Karl Rove’s predictions certainly do not come true with the regularity that many a beltway bore would like to ascribe to him, but at least with some frequency he clearly telegraphs his intent. From the WSJ on August 14:
Mr. Rove also said he expects the president’s approval rating to rise again, and that conditions in Iraq will improve as the U.S. military surge continues. He said he expects Democrats to be divided this fall in the battle over warrantless wiretapping, while the budget battle — and a series of presidential vetoes — should help Republicans gain an edge on spending restraint and taxes. (emphasis mine).
After Bush bullied the Democrats into passing really horrendous FISA legislation (although there is some argument to be made that it’s what they really wanted to do anyway, they were just looking for a bit of cover), he made it quite clear that they hadn’t gone far enough. Remember what he said when he signed the damn thing?
When Congress returns in September the Intelligence committees and leaders in both parties will need to complete work on the comprehensive reforms requested by Director McConnell, including the important issue of providing meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation following the attacks of September 11, 2001.
Jack Balkin helpfully translated:
Apparently “allegedly helped us stay safe” is Bush Administration code for telecom companies and government officials who participated in a conspiracy to perform illegal surveillance.
Now Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, who we’re told pulled a bait-and-switch with House Democrats over the FISA legislation in the first place, says we need…drum roll please:
The issue that we did not address, which has to be addressed is the liability protection for the private sector now is proscriptive, meaning going forward. We’ve got a retroactive problem. When I went through and briefed the various senators and congressmen, the issue was alright, look, we don’t want to work that right now, it’s too hard because we want to find out about some issues of the past. So what I recommended to the administration is, ‘Let’s take that off the table for now and take it up when Congress reconvenes in September.’ . . . No, the retroactive liability protection has got to be addressed.
As Glenn Greenwald notes, McConnell has “extensive private sector connections with the very telecommunication companies for which he is now demanding immunity.” Granted, something like this is small potatoes next to the gargantuan moral and ethical transgressions perpetrated on a regular basis by members of the Bush administration, but in a rational world it would disqualify him for participation in this discussion.
Says Glenn:
McConnell’s ties to these companies are so deep and numerous that it really rises to the level of conflict of interest for him to demand — on national security grounds, no less — that they be granted full immunity from liability for past illegal acts. He is, in essence, demanding immunity for vast numbers of his former partners, clients, associates and scores of business interests in which he had, if not still has, a substantial stake. This conflict is glaring and extreme, but Democrats said nothing about it when granting prospective immunity to this industry at his insistence. Thus far, they have also said nothing in the face of McConnell’s demands that this immunity now be made retroactive as well.
We know what they’re doing to do. We know they’re going to do it because they’re tired of “various senators and congressmen” who want to “find out about some issues of the past” and they’re just not wild about that oversight thing and would really like to hamstring it whenever possible. We know that the very guy who’s asking for it has screwed the Democrats in the past, that he can’t be trusted and that he is not in a position to ethically be asking for this.
So knowing all these things, it would be great to hear the Democratic leadership get out in front of this thing and contribute one more entry to Karl Rove’s legacy of failed predictions.
Update: Bmaz, from the comments:
The issue of telco liability is the biggest freaking red herring I have ever seen. The attempt to get immunity for the telcos is not out of any concern for the telcos. The telcos were given assurances and certifications of legality by the government. The government will owe them indemnification for any resulting liability. This is an absolutely nonsensical issue. The Bushies want to get a measure of immunity for themselves by having the propriety of the telcos upheld through an immunity grant to them, and they also want it to quash the cases that are currently in court (such as those currently being litigated in NDCA District Court and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) so that their illegal and immoral conduct is not further exposed. Nobody should worry about the poor telcos going bankrupt or anything. This is complete and absolute BS.
Related posts:
- Warrantless Wiretapping: Vaughn Walker’s Chess Game
- Rahm’s Game Plan: Blackmail Progressives with “Cash For Clunkers”
- Look Out, Charlie Crist: Teabagger World Domination Plan Coming to Florida
- Vaughn Walker’s Chess Game: Sue the Telecoms, Part One
- Breaking! Judge Walker Gets Ready to Penalize the Government in al-Haramain





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

1
3
2 and Hello Jane.
or two
What does Zed mean?
5?
or three ok 7.
dakine01 @ 4
Dang, Dakine, we’re both off!!!
nice to see the ACLU ad on the best website!
Just a bet.
Rove predicts X.
Some Dem predicts Y.
I’ll place my money on X.
CTuttle @ 8
So’s Millineryman. Guess we just all need to work on our timing.
demo – people
crazy – insane
democrazy – The insane notion that people can be trusted to govern themselves.
(From the modern politician’s handbook)
I would like to see the Democrats ensure that Rove’s future predictions are etched into a cinder block wall with a pilfered spoon.
Those sheep had better not pass that retroactive liability immunity BS!!! I’ll be keeping a close eye on my critters!!!
Everythingseemssoneat @ 5
In earlier versions of the Wordpress software, when no comments were showing on a new post, the first comment would display with the number “zero” and called “zed” (although it would be comment #1 to folks who got here after comments had started). That no longer happens but is still used to signify the first comment for old times sake.
OT a wee bit, but germane to many of our discussions, I present to you:
The Dems don’t have the votes to start undoing this shit..the best we can hope for is to slow it down and expose the criminality. One can only know in retrospect but it is looking like 11/08 may be the last chance to save our Constitutional Democracy.
dakine01- I see. Thank you. I’ve been wondering that for a while.
AT&T is scared and it couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of corporate weenies.
Give ‘em the immunity they seek ONLY if they all agree to quit fighting Net Neutrality for the next 25 years.
dakine01 @ 15
A much coveted ‘prize’, indeed!!! ;-)
barb in montana @ 9
I joined through the link. No promise of a card though.
In otherwords, now they are putting together the structure that the KGB had in place for years….where everyone spied on everyone else, and there was no legal recourse.
We need to turn out this ENTIRE democratic congress. They have sold out all of the Constitution, and it ain’t coming back.
They don’t need any of this stuff to protect American from terror. They need it to prevent political dissent. The Constitution is, in their eyes, just a piece of paper. And as we were saying the other night, shows like Law and Order are just the Government’s propaganda to make people feel that you can’t oppose them.
The Dems need a dose of reality, to wit, no contributions at all from us, the little people. When they wake up and realize that they have no money from the people, they might figure it’s time to reign in these jackbooted faciasts who have taken over the American Government. Bush and his gang certainly aren’t Americans. Seems to me that if you act in a manner that is unconstitutional, because you have packed the courts, you are a traitor. Bottom line. And when they kill all our troops they will try to draft our young people. They might get a huge surprise.
It would be great to hear the Democratic leadership get out in front, but that assumes that there actually is a Democratic leadership. Sadly, that appears to be a mythical entity.
The natives are restless.
Eureka Springs @ 21
If you joined, you should be getting you “card”.
I am card carrying ACLU member 64504856. I carry it next to my concealed carry card. (It’s a long story)
AMDOCS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdocs
Steve-AR @ 25
These days, I’m coming to appreciate that combination.
The issue of telco liability is the biggest freaking red herring I have ever seen. The attempt to get immunity for the telcos is not out of any concern for the telcos. The telcos were given assurances and certifications of legality by the government. The government will owe them indemnification for any resulting liability. This is an absolutely nonsensical issue. The Bushies want to get a measure of immunity for themselves by having the propriety of the telcos upheld through an immunity grant to them, and they also want it to quash the cases that are currently in court (such as those currently being litigated in NDCA District Court and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) so that their illegal and immoral conduct is not further exposed. Nobody should worry about the poor telcos going bankrupt or anything. This is complete and absolute BS.
the democrats are starTing to PISS me off as much as the repukelcans
I guess they don’t know we are NOT party loyalists, we back democrats becuase they PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION and when they stop they will LOOSE
we have to let them know the fisa provisions they made ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE
and we have to let them know there is NO liability protection for companies that allowed the administration to steal our information
NONE
I want class action status and I want them PUNSIHED
dakine01 @ 19
Nah, put the criminals in jail, and they won’t be able to fight Net Neutrality.
Two birds with one stone, doncha know?
bmaz @ 28
Yup, it’s all about hiding the crimes. No liability, no witnesses.
Mike McConnell, like David Petraeus or for those with longer memories Alberto Gonzales, is another conflicted Administration hack sold to us as a dispassionate, impartial professional. He blew his credibilty on the FISA scam and come January 2009 should be fired. They told us that he was the guy who could ferret out the secrets but the truth is he’s just a weasel on the make.
Just here for a drive-by while I’m working at home, but I read:
Yeah. It would. Does anyone really thing any of the “leadership” (particularly in the Senate) are going to take their thumbs out of where they’re firmly lodged? You would think it would be difficult to “keep your seat” with your thumb there…
Mad Dogs @ 30
I like how ya think…!!!
Eureka Springs @ 21
You’ll get a card. I joined online too.
Mad Dogs @ 16
As a Virginian, I have to disagree with a few points of that analysis (at least from the point of view of Warner; it may well apply to other Repubs.)
It’s a near-certainty that Warner isn’t running for re-election in ‘08. I suspect his statement reflects the fact that he knows how screwed up Iraq is, but he doesn’t want to stir up a storm of wingnut opposition to his chosen successor, Tom Davis. (The wingnuts already don’t trust Davis because he’s from Northern Virginia, so they’ll likely line up behind George Allen — really — if he gets into the race, or failed former Gov. Gilmore if not.)
Anyway, I think this is the reason we are treated to the sad spectacle of a once-proud and highly respected moderate Republican reduced to saying that it would be really nice if the president brought some troops home, but of course it’s not Congress’ place to tell to do that.
Warner is never going to take a principled stand on anything again, at least not until he is safely retired.
(Oh, and the hillbilly dialect isn’t at all appropriate for Warner, who grew up in DC and unlike carpetbagger George Allen, doesn’t pretend to be a southerner.)
The Dems do have the votes, they just need to structure the votes in a way that inaction leads to a Dem victory.
For example, the FISA atrocity has a sunset clause; they can only wiretap freely for six months. After that, they need Congress to pass a new bill. If Congress says no, then we return to the previous law.
Likewise, without the approval of Democrats, Bush gets no money next year. For anything.
They just need to set it up so that Republican attempts to filibuster harm what Bush wants to do. Attach everything to must-pass bills. If some Democrats defect, it’s OK as long as the good guys retain 41.
But the Republicans will accuse of us terrible things, they whine. The Republicans will accuse the Democrats of being traitors no matter what the Democrats do, so the Democrats might as well do the right thing.
dakine01 @ 15
Even though zed is Canadian for “z” aka “zee” and has nothing to do with zero at all.
I gave up my AT&T landline and went to Sprint. No regrets at all. When the gal asked why I was giving up the account, I told her it was because of domestic spying. She just said ‘oh’ as though it was on her computer screen as an option for quitting.
Oh. And I’m starting to enjoy the erudite conversations I’m having with myself at the end of old threads.
Hugh @ 32
by squirreling away info, did this martinet gopher broke and hamster-ring the efforts to shed light on voter caging?
Loo Hoo. @ 39
I thought Qwest was the only telecom that resisted the requests, subsequently, the DoJ went after the CEO, IIRC…!!!
punaise came home!!! (((punaise!!!)
punaise @ 41
Wow – this is a rodent-rich environment – you’re really beavering away.
Joe Buck @ 37
Yes, exactly. The withdrawal deadline and Webb’s troop-rotation conditions are amendments to the Defense authorization, which Bush needs. If they want to filibuster them, they’re the ones shutting down the Defense Department.
(BTW, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are professional Capitol Hill reporters, like that Craig Crawford who’s always on Countdown, who don’t seem to understand this, instead blathering about how they have to have enough votes to override a veto.)
Fern @ 44
We’re back in Animal Planet. Beaver Away!
CTuttle, I haven’t read anywhere that Sprint cooperated, have you?
bmaz @ 28
I disagree. The telecoms have a fiduciary trust to their stockholders to avoid entering into arrangements which they are likely to know are illegal and incurring the resultant liability from them. The government can wave a wand but that doesn’t mean the telecoms have to start believing in fairies.
It’s rather like this Administration’s use of torture. Saying they didn’t did not indemnify those CIA interrogators from being held accountable for torturing whether it was called so or not. The MCA was an attempt to muddle the waters and give such immunity to them, but if the MCA should be found unconstitutional on these grounds they will find themselves back in their original legal predicament. Just because the government says it is OK doesn’t mean it’s OK and that there’s no legal liability.
Fern @ 40
Well, it can be a good way to organize thoughts and marshal arguments. Just cut-and-paste the results to somewhere afterwards, so you can have them handy later.
Woo hoo, Loo Hoo!
Yes, exactly. The withdrawal deadline and Webb’s troop-rotation conditions are amendments to the Defense authorization, which Bush needs. If they want to filibuster them, they’re the ones shutting down the Defense Department.
The same Jim Web that totally agrees with Bush’s analysis of the Vietnam war?
Did you miss us, bedbug? Are you home for reals or just on an internet cafe type dealio?
Bush is absolutely right about the consequences of failure!
If we want to lessen the consequences of failure we must first remove the causes of failure.
OMG, Bush is the cause of failure and to make Iraq turn out less bad we must remove him. It’s just like a cancer; you can’t get better until you eradicate the damn thing!
ERADICATE THE CANCER!!!
Loo Hoo. @ 47
I’m certain Qwest was the only one that rebuffed the Maladministration’s efforts, I remember a credible source mentioning it about a year ago…!!!
Hugh @ 48
In a model business environment the company may have a fiduciary responsibility to the stockholders but, as another result of the BushCo world, it has become obvious that most companies are in business solely to perpetuate the corporate management and the bonuses and stock options. Few stockholders are ever paid attention to other than in the most perfunctory way.
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi.
My teachers look at my work at school. My brother checks how well I did my chores. When I baby-sit, the people that pay me look at how well I took care of their kids. So why do repubs think nobody should look at how well they do their job?
i know the answer. A word I just learned. HUBRIS.
raven, what did Webb say in agreement with Bush. I have been out of the loop totally.
Fern @ 44
McConnell was something of a mole until the FISA fiasco exposed him for the rat he is.
Well said, Jane. And could we have a statement from the Democratic front runners about what the Dems’ policy position should be, and announce it before five mintues before the vote closes? Thank you.
Loo Hoo. @ 52
it was surprisingly easy to unplug for a couple of weeks, did check in here a couple of times. alas, vaction is over. back to goofing off from the workplace.
And the mantra of the Democrats in conceding to DNI McConnell’s every demand was “we trust him.” But who was McConnell relying upon and “trusting” to get “this very, very complex bill” (reduced from 66 pages to 11 at final passage) crafted? “20 [Executive Branch] lawyers” – undoubtedly including David Addington, Cheney’s puppet.
Reading the long account of the process that McConnell gave to the El Paso Times, the impression I was left with was that our federal legislators sat back and watched as Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, assisted by 20 Executive Branch attorneys, took over the role of Congress and crafted vital FISA legislation (that clearly fails to protect Constitutionally-protected liberties), almost entirely behind closed doors.
Any attempt by legislators to re-insert themselves into the process (though without public hearings or other public debate) was rejected mostly out-of-hand by McConnell and his lawyers in the end – to the extent that the removal of retroactive immunity (for now) seems to have been McConnell’s own suggestion, doubtless because he figured he could come back and win the next round too, just as easily. [Bush and Cheney are already demanding a promise to pass that corporate immunity provision from Congress before they will release the subpoenaed DOJ/OLC legal justifications that Leahy and the Judiciary Committees have requested…]
It is beyond stunning how our rights to and Constitutionally-mandated power of self-determination via our Congress have been carelessly, indifferently, outrageously given away, ceded, surrendered to a power-addicted president by the incumbents (of all political party persuasions) of our Legislative Branch of government.
Http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..v=hcmodule
scarecrow @ 59
Yes. When’s the next debate and who’s running it? We need on the record statements.
Hugh @ 58
Voles waggin’ a tale
SnarKassandra @ 56
SnarKassandra,
Hubris is prominent in much of Greek Mythology. As is your name. You should do some quick study of Edith Hamilton’s Mythology or Bulfinch’s Age of Fable either one.
Loo Hoo. @ 57
He has been conspicuously quite because he clearly believes the Vietnam was “lost” by liberals and the media.
Bush vs Kerry
To be sure, Kerry deserves condemnation for his activities as the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). In the early 1970s, this small organization — never more than 7,000 veterans out of a potential pool of 9 million — became the darling of the anti-war movement and the liberal media. Its activities went far beyond simply criticizing the politics of the war to repeatedly and dishonestly misrepresenting the service of Vietnam veterans and the positive feelings most felt after serving.
dakine01 @ 64
Wouldn’t mind doing that myself. But Ms. Cassie is already wise beyond her years. That summary of accountability would put the entire Congress to shame.
scarecrow @ 59
Um, yeah.
Maybe the dems are going to bring up some things that we are unaware of when they come back all rested. Some things that will make telecom spying/FISA look trivial. Remember that Pelosi said we only know the half of it….
punaise – delighted you’re back. It was “a mature” hour here without ya.
“…it would be great to hear the Democratic leadership get out in front of this thing..”
It’d be great if there were a Santa Claus too, but unfortunately there is no Santa Claus and there is no Democrat who has the balls to buck these assholes.
Good one, Gordon! You rascal, you!
scarecrow @ 66
So true.
I was one of those who enjoyed good writing whether it had to do with school or not so read both books as well as The Illiad and The Oddyssey before I ever had them assigned in school.
GordonM @ 69
doing my level best to drag down the level of discourse around here…
On the issues of telco liability, if I were their counsel, I would not be comfortable with any “it’s okay because we said so” signed by the Bush Admin’s Attorney Generals et al. Nor would I bet my company on indemnification by an Adminstration that might well say, “we had the inherent authority under Article 2, so we didn’t do anything wrong, and we’re not going to indemnify you. Go appeal your case.” It would be malpractice for a corporate counsel to rely on such assurances. JMO.
Bmaz my man,
Great to see you taking a dip in the lake.
I’ve been following your dialogue at Marcy’s place as well. I gave you a plug on the impeach Fredo idea the other day. It’s a pleasure to get your insights.
Jonathan @ 10
I tweaked it for you there.
raven @ 65
Or try this one:
Webb does NOT believe that there are parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. Webb says that he “still strongly support[s] the Vietnam War,” that the “logic was sustainable,” that as late as 1972, a Harris survey indicated that 74% of the American people felt it was important that South Vietnam not fall to the Communists.
[Bush and Cheney are already demanding a promise to pass that corporate immunity provision from Congress before they will release the subpoenaed DOJ/OLC legal justifications that Leahy and the Judiciary Committees have requested…]
Huh – hadn’t heard that one before. Didn’t we just have a post about Lucy pulling the football out from in front of Charlie Brown again?
Was Charles Schulz the secret progenitor of Republican policy?
raven @ 77
Maybe 74% of the people were brainwashed.
Yes, but raven, what’s Webb saying about Iraq? That’s what matters now.
SnarKassandra @ 56
Hubris is a great word. I think my first post here was something like “When snark becomes hubris; the Gods will punish”
CHS said something like “If you post cryptic comments, people will think you are weird.”
Maybe 74% of the people were brainwashed.
That statistic is clearly bologna, what’s really important here is that Webb says that he “still strongly support[s] the Vietnam War,” that the “logic was sustainable,
Steve, was Christy right? Are you weird? *G*
Maybe 74% of the people were brainwashed.
Assuming the poll was accurate, it doesn’t follow that 74% of the public were in favor of reentering South Vietnam with 100,000 US troops to stop the NVA when they broke the agreement.
Once we got out, I don’t think the public would have supported going back in.
as late as 1972, a Harris survey indicated that 74% of the American people felt it was important that South Vietnam not fall to the Communists
The man’s criminally insane. It was what the Vietnamese people thought that mattered, not what the Americans thought.
Besides that, they were WRONG. Far from America falling after Vietnam, the Soviet Union disintegrated and China went capitalist.
On that logic, I suppose we can expect “Islamofascism” to self destruct twenty years after America withdraws from Iraq. Which might in fact be true; most people in the area would think OBL was an asshole if he weren’t goosing the American eagle every now and then.
SnarKassandra @ 79
It was a totally different world then Cassie. People were arrested for having long hair or dressing differently. There was a total divide in the country far more pronounced than it is today, although there are still many undercurrents rippling through today from those years.
Much of what we see today in the actions of the fundie xtianists is in response to those years whether it’s a backlash against the Civil Rights movement, women’s rights, anti-war/anti-draft, basic human freedoms and dignity whatever.
scarecrow @ 84
I’d really like to see the question that was asked that yielded that stat.
raven @ 51
By all means, let’s get rid of all Democrats who have ever said anything objectionable. That’ll help a lot.
I am so tired of the defeatist crap that’s been filling up FDL lately. Later, guys.
dakine01 @ 72
The Audio book of the Fagles’ translation of the Odyssey is hypnotic.
Loo Hoo. @ 83
CHS is a very smart lady.
Redshift @ 88
Said something objectionable. 58,000 Americans and upward of 3 million Vietnamese dead. I’m sorry I brought it up.
I didn’t realize this was a Democratic Party web site.
Keep your eye on the ball Dems (Rove). He’s already doing nasty things. Beginning with the electoral thingie in Cali.
raven @ 82
Yes, it strikes of the old German recounting how if Hitler had done this or Rommel had done that the outcome would somehow have been different. If what had happened did not happen then something else could have happened, except, of course, that it did happen. The Germans lost WWII and we lost in Vietnam.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 93
I don’t know if anyone posted this today, but it is an interesting diary at Kos about options should it happen:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..17132/3342
punaise @ 73
And you have triumphed gloriously! Missed ya.
raven @ 65
I’m proud to say I was a part of this group and many of us distrusted Kerry after he decided VVAW should not branch out to organize poor people and the unemployed.
Looking back now, knowing his ties to Skull and Bones, and his Swift Boat service (Swifts were used to insert SEAL teams carrying out covert ops) I’m not so sure he wasn’t playing a double game back then.
His involvement in the Bill Tyree case in Massachussetts when he was Commonwealth Attorney certainly points towards working for the intel community to silence a critiv who knew too much about secret wars in Central America.
Hey Raven! Another Black Irishman from Clare? My family’s from Ennis on Galway Bay.
Fern @ 96
Hey, that’s my job!
raven @ 91:
I don’t think you said something necessarily objectionable; I think it is a culmination of all the negativity and people looking for the political miracle to happen over night and the flame throwing that ensues because all Ds are not casting perfect votes 150% of the time.
There are serious problems across the board as you are aware that have been riding on runaway trains for more than six years. The Ds have achieved a small piece of power for eight months and are trying to lasso those trains and get them under control while fending off the lunatics in the admin and Congress from continuing their hell-bent path to destruction.
Too many people seem to think that perfection is achievable in a political world.
Hugh @ 48
Hugh – Sorry, was away for a while. If you see this, that is exactly my point. The telcos have certifications in their hand, executed by the government stating that it is legal and necessary. There is no financial liability because the government will be required to indemnify, in non-legal jargon cover, any liabilities incurred by the telcos as a result of their “cooperation” with the government. The concerns you evidence are not really a concern for the telcos. True they will have to defend any suits filed and litigated, but they will then be entitled to reimbursement for the awards in those suits and the costs in defending them.
raven @ 87
When I was living in Reno about 12 years ago, I had a part time job with a polling company, and depending on how the question was framed you could get whatever answer you wanted unless the person you were talking to actually saw through what the people contracting the poll were trying to get at.
It’s all in the question
LS @ 95
I do not for one minute think that he is off the payroll.
There is no winning in killing…ever. There is only loss.
dakine01 @ 86
I think a lot of what we’re seeing today is the guys who were too scared of their own shadows to confront those of us who had been in the war and who were vocally against it, using their positions of privilege, gained at the expense of other people fighting and dying in their places, to force their dreams of uber-patriotism on this country and there is NO definable opposition either in the way of an organized antiwar movement or in a Congress willing to use its oversight powers in an effective way.
Dakine’s right. There was a boy in my junior high biology class, and the teacher came up behind him and whacked off his hair. This was maybe 1966. And I witnessed a teacher ask a boy how she could be sure he was a boy, he had long hair. He started unzipping his pants and she backed off.
Girls had to wear dresses/skirts, no pants.
james @ 97
Oh yea, when he won Iowa a couple of my Dewey Canyon buddies called me. We laughed about how Kerry tried to act like he was in charge with that stupid ass bullhorn. I give him credit for his stance there but it was most surely a strategy for his political aspirations.
I’d have to look to see exactly where my people were from. They were Figg’s related to James Figg, the father of modern boxing or so they say.
Fern @ 102
He just “thinks” he’s below the radar.
I wish HRC would clean Rove’s clock. Not this pablum she been slinging about how Karl is obsessed with her. Come on Hillary. Get with it!
punaise @ 73
wouldn’t that be a “tilting best”?
I’m late on this, but. . .
Uh, no, McConnell, you mean “prospective”, not “proscriptive”. “Proscriptive” means “forbidden by law”, for example exactly what you’re trying to forgive the private sector for having done. Don’t try to sound smarter than you really are–it never works, especially for Bush administration appointees.
john in sacramento @ 101
That’s why I did a qualitative dissertation.
Margot @ 105
I didn’t get my hair cut for 7 years after I came home. I someone didn’t like it we got down to business real quick.
Margot @ 105
It’s different now too, because you are arrested for wearing T-shirts that contradict the message of the powers that be. It is different now, because people are prevented from flying on airplanes, because the are on lists. It is different now, because Cat Stevens is considered a terrorist.
dakine01 @ 99
You know I’m a lighting rod.
punaise @ 73
Yeah, good. See if you can work “nutria” in with all the other rodents. Bonus points for use of the word “coprophagous” in the same sentence.
I’m having oversight-hearing withdrawals.
We are sick to death of all this polite, nice deadpan claptrap that the Democratic leadership spews. Good gawd Demos. Just what does it take to light a fire under you?
raven @ 114
I love that you are a lightening rod Raven.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
Don’t be so negative or I’ll go to bed. Come to think of it I’m going to bed either way!
Raven,
Yepper. Real quick way to tell who’s for you and who’s agin you.
Don’t know if this is in the links in the main post but …
McConnell admits ATT and Verizon helped with the wiretaps
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/08/23/0412246.shtml
scarecrow @ 74
Scarecrow – I can tell you this much. I have litigated cases similar to this where a corporation acted as a designated agent and co-conspirator, with signed authorization by the governmental entity involved (local sheriffs and DEA). Once a judgment was obtained against the corp, the government covered their losses and expenses. The flip side of being excluded and pimped by the Federal government for the corporate stockholders as Hugh pondered is also applicable. Not cooperating has just as drastic potential deleterious possibilities.
raven @ 114
Careful or we’ll round up Ed.
james @ 123
Noooooooooooooo !
Jim Clausen @ 75
Hey Claus, how you been?
jayt @ 116
Me too. August feels so free floating…but things are always happening and changing.
james @ 123
dakine always treats me with great equanimity and I appreciate it.
james @ 123
No!!! Have mercy!
Margot @ 105
It’s a different country, much worse. As far a turning points in American History, I think we are now at about 1859..with the same degree of uncertainty in the outcome.
Even Hubert Humphrey had more pizzazz in his little finger than do the front runners.
I can’t believe we are talking about this silly war against the Islamofascists when there’s homersexshuls that are fixin’ to get hitched.
-GSD
raven @ 127
That’s cuz we went to different schools together…
raven @ 127
I always like your comments and learn from them. For some reason today I have been thinking about the “69 Dem Convention in Chicago and what the demonstrators were yelling – the whole world is watching. Now, too.
raven @ 127
You guys are two of among the many reasons I feel at home here; and then there are the wonderful mods.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
This is the question. Wouldn’t it be fun to ask Ms. Pelosi, “If you had incontrovertible proof that the President had ordered the murder of a journalist, or a high-profile Administration critic, would you put impeachment on the table then?”
Twain @ 133
Actually, it was 1968.
james @ 136
Sorry, you’re right but fingers don’t always work.
RonD @ 135
Or the Senator from Minnesota.
Steve-AR @ 129
I’m not sure it’s so much worse. I think there is a lot of selective memory of the past. Americans believe their own propaganda about their national origins and values.
john in sacramento @ 122
bmaz @ 121
bmaz,
Where, then, does a corporation draw the line? “We’re running this sting against foreign terrorists,” says the govt agent to a hotel ceo and hotel counsel, “and we’d like you to put this drug into the terrorists’ breakfast.”
Do you go along, or not?
What happens if the drug actually kills the folks? Who gets brought up on charges of premeditated murder, and conspiracy to commit the same?
And what happens if it turns out that these folks weren’t actually terrorists in the first place?
Let me repeat: When the government comes along and says “We’d like you to do something” and you view it as illegal, where do you draw the line at going along with the program?
raven @ 127
BZZZTT… That lightning rod thing! Dakine’s a truly cool dude. We’re glad you’re here, raven.
Speaking of 1968, Arthur Bremer to be freed from the NY Times.
james @ 138
Wasn’t that a different administration?
My Pappy was a delegate at the 68 convention.
He was clean for Gene.
-GSD
bmaz @ 121
What you are describing sounds like normal principles of law, all based on the assumption that the Govt respects the rule of law and acts in good faith. The point I’m raising is that this is not longer the case — and a corporate counsel would have to consider that. Logically, you’d think the Bush Admin would have an incentive to keep the telcos happy, because they need their cooperation — but how would the Bush DoJ deal with the suit? Would it be more interested in undermining the case? I dunno. And what happens when the DoJ is now under President ClintonObamaEdwards? I just think there’s some residual risk that due diligence would require you consider.
james @ 138
Answer: South sea black pearl clutching….ahem…clutching…ahem…clutching..ahem…I’m staying focussed on the war I have to stop….ahem…and explaining the FISA law..I have to change…ahem…clutching…there is no proof of such a thing…and it is off the table..because…it’s not worth it…but, you don’t know the half of it…clutches…
GSD @ 131
You Yankees don’t have the right South’n fundie cadence, it’s “ho-mo-sex-you-als”
Margot @ 105
This was a demonstration I lead in high school! We organized a meeting in the quad at lunch and brought a bullhorn. We wanted the girls to be able to wear pants. The administration folded before we were halfway through. Took the bullhorn and announced that it would be fine for girls to wear pants!
This is after I signed up for woodshop, and they said no. I said yes in no uncertain terms, and they stuck to their guns on that issue. But the issue didn’t go away. I had petitions, and the administration knew it.
The following year, girls were allowed in the shop classes, and boys were allowed in the home ec. classes. What a great feeling this was. 1970.
GSD @ 145
Couldn’t vote yet, but I went door to door for Gene (in a thoroughly Republican area).
Steve-AR,
I’ve been pondering whether it feels like the Gilded Age sliding fast into the Great Depression; the Conformity Rulz 1950s…but no, we had jobs then; or near the start of a civil war.
I have no idea.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
Don’t worry, OKK. If Hillary is anything, she is measured.
Fern @ 139
I think 1859 is about right. The tensions are there betw two diametrically opposed groups who have been at loggerheads since the 60s.
We’re ripe for some sort of denoument because this one-upsmanship BS has gotta stop.
What the hell are our kids learning about politics? That it’s OK to curse out a senator on the senate floor, that promises don’t have to be kept, that if you don’t like someone’s politics you can do whatever you damn well please just don’t get caught, and if you do get caught just lie your ass off even after you’ve sworn to tell the truth. Then if there is a group you don’t like because of their skin color or their country of origin, just ostracize them, separate them from their kids and send them back to where they came from and if all else fails, get your posse together and go to their country (neighborhood) and kill them indiscriminately.
And we wonder why there is violence in this society…forget about the fact that guns are so accessible.
And on that note, I got myself a very nice AK-47 the other day to join my M-16 and M-14.
Loo Hoo. @ 149
LooHoo Would you please go back to DC and see if you can get them organized? I think you are probably just what they need.
Cat Stevens still sucks.
Loo Hoo. @ 152
You’ll get no debate from me on that. ;0)
SnarKassandra @ 144
Paul Wellstone and his wife and a child died in a plane crash about a week before the 2002 midterm elections allowing Norm Coleman to win his seat in an election against Walter Mondale. The same election that saw Max Cleland smeared as a terrorist and Cynthia McKinney voted out in a rigged primary.
dakine01 @ 143
The NYT has been imprisoning people?
LS @ 107
Rove is back in junior college taking a refresher course in math. He is making sure he never miscalculates the amount needed to steal another election.
dakine01 @ 143
Have they been keeping him locked up in the basement at 229 W.43rd Street all these years?
Loo Hoo. @ 149
1975 – I was one of the first boys allowed to take Cooking/Home Ec in my school district. Don’t know who led the charge to change the rules, but I was the first one through the door when it was opened.
You’ll get my chef’s knife away from me when you pry it out of my cold, dead hand.
Peterr @ 158
Buh dap bump!
Loo Hoo. @ 149
In 1969 I tried to take woodshop. School administration required that I get the signatures of both my parents AND my family doctor! I did, but then chickened out after much peer mockery. Haven’t fallen for that one since, thank heavens and STILL wish I’d been able to make horse head book ends!
A few years later, my date and I got our food served burnt to a crisp when we (dirty f-g hippies) went to the ‘wrong’ restaurant in our college town. Watergate was on. My poli sci class was given up to watching it. The instructor–denied tenure in CA during the 50s, rubbed his hands with glee daily. Ah, those were the days.
I’m waiting for this era’s Watergate. Come the day!
Margot @ 151
It feels like the American Empire collapsing into a feudalist, fascist, police state. It feels like “1984″, or “V for Vendetta”. It makes me wonder: what will trigger the exodus and when, and what mechanism will the Unitary Exec use to slam the door?
I obviously need more wine.
Jim Clausen @ 75
Jim, hold it down a little bit… I told bmaz something similar the other day and he said his head started swelling or something… ;-)
And on that note, I got myself a very nice AK-47 the other day to join my M-16 and M-14.
Class III’s?
james @ 157
Oh, I thought the plane crash thing was a LONG time ago.
RonD @ 164
707. It’s better than a movie!!
I’m watching cnn Gods Warriors. We should be taking notes,here.
Talking about how they lobby. Indepth. Very interesting. We should be doing what they are doing for our side. They are nuts
AND committed.
bmaz,
It will be interesting to see how it is litigated if it is litigated. If the government says it’s OK for a telecom to kill someone it doesn’t indemnify the telecom against murder because it is evident that what is being asked is illegal. IIRC not all the telecoms cooperated with the government and this should have been a red flag to the others that were substantial questions at issue. The responsible and legally defensible position for the telecoms, all of the telecoms, should have been “You want help? Show me the court order.” Instead some accepted a piece of shiny paper from the government. I am sure they would argue that piece of paper was sufficient to let them off the hook legally. But the real question for the telecoms, the one that involves fiduciary responsibility and legal liability is “Who are they to look to as the final arbiter in such matters, the government or the law?” At least that is the argument I would make but then IANAL.
marymccurnin @ 159
Egg-zactly. Actually, I think he’s pretty much history. His trick (divide, divide, divide) has left the Right with nothing but a bunch of small interest groups, all feeling ripped off and revulsion at whom they’ve sleeping with for the last 6 years. Some will doubtless be motivated to hold their noses and vote to keep the libruls out of office, but many will stay home.
smapdi @ 155
heurhh!!(indrawn breath!)
longer boats are coming to win us
ride on the peace train
Loo Hoo @ 149
What a great thing! I didn’t do that; I didn’t even think of it. I did make some long wool skirts because it was so cold where I lived. Those weren’t allowed either. Stinking of patchouli oil and wearing long skirts, lol. I got called into the principal’s office and I just said my mom didn’t want me walking home with blue legs anymore.
RonD @ 164
Well, in addition to everyone needing passports to travel out of the country, and that stupid “Keep the brown people out” fence down south, someone here today said there’s a fence being built up north.
Of course, none of this is to keep people out; we get it, they just think we’re as stupid as they are.
SnarKassandra @ 167
Cassie, when I was your age 5 years was an eternity. Enjoy it.
Margot @ 151
It feels like both. Read The Fourth Turning, by Strauss and Howe, or more simply, go to the website Generational Dynamics…the book deals with it more generally, the website makes predictions largely based on generational theory.
ReneND @ 169
If you want to see the ultimate in political organization and lobbying..join the NRA for a year..it’s truly amazing. For today’s NRA, guns and the Second Amendment are just the “hook” to spew the Republikkin agenda.
Steve-AR @ 166
Retired law enforcement, yes. Beautiful beautiful weapons.
I’m hoping to get a Stoner, the gun I used most in Nam, sometime over the next two years.
me at 163
Should have said: denied tenure in the 50’s for his (leftie) politics. (and stuck in temp. jobs for the rest of his teaching career).
Hugh @ 170
That’s why the good pieces of paper are called “warrants.” It’s not just the word of the executive branch, but it’s signed by a member of the judicial branch. THAT’S what insulates third parties – judicial oversight.
smapdi @ 155
Sitting here brooding about the Death of the Enlightenment and being out of wine-now that sucks.
LooHoo Would you please go back to DC and see if you can get them organized? I think you are probably just what they need.
Dang it, I have to work! Someday, I hope.
james @ 174
Supposedly, I’ll need a passport to visit Acadia Nat’l Park (or fly, or get into any federal building) soon.
james @ 175
yup
time telescopes
and patterns emerge
RonD @ 135
Or proof that he ordered the public exposure and destruction of a covert network of CIA operatives focused on nuclear non-proliferation?
Peterr @ 180
Agreed.
SnarKassandra @ 167
Actually there has been more than one plane crash with the Dem candidate IIRC. OR am I just being paranoid?
james @ 178
I had a friend who collected Class III’s. He had about 30. Several M-60’s and a Browning 50.
There may be connections between the co-pilot of Wellstone’s plane and Moussaoui, as well as connections of Nick Berg and Moussaoui.
Weird.
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/11/21730.php
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/gr…..cleid=2582
Shadowstalker @ 176,
That looks VERY interesting. Thanks.
GordonM @ 183
Ayup, that’s the plan.
A passport with a chip inserted in it which we’ll all have to carry so they can track us just like they can do now by our cellphones….even when they are off.
Disposable, pre-paid phones folks, let’s start dropping off the radar.
Shadowstalker @ 176
To be clear: Fourth Turning is the website of Strauss and Howe. GD is run by John J. Zenakis. S&H have no connection with GD, so far as I can see, except that Zenakis is trying to apply their work.
realworld @ 187
Carnahan of MO IIRC. But there have been a lot of politicians killed in plane crashes over the years. Politicians spend a lot of time in planes campaigning or just doing study tours and all. Like Hale Boggs and Nick Begich(?) in AK back in the ’70s.
GordonM @ 183
Yea, totally true, Chertoff wants that too
Oh, BTW, Blackwater gets the pink slip from Univ. of Ill.
Peterr is so very right, I should have delineated it better. I stay away from the 4T site anymore, they have this one troll who annoys the heck outa me.
realworld @ 187
There was Carnahan in Missouri to whom Ashcroft lost the election even though Mel was dead.
Then there’s the theory that JFK, Jr. was gonna announce in August, 1999 that he was running for President. That would have pitted Dubya against that damned Kennedy family again,,,the son of the guy Poppy helped off in 1963.
Was JFK, Jr. Murdered?
Steve-AR @ 166
You can do that?!
Now, they’re gonna ditch Maliki…they’ll need “at least” another 18 months to settle in the new strongman…(prediction, not fact)
What a great thing! I didn’t do that; I didn’t even think of it. I did make some long wool skirts because it was so cold where I lived. Those weren’t allowed either. Stinking of patchouli oil and wearing long skirts, lol. I got called into the principal’s office and I just said my mom didn’t want me walking home with blue legs anymore.
Patchouli oil! I loved the smell and still do, Margot! I remembering the smell of people who were against the war. It was such a brotherhood/sisterhood. Why is there nothing like this happening today? Have they cleaned out the college profs? Just like they cleaned out the Justice Dept.?
Maybe it was the draft that made all the difference, but I’m afraid that it’s all the teevee and video games and cell phones. These kids (my daughters included) don’t get it.
james @ 196
We know he was murdered…he definitely didn’t choke on a ham sandwich.
LS @ 198
Chalabi?
SnarKassandra @ 56
((((Cassie))))
dakine01 @ 193
At the time of that crash, Boggs, who was Cokie Roberts’ dad, was a congressman from Louisian and had been a member of the Warren Commission. He had been saying publicly that the Warren Commission Report should be revisited.
Nick Begich’s son, Nick Begich, Jr. has written a great book with Jeanie Manning called Angels Don’t Play This HAARP about the hijacking of Tesla’s technology for military purposes and weather control.
Hugh and Scarecrow – Hey, I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you have proffered. The murder analogy is not a good one because it is active versus passive for the most part as far as telcos. Pretty much what the telcos have been doing is turning over records or allowing access; it is the government that is coming in and doing the overt acts (albeit it with the help of telco people).
I don’t like this crap anymore than you, or anyone else, does. And, since the question was asked as to what I would do, I would tell the government to go Cheney themselves. But I am not a telco cretin and they have never asked my opinion. Go figure. I guarantee you that the pressure and literally extortion put to them was immense though. Heh, how have things worked out for Qwest (although Nacchio did have some issues on his own, but not that big)? I think this is all a big pile of horse manure; but the meme that we have to give immunity retroactively so that telcos don’ go belly up is just unadulterated BS. That is all I am saying. NO IMMUNITY!
GordonM @ 183
James, ’twas a joke.
dakine01 @ 193
In 1976, Jerry Litton had just won the democratic primary for the US Senate, but his plane went down as he was flying to a victory celebration in Kansas City. (Danforth was the Republican who later won the general election.)
Especially during the last weeks of a campaign, the pressure to make one more flight, hit one more city, do one more event is incredible. Toss in a little bad weather, and its amazing more politicians haven’t died in small plane crashes.
Twain @ 201
Maybe Alawi or maybe they’ll put out an old Hussein guy, like Tariq Aziz…I sure as heck don’t know.
Hugh @ 186
Agreed wholeheartedly. I will post something I wrote to this cluck Philip Bobbitt who penned yesterdays NYT op-ed.
LS @ 207
Perhaps Baghdad Bob – he’s nice and cheerful.
bmaz @ 204
On that we agree.
Twain @ 209
Chemical Ali, is about to go on trial…we know how that goes…kinda like Texas.
LS @ 198
After that statement of Maliki’s yesterday-”we can find other friends” or something to that effect-I had this wild second where I could almost hear Bush thinking: “Well, F**k you then, Malarkey, or whatever your name is”…and then turns to Gates and says, “Pull the troops out now and let’s see how long this piece of sh*t keeps his head.”
Spite is maybe the only thing that could make Bush withdraw.
Hugh, Peterr and Scarecrow. this was sent to Phil Bobbitt in response to his op-ed in NYT:
Dr. Bobbitt,
I just read your op-ed piece in the New York Times. I will be honest, I find it to be little more than a shill job for the invasive authoritarian desires of the current administration and the intelligence/law enforcement community. You make a lot of grandiose statements with little to no support, and that pander to the base fear that has been literally religiously drummed into the American citizenry by the current administration. I am but one man and one vote, but I do not want to trade my fundamental rights, liberties and privacy for the small incremental gain in security, at best, offered by the warrantless impingements on privacy you advocate. Even, assuming arguendo, that the program and doctrine you advocate is necessary, I fail to see why it cannot be done within a judicially supervised framework such as the FISC with warrants. This is especially compelling in light of the fact that warrants are currently allowed to be obtained within three days after the fact.
That is my position, but I am willing to hear you out if you are willing to actually supply meaningful facts, figures, statistics and technical explanations for your statements. Quite frankly, I do not think that you either can or will. Specifically, I would like to see your article supported with data, footnotes, citations and bases like a proper law review article, scientific treatise or the like. I am fully willing to be convinced, but not by the pablum set forth to date. Although it may not be your personal duty to undertake this task, it is indeed the duty of those willing to effectively overwrite the Constitution, Bill of Rights and commonly understood rights to privacy, to give this explanation to those citizens, like me, that they wish to affect.
Should you be willing to assume this challenge, please feel free to be as detailed in both facts and law as you possibly can be. I also have multiple degrees, including a law degree and have a fair amount of experience in surveillance, constitutional, criminal and civil rights law from my years as a trial attorney. I thank you for your attention and await your reply, if any.
Sincerely,
RonD @ 212
Interesting. Bush ain’t leavin’ without an oil guarantee though. It is all about power and oil.
LS @ 207
see oldspook-comments-late night-two nights ago.
‘we’ve been stupid’
james @ 203
Actually, I think Boggs was the House majority leader.
Peterr @ 206
Except according to the National Weather Service the area where Paul’s plane went down was not experiencing any inclement weather contrary to MSM reports. There is also the matter of how FBI agents from the Chicago office found their way to the inaccesible crash sight almost simultaneous with the event itself.
Then there’s the Chicago plane crash that killed off Mrs. E. Howard Hunt as she was carrying hush money to the boys. Also on that plane were executives of a company that was suing El Paso Energy who had prevailed at a meeting earlier that day which would have cost the energy company quite a lot of money.
Marion in Savannah @ 33
Oh my Miss Marion you shore have a gift for good old fashioned southern wordsmithin’. Bravo!
bmaz @ 213
The “if any” is a very nice touch. *g*
james @ 191
Where I live, cell phones don’t work even when they’re on. And as far as I know, it’s an RFID chip they want in passports. Those are passive. A lead lined pouch will make them dead even right next to a scanner.
SnarKassandra @ 56
A good word to know-you’ll be seeing it alot, I fear. Sadly accountability only seems to apply to us common folk, not anyone in a position of power.
dakine@216:
Yes he was the Majority Leader.
Democrats have been dying for years in plane crashes.
bmaz@213:
Great letter. I don’t think they’ve got “facts” or “law” to back them up.
LS @ 189
Loo Hoo. @ 224
I was driving to the Outer Banks to check on my house and a friend called me and asked if I had heard about a senator dying in a plane crash.
I knew immediately it was Wellstone.
RonD @ 181
Oh, no!! That does suck.
bmaz — great letter. Let us know if you hear back.
*crickets*
Well, calming down from my spate of paranoia it seems that political death by plane crash is about an equal risk for Dems and reThugs. See
realworld @ 228
The crash on December 8, 1972 that killed Collins is the one that also got Mrs. Hunt and all that money (which, BTW) was not recovered.
Speaking of creepy political deaths.
GOP strategist dead with 2 others.
-GSD
realworld @ 228
Somethin’ ain’t right.
james at 191 says-”Ayup, that’s the plan.
A passport with a chip inserted in it which we’ll all have to carry so they can track us just like they can do now by our cellphones….even when they are off.
Disposable, pre-paid phones folks, let’s start dropping off the radar.”
james, one of my friends said they’re already putting them in the new driver’s licenses…..in ohio……they are a new design……just got mine in february, and the ones issued since then are waaaaaaaay different……got a chip in them, per my friend, he’s up on this kind of stuff…….new technology and science.
and even if you have a pre-paid phone, you have to register it to get it turned on.
GSD @ 230
Let’s see…3 dead GOP guys, guns in the house, Florida….hmm, this could be very interesting
realworld @ 187
For those who may be interested, the NTSB report on the aircraft crash in which Sen. Wellstone died is here. I’m extremely skeptical when it comes to conspiracy theories over these types of incidents. Yes, it was a tragedy and it happened to benefit some people whose politics are not what many of us would regard as desireable, but that in itself is NOT evidence of “assassination”.
I wrote something on the Bobbitt piece. I just looked it up. Bobbitt regurgitates a lot of the previously debunked rationales for the FISA revision, but he fundamentally dodges Bush’s refusal to update FISA for years and then decides to do so just before a Congressional break. Or how he ducks why a fix became a power grab. But what irritated me the most was how he casually wiped out any right to privacy by equating electronic communication with standing on a public street corner. I noted that if there were no right to privacy then Bobbitt could be recorded 24/7 up to and including his bedroom. After all if there are no lines, there are no lines.
I was also pretty critical of the fact that the NYT would run such an op-ed by such a dope. Who’s next? A Grand Dragon of the Ku Kl*x Kl*n on race relations?
Airport Cat @ 234
And TWA Flight 800 exploded because of a fuel tank discrepancy having nothing to do with anything penetrating the fuselage.
I know it sounds like apple and oranges, but I do not trust reports that are issued from the very beast that benefits from the deaths whether it’s the Warren Commission or any other government-funded report.
dmac @ 232
Did your friend say whether or not dropping a hammer on ones DL will might cause chip failure?
scarecrow @ 227
I penned that the second I was done reading Bobbitt’s op-ed late Tuesday night. Been almost 48 hours now an, as you say “crickets”. I don’t think he will respond, but I sent it to both his personal email address and care of columbia Law School where he is faculty, so he will get it.
Airport Cat @ 234
I missed the part where someone said “assassination”.
james-can’t find the link, maybe ls had it? that was about scanners that can read from 3 feet away that read codes from products and other uses. was important, can’t find it in my bookmarks, i’ll look tomorrow, time for sleep……
LS @ 239
The word used to be called bushcheneyinnation but was shortened to ass-ass-in nation and finally just assassination.
Hugh @ 235
Hugh, he is a shill of the highest order; but he is no dope. His CV is very strong, and legal academics I know say is is very bright. That is why I had to respond and why I don’t think he will reply back. This guy knows better and is selling out everything he has spent his academic career on. He cannot support this tripe on legal and logic grounds; it is pure political tripe.
LS @ 239
Funny how with every assassination over the last 45 years the Republicans always seem to benefit in some fashion. JFK, RFK, MLK, Medgar Evers, Cheney, Goodman, Schwerner, Viola Luozo, Malcom X. How many voices on the right have met the same fate?
New thread upstairs.
eureka at 237 says=”Did your friend say whether or not dropping a hammer on ones DL will might cause chip failure?”
i love how your mind works
bmaz,
Hangin in there. Had to read ch 24 of potter to the kids.
I for one would want to talk to the qwest attorney’s on why they resisted the cooption.
My carrier…Yea Claus
Eureka Springs @ 237
They cook easily. Like in a microwave, well before the plastic melts.
Depending on the chip, they can also be reprogrammed. There was a big todo in England on this. A week or two after the Brits signed on to their version of real ID, somebody demonstrated swiping the info off one card and reprogramming a 2nd card to be identical.
I’m a long time techie, and I find this stuff amusing. You see, decentralized technology is inherently subversive. When it used by centralized powers, it is easily subverted (DRM was hacked immediately – it’s only a headache to Windows / Apple users; Linux users have never been bothered for long). What’s really funny is that the Big Guys always think it’s infallible (’cause they think they’re infallible) – then some kid Cassie’s age will live on Coke and chips for a week and poof, the emporer’s clothes disappear.
LS @ 239
Google the Wellstone crash, you’ll find plenty of references to it … nobody said it here, true, but there’s no doubt that some believe it.
With respect to TWA 800, that was not the first instance of an explosive fuel-air mixture in a nearly-empty fuel tank igniting with disastrous results … just the first one to happen to a civilian airliner in flight. As noted, I’m a skeptic when it comes to conspiracies, but that doesn’t mean I think there’s never been one.
dmac @ 240
RFID. Start with wikipedia.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 5
square root of -3
dakine01 @ 19
Okay, let’s do some horse trading. What exactly do Progressives want in trade for telcom immunity?
Let House & Senate pass existing legislation.
Bankruptcy Law redo.
Mortgage industry fixes.
Money for infrastructure.
Higher auto mileage standards.
No Child Left Behind reform.
Net Neutrality.
Redirect Nat’l Guard to NOLA.
Close Gitmo.
Enemy Combatants in Justice sys.
MCAct redo. (restore habeas)
FISA redo. (restore 4th amend.)
What else am I forgetting?
I wanna clarify that while I can no longer listen to Cat Stevens, it is Yusuf Islam that technically sucks.
Coming late to this 250 comment thread…
Has anyone mentioned that something that DID make it into the new FISA leg. is a mechanism to force the non-compliant telcos into compliance?
Its a stretch, but maybe that is what the hospital room bruhaha was about.
Steve-AR @ 17
Our Constitutional democracy has been OPD since the Civil War.
Our best chance to save our democracy is to START OVER, if you know what I mean, and right away, if not sooner.
liberal elite @ 254
The constitution works just fine if it is honored and respected. It does not need to be redone, just paid attention to in an enlightened way instead of the right wingnut fantasy dream way that has marked the last 25 years.