We are still a month away from the Petreaus/Crocker White House report on the progress of the US escalation. But already the “findings” of that report are being written on the minds of the American people through an incessant drumbeat of Administration spin and propaganda, reinforced by the usual
neocon suspects and long-time war hawks like O’Hanlon/Pollack, and complete with White House ad campaign. [h/t MayDaze] As George Bush once said, “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” [h/t and paraphrasing to commenter George]
The “we’re making progress” crowd seems to be dominant in Washington, even though our own Ambassador reports no progress on reconciliation, which was the principal objective of the President’s surge. Worse, the unhyped evidence indicates violence against Iraqis has not declined, while the June-July period of 2007 has been even more deadly for Americans than the same two month period in the past four years. Fourteen more US soldiers were killed this morning in a helicopter crash, while dozens more Iraqis died in other violence.
Yet we must be making progress because the neocon, pro-war experts — the only kind of experts we seem to have — say we are. Never mind those seven courageous non-commissioned officers and infantrymen — courageous because they are expressing a contrary view while still serving in Iraq — who wrote in a Times op ed that the mission has failed and it’s time to get out. Unlike the neocon pundits and Congressional delegations who get the military-shepherded dog and pony shows, these men see a very different picture:
To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched. As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day.
. . .
Given the situation, it is important not to assess security from an American-centered perspective. The ability of, say, American observers to safely walk down the streets of formerly violent towns is not a resounding indicator of security. What matters is the experience of the local citizenry and the future of our counterinsurgency. When we take this view, we see that a vast majority of Iraqis feel increasingly insecure and view us as an occupation force that has failed to produce normalcy after four years and is increasingly unlikely to do so as we continue to arm each warring side.
It is a measure of the media’s laziness and complicity in sustaining the Administration’s propaganda that, as TRex, Greg Sargent, Paul Rieckhoff, and others have noted, this genuine first hand account is not treated seriously and has received almost no media attention except as an excuse for refutation by neocon war proponents.
But despite the growing chorus of Administration shills and pundits and misguided Senate Democrats proclaiming that the “surge” is working in some narrowly defined military sense that ignores the Iraqi perspective, the Administration’s Iraq policy is about to collapse in complete failure. If the al Maliki government falls or is portrayed by our media as helpless, powerless and friendless, nothing that David Petraeus reports to Congress about “progress” will matter that much.
Photo: US Blackhawk helicopter over Baghdad, (Mahmoud Rahouf Mahmoud/Reuters).
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‘allo!
investigations!
dos
hello!
ummm, – ‘allo? (ed note – it’s hard to type an impression of Jon Stewart’s impression of the Queen of England).
Short wingnut mantra – The surge is working. The surge is working. And, if it isn’t it’s the fault of spineless liberals.
We Won! Oh, maybe We Won! But by God, maybe we can win! maybe… .
Hm, isn’t that more like “The surge is working,” *bap* “The surge is working!” *bap bap* “The surge is working DAMMIT” *bap bap bap*
Certainly, MY head hurts…
What’s up with Sen. Levin saying maybe Maliki needs to step down?
This is the paragraph in today’s LA Times editorial:
It’s time to actively strip the so-called war on terror of its religious connotations, not add to them. Because religious wars are not just ugly, they are unwinnable. And despite what Operation Straight Up and its supporters in the Pentagon may think is taking place in Iraq, the Rapture is not a viable exit strategy.
Is that helicopter peeing on the sun?
According to MPR this morning, four US soldiers died in the Blackhawk crash. The other 10 were not soldiers (not that that’s any better).
AZ Matt @ 9
*spew*
You know, as irritating as the LA Times can be…they come up with good ones now and then…
AZ Matt @ 9
Depends on whether or not you’re one of the 144,000…
Yesterday there was some guy on Dan Abrams show following KO spouting that the guys who wrote the Times OP-Ed are going to be punished and it would be up to their commanders and their service record on the severity of the punishment.
Hey ET are you still here? or are you here again?
gbear @ 11
I’m not saying you are wrong but every other news wire has this
peanutbutter @ 12
Kudos to the LA Times. More of this in every news outlet. Take on Bush’s Base of Fundamentalism and hold them all accountable for prophecy as foreign policy.
Until Americans stop thinking we are the center of the universe, and ours is the only perspective that matters, I am afraid we are doomed to more painful, high-speed trips of the head to the wall.
peanutbutter @ 12
I have a photo of a protester in one of the big (ignored) marches in Washington a couple of years ago. His sign reads, “The Rapture is not an exit stragegy.”
It looks like the actors are rehearsing for another kabuki performance, where opposition to the war will be diluted to skepticism among the higher ranks as Bush/Cheney buys another Friedman Unit of death, destruction, and profit.
Or maybe we’re choosing up sides for a genuine throwdown. If so, I like the idea that I’m on the side of the courageous seven, on the side of U.S. enlisted personnel and on the side of Iraqi noncombatants. I like the idea that being pro-peace and anti-war means that I can advocate the end of the U.S. occupation while also advocating multilateral intervention to help the Iraqis settle their internal differences.
Sometimes it’s hard to be right. In this case, it’s easy and plain as the sneer on Cheney’s face. We’re right; they’re wrong. Angels on our side; devils on theirs.
Depends on whether or not you’re one of the 144,000…
Do anchor-babies count?
Exactly!!
In short, the surge is working but not achieving its objective, i.e., we’re confusing motion with progress.
I wrote this at the end of down stairs in response to an excellant post and it is right on topic here
jim oconnor @ 42
you konw what?
this is a GREAT tool the democrats HAD BETTER use WHENEVER they are approached by the media
they need to say;
“this president has SOME NERVE” claiming health care is too expensive, if he brought our armed forces home he would enhance national security, he would secoure our ports, he would rebuild our armed forces and he would have MORE THEN ENOUGH left over to fund infrastructre, health care, clean up the envirnment, make mining safe, FIX THE LEVEES
AND DO WHAT HE WAS ELECTED TO DO, PROVIDE A GOVENRMENT FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE
not a government for corporations and by corporations”
BING
take EVERY PROGRAM they tried to GUT and THROW IT IN HIS FACE
CALL him on his “the market takes care of itself” by getting the FACT publisized,
“THE MARKET DOES NOT TAKE CARE OF ITSLELF. THAT IS CORPORATE BOUGHT PROPAGANDA, the market will NOT fund NECCESSARY projects that ARE REQUIRED by society”
WE HAVE GOT TO EMBARRASS ANY POLITICIAN OR DEBATE THAT CLAIMS THE MARKET TAKES CARE OF ITSELF
it clearly does not
katymine @ 14
Back. I’m up early, preparing materials for a sub next week to teach my big lecture class at UAA. How about you?
raven @ 15
yea, I’ve looked around now and noticed that no one else is saying what I heard on NPR. I guess we’ll just have to see what updated reports say.
Hillary says it’s working, too!
from a speech at the VFW in Kansas, via Huffpo.
same as the old boss.
katymine @ 14
What are they going to do to them? Give them a choice of the stockade in Leavenworth or send them to Iraq? Which of those two choices are surviveable with the least amount of damage to their health?
guantanamo show on diane rehm on pbs today=
undersecretary of defense/in charge of detainee affairs-large group of them, can’t let them go, won’t be on trial……..
threat assessments, etc.
gbear @ 11
Interesting. This is from the WaPo article I link to:
Possibly not regular Army, but special ops people. But regardless, all dead.
There is no progress in Iraq. There never will be any progress in Iraq. That is because there is no such thing as Iraq. It is a legal fiction.
Hillary to Veterans of Foreign Wars on Monday:
“The surge is working.
We need to bring our troops home.”
Now what kind of double-talk bullsh*t is that?
Ed*ard Teller @ 23
Popped in to see what is going on before I go for my 2 mile walk AND before it hits 111 ;)
Then on to writing more training docs :P
HRC is an outrage.
sporkovat @ 25
Biodun @ 30
There’s been a lot of talk about that; according to some, the actual quote did not mention the “surge,” and she apparently said there was progress in some areas, but that didn’t mean we should stay, or something like that. We need the actual quote.
From Think Progress
http://thinkprogress.org/
so we have weak Dems and the Repugs launch a new strategy Id say their war is safe.
OKK – saw your comment last night about walking through fire for HRC in the past, and I was once there as well.
I feel so… manipulated.
Scarecrow @ 34
from what I’ve read she said “the change in tactics” is working
that means what little the democrats have forced the president to do has worked and we need to force him to follow OUR strategy becuase he and cheney are military morons
I think she’d go along with that translation, crude though it may seem
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the
liestruth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.” – George W. BushN=1 @ 10
It has a limited service ceiling, especially in hot climates, so probably not. They might be dumping fuel, but it is most likely the exhaust plume, being driven downward by the rotor wash as the craft enters the pre-landing hover envelope.
Why are Senate Dems supporting the Surge is the “Fix” in or what? Bridges fail because no new taxes means no bridge maintence. Global Warming isn’t real weather patterns are not changing the Midwest is not flooding. Billions to save WallStreet banks but not a penny for National Heathcare.
Bush is weak on so many issues so why are the Democrats supporting the Surge?
karnak12 @ 26
They could pull a Tillman on them. What they did was of the caliber to endanger their lives.
Biodun @ 30
What did you think she’d say to the VF fucking W?
1
2
3
4 we don’t want your fucking war.
Scarecrow @ 34
Here it is. Even given the provenance of the quote, I don’t see how this could be taken out of context.
“It’s working. We’re just years too late in our tactics,” she said, referring to the beefed-up U.S. troop presence battling insurgents in Iraq, including war-torn Anbar province. “We can’t be fighting the last war. We have to keep preparing to fight the new war. We have to win. “I think the best way of honoring their service is bringing them home,” she told the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Kansas City.”
Forget her morality in helping start the war in the first place — can anyone here see the political wisdom in this? To us it says she approves of the surge, to them it says, “surrender”.
“Had Enough”? Of Hillary Clinton.
****UPDATE**** We posted what Clinton said in this morning’s First Thoughts, but here it is again for context: “We’ve begun to change tactics in Iraq and in some areas, particularly in Al Anbar province, it’s working. We’re just years too late changing our tactics. We can’t ever let that again. We can’t be fighting the last war, we have to be preparing to fight a new war.”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/default.aspx
scarecrow @34
I got the quote here: http://www.nypost.com/seven/08…..ate__h.htm
perris –
that means what little the democrats have forced the president to do has worked and we need to force him to follow OUR strategy becuase he and cheney are military morons
I think she’d go along with that translation, crude though it may seem
I wish I could figure out what “our strategy” is, because I can’t figure it out. The idea that “we” actually have one is encouraging.
All this war is just killing our planet.
Scarecrow @ 28
Are the dead Americans? Do we have any numbers of American non U.S military deaths?
Scarecrow @ 47
good point…we don’t have a strategy either…well we sort of do, that would be “redeploy”…that is much better strategy then the bush cheney strategy
however, it is too subtle and I must therfore reconsider
*hides head under blanket to regroup*
*** Coming Soon To A TV Screen Near You: Also, don’t miss the news that a conservative group — whose spokesman is former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer — is going up today with a $15 million advertising campaign arguing that the troop surge is working. Those ads will compete against ones that antiwar groups (like Americans Against Escalation in Iraq and Americans United for Change) are/will be airing. The battle to define Petraeus’ September report is already beginning.
things come undone @ 41
Because they get to have a meal at the White House occasionally. They are spineless.
Since the first week in July there have been 5 helicopter crashes in Iraq. I think at least 2 of these were shot down, and the others may have been mechanical failure. Earlier this year there were 6 helicopter crashes in a similarly short period of time, which prompted a review of helicopter tactics and maintenance procedures.
My understanding is that helicopter maintenance is a demanding enough chore even in the non-desert U.S., with several hours of maintenance required for each hour of flight. It must be a horrendously difficult job in the blowing sands of Iraq. So these “mechanical failures” are not unlucky accidents, but are inevitable under the conditions of helicopter flight in Iraq.
Yesterday I erred in my takedown of the meme that “the surge is working” by saying that the shining example, Al Anbar, was not part of the surge. It is, in fact, part of the surge…HOWEVER, Al Anbar’s “success” has absolutely nothing to do with the surge and everything to do with the actions of a local Sheik BEFORE the surge, and a few intelligent US officers who saw reality for what it is. For a nice, brief explanation of the “miracle of Al Anbar” go here. Sadly, near the bottom is a nifty powerpoint (in PDF format) created by a local Army officer, written in easy English with easy pictures so that even the Pentagon AND Bush could understand it – but its creator is no longer alive. He is a victim of the “success” of the surge.
brendan @ 44
The Clinton folks claimed this quote is out of context, starting in the middle of a paragraph in which she doesn’t refer to the “surge” per se — so you only assume “It’s working” refers to the surge. Find the full quote and we can sort this out.
But Putin and China are cool?
CLINTON: In response to Obama’s comments that the US should move toward normalizing relations with Cuba — if the country takes steps towards democracy — Clinton responds in a statement: “Until it is clear what type of policies might come with a new government, we cannot talk about changes in the U.S. policies toward Cuba,” reports the AP’s Hispanic Affairs reporter Laura Wides-Munoz.
Scarecrow @ 34:
From the NYTimes on Tuesday:
You’re right. She didn’t say surge. But she said bring them home. The sentiment of my comment stands.
This story yesterday created a surge of anger between my eyeballs:
“All Things Considered, August 21, 2007 · U.S. Rep. Brian Baird (D-WA) returned last week from a second trip to Iraq. He voted against authorizing the invasion of Iraq in 2002, and in May, he voted in favor of Democratic legislation that would have required President Bush to bring U.S. troops home next year.
But after his recent visit, Baird has changed his mind. He now says he believes U.S. troops must stay in Iraq longer, and that a precipitous withdrawal could have catastrophic results for Iraq and the region.
“I believe we have a moral responsibility to help the Iraqi people, and we have a strategic interest in making sure this mission succeeds, and we are finally, at long last, seeing some positive results,” Baird tells Melissa Block, citing improved security in al-Anbar province as an example.”
The context, of course, was the upcoming Petraeus testimony and progress, progress, progress. The clear implication was “see, even the naysayers are now convinced that the surge is working and that we should extend it to April, or forever. Whatever.
No dissenting view was presented whatsoever. I guess if Melissa Block doesn’t actually SAY she’s “fair and balanced,” she doesn’t have to BE “fair and balanced.”
On the other hand, is there anyone here who actually thought that we’d get to September and the Administration would say, “Hmm, the Surge doesn’t seem to be working.”
raven @ 43
Takes me back many years:
Now come on, all of you big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again,
Got himself in a terrible jam,
Way down yonder in Vietnam….
Biggest story in Alaska today bound to be Exxon’s decision to take the punitive damage judgement they’ve been fighting for 13 years to the U.S. Supreme Court:
This is the energy giant’s final attempt to overturn the judgment, which Exxon has been battling for more than a decade.
In May, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco denied Exxon’s request for another hearing in the long-running civil case. The company has been appealing since 1994, when an Anchorage jury awarded $5 billion in punitive damages to the class-action plaintiffs, who claim economic harm from the spill of nearly 11 million gallons of crude oil in Prince William Sound.
Lawyers for the plaintiffs have said that roughly 20 percent of their clients have died during the lawsuit. The living plaintiffs include about 33,000 commercial fishermen, cannery workers, landowners, Natives, local governments and businesses.
Earlier this morning, I commented on the case locally:
At the time of the Exxon Valdez spill, another company in Valdez – Crowley Maritime – had a policy in place worldwide for dealing with personnel like Joseph Hazelwood. Exxon had earlier – up to 1988, I believe, had a similar “Emloyee Assistance Program,” but had trimmed it down to save money.
In the earlier version of the Exxon program, like the one Crowley had in effect at the time of the spill, Joe Hazelwood could be checked upon by a spec*al*st in drug and alcohol problems at any port of call anywhere in the world at any time, to “see how the employee was doing.” After Exxon reduced their program, Hazelwood knew he would never be visited by such a specialist in Valdez.
Exxon, not Joseph Hazelwood, chose to turn what had been a highly effective program into a sham. The result was as much their choice as it was anybody’s.
I have over a dozen friends who were parties to this suit and who have passed away. Three took their own lives. And I live in the Mat-Su Valley, not Cordova or Valdez. Of many surviving friends who are party to this suit – I am not – all who had participated in the PWS herring fishery will see less from this “punitive” settlement than they would have made through their honest toils had the spill not devastated the herring fishery.
Sadly, the Supreme Court will probably take this case, with the newest additions showing once again why they were appointed – because of their extremely corporate-friendly views. I predict Justice Alito will write the 5-4 decision, which will reduce or eliminate the judgement.
So sad…
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
Oklahoma kiddo @ 56
To win Florida, you must pander to the Cuban exile community.
On this morning’s news, there was a political commercial. I didn’t catch who was sponsoring the commercial. It was a woman sitting and facing the camera. The commercial went on to basically say why should we leave Iraq when the surge is working and things are getting better??
I just about threw my hairbrush at the tv!!
George @ 39
Ah, thanks, I”ll use that.
things come undone @ 41
because of the transcripts from the warrantless wiretaps.
Biodun @ 57
Thanks. That’s more like what I saw.
Badwater @ 61
Scarecrow at 55 “Find the full quote and we can sort this out.”
The excerpt cited came after Hillary said the following:
“There is a vigorous debate in our own nation, and probably among many of you, about the right way forward in Iraq. I know we may disagree about whether there is or isn’t a military solution to this war.
Having been there, having studied it and having seen the heroism and the accomplishments of our troops, I do not believe that we alone can impose a military solution. And I do not think the Iraqis are ready to do what they have to do for themselves yet.
Therefore, I think it is unacceptable for our troops to be caught in the crossfire of a sectarian civil war while the Iraqi government is on vacation. I think it is time the Iraqi government took responsibility for themselves and their country, because the American people and our American military cannot want freedom and stability for the Iraqis more than they want it for themselves.
As we move forward in these next months awaiting a report from General Petraeus, we have some very hard decisions to make. I’m not sure there are any good options. But one decision I know we will make is to continue to honor the service of our own American troops and to make sure that they are given the respect that they so richly have earned.
Some of us will disagree. I think the best way of honoring their service is by beginning to bring them home and making sure that when they come home that we have everything ready for them.” […]
I’m not a fan of Hillary, per see, but I do like the idea of discussing the quote in its broader context.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 66
To win in Florida, you have to pander to the So. Fla. politicians.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 66
Sure if your running as a Republican (like Hilary). We Democrats pander to Florida’s retirement community by supporting Social Security.
Scarecrow @ 55
Even the accurate quote supplied by Biodun at @57 was bad (my negative reaction came yesterday when I read about it in TPM, which certainly didn’t misrepresent the quote this way). It’s still a limited endorsement of the war, and a politically incompetent one, to talk approvingly of “changing our tactics”. The occupation is not a la carte; we don’t get to fight in Anbar and refrain from a second helping of Baghdad.
That said, I was pretty stupid for saying “I don’t see how this could be taken out of context…”. Fool me once…won’t get fooled again!
I voted for Bill Clinton twice. But I think it safe to say I am sick and tired of Mr. and Mrs. Clinton. I gotta go back to work.
Someone have the Ari Fleischer link?
Anyone know anything about the guy who wrote the NYT op ed today to the effect that spying is fine, it is done in schools, and yes Dems should pay attention to what people back home might say about being soft on security (?). His name is Philip Bobbitt. He’s an attorney now at Columbia, and worked for the White House on security in 98-99 I think.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 68
Appearantly, to win in Florida, you have to pander to the Supreme Court.
christine @ 62
Apparently the ads mentioned here are already coming to a station near you.
I am offended that my congressman uses his government web site for headlines like this:
Democrats’ Energy Bill: Consumers Are the Villains
Democrats Cut Medicare
See weldon.house.gov
Am I wrong to be offended??
To win Florida you need Katherine Harris “harpie” makeup.
MayDaze @ 59
In its “flashback to the summer of love” series msnbc did a little profile of Country Joe McDonald.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18803490/
Unless I’m misremembering here’s another quote from another of his songs:
“…Gonna send you back to Texas back to work on your ranch!”.
OC Democrat at 67 — thanks for that link.
Biodun @ 30
That’s two opposite points. Where’s the third to be her famous “triangulation”?
we all agree this — the so-called petraeus report (to be written by bushites) — was a rigged deal from the start.
it’s only there to give the administration what it wants, and as someone posted in the last couple of days, even if it were to suggest that things aren’t proceeding swimmingly, the admin can STILL glean a rationale for pursuing it further.
so the question is how to arm those folks who oppose the eternal deployment in a way that will see results, i.e., finally moving toward withdrawal. i think this string is coming up with some good ideas — especially the notion that by withdrawing, we free up money that can help rebuild not only america, but iraq, the right way.
then the push comes to make these ideas well-knwon, at least as well-known as those now circulating in advance of the report’s release on how peachy everything is over in baghdad.
we need, in short, a surge of our own.
Scarecrow @ 72
Here – from the TPMMuckraker link in my last comment.
MayDaze @ 75
I sure would like to know who, in addition to Ari Fleischer is sponsoring that ad. Anyone know?
I never thought I’d be saying this but I think it is time for a third party. The Dems have to understand they can not take the
left wingmain body of the party for granted. If they want our support they should earn it. I’ll never forgive Nader but this is a different game.as the NYT summarized their positions earlier this month.
Hillary and Obama saying they would ‘bring the troops home’ is poll driven balderdash.
Gee, I wonder if Christy might have a word or two to say about this?
“The “Presidential Advance Manual,” dated October 2002 with the stamp “Sensitive — Do Not Copy,” was released under subpoena to the American Civil Liberties Union as part of a lawsuit filed on behalf of two people arrested for refusing to cover their anti-Bush T-shirts at a Fourth of July speech at the West Virginia State Capitol in 2004. The techniques described have become familiar over the 6 1/2 years of Bush’s presidency, but the manual makes it clear how organized the anti-protest policy really is.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
MayDaze @ 82
Thanks.
Watch the video of part of Hillary’s speech at Veterans of Foreign Wars on Monday here.
Scarecrow, OC Democrat:
Thanks for the full text: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..8/21/61272
Here is another little nugget to take issue with:
“I propose increasing the size of our Army by 80,000 soldiers”
And here is another instance of political ineptitude (charitably assuming she really wants to “bring them home”):
“As we move forward in these next months awaiting a report from General Petraeus…”
I think we can forget about General Petraeus’s report being the end of the war Hilary and the Center Democrats support for the Surge tells me supporting the war until Bush leaves office is a done deal.
Some Democrat strategy expert apparently has decided that keeping the war going will help more Democrats win. So what if more Americans have to die.
Somewhere on Hilary’s campaign contrbutions is listed 30 pieces of silver.
Scarecrow @ 55
You know, it doesn’t matter. If she is making statements where you have to read the whole page to know what she really meant she is being way to careless with something way too important. What the fuck is making progress? Progress towards what? She doesn’t ever say what the goal is or what the plan to get there is so any assessment of progress is meaningless and subject only to providing cover for weak opposition to continuing the war.
Scarecrow @ 87
Thanks. I’ve added a link.
Chimp live on MSNBC – expected to make comparison between Iraq and Vietnam.
The cold unflinching stare of absolute failure looks George bush in the face every morning yet the surge is working.
Right.
I’m starting to think Edwards and Obama should sit down at a summit and rock-paper-scissors the ranking and present themselves as the ticket for the Dems in -08.
Edwards/Obama -08. Catapult that!
Those who broach the terms (I’d call them anti-concepts in the context) “working,” “succeeding” and so forth, re the surge, need to check their premises.
“Working” — “succeeding” — by what standard? Since those terms have never been defined, and since rational goals are understandably absent because they’re impossible under the circumstances, there can be no related assessment or judgment.
And the spin:
Scarecrow @ 92
Take a look at my proposal on my blog. It looks like they’ve beaten us to the punch. We need to get a progress ad fund going. The best source for quick money would be to get all the presidential candidates to chip in 10% of their budgets. The details would be hard to work out but if they don’t get the progressive message out now they are probably lost in Nov 2008 no matter who wins the primary. (I still say this despite my earlier comment about needing a 3′rd party.)
chimp – the suiciders plan is to make amurikans tired and give up the fight.
-now making comparison between Japanese in WW2 and evildoers in irak.
-shorter chimp: if the japanese can be transformed into amurikas ally, if south korea can too, that means irak will as well. “once they get a small taste of liberty, they wont stop until they are free”
We must fight the communists over there…wait, J.Edgar Hoover said they were over here too….
Shit….
-GSD
Prairie Sunshine @ 95
BINGO! I’ve always talked here about this ticket.
chimp – terrist seek to spread political agenda of their own. they hate murikans b/c we stand in their way. this enemy is dangerous, determined and will be defeated blah blah blah.
terrists seek to crush all freedom, tolerance and dissent
I’ve added a link in the first para to the ad campaign from the WaPo article on the Dems changing their message.
Meanwhile, our fight in Iraq is being compared to our fight against the imperialist Japanese, the Chinese and North Korean. So far, our President has only offended about 2 billion people this morning. It’s a start.
all terra-terra-terra alla time
Biodun @ 88
Watch the video of part of Hillary’s speech at Veterans of Foreign Wars on Monday here.
“We have to be preparing to fight the *new* war”.
*What* fucking new war? Why do Democrats treat the word “peace” like it’s four-letter word?
Mother. F**k. To quote Jerry Seinfeld out of context – “How come nobody *writes* anything anymore”?
Oh shit, that commercial with the mom saying to not give up in Iraq was just on. “We’ve already had one 9-11, we don’t need another”. She linda looks and sounds like Cindy Sheehan, btw. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.
Biodun @ 97
She is playing both sides: voters on the one hand, and her money constituency on the other. It’s inevitably going to come out ugly and self-contradictory.
old gold @ 29
Hell, that’s true of any country, to a greater or lesser extent, even the US. Though I’ll grant you that there’s less reality behind the legal fiction of Iraq than that of the US.
Chimp trotting out racism as a defense…..
What a knave, this moron doesn’t know what the fu*k he’s talking about.
-GSD
Comparing Japanese in World War II and Iraqi civil war?
Moron.
OT..but an interesting piece by emptywheel that explains a lot about threatened vetoes of social legislation…ie child health care:
Despite the potential for conflicts of interest, Gillespie won’t be forced in his new role to recuse himself from all matters related to the companies he has lobbied for, said Ken Gross, a Washington-based attorney and former associate general counsel with the Federal Election Commission.
Instead, Gillespie will have to decide on a case-by-case basis if his activities could violate federal ethics standards.
So, when Bush pushes back S-CHIP eligibility to prevent S-CHIP from becoming a cornerstone to a universal, government-provided health care program, I think it relevant to consider that, until recently, Bush’s counselor was representing the interests of the Coalition to Advance Healthcare Reform–a corporate group pushing privately-funded healthcare. And as Bush prepares to veto a bill reforming the corrupt student loan process, I think it relevant to consider that Gillespie was also, until very recently, representing Nelnet, one of the student loan companies most deeply mired in the scandal. And as Bush commands Congress to enact a bill giving telecommunications companies immunity for their past illegal actions associated with the warrantless wiretapping program, you might want to remember that until recently, Gillespie was representing the interests of AT&T, Verizon, and the US Telecom Association.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c…..espie.html
They must have been busy all night building this army of straw men that Commander McShitheel has been standing up for the past ten minutes.
-GSD
I’d be less upset about the right portraying Clinton as a harpy if she weren’t trying to be a Valkyrie all the time.
Shallow listeners/thinkers will gobble up Bush with a spoon….
Biodun @ 109
I think what he’s doing is telling the planet that when the US liberates you, it’s progress. Who wants to be next?
shorter chimp: There were a lot of doubters of our involvement in wars in far east, just as there are a lot of doubters in GWOT now. Since far east wars turned out so well, that means we will win GWOT. get it?
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/
diane rehm is doing a show about sacco and vanzetti
Biodun @ 101
That’s the dream ticket, alright!
Now he’s explaining how we had to overcome religious intolerance in other cultures to make them more civilized.
This is a vicious speech, because it is a justification for a military empire.
jayt @ 105
“We have to be preparing to fight the *new* war”.
*What* fucking new war? Why do Democrats treat the word “peace” like it’s four-letter word?
.
She’s gotta prove She’s Tough Enough.
I watched the first episode of CNN’s “God’s Warriors” last night. We are a crazed, morally primitive species hell-bent on destroying ourselves.
Probably gonna happen.
Scarecrow @ 103
Yep. He’s all over the globe. His idea of world travel. When running in 2000 for an election he didn’t win, Bush called East Timorese “East Timorians.” Also reminds me of that teevee commercial: “You don’t know where China is, do you?”
Among the firepups, who has the best excuse for NOT being in the halls of congress when the Petraeus/Bush/Crocker report is delivered?
It is funny listening to this strident fool talking about this shit like he knows about it.
-GSD
If MSNBC has it on the website, Ron Paul has the answer to this speech:
occupation breeds terrorism
Chimpy McTruman!
Georgie Churchill!
Abraham Bush!
-GSD
Chimp –
I am an idiot.Japan has transformed from enemy to ally.Blah blah blah – talking about Korean war. in korean and iraq wars, critics agreed war was futile.
GSD @ 124
Forrest Bush
chimp- “Korean peninschula”
The Ko-rean peninSHula.
-GSD
This guy sounds desperate. The crowd sounds tepid.
-GSD
Does the rest of the world know that our news media is nothing but a propaganda machine? Do they laugh at us like we used to laugh at Pravda?
Yer crackin me up GSD, I like your live blog take on Chimpy.
chimp – amurika can count on the south koreans to be our ally in GWOT (until N Korea nukes them).
now on to Vietnam…
Biodun @ 101
Bingo Bingo
Semi-OT: The implications of this YouTube are mind-boggling. “Truth” is about to take another major hit. The video is a demo of new software making it easy to alter photos in any way imaginable. No longer is seeing believing.
chimp – “vietnam, cambodia, or La-lose”
Amurka wasn’t dangerous to the Veetnamese….we were gonna liberate all the ones we didn’t kill.
-GSD
Brendan @ 105
the general public can smell that sort of triangulating and calculating – it is practically a part of the Clinton ‘brand.’
Which is why now is the time for pragmatic (D)’s who don’t want to lose the great prize of 08, should work to make sure she is not nominated.
Saudi Arabia will become Cambodia…..no wait, Syria….Iran!
-GSD
GSD @ 122
O.K., Right to the point, Amen, bleck(word source, Mad Comics) I think we all have had enough.
reluctantly switched to MSNBC.
Nothing new – this motherfucker is insane.
chimp – 9/11- 9/11- 9/11
Gregor @ 130
twolf1 @ 115
It’s about “resolve”, or what another lectern-pounding asshole would have called “Der Will”.
brendan @ 89
Goddamnit. What we NEED to do is DECREASE the size of the military. There is NO defensible reason that the US military spending needs to be (or should be) higher than ALL the military spending by ALL other countries combined! There is NO valid reason to even FURTHER militarize the country. WWII is over. The Cold War is long over. It is time, FINALLY, for a goddamned peace dividend!
GUT the military. Pull out of the ME entirely. It isn’t our land, it isn’t our oil, it isn’t our place to lord over them. I am sick of this shit that states that we must have an imperial-sized military just because.
It is important that we give grave amounts of emphasis to Bin Laden’s spin.
-GSD
chimp – the reason the GWOT is going so poorly is because we withdrew from Vietnam.
On Bush: He is really scrapping the bottom of the war mongering barrel – Japan, Vietnam, domino theory. Alas, not too many younger Americans are gonna remember this. It will be like Japan, huh?, Lost in Translation, I don’t get it. And the few who do, will remember, yah, we used a nuclear bomb against them, that wasn’t very good.
you guys are crackin’ me up
sporkovat @ 137
I don’t agree. I think she’s a shoo-in, and I’ll be voting for her, too, in the general election as the lesser evil. As I said, she doesn’t have a choice but to triangulate: she needs votes, but she represents continued occupation.
Chimpy musta taken a quick cruise around the world this morn, with a layover in southeast Asia. Oh, wait. He hasn’t been to South America yet. And to Africa.
Christy has a new thread ready — in a minute. Don’t be late.
Karl Rove must be howling.
chimp – if we abandon the iraqi people, the terrists would be emboldened – as we saw on 911, they will bring it to our streets. we must defeat em over seas so we dont face them in the USA. they will follow us home… yadda yadda yadda
twolf1 @ 145
WHAT????
Weren’t these assholes getting apoplectic a few years ago whenever someone would compare Iraq to Vietnam?
Now Iraq is Vietnam.
-GSD
You can’t really blame them for sticking with a winning theme – it’s been working for them since before we won the election in 2000.
Scarecrow @ 150
Thanks…*g* Where’s Richmond?
chimp – in iraq, our moral obligations and strategic objectives are one. We will force the Christian god on them.
Any reaction shots from the audience? Are they buyin’ this scheiss?
Everything will be OK once them Ayrabs and Joos realize that Jaysus is the great liberator!
Jalepeno!
-GSD
CJ @ 155
I don’t agree. It lost them Congress in 2006, and it’s important to remember that the public doesn’t believe Bush any more. Dems need to listen to the voters, and not the WH ads and Bush speeches.
Snark here.
Probably you need a bird’s eye view to see the success in Iraq. Soldiers on the ground, what do they know?
I bet the astronauts have come home with the real scoop. From up there in space, they could look down and see success!
A peaceful earth – that’s all you see from space.
Richmond @ 146
We WON the WAR and produced an ally…not good? I’d say that’s GREAT!
shorter chimp – the advances that other countries have made since we bombed the hell out of them should give us hope that bombing the hell of of iraq will bring them freeedums and ponies.
Is the guy behind junior asleep with his eyes open…lol.
chimp re US troops: day after day, hour after hour, they keep the pressure on the people that would do our citizens harm (see, they’d follow us home).
twolf1 @ 162
The Murkin Peeple Gotta Unnerschand, we’ll stay on th’ hunt fer them Terrists no matter Whut.
When i hear W talk about VN I immediately think Alabama Air National Guard and five deferment Dick. And the DRAFT.
Biodun @ 156
Ready, set, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh…
We are screwed. If the Democratic leadership do not get a real hearing and call the Admin flacks out on this crap, our troops are going to suffer the greatest disaster since Bataan. Long march and all.
We must embrace the tools of democracy like like late night arrests, waterboarding, sodomy, sexual humiliation, no legal recourse, and endless belligerence.
-GSD
Chimpy boasting about how many Iraqi’s we’ve killed.
Shifting…shifting...shifting…new thread!
chimp gets standing O after saying he won’t quit war and give troops what they need (i assume that excludes body armor and IED resistant vehicles).
Fresh thread up and running…
chimp – the questions is this: will amurikans resist the lure of retreat? or will they stay the course and realize it’s hard work.
gsd at 159 hilariously says-”Everything will be OK once them Ayrabs and Joos realize that Jaysus is the great liberator!
Jalepeno!”
salute! (sending you a great big hee-haw saaaaa-lute!)
one of your best-jalapeno……..rofl
jalapeno-new greeting…..permission to use?
Dmac,
Share it, live it, use it.
-GSD
It is not just the propoganda from the Bush administration. The Democrats (though not all of them) suck big time too on the Iraq war.
“Dmac,
Share it, live it, use it.
-GSD”
JALAPENO! (thanks)
Chimpys speech was THE WORST piece of crap war-mongering diatribe, I have ever heard. It sounded like Darth Cheney had a lot to do with it too. I am appalled, UNBELIEVABLE it is really shocking, that in this day and age a speech like that is given in ANY democratic country!
brendan @ 89
Why do you take issue with that?
Set aside for a moment the moral critique of the Iraq misadventure (a critique with which I wholeheartedly agree, FWIW).
The simple fact is that we could never have mounted a successful counter-insurgency campaign in Iraq, because we didn’t have enough soldiers available to do it the way that is known (from the British experience in what is now Malaysia in the 1950s) to work.
Do you disagree with the notion that if we’re going to undertake a military mission, we should have the resources necessary to succeed?
Or is your opposition to increasing the size of the military a proxy for some other position on some other issue, that you’re unilling to clearly acknowledge and discuss?
good grief– I am stunned but not suprised and am probably late to the party as usual… it is Boosh’s Crusade…
this is a must read, imho.
http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..4900.story
Gregor @ 130
well, actually yes.
OK, I’ll say it again. If the Iraqi’s want us out, all they have to do is sign the ‘Oil Sharing Agreement’. That is, they have to agree to share 100% of the oil revenue with Big Oil. Once Big Oil gets what it wants, we’re outta there. Except for a ‘modest’ force of 50,000 to 60,000 to protect Big Oil and ensure that the Carlyle Group gets their cut.
Becca @ 167
The military service of George W. Bush was an issue in the 2000 presidential campaign and again in the 2004 presidential campaign. The controversy centers on the questions of how George W. Bush, now the President of the United States, came to be a member of the Texas Air National Guard, why he lost his flight status, and whether he fulfilled the requirements of his military service contract during the Vietnam War.
wigwam @ 21
“We”, kemosabe? Maybe Hillary, but nobody else on the Dem side is confused. We can’t win a war where we have no enemy to combat and defeat. They have yet to show they are focused on Al Qaeda members in Iraq, so they’re just hangin’ around, gettin’ shot up, rearming the insurgents, f’in up — as Dubya has done his whole f’in life.
brendan @ 44
She should tell the truth. If she can’t do it on the campaign ‘trail’, then how would she ever do it in the White House.
It can’t be ’surrender’, there’s nobody to surrender to.
The people have little if any impact on the course of events in the U.S.. The traditional corporate media determines what and how things will be reported. It has gone from truly tragic to nothing more than a farce.
Richmond @ 73
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Bobbitt
I don’t think his students at the University of Texas School of Law would think that the Universities spying on them would be agreeable…nor do I know what he is talking about. Does UT look at it’s students sex-lives, spy on campus organizations, keep track of student financial records (involuntarily…when those students aren’t on financial need scholarship)? Perhaps Mr. Bobbitt has a methodology for spying on what his Law students do outside his classroom, and punishes them accordingly?
Maybe many of his students think that they know what happened to John Wayne Bobbitt’s lost member…it serves on their faculty!