Joe Lieberman’s bullheaded nincompoopery aside, there hasn’t been a lot to laugh at the last few days. (H/T to Digby…hilarious.)
Juan Cole reports that rumors of military coup planning in Iraq are growing louder and more detailed. With the latest NIE selectively declassified and released, it certainly seems that the public protestations of Bush support for the current government are cover for something — whether it is the president’s ass or al-Maliki’s is anyone’s guess.
There is certainly something in the air, if Time has already begun the public kabuki speculation on the new Iraqi leadership lottery. (via Laura Rozen) Or is that simply the echo of backstage backstabbing from some of the usual suspects tied to the WH. Oooops…well, let’s face it: an independent group trying to topple an allied government with a WH okay is, well…it’s pretty much news. Let’s see if this gets the same fairminded and evenhanded coverage that Speaker Pelosi’s Presidentially-approved trip to Syria got, shall we?
Then again, maybe it’s just the ordered absence of commentary from the communications office at NHTSA that has the Beltway press in a tizzy. Talk about your overdeveloped sense of importance at an agency where transparency for public safety’s sake is the freaking point of their existence. (Huge H/T to plainjane for the link.)
Perhaps it is simply the “rats from a sinking ship feeling” that one gets when two civil rights division heads at the DOJ quit their jobs within the same month. As Paul Kiel points out, here’s an abbreviated high-level resignation tally for the Gonzales DOJ thus far, 2007: former Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, his chief of staff Michael Elston, White House liaison Monica Goodling, chief of staff Kyle Sampson, Acting Associate Attorney General William Mercer, and Bradley Schlozman. But hey, morale is swell and everyone is just pleased as punch about the job Gonzales is doing, dontcha know. *cough*
I’m all a-tingle at this proclamation (h/t to twolf1 for the link): George Bush has declared September 17 – 23, 2007 to be Constitution Week wherein he encourages “Federal, State, and local officials, as well as leaders of civic, social, and educational organizations, to conduct ceremonies and programs that celebrate our Constitution and reaffirm our rights and responsibilities as citizens of our great Nation.”
Maybe Laura and Jenna can take some time away from the nuptial planning to write another children’s book entitled “Painful Incongruity, Or, Why Momma Needs More Migraine Medicine.”
Or perhaps they could just read this to W after one of his mountain biking jaunts. To wit:
…Except that real men don’t go to court. The Bush administration, easily the manliest in recent American history, believed only weaklings, traitors and other liberal Democrats could be so naive as to believe you deal with a captured terrorist by reading him his Miranda rights. That, they told us, was evidence of ”pre-9/11 thinking.” But everything changed, they said, on that day, and the old rules, which had stood the nation through revolution, Civil War, Great Depression and social upheaval, no longer applied.
So they threw Padilla into a Navy brig instead. He was charged with no crime and, according to his lawyers, was drugged and left chained in painful positions in a tiny cell under a light that never went out. No clock, no windows, no bedding, no mattress and, for the first two years, no lawyer.
When civil libertarians demanded to know how you could justify such treatment of a man who had never been charged with a crime, they were told President Bush did not have to bother with such niceties. By declaring Padilla an “enemy combatant,” Bush could imprison him indefinitely and never have to explain himself.
That bears repeating. The president arrogated unto himself a power ordinarily associated with tyrants, to impose indefinite detention on anyone he chose. And from the people there arose only the sound of crickets chirping in midnight woods….
But the irony is that this victory [in court] utterly destroys the government’s claim that we have to shred the Constitution in order to save it….
That’s only an excerpt, though. Read him the whole damn thing. And, while you’re at it, read him this one, too — it’s what real men who have faced real combat learn: that life is in the small things that seem an eternity away, and that it is the love that pulls you back, not the hate.
Perhaps Sir Harry Paget Flashman can pull his head out of his biking short covered arse and realize that this isn’t just about salving his wounded widdle ego. But then, what the hell do I know, I’m just a blogger. (Huge thanks to Jay Rosen — wonderful piece. Do read this link.)
(Photo of soldiers from HQ Company, 2nd Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division forming an outer cordon during a search via Soldier’s Media Center.)



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Good morning!
Wow. My first First in a long time!
so close
Morning all — coffee is brewing and I’m trying to wake myself up. It’s going to be a scorcher here today. How is everyone this morning?
Lindy, good to see you. How are your tomato plants doing?
Good morning Christy!
Smgumby @ 3
Yeah, but not close enough! Of course, by the time I read the post, there will be 25 or more posts ahead of me. Then, by the time I read those, 25 posts more. Can’t keep up with you guys!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
Producing tomatoes. All things considered, I’m having a pretty good crop. Had some zuchini too.
Lucky 7 for the man with the hats.
We’re apparently heading for that Ngo Dinh Diem moment. A US-encouraged coup.
The reason. al Maliki’s invitation for Ahmedinjad to visit and meet with him in Baghdad.
Millineryman @ 8
Ouch, sorry MM.
More on the Coup from CNN
Well so much for thatLindy @ 10
No apology needed. It’s all about a little fun.
That Jay Rosen piece is a keeper. Quite the roundup of bloggers he’s got there, with FDL up as one of the first big examples.
I almost spilled my coffee when I read “I can’t link to his ‘05 piece because, according to Diane Lamb, a librarian there, “Skube does not permit his columns to be available in the online public archives of the News & Record.”
Skube’s a fine example of journalism, all right.
Well, the Juan Cole piece has me a bit depressed already. I have heard rumors of giving up on the whole “democracy for Iraq” thing on and off for a while now. So THIS is what “spreading freedom” looks like.
Ahhhh…coffee is done brewing…brb
Christy you were great on Thom Hartman. Go Girl!
A coup would really have to be a clean on put over by the W. He owns Iraq and their government is hand picked by his punks.
Buy Maliki is sounding a bit too independent like Noriega. If he keeps talking to his neighbors over there and not with W on the Vid conference he’s gonna be sent packing. I think he’s toast.
He’ll probably be offed rather than replaced in some quasi democratic process. After he is caput they can install any sort of interim puppet gov a la CIA trained to behave (for a while).
Why do all our CIA trained patsies bite the hands that fed them anyway?
Morning, Christy et al. It’s warm and humid in the Southern Tier. Great post. Great article from the New York Times. Made me cry into my coffee, which comes from the very sweet folks who ply their coffee-making trade downstairs from where I work.
SanderO at 16 — Thanks, much. I love doing Thom’s show. :) (Let’s try watching the “offed” sorts of comments though, shall we? Just a friendly reminder…)
Good Morning Christy, I can see all ready it’s going to be a fine day here at the Lake!
thanks!
Toby at 17 — I know. I thought that article on the outward bound program for vets was very well done. And I thought it was something that a number of our readers who are vets would enjoy as well. I know what members of my family have gone through over the years with their own battle scars…so that particular article hit a soft spot with me, too.
Peterr at 13 — I caught that same bit when I read Jay’s piece. Priceless. Clearly Mr. Skube is a microfiche purist or something. *g*
I am not advocating anything.. but it seems to me that a lot of people in the Iraqi government are being killed and assassinated. I see that this is real scenario possibility and not outside of our basic black ops tool kit.
Good morning everyone! Christy, here’s something to laugh at. Or it might cause you to hurl lightning from the sky at me. Either way, I’m firing the first shot in the coming college football wars…Go Blue!
West Virginia is number 1!
SanderO at 22 — I knew you weren’t — I’m just say to be careful with that sort of thing because as we all know, we live in interesting times. And that sort of thing can be misconstrued by someone who wants to do so. That’s all…
Warner the warmonger is now calling for an end to the war… so this may be the tearing of the fabric of right wing support.
But they need to spin this as NOT a defeat… or another Nam cut and run op.
The spin docs are whirling big time to figure this one out… how to get off the train wreck without getting killed.
Send in Ignatief… hahaha
Twisted Martini @ 23
Ewwwwww, football.:)
SanderO @ 22
The deaths of government leaders is par for the course during a civil war these days, and not necessarily because the CIA is involved. When you’ve got a multi-sided internal conflict, as we do in Iraq today, there are lots of folks on each side who can get angry with just about anyone in power … and who can lay their hands on the means to express their anger in permanent fashion.
Oh Twisted — dammit. I thought you were talking about football rankings there for a minute and my heart skipped a beat. *G*
Great post Christy. The NYT article was inspiring.
GWB and the neocon chickenhawks remind me of certain mall cops. Thinking if they can just have an excuse to use their guns the real cops will finally give them some respect. Maybe some day even let them join the force. (And I mean no disrespect to mall cops.)
Well, Christy, there COULD be a coup.
But some questions arise, if bush goes a-Saigoning after his own purple-fingered democracy.
No coup will happen without bush signing off on it.
I doubt if even the MSM will depict any overthrow of the Iraqi government as “spontaneously generated” by “the people of Iraq”. It will BE a bushCo coup.
Then, who is going to take over?
Chalabi is like genital lesions; hard to get rid of, and always hanging on.
I think Allawi would be more likely, but he’s kind of damaged goods too, at this point.
Bush seems to be tilting toward the Sunnis, but I don’t think he can afford to install some Sunni strongman. The Shia would go wild.
This is a BIG problem for junior. He has to placate the Shia to some degree, AND find a Shiite strongman that will protect the Sunnis from the Shia majority. I don’t think it can be a Kurd. Again, with 60% of population, the Shia won’t stand for NOT having a Shiite leader as big dog.
The difficulty is that Iraq is now nothing but a bunch of angry, rapacious, factions, with all parties having an agenda which is practically irreconcilble with the notion of a unified Iraq.
The constitutionally-mandated-by-the-end-of-the-year referendum for Kirkuk is like a turdwagon bearing down on bush. It’s the reason that the Kurds supericially (very superficially) bought into the “greater Iraq” bullshit, and I’m not sure that there is anything that bush can offer the Kurds to get them to postpone it. Holding that referendum may be a red-line issue for them.
And this situation is, of course, totally due to bush and his asshole buddies’ savage stupidity in pulling the trigger.
But the dems had better start reminding people of that, or the repubs will capture the “conventional wisdom” flag, and present this madness as:
“We were getting on top of it, but the Iraqi government has funked the job, and it’s all THEIR fault.”
In america, it’s all about public opinion, and right now, the people we worked so hard to get elected, are tanking like the Chicago Black Sox.
It’s double sad that they’re doing this, because it gives asshole the chance to get out of Dodge and lay the shitmire on their heads.
It will mean that they’re snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again, but what the fuck is the democratic leadership about, if not that? (See: Al Gore)
And I can’t tell you all how disappointed I am that no one noticed “bullheaded nincompoopery” — it was a sort of backhanded homage to Lieberman’s Bull Moose spokesmouth. Maybe I’m tired this morning, but it made me giggle…perhaps it was too obscure?
“…rumors of military coup planning in Iraq are growing louder and more detailed…”
So that is what Turdblossom’s departure from the WH is really all about. I guess the new job pays more.
I wonder if Holy Joe is going to endorse Obama? Obama is the only Presidential candidate who is willing to go after Ossama in the country he is at which is Pakistan not Iraq!
Holy Joe I’m sure knows that Israel will never be safe unless something is done about Nuclear Pakistan now, cause while Bush fiddles as Bagdad burns Al Quieda is taking over Pakistan.
The Prime Minister wanted to declare martial law, but Bush stopped him because it might look bad.
Yes it would look very bad for Bush if a nuclear power might be destabilsed by the 9/11 terrorists while Bush wastes his time chasing pawns as the Queen gets into postion.
I didn’t even click the link since Lieberman is dead to me, and I had seen the Bullshit Moose hammered at Atrios’s place.
The ‘Neers should be real good this year, you should have lots to cheer about!
The Kurds are a big problem because they want self determination and the Kurds in Turks want some of the action too.
They have a lot of oil to boot and so they don’t need the rest of the Iraqis and if the USA would support their right of self determination they could live happily ever after (if they share that oil with their uncle).
But of course Turkey won’t have that and Israel is Turkey’s mistress and the two of them are the big powers in the ME along with Iran.
Iran should probably annex parts of Iraq and the that leaves the last bit. They would have to do a big population move like they did when the Moslem people were sent to Pakistan from India. So you can have three autonomous states. Oh the oil… I forgot the oil…
Can’t give that to Iran… No way Jose (Padilla). It’s not that withdrawing will take 18 months… it’s we will miss the fight. Tough guys don’t want away from bar fights until every bar stool is broken and there is blood all over the place.
Christy, “nincompoopery” is too hard for me to get my brain around until the second cup of coffee.
I think they will resurrect Allawi. He’s a secularist that everyone over there can hate and we can love more and more. The Israelis will prefer him. No?
btw, in case folks missed the announcement yesterday — Jerry McNerney will be on to chat with everyone at 6 pm PT/9 pm ET today. Howie will be here as well to lead the discussion. Thought some folks would be interested…
There is a Florida Reserve outfit being posted to DC for A SOLID YEAR in something called Operation Noble Eagle.
Talk about “manuvers”, what is that about?
The station WESH (I believe) posted the story on its website—I think it was Ft. Lauderdale. Nice story about how the familes are glad their folk aren’t going to Iraq. The unit is trained in ground-to-air defense systems.
You’d think a place like DC would have enough regulars doing that job. What do they need with 1 yrs worth of reservists?
Christy, Christy, Christy.
It’s not just about protecting Bush’s ego.
It’s also about protecting Billy Kristol’s ego. And Michael Ledeen’s. And John Bolton’s.
dude at 38 — The missile defense folks get rotated in and out of Afghanistan and Iraq, too. Which means the folks stationed in DC aren’t exempt from that duty — and when they get rotated overseas, someone else has to rotate in to air defense for DC.
Good morning from L.A. Since wrapping up my last free lance job I’ve been hiking & camping up & down the Left Coast- from Shell Beach CA to Whidbey Island WA. Home now, & catching up on FDL posts…
May I thank you all, especially you, Christy, for the continued excellence of the writing & commentary here. Always the place I visit 1st when I’ve been away…
P.S.- a little of the folding coming FDL’s way shortly via PayPal in appreciation of all you do.
Does anybody think that the Vietnam comparison might have been pointing to an escalation in troop size – ie a draft – by the next President?
PW at 39 — Well, for my money, Mr. Moustache Love and all his pals can defend their own honor with something else.
Marie at 41 — Thanks very much. Appreciate it!
Thanks Christy— I guess the families in Florida were just happy in the short term about “not going to Iraq” or some hot theatre.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
707!
Christy Hardin Smith: with a WH okay
If I may, I’d like to point out that it is inconceivable that the current Iraqi Parliament has a genuine ok and that the ok being perceived is a feeble attempt at trying to cover up the fact that democracy in Iraq has blown up in the faces of the Neocons.
Why?
Al-Maliki, al-Hakim, et al are not and have never been supported by the US and the sure as hell are not stooges like Chalabi, Allawi, et al.
During the twenty plus years prior to the deposing and hanging of Saddam Hussein, these men, through their groups, namely al-Dawa and Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (now SIIC), fought to Islamicize Iraq while exiled and based in Iran and Syria.
Until recently, al-Dawa was officially categorized as a terrorist group.
So, again, this ok is just another case of WH spin.
The WH could not have been pleased by empowering al-Dawa which suicide bombed the US and French Embassies in 1983.
The WH could not have been pleased by empowering al-Dawa for whose sake Hizbollah took hostages in order to release the Kuwait 17.
The terrorist group that claimed responsibility for the bombing of the U.S. Marine compound and the French military headquarters here may be a front for an exiled Iraqi Shiite opposition party based in Iran, in the view of a number of Arab and western diplomatic sources.
Authorities in Kuwait say their questioning of suspects in the recent bombing there of the U.S. and French embassies indicates a clear link between Islamic Jihad, a shadowy group that says it carried out the Beirut attacks, and Al Dawa Islamiyah, the main source of resistance to the government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
Al Dawa (The Call) has been outlawed in Iraq, where it wants to establish a fundamentalist Islamic state to replace the secular Baath Socialist government of Saddam Hussein, who is a Sunni Moslem.
It draws its strength from the large Shiite population in southern Iraq. Thousands of its most militant members were expelled to Iran in 1980 before the outbreak of the Iranian-Iraqi war and joined Al Dawa there. But it also has a large following in Lebanon among Iraqi exiles and sympathetic Lebanese Shiites.
While Al Dawa operates out of Tehran, it is not clear whether its activities abroad are under direct Iranian control or merely have Iran’s tacit acceptance.
The reference was to 17 Shiite extremists held in Kuwait in connection with 1983 bombings of the American and French embassies that killed six and injured 80. Most of the 17 belonged to Dawa, an Iranian-backed fundamentalist group. From the time the first American hostage was seized in Beirut in 1984, the Hezbollah in Lebanon had repeatedly insisted on the Shiites’ release as a condition for freeing Americans. Some of the 17 are reportedly relatives of some of the kidnapers in Beirut.
But several groups, including the Iran-based Shi’ite group, the Supreme Assembly for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, say they will boycott the conference because it is dominated by the INC and orchestrated by the US.
Can replacing your puppet government with different puppets really be called a coup? While the Iraqi government was installed using the stagecraft of an election, it’s always been pretty clear that the government was made up in the image the Bush government wanted, not a truly elected government.
Ever since installing al-Maliki we have dictated what they should do, and it’s because al-Maliki can’t or won’t deliver on our political agenda that there’s now open talk of replacing him. We may pretend Iraqis chose their government, and certainly our compliant corporate media pushes that lie, but our actions are summed up as, “Dance, puppet, dance!”
This reminds me of the Soviet puppets in Afghanistan, which looks awfully familiar:
The Soviets left in humiliation, and Najibullah ended up hanging from a lamp post.
Ooops — gang, I meant 6 pm PT/9 pm ET for the McNerney chat. My bad. Will edit my comment above…
dude @ 39
Well either Bush gots some real intelligence about another airplane attack, or Bush needs to make people think another terror attack is coming because governing is so easy when people are afraid.
Twisted Martini @ 23
Funny! My newest issue of Sports Illustrated has Nick Saban on the cover-the savior of Alabama football. Pssht! Mercenary, more like. If they don’t beat Auburn this year he’ll be under the bus.
Roll Tide!
Regardless of this war, it is not a bad idea for everyone in the US to do a couple of years of “service to the people”. I think that we need to consider this and many could work on “socially responsible” projects as well as serving in the armed forces.
Smgumby @ 14
and if i hear one more american blame al Maliki or the iraqi pariliment for the lack of progress on what americans have told them to do, or think they should do – i swear i’m going to scream.
There has been a lot of coverage of the $15-million pro-war ad campaign targeting the districts of wavering Republican congressmen. But most of the coverage has been of the content of the ads and of speculation regarding their likely effectiveness. There has been little coverage regarding who is paying for the ads and why, other than to give the name of the group: “Freedom’s Watch. Thus far, all I’ve found is this by Philip Weiss at Mondoweiss claiming that the group has a large pro-Israel sponsorship.
SanderO @ 52
Is there an echo in here:)
Morning, all! About to make my own cup of coffee. And here in southern California, it’s *finally* cooling down after a few weeks of heat&humidity.
Is it terrible of me to be at least grateful all the talk is still on Iraq? For a few moments when reading this, I thought Ira*n* was the subject (!). Hopefully none of this is a distraction from Iran, either.
Anyway, off to the brewing, back in a few!
GeorgeSimian @ 43
That might be the only explanation that would explain why Bush is suddenly comparing Iraq to Viet Nam after he has resisted all such comparisons for years.
Operation Noble Eagle: ONE. More movement towards the unitary executive? They try to be so clever with their names.
And may I say how horrified I am to have the missle defense of our capital city in the hands of inexperienced people. Heckava job.
Great round-up. I got my morning cup of coffee going already…
things come undone @ 57
It sure wouldn’t be because he’s stupid now would it?
selise at 52 — Yes, it’s a bit arrogant to be spouting off about the Maliki failures considering that we have George Bush in the WH and people still living in formaldehyde-laced unsafe shanty trailers two years after Katrina, isn’t it?
Also, I missed this particular article in putting this together, but this adds to the discussion from yesterday on the refugee and humanitarian crisis that we are creating throughout the Middle East. To say that things are a volatile mess at the moment is a massive understatement.
What did we expect? This time will go down in history as US sponsored Witch Trials brought to you by a Good versus Evil Fundamentalist President. (Glenn Greenwald has written a book on this.)
“And from the people there arose only the sound of crickets chirping in midnight woods….”
As I recall, the blogs were hardly silent. And on the street, no one was really happy about it, even some of the smarter members of the loyal Bushies grudgingly admiittd their trepidation about these royal powers.
Change that to “And from the mainstream media, there arose only the sound of crickets chirping.”
The blogs have proven their democratic worth, but even the bloggers among us still perceive the mainstream media as the voice of “The People.”
So when the media is silent, “The Peoiple” are deemed silent.
Which was not the case, the real public discourse was very vocal, even downright vitriolic at times, and rightly so. But just because the media refused to trumpet the proper warnings, does not mean “The People” were as complacent. This is just one more step in the process of spreading the 4th Estate around to multiple parties, so they can check and balance each other’s news coverage.
Slightly OT, but does anyone else here get the funny feeling that John Warner could dive headfirst into the Republican side of the Presidential race and surface very quickly with a commanding majority?
If he threw his hat into the ring, then barnstormed around the country in his bi-plane giving speeches, he would be the top Republican in short order.
Just food for thought…
Hi New here
Horsehead @ 64
Hi Horsehead welcome to the Lake
Hi Horsehead — welcome to the Lake. :)
puppethead: While the Iraqi government was installed using the stagecraft of an election, it’s always been pretty clear that the government was made up in the image the Bush government wanted, not a truly elected government.
Installed?
How so?
The UN saw no reason to re-run the election.
More importantly, the current Shia dominate government is what millions of Iraqis had wanted for decades while being ruled under the iron fist of SH.
The image the Bush government wanted?
Perhaps you should do some reading and more thinking?
Iraq: Bush’s Islamic Republic. By Peter W. Galbraith NYRB, Volume 52, Number 13 August 11, 2005
[snip]
When President Bush spoke to the nation on June 28, he did not mention Iran’s rising influence with the Shiite-led government in Baghdad. He did not point out that the two leading parties in the Shiite coalition are pursuing an Islamic state in which the rights of women and religious minorities will be sharply curtailed, and that this kind of regime is already being put into place in parts of Iraq controlled by these parties. Nor did he say anything about the almost unanimous desire of Kurdistan’s people for their own independent state.
Instead, President Bush depicted the struggle in Iraq as a battle between the freedom-loving Iraqi people and terrorists. Without the sacrifices of the American servicemen and -women, and the largesse of the US taxpayer, the terrorists could win. As Bush put it, “The only way our enemies can succeed is if we forget the lessons of September 11—if we abandon the Iraqi people to men like Zarqawi.”
[snip]
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa (”Call,” in English) of Iraq’s Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian. Both parties have military wings, and SCIRI’s Badr Corps has grown significantly from the five thousand fighters that harassed Saddam’s regime from Iran in the decades before the war; it now works closely with Iraq’s Shiite interior minister, until recently the corps’ commander, to provide security and fight Sunni Arab insurgents.
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq’s relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not “of the book,” such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam’s fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq’s American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
Horsehead @ 64
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here:)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 38
You got THAT right! I know he’s new to the job, but I thought he was strong-minded and not easily stampeded.
Greetings Horsehead! Hope you’ll share your thoughts and ideas with us.
George Bush has declared September 17 – 23, 2007 to be Constitution Week wherein he encourages “Federal, State, and local officials, as well as leaders of civic, social, and educational organizations, to conduct ceremonies and programs that celebrate our Constitution and reaffirm our rights and responsibilities as citizens of our great Nation.”
Help me out here. Am I supposed to celebrate the *original* Constitution, or the new and
destroyedimproved one?raven @ 69
Aren’t you’re a bright ray of sunshine this morning, raven . . .
*g*
raven @ 69
Raven, yer crackin me up here.
Lindy at 68 — I think it is easy to know what you think, and hard to get it across clearly in a soundbite that can’t be misquoted and/or misused in a snippet for a news story. That is a skill that takes a long while to learn and, in my limited contact with McNerney, he truly isn’t a “sound bite” kinda guy, which I rather like frankly. So I’m willing to see his explanation before I start passing judgment. I know how much work it is for me to formulate anything I say for a radio or teevee 10 minute spot — I can’t imagine having to condense it into a two sentence quote that can’t be miscontrued every single time I open my mouth. Ya know?
raven @ 61
Your such an optimist
TarheelDem @ 9
IIRC, after Diem’s assassination, we had 9 more years of warfare in the middle of a civil war. Dog help us if THAT pattern hold true.
things come undone @ 66
Thought you might need a North Dakota connection-oh and Bush sucks.
SanderO: “Until every barstool is broken and there is blood all over the place…”
We’re sho’ nuff gettin’ there.
GeorgeSimian: That about the draft is a good question. I likes it. :o)
How about we ask ALL the candidates; if they will call for re-instating the draft, if they’re elected?
Let’s talk about seeing some fatcats sons and daughters sweating the bounce of the ping-pong balls. :o)
Which reminds me: Mitt Romney has FIVE strapping, military-age sons who’ve never pulled a day in the military. One of them even has a blogsite where he’s going after Hillary for wanting to leave Iraq. I’m not at all sure she really does, or will, but hearing this bullshit from a rich, entitled, little 101st Fighting Keyboarder, needs to be snarked at.
raven
Read yesterday that Athens has had 13 days of 100 degree weather this month.
Article said the average for Athens in August is 1 such day.
Sympathies.
P.S. We’ve had some very pleasant, coolish days in Connecticut this month.
raven @ 56
Key word here is “this”, just before “war”, take that one word out and you get the sane explanation for why Americans might balk at public service, because someone would translate them into soldiers for another war.
Consider the national guard as that service organization you suggest, just like those kids never expected to fight a war for oil in a foriegn land.
Until we know there won’t be another warmongering administration coming down the pike, why would any of us volunteer for public service, if they can casually turn that service into war, with a few well-placed lies?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 62
some days i have a hard time believing what we have done. is there a bigger humanitarian crisis in the world today? and although we created it, we want to blame the iraqis for it? the least we can do is acknowledge that it is our political failures that have created this mess.
hope everyone has listened or read amy goodman’s outstanding interview with nir rosen.
Kindlingstick @ 67,
There’s fantasy propaganda and then there’s reality. The UN as arbiter of what’s proper? The US has veto power over anything the UN does. Same thing happened with the Soviets and Afghanistan, the UN could do nothing because the Soviet Union also had veto power.
As for Bush’s claims he wanted a democracy, hogwash. The Bush government has always wanted a puppet regime to do their bidding, like turning over the oil industry to private corporations and not resisting a permanent US military presence. The Bush government has a lot of experience using the motion of elections to legitimize their actions, but don’t believe the outcome wasn’t rigged. Care about democracy? That’s just lip service meant for domestic consumption to keep us from questioning what’s really going on.
“The UN saw no reason to re-run the election…”
You bet not. Were they going to send a mission back in, to serve for target duty? They’re talking about doing it now, but I’d like to have the contract for the building they’re going to need, to survive there.
Also, events may start moving at a pace that will preclude anyone coming INTO Iraq.
Except, maybe the Turks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 75
Yeah, yeah. I SAID I would be here *g*
Horsehead @ 78 I drove through South Dakota last summer are you still having a drought or are you getting flooded like the midwest?
JEP @ 81
My point was that I have been making the same point.
CHS @ 75
Good thought, and well said. It is just as hard to ask a good question when talking to politicians.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
So damn much misery inflicted on the world, all in the name of “honor.”
Christy Hardin Smith @62: Maliki failures
Failures?
Al-Maliki, al-Hakim, et al have been fighting to Islamicize Iraq for over the last two decades.
Since 2003, `Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities’ (above) and you write of `Maliki failures’?
Anyone who writes of `Maliki failures’ has not done their homework and learned of the history and nature of the al-Dawa and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
You are buying into the WH spin which depicts al-Maliki as a failure.
Kindlingstick at 88 — Go back and re-read what I wrote at 62. Either you misread or you are deliberately misconstruing my comment to make a point that I already made.
http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/12_week.gif
The hot, dry wrath of God? If not, this is very selective global warming…
Also, the White Elephant stampede has accelerated, with Renzi resigning, maybe we will see many more heading for The Elephant Graveyard (K-Street.)
Kindlingstick @ 88
i don’t think christy is buying any WH spin – she was refering to hearing others talkin about his “failures”.
things come undone @ 85
I’m in the northeast-no drought here but southwest is usually pretty dry. We had the big flood and fire here in 97 that made the national news-really devestating-but we had a good FEMA back then-not a horse judge-Grand Forks North Dakota
raven @ 86
Which I agree with, wholeheartedly, as long as there is no impending warlord aiming for the Presidency, who can convert that service into war. Don’t disagree at all with public service, but would not want to sign my children up for it in this situation.
JEP @ 95
I’m just not sure you can make “mandatory universal service” provisional.
There are plenty of things to be done on a national scale for “service”, such as WPA type projects… rebuild america… work in hospitals or schools… peace corps types of postings. It need not be military based.
‘Stick: you talked about “real power in Iraq”, and you left out the name “Moqtada Al Sadr”.
You just lost real credibility on here. :o)
So Bush plans to celebrate the constitution without actually reading or following it. Just using it as a prop. That G.D. piece of paper!
puppethead @83: The Bush government has always wanted a puppet regime to do their bidding
True, but judging by the evidence and activities of al-Dawa and the SCIRI for the last two decades (!!), that is precisely the exact opposite of what we see in Iraq.
Puppet regime?
You have no idea at all about the nature and the history of al-Dawa and the SCIRI.
They are not and have never been pro-American.
E.g.:
Al Dawa, for example, is no household name in the United States.
But it is a name important to this story.
It leads us back to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the ruling figure in Iran; to Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, the militant Lebanese Shiite leader who has been implicated–despite his denials–in the Marine and French bombings in Beirut; to Hussein Musawi, Fadlallah’s strong-arm lieutenant; to the Hakim brothers in Iran and their connections to the Middle East terrorism industry.
SanderO @ 97
Repairing bridges
Jonathan @ 80
Yea it’s really nasty, none of that dry heat. I was shootin the shit with my neighbor while we was walkin the dogs last night. “How in the hell did we take the heat in SE Asia”? he says.
“We was 19 says I”!
TarheelDem @ 9
Oh, is that what got this dump-Maliki business going. Makes sense.
Pace to call for troop withdrawals by EOY per Ackerman at TPMM.
Fern @ 102
They’ll never get him in a APC!
The upcoming change in the Iraqi government will come from “the people in Iraq.” Not the Iraqi people as you might have understood from W’s remarks, and not from US “politicians” of which W is not one of course.
“The people in Iraq” is “our” people. No doubt.
MayDaze at 101 — Yeah, that just hit the wires via the LATimes.
SanderO @ 53
i reject slave labor. which is what, i think, you are describing. or maybe indentured servitude would be a more accurate description.
that said, i’m a big fan of volunteer service (preferably paid) – just not legally required service. what you gonna due with those who refuse? throw them in jail?
Horsehead @ 100
I had the govt pay for part of my education if I would agree to teach in inner city or rural schools for 3 years. 19 years later …. I am still there.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 104
WaPo adds that Pace might soften his recommendations based on what the Sept 11 report delivered by Petraeus says.
Gotta have an out . . .
selise @ 107
That’s right, we all know about all the rights we have just by virtue of being born here. Responsibilities, nahhhhh.
SanderO @ 97
That is the key to our discourse here about public service, even the Mennonites and the Quakers could take part in peaceful public service. But Raven, when you wrote, “I’m just not sure you can make “mandatory universal service” provisional.” you laid the groundwork for the very thing we might fear, that our public service could be translated into imperial military force.
And that doesn’t quite fit the “Peace Corps” concept, that was a great model for future public service plans. But just the thought of signing up people for noble public service and turning them into soldiers for imperial war, makes it all seem futile and profane, because we know “they” are capable of doing just that..
Again, this has already happened.
How many National Guardsmen went to Iraq and died, who never imagined when they signed up for that college money, that they would be thrust into an international conflict?
OT. Is this old news here? (From Jeralyn’s blog)
“Convicted Al Qaeda operative Jose Padilla is seeking to hold former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and 59 other US officials responsible for what his lawyers say were abusive and unconstitutional tactics used against Mr. Padilla while he was held in military custody as an enemy combatant from 2002 to 2006.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/…..-usju.html
JEP @ 64
An excellent point, and serves to remind us that taking back the media is nearly as important as taking back our government. A section of the media must return to being a public forum.
Of course the way things are going, assuming that the internet doesn’t get gobbled up by corporations, the blogging world WILL become the voice of the people in the absense of the media serving any useful purpose. Give it time…
jayt @ 72
You took the words out of my mouth…
JEP @ 81
Leaving aside my usual diatribe over Bush’s usurpation of the National Guard (mmmph…mpphhh…mmmmpppph), I find I do like Austria’s model. They require a one to two year service of all citizens. One year of a military type duty OR two years (I could have the numbers wrong, the idea is the more dangerous one is the shorter one) of civil service which is strictly non military, sort of a Peace Corps volunteer work within the country kind of thing. This is required of everyone, male or female, and I think only disability exemptions exist, or translates into shorter civil service for some cases. I need to look at this online, but I had a co worker who had to go back to Austria to fulfill this obligation now that he was done with his PhD work.
Aaaaanyway, I know that nothing nearly so sane is at proposal here, so I oppose it, but I do not oppose the *idea*…
http://www.boston.com/news/pol….._to_r.htmlI hope this link works. Mitt has higher negatives than Hilary! Maybe there is a God? A God who likes me!
Sally @ 112
This is excellent news. Have not seen it anywhere and I am already knee-deep in news this morning.
puppethead: it’s because al-Maliki can’t or won’t deliver on our political agenda
al-Maliki has spent his life trying to Islamicize Iraq.
It is the later.
Check out this exchange btw al-Maliki and Sect Cheney.
Its from the time when the US was pro-Saddam Hussein and anti-Khomeini.
Its from the time when Saddam Hussein was gassing freedom fighters.
Jawad al-Maliki of the Dawa Party said in Damascus, Syria, that mustard gas was used against protesters in al-Haleh, al-Kifil, Najaf and some areas of Basra, in southeastern Iraq.
Precisely what is going on inside Iraq is difficult to determine since Western reporters have been expelled. Most information is coming from refugees and opposition leaders in Iran and Syria.
Defense Secretary Dick Cheney described the situation as “volatile” but said it appears Hussein will be able to keep the unrest in check for now. The Iraqi leader is using his loyal Republican Guard to quell the
rebellion.
Peterr at 107 — Oh yeah. But the joint chiefs have been voicing objections and concerns about the Patreaus plan since before they began the build-up. The Army and Marines, in particular, are stretched to a point beyond which they can function properly at the moment.
I know someone who is Air Force who has been “loaned out” to an on the ground Army unit because they needed to fill out the unit and didn’t have the recruits to do it. They’ve been doing that a LOT lately with both air force and navy personnel because they are stretched so thin. And that doesn’t even touch the equipment shortages and the lack of battle readiness in combat units who desperately need down time and training time for newer recruits…and it goes on and on.
And that doesn’t touch the problems in Iraq itself — and the destablizing effect that all of this has had on the entire region with the outflux of desperate refugees on countries that can ill-afford the extra strain on infrastructure and social services, just for starters. (Jordan, for one, cannot keep this up without our help — and soon.)
raven @ 109
i’m not rejecting that we have responsibilites. i’m rejecting this method of fufilling them.
Bush has broken the military.
Tanbark @ 79
I was in the last lottery and I really did sweat when those ping pong balls started popping. Got # 203 and still wished it were higher.
TexBetsy @ 120
Name me one thing he HASN’T broken…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 62
Not to mention the Americans trash the joint and then blame the residents for not being to put it back together.
Not of course that al Maliki is an angel by any means.
From my 113 link above:
“Legal analysts are divided on whether a judge would throw out Padilla’s case should the government invoke the so-called state secrets privilege. A lawsuit filed by a German citizen mistakenly held and interrogated in secret locations overseas by the Central Intelligence Agency was dismissed on those grounds by a federal judge in Virginia. In March, the action was upheld by the Fourth US Circuit Court of Appeals, which also has jurisdiction over cases in South Carolina. That case has been appealed to the US Supreme Court.”
(The invocation of “State secrets privilege” is chilling.)
I’m concerned that I’ve seen no followups to this Lieberman story from Monday, where he claims that:
Lieberman speaks for powerful forces other than himself, and apparently one of those forces is beating the drum for an attack on Syria.
peanutbutter @ 121
The resolve of the Firepups!
selise’s post at 52 is no longer there. [Mod: It’s at 54]
So, what did you mean by `the Maliki failures’?
Sally @ 123
You notice that even the making of a hero of Pat Tillman is also a state secret?
peanutbutter @ 122
My will to defeat these criminals.
peanutbutter @ 122
The Bush family trust funds.
Horsehead @ 120
I know what you mean. A friend and I happened to have the same birthday and we heard just the tail end of the radio broadcast, from a little over 100 to 317, when the announcer said, “If you’re birthday hasn’t been called, you’re in the clear. We will rebroadcast the list in 4 hours.” Longest 4 hours ever! I ended up with 337, but we were really sweating it!
Just a reminder folks. Please choose one screen name and stick with it. Frequently changing names can get you banned.
Thanks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 116
nir rosen reported that jordan has already closed it’s borders… and he thinks that the number of iraqi refugees already there (more than 10% of the jordan’s population) may cause the gov to be overthrown.
nir rosen from amy goodman’s interview:
Musta been a bitch sweating out that lottery. (wink icon)
Good morning FDLers.
By their works ye shall know them.
By the way, Juan Cole is scheduled to speak at the New America Foundation today between 12:15 and 1:45 p.m. EST [sic] and supposedly his remarks are to be carried on C-Span. Dr. Cole’s topic is “Lessons from Past Western Incursions in the Middle East” and is at least in part promotion of his new book on Napoleon’s invasion of Egypt Check the time though. AFAIK we’re still on daylight time here is the east.
Also, thanks to the FDLer who posted the “Main and Central” URL the other day. This has been added to my bookmarks and has become one of the locations I check each morning (along with Dr. Cole’s “Informed Comment” blog) for honest news of the debacle in Iraq.
Let’s get Nancy to celebrate Constitution Week with impeachment hearings.
There is no reason why whatever the service we provide, we are not paid for it… a fair market wage. We have the money when you consider how much is wasted on overpriced military procurements.
realworld @ 135
Perfect!
puppethead @83: The Bush government has always wanted a puppet regime to do their bidding
Again, true, but what we see in Iraq is the exact opposite of what the Bush government has always wanted.
Ever hear the Iraqi Parliament voice support for Israel’s right to exist?
Summary: The age of U.S. dominance in the Middle East has ended and a new era in the modern history of the region has begun.
Far from spreading democracy through the region, the Iraq war has strengthened a theocracy in which unelected religious figures make many of the crucial decisions.
“So far, Iran won the Iraq war,” said George Perkovich, the vice president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “They gained the most by far.”
The Iranian nightmare, By Michael Schwartz
Now, over two years after Baghdad fell and the American occupation of Iraq began, Kagan’s prediction appears to have been fulfilled – in reverse. The chief beneficiary of the occupation and the chaos it produced has not been the Bush administration, but Iran, the most populous and powerful member of the “axis of evil” and the chief American competitor for dominance in the oil-rich region. As diplomatic historian Gabriel Kolko commented, “By destroying a united Iraq under [Saddam] Hussein … the US removed the main barrier to Iran’s eventual triumph.”
article about ari fleischer and his new party gang, the title of the article is REALLY insulting
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..newsletter
former leader of iraq dies
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..=informbox
krauthammer spouting off about malaki is a failure, and dems are agreeing that surge is working
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..=informbox
raven @ 134
Try “winning” with the number 6!
Needless to say, I did whatever I could to manipulate things and maintain the deferments until I wound up enlisting in the AF after the hostilities ended.
kindlingstick — Selise’s comment is here. My comment is here. When you read them both, you will see that (a) selise is complaing about people who spout off and blame the Maliki government for problems ultimately of the Bush Administration’s making and (b) that I’m agreeing with her that it is awfully convenient to blame Iraqis by saying “Maliki failures” for the mess that the Bush Administration has made. I think that is abundantly clear, and I’m really not in the mood to spend my whole morning explaining myself about a point that I was not making in the first place while simultaneously trying to put together a fresh post for everyone. Do go back and re-read both links beyond a skim, and I hope it becomes clearer.
“Yes, it’s a bit arrogant to be spouting off about the Maliki failures considering that we have George Bush in the WH and people still living in formaldehyde-laced unsafe shanty trailers two years after Katrina, isn’t it?” means just what it says: that it is incredibly arrogant to blame the Iraqis when we have so many failures from the Bush Administration. As in, The Bush Administration is doing a crap job and trying to fob off responsibility onto others. Which I thought was plainly obvious on its face when I wrote the comment in the first place.
A “question” that the govt may invoke “State Secrets” in the Padilla case?
That’s really not a question – it’s an inevitability.
Onward, ye Christian soldiers!!!
SanderO @ 136
I don’t have too much of a problem with mandatory voluntary service as long as it results in work of social/public value, doesn’t involve work that would normally done by paid workers, and provides genuine opportunities for personal growth and learning for the participants. Two years is too long, though.
Try “winning” with the number 6!
Needless to say, I did whatever I could to manipulate things and maintain the deferments until I wound up enlisting in the AF after the hostilities ended.
I was 4a.
here’s the other two-i don’t normally load so many, but they were all topical…..so went to the trouble to find the links again……
ricks on the think tanks and military war games people are ‘deciding’-about what will happen when we withdraw from iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..cmoduletmv
from tuesday-maliki saying he could ‘find friends elsewhere’ while visiting syria, also quotes a sunni about maliki that is interesting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..cmoduletmv
Badwater @ 130
You owe me a new coffee!
raven @ 146
I think I was 1Y iirc (ROTC had its purposes)
Good Morning Christy.
Non-stop round-house knockout punches from you this morning. Beautiful post. Just what the doctor ordered. Did you hear the rumble when we all stood up and saluted?
I suspect a lot of dawgs are sharing my symptoms these days. Can’t stand to look at dumbya or anything that reminds us of him. Hideous little brat!
Even a born-again pug I was talking to yesterday stormed over his frustration that Jr. has broken the country, the world, so badly that it can never be fixed; the future is so bleak, we might as well give up.
I’m afraid I wasn’t very kind. Wouldn’t let him give up, at least not in my presence.
Letting some of the anger out helps a lot, but there must be more. These scoundrels cannot be allowed to bike free from responsibility for the horrendous damage they have caused. If we do not hold them accountable, what about the next gang of thugs?
Sure, there’s a miriad of reasons not to impeach the shrub-n-shooter gang. Still, I can think of nothing else, except to jail them and throw away the key. They should pay, and pay dearly, for what they have done.
Horsehead @ 120
I was #64 and was comtemplating CO status or Peace Corps… Anything to avoid the QUAGMIRE.(where have I heard that lately?)
I think upthread, someone pointed out that Maliki had invited Ahmadinejad to visit Baghdad.
I dunno, that doesn’t sound like the act of a man who’s worried about a coup.
To me, it sounds like a long, loud, fart…right in junior’s face. :o)
There are OTHER downsides to bush Dieming on Maliki. Will the Brits (already looking longingly at the road to London) want to stick around to help cover bush and the GOP’s asses for another 15 months, while the whole shittarree has just gone back to square one?
I seriously doubt it.
If Gordon Brown paid any attention to “The Wisdom of Donald Rumsfeld” and IF he has any sense of humor, he’s telling bush, as we post:
“You manage a clusterfuck with the government you rubberstamped; not the one you WISH you had rubberstamped. You turn this thing even more inside out than it already is, and the next time I walk into parliament, I’ll have to be carrying my own condoms, to pass out to the labor MP’s to use on me in the weekly “question and answer” thingy. If it blows up, we are SO outtathere.”
I’m beginning to wonder if, at this point, bush’s policy-making decisions (giggle) aren’t just to serve to sustain his fantasy that he’s still in complete control of events. I mean what do you do when your toy soldiers start melting right in front of your eyes?
Per this LA Times article:
[…]
Pace’s recommendations reflect the views of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who initially expressed private skepticism about the strategy ordered by Bush and directed by Petraeus, before publicly backing it.
According to administration and military officials, the Joint Chiefs believe it is of crucial strategic importance to reduce the size of the U.S. force in Iraq in order to bolster the military’s ability to respond to other threats, a view that is shared by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates.
Pace is expected to offer his advice privately instead of issuing a formal report. Still, the position of Pace and the Joint Chiefs could add weight to that of Bush administration critics, including Democratic presidential candidates, that the U.S. force should be reduced.
“Constitution Week” – has such a fascist ring to it.
I think funerals should be organized. To mourn the constitution.
wigwam @ 152
It’s a trick, a set-up, some kind of bullshit.
Now that most people see the writing on the wall it is incumbent on us all to do whatever we can to short circuit and challenge the efforts by those that foisted this war upon us from shifting the blame elsewhere.
As Josh at TPM said America will go on but this is the end of the line for George W. Bush. Hence the stridency to place this war in such vast, drastic consequences.
So when you hear the rightwing handwringing about “who lost Iraq” lay the blame right at their own feet.
-GSD
raven @ 154
Are you implying that Pace has no credibility whatsoever?
wigwam @ 152
it is stunning.
N.O.B.O.D.Y. knows what to do with this mess.
Thanks dmac 140.
Krauthammer:
How very helpful.
Does anyone know why Hillary Clinton and Karl Levin felt the need to get out in front of the Maliki ouster? I frankly don’t understand it.
dakine01 @ 156
Whatthoever
TheraP @ 154
Something has to be done.
Jr’s lil gambit to celebrate could be copied straight out of Orwell, couldn’t it?! Makes.Me.Sick!
So, Bush and his ’sidekick’ Dick want to install another dictator so he can strongarm the opposition and achieve piece through … whatever means seems easiest for a dictator.
Who is going to remind them that they, themselves, installed Saddam — and Rumsfield was on quite good terms with him for a while until Saddam did what all dictators do, blow off hint of ‘help.’ Um, sounds like someone else …
TheraP @ 153
Could you imagine if Bush had been around when the Constitution was drafted, he would have attached a signing statement to it.
Air America is doing a piece to present a collection of Bush speeches that indicate or prove that he has undergone serious brain damgage; pretty convincing. And more, on the Today Show, Bill Kristol told us all the reasons the surge is working and it was not serious that Warner has presented his thoughts to the Pres. Bill Smiled broadly.
Jane Hamsher @ 157
Apparently the calm is Anbar is due to the US pulling out of that city. Poster child for re-deployment rather than the surge, not that the Bushies would ever tell you that part.
AZ Matt @ 162
that would be funny if it weren’t actually true
((Christy)) You Rock!! Just what I needed for breakfast, especially after watching the repugnant Mychal Massie, the Chairman of the National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives (???), he also writes for the WorldNutDaily, so that is pretty much two damning strikes against the man.
Jail them and throw away the key. They should pay, and pay dearly, for what they have done.
Amen to that
AZ Matt @ 163
…right before he rolled it up and used it to snort coke.
How about: Wear Black for “Constitution Week”!
Good Morning GrandmaJ! ;->
How are you doing these days?
BTW: Isn’t it interesting how Warner’s call to pull out 5,000 troops is being billed as a huge turnaround?
BHatten @ 164
Even Kristol himself can’t keep a straight face as he tries to sell that shit. Even the Chimp smirks. Reagan, however, could maintain an unctious sincerity regardless of what he was selling.
TheraP @ 170
at least black armbands with a inverted flag
Maybe they’ll hold a lottery to see who gets included in the 5000 home for Christmas!
Wonder if those 5000 will all “make it” till Christmas!
How about a copy of the Bill of Rights with the 4th, 5th, 1st, 6th,9th Crossed off. Oh hell, cross tham all off except #2
Where Is Common Sense by Thomas Paine when we need it?
GSD @ 156
We haven’t lost Iraq, we’ve lost America.
Whatever the way out is… Bush and this congress won’t leave and create what appears to be a “control vacuum”. For the USA to get the hell out some “structure” needs to be in place that has some legs. It might be a multinational force, a new strongman puppet… even leave after three autonomous states are formed and enter into an agreement of guaranteed borders. We do need to do militarize the region, as opposed to flooding it with weapons.
We can’t stand off to the side and act like policemen. And we need to let them do whatever they want with their oil and economy. I don’t see one Iraq state as the outcome here… so we should probably push for some sort of 3 state solution and facilitate that. One country there is like herding cats… it’s not gonna happen.
nonplussed @ 164
amen. … and that she does it day in and day out. it’s awesome.
check this out from republican va rep davis regarding patreas
democrats need to pay attention to this, this is correct, they need to disregard the report, we know it’s edited by the white house, we need to ask point blank questions to patreas and we need to repeat the question when he diverts
I believe he will testify truthfully when asked direcet questions
Good morning Adie. Doing O.K. — if you don’t count that my car’s engine started smoking yesterday while doing some shopping. A belt went AND it desparately need new brakes, or drums, or bearings, or something.
So while waiting for the estimate plus towing charges, I am looking at used cars on the internet. Repair or buy different set of problems. ummm… I would like to get all wheel drive that maybe gets 25-30 mpg. Have to make my decision probably by tomorrow.
Good morning everyone. It is going to rain here again. First the crops die from drought, then we have a year’s worth of rain in 2 weeks. Maybe I should buy a boat.
Catching up from yesterday I see Jay Rosen was slamming Skupe. Nice mention of FDL:LA Times
Kindlingstick @ 100
And you would be well-advised to do less insulting and more discussing. Many of us here are well aware of the history of the Islamist parties the idiots in our government helped put in power, and their connections to Iran. But it is also undeniably true that with 150,000 U.S. troops in their country, they would have gotten into power or stayed there if they were not doing a passable job of serving American interests.
selise @ 177
Not quite breakfast. Need cereal & coffee as well.
Great post Christy!
“Where Is Common Sense by Thomas Paine when we need it?”
TomPaine.com
Digby’s there now, too, the New Pamphleteers are gathering their resources for a unified effort. If ever “The Blogs” had a spiritual predecessor, it is the Pamphleteers.
realworld @ 172
I saw/heard Warner on the telly last night. Nearly every word out of his mouth was shameless, self-serving, CYA-ing nonsense! That’s the only reason he came out in the sunlight. We do NOT need pretend-senators of that ilk!
Constitution Day and Citizenship Day, Constitution
WeekWeak, 2007realworld @ 176
Iraq was never ours to lose in the first place.
We shouldn’t abandon Iraq. We should just hire the UN to bring peace. I bet they could do it on the cheap too. I bet $6B/week would do it.
Why do people have to see the world in terms of winning and losing. It’s so has been capitalist.
tanbark at 152-”There are OTHER downsides to bush Dieming on Maliki. Will the Brits (already looking longingly at the road to London) want to stick around to help cover bush and the GOP’s asses for another 15 months, while the whole shittarree has just gone back to square one?
I seriously doubt it.
If Gordon Brown paid any attention to “The Wisdom of Donald Rumsfeld” and IF he has any sense of humor, he’s telling bush, as we post:”
brown has his hands full today…the brits called in for air support and we dropped a bomb on them….3 dead….
he’s gonna have a hard time justifying staying in iraq to the brits…this isn’t the first time this has happened to british troops.
dakine01 @ 68. Good point.
realworld @ 172
I thought I heard that by April they would have to extend from 15 to 18 month tours because of manpower shortage. Maybe this is how they get around that but I’m sure Georgie wouldn’t lose any sleep if they went to 18 month tours.
I’d like to hear Congress ask Petraeus in many variations if he believes the solution to a successful counterinsurgency in Iraq is dependent on attacking Iran and Syria. My guess is no fucking way, but this is an opportunity to nail that down inside and out from every conceivable angle and use it to oppose Cheney.
Jane Hamsher @ 157
Isn’t Levin the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and Hilliary a member of, which BetrayUs is going to testify that the surge is working?
Are they setting something up?
dakine01 @ 188
this is correct, this is not our war, this is not a place we should have engaged, this was a depraved crime and when someone tries to put this into the terms of winning and loosing we have to laugh in their face and say something like;
“why on earth should the armed forces of the united states of america be expected to win a war this president started for his sick freinds who whated to steal the treasure from the middle east, a war he was advised against, with a country he knew posed no threat, who he had to manufacture false data to proceed
Horsehead @ 193
but they promise no more than 18 months, they swear.
Horsehead: Idiots NEVER lose sleep.
my 191…..
the brits’ calling for help with an air strike were fighting against the taliban, the way i worded it, sounded like it was in iraq….sorry
“potentially creating a rift with top White House officials and other military commanders over the course of the war.”
So much for “listening to our generals..”
So, just which Generals do you listen to, George?
The ones who tell you the truth that you are an abject failure, or the ones who lie about the war, in order to get promoted?
Their careers matter more than their soldiers, the number of stars on their shoulder is the only thing that finally matters, not the war itself.
Stop talking to and listening to Generals, and listen to some of the soldiers on the street.
Horsehead @ 192
Eighteen months, good thing there isn’t any morale problem in the military.
George @ 187
Homeland Constitution Day
Per this LA Times article:
Petraeus is expected to support a White House view that the absence of widespread political progress in Iraq requires several more months of the U.S. troop buildup before force levels are decreased to their pre-buildup numbers sometime next year.
(Snip)
It remains possible that the Joint Chiefs may opt to weaken their stance before approaching Bush.
Okay. let me get this straight. Petraeus is saying that this shit isn’t working, so what we obviously need to keep doing is the same damn thing. Brilliant.
And Peter Pace, the first man in my recollection to have been made Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff without actually having a pair of balls, is expected to clear all of that traitorous reality out of the place where his brain is supposed to be, and once again revert to impotent lap-dog status any time now.
Situation normal, if I’m reading this right.
JEP: bush NEVER listens. bush only speaks, poorly.
JEP @ 185
Per this report, it appears that the surge’s success in Al Anbar has been overstated.
TheraP @ 202
Actually, he listens to “the voices”.
JEP @ 185
damn lost my quote that said in effect that we need to provide the impact becuz MSM sure is not doing it.
Maliki seems to believe in diplomacy with the Iran. I wonder how HoJoe feels about that.
GrandmaJ
Scary stuff with the car. Glad you’re o.k.
If you get a used one, suggest you find a good reliable mechanic, recommended by people you trust, to check it over before you sign on the dotted line.
We had same sorta summer. Poor garden parched, then drowned. I always hill things up, and use mulch. Perfect year for that. Wish I could hand you a nice juicy tomato and some beautiful chard thru the toobz! ;->
on Allawi’s bid for power
wonder where that cash came from? hmm…
Three British soldiers were killed in a suspected “friendly fire” incident involving a bomb dropped from a U.S. fighter plane during a clash with Taliban militants in Afghanistan, military officials said Friday.
PS: Good luck with your car grandma
You Jim Clausen @ 208
You know, it’s interesting…when I reread the history there…all those FF publishing anonymous commentary in the local newspapers, it strikes me that in thisday and age, they would have been bloggers. Seriously, all that stuff there looks like blogging with the technology they had back in the day.
So I think with the blogs and the commentary and so on, we’re actually heirs to a proud tradition going back centuries. Which is a funny way to think about the intartoobs, but really in the end it’s all powered by human nature which hasn’t changed all that much.
Jane Hamsher @ 159
Hillary has been trying the “it’s the Iraqis’ fault” line for a while; it’s what she got booed for at Take Back America. From the Democratic side, this is just another variation on that theme. I suspect they have the misguided notion that since we can’t credibly “declare victory and get out,” “blame the Iraqis and get out” is the next best thing for hawkish Democrats to (mostly) do what the people want without taking the blame.
They’re wrong, of course. The Republicans are going to try to blame “losing” Iraq on the Democrats no matter how carefully they play it, and the only way they’ll avoid that is to hit back hard and pin it where it belongs, on Bush and the GOP.
(As the the Krauthammer article, I think it may overreach a bit declaring that Levin is saying “the same thing as O’Hanlon and Pollack.” We might be well advised to see if we can make that blow back on them by starting a serious public discussion of why nearly everyone coming back from Iraq is saying exactly the same thing — which is what the Right is saying even if it isn’t true — and how that means they’ve been fed Pentagon propaganda rather than seeing anything for themselves.)
TheraP @ 204
Threatens his manhood to be caught listenin’, I do believe. Now that’s just tragic. No! REALLY! The world in flames because of one twit’s run-amok ego problems. Where WERE you while the lad/brat was growing up, mommiedearest Bar?! And daddydearest: stop with the tears already. You’re just as guilty!
jayt @ 203
IIRC, Einstein’s definition of crazy was repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. If something doesn’t work, surely you didn’t do enough of it.
And don’t let anyone talk you out of a buyers check. Make sure they pull the spark plug and check the compression. You need consistent compression across all cylinders.
Redshift @ 183
Kindlingstick is mostly concerned about a country close to Iraq that cannot be named.
IIRC, Einstein’s definition of crazy was repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. If something doesn’t work, surely you didn’t do enough of it.
I think that’s a common definition of insanity.
‘Splains why that to GWB – “he’s our boy!”
dmac @ 199
You have a linkie for that?
Jane Hamsher @ 159
Clinton is embracing the reality that out Saudi Arabian “allies” don’t want a Shiite government in Iraq. Juan Cole seems to think her Maliki statements are unwise for a number of reasons that make sense to me. Hillary develops foot and mouth disease (along with Levin.)
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…
Redshift @ 214
Carl Levin is too smart to be hoodwinked by a Pentagon dog-and-pony show. He’s getting pressure from elsewhere. Any conjectures?
Re-reading:
Oh THANK YOU Redd! I can now look at him. But not without laughing uncontrollably. Then I find myself reaching for the fly-swatter, or an overripe tomato… ;->
Suggest we consider referring to Jr’s Constietootin’ week as same:
Bull-headed Nincompoopery!
wigwam @ 223
Well, I did say that Krauthammer’s characterization of Levin’s comments as exactly the same as O’Hanlon and Pollack clearly isn’t true. As for what he actually did say, it’s arguably in line with his previous positions (such as the Levin-Reed amendment) that he’d like the president to reduce troops, but he’s not going to make him do it. Add right-wing noise machine blast faxes to journalists, and voila!
wigwam @ 206
the surge isn’t in al anbar, how could it be successful there?
oh, that’s right, the old “fly paper” strategy
using that strategy, if we “surge” our troops back home there will be success in all of Iraq
I am down for that
Juan Cole in Washington today..go to the New America Foundation website to find out more.
Juan Cole: Lessons from Past Western Incursions in the Middle East
Juan Cole will discuss his new book, Napoleon’s Egypt: Invading the Middle East and the relevance and lessons of Napoleon’s expedition in Egypt to the current American occupation of Iraq. New America Foundation/American Strategy Program Director Steve Clemons will offer comments and moderate the discussion.
Juan Cole is a professor of Middle Eastern and South Asian history at the University of Michigan, the President of the Global Americana Institute, and the publisher of Informed Comment, a blog that specializes in providing translations and commentary on the modern Middle East.
Start: 08/24/2007 – 12:15pm
End: 08/24/2007 – 1:45pm
New America Foundation
1630 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. 7th Floor
Washington, DC, 20009
United States
fern-i couldn’t find it……and knew i was gonna be epu’d any second…..was off looking for it, came back to check and found
ccmask posted it at 212!!
thanks ccmask
elliot at 211-”wonder where that cash came from? hmm…”
his exploratory committee!!!!!
he’s runnin’ for office the same way we do here, with lots of money and lots of consultants, don’t even need to ‘meet and greet the people’…….
wigwam @ 223
I’d love to know. But this kind of stuff is what I can’t stand about Hillary. I am sure the Saudis are not liking the idea of a Shiite Iraq at all.
Time to find another energy source.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 142: it is incredibly arrogant to blame the Iraqis when we have so many failures from the Bush Administration.
Thanks for your work!
I agree.
It is incredibly arrogant.
But!
Unlike Bush, al-Maliki is succeeding and concretizing his decades old dream of Islamicizing Iraq as evidenced by Southern Iraq.
It is wrong and ignorant to even use the word `failure’ as a descriptor of the Iraqi Parliament.
`Failure’ implies the US’ and the Iraqi agenda is one and the same when in fact they are at least two different things.
It would have been far clearer to me if you would have used `alleged Maliki failure’.
To the grave detriment to the US, Al-Maliki, al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, et al are enjoying success.
This is what we get in response to the horrific attacks of 9/11?
Redshift: But it is also undeniably true that with 150,000 U.S. troops in their country, they would have gotten into power or stayed there if they were not doing a passable job of serving American interests.
Passable job?
Please adduce evidence!
What legislative measures have been passed that would clearly and firmly support your view that the Iraqi Parliament is doing a `passable job of serving American interests’?
Nothing has been accomplished that would benefit the US.
Not one thing.
These guys are NOT stooges.
The American agenda is not their agenda.
They cannot truly be pro-American and pro-Iran/Syria at the same time.
They are killing the US with a death of a thousand cuts.
They are slowly draining the beast of its blood and vitality.
‘Stick, you wander all over the ballpark:
“To the grave detriment to the US, Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, et al, are enjoying success.
This is what we get in response to the horrific attacks of 9-11?”
It’s what we get for collectively having drunk the koolaid-and-snakeoil BushCo Margarita like it was our mother’s breast milk.
And you post this BS, WITHOUT mentioning that george bush and his “Islamist” freakers-out like you, have turned Iraq into a complete hellhole, and as a direct result of the invasion, hundreds of thousands of people who had jackshit to DO with 9-11, have died, and another million-odd have been turned into refugees.
The Shiites whom you posit as enjoying such great “success” are ALSO living in pure sectarian hell, as a result of the invasion and attempted occupation of Iraq.
Maliki and his government’s “success” can be measured by the fact that if they started meeting outside the green zone, they would probably be converted into Alpo within 48 hours.
It’s true that the Shiites, at least in the south, are eventually going to come out of this with a lot power, and they will inevitably ally themselves to substantial degree, with Iraq, enhancing THEIR power.
But I didn’t see a word in your posts complaining about this, pointing out the simple truth that george bush and the warpimps who love the word “Islamist” as much as you do, had anything to do with it. Instead, you write as if this all descended on Iraq, and on us, gosharootie, in a shower of “Islamic” rain.
Which is precisely the bullshit that bush and his fellow borgs are so desperately peddling.
When Christy spoke of Maliki’s “failing” she wasn’t blaming the situation in Iraq on the Iraqis; that’s the warpimps current big talking point. (Helped immeasurably by the leading democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton, parroting the same obscenity)
I think she was saying that the Iraqi government had NO chance of success. Which is the truth. Any government there which is dependent on the american military for it’s very existence, is, by definition, a failure; just not a failure of it’s own shortcomings.
Iraq was a pressure cooker. Saddam was the lid. We removed the lid. Now WE’RE the lid.
Remember Powell’s: “…If you break it, you’re gonna own it.”
Well, george bush now “owns” it, but he and the GOP can’t afford the payments.
To put it another way, they’re the ones who knocked up Rosemary, and now that her kid’s horns and tail are showing, they’re the ones who should pay the child support.
I can hardly wait; how about you?
“They are slowly draining the beast of it’s blood and vitality.”
Which beast, against all common sense (and against the advice of george bush’s dada) was sent there to try to make the place safe for the Fortune 500…turning it into a nightmare in the process.
Whining about the things that no small number of us were warning the warpimps about is bad form, to say the least, ’stick.
BTW, let me ask you, straight-up: george bush can start bringing home the troops with the stroke of a pen, this afternoon.
Do you think he should do that? :o)
Perfect week to start an impeachment to celebrate our Constitution!
Tanbark: It’s what we get for collectively having drunk the koolaid-and-snakeoil BushCo Margarita like it was our mother’s breast milk.
We?
Fuc that!
We???
I have never taken a sip and have been a staunch critic of the war from day one.
You must have been the one guzzling.
Tanbark: And you post this BS,
What BS?
Pls point it out. What have I written that is BS? You failed to point out the BS.
Tanbark: WITHOUT mentioning that george bush and his “Islamist” freakers-out like you, have turned Iraq into a complete hellhole, and as a direct result of the invasion, hundreds of thousands of people who had jackshit to DO with 9-11, have died, and another million-odd have been turned into refugees.
I am not “Islamist” freaker-outer.
The US should form a bond with Iran.
The hellhole of Iraq is at the center of my mind: It is beyond horrible that in direct but inadvertent response to the horrific attacks of 9/11, Bush inadvertently helped father a burgeoning Shiite fundamentalist republic which will never be a loyal ally at the cost of countless oceans of blood and treasure.
To top things off, Bush has been training and arming men no doubt the US will fight against.
Nothing could be worse.
Tanbark: BTW, let me ask you, straight-up: george bush can start bringing home the troops with the stroke of a pen, this afternoon. Do you think he should do that? :o)
The US is fuct and has been fuct the moment it unleashed al-Dawa and the SCIRI.
In any case, I do not think that oceans of blood and treasure should be spilled.
Tanbark: I think she was saying that the Iraqi government had NO chance of success. Which is the truth.
No chance of success?
Southern Iraq has been under Sharia law since the fall of Saddam Hussein and the Kurds have become independent and the Iraqi government has NO chance of success?
What we see is what the anti-Saddamist opposition groups were working for since the 1980s if not longer and you think there is no chance for sucess?
Your POV is purely American.
How can you suggest that there is a failure when the fact of the matter is that they do not want to enact the US’ directives?
Why do you not judge the success or failure of the Iraqis by their standards and wants?
Constitution Day/Week has been on the federal books since 2004.
dude @ 39
Must be a young Bush they’re protecting from real service.
peanutbutter @ 122
I’ll bet he’s never broken par on a golf course!
Jane Hamsher @ 159
Smells like triangulation, but I don’t know what they get in the deal.
’stick; your BS is about the Shiites “enjoying success”. They’re killing and being killed by the Sunnis, and doing the same to each other, in “successful” Basra.
Maliki’s government is hiding out in the green zone like a rat in a cupboard.
If you’re so antiwar, why were you putting screeds about the shitty things that are going on in Iraq, without a word about bush and the warpimps being responsible for them.
Instead, you keep complaining how well the “Islamists” are doing, without saying anything about WHY they’re “enjoying success”.
So. Do you think that bush should make that pen-stroke tomorrow morning, and start bringing home the troops, instanter?
It’s not a tough question. Any good antiwar person should be able to answer it. :o)
BTW, there IS no chance for the current Iraqi government to “enjoy success”. The Shiites will enjoy it, down the road, but the enjoyment will come mainly in the south, where they are dominant, and will likely make some compromises between the various militia groups, INCLUDING the Mehdis, whose existence and influence, for some reason (and just like the bushheads) you would rather not acknowledge.
You are confusing the Maliki government with the greater Shiite community. That is a typical bushCo mistake.
NO government can gain and keep the support of the Shiites by cutting deals with us. Of course, the same is also true of the Sunnis, but THEY are not in the running to furnish a replacement for Maliki, if bush is stupid enough to sign off on a coup against him.
The notion that there is a monolithic “Islamic” juggernaut taking over Iraq is the purest neo-con nonsense. It’s straight out of the Knesset. The Shiites are every bit as fragmented as are the Sunnis, and there is about as much intramural fighting going on among them.
To go with that about bush having the ability to start bringing the troops home tomorrow, with no compromises, no vote-trading, no deals necessary, let me ask you this:
Are you a contributor to AIPAC? :o)
Horsehead @ 121
#9 here, actually went in for my induction physical…which was…irony upon irony…cancelled and rescheduled due to the death the day before of LBJ. All government offices (including induction centers) were closed. By the time the SSS got around to making a new date Nixon had ended the draft. Likely wouldn’t have gone to VietNam if I had been drafted since only a handful in that last round were actually deployed.