There is a theory that Bush and the GOP only pretend to be incompetent, that their bungling conceals their true corporate and authoritarian agenda. Their “blunders” have enriched Halliburton and Big Oil, demonstrated the uselessness of the government bureaucracy, and consolidated presidential and (up until 2006) Republican power. I’m a bit skeptical – after all, incompetence is Dubya’s natural habitat. But hey, that just makes him the perfect frontman.
Unfortunately, it’s not just Republicans we have to worry about.
Consider the media, whose laziness and high school shallowness almost always favors Republicans. There’s the uncritical reporting of whatever the Bush administration tells them (*cough Michael Gordon cough*); the manufacture of fake Democratic scandals (helloooo, John Solomon!); the sneering put-downs of Democrats (Modo and RoGiv, I’m looking at you); and the diversionary feeding frenzies over missing-white-woman stories every time Republicans are in trouble.
Surely, if the media’s braindead nastiness was genuine, we would see Republicans on the receiving end of it every once in a while, but it rarely happens. Republican scandals are reported perfunctorily and forgotten as quickly as possible. Remember Jeff Gannon, and the various Hookergates? You’d think the media would love a nice juicy sex scandal, but if it involves Republicans, they just can’t be bothered.
Even more troubling and problematic is the upper right of the Democratic party: the leadership and the Blue Dog/DLC wing. They have inexplicably yielded to Bush again and again, even when his approval rating is in the toilet, even when their capitulation will hurt them electorally. Bankruptcy “reform.” Roberts. Alito. Habeas. Defense reauthorization. FISA. Sometimes they have second thoughts, but always after it’s too late to be undone. I find it harder and harder to believe that this is simple obliviousness; it has to be a deliberate strategy – I just can’t figure out what it is.
I could only come up with two possibilities that look remotely strategic. One is camouflage: If the Connecticut For Lieberman Caucus votes with the Republicans on everything, they can claim it’s all part of a comprehensive centrist package that will start winning elections any day now. But if they only vote with the Republicans on corporate issues, then it becomes too obvious that the DLC is just a trojan horse for the Chamber Of Commerce.
The other is a form of sabotage: The leadership fears that if they stop Bush in 2007, they’ll have nothing to run on in 2008. But if they maximize the Republican disaster, 2008 will be a Democratic landslide. I suppose that could work… but only if no-one noticed their aiding and abetting.
Other, non-strategic possibilities:
1) The leadership and DLC types’ reliance on big-money donors has deafened them to everyone else. Sure, they’re vaguely aware that progressives don’t like giving Dubya more power and less oversight, or lifetime appointments for right-wing ideologues, but they don’t think it’s that big a deal until the shitstorm hits.
2) The Republicans talk to them about death before every vote.
3) They really are that stupid.
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hey Eli!
sneak
Hiya, LL!
Hey Eli!
Hi, carolyn!
They’d have a LOT to run on if they just demonstrated they had some principles, and were willing to stick with them…
Hey Eli
raven @ 2
who, moi? ;-)
Eli, your posts are just getting better and better.
And jeez, that Zed thing? You gotta have something in mind to say, cuz there’s no time to be clever when you see “no comments”
Hiya, MM!
Mr. Sandman @ 6
I know, and it’s so obvious that I just can’t believe they can’t see it.
So I think they see it, but they either think something else is more important, or that they’re somehow outsmarting the system.
Hi Eli!
Let me play devil’s advocate for a bit: There are several investigative reporters whose stories are without fail deeply referenced, fact checked and appear to be based on verifiable evidence. They include Matthew Wald and Robert Pear of the NY Times and Dana Priest and Ann Hull of WaPo.
Anyone care to critique these reporters, to add names to their own list of “good eggs” or to refute my opinion and to provide evidence to the contrary?
Eli, I vote for #3 under “other, non-strategic possibilities”, because I can’t figure ‘em out either.
They really are that stupid.
Bingo. Something I figured out around the time of my third “real” job: an idiot with power is usually smart enough to be able to hang on to as much power as possible.
Biden’s promotion of the Bankruptcy Bill is among the most shameful, but he never gets questioned on it. As I recall, he took $325,000 from MBNA, his staff wrote the damn thing, he shepherded it through, voted for cloture, and THEN, at the very end, voted against it to protect himself. Am I dreaming, or did this actually happen?
carolyn urban @ 9
Thanks, carolyn! I’m never entirely sure that I’m not making a complete fool of myself.
(And hey, “hello” is fine…)
Remember all that eavesdropping the NSA did? Well it seems fairly obvious thay could have acquired enough damaging information to blackmail a large number of Blue Dogs and media people, who thus would become complete putty in the hands of the Bushites. Why haven’t you considered this possibility?
N=1 @ 11
I won’t argue that there aren’t *any* good reporters, but isn’t it funny how the bad ones always seem to favor Republican narratives?
Damn, I just realized I left out Ad Nags and his neverending Dems-in-turmoil stories.
oh the dlc is just as corporate-minded as the repugs – its why they love HRC – get bill in the bargain and super access to the WH should she get in…damn
Hello strangers!
Been going crazy with the move. Still have a number of boxes to unpack and most of the library.
I’ve been in Verizon hell since they showed up to install the whole package on Friday—phone, teevee and net. To sum it up, not ready for prime time. I’m an inch away from going back to Comcast. Wrestled with the system to set up my DVD recorder to capture the CNN series that Christiane Amanpur is doing. I think I’ve got it, but we shall see. The Verizon DVR doesn’t play with anyone else—DVD, VCR etc. TiVo is a much better product.
As for the stupidity of the R’s, it’s hard to know what to believe any more. The enabling of the BushDog dems is a disgrace plain and simple.
Been missing the threads and all of you. A Lot.
Hiya Eli, hiya gang!
Incompetence my ass. It is by design.
I spoke to someone recently who had the nerve to suggest that we actually oppose the president.
quake @ 16
I think it’s a little far-fetched, and *extremely* risky – if one courageous Democrat calls them on the blackmail, they could be pretty well fucked (assuming anyone reports it).
I wouldn’t completely rule it out, though…
dlc-neocons….2 sides of the same coin to me
Eli,
I vote for #3 as well – They really are that stupid!!!
RevDeb, I moved 2 years ago and I’m still not unpacked.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 21
Good Lord. What a shocking notion.
I have never had a lot of respect for Hillary but when I saw clips of her on KO tonight talking about progress in Iraq I lost what little respect I had left for her. I had given up on Edwards thinking the Hillary machine was unbeatable but I don’t think we can afford to give in to her. Tonight, for the first time I felt that if it came down to her or a reThug I just might vote for a third party candidate if there was one.
RevDeb @ 19
Hey, RevDeb, long time no see!!!
1. never attribute to conspiracy what you can write off to stupidity
2. just cuz yer paranoid don’t mean they ain’t trying to getcha
… i have been puzzling over which one is right for some time now
it’s quite that the right answer is: both
Eli @ 22
Who would you report it to? AGAG? ROFLOL.
Yeah, I’m with you, as for chimp and his minions, I think it’s a veneer of incompetence (think chimp) supported with a huge swathe of nasty deliberation (think Big Dick) and of course (the Self InFlated Brain.) Pump in a gazillion dollars, instill as much fear as possible, add a dazed and dozing electorate, and a fourth estate who have been bought. Dumb down the educational system, throw a ton of cheap credit out there, destroy unions and jobs, encourage community destroying mobility – what’ve you got? The wonderful state of the union.
Thanks for a wonderful post that says it all in a few short paragraphs…FDL is a national treasure….
realworld @ 27
Hillary would absolutely be better than any of the Republican candidates. But not by much, and it’s very hard for me to imagine her aggressively trying to roll back all of Bush’s fuckups.
Eli- Can you believe it, when we’re fighting the terrorism Kissinger started.
quake @ 30
Dana Priest.
(Note that that N=1’s list was all print journalists – I don’t think they get nearly as many eyeballs as the fools on TV)
I have a good mind to oppose Cheney.
I may be naive but I don’t think the leadership is trying to maximize the Republican disaster. I think they don’t have the votes. The combination of Blue Dogs and worse the Bush Dogs really restricts the options.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 33
Can you explain this some more?
I’ve been here 17 years and I’ve still got a couple boxes in the barn. And at this point, I don’t care what’s in them, I’m never unpacking those babies.
Hello all.
selise and pow wow did such a fine job of documenting the sneaky, underhanded tactics of the leadership in getting Bushs’ spying bill passed, it must be patently obvious to all by now that they are in cahoots with the neocons. They tried to hide it,but “incompetence” “stupidity” and various other cop-outs no longer wash. Put the spying together with bankruptcy, MCA, Iraq funding, Iran capitulation, and you have a recipe for “collaborator.”
I’m pretty sure our tax dollars are going to fighting bad stuff.
Eli @ 22
But, what they fail to grasp is the fact the Repugs’ have inured the Electorate to any and all shenanigans, vote right, err… Left for the electorate, not against, and ye shall reap the rewards…!!! Doh…!!! ;-)
realworld-I’m referring to Peter Dale Scott’s new book.
The only comment I have is another fine post Eli.
I wish I could add to the discussion but I got nothin’.
Personally, I’m sure they have an agenda, because it has been published (PNAC) and Shock and Awe. One has only to look at our disappearing rights, and the implementation of police state laws. They refuse to abide by the law. They lie repeatedly. They refuse to abide by Congressional oversight requests. They refuse to take protect citizens from death such as we saw with Katrina and loosening of laws that protect children such as noted on the previous thread. It is clearly by design with a bunch of incompetence thrown in. People that go along with their smoke and mirrors and their bribery and manipulation are just naive. JMHO.
Steve-AR @ 36
Hopefully someone here can speak to this better than I, but there were some pretty huge procedural errors in the way Reid and Pelosi handled the FISA expansion, not to mention Reid’s refusal to even bring anything to the floor if it doesn’t have 60 votes, much less actually make the Republicans filibuster (other than the defense reauthorization, and even then, I’m pretty sure he let them off the hook).
And I remember Reid confidently telling us that the habeas repeal had no chance, and I believe it was *Kerry* leading the filibuster attempt against Alito; Reid had no part of it.
Oh please. No more Hillary-hatred. Gives me traumatic flashbacks of the tweedledum/tweedledee Gore = Bush people. If you can’t tell Gore from Bush or Senator Clinton from Bush, then you’re part of the problem. “Third party candidate.” Yeah, that would be a big help.
wangdangdoodle @ 25
I moved November 2nd, 2005. Still have 6000 books in boxes waiting for bookshelves to be constructed in the den. The other 3000 are happily ensconsed throughout the house.
My cats love it, like a little mountain range for them.
Eli @ 34
Occam’s Razor tells us it’s higly unlikely they’re spying and eavesdropping for no reason at all. If they’re not using it for blackmail, what are they using it for?
Ain’t that the truth? If a Dem rep was guilty of accepting bribes from defense contractors, and the related indictments of others involved details of the hookers brought to a hotel for the rep, and how much the hookers were paid AND tipped, it would be the lead story on cable news shows everyday for a week. At least.
Since Cunningham was a republic, no one ever mentioned it.
realworld @ 27
Here’s my prediction, FWIW.
Hillary vs. Rudy.
Repubs win either way.
They have lived up to everything I have said to friends when they came in to power. Molly had it right.
jo6pac
TheOtherWA @ 49
To say nothing of what would happen if the Clinton administration snuck a gay hooker into the WH press corps.
If one accepts what the DLC is, then how at the same time can one support a member of the DLC Leadership Team for president? There seems to be a contradiction there.
wangdangdoodle @ 20
I’m with you.
Bush is the psychopathic moron put there because he is incompetent. That also goes for the thousands of other incompetent people appointed to federal jobs. The pattern is so consistent that it can’t be an accident.
They’re still jammin to the greatest hits of the new wave,remember: “ronnies’ zombies” “wolfies’ b-team” “tear down that wall, mr.g” and who can forget “only a fool be p.c.”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 53
I’d rather have Republican Lite than Republican Heavy.
But my first choice is still no Republican at all.
It is perfectly possible that there are small pockets of progress in Iraq. It is the big picture one has to look at.
I’m prepared to oppose certain lines of the bills Congress has never read.
I’d rather have the wolf than the wolf in sheeps clothing. At least you know what your dealing with and can confront it head on.
LS @ 57
The small pocket of progress is where an American squad occupies the ground.
Somewhere Cheney is smirking.
sunny @ 59
There is the downside that Republicanism will damage the Democratic “brand” as badly as it has the GOP’s. On the other hand, Justice Stevens ain’t getting any younger.
Hi RevDeb… at least you got the tubes to work..
And I moved 9 years ago and still have boxes that have never been unpacked and might never get to them. I think it is left over from the military…. in the first 5 years the longest I lived with my own furniture was 9 months, it was either packed, in shipping, on some boat or in customs.
I want to know if anyone has checked the drinking fountains out in the capital… is it water or the Repug Kool Aide?
carolyn urban, I am jealous of your barn.
Eli @ 34
That’s an interesting point. How do print reporters know what the numbers are for their readership? I almost exclusively read the online versions of “newspapers”.
And Matt Wald is a reporter who works on energy and transportation stories, for the most part (air traffic control, air passenger safety, NATCA, FAA, fossil fuel power generation, nuclear industry, etc.), while Robert Pear is a health reporter (broke the Fri night special story about Bush undermining S-CHIP while Medicare was rolling out under the radar, of course, the denial of reimbursement for “preventable” medical error care – note that preventable is not well-defined and that the insurance industry is waiting to attack patients and deny reimbursement, so that patients are now being set up to be blamed for these “preventable” medical errors, and thus incur the costs for the care to repair and rectify them.
LS #44 and #57,
You are a fount of wisdom tonight. Happy to agree with every word.
clinton scandal? – BJ in the WH – bushco scandals? too numerous to mention… and i forgot about the gay hooker in the WH press corps lol just wow……
Eli @ 45
I don’t agree with their approach but I think they are trying to make “the right” political calculation. I think they are overthinking the politics but what do I know..they may be right.
This is all so depressing, whatever it is that is wrong with these people who are working for us, in theory of course, but of course, why would we even think they are working for us, silly little people?
I may have to try to unplug for a while. I really can’t stand to feel so hopeless.
This is an excellent post. The answers to Eli’s questions get to the very heart of whether our democracy is dead and buried or simply lying on the floor waiting for the EMT’s to apply the defibrillator.
I’m cynical after watching the “opposition” party fumble and fuck-up just about every political gift the GOP has handed them. Clearly, the allure of influence and money is more powerful than their desire to represent the interests of the people, so they go through the motions and the corpo-media covers their asses with a wink and a nod. I’m not sure they conspire to execute some grand game plan (like the GOP/wingnut thinks tanks do) but most recognize that in order to maintain their positions, well, money talks and the lobbyists and their paymasters have lots of it.
A fascist state for all intents and purposes.
Jonathan @ 61
Roger that. And that is ever so fleeting as we both know so well.
Eli:
What guarantees do we have that HRC would not appoint a neocon (someone like Lieberman) to the SC?
What are we going to do now that we know we have no representation?
Jonathan @ 60
Well exactly. They may have less violence at that particular place, which helps out a particular neighborhood temporarily, but they can’t occupy that space forever. As soon as they move, it starts all over again…
And the last thing “they” want is progress in Iraq. So much easier to steal under the cloak of chaos.
If we get Republican-lite in ‘08, what’s to prevent them from becomoing Republican heavy?
The way things are shaping up this is going to one uninspiring presidential election coming up. Perhaps the worst I’ve ever had the displeasure of voting in.
Dem president, the day (01.23.2010) R’s take the house, impeachment proceedings will commence.
Disgust was back there a ways…
They’re all incompetent. Remember 1988? The Iran/Contra hearings..
Has Gen. Petraeus become our new Ollie North?
Hasn’t the same players from different scandals led US down the same path before? Remember Iran / Contra? The selling of arms to Iran to perpetuate an illegal proxy war with the Contras in Nicaragua and Honduras and in turn, have Iran increase pressure on Hezbollah to release of American held hostages. Read former Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North’s emails. This scandal was huge. In fact it brings US back around to square one with our current Iraq/Iran debacle.
While Iran and Iraq were fighting their bloody war of attrition, the US was supplying Iraq with weapons and the Soviets, Iran. Then the bi polar hegemonic powers switched sides and started supplying the opposing nation. It was a huge clu$ter f@$k…In short, we were supplying the enemies of our enemies with weapons. Nothing new. What was new was an investigative committee finding North complicit.
Lt. Colonel Ollie North never stood up…never stopped obeying orders from his civilian counterparts in the CIA, Defense department, the Oval Office, etc. He allowed himself to become a political tool for the administration. As he stated under testimony “I was authorized to do everything that I did”. Illegal or not, the order was obeyed.
Is this what our military general and officer corps are supposed to do? To obey all orders even if those orders are illegal? I tend to differ with this judgement. Our military leaders are not to blindly obey. They’re the military professionals. They’ve been educated and trained in warfare, unlike their civilian counterparts in the Pentagon and the Defense Department who dabble in academic thought on war. Our military leader do this as their full time job…they know war.
Please read the full Article.
http://newssophisticate.blogsp…..north.html
Then Check my lead article today.
Homeland Security tightens Grip. Entering Latin America and the Caribbean
http://newssophisticate.blogsp…..-grip.html
The imagery alone will shock, enrage, and scare you…worse yet, it is directly from a government sponsored website.
Maybe we’ve been hoodwinked.
Cue: President Gore?
I guess I’ll just try to balance my pathetic checkbook and go to bed. Maybe there will be a reason to get up tomorrow.
sunny @ 72
I think she’d be more likely nominate a Sensible Moderate, which is actually what I’d like to see the *entire* SCOTUS composed of.
But if ever there would be a Democratic president who would defer to Republican senators telling her who to nominate, it would be Hillary.
Eli, your right on, but this is so depressing.
The now-pseudo left blogs also play to the media by supporting candidates like Hillary and Obama. I guess the left blogosphere wants more war just like they do. If the moderate Dems get in, that president will HAVE to repeat what LBJ did and reinstitute the draft. But no problem. They will just blame Iran, or Syria, or the Iraqis. Anyone but themselves.
Grow some huevos. Support Kucinich. The anti war movement must start NOW. Otherwise the blogs are just like them.
We have one year. Put up or shut up.
carolyn urban @ 79
Don’t I wish. I think I’ve put up at least two “Run, Al, Run” posts here.
bg @ 80
Aw, c’mon. We need you. Get some rest. Tomorrow’s another day.
bg- That’s how they want you to think. It’s time to fight these sons of bitches.
darms @ 77
Exactly. This is why Pelosi’s “off the table” and the general “it wouldn’t be a good time” meme is so infuriating to me. I sincerely doubt it is because they want to set a good example.
Eli @ 10
I think that most of the folks on Capitol Hill are short-sighted, regardless of which party they’re in. As many of the bloggers here at FDL have said, we’re going to have to do a lot of the work ourselves, the work THEY should be doing.
We’ve got to help develop long-term strategies that are sound, succinct, and no-brainers, then sell them as hard as we can. That’s the only thing that I think might work…
What keeps gnawing at me and keeps me angry is that this occupation that Bush and his crew call a war was a necessary element of their plan.
You cannot institute a fascist state without a war. You need the jingoism, the uber-patriotism to rally the mob around and to develop the cult of the leader.
Just as Stalin needed Hitler to deflect the criticisms of the Bolshevik terror in the revolution gone awry, Bush and his minions needed Osama bin Laden as the bogeyman to distract everyone from the assault they had planned on the constitution and our way of life.
These aren’t conservatives, for chrissakes, they are radicals, radicals and revolutionaries in their own right, who, like all good revolutionists, refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the established order.
Wanna know why they don’t honor subpoenas? Because they do not recognize the authority of the institution issuing them, plain and simple.
To Bush and his people, the Congress of the US is moribund and not worth the respect you’d show to the recently deceased if you had any class.
But of course, as with all other niceties, that is sorely lacking in this bunch.
I know. We have to fight. Who else if not we?
Tomorrow is another day. But tonight, I am depressed.
Thom Hartman has been saying for a few months… “What if the Repugs declare that they won Iraq and leave?”… Dems continue to run against Bushes Iraq WAR…The Repug Iraq WAR…
THAT is THE Democrat strategy in 08 and the Repugs snatch it right out from under them. They have squat, nada….
Howdy y’all! Hi Eli.
They’re evil, not incompetent. They like to fail at stuff so nobody ever trusts the government.
katymine @ 92
We have to call it an illegal occupation.
They have the money and media but we have the numbers. I think that’s a Doors song.
SnarKassandra @ 92
Or it could just be that they’re lousy at execution but great at spin. Of course, a friendly media makes that a *lot* easier.
SnarKassandra @ 93
From the mouths of babes..
Howdy, miss.
quake @ 49
To make money for themselves? Crap search algorithms, data logjams, all sorts of screwups, and all impossible to call them on because it’s “secret.” Plus massive overcharging.
The truth may be as banal as one of Cheney’s friends charging the US Treasury five cents a word to produce billions of dollars worth of f’all that is any good in the fight against terror.
I think it’s a relative thing.
If for instance, you care about a major American city being wiped off the map, doing nothing in response to Katrina looks stupid, idiotic, reprehensible, incompetent.
On the other hand, if you don’t give a shit, doing nothing makes perfect sense.
Yeah, it’s a relative thing.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 94
We have the numbers *if* we’re not too disgusted to turn out, which the Democratic leadership seems to be trying to ensure.
james @ 89
James, I agree.
The BEST thing that ever happened to George W. Bush was Osama Bin Laden.
Does anyone else think it’ll be a disaster if Hillary gets the nomination? I like Hillary in a lot of ways, I like smart powerful women, that’s why I read this blog; but there is so much rancor toward the Clintons, and forget Bill, normal rational people just foam at the mouth when the subject of Hillary comes up. And is it me? Or does it seem a male intensive thing to hate Hillary? It’ll rally the dispirited and broken republican party like nothing else.
On the other hand, compared to the present “administration” Hillary would be absolutely brilliant.
sunny @ 60
Presuming you still have a head.
This is going to sound positively out there in tinfoil country….but I suspect that by the time the actual election rolls around, that Iraq/WOT is going to be very low on the issue totem pole.
As Bill said, “It’s the economy”. Whoever gets the party nod must have a plan for dealing with an economy square in the toilet.
I know, sounds strange….right now.
Gunga Djinn @ 98
What was really eerie was that not only did BushCo. not care, but they apparently assumed that no-one else would either.
So it’s come to this. ‘Mediocracy’ is the best we can expect. Is it any wonder so many don’t bother to participate?
Look at the prospects. Fred Thompson, Rudy, HRC, John McCain and Obama.
carolyn urban @ 101
Well, it’s probably never a good idea to run a candidate that *both* bases hate.
It hurts my feelings to be referred to as a worthless eater.
i know the repugs are graceless and without a conscious but who knew the dems would be so spineless?? you cannot waver with repugs – when will dems wise-up? now they’re pitiful bless their lil ole hearts…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 106
Or Edwards right?
bg, I’m sorry. I’ve been that way too. Try to have the kind of dreams tonight that make you wake up ANGRY and ready to Kick Some Butt.
Great post!
We need to distinguish between Bush and the Party of Bush. Bush may well be incompetent at governing, but I don’t think that’s his job … he’s an actor, like Reagen. There are many strategic advantages to having an actor as a front man instead of a real player. Funny how close those words are. And as an actor Bush seems to be up to the job. He’s ruined us pretty well, with a little help from his friends.
The DLC types do follow their strategic interests; it’s important to look at their interests as strategic, e.g. financial, family and social-tie oriented (can’t say the “C” word in america) and not related to their electoral position. They are businessMostlyMen. They support the corporate agenda over the good of the people they represent. What’s not strategic about that? They get voted out, their associates will provide a social safety net.
IMHO, of course, but it does seem pretty consistent.
There was a time I would have walked through fire for Hillary Clinton. Not any more.
quake @ 49
With the passage of the
Surrender Your RightsFISA Update bill, and its handing of warrantless wiretapping authority to that lil’ boot-licking toady, Gonzo, your point ain’t no stretch.http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0821.html
You know another war is coming when the Republicans have got Fox blasting it. I think America (and the rest of the world) would be a lot better off if this President would focus a bit more on peace and a bit less on starting more wars. If he thinks Iran is a problem, why is war the only effective option this President can find? I don’t think it’s the rest of the world/everyone else any more. I think this President and his bunch of Fox-Republican officials and politicians are the problem.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 113
Because of the war?
SnarKassandra @ 92
This is exactly the case. Ronald Reagan, in 1980: “Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem.”
Republicans have been trying to destroy the government to prove themselves right ever since. Conratulations on the keenness of your thought, Ms. Kassandra.
I don’t know about you, Jonathan, but I haven’t been this pissed off since I realized my team and I had been inserted into an area where the enemy knew we were coming and when we got into serious sh*t were told to be at our extract point at the assigned day and time, no emergency extracts were available till then.
Thank God for an arrogant Marine Huey pilot who was implored to get our asses out and who disobeyed orders from Danang DASC.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 105
OKK — Here’s how I think.
I’m just getting by.
A few beers, a lot of anger.
Who represents me?
I am a proud wearer of tinfoil.
Heraclitus @ 111
Thanks! Sure, I understand that the DLC is all about the corporate agenda, but how does, say, the FISA “reform” do anything for corporations? Only thing I can think of is that it lets the telcos off a potential legal hook.
sunsin @ 98
Hmmmm…I seem to remember something about Poindexter being involved with mining/profiling software during his TIA pitch.
SnarKassandra @ 110
The view here is that Edwards is far superior to these others. We like Edwards, Kucinich and Gore.
Gunga Djinn @ 98
I think it is deliberate. I believe it is part of the cronyism, land grabs, and gentrification of valuable real estate. Rumor is there is oil under there too. Who knows. If it was sheer incompetence, they would have attempted to correct the aftermath by now. They seem to have wanted people to stay away long enough to get settled elsewhere and be unable to go home. They have a nasty habit of sending people away from their homes and never fixing things so people can return home (Iraq, etc.).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 123
I like Kucinich THEN Gore then Edwards. I guess I can stay!
Jonathan @ 119
Kinky Friedman??
I think we’re representing ourselves, at this point.
And good comments, Jonathan.
I’ve been in the “it’s time to hit the streets” camp for several years. I love the power of the internet and the force that the progressive blogosphere has become in such a short time, but I’m just not convinced that a revolution can be won anonymously and over a wire.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 122
I wouldn’t mind Edwards as president at all, but he’s a weak campaigner.
james @ 117
James,
I’ve been pissed a lot. Not over Nam, although I have dreams. But over how I was received back here. I’ve gotten over it. But I remember it.
Heraclitus @ 111
Bingo, bingo. He is the mouthpiece, actor, just like all the others. Kissinger is the Don. Money is the Godfather.
For 3000 years the Cretan people [Crete, Greece] have been conquered, occupied, denied their religion and exterminated by one empire after another starting with the Minoans, Ottoman Turks, Byzantine, Roman, Venetian, Genoian and even the Nazi’s. The were occupied by the Ottoman Turks for over 400 years. Guess who won? Think about every one of those empires, none exist today but the sturdy enterprising Cretan people.
There are villages who are quite proud to have NEVER been conquered. Statues and monuments abound dedicated to the resistance. The one that made me nearly cry was in a village in Anoya where every male was killed from infant to elder by the Nazi’s because the village would not give up the British soldiers they were hiding.
Americans need to relearn their resistant history and claim it for our own.
Jonathan @ 119
We (in this home) understand what you are saying. And we empathize.
katymine @ 131
From Cretans to Cretin.
I think that’s true. We’re going to have to be ready to be much more personal, physical, financial, and in your face.
katymine @ 131
That’s the first time I realized I’d like to be a cretan. ;}
Thanks for the post Eli — I don’t get it either, there must be a reason, but I can’t see it. Leahey flies to DC yesterday to give a totally lame presser about BushCo blowing off another deadline. Today emptywheel over at TNH made a case that Waxman is covering Davis’ keister in the Rove/Hatch Act investigation. You just have to wonder why…
I’d say it’s at some levels sheer incompetency, with busy malice underneath it taking advantage of the incompetence to further private agendas of greed.
Ok I fixed my spelling – conquered!
Jonathan @ 130
The people who dissed us when we got back, and looked down at us, and labeled us as drug using losers are now sitting in the Executive branch of this government or occupying benches at the federal level.
I was not pissed at what I was told to do in Nam, altho at the time I got quite teed off, but I’ve always been pissed that the ones who were so gung-ho for the war and rah rah rah stayed here while I was getting shot and losing friends so these f8ckers could wave the flag and display how much they love the country you and I and raven and so many others fought and bled for.
So they could pillage our legacy, not just the Treasury, altho that gets me mad, but our honor and dignity.
Death before Dishonor is right up there with Semper Fidelis in the Marine Corps lexicon.
Eli-
“I wouldn’t mind Edwards as president at all, but he’s a weak campaigner.”
And a fraud. I lived in NC at the time and voted for him to unseat Faircloth. I remember he came to DC and was so impressive they elevated him to the democratic group opposing the Kenneth Starr freaks. If Gore would have picked him instead of Lieberman I think he would have won big. Now I think he and sadly even Gore are frauds.
phred @ 136
The Democrats are dragging their feet almost as much as the Republicans. Leahy really talks a great game, but his follow-through has been pretty lame.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 132
OKK – I was imagining how someone might think.
I’m OK.
But thanks for your kind message.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 113
And then you woke up?
I hear:
Public financing of elections? Impossible!
Formation of additional political parties? Will never win!
Are we then doomed? Is there a way out of this suffocating morass?
I think Hilary Duff would make an excellent president.
phred @ 137
Because they know that if everything comes out all of them, including the spineless Dems, will be hanging from lamp posts? In more civilized terms — earthquakes don’t discriminate. There may be something under wraps that could make “Washington politician” into the equivalent of “Nazi sympathizer 1946.” I’m not thinking of wild conspiracy theories either; more like theft on a truly gargantuan scale.
So here is a wacky weather report…. Arizona will have a visit from Hurricane Dean this weekend!
I always thought this was an interesting book about the Nam vets:
Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam
katymine @ 149
Sounds like something from the early 2004 election cycle, no?
katymine @ 148
My brother is getting un-mobilized from Texas nat’l guard since the hurricane is not coming here. They are spending tomorrow putting all the stuff and vehicles back where it all belongs and then coming home.
cleter @ 144
About seven or so years ago.
This is a LONG Documentary
I think it is the best rational explanation for what we are seeing… And it is well documented. Look the legal cases up yourself and make up your own mind.
The film opens with what started to be a short documentary on tax protesters and the IRS. It ends up covering everything else we are discussing.
Very well assembled, producer-director-narrated. It takes about 12 minutes to figure out the guy is really on to something.
Check it out, I watched it in segments, pausing when I had other tasks… But the ending touches dead on with this topic and several comments.
And a fraud. I lived in NC at the time…
Everythingseemssoneat, I’m curious as to why you consider Edwards a fraud? When he was campaigning in the 04′ runup, I got that sense on a few occasions. He has impressed me more recently as his populism seems more genuine in the wake of his 04′ experience and his recent work on poverty. Would love to hear your reason(s) for considering him a fraud?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 144
I think public financing would cure a *lot* of ills. Problem is, you would need to gather a majority of incumbents willing to vote against their own job security.
james @ 149
Howard Dean still does that to me… no one laughs at me when I see him speak in person because he always makes me cry….. DAMN, he would make a kick ass President!
Man, a Hillary v. Rudy matchup would powerful suck. Aiee.
peanutbutter @ 150
I was never treated with anything but respect by young people except for one high school friend who called me a fascist (he’s now a firm believer in the Bush reich).
The only people who were a bit weird towards me and friends were people in the VFW when we got to California because they thought we were all wild-eyed nuts until they got to drinking with us. Then we were all just survivors and war’s remnants.
But the Young Republicans I knew were all dickheads every last one of them, dickheads with deferments and smirks on their faces…..I am intimately familiar with the smirk Chimpie wears.
sunsin @ 103
It’s the posers and deceivers who sneak up behind you and take your head. I can deal directly with what I see before me.
Go Kucinich!! A real progressive with real progressive values. What’s the problem with him around here? “He can’t win” is not an answer. OF COURSE he can win if all progressives decide to get behind him.
LS @ 136
That’s the first time I realized I’d like to be a cretan. ;}
Eli @ 142
Yep, and it makes no sense. I don’t think the Dems are stupid or disorganized, something is up, but I don’t know what. Everything they do is for show. I’m sure they think we are stupid though and that we will vote for them no matter what ’cause we hates us them Rethugs. This is the same crap the Rethugs pull on the Religious Right — they make a big show and deliver zip. Dems and Rethugs are all in cahoots together. Time for all of us to take back both parties from these villains.
All you have to do is to read the family history of the people involved. It is all there. It is not a mystery – as far as the Admin. goes.
The Dems – now there is a mystery. I’m afraid they will act too late, if ever at all, because they can’t seem to realize what is really happening. Perhaps they are too close to it. Too trusting, too tied up in the web of it all.
Sad. But, I still have hope. I do believe that HRC knows the real deal and is fighting the right fight. She knows that she has to bridge the sentiments of the two main parties iin order to overcome Rove’s B.S. Bill is a genius campaigner. He’s way smarter than Rove could ever hope to be. I have no fear of Hillary whatsoever, because I know that she has to do what she has to do at this point. I wish the Dems would quit eating their own. They have a plan, and they can pull it off. Rove wants to divide and conquer. Don’t listen to Rove or the media. Bill is behind her, and he can get rid of them in a velvet way. Remember, they have done direct battle with these d*cks. I like all of the other candidates also, however, there is nothing like the impetus of revenge to get past these people. Now, I will put up my shield for the barrage of slings and arrows!!! Ahhhhhh ;>
The people who dissed us when we got back, and looked down at us, and labeled us as drug using losers are now sitting in the Executive branch of this government or occupying benches at the federal level.
james, I’m sorry.
And the same thing’s happening again – as far as people confusing the war mongers with the military.
sunsin @ 147
This sounds close to the mark to me. I think the Dems are every bit as craven as the Rethugs and they are petrified the voters will find out. If their dirty laundry is all mixed in with the Rethugs, then that would go a long way towards explaining why impeachment is off the table.
What is the gameplan? Who is our leader? What are we doing?
Oddly enough, we in Vermont like Dean a lot more now that he’s not Governor. He was a bit… centrist then. We’ve watched his evolution on the national stage with some bemusement – and delight.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 147
I like Chef Duff a bit better (Ace of Cakes).
sunsin @ 147
Yeah, I’d say “follow the money” here. Wonder what would happen if we ever got an actual, completely audited run-down of government income and expenses?
Howard Dean is the only political figure in D.C. that I trust completely.
do-si-do- I like cake. I’ll bet Chef Duff hasn’t supported the murder of like a million people.
if you have time to investigate and rebut one man’s diligent, vociferous writing, Eli, this link has a great deal do say that might shine light on your questions about the national (D) Party’s seemingly inexplicable, but nonetheless endless and repeatable, capitulations and betrayals.
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
option (3), that they are that stupid, is actually far too kind.
Eli,
I’m coming into this conversation late, without having read all the comments, but let me add one more to your list of possibilities: Incompetence by bureaucratic strangulation. This works for both Government programs and MSM reporting.
For example, budget cutting: You cut funds until it is impossible for the unit to function effectively. Then you blame the ineffective functioning not on inadequate funds, but on basic bureaucratic ineptitude, and use that as an excuse to wipe out the program entirely.
For example, consider the news departments at most radio, TV, and newspapers. A budget-whacking executive comes along in the guise of making the department “more competitive,” by cutting deadweight such as editors, investigative journalists, fact checkers, etc. (OK, I’ve turned off the snark) and substituting off-the-wire press releases for “news.” Then, when reader interest in your news division tanks, you say that nobody wants the news anymore, so you cut the news department to the bone and beyond.
I’m not making this up. Its the Katrina syndrome. Look into what happened to the CBS News division over the past few years. Think about what Rupert Murdock is likely to do with the Wall Street Journal, now that he has his clutches on it. Look at what’s happening to Mine Safety.
Bob in HI
Speaking of Mediocracy,
did anyone catch the Fred Thompson puff piece on Newshour? The “expert” was some nice lady from USA Today interviewed by Gwen Ifill.
No mention in the video lead of FEC complaint. None. Nada. No golf cart either. Just happy face PR.
LS@163:
Remember, they have done direct battle with these d*cks. I like all of the other candidates also, however, there is nothing like the impetus of revenge to get past these people. Now, I will put up my shield for the barrage of slings and arrows!!! Ahhhhhh ;>
————————————————
Yes, they have done direct battle and lost. Bill was impeached for nonsense. He was arrogant enough to continue something detrimental to the country and his position as its chief executive when he knew everyone and their mother, as it turns out, was intent on embarrassing him at the expense of the country.
Hillary has been taking meetings with Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes; Bill spends more time with Bush senior than his own son does; the man they had leading the charge against the GOP mouthpieces is still married to Cheney’s former CoS.
The Clintons did not win those battles….this country lost.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 164
We are the leaders…
WE yell, call, write, mail and meet with our elected officials and LEAD them to where we want them to go. Elected officials do not lead, it is their constituents who push their asses in the correct[not right] direction.
They work at the consent of the governed… You and Me.
So what’s the big dirt? Somebody must know.
Hmmm.
Cassandra for President 2032!
Everythingseemssoneat @ 171
Yeah, and if he ever said “let them eat cake” it would be really tasty!
(((standing shoulder to shoulder with LS #161, interlocking shields to start a phalanx}}}
Agreed. I would so much rather have Hillary Clintin appointing SCOTUS judges than any Republican I can think of. Likewise, after reading her book, I do not fear her at all.
I would still prefer Edwards-but HRC is alright with me.
Edwards/Clark
sporkovat @ 170
Any posts in particular?
katymine- “it is their constituents who push their asses in the correct[not right] direction.
They work at the consent of the governed… You and Me.”
I’m starting to think they don’t hold us in high regard.
do-si-do- That’s funny.
james @ 174
I only hope that if she wins, she’ll be egotistical enough to covet the title “Savior of Her Country.” It wouldn’t be the first time the establishment felt they were using someone, only to have the tables turned.
carolyn urban @ 164
The problem is an old one, and even Eisenhower warned about.
1) It’s the military’s role to fight, that’s what they “live” for. If you ask the military, they will tell you they want to fight. In this sense Bush can tell you he is listening to the generals.
2) You have the defense industry, and a whole new (extremely rich) defense contractor system. They make money off the war. Many Dems have lots of voters in their district working for defense contractors… They vote, and their companies pay _huge_ lobby bucks into the machine. Stop the war, it adds to the burden of the mortgage crisis ya know… With no program in place to protect home owners, they stop the war, lose their jobs, and go onto the streets.
It takes a lot of pushback against this machine, especially when the press is complicit. I wonder about reporter’s deaths in light of the Tillman incident.
3) Propaganda
bobschacht @ 171
Or that could all be deliberate. Again, if it were just a matter of newsrooms being stretched thin by cuts, shouldn’t it impact reporting on both parties equally?
And it still doesn’t explain what’s wrong with the Democratic big shots and blue dogs.
It’s visibly sabotage posing as a lack of due dilligence. Note the ever emerging “little-noticed provision”:
– the provision that allowed recess appointees to serve to the end of term without confirmation
– the fact that AGAG gets to approve one-year surveillance programs to the very end of the FISA fix
– the fact that AGAG can now fast-track executions
– the modification to the definition of “electronic surveillance, permitting physical searchs of U.S. citizens and their property within the U.S.
– the side tracking of the better House-version of the FISA fix onto the Suspense Calendar where it needed a 2/3 majority.
And never is it reported who had been assigned responsibility for the due dilligence on each of these measure, i.e., who dropped the ball.
Visibly the Democratic congressional delegation and their staffs are riddled with moles, traitors, and saboteurs, all working in concert. And, Eli, these measures where the ball got dropped are not Chamber of Commerece matters. They are measures on the neocon agenda, matters of civil liberties vs security and executive authority.
Now ask yourself what organization is most vigorous in pushing democrats in the a neocon direction and has considerable influence over their re-election prospects.
carolyn urban @ 164
Sorry for what??? You had as much to do with that as we both have to do with our country invading Iraq.
What I’ve continually felt since I came back is that no one’s kid should have to do this ever again. I’ve talked at veteran’s day assemblies where one kid’s dad is showing pictures of what a bomb does to the ground I follow that up with “You see that hole in the house? Think of the little girl who just finished washing the family dishes after her dad came in from taking care of the sheep. There’s nothing left of her or her family. But the guys dropping those things never get to see that.”
I then tell them that war is ugly and nothing like the video games they play and I sit down to silence from the others who, if they were in combat on the ground, are nodding their heads in agreement.
We have to get our kids home for everyone’s sake.
The is Republican government, Democratic government, and Shadow Government of Cheney, Neocons, and Hillary.
Chairman Comitern Chertoff is a prime shadow.
Maybe our reprentatives are up late tonight reading pending legislation because of their concern for the American people.
Just to declare that Edwards is my first choice, he was in 2004 so at least I am not fickle.
BUT… if Hillary is it and wins, not only in just two years time, America will have it’s first Madam Speaker but Also Madam President. YEA, it has only take us broads 230 years!
I think some Democratic leaders, like Leahy, are about as upset about the GOP misconduct as we are, but they also know that without the votes of the “Bush Dogs” they won’t get anywhere. So they face a choice: do they publicly pushback against the Bush Dogs, risking their opposition on these and other issues, or do they try to work with them quietly behind the scenes?
To this point, I think they’ve been focused on the “behind the scenes” approach — but that’s fading fast, for some of them. The Judiciary Committee members are the most visibly upset, because they’ve been on the receiving end of the most blatant and public lying courtesy of AGAG. I think they fear pushing things to a floor vote on contempt, because they worry about having the votes.
Once upon a time, a conflict between the Senate (or House) and the White House over privilege was non-partisan. That is, Senators of both parties would stand up to a president of either party if they thought the Senate was been taken to the cleaners in some executive branch three-card monty game. Today, the GOP appears ready to back Bush to the end, no matter how much of the independence of the House and Senate they have to give away to do so.
Peterr@191:
Once upon a time, a conflict between the Senate (or House) and the White House over privilege was non-partisan. That is, Senators of both parties would stand up to a president of either party if they thought the Senate was been taken to the cleaners in some executive branch three-card monty game. Today, the GOP appears ready to back Bush to the end, no matter how much of the independence of the House and Senate they have to give away to do so.
Allen Drury….Advise and Consent, there’s still enough time to read it this summer.
Everythingseemsoneat- Not likely.
Peterr @ 189
The genius of the Constitution was understanding how people are so very protective of their “turf”, pitting the egos of presidents and congressmen against each other. But when the Republican caucus willingly became wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Bush White House, the checks and balances fell apart.
My turn to stay with my 99 year old Auntie starts tonight. She called me earlier today to tell me she read my letter to the editor in the “Daily Oklahoman” the other day. She advised me that there were several improvements she would have made had she been the writer. So I know I’m going to be in for an earful tonight. She’s an old FDR Demo, so I imagine she will tell me I was too easy on the Republicans. I love this old girl. And tomorrow morning I’ll be with ‘my kids’ in the classroom trying to get them to understand why negative numbers are important. Life is good. Nite.
Me3 @ 183
Me3
It’s more complex.
You’ve got young men or women.
They’re filled with hormones, energy, a desire to win approval.
They’re willing to serve. Even to sacrifice themselves.
Adults like Bush understand this. And are willing to exploit it.
Sorry for what you went through.
Agreed. Enough of this horror.
james @ 193
I’ve already read it, but if you can get it to a number of senators and representatives, they might be able to squeeze it in during the August recess.
goodnight, OKK.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 196
Give her a big NY hug from me!! God bless her.
Peterr @ 199
Makes you kind of nostalgic, no?
nite OKK
james @ 175
I have looked at it that way too. Of course Bill spent time with W’s father, that was an extremely smart thing to do. Can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em, then you can figure out their thinking.
Murdoch now controls a good deal of our media. Of course you would want his support.
What Bill engaged in is his and Hillary’s business. We don’t really know how that all went down, but it did. So what!
The fact that the Bushie/Cheneys already had a plan to take over the country, including Rover’s politization of all of the departments of the Executive branch — was pre-planned, that ought to tip everybody off to the fact that they planned this way before Bill got a bunch of BJ’s from someone. So what!
And, furthermore, the candidate that followed Clinton was Gore, and Gore won the popular vote, so don’t blame the Clintons. They never took us into a war in the Middle East that we can’t get out of. They never stripped the Constitution. Clinton was not forthcoming about his relationship with “Monica”, but neither is Bush about his “Monica”.
Bush’s policies have killed a hell of a lot of people. Who cares about a goddam* BJ. That is between Hillary and Bill. Rant…..
I’m increasingly drawn to Obama. Hillary is formidable but she’s old school politics. I really like Edwards, but his campaign doesn’t seem to be gathering momentum. I really like all three, and will vote for whomever gets the nomination. But Obama is sounding increasingly credible. He’s taking gutsy, smart positions; he and his wife are both very smart and very charismatic; and – this is the cynic in me – his blackness does protect him from attacks, to some extent, since any attack can be construed as racism. Add to that his centrist/crossover appeal. I don’t hear too much support for Obama at the Lake, though.
you neglect extortion, as the government has the power to spy on all forms of communication that any american uses. they now have the members of congress and their minions dirty laundry and are using it.
you also neglect the coming of martial law, which we are seeing stories about clergy being prepared to help with.
since these are obvious reasons for the acquiescence, another that isn’t so illogical is that oil is gone and everyone is scared, unwilling to talk about it and willing to go along with the new boss. elections seem less and less likely when a large percentage of elected officials are ignoring the public, and assisting in the obstruction of justice.
add a few things to the “how could this be” category, it may not be incompetence, just planning. everything shows that they have planned every step.
are we also blind?
carolyn urban @ 198
Everything I’ve ever experienced has been in some strange way beneficial to me later in life, even the war experiences. I’ve been able to keep my head in family situations where there’s been lots of blood during an accident and focus on what needed to be done, so I guess it was meant to be.
Altho I could do with less troubled sleep sometimes and I refuse to take drugs…I’m perfectly capable of embarrassing myself without the help of Amb*en, thank you.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
That’s just it: my read on Obama is, he’s calculating, taking positions, not operating from the heart. If he was, he’d have stood right up when it was time to filibuster Sammy Alito, instead he’d dithered and saw which way the wind blew, and got in his self promoting slam at the Democratic party on Sunday morning, then joined in with the filibuster vote.
Not good enough.
Jonathan @ 197
I quoted the Berlin diary earlier… Indeed it is more complex. There is always this portion of young people in a population, it’s a given.
What we are discussing are the mechanisms in place used to motivate them to evil ends.
http://www.illuminati-news.com…..-quote.JPG
Who needs recent NSA wiretap scandal when documented evidence five years back was confirmed in closed door hearings. At least four congresscritters were/are? in the pay of ATC. And further allegations of
friends in low placeshigh office and nothing ever pursued.Some of these questions still being raised, to which Waxman had an “I don’t recall” moment …
And now we have more hearings and stern letters leading to stonewalling and the one-finger salute.
Months back, after the first cave-in, I thought well, once the dust has settled there wouldn’t be another. But the Utah mine disaster proved me wrong. Now I just wonder: how low can you go?
When total withdrawal = “except for” = the ‘Korea’ model, and both sides of the gutter debate the best way to use nukes, well … I remember Edward Teller’s optimism: in a nuclear exchange, we’d only lose 20 million Americans. Nothing changes.
Color me depressed.
Eli …. sorry to be unspecific, thanks for the followup
maybe
http://powerofnarrative.blogsp…..er-or.html
it has a lot of stuff in there, about Hillary Clinton’s endorsement of torture for example.
from http://powerofnarrative.blogsp…..sible.html
kind of obviates the hypothetical that she might appoint some Supreme Court Justices who are less horrible than a (R) would appoint. The SCOTUS is gone anyway, as was pointed out a few threads ago, and the circuit courts are badly packed with extremists.
like a crumbling economy, lack of jobs, no financing for higher education, and recruiters swarming everywhere.
If our Senators and Congresscritters had to do the death notices for the military personnel for their state things might change.
If our Senators and Congresscritters had to be at every funeral, if they had to visit the wounded from their state every week.
If they had to face the families, the orphaned children, the left behind spouses surely even the coldest Repug heart would be reached.
Sorry, LS, but when you are the president of the United States and you know the right-wing is hell-bent to disgrace your presidency the line “It was between him and Hillary” doesn’t cut it. He had a responsibility to the country and to what was left of the Democratic Party in the face of the 1994 Congressional debacle to conduct himself in a more dignified manner.
I’m not trying to blame this mess on the Clintons; the PNAC plan was in motion long before that letter was even written. This particular assault on our way of life has been in the works since Nixon’s days and before.
Even this butthole who is the president owes us more in the way of representing himself for the sake of respecting the office. But as I said above, he doesn’t respect the constitution or this system of government so he acts like a lout.
I’ve pretty much accepted the fact that my ideal candidate is never going to be nominated. I’m going to cast my primary vote for the person who will be most likely to win the presidency.
Tithonia @ 203
I could ask any of them 10 important questions, and each of them would fail the test. They’re just politicians.
Here are the first 3 questions:
1. How does the alternative minimum tax work?
2. How many estates are subject to estate tax?
3. How much can I give to my child free of gift tax?
They’re politicians. They don’t know anything other than politics.
2008
We need more Democrats, but we also need better Democrats.
Jonathan @ 216
Hey!!! I can answer those questions and IANAL.
Vote for me, vote for me…….on second thought, you already know how I feel about that.
Eli,
Who, or what, is “RoGiv” in the 3rd paragraph of the item?
Well, it’s been real folks.
Have a wonderful night.
test1 @ 215
Robin Givhan, style writer at WaPo. I believe she broke the Terribly Important News Flash (so to speak) about Hillary’s cleavage.
james at 216
You run.
I’ll vote for you.
‘night, James.
(Or, alternatively, a mnemonic for the visible light spectrum…)
james @ 220
Goodnight james
james @ 214
Okay, then what the heck was Jeff Gannon doing in the WH???? Huh??? Why isn’t that being investigated? Look at Foley???
What Clinton did, he did. It was personal. Why does he have to be held to a different standard??? Clinton F’d up in his personal, sexual behavior. He didn’t institute policies that killed millions of people! We didn’t live in fear of a maniac in the WH or his VP or his cabinet.
I’m just saying, weigh history, not Rove’s smear BS. Other candidate are great. I love Kucinich. I love Edwards. I refuse to allow Rove to steer my thinking, when I remember my own impression of history. I refuse to demolish the Democratic Party…that is what Rove wants. I call BS on that. He can sit on it and spin.
Eli @ 221
LOL!
RoyG.Biv. An old friend of mine.
James,
Such a good book. Would be great to read again, thanks for the idea.
Eli @ 224
Roy G Biv…
sporkovat @ 207
Oy. Hillary says so many appalling things, I can never remember them all…
Three good books from the 1960s
Advise and Consent
African Genesis
Silent Spring
Eli – the Dems lost control of Congress in 94. First they had to deal with Gingrich. Then Delay. How much support did they get from their democratic constituents (c’mon people, be honest – you may be involved now, how involved were you back then? Not so much – I thought so). Most Dems in Congress have never dealt with anybody but “consultants”, Rahm, the MSM, or a handful of activists (dismissed as “wackos” by the consultants, and there weren’t many, so it seemed sensible). 12 years of this, and somehow people expect that just because they’re democrats they’ll show courage and stand up to the assholes who’ve been beating them senseless all these years?
As for you gloom and doomers – how has the fund raising for Repug’s been going, compared to Dems? And how is it that “none of the above” polls bigger than anybody else on the GOP side?
And how is Bush going to declare martial law when all his guns are busy 1/3 of the way around the planet, and he can’t even keep more than a skeleton crew in the WH, DoJ or DHS? This is all bluster. It works better than it should (see 1st paragraph), but it is nothing more than defense.
So please quit wasting your energy on doom and gloom – we need that energy to get real dems elected (no, Hillary does not have it sown up – that’s just what the press wants you to believe).
I vorte for number 3-they really ARE that stupid. Worse yet, they think we are, too.
You know, I have to admit it quite took the wind out of my sails to realize the probability of declaring nationwide martial law here is probably pretty low for the same reason we *probably* can’t attack *anyone* — Our troops are too spread out and too far away.
Urgh. Under martial law, then, the people of the country are the enemy.
I cannot wait until this sociopath is OUT of office! I want to see him prosecuted too, but first out, out, OUT!
GordonM @ 232
I agree. Hillary does not have it sown up, neither does anyone else. The Rove machine has been going on since the Nixon days, and the mofo is still walking free and in contempt of congress as we speak!!! We need better Dems and we need to stick together, we cannot be split up by the crapola from the Rove machine. Don’t fall for the trick. It is a trick.
Sorry, I just had to leave y’all with this:
The Jurist
We once were a beacon to the rest of the world. It is fitting that this plea is addressed to the governor of Texas where, in Dallas, in November, 1963, our legacy was destroyed by the families of people who occupy the highest offices of this country.
sunny @ 231
I will vote, but I’ll never vote for the lesser evil.
james @ 159
The ones I knew were either on Prozac or other medication… Or needed to be.
The hard core base is about the same percentage of louts as is normal for any society: There is one in every crowd
But sometimes I think it’s 1-1/2 or 2
completely OT – sports fans, Angels are pummeling the Yankees 6-1, bottom of the 2nd…
james @ 236
James, Let’s talk about this.
sunny @ 235
Who cares what that vicious, stupid, moron says! Who cares? He is a big Zero, a nobody, he is part of the warmongering mouthpieces. That is all he is. He does not exist in Majority America. He thinks he lives in, the Homeland, or something. Spit.
a)
“the Clintons could not win those battles”
i think they decided not to, and here’s why :
i consider the Clintons absolute pros and i assume they had enough dirty laundry on any of their attackers to smoke them. but because they are pros, they didn’t. remember, while Bill didn’t do anything wrong legally, he cheated on his wife and did something very “nasty” in the kinda sacred oval office. he *deserved* to lose in a fashion. so they made their credo “people make mistakes, but at least America flourishes, ok ?” instead of “i’m the prez and NOBODY criticizes me, PUNK”. better come off sympathetic and human then stubborn and vengeful, especially when the wife wants to follow into the job some years later…
b)
i read the TNR article linked at 2) and finally i understand the reason for “All FEAR and TERROR all the time in the MSN…”. which kinda explains why some repugs anticipate another terrorist attack on US soil. maybe one should counter this strategy by making it stick to the GOP. they aren’t defenders, they’re enablers. hammer talking points like port security, Saudi citizen involvement in worldwide terror (and the Bush family’s friendship to the Saudi clan), and ask who detonated WTC7 … that might help.
unless the GOP pulls another Florida or Ohio or skips the election altogether…
Trailer – Tom Delay’s Big Buy
If you haven’t see this video, then you should.
carolyn urban @ 31
Elegant in it’s simplicity.
sporkovat @ 210
When you read Arthur, do it with Wikipedia handy. Damn near every source he uses is a CATO Institute libertarian. Yeah, he writes well, but it’s not exactly honest.
This Administration really pisses me off, I guess nobody can tell…*g*.
LS @ 247
Don’t hold back, tell us what you really think!
check that, 7-1…
LS @ 243
I was trying to point out that when the vicious, stupid, moron Kristol says “the responsible Democrat who could become commander in chief in a post-9/11 world” Clinton should be having BIG problems with progressive support.
GordonM @ 228
I would be a lot more forgiving if the Democrats would do what they were voted in to do last year, which is to *oppose*, not capitulate or facilitate. It’s possible they might still win big in 2008 because the Republicans have been such fuckups, but I think a lot of people who voted for them in 2006 will say “Why bother?” and stay home.
And hey, it’s not like writing a gloom-and-doom post saps me, or anyone else, of the energy to do anything else. If Reid and Pelosi and the Blue Dogs want to give Bush everything he wants, that really is a problem, regardless of whether they have an excuse or not.
I’m with stupid. Stupid maybe too kind Sporkovat#172, but it exsists in nearly infinite quantities.
Defunding programs was/is another tactic in making government not work, Bob inHi#173.
I like the sites presidential favorites. If Hillary’s the Democratic Candidate, would I vote for her. I’m inclined that way, but I do have issues with her.
Reguardless, public financing of at least presidential campaigns would be very important to me. I’m sure its not the answer to all our political problems. It is a big step in the right direction.
carolyn urban @ 103
Yes. For one, it will stop me from voting for a Dem for president (not that I’d vote for the Rep, of course). For another, she’s a corporatist, every bit as much in love with the idea of corporate rule as the Republicans. Her version would likely be a bit friendlier, but in a sense that makes it all the more dangerous.
LS @ 226
Hey, LS!!! I never meant to walk away before.
Listen and see if this makes any sense.
Here’s my thinking…I’m 57, retired, and currently an independent altho, until after last year’s election I was a life-ling Democrat. I campaigned for McGovern while I was still in the Marines assigned to Richard Nixon’s helicopter squadron in Virginia.
To me, even when he was running, Clinton was not a Democrat. I was aware back in the 80s when the DLC was formed that there was a group trying to destroy the Democrats from within so they could advance themselves at the expense of OUR country. The Clintons were charter members of that group; they were NEVER Democrats and Hillary is not, today, a democrat (Small d intentional).
I was against the impeachment and the witch hunt that preceded it; I was pissed when Gary Hart taunted the press back in 88 because I knew they were gonna get him, I knew it. How??? Just look at the guy, you knew he was getting as much ass as he could, and I had no problem with that except for the fact that, as with Clinto, it impacted my country.
You see, for me, it all comes down to my country. You can keep a freezer full of cadavers that you schtup all night long as long as it doesn’t affect how you represent my country and its interests.
I personally would like to see Larry Flynt trumpeting the Jeff Gannon thing all over America. It pisses me off that the press isn’t doing to Bush what they would be doing to Clinton if it was his ass in the White House under the same salacious circumstances.
We are of the same mind, I just express myself in a weird way sometimes.
“And how is Bush going to declare martial law when all his guns are busy 1/3 of the way around the planet ?”
Blackwater. and i consider some trigger-happy private goons with a get-out-of-jail-free card much more scary then professional military types who could be your neighbor and know that.
sunny @ 249
And I was pointing out that anything that vicious, stupid, moron Kristol says has no credibility whatsoever, because he is a signatory on the PNAC letter to Clinton. He should not be given the time of day. He is partipating in a plan to undermine our democracy every day. Spit.
Me3 – But I am not sure the disconnected middle of the democrat machine is aware with the really drastic and rapid shift in public opinion. It’s like they have the mute button on. Nobody wants to get out front, and possibly because they know the Rove machine will go full out on them.
Rove may be gone, the machine may be damaged, but it’s still in power.
I heard a Democratic voter say just last week that she would not vote for Hillary even if she was a man.
Others are saying they will just not vote. I know many of the boots on the ground who will not work in her campaign. That pretty much sucks the life out of any change.
wtf @ 29
methinks you’re on to something.
‘winning’ wrongheaded battles just because you can = stupid conspiracy
Reid has to go. Period.
How do we always get people like Daschle and Reid as our senate leaders. Get those fuckers out of there and get a real Democrat to lead.
Jonathan @ 242
clichyatmacdotcom any time
TRex is upstairs
Eli @ 250
I wasn’t directing “doom and gloom” at you – only the first paragraph. If they won’t stand up, we need to kick ‘em out. We should be angry, we need to stay angry until something is done.
On the contrary, the “doom and gloom” was directed at those who seem to think we’ll lose, so it’s not worth trying. The Dems will not lose – they will win. But if people give up, the wrong Dems will win.
Riesz Fischer @ 261
Majority Leader Feingold…
on moving:
When my mother and I moved into town in 1996, there were boxes in the garage cupboards that had been packed in 1956, and had been moved three times already. ‘If you haven’t needed it in 40 years, you don’t need it.’ – Mom.
Bob in HI:
Sent your ‘clue by four’ to a friend, who revised it slightly:
1) Remember who elected you. And who can elect someone else.
2) Remember your oath of office – *every* *single* *word*. We do.
3) Pay attention to those who don’t seem to remember all the words in their oaths of office. We are.
4) Sic’ em!! You don’t want us to.
new thread:
new thread
GordonM @ 264
Ah, okay. I *do* tend to gravitate towards gloom-and-doom, because I’m so disgusted. I think I might end up donating the majority of my money for the primaries next year…
LS
So, are you saying you are perfectly ok with a candidate who garners the admiration of people like Kristol? NO, he does not have credibility. That only makes her look worse.
james @ 254
Not wjames @ 255
I don’t think you are expressing yourself weirdly at all!! I worked for someone who worked “very” closely with Hillary during the health care period. Believe me, it was sincere work. They were dedicated. They fought like hell. I witnessed it on a daily basis. The “right wing conspiracy” is Karl Rove’s big plan. It has been around since the Nixon days. It is helping to divide us, and the country. Everyone has to personally decide how to vote, but we have to decide based upon the information we can get hold of. We are fortunate now, to have the internet, to share ideas, and perspectives. There is no perfect solution, but we absolutely cannot allow the likes of the RNC and Karl Rove to shape our thoughts! That is what I am mainly fighting back about. I see a division occurring, and I think we have to really, really be aware of how dangerous their tactics are to our future. Peace.
Spiritcatcher @ 256
In a country of 300 million?
Excuse me, but for that to work, Blackwater would need on the order of 6 million employees in the US. That’s how E Germany did it – 2% of the population was on the payroll. And they didn’t have a 2nd amendment.
Please, this is the same irrational fear that kept Bush in power.
All the issues that progressives care about seem to have been thrown aside by Reid and Pelosi. It maybe well time for a third party if Vice President Gore does not run or have Howard Dean form a new party, Frankly, I am tired of the re-threads. There is also a lack of vision, no new ideas, no substance on policies, lots of rhetorics and promises of old style of governing…..can someone please fill me in on where the Dems wants to take the country in the 21st century as they seems to be still stuck in the 19th century.
The thing that bothers me is the effectiveness of the Republican propaganda techniques. They have become masterful to put it mildly. This current stuff ” the surge is succeeding” and “Senator Clinton is going to be the Democratic Presidential candidate” (she is the Republican parties candidate for the democrats) seems to be gaining more and more momentum. It seems to have infused in to some of the progressive blogs. Guess we can thank the national media for this
GordonM @ 271
Ooopsie ! You’re correct … i totally forgot the 2nd amendment and the fact that you Americans have millions of private firearms lying around… yep, that could get interesting.
Eli @ 195
They are still defending their turf, just defining the turf differently.
sunny @ 269
How could you ask such a question? Obviously not. Hillary does not advocate the same policies of Kristol. Where has she said that? I’m not even advocating Hillary, I’m just saying look at history before making a judgement, don’t depend on media spin by the Rove machine. As far as I can tell, she has stated that she intends to end the war. She stated that she based her vote at the time, because she believed the president was going to pursue every diplomatic means to establish the truth. He didn’t, once he got the AUMF. He misled and lied the Congress into signing off on faulty intelligence. Where has she supported William Kristol’s policies? Where?
Bush has taken on absurd powers in the time he’s been in office. I would really like to see the next President rescind those powers. I really don’t think it is likely, however. Once the powers have been vested unchallenged, they are likely here to stay.
Spiritcatcher @ 274
Let’s can that crap right now. If you can’t get a general strike, or even a decent demonstration together, you would utterly fail at armed resistance. This is nothing but onanism.
I can offer another. It’s some 80 pages of reading, or perhaps 55 or so if you skip the footnotes. It offers understanding and necessary historical perspective.
Just google up “How Bertrand Russell became an evil man” and have at it. At the very least one could learn who Lord Russell’s grandfather was, and why that’s important–something anyone whose hackles are raised by the title should have a passing awareness of before throwing stones.
Forget “conspiracy theory.” Think “historical perspective.”
I would like to see a discussion of the following as the reason we see democrats capitulate.
1) The DNC like the GOP only let people run who they know they can control via blackmail. Mark Foley was a perfect candidate for the GOP who could be counted on to toe the line, or else. This is the tip of the iceberg. Look at all the fine, clean, independent minded candidates who ran on the Dem ticket who received no support from Rahm Emmanuel. Better to have somebody you can control than a independent thinker in the party.
2) Blackmail is as old as politics itself. The fact that it is never reported on means that is seldom happens, or more probably it happens all the time and is very effective.
3) The excessive secret survaliance that the Bush administration has wrought, has probably been pointed at all current and future legislators. My suspicion is this is why blue dogs and the GOP and even Democratic leaders toe the line and appear ineffective. Look at Spector, they seem to let his leash out a bit, but when he starts going to far he backs off. I think he has somthing to use. Pelosi behaves in the same way though a little more cunningly. Wouldn’t this be right up Karl Rowe’s alley?
Would love to see some more discussion on this issue.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 166
“I am in charge, here at the White House.” — Al Haig
Fix the election system.
Get rid of Bush & Co.
Take control of government.
Fix a bunch of problems.
It’s slow-going, but we’re getting there and a WHOLE lot of people are making it happen with the help of the Internet blogs which allow us to organize, raise money, pick candidates, communicate with each other and our government and media. It’s really amazing.
Now, get back to work!
katymine @ 191
Maybe we could handle Edwards/Clinton ‘08.
Tithonia @ 205
He’s a great speaker as EVERYONE knows. I wish we had more who were capable of that. I’m sure Howard Dean is envious…aaaaaarrrgggggh.
But, he tends to not think outside the box enough and is a little too DLCish for FDLers to support him.
Also, if you listen to one of his speeches he hits a lot of the right topics, but something isn’t quite right to my ears. You could say it’s naivete or immaturity or shallowness, but he makes mistakes which make me think he’s just not on the right page. Of course, he’s extremely good at getting back on track and making it look as if nothing happened. I’m sure all the candidates would love to be that good at the politickin’.
But, comparing his statements to Edwards we FLDers see Edwards as more concerned with people, more concerned with building relations internationally and definately someone with a history of fighting for the little guys. I can’t say for certain, but to me he seems more capable of either thinking outside the box (the one others create for you to bounce around in) or of simply having his own more appealing worldview.
Call it Left or Right, mature and immature, compassionate or whatever, Edwards is simply more appealing to us.
I sometimes find myself wishing that it would turn out that George W. Bush was really a Lex Luthor type evil genius and was only pretending to be a doofus.
Not only would that explain a lot of things, but it wouldn’t be as embarassing as having Mr. Potatoe-Head running our country.
Eli @ 221
Will she break the news about Freddie Thompsons “cleavage” (and I’m not referring to his trophy wife).
This is the reason for Democratic “ineptitude”, “cowardice” etc. The DO NOT WANT TO WIN. Why? If the Ds get the presidency and solid majorities in both houses, they will be forced to put up or lose all future support from their base.
The only reason the Ds have any support at all is that they have fooled a large number of people into thinking that they actually favor progressive policies and would implement them if only they could take power. They (their leadership, which still leads the party) actually favor pretty much the same policies as the Rs. They support the bare minimum of progressive figleafs in order to maintain that illusion. The real function of the party is to prevent a real opposition party from forming (with a huge assist from a severely anti-democratic electoral system).
The Democrats have showed great courage and cleverness in standing up for their principles in the face of massive opposition from the base of their party. This time is very dangerous for them because the Rs have alienated so much of the electorate that the Ds may be put in power with nothing to hide behind. Look forward to more massive “blunders” and “betrayals”. The latest Gallup poll has Congress far less popular than Bush.
quake @ 16
Oh my god. It is pretty obvious, once you point it out. That does explain a lot.
Eli @ 122
You forgot this possibility – it’s the mantra of most of the Democrats today:
Talk often and loudly, and carry a very, very, very small stick (a pin needle will do).
There is a theory that Bush and the GOP only pretend to be incompetent,…
Then like an old Mafia Don, pretending to be insane for decades, Dumbya has only been pretending to be incompetent since at least his college days and business “career”?
Now that’s some deep cover.
For what it is worth I have renamed the party the ” Republicant’s”. Simply put, they can’t do anything right.(9/11, Katrina, Delay, Foley, Nay, Iraq, immigration, etc.) But now that I have perused the other posts here it is a real possibility that these crooks have intentionally hood winked, stumbled and fumbled their way to the pot of gold. Just remember the R mantra -”Greed is Good.”
I think impeachment is off the table because if Bush and Cheney were held responsible for their many crimes, our next president would be Nancy Pelosi, and that would take the historic wind out of our frontrunner’s sail. We don’t need to wait until 2009 to have a woman president and we certainly don’t need to wait more than 20 years to have a president whose name is not Bush or Clinton.
Gore/Obama 2008
The basic inquiry that starts the analysis of every good lawyer and policeman is, “Who benefits?” Here, it is clear that every “blunder” committed by the Bushies had the direct effect of benefiting one of their most-favored constituencies. I don’t believe in coincidence to the degree required to believe that this was not a deliberate programmed approach.
Looking at it from a slightly different angle, if facts come out that make you look bad enough in public that some explanation is demanded, would you rather appear to be criminal or would you rather appear to be stupid? Clearly, stupid has less serious consequences in such a context. Which is why every shit-faced politician (and all other kinds of evildoers since Reagan perfected the gambit) universally adopt the “I was stupid” defense when cornered.
Bush and his cronies may be mentally defective in many ways, but nobody is bad at everything, and what these folks excel at is secrecy, scheming, manipulation, and being revoltingly amoral.