zed?

Jane!

dang, i walked back in from lunch and here was my little zed waiting for me! :-)

I believe this because Karl Rove says so.

Brain bleach!

But– but– he’s a genius!

I’m worried, people…

If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

Yep.

Jane Sez!

EPU’d…Re-post??

Are cracks appearing in the MSM?

SECAUCUS, N.J., August 20, 2007 – MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann will bring his unique take on the day’s events, from politics to pop culture, to a primetime network audience this Sunday night. A special edition of “Countdown with Keith Olbermann” will air on Sunday, August 26th at 7 p.m. ET/6 p.m. CT on NBC, leading into the network’s “Sunday Night Football” pre-season NFL matchup between the Philadelphia Eagles and the Pittsburgh Steelers, live at 8 p.m. ET. Olbermann is joining the network’s “Football Night in America” studio team this season. The special edition of “Countdown” will be broadcast live from MSNBC’s studios.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/n….._65388.asp

If they decided to have Countdown before every Sunday Nite football…the wing-nuts’ heads will explode..it just might push O’Reilly into complete insanity.

Was the republican victory in the 2004 presidential race more attributable to Rover’s alleged “genius” or John Kerry’s failure to respond to the Swift Boat Liars in a timely and complete manner, thus allowing a draft-dodging fat man and his deserting sidekick to malign him without response?

Methinks it was the latter, but then WTF do I know?

Maybe the machines did not work the way rove wanted them to.

If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

I sure hope you’re right. I think KKKarl wants Hillary to run against because of her high negatives and the fact that she may be the one thing that will get their base stirred to action.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

can’t agree with you on that one – classic rovian reverse psychology.

(or was that tongue-in-cheek?)

dave @ 5

But– but– he’s a genius geniass!

I’m worried, people…

fixed your typo :)

oh, yeah… Hi Jane :)

Steve-AR, we watch football all day on sunday. Even at night. Aunt Betsy and my brother are huge NFL fans. Different teams.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

I agree completely.

Karl Rove got into the heads of a lot of Democrats. John Kerry and Bob Shrum in particular. Dems need to stop being afraid. Start playing our game. On issue after issue the country is with us. Be a Democrat. Be a liberal. Be a progressive. And the **** with Karl Rove.

Sorry for the OT

Public Notice

Due to my impending retirement from the subway, I will be changing my blog handle to “Astral Technician” AsTech for short.

Shortly.

“They will make gains that will ultimately be characterized by the news media as “disappointing”.”

I don’t much care what the news media thinks. Regarding the Dems failure to mount any substantive opposition to Bush policy, I am indeed disappointed.

Subway Serenade @ 18

Sorry for the OT

Public Notice

Due to my impending retirement from the subway, I will be changing my blog handle to “Astral Technician” AsTech for short.

Shortly.

cool name!

jim oconnor @ 17

Karl Rove got into the heads of a lot of Democrats. John Kerry and Bob Shrum in particular. Dems need to stop being afraid. Start playing our game. On issue after issue the country is with us. Be a Democrat. Be a liberal. Be a progressive. And the **** with Karl Rove.

Karl Rove did get George W Bush into the White House for TWO terms, that’s something.

something awful, but it’s something.

California and electronic voting – that is what I am most worried about.

testing

http://55-40.blogspot.com/2007…..tball.html.Peter Wallsten in the LA Times is catching on to the Karl Rove strategy.

Day after day last week, outgoing White House political strategist Karl Rove delivered slashing attacks on Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Democratic presidential front-runner. Her healthcare record was “spotty and poor,” he declared. Her candidacy was “fatally flawed,” he said. And no one with her negative poll numbers, he stated, “has ever won the presidency.”

Why did Rove, who often stays in the background, step forward to deliver such public attacks — especially when the Democrats haven’t begun to choose their presidential candidate for 2008 and when the general election is more than a year away?

The answer might seem obvious: Rove saw Clinton as a formidable opponent and wanted to get his licks in early.

For high-level campaign professionals like Rove, however, that kind of thinking may be too simple.

The decision to focus on the New York senator to the exclusion of other potentially formidable Democratic standard-bearers such as Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois offered a rare glimpse into a world where things are not always what they seem — the world of modern-day electioneering, whose denizens often prefer going from A to B by way of Z.

In this case, Rove’s weeklong broadside against Clinton — which he is expected to repeat in multiple appearances on television talk shows today — looks suspiciously like an exercise in reverse psychology that his team employed three years ago when it was preparing for President Bush’s reelection bid.

The ploy was described by Rove lieutenant Matthew Dowd during a postmortem conference on the 2004 election at Harvard University the month after Bush defeated Democratic Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.

In the run-up to the 2004 Democratic National Convention, when it was not yet clear who Bush’s opponent would be that November, Rove and his aides had begun to fear that their most dangerous foe would be then-Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina.

With his Southern base, charismatic style and populist message, Edwards, they believed, could be a real threat to Bush’s reelection.

But instead of attacking Edwards, Rove’s team opened fire at Kerry.

Their thinking went like this, Dowd explained: Democrats, in a knee-jerk reaction to GOP attacks, would rally around Kerry, whom Rove considered a comparatively weak opponent, and make him the party’s nominee. Thus Bush would be spared from confronting Edwards, the candidate Republican strategists actually feared most.

Unlike Kerry, who had been in public service for decades, Edwards was a political newcomer and lacked a long record that could be attacked. And, unlike former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, who had been the front-runner but whose campaign was collapsing in Iowa, Edwards couldn’t easily be painted as “nutty.”

If that sounds implausibly convoluted, consider Dowd’s own words:

“Whomever we attacked was going to be emboldened in Democratic primary voters’ minds.

“So we started attacking John Kerry a lot in the end of January because we were very worried about John Edwards,” Dowd said. “And we knew that if we focused on John Kerry, Democratic primary voters would sort of coalesce” around Kerry.

“It wasn’t like we could tag [eliminate] somebody. Whomever we attacked was going to be helped,” he said.

Nicolle Wallace, the 2004 Bush campaign communications director, recalled at the Harvard conference that the campaign “refused” to even respond to Edwards’ attacks on Bush, not wanting to make him seem like a threat.

Edwards was selected as Kerry’s running mate and now is vying with Clinton and Obama for their party’s 2008 nomination.

Is Rove playing a similar game against Clinton? Is he trying to stampede Democrats into nominating her, having concluded that Obama, Edwards or someone else would pose a stiffer challenge to the Republican nominee?

It’s like I’ve been saying. The Republicans want us to pick Hillary Clinton, because they’re ready to cream her in the general. And, because we’re like perennial loser Charlie Brown (to Karl Rove’s Lucy van Pelt), we’re likely to fall into the trap. Again.

Astral Tecnician @ 23

testing

it’s the new you!

MayDaze @ 11

I think KKKarl wants Hillary to run against because of her high negatives and the fact that she may be the one thing that will get their base stirred to action.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

If KKKarl wants to see “negatives” all he has to do is look at those attached to his boss (or soon-2-B X-Boss). I seriously doubt anyone in America who’s not part of “the base” (gee, doesn’t that translate to ummm, al-qaeda in arabic or something) would ever vote for another Bush again.

Alright. Who the fuck is Mr. Cranky? And I should care why?

Wait, how do we know this isn’t extra-ultra-hyper-double-reverse psychology?

spell check

Jo Fish @ 9

Was the republican victory in the 2004 presidential race more attributable to Rover’s alleged “genius” or John Kerry’s failure to respond to the Swift Boat Liars in a timely and complete manner, thus allowing a draft-dodging fat man and his deserting sidekick to malign him without response?

Methinks it was the latter, but then WTF do I know?

I think it was largely attributable to Rove’s actual “genius,” which was for vote suppression, dirty tricks, and making government an arm of the GOP. Including, for example, making sure that the management of political events in Iraq served the short-term interests of the GOP, at the expense of the long-term interests of the United States and Iraqis (purple fingers! get that constitution approved; we can leave the hard stuff till later!)

Elliot @ 21: Timidity by the Gore and Kerry campaigns got chimpy elected as much as anything Rove did. IMO.

Bearpaw @ 28

Wait, how do we know this isn’t extra-ultra-hyper-double-reverse psychology?

That’s 5 which makes it regular psychology. Unless one is a double built in.

jim oconnor @ 31

Elliot @ 21: Timidity by the Gore and Kerry campaigns got chimpy elected as much as anything Rove did. IMO.

I would agree they were factors in their own defeats.

Did Rove ever say anything that was true?

OK, So it is conventional wisdom that impeachment hearings will hurt democrats. And conventional wisdom is worth how much?

IMPEACH

I personally won’t be too thrilled to see clinton as the candidate

too much corporate control, in bed with consolidated media too

I am hoping something happens that eliminates her from the field and she is not the one we choose

sorry

Elliott @ 33

jim oconnor @ 31

Elliot @ 21: Timidity by the Gore and Kerry campaigns got chimpy elected as much as anything Rove did. IMO.

I would agree they were factors in their own defeats.

Timidity means being shy or afraid, right? So what were they shy about?

Redshift @ 30

I think it was largely attributable to Rove’s actual “genius,” which was for vote suppression, dirty tricks, and making government an arm of the GOP. Including, for example, making sure that the management of political events in Iraq served the short-term interests of the GOP, at the expense of the long-term interests of the United States and Iraqis (purple fingers! get that constitution approved; we can leave the hard stuff till later!)

Well yeah, there was that too … the whole government became/has become somewhat of the political arm of the GOP, from heck-uva job Brownie to “cave-in” Stickler and all the appointees between.

SnarKassandra @ 37

Elliott @ 33

I would agree they were factors in their own defeats.

Timidity means being shy or afraid, right? So what were they shy about?

some might say Rove’s projects.

SnarKassandra @ 34

Did Rove ever say anything that was true?

Oh, I’m sure he’s told the truth often.

After all, one of the best ways to mislead someone is to tell the truth unconvincingly.

I do wish my party were a bit more outspoken about things. The most outspoken Democrats are Kucinich, Edwards and a very few more. And there is Gore.

SnarKassandra @ 34

Did Rove ever say anything that was true?

Lies all the time!

One example: On MTP yesterday, he repeated the lie that Saddam was given “every opportunity” to allow weapon inspections and Saddam refused.

Snarky- uh, not fighting for the recount and being old-school polite in dealing with thugs (yes, thugs) and allowing the bushies to frame the battle in FLA in 2000 without response (remember the “Brooks Brothers “”riot”"?) and the Swift Boat Liars campaign? Any bells ringing here?

MayDaze @ 11

If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

I sure hope you’re right. I think KKKarl wants Hillary to run against because of her high negatives and the fact that she may be the one thing that will get their base stirred to action.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

I think they fear most what Edwards would do if elected, but they fear Hillary more in the election.

That said, considering their recent track record, I don’t think it’s worth bothering to react to their hopes and fears about our candidates; they’re most likely wrong anyway.

catfood @ 19

“They will make gains that will ultimately be characterized by the news media as “disappointing”.”

I don’t much care what the news media thinks. Regarding the Dems failure to mount any substantive opposition to Bush policy, I am indeed disappointed.

Great handle, catfood. Perhaps a lot of little old ladies are eating catfood lately. I shall only feel sentimental for the ones that voted Democratic.

Though, I did help an old blind Republican (is there any other kind? blind, I mean.) woman cross the street who told me that she “thank[s] God every day that George Bush is President”.

If I were a Karl Rove whom worked for the Democrats, I would have guided her into oncoming traffic. The ends justify the means. She is a very dependable Republican voter, after all.

MayDaze @ 42

SnarKassandra @ 34

Did Rove ever say anything that was true?

All the same rethug talking points you’ve heard over and over. One example: On MTP yesterday, he repeated the lie that Saddam was given “every opportunity” to allow weapon inspections and Saddam refused.

Those are lies. I was asking about true stuff.

methinks rove believes his own hype cuz the MSN also calls him uhhhhhh “genius” now he feels he can tell dems who to select as candidate…. the fucking nerve of him…. march his lying ass off to somebody’s jail and quickly!!

MayDaze @ 11

If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

I sure hope you’re right. I think KKKarl wants Hillary to run against because of her high negatives and the fact that she may be the one thing that will get their base stirred to action.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

You are right. Back in 2004, the GOP was more afraid of Edwards than Kerry. It was why Rove began attacking Kerry. Rove figured the more he would attack Kerry, the more press and ultimately support he would receive. Rove knew Kerry was the easier Candidate to defeat.

Samestorythis time with Clinton.

I don’t think you need any special instinct to see that the time has run out on Rove…

But if you give any person a platform especially Rove you’ll bet he’ll use it…

Let me put the situation a bit more abruptly. I want the Democrats to start screaming their fucking heads off about where this nation is heading.

1,573 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:

“If Karl Rove says that Hilary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.”

She may well be able to “massacre any Republican opponent she might run against” and still be bad for Democrats. In fact, I believe that the corporate fascists will be better off with Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama than with any of the current crop of Republic candidates as long as the Congress stays in Democratic hands.

Trust me folks, the corporate oligarchy doesn’t want a Rethug President with the collapse of our economy and our military comin down the track in ‘09.

If Mrs. Clinton is the Democratic candidate, I will work against her election and devote my time and meager resources to electing real Democrats to Congress.

KEEP THE FAITH AND BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!

Hmph. Everyone on the right coast must be clocking out and on the road or sompin’…LS @ 22

California and electronic voting – that is what I am most worried about.

Two words: Debra Bowen…

Jo Fish @ 43

Snarky- uh, not fighting for the recount and being old-school polite in dealing with thugs (yes, thugs) and allowing the bushies to frame the battle in FLA in 2000 without response (remember the “Brooks Brothers “”riot”"?) and the Swift Boat Liars campaign? Any bells ringing here?

wasn’t Tim Griffin (US Attorney AR) one of the rioters?

sd @ 12

Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

can’t agree with you on that one – classic rovian reverse psychology.

(or was that tongue-in-cheek?)

I’m with sd on this one. They attacked Kerry in 04 because they were afraid of Edwards.
They’re afraid of someone right now, but I don’t think it’s Hillary.

yellowdogD @ 54

sd @ 12

can’t agree with you on that one – classic rovian reverse psychology.

(or was that tongue-in-cheek?)

I’m with sd on this one. They attacked Kerry in 04 because they were afraid of Edwards.
They’re afraid of someone right now, but I don’t think it’s Hillary.

Any of the dens could beat them. My cousin likes Obama and I like Edwards and Kucinich, but any of them is a zillion times better than George.

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

SnarKassandra @ 46

MayDaze @ 42

All the same rethug talking points you’ve heard over and over. One example: On MTP yesterday, he repeated the lie that Saddam was given “every opportunity” to allow weapon inspections and Saddam refused.

Those are lies. I was asking about true stuff.

Yeah, caught too late that you said true instead of untrue. Fixed it, but you were just too quick!

Can’t come up with anything off the top of my head, but good liars always mix truth and half-truth in with the lies. Gotta keep ‘em guessing!

Hillary is at her highest negatives now..15 months before the election. She has been trashed by the right wing for twenty-five years and has survived. The “boys” who want the nomination really don’t understand, at an emotional, what is going to hit them and their families. Does anyone think that Hillary will be timid and hold back against any and all attacks. Of the “boys”, I think Edwards is the only one tough enough to survive.

New lead at TPMMuck:

Bradley Schlozman, a former Justice Department official who was at the center of the U.S. attorneys scandal and is under investigation by the Departments inspector general for his alleged efforts to politicize the Civil Rights Division, has finally left his post at the Department.

Redshift @ 44

MayDaze @ 11

If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

I sure hope you’re right. I think KKKarl wants Hillary to run against because of her high negatives and the fact that she may be the one thing that will get their base stirred to action.

I think the right has been pillorying Edwards because he’s the Dem they fear the most.

I think they fear most what Edwards would do if elected, but they fear Hillary more in the election.

That said, considering their recent track record, I don’t think it’s worth bothering to react to their hopes and fears about our candidates; they’re most likely wrong anyway.

Actually I think they fear Edwards more for both which is why he has been sabotaged so much.

I think rove needs to help out susan collins.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

I hate pink – am female. I have met very few women who actually like pink.

Elliott @ 53

Jo Fish @ 43

Snarky- uh, not fighting for the recount and being old-school polite in dealing with thugs (yes, thugs) and allowing the bushies to frame the battle in FLA in 2000 without response (remember the “Brooks Brothers “”riot”"?) and the Swift Boat Liars campaign? Any bells ringing here?

wasn’t Tim Griffin (US Attorney AR) one of the rioters?

Why isn’t Tim in jail yet and where’s Palast and Conyers?

Let’s look at the upside.

Roverer has made it possible for deserters, draft dodgers & stone cowards to smear Veterans & War Heroes….and republican scumbags will vote for them !

Twain @ 62

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

I hate pink – am female. I have met very few women who actually like pink.

I like purple and green and some pink. But mostly purple and green.

yellowdogjim@54

agreed – they dont fear hillary at all – she’d continue bushco’s acts imo…. now edwards yessss

Astral Tecnician @ 23

testing

were you previously a subway musician? and are you now a star repairman? Jes’ curious…….

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Hey thanks OKK,
I’m fascinated by this stuff. And I like pink and I don’t care who knows it. Blue has never been my favorite color.

bob @ 24

It’s like I’ve been saying. The Republicans want us to pick Hillary Clinton, because they’re ready to cream her in the general.

Or perhaps, the corporations that own both parties would like Clinton in, so as to prolong a continuance of their strategic objectives…Thus, Rove (ever eager to teabag the holders of real power) has ‘volunteered’ himself to misdirect the yahoo base, with an eye to disenfranchisement…While whipping up a contra emotionally-based popular movement to ‘aid the cause’.

Jo Fish @ 43

Snarky- uh, not fighting for the recount and being old-school polite in dealing with thugs (yes, thugs) and allowing the bushies to frame the battle in FLA in 2000 without response (remember the “Brooks Brothers “”riot”"?) and the Swift Boat Liars campaign? Any bells ringing here?

For 2004, maybe, for 2000, it’s a lot of hindsight. The main flaw in 2000 was not realizing that these people weren’t playing by any laws or rules (for example, we didn’t know about where the mob came from in the “Brooks Brothers Riot” until after the election.) In 2000, an awful lot of us still believed we were in a hard-fought contest to win a legitimate election, not a bare-knuckles fight to seize power by any means necessary, and I don’t believe there was any way for the Gore campaign to know that before it was too late.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Male crabs have blue claws and females have pink claws..gender based creationism at work.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

I’m glad to see that. I really hated Hillary’s pink ensemble in the first debate. Hillary needs more votes from women than men, perhaps.

I too am afraid of Hillary’s ties to the corporatocracy. They are the ties that bind. How I wish Kucinich would be our candidate.

In the end, I will vote for the candidate who wins the primary. Hillary may be the one.

I was thinking Astec in honor of Pach

Steve-AR @ 71

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Male crabs have blue claws and females have pink claws..gender based creationism at work.

Is that so they fall in love with each other’s claws?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

This actually looks like a pretty sad piece of research. There is no control for culture influence, no historical perspective (e.g. it was only in the last couple of centuries that ping was associated with women and girls. It was for a time thought to be too strong of a color for them…). The logic is of about the same quality as that of the Harvard president who conclude women are less suited for math and science since there are fewer of them in those fields. Nice circle.

LS @ 22

California and electronic voting – that is what I am most worried about.

And these practice runs of rounding up ‘illegals’. There’s going to be a huge sweep before the election.

Twain @ 62

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

I hate pink – am female. I have met very few women who actually like pink.

I’m skeptical of this too. There’s a picture of my great grandfather in his christening gown a little before 1900. We still have that baby gown in my family, and it’s a faded pink color. Cutural conditioning is very powerful and babies are surprisingly cogent. I have no doubts that any observed color preferences could be imprinted well before a year of age and certainly by six months…

In any case, the researcher loses massive points for a gratuitous Eve and the fruit connection :-P

I do not own one pink item in my closet and I have tons of clothes. Never liked it.

Froomkin’s up with a column on Rove. Amid all the “if Karl said it, it must be so” dreck and dross in the traditional media was some interesting through-the-looking-glass speculation that his high-visiblity trashing of Hillary Clinton is a “please-don’t-throw-me-in-the-briar-patch” tactic. A Rovian Fake-Out, as Froomkin puts it. (How “Rovian” of him).

So, in a reverse-psychology mindset, Rove figures the Democrats will do what he says they shouldn’t do, because he says it. Because he really thinks that Hillary is the candidate that Republicans have the best chance to beat . . . or at least is more afraid of an Edwards or Obama.

OTOH, why was he recently praising the acumen of Rahm Emanuel?

OTOH 2, why should we even put any energy or attention on what Rove says? Unless it’s under oath in front of Leahy or Conyers, or a federal judge.

Snarkassandra @ 37: I think they were afraid of losing. They bought into an idea that they couldn’t win with a campaign based on traditional Democratic principles.

I think the roots of this go back to Reagan and the defeats the Dems suffered after Carter. Clinton won two elections as a Republican-lite candidate and the Dem establishment adopted the strategy that in order for Dems to win they couldn’t be real Dems.

SnarKassandra @ 37

Elliott @ 33

I would agree they were factors in their own defeats.

Timidity means being shy or afraid, right? So what were they shy about?

They were afraid of being declared “soft on ____” (fill in the blank with whatever the current fear is). I think the way they can kill that meme once and for all is to develop some spine, and get some transplants for those rubbery knees and attack Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, and the rubber-stamp Republicans. Instead, they spend too much time wringing their hands and whining about not having enough votes, and then voting to give the Republicans whatever they want. Pfaugh! They don’t have enough cajones to push back. The public doesn’t think they’re too shy; the public thinks they’re too weak.

Bob in HI

Jo Fish @ 9

Was the republican victory in the 2004 presidential race more attributable to Rover’s alleged “genius” or John Kerry’s failure to respond to the Swift Boat Liars in a timely and complete manner, thus allowing a draft-dodging fat man and his deserting sidekick to malign him without response?

Methinks it was the latter, but then WTF do I know?

Kerry was too beholden to the consultant class. Does anyone here know how we can start a consultant business as it relates to elections. I bet we could get eight to ten people from FDL together and kick the snot out of most, if not all Republicans.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Don’t know where this research is coming from…

I come from a family of four girls…

A long time ago my mom bought me and one of my other sisters a pink and a blue mirror…

I remember us fighting over the blue one….

Not that I care for blue now, mind you…

jim oconnor @ 80

Snarkassandra @ 37: I think they were afraid of losing. They bought into an idea that they couldn’t win with a campaign based on traditional Democratic principles.

I think the roots of this go back to Reagan and the defeats the Dems suffered after Carter. Clinton won two elections as a Republican-lite candidate and the Dem establishment adopted the strategy that in order for Dems to win they couldn’t be real Dems.

But didn’t Carter lose because the economy was in the crapper, and because he couldn’t resolve the Iranian hostage crisis?

I’m a painter, and there is no color that I dislike.

For the moment, I’m going with the viable candidate with the progressive message – John Edwards.

Next week, who knows.

I could care less what Karl Rove thinks. He represents the dirty politics of the past.

We want change in America, and we’re getting it, slowly but surely.

Change was the mantra of the Clinton run for the presidency and it will be the mantra again in ‘08.

SnarKassandra @ 74

Steve-AR @ 71

Male crabs have blue claws and females have pink claws..gender based creationism at work.

Is that so they fall in love with each other’s claws?

LOL!

A blue-lovin’ female here . . .

Pink is better for wearing with jeans, and better when it is hot outside. Blue is better because it makes my eyes shine more. And purple is just more fun.

jane-
i’m thinkin’ ol’ karl’s ‘antennae’ needs adjusted, he’s been waaaaaaaay of on his calls for a while now……..it’s come to-if karl says it, do the opposite and you win….it’s almost like he’s out-thinking himself, overanalyzing to the point of implosion…..or infraction………don’t see his sightseeing worth being worth gold anymore……..

posted both of these earlier…….there is a quote in here about how he was instructed to perform the interviews yesterday……it’s a short one….has links to his sunday appearances……..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..newsletter

this one is about his political moves…..hatch violations…..is a longer article, but interesting….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..newsletter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..newsletter

Joe @ 84: I agree with those points. Don’t forget Teddy K didn’t help by challenging Carter. (I love Ted, but that’s a blemish to be sure).

Rove made a comment during one of his Sunday appearances that he “was doing what he was instructed to do”.

Who did the instructing? The shrub, cheney, who else?

So is Rove the new Shrum, destined to consult for a string of Republican losers, simply because no-one in the party can come up with a better system even though his is not working?

One can hope.

juslin @ 66

yellowdogjim@54

agreed – they dont fear hillary at all – she’d continue bushco’s acts imo…. now edwards yessss

That was yellowdogD at 54. I’m sure yellowdogjim is a fine person, but he shouldn’t get credit (or blame) for whatever I may say. g;)

Former Fed @ 90

Rove made a comment during one of his Sunday appearances that he “was doing what he was instructed to do”.

Who did the instructing? The shrub, cheney, who else?

God of course!

maybe it’s not so much that girls like pink but that boys just hate it… when I was working in a “non-traditional” position, the guys used to steal all my tools… so I painted ‘em all pink…. you never saw such upset! “we can’t use THOSE tools!” they cried…

which, of course, was exactly my intent.

There is only one way that the next President will be Republican – it would have to be the result of criminal actions.

Former Fed @ 90

Rove made a comment during one of his Sunday appearances that he “was doing what he was instructed to do”.

Who did the instructing? The shrub, cheney, who else?

Satan!

 tonight=
Larry King Live: Christiane Amanpour

for those of you with cable…….

I vote with the folks who think KKKarl wants the Republicans to be fighting Hillary in the general election. It remains to be seen if his sneaky tactics this time are correct or flawed. The way I feel about Hillary right now, she would be my least favorite of the Democratic front runners. The more I look at Hillary, the more Republican she seems. Then I feel guilty for thinking that. I do think Edwards or Obama would be a better choice. I’m leaning toward Obama because although I like what Edwards has to say, he seems to be floundering more and more in the way he says it. I’m past hoping that Gore would run, but if he did, I would support him all the way.

couple who wore anti-bush t-shirts on with barnicle bill now on misnbc

Elliott @ 25

Astral Tecnician @ 23

testing

it’s the new you!

You will always be Elliott to me :-/

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Looks like crap research to me. Any time you have a test done with adults, with no cross-cultural research, and the researcher starts talking about an evolutionary basis without any consideration for cultural influences, it’s crap. And the “men as hunters, women as gatherers” interpretation just adds to the impression that the researcher, who is described as a neuroscientist, understands little of anthropology or evolutionary biology, but is nonetheless willing to speak out authoritatively on a interpretation that involves both.

SnarKassandra @ 10

Maybe the machines did not work the way rove wanted them to.

It takes some planning to steal an election. Rove had maybe a dozen house races and a few senatorial races picked out in early 2006 that he considered pivotal. But things just got worse. He probably tried gaming a few more, but it gets riskier when rushed. Bottom line, he did steal quite a few. On others, he was wrong when he thought a margin of X would suffice. And then there were a bunch he hadn’t even planned on. We probably should have 4 or so more senate seats and 15 or so house seats. But I suspect the machines he gamed performed as planned.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 50

Let me put the situation a bit more abruptly. I want the Democrats to start screaming their fucking heads off about where this nation is heading.

Wow, OKK, I’ve never heard you so heated. Lahoma, you’d better calm him down ;-).

Astral technician is EllieT?

latest from Utah: they are going to leave those 6 guys down there…….and THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE MINING.

If that doesn’t spark some kind of public outrage, we truly are a nation of brain dead zombies.

oregondave @ 79

Froomkin’s up with a column on Rove. Amid all the “if Karl said it, it must be so” dreck and dross in the traditional media was some interesting through-the-looking-glass speculation that his high-visiblity trashing of Hillary Clinton is a “please-don’t-throw-me-in-the-briar-patch” tactic. A Rovian Fake-Out, as Froomkin puts it. (How “Rovian” of him).

So, in a reverse-psychology mindset, Rove figures the Democrats will do what he says they shouldn’t do, because he says it. Because he really thinks that Hillary is the candidate that Republicans have the best chance to beat . . . or at least is more afraid of an Edwards or Obama.

OTOH, why was he recently praising the acumen of Rahm Emanuel?

OTOH 2, why should we even put any energy or attention on what Rove says? Unless it’s under oath in front of Leahy or Conyers, or a federal judge.

Rove knows that the best chance they have of keeping the WH is if Hillary is the nominee(I am not saying the Republicans will win mind you). The wing-nuts hate and fear the Clintons. Why, I am not really sure. It’s funny that the right smears them as Soc*al*sts. Look at the polls. At this point, both Edwards and Obama wipe the floor with any of the potential Republican nominees. There just isn’t the hate on the right for those two as there is against HRC. It’s the only thing that has a chance of saving the Republican party from 30 years in the wilderness.

…They still have Diebold. Gee, two years, and two more years, we’ve known they were as crooked a snake in a basket. But, ummm, err, ahhh, mmmm, we can not change it? You dont think Rove the Roach will let that asset slip away do you? He’s free to spread his seed all over everywhere. And he’s smart enough not to use a small plane. Damnitall.

OldCoastie @ 93

maybe it’s not so much that girls like pink but that boys just hate it… when I was working in a “non-traditional” position, the guys used to steal all my tools… so I painted ‘em all pink…. you never saw such upset! “we can’t use THOSE tools!” they cried…

which, of course, was exactly my intent.

Brilliant!

LS @ 94

There is only one way that the next President will be Republican – it would have to be the result of criminal actions.

You mean, just like 2000 and 2004?

OldCoastie @ 93

maybe it’s not so much that girls like pink but that boys just hate it… when I was working in a “non-traditional” position, the guys used to steal all my tools… so I painted ‘em all pink…. you never saw such upset! “we can’t use THOSE tools!” they cried…

Still cultural conditioning. Just look at what a boy faces if others think he’s the slightest bit “girly.” Whether or not he likes pink isn’t operative here…it’s whether or not he wants to be beaten up by everyone else…

which, of course, was exactly my intent.

Ha ha ha ha…have seen the same technique elsewhere: sister gets a pink ipod, brother stops taking hers, etc.

oops my bad yellowdog – kids underfoot here – got distracted – pardonnez-moi svp

Hillary is the most Republican like Dem and she is in the lead.. What better worst result could the thugs like Rove, A*P*C, and PNAC hope for than someone who will continue illegal occupations while neo con fascists regroup and conspire for a return to power.. picking up militarily where they left off. Like they did after Bill who maintained a presence (death by sanctions) in the middle east.

It keeps being said that Bush won 2 pres elections. No, he didn’t. He lost 2 elections. Stealing is not the same as winning. Maybe the American people are not as gullible as we think. If Rove is a genius, then his strength was in knowing where to purge black voters, where to force people to stand in line for 6hrs to vote, who to bribe to fix the voting machines and knowing which Supreme Court Justice to send on a junket. That’s his genius.

The Rank’s are on Hardball explaining the free speech case they won!

jim oconnor @ 80

Snarkassandra @ 37: I think they were afraid of losing. They bought into an idea that they couldn’t win with a campaign based on traditional Democratic principles.

I think the roots of this go back to Reagan and the defeats the Dems suffered after Carter. Clinton won two elections as a Republican-lite candidate and the Dem establishment adopted the strategy that in order for Dems to win they couldn’t be real Dems.

Clinton won because he knew the economy was going to tank and “it’s the economy stupid” was the focus of the campaign. I was in a small group of people and Clinton was there. This was 1987..someone asked if he was going to run for President..he said a Dem couldn’t win because the economy looked too good..but that was going to change and then he would run.

Richmond @ 99

Elliott @ 25

it’s the new you!

You will always be Elliott to me :-/

Subway Serenade is changing to Astral Technician, I’ll always be Elliott to you. :)
and you, too, ccmask

juslin @ 98

couple who wore anti-bush t-shirts on with barnicle bill now on misnbc

So Tweety and Big Punkinhead are taking the whole summer off(seems like it anyway)?

SnarKassandra @ 92

Former Fed @ 90

Rove made a comment during one of his Sunday appearances that he “was doing what he was instructed to do”.

Who did the instructing? The shrub, cheney, who else?

God of course!

Actually, Rove is on record as viewing Christian evangelicals aa useful idiots, or something to that effect. I don’t think God has much to do with it.

Bob in HI

I think there are about 10 million women who would vote for Hillary on health care alone if only they’d register to vote.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 113

juslin @ 98

couple who wore anti-bush t-shirts on with barnicle bill now on misnbc

So Tweety and Big Punkinhead are taking the whole summer off(seems like it anyway)?

Their lips need a rest, know what I’m sayin?

steve ar at 71 says-”Male crabs have blue claws and females have pink claws..gender based creationism at work.”

i NEVER KNEW THAT……….i’m remembering goin’ soft shell crabbing with my step-sister and her partner, i don’t remember any pink claws…….none……..what kind of crabs have this blue/pink thing goin’ on? maybe we caught all males………norfolk, virginia…….loved it, one of my fondest memories……got to see the calypso once, too…….it was going into dry dock, so was there for the viewing.

Actually, Rove is on record as viewing Christian evangelicals aa useful idiots, or something to that effect. I don’t think God has much to do with it.

Bob in HI

Let’s stick to stuff he is wrong about! :)

juslin @ 66

yellowdogjim@54

agreed – they dont fear hillary at all – she’d continue bushco’s acts imo…. now edwards yessss

and i agree with both you,
However
yellowdogD
is not
Yellowdog Jim:
similar pedigrees though.
no foul; no harm.

Gee whiz. I had no idea this pink and blue business would cause such a commotion. Lahoma is still stuck to the ceiling. :0)

oregondave @ 106

LS @ 94

There is only one way that the next President will be Republican – it would have to be the result of criminal actions.

You mean, just like 2000 and 2004?

Good godess, why would I mean something like that!?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 120

Gee whiz. I had no idea this pink and blue business would cause such a commotion. Lahoma is still stuck to the ceiling. :0)

maybe you could get her down if you offered her a nice ripe peach.

Steve-AR @ 112

jim oconnor @ 80

Snarkassandra @ 37: I think they were afraid of losing. They bought into an idea that they couldn’t win with a campaign based on traditional Democratic principles.

I think the roots of this go back to Reagan and the defeats the Dems suffered after Carter. Clinton won two elections as a Republican-lite candidate and the Dem establishment adopted the strategy that in order for Dems to win they couldn’t be real Dems.

Clinton won because he knew the economy was going to tank and “it’s the economy stupid” was the focus of the campaign. I was in a small group of people and Clinton was there. This was 1987..someone asked if he was going to run for President..he said a Dem couldn’t win because the economy looked too good..but that was going to change and then he would run.

Along those lines, H. Clinton’s recent talking points on the mortgage and other financial market woes may have the same impact in this race.

raven and JKC – LMAO!!! but sooooooo true!!

actually I’m a little confused about what a “yellowdog” is. I know that “bluedogs” aren’t good……

Speaking as a woman who loves red and outgrew pink before I outgrew dolls, I have to say I resent Nancy Regan for co-opting my favorite color and making it political. I’ve never been a blue fan when it comes to clothes or decorating. I’m only blue when it comes to politics.

Margot @ 116

I think there are about 10 million women who would vote for Hillary on health care alone if only they’d register to vote.

I would help get out the vote for a candidate who sincerely intends to move us over to single payer.

Why should I lie for Hillary? Think I’ll stick with the Norskefalmethrower and Blue America program.

Heh, speaking of pink tools.
I have a LOT of Snap On tools, they are extremely expensive, think $20 for a screwdriver expensive, but, they have the lifetime warranty.
I have a set of orange screwdrivers that cost well over a hundred bucks and one of them went to hell on me, the handle And the driver.I get it fixed and remember I lost a little pick. I ask for a new one and all he has is one with a pink handle. No thanks I say. He says it will be a month before I can get another one , they are on back order. I say , only if you give it to me, I ain’t payin for no pink handle. He finally agrees and you should have seen the teasing I got for it. Somehow I have manged to lose that one again.

Heidi Fleiss endorses Hillary. Ain’t that sweeet!

oddmommy @ 125

actually I’m a little confused about what a “yellowdog” is. I know that “bluedogs” aren’t good……

They’re retrievers.

Marretta @ 126

Speaking as a woman who loves red and outgrew pink before I outgrew dolls, I have to say I resent Nancy Regan for co-opting my favorite color and making it political. I’ve never been a blue fan when it comes to clothes or decorating. I’m only blue when it comes to politics.

I’m a red lover too. And my daughter hates pink.

EPU ed on skube.

see http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/024644.php

for Josh Marshall taking him to task for taking TPM to task for lack of investigative journalism in the LAT article

turned out that our fearless fosdick did not know TPM at all. the editor of the LAT made the addition. so Skube told Josh he was willing to give me the benefit of the doubt

so much for journalistic invesitgative research

seems our fearless fosdick was a pulitzer prize winner for criticism before becoming an academic at Elon School of Journalism. an asst. prof, so up for review surely. anyone who wants to send his dean some critical reviews of his current research will find the address on the Elon page.

Here’s an item that must surely have Karl shaking in his booties.

A top Senate Democrat on Monday threatened to hold members of the Bush administration in contempt for not producing subpoenaed information about the legal justification for President Bush’s secretive eavesdropping program.

“When the Senate comes back in the session, I’ll bring it up before the committee,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. “I prefer cooperation to contempt. Right now, there’s no question that they are in contempt of the valid order of the Congress.”

Marretta @ 127

Speaking as a woman who loves red and outgrew pink before I outgrew dolls, I have to say I resent Nancy Regan for co-opting my favorite color and making it political. I’ve never been a blue fan when it comes to clothes or decorating. I’m only blue when it comes to politics.

Whaaa-? Is Nancy Reagan the one responsible for flipping U.S.’s political colour associations as used by the rest of the world?

realworld @ 75

This actually looks like a pretty sad piece of research. There is no control for culture influence, no historical perspective (e.g. it was only in the last couple of centuries that ping was associated with women and girls. It was for a time thought to be too strong of a color for them…). The logic is of about the same quality as that of the Harvard president who conclude women are less suited for math and science since there are fewer of them in those fields. Nice circle.

Sadly, it didn’t stop with him — there are still scientists looking for biological factors that “explain” why there are fewer women in science careers, despite the copious evidence that it’s a cultural effect, such as the many countries in the world where women are the majority in those careers.

Bustednuckles @ 128

Heh, speaking of pink tools.
I have a LOT of Snap On tools, they are extremely expensive, think $20 for a screwdriver expensive, but, they have the lifetime warranty.
I have a set of orange screwdrivers that cost well over a hundred bucks and one of them went to hell on me, the handle And the driver.I get it fixed and remember I lost a little pick. I ask for a new one and all he has is one with a pink handle. No thanks I say. He says it will be a month before I can get another one , they are on back order. I say , only if you give it to me, I ain’t payin for no pink handle. He finally agrees and you should have seen the teasing I got for it. Somehow I have manged to lose that one again.

Have you tried the adjustable ratchets?

dmac @ 117

steve ar at 71 says-”Male crabs have blue claws and females have pink claws..gender based creationism at work.”

i NEVER KNEW THAT……….i’m remembering goin’ soft shell crabbing with my step-sister and her partner, i don’t remember any pink claws…….none……..what kind of crabs have this blue/pink thing goin’ on? maybe we caught all males………norfolk, virginia…….loved it, one of my fondest memories……got to see the calypso once, too…….it was going into dry dock, so was there for the viewing.

Chesapeake “Blue” crabs. I have been eating crabs my whole life and never paid any attention to claw color until my sister pointed it out a few years ago. I will have to check “soft” shells the next time I’m in Maryland.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 124

Gee whiz. I had no idea this pink and blue business would cause such a commotion. Lahoma is still stuck to the ceiling. :0)

Nothing but love—Oklahoma—-

pink, blue doesn’t really matter—

oddmommy @ 126

actually I’m a little confused about what a “yellowdog” is. I know that “bluedogs” aren’t good……

See Wiki. The Blue Dog coalition was formed in 1994 IIRC. The “yellow dogs” are an older version of traditional Democrat– see the Wikipedia for details.

Bob in HI

Bustednuckles @ 128

Heh, speaking of pink tools.
I have a LOT of Snap On tools, they are extremely expensive, think $20 for a screwdriver expensive, but, they have the lifetime warranty.
I have a set of orange screwdrivers that cost well over a hundred bucks and one of them went to hell on me, the handle And the driver.I get it fixed and remember I lost a little pick. I ask for a new one and all he has is one with a pink handle. No thanks I say. He says it will be a month before I can get another one , they are on back order. I say , only if you give it to me, I ain’t payin for no pink handle. He finally agrees and you should have seen the teasing I got for it. Somehow I have manged to lose that one again.

so no pink for manly men?

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

Oh yeah.Another hundred bucks.

Ed*ard Teller @ 59

New lead at TPMMuck:

Bradley Schlozman, a former Justice Department official who was at the center of the U.S. attorneys scandal and is under investigation by the Departments inspector general for his alleged efforts to politicize the Civil Rights Division, has finally left his post at the Department.

And another one down, and another one down!
Another one bites the dust!

Eureka Springs @ 141

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

And it is time for me to stop being an internet slug and go finish my summer reading list. (Aunt Betsy is awake, can ya tell?)

I once trained a young lady to be a mechanic,I have never seen so many pink tools.

It bothers me not in the least that Hillary’s campaign takes money from corporations, because I haven’t seen anyone show that her votes have been affected by said money.

They’re scared to death of her. She’s got the brain to beat them at their own game. It pisses them off seriously at the thought of a woman being president. Doesn’t fit in with the theocracy BS.

OKK, I like pink! How was the first day back?

Winner of the Democrats.com YouTube on impeachment.

Bustednuckles @ 129

Heh, speaking of pink tools.
I have a LOT of Snap On tools, they are extremely expensive, think $20 for a screwdriver expensive, but, they have the lifetime warranty.
I have a set of orange screwdrivers that cost well over a hundred bucks and one of them went to hell on me, the handle And the driver.I get it fixed and remember I lost a little pick. I ask for a new one and all he has is one with a pink handle. No thanks I say. He says it will be a month before I can get another one , they are on back order. I say , only if you give it to me, I ain’t payin for no pink handle. He finally agrees and you should have seen the teasing I got for it. Somehow I have manged to lose that one again.

see? works well! and I painted them a real purty pink too – a color that used to be referred to as “titty pink” (as in the Cadillac color)… never lost another tool…

bobschacht @ 139

oddmommy @ 126

actually I’m a little confused about what a “yellowdog” is. I know that “bluedogs” aren’t good……

See Wiki. The Blue Dog coalition was formed in 1994 IIRC. The “yellow dogs” are an older version of traditional Democrat– see the Wikipedia for details.

Bob in HI

gracias

Oklahoma kiddo @ 137

Here’s an item that must surely have Karl shaking in his booties.

A top Senate Democrat on Monday threatened to hold members of the Bush administration in contempt for not producing subpoenaed information about the legal justification for President Bush’s secretive eavesdropping program.

“When the Senate comes back in the session, I’ll bring it up before the committee,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. “I prefer cooperation to contempt. Right now, there’s no question that they are in contempt of the valid order of the Congress.”

Promises, promises.

Eureka Springs @ 143

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

We do need equal time, but in a series of actual one-on-one debates, not these cattle-call soundbite contests. Look up how the French presidential debates worked; that’s something I’d really like to see here.

and ok kiddo at 56…..the pink thing……i have always HATED pink……with a passion………sister likes it…….best friend loves red……i’ve always been partial to oranges, greens, blues……never pink……..still see pink and think, programmed girl color…….

in the fifth grade, we moved into a new house, sister picked pink for her walls, me, blue……..dad got the room assignments screwed up with the contractor and my room was PINK……….we were brought up to not complain, so i never did, but boy, was i mad/depressed about it, pink is like electric through me, not in a good way……my little sister had my blue room, and said all the time how much she LOVED her blue room…….so, i never said a word…….but he noticed how i never spent any time in my room AT ALL…..cuz it was pink……..we painted it peach……together…….with electric orange trim…….1969.

and yes, my sister and i had the normal wanna kill ya years, but are as close as you can be, now.

Redshift @ 150

Eureka Springs @ 143

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

We do need equal time, but in a series of actual one-on-one debates, not these cattle-call soundbite contests. Look up how the French presidential debates worked; that’s something I’d really like to see here.

Any way we could get all these weenies to go to France?

oddmommy @ 105

latest from Utah: they are going to leave those 6 guys down there…….and THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE MINING.

If that doesn’t spark some kind of public outrage, we truly are a nation of brain dead zombies.

Ho hum. In other news, it looks like they were worried in advance that the bridge was going to collapse. I’m wondering if I’ve lost my ability to be appalled.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 124

Gee whiz. I had no idea this pink and blue business would cause such a commotion. Lahoma is still stuck to the ceiling. :0)

I like pink. I’m a guy. Take that anyway you want.

I like green, too.

Frank Probst @ 145

Ed*ard Teller @ 59

New lead at TPMMuck:

Bradley Schlozman, a former Justice Department official who was at the center of the U.S. attorneys scandal and is under investigation by the Departments inspector general for his alleged efforts to politicize the Civil Rights Division, has finally left his post at the Department.

And another one down, and another one down!
Another one bites the dust!

Well, out of government, anyway, which is a start. But if he doesn’t end up behind bars, he’ll be back, just like all the Iran-Contra criminals.

Redshift @ 150

Eureka Springs @ 143

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

We do need equal time, but in a series of actual one-on-one debates, not these cattle-call soundbite contests. Look up how the French presidential debates worked; that’s something I’d really like to see here.

Actually, I’ve been enjoying these debates, it’s getting like a conversation or a discussion.

Can’t say I cared for half the questions of the ABC debate, tho.

But that’s me.

Ah, Rove – the boy genius.

There’s a difference between clever and smart, and there’s a difference between knowledge and insight. Karl is on the wrong end of both of those scales.

Unlike Kerry, who was barely known, Hillary is fully vetted – hence the high negatives. However, I think people might hanker for the 90’s quite powerfully 14 months from now, if they don’t already.

Also, she, Obama, Edwards, and Dodd are just plain smarter than their GOP counterparts, and they don’t talk like page 15 of a 30 page lease.

Kevin Drum was jonesing the other day for a Hillary-Fred Thompson matchup:

Clinton would eviscerate Fred Thompson in a debate, and maybe, just maybe, this would drive the GOP’s core jockocracy into such shrill unholy madness that the entire party would self-destruct in a stupendous display of mass hysteria. It’s worth a try, anyway.

Oh, yeah.

Elliott @ 126

Oklahoma kiddo @ 120

Gee whiz. I had no idea this pink and blue business would cause such a commotion. Lahoma is still stuck to the ceiling. :0)

maybe you could get her down if you offered her a nice ripe peach.

Well… I do admit sometimes I try things out on Lahoma for effect. Kinda like trying to gauge reactions. I’ve been a naughty boy. Again. I think it’ll take more than a ripe peach. ;0)

Hud’s Caddy was pink even though the movie was in black and white!

pink talk-

my exception on liking pink-

men who wear dress shirts that are pastel pink under their suits…especially grey….hot as hell. oh my.

Hillary might massacre some Republican opponents.

But she won’t beat Ron Paul.

The vets for freedom jackass is now going to refute the grunts from the Deuce who wrote the letter to the Times.

SnarKassandra @ 148

Eureka Springs @ 141

It’s time we Democrats insist on equal time for all candidates in primary debates.

And it is time for me to stop being an internet slug and go finish my summer reading list. (Aunt Betsy is awake, can ya tell?)

Happy reading. anything fun on the list?

ccmask @ 78

I do not own one pink item in my closet and I have tons of clothes. Never liked it.

i wear pink all the time.
i’m a guy.
our 8 year old boy once asked me:
“Dad, you’re wearing pink?”
“yea.”
“wow, dad, only real men can wear pink!”
“ooookayy.”

i really like her music.

Elliott @ 142

Bustednuckles @ 128

Heh, speaking of pink tools.
I have a LOT of Snap On tools, they are extremely expensive, think $20 for a screwdriver expensive, but, they have the lifetime warranty.
I have a set of orange screwdrivers that cost well over a hundred bucks and one of them went to hell on me, the handle And the driver.I get it fixed and remember I lost a little pick. I ask for a new one and all he has is one with a pink handle. No thanks I say. He says it will be a month before I can get another one , they are on back order. I say , only if you give it to me, I ain’t payin for no pink handle. He finally agrees and you should have seen the teasing I got for it. Somehow I have manged to lose that one again.

so no pink for manly men?

Is this something straight out of Tim “The Toolman” Taylor or is it wikiable?

raven @ 165

The vets for freedom jackass is now going to refute the grunts from the Deuce who wrote the letter to the Times.

Yep..he’s got the ReTHUG talking points down….

raven @ 162

The vets for freedom jackass is now going to refute the grunts from the Deuce who wrote the letter to the Times.

Blah blah Anbar is West Hollywood.

I have a 3yr old nephew who has fallen in love with the color pink. He wanted his birthday cake to be pink. His bedroom walls, pink. The new towels he shopped for with his mom…pink. His dad keeps pushing for blue. Not a chance, he wants pink.

I believe I’ve read pink is used as a wall color in some prisons, because it’s been found to reduce anger.

Maybe that’s why pink is not generally favored by foul-mouthed fem bloggers.

we need more forums where the the average person can get questions in rather than moderators with pre-set questions a la the union debates – that i’ll watch

Anyone see Ma vie en rose the first “My Life in Pink”? A sweet movie about a little boy who wants to be a little girl.

oddmommy,

Two years ago I got married and wore a red Tudor style gown, a bit over a week ago my daughter got married in red as well. When someone asked her why she chose red she replied, “Family tradition.” Cracked me up. Actually, we both just love red.

oddmommy @ 129

actually I’m a little confused about what a “yellowdog” is. I know that “bluedogs” aren’t good……

blue dogs = DINOs = bad

yellowdogs = democrats = good

IMESHO

I will wear pink but prefer to call it light red. I am male. I would prefer any one of the Dems over Hilary. I wish Edwards would stop whipping his tongue to the side of his mouth. It freaks me out.

Pink hot dogs. Mm,mm, good.

http://www.pinkshollywood.com/pgz/greeting.htm

there’s a weird little TV cartoon called “Courage the Cowardly Dog.” He’s pink.

Which suggests that many of our Democratic representatives may be properly referenced as “pinkdogs.”

So does this thread make FDL a pinko foul-mouthed fem-blog?

dmac @ 164

pink talk-

my exception on liking pink-

men who wear dress shirts that are pastel pink under their suits…especially grey….hot as hell. oh my.

i wear my pink dress shirt with jeans and sandals.
i could not care if folks think i’m gay.
i’m married, so it don’t affect my dating, you know?

For the record. I love all shades of purple. Lahoma is crazy about azure. ;0)

steve ar at 141 says -”Chesapeake “Blue” crabs. I have been eating crabs my whole life and never paid any attention to claw color until my sister pointed it out a few years ago. I will have to check “soft” shells the next time I’m in Maryland.”

oh yeah, we had a FEAST………chicken necks as bait….man, that was fun, i want to do that again, many times before i die……..

the next morning i loaded up their dogs to go to the beach at dawn-they live in newport news, the sheltie was goin nuts in the back seat and i didn’t know why….found out when we got to the beach…….there was a crab under my seat….freaked me out that i coulda grabbed me at any time…it got out of the cooler the day before……..so, i used a hanger and had it grip it, and threw it out into the ocean………

one of my best vacations ever………

Peterr @ 180

So does this thread make FDL a pinko foul-mouthed fem-blog?

Ha ha ha ha …
love that.

Elliott @ 116

Richmond @ 99

You will always be Elliott to me :-/

Subway Serenade is changing to Astral Technician, I’ll always be Elliott to you. :)
and you, too, ccmask

Oh, okay. If you miss a half hour around here you never know what’s going on.

This is sick but I spent Saturday with my Army nephew. He said he is voting Republican. His reason: Job Security. Oh, also he no longer can stand Bush and can’t wait until he is out. They are being told they better vote GOP or the Dems will send them home as soon as they take over.

lets really shake em up – we’re a commie pinko foul-mouthed fem give-em hell blog …. uh ohhh i’ve just brought down the wrath of the NSA down on us… ohhh shit!!

jonathan at 173 says-”

I believe I’ve read pink is used as a wall color in some prisons, because it’s been found to reduce anger.

Maybe that’s why pink is not generally favored by foul-mouthed fem bloggers.”

yeah, i’ve heard that, too……..and pink is supposed to be calming, but it has always electrified me, same as red………does the opposite to me……..oranges, greens and blues calm me down……….

realworld @ 60

Redshift @ 44

I think they fear most what Edwards would do if elected, but they fear Hillary more in the election.

That said, considering their recent track record, I don’t think it’s worth bothering to react to their hopes and fears about our candidates; they’re most likely wrong anyway.

Actually I think they fear Edwards more for both which is why he has been sabotaged so much.

Right on.

Edwards is the most feared by GOPBB.

Ed*d teller @ 59 and I know that spelling is not right

Schlozman gone. does that make him vulnerable to prosecution for violation of voters’ rights.

and this is OT,
does anyone known if any of the DOJ crowd who have left it and are under a crowd have been called before their state bars or ethics committees. can we help them along? INAL but someone out there is.

ccmask @ 186

This is sick but I spent Saturday with my Army nephew. He said he is voting Republican. His reason: Job Security. Oh, also he no longer can stand Bush and can’t wait until he is out. They are being told they better vote GOP or the Dems will send them home as soon as they take over.

Hmmm, what does he want? Job security or a chance at “life security”?

OT:

HEY all you firepups! Don’t forget to go and get this TRANSLATOR – it translates you into Pirate-speak!

Remember, only 30 days until “International Talk like a Pirate Day!“

Last Year Jane was HIGHLY AMUSED* that we all walked the plank!

*not really, but it was fun to watch

ccmask @ 186

Elliott @ 116

Subway Serenade is changing to Astral Technician, I’ll always be Elliott to you. :)
and you, too, ccmask

Oh, okay. If you miss a half hour around here you never know what’s going on.

This is sick but I spent Saturday with my Army nephew. He said he is voting Republican. His reason: Job Security. Oh, also he no longer can stand Bush and can’t wait until he is out. They are being told they better vote GOP or the Dems will send them home as soon as they take over.

that really is sickening — and surely illegal.

Clinton Vows More Trips In Effort To Win Arkansas

FAYETTEVILLE – Leading Democratic presidential contender Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., vowed this afternoon to make more trips to Northwest Arkansas in the 2008 campaign.

Clinton spoke to a crowd of at least 200 at Gloria Jean’s Coffee on Dickson Street during a fundraising tour of Fayetteville and Little Rock.

The senator and former Arkansas first lady said she’d put Arkansas “in the winning column” in the next presidential election.

The state Republican Party issued a statement calling the senator’s trip an attempt to “convince voters in this state that she’s not a liberal senator from New York.”

peanutbutter @ 190

ccmask @ 186

This is sick but I spent Saturday with my Army nephew. He said he is voting Republican. His reason: Job Security. Oh, also he no longer can stand Bush and can’t wait until he is out. They are being told they better vote GOP or the Dems will send them home as soon as they take over.

Hmmm, what does he want? Job security or a chance at “life security”?

I forgot to mention he is a lifer. 25 years old and 4 children.

and the workers in that infernal Murray’s mine were reportedly told they’d be fired if they didn’t vote repub.

jim oconnor @ 90

Joe @ 84: I agree with those points. Don’t forget Teddy K didn’t help by challenging Carter. (I love Ted, but that’s a blemish to be sure).

Mel Martinez, RNC Chairman. An Article in the Seattle Times mentions Rove being interupted by Martinez during an interview last week. Linky

In the old days, when the South was solidly Democratic, the voters there would choose a yellow dog over a republican.

Some of the Yellow Dog democrats in those days are best forgotten…Stennis, Eastland, et al.

I just don’t know how lies, dishonesty, dirty tricks, destroying order, mean-spiritedness, hate-speak became the definition of “genius”. You mean it’s not Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Einstein, Galileo Shakespeare. How did we get it so wrong?

FYI, new post

New thread upstairs…

ccmask @ 186

Elliott @ 116

Subway Serenade is changing to Astral Technician, I’ll always be Elliott to you. :)
and you, too, ccmask

Oh, okay. If you miss a half hour around here you never know what’s going on.

I imagine that 2/3rds of those in Iraq would prefer being sent home right away if given the choice.

This is sick but I spent Saturday with my Army nephew. He said he is voting Republican. His reason: Job Security. Oh, also he no longer can stand Bush and can’t wait until he is out. They are being told they better vote GOP or the Dems will send them home as soon as they take over.

QuakerGirl @ 198

I just don’t know how lies, dishonesty, dirty tricks, destroying order, mean-spiritedness, hate-speak became the definition of “genius”. You mean it’s not Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Einstein, Galileo Shakespeare. How did we get it so wrong?

I guess values were changed.

Loo Hoo. @ 150

It bothers me not in the least that Hillary’s campaign takes money from corporations, because I haven’t seen anyone show that her votes have been affected by said money.

They’re scared to death of her. She’s got the brain to beat them at their own game. It pisses them off seriously at the thought of a woman being president. Doesn’t fit in with the theocracy BS.

OKK, I like pink! How was the first day back?

Winner of the Democrats.com YouTube on impeachment.

Piece of cake. I decided after a vote to hold classes in the cafeteria and outside. The principal was not pleased. ;0)

PLovering @ 165

Hillary might massacre some Republican opponents.

But she won’t beat Ron Paul.

Check out Paul’s voting record.

IrishJim: My nephew was speaking for himself as a lifer in the US. It was disturbing to me.

I can’t do pastel pink but I’m great in hot pink. Viva la pink in all its shades, tones and hues.

I forgot one more thing: Nephew is voting for Ron Paul. heh

Hey kids, new thread upstairs…too lazy to link (hot today)

redshift at 139 says-”Sadly, it didn’t stop with him — there are still scientists looking for biological factors that “explain” why there are fewer women in science careers, despite the copious evidence that it’s a cultural effect, such as the many countries in the world where women are the majority in those careers.”

well, i can tell you why i dropped out of math-this is the first time i have ever voiced this, just so you know it’s not someone with a burr up their ass………a professor that made my life miserable……..in 1978 girls weren’t supposed to be in math…….he wanted to have just boys in his class….i was a math prodigy, with an interest in art…i was an art major with a math minor, and he constantly made remarks about how artists aren’t mathemeticians…….but i had the highest grades in his class, and when people needed help, they came to me.-the class was matrices in finite mathematics-how computers figure out equations, now there’s a function on calculators that does it for you, but back then, you had to do it the long way, with columns and pages of numbers………i had an a in his class, 100………he hated my guts…….asswipe…….

and my art teacher, whom i came to know later in life personnaly, later apologized, gave me c’s because i could have put out better according to him, he would use my work as an example of what everyone should be doing, but then gave me a c because he expected greater things from me………so, in my mind, college totally sucked………big time………

they were shuffling people out of there according to what they thought they should be……bullshit……women were nurses, teachers and secretaries.

i quit and went to work for the phone company, one of the first women who worked outside…….screwed up my back………..

wish i knew back then what i know now………i woulda told them to shove it………

a lot of that went on back then……..

sd @ 12

Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

can’t agree with you on that one – classic rovian reverse psychology.

(or was that tongue-in-cheek?)

I’m with you on this one sd!

As is this LATimes article:

Clinton may be a target of Rove’s reverse psychology

In a tactic from the ‘04 Bush-Kerry match-up, the strategist could be trying to divert attention away from a more formidable Democrat.

jen @ 211

sd @ 12

can’t agree with you on that one – classic rovian reverse psychology.

(or was that tongue-in-cheek?)

I’m with you on this one sd!

As is this LATimes article:

Clinton may be a target of Rove’s reverse psychology

In a tactic from the ‘04 Bush-Kerry match-up, the strategist could be trying to divert attention away from a more formidable Democrat.

Sorry, should have read thread before commenting. :/

(LATimes piece posted by bob #24 already.)

Karl had it partially right about Congress. We won, but it’s a Pyrrhic victory because The Math says that only one vote counts- the president’s. If he vetos, there are insufficient votes to override. We have stalemate, which IMHO is better than a rout but not much better with the Blue Dogs acting like asses.
As for Clinton, I really think she completely unhinges Rove. I saw him on Press the Meat yesterday and thought I saw flop sweat as he mindlessly recited her negatives. I don’t care what his game plan is, when it comes to Hillary, he’s got a problem. Everything that she has ever done has been recited by every lunatic right wing mouthpiece for over a decade and it doesn’t come anywhere near NOLA, The Plame Affair, illegal wiretapping, Terry Schiavo or a whole host of other nastiness and slime. She looks positively clean in comparison. What are they going to dig up on her next October? She’s been pre-disastered.
I’ll betcha Karl is wishing that the GOP hadn’t been so irrationally exuberant back in the 90’s and held back a little bit.
Oh, well, too late now.

I think Clinton’s ‘negativity rating’ has been maxed out for awhile, which means personal favorability can only go up. In the context of how much support she already enjoys in general, that could spell curtains for opponents down the stretch.

dmac @ 210

redshift at 139 says-”Sadly, it didn’t stop with him — there are still scientists looking for biological factors that “explain” why there are fewer women in science careers, despite the copious evidence that it’s a cultural effect, such as the many countries in the world where women are the majority in those careers.”

I hear ya’. In the 1980’s I went into a physical science and had to put up with totally unhelpful profs who went out of their way to help the @$$kissing males. Women were just a frickin’ waste of their time and their insensitive putdown comments didn’t help. I just ignored them. My whole family tried to discourage me from attending college in the first place (the world was about to end). I was used to the negative encouragement and just did it anyway.
Funny though, I tolerate a lot more indiffernce and bad treatment than I probably should.

Tim Griffin being appointed without Senate confirmation as US Atty in Arkansas is all I need to realize how much Rove fears Hillary.

Muzzy @ 216

Tim Griffin being appointed without Senate confirmation as US Atty in Arkansas is all I need to realize how much Rove fears Hillary.

And find *what* exactly? Haven’t we all seen Hillary’s crotch shots? What is left? They never found anything on the woman after 8 years of endless investigation and $40 million dollars. She once might have acted on some inside information on a commodities trade. In the whole scheme of things, it doesn’t even approach the Martha Stewart threshhold. There’s not THERE there. Griffin would be bored out of his skull and you can only make so much stuff up before it starts sounding ridiculous. Is he just now going to uncover some previously unknown affair or billing record?
She’s been thoroughly deloused with the finest nit-picking comb Richard Mellon Scaife could afford to engineer.

portia, no one ever said there has to be any there there to have a damaging effect.

By the time the smoke clears, it’s served its purpose.

Steve-ar
If they decided to have Countdown before every Sunday Nite football…the wing-nuts’ heads will explode..it just might push O’Reilly into complete insanity.

One can only hope lol

Muzzy @ 218

portia, no one ever said there has to be any there there to have a damaging effect.

By the time the smoke clears, it’s served its purpose.

Oh, I agree completely. But it’s going to sound strange coming after 8 years of being out of the limelight. One might even say improbable. And what exactly are they going to make up this time? Are they going to dig up some lesbian lover? Pin another rotten land deal on her? You’ve got to wonder why they didn’t find that they first time.
Naaah, I don’t think it will stick this time.

So much for the political “genius” of the kraven KRove. It would be the cherry on the sundae if Hillary were nominated — and WON!! But it doesn’t matter which Democrat is nominated: no political genius, I still think the Democrat will win. People are pretty angry and disgusted with the current “genius” administration’s never-ending series of mistakes, missteps and just overall misses. I also think the American people now realize the neocons’ political game: hold up the opposition as something to be feared or hated, rather than someone to engage in honest debate of the issues.

let’s do the “math”. ^^

a) assume most republican voters are kinda stupid.
b) assume Hillary will be the democratic candidate.
c) assume that issue-wise Hillary doesn’t differ too much from most republican talking points.
d) assume that about half of republican voters are women.

ooopsie.

e) assume that Hillary will change Big Oil for Big Pharma, will totally make use of the amassed executive power, and will invade Iran.

Spiritcatcher @ 222

let’s do the “math”. ^^

a) assume most republican voters are kinda stupid.
b) assume Hillary will be the democratic candidate.
c) assume that issue-wise Hillary doesn’t differ too much from most republican talking points.
d) assume that about half of republican voters are women.

ooopsie.

e) assume that Hillary will change Big Oil for Big Pharma, will totally make use of the amassed executive power, and will invade Iran.

Maybe not invade, just bomb the shit out of them. She’ll have to prove she’s as tough as Bush but she won’t need to prove she’s as stupid.

Elliott @ 68

Oklahoma kiddo @ 56

Here’s something to ponder.

Women really do prefer pink, study finds
Finding is among the first to show gender-based color preferences

Hah! I am female and hate hate hate pink!

LONDON – Boys like blue, girls like pink and there isn’t much anybody can do about it, researchers said on Monday in one of the first studies to show scientifically that there are gender-based color preferences.

Researchers said these differences may have a basis in evolution in which females developed a preference for reddish colors associated with riper fruit and healthier faces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20361263/

Hey thanks OKK,
I’m fascinated by this stuff. And I like pink and I don’t care who knows it. Blue has never been my favorite color.

Actually, Rove was probably right to feel optimistic.

Not only did Rove have Republican “dirty tricks” squads “roving” around to help Republicans get elected or reelected, but he is bound to have been taking into account the Democratic races involving contests between progressive, liberal Democrats and more conservative, DLC-backed Democrats.

Thus, Joe Lieberman lost the Connecticut Democratic primary, and probably on the advice of his good pal Rove, decided to run as an independent, with promises from Rove, that Connecticut Republicans (and conservative Connecticut Democrats) would back his independent run.

Odds are that this occurred in other cases, with Rove offering his help to the DLC and any conservative Democrats the DLC was trying to place in office.

Too bad the White House is blocking attempts to get at Karl Rove’s RNC e-mails, otherwise we’d know the extent of his contacts with DLC Democrats as well as learning about what else his little criminal mind was up to.

But don’t forget, Rove likes to play all the angles…including helping “sympathetic” Democrats get elected.

Jane, the notion that Hillary Clinton could “massacre” ANY republical opponent, is the purest nonsense.

If the democrats are stupid enough to actually nominate her, she could turn any one of them into a solid contender.

Any one.

McCain

Giuliani

Thompson

Romney.

Let’s do this:

Find some EMPIRICAL polling data that will show how Hillary runs against republicans AND the independents and democratic conservatives that will be needed for a democratic massacre. The Idea that the independents and the conservative dems who helped put george bush within a supreme court decision of the presidency, and then re-elected him, will help her “massacre” any republican, is just…appallingly wrong.

Karl Rove said that if the Democrats spoke about the war it would be political suicide in ‘06, and the chattering class could not stop repeating that. If Karl Rove says that Hillary Clinton is bad for the Democrats, I think it’s pretty safe to assume she’d massacre any Republican opponent she might run against.

Or conversely,she’s exactly who he would like to run against….

peanutbutter @ 52

Hmph. Everyone on the right coast must be clocking out and on the road or sompin’…LS @ 22

California and electronic voting – that is what I am most worried about.

Two words: Debra Bowen…

Very interesting news on bradblog.com today about ES&S machines and how a person’s vote was time-stamped, so they could match it up with the list of votes and know precisely how every single person voted.

E-voting bites the dust!

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 84

jim oconnor @ 80

Snarkassandra @ 37: I think they were afraid of losing. They bought into an idea that they couldn’t win with a campaign based on traditional Democratic principles.

I think the roots of this go back to Reagan and the defeats the Dems suffered after Carter. Clinton won two elections as a Republican-lite candidate and the Dem establishment adopted the strategy that in order for Dems to win they couldn’t be real Dems.

But didn’t Carter lose because the economy was in the crapper, and because he couldn’t resolve the Iranian hostage crisis?

Carter lost for a variety of reasons: bad Republican press, October surprise where Republicans negotiated illegally with Iranians to hold the hostages and very high oil/gasoline prices making the economy horrible courtesy of Bush Saudis.

Nice people those Machiavellian Republicans, eh?

Frank Probst @ 157

…

Ho hum. In other news, it looks like they were worried in advance that the bridge was going to collapse. I’m wondering if I’ve lost my ability to be appalled.

Hell, admit it … they KNEW it was going to fall and were only calculating whether it was worth it to spend money to save lives.

I’ll bet they calculated how much campaign finance money they would get by keeping the taxes low.

Keep your chins up, Karl.