Howdy, Jane!

Zed?

Jane!

Yeah!!

Yeah, as to the press, I’ve asked why it is some institutions even exist, they do such an utterly crappy job.

Wish that more people would read The Pump Handle blog and other health policy blogs.

Why is it that our blogs are so marginalized?

OT: Fire in the old Deutche Bank building in NYC. It was on fire on 9/11. It is unoccupied I believe, and I think it is under “deconstruction”.

Also perhaps watch “How Green Was My Valley”.

Wouldn’t George W. Bush be responsible for these deaths? He made the recess appointment against all advice and even the good-for-nothing 109th.

what we have lost
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..ref=slogin

And there is still much to be learned from “The Grapes of Wrath”.

Best short Jane Hamsher essay. ever.

Concern Over Wider Spying Under New Law

By JAMES RISEN and ERIC LICHTBLAU

I messed up above, sorry

semi OT – 181 Chinese miners trapped by flooding

Hi Jane. Howdy y’all.

Jane, did you hear my cousin is going to be a reporter too?

Oh, and Elite Media, Arianna Huffington and some furry Internet persona have a thought or two to add.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 11

And there is still much to be learned from “The Grapes of Wrath”.

Love that book…

Really love the old movie with Fonda…

I believe the situation in the novel regarding the migrant population is really relevant to today’s “out-sourcing” of US jobs…

I think you know what I mean….

MATEWAN (1987)

by John Sayles
Detailing what came to be known as the “Matewan Massacre” in the midst of the bloody and contentious nine-year unionization Coal Wars (1912-1921).

It should be apparent by now from NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, outsourcing, the DLC and the “third way” that the American worker is obsolete. And who is the Democratic front runner? A Leadership Team Leader for the DLC. Good Gawd.

Ed*ard Teller @ 12

Best short Jane Hamsher essay. ever.

I don’t know, it’s awfully difficult to narrow it down to a top ten for me..)

But..But… I have a 5000 sq’ house, a monster SUV, and a 60″ plasma teevee. What would a 30 year old documentary about striking Kentucky miners have to do with me?

This is what 27 years of Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush economic policies have brought us. Exploding steam tunnels, falling bridges, collapsing mines and nearly unstoppable climate change. Not to mention the destruction of the labor movement along with American middle class. And now the entire world economy is on the verge of collapse.

And I’m afraid it will get worse before it gets better, so hold and get ready for the ride.

Handling of mine disaster questioned

…

Mine Safety and Health Administration director Richard Stickler had already come under fire for being slow to take public control of the scene.

Even though Stickler’s agency is supposed to be in charge, the mine’s colorful co-owner, Bob Murray, has dominated news conferences, narrated video of rescue efforts for TV news and — despite safety concerns — personally led reporters and family members on a tour of his mine.

The fact that MSHA let anyone, including rescuers, into the still-dangerous mine is raising new questions. Others also predict greater scrutiny of the agency’s decision to allow mining at Crandall Canyon at all, given what it knew about conditions that made the mine particularly unstable.

“Despite misleading and self-serving comments to the contrary … these miners’ lives were jeopardized because of the acts of men,” United Mine Workers of America International President Cecil Roberts said Friday. He expressed doubts about whether MSHA and the mine’s owners “fulfilled their responsibilities” to keep the miners and their rescuers safe.

…

I am pro-choice. Not just about the issue of abortion. I am pro-choice about not having the DLC ram their candidate down my throat or up my…

N=1 @ 6

Wish that more people would read The Pump Handle blog and other health policy blogs.

Why is it that our blogs are so marginalized?

For those of us on each of the overlooked fronts, it can be astonishing to experience how long it takes to attain critical mass (tipping point) much less critical masses (accountability).

Part of it is a numbers game, to be sure.
Part is a proximity game, as well.

People don’t really care until it affects them or someone they know (and care about). Or until it becomes painfully obvious that they could be affected next (infrastructure is a good example, workplace safety another, both of which are now gaining on, or surpassing, terra)

Keep pressing onward, N=1.
Seems that the tipping point is right about now…

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

What exactly will the tipping point be? I’m curious. How far down does our country have to go before the citizenry feel the pain, in a collective sense, to cause an uprising? Are we that busy? Are we hypnotized?

fyi-dr. porter is still downstairs in the blue america thread, answering questions in the order they were submitted-he’s on #123………..make sure to go back later and read it……is this a record?

AZ Matt @ 23

Handling of mine disaster questioned

…

Mine Safety and Health Administration director Richard Stickler had already come under fire for being slow to take public control of the scene.

Tula Connell pointed out that while he was a mining company executive, his company’s safety record was twice as bad as the average. Bush installed him using a recess appointment, because even Congress couldn’t vote for him. This appointment happened after the Sago disaster, which you think would have been enough of a wakeup call for any Administration.

kinmo @ 27

What exactly will the tipping point be? I’m curious. How far down does our country have to go before the citizenry feel the pain, in a collective sense, to cause an uprising? Are we that busy? Are we hypnotized?

Bottom of a collapsed mine seems to be less than half way there…

Jonathan @ 26

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

Clinton was honest and competent, not sure what he did good for Americans, unless you credit him with a vibrant economy. I’m having a hard time thinking of any positive Clinton legislative achievements. JFK would have to be the most recent one who fits the bill.

(Yes, I’m skipping Carter. He wasn’t very successful domestically.)

Haven’t seen Harlan Co. yet, but it’s on my Netflix list. I saw Matewan just a couple of months ago. Great film.

It’s a shame films like these aren’t stocked in the local video stores. Not in my neck of the woods anyway.

dmac @ 28

fyi-dr. porter is still downstairs in the blue america thread, answering questions in the order they were submitted-he’s on #123………..make sure to go back later and read it……is this a record?

Actually, he’s up to #127 now, which was Chris Bowers’ question(s). His answers I quite good, I think.

Cujo359 @ 29

AZ Matt @ 23

Handling of mine disaster questioned

Tula Connell pointed out that while he was a mining company executive, his company’s safety record was twice as bad as the average. Bush installed him using a recess appointment, because even Congress couldn’t vote for him. This appointment happened after the Sago disaster, which you think would have been enough of a wakeup call for any Administration.

Not in this Maladministration! When the foxes are put in charge of all the coops, and they devour all the eggs along the way… it shouldn’t come as any surprise…!!! ;-)

OMG, I cannot afford this pop quiz

from Amazon

Harlan County, U.S.A. – Criterion Collection

Harlan County, U.S.A. – Criterion Collection (DVD)
Buy new: $39.95 $28.99 71 Used & new from $27.00

Jane, just loved The Iceman Cometh, love the caption, love the botox information. And on a radio guy no less, could there be anything more insanely narcissistic?

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

For brutal mining movies I’d recommend Germinal, based on the Émile Zola novel. It takes place in France in the mid-1800s but captures the class warfare and brutal conditions of mining quite dramatically.

Traditional Media is complicit in all manner of Republican evil. The dissemination of war propaganda and union-busting are favored themes b/c the Media belongs to Rupert Murdoch, Jack Welch and a handful of other lesser- known Republicans (whose numbers are in decline as bigger fish like Murdoch and Welch buy them out).

It appears that progressives are beginning to understand that the Media are not bumbling fools at all, but that they willingly and intentionally disseminate right wing propaganda b/c they are so ordered by their corporate masters.

Walter Kronkite was by most accounts a tool and a right-wing hack until he found it beneath his principles to further disseminate pro-war propanganda. President Johnson said that he lost the American Public (and lost the war) when Kronkite made disparaging remarks about the Viet Nam War.

It seems beyond hope today for any Media Bobblehead to bite the hand of his master in the name of principle.

If anyone does, he will be a genuine patriot.

Apologies to Olbermann. We need a Network News converted Kool Aid drinker.

JFK. Excluding Carter of course. Broke the back of the steel industry. “Centers of Power”.

There are others.

puppethead @ 31

Jonathan @ 26

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

Clinton was honest and competent, not sure what he did good for Americans, unless you credit him with a vibrant economy. I’m having a hard time thinking of any positive Clinton legislative achievements. JFK would have to be the most recent one who fits the bill.

(Yes, I’m skipping Carter. He wasn’t very successful domestically.)

I remember JFK and he didn’t fit the bill. I think RFK would have made the cut. I think you are stuck with Clinton as the best fit.

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

Thomas Frank’s “What’s The Matter With Kansas” is a good place to start.

Saw the immediate aftermath (bodies being brought in station wagons to a high school) of a mine explosion on December 23, 1951.

Orient #2 Mine, West Frankfort, Illinois.

A cold, drizzly Sunday. Very, very grim

119 killed. I was 6.

Mining is inherently dangerous.

The only protection for miners is a union.

But…but…but…reportering is hard work! Do you really expect the media to interview a suspicious mine owner who seems like a Scooby-Doo villian AND interview experts on geology and mines? I mean, they’d have to make AT LEAST two phones calls, and they might have to, like, drive to some completely different place.

It’s is difficult to judge JFK. He only was not permitted, as we know, to live through his first term. He was cut down by Limbaugh and O’ Reilly types.

Given the death toll in Iraq, and the rising death toll of miners, when do we start looking seriously at alternative sources of energy?

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

People are more concerned about lesbians getting health care benefits than they are about workplace safety.

PeteCO @ 46

Given the death toll in Iraq, and the rising death toll of miners, when do we start looking seriously at alternative sources of energy?

Half of Florida will be underwater before it happens.

Frank Probst @ 47

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

People are more concerned about lesbians getting health care benefits than they are about workplace safety.

Do we point out to them that when the vote for repukes then nobody gets health care?

Frank Probst @ 44

But…but…but…reportering is hard work! Do you really expect the media to interview a suspicious mine owner who seems like a Scooby-Doo villian AND interview experts on geology and mines? I mean, they’d have to make AT LEAST two phones calls, and they might have to, like, drive to some completely different place.

And they might have to talk to smelly working class types.

The impression is that the MSM is ‘corporate’, and will not change. At least not in time to make a difference in our children’s lives.

PeteCO @ 50

Frank Probst @ 44

But…but…but…reportering is hard work! Do you really expect the media to interview a suspicious mine owner who seems like a Scooby-Doo villian AND interview experts on geology and mines? I mean, they’d have to make AT LEAST two phones calls, and they might have to, like, drive to some completely different place.

And they might have to talk to smelly working class types.

Gross! Someone should complain to the hotel staff!

Frank Probst @ 44

But…but…but…reportering is hard work! Do you really expect the media to interview a suspicious mine owner who seems like a Scooby-Doo villian AND interview experts on geology and mines? I mean, they’d have to make AT LEAST two phones calls, and they might have to, like, drive to some completely different place.

Or they could read the newswires. The AP and Reuters seem to have worked out what was really going on pretty early in the process.

Still too much work, I suppose…

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

Tough one, Cassie.
My short answer is: our current, money, money , money, MONEY driven electoral/campaign system has perverted the Founders’ ideal of “one person, one vote” to something much, much closer (too $#@$%4 close) to “one DOLLAR, one vote” (or any dollar-unit you choose.). Oh, and large corporations with lots of money are somehow considered “people” on many levels. Thus, the wealthy have far, far more say over what the gov’t does and, naturally, the Owning Class has only its OWN best interests at heart.

As for why so many “ordinary” americans fall for the ‘thuglican lies? Well, don’t we all want to be rich and powerful one day?

FunnyDiva

Jonathan –

LBJ.

You know, I read that the asshole running MSHA came from Pennsylvania’s Office of Deep Mine Safety. If true, I bet he was a Ridge appointment. Even with the lucky Que Creek recovery, that was an accident that never should have happened. What a shame. Pennsylvania once had the finest deep mine safety operation in the world. They were actually flown to Poland and Britain to assist in rescues and did massive consulting for other programs. Also in Ohio and West Virginia. I fucking hate the reThugs. They fuck up everything they touch. Everything.

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

Cassie, they own the media. Most people get their news from TV. All they get to see are republican talking points edited to look like news, and celebrities with substance abuse problems. They did not have to let Murray dominate the mine collapse story, they chose to. The corporate media owners like nice simple parables that keep Americans dumbed down and confused as to what is truth and what is fiction.

Frank Probst @ 44

But…but…but…reportering is hard work! Do you really expect the media to interview a suspicious mine owner who seems like a Scooby-Doo villian AND interview experts on geology and mines? I mean, they’d have to make AT LEAST two phones calls, and they might have to, like, drive to some completely different place.

Matthew Wald of the NYT is one notable exception. He usually reports about air safety (ground, passengerand air traffic control), energy production, and infrastructure. He responds to readers’ emails, and he just contributed to one story about the mine situation that was an exception to the traditional media’s ignorance of miniiing safety.

Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition shortages hitting police departments nationwide and preventing some officers from training with the weapons they carry on patrol.

[My bold added]

I guess we can’t fight them anywhere else because we are out of bullets.

SnarKassandra @ 37

I am confuzled. It seems like there’s a lot more regular Americans than mine owners and rich people. A lot more people with regular jobs that can imagine themselves getting hurt or killed at work. So how do the rich people manage to convince so many regular people that doing what is best for the owning class is better than doing what is best for the MAJORITY of the rest of us?

Dear SnarK,

I like your talent for seeing the big, important questions that ought to be obvious but which few people seem to see — if they do see them, then they often skip through the answers as though the answers were easy: I have the feeling that you do not do that.

So, if these were other times, I’d suggest that you think about becoming a researcher. However, grants being what they are these days (non-existent, or as good as), I can’t point anyone in that direction in good conscience.

Figuring out the real answer to your question is thesis material for a historian, followed by a contract for a best-selling book.

When you find your answer, it will show us how the country was lost (only for a while, God willing).

Anyway, that’s my $.02 worth.

PS That’s Tom Ridge from Erie fucking Pa, who was running the “Department of Reich Security”.

SnarKassandra @ 49

Frank Probst @ 47

People are more concerned about lesbians getting health care benefits than they are about workplace safety.

Do we point out to them that when the vote for repukes then nobody gets health care?

Right but we get to see the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings as that’s more important…

Shell @ 55

Jonathan –

LBJ.

LBJ probably fails the honesty portion.

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

dakine01 @ 60

SnarKassandra @ 49

Do we point out to them that when the vote for repukes then nobody gets health care?

Right but we get to see the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings as that’s more important…

Then we should point out all the commandments that Bush and the govt are breaking all the time.

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

Then 15 yr olds SHOULD be running the govt and old people should be sitting in social studies class!

Cassie,

My short lesson on mine safety and politics.

Candidate A, who is very bright, wants very much to get elected.

Getting elected takes money, as you will find in 2032 when you run for president.

Legislation, which Candidate A believes is needed to protect miner safety, is being debated on the Senate floor.

Candidate A is a senator.

Candidate A gets a call from Mr. X, who is very wealthy and very deep in the shadows. He urges Candidate A in very blunt terms, which Candidate A understands, to vote against the legislation.

Candidate A announces on the Senate floor she will vote against the legislation because it does not go far enough to protect miner safety.

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

so that explains it

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

Like I used to know not to write, “you have had received”…;>

Jonathan @ 43

Saw the immediate aftermath (bodies being brought in station wagons to a high school) of a mine explosion on December 23, 1951.

Orient #2 Mine, West Frankfort, Illinois.

A cold, drizzly Sunday. Very, very grim

119 killed. I was 6.

Mining is inherently dangerous.

The only protection for miners is a union.

Something Jared Diamond pointed out in his most recent book is that mining is a tough business in which to make a profit. That fact creates incentive to take all sorts of shortcuts and risks. For the workers, there needs to be some countering force to make sure those things don’t happen.

As we’ve seen, while there is a government agency that’s supposed to regulate these things, it’s possible to short-circuit it.

I’m not a fan of unions, but I don’t think I’d want to work in a coal mine without one.

SnarKassandra @ 64

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

Then 15 yr olds SHOULD be running the govt and old people should be sitting in social studies class!

Pretty much! Some…15 year olds…

SnarKassandra ‘08!!!

Jonathan @ 26

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

Hmmm…can we narrow that down to the last president who did lasting good things for people? I’d say FDR, although most of it is dismantled by now…

SnarKassandra @ 64

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

Then 15 yr olds SHOULD be running the govt and old people should be sitting in social studies class!

Patience is a virtue, Cricket…!!! ;-)

Cassie, one of the ways the elites keep the “people” voting against their own interests is by offering what is mostly a false premise, that they can by hard work join the elite. They also employ fear and divisiveness, to keep middle- and working-class groups fighting each other while they keep going to the bank. They also control the media and decides who has access to how much information.
The only cure is to educate yourself.

CTuttle @ 72

SnarKassandra @ 64

Then 15 yr olds SHOULD be running the govt and old people should be sitting in social studies class!

Patience is a virtue, Cricket…!!! ;-)

The teaching goes both ways…

LS @ 7

OT: Fire in the old Deutche Bank building in NYC. It was on fire on 9/11. It is unoccupied I believe, and I think it is under “deconstruction”.

It was across Liberty St from the South Tower. I am not real big on the beauty of buildings but always thought that was a nice looking building.

LS @ 74

CTuttle @ 72

Patience is a virtue, Cricket…!!! ;-)

The teaching goes both ways…

Oh so very true…!!! *g*

Why is a lame-duck administration trying to push this?

WASHINGTON, Aug. 18 — Broad new surveillance powers approved by Congress this month could allow the Bush administration to conduct spy operations that go well beyond wiretapping to include — without court approval — certain types of physical searches on American soil and the collection of Americans’ business records, Democratic Congressional officials and other experts said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..ref=slogin

SnarKassandra @ 64

LS @ 62

It is said that by the time you are 16, you have had received enough information to be able to see things really clearly for a very brief time, then you spend the rest of your life tangled up, trying to remember what you used to know. Something like that.

Then 15 yr olds SHOULD be running the govt and old people should be sitting in social studies class!

Go, Cassie, Go!

Maitwan.

Hazel rules.

TradMed also misses this point: mine owner Murray is a great buddy of Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader, who is married to the Labor Secretary, Elaine Chao, whose agency oversees the Mine Safety and Health Administration. She is the boss of Stickler, in other words.

Here’s more:

Two for the money

WASHINGTON – Millionaire coal magnate Bob Murray knew the name to drop in September 2002, when Mine Safety Health Administration inspectors confronted him about safety problems at his mines: Sen. Mitch McConnell.

Murray, a large man with a fierce temper, is a huge donor to Republican senators. McConnell, R-Ky., rose through the ranks by raising money for those senators. And McConnell is married to Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, whose agency oversees MSHA.

Shouting at a table full of MSHA officials at their district office in Morgantown, W.Va., Murray said: “Mitch McConnell calls me one of the five finest men in America, and the last I checked, he was sleeping with your boss,” according to notes of the meeting. “They,” Murray added, pointing at two MSHA men, “are gone.”

Murray, in a recent interview, denied that he referred to McConnell “sleeping with” Chao.

But nobody disputes that district manager Tim Thompson, at one end of Murray’s jabbing finger and the man whose notes recorded the meeting, was transferred to another region, away from Murray’s mines. He appealed the transfer for three years until he grudgingly took retirement in January. Labor Department officials refuse to discuss his transfer.

dakine01 –

I know I am jaded, but NO president is completely honest. No, not even Jimmy Carter.

Did LBJ completely screw up with Viet Nam? Yes. But did he pass some great social programs? Yes. In fact, at one of the signings for a civil rights law, he said, “I have lost the South for a generation.” If ONLY it was ONE generaton!

So — to me, he was the last president to pass long-lasting, meaningful law for progressives. (And remember, even FDR had his drawbacks.)

SnarKassandra @ 63

dakine01 @ 60

Right but we get to see the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings as that’s more important…

Then we should point out all the commandments that Bush and the govt are breaking all the time.

Unfortunately, many (most?) of the tru-believers are convinced that all they have to do is shout “I BELIEVE IN JEEBUZ” at the top of their lungs all the time and all will be forgiven, no matter what their actions may be.

It doesn’t really matter to me who gets in. Hillary or Obama. ‘Cause they know what’s best for me.

JDM @ 56

You know, I read that the asshole running MSHA came from Pennsylvania’s Office of Deep Mine Safety. If true, I bet he was a Ridge appointment. Even with the lucky Que Creek recovery, that was an accident that never should have happened. What a shame. Pennsylvania once had the finest deep mine safety operation in the world. They were actually flown to Poland and Britain to assist in rescues and did massive consulting for other programs. Also in Ohio and West Virginia. I fucking hate the reThugs. They fuck up everything they touch. Everything.

Dude, you need to calm down and quit being so fowl mouthed and rude everytime you make a comment.. Try catching flies with honey.

dakine01 @ 61

SnarKassandra @ 49

Do we point out to them that when the vote for repukes then nobody gets health care?

Right but we get to see the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings as that’s more important…

As is keeping children safe from the gay agenda, and punishing anyone that looks or believes differently from us, righteous, God-fearing folk.

Guess that’s another part of my answer: There are an awful lot of average people out there who are just plain narrow-minded and mean-spirited. And the ‘thuglican party is expert at playing on their prejudices and vindictiveness.

FunnyDiva

The “Majority” are strapped for money. They live check to check to maintain whatever they are maintaining. The “powers that be” frighten them into believing that any “programs” that could help other people, will cost them their cash flow in the form of taxes. The Majority would need to hang on to their meager cashflow, so they can eat, rather than risk losing cashflow; which they can’t afford to lose. The “powers that be”, who don’t have to worry about losing a little cashflow, actually get “rewarded” for towing the lie by not having to contribute according to their income bracket. Ultimately, no one wants to help anyone. It’s every man for themselves. The “powers that be” fear, because they too are brainwashed, that if they give up anything, they will immediately regress back into the cauldron of the majority…besides, they just don’t seem to care.

Real reporters would get in the face of a guy like Murray and refuse to allow him to pontificate and give self serving statements. A famous newspaperman whose name escapes me said his job was to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.”

Job requirements for a presidential candidate:

ambition to be president that overrides all else

huge loads of political smarts

a huge rolodex and knowledge how to use it

some blackmail cards

some promises that will never be made public

a willingness to do whatever is necessary without any conscience

nothing else

Our Elite Media cuddle up to Murray for the same reason they spit on John Edwards: They are either The Man themselves, or desperately want to be.

You could make the argument that 15 year olds are running the country. Emotionally speaking, but that is really an insult to most 15 year olds. Speaking only for myself, I could benefit from some social studies classes. That is one of the things I like about the lake, I’m always learning something new.

jim o’connor @ 89

Real reporters would get in the face of a guy like Murray and refuse to allow him to pontificate and give self serving statements. A famous newspaperman whose name escapes me said his job was to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.”

Finley Peter Dunne

Phoenix Woman @ 90

Our Elite Media cuddle up to Murray for the same reason they spit on John Edwards: They are either The Man themselves, or desperately want to be.

PW — In my opinion, it’s Them and Us. Plain and simple.

LS –

I say BS to that argument. Is what you said true? Yes, of course. But why are they so cowardly? It’s as if they are working at McDonald’s and can never get another job.

Look at all the ancient old dweebs in the Senate! They are rich. They have more than enough money already to support their living family for life. But still they MUST get reelected. WHY? (That senile old goat from Alaska comes to mind.)

JDM @ 61

PS That’s Tom Ridge from Erie fucking Pa, who was running the “Department of Reich Security”.

Ah, not so nice to see you again. Why must you speak like this every time you comment?

LS @ 87

The “Majority” are strapped for money. They live check to check to maintain whatever they are maintaining. The “powers that be” frighten them into believing that any “programs” that could help other people, will cost them their cash flow in the form of taxes. The Majority would need to hang on to their meager cashflow, so they can eat, rather than risk losing cashflow; which they can’t afford to lose. The “powers that be”, who don’t have to worry about losing a little cashflow, actually get “rewarded” for towing the lie by not having to contribute according to their income bracket. Ultimately, no one wants to help anyone. It’s every man for themselves. The “powers that be” fear, because they too are brainwashed, that if they give up anything, they will immediately regress back into the cauldron of the majority…besides, they just don’t seem to care.

My sister has stated for years that most people are about three paychecks away from the street.

Shell @ 94

LS –

I say BS to that argument. Is what you said true? Yes, of course. But why are they so cowardly? It’s as if they are working at McDonald’s and can never get another job.

Look at all the ancient old dweebs in the Senate! They are rich. They have more than enough money already to support their living family for life. But still they MUST get reelected. WHY? (That senile old goat from Alaska comes to mind.)

Power and greed.

LS –

I agree. And no one else says it, but it IS a form of mental illness.

Shell @ 98

LS –

I agree. And no one else says it, but it IS a form of mental illness.

I’d say it is a human “vice”.

Without Eleanor I don’t think that FDR would have done as much as he did for progressive programs. She was his conscience. That is why I think it is important to know as much about the wives of the men running for office as the candidate running for office, or husband, if the candidate is a female, because if a marriage is a true partnership, the spouse can have a great impact on a presidency. That is why the Republicans hated Eleanor and Hillary, they knew they were influencing policy.

jim o’connor @ 88

Real reporters would get in the face of a guy like Murray and refuse to allow him to pontificate and give self serving statements. A famous newspaperman whose name escapes me said his job was to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.”

I F Stone, if memory serves.

In fact, this country is awash with mental illness. Just take the religious right — SO against gays, yet so many (most?) of them are closet cases.

Why don’t Americans start paying attention?

Phoenix Woman @ 90

Our Elite Media cuddle up to Murray for the same reason they spit on John Edwards: They are either The Man themselves, or desperately want to be.

They are also quite used to being supervised by, and obsequious to, The Man, in the form of editors and publishers. Their obeisance to men like Murray does them well in the TradMed structure — and ill-serves us as consumers of their journamilizm.

Marretta –

Oh, if only MRS. Edwards and MRS. Obama would run …..

Shell @ 104

Marretta –

Oh, if only MRS. Edwards and MRS. Obama would run …..

I love them both.

Shell @ 105

Marretta –

Oh, if only MRS. Edwards and MRS. Obama would run …..

there are a number of people who’d like to see Elizabeth Edwards run

TeddySanFran @ 104

Phoenix Woman @ 90

Our Elite Media cuddle up to Murray for the same reason they spit on John Edwards: They are either The Man themselves, or desperately want to be.

They are also quite used to being supervised by, and obsequious to, The Man, in the form of editors and publishers. Their obeisance to men like Murray does them well in the TradMed structure — and ill-serves us as consumers of their journamilizm.

Which is why so very many of us look to FDL and other sources for information and analysis.

FunnyDiva

TeddySanFran @ 103

jim o’connor @ 88

Real reporters would get in the face of a guy like Murray and refuse to allow him to pontificate and give self serving statements. A famous newspaperman whose name escapes me said his job was to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.”

I F Stone, if memory serves.

KO seems to have inherited that Robin Hood mantle…!!! *g*

Marretta @ 100

Without Eleanor I don’t think that FDR would have done as much as he did for progressive programs. She was his conscience. That is why I think it is important to know as much about the wives of the men running for office as the candidate running for office, or husband, if the candidate is a female, because if a marriage is a true partnership, the spouse can have a great impact on a presidency. That is why the Republicans hated Eleanor and Hillary, they knew they were influencing policy.

Let’s rate spouses:

Pickles

Hillary

Barbara

Nancy

Roslyn

Betty

Pat

Lady Bird

Jackie

Oh, I left out the mistresses (great old word).

Hey, I already voted for Hillary twice, by voting for Bill. This time I will probably vote for Michelle or Elizabeth by voting for their husbands. I’ll keep doing this until we get a female candidate who hasn’t been totally bought by the corporate overlords, which I am sad to say, Hillary has.

Let’s rate spouses

Well, all the GOPers are out. (Females are no better than males). Except for Betty Ford. She did good work with alcoholics.

Hillary, Roslyn, Lady Bird and Jackie? A toss-up.

Jonathan @ 111

Marretta @ 100

Without Eleanor I don’t think that FDR would have done as much as he did for progressive programs. She was his conscience. That is why I think it is important to know as much about the wives of the men running for office as the candidate running for office, or husband, if the candidate is a female, because if a marriage is a true partnership, the spouse can have a great impact on a presidency. That is why the Republicans hated Eleanor and Hillary, they knew they were influencing policy.

Let’s rate spouses:

Pickles

Hillary

Barbara

Nancy

Roslyn

Betty

Pat

Lady Bird

Jackie

Oh, I left out the mistresses (great old word).

Well, I for one put Babs at the bottom of the heap!!!

Jonathan @ 111

Marretta @ 100

Without Eleanor I don’t think that FDR would have done as much as he did for progressive programs. She was his conscience. That is why I think it is important to know as much about the wives of the men running for office as the candidate running for office, or husband, if the candidate is a female, because if a marriage is a true partnership, the spouse can have a great impact on a presidency. That is why the Republicans hated Eleanor and Hillary, they knew they were influencing policy.

Let’s rate spouses:

Pickles

Hillary

Barbara

Nancy

Roslyn

Betty

Pat

Lady Bird

Jackie

Oh, I left out the mistresses (great old word).

I admired Roslyn Carter the most of that crop… a true bedrock for Jimmy!!!

Marretta @ 112

Hey, I already voted for Hillary twice, by voting for Bill. This time I will probably vote for Michelle or Elizabeth by voting for their husbands. I’ll keep doing this until we get a female candidate who hasn’t been totally bought by the corporate overlords, which I am sad to say, Hillary has.

Marretta,

I have no preference for M or F.

In Viet Nam, I learned women can kill as good as men.

Jonathan @ 110.
Like, let’s not. The idea of rating First Ladies is just so icky on so many levels. There have to be other available laughs around today, equally cheap.
FunnyDiva

LS @ 89

The “Majority” are strapped for money. They live check to check to maintain whatever they are maintaining. The “powers that be” frighten them into believing that any “programs” that could help other people, will cost them their cash flow in the form of taxes. The Majority would need to hang on to their meager cashflow, so they can eat, rather than risk losing cashflow; which they can’t afford to lose. The “powers that be”, who don’t have to worry about losing a little cashflow, actually get “rewarded” for towing the lie by not having to contribute according to their income bracket. Ultimately, no one wants to help anyone. It’s every man for themselves. The “powers that be” fear, because they too are brainwashed, that if they give up anything, they will immediately regress back into the cauldron of the majority…besides, they just don’t seem to care.

Ding!

New thread upstairs.

Funnydiva2002 @ 117

Jonathan @ 110.
Like, let’s not. The idea of rating First Ladies is just so icky on so many levels. There have to be other available laughs around today, equally cheap.
FunnyDiva

I agree. But if we’re going to vote for presidential candidates based on their spouses, let’s have an honest discussion about the spouses.

Jonathan @ 120

Funnydiva2002 @ 117

Jonathan @ 110.
Like, let’s not. The idea of rating First Ladies is just so icky on so many levels. There have to be other available laughs around today, equally cheap.
FunnyDiva

I agree. But if we’re going to vote for presidential candidates based on their spouses, let’s have an honest discussion about the spouses.

But, who says “we” are going to vote for pres candies based on spousal units?! I’m certainly not. And opening an honest discussion is different than “hey! I know what let’s do, let’s rate First Ladies.”
Besides which, NONE of the ones on your list have any bearing on the only pres election that matters just now–2008.

FunnyD.

Drive by:

1) Betty
2) Marilyn
3) Mamie
4) Mary Todd
5) Jackie
6) Roslyn, Pat…..

……

8723) Condi

OT File under how it gets done. In the NYT,
the article White House to Offer Iraq Plan of Gradual Cuts” By STEVEN LEE MYERS and THOM SHANKER

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..itary.html

If you read this casually you might think it was reasonable and well written. But like most NYT articles on Iraq, it is carrying the Administration’s water.

First, it mentions the Petraeus report without talking about how the White House tried and is trying to game it. The WH still intends to write it and Petraeus could still well testify (after the Administration’s efforts to limit his exposure before the Congress) before the report is released, meaning he won’t be able to comment on it in any meaningful way.

Second, it puts out the WH case, then the military/Petraeus’ case. Only then does it give one quick negative by Harry Reid, and closes with a longer supportive quote by Tony Snow. Sound fair and balanced to you?

Third, in the course of the piece, it regurgitates WH and military points uncritically and with no factchecking. It repeats the WH case that sectarian violence is down although this is both disputed and has not been independently verified. It also mentions that accomplishments were satisfactory on 9 of 18 benchmarks without emphasizing that the WH wrote that report too and that the 9 points referred to lacked any real substance.

In other words, the NYT the gray lady and war whore is at it again. It seems like the days when the paper hired reporters to report and editors to edit are long gone.

Well, JFK and FDR both were serial adulterers, but they both took political advice from their spouses. A lot of people have speculated that Jackie had a much bigger hand in the writing of Profiles In Courage than anyone let on at the time. Eleanor was always nagging FDR about the poor and the blacks, women and children. That sure beats having a juvenile delinquent and a Disney programmed wife-bot in the white house. That’s what got us where we are now.

I know it was Dubya who coined the phrase “You are either with us or against us,” after 9-11, but “We the People” should take that phrase and turn it on our elected officials. Getting rid of the old goats in Congress who have forgotten why they are there and putting someone in the oval office with a conscience would be a terrific start.

Someone has got to kick all the Bush appointed foxes out of the hen houses. Too few folks connect the dots to understand that falling bridges, collapsing mines, and the deterioration of our national infrastructure is all coming form the same source, political and corporate greed.

“But, who says “we” are going to vote for pres candies based on spousal units?! I’m certainly not. And opening an honest discussion is different than “hey! I know what let’s do, let’s rate First Ladies.”
Besides which, NONE of the ones on your list have any bearing on the only pres election that matters just now–2008.”
***************

I disagree. One of the candidates today is Hillary Clinton and no one can say her spouse doesn’t have something to do with what SHE is today — and HE will continue to sway her if she is elected president. (Remember “Twofer” in the 1992 election?)

Others have mentioned Eleanor’s “nudging” FDR. Like it or not, SOME wives have a lot to do with the president.

AZ Matt @ 18

MATEWAN (1987)

by John Sayles
Detailing what came to be known as the “Matewan Massacre” in the midst of the bloody and contentious nine-year unionization Coal Wars (1912-1921).

That is one hell of a movie.

Shell @ 125

“But, who says “we” are going to vote for pres candies based on spousal units?! I’m certainly not. And opening an honest discussion is different than “hey! I know what let’s do, let’s rate First Ladies.”
Besides which, NONE of the ones on your list have any bearing on the only pres election that matters just now–2008.”
***************

I disagree. One of the candidates today is Hillary Clinton and no one can say her spouse doesn’t have something to do with what SHE is today — and HE will continue to sway her if she is elected president. (Remember “Twofer” in the 1992 election?)

Others have mentioned Eleanor’s “nudging” FDR. Like it or not, SOME wives have a lot to do with the president.

Uhm….do you see Big Dog Bill Clinton on Jonathan’s list? Hmmmmm?

Is there any other ‘08 hopeful pres candie spouse on that list? Hmmmmmm?

Discuss the ‘08 hopefuls’ spouses, by all means. Don’t pretend that the “Rate the First Ladies” game is the same thing.

Jeebus. What is WITH the reading comprehension here today?

FunnyD

Speaking about reading comprehensively …. UHM

NO, there isn’t another “08 hopeful pres candie” spouse on that list.

Is there another “08 hopeful pres candie” spouse who was a former president? UHM?

Trust me — if ANY of the other candidates had spouses who used to be US presidents, I would say the same thing.

You might wish to look at your own READING COMPREHENSION.

Jonathan @ 26

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

Eisenhower recognized the importance of interstate highway system as well as some prescient thoughts about unnecessary war.
Truman made some excellent decisions regarding veterans and working people.
Good question for (pardon me for saying) Thom Hatmann on AirAmerica, who has written books on this very thing.

OK, I’m late for the party. I’ve been out meeting my congress critters. But this thread needs a sound track, and I recommend

Artist/Band: Patty Loveless
Lyrics for Song: You’ll Never Leave Harlan Alive
Lyrics for Album: Mountain Soul

(Darrel Scott)

In the deep dark hills of eastern Kentucky
That’s the place where I traced my bloodline
And it’s there I read on a hillside gravestone
“You’ll never leave Harlan alive”

Oh my grandfather’s dad crossed the Cumberland Mountains
Where he took a pretty girl to be his bride
Said “Won’t you walk with me out the mouth of this holler
Or we’ll never leave Harlan alive”

Where the sun comes up about ten in the mornin’
And the sun goes down about three in the day
And you’ll fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you’re drinkin’
And you spend your life just thinkin’ of how to get away

No one ever knew there was coal in them mountains
Till a man from the northeast arrived
Waving hundred dollar bills
Said “I’ll pay you for your minerals”
But he never left Harlan alive

Grandma sold out cheap and they moved out west of Pikeville
To a farm where Big Richaldn River winds
And I bet they danced them a jig
And they laughted and sang a new song
“Who said we’d never leave Harlan alive”

But the times got hard and tobacco wasn’t selling
And old grandad knew what he’d do to survive
He went and dug for Harlan coal
And sent the money back to grandma
But he never left Harlan alive

Where the sun comes up about ten in the mornin’
And the sun goes down about three in the day
And you’ll fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you’re drinkin’
And you spend your life just thinkin’ of how to get away

You’ll never leave Harlan alive

Here’s an excellent Youtube version with a soundtrack of this song by Brad Paisley, and a video album of the Houston family of S.E. Kentucky that captures the spirit of the song.

And yes, AZMatt @18 and Margot @126, Matewan is one heck of a good movie. Right about now would be a good time to replay it.

Bob in HI

AZ Matt @ 18

MATEWAN (1987)

by John Sayles
Detailing what came to be known as the “Matewan Massacre” in the midst of the bloody and contentious nine-year unionization Coal Wars (1912-1921).

Harlan County, USA is terrific. Matawan IS IT!

Jonathan @ 26

Will someone please name the last honest and competent president who did lasting good things for the American people.

Eisenhower

for a slightly less-dark vision
of growing up in, and getting out
of, coal mining as a career, and
out of a coal mining town, as a
teenager — rent “october sky“.

laura dern plays a stellar role
model — and most of the miners,
as well as their lives — ring
very, very true.

it is based on a true story — a
kid who becomes an apollo-era
n.a.s.a. engineeer. . . i recommend.

p e a c e

ps: i’ve added a color-photo-schematic
to mine, of what the configuration of
the crandall canyon coal mine — generally,
would look like — in cut-a-way view. . .

it appears at the bottom of that post.

[it may be helpful in understanding what
the msha folks and murray are describing,
in terms of bore holes, distances, drifts,
etc. . . but it is not to scale, and it
is not of the actual mine, of course.]

there is no way to directly link to it, here.

that is all.