The DNC just voted to rap the knuckles of Florida Democrats by stripping all of their 185 delegates to the 2008 convention after they tried to move their primary up to January 29.
Basically, here's what happened: last summer, the DNC approved a plan by which Iowa and New Hampshire remained in January, with Nevada and South Carolina also wedged into the early schedule to ensure that states in the South and West, with larger Black and Latino representation, had significance in the early primary process. (States had the ability to apply to the DNC to lobby for their selection as an early state; Florida did not seek such a move at the time.)
All the other states were told -- and my understanding is that even Florida voted for this -- that no one else got to hold a delegate-selecting primary before February 5. If they did, it would be mandatory and automatic that half their delegates would be eliminated from the Convention, with additional penalties possible including the loss of the entire delegation and -- believe me when I tell you this is pretty serious -- having the state bumped to the back of the Denver hotel selection pool.
Except Florida's legislature wasn't hearing that, and a bipartisan vote led to their attempts to claim a January 29 primary. So now Florida's Democratic leaders have a choice: convince the legislature to move the date altogether; convert the primary from a meaningful delegate allocation process into a "straw poll" or "beauty contest"; or stay put and accept the consequences. (Oh, or sue the DNC. Great.)
As Bowers said at the time Florida made their move:
For a state that already has so much sway over presidential elections, and which has such a horrendous track record of verifiable electoral infrastructure, a decision to leap ahead of virtually all other states in the primary calendar can only be characterized as a power grab in the tradition of Bush, DeLay, and Gingrich. It is also almost certainly an attempt to stick it to Howard Dean of the DNC, whose new primary calendar finally allows minorities such as Latinos, African-Americans and union members to have a say in determining the next president, which is an anathema to Florida's elites who have done everything in their power over the past decade to make sure that those groups are not even allowed to vote. The move is also a huge boon to the frontrunning campaigns of Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton, both of whom have tremendous advantages in Florida. If Florida is on January 29th, it will be extremely difficult to see a path for any other candidate as long as Clinton or Giuliani manage to come within a close second in New Hampshire. As I type this, that is a criteria both candidates meet quite easily.
As Lane Hudson noted, this particular power grab was something the DNC had to smack down quickly or it risked becoming irrelevant. Florida now has 30 days to move their primary.
Michigan, I think everybody's lookin' at you.
Update:
"The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee went to great lengths to bring more ethnic, regional and economic diversity to the presidential nominating process. For several years, this issue was carefully examined and after much thoughtful deliberation, South Carolina and Nevada were added to the early primary window. These additions were voted on by the entire DNC membership, including Florida ." – Stacie Paxton, DNC Press Secretary
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Jane!
BADA BING!
Good heavens. I’m agog at this whole thing, from the attempts to move the primaries to the smackdown. Who would have thunk…
Kewl, Jane!
Meanwhile, California is trying to bust up the electoral votes, a clear Repug move. Although the Terminator is supposedly cool to the move…
This is very interesting. I’m trying to make sense of this. How does this play on the Republican side? Let’s say FL keeps the 1/29 date and loses all its Democratic delegates. What happens on the Republican side? If FL calls it a straw vote instead, and creates a later primary date, again, what of the Republican side?
Biodun @ 5
I don’t think it will go through, but the *very* interesting thing is that various of the Democratic responses to this proposed change to the electoral college apportionment *could* result in a nation wide referendum on it…and THAT promises to be *very* interesting. I’ve long wanted the presidential election to be based on popular votes…I think the reasoning and rationale behind the EC is long since dustbinned to history and doesn’t have relevance today. But as a constitutional issue, either all the states voluntarily change, OR the constitution is changed…interesting times…
From NH.
Just a quick toe in the lake here before I have to go and vote.
Good afternoon Jane, all.
So i take it the Floridians get their delegates back if they move the primary. Yes?
From Iowa
I already voted!
nomolos @ 8
Yes! Get with the program.
Maybe it’s time that we all have our primaries on the same date, with no counting started until the polls close Pacific time.
Oh crikey. Do we need to fill out our 2012 ballots as we leave the polls in November 2008?
Re the California split, the Democrats should call the Republicans’ bluff:
Get a competing initiative on the ballot that calls for the same split of the vote — but has a clause that says the split will only go into effect when a number of states representing 2/3 the number of electoral votes have agreed to the same split.
I love Dean. Someone get him on television to talk about this, and ask him whether Hillary’s camp is pushing for these moves behind the scenes.
The DNC needs to look at the make-up of the Florida Legislature. Dems are completely irrelevant to any decision made there. thhave no ability to block anything in either the State House of Representatives or State Senate. I am from Florida. If you don’t want my voice in the convention, don’t ask for my money. As a member of the Orange County Democratic Executive Committee, I will not vote for or donate to the Democratic nominee if the DNC decision stands.
I just got back from my 15 minutes of one-to-one chitchat with Mazie Hirono, she’s a dynamic lady! FISA was the first item, and, she assured me the house dems are addressing it long before it sunsets, in fact, as soon as they reconvene…! The next item was Inherent Contempt proceedings, that caught her attention immediately, and she directed her aide to write it down and highlighted it! The last item was impeachment, she fervently said it was certainly on her table, and she was in talks with others to prod Nancy in pursuing it…!!! In a side note, Code Pink made an appearance…
*g*
To which I’d add, although I know that Iowa and NH are unrepresenative and have undue influence, but they are the only places I see where voters get to size up candidates in person and en masse.
Would that there was a way to make that happen in a more demographically diverse state…
Loo Hoo. @ 11
Unfortunately, about all that would do is assure that the power brokers would most likely make the selections on the second or third or twelfth ballot at the conventions as it would most likely mean no candidate would make the convention with needed number of votes.
TAS @ 15
So because the Dems have no power over anything happening in the Florida legislature, you’re going to punish the DNC and Dem candidates and back the Rs in the Florida legislature because the DNC has made their rules and are holding the states to them?
TAS @ 15
I’d be pissed too. Certainly the DNC is aware of this…
CTuttle @ 16
Good job.
One of these days I’d like to live in a state where I feel like my primary matters.
Loo Hoo. @ 11
Or at least wait until May, for crying out loud. These things happen so early that it seems like the Presidential campaign season starts the day the mid-term elections are over.
CTuttle! Way to go.
TexBetsy @ 22
Out here in Washington we have the Presidential primary at a more normal time of year. In 2004, the election was over long before we voted.
TexBetsy @ 22
Don’t feel bad, I live in GA. I do think that in the future and not in the middle of the game they should go to regional primaries.
All my life voting has been manipulated by one side or the other either by redistribution of districts, date changes, polling times, registration issues, on and on. Voting is the bane of a democracy.
Probably because it is so critical to the democracy it is also the weak link in the chain - it’s Achilles heel.
Voting is the gateway to our democracy. Looks like we need to pay close attention to Florida, again.
We need to pay close attention to ALL the states.
I need to get some lunch. My blood sugar dropped. It may be due to primaries but usually that gives me a headache. No, it’s definitely that I need lunch. I’ll be back later after some good FDL insight has been kicked around.
TexBetsy @ 28
I’ll stand with that statement.
TAS makes a great point; Michiganders on Lane Hudson’s blog also point out the GOPs made the change there as well, although Lane responds that Democratic state Senators all voted for the change even though the state party opposed it.
This is a GOP attempt to divide our party, make our national committee irrelevant, and alienate Florida and Michigan Democrats from our nominee. Howard Dean needs to fix this. It’s a GOP power grab, and our internal arguments about it are exactly what they want.
Do take care of yourself QuakerGirl.
Loo Hoo. @ 24
Mahalo, She was clearly disgusted with the FISA debacle, primarily directing it at the Senate! She is a progressive Dem like Patsy Mink and spirited! She’s got my vote!!!
I have received whinny emails from residents from NH about the changes in the primary calendar. Those of us who would like to have a say in the primary season, I have no sympathy.
KQED-FM in SF had a one-hour program on the CA delegate scam the GOP is trying to pull off. Basic premise - it would give the Rs a stranglehold on the presidency. Not something to be done one state at a time. A nationwide overhaul? now you’re talking.
the counterproposal is to apportion delegates based on the overall national vote.
katymine @ 34
I’m with you, I’d like a say for a change.
Bonjour Punaise? Comment as-tu apprécié votre voyage ?
TexBetsy @ 37
TeddySanFran @ 31
So why does it sound like folks are blaming Howard Dean and requiring him to “fix this” when it is a problem created by power grabbing Republics?
I do not understand.
TexBetsy @ 37
c’etait tres bien, merci! maintenant, au travail…
Elliott @ 36
TexBetsy:
…ton voyage (since you already used the “tu” form…*g*
dakine01 @ 19
Maybe I’m missing something here:
1. Repugs control both Florida Legislature bodies.
2. Repug-controlled Florida Legislature says “Feck You!” to DNC primary rules.
3. Repug-controlled Florida Legislature knows that DNC primary rules “mandate” the loss of Florida Democratic Delegates.
4. Florida Dems get screwed by the Florida Repugs via the DNC.
5. Florida Dems are left with only their joysticks to play with.
And the winner in all this would be…Repugs?
Not so fast. A Democrat actually wrote the bill that moved the primary.
About yesterday’s chat with Jerry from Calitics:
by: Julia Rosen
Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 19:50:29 PM PDT
Here are my initial thoughts on his FDL chat which just concluded. I don’t think he was ever going to gain a lot from his comments, but the appearance was important. He left a lot folks frustrated, including yours truly with his failure to address repeated questions. He was never going to be able to get to them all, but I believe it may be wise for him to take the time to respond to some of them.
Jerry was able to clear up one very important thing. His negative comments about the leadership were about two things, letting FISA go through without a fight and not stopping the supplemental with the rule he voted against (that’s a pretty parliamentarian discussion, not worth getting into right now). Jerry stuck strong to his belief that he can bring along Republicans to negotiate a pull out and override the president’s veto.
Teddy, I appreciated your questions yesterday. Joe Wilson was hot too, huh?
Millineryman @ 41
I don’t know that I can offer a solution to this problem but it sure isn’t fair to have the same two states determine the course of every presidential primary.
OT but I can’t focus:
About twenty minutes ago I saw everything but a certain ring.
How did all of that not come out until now?
Sorry to be so taken up with PW’s post. Even the state of Florida, pictured above, whispered that it had a hard time with Louie’s montage.
Elliott @ 46
Isn’t about time to have a primarys on the same day in every state?
Clinton (and Giuliani) expect Florida to rescue their campaigns from second and third place finishes in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada.
I wonder who those Florida and Michigan Democrats that backed these changes back for President?
What if the Democrats win big in 2008 and the country moves further to the right?
OT
Teddy, last night I meant to say I liked your commentary about Krauthammer, but I said TRex. I’m sorry.
Get Tough @ 48
As I said earlier, all that would do is assure the power brokers make the selection on the second or third or twelfth ballot at the convention as there’s pretty much no way that one candidate would get the fifty per cent of necessary delegates on one day nationwide.
Get Tough @ 48
Scratch that. Concentrating on one or two states allows the candidates to get their messsage out more thoroughly than just air-mailing it across the country. It ain’t perfect, but what is?
TexBetsy @ 22
Wouldn’t that be nice? Actually I would like to be a register as an independent, despite the fact I have voted Democratic as long as I remember, but the Texas system forces me to register as either a D or an R if I want to participate in the primary process. For a long time I resisted, but finally I realized I was cutting off my nose to spite my face…
I’m feeling really uneasy about ‘08.
LS @ 55
you mean like a shift to the right? or a preselected candidate? or?
Elliott @ 51
TRex’s CabbageMallet takedown was pretty swell, though!
Sheesh, this Florida stuff is a mess, huh?
Out of the blue I have received an e-mail from a PA congressman. I don’t think he even replied to a long-forgotten e-mail sent ages ago … but he’s got my addie and he’s obviously sent out a mass communication about THREE Town Halls he’s holding. All of a sudden? The first one was last Thursday but two more are coming up. So, here’s the info for firepups in PA.
Congressman Paul E. Kanjorski Town Hall Meetings
Tuesday, Aug. 28, 2007
7 p.m. to 9 p.m.
Ashley Firemen’s Memorial Park
160 Ashley St., Ashley
Thursday, Aug. 30, 2007
7 p.m. to 9 p.m.
East Stroudsburg University Campus
Lower Lounge, Dansbury Commons
Corner of Normal and Green Streets
Anyone with disabilities or who needs special accommodations should call Congressman Kanjorski’s Wilkes-Barre Office at (570) 825-2200 or his Scranton Office at (570) 496-1011 as soon as possible prior to the town hall meeting.
CTuttle @ 16
CTuttle,
Would you please go here and copy what you wrote here into a comment there?
Thanks,
Bob in HI
Loo Hoo. @ 45
I wasn’t here for it but Julia had this classic quote from our favorite ambassador
in her post at the conclusion of Jerry’s talk
http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3598
LindaR @ 13
Yep. Being done: California’s electoral college schemes
Elliott @ 56
I know there are not many Obama fans in the Lake, but he is the one candidate out of all of them, Repubs or Dems, that if he wins the first two, there will be a wave of support for him in the following primaries. People pretty much have their minds made up on Clinton and Gouliani, Edwards and Romney. And I witnessed a lovefest for Obama in Iowa last week on ABC….
Elliott @ 56
I’m not sure really. I’m not afraid of a shift to the right so long as the real neocons are eradicated from government. I’m concerned that the Dems that can do something to stop the neocon and Repub power grab are somehow underestimating what they are up against. Just a sickening gut feeling.
Get Tough @ 62
this is completely my own opinion/observation but I think Obama’s gotten smaller through the series of debates they’ve had. It’s interesting that you are seeing a lovefest in Iowa where he’s been campaigning.
Elliott @ 46
Maybe a lottery: have two primaries a week for six months, from Jan to Jun, then the presidential election in Nov. Which states have primaries when is selected at random after the last presidential election, giving at least three years to prepare for whatever date it is. If six months is too long, have three a week. All campaign financing is public; corporation donations not permitted.
Well, hey I can daydream.
LS @ 63
Ohh. yuk.
TexBetsy @ 28
Gee, even Hawaii???
We have what must be one of the most irrelevant presidential primaries.
Bob in HI
I’m somewhat lukewarm about Obama: I’ll vote for him if he’s the candidate, but I see nothing about him that makes him stand out, really. However, I do like what he just said about Cuba: Obama’s right on Cuba
CTuttle @ 16
CTuttle don’t get played for a sucker. The only way that House Dems can meaningfully address the FISA capitulation “before it sunsets” is if they can either get President Bush to go along or if 2/3’s of both houses of congress would vote to override a presidential veto - and all this would have to occur inside of the five months the current law has left.
Here’s what is a real possibility. I make it even money that the House votes to retroactively immunize the telecommunications industry for their law breaking during the last several years before the congress recently got around to green lighting those telcoms’ violations of American privacy rights.
Pelosi and Reid have pretending to address the concerns of its base down to an art. The two of them see themselves as party bosses, campaign strategists and beltway insiders, not as elected representatives or constitutional officers.
Until we in the netroots commit to a campaign to oust Pelosi from the Speakership we are going to continue to be hustled. She calculated who she wanted to serve and who she wanted to double-cross and now Pelosi should be made to pay. Ignore her personal vote on FISA, that was Pelosi figuring she could confuse us dumb rubes. Pelosi would have stopped that legislation if she wasn’t a hack all about being a beltway insider.
If we could drive Pelosi from her position as Speaker in the next year or two, this kind of betrayal would not happen again.
peanutbutter @ 61
From Peanut Butter’s link a high five to DiFi!
Schwarzenegger questioned the timing. GOP candidates must have discovered that they aren’t making any headway here. But the responsible course is to reconsider their message, not to look for ways to blunt the state’s voting power.
Democrats, in response, are dusting off a proposal to circumvent the electoral college by committing all of California’s electors to the winner of the nationwide popular vote — but only if states representing a majority of electoral votes do likewise and thus render the electoral college moot. Sen. Dianne Feinstein is going a step further, calling for a constitutional amendment to abolish the electoral college.
Dean acts like turning the Florida primary into a straw poll is some kind of threat. It’s always been a meaningless straw poll wallowing in irrelevence. It traditionally comes at a time when the nominations are more or less sewn up. Hey Mr Dean–we know how to make our elections meaningless farces on our own. Your threat to make our meaningless farce more meaningless and farcical makes me burst into peals of pointless laughter.
Get Tough at 62,
Although I will support the candidate the Democrats decide on, and the writing on the wall seems to say that it is Hillary, I have been very impressed with Obama and intend to vote for him in our completely useless primary here in Arizona. Oh, and count me as not being too happy with Iowa and New Hampshire getting a disproportionate level of power on who wins the primary elections.
peanutbutter @ 65
more dreams like this one!
peanutbutter @ 61
thanks. But unless both initiatives are on the ballot at the same time, I fear the Republican one might pass because on its face it seems “fair.”
1,577 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
My contribution to political dialogue and to those who still haven’t seen the truth about Mrs. Clinton and the corporate fascists is goin’ on the bumper a my car and will echo from here to November of 2008:
“You don’t negotiate with fascists” Joe Wilson, American hero
Now, after listenin’ to Jerry McLieberman yesterday, there should be no doubt from anyone with even one functionin’ brain cell left that Mrs. Clinton will spell the end of a progressive Democratic Party if she wins the nomination. The best we ken do, I’m afraid, is see to it that she doesn’t win the presidency and we maintain some nominal control a both houses of congress.
I think we need ta look at hittin’ the streets and forcin’ the Democratic Party candidates to oppose continuing occupation…another 1968 Democratic Party convention if that’s necessary. Look folks, we are outgunned here but we have the numbers: 70% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND COUNTIN’!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER : YOU DON’T NEGOTIATE WITH FASCISTS!!!
Norske, Joe Wilson endorsed Hillary.
OT, but thank heavens. Dr. Ana Pau of New Orleans has been vindicated.
Wouldn’t it be nice if all presidential primary votes were held between April 15 and June 1.. Leaving a six week window for all states to participate and 5 months available for conventions and party nominees to hold debates etc..
Just seems like pushing primarys back to 10/11 months before the election is to long.
If Di Fi is serious about abolishing the EC I will have to send her a thank you note for the first time since she was Mayor.
Boston1775 @ 76
touche’
One of the reasons I support Kucinich was because back in the 70’s when he was the ‘boy mayor’ of Cleveland, he refused to sell the city-owned utility to a private entity, but I had no idea that there was a mafia hit out on him. What guts.
Here’s a link to a site with the story. At the end there is a YouTube with the entire story….you gotta see this. Wow. The MSM would never report on how much guts he had….and hell he was only in his 20’s.
http://www.towncalleddobson.com/?p=840
Elliott @ 64
Almost every single response from Obama in the “debate” in Iowa was met with applause. Tthe other candidates, particularly Hillary, received a smattering after a couple of responses. He is going to win this thing.
Norske, I think we need a big Saturday get-together. Nationwide. Like the immigration marches, only much larger. All well-organized and peaceful.
Loo Hoo. @ 77
You need a hanky to read it. What have we become as a nation that we let this happen?
Teddy et al, OT on the PW post: Want to hear something funny?
When I looked behind Door#1, I thought they were all pearls. I kid you not. Even told that to Mr1775.
I know, I know,
Talk about clutching your pearls.
Elliott @ 56
I feel uneasy, too. Too much Democratic strategy seems to be based on an assumed election sweep in 2008. “No, we can’t do that now. Just wait until we win big in 2008 and then we can fix it.”
And then Dems wonder why they always get tagged with being “weak”! If they act like the proverbial 98-pound weaklings, unable to protest when Republicans kick sand in their faces now, why should we think that they’ll be transformed into Charles Atlas in November 2008 and all of a sudden start fighting back then?
Will 60 98-pound weaklings fight better than 50 98-pound weaklings when Republicans kick sand in their faces? Or will they just cry and whine?
Bob in HI
98 pound weakling in H.S. — but I was on the wrestling team!
On Obama, He wins over almost everyone who sees him in person.. But he loses me everytime he talks about the Middle East and Persian Gulf. Does anyone have a link to who Obama consults with on national security matters?
1,577 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Boston:
“Joe Wilson endorsed Hillary”
Yes, and Joe Wilson was a Reagan Republican, his political evolution is still proceeding and he is more concerned about the fascists in power now than the fellow travelers who hold the appearance of difference. That is my point…get it??!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER YOU DON’T NEGOTIATE WITH FASCISTS!!
LindaR @ 74
They’ve both been filed but that is no guarantee of making it to the ballot — at this point, signatures have to be collected and so on.
I’d judge this as a serious threat, but one that we should have no trouble stopping, if the Democrats pay attention.
Did you know, by the way, that Democrats in North Carolina are doing the same thing? To be sure, their efforts wouldn’t have as big an effect as giving away 40% of CA’s votes would, but hands are dirty all around, I must say.
Tying the electoral college to congressional districts has some serious repercussions, I think, even if it’s done nationwide. For example, congressional districts are redrawn from time to time — can you imagine the additional pressure to gerrymander given the additional stakes a congressional district would have under these schemes?
bobschacht @ 59
Wilco…!!!
I’m hearin’ ya, Norske.
I’m a little slow, sometimes.
FYI, new post
Great job CTuttle,
By all means share your experience far and wide!
1,577 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Loo Hoo and the Firepup Patriots:
“I think we need a bid Saturday get together, nationwide. Like the immigration marches only much larger. All well organized and peaceful.”
Yes indeed, I think you are on to somepthin’ there, citizen Loo Hoo…but remember that any mass demonstration that is inclusive, well organiz