Woolsey, Reul Marc Gerecht, John Bolton, Micheal “faster please” Ledeen, Bill Kristol, Cheney, Richard Perle, etc etc. have been allowed to endlessly repeat unsubstantiated claims about Iran for the last four years all over the MSM, most of their claims about Iran have gone unchallenged.

Some of these liars are the same folks who were part and parcel to taking Valerie Plame/Wilson out. (you know take out the CIA agent who is attempting to gather information about “alleged” WMD’s in Iraq and Iran. These war pushers/ and some defense contractors are traitors to U.S. National Security.

Some polls report that 70% of Americans believe that Iran posesses WMD’s.

Neocon Deja Vu..doo.

I have no particular interest in feeding trolls, but this is a classic example of binary and polarized thinking which we really need to get past:

if you don’t WIN a war, isn’t that the same as LOSING it?

No.

Well his logic would explain why the 1992 Cheney statement that “Invading Iraq would create a major quagmire” was buried deep out of the conciousness of the rightwing.

Cheney was a “loser”! The soldiers who fought the first Gulf War “lost”! Bush Sr. “lost” against Saddam Hussein!

What this suggests is that any War that doesn’t result in utter annihilation of the enemy is a “loss”…no peace treaties or reaching diplomatic conclusions is allowed for these extremists!

They themselves say they have nukes.

No they haven’t. They have said just the opposite…that they only intend to develop enough feul to supply nuclear reactors for peaceful usages.

And despite their being signatories of the anti-profileration treaties refuse to adhere to the IEAA. So yes, I would support military action against Iran to prevent them from using them against us or Israel; Israel did it to Iraq in 1982 and can do so again.

Are you even aware what the Non-Proliferation Treaty states?

Non-Proliferation Treaty: Article IV.

Any signatory has “an inalienable right to develop, research, produce, and use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes,” and to acquire technology to this effect from fellow-signatories.

That’s why the Russians and Europeans are able to supply nuclear technology with Iran…and why we would be much better off if we worked out arrangements to provide the Iranians with cold-water reactors that don’t produce fissible nuclear fuel…actions which the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress for years repeatedly blocked (ditto for North Korea).

These guys have sh*t for brains!

burnspbesq @ 112

What the heck? I’ll bite.

OK, Lee, let’s start at the beginning.

How would you define “victory” in Iraq? And is your current definition different that the definition you subscribed to in March 2003? If so, why has it changed?

Victory in Iraq is elimination of Islamo-Fascist terrorist funding or support from the national territory of Iraq; creation of a state which can coexist and not be a threat to its neighbours;…capable of assisting the US in establishing presences to stop other terrorists from territories near its territories (Iran and Syria). The WMDs were a critical argument going in. Unlike the official position, I still believe they were there and hidden in Syria.

You have just shown that you want Iraq to participate in attacks on Syria and Iran…while you say that you want a state that isn’t involved in threatening its neibors. Which is it?

And if you think that the Iraqi Shiites will allow their territory to serve as a base to attack Iran…you are daft. I’d suggest that you recall what Saddam had to do to forcibly induct young Iraqis to fight in that madness of a war during the 1980’s! They quite simply won’t follow any American Neo-Cons wet dream like this…in fact you are likely to see Iraq become a source of active slaughter of the US Forces by a now largely quiescent SCIRI militia (the Badr Brigades).

Similarly, the Sunnis will not participate in any sort of invasion of Syria.

Lastly your assertion that Saddam sent his WMD’s to his rival…Syria…rather than using them against US forces is just silly. This is especially true after the Bush Administration has admitted that there was no documentation that Saddam had WMD’s or facilities to make them for any length of time after 1992. Saddam merely kept up the “ruse” because he was fearful of IRANIAN attack and a resurgent Shiite rebellion. The documents show his resistance to UN inspections was a ploy.

And the rightwing talking points about the movement of WMD’s to Syria were simply fabrications by Neo-Cons who had no access to anyone that actually would have had appropriate intelligence to support this point. It was a “fall back” defense as it became increasingly clear that no WMD’s would ever be found and that each and every “lab” or “storage area” was actually something else…utterly unrelated to WMD’s.

Is it not obvious that Iran is the second element of the Axis of Evil and needs at least to have their nukes removed?

And the myth of the “Axis of Evil” has been shredded as well…or are you saying that you have any sort of evidence that Saddam and Ayatollah Khameinei were good buddies? There is no similarity to the coalition of Japan, Germany and Italy. In fact, Bushes analogy with “why Iraq is like Japan” falls apart for just that very reason…it would be like after Pearl Harbor Bush decided to attack the Russians rather than Japan!

The people who put out such notions (along with “Islamo-Fascism”) are “Asses of Evil”!

If you talk to the Iranians in your restaurants who fled the Shah, you would know that most of the Iranians didn’t want the Islamo-Fascists controlling their country and want a return of the Royal Family and the pro-Western government that existed until Jimmy Carter sold them out.

“in YOUR restaurants????”

Most Iranians I know are not those folks parodied by John Belushi in the 1980’s…they are professionals who know that an attck on Iran by the US or Israel would be the worst thing ever for the folks who want to eliminate the heavy-handed clerics. It was precisely such rhetoric by the US and the fact that Ayatollah Khamenei was given no tangible benefits that he was unable to win over the people…the economic depression led to the election of Ahmadinejad. And the exile community knows this!

Furthermore, attacking Iran will trigger the slaughter of our troops in Iraq by the currently quiescent Badr Brigades of SCIRI. Why you should wish massive street riots and attacks by the major Shiite militia linked to the Iraqi regime is beyond fathoming. But the Iraqi’s of SCIRI will not stand to the side and allow the US to attack the nation that sheltered and trained them during the decades of Saddam’s rule.

fdl reader @ 204

Musharraf’s time as a benevolent dictator is up in January. He either has to change the country’s constitution so he can continue in his current role, call free elections and bow out, or make an alliance with Bhutto for elections and power-sharing.

Thank you!

You are very welcome! :-)

Is anyone going to participate in the General Strike on 9/11? Because I am if it looks like it will be widely observed.

I find it pretty interesting that the only couple of people who are advocating a cessation of work on this sacred day are people we have never seen here before. I intend to work my little heart out for the restoration of constitutional democracy then as every day. Take your wee strike elsewhere please.

On a more serious note, we do need to know how to answer the slander from jerks like LL

hmmm, here’s how I would put it…

“Hey LibertyLeeLee, why not climb up a rope of piss to the moon and call that Victory? Since we’re not supposed to worry about logistical impossibilities or fraudulent definitions of V.I.C.T.O.R.Y this is just as good as anything you or any other ditto-heads can come up with. Don’t let your Country down, Boy! And plant a flag while you are up there “

maybe not Serious enough. I’ll have to run it by David Broder.