ugh!

#2

What?

now to read the post ;o}

Shorter Junya: “Heck, rich folks jest need more money.”

EPU’d

CNN…

Craig steps down from Romney campaign so as not to be a ‘distraction’.

greed kills.

Hey PW – so true.

Can’t believe Shumer is against this…or at least so I have heard.

Sorry, that was a pessimistic zed there…I usually get edged out. I meant to say “umph”. Or something.

blergh. OK, I read the post PW! Got all crosseyed about taxes n’ stuff.

If Gates and Buffett have stated they don’t pay their fair share, why are we not listening…???

Sorry, that was a pessimistic zed there…I usually get edged out. I meant to say “umph”. Or something.

LOL. You gotta be quick here this time of night.

How in the world is Olbermann gonna fit all of today into one hour?

It makes me sick to read those numbers. It’s not right.

Toll-free capital switchboard number:

1 (800) 828 – 0498
1 (800) 459 – 1887
1 (800) 614 – 2803
1 (866) 340 – 9281
1 (866) 338 – 1015
1 (877) 851 – 6437

Lets try and help and make it One America in one tiny area!

A lot of Americans joke about hedge funds.

A lot of young college graduates want to be hedge fund managers.

When hedge funds collapse, Americans will say, gee, I didn’t know.

But Americans will pay the price.

Meantime, Medicare is on the path to a dead-end crash.

It makes me sick to read those numbers. It’s not right.

sorry, but there are 12 people who got here ahead of you.

This is a related item from my Bush scandals list:

216. Hedge funds buy companies, make some changes, and then sell them or their parts off at a vast profit. Their managers receive enormous compensations (hundreds of millions) for this which are not taxed as income but at the much lower rates of capital gains (max 15%). That is not the end of it. One hedge fund Blackstone recently went public to the tune of $4.75 billion for its managers. On this, they paid $553 million in taxes, most of it at the 15% rate. It does not end here. Managers maintain that their going public represented a sale of $3.7 billion worth of the company’s brand identity (called its “good will”) and are currently claiming deductions based on the depreciation of the Blackstone brand (for going public), not at the 15% capital gains rate but at the much higher 35% income tax rate. Over 15 years, this deduction will result in a return of $750 million to them or $197 million more than what they originally paid in taxes. We will end up paying them for taking their company public and for the huge profit they made doing so. The rich are not like us, and neither are the laws that cover them.

Mutant Poodle @ 8

Hey PW – so true.

Can’t believe Shumer is against this…or at least so I have heard.

Shorter Schumer: “He who pays the bills, calls the tune.”

Or “Never piss on the shoes of the folks who are filling your wallet.”

This is insanity. When people have more money than they can possibly spend in their lifetimes, they do not deserve tax breaks. This needs to be brought to the front by the dems. These people are not patriots, christians, or anything other than selfish, thieving, subhumans.

Imagine having that kind of money and not picking up the tab for childrens’ health.

I know they have their gala charity events, but that only for further tax write-offs.

hey CalGeorge, sorry to laugh when I know you’re being serious. I’ve been so down in the mouth recently over how fucked up everything is, that laughing over today’news feels like a huge relief.

Mad Dogs at 18

FWIW, I’ve never thought Schumer had the interests of the American people at heart.

Only his own interests.

Hey PW!

Don’t know if you wanted the link to be active or not but the link for unionvoice.org at the bottom is busted.

Hugh @ 17

This is a related item from my Bush scandals list:

216. Hedge funds buy companies, make some changes, and then sell them or their parts off at a vast profit. Their managers receive enormous compensations (hundreds of millions) for this which are not taxed as income but at the much lower rates of capital gains (max 15%). That is not the end of it. One hedge fund Blackstone recently went public to the tune of $4.75 billion for its managers. On this, they paid $553 million in taxes, most of it at the 15% rate. It does not end here. Managers maintain that their going public represented a sale of $3.7 billion worth of the company’s brand identity (called its “good will”) and are currently claiming deductions based on the depreciation of the Blackstone brand (for going public), not at the 15% capital gains rate but at the much higher 35% income tax rate. Over 15 years, this deduction will result in a return of $750 million to them or $197 million more than what they originally paid in taxes. We will end up paying them for taking their company public and for the huge profit they made doing so. The rich are not like us, and neither are the laws that cover them they wrote for themselves.

Edited for more accuracy.

No laptop. Gotta watch KO. Thanks, PW. Calling tomorrow AM. (Plugged katymine’s phone #s into my cell!

Mad Dogs,

I stand corrected.

I just got mail from Chuckie. Gonna send it back with a few notes and tell him, no money for you and your DSCC.

Dean is on!!!

Hugh @ 25

Mad Dogs,

I stand corrected.

Corrected? Nah! Merely enhanced your always superb work. *g*

bg @ 26

I just got mail from Chuckie. Gonna send it back with a few notes and tell him, no money for you and your DSCC.

You should tell him that the hedge fund managers can afford it more than you.

PW,

In my opinion, driving wedges into political fault lines only serves the interests of dark-agers.

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

What I despair is the lack of good ideas.

uh ohhhhhhh i’m in over my head with this post…dont understand high finance so i’ll read and lurk – maybe learn a thing or 2

Milbank on KO: “Gonzales is leaving so he can spend more time spying on his family”

LOL!

And you guys also know that the hedge fund people are a key part of the market insecurity right now, making money when things go south. I think we ought to hold Schumer (and the Democrats) to account on this.

Warning – OK says ‘Fredo was thrown in the Lake. Watch out for slimy things!

I wish Dana Milbank weren’t a guest on KO. He’s too compromising and vanilla.

juslin @ 31

uh ohhhhhhh i’m in over my head with this post…dont understand high finance so i’ll read and lurk – maybe learn a thing or 2

Summary, hedge fund manager’s pay is not counted as income so they pay a much lower tax rate on their money than you and I do…they only pay 15% total. You and I, in addition to our higher tax rate, we also pay additional taxes on our income that they are exempt from.

Schumer is representing Wall Street here, a major constituent of his.

Jonathan @ 30

PW,

In my opinion, driving wedges into political fault lines only serves the interests of dark-agers.

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

What I despair is the lack of good ideas.

I don’t think anyone is begrudging anyone making a lot of money. I think BS is being called because of the claim that it’s Capital Gains and not income earned which is taxed at a higher rate.

Jonathan @ 30

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

I do. The tax code is not the tablets with the 10 commandments. It is inherently a vehicle of social engineering. It is about how a society chooses to distribute its wealth. It is not, or at least should not be, about the most well off being specially entitled to keep or increase their wealth at the expense of others in the society.

dakine01 @ 37

Jonathan @ 30

PW,

In my opinion, driving wedges into political fault lines only serves the interests of dark-agers.

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

What I despair is the lack of good ideas.

I don’t think anyone is begrudging anyone making a lot of money. I think BS is being called because of the claim that it’s Capital Gains and not income earned which is taxed at a higher rate.

Exactly. It’s not capital gains, they are not investing their own money, they are paid to manage it. That’s income.

OK, I know this is OT, but has anyone here yet suggested Fitz for AG? Him, I would trust to uphold the rule of law.

Airport Cat @ 40

OK, I know this is OT, but has anyone here yet suggested Fitz for AG? Him, I would trust to uphold the rule of law.

Senator Durbin earlier today said he would be a good if outside choice for AG.

Richmond @ 33

And you guys also know that the hedge fund people are a key part of the market insecurity right now, making money when things go south. I think we ought to hold Schumer (and the Democrats) to account on this.

Hedge funds may be this year’s model of the 1980’s Savings & Loan scandals? How much did that cost us?

Airport Cat @ 40

OK, I know this is OT, but has anyone here yet suggested Fitz for AG? Him, I would trust to uphold the rule of law.

It has…but only at places like this.

I think Fitz’s name was on the original list of fired attorney’s because they fear his independence. Fitz isn’t going to move up during this administration.

Jonathan @ 21

Mad Dogs at 18

FWIW, I’ve never thought Schumer had the interests of the American people at heart.

Only his own interests.

Jon

you have mail.

Of course, the argument against the bill is that our great capitalists will move somewhere else if we torture them with taxes….

Given how hedge funds have happily helped create the latest bubble, I’d say we might have been better off if they had moved to, say, Mongolia.

dakine01 @ 37

Jonathan @ 30

PW,

In my opinion, driving wedges into political fault lines only serves the interests of dark-agers.

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

What I despair is the lack of good ideas.

I don’t think anyone is begrudging anyone making a lot of money. I think BS is being called because of the claim that it’s Capital Gains and not income earned which is taxed at a higher rate.

Here’s the argument:

Risk-taking should be rewarded.

Therefore, we tax capital gains at a favorable rate.

I used to buy this argument, when ordinary citizens could assess risk.

I don’t any longer. Today, only professional insiders can assess risk and uncertainty.

No reason to reward them.

Jonathan @ 46

dakine01 @ 37

I don’t think anyone is begrudging anyone making a lot of money. I think BS is being called because of the claim that it’s Capital Gains and not income earned which is taxed at a higher rate.

Here’s the argument:

Risk-taking should be rewarded.

Therefore, we tax capital gains at a favorable rate.

I used to buy this argument, when ordinary citizens could assess risk.

I don’t any longer. Today, only professional insiders can assess risk and uncertainty.

No reason to reward them.

And the Hedge fund managers are not risking their own money anyway; they are managing others’ money.

Don’t we just bail them and their banking buddies out while they all rob us anyway? Like last Fridays news dump.

Fed bends rules to help two big banks
If the Federal Reserve is waiving a fundamental principle in banking regulation, the credit crunch must still be sapping the strength of America’s biggest banks. Fortune’s Peter Eavis documents an unusual Fed move.

montag @ 45

Of course, the argument against the bill is that our great capitalists will move somewhere else if we torture them with taxes….

Given how hedge funds have happily helped create the latest bubble, I’d say we might have been better off if they had moved to, say, Mongolia.

I thought they did move, the Caymans, Bermuda, etc…!!!

Airport Cat @ 42

Richmond @ 33

And you guys also know that the hedge fund people are a key part of the market insecurity right now, making money when things go south. I think we ought to hold Schumer (and the Democrats) to account on this.

Hedge funds may be this year’s model of the 1980’s Savings & Loan scandals? How much did that cost us?

$600-$700 billion IIRC. Those were 1980s dollars so that would be more than a trillion dollars now.

I thought they did move, the Caymans, Bermuda, etc…!!!

No, those were just summer cottages.

carolyn urban @ 51

I thought they did move, the Caymans, Bermuda, etc…!!!

No, those were just summer cottages.

My bad!!! ;-)

Loo Hoo. @ 35

I wish Dana Milbank weren’t a guest on KO. He’s too compromising and vanilla.

Definitely. I didn’t like his remark that Abu’s resignation had nothing to do with Rove and people only think so because they think Rove runs everything (i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types) And August is just a really typical time for resignations, according to Dana.

OH Really Dana?!? What about those rumours of Leahy having something on the two? Dana Milbank also seemed to imply that Chertoff was respected and an ok choice for Abu’s replacement. I felt uneasy of that thinking of Katrina, and was very glad when John Dean corrected the record.

Please KO, drop Milbank, drop Wolf, Keep Dean, more Maddow and Sam Seder pleaase.
I did like that fellow who presented a compelling case of why Clay Johnson is thoroughly terrible.

CTuttle @ 49

I thought they did move, the Caymans, Bermuda, etc…!!!

Oops! You’re right… they did, already.

Well, when the country is broke, and most of southern Manhattan has moved to the Cayman and Canary Islands, and the government looks in the cupboard and there nothing there but cobwebs and dust, maybe people will figure it out….

mui @ 53

Loo Hoo. @ 35

I wish Dana Milbank weren’t a guest on KO. He’s too compromising and vanilla.

Definitely. I didn’t like his remark that Abu’s resignation had nothing to do with Rove and people only think so because they think Rove runs everything (i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types) And August is just a really typical time for resignations, according to Dana.

OH Really Dana?!? What about those rumours of Leahy having something on the two? Dana Milbank also seemed to imply that Chertoff was respected and an ok choice for Abu’s replacement. I felt uneasy of that thinking of Katrina, and was very glad when John Dean corrected the record.

Please KO, drop Milbank, drop Wolf, Keep Dean, more Maddow and Sam Seder pleaase.
I did like that fellow who presented a compelling case of why Clay Johnson is thoroughly terrible.

KO is pretty much forced to have Milbank and wolfe on the show since MSNBC is partenred with Newsweek and the WaPo0.

That fellow is author James Moore. Wrote “Bush’s Brain”.
Yeah, I agree Dana is vanilla. Milk Toast. Milque Toast?

Risk taking should not be rewarded. That’s a talking point. Hard work should be rewarded.

But it’s not only the uber rich who are getting away with this. The rich have tax shelters, offshore their income and hide in in layers of shell corporations.

The rich boast about not having to pay taxes. They rather pay their tax lawyers to avoid paying the gov and hence the people for programs.

This nation is about one and one thing only… the accumulation and protection of wealth. They even want to keep it after death by sheltering inheritances.

It’s nothing short of disgusting.

Something to despise every day – the obscene conspicuous consumption of the rich.

I did like that fellow who presented a compelling case of why Clay Johnson is thoroughly terrible.

I did too, mui. I didn’t catch his name either. Maybe he’ll be taking over for Milbank. I like Milbank’s articles in WaPo for their funny value oftentimes, however.

Hugh @ 38

Jonathan @ 30

I don’t begrudge people who make a lot of money.

I do. The tax code is not the tablets with the 10 commandments. It is inherently a vehicle of social engineering. It is about how a society chooses to distribute its wealth. It is not, or at least should not be, about the most well off being specially entitled to keep or increase their wealth at the expense of others in the society.

Making money is one thing.

Taxing it is another.

The federal income tax law is designed to (a) raise revenue, (b) reward certain behavior, and (c) redistribute wealth.

One can argue about any of these things.

I’m not taking any position. Just trying to elucidate.

Dana Milbank is a consummate insider. Another Bonesman…I’d bet with strong CIA ties.

I’m curious about one thing that Bush said regarding Alberto’s accomplishments about online predators, did Gonzales investigate Craig?

Hello, everyone!

People don’t understand just how far ahead of us the rich have pulled in the last few years, even while most of us tread water at best.

Marcy’s home!

Loo Hoo. @ 58

I did like that fellow who presented a compelling case of why Clay Johnson is thoroughly terrible.

I did too, mui. I didn’t catch his name either. Maybe he’ll be taking over for Milbank. I like Milbank’s articles in WaPo for their funny value oftentimes, however.

Yeah I know. I have enjoyed Milbanks articles too, but I get sick of being handed parcels of information from someone who feels quite Olympian because they eat cocktail weenies on a silver plate with a lacy doily.

Phoenix Woman @ 62

Hello, everyone!

People don’t understand just how far ahead of us the rich have pulled in the last few years, even while most of us tread water at best.

But, PW, the rich have pulled ahead not because of the tax law. But because of far more powerful economic forces.

Hey everyone!

The Burn Bush campaign is soooooooooooooo close.
Almost $99K. Contribute now and help us reach to $100k goal.

http://www.actblue.com/page/burnbush

demi @ 56

That fellow is author James Moore. Wrote “Bush’s Brain”.
Yeah, I agree Dana is vanilla. Milk Toast. Milque Toast?

Merci! I should have known.

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

Cliff Varnell @ 68

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

OMG, this mui @ 69

Cliff Varnell @ 68

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

Is that poon tang?

Mad Dogs @ 5

Shorter Junya: “Heck, rich folks jest need more money.”

Yours is shorter than mine, but I’ve said that George’s all-purpose assessment of the economy: “The problem is that the rich folks don’t have enough money.”

Bob in HI

I think someone needs to add another wing onto the log cabin.

-GSD

mui @ 69

Cliff Varnell @ 68

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

The liquor had to be good — but I bet the p*t was sh*tty!

“People don’t understand just how far ahead of us the rich have pulled in the last few years, even while most of us tread water at best.”

How true. Real GNP has been increasing mildly during the Bush years, but the median income has fallen in real terms. This can happen only if the biggest pigs at the trough grab more than their fair share.

raven @ 70

OMG, this mui @ 69

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

Is that poon tang?

Mary Jane, baby. Cheeba. Herb. Ganja. Dope.

-GSD

GSD @ 75

raven @ 70

OMG, this

Is that poon tang?

Mary Jane, baby. Cheeba. Herb. Ganja. Dope.

-GSD

da Kine, cmabodian red, thai stick, sheeeet who dat.

raven @ 70

OMG, this mui @ 69

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

Is that poon tang?

Average stuff, Average party Raven. Very average. Liquor came in mugs and plasti cups. I think this was ca. 90, the year. They were trying to diversify, with more women and “minorities.” Some members might even tell you they were *cough* *achem* token. Members were a little more laid back and smart than your average frat party.

raven @ 76

GSD @ 75

Mary Jane, baby. Cheeba. Herb. Ganja. Dope.

-GSD

da Kine

don’t be bogartin’

mui @ 77

raven @ 70

OMG, this

Is that poon tang?

Average stuff, Average party Raven. Very average. I think this was ca. 90, the year. They were trying to diversify, with more women and “minorities.” Some members might even tell you they were token.

1990? Damn

raven @ 79

mui @ 77

Average stuff, Average party Raven. Very average. I think this was ca. 90, the year. They were trying to diversify, with more women and “minorities.” Some members might even tell you they were token.

1990? Damn

Why is that surprising?

oddball @ 66

Hey everyone!

The Burn Bush campaign is soooooooooooooo close.
Almost $99K. Contribute now and help us reach to $100k goal.

Happydance!!

http://www.actblue.com/page/burnbush

My wife and I are having trouble making ends meet for the first time since we’ve been married. Groceries are ridiculous, gas, electric, you name it and I’d bet it’s increased 15-20%. Have some major home improvement that’s been put on hold so that we can get caught up. I know I’m not alone by any stretch, but WTF? The greedy creeps in the 2nd percentile possess how much of the wealth? It’s just wrong.

Cliff Varnell @ 68

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

That explickys a lot!

mui @ 80

raven @ 79

1990? Damn

Why is that surprising?

Cuz I’m fucking old. Hell, I quit in 92!

mui @ 77
Average stuff,

I called it…Whadda they know about party’n — or anything else!

bobschacht @ 71

Mad Dogs @ 5

Shorter Junya: “Heck, rich folks jest need more money.”

Yours is shorter than mine, but I’ve said that George’s all-purpose assessment of the economy: “The problem is that the rich folks don’t have enough money.”

Bob in HI

And, the problem with health care, according to Bu’ush World, is that we’re over-insured. Y’see, insurance is beset with “moral hazard” and begets sloppy shopping.

Of course, Bu’ush will take every penny of his taxpayer-funded health care for the rest of his life.

Jay @ 82

My wife and I are having trouble making ends meet for the first time since we’ve been married. Groceries are ridiculous, gas, electric, you name it and I’d bet it’s increased 15-20%. Have some major home improvement that’s been put on hold so that we can get caught up. I know I’m not alone by any stretch, but WTF? The greedy creeps in the 2nd percentile possess how much of the wealth? It’s just wrong.

IIRC, The top 300,000 people have almost as much money as the bottom 60 percent.

Elliott @ 78

raven @ 76

da Kine

don’t be bogartin’

Why y’all callin’ my name?

GSD @ 72

I think someone needs to add another wing onto the log cabin.

-GSD

True. What will it be named and who will be the leader? I still want more on Vicker in diapers!

Jonathan @ 65

But, PW, the rich have pulled ahead not because of the tax law. But because of far more powerful economic forces.

You’re kidding, right? Taxes were just one part, sure (top marginal tax rates were over 90% under Eisenhower, BTW), but Fed interest rates now work only to the benefit of the rich. They can borrow at (close to) Fed rates. Middle class pays at least 5 points more (assuming excellent credit, and they read the fine print).

The economic forces at work here are that Reagan bet that the only chance for the big bucks to stay in this country (after he finished eviscerating manufacturing) was to give the finance business in this country every conceivable advantage. Fallout from that? An S&L crisis. Quickly bailed out. Clinton did a bit better – he juiced hi-tech (to the point that it became a bubble, but at least it was something new). But all Bush has done is Reagan economics on steroids.

These economic forces are absolutely 100% politically created.

Elliott @ 78

raven @ 76

da Kine

don’t be bogartin’

Here, Bra, *kaff* some of my birthday riches…!!!

The U.S. has 4 tiers.

The really wealthy ($100 million and up)

The wealthy ($10 million – $100 million)

The upper-middle class ($1 million – $10 million)

Everyone else (93% of the population).

raven @ 84

mui @ 80

Why is that surprising?

Cuz I’m fucking old. Hell, I quit in 92!

After 25 years.

raven @ 84

mui @ 80

Why is that surprising?

Cuz I’m fucking old. Hell, I quit in 92!

You’re not old. Please. I thought you thought it surprising that Yale was actually trying to diversify in 1990. Tee hee. There’s a Maya Lin(?) sculpture in front of the Sterling Library at Yale. I think it’s inscibed with the percentage of women from the time Yale went co-ed on (making a wonderful feminist point). Yale is so backwards.

GordonM @ 90

Jonathan @ 65

But, PW, the rich have pulled ahead not because of the tax law. But because of far more powerful economic forces.

You’re kidding, right? Taxes were just one part, sure (top marginal tax rates were over 90% under Eisenhower, BTW), but Fed interest rates now work only to the benefit of the rich. They can borrow at (close to) Fed rates. Middle class pays at least 5 points more (assuming excellent credit, and they read the fine print).

The economic forces at work here are that Reagan bet that the only chance for the big bucks to stay in this country (after he finished eviscerating manufacturing) was to give the finance business in this country every conceivable advantage. Fallout from that? An S&L crisis. Quickly bailed out. Clinton did a bit better – he juiced hi-tech (to the point that it became a bubble, but at least it was something new). But all Bush has done is Reagan economics on steroids.

These economic forces are absolutely 100% politically created.

I think you make my point.

Cliff Varnell @ 85

mui @ 77
Average stuff,

I called it…Whadda they know about party’n — or anything else!

Nerds. But nice, actually. Good G*d what if Dana was there with a plastic cup and I missed my chance at having a cocktail weenie boyfriend?

Jonathan @ 92

The U.S. has 4 tiers.

The really wealthy ($100 million and up)

The wealthy ($10 million – $100 million)

The upper-middle class ($1 million – $10 million)

The amazing thing is that this elite 7% managed to get Joe Sixpack to believe it was in their best interest to vote for their candidate.

Everyone else (93% of the population).

mui @ 94

raven @ 84

Cuz I’m fucking old. Hell, I quit in 92!

You’re not old. Please. I thought you thought it surprising that Yale was actually trying to diversify in 1990. Tee hee. There’s a Maya Lin(?) sculpture in front of the Sterling Library at Yale. I think it’s inscibed with the percentage of women from the time Yale went co-ed on (making a wonderful feminist point). Yale is so backwards.

She has made some wonderful sculptures.

CTuttle @ 91

Elliott @ 78

don’t be bogartin’

Here, Bra, *kaff* some of my birthday riches…!!!

oo thanks, a birthday party!

Happy Happy

Did Bush name Paul Clement as Abu’s replacement?

Betcha those hedge fund managers at BearSterns, where the funds went empty on subprime loans, get paid just fine this year. No matter what kind of downstream pain is caused, the people who make the rules always make out fine.

Jonathan @ 95

I think you make my point.

OK – just that your snark is usually a bit more obvious.

Phoenix Woman @ 62

Hello, everyone!

People don’t understand just how far ahead of us the rich have pulled in the last few years, even while most of us tread water at best.

Isn’t the disparity at the same level as it was in the Roaring Twenties? Me thinkst we have a Depression ahead, not a Recession, we all the same dire consequences…

New Phoenix Woman upstairs

FYI, New post

ccmask @ 100

Did Bush name Paul Clement as Abu’s replacement?

Acting

Add this on to athletes’ incomes (Beckham, our new Chinese Red Sock @ $101m), it all curls my toes. But I’m a hospice nurse, the lowest of the low. Nurses in Boston are making 80K in some cases, hospital nurses are paid fairly well. The farther out of the city you move, income drops. The closer you get to peoples homes, the less you make. The closer you get to their deaths, it drops again. School nurses are also desperately underpaid. I choose to do what I do, and I also choose to work for a nonprofit, but it fries me that our renumeration priorities are so upside down.

raven @ 98

mui @ 94

You’re not old. Please. I thought you thought it surprising that Yale was actually trying to diversify in 1990. Tee hee. There’s a Maya Lin(?) sculpture in front of the Sterling Library at Yale. I think it’s inscibed with the percentage of women from the time Yale went co-ed on (making a wonderful feminist point). Yale is so backwards.

She has made some wonderful sculptures.

Maya Lin’s women’s table. You can’t see the inscriptions though, which really drive it home. Doggies seem to find the water irresistable.

oddball @ 97

The amazing thing is that this elite 7% managed to get Joe Sixpack to believe it was in their best interest to vote for their candidate.

Everyone else (93% of the population).

A couple years ago, it was something like 45% of the population thought they were in the top 10%. Looked for the numbers some time ago, but couldn’t find them. Truly scary numbers.

That’s Japanese Red Sock.. ;) and I agree.

There are only three solutions which come to mind. Become politically involved. Do nothing. Or have a revolution which must include a redistribution of wealth. Nothing is going to change until we get public financing of elections, some argue.

In order to right a corrupted financial system, one need only understand why things have gotten so bad over the years. Arron Russo knew the reasons, and you can enlighten yoursleves by watching this short video that was made eight months prior to Mr. Russos’ death this past Friday. In short, dump the Federal Reserve. Even Nick Rockefeller knew that.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ar….._aaron.htm

I see a new thread.

Thanks, Jay.

I’ve worked in Newport Beach, CA for quite awhile and many people think they are rich because they own a multi-million dollar home. What I see is multi-million dollar debt.

For some reason the most obnoxious (conspicuous consumption and arrogance) ones I know are mortgage brokers, and now that there is a downturn I don’t know how they will continue to keep up.

mui @ 108

raven @ 98

She has made some wonderful sculptures.

Maya Lin’s women’s table. You can’t see the inscriptions though, which really drive it home. Doggies seem to find the water irresistable.

While I am partial to the Wall for obvious reasons, the Civil Rights Memorial is really nice.

CTuttle @ 103

Isn’t the disparity at the same level as it was in the Roaring Twenties? Me thinkst we have a Depression ahead, not a Recession, we all the same dire consequences…

It’s worse. It’s around the 1890s. The good news is we know a lot more about maintaining an economy. The bad news is, that knowledge has been used to push it further.

raven @ 115

mui @ 108

Maya Lin’s women’s table. You can’t see the inscriptions though, which really drive it home. Doggies seem to find the water irresistable.

While I am partial to the Wall for obvious reasons, the Civil Rights Memorial is really nice.

I like Maya Lin’s stuff. I think we made fun of the Women’s table for being pretentious, but actually deep down I really like it.

Jonathan @ 92

The U.S. has 4 tiers.

The really wealthy ($100 million and up)

The wealthy ($10 million – $100 million)

The upper-middle class ($1 million – $10 million)

Everyone else (93% of the population).

Yup. And that 7% not only votes (either in person or absentee) at a higher rate than the rest of the population, but they control most of what we see and hear.

mui @ 117

raven @ 115

While I am partial to the Wall for obvious reasons, the Civil Rights Memorial is really nice.

I like Maya Lin’s stuff. I think we made fun of the Women’s table for being pretentious, but actually deep down I really like it.

There was whole bunch of people who didn’t like the Wall including the current liberal favorite anti-war Senator Jim Webb.

zennurse @ 107

Add this on to athletes’ incomes (Beckham, our new Chinese Red Sock @ $101m), it all curls my toes. But I’m a hospice nurse, the lowest of the low. Nurses in Boston are making 80K in some cases, hospital nurses are paid fairly well. The farther out of the city you move, income drops. The closer you get to peoples homes, the less you make. The closer you get to their deaths, it drops again. School nurses are also desperately underpaid. I choose to do what I do, and I also choose to work for a nonprofit, but it fries me that our renumeration priorities are so upside down.

I live in rural coastal Maine. The *only* display want ads in the paper are for nurses. Lots of those.

My mom is on hospice (I’m 24 hr backup). They are wonderful people. We’re charge $20/ hr for them (which means they get ? maybe $15 ? and have to pay for their own gas etc. ?).

Eureka Springs @ 48

Don’t we just bail them and their banking buddies out while they all rob us anyway? Like last Fridays news dump.

Fed bends rules to help two big banks
If the Federal Reserve is waiving a fundamental principle in banking regulation, the credit crunch must still be sapping the strength of America’s biggest banks. Fortune’s Peter Eavis documents an unusual Fed move.

Historically, this kind of rule bending doesn’t actually solve a problem and will usually rebound badly.

Note please that ordinary people who got upside down in their junk mortgages, and went broke, and had to give up their homes, and then somehow got forgiven some portion of their debts — are taxed on the forgiven portion. THAT’S ordinary income.

Compensation for a zillionaire hedge fund paperpusher? That’s not.

Jay @ 82

My wife and I are having trouble making ends meet for the first time since we’ve been married. Groceries are ridiculous, gas, electric, you name it and I’d bet it’s increased 15-20%. Have some major home improvement that’s been put on hold so that we can get caught up. I know I’m not alone by any stretch, but WTF? The greedy creeps in the 2nd percentile possess how much of the wealth? It’s just wrong.

They don’t see it that way at all. They see the economy working for them and they’re simply rakin’ in the dough and it’s nothing personal towards you, it’s just bidness.

What’s it to them if they make more money because oil is more expensive and you can’t take advantage of it?

Remember too, most people don’t really look very far beyond their own business interests and newspaper headlines. If those guys are making more money they probably just think it’s due to their good works and/or because God wants them to be rich (as John D. Rockefeller thought). Why should they feel guilty or think they’re doing something wrong or immoral?

You’ve got to have better arguments if you want to change the world. Just saying “it’s not right” ain’t gonna get it.

OTOH, if the markets crash and the dollar becomes toilet paper, then THAT would get their attention. But, even then, they wouldn’t think it was because they had done anything wrong. They’d just blame it on politicians or some market anomaly.

When you’re ‘winning’ it takes a lot to change your mind to prove to you that you’re not really winning, that you are in fact destroying civilization.

mui @ 69

Cliff Varnell @ 68

mui @ 53(i.e., because those are conspiracy theorists-types)

You rang?

Dana Milbank, Skull & Bones (’90).

I once went to a skull and bones party. My friend told me there would be good liquor and p*t.

I heard that Ann Coulter was the mascot of the skin and bones society.

GordonM @ 90

Jonathan @ 65

But, PW, the rich have pulled ahead not because of the tax law. But because of far more powerful economic forces.

You’re kidding, right? Taxes were just one part, sure (top marginal tax rates were over 90% under Eisenhower, BTW), but Fed interest rates now work only to the benefit of the rich. They can borrow at (close to) Fed rates. Middle class pays at least 5 points more (assuming excellent credit, and they read the fine print).

The economic forces at work here are that Reagan bet that the only chance for the big bucks to stay in this country (after he finished eviscerating manufacturing) was to give the finance business in this country every conceivable advantage. Fallout from that? An S&L crisis. Quickly bailed out. Clinton did a bit better – he juiced hi-tech (to the point that it became a bubble, but at least it was something new). But all Bush has done is Reagan economics on steroids.

These economic forces are absolutely 100% politically created.

Yeah, nobody wants to ‘earn it the old-fashioned way’. Nowadays they’re looking for the gimmick, the trick, the marketing niche, the monopoly or the political investment. If the system was better, then they would have to stick to actually producing something a customer would pay for.

That’s not to say things aren’t produced in this economy. They are. It’s just that there’s too much trickery as described above.

How do we get back to a sound economy which works well enough to avoid collapse? Nobody really knows for certain — and that scares the H*ll out of everybody.

TeddySanFran @ 101

Betcha those hedge fund managers at BearSterns, where the funds went empty on subprime loans, get paid just fine this year. No matter what kind of downstream pain is caused, the people who make the rules always make out fine.

That’s one of the very best indicators that we have a terribly unbalanced system. There is financial power and the poor. There is the corporate politicians and everybody else. There are people who pay less than their secretaries and there is the secretary. The imbalance is killing us and nobody really knows how to shift back toward balance by convincing the more powerful among us that it’s not only desirable, but absolutely to THEIR self-interest.

CTuttle @ 103

Phoenix Woman @ 62

Hello, everyone!

People don’t understand just how far ahead of us the rich have pulled in the last few years, even while most of us tread water at best.

Isn’t the disparity at the same level as it was in the Roaring Twenties? Me thinkst we have a Depression ahead, not a Recession, we all the same dire consequences…

I’ve argued for some time that it’s less likely or that it will take a greater stress to make our house of cards collapse. But, reading a day or two ago I saw a post stating that something like 80-110% of all the world’s credit is taken by America. Notice it doesn’t say 80-100, it says 80-110 percent. I don’t know how it gets above 100, but the very fact that America alone can take 80% of the world’s investment dollars means the rest of the world is just idling until it can get more cash flow. What happens if America crashes and that credit relationship to the rest of the world yanks on those economies? Everybody crashes because it is a world economy when we’re tied together that way.

Sure, there are better controls to prevent crashes, but if the right problem hits hard, as the current housing mortgage crisis might, then what’s to stop the tight inter-relationship of insurance, mortgage companies, banks and national banks/reserves to all go down together?

It’s worrisome, to say the least.

Do Republicans and the Rich care? Sure, but they’re not going to do anything proactive to keep it all going. They just look out for number ONE because they were always taught to do that by dear ol’ dad, just like Dubya was.

Sadly, we have a whole generation of self-centered, arrogant pricks who run the world.

I think “the rich are different” was F Scott Fitzgerald’s line. Hemingway was to the point: “Yes, they have more money.”

Jonathan @ 92

The U.S. has 4 tiers.

The really wealthy ($100 million and up)

The wealthy ($10 million – $100 million)

The upper-middle class ($1 million – $10 million)

Everyone else (93% of the population).

FYI, the upper middle class are being deliberately hammered by Bush policy; they now often pay the highest tax rates, higher than the upper two tiers pay. (And most of us know it.) Health insurance is available but absurdly expensive for this range. Bush is trying to destroy them as well as everyone else.

They’re almost all of the remaining 7% of the population. Bushco is running things for the benefit of the top 1/3 of 1%. This is unsustainable, and also dangerous to the personal safety of the rich. Some of the ultra-wealthy recognize this: Soros, Buffett.

Incidentally, there’s no excuse for taxing capital gains at lower rates than earned income. Currently, working for your living is taxed at far higher rates than stock speculation.

It should obviously be the other way around.