2003, 04, 05, 06 & 07? What type of stat is that?
Larry Craig is the poster child for the Republican Potty
Jonathan @ 64
Good evening, comrades.
jayt @ 77
Yep. And then there’s that whole “one year probation” deal. Has anyone heard what that’s about? Im guessing it’s nothing more than “keep it zipped for a year, or else.” Still, I would think that spouting off to the media that what you said to the judge when he asked “Did you do it?” was a lie would not be a good idea.
james @ 84
Glad Jonathon wasn’t in on that last conversation!
and craig’s wife – tell me – what was she there for???? she knows he’s gay – she’s just a cover for his closeted(no longer) ass….
Cottaging is a gay slang term for having casual sex in a public lavatory (a cottage) or for cruising for sex in public lavatories with the intention of having sex there or elsewhere. Cottaging in the United Kingdom has been noted as early as 1729.[wiki}
It would be very christian for gay rights groups to come out in support of Craig- have a parade past his house-.
Lew Koch @ 79
That was certainly a mouthful, Lew!!! ;-)
albert fall @ 67
I’m not a shrink.
But I think sexuality and power go hand in hand.
If you frustrate one, you increase the other.
ccmask @ 88
Republican sex scandals – a real cottage industry
RE: cc in nm at 60
I heard the President say those words himself today on the radio. I also heard the elected Iranian President Ahmadinejad say that US influence in Iraq was collapsing and that Iran, with its friends, including Saudi Arabia, would fill in the vacuum. That little bit about the Saudi’s passed totally unnoticed by the press, but I suspect not by Dick Cheney.
All in all, I thought that Ahmadinejad made more sense, which does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
raven @ 86
Ahh, he’s cool…I wouldn;t have fragged him…..I don’t think.
TexBetsy @ 25
Why do you say that? I haven’t seen anything that indicated it was a handicap stall. What’s your source on that?
I saw earlier today – sorry, no link, don’t remember where it was – that part of the guilty plea agreement included a (signed) statement that Mr. Craig would not later attempt to proclaim his innocence. (Mighta been CNN online.) Lawyers among us, is that usual? Does Craig now proclaiming his innocence potentially bring some legal consequence?
james @ 84
Roger. Over.
Jonathan @ 91
I dunno – I’ve been sexually frustrated most of my life, yet have absolutely no desire for power…
juslin @ 39
Tucker is NOT GAY! ; )
There has been mumbling about that this story has somehow been ignored by the MSM. Not so. It’s been at the top of Yahoo, Google, and all of the cable news web sites all day.
james @ 94
Just wouldn’t want to trigger no flashbacks:) But then again he most likely wasn’t on the business end of one of those sticks.
Maggie @ 97
Saw video of the stall and the whole bathroom on Olbermann.
TexBetsy @ 27
Is that why those stalls are so large?
punaise @ 94
Sounds like a growth industry, too.
punaise @ 92
lol. Cottage Republicans.
punaise @ 92
Where’s the Republican Log Cabin fellers, in all this hullabaloo???
Cozumel @ 99
He’s not gay but he sure is a punk ass pretty boy.
somehow i hear flynt just laughing his ass off as the cover’s being pulled off the family values club – its too many to count lol
Balrog @ 100
I pretty much avoid those; it’s basically Just Another Story at NYT & WaPo, but maybe they’re too respectable…
How many log cabin rebubs are there?
Cozumel @ 99
Did Jane start this one too?
Marshall @ 93
Thanks LS and Marshall for responding… this has me really spooked.
wtf does he mean when he sas “I have authorized our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities” ???
In Iraq or in Iran?
Marshall, I also noted Ahmedinajad’s inclusion of Saudi Arabia in his comments.
ccmask @ 105
Who worship Cottage Cheesus.
Perverse as I am, I’ve been wondering if Trent Lott is envious of all the attention that Larry Craig’s been getting lately…. :)
A homophobic Republican Senator cruising an undercover cop for sex in an airport Men’s room.
Now THAT’S an intelligence failure.
regarding iran —–
US ’seizes Iranian group in Iraq’
from RawStory.com Headlines
Seven Iranians working for the Iranian Electricity Ministry have been arrested by US forces in Baghdad, the Iranian embassy says…
TexBetsy @ 110
Those numbers are kept in Cheney’s office with the number of Iraki immigrants for the years you asked about.
raven @ 101
Hey, don’t frag me.
I survived the Nam.
I don’t need no flashbacks.
Eli: Did you chip in for the fruit basket for Craig?
ccmask @ 107
Sorta like Log Cabin Republicans with the front door closed….
TexBetsy @ 116
Yeah, I’m picturing Dubya and Cheney repeating over & over again, “Please attack please attack please attack please attack…”
Jonathan @ 118
We was talkin about burnin and stirrin a while back.
as for lil fucker carlson – i didnt say he’s gay – a bit pervy for sure methinks and too into the clintons for some strange reason…..
“I have authorised our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities,” he said.
Picking a fight? You betcha.
And you don’t *even* want to hear my conspiracy theory about the connection between the subway system in D.C. being down two days in a row and the rumor that Al-Q is planning a “major attack in the West” this summer.
TexBetsy @ 116
I think they’re trying to provoke an Iranian response.
ccmask @ 119
No, I’ll get him some nuts later…
Eli @ 109
I see your point, but it’s how I measure spread of news.
Maybe Republican outrage is what made it hit the ‘Big Time’.
montag
Ya mean ol Trent’s gay? Who’d a thunk it- ya know he wore a fine cowboy hat n boots ta the Clusterfuck ranch–looked great.
james @ 119
I know how many Iraqi — damn few. Seeking to find out how many Iranian refugees. Because unless they ALL settle in central Texas and they’re all between 6th & 12th grades, there is a huge upswing in those numbers over the past 18 months.
For the first time ever, we are seeing more Iranian refugees enter this school system than refugees from all African countries combined.
Balrog @ 127
I still don’t think it’ll last, unless Craig doesn’t know the first rule about what you’re supposed to do when you’re in a hole.
cc in nm @ 112
I’m worried he’s gonna use pretexts to chase Iranians across the border so that an incident can occur where it becomes exigent and the commanders on the ground will have the authorization to take whatever actions they deem necessary.
The rules of engagement have now been expanded to engage Iranian nationals and if they happen to be Republican Guard troops weho have been designated terrorists and we can drag their bodies into Iraq to prove they were operating there, then Bush will have backed the Democrats into another corner from which they will not emerge unscathed or with their integrity unsullied with few exceptions.
No, we can’t. I realize that I’m swimming in shark and/or snark-infested water here, but sexual orientation is sometimes a choice. When it comes to sexual orientation, no sweeping generalizations are true. One size does NOT fit all. I noticed at least a decade ago that most discussions of sexual orientation have become intensely politicized. This is only partially about biology; it’s also (sometimes!) about socialization, and I’ll bet I get flamed for writing that. Here’s what (sometimes!) happens: In cases where choice may, in some ontological sense, be involved, it is decided (by some!) that the individual is “really” bisexual, rather than homosexual. This is useful, because it helps maintain the fiction that there is never any choice about sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is a complex issue involving complex roots that may lie in genetics and/or fetal development and/or infant development and/or socialization and/or one’s relationship with one’s parents (individually, with respect to sexual behavior). Well, I could go on and on, but this is only supposed to be a comment.
It strikes me as a bit odd that the people who tend to be pro-choice when it comes to abortions also tend to be anti-choice when it comes to sexual orientation.
Bob in HI
{ducking behind couch to avoid flying objects}
What other goopers are not gay?
Is Romney NOT gay?
rwcole @ 130
Oh, I was thinking about what a camera hog Lott has been. His being a cheerleader has absolutely nothing to do with it. :)
jayt @ 124
All we need is another “9/11″…or “Pearl Harbor”…something along those lines perhaps?
Jonathan @ 118
I was just talking about butter bars in general there, loo.
You woulda been one of us out there in the bush, I can feel it.
Fucking rock apes throwing rocks at us while we tried to sleep in the trees.
rwcole @ 135
He just has gay hair.
We’re all Craiged-out. We are heading outback to the Japanese lanterns and the pool. ;0)
RonD @ 115
Speaking of which, what incriminating evidence does Darth Cheney have on the Dem Waverers that could possibly top this nonsense???
raven and James,
Wished I could have served with both of you in the Nam.
Eli @ 20
At the risk of something or other, I do think it’s good to keep in mind several distinctions that not many people other than obsessive gender studies lecturers keep ’straight’. Here goes: heterosexual, lesbian, gay – these are sexual identities that most people assume are absolutely accurate indicators of the sort of sex (physical activities) each ‘identity’ engages in. In fact, however, there are significant numbers of heterosexual men who occasionally have a sexual encounter with another man. Ditto for lesbians who have the odd romp with a bloke. If you stop and look at actual behaviours, there is mass confusion all around. But we funny human beings do like for our sexual identities to be set in stone, as it were (which is one of the reasons bi-sexuals get a bum rap from both the straight and gay communities). So we tend to insist that anyone who ever gets caught doin’ it with someone of the same sex IS actually GAY. But that ain’t necessarily so. In fact, it just perpetuates the myth that everyones’ sexual behaviours line up exactly with their sexual identity. In actuality, well, things are more blurry than we like to acknowledge. Ok. Lecture-moment concluded. Cheers all
Peterr @ 85
Well…I guess he didn’t ‘do anything wrong….’ since these folks did not see fit to do anything…but then I didn’t even know they existed until The Great Orange Satan brought them to my attention.
Pay special attention to who the chairperson is.
LS @ 135
I don’t think it’ll take anything near that, Gulf of Tonkin will do.
Craig says he’s omnisexual
james @ 74
Just fine here James, how about you?
Sorry, stepped away for a bit.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 138
That sounds gay.
Jonathan @ 140
You would probably have had to send me to the clink!
LS @ 135
Well, the WTC was shut down on a weekend or two shortly before 9-11…
(oh shit – no more – Eli’s gonna ban me, heh)
rwcole @ 146
Funny, Craig always seemed metroLexusal to me….
montag @ 151
Either of those include farm animals?
I think the rumortism is contagious.
raven @ 143
You are so on the money…but it is all one and the same…false flag…provocation to continue the neocon agenda.
bobschacht @ 132
Hey, if someone wants to choose their sexual orientation, I’m all for it. I just don’t think it happens. Or if it does, it’s pretty rare.
In any case, the main purpose of the gay-by-choice meme is to make gayness a cultural issue, and to make homophobia and denial of gay marriage more acceptable. After all, they merely need to Not Be Gay, and then everything will be fine.
LS @ 135
LS, I agree with you one hundred percent. There is an exercise taking place in DC as we speak just like one was being carried out when 9/11 happened.
Be cognizant of what’s going on around you, always think two steps ahead and know where the exits are, keep your eyes on the door (Never ever sit with your back to the door), think as if you are expecting to be attacked at any minute.
But stay calm and go shopping…this is, after all,America for the time being.
raven @ 147
No. No.
I was an intelligence officer. I would have looked at you as having the ability to spot and assess.
I’m not trying to give away secrets, here.
Jonathan @ 140
I wish I’d never set foot in that fucking place.
Balrog @ 146
Uhoh, ya don’t want Lahoma mad atcha, would ya???
TexBetsy @ 152
Not unless Craig is cruising for sheep in a luxury car. :)
Ed Schultz just got done interviewing Mike Rogers of blogactive dot com about the Larry Craig story, as well as the fact that they had discussed Larry Craig around a year ago.
more breaking news!! craig is back IN the closet lmao
Here is a common criticism of non-Fox Republican skepticism over the war:
And here’s what I say in response. You’ve got to be kidding me. It’s been over four years already with no end in sight. Our current plan to stabilize the situation militarily to enable Iraq to constitute a government is a total failure. Putting aside the debatable “progress” of the military operation, which hardly seems worth the cost, their government is falling apart. Falling apart. The plan is failing. I don’t say it to be negative algernon. I say it because we need a NEW PLAN already. Not more of the same. If we can’t come up with a new clear path to success that involves staying in Iraq, guess what? We should leave. Harsh I know. Not what you want to hear. I know. A real bummer. Absolutely. But sometimes life is a real downer. Sometimes our plans, whatever their merits (personally I think nearly all of Bush’s plans have been hairbrained), don’t work. It’s not working.
And TR had a thing or two to say about situations like these. He said that cheerleading our way to failure is “morally treasonous.” Morally treasonous. Morally treasonous. I repeat the phrase because this is a hugely serious accusation. Coming from a right-winger. One of the best of them in fact. TR says we should speak about the truth. About reality.
Here the reality is that everyone with a shred of credibility, and I mean everyone even including the Brookings guys, agrees that Iraq is even more of a basket case politically than when we started this latest “surge” in it. In other words, everyone agrees that the goal of the latest surge is just not happening. It’s not happening algernon. It’s a dud. Just like the six duds before it. And this dud is breaking the backs of our military. So let’s come up with a clear plan for success in Iraq that we can execute or get our men and women out of there already. It’s time to stop upping the ante before it’s too late and to cut our losses already.
“The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.”
“Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star”, 149
May 7, 1918>
http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/quotes.htm
Eli @ 152
such easy wisdom
jayt @ 148
You are right. Me too, sorry Eli…got carried away…I’m just so worried.
montag @ 157
I can’t picture him in parachute pants
Hhhhhhmmmm @ 141
Well, I think it’s safe to say that if you seek out sex with the opposite sex, you are, to some degree, gay (I’m looking at it as a continuum, with bis in the middle). But I still don’t think you get to choose where you are on that continuum, although you can probably slide one way or the other a little bit.
jayt @ 124
No. Better get that out in the blogosphere, jayt. Like the WTC being shut down for repairs?
Craig’s first words in his speech today:
“I’d like to thank you all for coming out today.”
(But I’m not going to)
Ah Freud.
Balrog @ 166
carefully chosen?
Eli @ 152
Eli, I was gonna respond a little earlier to Bob, here in the Isles, it is a ‘choice’ in many instances, I solidly back Bob with that!!! This is Paradise…!!! *g*
james @ 155
James, FWIW, I’ve always felt that what I learned there served me well the rest of my life.
That’s a selfish view.
American GI’s and Vietnamese got horribly fucked over by the U.S. government.
TexBetsy @ 102
I watched KO and I didn’t see him specify that. I’ll check out the rerun later.
TexBetsy @ 82
Well, I don’t know you can get it annualized like that. You could get it in 10 year intervals from the Census. The primary between decennial census counts are from the American Community Survey (which is based on a sample). Other than that, it would have to be statistics straight from the immigration service, and they’re probably years behind in publishing their data.
Bob in HI
CTuttle @ 168
Okay, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But I bet there are a whole bunch of gays born to intolerant parents or intolerant societies, who really really wish they were straight, so they could get married, and not have to sneak around in fear of getting disowned or beaten up.
Maggie @ 172
He panned the stall and then the rest room. DEFINITELY the only wheelchair accessible stall. Trust me, it’s something I pay careful attention to.
Airport Cat @ 96
The WaPo has a story up on the whole Craig story, with side links to various court documents. The Petition to Plead Guilty [pdf] is one of them, and includes this:
Craig signed off on it, and so did the judge. Whether this frees Craig to publicly recant his plea at this point is probably why he has (finally) retained an attorney.
bobschacht @ 173
Don’t want to know how many live here. Want to know who was ADMITTED in each of those years.
famous thoughts of noam chomsky i recall from a few years ago…manufacturing consent by covert actions – soo i put nothing past this crowd in DC
I found this by googling. It is from a gay cruising bulletin board site, exactly the month that Craig was arrested. If this is accurate, there may be an element of entrapment going on in that particular trysting place. And if so, Sen. Craig might have pled guilty too soon. It appears that the only crime he is alleged to have committed was to solicit for sex, but if the cops are doing the soliciting, then where is the crime?
Not defending the senator, just looking at it as a defending lawyer might, though IANAL. I can’t provide the link because the site contains material of a sexual nature.
Well, I’m getting an education. I didn’t know that Byron Dorgan had held 17 hearings on waste, fraud and corruption in Iraq.
TexBetsy @ 102
Good catch, Betsy! I wondered how you knew that. I’m with ya!
Bob in HI
Jonathan @ 169
Looking at it that way, I’m well prepared for whatever comes down the pike here in the near future.
It also served to set my cynicism in stone when I realized our Air America guys were nothing more than heroin tranporters for the Vietnamese govt.
It also totally turned me off to wars because, you know, when you see dead little kids it ain’t cool whther they were terying to kill you or not.
But it has helped me to shut some arrogant as*holes up about this clusterf*ck even some West Point people. I won’t tolerate them spewing their glorification of this president and his war crimes in places where I happen to be and they have an audience enthralled like at parties or social gatherings. I’m not confrontational but I won’t abide the glorification of war.
And I do know that the Chinese were fighting in the South because I caught one, and GIs did use heroin and smoke pot and cut the ears off dead bodies, and all the other rot that some on the right are trying to hush up. I also know we left people there who are probably still there, guaranteed.
bobschacht @ 173
Annual statistics:
The Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, published by the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Office of Immigration Statistics (OIS).
As quoted here.
Um, Craig’s “demise” is anything but “tragic”. This is poetic justice at its finest.
Former Congressman Jim Kolbe (R-Camping Trip With Pages) is gay, but he’s not in Congress anymore.
OT, but I found a new political fact-check site today-it’s a joint project between Congressional Quarterly and The St. Petersburg Times (so we know it’s not a GOP operation), and looks to be really interesting.
Politifact.com
the odd romp with a bloke.
heh, I love that.
except that I’m now wondering whether my “romps” are “odd”…
bobschacht @ 179
Wow, that would require a really wide stance! Here’s what I thought was weird, his feet were facing forward, but it was his “left” hand that he used to run along the petition of the stall to his right. At least that is how I read it. Must be right-handed.
Eli @ 172
“…intolerant societies,” that’s the crux…!!! Hawaii, rebelled against the Puritanical regime that banned the language and the Hula, it stifled much of the oral history of the Hawaiians!!! :-(
Frank Probst @ 182
Sarcasm, dude.
the Craig story won’t just fade away. it will dribble out in serial version, on the in-stall-ment plan.
Very cool
UPDATE #6:
Oh. My. God.
There was an absolute army, an seemingly endless stretch of people marching from Frazier Hall to Mitch McConnell’s home. Simply mind blowing.
Mitch had corralled about 20 bikers to stand in front of his house and intimidate us, but they pissed their pants when they saw 300 chanting, sign carrying protesters.
Scroll Down on this Link
as an adult i dont care what consenting adults do – again its the RANK HYPOCRICY that brings attention to what you do….
Hope Craig doesn’t give up—”Fight on Craig—deliver a blow for justice- don’t let em shit all over ya- take a stand- be a man-” etc etc etc
If the flight route took Craig through MN, it is probably the route he takes routinely. You know like practically every week. Am I the only one wondering if this was merely the time he got caught?
We will probably never know, but wouldn’t be ironic if Craig’s previous activities were part of the reasons for the “civil complaints” to the airport police, which increased the police presence and thereby his chances of being caught?
Eli, I used to be quite certain that sexual orientation is wholly a matter of biological determinism.
I can’t lay my hand on it at the moment (no pun intended, but please don’t let that dicsourage anyone *g*), but IIRC a very well-designed study appears to describe a cohort of people (primarily female) who appear to have equal proclivities towards both genders.
Paradoxically enough, if orientation is (or “were to be”) biologically determined, this “OK with either” population would be expected to show up on a continuum of sexual orientations.
(IN genetics, a binary expression – “A” or “B” – is the exception, not the rule. Hence a continuum is wholly consistent with biologically determined orientation – even if one segment of the continuum appears to have volition regarding their sexual preferences.
(My academic blather aside, for the wing-nut righties any reason is enough to attack GLBT folk as “just having a lifestyle” – so I respect the reasons for concern about how this issue is addressed and discussed).
juslin @ 193
I disagree. My KID might walk into that restroom.
LS @ 162
okay…. something on topic on this thread. I’ve been puzzling over something re this whole oreal.
Could you guys pls enlighten someone who’s never engaged in bathroom stall sex… exactly how do two guys have sex underneath the sides of a stall?
Is it a blow job, a hand job or the real deal, so to speak?
CTuttle @ 156
I understand that she can dish out some nasty kinda silent treatment!
punaise @ 191
“Dribble out?” Well, yeah, I guess Craig’s old enough to have prostate problems. Speaking of which, did he give the other standard `pug excuse today, that he was “just there for a massage.” ?
kirk murphy @ 194
Yeah, your last point is really what I’m getting at. Of course, even if someone *chooses* to be gay, that still shouldn’t disqualify them from having the same rights as everyone else.
Well, the handicapped stall is probably pretty roomy. I guess the other guy could either slide under, or just go in when no-one’s looking.
texbet@195
i should’ve said in private – otherwise those actions are public lewdness ;o}
Hello. Excuse me. There are a lot of gay people who are also very intellegent people (need I point to the chior here). However, this guys crime is not that he is gay, but that he is a moron.
Just as sexual orientation is not a choice….brains are not a choice. You’ve got em or you don’t. Just so happens that a lot of gay people have em. I’m just sayin.
raven @ 12
Choice for gay men is in their DNA.
TexBetsy @ 175
I think the “Yearbook of Immigration Statistics” might be what you are looking for. If you click on the 2006 yearbook “data tables” link and select Table 3, it breaks down the number of people granted permanent resident status by both region and country. If you need more explanation or other stats, you can click on the pdf link to get the whole report and not just the data table.
We have a choir? Cool! Where do I audition?
james @ 180
James,
I knew a guy.
An army intelligence officer. 1LT
Went to language school with him (Cambodian, 47 weeks).
In Viet Nam, his job was to run an intelligence operation tracking shipments of heroin from Laos and Thailand into South Vietnam, heroin destined in part for U.S. troops in Viet Nam, but mostly destined for the U.S.
I’m getting old and giving up what I swore I’d never reveal.
cynic @ 203
Well, his crime is that he was trying to solicit sex in a public restroom. But that certainly flows from the moron part, especially considering that he’s a (widely) sitting US Senator.
John Edwards coming up on the Ed Schultz show on C-span 2. I guess C-span is trying something new, and this is a one time thing, but they will also be having some radio guys in this time slot, I guess, other days this week. Tom Hartman? on one day, can’t remember which day I’m not sure I got Tom’s name right either?
Did you hear Newsweek’s Richard Wolfe response to Keith O’s question re: Dumbya’s warmongering rhetoric today re: Iran?
Wolfe said that the worst part is the revelation that Dubya is only just now discovering how dangerous Iran is.
Can we get that warmongering a**hole Wolfe off Keith Olberman’s show? I think I am in the twilight zone.
Peterr you are amazing!
montag @ 157
Where’s Woody Allen when you need him???
Bob in HI
thom hartmann will be on friday’s c-span from 12-3pm in nyc at least
OK, next question. What would qualify an Iranian family for refugee status this year?
hackworth @ 209
Well Richard Wolfe is a Very Serious Person.
Jonathan @ 206
Good for you! Not an opiate for the people, but an opiate for the troops and the people….and why? To make it tolerable? Painless? Addicted? Aren’t there something like 200,000 homeless vets in the US today? Cannon fodder.
bobschacht @ 179
I don’t think he said that was the restroom in question. Just photos to go with the story was the impression I got.
TexBetsy @ 210
Long before Monica made it a dirty word, I was an intern in DC — specifically, at the German desk at the State Department. One of my jobs was to take questions like this and head upstairs to the State Dept library or get on the phone to find the answers.
If the internet had been around then, I would have gotten a lot less exercise.
There’s a lot of good data rolling around government websites. The trick is figuring out how to get the site to give it to you.
ccmask @ 13
Or vice versa more likely.. without that pin, they’re just brownshirt thugs and hypocritical to boot. For too many Americans (25% or so) that pin magically turns them into umimpeachable patriots, somehow
richard wolfe is pretty much a neocon and a newsweek person
james @ 155
AMEN, BROTHER.
By the way, the Iraq Veterans Against the War need money. Not our war anymore, but they got screwed a lot harder than those of us who were fortunate enough to make it back.
I’m just sayin.
also ot:
Court: New Sentence for Wal-Mart Exec
Tuesday August 28, 3:59 pm ET
By Marcus Kabel, Associated Press Writer
Appeals Court Orders New Sentence for Convicted Wal-Mart Exec
A federal appeals court said Tuesday that despite his poor health and good works, former Wal-Mart executive Thomas Coughlin got off too easy after admitting he had cheated his company and the IRS.
If anything, the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said, Coughlin’s standing in his community made his crimes appear worse. It directed an Arkansas federal judge to resentence Coughlin — rejecting a term that included only home detention and probation.
Coughlin pleaded guilty in January 2006 to felony wire fraud and tax evasion charges after embezzling cash, gift cards and merchandise from Wal-Mart Stores Inc., where he worked for 28 years and served as Sam Walton’s protege. Wal-Mart estimated the loss at nearly $500,000.
The former No. 2 Wal-Mart executive faced more than 28 years in prison and fines of $1.35 million, but U.S. District Judge Robert T. Dawson handed down 27 months of home detention and 33 months of probation. Coughlin was fined $50,000 and ordered to make $411,218 in restitution.
hackworth @ 209
I’ve been feeling as if I’m in a very long extended version of the twilight zone for some time now…. it is unfuckingbelievable what comes out of these a-holes’ mouths.
But Bush’s rhetoric today tops the episode.
TexBetsy @ 213
…info on an Iranian WMD plot, preferably involving yellowcake, in Nigeria….
cynic @ 203
Even being a moron doesn’t rise to the true crime committed, it’s the sheer Hypocrisy of the Senator’s ‘wide-stance’!!!
TexBetsy @ 215
Cause stolen incubator fables from Kuwaiti royals worked so wee the first time?
Eastasia changed sides again?
Nope – we need new media plants for the next “enemy”.
Very good pick up, TB. Hope you get all the stats help you need – sounds like you’re onto something.
bobschacht @ 214
Closeted with his own sexual peccadiloes, I believe….
TexBetsy @ 206
You’re already a part of it. No audition necessary. Soloist, however is another matter. They won’t let me do that either.
and nearly ON topic:
Lesbian Nominated To Be Episcopal Bishop
from The Full Feed from HuffingtonPost.com by The Huffington Post News Editors
The Rev. Tracey Lind, dean of Trinity Cathedral in Cleveland, who has a female partner, will be on the Nov. 10 ballot.
If she wins, she would be the second bishop living with a same-sex partner in the Episcopal Church. New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson, who has a male partner, was consecrated in 2003, pushing the world Anglican Communion to the brink of schism
So Craig says he is NOT GAY.
I think Janis had his number a long time ago..*s*
Eli asks about a topic that has fascinated me for decades. I call it “the Elmer Gantry syndorme,” the sexual peccadillos of religious fundamentalists. I was raised in such a culture, and when I saw the movie Elmer Gantry, even as a sexually naive child, I understood that there was something basic here, and I’d never even heard of Freud.
My first observation after watching for several years was that a very high percentage of the of the most charismatic prostestant ministers got them themselves in trouble with boys, girls, prostitutes, and/or wives of parishoners.
That raised the obvious question, why not catholic clergy, especially given that they were noted for their peccadillos during the middle ages and beyond. We now have the answer to that question. ;-)
Next came the realization that psychologists and psychiatrists are subject to the same occupational hazard, and it is well-known, even legendary, in those professions. It’s called “transferrence” or something like that.
I have a distant female acquaintance who seduced, or was seduced by, three therapists in a row. The last was a female psychologist with whom she moved in and then later sued.
I also noted that this sort of thing is a lesser hazard of teachers, and having done some teaching I noted that in each class there’d be some number of students (both genders) who’d seem to show some unexplainable level of interest. I asked an anthropologist about that, and he said: “Imagine you went to parties several times a week where you were the only male who got to show his personality; what would you expect?” He was a sociobiologist who was teachine sign-language to chimps, and didn’t need to explain anything more.
TexBetsy @ 213
Go up to the menu bar on that link I gave you above, and click on “Immigration.” Then you’ll have to poke around a bit, based on a lot of other information. (Are they your relatives, fleeing political persecution, etc.)
Your best bet would likely be to poke around the site tonight, then give DHS a call in the morning and talk with a real person. By taking the time tonight, though, you can familiarize yourself with the various different kinds of refugee questions and issues that will be important.
Senator Craig says: “I deeply regret not seeking an attorney.”
This is because?
1. Attorneys do it better.
2. Attorneys can’t kiss and tell.
3. Attorneys hang their shingles out in restrooms.
I’m so confused.
TexBetsy @ 213
I would think any history of(or relatives with a history of) resistance to the regime, or anyone who would give them information with propaganda value is where they’ll start.
Just guessing.
This one is just funny
Governor Romney Hiked Fees For ‘The Blind, Mentally Retarded And Gun Owners’
from The Full Feed from HuffingtonPost.com by The Huffington Post News Editors
When Mitt Romney wanted to balance the Massachusetts budget, the blind, mentally retarded and gun owners were asked to help pay.
The Republican managed to slash spending to eliminate a deficit pegged at $3 billion, but he also proposed or presided over a far-ranging series of fee hikes _ a strategy that allowed him to maintain the no-new-taxes stance he now boasts about as he runs for president.
Mad Dogs @ 235
Attorneys will likely tell you that it’s because they’re better hung…. :)
juslin @ 219
Wolfe is doing his part to beat the drums of war. Though Olbermann did not call him out on the sensationalist warmongering, he kept punching Wolfe with other points. Wolfe serves no good purpose on Countdown. He’s a cretin.
Give him a laptop (or a rifle) and send him to Iraq.
wigwam @ 230
Ohgod, that would be even *worse*.
kirk murphy @ 227
Hard not to pick up on it. I have the Farsi interpreter and translator on speed dial for school registration this week. Call him in for one family and keep him busy all morning.
Uhhh…what did she just say?? Miss Teen South Carolina 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg
LOL
I’m uncomfortable with the “Lonely at the top” image being portrayed by the media…everybody gone…I’m all alone…it’s my decision, because they told me I’m the Decider….boo, hooo…I, I, I, I, I, authorize…blah, blah, blah.
No! You are a stubborn, stupid, bonehead!!
Nevermind WWIII,
Meanwhile, back to gay Congressmen in toilet stalls, with wide stances…
People are who they are. They don’t choose to be gay or not.
Mad Dogs @ 234
Is this multiple choice? Is there a (4) all of the above?
Mad Dogs @ 233
Maybe one of the resident FDL legal team can brief you on that in the morning.
On second thought, perhaps he should of initially pleaded an insanity plea….
Considering how this all has turned out to be such a circus Craig may have gotten away with it…..
Mad Dogs @ 234
Oh heck – I thought all that stuff with the footsie was the Bar’s version of a Mason handshake.
Maybe the Senator was just soliciting legal advice – mistook “partition” for “Bar”.
Could happen to anyone.
Eli @ 172
I’ve got no problem with that, Eli; it was the jump to the absolute universal exclusion of choice that got to me. I agree with Hhhhhmmmmmm and CTuttle on this.
Oh, btw, one more thing: I was married for 8 years to a women who had never (to my knowledge) shown any interest in homosexual relationships– in fact, I was her second husband. After divorcing me, she chose(!) to enter into what she thought would be a lifelong relationship with another woman, and that relationship lasted longer than our marriage. But now that relationship is caput, too. She freely chose her marriages with 2 men, and she freely chose her relationship of commitment with a woman, and so far as I know, was faithful in each relationship. Doesn’t sound much like biological determinism to me.
Bob in HI
Was it punaise who said that the Craig story will dribble out in in-stall-ments over the next several days? Put me in the camp that says the story will come out in spurts.
The GOP has a secret handshake?
WOOOOOOOWZAS!
Marshall @ 62
This past weekend one of our friends was in town. Really, really smart guy, generally good Dem, and we were talking about Iraq and 2008.
He said, “yeah, but I just heard some guy on NPR who’d been there and said things were really getting better.”
I said, “Mike, was the guy’s name by any chance O’Hanlan?”
Yup, it was. So I had to explain O’Hanlan’s story to him, subsequently e-mail him a few links, and generally chlorinate his mind.
His initial attitude was, “well, if it’s on NPR, it’s got to be accurate, right?”
Had to disabuse him of that fairy tale as well.
As I said, this was not a Fox-watching, not-interested-in-current-events person, but an intelligent Dem. And still he can’t get the straight stuff.
Sheesh. I don’t have time to educate all my friends. I’m trying to pull them all to the Lake, but it’s “hard work.”
Peterr @ 242
Craig just wanted to de-brief the guy in the stall.
He regrets not engaging an attorney because he’s playing on Americans’ dislike of lawyers.
Just a fucking ploy.
Says a lawyer.
TexBetsy @ 195
I disagree too.
Nobody, nobody has to see your business up front like that…
I don’t care if it’s straight, gay, bi, or whatever….
Nasty…
Mauimom @ 249
One at a time. They’ll come around.
punaise @ 249
Ah, he was a-peeling.
punaise @ 250
“All rise!”
bobschacht @ 245
Well, my vehemence was more about the idea of gay-by-choice in general. I’m okay with the idea of exceptions, but I’m still pretty sure that most gay people are simply born that way and have absolutely no choice in the matter.
kirk murphy @ 254
“May it please the Court . . .”
IIRC, the Kinsey scale has a range between one and six. One is straight and six is very gay. Most men fit the category between one and six.
What do y’all make of this?
US troops ‘won’t attend inquests’
from BBC News | News Front Page | World Edition
The US will continue to stop personnel appearing at UK inquests into “friendly fire” deaths, a report claims.
hackworth @ 258
Then why do they all seem claim over eight?
My 2 cents…Floral and Wild Musk.
;>)
TexBetsy @ 257
Same as the subpoenas they won’t honor here.
Peterr @ 255
too bad it didn’t go to trial, with a jury of his pee-ers.
Widowed mom with two kids to travel to Irak next week …. to anchor the CBS News.
tsf bold
kirk murphy @ 260
Rimshot!
Peterr @ 255
LOL!
kirk murphy @ 260
Two teens just leaned over to see what I was laughing at. They think I am weird. And I think you’re brilliant!
darkblack @ 259
spell-check on the blink? :~)
bobschacht @ 245
Heh, I empathize with ya, my wife has repeatedly told me; “…if I leave you, it’ll be for another woman…!!!” *g*
Inerestingly, the websites of the wingnut media fringe are totally quiet about our good senator from potatoland. Schlussel, Morgan, Coulter, Limbaugh… radio silence. They’re probably prepping preparing for the purge.
Interstingly, Schlussel seems to be accusing Hannity of plagierizing off her website…. it’s so very fubn to take a peak into their world
Eli @ 200
Agreed!
Bob in HI
LS @ 261
Who said we couldn’t bring our brand of democracy to Iraq?
punaise @ 267
It’s the latest phad.
;>)
idle thoughts……
1. I wonder how long the cop had been in the bathroom before Cruisin Craig walked in? Did the cop just get lucky? Or had the cop be toiling away for several hours….just sitting in his stall? If so….give that cop a raise!
2. Damn near every inch of a big airport is covered with cameras. The cops get complaints about men cruising that bathroom….did they go look at the tapes to try to ID anyone? Are there tapes of one Cruisin Craig, on a repetitive basis, entering that bathroom and….staying….and staying….and staying?
Just some idle musings.
Ghostman
Blub @ 270
Their mouths are full.
LS @ 216
I too am getting old, and I was in the same war as some of you…..but I saw a lot of stuff like the opium, only it would sure help explain why, in this war, there are several million guns unaccounted for. We’ll see em, don’t worry.
Sen. Potato Head?
Blub @ 270
Ghostman @ 272
I think he sat there for about 12 minutes.
Craig voting record on gay rights:
* Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
* Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
* Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
* Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
* Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Thuuuuuuuuh YANKEES win!!!
Beat Boston 5-3.
(Big Mitch is big-time happy.)
jayt @ 124
I see. They have just enough information to know there will be an attack, but not quite enough information to prevent it?
CalGeorge @ 279
He’s a log cabin republican?
Big Mitch @ 280
Boooooo! We’ll getcha tomorrow.
cynic @ 274
And, they are “war”ing in the land of major opium production. Keep people drugged, and they don’t realize what you are doing. Slip the public a mickey.
Big Mitch @ 280
:P!!! Boston still leads by 7, and have the best record…!!!
Big Mitch @ 280
Explains the loud “YES” from the other room where my wife is watching the game.
Ghostman @ 273
Cop entered stall at 12:00… at 12:13 Craig stood outside his stall for 2 minutes “fidgeting” with his hands. Then entered stall to the left of the cop and blocked the door with his roll-no luggage.
All documeted on Roll Call yesterday… sorry don’t have link right now.
LS @ 186
Or showing the other guy his wedding ring, which the officer mentioned in the report. Wedding ring = no HIV, in down-low circles.
Bob in HI
Heh, I empathize with ya, my wife has repeatedly told me; “…if I leave you, it’ll be for another woman…!!!” *g*
Funnee,
In our town we recently had our first Gay Pride Parade. I went there with my husband and told him I was going to introduce him as my “bitch”.
He said it was a good thing that nice policeman was standing by me when I said it….
(That hurt me deeply, I thought he liked it when I talked dirty).
All in all it was a nice turn out, great people, and it was a beautiful day….
hammity & cones had a take on craig and hammity kept bringing clinton into the chat… so i take it that will be the company line amongst the repug chattering class
While most of us look for flights with the least layover time, looks like some people book flights just for the layover time! Cheaper that way too.
Be interesting to get Craig’s flight history…
After the toe-tapping, foot-rubbing mating ritual, Craig then passed his hand under the stall a few times… to do what? trying to hold hands? Trying to pull the guy over to is side?
juslin @ 290
Mitt did a Clinton drop-in today as well.
Well. see you guys later. I’m going to pick someone up at the airport! caio
Millineryman @ 190
That is the best thing I’ve seen all day – - and you posted the report using Miss McConnell’s wifi!!
Loo Hoo. @ 289
MN airport is a hub.
hubba, hubba.
TeddySanFran @ 286
That is interesting….and really stupid!!
Well, ok then, and thanks LS and cc. So, the good cop didn’t have to hang out there too long. Ok.
Another idle musing….how did Cruisin Craig know that this was the “action” bathroom? Hmmmm. I bet there’s a WHOLE lot more to Craig’s personal goings on that we still don’t know about.
Ghostman
juslin @ 290
But the Nattering Nabobs have it all wrong; Bill was the recipient of the BJ…!!! ;-)
bobschacht @ 132
Bob & Hhmmm @141 & others –
Agreed it is a complex issue.
For most it might not be a choice — however,
I think we all do ourselves a favor by moving beyond the framing of whether or not it’s a choice.
The point is, it’s not someone else’s choice to make
(other than the consenting adults).
LGBT or straight, it’s the right to self-determination. Further, the whole identity politics sets people up to ‘fail’ because human actions and interests over time to time are more dynamic than categories can hope to convey.
As a result of rigid definitions, possessive expectations of loyalty, and the whole numbers game, there are times when queer communities go just as batsh*t insane when a member changes teams as has any straight community when someone decides to come out.
There’s a helluva lot more experimentation — across the boards — going on out there
than people want to fess up to.
Why the pretense?
It’s human.
Get over it.
TeddySanFran @ 295
He doesn’t protect his wireless network? And he is in congress? This bother anyone else?
TexBetsy @ 213
Being a Republican in good standing?
Being a relative of the former Shah?
Is this a trick question?
Oh, wait– I think you’re being serious. :-)
I would think that any answer I came up with would be problematic and subject to long bureaucratic delays. Do you know a family trying to emigrate as refugees? If so, it would probably be better for them to cultivate relationships with the Iranian community in L.A., where immigration officials are more used to dealing with that situation.
Bob in HI
My experience as a gay man is that it’s biological for me.
TeddySanFran @ 293
They posted it using his Wifi, which is a new update from when I posted that link earlier. What a great bunch of patriots those folks are.
Ghostman @ 296
Someone, somewhere earlier said it is a well-known “cruisin” place.
What has society done to people to have to resort to this? Why can’t you just be who you are? Perhaps, the excitement of the anonymity is part of it. I don’t know. People like to have sex in airplane bathrooms too, for the thrill.
montag @ 236
Attorneys who are appealing are always losers.
punaise @ 297
In the North, for Northwest.
Very Hitcockian.
Hey, anyone want to join me next week in crusin the houses of the rich and famous with a lap top. Let’s see how many other wifi installations are unprotected! Hey, we’re just driving by.
bobschacht @ 302
In the past two weeks we have registered 5 Iranian HS kids and 4 middle schoolers. All recently arrived refugees. Total of 4 at the beginning of school a year ago. None at all the two years previously. I’m noticing a trend is all.
TexBetsy @ 301
And as Minority Leader he gets briefed on a lot of the most sensitive stuff around that is shared only with majority/minority party leaders and Intelligence committee chair/ranking member. If he’s doing anything with that information over an unsecured wifi, the intelligence community will have an absolute fit.
Oh my god. Are you guys still pecking this to death?? Why? Why? Who cares what the rituals for initiating sex in a public bathroom?
TexBetsy @ 195
Not defending it, but you do understand that the toilet trolls keep the stall doors closed, right? People aren’t having sex out in the open on the bathroom floor. And some are hooking up to go elsewhere. (Not Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) I bet, since he’s NOT GAY).
I don’t want this to become a “horrible homosexuals exposing themselves to kids” issue, because that really doesn’t happen, although it’s the argument the fundie right uses all the time.
The book David Ehrenstein referenced earlier — that was written in 1970! — talks specifically about how teenaged boys are excluded from these restroom activities, even when they are eager to join in.
This is not an issue of sexual predation of minors.
Uh, that was Hitchcockian….
(What the hell happened to the edit command–it’s very squirrelly, lately.)
Big Mitch @ 305
By their very nature…!!!
Fern @ 280
See James @ 6:34 pm , above.
peanutbutter @ 309
Hey… I just joined this discussion about an hour ago! Just curious…. scroll on by or find another blog….
montag @ 312
I don’t know. I only have it if I post anonymously without logging in. Once I’m logged in, no more edit button.
Peterr….did I read that you are now in KC MO? Is there a way to get in touch? Do you have a church there? I have a nephew in KC who is church hunting. I’d like to suggest yours, if you have one there. And I wouldn’t mind hearing a sermon of yours myself.
TeddySanFran @ 311
Well thank God for that! I’d just hate the idea of him walking in on ANY sex in a public place.
And thanks for all your other explanations about this issue. A whole new world to many of us.
peanutbutter @ 310
I prefer to be informed to uninformed, and would appreciate if someone in the know would answer this.
LS @ 304
Why don’t they just build up bars that look like bathrooms if that what it takes to get these people out of public bathrooms?
Damn, what about the rest of us here thinking about who might of been in that bathroom before you and what may have transpired….
peanutbutter @ 308
Personally, I’m actually really, really, really worried that we are about to attack another country, but it is inappropriate to discuss it at this time…..folds hands, and looks serene, with a smile…gagging, which brings me back to the Craig story…
My kid’s girl friend used to take her lap top and find all the unsecured wifi stuff in Palo Alto. She had a big list. People are stupid. If we’re really going to protect national security, our congress criters should be required to submit their wifi boxes to an office of congressional security which would show them how to set up a wifi installation and give em the box to take home…and check two weeks later (unanounced) by looking for an unsecured wifi installation in front of the congresscriter’s house. An unsecured wifi installation would be cause to pull a security clearance
cc in nm @ 315
You know, I deleted the specific reference to who posted this because I was not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but hey, you can also freaking read the entire day’s worth of comments to get the nitty gritty, too.
peanutbutter @ 322
Don’t feel like reading the “freaking day’s” worth of comments… chill.
peanutbutter @ 323
I thought I had read all day, and missed the explanation for that bit of behavior.
peanutbutter @ 317
About half the time, I get a pop-up message “Save or Clear this Edit, etc.” when I try to edit a message, when there are no open edits. Kinda confusing.
TeddySanFran @ 311
And therefore, NOT PROUD OF IT.
;>)
cc in nm @ 315
Just Stroll On By, Peanut Butter.
TJ @ 319
There are already hundreds of comments in the four or five posts of today on this topic. It’s been teased apart and analysed, and tittered over to the last excruciating detail and it’s all still there to be read over.
I think I’m going to just take a freaking break until the next post, which is hopefully NOT on that idiot Craig and let the rest of you go over each finger and toe twitch in the report. Oh, and how many eyebrow hairs fell off while he was in the bathroom, too. And have we yet determined exactly which shop in which he purchased the underwear he had on at the time yet?
Jeebus.
Scribe sez: There’s a helluva lot more experimentation — across the boards — going on out there
than people want to fess up to.
Why the pretense?
It’s human.
Get over it.
Equal rights, human rights, reproductive rights, freedom from religion, health care rights will make big gains when societies can appreciate these simple truths from the enlightenment era. Though they are self- evident they have been methodically squelched by the Republican, conservative and religious dogma that keeps people oppressed and ignorant.
NZ Expat, now in KS @ 317
I’m in KC now, but not serving a church at the moment. Send me an email at peterr.FDL at gmail dot com — it’s not an address I check regularly, but if you send something now, I’ll check back in a bit to get it.
And you scrolled through 310 comments on the “Craig’s List” post to come tell us how bored you are?
If it was so tedious, why not drop it before – say – comment #250?
In other words – if the topic disturbs you so much, why are you devoting so much time to it?
Or – peanutbutter – does the whole thing just make you sticky?
That’s OK – you can tell us.
Let it out.
peanutbutter @ 310
One might wonder if it’s because Craig’s successor would be appointed by a repub governor if he were to be forced to resign in disgrace, while Vitter’s would be appointed by a Dem. But that would mean that the ‘pubs put politics before principle, and we know that could never happen.
ticktock @ 321
Umm, they already did that… during the cocaine craze of the early `80s. :)
CalGeorge @ 279
Also campaigned in Idaho for adoption of the state’s constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
G.Kerby @ 331
Yeah, that’s probably the most likely reason. Feh.
Then, there is the other explanation. This dolt isn’t gay, or is but this had nothing to do with gay. He wouldn’t play ball on something so they took advantage of something they new about him and “neutralized him.” Worked didn’t it.
I’m ending this…
for me it’s definitely talked out…
but I will be packing lysol the next time I have to go to a public pit stop….
Peanut Butter!
G.Kerby @ 333
As I surmised above, it’s all about not liking surprises. From the WaPo:
Jonathan @ 207
My team and I were extracted out of Laos by an Air America UH-1 full of opium by a pilot who was probably fired or shot for letting us see what he was transporting.
We were instructed to forget what we had seen and to consider ourselves lucky to be alive by some shit in civilian clothes.
When I captured the Chinese colonel on a trail snatch I was told it never happened and that I was probably seeing things. The guy was at least 180 lbs and 5′10, way bigger than a Vietnamese.
cynic @ 337
Yeah, right.
G.Kerby @ 333
Senate GOP leadership more than just a little bit pissed off that they did not get a heads-up on Craig. Can’t blame ‘em.
Big Mitch @ 343
They wanted some action, too?
james @ 340
Jesus, James.
ccmask @ 30
Are you sure he didn’t say he has been hot and bothered in Men’s rooms?
People choose their religion, and in America we respect all religious choices.
People don’t choose their skin color, and we respect all Americans regardless of skin color.
So, for purposes of the debate about rights to equality under American law, whether sexual orientation is a “choice” is irrelevant. We respect things about people that are their choice in America, and we respect things that aren’t a choice.
kirk murphy @ 344
Glad you got there first!!
TeddySanFran @ 345
Very nicely said Teddy.
TeddySanFran @ 345
We do? Wasn’t there that poll recently where far more people would vote for a gay candidate than an atheist one?
james @ 348
Hell hath no fury like a scorned beefy Gooper.
TeddySanFran @ 347
So Teddy, you’d agree that some people do choose what they’ll get on their knees for?? (I couldn’t resist, sorry!)
cc in nm @ 292
CC, if you ever get an answer to this question, I’d appreciate a heads up. To me, it’s always meant, can you pass some toilet paper.
I’m gonna take a walk. I’ll be back later.
TeddySanFran @ 347
well said!
james @ 348
Congratulations to both of you for leaving alone the “heads-up” invitation to a snark-retort.
hackworth @ 330
enlightenment era
*sigh*
Maybe Senator Craig is not gay. Maybe he’s just farsighted. Perhaps he mistook the symbol at the entrance to the bathroom for the figure of a woman. If he would just come clean (oops) and admit that he’s ……….. farsighted…..he could get himself off the rack his fellow Republicans have strapped him to. I know it’s not acceptable for a right wing Republican to be farsighted because if one is farsighted there is a risk of not tending to what is close at hand like earmarks, family values, national security and loyalty to Bush (a small irony perhaps?). But perhaps under these unusal circumstances it would be best for Craig to admit that he thought he was in the ladies room and was merely trying to shoo the occupant of the stall next to him away so that he could safely exit the ladies room without embarrassing himself or anyone else. As absurd as that version of events sounds, it would serve him better than repeating, “I’m not gay” and threatening to consult with a lawyer (what kind of lawyer? where does one find a lawyer experienced in the law of toilet stalls?)
TexBetsy @ 228
By coincidence last year, I was at a small Episcopal Church on Maui at which Bishop Robinson was guest celebrant. Cool.
Bob in HI
Big Mitch @ 355
Had you said heads down I’d have been all over it!!
TeddySanFran @ 347
Thank you, TSF.
kirk murphy @ 351
scorned beef?
Eli @ 350
And more would vote for either than for a Mormon.
montag @ 312
Edit command is rather far down on a list the tech crew is handling since the latest WordPress upgrade. They know it’s squirrelly, but there are other higher-priority issues, we’ve been told. Probably they’ll get to it just before another WP upgrade, causing all sorts of new havoc.
TJ @ 352
707
Yeah, I wish someone would spill the beans… come on all you folks who read all 18 threads on this tody!!
What was Craig hoping to find with his hand, other than a cop’s badge?
I guess I’m curious cus I’m wondering how far “lewd behavior” goes…. thx.
Big Mitch @ 362
Personally, I think Big Love is gonna deep six Mitt.
The wingnuts can try to hush up what they like. The fact is (about Nam) that some of us were there, and we saw what some people did, smoke, cutting off ears, cutting off young girl’s breasts while they were still alive. Why do you think some of us have nightmares (I’m lucky, I don’t). But when you sit in a rear area and listen to some 18 year old crying that “it coulda been my sister!” you kinda wonder. I never saw any of that (well, the smoking, yes), so I can’t tell you it went on. But I believe the guys who came out of the field. They had this look about them….this look that said “we didn’t have to do that.” We’d already killed all the guys with guns.
Big Mitch @ 343
Right. At least with Foley, rethugs had plenty of heads-up. Foley was so determined to continue his pursuit of tender weenies, The Wrestler could not stop him…
TribeScribe @ 361
It’s a traditional `pug dish… scorned beef and potatoe.
bobschacht @ 246
I agree with what I think is your point, that some percentage of gay relationships are a matter simply of choice rather than biological determinism. (But that’s not to preclude the latter.)
For example, there was a brief period (IIRC late 1974) when, among the hetrosexual couples, I knew there came a fad of lesbianism. I’d go to parties and all the women would be in the living room making out with each other and the guys would be in the kitchen drinking beer and talking about sports and cars and other guy stuff. It was truly weird.
TeddySanFran @ 347
Lady Justice is blind, so is equality for all…!!!
Big Mitch @ 362
Hee-hee..all those years Rethugs run against Federal guv’mint, and it comes back to bite ‘em.
Voters don’t want to pay for more bedrooms in the White House.
[ducks]
montag @ 368
Mostly found in diners in Indiana
The reason behind the Repug Congressional leadership referral of the Senator Craig case to the Ethics Committee is pretty simple:
1. Larry Craig is mucho stubborn.
2. Larry Craig is mucho stupid.
3. Larry Craig is mucho tone-deaf.
The message these folks are sending is: “Sit down and STFU Larry! Pack yer bags now and don’t be coming back here no more.”
Larry, are you gettin’ their drift? It ain’t personal (ya, right), it’s The Party fer chrissakes!
wigwam @ 369
The guys weren’t watching?????
I’m just asking, and I’m sure it’s been asked before…
But who the f*** picks up anything off a public bathroom floor, for any reason?
james @ 372
Served anywhere bad pick-up lines are found….
Hey, why all this talk?
Give Larry Craig a break.
He dropped his glasses and was searching for them.
What’s wrong with that?
He’s an honorable man.
hackworth @ 367
If I read Glenn Greenwald’s post of this morning correctly, they got more than adequate heads-up last summer and chose at that time to kill the messenger.
G.Kerby @ 333
Thank you for making that connection, which I had totally missed. DeeCee Democrats need this talking point. Why investigate the ethics of Craig but not Vitter? Because Vitter’s GOP seat would be at risk of turnover via appointment by a Democratic governor.
Thank you.
james @ 374
They were afraid to. These were their wives, the mothers of their kids. They appeared to be in shock and/or denial. Then this whole fad seemed to pass. It was very weird.
wigwam @ 377
Yeah, they wanted to leak it just before Bush planned to attack Iran, so everyone would be distracted and all ga-ga over it.
TexBetsy @ 238
Cool. Peterr gave you excellent advice, better than anything I could have come up with. What Farsi I once knew has mostly evaporated from my brain, and anyway it was the Farsi equivalent of hillbilly English. I didn’t do very well with verbs. So I’m glad you have such good resources at hand.
I’m curious how this family with those needs wound up in your back yard, and what part of Iran they’re from.
Bob in HI
TeddySanFran @ 379
That seemed to be the point that Glenn Greenwald made this morning, but he never completely said it in those few words.
Mad Dogs @ 373
As Eli pointed out, Craig’s offense was public, where Vitter’s and most others were at least somewhat private. So, there are other differences.
I’m still fascinated though, by the fact that with all the corruption and convictions for same in the last few years, this is what they bring to the ethics committee.
Ah, Bo Diddly is in the hospital for a stent after a heart attack.
Get well soon.
Trex upstairs
bobschacht @ 382
Mostly southern Iran near the Iraq border, which means the oldest kids are bilingual plus a dialect. The younger kids seem to have less Arabic than the older, who study both in school. (This is where my job gets fun!) Mostly sponsored by UN and then a local refugee services group.
Late nite has appeared
I was reading about Ted Haggard’s Funny Money the other night. I forgot about it until tonight, when I had an absolutely scathingly brilliant idea. Well, ok…a weird thought. We’re trying to rebuild after Katrina, and I could ask people for donations…and you wouldn’t have to go through a non-profit if you donated to me instead of Ted, so wouldn’t have to pay the administrative fee of ten percent. ***BWG*** I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything like him…asking people to pay his family’s living costs while he and his wife go to school (he wants to be a psychologist)….well, unless you count Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell, um…ok, there are a lot like him. But Ted has a set of brass ones, that’s for sure.
Peterr, thanks. A message is sent.
Mauimom @ 249
For those who don’t know. NPR hired as its communbications director back in October 2001 a guy who had been head of Voice of America, that is THE Voice of America that reads scripts written by the CIA into places where we want to discredit the host government.
From that moment on when someone says to me they heard it on NPR I have visions of Goebbels smiling somewhere.
NZ Expat, now in KS @ 390
A reply is on its way.
peanutbutter @ 329
He had underwear on????!!
:)
Night, all.
TexBetsy @ 25
If he was in THERE he really does have a WIDE STANCE…and some reach to get his left hand, palms up, all the way over to the right side stall!
ccmask @ 88
In the US the act was referred to as “Tea-room”
The “tearoom” is also gay slang referring to a venue where public sex occurs, typically a public toilet (T-Room = Toilet Room). The Sociologist Laud Humphreys wrote “Tearoom trade: Impersonal sex in public places”, (ISBN 0-202-30283-0) often cited in the context of ethics due to his nonstandard research techniques.
Airport Cat @ 96
Here’s the plea form he signed. It seems pretty standard.
“I understand the Court will not accept a plea of guilty from an individual who claims they are innocent.”
“I now make no claim that I am innocent to the charges to which I am entering a plea of guilty”
There is also standard clauses that he has carefully READ the charges made against him, and that he UNDERSTANDS them.
http://media.washingtonpost.co…..082807.pdf
With the fact that he later called the arresting officer and said that he needed a copy of the charges, the court date, and the name of the Prosecuting Attorney for his “law firm” it seems that almost everything Craig has said about this incident has been a lie.
not sure if it’s been duly noted here (lots of comments!) but in her article about larry craig, katie halper collected two clips from a congressional page gay sex scandal – from 1982. in the second clip, congressman craig holds a presser to deny that he’s involved. which is interesting, according to ABC reporter carol simpson, since he hadn’t been named.
LS @ 43
DOn’t tell me, he was wearing the bow-tie again, wasn’t he.