Okay let’s just get this out of the way up front. Nobody has peed on more bushes, sniffed more dog butt or chased more squirrels than me hollering “screw Michael Vick.” I don’t get the guy. Who gets off watching dogs tear each other apart, and then hangs them if they underperform? He’s got some serious problems.
But in light of the NAACP’s call today that after Michael Vick has paid his debt he ought to be allowed to return to football, I thought I would add my two cents. And I think the whole thing needs to be put in context.
Michael Vick is a football player. Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani are running for President. Mitt Romney blithely tortured his dog by tying it to the top of his car for 12 hours until it defecated down the back window under the stress, then thought of himself as a real smart feller because he grabbed a hose and washed it off. That particular incident of cruelty and callousness towards animals barely even charted with Our Elite Media.
Then there’s Judy Giuliani, who demonstrated medical staples on dogs for fun and profit who were killed afterwards. I really just do not see that she did anything that wasn’t just as bad as Michael Vick, with the exception that the medical industrial complex managed to buy her way into legality. It’s still cruel and immoral as hell, but we really didn’t hear much about that when the vultures were circling Michael Vick, did we? It would have been the perfect time to mention it, a wonderful correlating story, but we got…zip. Nada. Nothing.
Why, one might ask, are two people engaged in the race for the nation’s highest office not given more scrutiny on this front than a professional football player? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending Michael Vick’s actions. And I don’t know that the NFL, a company with a brand to think about, wants to be associated with animal cruelty in the future after Vick has done his time. But if that’s the case, shouldn’t the United States of America be a bit more worried about electing a President who openly embraces similar behavior? Because while Rudy didn’t exactly exterminate the brutes himself, I didn’t hear him utter a word against it. (Does anybody think he wouldn’t?)
We heard about John Edwards’ haircut nonstop. The stories of Mitt and Judy Giuliani torturing dogs barely lasted a day. Then Michael Vick entered the headlines, and it’s not that the story itself had no native appeal, because that’s all we’ve heard about for days. So enquiring hounds want to know. What is it about Michael Vick that makes him more worthy of being publicly pilloried than Mitt or Judy?
Also, as Matt Cooper notes, factory farming in this country pretty much institutionalizes cruelty to animals. Are people just wake up to this stuff?
(Note: Our advertiser, the Humane Society, is trying to stop cruelty to egg-laying hens in the ad in the sidebar. It’s just a coincidence, but please click through anyway and hassle Wendy’s a bit, it’s a good cause. Woof.)
Related posts:
- Late Night: Sarah Palin Consults Her Little Black Book
- Mitt Romney’s Idea of Health Care Reform: Giving Big Insurance Whatever They Want
- Mitt Romney: Scrapping Totally Pointless, Costly and Unnecessarily Provocative Bush Missile Shield is “Dangerous”
- Waxman: Blue Dogs Trying to “Eviscerate” Health Care
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
hi jane
arf, arf
WOOF.
arf
Fetch!
Bob in HI
But, of course, it turned out that he was just a fart smeller. *rimshot*
J. A. Baker @ 6
Ha!
Single digits, let it be, sweet momma!
Our dogs are important members of our family and are treated with respect, dignity and as much equality with their human companions as possible. Abuse of any kind is intolerable!
Strap Mitt and his five sons to the roof of a car for twelve hours.
retirin’ in five @ 8
I agree. I have found all the info about Romney and Guiliani (back several weeks ago when they first came out) appalling…
I have a number of animal-loving right wing acquaintances, and I made absolutely sure they knew about these. I don’t know who they will ultimately vote for but it won’t be those two .
What is going on. I have been trying to get here for several minutes, but could not and when I refreshed the page, the whole post disappeared. I eventually ended up here somehow through “history.” Anyway, wanted to say Hi, Kobe, good post! Jane, you trained him well. Now he’s an activist too!
11?
The realization of factory farming turned me into a vegetarian many years ago, and I try hard to limit myself to only organic eggs and dairy products, as well. It’s a wee bit hard (not all stores carry them, and they do cost more) but it’s easy when I think about what goes into our mass-produced food.
And yeah, Mrs. Giuliani and Mr. Romney can join Dr. Cat-Killer Frist in the line of GOP animal torturers.
Animal cruelty is a strong predictor of predatory aggression. If I had my way, animal cruelty in childhood would be a disqualifier for any public office.
yellowdog jim @ 12
Close, bro. Let me calm down! Mistreatment of mammals that entrust you with their lives and blindly give you their undying loyalty is unforgiveable!
Having a dog and being seen with it are necessary to being elected president.
Does Hillary have a dog?
Obama?
Edwards?
J. A. Baker @ 6
That was the original joke. Kobe opted to edit himself and take the high road.
Well some enterprising activists can show up at Romney’s campaign stops dressed as dogs. Sorta hound him so to speak.
I can think of two (somewhat related) reasons: 1) The Mittster and Rudy are white, God-fearing Repooplicons, and thus utterly infallible in the eyes of the “librul” media, and 2) To paraphrase a certain anti-housing discrimination PSA that ran on Air America a while back: “Oh my goodness, [Michael Vick]’s black!”
It’s such a bitch. You know how much I love dogs but some people treat dogs differently than others. I have good friends that though we were insane to spend $15k on Raven’s cancer. Some people don’t do anything but get shots. Some feed their dogs table scraps. My vegan neighbor pointed out that many of the ways we treat the animals we eat is horrible. The NAACP doesn’t think dog fighting is any worse than deer or duck hunting. I always thought that anyone who could not kill and dress an animal that they were going to eat shouldn’t eat it. The whole thing is really confusing I guess.
Jonathan @ 16
No they aren’t. Clinton didn’t have a dog until after he was elected, he had a cat.
Ann in AZ @ 11
i am a regular at Late Night here.
sometimes our FDL Heroes are backstage writing up their posts for us And they might slip up and post it before it’s ripe yet.
Then it can get taken back and saved until the fullness of time.
to everyone’s befuddlement.
BUT
it all turns out fine in the end.
(all such ZEDs do get preserved.)
Millineryman @ 18
Maybe a watchdog group would do it.
Kobe-
Buddy and Princess say hi to you and Jane.
Kobe headlining?
COOL!
Now that he is in Dee Cee he needs to go around to the Whitehouse and start marking our territory.
Tom in AZ @ 24
Ditto from the Bohdisattva.
Raven — white dog has four thousand worth of titanium metal and screws in her leg and we’d do it again in a heartbeat. You are truly a good soul. (But then I knew that, bro.)
yellowdog jim @ 22
And a good thing, too!
Jane Hamsher @ 17
I guess great minds just think alike, eh?
retirin’ in five @ 27
Thx, you seen Dogster?
There is a catster too!
Kobe, you are so right.
There’s a columnist in the Post today making many of the same points – except his conclusion seems to be that if we eat meat we have no right to come down so hard on Vick. Another columnist (a woman, both names escape me) in the Post sports section explains well why it matters- not just the cruelty of dogfighting, but executing dogs for losing, plus the whole underworld, seedy, lowlife aspect of the gambling and the people involved, etc. It’s very good.
But, reading the other guy (who probably does take the view, without stating it out loud, that the main diff between Vick and others is that Vick is black), I wanted to point out to him that under his criteria, I do get to come down hard on Vick because I don’t (well, often, I’m working on it) eat meat, I work to rescue animals, AND most of my earlier career has been in providing help of one kind or another to the poor and neglected people in our society. Not everybody who howls about animal cruelty is placing animals above humans.
In fact, one of my main points (somewhat like Christy, I base a lot of this on what I’ve seen in representing parties in child abuse and neglect cases, not to mention criminal/juvenile cases)- people who would torture and kill animals for no reason are barely a step away from doing the same to humans. All too often, they take that step.
It’s important to make a big deal of animal cruelty for just that reason (along with the inherent wrongness of it).
Yes, a couple centuries ago bull-baiting and dog-fighting and cock-fighting were acceptable and popular. So were making a day of attending public hangings and beheadings, not to mention auto-da-fes of heretics and recalcitrant (unwilling to convert) Jews.
Most of us think we’ve advanced beyond enjoymet of such spectacles, even though resistant groups remain, mostly out of sight of the majority in our society.
Well, I’m going on and on. Sorry, Kobe, you hit one of my sore spots.
And, oh yes, why the hell AREN’T the MSM talking constantly about Mitt’s dog torture?
(which apparently was part of tortruing his kids too – no potty breaks except on a preplanned schedule). I don’t get it either.
Must be IOKIYAR.
Why does Vick go to court but the folks who order torture or conduct torture of human beings remain free?
All Vick had to do was join the US armed forces.
twolf1 @ 23
McGruff?
raven @ 26
ditto from Louis le chat
Redshift @ 14
And that would have saved us from George “frog-exploder” Bush!
Eureka Springs @ 32
My buddy was a tracker in the Nam. No one loves their dogs more than them.
punaise @ 34
Great shot!
tejanarusa @ 31
Kobe was not defending Michael Vick. Not at all. Just saying that if he’s deserving of this treatment, Mitt and Rudy are doubly so.
retirin’ in five @ 15
it is all too obvious to the karmically insightful what such a transgressor’s next life will be: such poetic justice is simple to write.
we always watch the ASPCA “Animal Precinct” show on Animal Planet.
Animal Control Officers to the rescue!
My dog’s reaction to Mitt:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/b…..730100113/
I don’t care what race Michael Vick is. He tortured and killed hundreds of animals. He should go to jail and be dropped from the NFL. If I had an employee that committed these crimes I would fire him. And if I did a background check on a future employee and found this out-NO WAY am I going to hire that a**hole. To kill dogs with you bare hands is beyond cruelty. No punishment with the exception of torture itself is too harsh for this PSYCHOPATH. I cannot think about this any longer or my head will explode.
This is the age of the culture of cruelty. Whether it’s to animals or to children. Whether it’s small time hoods in street gangs doing it, or big time thugs like the Bush administration perping it. Cruelty has become more or less expected, and perhaps accepted in many quarters of this country. Whether it’s bullyism in the schools or the Executive Branch, it’s the same deal.
Okay, I know this has been asked a million times – but where are the instructions for getting my f beside my name – now that I have a (rudimentary) facebook page and all
Redshift @ 21
Thanks for the correction.
I still think, though, the Dem nominee will do best by being seen with a dog. Or two.
If that isn’t a ‘I just heard a can opener’
look, I’ve never had a cat.
Jonathan @ 16
Hillary has Big Dog.
Where is the outcry (and lawsuits) for the hundreds of thousands (millions) spent for the Chinese dog and cat food mess. And, the pain and suffering by both these pets and their owners. We paid close to $1000 to vets fees, lab work and medicine in a 2 week period for our dog’s mysterious stomach ailment at this time – and decided that we would not put him through the suggested “experimental surgery” in the hope they could find a cause. We took him home “to die” – and he fooled us and lived. :-)
raven @ 36
Did I mention dogs or Nam? Raven, you know what I meant.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
I am NOT trying to excuse any of this but this is not some new thing that just came along. In Colonial America they had bear bating and gander pulling as sports.
Geeez Kobe, you write and type better than I do
You must be a liberal ;-)
My dog eats meat- and hates veggies.
Our household is comprised of me, my partner, 2 dogs, Bandit the Japanese Chin and Brandy the Sheltie; and 5 cats, Marcus, Alibi, D’Artagnan, DC and Kitsumi.
We’re adding my Mom and her cats Tealc and Tao in October…
Like animals? What makes you think that?
Fern Firedoglake @ 43
Go to the “Meta” box at the bottom of the far right column
Register with FDL
Wait for an e-mail from FDL with a password
Go to your Facebook Profile and copy the URL. Make sure you get the actual Profile with the long number at the end rather than just the layout.
After you get the FDL password, come back here and click on the Login link. Login to your FDL Profile, fill in the appropriate information including pasting the Facebook link info in to the appropriate box in your FDL profile.
Save profile.
You should then have the facebook icon showing when you comment.
You have to re-log in each time you restart your machine or browser (depending on your browser)
Excellent post Kobe – thanks to you Jane, as I suspect you had to type it for him.
Jane Hamsher said:
Uh-oh, I should have edited my post better – I didn’t take Kobe to be defending Vick. The columnist in the Post was, sorta. I apologize for implying Kobe is no smarter than that– should’ve clarified and distinguished between them better.
I guess it’s true – something about the helplessness of most animals before a human determined to treat them cruelly just trips my trigger, and I rushed to post.
marymccurnin @ 46
Well, the word ‘dog’ does have different meanings.
Yellowdog — yeah, Jeebus, let their be karma for the next life!
Raven — a cocker! (In memory of the black cocker, Boogs 1972-1989. Present companions are both labs — aging rapidly.
Also, dropped fifteen hundred on cat Beaniehead (1987-2004) to prolong here last few days with some modicum of comfort.
I have nothing but revulsion for people who abuse animals.
Redshift @ 14
Yes! This is THE point. Once a person has no concern about injuring or (gods help them) killing dogs or cats or any small animals, said person begins to have no concern about humans suffering the same fate(s).
Go Kobe! Toby the Doby says hi!
Eureka Springs @ 48
You are right, the conversation about Vick had nothing to do with dogs. Give me a break.
Fern Firedoglake @ 43
There’s basically two more steps to take now.
First of all, on the FDL home page itself, look along the right sidebar, scrolling down as much as you need to, until you find the small final box that says something like META: site admin, login, register, etc. Click on the “register” option, and set up a login/password name for FDL itself (this is separate from Facebook). There’s an email confirmation in this step, so it does require a real email addy (will not be visible to anyone but site admins such as Jane, CHS, etc).
Now, the final step is to use the Login button, under that same meta box with your new login setup, and you will see there’s a Facebook entry box. You need to find your own Facebook URL (go to your profile page, and copy the profile.php one. This is mine:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=606423320
yours will be similar (different number of course!) Paste that into the FDL’s facebook box, and save. Now when you comment, provided you’ve logged into FDL, you will get a little f by your name.
hi Kobe,
i have sent you a request to be your facebook friend.
and i’d like to quote you about our facebook thing:
from Won’t You Be My Neighbor comment #39
Thanks, Kobe.
lick your master/mistress for us.
Guys like Vick are sick. And of course we have a prez who seemingly enjoys executions.
Read somewhere that a well-cared-for cat costs $7,000 over its lifetime.
tejanarusa @ 55
Kobe was being hypersensitive. He really wanted to say “eff michael vick” but was trying to set an example for Lucy.
retirin’ in five @ 57
I never had anything but big dogs until I met my wife and she brought home one of her family’s Cocker pups. I’ve had a lot of great dogs but Raven was the best!
Jane
Pics in your email.
raven, very well then.. will save my irony for the Colbert hours.
peas
ES
Redshift @ 21
OT..and for what it’s worth:
Sox the Cat is alive and well and living with Bettie Currie in Southern Maryland.
Greetings from Jewel, who you can see is terribly neglected and abused. (Cue the snickering in the gallery ….)
Okay, this just hits too close to home for me.
Our 13 year old shepherd-chow mix/mutt has just been diagnosed with kidney failure. We’re doing our best to make his final days comfortable but my wife and I are grappling with the reality of this situation.
This dog was our first “surrogate” child before the human ones came along. The enormous and awesome responsibility of euthanising a pet, allowing it to die with some dignity is overwhelming to me.
How anyone can regard an animal’s life with such arrogance (yeah, Mitt, Vick, and Judy, I’m talkin’ to you) physically nauseates me.
In the meantime, Kobe, thanks for your post and please, all you firepups keep our doggie in your thoughts as he (and we) prepare for his passage to that big field where he can chase squirrels and cars all day long, and get treats anytime he wants.
Does anyone know if Vick has a party affiliation or any particular voting history?
Cheney & his crew blew away over 500 birds for fun in one day and it was perfectly legal. Though there is a difference between the acts it doesn’t seem like one should be a felony and one should get you a slap on the back and a drink.
Redshift @ 14
You mean like blowing up frogs and killing 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians?
mc @70:
{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
Been there, done that, too many times
It never gets easier.
Eureka Springs @ 67
to you as well
Jonathan @ 63
We pay about $50 a month for food for two cats. Abner and Gracie probably live better than some human in the developing world. (Although at least those humans have free access to the outdoors, Gracie adds.)
Jonathan @ 44
Nominate Jane and the big Poodles
…..prob solved!!!
I’ll vote for her from here in BC (legally I might add, absentee – Pete DeFazio is my Congress Guy). I’m proud to vote in a Blue State, and live in a socialist/democratic paradise (well, we do still have a medical plan, in spite of the neo-con attacks on it).
Actually sometimes I think all Canadians should be allowed to vote in US Federal elections to counter act the toxic effect American Policy has on our country. If Canadian votes existed AND were counted in the US, the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief could never have been elected. His wannabe clone (Stephen Harper) will never get his dreamed of majority and hopefully will be sent packing back to Texas north (Alberta) sooner than later!
Hang in there MC and the Missus. Grapple as you will, but in the end I’m sure you’ll do the right thing, painful as that might be. Lots of support for you on this board after all, we’re Firepups.
No fair, I started Dogs Against Romney two months ago!
Just checking
P J Evans @ 69
Funny pix. I’ve been amazed at how many funny cat pictures there are on the toobz….I myself love to go to “I Can Has Cheezburger” when I’m feeling down — always perks me up. Yours made me laugh, too.
Ari Fleisher on hairballs couldn’t answer the question about the ruined military or having a draft.
Fern @ 79
HA! I triumphed over the forces of technology!
Here’s some more cruelty.
Mortgage industry job cuts surpass 38,000
Companies stop ‘on a dime’; 24,000 positions eliminated so far this month
Fern @ 79
Fern’s in!
FWIW, there are in the U.S. a number of very quiet, financially well-off individuals who make 6- and 7-figure donations to animal-related organizations.
These individuals are fierce in their desire to protect animals and wealthy enough to make a significant ripple with their giving.
They are, IMO, a potentially strong force for dem candidates with a pro-animal message.
Justin @ 72
Justin – what you said. Especially since Cheney kills birds that are essentially tame and tossed in front of his gun for his killing pleasure – no “hunting” about it. The prevalence of this sort of thing is appalling to me – I think it ought to be a crime.
Justin @ 72
This is the worst kind of “hunting” and IMO crosses the line…however I’ve got no problem with eating anything you hunt. But what C does amounts to nothing more than driveby shooting, except that it is, as you note, legal.
Walmart “quietly” pulled dog treats off their shelves in the past couple days.
Walmart:Dog treats tainted
i’ve wondered the same thing, jane.
no brainer-
(the snark is free)
he was an uppity black man, bringin’ ‘his kind’ into ‘our neighborhood’, and it was in virginia……..we don’t cotton to that.
but they don’t do those kinds of things there doncha know. there was no dogfighting until he brought it in…….riiiiiiiiiight………
romney’s was ‘innocent’, wife and kids on vacation, couldn’t be helped, had to take fido with them, after all, they are family. ya know? what’s so wrong with thaaaaaaat? at least he got to go along, he loves the car!!!!!!
judi’;s/rudy’s-it was legal, what’s your problem……….they need to do research to benefit humans….look at how people benefit from staples being used for surgery, lot less infections, etc……..unh huh…….a friend actually said that to me…….and her animals are golden, spoiled, 4 dogs and 3 cats who all get lots of attention…….i don’t get it……she used to be a nurse and radiologist……..she didn’t see the conflict there……..i’m thinkin’ i didn’t explain it right, will try again.
i’m glad none of these people are my friends or relatives.
The Mutts Against Mitt needs to be a registered non-profit, stat. With Kobe as its president. If wingnut welfare can do it, why not FDL?
Justin @ 72
And this doesn’t even address how many human beings he’s help destroy….
These guys get off on mass slaughter.
Jonathan @ 56
Hi, Jonathan. Been out all morning having tests done.
You mentioned talking in one of our threads last night re: Dallas?
Any time.
clichyatmacdotcom
I’m just gonna hang here a bit and then take a nap…been up since 4:30
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
Of course, “nobody could have seen this coming.”
I’m sickened by the number of business “pundits” who kept saying a year ago that there really was no real estate bubble…
Let’s negotiate with Cheney – we’ll let him attack Iran, if he’ll quit killing birds. Oh I forgot, he’ll do whatever the hell he wants, citizens don’t matter, the constitution don’t matter only the Prince of Darkness and his wisdom is relevant.
BTW – I’m not serious
This is OT…wait till you all see the CRIMINAL
Ari Fleischer on Hardball, he looks like crap and he wAS SPINNING about his new wingnut welfare group. Paul Rieckhoff is tearing Ari a new one calling them out about using troops as political props. Good on him. Of course their ad shows the plane hitting the WTC and then a poor braVE soldier who lost both of his legs talks about the war in Iraq and how we have to protect our country from the terroists who attacked us. It was so friggin sad, but these criminals will use these soldiers for anything that pleases them, of course they still are underfunding their treatment ..Oye I am just sickened by this!
Kobe,
Nice to hear the pet’s point of view. Fin (his back end sways like a fish) would chime in much the same way. More Kobe!
When I win the lottery, I am going to start a foundation to give small grants to individuals for vet costs for people who have trouble paying. I recently spent nearly $2000 trying to nurse a sick kitten back to health. Every pet deserves a chance.
pseudonymous in nc @ 89
MMM, I agree. (Dogs Against Romney, too, although Mutts Against Mitt has a great rhythm to it).
And we should all start showing up with signs (see Freeway Blogger for instructions on how to cheaply make large signs) saying same at every Romney appearance, every Repub candidate debate.
Maybe the signs should have a graphic of the cowering dog atop the family station wagon…
Franco @ 95
[my bold added]
OMG
MC @ 70.. I’m so sorry. My SharPei died from kidney failure at 8 and at the time I also had a 16 year old golden who at first seemed fine cause the brat was gone but died 10 days later. As much as Sonny wanted to be an only child again, he also missed his playmate and partner and crime. It took me a few years but I saw an not adoptable mutt and brought her home. Her name is Moxie, after a drink from New England. If you have ever tasted it, you know it is an acquired taste. Good luck to you.
Kobe
Right on!
Goopers are bad for animals- bite em all in the ass!
Snuffi the Dog
Haha!
And Kobe has it down. I hope that his friend Jane will write more about what the relationship between an animal and his caregiver will say about the nature of a human beast.
I also think that this article in the NY Times is prescient in this respect–as far as I know, neither the Dems or the Rethugs “get it” when it comes to humane animal husbandry–but there is some serious common ground to be forged if the Dems would be willing to stretch themselves.
tejanarusa @ 93
Hell, I saw this coming more than two years ago when I was getting divorced and started looking for a house.
It was insane what people were trying to get me to buy based on what I had on paper without even checking to see if I could make the payments. All kinds of interest-only ARM instruments thrown at me.
Thank God I’m not gullible and don’t trust many people.
I got a nice little house on a stream within walking distance to a hospital and a shopping area and plenty of restaurants.
Houses up here in Orange County, NY are sitting empty and the ones on the market are staying there. There are people watching the value of their homes drop as their mortgage pymnts increase due to interest and increased local taxes.
Yes, a hard rain’s gonna fall, but on the wrong people.
montag @ 91
Cheney (i puke)
shot HIS FRIEND in the FACE!
(and he’s married to Lynne! (i puke again))
did NOT go to the hospital to see if his FRIEND was okay.
No Wonder he believes in torture of humans.
Cruelty to animals is 1/2 step away from doing the same to humans, including your own children.
And yes, I think we should have a draft starting with the upper end of the economic scale so we have good solid examples on how it’s done. That includes the Bushy and Cheney girlies. When they demonstrate their dedication to papy’s invasion foreign policy for freedom, others can follow slowly moving down the economic ladder.
Bet within a week we have new foreign policies, like talking instead of invading those you declare your enemy.
James at 92
Just that I’ve always thought there was a conspiracy to kill John Kennedy.
Hope your tests were good.
Eureka Springs @ 100
Oh, I fucked up and forgot to be scared. I’m sorry.
Thanks for reminding me.
If Mitt or Rudy become candidates, I hope that there treatment of animals becomes an issue. The hound dog at Mitt events is a good start.
Ari doesn’t mention who is supporting his little group- or how many of em are named “Scaife”.
rwcole @ 102
Kobe says “woof.”
Boston Globe had a nice: What he said he did vs what he did piece on Romney today here.
Jonathan @ 106
Speaking of animal testing and the JFK murder, Dr. Mary’s Monkey puts a whole new spin on things in a way that makes you stop and rethink your ideas. Very interesting and quite plausible.
There were a number of groups that hated JFK and the people who were involved in all of them were all influential in their own areas.
Unfortunately now that this little pissmire has had his chance to sanitize the records, we’ll never know what really happened.
But whenever I see Poppy Bush, I know who I’d like to pin the tail on.
retirin’ in five at 57 says in part-”Also, dropped fifteen hundred on cat Beaniehead (1987-2004) to prolong here last few days with some modicum of comfort.
I have nothing but revulsion for people who abuse animals.”
dropped 2500 dollars on the best cat in the world, 2 years old, heart problems……had just dropped a few hundred on him from a problem that came from eating amouse he couldn’t digest, then he got home and heaved and ho’d, took him to emergency in columbus, hour and a half away…….lasted a few weeks in kitty icu……had to put him down……funny thing is, he had the same heart ailment that my brother got, the vet was blown away when he was explaining it, and i said yeah, yeah,…..talked to nurses regularly and visited……they started a new thing from me, singing kitty-cat songs to the kitties in icu…….i would sing to him in kitty talk…..he liked it……so they did it for me…….and to the others…and they liked it, too…funny, huh?
this happened right when we (ex) had to move and were house shopping…2500 bucks……..ended up having the down payment to the penny…….was stupid spending the money at that time, but there was no choice in the matter…….
Jane
Snuffi’s been politically active ever since The Bush administration brought us the killer dog food controversy- she can’t abide goopers.
tejanarusa @ 81
Tonight is my semi-weekly cat visitation, where I get thoroughly cathaired and she gets thoroughly scritched and petted. I have cat-toys tonight also. This cat is twelve years old now, and still racing around.
Kobe You GO DAWGIE!
Smarter than all the pugs in the park!
And tell {{{{{{Jane}}}}}} she’s just tops!
You too, DMAC and Missus, are good souls.
Let’s not forget Senator Bill Frist, Cat Surgeon.
What is it with sociopaths and elected office?
James at 112
I used to think poppy bush was just a basically dishonest dufus (sp?).
My view of him has changed in recent times.
I think of him now as a dishonest, evil and fairly sick fuck.
Kobe,
Thanks for writing this. I have been astonished that the Mitt and Judy dog stories did not get more coverage. Informing and uniting the animal lovers among us is a must!
tejanarusa @ 93
Yeah. I’ll tell you how much they didn’t know a year ago. Close members of my family in the mortgage broker business (allowed to hiss now) repositioned their investments from real estate leaving just a token behind. Everyone else sank but they are doing just fine. Another form of insider trading. How did I end up the poor church mouse in my family? Honest, I guess. Money and sleaze are just too close.
PJ Evans — Our oldest cats, Marcus and Alibi, are 17 this year. The youngest, Kitsi, is 12.
I’ve started calling Marcus the Indestructible Cat.
You pretty much summed up why I am a vegetarian.
I think it is funny when pet owners get worked up over pet abuse, then sit themselves down to a hunk of flesh peeled off of styrofoam and burnt over fire.
I’m not the self righteous type, just the anti-hypocrite type.
How are pets any more valid than our food animals?
The atrocities committed against animals every day (in the name of cheap eats) are a million times worse than anything Michael Vick ever did.
So until people can stop being hypocrites in the food/pet issue, they should probably lay off the ignorant athlete.
What did that one dude say?
“He who has not committed a sin may cast the first stone”
Right. Right.
tejanarusa @ 93
While the exact timing may have been difficult to predict (I’ve been certain of this whole thing crashing for about four years now), anyone who insists (or insisted) that this could NOT or WOULD NOT happen is simply delusional. The asking prices on houses has been absolutely crazy and the concommitant insanity in loans to just be able to buy at these crazy prices equally batshit insane.
Maybe a bit of a fun ride if you get out in time. Me, I ARM’d for a little bit, and then the moment I found a crazy low 30yr fix, I jumped on it. My friends said I should keep refinancing (this was two years ago) and I said NO WAY.
Bah.
Jonathan @ 120
I strongly suspect they follow one rule, and one only: protect their own.
Jane Hamsher @ 64
Ut oh. I suspect Kobe’s best efforts are going to be ruined by McCaffrey the MilleniaLab, who is very much looking forward to some wrestling and swearing with Lucy this weekend.
retirin’ in five @ 9
That’s the way!
Terrific post, Kobe: thank you.
I agree. Cruelty to dogs and cats and such is a primary early sign of sociopathy.
I cannot stand to hear of any mistreatment of animals. I admit to being in denial about our factory-oriented food chain.
Mitt and Rudy are socipaths as is dubya. It’s really disturbing. But hey *some* are only looking for “good” beer-drinking partners. I guess.
What we Really like about Animal Precinct is seeing the bad guys taken away in handcuffs.
OR
when our victims recover and get adopted by good owners.
Heart Warming!
also see : ASPCA’s site for the show.
Hopefully I read your facebook notes correctly.
Jane Hamsher @ 111
*belatedly realizes who kobe is..*
t4toby @ 123
We rationalize.
I have an 18 yr old cat who is doing great. Playing is just too much work these days with a little arthritis but she sure can move if she spots a moth. Of course, then she has to take a 4 hour nap after the excitement.
Snuffi (actually Schnuffi in full) and I really LIKE meat.
Tom in AZ @ 129
we are all pulling for you!
emptywheel @ 127
Woo Hoo! McCaffrey’s coming.
Adie @ 125
No, while they protect their own, there is a complete other agenda there and it’s driven home through groups like Skull & Bones and the other secret societies at Yale. These are people who are (tin foil ready) in touch with others in the world who belong to other chapters of their greedy little group and they are intent on enslaving the entire world.
While the wingnuts like to scream about the UN and one world govt, you don;t hear them condemning the WTO and it was Poppy who used the phrase “new world order” to describe his vision for the world.
Hitler liked that phrase too.
Jonathan @ 131
And we don’t visit any meatpacking plants. Or hog farms. Etc.
Of course, I’m a meat-eating pet owner too. AKA hypocrite.
Jonathan @ 131
Some Tibetan Buddhist Monks came to town a few years back and they loved Burger King.
Sounds like great fodder for a letter to the editor of the local rag. Since the Vick story continues to have legs this would be a great time to bring this up. It’s probably the only way it will get mentioned in the traditional media. Is there any way to get these people to pay attention to anything but their manly fantasies? The damn house could be burning down and they’d stay to see if some football team is going to make it on 4th and 1. Give. Me. A. Break.
and another thought on this-
in parts of the population, people only see what affects them FIRST…..one thing at a time myopia….
michael vick’s situation affects people NOW and more so in another month…….the other two are far off in the future and may not even affect them at all.
so they only care about what’s affecting them now……
Hello Kobe. Have you heard this joke?
A dog is sending a telegram with the message: “Woof! Woof! Woof! Woof!”. The telegram clerk says, “You know, for the same amount of money, you can fit one more ‘woof’ on there.” And the dog says, “But that wouldn’t make any sense at all!”
Jonathan @ 131
Forgive me…and tenderize.
HA!
This Blog has gone to the DOGS!!!
*g*
Michael Vick’s Jury
Jane -
Beautiful batch of dogs you’ve got; do the others write as well as Kobe?
There’s a guy here who hauls three labs around in his truck…..one black, one yellow, one choc. If we ever cross paths in person, I’m gonna ask if he just couldn’t decide which color he liked best. *g*
Adie @ 126
I wonder why Papa Bush and Bill Clinton have hit it off so well? That particular relationship has always puzzled me.
sadly when i see what people can do to their animals,
i think of our crisis of domestic violence in this country.
Waccamaw @ 146
Oh hey. When I had one of each color, it just happened that way, wasn’t planned. I got a LOT of people asking me that, too…
twolf1 @ 145
Perfect!!!
Jonathan @ 44
No luck yet.
SouthernDragon @ 139
I like football, you don’t, so what?
raven @ 20
(((raven)))
I have lost two wonderful cats to lengthy episodes of cancer. Too expensive too. Not sure I would spend the money again hoping for miracle cures … they don’t ask that.
Next person who says to me: “it’s only a cat” will be in serious trouble. These cats are the only dependable companions in my life. I would be done without them. As painful as losing them is.
Yup, it sure is confusing.
Waccamaw @ 145
Oh, not in the back of the truck. There are many people who think that is horrible!
Well, I do, for one.
Oh, wait a minute. I thought you were talking about Congress.
fdl reader @ 153
If a dogs life is 8 to 1 then we got Raven 16 more years. Would we do it again? I don’t know, he went through and awful lot but he was so brave and handled it with such dignity. We worked with out Vet and when there was no hope for recovery we killed him, put him down, to sleep. . .whatever.
Amy Goodman just cleaned some Goopers clock on Hardball re the Michelle Obama half quote.. Did anyone catch Barnacle reading a quote of Dukakis with a smarmy Homer Simpson tone all the way through the quote?
Tom in AZ @ 153
how far have we gotten?
have registration at Facebook, right?
so, have you registered with Word Press?
with the Meta box above on the right, right?
gotten the emailed-to-you password from WP?
Older cats? I’ve got Missy at 22 and Min at 19. Missy’s favourite activity is napping and Min, since she’s blind due to hyptertension, likes to lie in my lap and purr. She can’t watch the critters from her old perch in the window any more and that just breaks my heart.
peanutbutter -
Well, at least you had a multicolored collection of hair around all your baseboards. *g*
Had a friend with a black lab many years ago and always thought she never vacuumed her house. When I had Chamois (my yellow), I realized you could run the vac on the hour and *still* have lab hair to spare…….12 months a year.
BTW, I’m with Raven. If you can kill and clean an animal, I think you have the right to eat that animal.
And I’m sure there are many ways you could call me a hypocrite.
Oh, and BTW-
What will they do with the dogs?
Oddly enough, the only MSM to pick this up with much vigor was … FOX (living up their name for once?). Chris Wallace pursued Mitt on it after the Ames Straw Poll, saying that he had a lab and would never think of putting it on a car-roof, and that Mitt’s conduct was against Mass Law.
Mitt’s response didn’t concede an inch — his dog LIKED it, he sez, and he wasn’t aware of the law.
Completely ridiculous…
raven at 139 says-”Some Tibetan Buddhist Monks came to town a few years back and they loved Burger King.”
the gomang monks were here a few years back and they eat crap…..mixed in with the good stuff……
yeah, and they make a dumpling that they ADD oil to the meat…totally gross, but was good…the vegetarians got huffy and left……the coordinator told them that they were making their own traditional dishes. and basically to have some respect and shut the hell up…….they left……hypocrites.
i got to feed them their first day here…the day they started their medicine mandala…..my picture was on their website for a long time, helping people pinch the dumplings….
off to do a few things, take care pups, will check in later.
and i liked the truck video, thanks.
OT – Experts tie pigeon dung, bridge collapse
IrishJim @ 147
You have to read the history of Mena Airport and the gun and drug-running that went through there for the Contras. Clinton was governor and was supposedly alloted a portion of the rake-off from bonds issued by the Arkansas Development Corporation to look the other way and keep the state troopers away. It had nothing to do with Clinton bringing the drugs in like the wingnuts like to claim.
Felix Rodriguez was there, along with Luis Posada Carriles, Barry Seal, and other CIA people. Bush Attorney General William Barr was also present there.
Lots of things that happened in the 80s will never, ever see the light of day. Barry Seal, who was a pilot running drugs and guns, was a colleague of Oswald’s trained by David Ferrie in the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol. He flew in the Bay of Pigs, was part of Operation 40, a CIA assassination team along with Bernard Barker, Frank Sturgis, Porter Goss (yes, that Porter Goss), and he was finally gunned down outside a halfway house in Louisiana. When cops went through his wallet, they found Poppy Bush’s home phone number.
Clinton was North’s tool in Arkansas during Iran-Contra and is reward for cooperating was the White House in ‘92.
IrishJim @ 147
Big Dawg’s slummin’ & trollin’, & mebbe trying to teach the stoopid human a new trick so we can save this poor old world? (I can dream, can’t I?!)
Try comparing the 2 IQs involved there, heh.
FYI, New post
FWIW, my gut does best, taking into account exercise, with a lacto-vegetarian diet.
Yeah, I know. I need to give up milk products.
I could.
Soy products (tofu, etc.) are fine with me and provide complete protein.
New thread upstairs. And it seems to really be there. Honest! No crying wolf…
((((((dogs))))))
(((((((dog lovers))))))))
mr oddmommy and I are crazy too. One of our two dogs has an aggression problem and we are about to take her up to U Penn for the second time to have her psychoanalyzed. We’ve spent thousands of dollars too on these and our other dearly departed doggies (and one kitty).
I could wax eloquent on this subject forever, but suffice it to say that anyone who tries to excuse what Vick did in the name of hunting, meat eating or anything else belongs, together with Vick, in the Coliseum with the lions, imo. And I would gladly toss in Mitt-fuck and Judy Ghouli as well.
Jonathan @ 169
Rice Dream is very good and I make awesome blueberry-soy milk shakes.
Eureka Springs @ 32
Hoo boy. You got it. Beyond understanding. Totally shameful.
twolf1 @ 165
In that case, there are bridges where I live that are doomed for sure.
The two beings I miss most in the world are my Grandma and my cat.
Adie @ 167
You might be on to something. I could never understand how someone as dynamic, smart and charismatic as BC would enjoy interacting with a stick in the mud like Papa Bush.
To those of you who seem to think that spending a lot of money on your pets’ health care makes you better than the rest of us, how did you factor in:
1) The amount of suffering your pet would endure during the treatment, and
2) The fact that your pet doesn’t understand the suffering, and might simply prefer to be euthanized?
fdl reader @154
Confusing it is. I love my cat dearly. But she gets to go outside, and the neighbouring wildlife, birds, mice, voles, the occasional pigeon if she gets lucky, suffer. By the way have you ever seen how many feathers there are on a pigeon?
No body better mess with my Molly Ann.
She is spoken to with respect and kindness so no one is allowed to yell at her. No pulling her Papillon ears which people seem to think are handles for them to stretch out until she screams. And, I don’t give her dog food from China.
I even make her toys. I bought a small plush toy from PetCo and five minutes after playing with it she screams and shakes her head. Next to her was a nasty small nail. What the h…? Off to PetCo I went, Molly Ann in one arm and their dismembered toy in the other with the nail in the palm of my hand. Now, the only toys she can have are the ones I make and she enjoys them. A ball works just fine.
It’s the attitude that animals are here for our pleasure and I guess human pleasure includes killing them, experimenting with them, pet the chicken before whacking her head off. Where did I go so wrong? Even as a child I was horrified with cruelty to animals and I lived in the heart of a city.
Remember those kids who would chase butterflies just to rip their wings off. They now are proud employees of Blackwater.
As a sweet aside, Molly Ann turned one year old yesterday. We celebrated. She got to drive the car on the parking lot. She standin my lap, front paws on the steering wheel turning, turning, turning. Great fun. It’s just me and her on the parking lot in the back.
t4toby @ 162
“If you can kill and clean an animal, I think you have the right to eat that animal.”
i’d say you have an obligation to have what you kill eaten.
otherwise, you’re killing for fun.
“I don’t like people who kill for fun”, as Manfred the mammoth says in Ice Age.
peanutbutter @ 131
That made me spew all over my keyboard!
It can be hard to keep up around here, especially if you have to take some time off and miss something/someone….
mc @ 70
(((mc)))
Does anyone know more about the rumors about young George Bush blowing up frogs?
This is a bit OT, but they are Congress Critters.
How many wrong things can be in one short paragraph?
These guys are as bad as the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief, they’ve been on holiday all month, they don’t do anything while they’re there other than cave into to Commander Codpiece and the Prince of Darkness.
And Wow, Petraeus and Crocker before the Senate on September 11, implied linkages anyone?
mc @ 70
mc -
I am so sorry for you and your wife. My heart aches reading this. I am sending kind loving thoughts to your sweet loving companion and family member.
raven @ 65
Raven, I can sooo relate. My handle was once the name of our beloved lab. A whopper of a lab that came in at 130 lbs. Smart as hell, and loved my grandchildren.
The only trouble was getting my hubby to realize that he was at the end of his life and needed to be put to sleep. He just couldn’t do it. He kept saying he isn’t in pain. One morning we saw him in the driveway and it was obvious that he was dead, just looking out the window. I was relieved. Said I was never going to have another dog, unless it was a small, easier to handle in the house, dog like a cocker.
So much for that idea. The kids decided to give their daddy a lab Christmas before last. They knew better than to give it to me as I had announced. I don’t want another dog!
What can I say, he’s a part of our family now.
Though, I don’t count myself among the vegetarians, I can’t imagine anyone being cruel to animals in the way Michael Vick obviously was. No brand name would now touch him with a ten foot pole. Were I the team owner, I would say good riddance, but that’s just me. Guess? He will play football again.
Eureka Springs @ 100
Fracking unbelievable. How in hell are we gonna stop all this utter crap.
As a vegan I can tell you how often i have felt demonized as a kook as best terrorist at worst for my stance on animal rights.
People like me extend our moral compasses to include animals, therefore we’re “fringe.”
John @ 177
I think anyone with even less than a dog sized brain, reading this thread, would get the facts that (1) this discussion has nothing to do with “being better” than anyone; and (2) the “choice” between treatment and euthanasia is never a simple one and always agonizing to a person who really loves an animal.
((((((mc))))))
Franco @95
I just don’t know where Ari’s parents went wrong? They are supposed to be Liberal Democrats. Can anyone shed light on this? It’s enough to give parents and grandparents heartburn.
Bright Creature @ 188
BC – There are a lot of people here with you who are also “fringe”. Does that make us mainstream on this site?
oddmommy @ 189
Oh, I have no answers, and I would spend less next time (quo buono), but I can well assure you that the cats I have known have had a desire to survive, live, and thrive that goes well beyond my own. My vet could not believe the ’schedule’ that my last cancer patient maintained (going out, hunting, attempting to eat) at the height of his illness.
I hope you didn’t see what I was saying as an excuse for Vick. I was merely pointing out that if pet owners really feel so strongly about the issue, they should examine their own behavior. But judging from the above quote, you are interested in nothing but demonizing Vick while giving yourself a pass on your meat habit.
If the vegetarian and pet owners got together on the issue, we’d have quite a voice. Unfortunately, people don’t like changing habits, so I won’t hold my breath.
QuakerGirl @ 191
I didn’t catch the earlier post on Ari’s parents but I can point out that just because I’m a liberal democrat it doesn’t mean that I don’t have “blindspots” of one such or another.
I love “Bend It Like Beckham” because in it you see this mother that has what she considers to be a “liberal” attitude toward “the gay people” – until she suspects her own daughter of being one.. -.-
Life is very much more complicated than simply saying “I’m liberal/conservative.”
PS. although, I do have liberal philosophies I have met a number of what I consider to be genuinely compassionate and moral conservatives. Just none of them get to run for elected office, apparently
QuakerGirl @ 192
rofl – maybe .. Finally, I’m part of the group!
t4toby @ 194
the comment was not directed at you personally. I understand and appreciate your point of view re meat eating. I was responding more to the talking heads and organizations whose “positions” were being discussed.
Actually I have a history on this subject…..I tried to be a vegetarian once, but got no support from family or friends. Long story.
And, on the other hand, if you are equating anyone who eats meat with someone who gets off on killing dogs, and making them kill each other…..then I DO have a major problem with what you are saying.
I’m a HUGE animal lover [i capture spiders and carry them outside] and also meat eater. I don’t see these as contradictory. Cherokee tradition teaches to have respect in one’s heart when killing an animal for food.
oddmommy @ 197
I’ve run into a number of people whose bodies require a certain amount of animal protein in order to stay healthy. So, yeah, there’s definitely a difference
“Romney-Vick ‘08.”
egregious @ 198
I do that too re spiders. And actually I really like spiders…..they are productive members of the community. Think Charlotte’s Web…….
Chetnolian @ 178
I hear you. I feed the local creatures and tell the cats that I am not impressed by their hunting. I hope it all balances out. I have taken a couple off the streets which had to benefit the bird population in the balance. They go through phases. Mostly mine seem to end up hunting less with a high quality diet. I tell them it’s their karma and not to bring anything in the house. Can’t live without the cats in the end, that’s just the way it is for me.
oddmommy @ 200
Spiders weave the web of life.
I can’t kill any creature anymore … in spite of a history of insect phobias.
Then I guess we have a small problem.
If you support Industrial Factory Farming, you are gaining pleasure (if just culinary) from the torturing and killing of an animal.
It can’t be sugar coated. If you get your meat at the supermarket, (you know, the kind saran wrapped to styrofoam?) then you support animal cruelty.
If you go out of your way to find and support free range, organic, family farms, then I guess you can say dog fighting is worse.
I hate the idea of dog fighting. I also hate the idea of the collective horror and torture that animals experience at the hands of glib meat eaters (if you put money towards it, then you support it).
What is the old saying?
If slaughterhouses had windows, no one would eat meat.
t4toby @ 203
fair enough. But, just for the record, according to your criteria, I do get to say dog fighting is worse.
Right on, oddmom.
No offense, I’m just a little worked up about the outrage when it involves pets, but crickets when it involves food.
Notice how most of the commenters dropped out of this thread?
C’mon, Kobe, don’t you have an opinion?
oddmommy wrote:
“I think anyone with even less than a dog sized brain, reading this thread, would get the facts that (1) this discussion has nothing to do with “being better” than anyone;…”
Really? Then why are some people bragging about the amount they spend on their sick pets? Why are others bragging about being vegan, which is just about pretending that caring about the animals that get eaten after death is the same thing as caring about all animals?
Why are so many ignoring the important issue in the post, which is that a pro football player is subject to more scrutiny than a presidential candidate? To that, I’d add another disgusting hypocrisy–that a pro football player’s abuse of dogs gets more press than the routine abuse of women by so many (male) pro athletes.
“… and (2) the “choice” between treatment and euthanasia is never a simple one and always agonizing to a person who really loves an animal.”
Exactly! Which is why bragging about the amount of money spent is so disconcerting. It suggests that this difficult choice was ever considered.
toby says-”Right on, oddmom.
No offense, I’m just a little worked up about the outrage when it involves pets, but crickets when it involves food.
Notice how most of the commenters dropped out of this thread?
C’mon, Kobe, don’t you have an opinion?”
people move on when there’s a new thread
and it’s easy being a vegetarian now, try being one back in the late 70’s……..a lot of people came before you for animal rights, toby, and to be honest, i hate that all of the work i did FOR YEARS ends up being taken up by a snotty, holier-than-thou pontificator……….
no offense you just get a little worked up???????????
bullshit, it’s no way to treat people, and no way to educate………you act like you’re the first one to fight this fight–NEWS ALERT, noooooo, been going on for years now………kirk murphy is one commenter here up on the food fight—he has NEVER been offensive, is informative………
but you get a pass because it works you up??????? nope.
stuff it in your cauliflower ear.
people need to make their own conscious choices, each of us, what you choose is yours…what i chose to do for years was mine…..want to fight the fda? write a letter cuz you aren’t going to get anyone to join you by insulting them, and you sure aren’t gonna convince me to do anything by insulting people. good luck, looks like you’ll be fighting on your own.
jeez…let’s just get one thing straight……nobody’s “bragging” about the money they spent on their sick pets. I, and I believe others, were reacting to the very common — and, to some of us, very wrong –perception that animals are not “worth” that much.
john at 207-”
oddmommy wrote:
“I think anyone with even less than a dog sized brain, reading this thread, would get the facts that (1) this discussion has nothing to do with “being better” than anyone;…”
Really? Then why are some people bragging about the amount they spend on their sick pets? Why are others bragging about being vegan, which is just about pretending that caring about the animals that get eaten after death is the same thing as caring about all animals?
Why are so many ignoring the important issue in the post, which is that a pro football player is subject to more scrutiny than a presidential candidate? To that, I’d add another disgusting hypocrisy–that a pro football player’s abuse of dogs gets more press than the routine abuse of women by so many (male) pro athletes.
“… and (2) the “choice” between treatment and euthanasia is never a simple one and always agonizing to a person who really loves an animal.”
Exactly! Which is why bragging about the amount of money spent is so disconcerting. It suggests that this difficult choice was ever considered.”
i don’t think you read the whole thread……just selected ‘quips’.
i commented a few times on why vick got more attention……
i also commented on how much it cost to treat my ill animal, and that i never thought twice about it…..even though it endangered getting a house….i didn’t know the amount until after we had to put him to sleep…and had to travel and hour and a half for the care, no emergency vets around here..and with a husband i was soon to divorce………i wouldn’t call that bragging, i think people were trying to say in terms that people would understand how much they value their animals, enough to put their money where there mouth is……….
and your comment sounds overly emotional, makes me wonder why.
i am not addressing the vegan issue, i already did that in another comment.
Wow, dmac, you thought I was being offensive and pontificating?
You should see me when I really get worked up.
(I guess I missed where I was offensive.)
But in all seriousness, I generally keep quiet on this issue. In fact, 99% of the time, I say nothing. I was just dumbstruck by the hypocrisy, that’s all.
BTW- Which do you think will accomplish more? Appealing to a pet owner’s innate love for animals, or writing a letter to ANYONE, ANYWHERE in our government?
We’re obviously on the same team. I’ll take your comment as a, “Tone it down a little, Hoss” sort of chiding, and leave it at that.
t4toby @ 204
(1) Welcome to the imperfect world, the only one we have.
(2) MrEgr actually worked in a slaughterhouse thank you very much and I know exactly what goes on there. I still eat meat.
(3) Please read Temple Grandin’s work about designing humane facilities for animals so they won’t be frightened.
(4) Everything in life does not fit neatly into categories. I used to think so in my 20’s, put people into boxes good or evil. Life is long and forgiveness of many kinds is necessary. We must agree to disagree on a great many things in order to fight against an overarching evil that may yet truly destroy our country.
With me in this fight?
dmac wrote:
“i don’t think you read the whole thread……just selected ‘quips’.”
I don’t think you read what I wrote. I wrote “so many,” not “all.”
“i also commented on how much it cost to treat my ill animal, and that i never thought twice about it…”
Exactly, and that’s the problem. No sign that you weighed the suffering caused by treatment against the suffering caused by euthanasia (zero). No sign that you treated the vets’ advice with any skepticism, given their obvious financial interests.
We had a 12 YO dog with a big neck tumor, and a vet wanted to put him on chemotherapy. Luckily, he was bitten by a spider, and the prednisone a different vet gave him for the bite made the tumor shrink, meaning that it was benign. He lived for 18 months after that on midrange doses of steroids, and we put him to sleep at home on the first day he clearly didn’t feel like getting up to pee, and wouldn’t eat. No transportation, nothing invasive.
“..even though it endangered getting a house…”
Bragging.
“…i didn’t know the amount until after we had to put him to sleep…”
If it wasn’t important, why mention it now?
“…and had to travel and hour and a half for the care,…”
Not pleasant for a sick animal.
“… no emergency vets around here..and with a husband i was soon to divorce………i wouldn’t call that bragging,…”
I would.
“i think people were trying to say in terms that people would understand how much they value their animals, enough to put their money where there mouth is……….”
Exactly. It’s about the animal’s value as a possession, not what the animal would want. That’s what is so offensive about it; it’s analogous to Vick tallying up the money he spent on his dogs as a defense against cruelty charges. In the end, it’s really about distinguishing yourself from other people.
toby at 211 says-”Wow, dmac, you thought I was being offensive and pontificating?
You should see me when I really get worked up.
(I guess I missed where I was offensive.)
But in all seriousness, I generally keep quiet on this issue. In fact, 99% of the time, I say nothing. I was just dumbstruck by the hypocrisy, that’s all.
=================
dmac
the first lesson, grasshopper, is that people don’t see that it is being a hypocrite…….countless reasons, but there it is……once you understand that, you battle will be on different terms……
===========
toby-
BTW- Which do you think will accomplish more? Appealing to a pet owner’s innate love for animals, or writing a letter to ANYONE, ANYWHERE in our government?
=========
dmac
both…….but mostly, by example, by kindness, by educating, informing, questioning, in a gentle way…….after all, you are asking people to be gentle in their food approach, so being aggressive kinda moots the point……
==========
toby
We’re obviously on the same team. I’ll take your comment as a, “Tone it down a little, Hoss” sort of chiding, and leave it at that.”
===========
dmac
know your audience, and the goal is always to inform…….plant the seed and watch it grow…….
around here, vegans help promote responsible, sustainable food resources, including meats…….everyone joins together in a common cause…….organic farmers, small farmers, meat producers, etc…….we all have different habits and routines, but all respect the other…….
always respect the right of someone to do what they do, but educate each other by example…….then the cultures blend, and ya never know when something will affect someone enough to make them step forward……..that’s how it happened for me years ago……
and never use your passions as an excuse to ’sound off’ or be aggressive…….cuz that is a lie when you do it…….you’re really just taking your anger out on another human being.
So now who’s bragging?
You took your dog to a vet you didn’t trust, and you magically were able to tell the exact time the dog — if he could speak — would have told you to disconnect the life support.
Most of us aren’t that lucky.
john at 213 says-”dmac wrote:
“i don’t think you read the whole thread……just selected ‘quips’.”
I don’t think you read what I wrote. I wrote “so many,” not “all.”
“i also commented on how much it cost to treat my ill animal, and that i never thought twice about it…”
Exactly, and that’s the problem. No sign that you weighed the suffering caused by treatment against the suffering caused by euthanasia (zero). No sign that you treated the vets’ advice with any skepticism, given their obvious financial interests.
================
no, it was treatable, he was bouncing back, but he gathered more fluids, so had to put him down………went on over two weeks.
=====================
We had a 12 YO dog with a big neck tumor, and a vet wanted to put him on chemotherapy. Luckily, he was bitten by a spider, and the prednisone a different vet gave him for the bite made the tumor shrink, meaning that it was benign. He lived for 18 months after that, and we put him to sleep at home on the first day he clearly didn’t feel like getting up to pee, and wouldn’t eat. No transportation, nothing invasive.
==========
that’s the time to do it then
i had two cats who i loved as well, and had to put them down when they had no quality of live anymore……..and our family dog growing up, same thing…….i know the choice……and when to make it
============
“..even though it endangered getting a house…”
Bragging.
=========
bullshit, i loved that cat. guess i was bragging about how much i loved that cat.
=========
“…i didn’t know the amount until after we had to put him to sleep…”
If it wasn’t important, why mention it now?
=========
geeeeeez, where the hell are you coming from?
as an example of how much an animal can mean, that i would have given him anything i had, and did…….same as a human…..
=========
“…and had to travel and hour and a half for the care,…”
Not pleasant for a sick animal.
==========
scuse me, we had to rush him to the emergency room at two in the morning, because there is no emergency services in seohio…….he travelled one way……..once…….
you sure have a burr…..up………
===========
“… no emergency vets around here..and with a husband i was soon to divorce………i wouldn’t call that bragging,…”
I would.
==========
well, you weren’t in the car.
==========
“i think people were trying to say in terms that people would understand how much they value their animals, enough to put their money where there mouth is……….”
Exactly. It’s about the animal’s value as a possession, not what the animal would want. That’s what is so offensive about it; it’s analogous to Vick tallying up the money he spent on his dogs as a defense against cruelty charges. In the end, it’s really about distinguishing yourself from other people.
===========
maybe for you.
————–
Kobe,
I would suggest you would be off to a good start if you bit Mitt, but I don’t recommend it. He probably hasn’t had his shots. He is sounding rabid.
toby at 211 says in part-”BTW- Which do you think will accomplish more? Appealing to a pet owner’s innate love for animals, or writing a letter to ANYONE, ANYWHERE in our government?”
what got me, was growing up, i noticed how the cows always noticed humans, i used to bring this up constantly in my family, most often in the car…told my family how the cows were like us…drove them nutty with it…….
a few years ago, lived next to a cattle farm……..at first, i knew every cow, then realized they disappeared……then had to listen to the calves when they were separated from their mothers…….wailed all night long……..i quit looking over there except to glance, caused to much pain.
each person has their own experience, but you can tap into some experience with animals or nature with almost everyone……but that doesn’t mean they’re going to stop eating meat……
you can talk about sustainability, but that doesn’t mean everyone will contribute to it.
you can talk about meat production and practices, but that doesn’t mean everyone is going to care…….
i went to the fair one year with a friend to see her grandson show his chickens…the fair that year was dedicated to her husband who had just passed…her grandson, who i know, informed me that they are raised to be deformed, can’t even stand on their feet because of their weight, bred to have bigger breasts than their feet can support…….grossed me out, i said thanks a lot……..
and yet, knowing what i know, i eat a little meat, not often, but i do….was a vegetarian for years, because i just don’t like meat……and believe me, being a vegetarian in the late 70’s and early eighties was not an easy feat…….
a lot of my friends are pure foods people…..i lean that way.
so, you do what you can in your own world to make responsible choices that you can live with……
inform people without pressure or ulterior motives and use true facts.
and write letters……
Valid points, all.
I’ll vary my approach.
(BTW- I heart Jane.)
If you’re against animal testing, then you certainly won’t want to benefit from animal testing. Don’t take aspirin, don’t visit a hospital. Stick to homeopathic remedies.
Hey, thanks for your thoughts, and hugs. We’ll need ‘em.
Millineryman @ 18
He needs a staple diet of such visits!
I don’t view this as a vegetarian issue or as a “medical testing” issue. Its an issue of cruelty and relative value.
One can be a meat-eater and appalled at inefficient, tortuous killing of animals. What Vick did is incomprehensible to me, and indicates a level of psycho-pathology in an adult that should have learned from childhood that reveling and deriving pleasure from the extended suffering of animals is wrong.
Judy Giuliani’s acts illuminate precisely what is WRONG with the medical supplier establishment. This wasn’t “medical research”…that had been done long before. Her demonstrations were unnecessary and not a little sadistic. She could have easily have obtained a video of the original research and shown the efficacy of her companies “staples” rather than repeatedly causing scores of dogs to undergo such treatment. Scientists that use animals for research don’t use animals unnecessarily in their research, and they certainly don’t cause unnecessary pain. Judy’s “procedures” seem to be way over the top in both those arenas.
And Romney? Did this guy not have any common sense? You don’t put a dog in a container on top of a car…or did he take it that “Carry-All” meant you could put anything up there…even the wife and kids?
Not sure if such a guys qualified for office if he can’t see that such an act would cause serious trauma to his pet.
Now, I’m not one to defend Bush very often. But at least his childhood prank of using firecrackers on toads…while wrong…was done when he was a boy. And the moral compass takes a while to be fixed in children. Good parents tell kids not to do such things like carry dogs by the ears, or to tease pets incessantly, etc. Good parents use these as teaching moments to help instill a sense of ethics and empathy with other living things. Usually the kid sheds some tears realizing that Mom and Dad DISAPPROVE (that’s how they learn that society will DISAPPROVE of things that they do, and they have to THINK about their actions).
Vick, Judy and Mitt….and Dubya and Cheney’s torture of individuals simply to wean information from them…or drive them crazy into compliance (see Jose Padilla) suggest something went VERY WRONG with their upbringing.
Bright Creature @ 199
In fact, there’s good evidence that pregnant women should obtain certain animal-originated amino acids in order for their children to have proper neurological development.
In most cultures, though, adults can obtain appropriate alternatives to meat protein…though it gets progressively harder if one cuts out eggs, milk, and other secondary animal products. But when neural development is occurring the need for animal proteins appears critical to humans. It’s been a part of our lineage since Homo habilis (the first hominid that evidenced neural expansion) began scavenging meat some 2.5 million years ago. And all other primates do obtain some animal protein…even if its just a few termites, ants or an occasional birds egg.
I just sent this link to NAACP.
If I was wrong to do that just use my email addy to send me a message chewing me out.