While we’re all waiting to find out the next step in the Sen. Leahy empty in-box subpoena sweepstakes this afternoon — presser scheduled for 2:30 pm ET, and I hear the WH will not meet its deadline — I thought a little reading on the empty rhetoric spewing forth within the Beltway “serious minds” crowd was in order:
– Joe Lieberman advises (H/T to Think Progress) that the “road to victory” goes through Iraq Iran Syria. Yeah, that’s it. That’s the ticket. (Is it me, or is he becoming a Jon Lovitz parody (YouTube) more and more every day?)
– Something you may never see again: I agree with Joe Klein. Read this now.
…In short, we operate in a bewildering context of determined enemies and questionable allies, one where the balance of forces on the ground remains entirely unclear. (In the course of writing this article, this fact became all too clear: one of us, Staff Sergeant Murphy, an Army Ranger and reconnaissance team leader, was shot in the head during a “time-sensitive target acquisition mission” on Aug. 12; he is expected to survive and is being flown to a military hospital in the United States.) While we have the will and the resources to fight in this context, we are effectively hamstrung because realities on the ground require measures we will always refuse — namely, the widespread use of lethal and brutal force.
In a lawless environment where men with guns rule the streets, engaging in the banalities of life has become a death-defying act. Four years into our occupation, we have failed on every promise, while we have substituted Baath Party tyranny with a tyranny of Islamist, militia and criminal violence. When the primary preoccupation of average Iraqis is when and how they are likely to be killed, we can hardly feel smug as we hand out care packages. As an Iraqi man told us a few days ago with deep resignation, “We need security, not free food.”…
Until that happens, it would be prudent for us to increasingly let Iraqis take center stage in all matters, to come up with a nuanced policy in which we assist them from the margins but let them resolve their differences as they see fit. This suggestion is not meant to be defeatist, but rather to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.
– Laura Rozen picks apart the holes in Peter Baker’s WaPo piece on the Bush failures in strategery.
– Via Reuters, we find that the majority of foreign policy experts — including more than 60% of conservative scholars — think that Bush’s “surge”/”escalation” policy is a big fat failure.
More than half of top U.S. foreign policy experts oppose President George W. Bush’s troop increase as a strategy for stabilizing Baghdad, saying the plan has harmed U.S. national security, according to a new survey.
As Congress and the White House await the September release of a key progress report on Iraq, 53 percent of the experts polled by Foreign Policy magazine and the Center for American Progress said they now oppose Bush’s troop build-up.
That is a 22 percentage point jump since the strategy was announced early this year.
The survey of 108 experts, including Republicans and Democrats, showed opposition to the so-called “surge” across the political spectrum, with about two-thirds of conservatives saying it has been ineffective or made things worse in Iraq….
Ninety-one percent of those polled said the world has grown more dangerous for Americans and the United States, up 10 percent from February.
Heckuva job, Bushie. (No wonder Lieberman is going for the divide and Syria shiny object strategery…they’ve sent him out to wag the finger of distraction again.) ThinkProgress has some of the charts from the survey here.
– This read is simply painful (H/T to reader WB), and unfortunately adds to the total of increased suicides among active military. As Jon Soltz points out, there simply is no logical way to reconcile the low instance of diagnosis of PTSD through the VA and military records and this increasing number of suicides. The public, our military and their families deserve better answers.
– Nitpicker takes on Victor Davis Hanson’s self-refuting idiocy.
PS — Do watch Matt Cooper from Meet the Press in this clip on C&L. We knew Rove was a lying weasel, but it’s fun to watch Cooper have to be so blunt with Daivd Gregory who — as Marcy ably points out — is trying to tap dance around having to ever call Rove out as a liar. Priceless teevee.
(Great shot of empty in-box tray via Jeffk.)
UPDATE: Meant to link this up as well: the view from Basra through British eyes. (H/T to LS for the link.)
Related posts:
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- Early Morning Swim: Rachel on Right-Wing Death Threats, Eliminationist Rhetoric
- Lieberman’s Filibuster Threats Run Counter to 2006 Campaign Rhetoric
- Is There Anything More Ridiculous Than Republicans Complaining about “Extremist Views and Coarse Rhetoric”?
- Pride And Petulance





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zed
two
single digits!
three
cinco
I am just agog at Lieberman’s advocacy of attacking Syria. The man must be seriously certifiable.
seven!
peanutbutter @ 6
He doesn’t need certifying, he has gone way past that.
So, how is Monday for everyone? We had a fantastic weekend — took The Peanut to an amusement park and had a blast — so coming back to the news was a bit depressing, I have to say. Anyone find anything funny in the news today? I could use a giggle…
peanutbutter @ 6
I always find the kids who run for student council to be an, um, interesting bunch… some are excellent kids who are heading for public service but some are just plain strange… they will grow up to be the Joe Lieberman’s of the future…
Here is a list of Maine newspapers for anyone who wants to highlight this and other war nonsense as linked in part to Collins and her LIeberman ties.
http://www.usnpl.com/menews.php
its redundant – how many ways and times must we make note of bushco’s willful mishaps? time time for some action – ohh but wait dems say nooooooooo lets allow them to finish out their term – yet we continue to fall in the crapper..oh well there’s always 2008….. pray we’re still standing
Hello;
There is no IRAQ anymore. Bush have divided it back to the pre 1920 British model. Yesterdays NYT article by seven 82nd Airborne non coms gives the most realistic evaluation of the American occupation of Iraq, the dissolving of their government the tribal/religious fractionalization and the emergence of a possible Shite state aligned with Iran who were defined as the “Axis of Evil” by the Bush administration. Bushco has caused the political demise of a nation, destroyed the infrastructure and caused 4 million people to be homeless, 600,000 Iraqis slaughtered not to mention the death of 3831 of our brave troops doing their duty. He has elevated nuclear tensions an armed the disarranyed factions. Worse even yet he has destabilized the whole region, caused Americas international and national reputation to be in the sewer with torture and disregard for the Geneva Convention, and wasted our national treasury creating a mountain of debt unparalleled in our history. He has politicized our Judiciary and all branches of government illegally and against the Constitution. In deregulating the economy by appointing industry corporate officials the foxes guarding the hen house, he has pushed the economy to the brink of recession (”It’s the economy stupid”). He has brought our military to the breaking point while threatening to start another war with Iran. He has let escape Osama Bin Laden the chief of Jihad terrorism against USA and the instigator of 9/11. He has reduced our liberties and spying on us by satellite and our daily telecommunication which may be available to the RNC we do not know as he has thumbed his nose at Constitutional Congressional oversight by invoking “Executive Privilege” to stonewall thc U.S. congress and has installed an Attorney General and the Justice department as a “Firewall” against ‘We the People”. We are now more at peril of terrorism than ever and he has ignited the wrath of the 1.5 billion Muslims throughout the world. In doing this he has destroyed the reputation of the “grand old party”. Republicans of Barry Golwater ilk such as Jon Dean are schocked at their neocon right-wing extremists who show no restraint in stooping to political “dirt tricks”. If this administration is not held accountable a signal will be sent to future administrations that “the rule of law” is no restraint against immoral, unethical behavior and crimes against humanity. If extremism of the East is met with extremism from the West then the future of civilization is at the brink of annihilation.
This administration has shown no willingness to stop these actions. Impeachment by the US House of Representative, whether the Senate convicts or not, is now the only way for the American public and the US Congress to get to the bottom of who did what and what were criminal activities. This is an indictment of the far right who has united church and state against the wishes of the founding fathers who understood what devisiveness that has created. If we wish to continue to be controlled by a corporate oligarchy then Impeachment is off the table. If we wish to go back to democratic principals of transparent government by the people then we must Impeach this out of control administration who has abused their power and usurped even more power toward executive dictatorship.
Andy Rooney:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0820.html
juslin at 12 — Part of the problem is that the numbers are far too close in both houses of Congress to allow for straightforward action when you factor in the Blue Dog caucus and the need to get a veto-proof vote on any big action — which they certainly have problems with in the Senate especially, considering it is Lieberman, among others, who wield a swing vote.
If we want considerable movement on these issues, then we have work to do in making certain that every elected official hears from all of us — daily, if necessary — that we want changes made. Now. Short of our doing the work, and making it known that the public is not only solidly behind change — but loudly and publicly so — we aren’t going to see it. And that is the truth of it, because they simply do not have the numbers to pull it off without flipping some Republicans — which is not going to happen unless we all start demanding change.
It sucks, but that is the honest to god truth of it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Heh. I had a rather grueling weekend…I’ve been refurbishing the windows in my house, and ended up breaking two window panes while reglazing them, so I was working all day in the hot sun fixing that up.
So today, I’m totally relaxing in the comfy chair at work and enjoying hte airconditioning…
Did Lieberman ever advocate attacking Syria? I didn’t hear that.
In fact, Iran’s government is openly hostile to the United States, and we would be well advised to be serious and cautious about the threat posed. Further, Syria acts in many ways as a proxy for Iran. Fact.
Isolating Syria politically, exerting economic influence, supporting her enemies, these are all good strategies for weakening Syria, and limiting the mischief that Iran can do.
Sorry if you disagree, but that’s the way I see it. If Joe Lieberman agrees with me, so be it. I still think he’s an asshole.
I thought this was pretty funny: As reported by Stephanie Miller, Joel Surnow claims that the cancellation of the “Half Hour News Hour” was because it was expensive to produce, and we shouldn’t infer from it that conservatives aren’t funny.
Fortunately, we don’t have to infer that from its cancellation, we can see it directly just by watching the show.
Yeah, I’ve grown tired of the subpoena circus. If Congress refuses to go beyond issuing documents noting their displeasure then Congress serves little role beyond being a noisemaker at the party. I know some good has come out of the oversight hearings, but the flouting of Congress’ constitutional role by the Bush government has gone too far. The Bush government is comprised of bad actors on every level, which makes that damned FISA rollover even more galling. I don’t know how I’ll ever forgive that.
Color me disgusted, I expect more.
Hi Christy, glad you got away & had some family fun.
The last two paragraphs from Frank Rich’s column slam KKKarl and his kool-aid drinkers. Makes me smile!
Monday’s not too bad — Saturday I got to watch a dogfight between a pair of hummingbirds — they were dueling over the feeder.
Syria? Syrianna maybe? This guy’s losing it–fast.
Can’t offer you a giggle, but here’s a piece of deja vu all over again, from McClatchy news, in which a spokesperson says that “just because we can’t find them [Iranians training Iraqis in Iraq] doesn’t mean they aren’t there.” Where have we heard THAT before?
(These folks do stick to the tried and true, don’t they!)
Ummmm. Yeah. About that political stability and internal safety issue in Iraq? Not so much.
Is there anyone HoJo WOULDN’T like to attack? He’s a true warmonger.
Christy:
Jon Soltz…
Laura at 23 — That sound you hear is me banging my head on the keyboard…arrrrrrgh.
Lieberman says that the US needs to tell the Syrians that it won’t abide them bein “travel agents” for Al Queda getting in and out of Iraq…
In other words- we expect Syria to protect the Iraq border cause we can’t and neither can the Iraqis..
He says that war should not be necessary.
We’re bloody running out of troops and Senator Liar-man wants us to attack Syria???!!!
Isn’t Iraq enough of a fiasco for him? (Oh wait, he thinks everything is just fine over there…)
Maybe someone should make him an observer, and stick him in the control tower of the airport in Basra?
BigMitch @ 16
Care to prove that assertion? I don’t see Iran engaging in anything beyond their self interests, certainly nothing more egregious than Russia or China or Saudi Arabia.
Our government openly talks about overthrowing the Iranian government for years, is it any wonder Iran is belligerent towards us?
Now, what was Steve Gilliard telling us all from 2003 right up until the day he was no longer able to blog?
That’s right: We were training people to shoot at us.
For giggle. How about this one:
Amid everything else…
I have an idea re our troops and PTSD:
Every serviceperson who is assigned combat duty must be given treatment for PTSD at regular intervals during service and upon completion of combat duty.
No exceptions. Voila, the stigma of accepting mental health treatment evaporates.
Since the manifestations of PTSD are often long-delayed, it is probably impossible to tell who will suffer the worst — i.e., kill themselves or someone else — and who will just suffer a miserable and desperate life of inner chaos and despair while, sadly, leaving the rest of society alone.
Why not just accept as a given that every soldier who sees combat is assumed to suffer the trauma of combat and is not only entitled to PTSD treatment but is required to accept that treatment in order to keep that “service unit” (human being) in working order?
Do our troops deserve less than this?
I think Chris Wallace showed signs of Mike
in his Rove one-on-one…
Wallace 1 Gregory -1…
while we wait for dems to increase their majority in congress at least stand against bushco’s encroachment on civil liberties under the guise of “terror” war…syand for principles at the least – i’m not asking for much more than that – chimpy is smirking all the way to crawford believe me
Glenn Greenwald has another piece up today about those Very Serious people in the Washington foreign policy establishment. I especially liked this bit of writing:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
In essence he argues that to advocate war anytime anywhere is a vital precondition to being considered “serious” by our foreign policy community.
Greenwald is doing good work here in exposing just how bankrupt our foreign policy establishment has become. For them, it is about endless war. If one war fails, then start another. It is really nothing more than the “nuke’m til they glow and shoot ‘em in the dark” rantings of the wingnut blogosphere written in academese.
The problem does, however, extend further than Greenwald admits. It is not just one of our institutions but many of them that are failing and failing now. It is really a sad commentary on our times to witness the implosion of our political process, the parties, the media, and our policy making apparatus and its experts. I would like to be able to point to where things started going wrong, to blame it on fluoridation as General Jack D. Ripper does in Dr. Strangelove, but the truth is simpler: We have met the enemy and he is us. We did not take the Constitution seriously. We did not teach it or its values. Now we have a universe of hackdom where getting things right and coming up with demonstrable results have become so passe. It is indeed the Age of Stupid.
LindaR @ 34
Lovely idea and I quite agree.
Joe Liarman’s Syria comment at Think Progress
Iran is still not too pleased with our experiment in Iranian govt- the shah..They see our intrusion into Iraq as the new method of US imperialism.
How the fuck did they get THAT idea.?
Americans are mostly totally ignorant of what their own country has done in the past to dominate foreign affairs- and so they don’t understand a damned thing that’s going on in the world- and the govt. wants to keep em ignorant.
Twain @ 25
He just can’t shake his ‘little-girl crush on strongmen‘.
;>)
puppethead @ 30
It is no wonder that Iran is belligerent toward us. And who’s to blame? Go back to whoever put the Shaw of Iran in power, probably. Then throw in the Iranian hostages and you quickly conclude that this mutual hostility is longstanding, and abiding. To deny it, is to deny obvious facts. (Which is why I don’t understand your request that I prove my assertion, since in your second paragraph you seem to agree with it.)
It’s particularly annoying that Peter Baker gives the last word on “democratization” (the real fallacy of the article is taking this declared goal at face value) to Natan Sharansky, that Soviet dissident turned right-wing Israeli warmonger. One of my weirdest recollections from the runup to the Iraq invasion was seeing Sharansky debate Patrick Buchanan on “Meet the Press” at the same time Bush was toting around Sharansky’s book.
rwcole @ 28
Why would the Shia dominated Syrian Government, with close ties to Shia Iran, be working as travel agents for the militant Sunni Al Qaeda?
I’m sorry, but it’s not “biased” if the press pointed out that he’s clearly talking out of his ass when they report on this stuff.
I think attacking Syria OR Iran at this point would be a horrible mistake, but if you’re going to advocate it at least present some kind of a cogent argument!
And this is why we need to get out now:
darkblack @ 40
Heavens, what an image :)
Blog whoring, but here’s a link to the archives that address the mental illness, suicide, traumatic brain injury, PTSD and military health aspects of the repeated and prolonged Army and Marine deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. The broken solider rate is running at about 20%. That refers to the percentage of troops are are permanently unable to return to fit for duty status, and so it follows that it is also the rate at which recruitment needs are just to replace the current level of troop deployments. It’s unsustainable.
Add to that the close to 50% rate at which ALL soldiers and marines who have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan report active symptoms of acute mental illness – this also includes symptoms of traumatic brain injury when it involves cognitive, emotional or judgment impairment. Then there is that loverly little noticed Chapter 5-13.
I realize that health policy is very low on the progressive totem pole, but if you are so inclined, please visit and participate as you desire.
Big Mitch @ 17
So how is this different from any other time since they kicked out the Shah?
LindaR @ 33
What a great idea. I totally agree. I believe PTSD is the #1 problem we are going to face as a society in the aftermath of this calamity (if there ever is an ‘aftermath’) – especially since one of the requirements for being able to mentally survive any war is knowing that your cause was necessary and just. After WWII, PTSD, while certainly an issue, was not the kind of problem that it was after Vietnam.
LindaR @ 33
I think that’s a very good idea. It could overcome a big problem, which is the military’s cultural resistance to admitting PTSD because they’re trained not to be “weak.” If that can be transformed into something that applies to everyone, it just might counter the fear of being considered a slacker, and in the long run, create a sense that failing to get treated is the risk to your unit, not failing to tough it out.
suf
I certainly wasn’t advocating attacking anybody- I was just quoting Lieberman- who wasn’t advocating attacking anyone either that I can see.
He WAS trying to make Syria responsible for keeping people we don’t like from crossing their borders into Iraq..which is quite likely not possible. Is he doin that to create a cause for war? Beats me.
BigMitch @ 42
Here is the latest on those perfidious Persians, “Iran Trains Militiamen Inside Iraq, U.S. Says”:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01394.html
The most morbidly comic part in the piece is when the flack tries to rebut the obvious objection many people have made to the charge that Iran is arming Sunni insurgents:
“Lynch also said Sunni insurgents are using Iranian weapons in southern Iraq, though he said he did not know how the weapons were obtained. More than 90 percent of Iran’s population is Shiite, making it unlikely that the Tehran leadership would support Sunni fighters. One possibility, Lynch said, is that Shiites are selling the Iranian weapons on the black market in Iraq.
“I don’t know how, but I know for a fact that Iranian munitions are making their way into the hands of Sunni insurgents,” Lynch said.”
Iran and Saudi Arabia are essentially fighting a proxy war in Iraq.
I heard Pat got a small role in the new “Batman” movie (really) …..
How they intend to integrate his fierce letter writing skills into the plot should be interesting.
I’d be shitting my pants if I was the “Joker”
N=1 @ 46
Thanks for the link. It’s high up on my progressive totem pole!
Both Syria and Jordan are dealing with enormous refugee problems caused by our foolhardy Iraqi invasion. We’ve been warring against the Iraqis for 17 years, and creating enormous instability in the region since fomenting the Iraq-Iran conflict 27 years ago.
“In fact, Iran’s government is openly hostile to the United States, and we would be well advised to be serious and cautious about the threat posed. Further, Syria acts in many ways as a proxy for Iran. Fact.
Isolating Syria politically, exerting economic influence, supporting her enemies, these are all good strategies for weakening Syria, and limiting the mischief that Iran can do.”
Syria has never been an enemy of the US. The Iranian people are not hostile to the US. We need to develop strategies which bring peace and prosperity to this region, not foment more war, poverty, misery and revenge.
>>…In short, we operate in a bewildering context of determined enemies and questionable allies
There is def. a presser at 2:30? C-span or MSM?
Thanks for the info
LindaR @ 34
Major General Gale Pollock, the nurse who was appointed the acting Army Surgeon General, launched a campaign do do almost this exact thing.
The Army also is working on hiring 250 more mental health professionals, and all the Army’s medical personnel are being trained in recognizing post-traumatic stress disorder, brain injuries and suicide risk, Ritchie said. In addition, the Army is instituting programs to reduce the stigma associated with seeking mental health care, she said.
The Army Medicine (AMEDD) website includes many behavioral health initiatives, and Pollock’s leadership has been assertive and transparent around these needs and in moving to obtain needed resources.
You know, if all of these serious policy types would just watch “The Princess Bride” they would know what the problem is:
The only true thing Vizzini says in the story.
Just sayin’.
It was a nice weekend: family, relaxing, and househunting. And the third wasn’t awful, in spite of many fears.
Redshift @ 50
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Not sure if this qualifies as a giggle but maybe a little smile. From DitchMitch
Redshift @ 18
Joel Surnow? Isn’t he the producer on “24″?
Now, THAT’S a funny show!
Crandall newsconference and Leahey…at the same time.
Ed*ard Teller @ 55
It’s painfully obvious that BushCo’s mission is not peace with anyone, only domination through fear. They won’t be happy until every nation trembles at the thought of us. Peace is weakness for them.
AZ Matt @ 21
Also note that there were half the people in attendance as there were in 2000.
froomkin’s up
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
rwcole @ 50
Sorry rwcole, I wasn’t attacking you, just Lieberman and the press. If the press doesn’t get the important details across to the American public we’ll just keep supporting disastrous foreign policy no matter who’s in the White House.
Taking the Justice out of the Department continues.
-
peanutbutter @ 61
Argh! Bad editing and I can’t edit my entries anymore! I did not mean to make it look like Redshift said what I said. It should have read like this
Redshift @ 50
In addition, it’s a win for civilian society. I deal with adult children of Vietnam veterans and I can only shudder at what’s in store for future children (and spouses, etc) of Iraqi veterans. I’d love to see some kind of organized campaign put together to advocate across the board mental health treatment for the vets…
“ROVE: Look. It is going to be what it’s going to be. I mean, you know, the Democrats are going to choose a nominee. I believe it’s going to be her. That’s their business. Maybe I made the mistake of trying to be — audition for a member of the Fox panel by opining about what might happen. But I think she’s going to be the nominee.”
Alicia @ 48
I dunno. I’m sure having a just cause helps, but I think the difference between the two may be more a matter of mass communications by the post-Vietnam era, rather than a big difference in the level of the problem. The Hell’s Angels, for example, were founded by WWII vets who couldn’t readjust to normal society.
I haven’t seen any links to this Iraq article from the weekend, “A Deadly Clash at Donkey Island”:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01270.html
The piece struck me as fishy, like another Haditha coverup. Bullets to the head of wounded Al-Quaeda jihadis, all wearing suicide vests. It’s hard to tell if the profuse detail offered the author of the piece has the ring of authenticity fabrication.
Redshift @ 49
Yes, exactly! We have to return to valuing human beings if we are going to make it; I truly believe this. Whether it’s actually caring that coal miners don’t die in preventable accidents, making sure everyone who works makes a living wage, or making sure of our soldiers’ physical and mental health.
If we don’t hold the importance of these values to be self-evident, then what have we become?
Matt Bai is on Talk of the Nation for those interested.
Phoenix Woman @ 32
That’s a good snippet from a very good op-ed. It brings up the fact that Iraq is a lot more complicated than it is portrayed in our media and that as an extension of this, our media and White House have constructed an entire parallel narrative to describe what is going on in Iraq. How can you establish a rational policy of any kind based on a politically written and driven fantasy?
BigMitch @ 41
I guess I see a difference between hostile diplomatic relations and actions. To say “Iran is openly hostile” is, to me, the kind of vague scare language the neocons use to justify vanity wars. Khrushchev banging his shoe and saying the USSR would bury us is a far cry from moving nuclear weapons into Cuba.
There is very little evidence that Iran has done anything to harm the US (contrast with Saudi Arabia), nor do they have the capability of harming us. Even if Iran does develop a nuclear bomb, they have no delivery system to strike at our country. And one or two bombs is not an arsenal, it’s just enough to frighten one’s neighbors.
Maybe this can rouse a giggle. One of Giuliani’s lies:
Victoria Toensing, of all people, refuting Giuliani! I love when these Repugs go after one another.
N=1 @ 58
That is encouraging, if there is follow-through.
wapo’weekly roundup of the buzz from the sunday talk shows’
had this interesting quote from karl rove-”He confided that it was not even his idea to come on the shows. “Somebody else made the decision for me,” he said, “and I’m just doing what I was instructed to do.”"
wonder who that person is………’doing what i was instructed to do’………
article has links to rove’s sunday show comments.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..newsletter
Alicia @ 64
Well, any kind of peace other than unconditional surrender by their opponents (military or political.) A lot of them seem to sincerely believe that we can only have peace if we’re strong enough to crush anyone who doesn’t like us. If you’re absolutely certain that there’s no other way, and impervious to all evidence to the contrary, and all evidence that no one can ever be that powerful in the face of asymmetric warfare, well, then you get what we’ve had the past six years.
If our foreign policy weren’t so blatently pro-Israel we would be able to avoid so many of these hazards. Whatever we as a nation gain from such a foreign policy (and I dispute that we gain anything much) it is not worth the cost to our country in blood and treasure.
Redshift @ 71
I’m not saying it wasn’t a problem – I know that it was (interesting about Hell’s Angels!) but I think that knowing that the country was on the same page about the war made a difference.
Never have so many, done so much, to increase the ranks of our enemies.
Frankly I don’t get it.
Did I miss the lesson that said if you’re losing a war against two nations, try to find two more to fight?
BigMitch @ 16
I think this POV is somewhat simplistic and short-sighted. Saying that Iran has been “openly hostile to the United States” without mentioning that the United States has been openly hostile to Iran throughout Bush’s presidency (remember the “axis of evil”?) is to present a rather one-sided perspective.
Remember that Shi’a Iran fought a bitter war with Sunni Iraq for years, and the Taliban in Afghanistan represent a different vision of Islam than Iranian ayatollahism. So what does George “the clumsy” Bush do? He makes war on both of Iran’s neighbors, reducing Sunni enemy Iraq to the status of a failed state, and distracting the Taliban. This must have made the Iranian Ayatollahs very happy. Every now and then, they send Ahmedinijad out to spout some nonsense to pull the lion’s whiskers. They know our army is over-extended and severely fatigued. Don’t forget that Iranians invented chess.
I’m not saying that Iran isn’t dangerous, and I agree that “we would be well advised to be serious and cautious about the threat posed”. I just wish our government would take a more sophisticated and less confrontational approach towards Iran that wasn’t overly filtered by Israeli-colored lenses.
Bob in HI
Dear George H.W. Bush,
Your son, George W. Bush, is failing as President. There are too many areas to mention here, but let’s just say that many people are dying because of him. I mention that he is failing only because you know how to handle this.
In the past, you have always stepped in and fixed things up for him before they got too far out of hand. That should be the job for the Democrats, but they aren’t capable of getting it organized. Plus, your plunder buddies int the Republic Party do everything they can to stand in the way.
The Nation needs you, Mr. Bush, one more time. It’s time for you to step in one more time, because this time, it affects all of us.
Sincerely,
Badwater
BigMitch @ 17
You could call this the Cuba strategy and has been spectacularly unsuccessful. Cuba is still there nearly 50 years on, just as Syria has been there 40 years on. Belligerence should be the policy of last resort not the first. Engagement, such as with China or even more recently with North Korea, has proven far more successful. Just saying.
dmac @ 79
I think it’s more likely that it’s just another lie from Rove, to reinforce his image as a key part of a powerful movement (but not actually responsible for any of the bad things, no!) Can anyone really imagine Rove not obsessively trying to shape his own image, and just wandering onto Sunday talk shows because “someone” (unnamed, of course) ordered him to?
Leahy on the main cspan channel
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Last day of my vacation.
Unfunny, I live 45 minutes from Montebello.
Funny;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw11CRhbDQU
jim oconnor @ 82
Our current policy toward Israel is not in either country’s longterm interests.
Hugh @ 86
As Dave Barry puts it — Central Intelligence Agency (motto: Overthrowing Castro since 1959!) *g*
dmac @ 80
It was Karl Rove’s evil twin brother Maurice.
Leahy says, “the WH has not complied with subpeona.
We aren’t asking for the operational details but what was the legality?
Bipartisan support for subpeonas.
I looked forward to compliance.
If we are going to consider more permanent FISA, we need full information. We cannot and should not legislate in the dark.”
This is basically a neocon talking point, word for word.
Hugh @ 91: Agreed.
i just got this and it’s almost on topic:
Reagan Diaries: May 17, 1986
Leahy on CSPAN now.
Leahy says “TIME IS UP”…well Senator get off your spineless butt and DO SOMETHING!
No more talk.
Yes ladies and gentlemen, it is time for the Lieberman War of the Week, who will it be this time. Why not attack Mexico while they are down after getting hit by Hurricane Dean??? How about, Angola, they might have oil? Or Yemen just for the hell of it?
Happy Birthday, Old Coastie. Semper Paratus!
Leahy: “time is up! we have waited long enough!
something, something – VP claims he is not part of the executive office.
some have suggested that they are trying to run out the clock.”
now, taking questions… didn’t hear anything he would do to enforce, but Leahy is using the word “contempt”.
Tithonia @ 98
Thanks!
bless you
Badwater @ 86
Actually, it would appear that Poppy can and does step in from time to time :-P
and…..Leahy is going to bring it up when everybody comes back to washington.
dmac @ 67
I hope Edwards gets a bump because of this. Progressive’s quit playing into Rove’s hand.
Leahy, “we will have to sit down with the committee and see if they want to issue citations for contempt”.
yellowdog jim @ 97:
707!
Ed*ard Teller @ 100
thanks ET!
Just what in the hell will Leahy do now? I finally agree that that these subpoenas are, and have proven, worthless…
Leahy, “we have to justify a program again in 5 months. the fact is they have been operating outside the law for years now”
I’m at work so I couldn’t watch. Did Leahey say anything about doing anything but griping about Bush some more?
Maybe a “stearnly-worded” letter about the importance of honoring a subpoena?
Threatening to say “Nee!”
Anything?
If there was no oil in Iran would the U.S. care about that nation?
Will Mr. Lieberman’s twenty year old son be signing up for military service if we attack Iran or Syria?
SufiLizard @ 112
he is still speaking
Leahy: “we very specifically did not issue immunity to the telco companies”
I really like Leahy…but enough is friggin ENOUGH……..contempt charges TODAY!
SufiLizard @ 112
He seems to be implying that he will be asking for a vote for contempt when the congress comes back. But other than that, no, not really.
What’s the strongest thing the Leahy has the POWER to do?
Lets see, Syria, with a population of roughly 16 million is helping what a million Irakis.
The US, with 300 million people, has destroyed the lives of tens of millions of innocent human beings for oily robber baron purposes..
Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?
I like to compare the Iraq debacle with my own anecdote:
—-
Two men need money. One says ‘lets rob a bank.’ The other starts to say ‘okay, but we will need a plan that details for every contigency.’
The first fellow says ‘you are overcomplicating everything. Besides by the time we get the plan done, it will be too late. It is simple – We go in, guns open and make our demands. Then scoot out in six minutes.’ The second fellow tries again to tell his friend some of the dangers, but is mostly ignored or called a pussy. The second fellow decides to go through with it because he doesn’t wanna look like a pussy..
They bust in the bank. Several known unknowns make themselves present during the robbery, and both crooks find themselves stuck in an alleyway with police hot on their tails.
During this time, the second one says ‘I told you so.’ The first one looks at the second one and says, ‘Okay, mister big ideas, how the hell do we get out of -THIS-?’
—-
Christie, completely off topic but in response to some question you put out there recently about things to watch:
Tomorrow HBO is showing a production of As You Like It directed by Kenneth Branagh that looks interesting.
We prefer Noam Chomsky’s views on foreign adventures to Mr. Lieberman’s.
That’s what I wondered, what CAN Leahy and congress do today, since almost everyone’s gone? Won’t any vote to subpoena or hold in contempt have to wait until September?
Leahy asked whether the new law grants immunity since the new law made everything they were doing illegally now legal. Leahy saying that there’s def no immunity but they can’t determine if what they did was legal/not legal or covered under the new law cuz they don’t know what they did to begin with.
Leahy: It did not make me confortable that Abu is now making the decision – that’s why I voted against it.
Leahy: “FISA law has been upgraded 30 times since its origin. perhaps Mr. Bush has not been briefed on this when he keeps insisting it hasn’t been visited since the 70’s”
yellowdog jim @ 97
This made me shiver. Why is this the first we hear of this. Stupid media.
SufiLizard @ 111
“Nee!”
Biodun @ 110
Unfortunately, if congress does not follow through with its subpoenas in some fashion, it will have abdicated much of its own power. This is extremely dismaying considering, of course, that the executive branch has made no such abdication.
yellowdog jim @ 96
Wow…and he’s still the one who hangs around here all the time looking “shiftless”.
Olbermann gets tryout on primetime NBC slot
Cuba, perfect example.
It must be some kind of chronic compulsive disorder shared by the Right fringe in this country…find a third world spit and make them a serious threat to America.
Totally laughable I guess, until you bring in the superPatriot nutjobs ala Ollie North.
I realize that Leahy can’t actually do much until Congress is back in session, but JEEZE! He could at least express a little more passion here.
Leahy: “these most recent changes go WAY BEYOND what is constitutional”.
4th Branch is back in the 4th Branch again..
This is all so absurd.
And why exactly did Leahy fly into town for this? “Well, I guess the committee will have to decide what they want to do.” No shit, Sherlock. There is no contingency action plan for the 100% chance this is what would occur? Crikey, this gets old.
ReneND @ 126
ronnie diaries have only just been released.
Zzzzzzz…wake me up if the Dems win back the EOP…thanks.
rwcole @ 118
All he can do is bring subpoena enforcement to a vote in the committee and then to the full Senate for a vote.
Leahy: had it all arranged with the intelligence community to take care of constitutional issue, but the VP office interferred.
When this extension regarding FISA you can guarantee that the Bush administration will take it to the ultimate interpretation that will make it convenient for them to continue with their agenda….
Not a very comforting thought but more than likely a reality we have to consider….
Leahy – “I will have no hesitation voting for contempt – if that’s what it takes.”
Leahy: I’ll have NO HESITATION voting for contempt, but we need to find out what happened here. don’t want this dragged out in court for 6 years…”
Who really is to blame for Joe Lieberman being a senator today?
Leahy MUST be getting beat up by his constituency at home, so he is doing some damage control.
He just said he will not hesitate to vote a contempt charge, but brought up length of court time.
yellowdog jim @ 96
Pushing 65 and standing firm.
;>)
Leahy says admin acted egregiously :)
Hope somebody has this press conference on tape.
LS @ 134
Well, it is a Monday in an even numbered month.
bmaz @ 135
Total waste of air fare. :-(
rwcole @ 118
They can basically ask the Constable-at-Arms to arrest those in contempt of Congress and then put them in jail in the basement of Congress. But they will never do that…
Leahy, answering USA question: “don’t want Justice dept. to interfere in law enforcement for political reasons”
Leahy – Two things can happened here. Either we find out what happened or we go thru 6 yrs of court battles. I want to find out what happened.
Um, Pat, their gonna make you go thru 6 yrs of court battles. Does he actually think there’s gonna be an accomodation??????
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
Boxer
Dodd
Bill Clinton
among others
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
Clinton
Rove
Mel Sembler
CT Republicans
And a few foolish CT Dems
I’m dejected.
yellowsnapdragon @ 132
Are there any leading Democrats that express passion? I think not and that’s part of their problem.
Gingrich was successful leading the Republic takeover because of his passion and charisma as a rhetorical bomb thrower. Where is a passionate and charismatic Democratic spokesman? There’s none to be seen now.
Elliott @ 153
with Congress out of session, there isn’t much he can do…
Elliott @ 154
but Leahy would make a classic leprechaun
If I were in the WH watching this, I would be doing the Snoopy dance. Leahy is saying absolutely nothing.
Stupid Goopers elected W, because they missed Reagan…
Bwahahahaha!!!!
What a bunch of moron boneheads.
Franco @ 152
I believe Dodd campaigned for Lamont. Correct me if I’m wrong.
OldCoastie @ 156
true. It’s just I had expectations beings that he flew in and all…
Leahy getting his back up about executive privelege.
now he’s done with the presser.
War, any war, always unleashes completely unforeseen consequences.
remember the good old days when domestic spying required the ‘plumbers’ to go and plant a wired microphone in the WaterGate Hotel, in order to bug the Democratic National Committee?
here we are in the 21st century:
chenybu$hco and AT&T can have at everything they could ever want, no muss, no fuss:
NO accountability; no consequences.
how can our Democrats run a campaign, while cheneybu$hco know everything they Might do, first?
well, that won’t make the nightly news.
Just watched Sen. Leahy on c-span. God, I love the ease with which he snarks.
“Maybe he’s just an extraordinary attorney general.”
I cannot figure out if there is actually a ‘Bush foreign policy’.
Hugh @ 160
He (sort of)campaigned for Lamont after the primary, but for me NOT enough. He was all over CT campaigning for LIEberman before the primary!
yellowdog jim @ 164
When you only do a single thing once in a while, it’s easy for the Repulbics to keep up. There’s may things to do; they need to start doing them in parallel.
Why can’t the Senators who subpoenaed the White House–and anyone else who wants to jump on–file a friend of the court brief in the ACLU matter?
Congress did it in the Pentagon Papers. It seems like an appropriate thing to do???
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..html?wpisr
here is an artice from peter baker about bush’s ‘plan for democracy for the world’…and where and how it started…..a book by an israeli-who gives him a c- on implementation, funny…and peter talks about how bush called himself a dissident……
describes failure after failure in his foreign policy.
is a long one, but very interesting, bookmark for a later read……lotsa names…….lotsa countries he has his fingers in……..explains a lot in my mind about the european trips he’s taken lately.
peter also has a few moments of hilarious snark.
twolf1 @ 130
Right on! It’s amazing that this guy is on cable, and now on network teevee? NBC should get some credit, in spite of all.
The people of Connecticut are responsible for Joe bein re-elected- they voted for him.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Today’s Doonesbury was kinda droll, in a sad sort of way. That’s the best I’ve got. Oh, and Vick is apparently going to save us taxpayers the expense of a trial by pleading out.
emptywheel @ 170
Appropriate or not, they seem to have a problem with the ‘doing’ part.
emptywheel @ 169
probably hasn’t occurred to them.
So I wonder if when the Senate comes back in September and there is a vote on contempt, how many Democratic Senators will vote with the Administration?
Alicia @ 49
Agree, it’s a wonderful idea.
Sort of like everyone who might have been exposed to X in a lab has to go thru decontamination process.
And an even numbered date.
Considering the mind numbing hubris of this administration….
At this point I believe I would be willing to wait to find out in the courts (even if it took five to six years) to find out exactly what kind of liberties were taking regarding our “liberities” during the Bush administration…
Badwater @ 155
They seem to be afraid of showing any passion. I simply don’t understand why. We could reframe all these talking points, apply a little passion, and counter all this rethug anarchy.
LS @ 159
Prime example: Jackie Mason on Rove. Clip was linked on Wonkette yesterday, so maybe y’all saw it already. I didn’t realize Mason had gotten so much funnier over the years.
Fresh post from Jane, up and ready for the reading…
QuentinCompson @ 69
If anybody deserves to cash in on their service at DOJ, I’d say Zeidenberg does.
Badwater @ 169
with cheneybu$hco using NSA supercomputers to hack the data-mining treasure chest?
jeebus! our folks will have to ONLY communicate in pencil on flash paper, with messenger pigeons.
email ONLY our disinformation.
OldCoastie @ 176
and That is soooo (fucking) SAD.
hugh at 93 says-”It was Karl Rove’s evil twin brother Maurice.”
i have an evil twin, too……….so does my best friend, in fact, everyone we know has one…….ha…..
and i have a button that says “i do whatever the little voices tell me to do”
my friend bill made me buy it, long story.
One of Reagan’s first act in office was standing on a carrier and hooting “We’re number one.” With mass of folks picking up the chant around the country like a bunch of football fans looking for a chance to exult in the reflected glory their heroes, a bunch of entertainers in gaudy tights. National-chauvinistic bonehead morons.
redshift at 88 says-”I think it’s more likely that it’s just another lie from Rove, to reinforce his image as a key part of a powerful movement (but not actually responsible for any of the bad things, no!) Can anyone really imagine Rove not obsessively trying to shape his own image, and just wandering onto Sunday talk shows because “someone” (unnamed, of course) ordered him to?”
yeah, that he’s just a minion! /s
Alicia @ 55
This lede definitely needs more light:
Recommended reading: (H/T to N=1)
Chapter 5-13 discharge from service
(aka don’t let the door..)
22,000 and counting….
Heh…CHS…you funny. Wait to find out the next step from Leahy on the permanent obstruction from the WH? Surely you didn’t really mean what that statement, you know, actually means? We KNEW the next step long before today came along: punt. Kick the can down the road AGAIN.
The moment I woke up and was reminded in my various readings that today was the due date from the WH wrt once-illegal (but no perfectly legal thanks to the Dems and their FISA vote last month) for documents, I knew that all that would happen was Leahy would extend his extension. Come Monday, he will either extend his extension to his extension again or send a stern letter.
Few things can be counted on as surely as relying on the Dems in Congress to fail to lead, fail to do their duty to the Constitution, and fail to uphold the rule of law.
How odd that the bad “news” of the failing surge has a ring of good news; the power of the truth is always refreshing and can focus one’s mind, assuming one has a mind.
And, Yes, the news has been bad with the miners and more. But for a bit of a snort, the pictures/rerun of Rove trying to rap were pretty good. Wallace could hardly stop running the clip and poking at Rove. Just to add to the fun, Rove brought out a “they made me do it” that made the piece just perfect. Do you laugh or gag?
emptywheel @ 170
I wouldn’t know how to do that. Can we get Christy or looseheadprop to write it, and then all of us who feel so inclined sign on?
Bob in HI
Franco @ 144
No way. Not in Vermont. He’s just stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Senate will not vote a contempt of Congress motion, and the White House will refuse anything less, and indeed that. So he’s afraid of setting a precedent. The problem, and he knows it, is that the precedents are being set right now. No future President will feel required to submit to a Congressional subpoena.
Set, Game, Match.
– Joe Lieberman advises (H/T to Think Progress) that the “road to victory” goes through Iraq Iran Syria. Yeah, that’s it. That’s the ticket. (Is it me, or is he becoming a Jon Lovitz parody (YouTube) more and more every day?)
thank god the good senator is not influenced by nor ‘dovetailing’ with any other nation’s foreign policy. *cough*
In light of the lack of mental health care given to our troops during and after deployment and the resulting increase in the suicide rate, try to read this about our poor beleagured diplomatic corps without getting angry.
“to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.”
just brilliant
Actually, I think he’s been getting a lot of support here – I know I’ve let him know I applaud his efforts.
Laura Rozen refers to “Bush’s vision of overturning tyranny and bringing democracy to Iraq.”
That’s a hoot. Vision? Geez, even the old man had trouble with “the vision thing” and he was a heluva lot better than Georgie.
Rozen still hasn’t figured out that this is all about balls and oil.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 143
Any of the 5 justices of SCOTUS who picked Bush to be president.
If they had let Gore be elected then Lieberman would’ve been Veep and out of the Senate (except to vote on ties).
yellowdog jim @ 164
You can run it right out in the open and discuss your strategy right to their face and it doesn’t change a thing. Surprising, but true.