There are a number of reasons why, if I were a (very camp) adviser to President Bush, I would have told him with regards to yesterday’s unfortunate choice of using the Vietnam War as a metaphor for Iraq, “Don’t go there, girl.”
Mainly because he didn’t go there, girl.
Even if the White House wins the argument about exactly what happened in Texas and Alabama in 1972 and 1973, it is not clear that the furore will evaporate. Some interpretations of the documents suggest that Bush realised the gravity of his situation and hurried to make up his minimum service requirements, ending his time in the military with his duties fulfilled. But that might not be sufficient, says Joshua Marshall, a Washington journalist who edits the influential weblog www.talkingpointsmemo.com and writes for the Washington Monthly. “The backdrop is that even the White House’s story is not a good one,” he says. It is widely agreed, he points out, “that the president was a son of a congressman who used his connections to get a cushy deal … So the Democrats wouldn’t take much of a hit even if the whole White House story was true. It’s still a story of using your connections to get out of Vietnam.”
That Guardian story is from 2004, but the questions about how our Toddler in Chief spent the Vietnam years is still very much an unsettled question, given that all the records have mysteriously vanished in the intervening years. Although the place where they were stored smells faintly of bacon grease, Rogaine shampoo, and hate. (Karl? Is that you?)
But there are dozens of other reasons why invoking Vietnam yesterday was about as specious and wrong-headed as Preznint Slappy could get, not the least of which being that he completely mangled his historical facts and referenced a book he’s obviously never read, but also because of the copious amounts of ink that were spilled back in the run-up to the war and in its first phases, when we were told again and again and again that Iraq would not be like Vietnam.
Ah, yes, I remember those heady days of 2003. War critics like myself said, “I don’t think this is such a good idea. Anybody remember Vietnam?”
And the Very Serious People who were cheerleading the invasion of Iraq said, “You have no idea what you’re talking about, you liberal traitor. This situation is totally different from Vietnam. Iraq is all desert, and Vietnam was a jungle, and, uh…the people in Vietnam were Vietnamese and not Iraqi, and, um…cos we say so.”
Uh-huh. The NeoCocksuckers have kept it up, too.
Here’s gin-soaked waste of space Chris Hitchens from 2005:
Why Iraq and Vietnam have nothing whatsoever in common.
Posted Monday, Jan. 31, 2005, at 4:16 PM ETThere it was again, across half a page of the New York Times last Saturday, just as Iraqis and Kurds were nerving themselves to vote. “Flashback to the 60’s: A Sinking Sensation of Parallels Between Iraq and Vietnam.” The basis for the story, which featured a number of experts as lugubrious as they were imprecise, was the suggestion that South Vietnam had held an election in September 1967, and that this propaganda event had not staved off ultimate disaster.
(*cough, cough*)
But perhaps now is the moment to state the critical reasons why there is no reasonable parallel of any sort between Iraq and Vietnam.
Seriously, you owe it to yourself to read the whole thing. His closing paragraph?
I suppose it’s obvious that I was not a supporter of the Vietnam War. Indeed, the principles of the antiwar movement of that epoch still mean a good deal to me. That’s why I retch every time I hear these principles recycled, by narrow minds or in a shallow manner, in order to pass off third-rate excuses for Baathism or jihadism. But one must also be capable of being offended objectively. The Vietnam/Iraq babble is, from any point of view, a busted flush. It’s no good. It’s a stiff. It’s passed on. It has ceased to be. It’s joined the choir invisible. It’s turned up its toes. It’s gone. It’s an ex-analogy.
Even better, I thrust an arm all the way up to the shoulder into the Pool of Spent Propaganda (I’ll never get the smell out of that shirt) and found some vintage Fred Kagan from a December 2005 edition of the Hoover Institution Policy Review:
When American ground forces paused briefly during the march to Baghdad in 2003, critics of the war were quick to warn of a “quagmire,” an oblique reference to the Vietnam War. Virtually as soon as it became clear that the conflict in Iraq had become an insurgency, analogies to Vietnam began to proliferate. This development is not surprising. Critics have equated every significant American military undertaking since 1975 to Vietnam, and the fear of being trapped in a Vietnam-like war has led to the frequent demand that U.S. leaders develop not plans to win wars, but “exit strategies,” plans to get out of messes.
Uh, well, yes. Those “exit strategy” thingies of which we speak are often very good to have when launching poorly thought out wars of choice in highly unstable and dangerous parts of the world, even for God’s Favorite Li’l Country, the Almighty, Undefeatable USA.
The situation in Iraq is completely different from Vietnam. The beginning of the conflict, the nature of the enemy, the enemy’s military capabilities, the nature of the current Iraqi government, and the legitimacy of that government are all so widely removed from the circumstances of Vietnam as to make meaningful comparisons almost impossible.
(…)
The real reason that the Vietnam example remains so prominently in many people’s minds, of course, is that the U.S. lost that war.
Ah, no, Mr. Kagan. Right now the reason is because of your boy Dubya’s all over the TeeVee saying that Iraq is just like Vietnam, and that if we stay for another twenty years, this time we’ll “win”, by golly.
Perhaps by trying to box the spiraling, burning clusterf*%k that is Iraq up into a neat little Vietnam analogy is a measure of how desperate the War Spinners of the Right Wing Noise Machine have become. They know the war is winding down, not because violence is decreasing, because it certainly isn’t, but because our forces are exhausted, our treasury is busted, and the violence continues to spin out of control, regardless of what the stuffed suits from America’s burgeoning Think Tank industry have to say.
The Iraq War is, has been, and always will be a colossal failure. Too many things went too horribly wrong at the outset. It’s time for us to pack this one in. Of course, no one who can actually do anything about it seems to understand that, which means that whatever happens in Iraq, it will take much, much longer than it should, and thousands (if not millions) of people will suffer and die needlessly before it’s over.
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Zed.
zed?
third!
Gore/Dean ‘08
Because nothing would be better for this country than having Howard Dean in the White House for 16 years.
6
single digits!
_THAT_ close!
Rats.
Good on ya, RonD
FunnyD
under 10?
I see Kagan eating cheetoes while he writes for Bush. Really.
They say Hillary has locked up the DC Beltway.
How many electoral votes do they have in the Beltway?
boing – back two and a half somersaults with one and a half twists in the free position – pop – a perfectly vertical entry with no splash
g’evening everyone
i’ve had visitors. The Lurking Mod dropped by yesterday and i spoke to demi – she drove straight through and we will do ice cream tomorrow before they head down to santa cruz for the boardwalk (amusement park on the beach). she said to tell everyone hi and that she is having a blast.
as for the lurking mod – well, all i can say is yeowza eye candy
TRex, I gotta biohazard container you can put that shirt in – and I’m hoping your shots are current. Who knows what was in that Pool of Spent Propaganda – I certainly hope you remembered to glove up first.
Astral Technician @ 10
They will have to fight over here.
Good evening everyone!
anyone let downstairs know?
“Don’t go there, girl” sounds like you’re channelling Angry Black Bitch, TRex.
She goes on to nail some of the specifics, in her own delightful way. Yum.
Astral Technician @ 10
They can say whatever they want. Nothing about this election is going to go like they expect it to, I think. It’s all noise.
off topic, but NHTSA talks to no one anymore. This would be funny if it were a comedy skit…
Bizarre message discipline at the NHTSA
Steven Benen
Posted August 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
http://www.thecarpetbaggerrepo…..12639.html
What’s Off the Record at N.H.T.S.A.? Almost Everything
By Christopher Jensen August 22, 2007, 12:07 pm
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.co…..verything/
Good evening all.
I see the whole vietnam thing as a sign that the admin is getting rather desperate.
Great post TRex.
FunnyDiva, you saw that we had the same timestamp, right? :)
Peterr, thank you so very much for turning me onto ABB – I read her daily now and love her writing and her thinking.
TRex @ 16
I told ‘em downstairs, Suzanne!
Well, at least we can still count on Der Shrubbenfuhrer to say the single dumbest thing he can possibly say in any given situation. Too bad we can’t count on the MSM to notice.
thanks, RonD
There were those who went to Vietnam and those who protested it. These people had the courage of their convictions or at least the courage to act. Then, of course, there were the others like Dick Cheney and George Bush who stood for nothing, did nothing.
Hugh @ 25
They spent their energies trying to duck it instead of trying to change it.
Here’s the thing, Trex-you just can’t go dredging up things that were said by this administration and their lackeys in the past. They think they are writing history as they go along, and the lapdog media is not going to make the minimal effort to go back and compare then and now. That, and the base is just too lazy to do anything but mindlessly cheer the “Toddler in Chief”.
P.S. I like the toddler thing, but most of the toddlers I know have better table manners and play nicer with others than Bush does.
Hugh @ 25
Cheney basically told his country to go Cheney itself, as he had other plans at the time.
No mercy:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..awk-crash/
The Lurking Mod felt wonderfully at home with the lovely Suzanne, a most competent and deliberate hostess.
:-)
And Token is, indeed, World-Class cute!
Late Nite moderator secret about the dives – Miss Suzanne cheats. She has a rehearsal diving board and a platform right on the edge of the creek. Practices hours at a time, polishing her form.
Thanks for the hospitality and the java, dear!
TRex! Love the book cover. When will it be at Amazon so I can buy it?
Hugh @ 25
I thought Bush kept Houston safe from commie terrists all by his sef.
wesgpc @ 17
I swear that pixie dust they sprinkle all over is definitely industrial grade shit…!!!
Evening all. What kind of cluster fuckery is this?
wesgpc @ 17
That is hilarious and I have just found my item 237 of my scandals list. These guys don’t need Kafka. They are Kafka.
The Lurking Mod @ 30
that is not cheating — it is professionalism.
Eureka Springs @ 32
Between that and protecting Alabama from the Viet Cong his plate was quite full!
TRex @ 16
Early primaries and caucuses are not about name recognition and the DC beltway. The only people who go to a caucus, are people who are following the election closely.
I just got word that Howie Klein has gotten Jerry McNerney lined up to come chat for an hour here at the Lake tomorrow at 6PM Pacific Time.
Should be interesting, to say the least.
The Lurking Mod @ 30
Ma Cheri, is sooo busted…!!! ;-)
TRex @ 16
Hugh @ 35
Actually, they are Kafka on bad acid.
Peterr @ 39
Oh, whaddya know. I just happen to have a box of perfectly rotten tomatoes here.
Hope Jerry can dance.
Peterr @ 39
Time to face the music….
The Lurking Mod @ 30
that’s not cheating
that’s being prepared
cheating would be if Suzanne got some-one else to do her practice for her
hope the head’s in a pain free zone
Suzanne
madmommy @ 37
He was protecting Alabama from gingivitus.
Hugh @ 35
Dang, Hugh if the list grows any longer you’ll need to significantly increase your Hard drive’s storage capacity!!!
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..or-if.html
Bush was allegedly in a coke hole for much of the Vietnam War, a war he “supported” but assiduously avoided, like most of the cronies and scumbags who make up his vile regime. Bush thinks other people should fight wars.
Personally, he’s a physical coward. Yesterday Crooks & Liars featured David Shuster’s MSNBC analysis of Bush’s infantile babbling comparing Vietnam and Iraq. But it wasn’t just Shuster and the C&L crew laughing and sputtering over Bush’s nonsense. Today’s NY Times offers a look at how actual historians are looking at Bush’s highly dubious claims.
Republican warmongers have never been happy that the American people demanded an end to the war of aggression against Vietnam, but, as the Times reminds us “The American withdrawal from Vietnam is widely remembered as an ignominious end to a misguided war– but one with few negative repercussions for the United States and its allies.” The far right’s distorted interpretation of what happened infuses Bush’s thinking reactions.
In reminding Americans that the pullout in 1975 was followed by years of bloody upheaval in Southeast Asia, Mr. Bush argued in a speech on Wednesday that Vietnam’s lessons provide a reason for persevering in Iraq, rather than for leaving any time soon. Mr. Bush in essence accused his war critics of amnesia over the exodus of Vietnamese “boat people” refugees and the mass killings in Cambodia that upended the lives of millions of people.
Bush neglects to mention that it was the America aggression in Southeast Asia that led to the creation of the murderous Khymer Rouge to begin with. But one historian points out that “The same thing has happened in the Middle East today. Foreign occupation of Iraq has created far more terrorists than it has deterred.”
Bush stepped even further off the cliff when he tried comparing his occupation of Iraq with American efforts in Germany and Japan after WWII. “But historians note that Germany and Japan were homogenous nation-states with clear national identities and no internal feuding among factions or sects, in stark contrast to Iraq today.”
The comparison of Iraq to Germany and Japan “is fanciful,” said Steven Simon, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He noted that the American and allied militaries had eliminated the governments of Japan and Germany, and any lingering opposition, and assembled occupation forces that were, proportionally, more than three times as large as the current American presence of more than 160,000 troops in Iraq.
Peterr @ 39
Thanks, I wont miss it… but I am so over him. New Dems, consider him a gift from Blue America..)
wangdangdoodle @ 46
ROTFLMAO
may, headache is all gone and i’m back 100%. thanks for asking
Hi Betsy! School keeping you busy?
Eureka Springs @ 49
One more shot for Jerry is my vote. One more.
I pointed out this morning that one good thing about Bush not going to Vietnam. It was one less drunken flyboy in an F-4 with napalm that could have endangered the boys on foot.
Astral Technician @ 10
None, but they have Tim Russert’s little board where he totals up the electoral votes, and that’s what matters.
Be polite.
Be Professional.
Be Prepared to Kill.
I pewk for humanity.’
Soldier on Jon Stewart.
Sleep well.
wangdangdoodle @ 52
Yes. Spent today with new teachers and cleaning my office.
Very OT..Does anyone know when Jane first came on line with FDL? One of those annoying questions that came to mind during a bike ride.
TexBetsy @ 57
Mr. Doodle is an electrician with PISD. They have one more week to git ‘er dun before the kiddos come back.
TexBetsy @ 18
I’m with TexBetsy, but I’m assuming an element of snark. Rather desperate? Insanely desperate, for this draft-evader President to try to hide from the reality of Iraq behind Vietnam, while knowing the risk of tearing open the whole issue of how he managed to avoid service in Vietnam. It’s amazing how much he learned about the place by not going there-I’m sure he would say that by staying far away, he was able to take in the Big Picture.
newtonusr @ 53
Still better than Pombo..That fucker was trying to sell the national parks. Blue America needs to make Chris Carney the example.
Steve-AR @ 58
Maybe here. An excellent read, btw…
madmommy @ 37
Oh that’s right, he had to fight them in Alabama so we wouldn’t have to fight them in Nam, er, so why did we fight them in name. uh, well never mind…
RonD @ 60
I meant delusional.
RonD @ 60
Mr Duck and Run From Responsibility.
Hmmm. Where have I heard that before?
Betsy I was quoting you today. I think your right, the surge caused summer in Iraq. The NIE says so.
Hello hello hello hello and hello. And hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi and hi. Hello hello hello hello and hello. And hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi and hi. Hello hello hello hello and hello. And hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi and hi. Hello hello hello hello and hello. And hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi and hi. Hello hello hello hello and hello. And hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi and hi.
new post!
For the new FDL MLB FB group.
SnarKassandra @ 68
I think you got everyone here ;-)
Hi CassieBelle!
SnarKassandra @ 68
Greetings. Excellent question you ask there.
wangdangdoodle @ 69
Brilliant!
wangdangdoodle @ 69
Always liked Fogerty. Sad that he was unable to play the music that he wrote for so long.
SnarKassandra @ 68
Evening Cassie. Sounds like someone has been chugging Red Bull.
G’nite, all!
LoudounLib @ 73
Where do you think I get my inspiration?
;)
newtonusr @ 62
Thanks..that is probably about right..I started lurking just before Ned Lamont started talking about running..early Feb ‘05.
wangdangdoodle @ 77
;-)
Peterr @ 76
Nite, Rev!!!
Night Peterr.
Draft Dodger Berates Effort to End War He Refused to Fight In
Author: David Sirota
Putting the question of whether the Vietnam legacy is being interpreted properly for today’s foreign policy – there is just something incredibly, crassly, disgustingly hypocritical about a man who deliberately avoided military service in the Vietnam War now berating the effort that ended the Vietnam War.
g’nite peterr
wangdangdoodle @ 77
How’d you like the Rangers dropping 30 on Baltimore? Talk about pitchers being so bad they couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat!
SnarKassandra @ 68
Hola!
realworld @ 67
Or perhaps it just caused Spring time for…
Night Peterr.
Steve-AR @ 78
Worth noting, this piece was written amongst the ashes of the ‘04 election, part 1 of 4. Astounding.
I think it was dumb for bush to make that comparison cause now people are talking about him going AWOL again. Maybe the 25%ers will listen this time.
SnarKassandra @ 89
Don’t hold your breath. There’s no antidote for that much kool-aid.
SnarKassandra @ 89
It remains to be seen whether the 25%ers have enough functioning neural pathways to dress themselves in the morning.
SnarKassandra @ 89
Foot-in-mouth disease! I’m sure the MSM will cover for him, though.
madmommy, that was insane — I saw the score on my browser’s sidebar last night and thought at first that it was a preseason football score!
SnarKassandra @ 89
Those same 25%ers believe the world is flat and the earth is the center of the universe.
Well…well…well…Guess who is the primary funder for the “Freedom Watchj” ads that Ari Fleisher is putting out in the Pug Congressional Districts on the eve of the vote on continuing the “quagmire”?
It turns out to be a right wing L*KUDIST and close amigo of Bibi Netanyahu who is reputedly “the richest Jew in the world”.
http://www.forward.com/articles/11408/
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
LoudounLib @ 93
I thought it was a typo at first-so bizarre!
SnarKassandra @ 89
Nope. Unfortunately the 25%ers are deaf, blind, and dumb as a box of rocks (not to mention seriously delusional).
SnarKassandra, I’m afraid the answer to your question is this: The US will pull out of Iraq when it no longer perceives a need to control access to Iraqi, and the MidEast’s, oil with military force.
SnarKassandra @ 89
*snort!*
Those people will only listen when Bush or one of his delagatees tells them what to think, so don’t hold your breath. That bottom 25 are the intellectual dregs of society. Completely passive thinkers that wait on higher agencies to tell them exactly what to think and believe.
I wish we could hijack the president’s remote control away from Dick Cheney and tell them all that God wants them to drink Drano.
madmommy @ 84
Missed the game but caught the headlines. I like to watch but don’t know that much about it. Mr. D, on the other hand, is entranced with the Little League World Series these days.
SnarKassandra @ 89
Good point on the AWOL. As for th 25%, I think some of those are cynical turkeys and the other part are so scared because Bush has been terrorizing them for so long.
I think the president’s bizarre speech is an example of why the DLC and corporatist Democrats, and general concern trolls’ approach to controversial issues is very bad politics and also very bad for preserving a functioning democracy. There are erroneous stories alive today about why the US didn’t have a happy outcome in Vietnam. Trying to duck discussing them because it might piss off some voters in the next election means these erroneous theories will hang around, and people will continue to believe them, ignorant and deluded high school teachers will say the textbook is garbage and go on unhinged tirades in classrooms about how the US was stabbed in the back (I sat through several from resentful white guy HS teachers who didn’t serve a day in the military but were seething about it for some reason.) Unscrupulous or incompetent politicians will use them to convince the population to acquiesce in horrible policies.
A false history about the very traumatic period following the Vietnam war still has power today to harm the national interest and security. Because weak, cowardly, politicians don’t have the guts to provide leadership and tell the truth. That is why insisting the truth be told about the dishonesty the lead to the Iraq invasion, and seriously questioning exactly what is the administration’s current goals and objectives and intentions, and current level of honesty, and insisting a robust and wide ranging discussion is vital. Trying to play safe by putting some important questions off limits, or advocating for an artificial but safe official history (‘it was a good idea but badly done’) is just asking for trouble. I think the best way to start off a good robust public discussion is for every Democratic officehold to begin every public statement with a consice, factually accurate attack on the Cheney-dub administration.
“The Cheney-Bush administration’s continuing refusal to provide leadership in regional diplomatic and political initiatives is squandering whatever progress in security has been provided by the sacrifices of the military. Cheney-Bush as abandoned the military again, and continues incompetent and dangerous policies that hurt national security.”
I think that is the kind of even handed statement that would get discussion started and would also be difficult to misquote.
Confession time — my dad and step-mom are among the 25 percenters :-( We agree to disagree, but it’s tough at times.
LoudounLib @ 102
yeah, i got kin in there too.
wangdangdoodle @ 99
That is fun to watch, though the kids seem bigger than when my brothers played. These kids seem more Pony League age to me. Or I am just old, who knows!
LoudounLib @ 103
You can’t pick your relatives.
LoudounLib @ 103
I know what you mean.
madmommy @ 105
I resemble that remark.
madmommy @ 104
And now bragging time — my 12 year old nephew, while not playing in the LLWS, is playing in a tournament this coming weekend at Cal Ripken’s place in Aberdeen MD. Go Huskies! ;-)
LoudounLib @ 102
Me too..sigh. Not just paternal units but siblings and steps as well. I am the freak in the family, yee haa!
LoudounLib @ 102
You have my sympathy. My father was also a diehard Republican and loyal Bushie until he died 5 years ago. Not sure if he would have stayed with the good ship lolipop this far, however. He was generally an intelligent man, aside from his politics.
madmommy @ 110
Freaks unite! ;-) Although my sister recently surprised the hell out of me by saying she was ready to vote for Obama. A bit of progress there.
Well…well…well…Guess who is the primary funder for the “Freedom Watch” ads that Ari Fleisher is putting out in the Pug Congressional Districts on the eve of the vote on continuing the “quagmire”?
It turns out to be a right wing LIKUDIST and close amigo of Bibi Netanyahu who is reputedly “the richest Jew in the world”.
http://www.forward.com/articles/11408/
LoudounLib @ 108
Are they allowed to chatter at games? Some leagues are outlawing it, it hurts feelings. What is little league without “we want a pitcher, not a belly itcher”???
Thanks to wesgpc. So this is a preview of how item 237 will look when selise puts it up tomorrow.
237. Pettifogging frogmarchery and other lunacy. Nicole Nason who became head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in May 2006 has instituted a policy forbidding staffers from making on the record statements. When New York Times reporter Christopher Jensen sought information for a story from an NHTSA expert, he was directed instead to Nason who is a not an expert in the field but a lawyer. When he expressed an interest in discussing her no attribution policy, she became suddenly unavailable. So now you can only get information from the NHTSA if it has been politically vetted, except, of course, on the no attribution policy itself which apparently even Nason is too embarrassed to defend.
The bottom 25% are people like my Grammy….the only channel they get their info from is FOX, and they answer you in outmoded ’60s cliches.
“My country, right or wrong”
“Love it or leave it”
“You’re a commie if you don’t support our president 100%”
There is no talking reason to them, no changing the damn channel to something resembling facts, nada. All you can do is not discuss politics at the dinner table, even if baited. (”what did you think of the President’s speech today?” “Pass the potatoes, please”)
Too cool, Lou! What position does your nephew play?
My father was a die-hard military Republican until 2005. I think it was Katrina that did him in. He was doing the “must support the Commander in Chief” thing that military officers are kind of drilled in.
Now he’s a Webb Democrat.
Yay, Dad!
Shadowstalker @ 114
Yep.
cinnamonape @ 95
Follow the money and discover the agenda..When Bibi becomes PM again, the dangers for Israel and the US are going up dramatically.
wangdangdoodle @ 116
Mostly 2nd, and fills in at SS. And madmommy, they definitely chatter!
TRex @ 117
Will you give your dad my dad’s phone number? ;-)
LoudounLib @ 111
I have been known to make Thanksgivings interesting by asking if they would be ok with all recent administration hijinks if it were Clinton doing it instead of Bush. Then, I sit back and have a big ole slice of punkin pie and cool whip and watch their heads explode. I can be a sick puppy sometimes.
We’re all dems but some of us are more lefty than others.
November 8, 2008. Please be kind, oh greater power.
This is it for me folks, gotta rest up for the weekend!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snrkkk zzzzzz
wangdangdoodle @ 124
nighty night!
Good night doodley!
g’night wangdang, sleep well :-)
TRex @ 116
Speaking as a NonCom, even Officers will see the daylight at times…!!! ;-)
SnarKassandra @ 122
That must be nice. Trying being a Soc*al*st (of the European Social Democratic variety) with a Republican father (who actually got more conservative as he aged).
SnarKassandra @ 126
Is the weather still wet and soggy in your neck of the woods?
Night Wangdang.
wangdangdoodle @ 105
but you can pick your friends
my own take on that is
a friend is some-one who is there when you need a friend
and when the chips are down be prepared for a surprise as to who actually shows or doesn’t show up
true colours and all that
Hugh @ 114
And journalists are just figuring this out?
wangdangdoodle @ 124
Nite, Ma’am!!!
TRex @ 118
People can change..my brother-in-law was a Conservative Repub..but his dying last words were “Bush is an ASS-HOLE”
madmommy @ 131
For like an hour a day. And super hot now.
Time for me to split as well; my weekend shift starts tomorrow. Have a great night, everyone!
CTuttle @ 129
There are some prominent Generals out there proving your point.
goodnight, LL and wangdoodle!
SnarKassandra @ 136
We actually cooled off here and have been in the 70s for the last few days. Smoke has even cleared out a bit the last couple of days.
LoudounLib @ 138
happy sleeping!
Howard Dean:
“I told you so” is a lousy campaign slogan.
(waving to all the leaving sleepy pups) sleep well
Night LL. Keep the public safe from themselves.
newtonusr @ 138
The wiser ones were shit-canned early on, Shinseki, most notably!!!
Eureka Springs @ 133
Most journalists still haven’t tumbled to the fact that this Administration is full of crooks and that Bush is the worst President in our history.
Astral Technician @ 143
I like it!
CTuttle @ 145
Yeah, well we know that if there is one thing the Busheviks can’t stand, it’s intelligence and competence.
The war-mongering MSM is disintegrating and no longer represent mainstream beliefs and ideals.
Long live FDL!
DrDick @ 141
96F here in the Tampa Bay area today, with 88% humidity.
LoudounLib @ 137
goodnight!
I’m going to turn in early tonight – my mother is having a lumpectomy in the morning. Send good thoughts her way.
SnarKassandra @ 136
It has been unbearably hot, no rain for almost 2 weeks, and it’s love-bug season!
Gnome de Plume @ 152
I hope she is OK.
Hugh @ 25
Personally, I have nothing against someone doing whatever they need to do to avoid fighting in a pointless and immoral war. I don’t even have trouble with fear as a motivation to avoid military service.
The subsequent hypocrisy however is really, really disgusting.
Good night, Gnome. All of my best wishes for your Mom.
Gnome de Plume @ 152
Nite nite. And the best to your Mom. Take heart. We’re here.
Night Gnome. My best wishes for your mother. My mother was a survivor for more than 30 years.
I always think that it is strange that most of America is asleep at the same time.
madmommy @ 152
What is love-bug season?
warm positive healing thoughts going your mom’s way GDPlume
Hugh @ 146
I think alot of them know, they just don’t want to lose access.
cinnamonape, I guess 15 million (chump change) is pretty cheap for that gang.. 15 million in commercials to rekindle needless fears in the American psyche which will enable dems another vote for more war and occupation.
How stooopid can Americans be….
QuakerGirl @ 156
Positive thoughts headed your way!
LS @ 159
LS – I was trying to sleep but it’s 9:01 the temperature is 100. Miserable.
Gnome de Plume @ 151
God Bless, Gnome…!!! *g*
The effect Bush’s speech had on me:
1) I’m assuming Bush is now officially a Vietnam War supporter,
2) I assume he regrets not going over there to fight,
3) I assume he thinks killing 500,000 Cambidians was a good thing to do and that we were right to be over there and should have kept all that bombing and killing up for years and years.
That’s the propaganda that I got catapulted by that speech.
Iraq is much worse than Vietnam.
–the very idea of invading Iraq was ten times dumber and more immoral than supporting South Vietnam in the early 60s (that is not saying anything about the wisdom of the later escalation in Vietnam).
–A semi-legit South Vietnamese government actually existed, and US policy reduced it to abject puppet-hood. But in Iraq after the invasion, the US make crucial initiatives that largely destroyed the society that remained, and in engineering a constitution and government that is both unworkable and illegit.
–A long term negotiated settlement in Vietnam that would have been observed and been acceptable to all parties probably didn’t exist. North Vietnam thought it was all one country, and it was its rightful government. South Vietnam thought it had the right to its own existence, and would not submit to North Vietnamese authority, whether gained through electoral victory or not. In Iraq, many of the long term regional threats to US national security can be negotiated, but Cheney and Bush won’t because they think force and war are always the best options whenever everyone doesn’t agree with you. Even though that appraoch has proved to be a complete failure so far.
So, I think the Vietnam anology does not due the current situation justice. Iraq is much worse than Vietnam, except in raw body count of dead and wounded. But then the Cheney bush adminstration has proposed 50 years of this, so I guess they want to fix that deficiency.
DrDick @ 150
In a revolution, you always get rid of the competent people. If you don’t in short order it is they not you who are running things, and it is you not they who find themselves up against a wall staring down a firing squad.
Twain @ 159
In the spring and late summer these exceedingly freaky bugs come out. They are attached to each other at the butt, and they travel in huge swarms. If you drive through one it is a huge mess, and you have to get their mashed up corpses off immediately or it will eat the paint right off the car. I have never been able to find out if the boy bug or the girl bug gets to fly forward. If they were just a wee bit bigger someone would come up with a way to cook them for dinner.
madmommy @ 169
Didn’t know there were actually love bugs – guess I just thought it was a movie. They sound sorta fascinating – let me know if you ever find out which one flies backward. It sounds hilarious.
madmommy @ 170
mmmmm. That’s some good eatin’
Twain @ 170
Just another example of the wierdness that is south Louisiana.
newtonusr @ 171
With some nutria and boudin on the side. Yum, yum!
Who carried out Hitler’s ferocity for fifty years? No one. There are a few crackpots out there but that’s all. Who’s going to carry out fifty years of Bush Cheney NeoCon madness? Not many.
Sorry guys, when you turn to dust so will your fifty year destruction plan.
Twain @ 170
Here is the Wiki on them (I had to look it up myself).
madmommy @ 173
Dip ‘em in chocolate…!!! ;-)
DrDick @ 178
The girls fly forward! Well, I can sleep better knowing that tidbit of info. Chicks rule!
QuakerGirl @ 175
Lots of heirs to the throne, though.
CTuttle @ 176
Just about anything is edible if you dip it in chocolate. Don’t know about nutria, but I am rather partial to squirrel and ‘coon.
OT–
Renzi Says He Will Not Seek Re-Election, by David M. Drucker, Roll Call Staff, Aug. 23, 2007.
I’m doing the Snoopy dance now; Renzi is the stinko wingnut who represents what used to be my home district (R-AZ), covering most of rural northern Arizona. He was first elected while I lived there. Now if Arizona Democrats can only put forward a decent candidate who can win!
Bob in HI
It sounds hilarious.
Hilarious. Sure. Huge clouds of these flying black things that are all over everything. Sticky goo and washing your car every day. You haven’t lived till you’ve come around a corner on a Honda V65 and unexpectedly plowed into a huge cloud of these things and suddenly gotten a facefull of lovebugs splattered all over your shield (thank the Powers I was wearing a helmet with shield) instant bug blindness, being pelted with a storm of these bugs and trying to navigate off the road without being able to see.
It’s a real laff-riot.
madmommy @ 173
We used to love to catch them as kids. The boys would pull them apart and the girls would scold them for doing so. We felt protective towards them, like, they are romantic symbols. Ahhhh, southern Louisiana. I’ll take love bugs over mosquitoes.
DrDick @ 179
No such varmints over here, Mongooses tho…!!!
RonD @ 181
I didn’t mean that part was funny – just the part about them being attached and one flying backwards. Sorry.
Gizmo update. Brain Defrag.
QuakerGirl @ 185
If only the love bugs would eat the mosquitos!
I remember driving through the 1,000 Island district of New York along the St. Lawrence one evening and there were these little midge like bugs, millions and millions of them. They basically slimed my car. I couldn’t keep the windshield clear enough to see out of it. It went on for miles before I got out of it. And then when I got out of the car the whole thing smelled, half of bug and half of swamp.
RonD @ 181
Used to like the annual tarantula migrations around Lake Tenkiller in NE Oklahoma. Thousand of big, hairy, crunchy spiders everywhere.
DrDick @ 188
This place really is turning into Wild Kingdom.
DrDick @ 191
no thank you, I’ll pass.
madmommy @ 110
Madmommy rocks!!!
RonD @ 181
I’m sure the pucker factor grew exponentially…!!!
This place really is turning into Wild Kingdom.
Twain, did you miss the bunny rabbit discussion several nights ago?
Loo Hoo. @ 194
(blushing)
No offense taken, Twain! You ought to see these things. They appeared as if by evil magic in central FL in ‘71, I think, and it’s like a biannual visit of some weird plague.
No apology necessary. I did almost crash the damn bike.
Suzanne @ 193
No, I got it and was really falling on the floor. Cassie’s question was a pip,too.
Living on the Mississippi in Dubuque Ia one summer had june bugs so deep thay caused your wheels to slip on the ole steel bridge. Literally would make drifts 4 feet high..
I like this via Froomkin, about Bush and the Vietnam-Iraq comparison:
The New York Times editorial board writes: “The only lesson he found in the nation’s last foreign quagmire of a war was that it ended too quickly.”
Has Karl or anybody explained WHY Bush is comparing the war in Iraq to Vietnam? The GOPers have to know that if you mention Vietnam people remeber Bush and Cheney’s avoiding combat.
I heard on the news the GOP is showing prowar comericals with an Amputee, this from the people who won’t let Bush go to a single military funeral because it might affect morale?
Plus Bush, the Democratic Centerist and the MSM are still trying to shine us on about Iraq, when Ossama Bin Laudin is in Pakistan.
I can’t figure out the GOP plan I don’t see how it can work. I don’t know why when Bush is so weak Hilary and the Democratic Centerist are suddenly all supporting the Surge?
Is the Fix in? Have we been Betrayed?
My Taco Bell is now not looking as yummy as it did when I brought it back to work with me. Yuck.
things come undone @ 202
Yep.
Ah shupportted Vee-et-Nam, the calling of my time by helping to run a campaign in Tennessee.
-The Deshider
Hugh @ 199
Someone should ask Bush if he thinks we should invade Vietnam now, what with them being Commies and all, and seeing how it was a mistake to withdraw after 9 years and 3 million or so dead.
GWB-fixing the mistakes of the past. Poppy’s mistake in ‘91, and the DFH’s in ‘73.
Shadowstalker @ 200
No offense, but I cannot remember the last time anything at Taco Belch ever looked anything but yuck. Now some authentic tacos de lingua or tacos de birria, then you’re talkin’.
Suzanne,
YGM FB, if you can. TY.
things come undone @ 200
And…
Only on a depraved planet would Chimpy evoke the war he avoided as validation for the war he created, and we let it stand.
I wonder if Hitchen’s hands shook when he ‘wrote’ that…Who am I kidding, they shake all the time…
Astral Technician @ 10
That’s a start.
Now throw away the key.
;>)
FDL has just released the following media alert:
Media Alert: Blue America to Discuss Iraq Position with Congressman Jerry McNerney (D-CA11)
Recent contradictory statements lead community to question support of Congressman
Blue America is pleased to announce that Congresman Jerry McNerney (D- CA11) will participate in a live conversation Friday, August 24, 2006 at 6PM PT with the Blue America community. The discussion will be hosted at Firedoglake and will be an opportunity to discuss the congressman’s recent statements on Iraq.
The Blue America community were major supporters of McNerney’s successful run in 2006 with 1,099 contributors donating over $25,000. As backers of strong progressive candidates, many Blue America members were concerned by Rep. McNerney’s comments following a recent trip to Iraq which appeared to contradict his previous support for an end to the occupation.
Howie Klein, organizer of Blue America and proprietor of the blog Down with Tyranny noted:
“Many members of our community feel very let down with Jerry McNerney over some statements he’s made regarding his trip to Iraq– as well as other aspects of how he’s conducted himself since being elected. Those members, and others in the Ble America and allied communities, especially our friends at Calitics, feel that we are owed an explanation for seemingly contradictory remarks and acts on crucial points that have left many of us scratching our heads… or worse.”
Background and discussions of the McNerney statements are available in two posts by Babaloo here: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ts-please/
And here: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..rny-draft/
The community is looking forward to the opportunity to discuss these issues. As Howie Klein says:
“I admire Jerry for immediately agreeing to hold an open, live discussion with us. This is a VERY different reaction from the one we got from Chris Carney who, when we invited him to chat with us, basically gave us the finger and tried to use us as part of his Sister Souljah strategy.”
Blue America is a collaborative project of Firedoglake (http://www.firedoglake.com), Crooks and Liars (http://www.crooksandliars.com/), Down with Tyranny (http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/) and Digby (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/) raising money and energizing support for progressive candidates nation-wide. Blue America’s Act Blue page is at http://www.actblue.com/page/blueamerica08.
Blue America Conversation with Rep Jerry McNerney (CA-D11)
http://www.firedoglake.com
Friday August 4, 2007 9PM ET/6PM PT
Media Contact:
Chrisitna Siun O’Connell
media dot firedoglake at gmail dot com
Twain @ 192
things come undone @ 201
In their own sick minds it is probably about Cheney’s obsession with a failure of will. The Bush Administration has essentially crapped out and this is what that looks like. That the Democrats can’t or won’t stand up to them on Iraq. Well, that’s all part of the long fight that most of us have been fighting for years and likely will have to fight for years.
Margot @ 205
looking now.. sorry was doing something backstage
DrDick, in central Missouri, the only tacos after 9pm you’re going to get are Taco Bell’s. It and McD’s are the only two food places open at 11pm. I eats what I can gets. But the authentic stuff sounds really, really good.
Thanks Siun.
DrDick @ 205
DrDick, I hear you, but I can have a Taco Bell Grilled Stuffed Steak Burrito in my hands in 10 minutes.
evening FDLers
TRex – another brilliant piece. Thanks for that.
I remember being at my brother’s place, watching the news, on the evening that Bush was strutting around on the flight deck and making all those conquering hero noises…
My brother remarked that instead of being chauffered to the carrier he should have displayed the skills his flight training had imparted. His landing could have been one of those ‘faith-based initiatives.’
Way to go siun!
RonD @ 217
How long to get an apple? Or a bag full of nuts? Crackers?
Trex, that is the best poster ever.
Awesome graphic! :)
See y’all… gotta try to get back on east coast time. I still want to stay up until 3am.
Hi Siun!
siun, woohoo! nicely done… who gets the press releases?
Margot, YGM, f/b and regular
Shadowstalker @ 212
I know. You can’t really get any decent ethnic food in western Montana either. I got really spoiled by the 12 years I lived in Chicago, where can you find virtually any kind of food you want at a reasonable price. My favorite taqueria for many years was seized by the feds, as it belonged to the Herrera brothers (part of the Juarez Drug Cartel).
No comment on The Daily Show’s Operation Cameltoe?
Siun @ 208
Are you hosting? Will Howie participate?
hi all! (waves wildly) I sure don’t have the youthful energy to greet everyone as thoroughly as Cassie does :~)
Petro says HI and love to all, had a message from him today. Although the family’s vacation is lovely, he misses late night and wonders how the Pilgrims managed without WiFi.
SnarKassandra, you rock. I like your latest post. Blunt, succinct … you have a talent, kiddo. Few people have the ability to pare it down to the essence, you’re years ahead of the curve.
Loo Hoo. @ 209
That is amazing to watch. As someone who never misses a nature show, I haven’t seen any like this. Thanks
I hear ya, Betsy…but the only open grocery store at this hour is half an hour round trip, at Wally World. I should plan ahead better, but some days it just ain’t gonna happen. Today was one of those days, as I have a teething grandbaby.
TJ @ 223
spew – for real.. like omg i’m gonna be watching that in an hour and a half!!!
Thanks gang – we have a media list of about 50 major political press and then a gazillion blog contacts – its gone to all of them.
I’ll be pulling together a CA list later tonight or first thing in the AM as well.
Hugh @ 213
The way things are going, Cheney is going to order a “re-make” of “Triumph des Willens”
Siun -
Please correct date from Aug. 4 to Aug. 24
Siun @ 228
sweet, thanks for that answer, siun. fdl so rocks!
Suzanne @ 230
For certain the kids are off TV tomorrow. Ack!!!!!
Suzanne @ 230
If they had followed up on it, it would have been funnier. But the anti-insurgency guy was interesting.
Quaker Girl – sorry, error in cut and paste .. thanks
TJ @ 224
Hey – spoiler alert for the left coast…
Bush’s lies & ignorance are coming home to roost and he doesn’t know if he is coming or going. He will melt down soon. Can’t wait.
I’m fading fast, night all!
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 224
Heh, Petro was telling me he’s allowed to check his e-mail account once a day, and to forget about the Lake!!! Poor fella…!!!
madmommy @ 240
Don’t let the love bugs bite.
madmommy @ 240
Nite MM. See you tomorrow.
‘Night, madmommy!
QuakerGirl @ 204
Damm! Must go back to secret lair and contemplate what to do next.
However even if all the Blue Dogs back the Surge I still don’t see this plan working unless we really do start to win in Iraq.
After a few years of Bush shining people on, no phony benchmarks or Friedman units are going to satisfy the American public.
The GOP and the Hilary, Blue Dogs by failing to end the war will unless things get better further radicalize America.
Night, MM. I think I’m out as well. Going to get up early and give the fish one more chance to prove their mettle now that the weather is cooler.
OT..
Did you know that Ted “I’m completely heterosexual” Haggard is back and asking for cash? It’s all true. He’s “looking for people who will help us monthly for two years.”
http://www.americablog.com/2007/08/open-thread_23.html
(waving to the sleepy pups) progressive dreams
QuakerGirl @ 232
Might also want to spell your name right.
G’nite, Sleepers!!!
Fern @ 249
Did I type too fast again? Darn. I just don’t have the proficiency to do taht:))
I’ll help out ole rev ted as soon as he comes outta the closet and not one minute before.
DrDick @ 246
The GF went to bed wearing a Grizzly Hackle t-shirt..maybe it a sign of good fishing around Missoula
Suzanne @ 252
But he is no longer gay Suzanne. //s
TJ @ 226
Oh, we laughed like crazy! Since my husband didn’t know about cameltoe until FDL “conversation” here recently, we really bellyached.
Christine
QuakerGirl @ 252
Not you! “Chrisitna Siun O’Connell”
‘Night, DrDick.
John Galt is in trouble again. Another jobsite accident:
NEW YORK – A heavy piece of construction equipment plummeted 23 stories Thursday from the site of last week’s deadly fire at ground zero, crashing through a shed and hitting two firefighters in another accident at the plagued building, officials said. After Thursday’s mishap, Firefighter William Corbetis had surgery to remove his spleen and was hospitalized in serious condition, Fire Department spokesman Jim Long said. The other firefighter, Neil Nally, was in stable condition.
ccmask @ 258
Someone saw a former mayor up near the top of that building.
ccmask @ 255
fork – these incompetent fools need to be indicted. today. now. gross negligence resulting in death or injury.
It is unbelievable how easy they come down when planes hit them.
And th..th…th..that’s all, folks!
Goodnight everyone. The best of all possible tomorrows to you all, with some special good vibes for the CTuttle family and Mom de Plume.
Till the morrow.
Fern @ 257
Fern -
Between the heat and sweat pouring down my face, it all has about the same blur to me, especially with my over-forty eyes. I tell you at 100 degrees the brain starts to cook. Question: Is there really a construction company called John Galt?
Night RonD
RonD @ 263
Mahalo, Ron, sleep well!!!
QuakerGirl @ 264
I’ll tell you – my brain turns to cabbage well before the temp hits 100. And as for my over-fifty eyes…
is everyone trying to get the uno?
Suzanne @ 268
It would seem so.
Maybe some good news..but who knows these days:
LOS ANGELES – Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger gave a chilly reception Thursday to a GOP-backed plan to change the way California awards electoral votes in presidential elections — a proposal critics say could tilt the outcome in favor of Republicans.
“In principle, I don’t like to change the rules in the middle of the game,” the Republican governor told reporters.
Schwarzenegger added he wasn’t versed in details of the ballot proposal and stressed he wasn’t taking a definitive position. But his uneasy response is likely to make it harder for supporters to build momentum and could chill fundraising.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..rnia_votes
ccmask @ 259
But…but…I thought John Galt was the NeoCon God. He’s perfect. I have it on good authority because Ayn Rand said so.
Fern @ 267
Oh well, Fern, we can talk girl!
Siun @ 211
The lead time for comments on the upcoming McNerney thread is not all that much. So, I would encourage people to start thinking about their questions now.
I, for one, would be interested to hear how his DC staff has influenced his POV.
links to follow from last Babaloo thread:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-913221
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-913230
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-913240
Sorry for the inelegant links, but time is of the utmost.
Fern @ 266
It’s a shell company, maybe a mob front. The question is, how did they get the contract for the demolition. Follow the money.
Hugh @ 25
I believe Shooter had the gall to say he “had other priorities.” Yeah, we’ll, so did the fifty-five thousand American kids whose names are on the wall, and countless (because we chose not to count them) Vietnamese kids who we killed. If there is a draft, let the rich send thier children first, no deferments for anyone this time, for any reason, and….oh, yeah, girls too. You want to see what kind of a total tradgedy war is, send all our kids. Just like our victims. The women who went to Nam wound up saving a lot of lives, many times at the expense of their own, and many times at the expense of their sanity. We never did get around to recognizing them. Not really. But I want to see the Shrubs two daughters drafted first and put in, oh, the military police in Baghdad, then we can talk about some of the other kids, but not before. The whole discussion will change, by and large, when they are sending their own children to their death. And no, I’m not forgetting that there are some serving legislators who have lost kids in the military, and my prayers go out to them, but the rest of this slimy crew. Let em sign their children’s death warant’s.
Yes, there really is a cnstruction firm called John Galt. Who is John Galt?, you ask. It is a sub-contractor for Bovis Lend Lease.
QuakerGirl @ 272
I don’t know how you southern types survive – it’s starting to cool off really nicely in the evenings here and I do appreciate that.
Yeah, EPU territory.
But I think I want to be ready with fact-drawn questions for the critter McNerney.
Before I go do research, something of note. Valley Girl reminded me of this point from babaloo yesterday, re McNerney’s staff:
There may be some mitigation here, and our job is to turn the Congressman, or turn him out.
New thread’s up. They don’t call me Shadowstalker for nothin’.
You know, it seems like the latest talking point is to blame the whole Iraq fiasco on Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki. He’s a divisive figure instead of a unifying one. He can’t bring the Iraqi people together. And so on.
Here’s a little thought experiment: Who would you like to replace him with? I’m feeling generous tonight, so the answer doesn’t even have to be a real person. You can just make someone up out of whole cloth. What, exactly, would this mythical prime minister look like?
My take on Bush’s speech is that they’ve already lost everyone except the wingnuts who already believe the neocon version of Vietnam, so they might as well have a cheerleading session to shore up their support.
But I’ve also found arguments that it’s setup for stab-in-the-back rhetoric to be persuasive.
The view from Hanoi:
Vietnam’s communist government responded to the Bush speech with a pointed statement that made no mention of Iraq: “Regarding the U.S. war in Vietnam, we all know we conducted a war to protect our nation.”
Steve-AR @ 273
The gall. That’s why I’m not super rich. I just don’t have the gall to do something like that. Too much. Thanks for the information. Only on FDL.
Hugh @ 213
Failure of Will, Triumph of Will,Power of Prayer, Personal Affirmations, Magical thinking all of it.
Self hypnosis can work in your personal reality if for example you want to quit smoking.
However it does kind of lose its punch when a mass hypnosis is tried for a long period of time aganist a conflicting external reality.
It also shields you from acknowledging the failures that you could be learning from. Focus on the Purpose the Struggle on getting there not the Dream the Triumph the Victory Laurels.
The history of the Bush Presidency will have a fascinating chapter on the limits of lies,propaganda and mind control in controling the masses.
Frank Probst @ 280
This whole blame the Iraqis business really riles me. Put them in an untenable position and them blame them if they can’t fix it. Hrumph.
Frank Probst @ 279
If Maliki makes it to Monday, I would be very surprised. rip
Steve-AR says: August 23rd, 2007 at 9:57 pm:
“Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger gave a chilly reception Thursday to a GOP-backed plan to change the way California awards electoral votes”
The reactionary wing of the CA GOP (which is most of the CA GOP) has spent the last three weeks pissing on the Gubernator in public during the annual reactionary GOP CA state budget hijacking festival. I’m not surprized the Gubernator is pissing back.
The CA GOP wingnuts are so stupid. They held up the budget for three weeks because they did not like the new CA environmental global warming policies (even though the Gube is implementing them very slowly and very business friendly). Note that had nothing to do with the budet. But either these guys are really stupid, or they settle for the most transparent grandstanding. They got some very small symbolic gestures in return or imposing some new regulations two years earlier. I guess they just figure when the new regs are due they will hold up the budget then and try to get rid of them.
CA needs to get rid of the 2/3 majority needed for a budget. But if the GOP’s antics this summer pissed off the Gube and he won’t support this initiative, maybe something good came of it this year.
ccmask @ 286
Why do you say that?
Fern @ 277
I’m in the Sierra Nevada foothills in California. Born and reared in New Orleans with entire family still there. I spend part of my time in Nevada where I’m registered to vote. How’s that for confusion?
What ever happened to the fog that is supposed to sweep across the Pacific and cover half the state? Normally we have hot days and cool evenings. Not any more. Global warming.
Mod help please at my comment at 284 instead of ” It also shields you acknowledging ” could you please change it to “It also shields you from acknowledging”
Done.
Fern @ 288
Didn’t Condi Rice pursue him so he’d be our boy in
HavanaIraq.Fern @ 288
I think he is getting set up. Bush is sticking up for him so that he will look so surprised when it happens. JMO
Thank You Mod!
Is this place bugged? It seemed so during the 100s. Anyway, as long as we’re OT, I’d like to provide this:
Second Quarter report on Priming the Pump
*On April 27, looseheadprop wrote her top post on Priming the Pump
*In looseheadprop’s post, she called for a “virtual think tank” to develop articles of impeachment that satisfied certain standards and order of proof.
In the days since her post, I didn’t notice anyone stepping up to respond. So, following a tip by Selise, I started a workspace to develop such a virtual think tank, Priming the Pump workspace on May 19.
*On May 20, I headlined looseheadprop’s idea in a post on DailyKos, Priming the Pump for Impeachment. I also notified David Swanson, who had organized an impeachment website. That same day, the site got more than 300 views. Around that time, half a dozen people, mostly associated with FDL, “joined” the site.
My vision for this workspace was to create a communal workspace in which activists interested in impeachment could work to develop and refine articles of impeachment on Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales, following guidelines suggested by looseheadprop. This vision has not been realized, as to date I have been the only one who has added content to the site.
But that doesn’t mean that the site has been ignored. Usage statistics show a steady stream of visitors. The most popular pages on the site have been (”Articles of Impeachment for” [AOIF]):
1. The home page, 627 views
2;. AOIF President George W. Bush, 147 views;
3. AOIF Vice President Dick Cheney, 121 views;
4. AOIF Attorney-General Alberto Gonzales, 114 views;
5. AOIF George W. Bush et al. (BushCo.), 61 views;
6. Introduction and guiding principles, 50 views
Also, in addition to the daily stream of views, there have also been a few days with especially large numbers of visits:
* Initial launch:
5/20/2007 309 views
5/21/2007 78
5/22/2007 70
5/24/2007 36
5/27/2007 67
5/28/2007 43
5/29/2007 31
7/13/2007 41
8/1/2007 44
When new resources become available, I add them. There is still a lot of basic work to do, but each page has solid information to start with. The Gonzales page is a particular focus of attention now, because there are indications that the impeachment of Gonzales is the most likely to be put back on the table.
And each page has a “discussion” tab, and those comments do get viewers.
The invitation to help remains open!
Bob in HI
And the MSM lapped it up like the finest milk and honey. Blech.
Don’t blame Bush; alcohol has erased his memory of those times, and his speechwriter is a graduate of Regent University.
We should also remember that what Dan Rather did in bringing attention to Bush’s being AWOL comes close to proving that 2 2=4 using dollar bills that turn out to be counterfeit. Would such have proved that he’s biased against those who think 2 2=5? Of all the records that have been mentioned regarding Bush’s “service” record, there isn’t one vouching for him which couldn’t have been a lie by an applepolisher afraid of his then-Congressman father.
Proposed new slogan/chant for the next anti-war demonstration [would look good on freeway blogger signs as well]:
How would you know? You didn’t go!! or
How would Bush know? He didn’t go!!
Every day this war goes on, the Bush family and its allies get richer, while 9 American citizens out of 10 get poorer and deeper in debt. The psychic energy required for our President/War Profiteer to not realize this himself and feel guilty about it must be even greater than the energy he is putting into the effort to convince Americans that his version of the war’s effect on Iraqis bears some relationship to reality.