I really wasn’t going to expend any energy on Jules Crittenden’s attack on my post about fatherhood and masculinity, because from the outset it was so fundamentally silly that it hardly seemed worth devoting any effort to reading carefully, let alone responding to.
But then TRex, in his response, pointed out something I’d overlooked in Crittenden’s post, to wit:
Look, staying home with the kids is fine, if that’s what you want to do. Nothing wrong with it. If your wife can take six months off every two years to squeeze another one out and breastfeed it, then fine. But for God’s sake stop whining about your manliness and use it. I have bad news for you. The people doing all the breeding around the world aren’t interested in consciousness-expanding gender neutrality and growing as New Age androgenoids or reducing their carbon footprints or trying to understand you in order to respect your differences or any of that. They are interested in your stuff, however, and sooner or later, they will swamp your kind out of existence. And a lot of them might not even bothering sticking around to be fathers at all while they’re at it.
This, folks, is clear and unadulterated eugenics. I know that Crittenden’s friends at National Review have been trying to revive eugenics as somehow “respectable,” but even John Derbyshire and Ramesh Ponnuru are smart enough to do so without appearing quite so crudely xenophobic. (”They are interested in your stuff”?)
Compare, if you will, Crittenden’s formula above with that proffered by the eugenicist Madison Grant in his 1916 book The Passing of the Great Race (which was a national bestseller at the time):
We Americans must realize that the altruistic ideals which have controlled our social development during the past century, and the maudlin sentimentalism that has made America ‘an asylum for the oppressed,’ are sweeping the nation toward a racial abyss. If the Melting Pot is allowed to boil without control, and we continue to follow our national motto and deliberately blind ourselves to all ‘distinctions of race, creed, or color,’ the type of native American of Colonial descent will become as extinct as the Athenian of the age of Pericles, and the Viking of the days of Rollo.
Then there is Lothrop Stoddard’s conclusion to his 1922 book, The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy, also a bestseller:
“Finally perish!” That is the exact alternative which confronts the white race. For white civilization is to-day conterminous with the white race. The civilizations of the past were local. They were confined to a particular people or group of peoples. If they failed, there were always some unspoiled, well-endowed barbarians to step forward and “carry on.” But today there are no more white barbarians. The earth has grown small, and men are everywhere in close touch. If white civilization goes down, the white race is irretrievably ruined. It will be swamped by the triumphant colored races, who will obliterate the white man by elimination or absorption. What has taken place in Central Asia, once a white and now a brown or yellow land, will take place in Australasia, Europe, and America. Not to-day, nor yet to-morrow; perhaps not for generations; but surely in the end. If the present drift be not changed, we whites are all ultimately doomed. Unless we set our house in order, the doom will sooner or later overtake us all.
If Crittenden is out there reading this somewhere, I’d like him to explain to us the differences between his view of those hordes of people who are not “our kind” awaiting to invade us and that of Grant and Stoddard — men who, as subsequent history made plain, were not only terribly wrong (particularly about the threat posed by Asians and their supposed utter unassimilability) but whose eugenics proved to be a murderously foul worldview, particularly when put into action.
I don’t see how Crittenden’s argument can be seen as anything other than eugenicist. Perhaps he can explain how.
Or perhaps Glenn Reynolds, who gave this post an approving link, can similarly enlighten us.
Related posts:
- Wingnuts React to Obama’s Cairo Speech: He’s Just Like Bush! We’re Doomed!
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Paul Starobin, After America: Narratives for the Next Global Age
- Late Night: Birth, Death, Sex & Race
- Insane Clown Prince of Alien Race of Lizard People Sues Blogger
- Come Saturday Morning: Is This Really What You Want, Wingers?





Spotlight







Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

whoa
me – 2?
Hi raven and juslin, Hello David. Now to read…
Stop the world – I want to get off!
I never look for these messages, and hence I have to admit that they fly right by me, unseen and unrecognized. The only word that comes to mind is dreadful.
oh boy – not this shit again!! the colored hordes are upon us… the supremicist mentality still rages on and on…
juslin @ 5
Is that why cities, such as NY, London, et al are targeted as being “evil”? Because of their rich stew of so many ethnicities and cultures?
1922: “But today there are no more white barbarians.”
Wow, isn’t science wonderful? From nearly extinct, they now comprise nearly 30% of the US population!
this type of thinking is always in the back of wingers minds just waiting to surface – just shows how insecure they are within themselves – damn let it goooooooooo
Race is a non-genetic social construct. Eugenics was based on a profound confusion between traits and genes. Removing individuals from a population because they possess a certain trait does not remove the gene from the population because a large number of individuals in the population may carry it recessively. As a result, the trait cannot be elminated from the population. Eugenics was and is pseudo-science.
That’s where Crittenden drops his bagel and begins to hump the desk-blotter.
That guy’s clearly never been to a NASCAR event.
Actually, I’m not at all clear about what he means by “your stuff”. And the next sentence doesn’t seem to fit: “And a lot of them might not even bothering sticking around to be fathers at all while they’re at it.” Let’s see. If “they” are going to swamp us, but many of them won’t bother being fathers… Oh, we’re to be overrun by swarthy lesbians with parthenogenetic technology?
Hugh:
You’re right; as I’ve written at my blog:
What does he mean, IF?
If the Melting Pot is allowed to boil without control, and we continue to follow our national motto and deliberately blind ourselves to all ‘distinctions of race, creed, or color,’
That train has long since left the station. My mom kicked me out when I was 15 because I had a black friend. My daughters have friends of every flavor, and always have. Makes you wonder in which century some people pretend to live.
Well, that quote is from 1916.
David Neiwert @ 14
I know, I know.
Just joshin’.
I am opposed to killing or sterilizing people for the purpose of eugenics.
Loo Hoo. @ 13
As TRex can attest, we’ve been on a downhill slide since the late Jurassic.
ohh the aryans are getting restless….hmmm lets see who we can scapegoat now….right now the sand people will do for now…. i swear this is sooo sick but of course its couched in ways to be acceptable to the winger crowd
GordonM @ 11
I believe he means they will procreate but not stick around to be parents.
David, what do you think of Robert Putnam, a wanker from Harvard who has supposedly completed a study claiming that multiculturalism makes cities unhappy and antisocial places? Seems a bit weird as a thesis, especially for someone who lives in Vancouver BC. I read about this guy in a local weekly, whose writer suggested that multicultural “unhappiness” had more to do with the melting-pot model of American society than anything else.
GordonM @ 17
But I can still run faster than David Beckham.
native American of Colonial descent
cognitive dissonance, both in 1916 & in 2007
my last word on this post – just live and let live and we’d all be the better for it imho… simple no
Loo Hoo
I feel bad that you were kicked out when you were 15.
I have a 24-year old daughter, a senior at Columbia University.
She gave me such grief when she was a teenager.
We’re great friends now, because we’ve both changed for the better.
What do these foolish people not understand about “We are all the same?”
Color doesn’t matter, place doesn’t matter. Our habits may be different or language but we all need the same things. Perhaps some day humans will all be beige and it then won’t make any difference at all.
TRex @ 21
Actually, with those tiny little forelimbs and no rules against using your tail, you are perfectly adapted to football, er, soccer. Well, football too, as long as you don’t care to be QB.
I’ve never read any Eugenics literature- seems that they viewed human reproduction as best done on the model of cattle breeding- picking the strongest, healthiest, fastest growing- etc- male animal and breeding him to a proven performing cow with big udders and wide hips..
The only thing approaching this that happened with humans for an extended period of time is with slaves-
“…the type of native American of Colonial descent will become as extinct as the Athenian of the age of Pericles, and the Viking of the days of Rollo.”
Adapt-or die. Change is the basis of survival. They will become extinct because the survivors will have evolved, while they did not.
Jonathan, thanks. My mom kicked me out in the middle of my junior year to go live with my dad. I was really upset till I realized I was the NEW GIRL ON CAMPUS! I had myself a time…
trex at 10 says-”That guy’s clearly never been to a NASCAR event.”
omg, i’m reading comments, thinking of how i’m gonna tie in what’s the difference between darker skinned blending than germans, irish, poles, etc…….all blood-blended, what’s the difference, and then i read trex and crack up…..whatever i was going to say……moot……..
i won’t even go to the dropping the bagel and humping the desk blotter…………
i love your wit.
david, as you know from my comments the other night, love your prose, no, love your use of the english language, yeah, that’s it.
{{{{LooHoo}}}}
RonD @ 28
Hence Hardball’s plummeting ratings.
From George Bush-The Unauthorized Biography: pp.48-49
From 21-23 August 1932 the Third International Congress on Eugenics was held in NY at the American Museum of Natural History, supervised by the Int’l. Federation of Eugenics Societies.
“Averell Harriman personally arranged with the Walker/Bush Hamburg-Amerika Line to transport Nazi ideologues fromGermany to NY for this meeting. The most famous among those transported was Dr. Ernst Rudin, psychiatrist at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Genealogy and Demography in Berlin, where the Rockefeller family paid for Dr. Rudin to occupy an entire floor with his eugenics “research.”
In every slimy, racist, sinful thing in Ameirca’s past and present, from 1914 on, there is a Bush family progenitor and the stamp of amorality and corruption.
This guy in the White House might just be the antichrist.
As to that very first part you quoted from Crittenden.
Nothing to do with eugenics. Nothing to do with racism. Just national prudence.
Like the French worrying about being out-bred by the Germans between 1918 and 1939.
Or like Trojans worrying about being out-bred by Greeks. Same idea, really.
Yup. Kids destined from birth to be future soldiers.
Not that the real world offers much choice. Did the Trojans have a choice?
Sure. Surrender and walk voluntarily to their deaths (the men) and into slavery (the women and children). They had that choice.
Not that I mean to say he didn’t say something else, somewhere else, that was advocacy of eugenics. I wouldn’t know.
But this that you quoted was not.
For a funny look at this notion, I strongly recommend that film IDIOCRACY. It never got a wide release, but Mike Judge pokes some serious fun at the notion of breeding intelligence out of the public.
rwcole @ 27
Ah, well according to a speaker I heard from the Jewish Defense League, there was (maybe 10 years ago? I’ll see what I can find) a Walmart operation in the deep south that hired young white women who were always pregnant. Maternity costs were covered.
Although I am opposed to Eugenics- when one views the genetic speciment now occupying the White House- one wonders if the country hasn’t lost it’s way- genetically.
“In America you’ll get food to eat
Won’t have to run through the jungle
And scuff up your feet
You’ll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day
It’s great to be an American
Ain’t no lions or tigers-ain’t no mamba snake
Just the sweet watermelon and the buckwheat cake
Ev’rybody is as happy as a man can be
Climb aboard, little wog-sail away with me
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston bay
In America every man is free
To take care of his home and his family
You’ll be as happy as a monkey in a monkey tree
You’re all gonna be an American
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into Charleston bay”
Careful with that axe, eugenic.
juslin @ 5
Why else are they so horrified by the “Mexican threat” to, I guess, “America’s purity?” Feh. This sort of nonsense is beneath contempt. Well, pretty much like the last 6½ years, come to think of it…
Loo Hoo. @ 29
Good for you.
In many ways the more hurtful when it happens, the stronger it makes you, at least that’s what I’ve found.
I grew up in church houses and foster homes, or with relatives from the time I was 7 until I was 12. My dad was away in the merchant marine and my mom was in and out of state institutions with schizophrenia. I learned to be self-sufficient and I think my abilities to function very well in the most chaotic situations stems from those experiences.
We just need to be sure that it stops with us.
35, I was quite prepared to like IDIOCRACY but after seeing it, I was offended. While it had a few good scenes (the real toilet recliner) all in all it seemed to support rather then ridicule the eugenics myths/philosophy regarding intelligence breeding out. “Office Space” was a winner but I cannot recommend IDIOCRACY…
RonD @ 31
rwcole @ 37
I read somewhere that gramps Bush also was involved in a plot (never carried out) to overthrow President Franklin Roosevelt and replace him. Clearly, the family is not too interested in actual Democracy either. (By the way, didn’t we insist on Iranians voting? Ditto the Palestinians. So if they don’t vote the way we want them too, we just press for destruction. Nice
rwcole @ 27
If I recall correctly, there were certain forays in that direction in Germany in the 30s.
loohoo at 13 says-”
What does he mean, IF?
If the Melting Pot is allowed to boil without control, and we continue to follow our national motto and deliberately blind ourselves to all ‘distinctions of race, creed, or color,’
That train has long since left the station. My mom kicked me out when I was 15 because I had a black friend. My daughters have friends of every flavor, and always have. Makes you wonder in which century some people pretend to live.”
oh ((((loo hoo)))) wish you were in my family, my sister’s first boyfriend was black, 5th grade, they used to talk through the living room window, cuz we had to be in when the streetlights came on…….my parents never tried to influence it…….they said later that it was hard but it would have been wrong…….
we lived in a neighborhood where we were the first people there, then the company that built the houses went bankrupt and turned into lower income housing…….my dad lost thousands of dollars and never said a word, he was an accountant, so that hit home……i didn’t know all of this until i was grown……..the ‘black menace’ was never brought up in my household……..even though they lost money over it.
my mom, when i was in my early twenties, i had a good friend who was black, she said, that she didn’t care if my boyfriend was black, as long as he was educated……and she didn’t mean college, she meant smart……..well, he was just a friend……but mom would have been proud to have him as a son-in-law……..and they travelled in circles where that wasn’t ok………they didn’t care…….
david, considering the melding of the races, how do you feel about your daughter growing up and being with someone who isn’t a european?
Has anyone read “How the Irish became white”?
Noel Ignatiev, How the Irish Became White, (Routledge 1996)
melanin percentage did not always qualify one for whiteness, wingnuts should recall.
Loo Hoo. @ 43
You might find a few Jewish folks in the Spartacist League but I wouldn’t recommend them unless you have plenty of popcorn for the crowd. They tend to put on quite a show…..oh yeah, make sure the chairs are nailed to the floor.
RonD @ 28
Not to mention that there is no such thing as a native American of Colonial descent.
Ask any Aboriginal.
sporkovat @ 47
Right – because the Irish used to be the barbaric alien hordes.
Loo Hoo. @ 43
You guys, what are some other Jewish groups that might speak to the educational community besides the Jewish Defense League?
Some years back, I saw a speaker from the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Riveting.
Oops, I pasted in Randy’s “Rednecks” but I guess it triggered the filter, sorry mod.
So are you saying that the Irish are now NOT barbaric alien hordes?
rwcole @ 53
We ain’t aliens.
I used to drink a bit with an Irishman- and he was definately a barbaric, alien, horde.
Unfortunately he passed away recently.
jonathan at 24 says-”
Loo Hoo
I feel bad that you were kicked out when you were 15.
I have a 24-year old daughter, a senior at Columbia University.
She gave me such grief when she was a teenager.
We’re great friends now, because we’ve both changed for the better.”
my shrink tells me, your family changed because you changed…..i was saying how much my family had changed, for the better and he shot that back at me……….gave me a lot to think about……..
We just need to be sure that it stops with us.
True James. But the toughening up as a kid, I think, makes one more capable in certain ways. For instance, a lot of people are freaked about their mortgages and the stock market right now. I know I can make it unless there is a pandemic or complete breakdown in our society. I have planned accordingly.
James,
Fundies believe that whatever happens is that God determines it.
God is a creation of human thought.
We should not reject our notion of God.
We should reject that humans know what God intends.
rwcole @ 53
That was my meaning – that they perception of “other” changes.
I love Randy Newman.
dmac @ 56
My family got a lot better when I put the bottle down.
Loo Hoo. @ 60
yea but the N word shows up too much in Rednecks. My bad.
Fern- perhaps a hundred drunken and indescribable evenings- both here and in Ireland- but that’s just anecdotal.
If you want to know what God desires- you have to wait and see what happens- whatever happens- that’s what He wants–sometimes he wants some REALLY SHITTY things-
james, what is this “Walker/Bush Hamburg-Amerika Line”
rwcole @ 63
It’s true too that the Scots-Irish in the Maritimes can be a lively lot. I used to know some Newfoundlanders…
I’m confused if whites are better then why are Conservatives so worried about them dying out. Is not better pay for the same job, lower arrest and conviction rates, and all the other perks that go with being white not enough?
Also I don’t believe this whole whites dying out fear mongering story. I think that the fearmongers just don’t count as white the kids of mixed marriages. If those kids were counted even partially what would the true numbers be?
If anything the succes of intergration in America is the real story.
Granted for the conservatives this is a disaster because it means less of an audience for racial fear mongering.
From Clare To Here
By Nanci Griffith
Four Who Shared This Room,
we Were Caught Up In The Crack.
sleeping Late On Sundays,
and We Never Got To Mass.
and It’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
friday Comes Around,
we’re Only Into Fighting.
my Ma Would Like A Letter Home,
but I’m Too Tired For Writing.
and It’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
almost Breaks My Heart,
when I Think Of My Family.
i Told Them I’d Be Coming Home,
with My Pockets Full Of Green.
and It’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
the Only Time I Feel All Right,
is When I’m Into Drinking.
it Can Sort Of Ease The Pain Of It,
and It Levels Out My Thinking.
and It’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
sometimes Hear The Fiddles Play,
maybe It’s Just A Notion.
i Dream I See White Horses Dance,
upon That Other Ocean.
and It’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way,
gets Further By The Day:
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
it’s A Long, Long Way From Clare To Here.
TRex @ 32
I think it’s because you never know what to expect with him. He can sound like a reasonable person one day, and a complete republican schill the next. He has an identity crisis, perhaps. Or maybe it’s just a rating crisis brought on by his self-respect.
Newfoundlanders is it—sounds fuckin DANGEROUS!!
dmac: No, I’m not worried that Fiona might marry someone nonwhite in the least.
Why, are you?
I have to say, I think FDL totally missed it here with the racism claims. Reading through the original crittenden article, there’s not even a hint of racism, implied or otherwise. All I read was a simple argument saying that if you want there to be more people in the world with your ideals, have more kids, along with the claim that the whole “consciousness-expanding gender neutrality and growing as New Age androgenoids” crowd aren’t doing themselves any favors by not having as many kids as they can… nothing wrong with that argument
rwcole @ 70
But they are great dogs!
OT: Jay Rosen gave a nice shoutout to the folks at firedoglake in this diary. He is looking for help crafting a 1,200 word reply letter in response to an LA Times article about the differences between actual reporting & blogging.
And David, as a mom, I would take you over Jule’s type any damn day. My son had a deadbeat dad and shame on Jules. What a difference a man like you could have made in my son’s life!
ed:
Read carefully.
The word “racism” is used nowhere.
We’re talking about eugenics here. Please address that point.
Crittenden must be a Lothrop Stoddard fan, eh? Note the use of the word “swamp”.
But really though, this shouldn’t surprise anyone who knows about the screeds “nice respectable conservative” William F. Buckley wrote while his good friend Westbrook Pegler was still alive. Ever since the 1880s, they’ve been all about the Southern Strategy — they just didn’t start calling it that until Kevin Phillips came along.
Loo Hoo. @ 13
So glad you’re a better parent and that you’re open to your kids having friends of all kinds.
Hoo
I think he’s got both gooper viewers and dem viewers and he tries to keep em all. Pretty tall order in these days when we’re so united an all!
Jules Crittenden? What kind of bowtie & knickers sissy name is that? Does his mommy know he’s writing such naughty things? Perhaps his understanding of the world is limited because his mommy won’t let him cross the street to play with the other children.
But seriously… Reviving the worst and ugliest side of American culture from a century ago is apparently the goal of modern conservatism. These are the ?guys? who give us white guys a bad name.
rwcole @ 70
the ones I knew had made partying a fine art and a vocation.
David Neiwert @ 75
But if they are writing about the need for dominance by the white race, isn’t that about race? Even if they wouldn’t classify it as race but just as “the other”?
raven
yeah- good dogs- if ya have a skip loader to clean up after em with.
Whisky Fire is back up?
dmac, I love your parents! What a very cool and enlightened kind of upbringing you enjoyed.
david ehrenstein at 38-
you know i love you BUT
please list the artist when you post lyrics, not all of us are as well informed as you…………..and i hate having to google them to find out, as@hole, i’m on dialup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(said with love and reverence, i actually read his blog)
“and vocation”
Yeah- drinkin’s too fuckin important to be treated as a fuckin HOBBY- with AMATUERS.
ed @ 72
Keep em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen cooking, eh? Eugenics is a core issue in that segment of the population.
rwcole @ 82
And a mop!
Twain @ 81
Because the concept of “our kind” includes a lot more than race – also intellectual capability, heterosexuality, and able-bodied-ness. Among other things.
David Neiwert @ 75
I have a seizure disorder and there was a long time in this country when epileptics were discouraged from becoming parents. Same is true for people with other disabilities.
rwcole @ 86
I always hated Amatuers myself, you’re either on the bus or off the bus. . .Neal Cassidy
heh, ok david, I guess I was mixing responses to TRex’s article with this one. In any case, i have to say there’s a difference between “state sponsored eugenics” and having more kids because you think you’re a good parent. I see no advocacy for the former in crittenden’s article and plenty of the latter. what’s the issue with that?
furthermore, eugenics has such a nasty connotation that I think it was highly suspect to slam crittenden with that label when he’s clearly not suggesting anything like the sort of nazi tactics that are being discussed here.
Eugenecists probably have to be a little cautious as the practice their craft nowadays.
They’re so easily misunderstood.
ed – ask around. How many liberal / Democrats grew up in conservative / Republican homes? Lots. The idea that you will breed more of the ideologically same as you is preposterous. The entire march of history disproves it.
Where are the Vikings of Rollo? They’re social democrats.
i have to say i’m somewhat shocked at the knee-jerk responses to my original statement. would you have the same response to a suggestion that if you don’t like the machismo white-trash bs then don’t marry one and have his kid?
james @ 33
The Bush family support Nazis, but I thought the Nazis put the weakminded into camps and didn’t let them breed.
ed
“don’t marry one and have his kid”
Spounds like eugenics to me.
GordonM @ 94
I’m one. . . and Norwegian-Irish to boot.
james says wisely at 41-”Good for you.
In many ways the more hurtful when it happens, the stronger it makes you, at least that’s what I’ve found.
I grew up in church houses and foster homes, or with relatives from the time I was 7 until I was 12. My dad was away in the merchant marine and my mom was in and out of state institutions with schizophrenia. I learned to be self-sufficient and I think my abilities to function very well in the most chaotic situations stems from those experiences.
We just need to be sure that it stops with us.”
((((james)))) ((((loo hoo terry))))
i hope you found a way to find that secure feeling that everyone should know in their life………whether self-made or brought on by someone who shows you that…….
i had a friend that lost her parents and lived with her aunt and uncle, there was no room for her and her sister, but they lived there anyway…..it was right in my face how lucky i was every time i went there……….she is an incredible person………and taught me how you are one step away from adversity……..the real kind…….all the time…..
Loo Hoo. @ 43
Tikkun. They’re great! They certainly aren’t ADL.
GordonM @ 94
I agree that the specifics of an ideology are likely not directly passed down through generations, but to suggest that the ‘nature vs nurture’ argument has already been settled is ridiculous, and people are certainly entitled to hold the opinion that their nurturing has some impact
ed @ 95
There is no gene for “cooties”.
rwcole @ 27
Republicans probably plan to argue that abortion is the technique Democrats use to execute their eugenics selections.
They’re probably going to ask…
Do we select out for abortion any fetus which isn’t the preferred kind?
Is there a Liberal plan using eugenics to perfect some kind of Liberal race?
Who knows what they have on their minds, but they need some kind of divisive argument to get votes since they can’t do it with any sane arguments.
Eugenics are why nobody should have sex with conservatives.
Ed*ard Teller @ 100
What’s the topic?
ed @ 72
The argument is racist because Jules is not counting mixed kids only pure whites when he claims the white population is dying out.
rwcole @ 97
under the definition, certainly. the point of that statement was to point out the fact that not all that is eugenics is evil-nazi-gas-chambers and such
With a sound eugenics approach- Gooperism could be wiped out in our lifetimes.
rwcole at 53 says-”
So are you saying that the Irish are now NOT barbaric alien hordes?”
nope, i’m not, even my family horde……..
ed @ 101
Well if “nurture” is your goal, it’s self defeating to be popping them out one after another, isn’t it?
things come undone @ 106
where exactly does he do that? I see no mention of ‘white’ or anything even remotely race-specific in any of the article.
TexBetsy @ 105
Here’s a good one.
From Tikkun Magazine (www.tikkun.org)
An Evangelical Coup in America’s Military
Posted Friday, August 03 2007 @ 08:08 AM PDT
ed @ 111
Stop muddying the waters by asking for facts.
Raven
I find it annoying when he does that too.
It’s our jobs to confuse the hell out of our kids- send em a Eugenics manual!!
GordonM @ 109
i’m not interested in getting into that argument, nor do i see how it’s relevant to whether crittenden is somehow a horrible person because he advocates people having more children if they
raven @ 113
my sincerest apologies
Ed. This sort of BS was around in the 1890s when there were: a) lots of first generation non-slave blacks moving north in search of jobs, coupled with Jim Crow lynchings because of fears they would have sex with whites, and b) millions of immigrants – Eastern European (Jews, Poles) and Irish were flooding the country, bringing fears of the same thing. The salient debate at the time was whether the child of a mixed “race” couple represented a “dilution” of the blood lines of both parents, or instead (and more evil) took the worst features of both making the child something of a “monster.” There is a somewhat similar tenor afoot now with the anti-immigrant movement, and (shared) fears about the ruin of the white “race” through both “mixing” and a lack of economic opportunity all the way around. The gilded age millionaires who put up marble “cottages” in Newport also share something with our new financial “elites,” and they also were deeply interested, once they had their money, in creating good (better) bloodlines (i.e. to keep the money in a few select families). Same old, same old.
rwcole @ 78
Tall order, for sure.
Visited a german lady last night who cut the nuts off her dog cause he is prone to seizures…eugenicist!!!
rwcole @ 119
Why did the idea of a white haired woman with garden clippers come into my mind…
rwcole @ 119
Can she play QB?
things come undone @ 67
I am one of those mixed kids. *grins* It’s one of those things that i dont’ think about really. The way my family raised me was that i’m a bit of everything, and if you go far back enough in anyone’s family? So are they. I’m just a more obvious version. heh.
So does this guy think that EVERYBODY should be popping em out- or just CERTAIN persons?
Does he put himself in the “reproduce” or “don’t reproduce camp”?
That’s usually a clue!
Fern– Well I think she farmed out the nut cuttin.
1,575 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepups:
Eugenics, racist religious wars, state terrorism against it’s own citizenry…are we waitin for our own home-grown Nazis to jest give up and go back ta the ranch??!! This stuff is calculated, orchestrated and they’re serious here folks. To those who think that the forces of fascism are gunna allow a little thing like a free election to stop what they have started… well ,yer smokin’ some dangerous shit!
There is no choice but to fight fascism with more democracy and that means direct action in the streets, in the corridors of power and in every city in this country.
The elected Democratic leadership is NOT gunna use it’s power to confront this fascism unless they are forced to…and the only way we force ‘em is to organize and demonstrate. We hafta stop makin’ excuses for those who we elected when they start to stray onto the off-ramp…we gotta kick ‘em back into the fast lane and show the rest of the bastards that we’re serious out here.
And don’t let’s make condescendin’ fun of folks who are callin’ for direct action and national demonstrations…I for one am sick of pompous, sit on yer ass “liberals” who will bail out on regular folks when a dip in the stock market endangers their investments.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IT’S TIME TA STOP BENDIN’ OVER!!
Raven
Well I’ve seen her run- and she’s not a running QB—next time we visit I’ll test her arm.
rwcole @ 123
Actually his tone suggests that he finds the whole popping out procedure to be somewhat – er – distasteful.
http://ccoaler.blogspot.com/20…..etnam.html
Vietnam becomes another paradoxon used by the Bush propaganda
Fern–Well it IS distasteful- at least that part is- thankfully I missed watching my kids arrive on this earth.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. The non-white skins are out to getcha.
ed @ 116
That won’t do. You brought it up.
rwcole @ 126
Have her swing by the local Home Depot for an application.
rwcole @ 123
crittenden obviously feels some disdain for the “consciousness-expanding gender neutrality and growing as New Age androgenoids”, yet he seems to be saying, “if you don’t have kids don’t come crying to me when your ideals end up in the minority”. really doesn’t seem too nefarious to me…
Our un-elected Vice President is a fan of race specific bio-weapons.
“THEY will swamp YOUR KIND out of existence..”
So what KIND is that? Presbyterians?
GordonM @ 130
no, i just brought up my surprise at how crittenden’s article was treated. you’re the one who started suggesting he’s got some sort of evil purpose and then changed the argument to how many children someone can effectively nurture
ed @ 135
Man, it’s nice to see someone else in an argument here!
The more they are backed into a corner, the more they will spew from the fascist swamp they live in. Scratch a true conservative, and you will find a eugenicist. They have to bottom-line believe that success is genetically determined. Otherwise, it would be chance, or wealth not related to ability. And we can’t have that. Not in the land of equal opportunity.
I am sick at heart.
If this guy can explain who “THEY” are and what he means by “YOUR KIND” (who are gettin swamped out of existance- well then I’ll consider that he’s NOT afraid of white people bein outbred by the heathen colored people.
loo hoo at 84 says-”
dmac, I love your parents! What a very cool and enlightened kind of upbringing you enjoyed.”
they would adopt you,in fact, consider yourself adopted, ok?
mom has adopted my best friends as hers, they lost their moms, so she said they can call her mom……..and she sends them cards and things to make them feel it……..
they are totally cool people……they do volksmarches, which are 10k walks, all over the country, they have done all 50 states……dad wants to do all of the provinces in canada, they are almost there…..
he’s a retired corporate accountant, one with a conscience and she’s a retired principal/reading teacher………
dad protested what was going on in his paper company by wearing cowboy boots and growing a beard, which was against the dress code……this was in the early eighties, back when you didn’t do those kinds of things…….they layed off their entire corporate staff, and two of them were left, dad was one of them…….gave up being vice president because of his stand……….
mom started before and after school programs in her school, first in the country….also started other programs in the schools…..was head negotiator for the union, then when became administrator, was head negotiator for the administration….never had a conflict doing it….she was teacher of the year and later administrater of the year, and the city she lives in proclaimed a day in her name…..
they do all kinds of charity work in their area…….lots……..but in an anonymous way…they don’t like being public……but they were both in the paper a lot……but they tried to stay anonymous..when they have walks, they grill out and donate all of the money to cerebral palsy……once a month she has pizza night at her elks and donates all of the money to cerbral palsy, she buys all of the ingredients and my sister and me help make them……she helped the local cp unit get 25.000 in grants…….and her elks raffles off osu tickets every year, she huffs it on out there, and this year hit up the local osu alumni club, and one of them won the tickets and she and dad delivered them, and the people were all dressed in osu shirts, including their granddaughter……..they make thousands of dollars for cp……..
they are both incredible people
ed @ 132
What is the big deal abut being in the minority? All of us, except certain select white male designates, are in the minority. I think having the “minority” in control can’t be any worse than what currently exists.
While his premises seem to be classically rascist- and the quality of his writing is bottom drawer–he manages to end the piece with an antherm that anyone can appreciate—”GET off your ass an go FUCK someone”.
ed @ 132
And yet you just said “I agree that the specifics of an ideology are likely not directly passed down through generations“. That in reply to my saying that the Vikings of Rollo are now social democrats. Those seem like pretty damn big “specifics” to me. Conquer, kill, burn to the strongest social safety nets in the world? So what are these avowedly non-rascist attributes that should be passed on by, er, enthusiastic breeding?
juslin @ 18
The Jews turn will come, mark my words. Once this rapture business is tossed aside, the far right will be looking for more traditional scapegoats.
raven @ 136
yeah, well .. i don’t agree with you either :PeCAHNomics @ 140
there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being in the minority, and I never claimed there was. crittenden is just claiming that people who have more children are less likely to be in the minority. however, whether he’s right there or not is not a point of fact as it seems so many people here believe
The dog is annoyin me with her “play ball” demands- I’m gonna have her fixed—OOOPS- already DID that.
ed @ 135
No. You brought it up at 101. Go check. And review my previous posts too, before you make allegations.
Well as the head Eugenicist said “Mistakes were made”.
GordonM @ 142
my point was that to say that democrats or republicans will always have democrat or republican offspring is a bit silly, on the other hand, it’s not a big stretch of the imagination to assume that there are things that are passed down to children such as tolerance, understanding, kindness. “democrat” and “republican” are “flavor of the month” words that change from day to day, and a I think it’s not hard to believe that even those labels may not always accurately reflect a persons personal politics or beliefs
TexBetsy @ 105
I went to a conference at the San Diego County Department of Education perhaps 5 years ago. It was put on by a Jewish group (I thought Jewish Defense League but could be wrong). Wonderful conference-great sushi for the break! There was a speaker who was talking about white supremicists groups including one who employed (and kept pregnant) young white women for the purpose of breeding white kids. It blew my mind! I’ve googled, but no luck. I even invited them to come speak in my district, which they did. I’m not BSing on this. Has google been sanitized?
rwcole @ 108
Got a sign for the next political event here?
ed at 72 says-”I have to say, I think FDL totally missed it here with the racism claims. Reading through the original crittenden article, there’s not even a hint of racism, implied or otherwise. All I read was a simple argument saying that if you want there to be more people in the world with your ideals, have more kids, along with the claim that the whole “consciousness-expanding gender neutrality and growing as New Age androgenoids” crowd aren’t doing themselves any favors by not having as many kids as they can… nothing wrong with that argument”
i’m glad you don’t live in my house.
ed @ 148
Thank you. In implying that the Vikings of Rollo were similar in their values of understanding and kindness with the current occupants of the scandinavian countries, you have proved my point without possibility of ego salvation.
GordonM @ 146
all i said was that people are entitled to believe that nurture has an impact, just as they’re entitled to believe pretty much anything they want. you said, “i don’t believe that”, to which my response is “whoopie for you”.
as for “you’re the one who started suggesting he’s got some sort of evil purpose”, which I assume was the reason for your comment about allegations, I had confused your comments with others in this thread, sorry about that.
How bout another dog-fighting thread?
Loo
No- It would have to be shortened.
Maybe:
“Don’t breed goopers”
dmac @ 151
as, likely, am i
ohh we know code words when we “hear” them or see them in print – make no mistake about that ;o}
Must be a frightening thing- the entry of a new gooper into the world- Little beady eyss- grasping fists- whinin mouth- and already growin nose….YIKES!
raven
How’d the last one work out?
raven at 136 says-” Man, it’s nice to see someone else in an argument here!”
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Digby was speculating that Bush must have brought on Jonah Goldberg as a speechwriter because the logic is so pathetically weak and the speeches so poorly crafted.
Poor Jonah, LucyAnne’s finest.
-GSD
ed @ 153
No, I said “if “nurture” is your goal, it’s self defeating to be popping them out one after another, isn’t it?” I believe, like David Neiwert, that nuture is all important. That was the whole damn point of his post, wasn’t it?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 125
I assume you are Norwegian? MME TOO! For the most part. And I agree, it’s time to consider more than just calling our congresscritters unless we see some action when they get back to DC.
Reading through this thread, it’s astonishing to me how touchy people are, even still, about reproductive issues. It’s like a serious argument is brewing here under the surface banter. Weird.
Hi, all!
GordonM @ 152
only if i were willing to concede the point that the vikings of rollo are responsible for the majority of the current gene pool of those scandinavian countries
Brittany Spears is the new great white hope. She loves her Jaysus and Georgie Dubya too and she’s breeding like a bunny.
-GSD
sporkovat @ 47
Great book. Used it in my Master’s thesis
ed @ 148
Twere it only so. Tried to do it but my 26-year-old-son is completely Dark Side. So sorry I had ever given birth.
GSD
How many has she dropped?
OT the financial services/mortgage industry has lost 40,000 jobs since the beginning of the year, 25,000 this month.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20396081/
GordonM @ 162
ok, so nurture is all important, but it’s not ok to suggest that if you think you’re good at it you should have kids? am i missing something?
Sometimes I think conservative is just a polite word for scardey cat.
It’s not eugenics, it’s racism.
Loo Hoo. @ 172
We have a winner.
Loyalty to ones race is such a bizarre concept. Lizard brain stuff. Like grunting.
eCAHNomics @ 168
one data point doesn’t make a trend
ed @ 176
I stand completely dismissed.
ed @ 111
Jules argument is more people should have kids, since the population in America is growing just what could Jules be complaining about?
The pure white population is going down, Jules is ussing Racial Code words that people in the know understand but they are designed to be ignored by regular people. ” Do you know what is happening in Europe and Japan guess who is next”.
Its not having kids thats Jules concern its the number of pure white kids.
I don’t think we should focus on the negative people like Jules are worried so intergration must be working this is good news.
Yes society has problems with integration, immigration etc but the trend in society is getting better people like Jules divide America like poor white sharecroppers were encouraged to think the African Americans were the source of their trouble.
But if we compare living standards, education,death, infant morality rates etc of poor folks whites and blacks working together, organized into Unions vs poor folks in Right to Work states.
Then Jules’s arguments about society needing citizens who know how to read, write, tie their shoes (code for Whites) disappears. What we need is government for ALL THE PEOPLE, BY ALL THE PEOPLE.
ed @ 176
The Big Bang did.
ed @ 165
May I point you to Aardvarchaeology? There you will find some posts on the subject from someone who values data over preconceived beliefs.
RW,
I think Britto is at two and maybe working on number three.
-GSD
P.S.
Allow Bill O’Reilly to offer some enlightenment on the subject at hand:
Bill O’Reilly:
But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have. In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right.
Thems some scared white, dumpy middle aged fellers out there fer sher.
methinks there’s only 1 race – n’est pas?
Aloha Ya’ll, did you ever have one of those day’s that will be indelibly etched in your memory! It’s started out with an early am wake-up call, notifying my wife that her mother was being given her last rites… And it’s steadily grown worse since(if that’s possible!)…!!! 8-(
GordonM @ 162
I thought the point of the post was to paint crittenden as a racist in favor of the sort of eugenics practiced by the nazi’s.
in fact, even on his blog entry on the subject he unnecessarily injects race into the equation when responding to Andrew Stuttaford’s seemingly reasonable statement on the issue.
which, in fact, was the reason for my initial response to the article, and i still haven’t seen any reasonable response explaining why race was brought into the issue at all when it’s not at all clear that crittenden intended to be speaking about race at all.
1 race – different ethnicities or sumpin like dat
juslin @ 182
The Human Race!!!
things come undone @ 178
now I stand completely dismissed
david at 71 says-”
dmac: No, I’m not worried that Fiona might marry someone nonwhite in the least.
Why, are you?”
oh, no, read my earlier comment….i meant no offense, i really wanted to know how you felt….i was merely concerned that you might limit that………it happens……..please find my earlier comment about my sister and my parents……..i was hoping that you didn’t have that in you, but things change when you’re a parent…we live in a complicated world in more ways than one….but with my parents, even in the late 70’s, they had no color boundaries, even though they were both in a world that did……..at home, there were none…….and i learned more from them in that area than any…….it colored my world in all ways.
ww @ 175
How about loyalty to one`s nation
Edited to say – maybe what I should have said was `pride` in one`s nation.
eCAHNomics @ 168
Mine turned out great. Unfortunately he won`t talk to me.
I am an Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, German hybrid. My wife is Polish, Russian and Jewish. In addition to my three children by birth I have a wonderfaul 17 year old biracial son who is the light of our lives.
It doesn’t sound like “doom” to me. It’s actually quite nice.
GordonM @ 180
i take that to mean you’re assuming I would be one of those who values preconceived beliefs over data. however, i simply said i’m not willing to concede that point to you, not that i have an opinion either way. in fact, i’ve never given my opinion on the subject at all, because it’s not relevant to the issue i brought up.
to put it simply, yet again, i’m curious why FDL has been so quick to inject race into the discussion of this article, not once, but twice (this posting and previously with TRex’s posting). i see no indication of racism in crittenden’s article. it may be that he’s proven to be a flaming racist in the past, but holding up this article as proof of that doesn’t quite seem right.
dmac, I love your family! I can see why you are so proud of your family! You need to keep up the tradition in their honor. Which area of the country do you live?
Fern @ 190
Which is worse?
Fern @ 190
All four of my children are unbelievably kind and tolerant of others. It doesn’t always work that way but we should not blame ourselves. Everyone gets to choose.
ed
You don’t say those things right out.
You allude to them, you use coded language.
You say things like “Well, of course we HAD to move from DC after it got all………crowded, you know, the schools….”
and everyone knows what you mean.
There, I bet you know what I mean. Don’t even pretend you don’t, I’m not having it.
The guy NEVER said ANYWHERE:
“I’m a rascist and I only like white people- never- ANYWHERE!
eCAHNomics @ 194
Probably yours – in a what`s best for the world kind of way. I guess both hurt pretty bad.
Fern @ 189
Two entirely different things, of course, race and nationality. On many levels. Why do you ask?
dmac @ 65
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_K2F4-iaxo
Margot @ 196
that seems like a fine excuse to call anyone you want out as a racist, you can just claim they were ‘talking in code’ can i get a witch hunt?
Fern @ 189
An easy question if one subscribes to the doctrine of “My country, right or wrong”, but otherwise, it gets complicated very quickly. What if the measure of one’s loyalty is one’s willingness to commit an atrocity? What if one differentiates between one’s nation and it’s current leadership, when one is deciding to what and whom loyalty is owed?
One should always err on the side of caution.
ed @ 192
Sorry Ed, I am not buying. The entire context and frame of the article is based on race which I would like to point out is an entirely artificial concept with no basis in science.
Geneticist have already proven that there are more significant genetic differences between an East and West African than between a Swede and a West African.
This is what evolution does in direct contrivance(right word?) to eugenics
Our origin’s are in Africa..lots of sun, no need for vitamin D so skin was protected by it’s color.
Here is a little blurb for you:
The Biology of Skin Color: Black and White
Recent research explores the idea that human skin color is an adaptation to differing levels of ultraviolet radiation in different parts of the globe. The key, this hypothesis suggests, is the effect of sunlight on different vitamins, some of which need ultraviolet light in order to be produced in the human body, while others are destroyed by it.
Credits: From Discover, Vol. 22, No. 2, February, 2001. Gina Kirchweger/© 2001. Reprinted with permission of Discover.
Ergo Eugenics is bullshit
We are all brothers and sisters on this bus
Whether you’re tight assed white white honky
or an Eskimo in the Artic.
ww @ 199
Because I think many people – okay – many Americans have a pathological loyalty to their nation – in a lizard-brained sort of way.
rwcole @ 197
wait, i thought he did, it was just in code, right?
there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being in the minority, and I never claimed there was. crittenden is just claiming that people who have more children are less likely to be in the minority. however, whether he’s right there or not is not a point of fact as it seems so many people here believe
Ed, the people who have more children are more likely to be in poverty. Just basic numbers. When people are next door to poverty, or in poverty, it doesn’t work very well for the greater good. Some of us are actually interested in humankind in general.
Fern @ 198
Hey, thanks. Most people respond by telling me what I did wrong (and I’m sure they’re all right, but . . . )
“two entirely different things- race and nation”
Well what they have in common is tribalism–something that’s probably genetic.
loo hoo at 193 says-”dmac, I love your family! I can see why you are so proud of your family! You need to keep up the tradition in their honor. Which area of the country do you live?”
good ol’ ohio……they live north of cincinnati, sw ohio, i live in se ohio……….and they would adopt you……..
Shared Humanity @ 203
i guess i missed the ‘context and frame’ of the article, maybe someone could explain it to me. sounds like a bunch of people looking for racism where there is none
ww @ 199
Just different manifestations of tribalism.
RonD @ 202
My country right or wrong always results in my country wrong. Any country (or person, or party, or race, or religion, or whatever) that isn’t critizied always ends up on the wrong side.
Loo Hoo. @ 207
agreed, but crittenden isn’t telling people to go out and have so many kids that they have to go on welfare, is he?
ed @ 201
That’s been the phrasology of ‘white flight’ for decades ed. What rock have you been living under?
Eugenics is mostly used as a nice cover for racists to ‘breed out undesirables’ has been for longer than i’ve been alive. That’s just the way human nature runs with it, unfortunately. At least anyone that embraces it, that is.
eCAHNomics @ 208
Well, no, I wouldn`t be sure they`re right. I get the same thing.
Settle pups.
We’ve had just about enough feeding for the evening.
Alright?
Pax.
Maddy @ 204
Thank you Maddy. That deserved to be said again.
ed @ 187
No you fight you argue and when you feel you have been proven wrong you admit it. This takes courage just because everyone disagrees with you does not make you wrong.
You decide that for yourself hopefuly ussing reason as a guide.
I once had to apoligize at the Lake for arguing that a Supreme Court ruling on abortion was antiCatholic. I was wrong. The one time I defend the Church and I was wrong! I still give the Catholic members of my family grief about that.
rwcole @ 16
I’m opposed to it for any reason unless they want it and sometimes even then.
Ed,
Let’s see what Lee Atwater, master of the Southern Strategy(appealing to southern whites) in electoral politics had to say about saying something about the races in an indirect manner:
Atwater:
“You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Ni**er, ni**er, nig**er.’ By 1968 you can’t say ‘ni**er’ – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.”
-GSD
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
ed @ 184
And where to you see “nazi” in this post?
Which says “the white race“
You are citing the wrong post. I was citing David’s original post, the one that got Crittenden all hot.
And, gee, Crittenden managed to work the Japanese into his post! How far we have come since that horrid liberal rascist FDR who imprisoned the Japanese (with Malkin’s retroactive approval, of course). No, of course, we’re talking about the values of civilization being passed on by the (highly encouraged) breeding of the civilized to counter the nefarious breeding of the uncivilized (some of whom developed such ideas as algebra – you do know the origin of that word, don’t you?).
You’ve got nothing left, ed. You’re denying it’s a rascist (nature) argument, and asserting it’s a nuture argument, but you’ve already flip-flopped on that one a couple times. You’re left with the Righty troll’s dilemma – do I contradict myself again to save my ego, or do I quit with my ego in shreds? I’d advise you to quit.
ed @ 214
Is the message so hidden from you that you don’t get the gist? Having a lot of kids is just a way of enslaving women and keeping the lower classes in line. Does it really need to be said in words of one syllable in simple declarative sentences?
Margot @ 218
you’re saying you can see crittenden for a racist from that article? sorry, i just don’t see it, and i think it’s unfair to call him out as such without good evidence
Shared Humanity @ 212
Tribalism – thank you – the very word I was looking for. Maybe served us well when we were hunters and gatherers and all that stood between you and the dangers of the world was you kinship group – but maybe doesn`t work so well now. But doubtless hardwired.
CTuttle @ 183
Sorry to hear that.
Fern @ 216
Thanks again.
rwcole @ 155
Alright, as long as it’s in red, white and blue with lots of stars.
Richmond @ 44
http://www.informationclearing…..e13844.htm
Loo Hoo. @ 228
Gophers! when did we start breeding gophers.
ccmask @ 226
Mahalo, just received an update, she’s still alive, barely tho, morph*ne isn’t working at all!!! 8-(
The Iranians already had elections. We had nothing to insist.
-GSD
Is she local to you or are you getting ready to travel?
Fern @ 189
how about loyalty to ones planet?
my race is the human race
my family’s genetic background has three strains
fair wavy hair,grey eyes,pale skin that doesn’t tan well,solid build,slighly above average height.
black straight hair,blue eyes,pale skin that doesn’t tan well,very tall.
brown very fine straight hair,brown or green eyes,pale skin that tans up a treat.
family connections(children who have blood relations) are with-Sri Lanka,China,Italy,Scotland,Wales and Ireland(black).no Africa or South America(yet!give us time)
the point i’m trying to make is that ethnic purity is really not on.
the horse in any country,especially those formed by mass migration,has well and truly bolted.
education,education and education are and will be imvho our salvation
CTuttle.
So, so sorry. We’ll keep you proped up, promise.
(((LOVE YOU CTUTTLE)))
Keep us posted, buddy.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mr & Mrs Tuttle}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
ccmask @ 233
Preparations are trying to be arranged for my wife to fly from Hilo, HI, to Raleigh, NC!!! *groan*
Love and strength to the Tuttle clan.
may @ 234
And what’s so hard to understand about all of that?
Sometimes I feel like I’m not a memeber of the human race, and other times I wish I weren’t a member. In-between everything’s just fine.
and loo hoo i should say-
they are fdr democrats stuck in boehner’s district….yeah, the boner….i have heard comments about him over the years, but lately i asked my mom, so where in the hell did he come from??????????
west chester area, new money area……used to be farmland, became a republican stronghold………involved in the local republican party and was pushed to the top………money money money…….but people who have known him hate his guts, really……..even republicans won’t talk about him…..but they vote him in, because he is the money man.
it’s funny, around there, you can look at the programs of events in the town and see who’s running things………my parents show up on the democratic programs……the civic theater…..and other ‘arts’ events…certain sponsered events……other events are republican..and their names show up there….it’s funny that way……but you definitely know who is who……they fight it out through contributions……..but a weird thing there is, the most wealthy family in the town contributes to the arts center, and keeping the pools open……..they are republican, but non-partisan, they adopt the causes of the poor, are true charitable people……they live down the street from my parents….bush signs in their yard, yet they promote democratic causes in the city, quite a conundrum….i love them.
i wish my mom would run for public office, she would eat them alive with logic…..she already has through her school programs, she got them implemented through a very republican regime…….smart lady.
Fern @ 205
I see. Bizarre was a poor choice of word in the literal sense.
I suppose loyalty to race, nationality and even religion are related in this way; some people seem to accept the notion(s) without thought merely because that is the way they were raised.
Anyway, I am sorry I cannot explore this further at the moment, my young son is asking me to read a book to him. :)
{{{{ CT and Mrs CT }}}}
Our empathy and strength, CT.
Hang in there, CT. We gotcha.
Likewise, CT…
Mahalo Nui Loa, to one and all here at the Lake, Ya’ll are always a source of strength and inspiration to me and my clan!!! *g*
My nephew just moved from Hawaiia couple of months ago to Georgia. He’s slowly adjusting.
GordonM @ 223
first, when I said “the whole point of this post” I was referring to the ‘Reviving eugenics’ post by David that these comments are all a response to. and i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to see the connotation of the article as painting crittenden as a racist eugenicist.
secondly, please point out my flip-flops on the nurture issue, i really can’t see them.
and as for having nothing left, the only responses i’ve gotten are that the racists are all speaking in some coded language that I don’t understand. if that’s all the FDL readers have to offer, then so be it but forgive me if it doesn’t convince.
you can certainly point me to plenty of evidence that crittenden is racist scum if you like, but i stand by my criticism of this post as a poor example of said racism.
Yeah americans have a pathological love of their country–
Except for paying taxes to support it.
Except for enlisting to protect it
Except for putting in any effort to understand it’s problems
Except for having enough interest to vote in elections.
Except for supporting it’s constitution and bill of rights.
Americans LOVE their country- well really- they just love to wave their flags and then go drink.
That’s what passes for patriotism.
may god give you and yours peace and a calming spirit ctuttle….
{{{{{{{CTuttle}}}}}}}
ccmask @ 247
Heh, it’s amusing to see the reverse transition too..!!!
http://tarpley.net/bush3.htm
Read Tarpley’s Bush the unauthorized bio.
The bush family are deeply inbeded in Eugenics
The most important American political event in those preparations for Hitler was the infamous “ Third International Congress on Eugenics, ” held at New York’s American Museum of Natural History August 21-23, 1932, supervised by the International Federation of Eugenics Societies.@s9 This meeting took up the stubborn persistence of African-Americans and other allegedly “ inferior ” and “ socially inadequate ” groups in reproducing, expanding their numbers, and amalgamating with others. It was recommended that these “ dangers ” to the “ better ” ethnic groups and to the “ well-born, ” could be dealt with by sterilization or “ cutting off the bad stock ” of the “ unfit. ”
The Congress proceedings were dedicated to Averell Harriman’s mother; she had paid for the founding of the race-science movement in America back in 1910, building the Eugenics Record Office as a branch of the Galton National Laboratory in London. She and other Harrimans were usually escorted to the horse races by old George Herbert Walker–they shared with the Bushes and the Farishes a fascination with “ breeding thoroughbreds ” among horses and humans.
· As depression-maddened financiers schemed in Berlin and New York, Ruoaudin was now official leader of the world eugenics movement. Components of his movement included groups with overlapping leadership, dedicated to:
· sterilization of mental patients (“ mental hygiene societies ”);
· execution of the insane, criminals and the terminally ill (“ euthanasia societies ”); and
· eugenical race-purification by prevention of births to parents from “ inferior ” blood stocks (“ birth control societies ”).
In 1939, Farish’s daughter Martha married Averell Harriman’s nephew, Edward Harriman Gerry, and Farish in-laws became Prescott Bush’s partners at 59 Broadway.
Afterwards Bush personally summed up for the Congress the testimony his black-inferiority advocates had given to the Task Force.@s2@s2 George Bush held his hearings on the threat posed by black babies on August 5, 1969, while much of the world was in a better frame of mind–celebrating mankind’s progress from the first moon landing 16 days earlier. Bush’s obsessive thinking on this subject was guided by his family’s friend, Gen. William H. Draper, Jr., the founder and chairman of the Population Crisis Committee, and vice chairman of the Planned Parenthood Federation. Draper had long been steering U.S. public discussion about the so-called “ population bomb ” in the non-white areas of the world.
us in 1932, William H. Draper, Jr. was free to finance the International Eugenics Congress as a “ Supporting Member ”. Was he using his own income as a Thyssen trust banker? Or did the funds come from Dillon Read corporate accounts, perhaps to be written off income tax as “ expenses for German project: race purification ”? Draper helped select Ernst Ruoaudin as chief of the world eugenics movement, who used his office to promote what he called Adolf Hitler’s “ holy, national and international racial hygienic mission. ”
General Draper was George Bush’s guru on the population question. But there was also Draper’s money–from that uniquely horrible source–and Draper’s connections on Wall Street and abroad. Draper’s son and heir, William H. Draper III, was co-chairman for finance (chief of fundraising) of the Bush-for-President national campaign organization in 1980. With George Bush in the White House, the younger Draper heads up the depopulation activities of the United Nations throughout the world.
The U.S. Agency for International Development says that surgical sterilization is the Bush administration’s “ first choice ” method of population reduction in the Third World.
When Boyden Gray was four and five years old, his father organized the pilot project for the present worldwide sterilization program, from the Gray family household in North Carolina.
It started in 1946. The eugenics movement was looking for a way to begin again in America.
As the experiment began, Gordon Gray’s great aunt, Alice Shelton Gray, who had raised him from childhood, was living in his household. Aunt Alice had founded the “ Human Betterment League, ” the North Carolina branch of the national eugenical sterilization movement.
Aunt Alice was the official supervisor of the 1946-47 experiment. Working under Miss Gray was Dr. Claude Nash Herndon, whom Gordon Gray had made assistant professor of “ medical genetics ” at Bowman Gray Medical School.
Dr. Clarence Gamble, heir to the Proctor and Gamble soap fortune, was the sterilizers’ national field operations chief.
The experiment worked as follows. All children enrolled in the school district of Winston-Salem, N.C., were given a special “ intelligence test. ” Those children who scored below a certain arbitrary low mark were then cut open and surgically sterilized.
We quote now from the official story of the project:
In Winston-Salem and in [nearby] Orange County, North Carolina, the [Sterilization League’s] field committee had participated in testing projects to identify school age children who should be considered for sterilization. The project in Orange County was conducted by the University of North Carolina and was financed by a `Mr. Hanes,’ a friend of Clarence Gamble and supporter of the field work project in North Carolina. The Winston-Salem project was also financed by Hanes. ” [“ Hanes ” was underwear mogul James Gordon Hanes, a trustee of Bowman Gray Medical School and treasurer of Alice Gray’s group]….
The medical school had a long history of interest in eugenics and had compiled extensive histories of families carrying inheritable disease. In 1946, Dr. C. Nash Herndon … made a statement to the press on the use of sterilization to prevent the spread of inheritable diseases….
The first step after giving the mental tests to grade school children was to interpret and make public the results. In Orange County the results indicated that three percent of the school age children were either insane or feebleminded…. [Then] the field committee hired a social worker to review each case … and to present any cases in which sterilization was indicated to the State Eugenics Board, which under North Carolina law had the authority to order sterilization….
Race science experimenter Dr. Claude Nash Herndon provided more details in an interview in 1990.
Alice Gray was the general supervisor of the project. She and Hanes sent out letters promoting the program to the commissioners of all 100 counties in North Carolina…. What did I do? Nothing besides riding herd on the whole thing! The social workers operated out of my office. I was at the time also director of outpatient services at North Carolina Baptist Hospital. We would see the [targeted] parents and children there…. I.Q. tests were run on all the children in the Winston-Salem public school system. Only the ones who scored really low [were targeted for sterilization], the real bottom of the barrel, like below 70.
Did we do sterilizations on young children? Yes. This was a relatively minor operation…. It was usually not until the child was eight or ten years old. For the boys, you just make an incision and tie the tube…. We more often performed the operation on girls than with boys. Of course, you have to cut open the abdomen, but again, it is relatively minor.
George Bush was U.S. ambassador to the United Nations in 1972, when with prodding from Bush and his friends, the U.S. Agency for International Development first made an official contract with the old Sterilization League of America. The League had changed its name twice again, and was now called the “ Association for Voluntary Surgical Contraception. ” The U.S. government began paying the old fascist group to sterilize non-whites in foreign countries.
Having gotten away with sterilizing several hundred North Carolina school children, “ not usually less than eight to ten years old, ” the identical group is now authorized by President Bush to do it to 58 countries in Asia, Africa and Ibero-America. The group modestly claims it has directly sterilized “ only ” two million people, with 87 percent of the bill paid by U.S. taxpayers.
CTuttle-
The morphine needs to be increased, add ativan.
Don’t let them let her suffer.
thinking of you.
all.
your resident (frequently lurking) hospice nurse
namaste
OK- but not a penny for condoms.
rwcole @ 249
We have another winner/
Patriotism is rooting for other people’s kids to go to war and kill and be killed for purposes that no one really pretends to understand..
eCAHNomics @ 224
whether the article was misogynistic is an entirely different issue, and in fact I agree with you there
and as for the “lower classes”, the very line that David chose to quote:
“The people doing all the breeding around the world aren’t interested in consciousness-expanding gender neutrality and growing as New Age androgenoids or reducing their carbon footprints or trying to understand you in order to respect your differences or any of that.”
doesn’t seem to be calling out the lower classes to have more children now, does it?
zennurse @ 253
Thank you, Zen! My wife is a CNA who often works with hospice patients, however, we have geographical issues to contend with! *g*
oo i forgot (for shame!)the Norwegian ship-jumper in the mid 1800’s who married the Irish girl whose dad owned a pub.talk about falling on your feet.
The Lake being a little tense tonight, I think I’ll go do my work while I’m here at work. After the waters stop roiling…like maybe tomorrow…I’ll stalk back.
Nighters to the late crew!
((((ctuttle))))
oh, i hope she makes it there in time……….but if not, he can feel her love……..
and i think i missed a few comments, going back and forth, on dialup.
ed @ 257
Ed, having made just about every point it is possible to make on this – several times each – would you consider just letting this one go.
ed @ 257
Good point. The “lower classes” already keep themselves in line by having too many kids to get out of the rut. So the exhortation is to the upper classes to do same. Lotsa luck.
Ed, how about this one from Jules:
Keep civilized society going? Europe and Japan unbreeding themselves into irrelevance?
I guess Jules is saying that there’s no civilized society in Africa, no Asians (outside Japan) who can read and write, no Brazilians who can chew with their mouths closed, no Indians who are respectful of their elders . . .
Sorry, ed — Jules is playing the race game, saying that if white America doesn’t step up to the bed and breed, we’re going to end up like white Europe and become irrelevant.
Let’s not be hasty, here. I read the links on Eugenics, and I think it is worth a second thought.
We could start by draining the wingwer’s end of the Gene pool (they breed together too much anyway. Just look at Pam Atlas. Ewww, I wish I hadn’t said that! Where’s my eye bleach? Could somebody get be a Bicarb?)
Personally, I can’t wait until we’re all a nice mocha brown. What will we fight about then? Besides not enough drinking water to quench an overpopulated globe.
Is it time for a euGINic and tonic yet?
dmac @ 240
Well, what will it take to get her to run? Or for YOU to run, dmac?
Eureka Springs @ 268
Make mine a double.
Eureka Springs @ 268
Sounds like you’re trying to SCOTCH a heated discussion.
Ding!
Peterr @ 271
What a RUM idea.
Eureka Springs @ 267
I’ll drink to that.
Whatever happened to the USA? I graduated from an amazingly diverse public high school in 1962, and some of us still get together for a BBQ every summer. Yet I live in a totally white upper middle class neighborhood in Manhattan. What happened to me? What happened to my country?
Eureka Springs @ 269
Neat!
Where is everyone? Refreshing?
is this thing on?
They’re all trying to get the zed…
ccmask @ 276
I think they stepped out to get a drink.
And yes, that can be quite refreshing.
Eureka Springs @ 276
You mentioned drinks and everyone went away – just as far as the frig, though.
ccmask @ 274
Hmmm… I thought Punaise was back from La France…!!!
CTuttle @ 260
Then she will know that her mom already knows what she needs to know, can feel her across the miles and that the meds have nothing to do with timing. If mom is waiting for her, she’ll wait.
xo
eCAHNomics @ 274
reminds me of this post and comments
ed @ 248
But Crittenden was replying to David’s earlier post, wasn’t he?
You claimed that I was disagreeing with the very idea of “nuture”, when that was my point. Then there’s your “i’m not interested in getting into that argument” at 116. Please. Read what you wrote.
That’s to someone else, not me. I never used that argument. It’s correct, but impossible to prove to the willfully ignorant.
And I’ll stand by my argument that you are intellectually dishonest. You ignore evidence presented, and are perfectly willing to contradict yourself in the attempt to defend an unsustainable position. Every browser I know has a “search this page” function. It’s just that Righties don’t know how to use it.
Later, all.
self-edit
(((((((King Tuttle family))))))
Nite Peterr
boing reverse one and a half somersaults with three and a half twists, in the free position, no splash
g’evening everyone
(((mr and mrs ct)))
loo hoo at 270 says-”Well, what will it take to get her to run? Or for YOU to run, dmac?”
ha…….well, she’s not gonna run…….no way….she’s said that….my close friends i have told, if i knew then what i know now, i would have definitely headed that way……..definitely….i was a watcher of cspan when it first started, really..i taped it, that, and david letterman, that was my logic for a vcr, back when noone had vcr’s…NOONE watched it back then……but now, no, wouldn’t, couldn’t…….but that doesn’t keep me from being interested in politics……..
GordonM, my request to Ed goes for you too. Please – let it go.
Hiya Suz!! I’d like a twist in mine, too.
TRex must be typing away madly – bet it is a good one (whenever it posts)
Suzanne @ 290
Bon Soir, Ma Cheri!!! It’s refreshing to see your graceful dive again!!! *g*
GordonM and the rest – we are finished with this. Move on.
Latest Cook handicapping of 08 congressional races
On the house side, goopers have 17 seats at risk- dems 13
slight dem advantage
In the senate- goopers have four at risk and dems have two.
wangdangdoodle @ 292
She be taking drink orders! cool. All outta booze here.
got a caddie margarita goin here- and spuds on the stove.
ed @ 257
Scuze me. This is 2007, far as I know. Who’s still talking about racial superiority?
zennurse @ 283
True, so very true…!!! *g*
I might as well be out too Fern, I’m down to nuttin’ but Miller Lite.
and ecahn, you don’t have to answer this, but i have wondered before why you haven’t kicked the dark side out to fend for himself…it’s only healthy, ya know?……..seems like he’s old enough from what you’ve said……
wangdangdoodle @ 301
Yikes – that is barely beer.
Blues traveler on Austin City Limits tonight…. so sweet
Fern @ 304
Beer soda *g*
Miller Lite?
Oh that’s sad- that’s VERY sad.
beer flavored koolaid
rwcole @ 307
I feel my pain.
Ed, go to bed.
oh good lord…
wangdangdoodle @ 310
Uh huh. There is a point where tenacity ceases to be a virtue.
Ed, speaking as a moderator, you have been warned numerous times. Continued disregard will result in you not being permitted to comment – if that is what you are after, keep stepping on my last nerve.
new thread
eCAHNomics @ 273
Honey, everyone got priced out! You made a great real estate move. Be proud of yourself!
dennis eros at 254 says in part-” Dr. Clarence Gamble, heir to the Proctor and Gamble soap fortune, was the sterilizers’ national field operations chief.
“
that is so strange, the family i was talking about from my home town, the republicans who do so much good, their money comes from the proctor side of proctor and gamble………weird.
dmac, read tarpley’s foot notes. True is true. Fact is fact. No matter what good Dr. Camble has done he cannot hide from his Eugenics background.
Dennis
rwcole @ 119
Did she look anything like Barbara Bush??
Ed: Crittenden wrote:
This is the key phrase that makes the rest of the essay deeply offensive. He isn’t simply encouraging people to go out and breed in order to perpetuate their worldviews (which would be a plenty stupid assertion all by itself.)
He’s made a judgment here that certain people are morally required to have as many babies as they can. And look at the criteria — it’s straight-up classism (which in the US is tightly correlated with racism). He’s telling rich people to have more kids or the poor folks are going to overrun their asses and take their stuff. (Maybe in the form of repealing that rich-people tax cut?)
But if rich people take his advice to heart, then they won’t be rich for very many generations. Maybe he’s really advocating an underhanded way of redistributing wealth.
In any case, he completely ignores that there are too damn many people on this planet. How can adding more be considered a virtue, unless your concern is that there won’t be as many people who look like you? And that is racism. Really, it’s the only way I can make sense of what he says. What other interpretation can there be? Yours doesn’t quite fit.
Whew.
Luckily, I believe in reincarnation, in which the swampers end up being “born again” among the swampees, and the swampees end up being “born again” among the swampers, in one grand, celestial merry-go-round of madness and mayhem.
Of course, I can’t prove anything (no more than anyone can disprove it) but it just might explain Clarence Thomas.
Peterr @ 266
And of course we local African-Americans, Hispanics and what not can’t possibly hold progressive ideas, and aren’t doing enough to keep society going. Same ideas that some Europeans have: that progressive and modern civilizations must have white people with white skins to keep progressive. There are black and asian and Hispanic New Agers, you know. Good ideas are good ideas: how else does society progress if good ideas depend upon race.
Interesting it is that they don’t say the same about religion. Jesus was a Jew and more likely genetically related to the folks in Africa and Iraq than any Scandanavian or British person. Yet nobody says that minorities can’t be Christian, that Christianity is just for white people, that minorities can’t absorb Jesus’s love for the needy. Its just all the other ideas according to them can’t jump racial barriers.
james @ 33
The Bush geneology came into my mind immediately too! They’ve boasted how they can be tracked back to the queen and sadly – how even the Kerrys and Bushes are interrelated. This guy in the White House (as his father before him) is some kind of geneological throwback. The broken or diseased twig in that illustrious family tree.
Fuck Eugenics. I am a woman. I raised four children (mostly alone) worked full time and managed to breastfeed each of those kids for 6 months. So, this notion that you have to “take off for six months” in order to raise a healthy baby is just nonsense. Breast pumps have been around for a while, now. Whoever is caring for your child while you are at work can heat up saved breast milk in a bottle while you are at work and you still get to breastfeed the baby most of the time.
It is not easy, but most of us have to work. Most of us cannot afford to take off for six months whether we have a husband or not.
My ex-husband did not work full time. He sat on his ass and I worked. I took the babies to a sitter, worked full time, and came home and cooked supper and cleaned the house. He didn’t think a man ought to have to do housework or babysit. If it wasn’t for my oldest son, who came home after school starting when he was seven and cleaned house and did dishes, I could never have managed. He was not a sissy either. He was an All-Star baseball player.
I would have given my left tit for a husband like you. That dumb bitch has no clue about life in the real world.
UN’s report of future world population; current, 6.1 billion, 2050 7.7 to 11.2 billion, 2150 3.6 billion and 27 billion in 2150. Gee, why the disparity?
That response from Jules Crittenden is a joke, right? Are there really people in this nation that think so backwards like that?
That has to be a fictitious write up…No one can be THAT dense.
One is accustomed to see this stuff discussed under the heading of socio-biology.