One of our favorite oh so serious people is at it again. Michael O'Hanlon of the amazing high flying Iraq Touring (or should we say Green Zone touring) Pentagon PR team - has written a paper arguing for the partition of Iraq. Since this appears to be a new favorite scheme (and was supported by Dr. Porter rather strongly in our Blue America discussion yesterday) it seems like a good time to share the thoughts of an actual expert on Iraq and the partition idea.
Enter Reidar Visser - an actual expert on the regional aspects of Iraq and its history. Visser is a Research Fellow at the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs (NUPI) and specializes in the Middle East and issues of regionalism and national structures. His publications are available at his website Historiae. (I've quoted at length from Dr. Visser's writings over the past year so everyone can read some solid analysis of this issue - Visser provides a solid response and he deserves to be heard.)
The Partition idea began to gain traction last year amongst Democratic leaning, "liberal" pundits and really took off with the publication of Peter Galbraith's "The End of Iraq." Visser reviewed Galbraith's work for the History News Network and warned of the danger of this new "liberal" thinking taking hold amongst US policy circles. Galbraith's argument for partition is based in his experience in Iraq but as Visser notes: "it also becomes clear that his Iraqi contacts follow a highly biased pattern, where Kurdish elites (plus Ahmad Chalabi and a few other secularists) seem to dominate."
Galbraith writes at length of his experiences in Kurdistan - an account Visser describes as: "a blunt and autobiographical account of how a US intellectual became deeply engaged in fuelling Kurdish ideas about breaking ranks with the rest of Iraq. In considerable detail Galbraith explains how he personally fostered many of the specific Kurdish demands for federalism, including principles which in one form or another would later find their way into the current Iraqi constitution."
Visser continues:
Galbraith is at pains to render Iraq as an “artificial” and highly fissile construct. Indeed, he accuses his political opponents of “a misreading of Iraq’s modern history” (p. 206). But as soon as he moves beyond his particular area of expertise – the Kurdish north – the narrative becomes less convincing and the arguments more strained. For instance, Galbraith on two occasions reiterates the now widespread but highly erroneous notion that current ethno-religious divisions in Iraq strongly correlate to the old administrative organization of the Ottoman Empire: Mosul was supposedly “Kurdish”, Baghdad “Sunni”, and Basra “Shiite” ...
In reality, however, Mosul was essentially a mixed-race province, whereas Baghdad, though home to a large Sunni community, was probably the largest Shiite province of the Ottoman Empire – with its borders extending as far south as today’s Muthanna governorate and with all the rural territory surrounding the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala solidly Shiite, Baghdad was actually far more of a Shiite point of gravity than was Basra (which politically was Sunni-dominated). This in turn means that there was never any such close fit between ethno-religious and administrative maps as that suggested by Galbraith, and that Iraq has in fact a far longer record of ethno-religious coexistence than he seems prepared to admit.
In the Fall of last year, as Joe Biden got really wound up with his "Plan", Visser wrote a particularly good analysis which pointed out the serious flaws of this approach:
A few days ago, an angry voice could be heard on television: “Like heck we can’t tell the Iraqis what to do.” This was Joseph Biden, the Democratic senator! Yes, it is probably true that, if the United States seriously wishes to enforce a division of Iraq – by circumventing the Iraqi constitution – it has the military capability to do so. But it would be a tragic outcome of the supposed democratization of Iraq if Washington should choose to exit by neo-imperialistically imposing a particular state structure on the country. It would alienate huge sections of the Iraqi population. It would be a gross provocation to most of Iraq’s neighbors, who view a tripartite federation as a particularly brittle state structure and a powder keg in terms of potential regional instability. And it would be the ultimate gift to al-Qaida – who would finally get the manifest evidence they have been craving in order to back up their conspiracy theory of the US as a pro-Zionist force bent on subdividing the Middle East into weak and sectarian statelets. Senator Biden would do well to consider the long-term damage to American interests that would follow from such reactions before he annexes Basra to the Middle Euphrates, merges Diyala and Kut, and rips the heart out of Mosul.
And now we have O'Hanlon and Edward P. Joseph, Visiting Scholar and Professorial Lecturer, Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University trying once again to impose their vision on the reality of Iraq:
But what a plan! In “The Case for Soft Partition in Iraq” Joseph and O’Hanlon plunge into the modalities of bringing about “the organised movement of two to five million Iraqis”, no less, in order to create a decentralised state based on three ethnic communities. There is no question about the number – it has to be three. In fact, the authors are deeply worried that the Iraqi constitution with its protection of Baghdad as a separate entity (constitutionally, the Iraqi capital is not allowed to become part of larger federal regions) may create problems with regard to the consistent implementation of their own ethnic logic; they therefore demand that the capital region be partitioned too – with the Tigris river recommended as the most suitable partition line. The absence of popular support among Iraqis (they themselves acknowledge that “Sunni and Shiite Arabs have traditionally opposed partition, hard or soft”) does not seem to deter them at all; instead they choose to focus on the “comparable” example of Bosnia-Herzegovina, “where one of us worked extensively”.
On pages 9 to 11, Joseph and O’Hanlon (who in 2006 complained loudly in the US press after having been marginalised in the sessions of the Iraq Study Group) enumerate in greater detail the supporters of their plan. They appear to be, Joseph, O’Hanlon, most Kurds, and Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim, a Shiite politician. The authors are too modest: they could have added al-Qaida, which would welcome this kind of federation as a permanent scar on Iraq that would prove to the whole world how “Western crusaders are intent on dividing the Muslims”,...
What then follows in the section on “Implementing Soft Partition” should have come with some kind of warning to the reader. Here, using cool academic language, the authors review the nuts and bolts of relocating somewhere between 2 and 5 million Iraqis in order to create new ethnic federal entities. Snippets from this part of the report probably speak best for themselves: “we advocate where possible dividing major cities along natural boundaries” (p. 16); “on the actual day of the relocation operation, Iraqi and US-led coalition forces would deploy in sufficient numbers to look for snipers, cover the flanks of the civilian convoys, inspect suspicious vehicles for explosives and conduct similar tasks” (p. 17); and finally, on p. 24, “this [internal border] control system would place some burdens on Iraq’s internal trade and other aspects of its economy. It would complicate the efforts of individuals to cross from one region to another to visit family and friends. For the most part these burdens would be bearable. For individuals or businesses that need to make frequent crossings across Iraq’s new internal borders, or those willing to pay for the privilege, an EZ pass system [sic] might be developed to expedite movements for those with important and regular business to conduct.”
As Visser notes in today's NYT Week in Review:
"despite arguments by those in favor of partition, “Iraq has no tradition of being compartmentalized into neat, sectarian entities,” except for a relatively brief period between 1880 and World War I.
“For long periods before the 1880s, the Ottoman Empire governed these lands as one,” he said. “It is untrue that the three Ottoman provinces that became Iraq in 1921 were characterized by clear sectarian identities.”
The conclusion to his critique of the O'Hanlon paper ties it all together as he describes the fantasies of these oh so serious people which conflict with the desires of the Iraqi people:
But in general, this popular dimension is only rarely reflected in media reports from Iraq, which instead tend to focus on propaganda by sectarian political parties that have good communications skills and are able to spin small gatherings of their diehard supporters as “massive demonstrations”. The problem is highlighted by these authors themselves: Joseph and O’Hanlon assert (p. 8) that there is “strong evidence” that “violence is steadily eroding national unity” – with a footnote to a short article by American journalist Sabrina Tavernise! Instead of engaging in this kind of contrived referencing they and other partitionists should take a long look at their own arguments, deal honestly with their most glaring denials of Iraqi facts (ranging from the mameluke government of Baghdad in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century to the cross-sectarian support seen in April 2007 for Shadha Hassun, the Iraqi contestant in the Arab “Star Academy”), and then ask whether there is anything left at all. The US invasion of Iraq was based on lies; it would do irreparable damage to the entire Middle East as well as American interests in the region if also the mechanics of withdrawal should be informed by fabricated evidence.
(added emph throughout is mine)
h/t to Jerid and thanks to mfi for introducing me to Visser's work.
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that close!
This one takes some reading folks - but I’m sorta tired of the pundit class announcing what should be done to Iraq … instead of supporting *Iraqi* sovereignty.
Someone, please, tell me the perfect solution for Iraq.
It’s not partition? OK.
Tell me.
Thought provoking post..I am going to do more research..along with this post I will re-link the NYT op-ed for those that haven’t read it.
www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opi.....oref=slogi
Jonathan @ 4
Get out. Let Iraqis solve the problem. I am convinced that nothing they come up with will be worse than what we are doing, or would be doing if we didn’t pull out.
Steve - that NYT OpEd is superb … Eureka Springs had sent it along to me and I thought it was very important to read.
Thanks for bringing it up - I had no more room!
I told ‘em downstairs.
So the bottom line is we pull out of Iraq. It is after all… not our country. Does anyone honestly think we would have gone into Iraq if there were no natural resources there? I think our government refers to these resources as “our” vital interests.
Siun you are COOKING today!
Any chance O’Hanlon will co-author a book with Scott Peterson about how to improve spousal relations.
Just how much shitty advice do people need to offer before they end up with destroyed credibility these days?
-GSD
If the CIA installed the Peacock Throne in Iran, what makes us think we can’t do it again? Bush is just nutty enough to believe Cheney.
Laura … LOL! I am tired today!
and in immense awe of Jane and Christy!
GSD - OHanlon is quite a trip, eh?
I am so glad Glen is taking him on …
But HRC (among others) instruct us we can’t just pull out.
Steve-AR @ 5
Iraq is broken.
There are no bumper sticker answers.
The US is part of the problem, and needs to leave.
Multi-lateral negotiations in the region are the only workable start, and no-one on any side can foretell the end.
Any other promise, other than to work honestly and multi-lateral, is a delusion and a lie.
Pandora’s Box, that is all I can think of. Our “leaders” have created chaos, and they are forced to stand there with their finger in the dyke….indefinitely. D’oh.
What to do?
Is Chalabi really any worse than Cheney or Rumsfeld? Or for that matter Wolfowitz or Lieberman or Bibi?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
Damn Okk, you have a way with words.
albert fall @ 16
I agree with you. This is why we should never have gone in.
Is Hussein worse than…
Loo Hoo. @ 21
“Was”
I should note that Visser’s work includes a lot of really good info - I don’t always agree with him politically but I sure respect his scholarship. See in particular his analysis of the BBC poll of Iraqis … he really digs in (like Marcy!)
Was.
Mr. LS, will you please stand up?
albert fall @ 16
Iraq is broken.
And the last point is highly unlikely.
It’s like that Monty Python sketch… that is one dead parrot, Kaput! finito! Kicked the bucket!
the Iraqi State is over, decomposing. US influence there is entirely and only baleful. Liberal hawks with a new kind of think-tank tested of CPR are just angling for positions in the Clinton Admin, giving her talking points to cover up continued occupation.
So lets see. we have rove all over the sunday comedies. We have a bunch of military types trying to let everyone in on the well worn facts that we are getting lied to on a daily basis. We have the UK generals telling anyone that will listen that it is time to decamp this goddamned desert and head home. We have any congress person that can get someone else to fund their latest trip heading off to Iraq so that they can come back and proclaim the genious of the general who was unsuccessful in training the Iraqi police. We have the media stooges lapdogging the concept of the true evil ones- THE IRANIANS!- and here we have a philosophical discussion regarding who the hell cares.
While the verbiage is exciting and the concepts seriously can’t be challenged, our folks are dying or being mutillated on a daily basis.
Well, as I see it- the college kids are coming back and we will have one last oppurtunity to show this govt just who owns this country! Its marching time! It is Take Back time! It is PUT UP OR SHUT UP TIME!
Loo Hoo. @ 24
??? He’s at a gig.
This is stunning. I’m frankly speechless at the grotesque idiocy of Joseph and O’Hanlon’s level of analysis and planning. This is reminiscent of another era, circa 1942:
Snippets from this part of the report probably speak best for themselves: “we advocate where possible dividing major cities along natural boundaries” (p. 16); “on the actual day of the relocation operation, Iraqi and US-led coalition forces would deploy in sufficient numbers to look for snipers, cover the flanks of the civilian convoys, inspect suspicious vehicles for explosives and conduct similar tasks” (p. 17); and finally, on p. 24, “this [internal border] control system would place some burdens on Iraq’s internal trade and other aspects of its economy. It would complicate the efforts of individuals to cross from one region to another to visit family and friends. For the most part these burdens would be bearable. For individuals or businesses that need to make frequent crossings across Iraq’s new internal borders, or those willing to pay for the privilege, an EZ pass system [sic] might be developed to expedite movements for those with important and regular business to conduct.”
TexBetsy @ 20
We should never have gone in, period. To do so was wrong.
Any discussion today about how the “war” in Iraq was handled incompetently is badly, completely, off point, in my opinion.
Which Democratic presidential candidate will respond? The next time Joe Biden claims to be the only candidate with a plan to get out of Irak an opponent needs to say, “Yeah, Joe, but it’s a stupid plan.” If this idiotic, American-centric partition plan can be derailed, much of the -mentum of Biden’s campaign ends.
Someone needs to call Biden’s bluff on this, with exactly the arguments in your excellent post, Siun. What happens to mixed families on Relocation Day? What happens to businesses that serve all ethnic minorities? What happens to communities, homes, schools? Isn’t it enough that ten percent of the population are external refugees and another ten percent are internal refugees? Why must we cause more pain — and lend credence to yet another alQ argument!! — by imposing a colonialist solution?
Good to see that the EZ Pass manufacturer has found a gravy train, though! Jeebus.
It is starting to like like the fruits of Poppy Bush’s labor may be paying off for once in getting his dissipated, loser son out of the lurch once again.
The French foreign minister has paid a surprise visit to Iraq and the UN has voted to expand their mandate in Iraq to help the development of governmental organizations.
I guess Poppy was getting tired of watching little Georgie lose his baseball game.
-GSD
Yeah, but this Visser guy just seems like some pointy-headed academic who cares all about figgerin’ out what’s happening in reality in Iraq.
What the heck does he know about sounding impressive to powerful politicians and feeling the zeitgeist of US liberal hawk politics?
Tennessean - that sorta summed up for me the immoral arrogance of the pundit class.
Perhaps they’d like to go talk to some real Iraqis - in 130 degree heat with no water, no electricity and no food … about the wonders of EZPass?
LS @ 27
Thought he was lurking about!
Loo Hoo. @ 21
I try to look at problems as opportunities, but I think this one stopped being an opportunity some time ago. At one time, the end of Saddam’s reign was an opportunity for something better, but it sure appears that neither Iraq nor our own government were ready to make something of it.
Now it’s a mess, and our best choice probably is to get out. I suspect it’s Iraq’s best option, too.
Siun,
Thanks for this excellent lead to providing an opportunity to discuss an important subject. I almost became a Kurdish specialist in Grad School (in anthropology), and instead wound up as a spec*al*st in Iranian ancient history, with some expertise in the ancient languages of Iraq. From my perspective, Iraq has mostly been a unified political construct, dominated by different power centers: the South, under the Babylonians, the North, under the Assyrians and later under the Kurds (Saladin), and sometimes the East (under the Persians, such as Cyrus).
Our national policy is for a trilateral balance that has seldom been achieved in 5000 years of Iraqi history. Such a balance has proven unstable. The best one can hope for, under normal circumstances, is for relatively benign despotism by one of the power centers.
Its a bit like trying to balance a CD with a penny, nickel, and dime on it, on the end of a pencil. It can probably be done, for a short time, with a great deal of difficulty.
I notice that your intro also does not mention the fact that Turkey will not tolerate an independent Iraqi Kurdistan, and that Iran will probably try to undermine any region dominated by the Sunni: We have to pay attention to the external dynamics as well as the internal dynamics.
I would like to hear Dr. Visser’s comments on these observations.
Bob in HI
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
The bloated conceit of the ‘Washington elite’ is based upon the fallacy that they are all such intellectually-brilliant thinkers and ‘opinion leaders’. In truth, their cozy sinecures deped almost solely on their parrot-like ideological obedience to their masters.
As we saw with the rush to war in Iraq, the large majority of them are craven, cowardly herd animals of no integrity or independent thought, easily stampeded, and ever-attentive to regurgitating the handed-down propaganda of their masters.
Most of them exhibit less evidence of a brainstem than the average machine tool.
“Hello! I am an Iraki with important and regular business. Could I please have an EZ Pass?”
GI: “Sure!”
.
.
.
{{ boom !! }}
Ethnic cleansing via EZ Pass.
Loo Hoo. @ 34
He was. He’s playin’ now. :}
Teddy .. you mean you don’t think it will work out brilliantly? pshaw!
Jonathan @ 29
I think you’re right.
This is like contemplating how a Code Blue could have gone better, if only.
If only the doc in the first place hadn’t operated on a patient who wasn’t sick or hurt, if only there had been enough staff, if only there had been oxygen around, if only the crash cart had been resupplied correctly with the right meds, if only he’d noticed the patient had no pulse…and on and on.
Mods– what happened to my comment? Did it get trapped in moderation? Did I use a bad word?
Bob in HI
Bob Schacht @ 42
it’s here. hit refresh
Good one, Margot.
Sure hope the dems hold tight after the report next month. And defund anything other than getting our troops and the Iraqis who have helped them out.
Siun @ 33
But the new EZ-pass will deflect snipers bullets, and automatically avoid roadside bombs! The developer (a joint operation of Halliburton and Microsoft) promises!
Good grief. “Spec*al*st” is a bad word? My mind is boggled. The mystery of filters eludes me.
Thanks, Mods, for doing what needed to be done.
Bob in HI
Tom Friedman has offered a very serious resolution to this problem:
Just suck it.
-GSD
Here is an interesting article indicating that Iran has been striking into the Kurdish regions of Iraq.
It would appear that this is likely another pressure point being applied by the US to undermine the Iranian regime.
The poor Kurds are being strung along and will get tossed under the bus at the most convenient time for the US.
Note also the reporter indicates that they toured the Kurdish rebel area and saw no indication of US weaponry…..in an effort to douse concerns about US supplying of anti-Iranian groups.
Yet we know that 190,000 AK47’s were misplaced under then General Petraeus. In other words, the US can supply weaponry that is not American made thus keeping their hands ostensibly clean.
Very cynical indeed.
Thank you, Siun, for bringing to light the reality of mixed
ethno-religious coexistence in Iraq.
Whatever happens, a rebuilding plan should include people of all groups working side by side, so there is ownership and pride, thus protection of the infrastructure that will support their everyday lives (and create jobs).
Deja vu much?
Of course our myopic (to put it nicely) congress is conceptualizing any human motive of protection as predicated on separated parties. But the reality of human dynamics is protection comes from shared ownership. It also flies in the face of their fractured history, to enjoy every day the fruits of their shared labors.
Those of mixed lineages already know this.
We need to get the rebuilding teams in there.
The military has them, but they are waiting in the wings until they are tapped to do their jobs (i.e, funding sent in their direction).
Watch this Alive in Baghdad clip as one example of rebuilding the infrastructure. Powerful stuff –
If congress is to authorize continuation of any funding after Sept, it should be specifically earmarked (even though Bush said no nation building).
When it comes to the vote, it will become painfully clear that they are voting on funding rebuilding over there vs. over here.
Then we can drive home everything we’ve said about defense spending.
Sorry, had to get that out there –
OT..but more immoral arrogance..
Texas defies federal court with plan to execute man who did not kill
· Controversial state law led to murder conviction
· Accomplice had sat in car 25 metres from shooting
www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0.....mp;feed=12
Regardless of Iraq, the Palestinian-Israeli situation continues to fester.
The Times also has a diary showing something of the life we have given the Iraqis, by Alissa Rubin, captioned Elegies From an Iraqi Notebook.
We have done great evil, and are being led into worse.
Bob Schacht @ 46
Spe C I A L I S t
Loo Hoo. @ 43
Loo Hoo (I love your handle), I believe we’re going to have a smooth, seamless transition from the Bush regime to what comes next.
Bob Schacht @ 46
What’s wrong with the word spec*a*ist. (test)
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
What is the Iraqi’s solution? It is their country. The are extremely smart. Let them decide.
Bob Schacht @ 46
Words within words Bob…
Bob Schacht @ 45
Look closely within that word for a drug featured during most Countdown commercial breaks; the one that ends, oddly enough, with the couple in separate clawfoot bathtubs.
Bob, c*al*s is the bad word. Unfortunately, it’s embedded in a spec*al*st and soc*al*st…
Phucking Pharma.
LS @ 53
Rudyard Kipling would be appalled.
TeddySanFran @ 57
He’s dead.
Bob - glad your comment got through! I didn’t know about your studies … I’m jealous.
Visser’s own work centers on Basra and the south - and he does say a great deal about the very diverse attitudes Iraqis have towards Iran - including amongst Shiites (again, much to our pundit class’ dismay). I haven’t read comments from him on Turkey (may have simply missed that) but I’d be interested in what you think of his perspective on Iran’s role.
GSD @ 47
The Iranians are only slightly less opposed to an independent Iraqi Kurdistan than the Turks, because Iran has a sizable Kurdish population, too, in its western provinces. If the Kurdish areas of Turkey, Iran, and Iraq were allowed to unite, you’d have one of the most powerful non-Arab states in the Middle East, on a par with Turkey and Iran.
Bob in HI
LS @ 60
Hence the “would be” and not the “is”.
Steve-AR @ 49
Sean-Paul Kelley has been covering this in great detail at the Agonist. Here’s one of the latest. It’s personal for him.
I find it odd lately how nobody ever mentions Muqtada-al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army when they talk or write about the end game in Iraq. He is the undisputed spiritual leader of the majority in Iraq, the Shia. He has been formidable militarily in the past and I think he will be the leader of Iraq, maybe minus the Kurds, when the day of reckoning finally comes. The MSM and politicians seem to be ignoring him but I think he is just chilling waiting for the US to make their move so he can move in and take control when they leave or pull back to some outer perimeter of yet to be determined location. There ain’t going to be no three state everyone gets along and stays on their own side solution. What about the many inter-married sunni shia families, where do they go?
A good night OT: The Pump Handle blog has a must read that will set your hair on fire. I hope that Tula or Jane or Christy will keep the mine safety problem front and center because it reflects so many broader worker safety problems and loss of protections. This blog has been absolutely extraordinary in its description and analysis of the general and specific problems.
TexBetsy @ 52
Ah! Comes the dawn. Thanks for the explanation.
Bob in HI
The only thing that scares me anymore is WW III. And some argue it has already begun. If so… we, the United States started it under the leadership of one, George W. Bush.
I would have guessed that this information was freely available prior to the beginning of this mess, It would have been nice to have included it in the planing. Oh thats right there was no planing and no thinking about the war, just a big get r done.
All I ever hear about is what the Iranians think, the Americans think, the Norwegians think, the Saudis think. What do the Iraqis think???? It’s their country.
TexBetsy @ 61
I know. Just snarking.
Biden’s first Iowa ad promotes his “plan” and is getting TradMed traction, since he’s so serious and all:
Apparently, Biden plans to campaign on a discussion of flag-draped coffins in planes he rides home from Irak, a place he has a plan to carve up.
Again, which candidate will break away from the Biden plan and dare to call him foolish?
Get the hell out of Iraq, America.
marshen @ 65
Good points. Muqtada al-Sadr has been playing his hand well, and I think you are right that is militia will dominate in the South. The question will be, how much will he attempt to control?
As for your last question, this is one of the tragedies. Baghdad used to be an integrated city, open to all of the minorities. For an answer, look for what happened after the British partition of Pakistan and India at the time of their withdrawal sixty years ago. It was a very ugly scene, and one that I am sure is on the minds of those remaining few in this administration who are actually trying to think and plan ahead. There must be a few of them, most likely in the State Department. Condi Rice might listen to them, but Cheney won’t. And apparently Biden won’t, either.
Bob in HI
Bob, that is why the Kurds will get sold out by the US when the time is right.
-GSD
Oklahoma kiddo @ 67
Some Rightards argue that this is WW IV or V. Clearly, any sense of perspective disqualifies you from being a Rightard.
Maybe the reason O’Hanlon and the rest like partition is that Kurdistan in the North of Iraq would be inherently destablilizing to Iran, and would also be a problem for Turkey. More of the Great Game for the realpolitik crowd.
Thanks for this post, and thanks for introducing Prof Vitter’s work.
Does he have an analysis of that nice, thoughtful, and learned Prof. Friedman’s ’suck on this’ plan? I would like to read it.
Here is what is going on in Jamaica, as we speak (link per Siun earlier):
http://www.jamaicans.com/forum.....p;fpart=13
Yes, why doesn’t Barack Obama or John Edwards ask Joe Biden how his plan is different than what happened during the Indian/Pakistan partition? A million people died then.
And how does Senator MBNA plan for this to be any different on Relocation Day?
Someone needs to start calling him Senator Mountbatten.
GSD @ 74
The Kurds have been thrown under the bus for centuries. I remember Bill Safire writing about them in the 80s and 90s, explaining their cursed history.
Visser! I been groggy all day from excess summer lazing. Sorry. I will remember, Visser, when I do the internet search.
GordonM @ 76
Their intention is Perpetual War…WWII forever…..no way!!!!!
EZ Pass, good gawd! Why not just tattoo a bar code on every Iraki cheek and give them a little gps implants, like cattle. the pentagon can hire a new PR firm to tell the Irakis, Prada told us it was fashionable this year.
Cowboy fascist partitioning, now there is a winning idear.
Although it is interesting to note that the ISG report reincarnated by Blue Dogs and DLC lovin Senators seems to have lost ground over the last month.
The goal-post keeps moving in a circle.
masaccio @ 81
I think Robert Fisk called them the worlds orphans.
Sad indeed.
-GSD
If al-Sadr is canny enough a political leader to reach out to the Sunnis? If he is, he could indeed morph into the strong, unifying, nationalist leader, a “Ho Chi Minh” figure if you will, that could turn Iraq from the occupation of a nation in civil war, to a unified nation fighting to throw off an occupier. He would have the support of Iran, and the Mahdi Army could serve as the nucleus of an Iraqi Army, as all other efforts to build an Iraqi Army appear to have failed.
Eureka Springs @ 84
That’s a beauty.
Off-topic:
Sen. Leahy lands role in Batman movie
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ahy_batman
LS - thanks for the mention of Jamaica … I am listening now to reports from there. My favorite Power160 is all static but National Radio is streaming well and you can hear the reports from Jamaicans who tell what is happening and hold each other up to get through this horror. The storm sounds worse than Ivan which mashed up by favorite part of Jamaica … gonna need a lot of help when this is done.
http://www.nationwidenewsnetwork.com/
just click on the words “listen to 550″ to stream
Reports are that the eye is passing just south, cat 4, Kingston winds sustained 130 MPH - just hitting western tip now … a long night for the people of the island.
masaccio @ 81
IIRC..The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world that doesn’t have a country.
Yeah, RonD - thanks to Bush, we’ll soon be ‘uniters of the Middle East!’
Kyle @ 37
This is the same mentality as a 14th century French court.
A Distant Mirror - Amazon link
RonD - the Sadrists have not been a Shia only movement and have tried to protect minorities in their area. I’m not sure what he would do in power but it’s not the simple demonized tale we get to hear.
Wes Clark at YearlyKos
During the Q&A after his address: