Seems you can’t go a day without hearing it at least once from someone who lets Grover Norquist or his disciples do his or her thinking: “Name one thing that government does better than private industry!”
Sorry, no can do. I can’t name just one thing, but several. For starters:
– Pandemic disease fighting. Quick, name any for-profit companies analyzing dead birds looking for West Nile virus and warning communities when it’s detected in the vicinity! Oh, that’s right, there aren’t any. Gee, and it’s an essential service, too: Why doesn’t the magical free market just magically provide it? Oh, that’s right, it’s tough to make a profit doing it.
– Old-age insurance and pension plans. Social Security has less than 1% overhead costs whereas the private US life-insurance plans (as well as privatized plans in places like the UK and Chile) have around 12% to 14% overhead costs.
How disgusting are the privatizers’ lies WRT Social Security? One moment they’re arguing that it’s going to run out of dough in the 2040s — a scenario that only happens if the country has sluggish Depression-era growth levels from now until the 2040s – and the next they’re touting the alleged high rates of return on private (privatized) accounts, rates which would only be possible if the economy grew at peak-of-the-Clinton-boom levels forever. In short, they’re predicting both Permanent Recession AND Permanent Boom at the same time.
– Public utilities. Again, the government-run versions run better, cheaper and with less overhead costs than the privatized ones (remember Enron, anyone?).
– Intelligence operations. The CIA is belatedly finding out that privatizing their intel operations is costing more and yielding less than was the case before privatization.
– Warfare. By now most of us are getting increasingly familiar with the growing and troubling role played by “private security companies” (what used to be called privateers or mercenaries) in the US occupation of Iraq — a situation that our new Congress has now managed to put under some actual oversight.
This is just off the top of my head, folks. Give me the better part of a day and I could have a bunch more cites and facts in context to show what a rip-off it is to privatize government functions. (But of course the main goal of the anti-gummint/tax crowd is to not have their tax dollars going to poor black people, so they’re going to ignore everything I just cited.)
Related posts:
- President’s Comments on Public Option: No Commitment, Open to Triggers
- Blanche Lincoln Signals Support for Triggers, but Not for Anything Worth Triggering
- Why You Might Never Get Quality Affordable Health Insurance: The Dangerous Lack of Robust Risk Adjustment
- Obama: If Private Insurers are Such Crack Businesses, How Can “Incompetent” Government Put Them Out of Business?
- Private Health Insurers Threaten Americans to Prevent Public Plan Competition





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Nah, can’t be
zunoed?
Ah, missed it by THAT much!
hola
Hi PW, How,s things in MN?
Sorry, dakine01.
My first zed. I want to thank the Academy….
The whole *concept* of privatizing things that are actually part of the common good just makes me so angry all I can do is fume.
Have you ever watched Saul Landau of “hot Talk” interview with Lt Col Karen Kwiatowski
http://video.csupomona.edu/str…..index.html
You can scroll down to get to Karen’s interview
foulis @ 6
Well, yeah, the private companies might not be all that efficient, but they’re so much more *profitable*. Look at all those revenue opportunities we’re squandering by letting the government handle all that stuff.
Twain @ 9
Oops. The Academy is honored by your presence.
Please more!
Kathleen @ 8
She is an awesome woman, I would love to be able to see her here on FDL….she does not get enough of a voice.
Medicare – Better coverage than most private plans.
Social services (at the state levels) – with all the problems associated with the various state level Child Welfare agencies, they still run far more efficiently and with more care for the children than would be and is displayed by for-profit organizations.
Police work (do we REALLY? want security gurads providing all the Law Enforcement?)
Prisons
And give me some time, and I can help you add more to your list PW!
Education.
How about library system.
apples and oranges
Grover Norquist was right circa 1840.
Post WW I, he’s got an audience, but he’s wrong.
foulis @ 1
Heh, that’s the usual response…!!! Congrats!
If you are unaware of this website it is a treasure chest of info about the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Video about Palestinian women being stripped searched
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/etq.htm
Trailer for a film that If Americans only knew is producing about the conflict and the Israeli lobby
http://www.ifamericansknew.org…..lerq.htmll
Fire and police services.
Kathleen @ 16
Bookstores! I mean, what kind of crappy business model lets people just read books for free?
Elliott @ 4
there can’t be two of us.
Dr. Hillhouse had a comment about outsourcing of intel services at the DIA.
Link
…So will the DIA get what it really needs through such a procurement system that gives contractors the power to define the Pentagon’s intelligence needs? Unfortunately, the 800-pound gorilla of the Intel Community will never know because it’s outsourced its brains.
…
Hi PW,
excellent examples!
The problem with privatization is that you pay, you play. You don’t pay, you die.
Republican population control.
Elliott @ 22
??
Kathleen @ 16
What Dept, Cabinet, Agency, etc… hasn’t been infected with that Spanish Flu…??? 8-(
Elliott @ 4
Would you mind taking a slightly different nom de plume, as we already have an ‘Elliott’ here as a frequent commenter? Thanks.
LS @ 26
I never said Hola
dunno who that is.
Health insurance.
Even the worst government health insurance programs are better than our private health insurance.
egregious @ 28
…and an Eli…!!! *g*
Elliott @ 29
Probably someone wanting to comment and just didn’t know there already was an Elliot..
EPU’d from downstairs:
OT–
A Harvard study predicts that the way we get news is evolving rapidly, and that in the future, we will get less and less of our news from local ‘dead tree’ newspapers, and more from the Internet– either from newspaper websites, or from news aggregators, like yahoo.
Well, let me save you some time, and introduce you to Truthout.org, in case you’re not already familiar with it. On their front page, you can easily access the best reporting from the MSM, but also the best from here, there, and everywhere. Well, not FDL per se, although they did have a link to FDL during the Libby trial (didn’t everyone?) They also present reports by their own investigative reporters, who rank with the best of the MSM most of the time.
They’re certainly a better news aggregator than Yahoo, and they’re a better first stop of the day than the NYT or the WaPo because besides carrying the best of the NYT or the WaPo, they’ll provide the other stuff, too.
They’re kinda like the NPR of the toobz. And like NPR, they are funded by viewer contributions. They deserve whatever they can get. I’m a regular contributor.
TruthOut.org and FDL: A great way to start your day as a well-informed citizen.
Bob in HI
“they’re predicting both Permanent Recession AND Permanent Boom at the same time.” Ah, you caught that. How ’bout Bush saying that the SS trust fund is just “worthless IOUs” (TBills), but that if you choose, under his absoposidefilutley faaabulous plan, to invest it that way, you could invest in TBills backed by the full faith and credit of the US gov’t?
The government (including our public universities and our science foundations) does better scientific research, of nearly every variety except the very last level of consumer technology design.
peanutbutter @ 7
They want to privatize the presidency, too.
Bob in HI
Heh, I know how that feels.
A while back a poster showed up named Busted.
I’m thinking, great, now I am going to get accused of saying something I didn’t.
Thankfully they either changed their handle or just moved on.
I’m bad enough all by myself, thank you.
For anyone who is looking at public utilities, I read last week that at least one state, Virginia (which is, I realize, a commonwealth, but..) has decided to abandon deregulation. How FERC decided that deregulation of what is a public good was a good idea is beyond me. They tried it in the UK long before it came to the table here and it did not work well there either. Under deregulation, power companies lose their generating capacity (and whatever economies of scale they achieve from that)and have to buy their power from other operators. The power always costs them more NOW than it did when they owned their own facilities. There is no way, under the current scheme, that deregulation benefits the customers in any way other than giving them “choice” – they will not really save money. At the same time, the utility companies themselves no longer have any incentive to invest in their systems, so you end up with problems such as were experienced a couple of summers ago out in Ohio which then flowed east. Utility infrastructure has suffered mightily under deregulation.
bobschacht @ 36
*sputter*
Thanks for the grin…
egregious @ 28
thank you, egregious. *s*
Eli @ 10
Eggsactly, enrich Shrub’s ‘Have-more’ base, the 28%’ers running the show!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 41
Well, if the base *were* comprised of the filthy rich, I’d understand it. But a good chunk of the die hard supporters are people who have themselves been adversly affected by this madman’s policies. We need to peel them off somehow…
GordonM @ 34
I remember Kevin Drum pointing that out way back when and just going, Whoa. I think he asked if anyone could provide an economic growth rate that could simultaneously justify *both* scenarios, but I’m pretty sure no-one ever came up with one.
Imagine that.
I’d have to stipulate “Before or after 2000″?
Before Bush, FEMA was pretty good in the event of a disaster. After Bush, not so much.
So that everyone here knows:
In 1971, I went through the army counterintelligence school.
It was common knowledge then that CI officers attended anti-war rallies.
I just listened to this diary and was struck that protest used to mean so much. Could it again?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/24/92911/4116
Hey PW, you forgot the most egregious (so sorry EG) scam:
Privatization of the Presidency:
Subcontracted out to A*P*C, Kissinger Associates, Halliburton, the RNC, and of course, the Crawford City Loony Bin & Dog Pound.
Politicization, privatization, and fear to control the masses.
Not good.
peanutbutter @ 42
I don’t think we can peel them off. They have been told that they are not doing well because they’re not praying hard enough or working hard enough, or not giving enough to the church. They will never get it – infortunately.
El Cid @ 35
And, so I understand, ironically the majority of pharmacological research which the industry laments is so costly, hence high drug prices…
did anyone mention trash pick-ups? we have private trash service and we call constantly to remind them to PICK UP THE TRASH!! amazing
It’s beer oclock on the left coast, have a great weekend.
Whoa. Despite Rick Santorum’s efforts at privatizing weather info, we here in hurricane country really really appreciate NOAA and the Nat’l Hurricane Center and satellite info from west Africa all across the ocean. Then let’s not forget FDR’s Tennessee Valley Authority which, I am told, even the GOP folx from down thettaway, wouldn’t dare touch (some tried, alas). And the much-maligned Postal Service which, despite numerous rate increases by Congressional fiat, remains the cheapest and most efficient in the world. Oh, there’s more, much much more.
peanutbutter @ 42
PB, that has always escaped my comprehension, why they would consistently vote for their own worst interests…??? Oxyc*nt*n is some powerful shit, I guess…?!!! ;-)
peanutbutter @ 42
Have you seen Krugman’s column today? He says the secret is Teh Racism. I just posted about it…
1,577 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Phoenix Woman and the Firepup Patriots:
“Name one thing that government does better than private industry.”
When will that ridiculous statement be put to rest…have we not experienced enough depressions, pandemics (or close to), recessions, and technology lags that we can finally speak with our experience that corporate business is nothing more’n organized crime sanctioned by the legal system?!!
Unregulated business without the market controls imposed by organized labor is ultimately slavery which has been proven to be the most INEFFECIENT economic system known to man. The propose of democratic-republican government is to provide for some small measure of democratic control of the economy, or at least democratic influence in the economy to ensure the social conditions conducive to democracy. We have lost our democracy…our economic freedom is now a thing of the past.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DO IT TO THEM BEFORE THEY DO IT TO US AGAIN!!!
Toby Wollin @ 38
But Toby, Col. Sanders took his fried chicken recipe to 500 different places before anyone accepted it! Think how much poorer the nation’s palate would be if he had given up at only 900. It took faith and hardwork to be rejected 1,250 times, but Col Sanders just kept on! He knew in his heart that his recipe of herbs and spices with that special ingredient of recycled 30 weight, he would succeed! And finally, at the 4,327th attempt, he found someone who believed in him!
(Though if that’s all he wanted, a dog would’ve been a lot cheaper.)
public schools often get a bad rap but thank god for public schools as we all cant send our kids to private school
Eli @ 54
My money quote:
Ronzoni Rigatoni @ 52
everytime I see you post, I have to have Rigatoni for supper.
Eli @ 54
Nice job, as always, Eli!!! 8-)
Thanks, CTut!
Jonathan @ 45
Um, yeah. And they weren’t that hard to pick out, either.
Elliott @ 22:
There was another person posting under the name Hmmm the other night, overlapping with me. I probably should have said something at the time.
On the other hand, how do I know they weren’t already using the name before I got here, and it’s -me- who’s the usurper-come-lately…?
Hmmm.
A modicum of oversight is so beneficial for all, over all aspects of Govt. and Corporate actions!!!
GordonM @ 62
Doh!!! ;-)
Hmmm. @ 63
Hmmmm.
Elliott @ 66
Elliott.
GordonM @ 62
My point, FWIW, is that posters at FDL should assume they are being spied upon.
can anyone here tell me why the wingers hate gov’t?…yet they’re some of the biggest lobbyists and think tankers who who pimp off said hated gov’t……
Well, there is a way that we can ascertain which Elliott has been using the name longer — but it takes a while for us to search back IPs and e-mail addresses in the database. So let’s do it the faster way because we can’t have two people using the same name at the same time — that’ll get too confusing. So, let us know when you started posting, and we’ll figure things out from there — does that sound fair? Otherwise, I’m going to have to spend the next few minutes digging through the database and, as we all know, my tech skills aren’t that fast… *g*
Elliott @ 59
LOL, me too
Elliott @ 66
Hmmmmmmmm… :P
Christy Hardin Smith @ 70
*gasp* You’re certainly up late, Redd…!!! *g*
Jonathan @ 69
Ever since I first went online (around ‘91), I have assumed I could well be spied upon. I have been certain of that since 2001. I’m considerably less worried now than I was in ‘01, ’cause even E Germany never got to the point of being able to arrest 50% of the population.
(And did you see my Szigeti (sp?) comment to you downstairs?)
Uhoh, I know why… Everyone wants answers from poor Jerry…!!!
CTuttle @ 66
I can speak to this one from first hand experience. When Quakers protested, believe it or not, the CIA would send someone in the middle of us (like we didn’t know each other) and start screaming obscenities at the police and pushing in the crowd. They knew we could figure it out but all they cared about was what the press reported which was usually that the protesters resorted to violence.
They stand out like sore thumbs and you can spot them at any rally.
CTuttle at 74 — We have the McNerney chat coming up in a bit and I thought I’d see what he has to say…
Public Utilities- Before gadgetmania, everyone had one home phone and the world got along jut fine. Now I have to have two phones, a home one and a cell, and two phone bills. I don’t even like to talk on the phone that much but they have made it so you have to have at least two phones to be considered a civilized human being. I call that screw-ometry!
Interstate Highways (a Republican program under Eisenhower) Rural Electrification (I know it’s covered under utilities but we forget how important it was less than 100 years ago) and childhood immunizations (I know, it’s part of pandemic disease control but I was a kid when the first polio vac’s were developed and remember all of us kids lining up at schools for the shots)
QuakerGirl @ 76
I would think that anyone who tried to claim that Quakers are violent and unruly would end up damaging their own credibility.
And now I’m trying to imagine a Buddhist riot…
GordonM @ 75
…somebody is paid to analyze the sheer masses of input, how many individuals versus how much input… Hmmmm…!!! ;-)
let’s not forget the U.S. Coast Guard’s performance during Katrina… who else coulda done all that?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
Howie always puts BA posts up first at DWT:
posting link bec. a lot of info to absorb-
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..erney.html
Eli @ 80
It’s violent Jains that give me the heebie-jeebies.
GordonM @ 75
Just went down and saw your comment. Thanks. I got a record (vinyl) yesterday of Szigeti’s. Great violinist.
juslin @ 51
Well, ours works well enough, but it gets more and more expensive every year!
funny zed, foulis
Bush is Listening, so
Use Big Words.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
707!!! Crossed in the toobz… *g*
Twain @ 49
Boxer in Animal Farm…
busted at 37 says-”
Heh, I know how that feels.
A while back a poster showed up named Busted.
I’m thinking, great, now I am going to get accused of saying something I didn’t.
Thankfully they either changed their handle or just moved on.
I’m bad enough all by myself, thank you.”
did you see earlier that norske offered a rare apology for being tired to you and me?
GordonM @ 83
You won’t like this, then…
How’s about the Post Office?
RonD @ 88
…and with the least amount of letters… I seem to recall his difficulty with “My Pet Goat”…!!! ;-)
On the subject of CIA dirty tricks and sneaky lies, I was doing anthropological research in Southeast Asia and the CIA would send out agents posing as anthropologists. They didn’t care what the consequences were for anthropologists. We were still in Vietnam at the time. I couldn’t understand how so many people were employed by the CIA to do their dirty work. I guess 25% of the general population is always malevolent. Today they work for Blackwater et al.
Social Security is currently projected to go into the red in 2017. At that point, Social Security “surpluses” are supposed to take up the slack. Social security surpluses are, however, a shell game. What will happen in 2017 is that shortfalls in Social Security will be covered by general revenues to 2040. It is projected that even with no modifications to the system, payroll taxes will still be able to cover 74% of Social Security obligations in 2040.
CTuttle @ 72
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. It is probably nothing. Just another person whose name is Elliott. Heh.
Jonathan @ 85
Someplace in the barn (don’t kill me) I’ve got vinyl of Stokowski conducting and Szigeti playing Brahms. As revolutionary as, oh, Glenn Gould doing Bach, or Chick Corea doing Round Midnight…
toby at 38 says-”For anyone who is looking at public utilities, I read last week that at least one state, Virginia (which is, I realize, a commonwealth, but..) has decided to abandon deregulation. How FERC decided that deregulation of what is a public good was a good idea is beyond me. They tried it in the UK long before it came to the table here and it did not work well there either. Under deregulation, power companies lose their generating capacity (and whatever economies of scale they achieve from that)and have to buy their power from other operators. The power always costs them more NOW than it did when they owned their own facilities. There is no way, under the current scheme, that deregulation benefits the customers in any way other than giving them “choice” – they will not really save money. At the same time, the utility companies themselves no longer have any incentive to invest in their systems, so you end up with problems such as were experienced a couple of summers ago out in Ohio which then flowed east. Utility infrastructure has suffered mightily under deregulation.”
having worked for a utility, i doubt it…………they cover infrastucture and assets……balanced against the two……..it’s comlicated.
GordonM @ 97
I love Chick Corea!!!
juslin @ 58
Thanks. And notice the headlines any time you see anything to do with ecucation. 90% of the time you’ll see the word Failure! They need to get over NCLB!
LS @ 99
So I guess you don’t pass up many Corea opportunities.
Can’t help plugging one of my favorite economic demographers -Ronald Lee at UC Berkely. He’s done research on social security and medicare, and says social security can be fixed with “some tinkering”. Medicare as currently constituted will be a problem, though.
Below is a summary of the big picture: conclusion is when you take recent patterns of private saving and all public programs into account, the old convential wisdom idea that the baby booms kids have it better than the depression and WWII generation, who are now old folks now, and who gave to society on net.
So, this reinforces my prejudice that the baby boomers, and in partricular, my older brothers and sisters and cousins (them d*** hippies!) are ungrateful brats for voting for Reagan, Bush I and especially Bush II. And for even thinking about the Bush II social security privatization scam. If I would not be caught up in it, my dislike of the wingnut baby boomer set, and the many now reactionary ex-hippies, leads me to WANT to see them invest in Bush’s miracle retirement scheme. Let them pay 3% per year to earn 2% per year! I’d like to see them howl, except that I do have a social conscience, and I would have to do it too.
Who Wins and Who Loses? Public Transfer Accounts for US Generations Born 1850 to 2090 Antoine Bommier, Ronald Lee, Timothy Miller, Stephane Zuber
NBER Working Paper No. 10969
Issued in December 2004
—- Abstract —–
Public transfer programs in industrial nations have massive long term fiscal imbalances, and apparently permit the elderly to benefit through pension and health care programs at the cost of the young and future generations. However, the intergenerational picture is turned upside down when public education is included in generational accounts along with pensions and health care. We calculate the net present value (NPV) of benefits received minus taxes paid for US generations born 1850 to 2090, and find that all generations born from 1950 to 2050 are net gainers, while many of today’s old people are net losers. Windfall gains for early generations when Social Security and Medicare started up partially offset windfall losses when public education was started, roughtly consistent with the Becker-Murphy theory.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w10969
My cockatoo, Lilly, laid an egg. Must be a sign. Immaculate conception.
Eli @ 92
True – Baldwins give me heebie-jeebies, too.
LS @ 103
707 !!!!!!!!!!
Somebody didn’t all the way through the “Republican Rally Manual”. Must be something in there about not getting caught.
…..Quebec provincial police are standing behind three officers who went undercover during protests at the recent Montebello summit, saying the men weren’t there to provoke demonstrators.
……
Link
Eli @ 81
Frankly, I thought they were stupid. But the Right Wing press loved it. They never mentioned Quakers just a group of anti-war protesters. Twist the facts. They wouldn’t mention Buddhists either. It would read more like anti-war extremist.
dmac@100 — I have that experience also as well as time dealing with the telcos and I can tell you that it’s even worse with the telcos than it is with utilities. Many of the smaller telcos in my area are not doing pole maintenance or replacement; they are waiting for storms to do their work for them and then having the insurance companies pay. As for the electric and gas side, I merely point to last August, the Borough of Queens and ConEd.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 70
Hi Christy,
I’ve been posting since the Libby trial if that helps.
Name me one thing George W. Bush has ever done as well as anyone else. Let alone better. The proof is in the pudding. Just take a look at our economy. The Bush/Norquist/Rove economy.
GordonM at 98
I’m not a musicologist.
I just love music.
FWIW, I think Brahms violin concerto (he composed just 1) is the towering musical achievement of the 19th century.
Just an amateur’s opinion.
toby at 38 -
i would add-that we pay for the upgrades…….which i have never understood………so that part you had right………..
if i had a business and i upgraded it, i would eat that, but if you are a public utility, the customers pay for the upgrade………….tell me how that is fair…………..
Just for clarity:
I didn’t mean to suggest that anything nefarious is necessarily going on with any of the doubled-name incidents. This is one area that doesn’t trigger even -my- rather suspicious nature. (Hence my handle, eh?) With such a popular site, some amount of simple coincidence has to be expected. And accepted.
Hmmm.
The problem with public schools? The voters. Or non voters.
GordonM @ 104
For the record, Adam Baldwin is just *a* Baldwin, not one of *the* Baldwins.
Will the real Elliott please standup.
Elliott at 111 — Yep, I know. You are in my threads a lot, so I know your writing voice with the name. We’ve had a couple of other Elliots, too, though, and I’m not certain on the timeline unless and until I do a database search. Or unless someone isn’t exactly wedded to using Elliott — in which case, that’s the easiest way to settle it. (We had 3 Mary’s at one point, for example…that was way too confusing in a thread all at once. LOL)
It seems to me that any service that everyone needs to participate in society should be commonly held, i.e., public. Roads. Military. Healthcare. Public utilities. Law enforcement. Electoral financing. And, as LooHoo says, the Post Office.
OldCoastie @ 82
‘Deep Water’ is another privatization boondoggle…!!!
Consider also:
Funding basic research. Private industry simply isn’t interested, and what little basic research that used to be sponsored by private industry (for example, at Bell Labs) has mostly disappeared. Private industry is good at doing applied research and advanced development that builds on what was found out by government-funded research; without government funding, a lot just wouldn’t get done.
Keeping us safe. Let Grover Norquist have ethylene glycol in his toothpaste; I’ll take a strong FDA and CPSC, thank you very much.
RonD @ 120
How about gated communities?
Yes, Pheonix Woman, I agree. Some things are simply done better in the public sector. Heresy, but true. And also, some things are simply not appropriate for the private sector–regardless of considerations of ‘efficiency’. Your utility example is an excellent one–for power, but also things like municipal water supplies. This ain’t trivial. T. Boone Pickens is buying up water rights all over texas. Extra-national corporations are running much of Mexico’s water policies.
“Correctional Institutions” come to mind as another example. It is an evil, evil, evil sin that private companies run jails in this country. So, regardless of “efficiency” or cost-effectiveness, there are many functions of society that we simply do not want to go private, ever.
Hmmmm — if you are okay with that as a handle instead of Elliott, I’d really appreciate it. I think that’s what you are indicating, but I want to be sure that’s really okay for you. Having written under the ReddHedd pseudonym for a while, so I know how the handle used can be a personal thing. But if you are okay with using Hmmmm, then that solves the whole thing without my having to dig through the archives.
didn’t read the comments but let’s not forget the transportation from new orleans which was privatized, contracted, sub contracted and it never arrived
this is simple, public neccessities are known as commons, roads are commons, water is commons, parks, keeping air and water clean are commons, education…these are commons
when a service is required, private industry MUST charge more then public providers, private industry prices according to need or interest, when a service is needed they price as high as possible
when a serice is not needed they have to price so the service is attractive
very simple economics, there is no commons that should be privatized
commons can be helped along with private industry, allowing them to compete with the commons is a good idea, for instance private education is a great idea, ONLY if there is public education to compete with
so there you go, commons cannot be privatized…can’t happen if we are to avoid robber baron eocnomics
Joe Buck @ 120
Yes, please.
toby says-” I have that experience also as well as time dealing with the telcos and I can tell you that it’s even worse with the telcos than it is with utilities. Many of the smaller telcos in my area are not doing pole maintenance or replacement; they are waiting for storms to do their work for them and then having the insurance companies pay. As for the electric and gas side, I merely point to last August, the Borough of Queens and ConEd.”
i worked for the telcos, with friends in the power plants……….it’s complicated, that’s all i can say……it’s not just the insurance, it’s complicated…….really.
Chick Corea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng_1zKcdw8M
wesgpc – I am 55 (late boomer by one reckoning, mid-boomer by a much lamer one). I have voted in every Presidential election since I reached voting age. I think I have missed one (1) Congressional election, and maybe 2 primaries. I have never, ever in my entire life voted for a f*cking Republican. If anything, I think that Reagan may well have been worse than GW – precisely because he was good at it.
Everyone wants services. But everyone salivates over tax cuts.
Good godess, I have a science project going on in my kitchen!!! Ahhhhhh…I threw all kinds of stuff into a caste Iron pan…I’m ascared.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
I want a service that provides me with tax cuts.
Toby Wollin @ 38
From my scandals list.
The demise of PUHCA is inexplicable given the California fiasco. Also generators and distributors are often different parts of the same company. So where a distributor can blackmail states for higher rates to stave off bankruptcy, the generating parts are making out like bandits.
ls at 105 says-”My cockatoo, Lilly, laid an egg. Must be a sign. Immaculate conception.”
you don’t have enough animals out in the barn???????
a cockatoo??????
lovely……..never heard of an egg from a cockatoo…..and known a few with them, take it as a sign……..
Christy, there were two Elliots on this thread.
And, also a “hmmmm” who said that they had noticed another “hmmm” on another thread.
As far as I know, the person posting the most comments on this thread is “The Elliot” with an already established FDL identity.
the “hmmm” issue is separate.
LS @ 132
Wow, a caste iron pan? Do you have to, like, separate it from the other pans?
dmac @ 133
Um, I hope this is not connected with the science project, and throwing stuff into a cast iron pan…
Tithonia @ 135
I have an Untouchable pan, but I never use it.
Twain @ 9
they like you! they really like you!
Elliot or Elliott?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 124
Hmmmm,
Thank you!
.
I didn’t know that was you playing up there.
And thanks Christy, you really are the best!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 131
Thats so passe, many reputable polls recently have trended towards a plurality supporting tax increases for better Govt. services at all levels…!!! 8-)
A cast ironpot makes a heckava sauce. Make sure you oil it after using it.
Let’s not forget the space program. It’s taken 40-plus years for private industry to reproduce Alan Shepard’s first space flight.
ls at 132 says-”
Good godess, I have a science project going on in my kitchen!!! Ahhhhhh…I threw all kinds of stuff into a caste Iron pan…I’m ascared.”
ROFL that’s what cooking is all about!
Jonathan @ 139
Sorry- Elliott. duh. Thanks for the correction.
dmac @ 135
O…M…G…you don’t want to know…She laid an egg, I swear, on Easter Sunday last year!! She is 23. I’ve had her since she was 3 months old. She eats dog food!! Yes, I have “other” “entities”…in the barn…layin’ on the floor…it is like Dr. Doolittle over here…:} Wah, wah, wah….all day…spoiled rotten, I tell you!
GordonM says: August 24th, 2007 at 5:39 pm:
I didn’t mean to insult all boomers, or even all ex-hippies.
In California, I noticed a lot of the boomer and hippy generaton ten or fifteen years older than me go from being very radical and very pro social democracy when they were young and on the getting end, to being very conservative and even GOP when they got older and got on the tax paying end.
So, I have to admit that burns me. But I didn’t mean to imply it was true of all of that generation, even here in CA, even among those who went to one of the UC joints and got freebies to tha max, until they graduated and got very cheap.
How in the world can anyone expect to support a $12,000,000,000 a month war with tax cuts.
ccmask @ 144
…everytime, and my cast-iron pans too…!!! ;-)
dmac @ 134
then you think the cockatoo came first and not the egg…
Jonathan @ 112
Neither am I.
OK – considering it’s Friday night and I’m really just trying to have a good time after an insane week – what’s you opinion of Mendelson? (I’m really mostly a jazz fan – but my family’s into classical, so I, er, form opinions).
Yawn. It’s Friday night. Has anyone resigned yet?
Elliott @ 152
a cuckold dude’ll do.
Tithonia @ 137
It is a pain in the ***. You have to clean it with hot water, no soap (or it tastes like soap), but…when you cook with the cast iron pans (I got them from the thrift store, because they are very expensive and from my mother-in-law) what comes out is usually awesome. Cornbread is killer. I have a recipe. I’m interested in cooking over campfires. There are tons of cool recipes for that.
LS @ 131
You have an excuse – Chick Corea.
LS @ 132
Well what are the ingredients?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 125:
Oh dear, more confusion! Thank you Christy, but I think someone else’s misunderstanding must have somehow got compounded here. There is no confusion between me and Elliott. I have only ever posted as “Hmmm.”, never as Elliott. As I said @ 64, the other night someone else was posting as “Hmmm” in the same thread. Maybe the confusion entered in Eli @ 68 where the block-quoting made it look like it was Elliott who was reporting that. (I think you’re already clear that there was apparantly a second Elliott in this thread, see Elliott @ 22.)
I am heartily sorry if I have helped create confusion! Clarity is pleasurable.
Hmmm.
Frank Probst @ 154
Not that I’ve heard, but rumour has it Castro died.
Eli @ 133
And ponies. Everyone should get a pony.
Eli @ 133
Cash? Or would a check work out okay for you?
punaise @ 154
I think I’m glad you’re back *s*
wangdangdoodle @ 160
Don’t believe it. He’s like Jason.
Punaise! where you? and, McNerney up soon
GordonM @ 157
lol
Oklahoma kiddo @ 150
By sapping every other Dept’s budget, I’m certain every other Dept has had a budgetary freeze for the last 4 years at least…!!! Don’t quote me, tho…!!! ;-)
Hmmm. @ 157
Oh, great. I came here to get *away* from being blamed for everything…
Loo Hoo. @ 160
Direct deposit.
LS @ 156: I’d love the cornbread recipe. I like to bake mine in cast iron too. If it’s not too OT :)
Thank you, Valley Girl, for your succinct clarification @ 136!
Hmmm.
The airline industry has also suffered mightily under deregulation.
As to what the government does better? Any program members the Senate and the Congress partake of.
Since it’s Friday, my nephew is in the military and he did a rap mix to Lennon’s Imagine. Click on the link
FRAMING ISSUE
Do NOT call this privatization. Privatization is selling off Amtrak.
This is OUTSOURCING. Paying an outside vendor to perform tasks. This makes sense if the vendor has economies of scale or special capabilities. For the government outsourcing never makes sense in the former case–the government IS as big a scale as you can get.
GordonM @ 152
Well, you may have started an interminable thread.
I’ll just say Mendelssohn was a genius.
I love his music, each and every piece.
Eli @ 168:
I blame the formatting lameness of the blog engine, not you!
Hmmm.
rusty charlie @ 172
Welcome to the Lake!!!
Fried corn bread is far superior in a cast iron compared to non-stick. Real cornbread (no sugar please), done in the oven in cast iron, is sop in Oklahoma. And fried okra in cast iron? I’ve died and gone to heaven!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 150
Junya has got hisself a real special cr*dit card. You know, one where he gets to charge anything and everything his lil’ stone heart desires…and the bill always gets sent to us.
Postage due, of course!
Loo Hoo. @ 158
I took a “tube” I guess you would call it of croissant or cressent rolls and pressed it into a greased pan. I mixed a couple of eggs, sour cream, creole seasoning, garlic powder, onion powder, pepper, a little milk, and a bunch of cheddar cheese. I mixed it together, and poured it into the cast iron pan with broccoli that I steamed…it is currently “cooking” at 300F….We shall see…..if it fails, I’ll have a beer.
wesgpc @ 148
No sweat. I went to Cal when it was $250 / quarter. I lost a lot of friends for similar reasons. Hell, I still want to break the nose of my first college friend who turned to the dark side.
Someday, though, I’ll write up my rant about the whole generational thing. It’s not that it’s wrong, it’s that those who use it the most are those who refuse to acknowledge that people in their (say) 30s are different from people in their (say) 50s, and that difference is pretty well constant across generations.
then you think the cockatoo came first and not the egg…
My daughter cleared that up for me when she was about three. The egg came before the chicken, because breakfast (eggs) comes before dinner (chicken)!
Jonathan @ 175
Jonathan, I’m eclectic, as most here are, Mendelssohn was a genius!!!
my “imagine” video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EmK7T9YTsE
back in the good ol’ “don’t re-appoint him” days…
punaise @ 155
LOL! And Zowie! You’re in fine form after your vacation in Europe.
While we’re waiting, I wanted to point out that Darcy Burner’s fundraiser Jane told us about earlier has 952 donors, with $31,484.
So if you’ve got some spare change this week and want to prove that a trip by George Bush to the district can power-up the netroots and open our wallets, please click over and join me in contributing to a great candidate for Congress, Darcy Burner.
“Welcome to the Lake!!!”
Oh, i been here lots.
In the wrong hands, government is a very efficient tool for transfer of wealth from the many to the few.
We need to get the government back into decent hands….
jayackroyd @ 173
I loved your big post!
PW, this whole thing sounds like the “Life of Brian” movie: “And what have the Romans ever done for us?”
Roads
Aqueducts
Public sanitation . . .
Eli @ 167
No way your FDL friends will let you get away that easy *g*.
LS @ 180
Well, dang, pass it around, girl!
On the value of public utilities: In 1987, in Gainesville, FL, after living alone and being amazed at how cheap my electricity was, I one day called my local utility co. (Gainesville Regional Utilities) and asked for verification, not wanting to be stuck with a huge bill when a mistake was discovered. The CSR assured me that my bill was correct, and explained it to me. To paraphrase: “GRU is owned by the city. Therefore, it doesn’t need to make as much profit as a private utility. Second, what money it does make goes into city revenue, so taxes can be lower too.”
It’s a win-win. Cheaper utilities and lower taxes.
I have never since understood why there are any private utilities.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 178
Had catfish tonight . . . there’s a bunch I miss about California, but there’s no real fresh catfish there.
LS @ 179
you’re a practical person. *g*
Peterr @ 188
The “Brought peace” part, not so much.
Jerry;s up!
One thing that private industry has shown no sign of tackling is the clearance of landmines, a scourge in large areas of the world.
Loo Hoo. @ 181
and there’s the answer we’ve all been seeking, right in front of our noses.
rusty charlie @ 187
Sorry, I didn’t recognize ya, being a Charlie and all…!!!
GordonM says: August 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pm”
“people in their (say) 30s”
Yes, let;s say that, indeed! I wish! I certainly didn’t want to imply I was still in my 30s! That would be dishonest, and I would be so busted sooner or later.
Tithonia @ 170
No problem. It is not “sweet” though. It is traditional Texas cornbread.
This is “Granny’s” cornbread:
1 cup corn meal
“almost” 1/2 cup flour
1 teaspoon salt
3 teaspoons baking powder
1 egg
1 cup milk
Cast iron pan 10′ at 400.
Now, the trick is, cook a bunch of bacon first in the pan, till there is a bunch of grease. Take out the bacon. Put the pan in the 400 oven till it is “smoking”, then pour the batter in and cook about 20-25 minutes. Killer. You can add Jalepenos or cheese if you want. It is not sweet cornbread.
Street lights.
RonD @ 192
Enron
rusty charlie @ 184
Nice video. Thanks for sharing. Those 16 words is definitely his legacy.
well, i’m probably spelling it wrong, but medellsson, is way alright with me………..gordon and jonathan…..it kills me, my favorite classical cd is escaping my memory, and itunes files on my computer is only telling me divertimento for two oboes, etc……..shit……
i’m thinkin’ it’s brahms…….but can’t find the cd……funny how you take something for granted and forget who did it…….favorite for over 10 years and can’t tell ya……duh………
ls- cast iron all the way…….treat them gently and they will cook all things well……
Elliott @ 195
Thanks for the “spew”!!!! Now, I have to actually be practical to rescue the keyboard!!
PeteCO @ 203
!!
Mass Transit: when properly funded!
Thanks for the recipe LS!
LS @ 202
Cool. Now if I can figure out how to replace the “almost” 1/2 cup flour, I can cook it for my Mom (gluten intolerant, and 93 – I’m now taking care of them).
Hot Diggity…
There’s nothing like profit driven corporation whose answerable only to their stock holders to illuminate the great unwashed how they are going to take care of us so much better….
Peterr @ 190
Love Monty Python. Here’s the clip of “And what have the Romans ever done for us?”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BrO…..mp;search=
On public utilities: the one I work at has a regulated side (the ‘utility’ side) and a non-regulated side (the ‘energy market’ side). We can’t – by company policy, as well as state and federal rule – talk directly to the other side of the house. Regulation hasn’t completely disappeared, in other words.
Amtrak worked better before it was semi-privatized. So did the USPS. The people running both want the government – us – to fund their operations, but they don’t want to provide all the services that they’re being paid for. (The carriers at the USPS work ten hour days (or longer), but the managers only have to work eight.)
If you want to win over some Independents and swing Republican voters for a nice majority in congres in ‘08… you need to show those voters Dems will fight for something, anything!
GordonM @ 211
That is what Granny told me, “almost”, so I just “almost” measure 1/2 cup. It always comes out great. BTW, the Science Project, came out great!!! Remind me near T’Giving, and I have Granny’s great “cornbread dressing”…;}
LS @ 202
Yum!
PW (who showed up late to the thread as usual)
juslin @ 51
You would naturally think of that on a Friday, right?
How about foreign relations and treaties to enable international commerce?
How about a justice system which is a little less biased towards the highest bidder than private systems could ever be?
How about food & drug quality control…before a lot of people die?
The list is almost endless.
Jonathan @ 69
Ha. You’re funny. That would NEVER happen here in America!
Silly wabbit.
Peter VE @ 188
“transfer of wealth from the many to the few” or from the few to the many.
Government apparently should not generally be used just to transfer wealth. Our American experience, our American Dream is to be Free and to only use government as a tool to preserve that and to help us achieve even greater possibilities (such as through public funding for basic research or to build highways).
The better government programs are the ones which are benign and benefit everyone equally well, usually on a first come first serve basis. The Post Office has been cited as a good example. Net neutrality is another great example of something in that category. We need it for everyone.
I think where Liberals tend to split off from Progressives, and this is really just my opinion, is in the use of standing programs, like Food Stamps, to generate change for whomever qualifies as needing that assistance. I suggest Progressives prefer their ‘programs’ to be built-in or completely transparent, such as the Progressive tax system. I don’t prefer that one myself, but it is obvious to everyone and used by everyone without a separate government agency.
Another very divisive issue is school integration. Early-on busing was used, but later the integration moved to higher education and was promoted through paperwork and was a lot less intrusive. It has also been proposed by several state’s supreme courts that funding in primary education should be more equal (done on a state-wide basis, rather than by school district) and that would be altogether invisible to the student. Apparently the SCOTUS has also decided that’s not enough to achieve integration. That back and forth has left us stranded in the middle, looking for a good solution to achieving the goal without busing which is overly messy or just equal funding which is under-effective. Someone needs to suggest a great middle-ground or we should reacquaint ourselves with Brown v. Board of Ed. despite what Justices Roberts and Alito say.
How about the rural electric cooperatives. Most of rural america, in fact what eventually became suburban america, would not have electricity if not for REA and the New Deal power programs. Mention coops today and most people go Huh? The government successes are so taken for granted and part of people’s daily lives, they never stop to think.
But unfortunately, that brings up a “dark” side which we’d rather not think about. Government water programs. These have been so successful, we’ve resettled large parts of the country which are in reality, uninhabitable. E.g. Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, large parts of California, etc. But some things dare not even be mentioned in polite company.
GordonM @ 181
It’s actually quite simple. There are some people whose politics are egocentric to the degree that they always gravitate to whoever will give THEM the most for the least on their part. It’s why so many people like Condy Rice, Gonzalez, Supreme Court Justice Cklarence Thomas…switch over from “affirmative action” kids…to the Dark Side. Who would have guessed that Clarence Thomas once was so much of a lefty that he named his son (from his first marriage) Jamal Adeen?!!
The wealthy kids want to reduce the competition from the “cowering masses” and thus are in favor of higher tuitions and privatization. But those “egoverts” who aren’t so wealthy complain about high tuitions, or conservative policies until they reach the stage where their own interests invert. They are true to “their principals” but only when you realize that their principles are “ME”.
Years ago on a 60 Minutes episode IIRC the highest performing group of students in elementary and high school were those attending US Armed Services schools both here and abroad. These were totally government run and not privatized.
The teacher to student rario was very low by public school comparison. I will always remember that news program becasue it totally convinced me that “profit” will never provide us the best education available to all in the USA. It’s unlikely to save money, and the driving force for most strategic program decisions will be to resist spending money no matter what.
Today, the privatization of the prison system I think stands as the prime example of the best a corporate run program will give. It totally stinks.
One note on this prison topic. Sen. Voinovich (R-Ohio) has a brother whose construction company specializes in building prisons.
s/Romans/government
s/Reg/Grover
“And what have the Romans ever given us in return?!”
“The aquaduct?”
“What?”
“The aquaduct.”
“Oh yeah, yeah, they did give us that, that’s true.”
“And sanitation.”
“Yes, the sanitation, remember what the city used to be like, Reg.”
“Yes OK, I’ll grant you, the aquaduct and sanitation are two things the Romans HAVE done.”
“And the roads!”
“Well yes obviously the roads, I mean the roads go without saying, don’t they! But apart from the sanitation, the aquaduct and the roads…”
“Irrigation! Medicine! Education!”
“Yeah, all right, fair enough.”
“And the wine…”
“Yes, that’s something we’d really miss if the Romans left.”
“Public baths!”
“And it’s safe to walk the streets at night now Reg.”
“Yes, they certainly know how to keep order. Only ones who could in a place like this!”
“All right. But APART from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?!”
“Brought peace”
-Life of Brian
Education. No private school educates everyone who lives in the district, no matter what the ability or disability possessed by the child, provides transportation, feeds them, offers social services like counseling, offers extracurricular activities AND sports teams that often unite the community.
And no private school could possibly do that while paying union wages to its fully qualified faculty (many of them pay less than public schools and/or use less qualified teachers)…. and for $6-10K a year per child (free to parents, btw, whether they pay taxes or not). Impossible. When you read about private schools which take hard-to-educate children, like those who are profoundly mentally handicapped, they’re charging $100-200K a year. And most private schools, of course, don’t take special needs children at all.
Higher education– the US has a very good higher education system, and the states do most of the educating at a fairly low cost to the student and to the taxpayer too. Community colleges provide both college and vocational education for $50-80 a credit hour. There are many private schools, and some even take students who didn’t do great in high school… but they’re charging 10 times more.
I have nothing against private schools– went to parochial schools AND two private colleges– but there’s no way that anyone can argue (rightly, that is) that private schools are 10 times better– and no private school even attempts to educate all students as public schools do. We couldn’t privatize our education system even if we wanted to… and we don’t.