Sen. Joe Biden’s first ad in Iowa.
I’m not really a Biden fan, but I like this ad. Something about the starkness here, just the candidate and the camera, and an up front discussion on the realities that families are facing when they have a loved one serving in Iraq, that works for me. Maybe it is because Biden’s son, Beau, is set to be deployed to Iraq in the next few months, but whatever it is with this — staging, reality setting in, whatever — it works as a way to get to the heart of all the public dissatisfaction and disgust, even if that isn’t what Biden ultimately intended with this.
There is a gritty quality to Biden in this ad that works. That slick overly-whitened smile and sly grin and handshake retail politics act that he does has been sluffed off for a harsh glimpse of the consequences of the bad choices we have made the last few years. He’d do well to keep this version front and center.
Still not a Biden fan, but this ad hits at a gut level with a reality check on just how long we could be in Iraq — the line about sending your grandchildren is an effective one. What do you guys think?
PS — I’ll be on Thom Hartmann’s show on Air America today beginning around 2:30 pm ET-ish. Wanted to give folks a heads up. You can listen live here.
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zed
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Try, try again…
hi christy
Good Morning… now back to see the video..
Great ad that reflects the real message in clear terms.
Morning Christy, morning all.
Not a biden fan by any means, but interesting, I agree…
I think every and any Democratic candidate we’ve got shines like the sun compared to the toad-peepers on the other side.
Excellent ad – the mention of “grandchildren” was very to the point and should be eye-opening for people.
Thanks for the good post as always.
From the NYTimes today:
Ahem. Now what? More history lessons from Chimpy?
The ad is not bad. But my impression of Joe Biden is that he’s an actor who can only supress his male peacock tendancies for a few minutes of commercial time.
Twain at 10 — That’s what I thought as well. It really laid things out in stark terms — unusual for Biden and his tendency towardthe verbose, I have to say. Which may be why this had more of an impact on some level.
But the grandchildren reference hit home with me in a clear, gut-level way…and I wondered if it would for everyone else as well.
Good morning Christy. It is a good ad, and the Dems can follow up with . . . “if we follow Bush’s advice and keep fighting forever, just as he said we should have done in Vietnam, we will be sending our grandkids to Iraq. Those people in the WH are crazy, and they were cowards when it was their turn. Enough.” Just that simple.
BTW. I really love the ACLU ad. It does make Reid and Pelosi look to cute though.
He’s in the pockets of Citibank and other corporations. He voted for the repressive bankruptcy bill. He is more of the same.
I will say this. I very much admire Joe’s take on “retail politics”. And I think I’d rather have him than a couple of other Demo presidential candidates.
As to the ad, I like it!!! This kind of straight talk is what many of us Democrats thirst for.
will be listening this pm. try and keep tom from his verbal flow. I want to hear you!
Alert– September 15 Washington DC. March March March! This one should be pushed on every single campus across the country. The colleges are back and it is time!!!!!!! Even the candidates should show up!!!!!!
mui @ 15
In the past we have referred to the
repug base as “sheeple” and now we have our very own. It’s awful.
Biodun @ 11
Well, now… the surge was supposed to make it possible for Maliki to meet the milestones. Now, Bush thinks Maliki can’t meet the milestones, so he must be replaced. Doesn’t that mean the surge failed?
OMG my first thought is that he is going to get attacked for mentioning the casket.
Very good, hits the gut, reading the book Political Brain, hits the network items – 4th trip, cathedral, family, grandchildren.
Hi Christy! I’ll be listening to Thom today, I know you’ll knock em dead (as usual)!
Prairie Sunshine @ 9
That’s not saying much.
Che’s Lounge at 16 – And did you miss the part where I said I’m not really a Biden fan?
Scarecrow @ 14
The coward meme is one that definitely should be pushed. It sums up all these guys. Can’t hunt unless it’s in a cage, can’t fish unless it’s in a barrel…
No-Guts Bush and Cheney have never fought a battle of their own in their lives.
Edwards has it right–Bush’s GWOT is one big p.r. stunt. And there are real dangers out there that are not being dealt with because the pussy boys are playin’ for the brand.
JF @ 20
Nope, it just hasn’t totally succeeded yet, and it’s all Maliki’s fault. Replace him and keep the surge going for a few more months and there’ll be real progress.
No, really. This time for sure.
I got a one word response to this ad. It’s my one word response to all the dem candidates.
Kucinich.
Che’s Lounge @ 16
I agree. I live in Iowa and have seen the ad a few times. I like that he is raising the Iraq issue in blunt and concise terms. It is 10 times better than HRC’s invisible people commercial.
I believe the Bankruptcy bill has directly caused the current mortgage industry woes. No one wants to talk about that though.
one of my grandsons could be in iraq next year if there was a draft.
as we all know, there is no reason we need to be in Iraq to protect this country, and there are many reasons we should be out of Iraq to protect this country, and there was no good reason for us having gone there in the first place.
i agree with you, Christy. i’m not a Joe Biden fan but he sure got this spot right, and he has gotten some others right as well. that said,
i think John Edwards should be the Democratic candidate in 2008.
It is a powerful ad. Straight to the point, clear and concise. I am sick unto death of dems who namby-pamby along trying to play nice when so much is at stake. Reason and compromise do not work with republicans, they have been running a scorched earth policy for too long. It’s all they know.
I’m still not much of a Biden fan,though.
I like the ad. But truth be told, Biden has no chance of being nominated. He’s been around too long, and is part of the Dem establishment at a time when the electorate is ready for change. I’ll grant him his extensive knowledge of fororeign policy though.
Biden has the tone of a poet in this piece; Biden is quite a good rhetorician when his ten pages is edited down to one page double-spaced.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 24
& really. Which of us ladies wouldn’t be a Biden fan dazzled by those pearly whites and the male posturing? /snark.
Susceptibility is not an issue with Christy or any of us. Even if a commercial was well done.
mui @ 15
Linky?
well produced, not over produced… looks good – like the ad, makes me wish I liked Biden better…
coffee’s brewin’ – done in a few… ‘morning all…
karnak12 @ 34
Top right corner of this page.
karnak12 @ 33
It’s running at the top right corner of the FDL home page. At least it was a few minutes ago.
There is no perfect candidate.
karnak12 @ 34
Upper right hand corner of the page you are on.
I like the ad, but Biden isn’t for me.
He wouldn’t do a thing I needed done: Universal health care, bankruptcy reform, housing foreclosure reform, the whole help-me-I’m-drowning thing. He is able-bodied but won’t throw the life ring; at least that’s my perception.
Stiff in a suit.
There will be actions in DC almost every day in September, get the schedule at codepinkalert.com and at washingtonpeacecenter.net, among other places, of course.
billjpa @ 18
I have wondered if Vietnam vets who passionately & angrily believe we should not have left Vietnam & that we should stay in Iraq do so because the thought that these wars were a grave error is too painful to even contemplate.
From Joe Trippi’s letter in my inbox this morning:
The other day, I said word has it that this is right out of Rove’s playbook.
I react to this somewhat differently. I wonder if not sending our grandchildren means leaving a stable Iraq behind. I worry that that is just code for spending more time in Iraq to “make it come out right”.
JF @ 36
Thanks, I blew right by that. I’m not much of a Biden fan though. Liked the ad.
Christy,
I agree. This is an excellent aid. Short, crisp, to the point, no fluff. I would like to see more ads like this one from the Democrats.
BTW: Thanks for the heads up about the Thom Hartmann Show. I will be listening. I am always thrilled when I can hear my favorite bloggers the radio/tv. My head is spinning from all of the madness in the world. But you and Jane and the gang are one of my links to sanity. You guys give me hope. I am constantly amazed at the intelligence, wit and wisdom idisplayed in the posts at FireDogLake. Thank You….
Is it time to hold many consumers responsible for getting themselves into this debt mess?
whoever wins the Dem nomination should hire Joe’s ad people.
I think the ad is effective because it is so stark.
I’d like to see more ads, ones just as effective from all the candidates — and from others, too, anything to bring this madness to an end.
The ad didn’t work for me (which may in part be due to the fact that I’m also not a fan of Biden) and I don’t think it’ll play in the heartland either. Stark does work but the drama build up in the beginning sets it up as just another politician using soldiers (and in this instance dead ones) as props. There’s a fine line and I don’t think Biden’s ad manages to walk it.
realworld @ 44
Of course that’s what it means. Besides being a shallow, vain, garrulous little man with hair plugs, Biden is the worst of the lot on Iraq. He is the one who has openly advocated partitioning Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12572371/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
Personal accountability? How refreshingly quaint. Though I must say when we were purchasing our house our lender was pushing hard for either an ARM or interest-only type loan. Touting how much more house we could buy with the lower payments, etc. When I questioned what happens when rates go up or the fact that we would only be paying interest and not building equity he got with the program and set up the traditional loan we asked for. Sadly many folks just do not do their homework and fall for pie in the sky promises.
Speaking of the as running on FDL, please take a little time today to click through them. These wonderful folks help pay for our servers and such, and we do appreciate you taking the time to look at their information. The click thru helps us get more ads in the future. Thanks!
Edwards going after corporate cronies - of either party:
Edwards also planned to tell voters they can’t simply replace “a group of corporate Republicans with a group of corporate Democrats, just swapping the Washington insiders of one party for the Washington insiders of the other.”
Gotta love that!
Elliott @ 49
I think the ad would be more effective if it were starker still: just the prairie absent Biden.
I like the ad a lot. We need Joe Biden around the federal government, around our next president. He will say what he thinks. He will not be the next president, but we are lucky to have him and Dodd and Kucinich run.
We need their voices.
We need their courage to speak up against the machine. They are in the race to SPEAK, to say things that one of the front runners may edit.
We are fortunate that the race is long and the
Democratic field is deep. Americans need to hear the discussions that are generated by a large group.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Sen…..tm#Energy_ _Oil
Here’s a link to his voting record which, I admit, is more progressive than most others, with the exception of Kucinich. But he needs to distance himself from the corporatists. You cna’t be pro union and still be on the take of the corporatists. But He would still be better than Hillary.
I hope the link works. Bear with me.
Thanks for reminding us of that.
OT
Doug Grindle, freelance journalist, showing his recent trip through Iraq with the 10th Mountain Division. C-SPAN 1
ironranger @ 42
Ok, I’ll try a different answer. Some of us came home and were so outraged at the war that we tried to do something about it. Part of what drove us was the fact that we lost good people for what we thought was nothing. Others came home and stuffed it. They went back to doing what they did and tried to forget it. There were lots of people in Vietnam who were doing positive things. I am not trying to justify the war, I am just saying there we individuals and units that were trying to help the Vietnamese. It is very hard for a lot of vets to absorb or admit that we were wrong, especially if their friends died doing what they perceived as something good. So, 35 years later it’s easier to look back and say we got screwed by the left than it is to think about what really happened. This despite the fact that anyone with the slightest curiosity can study the war and see how we got involved, I think they called it “A Bright Shining Lie”.
I sent this link to jane, I think this is a great find, maybe some of you guys read it back when it was first published in rolling stone but I didn’t
http://www.rollingstone.com/po…..ck_cheney/
first, I didn’t even know cheney failed out of yale, if I don’t know it and I hate cheney, then hardly anyone knows it
that has to change but check out my bold from the article;
man, that is a great article, we have to start laughing at the guy who makes believe he’s an intelect as the failing out of yale drop out that he is
Biden might a good Sec. of State. As long as he follows Edwards’s policy to the letter.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
An error on my part. I will take more time to do that in the future.
On another note, thanks for spotlighting this take on Biden.
thanks for the bankruptcy bill, Joe!
we won’t forget.
Good grief. This is what comes from accidently ending up on the dscc.org mailing list:
From James Carville (Mary Matalin’s better(?) half):
Baaaaah, Baaaah!
Biodun @ 62
Good god no. I’d rather have Richardson.
IrishJim @ 28
Why do you believe that? What is the chain of causation?
OT but speaking about Christy on Hartmann. What in Gods name is up with this Lionel jerk on Air America. Any chance they will get rid of him. I turn off Air America from 9-12 because I can’t stand him – his attitude, his voice and his ideas (or rather his lack thereof). Major mistake.
JF @ 20
Mornin’ Christy! I will listen to you this pm.
One function of the primary season is to move the dialogue forward any way possible … this ad does that. My first hopes for Edwards that as long as he was in the game he could significantly move the dialogue: he’s doing better than that and it’s really good to see.
The surge is A HUGE SUCCESS!!!!! But well, you know, Maliki just hasn’t turned out well. So choose another puppet and a new message and lather, rinse, repeat. More nonsense. How about we try real sovereignty in Iraq and get out. Now.
mui @ 65
Perhaps it’s an attempt to connect with the 29%-ers, who are only able to process information in teensy little bites?
One basic flaw in Chimpy’s so-called Vietnam “analogy” (what I’ve called association):
In Vietnam we were fighting a standing North Vietnamese army (OK, mixed with Vietcong guerrilas). In Iraq we’re fighting a ragtag farrago of Shiite and Sunni militias; Al Qaeda in Iraq; generic jihadists using the war as a training ground; and Baathist insurgents.
These ads on FDL are great.
Each on offers me the opportunity to do something to help: my fellow Americans’ privacy, our children and animals. What could be better?
madmommy @ 70
And, they will also have to pass it by Rove first to make sure they won’t get counterattacked for it ;-
MayDaze @ 54
It’s nothing but the truth afterall. However I can see him having fundraising problems. Corporate america perfers a candidate that they can “work” with.
madmommy @ 70
Whatever it is, it’s completely pathetic. Bahhhh. Democratic voters are not sheeple.
Richmond @ 73
You think Mary Matalin gave her hubby some input?
burnspbesq @ 67
I am no fan of the new “bankruopcy law”, everyone knows that but the default on a homeowners loan is the house, the bank takes the risk here
the problem is the relaxation of requirements.
the only reason banks can even take the risk of homeowners loans in most cases is fanny may, this is a social program that mitigates some of the risk lenders take
however there are still risks, when a loan fails the bank still has to assume the reponsibility
here’s what happened
for the longest while, homes were improving in value…,this actually made a loan with terrible terms into a loan with not so bad terms, because a person would literally be banking on the improved value of that home, refinancing when the rates went up…this might work very nicely for a sophisticated buyer
but we cannot count on homes in constant progression of value, especially an inflated progression
the inflated progression happened becuase loans were so easy to get, everyone wanted a home and the prices went up
so it was the tail wagging the dog
then when the rates go up and the persons house value didn’t improve enought to comensate for a refinacne, that person would default
and here we are today
mui @ 76
Gee, ya think??? Just the thought of those two requires me to get out the brain bleach.
Jack Jacobs debunking Bush’s rewrite of military history on MSNBC.
I may disagree with his politics, but I respect the candor Jacobs brings.
Regarding the ACLU ad: If you don’t like those sheep, perhaps you’ll like these a bit better?
http://www.blacksheep-themovie.com/
MayDaze @ 54
Edwards speaks for me.
Raven@60
That was very well expressed! You pretty much summed it up. There are many, a majority, I believe, who cannot, simply will not, admit that it was all for naught. They can’t get their collective heads around anything except that all those names on that long black wall, all those people crowding those VA Hospitals & Clinics, all those damaged folks out there, that all just had to mean something.
They will damn well fight you over it, too.
Why don’t we like Biden more? I don’t really know why. The veneer, the peacock maybe. The incessant blab. But Biden is one of the best and brightest. He seems to speak the truth whenever he is on. He is firm and consistent. I wish we was doing better actually.
fdl reader @ 81
somebody needs to contact the edwards campaign and get him to add to his platform that he will remove the “clerk error” which illegally awarded personhood to corproations
man, that will set his campaign on fire
Get rid of the DLC.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 46
I agree there must be personal accountability. But we live in a new ERA where you do not get hired by a company and retire 30 years later.
If you have been downsized and it takes 6 or 8 months to find a new job, it will be devastating financially. In the past, under bankruptcy laws, you could file and get relief from the Credit Card and Consumer Debt.
That is no longer the case. You are now court ordered to pay back 100% of the Consumer Debt that carried interest rates of 15 to 21%. You must also pay Attorney fees to “handle” your re-payment plan through the courts. The credit card companies are getting their money at the expense of the mortgage companies. People will simply walk away from a big house payment – pay cheap rent somewhere and pay off their credit cards through the courts.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
Well put, sir.
Home ownership is a big part of the traditional “American dream.” Lately, however, in many parts of this country (including my home, Orange County), the combination of stagnant-or-declining real wages, increasing job insecurity, and an out-of-control housing market has made it impossible for middle-income people to buy except by using non-traditional, highly risky lending vehicles. The widespread use of teaser rates, 100-percent-LTV financing, etc. made the current crunch essentially inevitable.
There is a lot of real human tragedy in these stories, but for me I’m not seeing a compelling reason for a bailout.
Raven,
I’ve always been troubled that when the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, basically in early 1973, and then cut off funding and spare parts, the U.S. was consigning a lot of South Vietnamese (not to mention Cambodians) to a dire fate.
The situation is different in Iraq.
We don’t have any friends there, to speak of. The Iraqi people want us out.
Different wars — in many ways.
Raven@60:
Thanks, that was my thinking but it’s good to hear from someone who has been there.
We humans tell ourselves bright shining lies about a lot of issues in our lives.
nonplussed @ 82
I have a cousin, Marine grunt at the Hill fights. He got busted for dealing, went to the federal pen and still is a die-hard right winger. I cannot figure it our for shit, they would have locked him up for life if they could have and he still buys their shit.
Meanwhile, please help me figure this one out (interview with the “Intelligence Czar” Mike McConnell re: FISA):
This is sort of last thread, but here goes. One of the things that pissed me off the most about Chimpy’s speech yesterday was implying that the US pullout was responsible for the genocide in Cambodia. This morning there was a piecein my local paper that had a interesting fact in it.
I feel ill.
Jonathan @ 88
read Frank Snepp’s “Decent Interval” if you haven’t. We could have gotten way more people out if we hadn’t been so inept.
mui @ 65
Oh, yeah, hoo boy. Check out the totally lame and disgusting video … which I couldn’t get to play the whole way through.
This is a disaster, making fun of the whole process. Kerry has a ‘you write out next ad’ campaign up and it’s not at all bad. But this is pure insulting crap.
Oh, and I guess this means Carville is working for our side???? It’s “official?” Uh-oh.
burnspbesq @ 86
the conditions which have created the mess we’re in was not created by the little guy trying to buy a home before they got priced out of a crazy market. i’m for going after the systemic problems – and not blaming it on the people with the least power to affect the system.
The next generation cometh.
The next George W. Bush is gonna be happy as a clam….
Richmond @ 68
Completely agreed.
The cargo plane as cathedral was a stroke of genius. It hits you in the gut. And we need to see more of this “from the heart” kind of talk in these ads. Wonky statistics kind of talk should be mostly saved for stump speeches and talk show rounds.
Biodun @ 91
The boogie man is comming to get you, and we are the only ones who can stop it. But first you have to just trust us, we know what we’re doing. AKA “be afraid, ooga, booga, BOO!!”
Re: bankrupcy; consumer debt; subprime mortages; and so on:
I’ve said before here that sadly and unfortunately, the Aemrican Dream is not for everyone. It’s not being callous; it’s the cold reality.
I gotta admit, I’m kind of a closet Biden fan. I also like him better than several other potential candidates. To me, he’s been that firethrower we all keep asking for but not seeing when it happens. I’ve seen Biden on TV about this war saying things nobody else seemed to want to say before it was popular to say them. Still he always gets criticized because of his hair and his teeth and people remember plagerism and forget entirely what his message is. It all gets dismissed because nobody wants to believe this messenger. I know he bloviates, I believe he knows that too. But sometimes I really wish people would pay more attention to the message than to killing the messenger. Biden’s a smart guy even if he does sometimes say some dumb things and say them too much. I believe the political landscape is better off with him than without him. I’d say I like him at least as much as I like Hillary, and I think he’d be as good a president as she would. If given my choice, though, it would be neither one. It would still be Gore, by far.
I’m a “litle guy”.
burnspbesq @ 66
I wrote this above:
You are now court ordered to pay back 100% of the Consumer Debt that carried interest rates of 15 to 21%. You must also pay Attorney fees to “handle” your re-payment plan through the courts. The credit card companies are getting their money at the expense of the mortgage companies. People will simply walk away from a big house payment – pay cheap rent somewhere and pay off their credit cards through the courts
perris @ 84
Ah yes, The county of Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific. That case should become the Dred Scott of the left.
The “system”. I’m weary of that term. We create the system.
burnspbesq @ 87
Lionel on AAR totally sucks. What were they thinking? Time to send AAR another email asking how long a contract they gave this guy.
Raven at 93
Thanks for the tip re Snepp’s book.
He knew the real deal.
Today is the first day I’m seriously considering that Edwards could win.
A lifetime ago I worked on the 1980 Kennedy campaign under Trippi and Sasso, Jack Corrigan and Susan Estrich.
Our campaign slogan was “Sailing Against the Wind”.
Sailing Against the Wind – it’s how a sailboat makes forward progress against a wind coming at it. A little to the right of it, tack, a little to the left of it…
I don’t know, maybe I’m maudlin.
Maybe it could work.
montag @ 96
shudder!
raven @ 92:
We’ve mentioned Frank Snepp at FDL before. He was one courageous mofo. A friend of mine was dating him when I was living in NYC in the 1980s. He’s drifted into the media over the years. Currently living in Los Angeles.
Last night I got a call from Edwards campaign asking for a monthly pledge. It’s a long shot at this point but I signed up for as much as I thought I could afford. JE is no pure progressive but he is the best one with a real shot should he get the nomination.
I believe we create the situations under which we live. Either through action or inaction.
tiny tim @ 64
Amen.
Joe sold his soul to MBNA. And what did he get for his money?
Thousands of MBNA jobs moved out of Delaware.
fdl reader @ 94
Why they let him anywhere near Democratic strategy I’ll never know. The man is the very definition of conflict of interest.
texasblue @ 83
Biden is firmly and consistently for his largest contributors. MBNA was a prime mover of the bankruptcy bill, was headquartered in his home state, and was one of Biden’s largest campaign contributors.
His support of the bill was a foregone conclusion, and he proved that during the hearings. He was, in those, utterly, absolutely, completely despicable toward anyone who suggested that the bill was going to be the bane of the working poor and the middle class.
His dedication to the corporate/elite class is transparent. And, for many, many years, he’s been a walking encyclopedia of conventional wisdom. I don’t think this guy’s had an original idea in his life.
Some of the most disgruntled don’t even bother to vote.
More Jacobs on MSNBC re “striking errors” in Bush’s speech.
Truth. On the media. ’bout damn time.
Pretty friggin’ stark for Joe Biden. Is this part of the plan to roll out the NEW Joe?
Impossible to blog while building a powerpoint presentation…
selise @ 95
What “conditions” and “systemic problems” are those? How did they come about? And how would you propose to fix them?
Boston1775 @ 109
Not maudlin at all. I like it. Inspirational. Seems all of us here are having to sail against the wind these days.
Woodhall Hollow @ 98
I agree – a very good ad – and directly or indirectly he got an awful lot into those 30 seconds. Plus the understated emotion was believable.
realworld @ 113
Amen.
fdl reader @ 120
As long as it’s a Master and Commander kinda thing, not sailboarding….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 103
well, i didn’t know that you told greenspan to lower interest rates to the point where they were lower than the inflation rate and so savings were losing purchasing power and putting people further and further behind in the quest to save for a down payment. and did you also tell him to advocate for ARMs – at the time when people could have gotten a fixed mortgage at the lowest rate in a generation?
and are you responsible for the deregulation of the mortgage industry and lack of regulation or transparency of the hedge funds?
are you responsible for 30 years of stagnent wages and 6 years of falling wages for the majority of american workers?
did you design our fucked up trade policies that have undermined workers rights and good jobs here in america?
well, if you answer yes to all of this (and all my other questions i won’t bore you with now)… then i’m happy to hold you responsible.
….
i’m not saying we all aren’t somewhat responsible for the mess we’re in – but i reject utterly the notion that the hardship that results from that mess should fall on those who have less power to change the system and less resources to cope with the fallout.
707! Them’s great questions indeed.
Biodun @ 122
I believe he will handily win Iowa. He is doing everything right and has spent enough time building his organization here.
selise @ 125
Have a real good day. ;0)
OT, but a small piece of insanity to brighten up the morning.
An Atlanta city councilman is proposing a municipal dress code to be added to the city’s existing ordinance that bans sex in public.
Wanna guess which segment of Atlanta society’s prevailing modes of dress would be most directly affected by the new dress code?
Re: “system”:
OTOH, selise @ 125 has tried to unpack
burnspbesq’s questions @ 120.
No one can know the true effects of a needless war more than those who have put their own lives on the line or had family members do so. When one attempts to feel the impact of so many Americans who have lost their lives and the tens of thousands who been injured in this war of choice. And then add in the immense death and destruction that has needlessly taken place in Iraq it is not hard to take the next step and repeatedly demand that those who created and dessiminated false intelligence before the invasion and all of the war pushers and liars be held accountable,
This is by far the very least that our reps can do for those who have lost their lives in this immoral and criminal war in Iraq.
I am sorry to say that it seems that we may be in Iraq for a very long time. I believe that was the plan from the beginning.
Bones and Blood are the price of oil in Iraq.
selise @ 124
Plus I believe lenders have a moral responsibility to refuse credit to high risk borrowers. I’ve been in a position where a lending institution gave me bad advice and enough credit to do me in financially – in my case RSP loans and a line of credit for my business – and while I have some responsibility (I tried to stay in our house after a divorce) I don’t think it’s 100% by any means.
IrishJim @ 127
Never “enough”…take nothing for granted…presume nothing. And I think Edwards works exactly that way.
burnspbesq @ 128
One thing for sure–it’s not about plaid shirts, bib overalls and shitkicker boots….
Boston1775 @ 109
As long as he tacks left most of the time… ;)
Arizona school suspends boy for sketching gun.
And the ‘War On Little Boys’ is thriving.
brendan @ 51
I’m not so sure that partitioning Iraq is a bad idea. The country was fabricated during the post-WW1 break-up of the Ottoman Empire. The way I see it, splitting the area into Kurdistan, Shi’astan and Sunni-land might put an end to the sectarian battles.
Can they get away with this?
kathleen @ 131
Well a case could be made that it is the Iraqis who have the best understanding of the costs of war. Just saying.
I think the old adage “we have met the enemy, and it is us” holds true now more than ever.
If you want to change the “system” become involved.
burnspbesq @ 119
1) the housing bubble, the stagnant or declining real wages at a time while that productivity is increasing dramatically. job and health insecurity. things like that – or do you want a more comprehensive list?
2) i’m not an expert – but it sure looks like trade policy, fiscal policy, fed policy, regulatory policy were some of the big contributors.
3) i never claimed to have the answers – but there’s lots of good ideas out there: universal single payer health insurance, the fair trade movement, progressive tax reform, corporate governance reform,… let’s ask ian next time he posts here.
snowbird42 @ 137
Ya think?
The NYObserver (and I think most of us) believes that Joe-Lie has lost it:
Last paragraph from the LA Times editorial:
The real lesson of Vietnam is that its civil war was a nationalist struggle that toppled no communist “dominoes” across Asia. Bush’s rhetoric implying an Al Qaeda “domino effect” in the Middle East has the same false ring.
LINK
Brisingamen @ 135
The area’s historians would probably disagree with you. There was, in fact, a very strongly indigenous nationalistic response to British occupation of Iraq, starting in 1920, for example.
Beyond that, this was the plan (the Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco, Conoco-Phillips, Halliburton-Cheney, BP plan) all along. Create chaos, invite and encourage sectarian and tribal strife, divide and conquer. Frankly, it ought to be obvious by now, considering that we’re arming virtually all sides of the struggle.
Fern @ 132
Watching the credit card industry and the mortgage mess, it’s the built-in conflict of interest these companies have that is driving this I think. Lots of mistakes being made because of greed but the basic problem is these companies are trying to INCREASE the number of customers and the amount they are making from them.
So, someone who wants to lend me money is not my friend. They want to make the interest from me.
And at some point all the potential customers are “signed up” with as much (or more) debt than they can manage. So how can the company increase their income? Only by finding new customers, which we see means changing the qualification rules.
And Bushco makes it all work out in the end by relaxing the protections that the consumer had from themselves and the companies.
What a mess. But understandable in market terms. Sell the product to more and more customers. That’s the goal.
Re: Allawi
I certainly hope not.
montag @ 133
I don’t know about that. Besides targeting the hip hop types, it could strike a mighty blow against plumbers butt.
Brisingamen @ 136
Ain’t goina work. Even before the Ottoman’s this area was under one rule. Plus the Sunni area has no oilad if you create a separate Kurdistan, the Turks will invade – it is the last thing they want. This whole division and live peacefully thing is just the liberal neo-con version of things. Dead on Arrival, like the other neo-con ideas.
Brisingamen @ 136
Have you really thought this over? Biden’s putting yourself in the company of Ribbentrop and Molotov, who similarly to this argument about the artificiality of Iraq, called Poland the “bastard” of Versailles. You’re ignoring the experience of Yugoslavia. Above all this, it’s immoral and arrogant to presume to reengineer Iraq after we destroyed the Iraqi state. Also, not least of all: who do you think really wants Iraq partitioned? The Israelis want a void in the heart of the Arab world, just the way the Soviets demanded a divided Germany as a condition of their security. Don’t be suckered by these blithe prescriptions for redrawing maps.
Prairie Sunshine @ 132
You are right. I should have said is spending the neccessary time to achieve success.
fdl reader @ 146
Even in “market terms” there are rules. You are not allowed to commit suicide and have your family receive insurance. You are not allowed to speed and wreck other’s cars without having your insurance rates go up. For this mess there was no penalty in place for immoral business activities.
Brisingamen @ 135
may i recommend this post from siun?
Wow. I just watched the ad. Good stuff. But like the rest, I’m still no Biden fan. If he was like this every time he’s on teevee, he’d be in the lead.
(I was here with the early morning coffee crowd. I am taking a break and seeing wassup.)
Biden will always have his Neil Kinnock problem. It was sufficient to scuttle his candidacy in the past, does he believe that it will fly in this era of relaxed ethical standards?
biodun quotes from joe trippi’s letter at 43-”Don’t take it from me—take it from Rove’s own lieutenant on the Bush-Cheney 2004 reelection campaign, Matthew Dowd: “Whomever we attacked was going to be emboldened in Democratic primary voters’ minds. So we started attacking John Kerry a lot in the end of January because we were very worried about John Edwards.” [Los Angeles Times, 8/19/07] “
notice the date, i keep wondering about this…..why on earth would he say that now, right in the middle of the dem’s primary? another head fake? who is he working for now? why would he say this now?
Fern @ 132
Wish in one hand, shit in the other. See which one fills up faster.
I worked in risk management with a subprime credit card issuer for 5 years until early 2005. One new strategy that helped drive me out the door was the practice of bundling and securitizing blocks of accounts for holder-in-due-course sale in the securities markets.
e.g., you book, say, 100,000 new accounts, each with a credit line of $1,000. Now, we know that subbies typically run all the way up to max utilization within 5 months, so 6 months out we could pack up and unload a “securitization pool” comprised of 100,000 accounts with a nominal present face value of ~$100 million. These bundles would have a speculative risk-adjusted future value that buyers would bid on.
Once sold, we were off the hook for the debt risk. Lotta handsome fees to be made all around during the process.
Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat….
Same shit has been going down with other debt platforms such as mortgages. At some point, someone gets left holding the bag once there’s a “downturn.” But, hey, our execs, are all driving Lexuses and living in posh digs.
During the real estate uptick period commencing in 2003 (my house “doubled” in “value” in just 3 years), lenders just had to verify that you had a pulse and a bit of EEG response to write you a loan.
“The Best Things in life are FEE.”
Now, LOL, Congress will likely bail out THE LENDERS! The homebuyer or credit card customer saps that took on this unmanageable crap debt, well, they wil be hounded for payment unrelentingly.
dmac @ 157
He has a kid in Iraq.
What is astounding is that George W. Bush was re-elected. Must be the system.
Biodun @ 142
Well, just supposing Lieberliar is right about the number of al qaeda types who go through Damascus airport. Where do they come from (worth noting that there are no direct flights from Damascus to Baghdad)? Not Syria. In fact there is no evidence that any of the al qaeda types in Iraq are from Syria. No, they are mostly from Saudi Arabia. And what Joe does not mention is that the Saudi newspapers are up in arms about the number of Saudis who have been arrested and jailed by the Syrians as they try to get to the Iraq/Syrian border.
Yeah, Joe has really gone off the deep end.
Re: partition of Iraq:
This is complicated either way. Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Yugoslavia were all fabricated from the ruins of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires post-WWI. History has developed in all sorts of directions since then. And also specific political, social, economic, and even religious conditions and forces have arisen wrt these fabricated countries since then. To use one country as an example of what should happen to the the other is quite simply a mistake.
I’m sorry to fly off the handle, but I am capable of showing respect for any other candidate, even Clinton. Biden, though, just deserves to be met with jeers and howls of derision. He didn’t just vote for AUMF like his weakling competitors, he is totally on board with PNAC project for Iraq, even in its most extreme prescription of partition.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…
fdl reader @ 146
I was wondering too if there are not cozy deals between real estate agents and the lenders – it is in the agent’s interest as well that the loan gets written.
To be, or not to be…a new thread….
Bush hammin’ it up in new thread.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 160
OKK, Bush’s Brain set up a system of payments to corporations, congregations and contractors. Billions of dollars are systematically being paid to people as we speak to keep the Republican party in play.
It’s a system of payoffs.
Boston1775 @ 168
Not very comforting.
Fern @ 139
I agree completely!
The MSM has basically been complacent in truely sharing the brutal reality on the ground in Iraq. The right wing radicals who lied our nation into this needless war fully understood the hatred between the Sunni’s and Shiites. I believe that an enviroment was created so that the anger and hatred between these two groups could manifest and turn violent and the illegal invasion of Iraq by the U.S. provided a perfect enviroment where this violence could take place.
Similar to the protection that Ariel Sharon and the Israeli army provided for the Christian Phalangist in the Sabra and Shatilla massacre.
brendan @ 151
First, I’m not saying the US or anyone else should divvy it up.
I don’t think fragmentation can be prevented, nor do I think the US should be in the middle of it. The fact that we’re arming all the dogs in the fight indicates that the fighting there is going to go on for a very long time.
Also, the country may not fragment into three distinct entities — I think it’s more likely to disintegrate into tribes.
plovering at 136 says-”
Arizona school suspends boy for sketching gun.
And the ‘War On Little Boys’ is thrivin”
my best friend teaches art at a catholic high school, and the kids, young adults, can draw and express whatever they want, she just reminds them that it won’t be diplayed in the hallway if that’s what they’re gonna do…..their projects on war last year were incredible…..those did get posted in the hallway………
her kids express all kinds of things, some disturbing, and they talk about it…….
Ann in AZ @ 101
Hmmm. That’s a risky argument to make. There are many people such as myself who think Clinton would be a disastrous president. Not as disastrous as Bush, perhaps, but he isn’t running.
If you like this ad, that’s great. But I live in Iowa, and despite the fact that I, too, like the ad, that was overshadowed by the fact that on the day I saw it, I also saw Mitt Romney’s foul and despicable ad about how he hates immigrants. It goes something like this: “Immigrants…immigrants…immigrants…sucking on the blood of our country. No longer will they be allowed to go to the front of the line. Oh, no! There will be no immigrant line-jumping, no special services, no support for these…these…’immigrants.’ I’m all for legal immigrants, but all the rest of this infection, this filth, robbing our nation of it’s life’s blood. It must stop! We must be free of these immigrants! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!”
Obviously, I’m changing it slightly, but that was the message and the tone, loud and clear. MITT ROMNEY: TRULY DESPICABLE.
Biodun @ 11
i feel this plays into these explanations from:
1) Juan Cole
2) our own AlTheSpook at RoaRM
3) Ray McGovern at AntiWar.com
4) Al was on about it last night here
5) and especially here,
where Al says:
Biodun @ 143
Does Israel want the Damascus Airport shut down? Why?
boston at 159 says-”He has a kid in Iraq.”
thanks
Maliki is the Bush Administrations hand-picked PM…replacing Ibrahim Jafari…who was the preferred choice of the Shiite religious parties.So the Shi’as have already compromised and are unlikely to do so again. I don’t think that there is anyone who could do anything else. The issues are endemic and very much relate to the desire of many to get the US out, and their issues of the imbalance of the Bush instituted “power-sharing” Constitution. As noted by others the issue isn’t Maliki…the issues relate to the Parliaments’ desires to get the US out and fill the remaining political vacuum.
The PROMISED “landmarks” were unattainable while the crutch of the U.S. is used by various parties for leverage. And now the U.S. is playing warlord-maker by arming the Sunni feudal chieftains. Who will soon use those arms against the Central government because it is “Shiite”.
Bush is simply creating more CONDITIONS that require our presence…not finding ways to get our troops out and reduce the number of well-armed combatants. He appears to want and is advocating a perpetual quagmire so that his war-profiteering buddies can drain the Treasury of every last dollar in perpetuity.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 169
Not at all.
Bush never asked people to sacrifice.
He pays his base by stealing the economic security from the rest of us.
He steals from the elderly, children, veterans and the struggling middle class.
Evil sociopaths, trained by Nixon, advanced degrees from Reagan, now funding Regents University.
Oh, and the ACLU ad campaign with the Reid/Pelosi sheep? Spot on AND hardhitting AND funny. I luv it.
The ad was superb. I too am not a big fan of Biden though he is an intelligent guy, but that ad is just right to the point. Thirty seconds is all it takes. The eventual nominee should take note of that one. I cannot believe that the Dems could lose in any state where an ad like that was widely shown, especially interspersed with short and to the point ads on health care for kids and improving social security (don’t say ‘defending’) — just talk about ‘a government that actually cares about real people for a change’.
Fern @ 165
No doubt now that you mention it. I don’t assume a real estate agent is my friend either. They want the sale to go through no matter what, preferably after only showing you (seems from my experience) about 10 houses.
(Just an EPUd note here on Joe Biden (D-MBNA)’s advertisement.)
There are two problems with his ad. First, Biden’s not the only candidate with a plan to get out of Irak. Second, as discussed here at some length on Sunday nite during Siun’s post, partition is a really bad plan reeking of post-colonial hubris. What of blended families, markets and neighborhoods that are ethnically mixed, and once-shared resources?
Biden’s plan is The Mountbatten Plan — it has the potential to kill as many as the India/Pakistan partition did, if not more. It’s steeped in the same ignorance about Irak that our invasion and occupation are: first we knew nothing about Irakis; now we know there are “three kinds” of Irakis. Let’s divide them up by their beliefs.
The white man’s burden just cannot be set down, can it?
And how do we assure that grandkids don’t have to go back? Continue the occupation until the oil runs out.
Don’t be fooled by this guy (or Clinton or Obama or Edwards)
He’s sending his own son to join the invasion of Iraq? That immediately disqualifies him for office in my opnion.
Well yes, the format is good, and Biden’s personna is good in this clip. But the reference to grandchildren is code. The code says, we’ll be there for years, in order to “get it right”.
Do you actually agree with that concept, CHS?
I lke Biden because he at least will answer a question with a yes or a no, as I mentioned in Jane Hamshers’s piece on Tue. Seems like all you hear abot is Hillary and Obama. Thanks for the article!
casual at 186 — You read here all the time, you tell me? Am I writing all the time here that we need to stay there for years? I mean, honestly, what sort of disingenuous question is that? No. No I don’t think we need to be there for years. And I also don’t think that was some sort of code from Biden saying that’s what he wants — I think it was a statement of fact that if we keep going down the path we currently are on, that’s exactly what will happen.
Which is why I spend every freaking day on this blog trying to change that path to something better. If you don’t know that by now about me, then you aren’t really reading anything I write.
ed at 184 — Did you miss the part where I said right up front that I’m not a Biden fan. Jeebus, can people READ the post, please, before they go off on support that I’m not giving to him?
I do read here a lot. Although I didn’t write that in my comment, so I’m wondering how the heck you’d know that…
That to the side, you do seem to like Biden’s ad. I like the superficial aspects of the ad myself. In fact, I like some things about Biden. However, I’ve heard that same “we don’t want our grandchildren to have to fight this fight again” from folks like Lieberman and McCain. It is code.
You asked what I thought. That’s what I think. Superficially nice. Content-wise, it’s the same old steaming pile of horseshit in a scenic high-plains setting.
And another thing, CHS. That language about the coffin turning the transport into a cathedral (or words to that effect) is a second pile of steaming mierde. It didn’t do that at all. It turned the transport into a meatlocker with a slaughtered innocent in it.
That kind of language–sanctimoniously propping up the glories of being placed in a flag-draped coffin for delivery to one’s parents or spouse–is the kind of crap that keeps enlistment up, and the victims coming in a steady stream.
right on CHS
CHS is one of the reasons I keep coming back to this site. She cares!! I do not always agree with her on every issue but her reasoning is very sound.
ed kriner @ 184
So who do you think would be better? I do not care for either of these but just curious as to why and who you consider better?
perris @ 77
And without the expected refinance, credit card bills that were run up cannot be paid and bankruptcy protection is no longer a viable option for many middle class families.
The credit card companies have become secured creditors at the front of the line, people who file without going through the required credit counseling have no recourse because one of the requirements for even crossing the threshold and being heard at the bar is attending a certified counseling course and possession of a certificate that proves it.
So many, many Aemricans are forced to go through financial hell trying to dig themselves out of debt that in many cases, I agree not all, was incurred by paying for necessities like prescriptions or food or clothes for the kids for school.
The bottom line is that the Democrats caved on an issue that many people who are looking down the barrel of a gun, both literally, contemplating suicide, and figuratively by being hounded by phone calls and threatening letters from creditors, needed them to stand up for them on.
Sorry about the tortured syntax.
I also love the grandchildren line. And I love the way there’s no cut between the message and the “I’m Joe Biden and I approve this message”. In most capaign adds I feel there’s too much of a cut between the message and the regulated “approval”. Makes the publicity feel realy “political” (in a bad way).
In this case it realy drives the message home. Creates a favorable emotional response rather than the usual “weary of a political agenda” feel I get when I hear it.
Oh, to see them all make ads like this!
IrishJim @ 28
We all talk about everything. Just stick around and you’ll notice that. Oh, wait, you’re saying OTHER people like the MSM and so on. Well, of course they don’t talk about their failures, their greed, their ignorance. That’s why we’re here to yell it out loud for everybody to hear.
Now, about the bankruptcy bill CAUSING the current crisis…no, I don’t think it did. I think it exacerbates it for ordinary folk who are stuck with debt and can’t get their lives in order. For companies it probably smooths over some of their stupidity by keeping people paying them for nothing. It’s immoral, but economically it helps rather than harms companies.
What we need is more justice, more common sense; individuals need help with their income levels so they can pay their mortgages, they need to be allowed to actually go bankrupt if necessary and they might benefit from government supported mortgage loans which would help them get homes off the shelf; we also do need to keep liquidity in the market with these short-term Fed loans as that protects the larger market from collapsing unnecessarily.
Government IS part of the solution, it’s not the enemy.
IrishJim @ 86
Fascinating point!
You certainly can’t squeeze blood from a turnip, just because you’ve changed the bankruptcy law.
Boston1775 @ 168
What kind of system is it most like?
Ponzi?
Mafia?
Partnership?
Divided Lottery payouts?
Old-fashioned political Boss?
Other?
Biden is betting the farm on his very specific plan for Iraq.
Obama changes the topic and just says we should leave and go nuke Pakistan (maybe).
Clinton is more cagey and doesn’t say much. This is an effective political tactic and perhaps even best for a president (to keep options open), but very disrespectful of the public who want and need to hear their LEADER tell them the goals, the plan and maybe even some detail.
I prefer Clinton’s approach to the other two. She has maneuvering room they don’t maintain.
I think Edwards has pretty much done the same as Clinton. He emphasizes getting out a little more than she does.