If I was wrong to do that just use my email addy to send me a message chewing me out.

oddmommy @ 197

t4toby @ 194

the comment was not directed at you personally. I understand and appreciate your point of view re meat eating. I was responding more to the talking heads and organizations whose “positions” were being discussed.

Actually I have a history on this subject…..I tried to be a vegetarian once, but got no support from family or friends. Long story.

And, on the other hand, if you are equating anyone who eats meat with someone who gets off on killing dogs, and making them kill each other…..then I DO have a major problem with what you are saying.

I’ve run into a number of people whose bodies require a certain amount of animal protein in order to stay healthy. So, yeah, there’s definitely a difference

In fact, there’s good evidence that pregnant women should obtain certain animal-originated amino acids in order for their children to have proper neurological development.

In most cultures, though, adults can obtain appropriate alternatives to meat protein…though it gets progressively harder if one cuts out eggs, milk, and other secondary animal products. But when neural development is occurring the need for animal proteins appears critical to humans. It’s been a part of our lineage since Homo habilis (the first hominid that evidenced neural expansion) began scavenging meat some 2.5 million years ago. And all other primates do obtain some animal protein…even if its just a few termites, ants or an occasional birds egg.

If you’re against animal testing, then you certainly won’t want to benefit from animal testing. Don’t take aspirin, don’t visit a hospital. Stick to homeopathic remedies.

I don’t view this as a vegetarian issue or as a “medical testing” issue. Its an issue of cruelty and relative value.

One can be a meat-eater and appalled at inefficient, tortuous killing of animals. What Vick did is incomprehensible to me, and indicates a level of psycho-pathology in an adult that should have learned from childhood that reveling and deriving pleasure from the extended suffering of animals is wrong.

Judy Giuliani’s acts illuminate precisely what is WRONG with the medical supplier establishment. This wasn’t “medical research”…that had been done long before. Her demonstrations were unnecessary and not a little sadistic. She could have easily have obtained a video of the original research and shown the efficacy of her companies “staples” rather than repeatedly causing scores of dogs to undergo such treatment. Scientists that use animals for research don’t use animals unnecessarily in their research, and they certainly don’t cause unnecessary pain. Judy’s “procedures” seem to be way over the top in both those arenas.

And Romney? Did this guy not have any common sense? You don’t put a dog in a container on top of a car…or did he take it that “Carry-All” meant you could put anything up there…even the wife and kids?
Not sure if such a guys qualified for office if he can’t see that such an act would cause serious trauma to his pet.

Now, I’m not one to defend Bush very often. But at least his childhood prank of using firecrackers on toads…while wrong…was done when he was a boy. And the moral compass takes a while to be fixed in children. Good parents tell kids not to do such things like carry dogs by the ears, or to tease pets incessantly, etc. Good parents use these as teaching moments to help instill a sense of ethics and empathy with other living things. Usually the kid sheds some tears realizing that Mom and Dad DISAPPROVE (that’s how they learn that society will DISAPPROVE of things that they do, and they have to THINK about their actions).

Vick, Judy and Mitt….and Dubya and Cheney’s torture of individuals simply to wean information from them…or drive them crazy into compliance (see Jose Padilla) suggest something went VERY WRONG with their upbringing.

Well some enterprising activists can show up at Romney’s campaign stops dressed as dogs. Sorta hound him so to speak.

He needs a staple diet of such visits!

I’ll vary my approach.

(BTW- I heart Jane.)

what got me, was growing up, i noticed how the cows always noticed humans, i used to bring this up constantly in my family, most often in the car…told my family how the cows were like us…drove them nutty with it…….

a few years ago, lived next to a cattle farm……..at first, i knew every cow, then realized they disappeared……then had to listen to the calves when they were separated from their mothers…….wailed all night long……..i quit looking over there except to glance, caused to much pain.

each person has their own experience, but you can tap into some experience with animals or nature with almost everyone……but that doesn’t mean they’re going to stop eating meat……

you can talk about sustainability, but that doesn’t mean everyone will contribute to it.

you can talk about meat production and practices, but that doesn’t mean everyone is going to care…….

i went to the fair one year with a friend to see her grandson show his chickens…the fair that year was dedicated to her husband who had just passed…her grandson, who i know, informed me that they are raised to be deformed, can’t even stand on their feet because of their weight, bred to have bigger breasts than their feet can support…….grossed me out, i said thanks a lot……..

and yet, knowing what i know, i eat a little meat, not often, but i do….was a vegetarian for years, because i just don’t like meat……and believe me, being a vegetarian in the late 70’s and early eighties was not an easy feat…….
a lot of my friends are pure foods people…..i lean that way.

so, you do what you can in your own world to make responsible choices that you can live with……

inform people without pressure or ulterior motives and use true facts.

and write letters……

I would suggest you would be off to a good start if you bit Mitt, but I don’t recommend it. He probably hasn’t had his shots. He is sounding rabid.

I don’t think you read what I wrote. I wrote “so many,” not “all.”

“i also commented on how much it cost to treat my ill animal, and that i never thought twice about it…”

Exactly, and that’s the problem. No sign that you weighed the suffering caused by treatment against the suffering caused by euthanasia (zero). No sign that you treated the vets’ advice with any skepticism, given their obvious financial interests.
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no, it was treatable, he was bouncing back, but he gathered more fluids, so had to put him down………went on over two weeks.

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We had a 12 YO dog with a big neck tumor, and a vet wanted to put him on chemotherapy. Luckily, he was bitten by a spider, and the prednisone a different vet gave him for the bite made the tumor shrink, meaning that it was benign. He lived for 18 months after that, and we put him to sleep at home on the first day he clearly didn’t feel like getting up to pee, and wouldn’t eat. No transportation, nothing invasive.
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that’s the time to do it then

i had two cats who i loved as well, and had to put them down when they had no quality of live anymore……..and our family dog growing up, same thing…….i know the choice……and when to make it
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“..even though it endangered getting a house…”

Bragging.
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bullshit, i loved that cat. guess i was bragging about how much i loved that cat.
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“…i didn’t know the amount until after we had to put him to sleep…”

If it wasn’t important, why mention it now?
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geeeeeez, where the hell are you coming from?
as an example of how much an animal can mean, that i would have given him anything i had, and did…….same as a human…..
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“…and had to travel and hour and a half for the care,…”

Not pleasant for a sick animal.
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scuse me, we had to rush him to the emergency room at two in the morning, because there is no emergency services in seohio…….he travelled one way……..once…….
you sure have a burr…..up………
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“… no emergency vets around here..and with a husband i was soon to divorce………i wouldn’t call that bragging,…”

I would.
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well, you weren’t in the car.
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“i think people were trying to say in terms that people would understand how much they value their animals, enough to put their money where there mouth is……….”

Exactly. It’s about the animal’s value as a possession, not what the animal would want. That’s what is so offensive about it; it’s analogous to Vick tallying up the money he spent on his dogs as a defense against cruelty charges. In the end, it’s really about distinguishing yourself from other people.
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maybe for you.

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