Comments on: Sunday Late Nite: Openly Closeted? http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:13:21 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Shemp Lugosi http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907941 Shemp Lugosi Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:12:06 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907941 <p>Anyone who didn’t know Merv Griffin was gay obviously never watched his talk show. I realized it as far back as 1969.</p> Anyone who didn’t know Merv Griffin was gay obviously never watched his talk show. I realized it as far back as 1969.

]]> By: David Ehrenstein http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907620 David Ehrenstein Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:42:53 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907620 <p>What a thread!</p> <p>I go to bed and wake up to find a discussion of Merv Griffin’s closet lifestyle (and it IS a lifestyle) has turned into a roundtable on Nancy Reagan’s Giant Head!</p> <p>Nancy homophobic? She’s one of the biggest Fag-Hags the world has ever known! Not as chic as Edie Sedgewick, and not as brilliant as Dorothy Dean (and who is?) but for YEARS her best pal was the late great society “Walker” Jerome Zipkin.</p> <p>Back in the Golden Age of Hollywood Cary Grant and Randolph Scott shared Jerry Zipkin.</p> <p>No this isn’t mindless gossip — Brendan Gill wrote about it in <em>The New Yorker</em>.</p> <p>Yes, <em>The New Yorker</em> !</p> <p>(Paul Schrader’s forthing come <em>The Walker </em>is largely inspired by Jerry Zipkin)</p> <p>Whe Jerry died, Merv replaced him at Nancy’s side. </p> <p>And with Michael Deaver dead, Poor Nancy is running out of both black dresses AND closeted gay men to gossip with.</p> <p>Of course there’s always Barry Mannilow. . .</p> <blockquote><p>“I thought it was so weird that these supposedly straight men thought New Mexico was like another planet or something. As if we didn’t know who they were, or didn’t speak English or something.<br /> The only one I can think of now is the guy that played Perry Mason and Ironsides.”</p></blockquote> <p>Honey, several years ago there was an entire A&E Biography on Raymond Burr, his closetedness, his invention of wives and children he never hand, and on and on. His surviving lover (who has the spread in Hawaii) is interviewed on the show.</p> <p>But you needn’t look there. Just get the DVD of <em>A Star is Born </em>( the one starring Judy — it’s the only one that counts) as the “extras” include a very good transfer of the kinescope of the live TV broadcast of the premiere at the Pantages theater. This is amazing in itself as it was the last great movie premiere of the Golden Age with everyone still alive back then showing up. And in 1954 that meant a ton of people.</p> <p>Raymond Burr is there with his “beard” for the evening (a giggly starlet) AND the most drop-dead gorgeous sailor you ever saw — a Tom of Finland fantasy in the flesh. Burr actually<br /> has the cojones to present this piece of trade to the TV audience (pure deer-in-the-headlights on the kid’s part) explaining “I’m just showing this fine young man some of the glamour of Hollywood.”</p> <p>Anything you say, Ray.</p> <p>Besides being the most unlikely-looking Big Ol’ Gay Homosexual you ever saw, Raymond Burr has proven to be a great inspiration to cross-dressing lesbians — Drag Kings.</p> <p>I’m sure you all can see why.</p> What a thread!

I go to bed and wake up to find a discussion of Merv Griffin’s closet lifestyle (and it IS a lifestyle) has turned into a roundtable on Nancy Reagan’s Giant Head!

Nancy homophobic? She’s one of the biggest Fag-Hags the world has ever known! Not as chic as Edie Sedgewick, and not as brilliant as Dorothy Dean (and who is?) but for YEARS her best pal was the late great society “Walker” Jerome Zipkin.

Back in the Golden Age of Hollywood Cary Grant and Randolph Scott shared Jerry Zipkin.

No this isn’t mindless gossip — Brendan Gill wrote about it in The New Yorker.

Yes, The New Yorker !

(Paul Schrader’s forthing come The Walker is largely inspired by Jerry Zipkin)

Whe Jerry died, Merv replaced him at Nancy’s side.

And with Michael Deaver dead, Poor Nancy is running out of both black dresses AND closeted gay men to gossip with.

Of course there’s always Barry Mannilow. . .

“I thought it was so weird that these supposedly straight men thought New Mexico was like another planet or something. As if we didn’t know who they were, or didn’t speak English or something.
The only one I can think of now is the guy that played Perry Mason and Ironsides.”

Honey, several years ago there was an entire A&E Biography on Raymond Burr, his closetedness, his invention of wives and children he never hand, and on and on. His surviving lover (who has the spread in Hawaii) is interviewed on the show.

But you needn’t look there. Just get the DVD of A Star is Born ( the one starring Judy — it’s the only one that counts) as the “extras” include a very good transfer of the kinescope of the live TV broadcast of the premiere at the Pantages theater. This is amazing in itself as it was the last great movie premiere of the Golden Age with everyone still alive back then showing up. And in 1954 that meant a ton of people.

Raymond Burr is there with his “beard” for the evening (a giggly starlet) AND the most drop-dead gorgeous sailor you ever saw — a Tom of Finland fantasy in the flesh. Burr actually
has the cojones to present this piece of trade to the TV audience (pure deer-in-the-headlights on the kid’s part) explaining “I’m just showing this fine young man some of the glamour of Hollywood.”

Anything you say, Ray.

Besides being the most unlikely-looking Big Ol’ Gay Homosexual you ever saw, Raymond Burr has proven to be a great inspiration to cross-dressing lesbians — Drag Kings.

I’m sure you all can see why.

]]> By: spiky http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907592 spiky Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:09:11 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907592 <p>thanks for the excellent reporting! once again it seems that the blogosphere speaks plainly about what we’re all aware of while the msm plays cover-up.</p> <p>nevertheless i must say i’m a little surprised that the observations in this entry reads like “news.” isn’t it old news that powerful people remain in the closet mainly for strategical reasons, i.e. because they can have power as presumed “straight” people? visible queer folks can’t get very far, especially if we dissent from the HRC-sanctioned program of marriage etc. (and many of us do). shouldn’t, for instance, 10% of the house be openly queer, to reflect the population? it might, if being visibly queer didn’t scare the bejesus out of the rest of y’all. ;) of course, the queers are already there. we always are. but they’ve twisted themselves into “straight” mannequins.</p> <p>hence the propensity of mogul-types like merv griffin to maintain a non-queer persona. queer people have understood this for a long, long time. we see it everywhere we go. anyway, i’m thrilled that this kind of reporting is appearing on firedoglake! once again the truly high-quality journalism appears here. but a friendly reminder to y’all non-queer leftists: this is old news. we queer folks are glad you’re picking it up. there’s much more where this came from. come into our world & make yourselves at home!</p> thanks for the excellent reporting! once again it seems that the blogosphere speaks plainly about what we’re all aware of while the msm plays cover-up.

nevertheless i must say i’m a little surprised that the observations in this entry reads like “news.” isn’t it old news that powerful people remain in the closet mainly for strategical reasons, i.e. because they can have power as presumed “straight” people? visible queer folks can’t get very far, especially if we dissent from the HRC-sanctioned program of marriage etc. (and many of us do). shouldn’t, for instance, 10% of the house be openly queer, to reflect the population? it might, if being visibly queer didn’t scare the bejesus out of the rest of y’all. ;) of course, the queers are already there. we always are. but they’ve twisted themselves into “straight” mannequins.

hence the propensity of mogul-types like merv griffin to maintain a non-queer persona. queer people have understood this for a long, long time. we see it everywhere we go. anyway, i’m thrilled that this kind of reporting is appearing on firedoglake! once again the truly high-quality journalism appears here. but a friendly reminder to y’all non-queer leftists: this is old news. we queer folks are glad you’re picking it up. there’s much more where this came from. come into our world & make yourselves at home!

]]> By: big brother http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907447 big brother Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:08:19 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907447 <p>Hello;<br /> There is no IRAQ anymore. Bush have divided it back to the pre 1920 British model. An article in the NYT by seven 82nd Airborne non coms gives the most realistic evaluation of the American occupation of Iraq, the dissolving of their government the tribal/religious fractionalization and the emergence of a possible Shite state aligned with Iran who were defined as the “Axis of Evil” by the Bush administration. Bushco has caused the political demise of a nation, destroyed the infrastructure and caused 4 million people to be homeless, 600,000 Iraqis slaughtered not to mention the death of 3831 of our brave troops doing their duty. He has elevated nuclear tensions an armed the disarranyed factions. Worse even yet he has destabilized the whole region, caused Americas international and national reputation to be in the sewer with torture and disregard for the Geneva Convention, and wasted our national treasury creating a mountain of debt unparalleled in our history. He has politicized our Judiciary and all branches of government illegally and against the Constitution. In deregulating the economy by appointing industry corporate officials the foxes guarding the hen house, he has pushed the economy to the brink of recession (”It’s the economy stupid”). He has brought our military to the breaking point while threatening to start another war with Iran. He has let escape Osama Bin Laden the chief of Jihad terrorism against USA and the instigator of 9/11. He has reduced our liberties and spying on us by satellite and our daily telecommunication which may be available to the RNC we do not know as he has thumbed his nose at Constitutional Congressional oversight by invoking “Executive Privilege” to stonewall thc U.S. congress and has installed an Attorney General and the Justice department as a “Firewall” against ‘We the People”. We are now more at peril of terrorism than ever and he has ignited the wrath of the 1.5 billion Muslims throughout the world. In doing this he has destroyed the reputation of the “grand old party”. Republicans of Barry Golwater ilk such as Jon Dean are schocked at their neocon right-wing extremists who show no restraint in stooping to political “dirt tricks”. If this administration is not held accountable a signal will be sent to future administrations that “the rule of law” is no restraint against immoral, unethical behavior and crimes against humanity. If extremism of the East is met with extremism from the West then the future of civilization is at the brink of annihilation.<br /> This administration has shown no willingness to stop these actions. Impeachment by the US House of Representative, whether the Senate convicts or not, is now the only way for the American public and the US Congress to get to the bottom of who did what and what were criminal activities. This is an indictment of the far right who has united church and state against the wishes of the founding fathers who understood what devisiveness that has created. If we wish to continue to be controlled by a corporate oligarchy then Impeachment is off the table. If we wish to go back to democratic principals of transparent government by the people then we must Impeach this out of control administration who has abused their power and usurped even more power toward executive dictatorship.</p> Hello;
There is no IRAQ anymore. Bush have divided it back to the pre 1920 British model. An article in the NYT by seven 82nd Airborne non coms gives the most realistic evaluation of the American occupation of Iraq, the dissolving of their government the tribal/religious fractionalization and the emergence of a possible Shite state aligned with Iran who were defined as the “Axis of Evil” by the Bush administration. Bushco has caused the political demise of a nation, destroyed the infrastructure and caused 4 million people to be homeless, 600,000 Iraqis slaughtered not to mention the death of 3831 of our brave troops doing their duty. He has elevated nuclear tensions an armed the disarranyed factions. Worse even yet he has destabilized the whole region, caused Americas international and national reputation to be in the sewer with torture and disregard for the Geneva Convention, and wasted our national treasury creating a mountain of debt unparalleled in our history. He has politicized our Judiciary and all branches of government illegally and against the Constitution. In deregulating the economy by appointing industry corporate officials the foxes guarding the hen house, he has pushed the economy to the brink of recession (”It’s the economy stupid”). He has brought our military to the breaking point while threatening to start another war with Iran. He has let escape Osama Bin Laden the chief of Jihad terrorism against USA and the instigator of 9/11. He has reduced our liberties and spying on us by satellite and our daily telecommunication which may be available to the RNC we do not know as he has thumbed his nose at Constitutional Congressional oversight by invoking “Executive Privilege” to stonewall thc U.S. congress and has installed an Attorney General and the Justice department as a “Firewall” against ‘We the People”. We are now more at peril of terrorism than ever and he has ignited the wrath of the 1.5 billion Muslims throughout the world. In doing this he has destroyed the reputation of the “grand old party”. Republicans of Barry Golwater ilk such as Jon Dean are schocked at their neocon right-wing extremists who show no restraint in stooping to political “dirt tricks”. If this administration is not held accountable a signal will be sent to future administrations that “the rule of law” is no restraint against immoral, unethical behavior and crimes against humanity. If extremism of the East is met with extremism from the West then the future of civilization is at the brink of annihilation.
This administration has shown no willingness to stop these actions. Impeachment by the US House of Representative, whether the Senate convicts or not, is now the only way for the American public and the US Congress to get to the bottom of who did what and what were criminal activities. This is an indictment of the far right who has united church and state against the wishes of the founding fathers who understood what devisiveness that has created. If we wish to continue to be controlled by a corporate oligarchy then Impeachment is off the table. If we wish to go back to democratic principals of transparent government by the people then we must Impeach this out of control administration who has abused their power and usurped even more power toward executive dictatorship.

]]> By: kaleidescope http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907272 kaleidescope Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:33:55 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907272 <p>This I remember clearly from my mid-80’s NYC law school days. Circa 1987 — mainly downtown in both the east and west village — there was a series of posters and even billboards outing famous powerful people as gay. One of the subjects of these posters and billboards was Merv Griffin. Ole Merv never really denied it. Very serious people thought the posters were beyond the pale.</p> This I remember clearly from my mid-80’s NYC law school days. Circa 1987 — mainly downtown in both the east and west village — there was a series of posters and even billboards outing famous powerful people as gay. One of the subjects of these posters and billboards was Merv Griffin. Ole Merv never really denied it. Very serious people thought the posters were beyond the pale.

]]> By: Margot http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907255 Margot Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:24:20 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907255 <p><a href="#comment-907223"><em>Suzanne @ 284</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Margot, Raymond Burr?</p></blockquote> <p>That’s it. But I only had this old boyfriend’s word on that, and he died years ago of a heart attack, so who knows.</p> Suzanne @ 284

Margot, Raymond Burr?

That’s it. But I only had this old boyfriend’s word on that, and he died years ago of a heart attack, so who knows.

]]> By: Raph Levien http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907239 Raph Levien Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:16:12 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907239 <p>There’s a big difference between being in the closet and being a hypocrite. One is being private about one’s own sexuality, the other is actively harmful to other people. Using one’s power in the workplace to slime sexual favors is also reprehensible, and that’s true whether one is Mark Foley or a vanilla hetero.</p> <p>I think we need to be compassionate to those of us who are still (to some extent) still in the closet for whatever reasons. I’m not sure where Anderson Cooper is on that spectrum, but I for one am not going to judge him.</p> There’s a big difference between being in the closet and being a hypocrite. One is being private about one’s own sexuality, the other is actively harmful to other people. Using one’s power in the workplace to slime sexual favors is also reprehensible, and that’s true whether one is Mark Foley or a vanilla hetero.

I think we need to be compassionate to those of us who are still (to some extent) still in the closet for whatever reasons. I’m not sure where Anderson Cooper is on that spectrum, but I for one am not going to judge him.

]]> By: althespook http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907230 althespook Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:12:06 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907230 <p><a href="#comment-907228"><em>TeddySanFran @ 288</em></a></p> <blockquote><p><a href="#comment-907203"><em>demi @ 265</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>So, Teddy, what did you think of Edwards’ response?</p></blockquote> <p>I would like to back a candidate who thinks I should marry. Quite frankly, I’m counting on Elizabeth to change his mind. He’s committed to doing all a President can to get as close as we can. </p> <p>But I’d still like him to marry us in the Rose Garden!</p> <p>Also, <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/late-late-sunday-a-dodd-squad-homage/">new thread!</a></p></blockquote> <p>The sound of xtian fascisti heads exploding from the live coverage on cspan would make that well worth the price of admission, Teddy…</p> TeddySanFran @ 288

demi @ 265

So, Teddy, what did you think of Edwards’ response?

I would like to back a candidate who thinks I should marry. Quite frankly, I’m counting on Elizabeth to change his mind. He’s committed to doing all a President can to get as close as we can.

But I’d still like him to marry us in the Rose Garden!

Also, new thread!

The sound of xtian fascisti heads exploding from the live coverage on cspan would make that well worth the price of admission, Teddy…

]]> By: TeddySanFran http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907228 TeddySanFran Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:10:42 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907228 <p><a href="#comment-907203"><em>demi @ 265</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>So, Teddy, what did you think of Edwards’ response?</p></blockquote> <p>I would like to back a candidate who thinks I should marry. Quite frankly, I’m counting on Elizabeth to change his mind. He’s committed to doing all a President can to get as close as we can. </p> <p>But I’d still like him to marry us in the Rose Garden!</p> <p>Also, <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/late-late-sunday-a-dodd-squad-homage/">new thread!</a></p> demi @ 265

So, Teddy, what did you think of Edwards’ response?

I would like to back a candidate who thinks I should marry. Quite frankly, I’m counting on Elizabeth to change his mind. He’s committed to doing all a President can to get as close as we can.

But I’d still like him to marry us in the Rose Garden!

Also, new thread!

]]> By: CTuttle http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907226 CTuttle Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:10:19 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/19/sunday-late-nite-openly-closeted/#comment-907226 <p><a href="#comment-907217"><em>Bob Schacht @ 279</em></a></p> <blockquote><p><a href="#comment-907189"><em>TexBetsy @ 252</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>An insider’s guide to the upcoming week<br /> from washingtonpost.com - Politics by Post</p> <p> the clock runs out on the latest deadline for the White House to turn over materials regarding the National Security Agency’s eavesdropping program to the Senate Judiciary Committee.</p> <p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/19/AR2007081901397.html?nav=rss_politics">http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....s_politics</a></p></blockquote> <p>Ah, so. When Congress reconvenes, they can ponder that, together with whether or not to “fix” the FISA mess, no? </p> <p>BTW, I’m beginning to like the idea of “fixing” the FISA mess by DOING NOTHING– and letting the da** thing expire. I’m afraid that if Reid and Pelosi try to “fix” it, they’ll wind up making things worse.</p> <p>Bob in HI</p></blockquote> <p>Scarecrow and EW, plus others, have seriously exposed the travesty of the FISA Cave-in(Retreat Mining within the House)…!!! 8-(</p> Bob Schacht @ 279

TexBetsy @ 252

An insider’s guide to the upcoming week
from washingtonpost.com – Politics by Post

the clock runs out on the latest deadline for the White House to turn over materials regarding the National Security Agency’s eavesdropping program to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..s_politics

Ah, so. When Congress reconvenes, they can ponder that, together with whether or not to “fix” the FISA mess, no?

BTW, I’m beginning to like the idea of “fixing” the FISA mess by DOING NOTHING– and letting the da** thing expire. I’m afraid that if Reid and Pelosi try to “fix” it, they’ll wind up making things worse.

Bob in HI

Scarecrow and EW, plus others, have seriously exposed the travesty of the FISA Cave-in(Retreat Mining within the House)…!!! 8-(

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