Here’s the Sunday talking head line-up:
ABC’s “This Week” – Sens. Jim Webb, D-Va., and John Cornyn, R-Texas; former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers.
CBS’ “Face the Nation” – Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., and his wife, Elizabeth.
NBC’s “Meet the Press” – Sen. John Warner, R-Va.; cyclist Lance Armstrong.
CNN’s “Late Edition” – Former Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi; New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson; Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.; Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 U.S. military commander in Iraq; former Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga.
“Fox News Sunday” – Sens. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., and Jack Reed, D-R.I.; former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.
Today’s gorgeous shot of a hummingbird pair is from Julie’s Magic Light Show. Love this one!
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Hummingbirds are awesome.
first?
John & Elizabeth on FTN?
Here’s a song for the day…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Allawi doing some PR work on CNN.
Good morning Christy!
solai @ 3
I don’t suppose there was any mention of that little contract he has with the PR firm, was there?
Good morning everybody! Beautiful day breaking here. Enjoying the first cup and catching the Washington Journal.
Mornin’ Christy and all.
Mornin’, Christy!
I’ve been trying to figure out the difference (if that’s the right word) between Act Blue and Blue America. Is the latter a subset of the former?
EPU’d
Boston1775 says:
August 26th, 2007 at 5:17 am
Jimmy Carter’s take on faith-based money:
But the Baptist Sunday School teacher saved some of his harshest criticism for Bush’s “faithbased” agenda.
Citing an article in The New York Times, Carter said hundreds of millions of dollars in federal earmarks are now going to fund religious institutions.
“Individual churches and religious seminaries and other strictly religious organizations have their own lobbyists now in Washington to make sure they get their share of taxpayers’ funds. And, as you know, the policy from the White House has been to allocate funds to religious institutions, even those that channel those funds exclusively to their own particular group of believers in a particular religion. Those things in my opinion are quite disturbing,” Carter said.
“As a traditional Baptist, I’ve always believed in separation of church and state and honored that premise when I was president, and so have all other presidents, I might say, except this one.”
Here’s the whole story.
Where are the OVERSIGHT HEARINGS?
Here’s the whole story on Jimmy Carter. How can there be no OVERSIGHT on the supposed better programs and their multibillion dollar cost?
That interview on FDL with Jerry McNerney was depressing. He sounds like an answering machine.
Good morning all,
Still unpacking. Still trying to settle in. Lots more to do. I’ll be glad when this phase passes and I’m back both on a regular work schedule and on the threads.
I noticed that Glenn Greenwald is also on CSpan2 this morning at 9:30 ET with his latest book, Tragic Legacy. Gotta motivate myself to get down to the DVD recorder and get that one on disc.
rootless2 @ 11
Really, I still can’t get over it. The man just doesn’t have a clue as to the pulse of the nation. Jane has a column up downstream where Reichert compares Democrats to serial killers. McNerney should be sent a copy of it as he still thinks he can reach across the aisle to these idiots. I was totally unimpressed with his answers. Glad he is not my congress critter although my district is about to change with the retirement of Hastert. Goota make sure I don’t get a “Bushdog” in return.
Morning Christy, morning dogs…
Looking forward to Greenwald on C-Span
flatford39 @ 13
John Laesch is not and will not be a Bush Dog. He needs our support. He’s gotten it in the past and I hope we can get him to the finish line rather than someone that Rahm picks.
@flatford39
What got me was his absolute unwillingness to engage. He kept saying “we need a veto proof majority” which is like “we need a magic fairy to give us presents.”
And he refused to even acknowledge the argument that votes expose republicans to pressure.
Seems to be a connection between “big news” of Warner speaking out against surge and some Dems (like McNerney in Wapo) wussing out on criticism of surge.
Did you all see the Rolling Stone article on Iraq corruption? I’m off today to buy the issue. They deserve to be rewarded for printing it. Plus I want to bring it to work and set it (nonchalantly) in the break room.
Ummmm….do you think this will get as much play as the O’Hanlon article?
Where are the OVERSIGHT HEARINGS?
Returning soon to a C-Span station near you.
So many crimes, so little time.
61 United States soldiers dead in Iraq since Congress went on vacation.
I see that McNerney is still on the Blue America page.
Now I made a small contribution to Darcy Burner yesterday, but I wouldn’t dream of giving McNerney another penny.
Maybe we can just let him think that he still has our support.
solai @ 18
you funny
solai @ 18
Answering the question politely…. no.
Answering the question correctly….. Hell No!!
I read it, and found that I just kept laughing. I’m afraid that I might well be losing it. Complete fraud-overload.
Is there a working link to the RS article?
jayt~ I think that to those of us who beleive that we see clearly all the lies and (insert your own adjective here) of this administration just can not understand how folks in DC can’t get it. They seem to be unable to understand how bad it is and that we know it. My sister said, after attending one of the last hearings prior to recess, that they reminded her of teenagers with ipods in their ears…they just can’t get it and I can’t get why…I can see it, but I do not understand it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/po…..aq_swindle
RS article
sangemon @ 23
Doh!
OT for anyone who has trouble creating links. I could never do it. I think my computer was blocking something. Really not sure why. Anyway, for anyone who is used to copying and pasting for MS Excel or MS Word, it works the same.
-highlight address
-rt click mouse and click ‘copy’
-come back to comments. Rt click mouse and click ‘paste’
Boston1775 @ 10
Because any oversight of the “faith-based” programs and community would be called “government interference with religion” and be against the “separation of church and state.”
Like with everything else, there is a very selective interpretation of the Constitution. When it suits their needs, they’re for it; when it doesn’t, they’re against it.
Regarding the RS article, this is something that Randi Rhodes has been saying for years. They WANT chaos in Iraq so they can steal. Steal Iraq’s resources, steal the US treasury, there is SO MUCH MONEY being made it makes me wonder why the left has so much trouble framing the underlying issue to everythng that has happened in the USA in the last quarter century.
It’s the money. Oil money, corporate money, taxpayer money…money.
After reading the DemocracyArsenal site, I have some appreciation of the layers of stupidity that Democratic Congresspeople exist within. It may be that the society there is so drenched in delusion that it’s hard to break out. Or maybe they are scared of getting anthrax packets in the mail or maybe its all an elaborate show to convince us there is some opposition.
Morning all — man, it takes much longer to get some blueberry muffins in the oven when you have “help”. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
Damn! I wish I had some of those.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
Yeah, but it’s a lot more fun.
Morning, Christy.
What special persuasive power does Jerry NcNerney believe he has that will allow him to change the minds of Republicans that have solidly supported the war for years? If their own morality has not compelled them to change their views, then how would a hand-holding session with McNerney make any difference? What does he bring to the negotiation table that isn’t already there?
Republicans in Congress who have not yet changed their minds on the war are not about to be kumbayahed into a new position. If their consciences were susceptible to such considerations, they would already have come around.
Speaking in public about finding bipartisan solutions and negotiating with the President -as McNerney has done – serves to muddy the waters and blur the distinctions between those who want to end the war and those who hope to continue it. McNerney’s conciliatory rhetoric allows Republicans to suffer mininum political fallout while continuing to support the Bush agenda. It gives them the cover they need to perpetuate the war.
The only way to get Republicans to change is to force them to endure unrelenting political pressure until they relent to the popular will.
How is this to be done?
Pass legislation to end the war, repeatedly.
Force Republicans in Congress to support Bush’s vetoes of anti-war legislation – over and over and over until they crack.
Not particularly complicated. Why doesn’t McNerney see it?
solai @ 27
solai,
Here’s some instructions (from Pandagon) on how to do links and other things in html.
RevDeb @ 15
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
And you’re lovin’ every minute of it!
Veritas — ActBlue is the company that was set up to process donations to Democratic candidates. It’s a tool — you can sign up as an ActBlue host yourself and register your own candidates in your own forum and raise money for them. It’s essentially a way for folks to band together and tally their aggregate donations in a simple, easy format.
BlueAmerica is the group of candidates that FDL, Down With Tyranny, Crooks and Liars and Digby support. It’s our little fundraising group for candidates. Just like it says on our BlueAmerica page.
*xyz@35
It was a spooky discussion. Like talking to a crazy person.
On a lighter note. Stephen Colbert’s cast is up to $10,910. Who are these people bidding??
http://search.ebay.com/search/…..le=colbert cast&category0=
sangemon @ 20
He won’t get a cent from me again. Some friends wrote to Howie after the FDL non responsive session from Jerry, they haven’t gotten a reply. There were 35 of them watching the exchange, they have donated thousands to Act Blue for candidates that Howie has put forward. They are really angry, I hope he answers their questions!
This was probably already posted but these are good bumbersticker ideas!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..61831.html
On a brighter note, a deluded naive close minded sucker is still a lot better than Pombo.
Messed up the last time, but….
On Jerry McNerney. I bet the August trip he took with Hoyer and 16 other Dems to Isr*el sponsored by A*P*C was a factor. While this sort of tax-payer funded trip is supposed to be educational, I am sure that it was heavy on the pro-war, pro-surge side. I also would be curious about the impact of this on others who went. Anyone know?
http://bokertov.typepad.com/bt…..nes-i.html
Heard at the BK (Boy King) drive-thru:
- What will be your order Junya?
- Ah’ve need mah usual dozen Whoppers.
- Do you want Lies with that too?
- Yup, lots and lots of Lies. Gotta speak to the public and ah want to make sure there’s enough to go around. Matter of fact, why don’t you Super-size me?
We now return to our regularly scheduled program Bedtime for Gonzo.
Hi Mods, is there something I wrote that is getting me caught in the grinder this morning?
RevDeb @ 12
Thanks for the heads up on this. I will record it.
My post at 42 should have said Blue America, not Act Blue…sorry :)
Speaking of hummingbirds. Try the Hummingbird in in VA. It a lovely B&B with lots of hummingbirds.
rootless2 at 40 — No, not really. It was a group of readers talking past a candidate who had a disagreement on tactical strategy. It’s been odd to watch people turn on McNerney because he’s advancing an idea that gets us where we want to go on Iraq more slowly than most folks who read here would like. Itdoesn’t make him a bad person, nor does it make him wrong on the math — on the math, he’s correct, without a veto-proof majority and Bush still President, we don’t get any change. The difference is in how we can tactically press the issue — and on that we disagree. Tactics can be changed, and for a freshman congressperson who doesn’t have a lot of power to make those changes, McNerney is trying to find some way to make himself useful toward getting us out of Iraq anyway.
Which is a hell of a lot more than we ever got out of Carney or the Blue Dogs. If we are going to expect constant perfection from every politician in DC, we are going to have a long wait — because there are no perfect ones. None. The best we can do is herd them toward better choices — and engaging in conversations with them like the one we did with McNerney the other day and in ones that are upcoming every single week — that makes a huge difference over the long run.
No one wants to hear that change cannot be instant. But it can’t. Not under the current set of circumstances, with the voting margins so close and a President who can’t admit he needs to change a damn thing. It’s just not possible without tactical shifts…and we are working on that, but we need to pull together to get there, not rip each other apart. But that’s just my two cents — McNerney had guts enough to get into the fray and talk with everyone and think and care about what they were saying, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for a whole host of names that I could rattle off the top of my head.
Did anyone watch the CNN Christine Amanpour report? If nothing else it was a look at the rise of religion in the entire world. Scary stuff.
Good morning everyone.
Can you please post some blueberry muffins when they’re done so we can download them?
God I’m so weak, now I have to have a blueberry muffin.
SanderO @ 52
I tivoed all 3 parts. Haven’t watched them yet. I have heard they are very good.
It isn’t for me to decide, but I hope to see McNerney removed from Blue America soon.
If McNerney improves in the future, he can always be invited back to Blue America.
But at the moment, it is clear that he has turned his back on his constituents and supporters on a critical issue. There should be appropriate fiancial consequences for this.
*xyz @ 35
Since the McNerney interview, I’ve had the strange suspicion that his constant repetition of “Veto-Proof Majority” was in fact the approved “Talking Point” as mandated by the Democratic Congressional Leadership.
I can hear Pelosi, Hoyer and Rahm now: “Manana! Tell ‘em Manana!”
Kinda like: “Si Senor Custer, the cavalry, she is comin’ manana.”
SanderO at 52 — I Tivo’d it, and haven’t had a chance to watch it yet. The promo spots that I saw for it looked very intriguing, though. Was it good? I generally like her reporting because it always leaves me asking a lot of in depth questions for which she never provides full answers — so I’m always going off to find more information on the subjects she covers. Love that.
FYI
Glenn coming up in 5 minutes on CSpan2.
Christy, while I respect your opinion about Jerry. I don’t think everyone wants a quick fix, or expects one. I don’t believe for a second that there IS a quick fix available. But for him to come on here and just repeat a talking point about bringing Republicans over to the right side is simply unintelligent and doesn’t wash in my book. As we ALL know here, by watching Arlen S. and the other wishy-washy gang, they cannot be trusted, so why use that tactic to get things accomplished. He didn’t answer ANY of the tough questions presented by the really bright and engaging posters who frequent this blog. He was stalling in my book and that is spineless. I have had enough of Dems like him.I certainly am not going to give him ANY of my hard earned money. Just my .02 cents
Millineryman @ 53
It took me all week long to work of Montol’s chocolate orange cheese cake posted here last Sunday. Be wary of what you ask for.
Christy @ 51 -
I agree that this may be a disagreement about tactics, but McNerney ran on an anti-war platfrom and he has in a sense betrayed that platform. I think that what we need to do is to let politicians like McNerney know that if they stand up to the Thugs they will have our support. If they don’t, they risk losing it.
I wouldn’t be so sure on that, RevDeb. There’s something about JLaesch that’s just not right. I’m going to go with Bill Foster, entrepeneur and scientist who helped get Patrick Murphy elected in PA in 06. Foster will probably be supported by DCCC, but maybe they have this one right. Word is that Rove is coming to the 14th with big money to help protect the Hastert seat.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 56
I watched parts of it — kind of hard to focus with my son wanting to tell me every little thing about his first three days of kindergarten — and it was pretty good. As one who has followed the rise of fundies (Christian, Jewish, and Islamic) over the years, much was familiar to me, but likely would be an eyeopener to others.
I found her interview with Jimmy Carter after she interviewed Falwell to be especially good.
Franco – well said and I agree!
*xyz @ 35
i wasn’t around for the mcnerney chat, but i went back and read through it… and while i agree with your analysis, the most frustrating thing for me was that he just kept repeating his “veto proof majority” talking point with no explanation.
i would have loved it if he’d been willing to tell us how he came to that conclusion – what alternative strategies he considered (yours should be one of them), his analysis of the pros and cons of each, his plan for success and how his recent actions are consistent with his plan.
it’s a lot easier for me to support people with whom i have tactical disagreements, if i know where they are coming from and am convinced that we actually have the same goals. can’t get there from here is all i get is a talking point repetition.
xya — That’s something that Howie, Jane, John and Digby will talk about at some point soon, I’m sure. And when and if a decision is made, I’m sure they’ll let everyone know. As you guys all know, we try to inject as much transparency as we can when we can. And, in the meantime, we get to occasionally sleep in a little on a weekend or take a couple of hours off the site to live our lives. So, we’ll get to something soon…but patience is, indeed, a virtue.
dakine01 @ 28
Billions of taxpayer dollars going for “compassionate results” in curbing crime, addiction, family counseling, prison programs and so much more.
Taxpayers demand OVERSIGHT. None of Bush’s assertions that churches do a better job at social services have been proved.
In the last Supreme Court decision, individual taxpayers who brought a case against Jay Hein, the Faith-based Czar (they are trying to make this into a Cabinet position!!!!), were told that because the billions were authorized by the Executive Branch, not Congress, they do not have standing in seeking investigation into dollars spent.
This Faith-Based Initiative was created by an Executive Order.
Catch 22: Because it was created by the Executive Branch, citizens have no standing in the dispensation of the billions, even though it’s taxpayers’ dollars.
There will never be a veto-proof majority during the Bush presidency. Even discussing it is a waste of time. What needs to be talked about is a tactic to end the war without one.
Again, MONEY.
If McNerney had presented a plan to support his view about achieving a veto proof majority, I would’ve came away from the chat with a better sense of where he’s coming from.
As it stands now, he didn’t think through what his plan to engage his allies, which gives me little hope that he has a plan to deal with his adversaries.
Boston1775 @ 67
Good morning all. My lurking limit is up to at least 5 minutes.
How much money can be distributed by executive order?
Frank Rich is away this week, but there are two “notable” op eds. Friedman is as much an idiot warmongering liar as ever, and worse he claims that since the Rethugs were able to be so effective in Swiftboating Kerry and Cleland, why can’t they do the same for Osama (whom he then links to Iraq). :-(
But there is also an interesting chart up comparing the House and the Senate actions this term. The Dem House leadership really has made a major difference in terms of increased activity (of course the Preznit hasn’t signed much stuff). No change practically in the Senate, except it seems Leahy and a few others pressing with oversight. We really do need to get the Senate next time round (discounting Lieberman), alas we would been in much better place now except for Schumer, Emmanuel, the Clintons and the rest of the DLC supporting Lieberman.
I stayed up to 3 am. Yes it was good.
Re McNerey. Observe how congress critters ALL ALL ALL parse their words and seem to not want to be committal AFTER they enter congress. It’s like they are wearing a leash and collar.
What do you think it is?
Their opposing constituents?
The leadership?
A new perspective after some “special” briefings”?
Why is this so common? You elect them and they go limp.
Richmond @ 59
Chocolate orange cheesecake? WHERE? Boy, I’ve missed more than I thought!
Frankco at 59 — What if he really believes what he was saying? What if he’s had behind the scenes conversations with a number of folks in the GOP who are ready to jump ship on voting? What if it wasn’t a talking point for him but was, indeed, what he thinks is best?
That’s what I’m trying to get at — and the comparison with where he is versus where, say, Brian Baird is? I want out of Iraq — I don’t think that ought to be a question at this point. I have too many friends and family that keep getting rotated back in and out of that mess and so do too many other people that I know and care about. We are screwing things up beyond any failure I could ever have imagined in my worst nightmare. But does that mean that any person who disagrees with me on that is an evil human being? No. Does it mean that someone who disagrees with me on how quickly things should go should just be thrown over to the side? Not necessarily — it depends on a whole lot of issues, not just a single one for me. Does it mean that I disagree with them anyway, and that I’ll keep working to change their minds? Absolutely, until we are doing better, which, in all honesty, is going to take a while. And we do not have the margins in the House or the Senate right now to throw away someone whose opinion can be reshaped into something better because they are already halfway there anyway. But that’s the pragmatist in me, who has done a whip count on the Iraq issue in her sleep on occasion — my opinion doesn’t control anything but me.
Richmond @ 60
Wow, I missed that. Does that sound yummy.
jimjr @ 61
Laesch has been at YKos for the past 2 years and lots of us had time to talk with him. Can you say more about what isn’t right about him?
Just for info, I live in Florida we have that loser Bill Nelson who is a huge DINO, so we know what it is like to hear that kind of rhetoric that Jerry was espousing. We also have Wasserman-Schultz who we hope will run for Senate next time. She is a real progressive, she is constantly around here talking and listening to the concerns of the people here in So Florida. Nelson on the other hand never does anything.The Cuban-American population who voted both for Nelson and Martinez are becoming completely turned off to the wingnuts and Dinos. We have a real chance to have 2 Democratic progressive senators in the future.
TexBetsy @ 70
I don’t know about amounts, but you take a ride into western Pennsylvania, southern Virginia or northern Maine (Susan Collins territory) and you will see hundreds of mega church buildings all along the highways, or now under construction (many including massive church school additions). THey must be a major boon to the local economies. LIke the Iraq war- here too we see our tax dollars hard at work – for the rethug party.
sangemon @ 68
There won’t ever be a veto-proof majority with the current, milquetoast, Democratic leadership in charge. They are setting the stage for a Republic rebound.
selise @ 64
For a lot of reasons, I like McNerney, but the talking point repeptition really bothered me, too. I wish he had gone beyond repetition, to say more about how he sees that it is possible to peel off some GOP members to reach that veto-proof majority, and how folks like us can help that to happen. As things went, it sounded more like “you don’t know what you’re talking about, so pipe down.” OK, for the sake of argument, let’s say that it’s true that I don’t know what I’m talking about: Jerry didn’t do much to help enlighten me.
Glenn Greenwald up on CSPAN2
RevDeb @ 73
Last week Saturday morning, I think. And the “telling” of the recipe with Rethug comments scattered throughout was almost as good as the recipe itself. Definitely should go in there as a classic FDL comment, worthy of a post in its own right. Damn it was good.
Wrt the RS article:
A writer named Pratap Chatterjee was mentioned with a to-be published book titled Baghdad Bonanza. I’ve googled Amazon plus author name plus title in an effort to find a print date with no success. Anybody got other ideas of where I might go to look or should I just assume it’s TBD?
Christy@74
I hear you. I guess I was really upset by the way he came across here the other night.
RevDeb- what do you think of Tsongas? I heard her commercial and she seemed a cut above the rest, alas, even without experience.
The terribly upsetting thing is the guy who is programming xtian teens as an army. They went to SF in the belly of the beast to stir it up. What a creep this guy is and how scary that these kids are brainwashed into this nonsense.
Religion is the opiate of the people.
And this is a worldwide phenomena and based on “the world of god”. Scary stuff. A false premise which is driving extreme passions and war.
One stat cited was that 53% of Americans believe in Creationism. If that’s true. There’s no hope for America as a democracy based on the principles of the enlightenment.
Richmond @ 84
The local progressives are all strongly supporting Jamie Eldredge. Tsongas has the money and the name but she’s a middle of the roader.
RevDeb @ 87
Thanks for the heads up on Eldredge!
Franco — Love Wasserman-Shultz. She’s such a hard worker — and sharp as a tack. I know Howie has some issues with her votes on a couple of issues, but my interaction with her has been superb, she’s willing to dig in and do the work that needs to be done — sad to say, that is far to rare on the Hill, and I love her for it.
RevDeb @ 73
here. i book marked if for future reference. i recommend you read now for the pleasure of the writing.
Richmond @ 81
Here you go!
Last night Waccamaw linked to this Rolling Stone article on Iraq contractors. If you haven’t read it yet, please do. It is a 5 pager and I’m only on page 4. Had to stop to lift my jaw off the floor.
I am in the construction and manufacturing field and a couple of years ago our sales staff tried to get in on the bidding process with the government. We tried everything. Sent requests by regular mail and email and telephone to government agencies and contractors and sub contractors. We never received one response. After reading the Rolling Stone article, I am so pissed off realizing the waste of time our company spent on our big fat fruitless attempt to participate in capturing a government contract. We have a large plant, plenty of workers and we were poised to be able win a bid and deliver on time. What a joke.
TexBetsy @ 69
Hi TexB, It’s not that the Executive Order directs the spending of specific monies for specific religious programs; it is that the Faith-Based Initiative was created BY Executive Order and thus, taxpayers have no standing to challenge how the tax monies are spent.
That was a 5-4 ruling, of course.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 51
McNerney’s willingness to show up and talk with us about where he was coming from was very enlightening for me. I felt coming out that I understood a bit more about the disconnect we’re experiencing with our elected officials over Iraq, the CW they’re mired in that makes it so difficult to affect the situation.
My personal feeling, and I speak for no one else, is that McNerney’s willingness to show up and hear everyone out — and the people who expressed themselves on this page did so absolutely eloquently, I could not have been prouder — counted for a lot. I think it’s important to watch what he does going forward. If he shows up in the WaPo next week repeating GOP talking points, I think we have our answer. If he doesn’t — maybe it did some good.
selise @ 89
merci beaucoup.
McN may know something that he’s not letting on to.. a secret plan to end the war. But his non responsiveness to FDL was appalling and inexcusable.
I don’t care for the lack of transparency and secrecy of government and I think if he is being dodgey… it STILL doesn’t sit well with me.
Rolling Stone Contracting in Iraq article here.
Christy: No, not really. It was a group of readers talking past a candidate who had a disagreement on tactical strategy. It’s been odd to watch people turn on McNerney because he’s advancing an idea that gets us where we want to go on Iraq more slowly than most folks who read here would like.
If McNerney had been able to articulate how his voting against the party and muddying comments would result in anything positive – it would have been less annoying. But he just repeated over and over his mantra about needing a super majority without confronting the argument that only being forced to vote over and over would put pressure on republicans. And he refused to acknowledge that Congress does not need a veto proof majority to refuse to fund something. Disagreements are one thing. This was not a disagreement. It was a refusal to engage.
ccmask @ 92
Did your company have a GSA number?
Christy@89
She really is. She is incredibly articulate. She really listens, let’s people tell her what they think. I am curious as to what votes Howie didn’t like that she cast?
Jane at 94 — Yep, as I said yesterday, I’ll be watching his actions over the next few weeks. Carney’s actions after his vote wer more instructive — and have continued to be — in terms of who he is than any amount of interviews and discussions could ever be. Here’s hoping McNerney is a “learn from my mistakes” sort of guy and not a “dig myself a deeper hole” sort like Carney has been. *g*
I haven’t read the complete McNerney conversation, but I’d like to pose another angle. Isn’t he an engineer? So I’ll now reveal more about the engineers I know than anything that might be useful about McNerney.
But he strikes me as a cautious engineer, one who may process things internally and then come to his conclusion before he discusses it. Yes, it would be good if he explains all his reasons in terms that we can understand, but if it doesn’t have verifiable numbers, he’s uncomfortable putting his reasons out there.
If it is an emotional response, the engineers I know don’t have emotional vocabulary. So there is a lot of repetition of a conclusion, not an exploration of the process to reach the conclusion.
Badwater @ 99
Yes. Our Sales Manager did everything by the book.
I got this yesterday from a candidate opposing a BushHouse regular.
“A New Direction in Iraq”
[The] “. . .Iraq war is a foreign policy disaster. We must undertake genuine diplomatic initiatives so that we can bring our troops home as soon as possible. And we must make sure our returning soldiers receive the quality health care and benefits they deserve.”
This is a candidate who has lined up for the DCCC money. Is this the DCCC talking point? Anyone else got this wording yet?
I have to say I consider this candidate a “friend.” Who likely would say US out NOW except for DCCC promi$e$. Candidate gonna hear from me on this and the DCCC problem.
The Israel thing has gone terribly wrong. They are are controlled by religious zealots and have way too much influence in the US policy. Their policies have alienated their neighbors and this has resulted in so much violence. I’d bet Debbie Wasserman Shultz is pro Israel and that is a flaw. She’s a Jew and has lots of Jewish constituents who identify too much with Israel. Israel is a big problem because it is a battleground of the faiths.
Why are we fighting over religion in the 21st century?
[CHS notes: I’m certain that you didn’t mean this in a loaded way, but this comes dangerously close to a stereotyping line for me. See my response below in the thread.]
Waccamaw @ 83
couldn’t even find the publisher’s name but found this article, Fixing Iraq, by him from March
Between McNerney’s talk on FDL, Greenwalds interview with Chris Dodd, and Atrios’ exchange with those chuckleheads at DemocracyArsenal, you start to get a possible explanation of why Democrats in DC seem to be on drugs. They are under such a waterfall of authoritatively stated nonsense that it seems to hammer them to the ground.
Well, Glenn Greenwald is just presenting all these facts to the CATO Inst. I really love him.
IMO, McNerney came here to see how his message would play.
In any event, the veto-proof majority idea is flawed.
Dems very well may get a veto-proof majority in congress in 2008.
But they won’t use their majority against either Hillary or Rudy.
McNerney knows that.
Franco @ 108
I am enjoying watching it as well. What a speaker!
Peterr @ 80
McNerney seemed to be fixated on two points:
– To do anything we need a vetoproof majority.
– To obtain that majority, we need to reach out to reasonable Republicans.
Taking them in reverse order, there aren’t that many reasonable Republicans and after you’ve “reached out to them,” you’ll have compromised your agenda so badly that you’ll be part of the problem. That’s what happened on MCA, FISA-fix, and everything else. So, give up on that.
Now about the need for a vetoproof majority. McNerney said something to the effect that “We can’t send back a bill that … because he’ll just veto it again.” My question is, “So what?” If the President vetos a bill, he is the one who is blocking action. And, it’s now the fault of the Republicans for not joining in and overriding that veto. Forcing him to veto puts the ball into their court. That’s a good thing.
I am printing the article and hanging it up at work for all those in the plant to see. I am so mad I could spit. I’m glad I didn’t read it last night or I never would have slept. And that fake bidding pisses me off more. That’s when they know who is doing the project but they need three bids. Geez…off to finish the article. Wish I had a quaalude right now to calm me down.
SanderO at 105 — You know, I have a number of Jewish friends who are pro-peace. Just because someone is Jewish it doesn’t mean they are best pals with BiBi. And we would all do well to remember that — because a whole host of pre-peace jewish folks read here — and declaring that all Jews are “such and such” is incredibly insulting and not nearly nuanced enough for the reality of the situation. Being pro-Israel doesn’t necessarily mean being pro-war — just as being pro-American doesn’t necessarily mean you are a Bush supporter. So let’s all try not to deal in two-dimensional, inaccurate stereotypes, shall we?
Good morning from L.A. Thanks for the heads up on Jim Webb’s appearance, CHS. One of the few I’ll always try to watch.
Sunday op-ed from Doug Brinkley in WaPo delineates the nightmare of federal inaction in NOLA that is the equivalent of holding the city’s head under water for 2 yrs. to complete the drowning Katrina began:
Reckless Abandonment
(Free reg. @ WaPo required to access the whole article, but here are the opening graphs):
“Over the past two years since Hurricane Katrina, I’ve seen waves of hardworking volunteers from nonprofits, faith-based groups and college campuses descend on New Orleans, full of compassion and hope.
They arrive in the city’s Ninth Ward to painstakingly gut houses one by one. Their jaws drop as they wander around afflicted zones, gazing at the towering mounds of debris and uprooted infrastructure.
After weeks of grueling labor, they realize that they are running in place, toiling in a surreal vacuum.
Two full years after the hurricane, the Big Easy is barely limping along, unable to make truly meaningful reconstruction progress. The most important issues concerning the city’s long-term survival are still up in the air. Why is no Herculean clean-up effort underway? Why hasn’t President Bush named a high-profile czar such as Colin Powell or James Baker to oversee the ongoing disaster? Where is the U.S. government’s participation in the rebuilding?
And why are volunteers practically the only ones working to reconstruct homes in communities that may never again have sewage service, garbage collection or electricity?
Eventually, the volunteers’ altruism turns to bewilderment and finally to outrage. They’ve been hoodwinked. The stalled recovery can’t be blamed on bureaucratic inertia or red tape alone. Many volunteers come to understand what I’ve concluded is the heartless reality: The Bush administration actually wants these neighborhoods below sea level to die on the vine…”
Jane Hamsher @ 94
jane – would love (at some point) to read your analysis of ” the disconnect we’re experiencing with our elected officials over Iraq, the CW they’re mired in that makes it so difficult to affect the situation.” i still feel pretty confused.
and yes, although mcnerney didn’t explain his position, the commenters did a great job explaning their views. now if only he will take seriously what they had to say…
ccmask @ 103
Were you a Bush Ranger, if not, there’s your trouble.
WRT Jerry McN, I got this from Give ‘em Hell Harry (in your dreams) the other day.
Elliott @ 116
Ah, but that’s a tip from a different book, init?
Christy at 113 is soooooooo right. My partner is Jewish and all of his friends and their relatives that I have come across are pro-Israel and anti-war. I think Christy made a GREAT point. I travel to Europe alot, and I have to constantly explain that just because I am American doesn’t mean I am pro war or pro Chimpy’s administration. In fact when you tell some Europeans that 71% of Americans want us out of Iraq, they completely change their attitude, although they find it hard to believe, that if 71% want out, WHY we can’t get rid of Chimpy?…..no kidding huh?
Wow, Greenwald is just great.
It did’t seem to me that we were talking past McNerney.
Rather, it seemed that McNerney wasn’t really listening to us. And that is not good.
Hopefully, going forward, he will take time to carefully consider the merits of our arguments.
As Jane rightly observes, time will tell.
wigwam @ 110
I agree with your tactical plan myself, which is why I wish Jerry had taken the opportunity to discuss tactics more. If he sees a flaw in that idea, I’d love to hear about it. If he has a better idea, let’s hear about that too.
So, as Jane and Christy have said above, let’s wait and watch. Yeah, I hate waiting, but sometimes it’s what you have to do.
When I spoke above about his appeal to me, it has to do with his environmental and science focus — such a huge breath of fresh air (so to speak) after Pombo.
We were not Bush Rangers, but that would have been some $5,000 investment, right?
Maybe what the Dems can do is take another tack-Attack Bushco from a different angle where they can’t fight back-For instance ask questions like this-What is the maximum US casualties you will accept before you are willing to concede the Iraqis are more willing to kill each other than have a democracy? Or-How is it if the Iraqi parliament hasn’t been able to pass any laws that they have a court system that is executing people and how can that be a democracy and why are we supporting such a thing?
Or-Why can’t the Iraqis get the power on? it would seem that even AlQaida would like air-conditioning.
Stuff like that.
Got to run . . . it’s a work day! *g*
Franco @ 59
Christy, I agree with Franco.
One of my main problems with McNerney [other than “donor’s remorse” over having contributed to him] is that he clings to a “solution” that’s completely impractical.
To continue my analogy from yesterday, it’s as if one’s “goal” is to climb Mt. Everest, and you say, “yep, I think I’ll start by cutting potato chips out of my diet.” Nice thought, but ain’t gonna get you where you need to go — at least not any time soon.
McNerney’s solution, if you parse it out, is also convoluted and fantasy-based. Think about it: he’s pushing a “veto-proof majority.” That means
** convincing Republicans to vote with Dems on “out of Iraq” bills;
** believing that Blue Dog Dems won’t desert on the votes on those same bills [such that you need a much larger number of “converts” to be veto-proof;
** assuring that all those Reps and Dems vote to override Bush’s veto of any out-of-Iraq bills — yeah, that’s gonna happen!!!
This “scenario” is like trying to take pudding out for a walk: it’s a big mess, and quite unrealistic!!
For me, at least, my anger and frustration were at McNerney’s choosing a really stupid “solution” — and not realizing how stupid it is.
ccmask @ 123
that’s bugdust, cc.
Bush Rangers
NZ Expat, now in KS @ 102
I concur; engineers are highly linear people, often have difficultly with non-linear problems. One has to build a linear line of progression for them, give them more data in doing so.
Maybe that’s part of the disconnect, at least where McNerney is concerned. The bulk of the folks trying to change his opinion are doing so in a manner that only confuses linear folks. (Believe me, the engineers in my life would completely shut down if they were confronted with a crowd demanding immediate change but all having slightly different demands; it would overwhelm them).
How do we make a logical, linear case? You can see he’s clinging to the logic of numbers when he’s hanging on to the veto-proof threshold.
Elliott -
You’re a dear for looking. I can across this site: http://www.corpwatch.org/index.php with which Chatterjee is apparently affiliated but haven’t had time to take a close look at it. Think the piece you found might come from there.
ccmask -
You might want to take a look at the site mentioned above as well; apparently deals with holding corporations accountable but, like I said, I know nothing about it.
I’m trying to listen to Greenwald *and* follow the thread…….my multi-tasking skills leave a lot to be desired. *g*
And Greenwald is blasting it outta the park!
Franco @ 108
Well, Glenn Greenwald is just presenting all these facts to the CATO Inst. I really love him.
Jeebus, he’s good. An entirely thorough, point-by-point, inter-related presentation. And he’s working without notes! Just speaking off the top of his head, and it’s perfect. To say that I’m “impressed” would be a great understatement.
Challenging the Generals
Redd @105
The deal is that the state if Israel has become an apartheid state. Sure there is PeaceNow and many progressive Jews. But Israel as it now is not a state we should be supporting. Let’s call a spade a spade and not go for the enemy of my enemy is my friend stuff.
I was born to Jewish parents and I am a devout atheist and have been around Jews of all stripes and virtually all of them have a blind spot as what Israel is as a state.
I will never forget what they did to Rachel Cory. EVER
Mauimom at 126
IMO, you hit the nail squarely on the head.
I would add only that even if the Dems had a veto-proof majority, they’d be afraid to use it.
Afraid to be painted defeatists in the wake of the ensuing turmoil in Iraq and the rest of the ME.
Turmoil which, in my opinion, is necessary to resolve a lot of issues over there.
Just thought I’d comment on the Jerry McNerney confab, as I missed the event, and comments were closed before I could plug in to them. In scrolling down the long and hectic list of comments and McNerney’s cryptic responses (damn, take some typing lessons, man!), the goal of a veto-proof majority in the house came up again and again. This is the goal everyone wants.
But there is a disconnect as to how to get to that bullet-proof majority. McNerney seems to think that the only wayto get there is through consultation and compromise with republican members, hammer out that majority, and then to vote.
In contrast, I believe many in the netroots community view the House voting process itself as part of the process of creating that majority. We would favor, I believe, multiple votes, each resulting in an Iraq bill being sent to the president (or senate), and (presumably) each one being vetoed. We believe that this process would produce a bullet-proof majority faster, more effectively, than the process of back-bench and cloak-room negotiation, often involving favors and deals regarding other legislation, or pork projects, or all the above.
So we want to use the vote (or actually multiple votes) to get to our goal. McNerney–and most other members of both house and senate–apparently think that using votes in this way is a waste of time. I think legislators may also feel that this is a rather bruising process that would destroy what little decorum may be left in the house. And that this would in turn cause general difficulties in passing any future legislation. I think this is the crux of the disagreement–everyone wants a veto-proof majority, but the netroots desire a more aggresive path to getting it. And, in fact, I doubt that a strategy of ‘peeling away’ votes from the republicans over time will work, or will work in the time-frame we are facing.
I personally come down with the netroots on this, voiced clearly by Joe Wilson. But I also see no reason why McNerney’s ‘peeling away and compromising’ strategy could not go forward at the same time that simple majority (i.e. non-veto proof) Iraq bills are being voted out of the house. Why not do both?
SanderO @ 132
Who is THEY?
Ezra Klein has this to say about opinions of American Jews.
Rayne @ 128
I’m linear and proud of it, and here’s how I made a linear case at 110 or 111 above :
Morning all. On my first cup of coffee before going out to piddle in the garden. Do you know about the new channel on XM Radio called POTUS? Starts in September. It is a joint effort of XM and C-Span. It sounds like a radio version of C-Span – no reporters, just the candidates at their various venues. Could shake things up a bit.
In defense of engineers, McNerney’s “close your eyes and make three wishes” plan is not standard thinking for traditional engineering.
Lee Casey! Get some bifocals!
Waccamaw: I’m so glad you pointed out that article. And Elliott is right. $5,000 is bugdust. This article should give Congress the ammunition it needs to end the war. If we don’t get the troops out now, those 190,000 AK-47’s will continue to be used as weapons to kill our soldiers. Due to our supplies ending up in insurgent hands, we feel we must bring them home NOW.
There goes Warner saying Chimpy wants the troops home as much as anyone else!….Yeah right.
Rayne @ 128
ok, gotta jump in here for engineers… i take personally your insulting description of engineers – probably because, although it was a long time ago, my undergrad degree was in engineering and i worked as and with engineers for 10 years before going to grad school and changing fields.
people who excell at linear thinking would have no problem with the comments that were made in the mcnerney thread.
Rayne at 128
I’ve got a degree in electrical engineering (although I’m a lawyer).
What I’ve observed about the better engineers is not linear thinking (they are creative thinkers) but rather a strong belief they’re smarter than just about anyone else.
I thought I detected some of this in McNerney.
It came across to me as condescension. Subtle, not overt.
Christy: I went to the caladium festival yesterday before it rained. I was surprised to see that some woman had made these nice “Cool Wraps”. Cool raps are basically a headband filled with crystals that absorb water. When worn around the neck, it cools the blood flowing to your head and lower’s your body temp. I had just read your morning thread on gardening and heat, so I bought one for you. I’ll drop it in the mail tomorrow.
RevDeb @ 76
Yeah. Is this one of those “gut feelings” ala Chertoff?
Has anyone been able to follow anything that Lee Casey is saying in response to Glenn Greenwald?
Maybe I’ve just been struck drunk.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 113
Thanks Christy. I agree completely with you, and people such as Sam Seder (just to name one outspoken war opponent) who are Jewish but oppose the war get clobbered by the pro-war Jews as well. Sadly there is far more opposition and frank discussion on the US mid-East war that takes place in Isr*el (in print, on the airwaves) – and of course in Europe- than here where everything gets routed through a unitary voice accusing Jews and non-Jews alike of disloyalty or hating Is*ael if they take a different stand.
Gnome de Plume @ 137
I hope Media Matters will be listening in—just in case.
America needs another John Lennon
Power to the People
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gedqNpd_90g
ccmask @ 145
Here’s a pattern for making one at home.
sangemon @ 147
U are not alone. I am not getting what he is saying either.
sangemon @ 147
NO…It looks like HE has a BIG hangover…..
707
sangemon @ 147
Shut him off 5 minutes in.
morning all… coffee is ready.
selise @ 143
loath to get into an argument/discussion on the essential engineer, I do think answering Rayne’s question would help a lot.
my bold
Christy, if you are still around, working with “help” in the kitchen is a study in patience and wisdom. Sometimes we are so busy and focused on getting the thing done, that we don’t allow our little “helpers” to do things that they need to do in order to learn about the art of feeding one another. I still remember my mother allowing me to fry an egg (with her intense supervision)at age five or so. It was so much fun and so rewarding I announced that I was going to be a cook when I grew up. Little did I know that I would be. But as an “amateur” one for family and friends. I still love to cook and most of the time allow visiting kids to “help”.
ccmask @ 145
RevDev got some of them for scarecrow, Kathryn in MA and i last summer for our days of canvassing for ned lamont in the CT heat and humidity. they were great. highly recommened.
Tex Betsy @ 150
We used them last summer in the heat when doing door-to-door for Ned. They are great. Got mine from EMS I think.
Glenn is coming back.
wigwam @ 137
I think the part about the “reasonable Republicans” is an area worth exploring further with him.
There are NO reasonable Republicans — this is a point McNerney has failed to grasp. I can see my own father and father-in-law making the same mistakes in their assumptions about the party to which they believe they belong. They have no clue that they are really used by a racketeering organization, and that the “reasonable Republicans” are those who only appear on the outside not to be be bought and owned by the racket we know as the RNC.
Perhaps if there was a chance for someone McNerney trusted to sit down and explain the real lay of the land, that every single Republican is compromised in some way, and that they will not change their votes, McNerney will see that a different tactic is required. The so-called “reasonable Republicans” might be the ones that constituents and the greater public must pressure so that they feel more compromised in not voting with them than voting with the Republicans.
We are dealing with organized crime; most of the old school Repugs and many old school Dems are suffering from cognitive dissonance about this point. McNerney’s situation is compounded if he is an engineer by background as he’ll want data to support the change he must make in mindset.
Man, we have our work cut out for us…
RevDeb @ 15
Oh I agree, I donated both time & money to John last go around & will be doing the same this go around. We need to change Il 14 blue.
Good Morning
Gizmo update!
The Global Heartlink Project
Franco @ 153
Maybe he was invited to be red meat for Glenn.
ccmask — You are SUCH a sweetie. Thanks so much!
Glenn Greenwald is fucking brilliant.
twolf1 @ 152
Glenwald is just a pedestrian thinker, is what I got, nothing original here, move along.
rootless2 @ 16
Totally agree. I was wondering while it was going on just why did he even come here. He certainly didn’t understand this demographic.
Elliott at 156
You construct a clean argument.
assumptions, clearly and cleanly stated
logic, avoiding logical fallacies
Nothing special.
“The difficulty begins when one uses one’s religious views to form public policy.”
Glenn Greenwald
Anyone seen this in the American press?
Anger over ‘blasphemous’ balls
from BBC News | News Front Page | World Edition
Afghans accuse US troops of insulting Islam after footballs bearing the name of Allah are handed out.
The footballs angered residents in Khost
A demonstration has been held in south- east Afghanistan accusing US troops of insulting Islam after they distributed footballs bearing the name of Allah.
The balls showed the Saudi Arabian flag which features the Koranic declaration of faith.
The US military said the idea had been to give something for Afghan children to enjoy and they did not realise it would cause offence.
The footballs were dropped from a helicopter in Khost province.
Some displayed flags from countries all over the world, including Saudi Arabia, which features the shahada, one of the five pillars of Islam – the declaration of faith.
The balls were intended as a gift to Afghan children
The words, which include the name of Allah, are revered, and Muslims are very sensitive about where and how they can be used.
selise @ 143
Look, I started out in engineering myself (switched to business). I sleep with an engineer. I was born to an engineer. There was no insult. I can tell you based on my experience having engineers up to my hairline for all my life that the engineers in my life would have had a hard time coming on line to have a discussion, let alone make sense of this situation. You may not be representative of the engineering population as a whole by virtue of your ability to deal with an online community.
Think carefully about the complaints so many people made about Jimmy Carter as president.
Yeah.
ok – I’m running a little behind on C-Span, having paused the DVR a couple of times, but I’m *loving* the audience shots while Casey speaks.
talk about getting the stink-eye! I wish the stupid putz would just look up.
Nice lack of applause at the end there too – sounded like at least 2 or 3 people gave him the polite applause normally reserved for the golfer who finally holes out for a triple-bogey.
jayt @ 173
When I listen to Lee Casey the words “effete intellectual snob” comes to mind.
Jonathan @ 144
I’m not going to say it’s impossible that he was being condescending.
But I am going to say that the engineers in my life are some of the most obstinate mules I have ever had the misfortune/fortune to love.
Ever had to produce data to support the decision to have a second Caesarean birth to persuade one that everything would be alright? He wasn’t smarter or condescending, just scared sh*tless and needed the data.
Yeah.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…
Rayne, you said the most important thing @161, that we should pound into the Dems’ heads: There are NO reasonable Republicans. They may talk nice to your face, but like Arlen, they vote where their hearts are. I just cannot figure that out. That kool-aid has long lasting effects. Our job is to get rid of those suckers (slurpers?) Not try to work with them. They have proven time and again that they can’t vote any differently. If Congress can’t override Bush on his position on the children’s healthcare issue, how much clearer will things have to get?
dakine01 @ 28
*blink*
Now that’s one of the more creative pieces of malarky I’ve seen in a long while.
It’s downright EVOL…
anyways…g’morning, all, from a late-rising west coaster!
Marie Roget @ 114
One of these early volunteers asked my husband how things were going for him. My husband, thinking it was an actual question, started to tell him. The volunteer cut in with, “Stop whining.” Lovely.
Gnome de Plume @ 177
Here’s the problem as I see it, for persuading folks like McNerney:
Where’s the data?
You and I and most of the folks in this thread already know deep in our bones that every Republican is compromised. But where’s the data? The RICO organization that is the White House, OVP and RNC have obstructed so many investigations that we cannot show them the data in concrete terms (like numbers of prosecutions, indictments, etc.). So what do we use? I think we have the answers, but we aren’t making a strong enough case.
I have wondered whether the lawyers in the community here shouldn’t be thinking of this in a prosecutorial fashion: if we had to build a case, what would it look like?
McNerney’s way provides aid and comfort to the Republicans. The opportunity to define the Democratic Party as the people’s party is a gift. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth – it might bite you.
Tie all the Republicans to Bush’s Iraq Fiasco and tie them up tight. Offer no olive branches and no opportunity for capitulation for political expedience. Mcnerney’s tactic will come back to bite the Democrats. It is already hurting them.
The public needs to know that there is a difference. Stop the meme that both parties are to blame – both are the same corporate teat suckers. It benefits the Republicans.
Bring the Troops Home Now is a winner with the public.
Tex Betsy @ 151
Betsy, that is exactly it. Of course, my sewing days ended years ago before they even started. I CANNOT thread a needle! My son does my sewing for me. I even staple hems when they fall down. Anyhow, I love buying from women who do their hobby for a living. I felt so bad yesterday when the skies opened up and the rain came down on their stuff. BTW, Tim Mahoney was nowhere to be seen.
Rayne @ 172
Huh? The complaints about Carter seemed to revolve around his abhorrence of violence. The usual complaint about engineers is that they are too blase about violence.
since people missed the cheesecake recipe of montag’s i’ll post it again
montag says:
August 18th, 2007 at 7:46 am
Someone, months ago, during a previous PUAC, said I had to provide my chocolate-orange cheesecake recipe, so, today, that’s my donation. :) It’s there for all of you who have sacrificed for your fellow human beings in other ways.
Now, this is not precise–I don’t subscribe to the Betty Crocker/absolute measurement routine (and besides, that makes it more fun–treading into the unknown, so to speak–but the measurements are close enough).
First, you gotta have a 12-13″ springform pan. Anything else is a pain in the ass to get the cake out of.
Second, there’s calories and fats to be considered, but you don’t want to go overboard on the skimping on calories, here–this is, after all, wretched excess. So, the evil overdoing is four packages of cream cheese. The “I’ll exercise tomorrow” version is three packages of cream cheese and one of neufchatel. Those doing penance for some other venal sins, two of each.
These go into the food processor with about a half-pint of light cream. Just turn the little wizard on and let it fly. Then, slowly add through that silly little hole in the top, about two cups of sifted flour. Not too fast, or it will make a big clump, which will probably go through the plastic mixing bowl and put yer eye out.
Then add the juice from one fresh orange. While the food processor is doing this and overheating and destroying its bearings, take two sticks of butter and melt them in a small saucepan. When that’s just melting, start another burner on low with another small saucepan (or, a double boiler if you’re otherwise distracted) and add about twelve ounces of baker’s chocolate. When the butter in the other pan is just barely liquid, pour half of it into the melting chocolate and stir it up well, and turn the burners off for a bit, because, if you don’t, you’ll get distracted and burn the shit out of everything.
Turn off the food processor, but don’t empty it quite yet.
Get that springform pan. Grab yer box of Oreo cookie crumbs and dump the box in a bowl, with about two or three ounces of brown sugar and mix it up for a few seconds, and then pour the rest of the melted butter into the crumbs. This is the touchy-feely part of the recipe–squish it all up with your fingers until the butter is well-worked into the crumbs and it’s kind of tacky (not the Gilley’s Bar kind of tacky, but, like, sticky).
Get another stick of butter and rub it all around in the springform pan, and then line the pan with the crumb mixture on the bottom and sides. If it falls off, you screwed up and didn’t use enough butter (turn on VCR and insert tape of “Last Tango in Paris” for further butter instructions). Once you’ve achieved Tantric springform ecstasy, put the pan in the fridge and go back to the hot stuff.
Warm up the chocolate and butter, slowly, and while you’re doing that, separate four eggs into yolks and whites. Put the whites in a bowl all by their lonesome and put the yolks in the food processor and turn that sucker on again and let the yolks become Lieberman’s dream–bipartisanly unified–with the rest of the cheese mixture. Drizzle about a half ounce of vanilla into that seething, frothing, making-Hillary-moist mixture. Then, dump in a cup of raw cane sugar… or the domestic variety, if that’s all you got, pour in the melted chocolate and butter and let that food processor consume electricity for a few minutes.
Oh, shit, where was I? Oh, yeah, the Mark Morford part. Get a sort of medium bowl, pour in a pint of whipping cream and dab a little sugar into it and get yer whisk and whip it. I mean whip it. Whip it until it cries and begs for you to stop but never utters the safe word.
Then do the same with the egg whites, adding a little sugar as you go. Now, everyone’s used to machines doing this for them, but hand-whisking is actually a pretty quick process and, besides, it’s good exercise. (In all seriousness, these two steps are the key to having a cheesecake that doesn’t crack and peel in the center like Katherine Harris’ make-up. Whipping both the egg whites and the cream, instead of just dumping them into the mix is the key.)
So, the main mixture in the food processor is almost done, the egg whites and cream are whipped separately, so almost all that’s left is to take the poor, hapless leftover skin of the orange (remember the orange?) and grate the orangey part off into the food processor. Then, get out your bottle of Grand Marnier (if you’re in the high-roller tax bracket) or your Triple Sec bottle (if you’re like the rest of us), and pour in about four ounces of the liqueur of choice into the cheese mixture.
Shut off the food processor, pour the contents into a big bowl, and then, gently, gently, gently, like you were Pickles Bush telling Dubya he’d really fucked up, fold in the egg whites. Once those are in and mixed, pretend you’re Poppy Bush explaining to Junior that Karl, his bestest friend in the whole world, had pretty much screwed him and the pooch (figuratively speaking, not Barney), and very gently fold in the stiff whipped cream.
Get that springform pan out of the refrigerator, pour in the filling and tamp it good (that means sort of desultorily whacking it on a flat surface to get all the air bubbles out of it), cover the pan with aluminum foil and put it into a 400 deg. oven for 20 min., then turn the temp down to 300 deg., and just let it get all hot and bothered for three hours or so.
Once it’s done, let it cool in the fridge for a couple of hours, and then garnish with mandarin orange slices and grated chocolate.
And, don’t eat it all yourself, all at once. You’ll instantly need a new wardrobe. :)
wigwam @ 183
The complaints I have heard repeated frequently were about Carter’s micromanagement and his need for lots of data in order to make decisions, that he was too slow to act because of these traits. Abhorring violence was part of his values system — that which used to be Southern Baptist.
Oh my goodness….montag should have a cooking show. That is so funny.
SanderO @ 52
I caught the Islamic and Christian segment and they were very good. I missed the Jewish segment, but one of my friends TIVO’d it. These Abrahamic religions scare me. Not that people of other religions are so much more peaceful, but they seem less inclined to do violence on behalf of their gods.
The march of technology puts ever more lethal weapons in the hands of ever more folks. So far there is only one religious nut who has his finger on a doomsday button. But it’s not going to stop there.
Another sad part of Katrina is that as we approach another anniversary, Lieberman and Collins is yet to construct a meaningful investigation into the failures of the response to the hurricane.
TexBetsy @ 171
Talk about cultural tin ear!
(There was that big fuss a few years back about the athletic-shoe emblem that looked like a real word in Arabic – the company had to change the design of the thing, because the fuss was so big.)
Boston1775 @ 9
Boston1775 @ 9
ruffian @ 24
They don’t dare get it. If “it” ever gets out, the resultant fury will not spare them either. It’s all hang together or all hang separately time again in Washington, but against the people not for them.
It’s about time you violent femme bloggers got back to posts about domestic issues. More recipes please!
that chocolate cake sounds yummy. and now repeat the recipe for europeans, please …
which weight are these cream cheese packages (and which percentage of fat), and which weight are these buttersticks ? knowing that, i should be able to translate it all to grams and degrees celsius myself …
thanks dmac for reposting montag’s recipe. Truly hilarious, and the cake sounds dangerous.
Spiritcatcher, a stick of butter is 1/4 cup. And a package of cream cheese 8 oz.
[Mod: stick of butter is 1/4 pound, not 1/4 cup]
sangemon @ 29
Well, if they could precisely show where the money has gone and who has it, then THAT would be a story. But, if it just disappears and nobody seems to have it, then is it theft or loss or what? Not much of a story in that case.
Again, once we have a Dem president and Congress we need to do some investigating and demanding some ’splainin’.
[ Note: kinda neat using an apostrophe at both the beginning and end of a slangy kinda word! ]
Boston1775 @ 67
Obviously the power of Executive Orders needs to be curbed by Congressional action. We can’t afford to have ANY president thinking they are above the law because they have an EO at their disposal.
sangemon @ 68
Elect a Dem president and Congress and try to make them TrueBlue with our money. Yep, money is a big part of it, along with the Internet discussion of whom to support and good vetting.
Incidentally, is there any way Progressive Dems, especially Internet activists, can help BlueAmerica candidates with their campaigns, aside from just handing them money?
Rayne @ 128
He needs to know Dubya will NOT EVER bend to any number of Dems in Congress. Ain’t gonna happen. No threshhold.
The only real number we need is ONE: a Dem president to replace Bush.
[ Note: If we could replace him before the ‘08 elections (via impeachment and conviction) with a Repub who would let Dems take us out of Iraq that would be fine, but it’s not very likely. ]
So, we need to elect a Dem who will definitely get us out of Iraq. IMO that’s Edwards, though one of the less popular candidates would do it as well.
We elect a Dem president and we’re on the way.
It’s highly likely we’ll expand our lead in Congress, but to give more speed to getting things done it would help to have a larger Dem majority — especially Progressive Dems.
To achieve that we need to give money to BlueAmerica and ActBlue candidates and then vote for them.
That’s pretty linear. Think it’ll do?
Rayne @ 180
To me it’s pretty simple: they vote to support Bush on EVERYTHING.
Despite their sometimes moderate talk they vote party line, like Communists did. They are all falling down for their caesar. Replace the top guy and the borg collapses.
wigwam @ 183
I think some of us were surprised at the very one-sided treatment he got. By now we’re familiar with it and the “liberal press”. The real problems with Carter were Republican (or more properly, Bush) interference and dirty tricks. They probably made a deal with the Saudis to raise oil prices and push Carter’s economy into the ground. He’d been lowering unemployment and doing well for a couple of years and then boom, high oil prices. Add to that the hostage crisis and how the Repub/Bush team negotiated for Iran to hold them until Carter was gone and you have the basis for a one-term presidency.
Any modern president has to be aware of how the Bush family operates and a lot more people are aware these days.
Carter actually did a lot of good with the help of a Dem Congress. But, the press just wouldn’t give him credit.
SPIRITCATCHER —
BEWARE !!!! Carolyn made a booboo –
A stick of butter is 1/2 cup. What she meant was a stick of butter equals a 1/4 pound (not a 1/4 cup). 4 sticks come in a one-pound box.