One of the biggest challenges we face when we support candidates and ask people to give money to their campaigns is getting them to be responsive to the concerns of the community once they’ve been elected. While we don’t expect to agree with them on every vote, we do expect that they will remain true to the substantive representations they make when they’re trying to get our support. It didn’t work out so well with Chris Carney, who said point blank that he would vote for the Hate Crimes legislation, and then reneged by joining the Republicans in an effort to defeat it.
As Booman said, “If there is a case that can be made for a big tent within the Democratic Party that includes some very conservative members, there is no case for members that lie to us about how they will vote and then contemptuously call us naïve.”
Jerry McNerney is a big netroots hero, and that’s why his recent comments — which seemed to further a distorted Republican narrative that somehow this wasn’t the bloodiest summer ever in Iraq, and that if only the Democrats would stop being so partisan and reach across the aisle, all the problems of the war could be solved — was so disappointing. The people who supported him on Blue America did so largely because of his strong anti-war stance. We invited local blogger and McNerney constituent Babaloo, who worked tirelessly to help get him elected, to blog about it here and here.
We were under a lot of pressure to take McNerney off the Blue America page, but we wanted to give him the opportunity to come on the site and speak to our community about his comments. It is to his credit that he is willing to do so. It’s not only a brave move for him, it’s a really important moment for Blue America as we seek to maintain the relationship with candidates and keep the lines of communication open after the election is over. I hope you’ll join us today for a special edition of Blue America with Congressman Jerry McNerney at 6pm PT/9pm ET here on Firedoglake.
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Excellent.
{{{{Jane!}}}}
Good to hear…
It shows a certain amount of integrity and a fair amount of courage to have this dialogue.
I will be interested to see what he has to say.
If nothing else, this is an acknowledgement that the netroots have become a force that cannot be ignored.
Bravo!! Lots of props for this. Also, lots of props for McNerney willing to come and face the music. Perhaps we can get some more insight on why Bush Dogs/Blue Dogs are so shaky when it comes to things like FISA. Hell, Tester said he wanted the PAtriot Act repealed, and it didn’t hurt him. Why can’t we take a stronger stand on things like FISA?
Hi Jane
looseheadprop @ 4
Agreed — and it sure beats Chris Carney’s approach. I, too, am anxious to hear from McNerney, not only about Iraq but about the dynamics of being a freshman Dem in Congress.
I posted this downstairs with regard to the supposed success of the surge, you really have to check out these metrics, anyone claiming there is success is being rediculous;
[Mod Note; http://www.washingtonmonthly.c.....011931.php ]
Peterr @ 7
Me too. I hope he can explain why he did what he did.
Peterr @ 7
Plus prehaps some info on the koolaid that seems fed to congresscritters who go over to the Green Zone for a looky lou…
Perhaps HRC would be willing to come in and explain her recent remarks on Iraq and ‘the next war’.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
Don’t. Hold. Your. Breath.
spurious @ 9
we have to get our questions at the ready, antiicipate some canned answers and make sure he gets off the script and gives us some REAL answers
no canned answers, no talking points, if he was appeased somehow we need to know exactly what it was that apeased him
I strongly suggest that he look at Kevin Drum’s fact based assessment (vs dog and pony show assessment) before the chat starts. This is sure to come up.
Also he should be prepared to answer why it is that Sunni Arabs fighting foreign al qaeda elements shows that escalation to secure Baghdad was successful.
It’s almost certainly true that the short term success in Anbar can be attributed to Petraeus, who advocates these divide and conquer tactics. But there was no need to escalate to adopt those tactics.
Pacifying Anbar was not the claimed goal. Pacifying Baghdad was, so that the parliament could meet and decide on (actually ratify Congressional) policy matters.
“If nothing else, this is an acknowledgement that the netroots have become a force that cannot be ignored.”
And FDL in particular.
perris @ 13
everyone should cut and paste those “surge” results and be ready to show him the surge has done the opposite of working, it has proven COUNTER productive, as our military generals told us would happen
here are the statistics again for cut, paste, and saving
Mod note: Please do not take up server space with excessive posting of the same material on the same thread. A reference to the previous comment with the appropriate information should suffice.
driveby-
hi jane, i didn’t see this posted up-top……
here’s christie’s post from tuesday about jerry…..it has his statement on it……and the comments were interesting, too, as always.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ty-moment/
take care
jayackroyd @ 14 –
i hope you are going to be here tonight to ask your questions.
p.s. i found your excellent diary at TPM to be most helpful in trying to understand what our dem leaders are thinking. (recommened to all firepups who haven’t yet read it – and don’t miss the comments, especially jayackoroyd’s at the end).
how do I get my facebook link in place?
petwrecker @ 19
Login. I had never logged in before.
Howie typically posts at DWT with the BA article an hour or so before it comes up at FDL for the start of the chat. Not up yet, but assume will be. http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
McNerney better be ready for some tough questions, such as:
In order to end the war in Iraq, do you believe that the most effective strategy is (a) to seek consensus with Republicans on this issue through the use of conciliatory rhetoric that serves to downplay and muddy the differences between the two parties regarding Iraq or (b) to specifically identify and confront those who support the war, forcing them to suffer politically until they move to end it?
Mr. McNerney, there is no third choice.
And a mixture of (a) and (b) isn’t an answer – it is a strategic failure.
my 17
i was in a hurry, i said his statement is on it, i should have said that the post has jerry’s response to howie on it…….everyone should read it.
selise @ 18
Thanks for the kind words. One thing I was very gratified about was the quality of the comments. My goal in that post was to get people thinking about what is really going on, and that really requires engaged commenters.
Also, while I have been thinking about these issues for a long time (pestering Slate’s Fred Kaplan by email to write about the implications of the enduring bases, for example), I have to credit the discussion at YKos (chaired by Christy?) where Taylor Marsh and Digby really crystallized the points of conflict.
jayackroyd @ 20
i want a blue f link…
jayackroyd @ 20
To the right of post#8 above, sign it to META.
petwrecker @ 19
Go to the “Meta” box at the bottom of the far right column
Register with FDL
Wait for an e-mail from FDL with a password
Go to your Facebook Profile and copy the URL. Make sure you get the actual Profile with the long number at the end rather than just the layout.
After you get the FDL password, come back here and click on the Login link. Login to your FDL Profile, fill in the appropriate information including pasting the Facebook link info in to the appropriate box in your FDL profile.
Save profile.
You should then have the facebook icon showing when you comment.
You may have to re-log in each time you restart your machine or browser, depending on the browser and machine.
ok, this is big, we already knew it, we ALWAYS say bush fulfilled bin ladens wet dream when he attacked Iraq, now someone who interviews bin laden confirms
dmac @ 17
folks might also want to read this from Mcnerney’s blog, prior to his visit.
http://weblog.jerrymcnerney.co…..e-rec.html
Personally, I think he’s lost his way on this issue.
jayackroyd @ 24
is there a video or audio available of that discussion?
as you can probably tell, although i am way behind you, i am struggling to understand what’s been going on – and not just on iraq, on fisa, the mca, iran….
dakine01 @ 27
Thank you, Dick.
Just a crazy thought…maybe they are thinking that the US won’t attack Iran if there are a substantial number of troops in Iraq, i.e., run out the clock to avoid the Iran situation…
jayackroyd @ 14
Hi Jay. Good to see you.
perris @ 28
robert fiske has also intervied bin laden (three times i think). major mistakes like that detract from the rest of the article.
petwrecker @ 31
Sorry but unlike our (not so) esteemed VPOTUS, I’m not a Dick.
I am not familiar with his earlier, pre election pronouncements and what informed his position back then.
If something has changed… I would like to know what it was? What information did he see that he hadn’t before that informed his recent turn around?
Is his current position an attempt to represent ALL his constituents and not just the ones who elected him to get us out of Iraq? Once elected what does he see as the means to achieving EVERYONE’S goal of seeing this war end… compromise with the other side of the aisle?
Seems weird ha?
*xyz @ 22
Mr. McNerney, how exactly do we get out of Iraq by staying there? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Very cool, looseheadprop @ 4
Well said, and I agree.
What’s an FDL profile? I’ve been here for 3 yrs and this is all nude to me.
SanderO @ 39
See my #27. It is the mechanism for getting your facebook info linked to your FDL user name. Jane got the idea a couple of months ago for both the facebook fdl group and the linking.
dakine01 @ 35
;~)
SanderO @ 39
Careful, ya don’t want to bare all…!!! ;-)
I don’t do facebook and don’t know what it is either hahahaha
jayackroyd @ 14
I posted my 20 reasons the “surge” is not working in the last thread. Maybe I will post them in the McNerney thread this evening. In any case, the current talk of progress is highly deceptive. The only way any positive signs can be found is by bending, twisting, or just making up the data.
I just read about it on Wiki.. it’s for college kiddies. Hence I am way too old for a face on facebook. It’s for the young and restless not the old and sedentary hahaha
SanderO @ 45
Not just for college kids and if you saw the pictures of those of us here, you would see that some of us old and sedentary types are also using it to connect with each other.
dakine01 @ 46
I’m not sure but it is a great and free networking tool.
dakine01 @ 46
Seems to me it’s doa.
dakine01 @ 46
And a little secret. One can be completely tubes-ignorant and still be capable of at least loggin’ in and viewing the pictures of these alleged “old and sedentary.” (Dakine — you got lots of mile left on you pal.)
Thank you very much for arranging this discussion. I’m hoping this can add some clarity to Jerry’s position. As Jerry’s constituent I’ve been asking for weeks for him to clarify.
http://ca-11.blogspot.com/2007…..-more.html
raven @ 48
Well besides helping me to connect with folks here, I’ve connected with a couple of my younger cousins and a high school classmate. Like just about anything, you have to put a little time in to get value out.
retirin’ in five @ 49
The early pickling with alcohol sometimes works as a preservative doncha know…
dakine01 @ 51
The last message I got was from you admonishing me for letting that little psycho punk get my goat. I wrote you back, nada.
raven @ 53
Sorry about that. I thought we had exhausted the topic of the person in question. mea culpa!
edit: I checked the FB messages and remember the person in question. I tend to give short shrift to those just out of their teens who deal in absolutes with no life experience to back them up in their rants.
think progress is amazing, look at what they have up now;
this is it, this is what he had planed, a never ending occupation, he never wanted success, he never wanted a democratic Iraq, he wanted an excuse to always be there
I don’t have the ling but I remember reading that the president said he’s gonna make sure the next two presidents won’t be able to leave Iraq
and he’s making good on that promise isn’t he
[Mod Note; Edited by Mod for length. To help keep the FDL servers running smoothly and to avoid any copyright issues, please do not post entire articles — include a link instead. Thank you. ]
testing, testing, 1,2,3…
dakine01 @ 54
Was that during the eugenics thread awhile back?
dakine01 @ 54
I agree (I did have several Laker applaud my effort). I am in a number of online groups and I just don’t see much cookin on FB, even on the FDL Doggie group! I had high hopes for that one.
Why Cheney is really that bad… by Scott Ritter. Ritter pushing for the Impeachment of Dick Cheney
http://www.informationclearing…..e18239.htm
The crazed radicals getting closer to Iran
http://www.informationclearing…..e18240.htm
Both good reads
petwrecker @ 56
Congrats, you’re f’ed now…!!!
on topic – new and very helpful post at the next hurrah by mimikatz, “Time For Serious Talk On Iraq“
raven @ 58
Well, the So Central TX pups have been able to get some use out of it in connecting locally.
perris @ 55
He never planned for us to leave. We would not be building bases if we were leaving although they deny the bases exist.
CTuttle @ 57
Oh no, there was a guy here a couple of weeks ago that was out of control. When I googled his handle I found some really disturbing (and I don’t disturb all that easy) on Huff Post. The dude needed standing up to IMHO so I did.
edited by mods
Dunno what happened up there, sorry mods.
Not to worry – fixed
petwrecker @ 56
Yes!
Heads up, (fyi), you will not see the facebook link when previewing. Only when you submit comment.
SanderO @ 45
Hmmm, college was a while back for me ;-)
Certainly the younger crowd dominate, and I don’t care about what most of facebook has to offer. But it’s fun getting more personality behind the handles we use here in the discussions.
CTuttle @ 60
doubly-f’ed
I’m not sure what do to do with mine because it wouldn’t let me register as Raven so i did raven1. I don;t know if it violates lake policy if I log in two ways?
Word has it that Fidel Castro is dead.
I’m going to go and check the AP wire.
Like this.
StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me — sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.
Wes Clark
http://ga4.org/campaign/stopiranwar
raven @ 69
Use something like Raven Firedoglake for the *facebook* name. Then register with FDL under just raven
the two names don’t have to ve the same.
raven1 @ 71
Well shit, can you stand any further from the camera? How can we assess your mileage at such a distance, bro?
peanutbutter @ 73
Sorry, I think I misunderstood…FDL wouldn’t let you register as raven?
Not sure what to do about that, that implies someone else is using that registered name here…????
raven1 @ 71
We know you and recognize that you’re not playing games with sock puppetry or anything along those lines
retirin’ in five @ 74
Wanted to get the “Vets for Peace” banner in there!
raven @ 69
FB wants first and last names, so you just need to add something. (I think some people have used ‘fdl’.)
peanutbutter @ 75
I dunno, it was a while back, I think it meant someone at FB had the handle.
perris @ 8
Perris,
The other thing we will hear is that violence is down and the comparison will be between now and pre-surge. I’ve been keeping a graph of 2006 vs 2007 coalition casualties at my blog for a while and it shows that the two years have exactly the same pattern in terms of the seasonality of deaths. The summer is just too hot and windy for much fighting. So of course casualties are down from the Winter and Spring.
Raven — couldn’t read that either until you pointed it out. We’ll let you off with a warning this time. Think wide-angle, up-close.
TRex @ 70
Did you find out anything, TRex? I can’t find a link for the AP wire.
realworld @ 80
that’s exactly how they planned the “6 months” thing as well, so that the seasons might play a hand on their behalf
spurious @ 82
I found a link that said Castro died in 1981.
spurious @ 82
Nothing, yet.
When I say the AP Wire, I am talking about a specific computer here in the control room of the radio station where I work that spits out the latest bulletins from the AP. Nothing on there yet, but an announcement is supposed to be coming later today.
spurious @ 82
I looked, couldn’t find it at AP or CNN.
TRex @ 85
I’m kinda thinking if bush left saddam alone this would have happened as well…with much less invested, much less strife, much less unrest, and with American integrity intact
ah me
I like that I could get a hold of someone on facebook if I really had a need to. Or for a private comment.
TRex @ 85
Thanks for keeping us posted. I could only find old stuff too (though somewhat later than 1981, twolf!)
How low can the numbers go for Bush and congress?
http://www.reuters.com/article…..liticsNews
Has the Bush administration granted Osama Bin Laden his wish “to witness the U.S. become a shadow of its former self”
retirin’ in five @ 81
It was an anti-war rally not a GQ shoot!~
Raven — no malice intended.
New thread.
Mods…is there a reason my 2 comments re Castro aren’t showing? Just wondering. Is it the link, or the subject. Thanks.
spurious @ 89
No mention in Cuban or Venezuelan newspapers
will it be OK to ask Representative McNerney about how he feels about opening a full-blown House Ethics Committee investigation of Rep. Don Young for Young’s insertion of the Coconut Grove earmark after the legislation had been signed off on by Congress?
Ed*ard Teller @ 96
Yes.
I wanted to say I am against the war, however is there anyway to get the help to the Iraqi people, 12,000 doctors have left the country and 2,000 doctors have been killed.
Kathleen @ 91
of course bush granted bin laden’s wish
from the very start it looks like bush is a soldier doing whatever bin laden bids;.
stand down when given presice intel of an attack sure to come?…done
‘don’t reprise until you know my soldiers are gone from the targets you intend on attacking?…done
“allow the bon lden family to leave without asking questions?…done
“don’t follow the money trail who financed the attack?…done
“stand down norak while under attack?…done
“attack Iraq if you begin to win the war against my insurgents, guaranteeing me the victory?…done
“stand down if you ever have me cornered, say like tora bora?…done
“disband the Iraqi police and army with their weaponry?…done
“don’t guard their cache of arsenol/…done
“don’t protect the hospitols, museums, temples, invite insurgents?…done
“make them wait in line for gas in their own oil rich nation?…done
“torture inocent people and help me recruit terrorists?…done
man, I have tons more but my fingers grow too weary, maybe someone else can add to my list till I get back
the point is, if this were written in a novel nobody would beleive we are so stupid as to not connect these dots
this is pretty friggin obvious
LS @ 94
Something with the link hit our filters. Anyway, I’m hearing (just as unreliably) that it’s not true.
Jane Hamsher @ 100
Yeah, I’ve searched all over. It sounds like a bunch of rumors. He apparently had surgery is and is recovering according to several google news reports. The link I found said there was police mobilization in Miami…but, it’s all just talk at this point.
realworld @ 80
I made a graph of this too a couple of days ago though I had nowhere to post it. 2007 death rates are higher but are showing the seasonality you mention. 2005 and 2006 are very similar. 2004 is atypical because of the two sieges of Falluja and the two spikes in deaths associated with them.
re: The Big Tent for Democrats
Ha! We’re all in a tizzy because McNerney seems to have moved a little from the Progressive platform that so many of us supported last year.
But here in Hawaii, things have been in a bit of an uproar for the past week because long-time Republican and rabid gay-basher Mike Gabbard all of a sudden wants to become a Democrat, so that local Progressives became alarmed (see entries for August 21). It turns out that there are NO litmus tests for being a Democrat in Hawaii; you don’t even have to support the platform of the Democratic Party. So, formally, there’s nothing to prevent Gabbard from becoming a Democrat. Of course there are certain things he would have to give up– like endorsing Republican Candidates.
But hey, that “Big Tent” tactic has worked here in Hawaii: Democrats have a veto-proof majority in both houses of the state legislature, so that they can tell our Republican Governor to STFU any time they want to. If they can all get on the same page about anything. Which they have occasionally done (11 times this year).
This is not to say that I think our Representatives ought to be allowed to become marshmallows as soon as they’re elected. We need to hold McNerney and others whom we supported accountable. Kudos to him that he is willing to come engage with us on these issues.
Bob in HI
retirin’ in five @ 92
Course not, sheet I’m ugly as a hog rootin in manure anyways. There are a couple of shots on me and my bride on my FB.
raven1 @ 105
I’m tubes-challenged and can’t get past the simple log-in without help from a higher authority — my daughter. I’ll see if she can’t get me into FB some weekend.
Hugh @ 102
hugh!!!!
email me anything you want posted – i am happy to host for you… duh!
The Lurking Mod @ 76
Heh, we gotta get up mighty early to pull a fast one on Ya’ll…!!! ;-)
CTuttle @ 107
I loves the mods.
selise @ 106
I’m always saying thanks to you. Anyway I just tried to send it so we’ll see if it arrives. The chart contains the data for 2005, 2006, and through July 2007.
One big thing I disagree with: I think it is very premature to be talking about withdrawl of support of an office holder based on a few comments reported by a biased press.
I think the one hope we have of making a difference is to get a critical mass of new progressive Congress people. That is not going to work if important decisions about support and strategy are made within a two week period based on a couple of quotes in press articles written by interested hacks.
I am very disappointed by McNerney’s comments, or how they were reported, but we need to see how this unfolds over more time, what his statements and votes are after Congress is back in session in fall.
I hope people are polite and provide well thought out and concise statements of their positions and ask good questions.
I am more interested in finding out what McNerney’s thinking is on what to do over next six months than piling on over a couple of quotes I find distrubing.
Hugh @ 109
and thanks right back at ya.
i didn’t get it… will email you…