To borrow the Administration’s favorite phrase, “no one could have predicted” that the Iraqi government whose job it is to use the “breathing room” supposedly produced by the surge to achieve political reconciliation among the warring Iraqi factions would be in such disarray that the Bush Administration would be working night and day to keep the al Maliki coalition from collapsing. But now even Bush himself is expressing “frustration” and dropping broad hints that if the Iraqis wish to remove and replace al Maliki, it’s entirely up to them.
On Monday, the Boston Globe’s Farah Stockman reported on frantic efforts by Secretary Rice, Ambassador Crocker and White House aide Meghan O’Sullivan to convince enough factions to hold the al Maliki government together. And they’ve mostly failed. So on Tuesday, President Bush was explaining to everyone how leadership crises are resolved in a democracy:
“The fundamental question is, will the government respond to the demands of the people,” the President said. “And if the government doesn’t . . . respond to the demands of the people, they will replace the government. That’s up to the Iraqis to make that decision, not American politicians.”
“The Iraqis will decide,” Bush insisted. “They have decided they want a constitution. They have elected members to their parliament and they will make the decisions just like democracies do.”
The wisdom of this advice is so self evident it caused Swopa to wonder if al Maliki would make an analogous suggestion to the American people, who also seem to be suffering under an unpopular, ineffective leader they’d like to dump.
Let’s face it. Americans are stuck with Bush/Cheney, because not enough Democrats believe in the Constitution. With impeachment off the table, our only hope is to trade Bush/Cheney to another country, and as Bush noted yesterday, it’s our right to get rid of him and his crowd. So I thought we could offer the Iraqis a trade: Bush/Cheney for al Maliki, with a VP to be named later. I’d throw in Hadley and Rice just to sweeten the deal, though I suspect they’d be sent to the minors. Our President is very frustrated that those contentious Iraqi factions seem incapable of dealing with each other in time of war, so maybe he could show them how he’s united America.
I realize we’d probably be getting the better deal, since al Maliki has, as far as I know, never started an aggressive war, and he would never start a war with Iran, whereas the Iraqis would be taking a risk with Cheney. I’d expect the Iraqis to give Dick a very thorough physical and mental examination before letting him play with their government. Another thing I like about al Maliki is that, unlike most of our own Senators and Presidential candidates, he believes the US should respect other countries’ sovereignty, especially Iraq’s, and he’s more than willing to talk to Iran and Syria, which would really annoy Joe Lieberman who was recently struck unbelievably dumb on the road to Damascus. So to get al Maliki I wouldn’t be adverse to throwing in some cash to help rebuild their country. If we brought the troops home, there’s about $10-12 billion a month in possible savings we could put on the negotiating table.
My guess is that with al Maliki as our President, we could probably repeal the Military Commissions Act and enact exanded SCHIP or even universal health care and start on global warming. Iraq could use Bush/Cheney to fight al Qaeda or do whatever they needed, and they would probably get that oil law passed.
Think I’m not serious? I suspect this idea is not any crazier than the imperialist ideas of those very serious people Glenn Greenwald keeps describing, and it’s definitely less crazy than what Digby found.
Update: Apparently rumors of the trade leaked out, and the White House is nixing the deal.
Photo: Bush in Quebec (AP PHOTO/CP, Adrian Wyld)
Related posts:
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- Changing of the Guard: US Troops Withdraw from Iraqi Cities; Maliki Declares “Sovereignty Day”
- Republicans Furious Bush/Cheney Didn’t Win Nobel War Prize
- Richard Clarke Reminds Cheney and Condi of Their Incompetence
- Laura Ingraham on “This Week”: Dick Cheney “Cuts Through” on Afghanistan Because “His Numbers Are Going Up”
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Zed!!!
I loved it!!! Great Post!!!
Good morning Scarecrow!
Caw, caw.
Love it! Let’s do an out of season trade. They’re all free agents, right?
Hey, the door was open.
scarecrow – brilliant! and selfishly, i love your idea… but haven’t we done enough damage to the people of iraq?
Bush has no value other than maybe a used puck bag.
Remember what they did to Diem
ahh Scarecrow, maybe you’ve got something here.
take our administration, please…
Can we trade Bush and Cheney for a handful of magic beans?
“The Iraqis will decide,” Bush insisted. “They have decided they want a constitution…”
And we’ve decided we want our constitution BACK. Dump the bum.
A guy walks into a bar and says to the bartender, “Gimme something cold and full of gin.”
The bartender opens a back door and calls for his wife.
Elliott @ 9 says
raven @ 8
Well, Nguyen Cao Ky was a flyboy, and George is a flyboy (well, more fly-by-night, now), so maybe there’s something to this….
montag @ 13
Yea, and the great savior, JFK gave the thumbs down.
democracy now! is reporting on today’s 80th anniversary of the execution of Sacco and Vanzetti.
seems especially important today with our current scapegoating of immigrants and those who dissent.
selise @ 15
so much has changed in those 80 years, and yet so little.
Does anyone here follow the FAA? Blakey is bolting.
let me add in this from Juan Cole
Raven,
beat me to it – that was the first thing that went whistling thru my mind, too.
selise @ 6
My guess is that the Iraqis have learned enough about democracy to figure out how to solve this problem. We seem to have forgotten.
cleter @ 10
Dates, they grow dates.
“Iraq is not Vietnam.” Who is the greatest liar at the Washington post? I nominate Michael Gerson, former speechwriter for Kommander Guy. This Chicken Hawk still catapults the propaganda every few days, in the Post without being challenged. Gerson conceals his own critical role, in promoting the Iraq “Chaos and Genocide”. There is his “mushroom Cloud”. There is the “sixteen words” Gerson kept, at the heart of the Plame case. Perhaps most important, is Gerson’s involvement in the Tillman coverup.
But give Gerson credit, he is a classic “Concern Troll”, pretending to care about the death and misery he helped create and he still defends. Gerson describes Iraqi refugees, but he does not admit that they were produced by an illegal military occupation. He ignores the failure to secure Iraq’s borders. He ignores that violence is only increasing. He ignores the hundreds of thousands of illegal weapons transfers to Iraq insurgents, allowed by Petraeus. Gerson still wants a perpetual Occupation, withdrawal of troops will make things worse-chaos and genocide.
I suspect Decider Guy will also be saying “precipitous and premature withdrawal” today at the VFW.
What is Gerson’s solution? The US should admit more Iraqi refugees. But Gerson admits one problem. “Homeland Security”, opposes this because the refugees may become terrorists. Why would Iraqis be so ungrateful? There is a place for the war criminal Gerson at the Hague.
_____________________________
About 2 million Iraqis have been displaced within Iraq by sectarian violence and contagious fear; another 2 million have fled the country for Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and beyond. According to the United Nations, a steady flow of new refugees continues at about 50,000 each month…
The eventual danger is clear: As some Palestinians have demonstrated, refugee populations can marinate in their grievances, succumb to radicalism and trigger broader conflict…
A precipitous American withdrawal from Iraq could make a miserable problem significantly worse…
But the credibility of one of the Bush administration’s central arguments-that America should not abandon Iraqis to chaos and genocide by leaving prematurely- would be strengthened if America showed its commitment to displaced Iraqis now. Helping Iraqi refugees on a larger scale is not an embarrassing necessity…
These Iraqis are being admitted in a trickle-about 200 in the first half of this year-largely because of terrorism concerns at the Department of Homeland Security…
When it comes to refugees, Iraq is not Vietnam…
Can the Iraqi “democracy” vote the US troops out of Iraq?
I doubt it.
I mean what kind of democracy is that?
Scarecrow @ 20
yes. :(
Anyone here from California — remember the editorial cartoonist who ran the series on General Who Dat Don Der during the Viet Nam War. And every six months he’d have to create a new character, because we kept causing military coups and replacing the latest guy who was going to save democracy.
nice thread scarecrow, I especially love the your referance;
hard to believe the president would have the nerve to say that
yet here we are…we don’t have to replace the government, just the criminals that have brought it to near ruin
then we can restore the once proud beacon of democracy
gbear @ 11
And did you notice also that he said
“I think there’s a certain level of frustration with the leadership in general, inability to work — come together to get, for example, an oil revenue law passed or provincial elections.”
It is all about the oil!
raven @ 8
So we are repeating history Malaki is the new Diem. Bush comparing the war in Iraq with Vietnam shows that he at least hasn’t learned from history.
But in what world does comparing Iraq to Vietnam seem like a good idea?
Bush is setting us up for another Friedman Unit, if Maliki is swapped for another leader, how much longer will we be asked to wait & see how the “new” Iraqi government is progressing.
angry_cyclone @ 27
It was originally called “Operation Iraqi Liberation” = O.I.L.
Karl Rove made them change the name.
Me3 at 30
Didn’t know that. Typical.
things come undone @ 28
If anything, I think things worked better in Vietnam in many areas.
Bush knows nothing about history or he would not mimic Hitler so often.
Great Post Scarecrow. Can we give them Rove too? I think he should be in charge of Iraqi Consensus building.
I clicked through on the Digby article. I must say, the article Digby has found gives a whole new meaning to WingNuttery. Wow.
angry_cyclone @ 27
If Bush invites a coup because he is not happy about oil laws not being passed then Bush is mocking the idea that Iraq is a sovereign nation capable of signing oil contracts.
If Iraq is not sovereign Bush is still responsible for providing, or not providing law and order. If the Iraqi government whom we still control tortures people with our knowledge then Bush is responsible. Assuming of course he can’t find a patsy to be the fall guy.
Bush needs the illusion of Iraq as sovereign both for oil contracts, and to deflect blame inviting an iraqi coup hurts him in this area.
Without providing Bush with any guarantee of him getting what he wants, Arrgh! this is so amatuer hour diplomacy.
IrishJim @ 33
We’d have to pay them more to take Rove, and we’ve only got $12 billion/month to work with.
Iraqi PM lashes out at U.S. critics
Me3 @ 36
Not only can they, they already HAVE….
Can we Trade Bush/Cheney for al Maliki?
A trade worthy of Dan Snyder, owner of the Redskins. Maybe a better choice would be Al Davis of the Raiders, who is famous for bringing in morally-challenged, semi-washed up “talent”.
But in general, the proposal is for a Bush-league trade, nobody gets viable talent, no future, no up-side.
Somebody’s got to throw in some draft choices – any nominees? (I’m assuming Chalabi is a throw-in with Bush/Cheney)…
things come undone @ 28
I think it’s part of an overall strategerie. They basicially won the last election by hammering Kerry on his stance on Vietnam. By making these comparisons it assures us that the Democrat nominee will have to play it safe. . .gee Hillary.
jayt @ 38
Condi’s shoe collection must be worth something.
You’ve swallowed the hook, line, and sinker of the Bush admin’s propaganda wherein the failure in Iraq is to be pinned on al-Maliki.
Your POV is so AMERICAN and completely fails to take into account the Iraqi Parliament’s POV.
Only the ignorant would expect that the Iraqi Parliament would enact American directives.
That phrase demonstrates a total lack of awareness about the history and the nature of the men making up the UAI which is largely comprised of two parties, namely al-Dawa and the Supreme Council for the Islamic revolution in Iraq (now SIIC).
That phrase demonstrates a total lack of awareness of the hard and indisputable fact that during the twenty plus years prior to the deposing of Saddam Hussein al-Maliki, al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, et al fought with financial, military, etc support from Iran and Syria to Islamicize Iraq.
That phrase demonstrates a total lack of awareness of the hard and indisputable fact that what we see in Iraq is well over TWENTY YEARS in the making.
Such disarray?
Wrong!!!
Iraq: Bush’s Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
[snip]
Real power in Shiite Iraq rests, however, with two religious parties: Abdel Aziz al-Hakim’s Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Dawa (”Call,” in English) of Iraq’s Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari. Of the two, SCIRI is the more pro-Iranian.
[snip]
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq’s relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not “of the book,” such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
This program is not just theoretical. Since Saddam’s fall, Shiite religious parties have had de facto control over Iraq’s southern cities. There Iranian-style religious police enforce a conservative Islamic code, including dress codes and bans on alcohol and other non-Islamic behavior. In most cases, the religious authorities govern—and legislate—without authority from Baghdad, and certainly without any reference to the freedoms incorporated in Iraq’s American-written interim constitution—the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL).
[Keywords: Iraq, Islamic fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalism, Shiite fundamentalists, Al Sadr, Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, SCIRI, Al Dawa, Death Squads]
“If we brought the troops home, there’s about $10-12 billion a month in possible savings we could put on the negotiating table.”
$10-$12 billion per month. Health care, schools, research for cures to diseases, mass transit, roads and bridges, solvency for social security…
Raven@39 Your right Bush is ignoring us and playing directly to Hilary’s fears unfortantly Hilary’s view seems to be the Democratic Party line.
Scarecrow @ 40
What about Jenna’s fiancé?
What about Jenna’s fiancé?
Heck – just throw in Jenna. She’s knocked-up, apparently, so that’s a two-fer. Jenna is a cipher, but there may be some talent in that Bush-legacy-in-the-oven.
Spring training with Babs would have to be stipulated, of course.
things come undone @ 43
Even the Democrats are not stupid enough to not realize they have been painted into a corner. I think most people and certainly most Vietnam vets think that we could have and should have stayed until the bitter end. This is despite the fact that it is clear that the geniuses in the Johnson Administration Fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and knew as early as 65 that we probably wouldn’t succeed.
I think I need that FDL pep talk about “not giving up”. The more things change the more they stay the same.
raven @ 44
Y’know – we should offer up the DOJ appointees – Gonzales for a start, and then just offer up all of the major cabinet secs and their chief appointees – send em the whole A team and the farm teams. That would be a twofer for them and for us.
Again, the Iraqi Parliament is in disarray from the American POV.
But from the POV of the UAI, it is functioning as it has been designed.
You are failing to take into account the history of men such as Al-Maliki who was basically pissed on by the US back when the US was supporting Saddam Hussein, i.e. back when SH was gassing `rebels’ who, along with al-Maliki, fought to depose SH.
Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, et al designs on Iraq are being carried out.
The US is fuct and being used.
Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, Bayan Jabr, et al are killing the US with a death of a thousand cuts.
Eg:
Bush warns Iraq on chemical arms U.S. fears use of weapons against rebels. Chicago Tribune. March 10, 1991 [snip]
Jawad al-Maliki of the Dawa Party said in Damascus, Syria, that mustard gas was used against protesters in al-Haleh, al-Kifil, Najaf and some areas of Basra, in southeastern Iraq.
Precisely what is going on inside Iraq is difficult to determine since Western reporters have been expelled. Most information is coming from
refugees and opposition leaders in Iran and Syria.
Defense Secretary Dick Cheney described the situation as “volatile” but said it appears Hussein will be able to keep the unrest in check for now. The Iraqi leader is using his loyal Republican Guard to quell the
rebellion.
Kindlingstick — you seem to be having an argument with someone else about some other post. Nothing I said expresses the view that “the failure in Iraq should be pinned on al Maliki.”
Kindlingstick @ 41:
WOW! It would behoove more Americans to read (and comprehend) your comment.
raven—
Don’t give up!! We all need you here with us.
jim oconnor @ 41
Yes! We can afford Healthcare nomatter what that liar Bush says! Rather it is a question of do we want to? Or do we want to keep fighting in Iraq? We need to push this talking point now while Bush is shoveling money at banks.
Bush is weak and we need to take advantage of it instead of praising the Surge for working.
Oh, this is too funny.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars is holding their convention here in KC this week. Clinton, McCain, Obama, and Thompson have all addressed the crowd on Monday and Tuesday, and Bush flew in last night to be able to speak this morning.
The KC Star leads their story of his 9PM arrival like this:
More than twenty? Goodness!
I wonder how big a crowd al-Maliki would have drawn.
Heh. Thanks for the morning chuckle…
And yet another Trex story!
That’s Trex, you can’t out run him. The fastest blogger in the world!
The difference is, al Maliki was elected. Bush was selected.
N=1 @ 17
I use to work at the FAA. The “personnel reform” initiated under Clinton gutted a number of Civil Service protections for employees and their representatives. Blakey’s term is coming due and Bush will appoint another hack for the next five years.
Blakey’s just doing the Bush shuffle, where administrators who have effectively coddled the industries they were supposed to regulate are rewarded with a wingnut welfare position.
I have an idea. Let’s give Bush, His Brain and His Freakin’ Cheney Behind to Bush’s Base. Give them some thoroughly Red Bush Territory and let them SECEDE.
egregious @ 51
thx EG!
MayDaze @ 57
But now, wingnut welfare means being part of the Bush administration.
That’s Trex, you can’t out run him. The fastest blogger in the world!
So, theoretically, T-Rex can catch a professional footballer. But then what would he do with him?
Don’t answer that.
From the LA Times:Praise the Lord and Pass the … .
Thanks for pointing out that Digby article. Geez.
Anywhere Bandar’s money goes Cheney is soon to follow
Mr. Nourizadeh reminds that the Saudis initially welcomed the changes in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. However, they gradually grew concerned about the “amount of Iranian involvement” in the Shi’a-led Iraqi government. He says the Saudis don’t want a neighbor that might call for an “uprising” by Saudi Arabia’s large Shi’a minority. So, unless Prime Minister al-Malaki can convince them he “genuinely wants to fight the militias,” Mr. Nourizadeh says he doubts “any support” will be forthcoming from Riyadh. In fact, last week The New York Times reported that officials in Washington say the Saudis have offered financial support to Sunni militant groups in Iraq and that about 40 percent of the foreign fighters in Iraq are Saudi. But Riyadh has denied the accusation.Junya referring to Vietnam as “the” model for Iraq is jest so, so ironic.
Like how we should never been in there in the first place.
Like how we supported a never-ending string of corrupt self-serving incompetents.
Like how the boot-licking, toady-types in the military rose to the top like a turds in a toilet.
Like how we had no good options so we kept diggin’ the hole deeper.
Like how we went down to ignominious defeat.
Like how it broke our military for over a generation.
The poor boy can’t hep hisself. When there’s somethin’ stupid to be said, Junya be sayin’ it.
Just mentioned on Stephanie Miller: Rove quit because Jeff Gannon was about to out him. hmmm, gain of salt, but also interesting in light of the Mitch (Midge) McConnell private’s privates thing brought up here yesterday.
And, we are too polite to mention it here but it appears that Jenna’s marriage is a shotgun affair. Seems as if the abstinence only, ringy thingy thing didn’ work in this case.
Great “moral” modeling all around. No problem by me, but then don’t preach one way and shut off funding for birth control.
jayt @ 61
Depends on how cute he is!
14 more g.i.’s gone
Things are completely out of control in Iraq. This scares everybody in the Washington mix, Rethugs and Dems alike. We simply don’t know what is going to happen. Another copter down today 14 more dead. So much for the surge, which I’m sure nobody ever took seriously apart from maybe Bush, who’s stupid enough to think it might. Brits holed up in Basra trying to get enough space to pull out without losing any more men.
I think what is paralyzing the Dems is that they see the disaster coming down — the one that unlike the disaster of going in, everyone and his uncle is going to see. They are truly paralyzed. Some are in denial and think there is still some bacon out there that can be saved. Some are afraid that they will be blamed — the dolchstoss — fear perhaps well taken, as Bush is revving it up again.
What we are seeing is the end result of bad decisions by the executive and pusillaminous opposition from Democrats. It’s not just the Iraqi government that’s in disarray, it’s our own government.
This is going to end very badly.
MayDaze @ 57:
Isn’t it interesting that these appointees simply walk out the gummint door one day and walk in through the lobbyists’ door the next?
I wrote about John Agwunobi doing that, and it’s been fun to watch the hits rolling in from the NIH, the CDC, the FDA, the USDA, HHS and Wal-Mart – his new pimp. I can only hope that Blakey’s transition from one pimp to another is as closely watched.
Richmond @ 66
Who brought up the Rove thing?
jayt @ 45
Jenna’s fiancé won the lottery. He’s a member of the American Royal Family now. As we all know, they do not serve.
If Jenna’s pregnant, it must be because she is carrying one of the snowflake babies that her father cares about so much. A highly moral man like her father would not raise a daughter who would engage in sex outside of marriage.
Boston1775@58:
That’s an amusing picture…their own wingnut territory. I would bet it wouldn’t take long for them all to tear each other to shreds.
petwrecker @ 67
14 more g.i.’s gone
56 U.S. soldiers dead since Congress went on vacation.
edit: (in Iraq – doesn’t include Afghanistan)
Mad Dogs @ 65
Like how no one from the Bush family is willing to serve there.
raven @ 45
Perfect most people and most vets think we could have won! But Johnson’s generals like Bush’s were fools, we never had enough troops in Vietnam/Iraq to really do the job. We did halfass projects to win hearts and minds but then we blew it by killing civilians.
If we were wining in Iraq or Vietnam does anyone really think there would have been an antiwar movment?
How can you blame antiwar movments for ending wars if we only have serious antiwar movements in this country after its obvious that we are not going to win?
Sure America could have won VietNam and Iraq but after how many years of fighting does “could have” become Johnson/Bush LOST THE WAR.
Scarecrow:
How about we swap the Democrats for Al-Maliki and his people? You neglected to point out Carl Levin’s shamelessly hypocritical meddling the other day. Hillary Clinton was rightly booed for similarly blaming the Iraqis for our occupation; he deserves it, too. It’s probably good to remind people that the Democratic candidates are going to follow this lead and produce Iraq “plans” that amount to switching puppets.
Haven’t read the whole thing, yet, but this Bob Barr column in today’s Atlanta Journal-Constitution sounds a lot like stuff said here at FDL.
Congress trashes your privacy
ironranger @ 73
They can build a huge fence around themselves, arm it to the teeth and listen to Bill O’Reilly all day.
Mad Dogs @ 65
He has a pattern modeling our foreign policy after failed imperial ventures of the past — he is publicly known to have read Alistair Horne’s account of the French defeat in Algeria. He fancies himself a man of more resolve than Lyndon Johnson or Charles de Gaulle.
Richmond @ 66
I don’t put myself above gossip and rumor-mongering, so could you provide links?
N=1 @ 70
If they really wanted to fix things in DC, two items would go a long way:
1. Public financing of elections
2. Lifetime ban on working as a lobbyist.
Of course, to get around #2, they’d employ the spouses. Not sure what to do about that.
myiq2xu @ 56
I drove wingnuts crazy (redundant?) for a while back in ‘00 by constantly referring to him as the president-select, and then “our selected president…” Heh. Bah.
things come undone @ 76
I have a feeling that raven is going to rebut you with a vengeance, but I’ll wade in to take issue with a couple points. This seems a pretty naive synopsis of our presence in Vietnam. We didn’t “blow it” by killing civilians: We weren’t trying to protect South Vietnam from North Vietnam — we were trying to conquer South Vietnam, the civilians of which were opposed to us. Killing civilians was the policy.
Also, it wasn’t our losing that generated resistance to the war, it was the draft, which aside from the casualties, acquainted millions of Americans with the nature of the war.
More wisdom from the Scarecrow upstairs in his new thread.
The Surge Is Working Because We Say It Is
brendan @ 81
Wonkette’s got the pics and the speculation. Me, I think the jury’s out on whether it’s a little one or a tad too many beers and chips, but we’ll certainly know one way or another in a few months. Oh, unless they take advantage of something else moral, upright, wingnuts never do, but then why marry her off?
I have to admit, it would be deliciously ironic if al-Maliki would give a speech calling for Bush’s ouster. He could throw in a few jabs about the Congress taking August off, too.
Digby’s server seems to be down. What was it digby found?
arg!!! – i am getting incredibly frustrated about what our current prez is doing/not doing, and what our future choices are. after some rumblings about impeachment a few weeks ago, that has all fizzled out. we are talking here about DEMOCRACY – right? about the rule BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. so it seems way past time for a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. what say the, folks here who know what is really going on and are smart enough and organized enough (and gosh darn it, people like you!)?
i swear, i don’t see any other solution to the mess this country is in right now, and the disaster we are perpetrating in the middle east. if someone doesn’t make a move to outflank the political machinery, then we are stuck in the orwellian nighnmare, and i, at least, just don’t think i can take it anymore.
Now if we are gonna talk serious trade– This could become the newest parlor game!
lets see- al-maliki for bush, darth vader and Oh i would throw in Condi!
brendan @ 77
I had a paragraph on Levin and Clinton, but took it out during editing, leaving only the link to the WaPo story.
JF @ 71
Radio jock, Stephanie Miller on her program, said it is rumor, but is circulating. As I said, Grain of Salt. But Gannon, also has to be thinking about his future income (a la Tony Snow and KKKarl Rove). He would make a fortune with a tell all book.
Lindy @ 88
A wingnut/neocon article arguing we should have just nuked those unruly Arabs until they gave up. I kid you not.
MayDaze @ 82
A Constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a non-lobbyist man and a non-lobbyist woman *g* Sorry – I couldn’t resist.
N=1 @ 94
I think we should work pre-marital celebate in there somewhere.
brendan @ 84
I said “most people and most Nam Vets” not me.
Scarecrow @ 93
Think Overton Window…
Thanks PB I hadn’t seen it on Wonkette yet.
Thanks, Scarecrow.
newtonusr @ 97
The Democratic candidates have already pushed this window with their “tough” talk about putting things “on the table”.
raven @96:
I didn’t understand your last comment. I wasn’t arguing with you.
jim oconnor @ 42
you konw what?
this is a GREAT tool the democrats HAD BETTER use WHENEVER they are approached by the media
they need to say;
“this president has SOME NERVE” claiming health care is too expensive, if he brought our armed forces home he would have MORE THEN ENOUGH money to fund infrastructre, health care, clean up the envirnment, make mining safe, FIX THE LEVEES
AND DO WHAT HE WAS ELECTED TO DO, PROVIDE A GOVENRMENT FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE
not a government for corporations and by corporations”
BING
take EVERY PROGRAM they tried to GUT and THROW IT IN HIS FACE
CALL him on his “the market takes care of itself” by getting the FACT publisized,
“THE MARKET DOES NOT TAKE CARE OF ITSLELF. THAT IS CORPORATE BOUGHT PROPAGANDA, the market will NOT fund NECCESSARY projects that ARE REQUIRED by society”
WE HAVE GOT TO EMBARRASS ANY POLITICIAN OR DEBATE THAT CLAIMS THE MARKET TAKES CARE OF ITSELF
it clearly does not
Brendan@ 84 We never had enough troops in Vietnam is the main idea out of which the rest flow. The reconstruction efforts in Iraq the effort to bring Democracy to Vietnam those are the oppostions “cough” stronger points
I address them because I want to swat them with you can’t win hearts and minds by killing people argument.
I agree we were trying to conquer Vietnam just like we are trying to conquer Iraq, but first I have to discredit the lies before I get to the truth.
Not that I care why we went there like you do. Its why we leave that I think is important to discuss.
Once the majority of people get touched by war personally they start asking if its worth it. Absent a real threat to home they tend to answer no, but once that question is asked the war is lost.
No one could have predicted that we’d lose our republic.
No one could have predicted that the democrats in Congress would run scared.
No one could have predicted that we’d bomb Iran even after we understood what would happen next.
No one could have predicted that we’d need a draft to fill Arlington to the brim.
No one could have predicted that smear campaign against Hillary.
No one could have predicted that she’d win anyway.
things come undone @ 103
I was arguing over historical accuracy. When you say “we didn’t have enough troops” in Vietnam you’re compounding your mistakes. We had over a half a million there at the height. Something like twelve million Americans served there over the course of the war. You’re unwittingly echoing the arguments of right wing revisionists who seek to justify present and future “interventions”.
raven @ 46
Is this true? The vast majority of the people I know (including Vietnam vets) don’t think that. They think that we shouldn’t have gone to war there in the first place, and took far too long in getting out.
Bush must have heard that al Maliki had invited Ahmedinjad to visit Baghdad.
seepeesate @ 106
It’s just a sense that I have but I have to remember that I have lived in Georgia for 23 years.
Let’s face it. Americans are stuck with Bush/Cheney, because not enough Democrats believe in the Constitution. With impeachment off the table, our only hope is to trade Bush/Cheney to another country, and as Bush noted yesterday, it’s our right to get rid of him and his crowd.
OK I used profanity in the last comment. Let’s try this:
Is this a serious blog? People are dying!
Che’s Lounge @ 109
I think we’re still laughing too hard from when you called us “pseudo progressives.”
Richmond @ 92
He would be wise to reconsider. After all, he wouldn’t want to end up dead in a bathtub in a cheap hotel in rural Georgia, like a Florida investigator looking into Republican criminal behavior.
The Bushies don’t play nice. They’re bullies and sociopaths. Don’t mess with ‘em that way.
brendan @ 105
How could we have had enough troops in Viet Nam to win if we lost the war? Rightwing revisionists can and will spin about why we could have won I can’t stop that.
But by focusing on more troops as the reason why we lost I indirectly put the light on our Presidents own lack of service in Viet Nam.
egregious @ 110
Well who do you support for president?