(Post inspired by this: "President Bush said Saturday the surge of U.S. troops in Iraq, which he set in motion at the beginning of the year, is showing successes and proves that “conditions on the ground can change.”)
If you think about it, one of the most crucial things we don’t know about this misbegotten Iraqi adventure tells us everything anyone really needs to know about it. We know to a regularly updated certainty how many American soldiers have died: 3723. But we don’t know for sure how many Iraqis have died. As far as documented deaths are concerned, we’re up to at least an appalling 70,604. But everyone admits that is far too low, given the difficulties of accurate documentation in a war zone. The best-known attempt to quantify the “excess mortality” in Iraq — bluntly, the number of dead people who probably would not be dead had the invasion not occurred — is that published in the Lancet. This study concluded:
We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654 965 (392 979–942 636) excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war, which corresponds to 2·5% of the population in the study area. Of post-invasion deaths, 601 027 (426 369–793 663) were due to violence, the most common cause being gunfire.
The Lancet numbers are of course “controversial,” in the sense that they are shocking and therefore our good friends the right-wing-war supporters, with their well-advertised near-fanatical devotion to truth and objectivity, don’t like them and therefore like to pretend that the Lancet study has been “fisked” and “debunked.”
If you’ve not been following the sordid saga of wingnut attacks on the Lancet study, the latest installment is here. For the backstory just go to Tim Lambert’s place and scroll down. And down. And then, yes, down some more, OK, then, head into the archives, and scroll down… Look, it ain’t pretty, and we all owe Tim at least a beer for keeping an eye on this madness. The upshot is, there’s no serious reason to doubt the Lancet’s estimation.
(Incidentally, I am setting up a Devastating Point. Please bear with me a moment.)
Now — and this is getting to the good bit, trust me — one of the consistent refrains in the anti-Lancet Wingnut Chorus is that the study’s authors refuse to “release the raw data” the report is based on:
In any event, the Lancet authors refuse to release their figures. Now folks, this isn’t like KFC protecting its secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices. Releasing the data would make everything transparent and settle this once and for all, which is exactly why the Lancet and the authors keep it under armed guard on a remote desert island.
Just read Tim on this bit of deceptive crappola for why it’s irrelevant. But bear in kind this: the wingnut insistence upon SEEING THE RAW DATA. Oh, it’s very thrilling, to claim your Mortal Enemies are Hiding the True Facts by Using Statistical Shenanigans!
I myself am willing to even concede this. To a point. Let me spell out the point. Here indeed I have a suggestion, a modest proposal, if you will: If you are trying to make political hay out of statistics about how many people in Iraq are dead, you have an ABSOLUTE ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY to fully and openly provide the sources of your data and open them up to independent review.
(If you’ve guessed where this was headed, give yourself a popsicle, because it means you pay attention to the news.)
And with that in mind, I give you... this.
O’Hanlon’s piece in the Wapo today points to a significant reduction in sectarian violence. But as Matt points out the U.S. military won’t actually verify those numbers or show any proof.In fact getting access to any kind of civilian casualty number has grown much more difficult in the past year. The most reliable source for civilian casualty estimates, the UN, has not been allowed access to the data since the start of 2007. The Iraqi government was mad because it thought the UN’s numbers were too high so it stopped sharing the data.
There are also numerous reports of underreporting of civilian casualties inside Iraq.
Even more damning is the fact that just last August the military and the Bush Administration specifically underreported civilian deaths in an attempt to tout the success of the original Baghdad security operation. An accusation that was confirmed by the Iraq Study Group.
A drop in civilian casualties would be great news. I just wish someone who doesn’t have a vested interest in reporting that news could actually verify those numbers.
Will the wingnut-o-sphere demand a sound accounting from the Bush administration about its “Surge” numbers? After all, this should be a matter of a strict count, nothing to do with algorithms or datasets. My bet is they won’t… takers?
Which gets us back to where we started. All you need to know about this war is that the Bush administration and its sycophants care, or even know, about the number of dead Iraqis only in terms of its own political gains and losses.
And what else do you really need to know about this horrible, immoral mess?
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1
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Steve-AR @ 1
nice!
4?
OK, going to read it, BRB
Nice, Thers…!!!
boing -inward two-and-a-half somersaults, tuck position, no splash
g’evening everyone
Superior post. Ugly facts, but superior presentation.
Shorter Repugs: “As long as our team wins, we’ll play the game.”
6th?
This is sadly another classic example of the hypocracy that is the GOP. The worst part is they never see it and the MSM won’t report it.
Suzanne @ 7
good evening, suzanne. your dive looks especially lovely in the eclipse-light.
did anyone let downstairs know?
Suzanne @ 12
Yes, Suzanne…they were POKED!
Just absolutely sickening.
Hi Suzanne, hope your feeling better.
I’m guessing the decision “not to do” body count stuff emanated directly from the feverish minds of Deadeye and Rum-Dummy.
I can just hear those 2 simultaneously whispering, each in one of Junya’s ears:
“We better not count no bodies, ’cause that’s just how losing the Vietnam war started, doncha know? Another brewski Junya?”
Suzanne @ 7
Another graceful dive, Ma Cheri, by the way you don’t happen to look at prior threads do ya? *g*
I believe the study from Johns Hopkins and MIT used conservative epidemiological methods that anyone who thinks the Earth is older than 6,000 years accepts. A large percentage of the families had death certificates.
It is worthless to argue with this scum; the path to salvation is to defeat as many Republicans as possible. Obama saying Tom Coburn is a friend and he could work with him; Jeebus!!
Warning Suzanne, you prolly saw it already,
cause you’re a smartie, but see #179 below.
We were getting naughty down there.
A supporting viewpoint from Matthew Yglesias:
How long will the Iraqis hate us? I would sure hate any people who came in and did something similar to my country. Forever.
Suzanne @ 12
Actually, the rollin’ wheel has pretty well eliminated the need for this task at the Lake. *g*
I simply cannot fathom how we have come to this place in our history. What has happened to our nation? And how did we allow it to get this bad?
CTuttle @ 17
(poking head out from backstage curtain) I am the all knowing, all seeing, powerful mod, CT - and you know I know so go ahead and confess to everyone else (grin).
I was watching the Clint Eastwood movie Iwo Jima today and I was wondering if that was a first for a very large battle where no civilians died?
Redshift @ 20
Well, yeah. Cause if they had facts to back up these claims they would be trumpeting them from the rooftops. That they don’t, speaks volumes.
Perhaps they’ll release the raw data from the Florida vote in 2000. I applaud this new Republican desire for openness and transparency in poll numbers.
demi @ 19
Must be the Redwoods. (hi honey)
demi @ 19
I can’t believe ya’ll didn’ mention freshly squeezed lemons.
Thanks, Thers. A really important topic. Unbelievable that our country could do this…
What will the dems do in September? It’s got to stop.
sangemon @ 23
We allowed our leaders to rape third world nations for fun and profit for many decades, and now they think it’s ok to do it to us with impunity.
Pretty simple, really.
“And what else do you really need to know about this horrible, immoral mess?”
I think it is helpful to add this: that the surge has failed on Cheney and Bush’s own terms. The surge was to provide breathing room to allow political reconciliation. If the surge provided just enough breathing room for that, and there was any sign of it happening, then the surge would be a success. If the surge suddenly works miracle wonders in the next couple of months and there is no political progress, then it is a failure.
The administration and its apologists are trying to sell the surge on a basis that explicitly contradicts its original premise. I think that needs to be repeated over and over again for as long as it takes.
I am not flacking for Dodd, but he had the model statement:
“Despite the exemplary performance of our troops, we are coming off the bloodiest summer of this misguided war and it should be clear that there can be no military solution in Iraq.
“It is useless to argue the merits of a specific tactic when the strategy itself is failed.
“In fact, debating over military tactics when there is no military solution only undermines efforts by those of us who believe that we must change course in Iraq now and begin to immediately redeploy US combat forces so that Iraqi leaders will have the impetus to find a political accord.”
http://chrisdodd.com/node/2173
Which gets us back to where we started. All you need to know about this war is that the Bush administration and its sycophants care, or even know, about the number of dead Iraqis only in terms of its own political gains and losses.
They are an equal opportunity offender - they don’t give a rat’s ass for the dead and injured Americans either, unless they can use it for a photo op background.
Thanks for the kind words, folks.
Suzanne @ 29
we were getting aROUND to it.
The surge is working..
BAGHDAD — This year’s U.S. troop buildup has succeeded in bringing violence in Baghdad down from peak levels, but the death toll from sectarian attacks around the country is running nearly double the pace from a year ago.
link
How many have died in Afghanistan?
demi @ 19
thanks heavens those naughty folks didn’t follow us up here, huh?
Oh.
Never mind.
Suzanne @ 24
Wait, Demi has all the incriminating evidence…!!! Pics, fingerprints on glasses, etc… *g*
Steve-AR @ 36
It’s Whack-A-Mole
cleter @ 27
Hell, they just released Karl Rove’s daddy’s raw p*cker, cut em a little slack.
The Rove frenum ladder was the most encouraging news I’ve seen in days. Obama wants to work with his friend Tom Coburn? What are they gonna do? Pick out burquas?
Thanks Suzanne..I did the link thing and it worked!!!
The website for New Bridge Strategies has been saved at TPM.
How to get rich after a war…
EPU’d from downstairs:
Redshift @ 176
Excellent! I recommend this link for every aware political junkie, as well as anyone who cares about the wingnut’s ability to hijack important words.
Bob in HI
oh CTuttle, my birthday’s tommorrow :P ahd Happy B-day to you too, for monday.
A couple of evil Virgos aren’t we? ^_~
Steve-AR @ 42
woohoo!
Astral Technician @ 31
That’s right. That’s how we got here.
Hey, peanutbutter — you in da house?
Wanted to follow up with you on your comment on the Dan Maffei thread earlier today about what to do here in OC.
I live in Royce’s district. That seat is his for as long as he wants to keep it, unless he is (warning: old political cliche upcoming) found in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.
I want to believe that Rohrbacher is vulnerable, but in my heart of hearts I don’t believe it.
Can we really do anything more than play defense for Loretta and send our money where it can have an impact?
bobschacht @ 44
Did my comment finally appear on your blog, Bob?
my disclaimer about the mars thing was epu’d-
elliot at 190——-and astral…….
oooooooops…..the mars thing………..i didn’t follow it up, cuz it came from a professor i know………..
and i thought it was weird that jack horkheimer didn’t mention it on his show this week……shoulda known something was up when he didn’t mention it…….
=============
elliot had a great link at 190 in the last thread…..
i didn’t follow it up because this person is usually right-on, and didn’t stop to think about the impossibility of it……sorry…….oh well.
aliasofwestgate @ 45
Happy birthday alias.
aliasofwestgate @ 45
Positively…!!! ;-)
ccmask @ 25
From about 1750 through WW I, civilian casualties were kept to around 10%. WW II was around 50%. We’re now surpassing even Viking invasions. Odin is pleased, but really, it’s just not fun like it used to be. Sigh. Call me a luddite. [/irony alert]
I just have to drop this here.
Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said in his daily radio commentary, which will air Friday, that evangelicals have the right approach. They want to improve churches, marriages and families, said Perkins.
“Last on their list is the environment,” he added. “So much for the global warming hype. Despite what the media may want to project upon evangelicals, they understand that if we, as a nation, get the spiritual issues right and build strong marriages and families, most of the other problems will be solved in the process.”
snip
Imagine? And these people are building churches all over the place and they will probably be polling places.
GordonM @ 53
You’re a Luddite.
Just a quick back to politics thing, I was thinking about DiFi’s response to my Impeach Now message to her and her response that it would only be divisive for the country…
What? like, maybe the Civil War?
Oh, like that?
We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654 965 …..
Is that 654,965?
ccmask @ 54
How a Christian can be anything but a committed environmentalist is a mystery. We are stewards of God’s creation, with a duty to preserve it for those who will follow us.
Bob Schacht - I left an answer and a question for you at the bottom of the “Useful Idiots” thread. Thanks
GordonM @ 53
I’ve not seen the movie yet, did they mention the mass suicide off Mt Kiribachi by many women and children…???
demi @ 56
Exactly. The GOP is still benefitting from the dog and pony show they put on with Clinton. It created such a bad taste for so many that now, when we have a situation crying out for impeachment, those in charge are too afraid to do it.
Here’s a Sherffius ‘toon (8-24) somewhat appropriate to the topic:
http://cagle.msnbc.com/politic.....rffius.asp
demi @ 56
I feel that in many ways, we are in a civil war here - just no one has fired a shot. King George 43 and his cohort vs the rest of America in a struggle for the direction the path of our future as a nation will take.
CTuttle @ 60
No, they didn’t.
Tony Perkins is taking that whole Psycho thing way too seriously.
ccmask @ 54
The amount of “fundie” church and infra-structure building around the country is amazing. All done with un-audited “Faith Based” tax dollars. We have got to shut off those tax dollars after 01/20/09. If we do that, the xtian’s will implode from their own greed.
burnspbesq @ 58
“Last on their list is the environment,” he added. “So much for the global warming hype. Despite what the media may want to project upon evangelicals, they understand that if we, as a nation, get the spiritual issues right and build strong marriages and families, most of the other problems will be solved in the process.”
Yes, if we get all moral, God and Gaia will quit putting their “natural disasters” on us.
Totally makes sense.
CTuttle @ 49
Not yet. :-(
Bob in HI
I find it a little strange and creepy that 70,000 Iraqi’s can be justifiable, but a number like Lancets is considered way out of league.
madmommy @ 61
Question for you, madmommy.
Do folks in Louisiana believe, to any significant extent, that a major factor in the slow pace of reconstruction is that most of the people who were displaced were more likely to be Democratic voters? Put another way, do we believe that KKKarl slowed down the reconstruction in order to turn Louisiana into a reliably red state?
dmac @ 50
hey dmac, the entire liberal blogosphere was rolled by that fake ‘reagan diary” thing. don’t beat yourself up about it. this is the lake. you’re among (slightly raunchy) friends.
From wiki: Under the category Aftermath:
Because all the civilians had been evacuated, there were no civilian casualties at Iwo Jima, unlike at Saipan and Okinawa.[5]
dmac, was it you who wrote about your parents in Germany earlier today?
madmommy @ 61
What the hell are they afraid of (pinot talking). They are letting the Executive Branch take away their authority. What the F?
ccmask @ 54
Makes perfect sense. A strong family unit, with a mom and children and a strong daddy type like Ted Haggert, Jimmy Swaggart, Ralph Reed, or Jim Bakker could easily heal the environment thru prayer, hookers and graft.
burnspbesq @ 58
Boosh said Saturday that conditions in his skull have atrophied, in his dreams, Boosh, the sands of Iraq are going to swallow you and the excess mortals will haunt your ***, Republicans and data and statistics, haha! The wingnuts will take another crap for Boosh, and the Loyal Bushies are indeed an immoral mess…they’re a bunch of clowns playing trumpets, while our national farce is brought to you by the cynical bastards at six teen hund red
ccmask @ 64
Mt. Suribachi was where they raised the infamous flag, however, on the other side of the isle…!!!
Again, I think they are building churches for the polling stations to get better control of the votes.
CTuttle @ 60
IIRC that was Saipan, in the Northern Marianas. I was alive but not sentient so the memory is from books.
It has always gobsmacked me how easily the Bush administration convinced otherwise thinking individuals to not take the Lancet study seriously. I heard an interview on NPR a few years ago with one of the guys who was doing that study. He and the others risked their lives repeatedly to get that information. The poster above who said most of them had death certificates is telling the truth. The stories behind those numbers were just heartwrenching. That was in the days before NPR was taken over by the fascist overlords. Sigh.
bobschacht @ 69
Shall I repost?
CTuttle @ 79
Actually, the first infamous flag was taken as a souvenir by a military officer.
Suzanne @ 63
Yes. Just, yes. What can we do? Talk to our Reps? Been there done that. Go walk around with signs? Done that.
I’d just rather go camping. Sounds defeatest, but, remember…the grigrio.
:)
a strong daddy type like Ted Haggert, Jimmy Swaggart, Ralph Reed, or Jim Bakker could easily heal the environment thru prayer, hookers and graft.
okay, how’s that work when they’re praying *for* hookers and graft?
The amount of “fundie” church and infra-structure building around the country is amazing. All done with un-audited “Faith Based” tax dollars. We have got to shut off those tax dollars after 01/20/09. If we do that, the xtian’s will implode from their own greed.
I DO NOT understand how this has come to be. Bill of Rights, anyone?
ccmask @ 80
(sweet little old lady voice)
Now dearie, I see you’ve voted democratic. Now you know that means you’ll go to hell, don’t you? I don’t want you to burn in eternal damnation, so let’s just change that to a straight republican ticket, shall we? Boys, help this nice man to his car.
(gruff manly man 19 year old Xtian Jock Voice)
Come with us sir. Thank you for doing the right thing.
The Bind Moggles…
Steve-AR @ 81
No, Mt. Kiribachi is on Iwo Jima
Are American journalists allowed to take local pictures inside Iraq? When these pictures start coming in, Bush will finally be in the hottest waters yet. That’s why he doesn’t want to leave.
ccmask @ 84
I wouldn’t doubt it…!!!
And we also have this:
THE DETENTION OF AP PHOTOGRAPHER BILAL HUSSEIN
The U.S. military in Iraq has imprisoned Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein since April 12, 2006, accusing him of being a security threat but never filing charges or permitting a public hearing. “We want the rule of law to prevail,” says AP President and CEO Tom Curley. “He either needs to be charged or released. Indefinite detention is not acceptable.” Military officials say that Hussein was being held for “imperative reasons of security” under United Nations resolutions. A Pentagon spokesman reiterated that stance Sept. 18. Hussein is a 35-year-old Iraqi citizen and a native of Fallujah. AP executives said an internal review of his work did not find anything to indicate inappropriate contact with insurgents, and any evidence against him should be brought to the Iraqi criminal justice system. Hussein began working for the AP in September 2004. He photographed events in Fallujah and Ramadi until he was detained.
Bilal Hussein is one of an estimated 14,000 people detained by the U.S. military worldwide — 13,000 of them in Iraq. They are held in limbo where few are ever charged with a specific crime or given a chance before any court or tribunal to argue for their freedom. In Hussein’s case, Curley and other AP executives say, the military has not provided any concrete evidence to back up the vague allegations they have raised about him. More information is contained in the news stories and press materials below.
http://www.ap.org/bilalhussein/
Thers, great post. Let’s make the Pentagon spill their data. Clearly the wingnutosphere likes data now. So they should ask their Pentagon buddies to spill it. Maybe BetrayUS will tell Huge Hewitt next time he appears on his wee programme.
ccmask @ 90
They can take pictures - getting them published in American media, however, is a whole nudder thing.
burnspbesq @ 71
It’s hard to say, and it depends on who you ask that question to and where they live. Personally, I don’t think it is a coincidence, and as an added benefit there is all this empty real estate that is just waiting to be developed into luxury condos. There is so much blame here that it can be spread around pretty thick. I had posted some stuff about the upcomming gubernatorial race in the previous thread, and as things stand now, Bobby Jindal is almost a lock. He got beat last time by Blanco, and talk was that there was no way people were going to vote for a foreign looking guy with a wierd name when someone named Babineaux was running against him. Jindal, of course, is a total GWB lapdog. Not that it has made one iota of difference in the pace of recovery or the speed in which Bush has made good on the promises he made in his lovely and well-lit Jackson Square speech post-K.
When the magical mystery tour of The Surge was announced, Dear Leader said it would be for three months, then all would be well and all would be well in this best of all possible worlds.
Or am I completely misremembering the time frame that was presented then? Seems the MSM has.
Snarkassandrazed!
Hi y’all!!!!!!1
burnspbesq @ 71
See Greg Palast’s current article here
Suz -I’m not name dropping, it’s just that, What He Said. :)
hey snark
demi, i was teasing ya when i said that - really…
Suzanne @ 94
Of course that’s what I meant :)) Not like the old Vietnam days. Every night we saw coffins and had head counts. And why MSNBC on a Friday night has 2 hours of stories from inside American prisons instead of Iraq war coverage, I’ll never know. Imagine having hours of airtime and blowing it on this crap?
sunshine @ 92
These people need to study up on what happened to the Duke of Chin (for whom China was named, from the Three Kingdoms era…or was it warring states…its the club soda talking here people…)
Bottom line: he had the best army in china and he kept his people in abject terror, until one day he terrorised them a skoshe too far. then all ten million of them (more or less) grabbed their farm implements and earth moving tools and lots and lots of torches and came for his ass.
You can still see the ruined palace today, IIRC. They did a serious number on his atrocitying little tush. Chimpy and co should really start thinking about this.
CTuttle @ 89
Poorly phrased on my part..The mass suicides were on Saipan..women and children jumping off a cliff to the sea.
I had an uncle who was in the first assault wave onto the Iwo Jima beaches, he survived but was “never right” after that.
Journalists are fair game in Iraq. Our troops have killed more than a few. They fired on an an Al Jazeera news building in Iraq. It was an accident, though. /s
demi @ 75
I wrack my brain daily trying to figure out the answer to that question. Maybe the bushies have dirt on every member of Congress and aren’t afraid to use it? Because the alternative is just that they are a big ole pile of spineless wussies who are more worried about what the GOP will say about them than in doing the right thing.
Suzanne @ 94
All it takes is an andersen cooper. remember how we were gonna ignore all that nawlins stuff? AC didn’t and somebody at CNN was so disgusted they ran with it. Sic Transit Gloria Chimpy.
It will happen again. It may be happening now.
O/t, at Salon Joan Walsh informs that ABC News has posted on its website a statement to the effect that Philip Zelikow (former advisor to Rice) did not disclose that he is an employee of a lobbying firm hired by Allawi when speaking (negatively) about Maliki on ABC news. But so far, apparently, have not actually said anything about this on the news program on which he appeared. If you want to encourage ABC to come clean more fully–and that this is one of the problems with journalism as we know it–you can post comments on.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thewo.....from-.html
August 25th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654 965 …..
Is that 654,965?
Yes
Hey, Cassie.
Constant Reader @ 96
Just another example of how much our democratic-led congress are dupes. And the morons are getting heat from the left and the right and everyone against the war. Seems like the only things they listen to right about now is MONEY.
Hi everyone. I want to bring up something that has to do with “framing” - and we all
pretty much do not heed.
There’s sooo much about the Iraq War and we use that term so loosely. That term is wrong!
It is up to Congress to declar war. What happened in Iraq was an illegal invasion.
What’s going on now is an illegal occupation that has brought about a civil war.
Why do we use their term of Iraq War when illegal invasion and illegal occupation are more precise?
And why are we funding activities that are contrary to our Constitution and illegal under Intl. Law?
I mentioned this at a town hall meeting with John Hall (D-NY) and he seemed to agree. A
short time later he used the words Iraq War. Arrrggghhh.
It’s a very potent talking point to use in discussions with those on the other side.
sunshine @ 92
The DoD whistleblowers are amongst the 13,000…!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 87
Their interpretation of the Establishment clause is that tax money doled out to churches doesn’t establish a state religion.
In the U.S., the report said journalists and bloggers’ “freedom of expression” is at risk. It called for laws requiring that telecommunications companies treat Internet broadband content alike and move the information at the same network speed — whether the content is on a small, independent blog, or Web log, or well-heeled Web site.
Legislation to do that was rejected by the Senate last June, but backers are hopeful that the new Democratic-controlled Congress will change course.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, meanwhile, has said that Congress should require Internet providers to preserve customer records as a way to assist prosecutors’ investigations into child pornography and possibly terrorism.
“It has become vital to examine new technology from a moral standpoint and understand the secondary effects of it,” the report said. “If firms and democratic countries continue to duck the issue … we shall soon be in a world where all our communications are spied on.”
Iraq was the most deadly country for journalists last year, with 39 reporters and 26 other media workers killed. Among them were
two Americans — Paul Douglas of CBS and his soundman James Brolan, while the rest were Iraqis.
At least 30 journalists were arrested by Iraqi security forces during 2006. The U.S. Army arrested eight media workers, including AP photographer Bilal Hussein, who was taken into custody last April and has yet to be charged.
http://www.ap.org/FOI/foi_022007b.html
ccmask - don’t forget the distraction provided by the coverage of missing white women or astronauts in diapers.
infotainment is not news.
boosh learned one thing from the vietnam war - don’t let it be shown as it really is on the 6 o’clock news.
Hehindeed, especially as it was reported today that the Pentagon is starting its own new media operation.
Seriously…
burnspbesq @ 108
howinhell did i miss cassie! hey girl!
dayam club soda…makes you tell your right name…
Suzanne @ 94
althespook @ 116
hiya and howdy!
ccmask @ 90
watch this
SnarKassandra @ 97
Hey, Gator, you’re back…!!!
I hate this goddam fucking war! Great essay, thers
Can’t stay for long. Getting ready to fly to SE Alaska tomorrow morning to play in three concerts in Sitka, Juneau and Haines. The Juneau paper wrote a decent article Thursday about Shards II, a work I’ve written to commemorate our 4,000th military death in Iraq. I know it hasn’t happened yet, but it will, so I’m going to keep playing the piece until sometime in October, when that occurs.
Thers @ 115
the War War Room. Not making that up. To be overseen by the War War Room Czar Czar, a man named Gabor.
Making that up, but only just…
ccmask @ 100
That is what I told my GF last night. In an age when news film had to be sent to Japan from Vietnam for processing and then to the US, we had war coverage every night. Our present fascist government learned that lesson and has block the coverage from the American public.
cancer_cures @ 70
Evenin’ everyone…
Yeah, CC, my reaction to Thers post is: OK, let’s divide the 70,000 by 2. Let’s grossly underestimate the Iraqi number even more. I mean we can’t have killed 35,000 exclusive members of Iraqi al-qaeda only. duh.
That’s a lot of iraqi blood on our hands.
If bush/cheney have to advertise their f’ing war, what the hell is wrong with this picture?
parsley @ 106
Television news today is just one big fat infomercial for the Republican party, the party of death.
Thers @ 115
From the bowels of the Pentagon…
Ed*ard Teller @ 121
Give em hell for us, ET. With you in spirit…
hey ET - have they named anything new this week for soon to be indicted and convicted felon Stevens?
spookyal at 72 says-”hey dmac, the entire liberal blogosphere was rolled by that fake ‘reagan diary” thing. don’t beat yourself up about it. this is the lake. you’re among (slightly raunchy) friends.”
thanks, oh, i’m not……..it’s just that i ALWAYS verify something before i pass it on, but didn’t this time………because of who sent it to me……..that’ll ‘learn’ me………
and happy birthday to the virgo pups!
it reminded me that an old boyfriend’s birthday is right about now…….we’re in touch, as friends…….first time i’ve ever done that, usually it’s cut the cord all the way……..
he’s a lot younger than me…….couldn’t work out…..he’s the same age now as i was when we dated……..weird.
so, you all reminded me of it, so emailed him a happy birthday note.
althespook @ 105
What ever happened to Richard Engel? Is he still in Iraq, or did he finally bail?
bmaz @ 59
Got it! I left you an answer downstairs for the personal part, but you also wrote about the Appeals Court Battle Over NSA Surveillance, which was an Aug 9 announcement of an August 15 hearing. That’s a good preview, but anyone know what happened?
Bob in HI
madmommy @ 104
Yes, those old bored millioninares…what?
Okay, the system is what it is. There are some who actually seem to care. Let’s all vote for them. I just don’t know what else to do.
TeddySanFran @ 112
Hold up a sec. What “tax money” is “doled out” to churches to fund construction? I’d like to get some of that for my church (St. Joseph’s in Santa Ana), which needs about $1 million for deferred maintenance and seismic retrofitting.
I’m more inclined to think that what’s happening is that fundies are incredibly generous in donating to their churches when it comes time to move out of that storefront or rented light-industrial building into a ridiculous palace like Saddleback Church. That money is deductible for the donor and not income to the church, so long as the IRS hasn’t caught up to the church and revoked its 501(c)(3) status for engaging in prohibited political activity.
Steve-AR @ 102
Saipan was the most notorious of the bunch, yet, numerous spouses and children launched themselves off Suicide Cliff on the slopes of Kiribachi!!!
ccmask @ 100
Yeah, what is the deal with all this “Locked Up” crap. Let’s have some news. I just have to turn off the tee vee altogether.
Suzanne @ 128
Heh, Father or Son, or both…!!!
loohoo at 74 says-”dmac, was it you who wrote about your parents in Germany earlier today?”
nope, maybe ls, but my information antennae aren’t too accurate today……ha…….
You are so right, we should call it what is truly is as you have pointed out.
“illegal invasion and illegal occupation are more precise?”
Pat9 @ 110
demi @ 132
I would love to vote for a progressive. What I get instead, for governor: Bobby Jindal (yack!), Walter Boasso, who was a Rep until a few weeks ago, John Georges, who can’t decide if he is running as a Dem, Rep or I. Our senators-David Vitter (hurl) and Mary Landrieu. My congress critter……diaper boy himself David Vitter. It is enough to make one want to write in Mickey Mouse.
Incidentally, the picture is Cromwell attacking Drogheda.
I’m still rather angry about that, by the way.
parsley @ 106
done, thanks for the tip
TeddySanFran @ 112
As with the Republican Party, the fundie’s can be destroyed by their greed. Audits and the rule of law would send thousands to prison and bankrupt the mega-churches. However with Obama saying that Tom Coburn is his good friend, I am not optimistic.
burnspbesq @ 71
Of course.
Bob in HI
Thers @ 140
Wasn’t president bartlett still peeved at the Norwegians over something even further back? So you’re in good company at least.
Jouralists… and whistle blowers: this is weird and distrubing story, from TPM
***********
One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to rebuild Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted. Or worse.
Link to MSNBC story:
Iraq corruption whistleblowers face penalties
Cases show fraud exposers have been vilified, fired, or detained for weeks
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430153/
********************************************
For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance says he was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods.
There were times, huddled on the floor in solitary confinement with that head-banging music blaring dawn to dusk and interrogators yelling the same questions over and over, that Vance began to wish he had just kept his mouth shut.
He had thought he was doing a good and noble thing when he started telling the FBI about the guns and the land mines and the rocket-launchers — all of them being sold for cash, no receipts necessary, he said. He told a federal agent the buyers were Iraqi insurgents, American soldiers, State Department workers, and Iraqi embassy and ministry employees.
The seller, he claimed, was the Iraqi-owned company he worked for, Shield Group Security Co. “It was a Wal-Mart for guns,” he says. “It was all illegal and everyone knew it.”
So Vance says he blew the whistle, supplying photos and documents and other intelligence to an FBI agent in his hometown of Chicago because he didn’t know whom to trust in Iraq.
For his trouble, he says, he got 97 days in Camp Cropper, an American military prison outside Baghdad that once held Saddam Hussein, and he was classified a security detainee.
***************************************************
…whistleblowers are offered an avenue under the federal False Claims Act to file what’s called a “qui tam” lawsuit, which allows private citizens to sue on the government’s behalf. (The policy was developed under Lincoln to help root out corrupt contractors selling defective products to the Union Army.)
The Justice Department has the option of signing onto these lawsuits, 12 of which have been filed dealing with alleged Iraq reconstruction abuse since 2004. To date, how many qui tam suits have the Bush administration endorsed? Zero.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/051579.php
Thers @ 140
If the picture was about Iraq, boosh would not have allowed it to be painted, and if painted, shown.
Suzanne @ 128
Only the Ted Stevens Marine Research Institute in Juneau, for all I know. That was dedicated Tuesday. I’m going to go out there this next weekend and see if the title signs have been put on with temporary hardware…
bobschacht @ 143
you don’t suppose that’s why they won’t do anything about global warming? it would wipe out the blue coasts almost completely…nah, takes too long…
Thers @ 115
“I wouldn’t characterize it as a war room. It’s far less sinister than that. It’s more like a library.” — Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell
wesgpc @ 145
was posted by moi on last thread. horrible stuff. yet notice it came from Forbes, and is part of a currently ongoing lawsuit. this is significant, as several posters noted.
Ed*ard Teller @ 147
Wasn’t it Mitch who was thinking of modifying one (or more) of those named for senator for life stevens places?
CTuttle @ 83
Please do.
Bob in HI
althespook @ 148
I believe Louisiana went for Bush both times. It is actually a red state with a blob of blue in NOLA. Or, at least it used to be.
althespook @ 148
I absolutely suppose that. Do you think it’s a coincidence that the only tax you’ve never heard Grover Norquist bitch about is the AMT, which falls very disproportionately on people who live in blue states?
Everything is connected to everything else. No detail is too small.
[And that’s as close as you’ll ever get to seeing me in a tinfoil hat.]
bobschacht @ 131
I did ask Bmaz about that very same case, I’m positive the Guv’mint will be severely pissed with the ruling, none of the judges were impressed with the pixie dust being tossed in their eyes, IIRC, one judge asked about ‘Alice in Wonderland’ Q’s…
TeddySanFran @ 149
I wouldn’t call it a library - I would call it Pravda on the Potomic.
Fun Fact:
The Final Five
John William Warner (born Feb. 18, 1927) is an American politician who served as secretary of the Navy from 1972 to 1974 and has served as the Republican senior U.S. senator from Virginia since his appointment on Jan. 2, 1979. He is one of five World War II veterans left in the United States Senate. The others are Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii), Ted Stevens (R-Ark.) and Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.).
burnspbesq @ 133
Sorry wrong denomination for free money. In my experience, it is unusual to see new construction with Roman Catholic or main line Protestant names on the church. Since the billions of faith based dollars are not audited, I don’t know have the money is diverted. But when I see large new churches and associated family life centers in poor rural areas, I think something is fishy.
Suzanne @ 156
Ding! ravings post title. thankee thankee.
bobschacht @ 143
Yes. MS has received 3X the aid that LA has. And LA had two hurricanes.
The republicans hate us for our freedoms.
ccmask @ 157
soon to be the Final Four (Stevens) IMHO…
bobschacht @ 131
As to the 9th Circuit, jeez you never know how quick, or how slow, they will issue an opinion. I don’t think I would expect it anytime much before mid-September or so. My guess is that before publicly issuing the decision, it will be submitted to the Government for review as to potential redaction motions on, yep, you guessed it, national security grounds. Assuming that is true, and it makes sense, that will slow the release of the decision down more than the usual. No clue really, thats the best I got. Thanks for the info; it confirms my thoughts so far.
burnspbesq @ 154
It does look good on you…sparkly…
marymccurnin @ 160
Well yeah, but MS has Trent Lott and Haley Barbour. We have Kathleen Blanco and Ray Nagin. Nuff said.
Thers @ 140
Jeez, and I thought us Scots were good at carrying grudges.
burnspbesq @ 58
Once upon a time, I did a course in Psychology of Religion. I remember studies about whether Fundies were into recycling or whether they regarded it as something that might hinder the Second Coming. I reviewed about a dozen studies. Surprisingly, most found that Fundies recycled at about the same rate as the general population. Those studies are probably 15 years old now so maybe attitudes have changed.
madmommy @ 164
Had to fix all those c*s*nos quickly to get the $$$ - and to stir up the base about shutting down the c*s*no. All that sinful g*mblin yanno
Suzanne @ 167
But did they re build the towns and the houses?
Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D) tours Iraq but skips the kool-aid:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
AK -
Many threads ago, “the comment was made” that if the constitution goes down for the final count, so will those responsible for same. Hope that is a great deal of truth lurking out there.
Wrt to the whistle blower article you ref’d, a large portion of it showed up today front page below the fold in the paper from the nearest city. A little sunlight for the “huddled masses”.
burnspbesq @ 133
Here’s where the money train starts.
About 2 billion dollars a year to faith-based initiatives. From the federal government.
bobschacht @ 152
Post the link again, I’m sorry I didn’t bookmark it…
Suzanne @ 167
I was in Biloxi the weekend the first cas*no opened (middle weekend of a two-week IRS training course at Keesler AFB). Now THAT was a feeding frenzy.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
SnarKassandra @ 168
Not so much. Both my parents grew up on the coast, my mom goes to her reunion every couple of years. She was just there this summer and told me that though the cas*nos are up and rocking, there are still alot of neighborhoods that don’t look much different than right after the storm. MS took a major hit from Katrina for sure, but the difference between them and NOLA is that the surge came in and went right back out. In NOLA the levees broke the day after Katrina, and the city stewed in a lake of fetid funk for weeks.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
From Limbaugh: Why he Dems want out of Iraq:
LIMBAUGH: Yeah. This is — you’re not going to believe this, but it’s very simple. And the sooner you believe it, and the sooner you let this truth permeate the boundaries you have that tell you this is just simply not possible, the better you will understand Democrats in everything. You are right. They want to get us out of Iraq, but they can’t wait to get us into Darfur.
CALLER: Right.
LIMBAUGH: There are two reasons. What color is the skin of the people in Darfur?
CALLER: Uh, yeah.
LIMBAUGH: It’s black. And who do the Democrats really need to keep voting for them? If they lose a significant percentage of this voting bloc, they’re in trouble.
CALLER: Yes. Yes. The black population.
link
Waccamaw @ 169
Remember what happened the last time the Boosh clan got involved with overthrowing the gummint. They damn near got hanged (see recent bbc special on this, in previous comments or go to the bbc web site and search on prescott bush). At that point, things were positively paradisaical compared with now. Militarily, it’s a joke. Politically, it’s suicide. But if they try it, I guarantee this time there will be no mercy. And while i am not a sworn officer of the military, I know many who are and will serve right along with them if the rubber meets the road. Nuff said.
bmaz @ 162
Thank You… Pretty much what I expected too, just wanted to know if you’d heard anything new…!!! 8-)
SnarKassandra @ 168
Surprisingly little has been done in New Orleans except that the Army Corp of Engineers has once again done a third rate job. If a moderate hurricane hits then you can kiss New Orleans goodbye.
Whoever linked that Guardian video thanks for that. Here is a photo essay from Magnum in Motion on Guantanimo. Go to link and hit play. This is one of my favorite sites.
althespook @ 88
In 2004 I was a poll worker, and our polling station was in a Baptist church only a few hundred yards from where I live. There was ABSOLUTELY NO interference from anyone associated with the church. I have nothing but high respect for the lady in charge. She knew her stuff, and did everything, so far as I could tell, with admirable impartiality.
My own church (Episcopal) also serves as a polling station in an adjacent district. Half a dozen of my church friends served as poll watchers. We all donated our meager earnings to a church charity.
So I get my dander up and get angry when anyone makes sweeping sinister generalizations about controlling the votes (presumably by sinister Christians) merely because the polling place happens to be in a church. NOT IN MY BACK YARD! Ccmask, please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. If you have actual evidence, provide it.
Bob in HI
The booze helps, I’ve found.
burnspbesq @ 133
I think it’s all about votes.
madmommy @ 164
It is inexcusable that Mary Landrieu has let her good friend Joe Lieberman get away with no Katrina contractor hearings. She is the Democrat I will be happy to see lose next fall. I know she’s needed to vote for a Democratic majority leader, but really, she is just awful.
althespook @ 161
Notice two of the five are Hawaii’s Senate delegation…
Bob Schacht - Sorry, misunderstood question. You asked how it went, not when ruling would be. Reasonable minds differ. I think as well as can be expected. Here is kink to thread from TNH where we discussed it; also has a link to a liveblog of the hearing.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c.....ly-po.html
Also the comments in this thread were where we started discussintg the 9th Circuit cases and contain some really good stuff from some pretty bright people (myself excluded). If this issue interests you, I highly suggest both threads.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c.....l#comments
dmac @ 137
Oy, must have been bmaz. A truly great story.
TeddySanFran @ 182
She does kinda slither, doesn’t she.
marymccurnin @ 175
And once again, follow the money. Many of the more affluent neighborhoods in NOLA have been restored, some with government aid and some from private or state aid. BUT they are in the upscale areas of town. The low economic areas are left in ruins, without even the ABILITY to get elec and water and sewer even if they pay for it all themselves. Why? because after while that nice land will be taken for imminent domain and then sold to a nice upscale builder (a rethug or dlc dino, take your pick) who will build nice homes and condos and shopping centers for well off people.
it’s still all about the money. racism and punishing democrats and changing elections is still secondary at best.
newtonusr @ 184
Ditto!
SnarKassandra @ 97
Welcome back, Snarky!
Bob in HI
I loved it when Anderson Cooper reamed Mary Landrieu because she was going on and on thanking GW for all of his hard work for the people of LA. I think she is a nasty clown car who sold out New Orleans.
AK -
Tks for the affirmation. Off to muck around at the BBC.
Well, friends, girfriend’s going down.
Camping and then coming back to reality takes it outta ya.
kisses to all my fellowdogs.
bobschacht @ 187
Here and gone.
My brother wants me to practice getting up early tomorrow so that Monday does not shock my system. 10th grade !!!!!!!!!
bobschacht @ 177
I’ve got to side with Bob here. In the interest of full disclosure I work for a very large Baptist church doing child care. As a SAHM it is a great gig for me, and I can take the kids with me to work if I need to. Though I think that alot of their positions are wrong-headed, I have never heard any political influence on behalf of the minister or staff passed to the congregation. There is a disproportionate number of “W 04″ bumper stickers in the parking lot, but the church itself has done alot of good in the community. They were up and running within a day or two after Katrina with food, water, and a group of guys with chainsaws who would come out and take down fallen trees at people’s houses. They are also very active with Habitat for Humanity. There are plenty of problems out there with the evangelical community, but we do need to be careful and not make ad hominem statements. Just my humble opinion.
bobschacht @ 177
bob, that was me, not ccmask. please yell at me.
And the non-southern baptist and episcopalian and methodist and many catholic churches are pillars of rectitude in voting rights. heck, many of them STARTED voting rights actions back in the day.
But do you really think a voting setup in Ted Haggard’s church would be run fairly? I don’t. My snark was an attempt to point that out. And my daddy is a retired methodist graduate theologian and I know far too much about the bible that would literally fry the brains of the fundies if they ever bothered to read it, which they don’t.
so yell at me please. I don’t mind. It stimulates discussion.
*gentle reminder to use the * liberally to avoid the filters (and making us mods actually uh ah like uh work)
TeddySanFran @ 180
And she’s the best we got. Pitiful, no?
good night demi
Thers @ 180
Cheers!
10th grade? My goodness, Cassie, you are getting old before our very eyes :)
Cassie, good night, you sweet, smart, girl. (Big Hug).
And Al, yelling at you…Good Night. Kiss dad for me. (smooch)
Suzanne @ 196
Consider me suitably chastened.
Loo Hoo. @ 185
That was “LS”. My mom was here helping design the containment facility for the final assembly of “Fat Man and Little Boy” in Oregon. LS’s story was heart wrenching.
burnspbesq @ 202
You can always make it up to me with ice cream, burns. I’ll even share with the other mods this time.
It’s off to bed for me as well.
Cassie in the 10th grade…ah, those were the days. If only I knew then what I know now.
Nighty night pups!
Steve-AR @ 174
OMG. This needs to get out there. Every major network needs to broadcast this.
madmommy @ 192
Your point is well taken. As yet, many churches do much good social work, even if their doctrines may be subjects of concern (like the catholic offical position on birth control or homosexuality). And we should not ignore that. But we must also remember that “many will come to me and say, “Lord, Lord we did great works in your name!” and I will say to them, I do not know you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness (some translations use iniquity but I like that word better, NAS I believe.)” Churches by their own chosen place in our society must hold THEMSELVES to a much higher standard, and some do not.
We must learn to “hate the sin”, and not “the sinner” in terms of organiszed religion, no?
And, Cassie, don’t stay up toooooo late.
I just told my son, ten o’clock, you’re going to church with us in the morning. :)
demi @ 199
smooch back. Alway been turned on by progressive gals who like pino grigio…:)
g’nite madmommy - progressive dreams
Suzanne @ 198
Ah!! 10th grade, 1959 that was a good year..at least we didn’t have to worry about jack boot fascists imposing martial law.
althespook @ 207
St. Charles Avenue Baptist?
loo hoo, don’t know why but i’m thinkin’ it might have been LS……..i’m on dialup, so don’t want to go searchin’, gettin ready to go to bed………
and yes, it was quite a story………
Loo Hoo. @ 21
Didn’t work that way in Vietnam, though. But best way to make sure it doesn’t happen here is to stop the killing ASAP.
So I get my dander up and get angry when anyone makes sweeping sinister generalizations about controlling the votes (presumably by sinister Christians) merely because the polling place happens to be in a church. NOT IN MY BACK YARD! Ccmask, please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. If you have actual evidence, provide it.
Bob in HI
My link was an evangelical church. I vote in a Baptist church also and never saw a problem. Sorry you were so offended.
bmaz @ 182
Bmaz, this is the most succinct comment…
“Because the Article II argument is patently freaking absurd.” Dang, that pixie dust must be losing it’s potency!!!
ccmask @ 178
Wow, I have never seen such thorough photo-documentation from Gitmo. It’s terrifying.
oh crap, i missed cassie leaving - did i miss anyone else?
Iraq body count running at double pace By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer
5 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - This year’s U.S. troop buildup has succeeded in bringing violence in Baghdad down from peak levels, but the death toll from sectarian attacks around the country is running nearly double the pace from a year ago.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....g_the_dead
All y’all…the universe provides!
Have a great night chatting.
TeddySanFran @ 217
Teddy: Watch the Katrina essay.
Good night Demi. We will have to dance some other time.
Suzanne @ 216
we all left to go drinking with demi, suz. I’m an autoresponder we left in case you asked.
Actually there have been a number, been too busy commenting to do my usual g’byes…
No, dear, I’M leaving. nodding, now.
demi @ 218
Night demi. if i ever get to cali we’ll have that drink and I will indeed ’spain the universe to you…with diagrams!
Suzanne @ 204
Hope you’re not allergic to strawberries.
marymccurnin @ 222
nite demi
burns, that looks absolutely yummy - perfect for a lovely summer night.
althespook @ 225
with a sharpie?
I really do have to go to bed.
You could get me in trouble.
Here is Ghost Town, the Katrina essay. A couple of pictures will be shown and then hit play. I see they just added a 911 essay…
al - you meant “forth i go-do”.
‘night.
demi @ 227
Oops. I said yes. Two Step.
burnspbesq @ 226
Lurking Mod - do we *slurp* consider the slate wiped clean?
demi @ 227
could? (evil smile)
ccmask @ 178
When is the nationwide demonstration against this? Why is nobody choosing one? I will. How about September 29th? Let’s freaking do SOMETHING. The whole world is wondering what Americans are thinking.
ccmask @ 230
ccmask,
Please click on my name with the f beside it and see photos of New Orleans. Post and pre katrina.
althespook @ 234
You!
GordonM @ 229
You watch it, or i might be forced to use my lumberjack’s prolog on you…night :)
demi @ 227
I Hope You Dance
Not a big fan of mainstream Nashville country, but for some reason I like this song a lot.
Good evening dear friends. So nice to see you all.
Suzanne @ 233
We do, ma’am!
SnarKassandra @ 191
Heh, Missie, my middle’un started her sophomore year three weeks ago…!!! *g*
TexBetsy @ 238
welcome texb. I am attempting to remove my foot from my upper stomach at the moment (got a little too snarky and jammed the thing WAY past the mouth…)
burnspbesq @ 239
Oh, I really am going to bed, but I have to say, after my last break up, my sister took me to a Garth Brooks concert and That Song took me down. thank you for that sweet memory. it’s a great song. nothing like lifting someone up.
Douglas Brinkley has a rather damning op-ed in tomorrow’s WaPo:
snip
snip
snip
snip
althespook @ 243
There’s a winch over by the boat ramp that might be useful to you.
althespook @ 243
Just don’t let anyone tickle you.
Suzanne @ 231
Naw, ya’ll need some more work…!!! *g*
demi @ 244
My pleasure.
marymccurnin @ 236
Okay.
Dang, Teddy, that is a harsh op-ed - it was in the waapoo?
Wonder just how many documented Iraqi deaths it would take to disturb the neocons.
TeddySanFran @ 245
Not a natural disaster!!!!!! Worst engineering disaster in the history of this country.
Other than that I liked what he wrote.
Suzanne @ 251
yes
Hey, CT, you see the f/b birthday present I sent ya?
CTuttle @ 248
An olive branch, one of my favoritest tunes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0G1NvdsSk
Suzanne @ 255
Uhoh, dare I look, early and all…?!!!
Chertoff to replace Gonzo?
My gut is telling me something’s fishy here. If true, another case of of Dem strategery letting a criminal off the hook, without accountability.
Al,
I really am dancing towards the bedroom, but had to say, I often think, when I’m going out, of jelly and cinnamonapples….Thank You~ It works for this thinkingtoomuchgirl.
noblejoanie @ 252
No amount will suffice. They don’t see Iraqis as real people, just as pawns on the geopolitical chessboard.
It’s unfortunate, but probably true, that the only effective way to rein in the neocons is to reinstitute the draft. So long as the soldiers dying in their wars are gang-bangers from East L.A. and white trash from rural flyover country, our soldiers aren’t real people, either. When affluent white kids from McLean High School get sent to Iraq instead of UVa, then and only then will we see change.
from think progress:
‘Spectacular attack’ expected in Iraq in coming weeks.
from Think Progress by Amanda
Today, the Washington Post reports that despite political pressure, the Bush administration “hopes to keep in place its existing military strategy and troop levels there after the mid-September report” by the White House. Several administration officials said that they “expect the insurgents to attempt a spectacular attack in the next several weeks.”
UPDATE: The NY Times reports, however, “administration officials said Mr. Bush was acutely aware that some reduction next year would be required, and they said he planned to use next month’s debate to outline a plan for gradual troop reductions.”
Mary: I only saw 3 pics. I am a doofus on facebook so if there are more can I have a link? I was in New Orleans right before the storm. We also have a very weak dike in the Palm Beach/okeechobee area and it terrifies me.
TexBetsy @ 261
I tell ya, he’s gonna announce another SURGE. It’s Bushian logic: go against all the recommendations and all the press reports. It’s how we got this SURGE and it’s how we’ll get the next one, too.
Why that wascally weasel, beat everybody out! Petro sez:
“I don’t know if I will be near WiFi on Monday, so I’m sending early Birthday wishes and an ice cold Leffe your way.
I will be raising a toast to you on that day as well !!!
Best Wishes,
P.”
Ain’t he sweet? *g*
Teddy — What troops could he possibly surge with? There’s no one left. There;s no equipment left stateside. He’s broken the military.
bmaz @ 162
Well, here’s the website for the 9th circuit.
Findlaw also has a page on the 9th circuit. But no news on the NSA case that I can see.
Bob in HI
Night demi and snark.
What else you need to know: that Americans trying to blow the whistle on the flagrant corruption in Iraq were evidently imprisoned and tortured — In Iraq.
This info now online at that villainously ‘lefty media outlet’, Forbes (via C&L): http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap.....52736.html
Quick! Someone get this link to Brian Baird (!).
In the single case where a whistleblower won a case (against Custer Battles, no less), US Dist Judge TS Ellis III overturned the $10 million award. Anyone know whether that ‘Ellis’ is related to the Bush-cousin Ellis’s?
I first read about Custer Battles on the front page of the Wall Street Journal in spring 2003 — a new ‘innovative’ company maximizing ‘opportunity’ made possible by war.
The Forbes article is a ‘must read’, IMHO. Many of the sources for the quotations are actually named.
It’s interesting that Forbes published this at the same time that the WH/CIA is paying $15 million to generate ‘pro Allawi, pro remain-in-Iraq’ ads. Interesting coinkeydink. Wonder what that means…? (Paging Larry Johnson or Joe Wilson…)
Ohio Storms Cut Power to 100000-Plus
ABC News - 1 hour ago
A car crushed by a tree attracts a curious passer-by on Friday, Aug. 24, 2007, in Chicago, a day after high winds and torrential thunderstorms pounded the region.
burnspbesq @ 260
does that include Tillman?
from the Guardian:
Scientists’ plea to use hybrid embryos
from Guardian Unlimited home | Guardian Unlimited by Jo Revill, Whitehall editor
Animal-human embryos could help advance understanding of genetic diseases, say scientists.
Sweet dreams, Loo Hoo.
Wanna go rabblerouse somemore of dem?
TSF What will Bush surge with? Will the poor guys/gals have to stay 18 months? What a b*stard! You are correct tho, he does seem to go th exact opposite.
o/t We have a documentary coming up on pay tv about the leaders coming to Aus for APEC. Quotes bush saying, in response to what you need in a leader ’some who can articulate a vision’. What a hoot.
demi @ 272
Heh, please do m’dear!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 171
Here you go.
If you have any problems with that, lemme know via email.
Bob in HI
demi @ 257
rest well demi. the gardens are coming, heavily armed this time. no more mister nice flower.
bobschacht @ 266
Oh, no, it is definitely not out yet. I checked before giving you the long winded “I got no clue” answer.
ccmask @ 262
I facebooked you back and left a link. :)
Judge Ellis, it appears, has been very useful to The Regime:
No relation shown here to the Ellis-Bush clan.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
noblejoanie @ 252
Here is the neo-con world view:
The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life.
The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide. Israel provides the perfect example. If the Israelis do not raze Iran, the Iranians will fulfill their boast and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Yet Israel is not popular, and so is denied permission to defend itself. In the same vein, President Bush cannot do what is necessary for the survival of Americans. He cannot use the nation’s powerful weapons. All he can do is try and discover a result that will be popular with Americans.
link
TexBetsy @ 269
A friend of mine said her car would have been crushed had she not been out driving it when a tree fell in her driveway.
may @ 270
Pat Tillman was an anomaly. He’s become a highly inconvenient anomaly due to the apparent circumstances of his death and the Army’s unwillingness to level with us about the actual circumstances of his death.
FWIW, I hate the Bidwills for not naming the stadium Pat Tillman Field.
bobschacht @ 266
Mahalo, Bob, this is the one we need to pay attention to: “Hepting v. AT & T, Case No. 06-17132″
Debbie(aussie) @ 273
We do need leaders who can articulate a vision. The hoot is that Bush thinks he’s the guy. He’s about as suitable for that duty as Shane Warne would be to lead an AA meeting.
Debbie(aussie) @ 273
This because Trudeau the cartoonist portrayed his dad as a feather for saying he didn’t have “the vision thing.” Everything about our president is Oedipal.
TeddySanFran @ 280
I worry more about people than cars. But even so.
burnspbesq @ 281
anomalies highlight situations though
do they not?
SnarKassandra @ 193
I hate practice! ;-)
Bob in HI
burnspbesq @ 281
Bidwell may literally be the worst owner in the history of professional sports in terms of competency (Although Cardinals just went up on the Chargers with one minute left in the game), but he is not a bad man; lot of silent philanthropic stuff that he purposely doesn’t seek press for. The stadium naming was in conjunction with the City of Glendale and the Maricopa County Sports Authority if I recall correctly, and getting the most dollars was part of the whole financing deal. Other than that Bidwell does suck though…
Noted douchebaggy, pants crapping draft dodger Ted Nugent said the US should have gone “Nagasaki” on Iraq.
Of course there would have be no Republican breastbeating about “Iraqi deaths” had this rightwing fantasy action taken place.
I wonder when he’ll get his next op-ed in the Rupert Murdoch Street Journal?
-GSD
demi @ 272
You betcha. We’ve gotta get cwcole going in CA 50!
bobschacht @ 275
Bu, my comment is there!!! scroll down! It still says only 5 com’s but my sixth one is there…!!!
GSD @ 287
I believe he’s going to be on the Editorial Board…of the New York Times when Rupe Rapes It.
GSD @ 289
But but but how would they participate in a democracy if they are all dead.
Good nite all.
bmaz @ 288
OK, but why not “Pat Tillman Field at the University of Phoenix Stadium?”
I can’t believe how sick this nation has become. I mean gutter scrapingly vile, bellicose and irrational.
-GSD
I thought the word articulate, out of his mouth was the hoot. He would be one of the worst articulators eva, and he only has a vision that includes his rich buddies. Truly sad.
sorry, CT, didn’t see your earlier question - yes, you can open it early.. please do :)
Wow. Some powerful, dark humor about the Iraq situation in Sunday’s Doonesbury.
marymccurnin @ 291
been happening in chicago for a hundred years or more.
Story from that era:
Two ward bosses in Chicago in the early 1900’s were out in the cemetary writing down names for the “deader vote” so the Machine would win as usual. “Jones” “check” “McGinty” “check” “Wojahoicz” “what?” “Wojahoicz. It foreign” “Screw that. I’m writing smith.” “hold on, bill! This is america! Foreign guys got as much right to vote as anyone else!” “Wojahoicz, check”.
althespook @ 292
AK, do me a teensy fave, click on Bob’s link @275, scroll down to comment 6, por favor…!!!
bmaz @ 288
Scratch that report. San Diego just drove length of field in 50 seconds for game winning field goal. The Cardinals suck. If you swapped the entire team with New England and put Bellichek, Tom Brady et. al. in Cardinals uniforms and Bidwell as owner, they would consistently win no more than six games a year. Always been that way here; always will.
Anyone else read the Rolling Stone article on contracting in Iraq?
http://www.rollingstone.com/po.....ndle/print
Hi Thers, very nice work!
Suzanne @ 298
Ya short-changed me, you’re supposed to apply’em!!! :P
bmaz @ 303
I can relate. I’m a lifelong New York Rangers fan. I was 39 when they won the Cup. I don’t expect to see another in my lifetime.
CTuttle @ 299
CT, I only see five comments. the last one is by ccmask. I scrolled all the way to the bottom to be sure.
bmaz @ 302
The eternal optimist, eh??? ‘Cept it is the Cardinals…!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 306
ungrateful *&$%#*&% (eyes rolling) i give ya what you have been asking for and you say i shortchanged ya hmmmppphf
newness
burnspbesq @ 295
Dunno. They did name a huge, nice pavilion and party area surrounding the stadium “Pat Tillman Freedom Pavilion” and have him on their ring of honor, where he will be immortalized because the Cardinals, seeing how they SUCK so freaking bad, don’t have many players in the ring of honor….
Betsy starts the week with a zed.
new thready goodness
Waccamaw @ 304
Just did, thanks.
althespook @ 195
Have you ever been a poll watcher or poll worker? If not, I recommend it. Poll watchers and poll workers are NOT provided by the host site. At least here in Hawaii, all poll watchers and poll workers are assigned by the local government. Poll workers can request a placement at a particular location, but placement is not guaranteed. The only thing the church provided was the space.
Unless the laws in Ted Haggard’s state are different, I would guess based on my own experience that the voting setup in Ted Haggard’s church, if it is used as a polling place, would indeed be run fairly– because the setup is not controlled by the church. In fact, regulations for polling places in most states are usually carefully drawn. Remember? We used to have a civil rights division in the Department of Justice before Bush turned it into a Department to Promote Republican Voters.
Again, any process can be corrupted, but unless you have evidence, don’t blame the churches.
Bob in HI
Of course, procedures everywhere can be corrupted.
ccmask @ 25
Dirty Harry’s movies have little if any scholarship in the final cut IMHO.
bobschacht @ 316
an excellent point and quite correct. and in fact true. my snark was strictly to illustrate the MINDSET that many fear about churches being allowed too much entre into the political process.
And I don’t blame churches, I blame Xtians. They are not churches (even thought they have gathering places) and IMHO they have long since ceased to be even slightly christian.
But let me apologize for the snark if it offended. it was not meant that way.
OT- EPUed downstairs -
Just read a chilling story CIA may be set to provoke war with Iran - WTF?
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0824.html
Oh, I think the Bushites’ personal best non-disclosure of raw data was the 2004 exit polls that showed that Kerry won.
Although it’s hard to choose. Did you read about the humongous mother of all holes in the universe recently discovered? That’s where it all is–Bush/Cheney’s votes, the off-the-books military budget billions (and billions), number of times Al Quaeda no. 2 has been killed in Iraq, the WMDs, job data, the deficit…
hole in the universe…
http://www.democraticundergrou.....15;2964839
sangemon @ 23
Don’t you understand? It’s not “our nation” any more. We have suffered a fascist coup. Date: October 2002. Means: The “Help America Vote Act.” And with Bush and Cheney still in office, and impeachment and all reform blockaded by 40 “Blue Dog” Democrats, it is not going to be “our nation” again any time soon, until we…
THROW DIEBOLD/ES&S ELECTION THEFT MACHINES INTO ‘BOSTON HARBOR’!
Waccamaw @ 304
Wow! I sent it out to my mailing list of like-minded friends.
newspaperbrat @ 319
In the mid-50s, the CIA of th United States of America overthrew an elected democracy in Iran and imposed on them the “Emperor of the Peacock Throne.”
Shame! Shame! Shame!
In subsequent years, the CIA of the United States of America taught the the Shah’s Savak the arts of “harsh interrogation.”
Need I say more? The Iranians hate us for very good reason. And it has nothing to do with Israel in this case.
Redshift @ 20
In addition, if the information is Secret why has O’Hanlon been given access to Classified information. And if it’s not Secret then why hasn’t the Pentagon released it publically, making it available for analysis by real experts on epidemiological and statistical demography…which O’Hanlon definitely ISN’T.
I think these numbers are simply one more case of “make it up if it serves your ropaganda purposes”.
Steve-AR @ 36
Even this article is massaged and is actually lying about the number of casualties “going down” in Baghdad.
So if the National death rate has DOUBLED and the PROPORTION of fatalities from violence has declined from 76% (when the total was half as much) to 52% (when it is twice the level in January).
Let’s say the violent death level was 5000 in January and 10,000 in July. The deaths in Baghdad would have been @3800 six months ago…but 5000 in July! So that would be an INCREASE of violent civilian and police deaths of some 33% from January in BAGHDAD!
So in reality the number of civilian deaths has actually INCREASED in the area of the “surge’s success” in Baghdad.
Smell the Bulldada!
Steve-AR @ 174
While the Pugs are opposed to involvement in a UN peacekeeping effort in Darfur because …their not?
Or at least not “black enough” (meaning…”no oil”).
If Iraqi civilian casualties were dropping, then why would Iraqi refugee numbers be soraring with the surge.
It’s early Sunday morning here in Indiana, and I only just began reading the comments section, which has over 300 in it. But one of the early comments asks how did things get so bad in this country. Well, I hope the names of the five Supreme Court Justices who foisted George W. Bush on us will live on in the infamy they deserve. If Al Gore had been warned in August of 2001 about an imminent Al Qaeda attack, I feel quite certain he’d have done something more productive than arrogantly diss and dismiss the messenger. Because I have some misguided friends who are Republicans, I have had to work very hard every day for the last six-plus years on forgiving them for voting for him in 2000, but there is no excuse for anyone having done so in 2004. The Bush/Cheney administration is the true axis of evil at work on the planet.
Peace Patriot @ 321
I agree. The 2004 election was stolen, as was the 2000 election, but in a slightly different way. They managed to do it with rigged machines and corrupt election officials–didn’t have to use the Supreme Court that time. The only reason we got more Dems into Congress in the 2006 mid-terms is that it’s much harder to steal so many local elections whose outcome cannot be rejiggered at the state level by state government officials with an eye to electoral college considerations. The Republicans, ably coached by the crooks who did it last time around, will do their damnedest to pull off a repeat performance in 2008. It’s hard for me to see what is going to stop them, which fills me with despair. My congressman is a Blue Dog Democrat, and my Democratic senator (Bayh) can’t be counted on to vote as he should, either. As for Senator Lugar, he is capable of criticizing the conduct of the war, but never seems to vote for anything that puts the least impediment in the way of the thugs in charge of things.
newspaperbrat @ 317
Read your history before making an ignorant comment. The film is absolutely correct in showing no civilian casualties. Before the battle began, all civilians on Iwo Jima were evacuated to Japan proper by the Japanese army so they wouldn’t get in the way.
Given that the Administration will actually use Graham Greene to buttress their position, all the rest of these circularities and contradictions follow as the night the day.
Surely by now someone has suggested that the Lancet study contains names and addresses, and that divulging the identities of these people would leave them open to attacks by teams of American right wingers, who will kill the Iraqis for daring to blame their loved ones’ deaths on the US military.
Steve-AR @ 66
Well, maybe Congress should do a little investigating. Just so long as it doesn’t interfere with the primary oversight of Bush & Co.
Thers @ 115
Isn’t that going to be redundant? After all, they have NBC, CBS and ABC as well as FOX and CNN.