[Please be polite and stay on topic -- any off-topic conversations should be taken to the prior thread. With that, please help give a big FDL welcome to Steven Porter. -- CHS]
If you’ve been a Blue America regular you probably recall our 2006 candidate for Congress in northwest Pennsylvania, Dr. Steven Porter. He ran a great race against rubbery rubber stamp Republican Phil English, holding English to 54% of the vote, drawing over 80,000 votes for himself and all with no help whatsoever from the Inside the Beltway Democratic Establishment which viewed him as too grassroots, too anti-war and too independent.
One thing was sure: Steve Porter was never going to be a Rahm Emanuel type candidate or congressman. He never stopped talking about taking legal bribes out of the electoral system, not exactly a message Emanuel or Steny Hoyer wants Democrats to talk seriously about. Blue America embraced him with gusto and 594 of us donated $5,630 to his campaign– as well as a song and two videos.
You might want to go back and check Steve’s original session with us at Firedoglake as well as a followup he did with us in January.
A few months ago I was saddened to get a call from Steve telling me he had decided not to run again. He had good news however; he wanted to introduce me to a local Democratic councilman, Kyle Foust, who would be opposing English. He asked me to speak with Foust on the phone. I did– and wasn’t impressed.
If I was expecting someone as brilliant and resolute and courageous as Dr. Porter, I had set myself up for a let down. Here was just some hack politician, a Democratic rubber stamp wanna-be with no clear ideas about why he was running, about what was important in the public arena or about how to fix any of the problems he heard about (like Iraq). He didn’t have too many firm opinions but when it came to campaign finance reform he did: he’s against it.
I later told Steve that I wished Foust luck in defeating English but that we both realized on the phone that he was not a Blue America prospect. I may have missed it with Chris Carney but I can smell a Blue Dog in the making a mile away now. And so can Steve.
He went back and asked Foust some probing questions, thought it over and decided to jump back in the race. But not as a Democrat. He reregistered as an unaffiliated independent and that’s how he’ll appear on the ballot in 2008. A firm believer in accountability, Steve is a hawk on impeaching Bush and Cheney. He told me that:
“From the moment Pelosi took impeachment off the table, I knew there was no difference between the parties and that the Democrats would only posture and feign opposition which they knew would never amount to anything. In the end they gave George Bush absolutely everything he’s asked for… [It] is a calculated strategy to win greater gains in 2008… using the lives of our kids in Iraq– and the lives of innocent Iraqi civilians– for political purposes.”
Steve isn’t running for Congress as part of a career move. He is serious about the issues– more serious than almost anyone I have ever talked to. When he says he wants to end the occupation of Iraq now, he means “end” and he means “now” and he means them in plain unnuanced English– English even George Bush and Rahm Emanuel can understand. Thursday he spent the day doing interviews at newspapers and television stations across PA-03 explaining why he is running again and why he has decided to eschew the baggage of the two Inside the Beltway political establishments. His website goes into this very thoroughly.
This morning I was on the phone with Howard Shanker, the grassroots progressive running for Congress against Rick Renzi in Arizona. He told me that the party leaders didn’t ask him how he felt about issues or positions; “All they care about, is how much money you can raise.”
Funny, I hear that from almost all of our candidates. It has Steve pretty worked up too.
“We flit from Republican to Democrat, Democrat to Republican and they’re both owned by the Special Interests. The only thing that matters [to the 2 established parties] is raising money and by the time enough money is raised for a campaign, all the candidates are in the pockets of the big contributors… If just a handful of independent voices could somehow galvanize the progressive public nationally so that they could win, it would shake the 2 major parties to their roots and they might begin to think that its time to serve the people instead of the special interests.”
Steve is joining us here this afternoon to explain how he expects to beat Phil English and answer any questions we have. He told me his goal in this campaign is to “reach people who believe America’s future is not with the Nancy Pelosis and George Bushs but with independent statesmen like Paul Wellstone and Bernie Sanders.” I think he’s come to the right place.
Please join me in contributing to his campaign at Blue America. First 10 donations of $30.00 or more get an Impeach Cheney cap– because Steve Porter is one progressive that no one can tell impeachment is off any tables.
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Aha!
Zed?
Howie!
Ooooh! Yay!
I’ll tell downstairs…if there’s anyone there.
Lotsa lurking, little commenting just now.
Then I’ll read the post, I promise!
FunnyDiva.
I’m a member of PA’s #3 and would like to welcome future Congressman Porter. My heart sunk as I read the election returns early in the morning on Nov. 8. Let’s have one of those petitions, OK?
Good morning! An old contributor of Dr. Porter’s just came onto the site and donated several thousand dollars spread out among all our candidates– in case anyone noticed the big jump up a few minutes ago. Anyone who wants an “Impeach Cheney” cap, please donate at least $30 to Steve Porter’s campaign.
Hello and thank you for welcoming me back to FDL. I will get to your comments right now and look forward to our chat.
Steve
Welcome Dr. Porter! It is an honor to have you here with us.
Hi Howie…
Howie!
Welcome, Dr. Porter. Glad to hear about you and your campaign. Lord knows, we need more candidates like you!
FunnyDiva
Great to have you back, Dr. Porter! As an independent candidate, do you expect that a significant number of Republican voters will choose you over English? Are you counting on independents? Disgruntled Democrats? What kind of an electoral coalition can you put together to win this seat? How many of those 80,000 voters who went for you last time will vote for you as an independent?
I find this so exciting. I’ve long thought we needed more third party candidates, just not the ego stroking spoilers who think the way to start is the presidency. Welcome Steven!
howieklein @ 5
Whoah! Great news.
GO, BLUE AMERICA!
GO BLUE, AMERICA!
FunnyDiva
Hello, Dr. Porter,
I donated to your campaign several times in 2006, and I’m doing so again today.
In general, I am in support of strengthening the Democratic party as the only realistic alternative to an increaslingly fascist Republican party.
In your case, I see no downside to supporting your campaign against Foust and English. I’m tired of hanging my head in shame when faced with the performance of my Democratic Congress.
Good Luck Mr. Porter,
For clarity, is Foust still going to run as the Democrat? If so, will there be a primary race first? Are there any other Democrats running or does Foust have the credentials to satisfy the DINO’s?
Dr. Porter – I’ve driven through your district many many times on the way to taking my girls to college in Ohio and during the winter, that takes some real “snow driving skills.” What do you see as District 3’s biggest challenges?
Dr Porter,
If elected, would you caucus with the Dems or would you abstain from a caucus. If you abstained, how would you deal with getting seat assignments?
Welcome, Dr. Porter! Good luck with your campaign!
I’m curious as to why you turned down the chance to run again as a Democrat. Isn’t it more difficult to run as an independent?
Bob in HI
hackworth @ 14
Right now there are three Democrats competing for who will be the most mainstream and least “offensive” to a DLC vision of where the Democratic Party should be, Foust being the one with the most traction.
And then there’s Steve Porter, who just doesn’t want the baggage attached to either of the Inside the Beltway party establishments. Let’s hope he starts a trend. Imagine two real statesmen in Congress like Bernie Sanders!
howieklein @ 18
I have a dream!
I am against the war in Iraq, however I am very concerned that the people in Bagdad have only about 2 hours of electricity per day, do you plans include helping to fix the system we destroyed with Shock and Awe.
howieklein @ 18
Oooh, indeed. A very happy image.
Thanks for the info Howie.
Go, Blue America!
Go Blue, America!
FunnyDiva
Dr. Porter,
I’m a lifelong Democrat but I respect you as a person of integrity. I have been asking for and encouraging the impeachment of Cheney and Bush for many months now. I think that it is the only way in which we can salvage the ideals and principles that this country was founded upon. I think there is no other way. I believe we are simply whistling past the graveyard where the Constitution is being buried if we pretend otherwise.
I just contributed $100 to your campaign through Act Blue. I am sorely disappointed in my party. If you can get elected perhaps that will be part of a wakeup call that will give the Democratic Party the backbone that it has sorely been lacking. Maybe the only way that things can change is if we elect, one by one, more people like you until the handwriting on the wall cannot be ignored any more.
Welcome back to the lake, Dr. Porter! We always have good candidates here on Saturdays, but rarely one of your OUTSTANDING character and spirit!
Thank you for your courage and patriotism and for running again!
Welcome back to FDL, Dr. Porter.
How do you answer people who say that there are more important priorities than impeachment for the political opposition, like ending our involvement in Iraq, helping out New Orleans, etc.?
I’m on the phone with Dr. Porter now and his computer just crashed. He’s trying to re-boot
OK, he’s back online
12,000 Doctors have left Iraq and 2,000 have been killed by the insurgents, any idea how we can get them medical care they need?
Explorer keeps crashing his computer. What a bummer. He’s going to send me the answers to the questions and I’ll copy and paste and send them from this screen name. I think what I’ll do is put all his comments in bold so people will know when they’re reading Steve and not Howie. Grrrrr… I wonder if Lieberman or Susan Collins has sabotaged him! (J/k)
howieklein @ 10
I expect votes from anti-English Republicans, disaffected Democrats, independents, and people who have not voted in the past but will vote in 2008 because they have a real alternative to the politics-as-usual candidates.
Steve
howieklein @ 28
Or microsoft! He needs to move over to the light and away from the darkside and get a mac! (or at least download firefox or something) (back to lurking now)
Funnydiva2002 @ 12
Many thanks. It will only be with individuals like you that we will break the special-interest strangle-hold on Washington.
Steve
howieklein @ 28
Try Firefox. If you think you’ll miss the crashing, you can still keep Internet Explorer around for old times’ sake.
Dr. Porter,
Why is it the righteous on the left refuse to be politic and actually make a difference? You’re a guy who could win, but you’d rather split the non-Republican vote with a Democratic candidate and remain above it all.
There’s a lot of give and take, and sometimes some rolling around in the mud demanded by democracy. That’s the system. Do you want to participate in the process meaningfully or ego trip?
If you want to build an independent party rather than work with others to take over the Democratic Party I think the rest of us should make good use of our time in the present and check back with you in twenty years to see how you’re doing.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 13
Thank you so much. It is the Republican and Democratic parties which have spoiled our democracy by turning into money-machines in the service of the special interests which feed them. And the cry “spoiler” is most often heard from the shills who front for those interests. Thank you for your support.
Steve
IF LIEberman of Collins had the technical expertise to do so on their staff I’d eat my IMPEACH CHENEY Cap! (I meant having someone who could crash Dr. Porter’s machine)
Seriously, if you have the funds, I highly recommend donating at least $30 bucks to Dr. Porter today to get one.
I get the best reactions when I wear mine (and I wear mine EVERYWHERE).
hackworth @ 14
Hi. Foust is running in a 3-way primary. Foust-Tom Myers-Mike Waltner. Myers is a lawyer. Waltner is a lay preacher. One of them will be the Democratic nominee, and it will be a 3-way general election between that nominee, English, and myself.
Steve
I’ll be interested to see what the dems will do after Patreas reports in mid-September. (Not that he will be giving anything but a WH report, of course…) If they continue funding this invasion, I think a lot of us will be changing party affiliation to Independent.
Toby Wollin @ 15
The biggest issues in PA-03 are Iraq, health care, its economy, social security, and the environment. The economy of the area has been in decline for well over a decade, and the lack of any leadership and vision has kept it poor. There are answers for the area, but they will take visionary leaders. They include a Great Lakes Wind Farm for energy, ethanol plants to process the region’s great corn crops, high-speed rail to connect Buffalo with Cleveland and Pittsburgh more efficiently, and a commitment on the part of the Defense Dept. to use our steel and tool industries in the fulfilling of contracts rather than outsourcing those jobs.
Steve
Dr. Porter,
Greetings and best wishes from CT-05.
I’ve just voted for you with a $30 contribution (10% tip).
Give ‘em hell.
My oral surgeon charges over $1,500 per hour is there any hope for medical costs to come down?
Loo Hoo. @ 37
I think you’re correct but I just had a letter from a blogger who I really respect who is furious that we’re doing this fundraiser for Dr. Porter via Act Blue and is demanding Act Blue kick him off their page. I expected this– although not from this particular guy.
Loo Hoo. @ 37
I predict they’ll do what they’ve been doing – folding whenever a little pressure is applied.
steve – i think you are absolutely correct (at least with regards to the leadership)… although it took me longer than you to figure it out. what a disappointment (and btw, glenn greenwald agrees).
can’t tell you how much i appreciate your willingness to tell it like you see it. way too rare a quality these days.
many thanks for running again… and thanks also to howie, without whom i wouldn’t know about your campaign.
dakine01 @ 16
Great question. I would work with all parties in the spirit of cordiality and national as well as regional interest, and would welcome a seat from whatever party was in a leadership capacity. Of course, my roots are much more on the Democratic side than the Republican side, and I would more than likely be voting their way on major issues. It is also likely that as an independent, I might be in a position to help with non-partisan negotiations or in areas where partisan politicians might be suspect.
The bottom line for this question is that I would be free to work constructively with all parties for the love of my country and the benefit of my constituents and not be tied to any dogma which was associated with party politics.
Steve
Dr Porter – I can certainly understand and support your move out of the Democratic party. The lack of movement on impeachment is a sad sign of complicity.
I am however concerned about your plan for Iraq which involves maintaining troops there and requiring the division of the country into religious regions. I am concerned about any plans that are imposed from outside Iraq – particularly by us – and forced on the Iraqi people. Could you explain your thinking on this in more detail.
Dr. Porter looks good. The big problem here is that a certain number of voters will view this candidacy as a spoiler without a chance and will vote for the “Democrat” because they are afraid of the “Republican” winning. One way of dealing with this is electoral reform, such as having a second choice vote or requiring 50%+ of votes cast for a win. But without such reform, this is likely to split the rational vote and lead to the worst result. And, admit it, the “Democratic” party will unite with the “Republicans” to thwart such reform. The “Democratic” Party leadership would much rather lose and keep losing than have an open electoral system.
I do not believe that an unsuccessful third party campaign will cause improvement in the “Democratic” Party. I think it is clear that the “Democrats” believe in their principles far more than winning and their principles are the same as those of the “Republicans”. I still think Gore would have won a clear victory if he had run against Bush instead of Nader and I believe that the real leadership of the “Democratic” Party secretly view the 2000 election as a success (still no opposition party, fundraising got easier, many people so scared of Bush that they unquestioningly follow DLC types).
What to do? I don’t know but I have one idea. Dr. Porter should run in the “Democratic” primary explicitly stating that Kyle Foust is not satisfactory, explain why and commit to running in November. I don’t think he would lose anything by doing this compared to running as a pure third party candidate. It would allow him to publicize to “Democratic” voters that he would be a better candidate than Foust and possibly win the primary, which would be a great help in being elected.
Have a “Democratic” congressman who explicitly opposes “Democratic” Party leadership? Sounds like a good thing to me. This would be an aid in starting a third party (or, actually, a first party as what we have now are fake parties) since splitting off bits of the “Democrats” would be necessary in doing that. We already have third parties that have turned their backs on the sham. We need someone to replace the sham and to have that, MOST current “Democrats” will be needed. Not the “leadership”, though. And if this sort of thing succeeds, it might even be possible to take over the “Democrats”. But I wouldn’t count on that.
Also, with 3 “mainstream” “Democrats” in the primary, an explicit anti party leadership candidate would have a good chance of winning, I would think.
howieklein @ 41
Speaking personally, I’m supporting progressives, not Democrats. I want the best people possible in government, and if the Democratic Party isn’t willing to nominate them, it won’t get my vote, nor my contributions. If my only choice is between the type of milqtoast Democrats who aren’t doing a damn thing about the Bush Administration’s lawlessness and Iraq and Republicans, then I might as well stay home.
Either way, my country and I are screwed.
dakine01 @ 30
IMO, correct as to a Mac, correct as to Firefox.
howieklein @ 41
Did we ever say we were Dem only? I don’t recall that. As a general strategy, that’s good, but there can certainly be some flexibility here, IMO. We are not Kos.
Bob Schacht @ 17
I left the Democratic Party because I cannot be a part of its do-nothing policy with respect to Iraq and because it took impeachment off the table. By doing the later, it insured a continuation of the war, and I simply could not go along with that.
I must tell you in all honesty, that my wife, Rita, left the party long before I did, and we spent many an hour arguing whether or not to try to change the party from within or to become independent. I tried as hard as I could to do the former, but in the end, had to admit that she was right, and that only through independence could an alternative voice be heard.
It will neither be harder or easier to run as an independent. The process is the same, and the organization I had built from 2004 was committed to me as a person rather than as a party member. I think you can get a sense for that from some of the comments here today. But harder or easier, it was the morally right thing to do, and that is what drove my decision.
Steve
Any idea why Bush would call Social Security a crisis, but not Medicare which has an unfunded liability of 3x larger, he did not mention at all.
howieklein @ 18
Thank you for the comment and for linking me with Bernie Sanders.
There are three Democrats in their primary: Kyle Foust, Tom Myers, and Mike Waltner. The winner will oppose English and me in the general election.
Steve
howieklein @ 41
Interesting. I don’t even have a blog (it’s my collection of geocities pages), but I will say I have done my share of contributing to Act Blue in 06 and 08. So I am not going to apologize to anyone for supporting Dr. Porter.
I can think for myself, Mr. Respected Blogger. And if you don’t want me on your side, you are making a mistake.
Howie and Dr. Porter,
Here in Alaska’s sole congressional district, where Diane Benson sorely wounded Don Young last November, her closeness to victory brought out Jake Metcalfe, now former state Director of the Alaska Democratic Party. Jake filed for the seat the first week of August – Diane filed back in the Spring – so now we have two candidates.
I set up an ActBlue page for Diane, but apparently, the only candidate account ActBlue will show for that seat is AK-01 Democratic Nominee Fund. Does that happen wherever there is a district where two or more Dems have filed for a house seat?
How do ActBlue and BlueAmerica deal with a situation like that when one Dem candidate is solidly progressive and the other isn’t?
There is nothing worse than a fake democrat — except maybe a real republican — frankly I can’t tell the difference. The problem is that the Phony Joe Model of non-partisanship is ruining the “independent” label.
What I mean to say is that beating bad democrats in the primary race is such a good tonic as to restore vitality to the term “Democrat”.
While I may harbor disdain for the DINO dogs in the pack, it seems better to heal from the inside out. Lance the boil of status-quo lazycrats and restore vigor to the party. That’s why I like the whole idea of the Blue America quest. It is a momentum builder that pays off with stronger candidates like yourself as well as a revitalized party.
I think being an independent is great if you can be independent, but it is difficult to see the differentiation in terms that people can identify with — unless they are completely disaffected by politics in general.
Even so, I hope you can help our country heal.
Conrad, above, said it best:
howieklein @ 41
please don’t back down on this howie. if the dccc wants my support they have to earn it. i’m tired of having my support taken for granted…
You you be in favor of deleting other government programs, to save Social Security and Medicare?
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
e-mail me directly and I’ll help you get this fixed. It’s an easy one
selise @ 56
Not a chance; don’t worry. And judging by the rate of contributions, I am getting the idea that our Blue America community likes Dr. Porter’s independent, values-based run.
Thank you for the Iraq question. Before I answer, just a little housekeeping data….
I am having trouble responding to you directly on FDL, so I am emailing my responses to Howie Klein who is then posting them on FDL for you…Now to Iraq.
We have made a mess of Iraq and the fixes for me will have nothing to do with violence on the party of the US.
We need to tell the Iraqi “government” to establish 3 autonomous zones: one for the Kurds, one for the Shiites, and one for the Sunnis, with Baghdad as perhaps a fourth zone divided along the lines of Berlin after WW II.
Then we need to tell them to share the Iraqi oil revenues equitably between all the zones.
We need to remove our troops from all offensive activities immediately while the zones are being established, giving only defensive security to all concerned.
This will settle the inter-tribal conflict of Mesopotamia which has been going on for centuries–just as a similar arrangement did in Yugoslavia after the fall of Tito. When each of the Iraqi peoples have an autonomous stake in their territory, they will be the best defenders of that territory against any civil or external aggression–including Al Qaeda.
Next, we must encourage the international rebuilding of Iraq by bid taken by the Iraqi zones themselves, not by bequeathal to Halliburton or the big four oil companies (Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron).
Finally, we need to re-invigorate our failed alliances so that the battle against global terrorism is borne equitably, not virtually by the US alone. And then the wealthy nations of the world must unite to upgrade the poverty and despair of the poorer nations which fuel the rise of terrorism.
Steve
cujo at 47 says-”Speaking personally, I’m supporting progressives, not Democrats. I want the best people possible in government, and if the Democratic Party isn’t willing to nominate them, it won’t get my vote, nor my contributions. If my only choice is between the type of milqtoast Democrats who aren’t doing a damn thing about the Bush Administration’s lawlessness and Iraq and Republicans, then I might as well stay home.
Either way, my country and I are screwed.”
yeah, hey howie, i thought act blue/blue america was for progressive candidates…….doesn’t that mean anyone?
C Conrad @46,
I think you’ve identified the problem with Dr. Porter’s independent candidacy. I tried to make the same point @33 but I don’t think the good Doctor wants to address it.
dmac @ 61
Yes, exactly! That’s why we have Dr. Porter with us today and that’s why we’re urging everyone to donate to his campaign.
fahrender @ 22
God Bless You!
Not for your contribution alone, but much more for your comment about impeachment and the democracy.
You are as right as can be. I wish I could say to Ms. Pelosi that impeachment IS the nation’s business, and should be undertaken no matter what you think the final votes would be. Letting those in power get away with breaking the law has, in my 64 years, been the single most destructive force to our democracy because it says that there is a double standard between the governed and those who govern them. Ford’s pardon of Nixon, the pardon of Oliver North, the lies about the Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, Iran-contra, the election of 2000, the lies about WMD in Iraq–they have all abrogated our democracy, and we need caring statesmen to turn that around. We need it soon.
Thank you so much.
Steve
I am very concerned about the National Debt almost $9 trillion or $30,000 per person in the US. Bush spends like a drunken sailor, is there some way to fix this?
CMike @ 62
You may not have noticed by Steve is going down the questions and comments in order they were received. He just answered #22. Please be patient and he will get to your question in turn.
Cujo359 @ 24
I think I just said it in my answer to #22, but let me repeat. UPHOLDING OUR CONSTITUTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT BUSINESS WE HAVE. Without the rule of law, nothing in a democracy is possible except its destruction.
Steve
Siun @ 45
i’d like to second siun’s concerns here. the future direction iraq takes ought to be up to iraqis to figure out / decide. we have done more than enough harm already and have no right to continue to impose our will on the people of iraq. in addition to being morally wrong, there is an additional problem – any thing imposed from outside iraq will be seen as illegitimate by iraqis, undermining the possibility for a better outcome.
howieklein @ 63
Just to be clear, I’ve contributed to Dr. Porter’s campaign via ActBlue. I’m putting my money where my (virtual) mouth is.
Sandman @ 27
I am afraid the US is not going to do much in this area. I would beseech the Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, and the UN to assist. But more than that, I would just get the hell out of there so that the war ends.
Steve
howieklein @ 64
I wish I could say to Ms. Pelosi that impeachment IS the nation’s business, and should be undertaken no matter what you think the final votes would be. Letting those in power get away with breaking the law has, in my 64 years, been the single most destructive force to our democracy because it says that there is a double standard between the governed and those who govern them. Ford’s pardon of Nixon, the pardon of Oliver North, the lies about the Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, Iran-contra, the election of 2000, the lies about WMD in Iraq–they have all abrogated our democracy, and we need caring statesmen to turn that around. We need it soon.
Thank you so much.
Steve
Impeachment is not an “option”. It’s their duty. It’s not political…it’s about the Constitution and the law.
Thank you, Steve.
howieklein @ 67
Excellent response. I’ll probably be quoting you at some point.
Dr. Porter,
How has the local media responded to your change in party affiliation? Are you getting any press?
Thanks for your answer Dr Porter. I certainly support your run as an independent … but I can’t agree with your position supporting the division of Iraq (or any approach to Iraq which is imposed from the outside). I think we have to restore autonomy to the Iraqi people and let them make their own choice – and I think support for keeping US forces in Iraq – even for a short time – as a defensive force misreads the situation and the role our forces are playing.
Good luck – it’s hard to move outside the party and takes a lot of courage.
Dr. Porter,
The plan for a 3-zone Iraq sounds a lot like the plan espoused by Biden.
The main criticism of such a plan is that actual Iraqi society is more complex than that, for example, 40-60% of families are blended marriages, i.e. Shia-Sunni.
Most of the areas are blended, much like the “purple counties” in our nation.
That being said, how would a 3-zone plan work?
Isn’t the 3-zone plan more of a snapshot of the current phase of the US’s understanding of their culture, as opposed to a truly workable plan?
Where would the blended families reside?
Wouldn’t a plan that builds on the non-radicalized and completely integrated elements of their society be a more pragmatic and grounded approach?
Wow. Thank you for being here: you sure are hitting all our marks and making it look easy! Why aren’t these strong and sensible positions attractive to all politicians? Well, I think Howie hit it in his post, it’s about the money and the money-machine. Pretty disappointing that eclipses the issues now. We sure are learning a lot of hard hard lessons this month about what is really going on in Washington.
Dr. Steve, you really seem to be thinking clearly ~ especially about Iraq, your plan is comprehensive and informed, and workable. We see in Washington that the D caucus listens to threats about terror from liars … and our rights are taken away. What is the ‘antidote’ to this nonsense? Do you see a remedy? A response to keep this propaganda from driving everything?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Well, Act Blue just contacted me to tell me they have taken Dr. Porter off their site. They will no longer accept donations for him. They do still accept contributions for Bernie Sanders.
howieklein @ 66
And in the meantime, Dr. Porter’s #50 is informative, if your goal is truly information and not a public spat.
FunnyDiva
howie @ #58,
done. Is Dr. Porter on-line yet?
This is just an observation, and, hopefully, a recommendation on how to proceed in the future with regard to fundraising.
Last year, despite being out of work for three years, I busted loose $150 between twenty-five or so ActBlue candidates. It wasn’t much, but it was the best I could do at the time.
A few months later, I got a letter over your signature, in somewhat strident language, saying that I simply had to contribute $200 to make your 2008 campaign a reality, because of the urgency of defeating the incumbent.
I’m nowhere near your district, and if I had an extra two hundred bucks for donations to one candidate, I’d damned sure put them first into getting rid of the brain-dead wacko rep in my district.
Now, I understand the way this works–that’s okay. But, I think, in order for you not to put off contributors in the future, you need to parse your contributor database a bit more carefully–out-of-state small contributors are sympathetic to your aims, but they aren’t your core supporters. Hardball language to extract large contributions from them won’t succeed, and may turn people off. You may lose contributions by doing so, rather than gain by those tactics.
Sure, send letters asking for support, but, for out-of-state small contributors, create a letter saying anything from good wishes to a few dollars is appreciated, and we’re all in this together.
If I were less savvy about the way fundraising is automated today, I might have been offended by that $200 or the sky is falling letter. Be more discriminating in how you work that donation database and you’ll do better next year.
Cheers.
Yes, it is a problem but I want make clear that that doesn’t mean I think he shouldn’t do it. I’m pointing to the problem because dealing with the problem will make victory more likely.
howieklein @ 59
that great news howie – thank you!
and could you please tell me that the reason i no longer see steven porter on the blue america page (i saw it just a few minutes ago when i donated) is because i’m blind (and not because it was pulled by actblue)?
dr. porter at 60 says, in part-” We need to tell the Iraqi “government” to establish 3 autonomous zones: one for the Kurds, one for the Shiites, and one for the Sunnis, with Baghdad as perhaps a fourth zone divided along the lines of Berlin after WW II.
Then we need to tell them to share the Iraqi oil revenues equitably between all the zones.
We need to remove our troops from all offensive activities immediately while the zones are being established, giving only defensive security to all concerned.
This will settle the inter-tribal conflict of Mesopotamia which has been going on for centuries–just as a similar arrangement did in Yugoslavia after the fall of Tito. When each of the Iraqi peoples have an autonomous stake in their territory, they will be the best defenders of that territory against any civil or external aggression–including Al Qaeda.”
welcome dr. porter, i respectfully disagree, except for the kurds wanting their own area/country, i do not agree, many shiites and sunnis are intermingled, families and communities…how would that pan out?????……..unlike yugoslavia, where they were largely segregated already………..it is NOT the same as yugoslavia.
Is that what you think it’s finally going to come down to? How tragic is that, that this is our best case scenario for peace in the region, that people wall themselves off from each other in sectarian zones.
Sometimes it just overwhelms me what our country has done to the Iraqis.
How in the world are we ever going to be able to make reparations? Will the people responsible ever be brought to justice?
howieklein @ 67
I agree– you’ve got your priorities righ!
Bob in HI
selise @ 68
I’m not sure if I understand Dr. Porter correctly…but I don’t think he’s talking about creating “states” in Iraq the way it’s been bandied about previously. I think he’s talking about establishing something that is manageable at this time for Iraq and Iraqis to work with…sort of a basis from which they can work toward the future or discard when it’s no longer needed. I don’t even know if I said that right. Hope that Steve can clarify.
CMike @ 33
This is no ego trip. It is an act of conscience. No one has tried harder than I to change the Democratic Party from within. I have given years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars of my money: all to no avail.
Both major parties have been thorough corrupted, particularly since the Buckley vs. Valeo decision of the Supreme Court in the 1970s which declared that money is the equivalent of free speech in politics. That effectively destroyed the concept of one-man-one-vote but making access to government much, much, much more likely for the wealthy than for the average citizen. And you have seen the results on both sides of the aisle.
I am not trying to build a third party. I have no interest in parties. My interest is in representing my district and my nation with an un-owned, un-affiliated voice. So you need not check in with me in twenty years.
Just join me now for the sake of our democracy.
Steve
Howie, I want to donate to Dr. Porter, but the BlueAmerica page doesn’t list him. Are people donating to BlyeAmerica generic, or what? I’m confused and I want my money going specifically to the candidates I choose.
Quite a difference there.
Steven Porter:
“From the moment Pelosi took impeachment off the table, I knew there was no difference between the parties…”
Paul Wellstone:
“I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.“
howieklein @ 77
What’s their rationale for this difference?
“If just a handful of independent voices could somehow galvanize the progressive public nationally so that they could win, it would shake the 2 major parties to their roots and they might begin to think that its time to serve the people instead of the special interests.””
Paul & Kucinich!!! Convergence………?
cmike at 62—–i thought he covered it at #50
Loo Hoo. @ 37
I hope so. It seems very unlikely that anything in Iraq will change simple because the money interests vested there will keep forcing Bush to continue.
Ed*ard Teller @ 79
Yes.
You’re definitely on to something here, Dr. Porter. People like CMike @ 33, in lockstep with the D.C. establishment [where the blazes is Howard Dean these days, anyway…], are apparently ready and willing to write off the 50% of eligible American voters who now refuse to participate in the two-party straitjacket system, in order to continue to serve their “choice” of political factions [a concept of political party membership and loyalty that is increasingly distasteful to Americans not already a part of the system, it seems clear to me]. I am not. I care about our Constitution, the liberties it guarantees, and an open, deliberative process of debate in our Congress.
The rigged FISA vote, and the deception behind it that they couldn’t fully hide this time, finally made crystal clear for me that our Congress in this day and age has forsaken all public debate, for behind-closed-doors strong-arming and negotiation by party caucus – toward an agenda enforced by party “leadership.” [Even Bernie Sanders seems unable to buck that system so far - he didn’t object to Reid’s FISA UC request either, in order to at least force a full “debate” on what was about to happen to our Fourth Amendment privacy rights.] By the time Members of Congress come to the floor of the House and Senate to “debate” an issue before voting, the outcome has already been pre-determined, and the “debate” amounts to reading of press releases, no doubt mostly written by staffers. Those watching C-SPAN are watching a performance choreographed in advance according to factional loyalty, not according to Constitutional duty or to what’s best for our nation as a whole.
If you can get the word out to those in your district who no longer participate in voting, and convince just a portion of them to re-engage to vote for you, you will have tapped into a gold mine that could well lead the way to a restoration of our Constitutional, and representative, system of government. Please be sure to search out those who have disconnected from the process, and who haven’t the time or the money to discover your candidacy on their own.
I salute your principled stand, Dr. Porter, and I wish you success.
P.S. I agree with Siun’s (and selise’s) concerns about any U.S.-imposed or supported division of Iraq. That is a dreadful idea (though one pleasing to Israel’s authoritarian government), assuming that it’s true – as it seems to be, contrary to the conventional wisdom – that most Iraqis would prefer a united post-occupation Iraq with a strong central government. You (and others) may find this very informative recent article about the Sunni resistance leaders helpful with regard to what Iraqis want for their country, post-occupation:
Http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/s…..93,00.html
P.P.S. Who’s running ActBlue? The Democratic Party?
Good news!!! Act Blue is re-adding Steve Porter for the duration of this funder. This is incredible of Ben to do and he’s getting a lot of pressure from Party line Democrats who are extremely angry over this. Please don’t forget to tip Act Blue today when you donate to Steve’s campaign. And don’t wait til tomorrow because Steve won’t be on Act Blue after our funder. I understand this, of coures. They are, after all, a DEMOCRATIC fundraising mnechanism (unlike Blue America, which is a progressive fundraising mechanism).
Audrey @ 86
That’s how I read Steve’s comments. I agree the Iraqis must determine their own direction. But it *may* be necessary or beneficial to provide support for some sort of interim plan: certainly for the Kurds.
I’m not hearing any good planning from anyone in Washington: all I hear are open or veiled plans for endless war. And comments that there are no plans possible. Nonsense!
But the bottom line is get out now. We do nothing good by staying. It’s only getting worse.
howieklein @ 77
so sad to see that, like Republicans, many Democrats don’t seem to like little “d” democracy.
i don’t want to derail our conversation with steven porter, so i will hold my rant until the next thread.
Sandman @ 40
First, thank you to all of you who have contributed to me.
Now to the medical question.
Yes. We can pass HR 676, which includes dental care, to give Americans universal health services. It is the enactment of the Physicians National Health-care Plan.
In order to pass it, we need more people in Congress not beholden to the insurance and medical lobbies. That is a big reason why I became an independent.
Well, Howie, I can understand that if ActBlue wants to follow it’s mission statement, it’s all about democrats:
Our Mission
ActBlue is a Federal PAC that enables anyone — individuals, local groups, and national organizations — to fundraise for the Democratic candidates of their choice.
Launched in June 2004, ActBlue created and deployed the next generation of online fundraising technology, and has raised over $25 million for Democratic candidates and committees.
Previously, only the most well-funded and technologically-savvy groups have employed these powerful fundraising methods. But with ActBlue, groups and individuals need only choose their candidates and make their solicitations.
By providing all the technical, financial, and compliance systems, ActBlue enables every progressive organization and individual to make the most of their networks – rapidly raising otherwise untapped millions for Democrats in the closest races.
Don’t look now doc, but our problem is that we are not in a position to tell the parties in Iraq what to do. And by the way, neither the Shia nor the Kurds have any long term interest in sharing “their” oil revenues with the Sunni.
I think you’re missing the crux of the matter here. I’m quite surprised by your word choice.
You know, Dr. Porter, I just can’t accept that for us to impose some kind of external division on Iraq is the only solution. It just smacks of the sort of colonialist, “Look here, you savages, we’re going to show you how it’s done” arrogance that got us into this situation.
I do not believe that the US is even capable of imposing that kind of system on Iraq at this point. I think the Iraqis have had about all of our help that they can stand.
SeamusD @ 88
See Howie at #77.
This is not good.
I hope Act Blue is still sending Dr. Porter’s campaign the money that’s already been donated for it!
How is Blue America related to Act Blue? Do we need a new -INO designation? PINO?
FunnyDiva
It seems to me that ActBlue needs to re-evaluate their support of Bernie Sanders TODAY or they are risking being inconsistent and unfair. I like Bernie Sanders but I like Dr. Porter too. I don’t like special interests of any kind.
tparty @ 89
I’d say that a lot has changed since we lost Mr. Wellstone. The Dems have passed up a large number of opportunities to expand their “democratic wing” in a meaningful way, certainly!
FunnyDiva
fdl reader @ 104
I just spoke with Ben at Act Blue about that. He said it’s a judgement call and, most important, he put Dr. Porter back up for the day. Please donate asap.
TRex @ 102
Dr. Maryam, the Iraqi pediatric oncologist Siun invited here, and was so illuminating, made both of the points TRex brings to the fore here. I agree.
fdl reader @ 97
Thanks, fdl reader. At whatever point in time we start withdrawal in Iraq…it will be a logistical nightmare and take more time than we’d like. But we have to put in place some measures to mitigate the dangers to both our soldiers and the iraqi citizens during the process. As long as we leave the end result in Iraqi hands, I’m thinking this might be one way to accomplish that. I’ve heard of no other plans being put forward, either.
Siun @ 45
Again, thank you to all for your support and well-wishes.
Back to Iraq.
I have researched this position with great care. I would say to the Iraqis that they have 6 months to form autonomous zones with the help of our troops for defense. After that, they are on their own.
They will comply because (1) they have been yearning for tribal autonomy for a long, long time and (2) they will wish to take advantage of our protecting while it lasts.
To understand Iraq, one must understand the global tides of history. I base much of what follows on the work of great historians like Palmer and Colton (Duke and Princeton Universities).
The history of our planet for the past 1,000 years or so has been dominated by the expansion of the nations of Europe and its “children” (the US, etc.) across the globe in an era of imperialism and colonialism. That began to change after WW II. As Palmer and Colton wrote, “The nations who had dominated the world for centuries, after the Second World War, had to learn to negotiate with it.”
The neo-cons and the Project for the New American Century guys have not learned that lesson, and the major conflagrations post-WW II reflect that failure: the rise of India, the rise of China, Vietnam, the end of apartheid, the revolution in Cuba, and the conflicts of the Middle East–to name some.
Bush has placed the US in the role of a colonial occupier much as France, England, and the Dutch were in the so-called “age of exploration.”
We need to divest ourselves of that role, and we can only do it by getting out of Iraq in a way which allows the warring factions of Iraq to gain the autonomy they have sought for decades. When that happens, then the Iraqis themselves will defend their own territories and develop their own governments and economies.
We need to give them the ability to do that quickly.
fdl reader @ 104
Is there a Democrat who has filed to run against Sanders in 2008? If not, then there may not be inconsistency.
howieklein @ 96
I always tip 10%. And my contributions are 50$ or $100, most often the latter.
I’m getting a little ticked off now. I’m glad to see Dr. Porter back on Act Blue (in the last couple minutes), but I want to explain to Act Blue that they need people like me. And actiing as Rahm Emanuel’s thought police is not going to earn my continued support.
howieklein @ 99
i am a big fan of PNHP. they do great analysis, education and policy prescriptions.
Ed*ard Teller @ 110
ET, Sanders was just elected to the Senate in 2006. He won’t be up for reelection until 2012.
Ed*ard Teller @ 110
Bernie was just elected to the Senate as an Indy in ‘06 and will not stand again until’12.
Dr. Porter @ 109
I really appreciate this history and discussion. I believe this is a good foundation for discussion with the Iraqis, as you suggest/include.
Again, to listen to Washington you would think *none* of this existed. THAT’s one of the biggest problems.
Also, unlike Steven Porter, Bernie Sanders seems to understand that there is a difference between the two parties. Sanders on on the 2004 election:
montag @ 113
Duh…
C Conrad @ 46
I am sorry to disagree with you. The Democrats are the spoilers of our democracy, as are the Republicans. It is not my roll any longer to try to get them to come to their senses. It is my roll to say what needs to be said to a public which needs to hear it.
It was not Nader who cost the Democrats the election in 2000. The Florida vote was tainted from day one and would have been tainted whether or not Nader ran. And when four independent newspapers sought and got a complete vote recount in Florida, Gore had won by tens of thousands.
It was Gore’s responsibility to say, “I will not concede until every Florida vote is recounted with the scrutiny of the world looking on.”
He didn’t, and that was that.
Analogies are never foolproof, but asking me to work within the Democratic Party is something like asking someone to build a narcotics rehabilitation center by raising money from a cocaine sale.
howieklein @ 96
Just doubled my contribution, since it looks like we won’t have this chance again.
Looks like Dr. Porter will have to set up his own contributions page. The one at his site refers us to ActBlue.
Ed*ard Teller @ 110
Good Point. I don’t know … I’m looking forward to more discussion about this and more info on the nature of the “judgement call” at ActBlue. But, later, like selise suggests.
Man, these politics are some messy some days!
howie at 106 says-”I just spoke with Ben at Act Blue about that. He said it’s a judgement call and, most important, he put Dr. Porter back up for the day. Please donate asap.”
does ben understand that we can just donate to candidates directly and no longer use act blue? i’m sure that would affect their numbers.
Ed*ard Teller @ 117
Now, if you’d made that mistake about Mozart, we’d have to start wondering about you. :)
Hi Dr. Porter, is there any candidate or potential candidate you would feel comfortable with going forward?
FYI – the link to donate to Dr. Porter via Blue America is THIS one.
Today only. And don’t forget today’s swag offer: First 10 people who donate $30 or more get a nifty IMPEACH CHENEY cap! Stylin’!
dmac @ 121
;)
Cujo359 @ 47
Amen. And that is why I left the party and offer an un-fettered choice. I hope there are enough people like you across the nation to rally behind me so that my voice can be heard. And if there are, we will show America a new way to do political business. I will not be the only independent voice to come. There will be others, and soon a critical mass will be formed which will have a great effect on the major parties.
They will see that there is a better way to govern than to serve the monied interests. They will see that the people themselves–THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES–have the power to improve government.
What a breath of fresh air that will be.
Dr. Porter:
Several questions:
1–You say that “From the moment Pelosi took impeachment off the table, I knew there was no difference between the parties and that the Democrats would only posture and feign opposition which they knew would never amount to anything”
At the time that Pelosi made that statement, you were the Democratic nominee for US House in the Pennsylvania 3rd district. Since you knew then that there were no differences between the two parties, why didn’t you immediately withdraw your acceptance of that nomination and resign from the Democratic Party? What were your reasons for staying in the party at that time?
1a. Follow-up question: as you understand it, is the only possible difference between Democrats and Republicans whether or not they will impeach Bush?
2–Last year, I won a write-in campaign for a seat on the Pennsylvania State Democratic Committee, from the 8th senatorial district in Philadelphia. Since I am an elected Democratic official, do you believe there is no difference between me and Republicans?
2a. Does this lack of difference also apply to the 200 local activists in Philadelphia who won local committee seats in the local Democratic Party against the Philadelphia machine? Are we all the same as Republicans?
3–Did the problems you attribute to the Democratic Party apply to you when you were a member of the party? Specific follow up: was there a difference between you and your Republican opponent when you were the Democratic nominee? Second specific follow-up: were you in the pockets of big contributors and special interests when you were the Democratic nominee for this district?
4–Is something preventing you from running in the Democratic primary for the Pennsylvania 3rd district? I ask because it seems to me that your failure to do so causes several problems. First, it hands the Democratic nomination in the district to someone you (currently) do not approve of. Second, it justifies Senator Joe Lieberman’s decision to run on the Connecticut for Lieberman ticket, since intra-party democracy apparently is not a value worth promoting. Third, it instantly cuts your guaranteed percentage of the vote in the district by over 90%, thus making your candidacy an extreme longshot.
I know there are a lot of questions there, but any answers you could provide would be helpful. Thanks.
By the way, as a member of the Pennsylvania State Democratic Committee, I will be supporting the Democratic nominee in the district, or else face expulsion from the committee.
As a final note, I want to add that in the last state committee meeting in June, we voted on a resolution to impeach Bush and Cheney. It was narrowly defeated, but I voted yes. Do you think I should have resigned from the state committee after that happened? Also, what do you make of that vote? Clearly, not all Democrats are the same, as the state committee was split. Do you think it is therefore justified to speak of all Democrats in wide, sweeping generalizations?
Chris
I have just a general question for Doctor Porter, FunnyDiva2002 and other like minded people in this thread.
How is it you think it is easier to take over the government of the United States than it is to take over the Democratic Party?
If the left, or whatever label you want to use for yourselves, controlled the Democratic Party and if the Democratic Party controlled the Executive and Legislative branches then the left would control the government. Ultimately seeing yourselves and like minded people in control of the government is your purpose right?
howieklein @ 118
And there’s a HUGE difference between and Independent running for Congress and an Independent running for President. Independents have proven in the past they can win in local races…the more local, the better the chances.
Also, Democrats jumping ship to vote independent is a lot scarier to Dems than simply voting for an anti-leadership Dem.
jacqrat @ 124
howie at 96 says in part-” And don’t wait til tomorrow because Steve won’t be on Act Blue after our funder. I understand this, of coures. They are, after all, a DEMOCRATIC fundraising mnechanism (unlike Blue America, which is a progressive fundraising mechanism).”
howie, does this mean dr. porter will be/is on blue america?
dmac @ 121
Ben is our ally and friend. He is doing all he can to be cooperative and even though he is under tremendous pressure from Democratic Party functionaries who arte flipping out over this whole thing, he put Dr. Porter up as a courtesy to Blue America. (He was removed by a staffer who hadn’t consulted with him before pulling the plig for 15 minutes.)
steven porter @ 109
i’m no expert, but your #1 sounds right for the kurds and not for the rest of iraq. is there any polling data to support your statement?
Sandman @ 51
Bush is controlled by big money. Social Security is an easy fix. Just have everyone–rich and poor alike–pay their fair 6.2% That would create a $25 billion surplus by 2040, enough to make Social Security solvent forever.
Bush and the PNAC boys saw Social Security insolvency as a way of mongering fear and ultimately of disbanding it.
They surely don’t want Medicare to continue and are willing to let it implode economically so that the pharmaceutical and insurance lobbies which they represent can get even fatter. The fix here is HR 676, and to get it, we need more independent voices in Congress.
So…I am trying again to be one of those voices.
Hi, this is Benjamin Rahn, president of ActBlue. I wanted to jump in to clarify what’s going on.
This is our (ActBlue’s) mistake. Dr. Porter should have been removed from ActBlue once he decided to run as an independent rather than as a Democrat — but obviously we failed to remove him!
Since the mistake was brought to my attention only just now, it seems like it’s just good manners for us to not interrupt the event. We’ll remove him at the conclusion of the weekend.
I do sincerely apologize for the temporary removal earlier in the discussion. I’m not going to throw someone under the bus, but just to explain what happened: someone junior at ActBlue couldn’t get ahold of me and made a judgement call, and removed Steven Porter. Once I was back with my phone, I found it, and we fixed it.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
I am, of course, in contact with Howie, et al, about this — we’ll make sure this kind of thing doesn’t happen again.
dmac @ 121
Having read their mission statement, I’d say that this is ActBlue’s judgement call to make. I disagree with it, but I (and others) have the option of starting our own web service that supports the candidates we favor. I’d rather not get into a balkanized state of funding progressive candidates, but it’s our option to change this situation. They built the site on their own time, and I respect their right to determine how it is used.
I’m not trying to set up a strawman here, just pointing out that this is something they did with their own sweat and blood for their own reasons. I’m more upset at those unmamed Democrats who objected to this. Talk about petty.
dmac @ 131
If someone with more technical skill than I have can figure out how to solve this problem, I would love it. We certainly WANT to keep him up, but the software is part of Act Blue. I’ll try to solve this. Great question!
Gracious… colonialism raises its ugly head yet again. Lets just go and beat the sh*t out of a country and then order them to do what we want based on what we want from them. What unbelievable arrogance!
And just where is Dr Porter going to paint the border lines? This side of the road Kurdish that side Sunni? Arrogance and greed is what got us into this bloody mess arrogance and greed is not going to get us out.
One thing is dead certain. Until the US gets out of the way and lets adults deal with the situation nothing good will happen.
Bushco wants all the oil rights and they will support to whatever group looks like they will give it to them. Once the group is identified they hope to give them guns and ammo sufficient to create a dictatorship friendly to Israel and the US.
Hopefully the Iraqis will keep the oil rights, have a civil war, and…. well end up with either a dictatorship or a democracy but without interference from Israel or the US.
Iraq and much of the ME is going to be a mess until they sort it out themselves. Yep it may take another thousand years.
Howard Shanker is a grassroots progressive and he lives in Arizona AND in my district??!
No one told me, and I live here.
So much for the DLC running our state’s party ‘working jointly with the netroots’ Mr. Ford!
I worked for Ellen Simon last cycle, and again if it wasn’t for Raaaaaahhhhhhhhhm and Gonzo she’d be running for re-election today.
I’ll hunt Howard down right now!
I’m a little put off that a respected “blogger” from another site has the audacity to reprimand FDL for what it chooses to post…I didn’t know that we have to follow a blogger leader. Just my 2 cents.
howieklein @ 132
OK, fair enough. Sounds like he’s in a tough position, so I hope Ben won’t take our frustration here as directed at him as a person (though that’s hard when the frustrated are tossing your name around as a stand in for the powers that be…)
Can we change dmac’s question to
Will Ben be passing our feedback to the Democratic Party Funcionaries so that /they/ “understand that we can just donate to candidates directly and no longer use act blue?”
FunnyDiva
Benjamin Rahn @ 135
Isn’t that a bit petty, Rahm, err.. Rahn?!!! :-(
HAZmaq @ 139
I spoke to Howard yesterday. What a great candidate! He’ll be joining us here at FDL for a chat in mid-October
Absolutely not. ActBlue is a capital-D Democratic coalition with specific goals and no obligation to support every candidate running against a Republican. I concur with their decision.
nomolos @ 138
As Doctor Porter explained above to my satisfaction…the Iraqis will do the dividing. I’m totally against the US dividing Iraq for the known reasons and for Dr Maryam’s as well. I just want to find the safest way out.
TRex @ 144
Capital D, eh…??? :~)
Drive by …
Yeaaaaa, Dr. Porter.
Wish I had money to give right now, but maybe in a few weeks.
BTW, do not listen to anyone saying you shouldn’t run because you’re not a Democrat, just stay true to your own self
Thanks
Ben – Thanks for coming by and explaining the ActBlue position. You’ve done amazing work and have always been really helpful to our community.
The ones to be frustrated with here – firepup friends – are not the folks like Ben who do great grassroots work but the leadership of the Democratic party who refuse to hear us and act on behalf of the constitution. Let’s keep our anger directed where it belongs.
I’m guessing that folks who are building a new progressive infrastructure are going to have to do some thinking about how to approach candidates who move outside the D column *because* they are progressives (unlike Liebercrats) and see how that impacts the work we all do together. That may take some time and it will be much better if we have that conversation as friends.
tparty @ 116
i think there is a difference too. but not enough of one.
in any event, i think there are a lot more important issues than a candidate’s view of the democratic party. i’m more interested in issues like the iraq war, impeachment and oversight of the current (and future) administrations.
the fisa debacle, in addition to the issues of iran war mongering and lack of bush administration oversight this year, have sadly been a painful education for me.
and the negative response here today, by people who rarely particpate, is another disappointing lesson.
i’m not suggesting that you or anyone else should stop working within the party to effect change… i just don’t admire the effort to undermine those who want to work outside the party.
Sandman @ 65
An aside before I answer. Sandman, you ask great questions.
National Debt…
Yes, it can be fixed by increasing the federal revenue and decreasing unneeded federal expenditures.
The first can be accomplished by having the wealthiest pay their fair share of taxes. Let me give you two examples of where they are not. (1) Social Security taxes end at (in round numbers) $100,000. That means that someone earning, say, $250,000 pays nothing to Social Security on $150,000 of income. The loss is staggering.
(2) Corporations often no taxes at all. Here is a real statistic. In 1960, Corporations paid 24% of all federal taxes. Today they pay 8%. The difference has over the years of special-interest government been shifted to the backs of the Middle Class which is now both dwindling and weaker. There is much more to the revenue-earned stream as well: capital gains rates, tax loopholes, etc.
As to the spending stream, I need go no farther than our incursion into Iraq, which is now approaching $1 trillion and will be much more when the long-term medical care costs are factored in. All this with virtually no return on that “investment.” Stop the silly war and policies like it, and we may really see the “peace dividend” which was promised when the Berlin wall fell.
I hope that makes some sense to you.
Audrey @ 145
I think expecting civil discourse rather than civil war is in the area of bush reality.
Siun @ 148
Have I told you lately how much I Luuuuuurrrrve Your brain and heart, Siun? HUGS
The distinction being made because to say “a democratic coalition” would only mean that they are a group of people who vote amongst themselves.
TRex @ 144
I’m thinking I will no longer donate through Act Blue. I don’t support Foust, why should I bleed any of my contribution dollars to an organization that does?
I suggest you look at Siun’s comment above. ActBlue are not The Man, guys. They have done amazing work and we have a lot to thank them for.
TRex @ 144
OK…so…
is there or is anyone building a capital P-for-progressive coalition to back good candidates regardless of party affiliation? Because I think we really need candidates like Dr. Porter, and the bottom line is that they need funding from “small money” interests.
I don’t want to knock Act Blue. But it’s pretty clear that there’s a gap that needs to be filled. Unless one accepts that affiliation with one of the 2 parties is mandatory and anybody unaffiliated deserves no meaningfully organized support.
FunnyDiva
Jane’s upstairs…
howie at 132
ok
hope you can do a post about this sometime……..
New thread.
CMike @ 128
To illustrate, let’s suppose for a moment that instead of the current mix in the House there were the same number of Democrats who voted against the recent FISA “upgrade”, the same number of Republicans who voted against it (essentially all of them), and a mix of 45 progressive and libertarian independents. Would that foolish piece of legislation have passed? It probably wouldn’t.
Your question is a ridiculous one. I’m not out to take over the government. I want better government. If I took it over that would mean I’d have to run it, and I have better things to do. It’s quite clear I’m not going to get that with the Democrats who are leading the party now. I judge a government by the results it achieves, not by what it says on TV. By those criteria, there’s precious little difference between the two parties.
An aside before I answer. Sandman, you ask great questions.
Thank you for answering my questions, Dr. Porter, best of luck winning and Take Back America!
Note: My current Congressman Dave Weldon(FL-R) won’t answer any of my email questions.
nomolos @ 151
Heh! I corrected your typo. Completely agreed. I just hope we don’t have to wait for the next election to do the right thing.
hate2haggle @ 73
Interesting question.
I made a decision on the 16th not to have a “balloons and beer” announcement. I have divorced myself from a kind of cheap political theatre which I feel demeans the process of government.
Instead, I called every major media outlet in the 200-mile stretch of PA-03 and made appointments with the media starting in the morning and going all through the day.
The result was terrific. Everyone saw me and all but one reporter at only one paper interviewed me in-depth–with much, much more time than a usual press conference. I was filmed at two of the three TV stations and conducted newspaper interviews which lasted as long as a full hour.
In today’s Erie Times News, the paper’s editorial board, which reported my announcement both prominently and fairly, gave me a “thumbs down” for my candidacy, saying that it was an act of sour grapes egomania. I was not surprised, since it is a right-leaning paper which has always supported English. In fact, English’s father was their legal council, I believe.
Beyond that, I have been astounded by the interest and coverage. I hope it continues.
Siun @ 74
Dear Siun,
Now that we have already imposed ourselves to the point of ruining the nation, we need to give the Iraqi a chance to run their own country. For us to leave without letting that autonomy take hold would mean utter chaos and great bloodshed. We owe them more. I would ask you how you would handle it?
Thank you for your good wishes.
Steve
Siun @ 148
Thanks, Siun
You said it much better than I did.
As a front-pager, is this a conversation we could have here at FDL? Maybe at least some pertinent links for directing the frustration and anger in the right direction?
FunnyDiva
TribeScribe @ 75
Those are good points. Let me answer.
No plan in this horrible affair is going to be “foolproof” or without difficulty. The 3-state plan has the best chance of working, at least according to all the research I have done. I think Biden knows that, as well.
I see no reason why any “blended” family might not be give full status in the zone of their choice by law. I also do not preclude a fourth zone for “blended families” if that is what the Iraqi people would like and if the occupants of such a zone would be willing to defend it.
Benjamin Rahn @ 135 –
thank you very much for stopping by to explain what happened, and for putting steven porter’s page back up for the weekend.. that’s very much appreciated. just wanted to let you know – because i’m angry, and didn’t want you to think it was directed at you.
(whoever complained today and insisted that steven porter’s page be removed in the middle of a fundraiser is, however, on my list)
montag @ 122
He’s a solid progressive, running unopposed.
selise @ 149
Dr. Porter, I wish you all the best in your quest. Hope the next time you visit it won’t be such a technological challenge! :)
Cujo359 @ 160
Just have to say this is exactly where I am coming from. The status quo is more status quo than we thought. The machinery is really entrenched. It is quite distressing. This is not about (teh boogeyman) Nader.
Dr. Porter @ 166
Your spirit of ‘if blended families need/want accommodation that should be part of the plan’ thought is what I sensed in your initial statement.
This is the cooperative spirit with Iraqis we need to engage to end this occupation with any hope and dignity at all. We owe them this. Thank you. This is true leadership.
Cujo359 @ 160
Thanks, Cujo. What you said!
FunnyDiva
steve – thank you very much for working through all the problems today (your browser crashes, the actblue snafu) and i hope there will be a easy way for us to continue to contribute to your campaign. good luck!
Dr Porter – I agree with your analysis of what we have done in Iraq but not your proposed solution.
I believe very strongly that our only right action is to leave, as quickly and completely as possible. US troops are not providing protection but are instead the cause of the major violence in Iraq. I think we need to look very clearly at the actions of our troops in Iraq – from the children killed by speeding hummers to the householders killed in the rubble of our airstrikes, we are not defenders. The US military is not a defensive force and assuming it is capable of defensive action is – I believe – a serious misreading of the brutal approach our troops are taking.
Look at the FOIA reports the ACLU managed to get on US troop condolence payments to Iraqis (and read the descriptions of why those payments were made), look at the Chris Hedges report in the Nation, look at the pictures from Baghdad after another of our “protective” raids has destroyed yet another residential neighborhood … this is not a force capable of defensive or honorable action.
And relying on the Iraqi “government” which is a puppet government crafted by our interests and not those of the Iraqis to split the country into those segments we approve of (Kurd, Shia, Sunni) ignores the complete lack of Iraqi support that “government” can claim and the wishes of the Iraqi people for selfdetermination and a unified Iraq. The division of Iraq is a solution designed by big oil powers to provide greater access to the oil wealth of the whole Iraqi people by placing key reserves in the hands of segments of Iraq who are quite happy to give away their patrimony for short term gain.
Such a division will not achieve peace and will not protect the interests of the Iraqi people – and by institutionalizing sectarian positions, I believe it will in fact lead to increased and longer violence.
We have to remember how much our view if shaped by colonialist attitudes rather than actual Iraqi voices. Even Iraqis like the writers at Azzaman who are quite moderate and primarily secular oppose such plans.
I think it is time we let Iraqis decide their own future.
fdl reader @ 76
Again, thank you to all of you for your comments, support, and compliments.
Let me try to tackle the “fear machine” in Washington.
I think it is wise to remember the same machine at work in Vietnam when we were told about the “domino theory” which would have all of Asia falling after our withdrawal from what was essentially a colonial war against the French and then against US domination.
If the Iraqis have lands of their own which can support them, which can be fairly governed by them, they will fight just as we would fight, to stop any civil or outside intrusion. The threats of terrorism exist because of the conditions of poverty and despair, of domination and greed, which have oppressed the peoples in whose populations terrorists develop.
It is a matter of immediate protection, of course, to oppose a terrorist who is coming at us with a bomb or a plane or a gun or a plague. But is a conditions which in the long range can never be solved by military action. It needs the economic, social, and political policies which make life worth living for people who feel it is not now worth living.
To stop the propaganda machine of Washington, we need people unafraid to say that who participate in the government. We need an ethic such as we saw in the Peace Corp where we said to our youth, “Don’t shoulder a gun, but go out and give to the unfortunates of the world in whatever way you can.” Today, we say to our youth, “Take up arms and kill.” It has never worked and never will.
Similarly, the abrogation of our civil liberties at the hands of this administration has occurred because the opposition has been way too timid. It has been made more easy, moreover, by appointments to the Supreme Court whose rulings allow the erosion.
Again the remedy is to speak out, to galvanize a new ethic, and to work for the eventual change of thinking which that ethic can provide.
Time is always on the side of righteousness because the opposite creates so much pain, and pain leads people to rethink the status quo. My great fear is that the pain will be so great and the rethinking process so delayed that a era of great destruction may not be avoided.
We have the capacity to end this experiment of life on earth in many ways: nuclear violence, ecological disaster, biological disaster. We are running out of time to make our change, and it may be that the changes will be made for us in the forms of annihilation or extinction. That will certainly solve the problems but at a cost no one in his or her right mind should want to pay.
It is against all of that, I offer my voice as a choice for rational change.
What you delete is my last paragraph:
I am really curious why you think that paragraph is insulting. Is your objection that I refer to your group as the “left” instead of bestowing the term “progressive” or some other preferred term?
Do you object to the explicit recognition that the purpose of sincere political activism in a democracy is to achieve political power?
When you say, “I’m not out to take over the government. I want better government,” I don’t get it. Either you want to elect people who will advance of your agenda or you want people to elect you so you can advance an agenda. Elected officials are in control of the government. Control is not a bad word – elections determine who controls the government.
montag @ 80
I sent out letters asking for donations in any amount only to those who had donated to me in the past. I suggested the amount because it was what I needed from each of my 2,000 contributors to run a successful campaign.
I will be using another agency beside Act Blue in this campaign, and my webmaster will be setting that up shortly.
Meanwhile, if you cannot contribute to me now online, you might try my website (www.porter4congress.com) in a week or so, or you can send a contribution to Porter for Congress at 9451 Page Road, Wattsburg, PA 16442.
And thank you.
dmac @ 83
I think I addressed this earlier, but let me repeat. Any blended family should be able to choose a zone to live in peacefully, and there is no reason why, if the Iraqis want one, a fourth zone for “blended” families might not be established.
howieklein @ 126
I absolutely disagree with both of you. You’re either a Democrat or you are NOT. If you’re NOT you don’t deserve a penny of Dem money from the Dem party coffers.
I don’t smell any fresh air around Joe Lieberman, do you?
The key#1 reason for donating money to Act Blue or any Democratic party fundraising efforts is to win more of a Democratic majority in Congress.
The Democratic leadership made a fatal error enabling and empowering Joe Lieberman as an (I).
We’ll fight to see to make sure that mistake is never made again.
Sanders was always a solid trustworthy progressive (I)).
We’ll find few others like him.
Great. Y
TRex @ 84
I am not sure that “walling themselves off” is the way that the Iraqi sects would describe it.
But, that said, yes we have made an unmitigated mess, and yes reparations are in order.
dr. porter-i guess time ran out before you got to my comment at 83…….later when you read comments, please consider what i was saying, iraq is not the same situation as yugoslavia……they were a society already segregated, by choice…….iraq isn’t……..
thank you for coming………
Dr. Porter @ 176
Thank you for your response!
I agree with you. More than that, you are clearly thinking all this through very carefully and stand on your own values and principles supported by education. And you are clearly willing to engage citizens in discussion!
I really appreciate your standing for ‘rational’ change. Good luck with your campaign.
HAZmaq @ 180
ActBlue is like PayPal for Democrats. You don’t donate to Act Blue; you donate directly to Democratic candidates thru them. They are nothing like the DCCC or DSCC. And Act Blue decided to stick with Sanders; very admirable.
Audrey @ 86
Thank you. You said it exactly right. I mean autonomous zones, not separate countries. I mean places of refuge for each of the warring sects where they can live in peace. It would be up the them when this is done to develop any permanent system.
CMike @ 177
According to the Constitution, We the People ARE the government. Since WE the People are a diverse bunch, the voices of all must be included, no? For too long the elected officials have been divorcing themselves from the electorate, relying solely on think tanks and focus groups and corporations. We seek to change that. Saying we on the left want to gain power is not quite right. We are a progressive bunch that encompasses a lot of different ideas. We want our power back, yes. The power that has been usurped.
The way you frame the statement is what’s wrong with what you said.
Hope this helps.
SeamusD @ 88
Thank you for your sentiments. I think what has just happened is that I have been taken off a Blue America list because I am no longer a Democrat, even though I consider myself far “bluer” than most Democrats running.
My webmaster will arrange another service to accept online contributions soon.
Meanwhile, you can send whatever you care to Porter for Congress at 9451 Page Road Wattsburg, PA 16442–or you can check my website contribution link in a week or so (www.porter4congress.com).
NOTE: Dr. Porter is back up at Act Blue for the weekend. Ben and our friends there have bent their own rules– Democrats only– to accomodate the Blue America community. I urge you to donate to Dr. Porter’s campaign today (and to tip Act Blue).
Cujo359 @ 90
I am sorry, I don’t know their rationale. You will have to ask them. I am sorry that they have done this, but I will provide another online contribution server soon. Thank you and everyone else who is willing to stand with me for better government.
Steve
I do not see your point. After 1938, the so-called Conservative Coalition made up of Republicans and some Democrats blocked a lot of FDR wanted to do domestically. As long as conservatives make up 60% of the legislature they will have a lot of power. If they are a majority in both caucuses they will dominate the legislature.
Why would having a third caucus of progressive and libertarians independents undermine a majority conservative coalition? What does a third caucus have to do with empowering progressives?
pow wow @ 95
Many thanks for your comments.
It may not be possible at this moment to begin with a united Iraq because of the decades of factionalism there. That is why I and others (like Biden) have suggested autonomous zones where people can live in some semblance of security for now. It time, it will be up the Iraqis of all of those zones to determine their own political structure.
dr. porter at 179 says-”I think I addressed this earlier, but let me repeat. Any blended family should be able to choose a zone to live in peacefully, and there is no reason why, if the Iraqis want one, a fourth zone for “blended” families might not be established.”
you commented, but didn’t address it……..why should communities and families have to be displaced to a ‘zone’? this makes no sense to me whatsoever. seems to me, families have been disrupted enough already, and now they have to move? some of them, again? many are wanting to be able to go home, where they choose to live……and we’re going to put them in an area decided by the government?
yugoslavia was an entirely different scenario……..i really wish you would reconsider your thinking on this one……..
howieklein @ 185
Thank you for clarifying that. It was something in your wording that made me think this is different from what we’ve been hearing about partitioning. As you can tell, this is something most here feel very strongly about. It’s a tricky subject. But there aren’t really any good options with the mess we’ve made. I can support this idea.
Howie Klein
no reply from Cmike to that one… where did he go?
Why no mention of Pat Buchanan ruining it for the Gore/Lieberman ticket? Many thousands of Jewish retirees in Palm Beach mysteriously voted for him…
oh yeah, isn’t also possible that the odious Lieberman alienated enough potential supporters to cost Gore the election?
Why all the outrage against poor Ralph? Maybe because the prospect of a viable Progressive candidate is what scares (D) Party operatives the most?
They should make Ralph Nader Halloween costumes…. he’s so frightening!
Great work Howie, and good luck Dr. Porter – this country needs more candidates like you at all levels.
howieklein @ 96
I must tell you that I am overwhelmed by the generosity of Act Blue for doing what they did just now.
This comment is to them. Please see that they read it.
I will be setting up another online server shortly, but let me repeat my gratitude to you today. And let me tell you you I will remain bluer and I hope truer to the principles of democracy or at least as blue and as true, as any candidate you help.
I was proud to be with you in 2004 and 2006, and I am proud to be with you today. I hope to God that one day you will be proud of what I can do to pay you and the people who have supported back in the Congress of the United States.
With great fondness,
Steve
CMike @ 177
Because to me, what we call ourselves is beside the point. Simply saying “those of you who are willing to support a third party candidate” is enough of a label. Saying otherwise seems to imply we’re hung up on petty nonsense. Besides, a libertarian or Green (for example) would have a different point of view on what he wants in the way of legislation or government priorities than I do.
Elections control who is in government. Who controls it is entirely a separate matter. What I want are people who will vote their consciences on the really crucial issues, which means I want good people. Of course, I also want people who would vote the way I’d want them to, but in the end I have to depend on them to do what’s right, because I can’t be on the phone with them all the time, and because I just don’t know everything.
He’s @ 189 Sporky, fwiw.
Hope to see you around later and join you in a better discussion, though.
Feh!
FunnyDiva
sporkovat @ 193
thanks for coming, dr. porter……good luck to you.
Thanks Diva, I was lagging.
Nader is like a crucifix to a vampire for them, isn’t he?
LS @ 123
I see no Presidential candidate at present who has won my heart or my mind, though I must say the Kucinich seems to have a thoroughly honest and courageous approach to the major issues and that John Edwards and his wife seem to be people of exceptional character.
In the local Congressional race, I am running precisely because no announced candidate has impressed me with stances on the major issues.
And to the person who said that I didn’t get it about the major parties, I must answer that I “get it” all too well.
Yes, I would likely vote far, far more often with a Democratic bill than a Republican one. Yes, I think that Democratic positions are more positive from a social and, perhaps, an economic point of view. But for anyone who thinks that special interests do not absolutely control both parties, I must tell you that you are living in a fool’s paradise.
You will see who contributes to the candidates on CQ Moneyline, on Vote Smart, and on Open Secrets. Just look and you will understand that I am telling you the truth.
Since Buckley vs. Valeo, both major parties are there primarily to raise big money. No democracy can long thrive in such an environment, and ours has, indeed, declined mightily because of that environment.
You won’t have universal health care until Congress represents people more than pharmaceutical and insurance companies. You won’t have an end to manufactured wars until Congress ceases to be owned by what Eisenhower in his farewell address quite correctly called “the military/industrial complex.” You won’t have an end to global warming until the average citizen has as much clout in Congress as the oil companies.
And if you think that catastrophic errors cannot be made by the special interests which control government, please think again. Iraq was a catastrophic error. The accumulation of greenhouse gases may be a defining error in the processes of life itself.
The time is now to being to change that. We dare not wait much longer.
CMike @ 189
That’s because it wouldn’t be 60% conservative. 183 plus 45 equals 228, or more than 52%. On other issues, it would break down differently, of course, but at the moment I see no outcomes that would be worse with the mix I posited than with the current one.
Thanks for the response. The fact is we live in the democratic Republic that the Constitution has up. We elect representatives, including an executive, for specified terms of office. While in office, our representatives run the government.
Our Constitution did not set up our government as an Athenian democracy. Unlike in ancient Attica, “We the people” do not vote on specific issues throughout the year.
I am not trying to be condescending. My point is that, though the Founders had hoped that there would not be factions, the nature of electoral politics made political parties inevitable. Political parties are the institutions through which “We the people” rule.
sporkovat @ 199
Hey ho! Nader is teh boogeyman!
Hey, Dr. Steve
Thanks for staying with us and methodically answering questions. I love the story of how you got the news of your campaign out without the traditional “presser” and that it was more effective than one, too.
And everything I’ve read from you here just confirms that you’re not only a great candidate but a class act. Wish I could’ve contributed more.
Best,
FunnyDiva
Chris Bowers @ 127
Question 1. Because I had already made a commitment to my supporters. And you are wrong anyway. John Conyers was conducting preliminary impeachment hearings with all sorts of experts (including former Congresswoman Liz Holtzman, who served on the Watergate panel).
Question 1a. I think you don’t understand my position. I have left the Democratic party not because of the differences between the Democrats and the Republicans but because both are now so thoroughly controlled by special interests that differences are rather muted and often never acted upon.
Question 2. I don’t know you. How can I possibly answer that question?
Question 2a. Same answer as above. It is not the surface differences which matter to me any longer. It is the corruption of the entire major-partly/special interest process. I will tell you what would impress me. If the Democrats were to say, “It is our position to establish the public funding of campaigns in every local, state, or federal election and to forego accepting any special interest money from now on,” I would rethink my position. What do you think the chances are that that would happen?
Question 3. Yes, the problem was a palpable concern when I was a Democrat, and no, I never took big special interest money with the exception of some labor unions, but, believe me it wasn’t much. I took union money because I have been a union member and believe in union causes. And because unions represent the average citizen. But the process was still rotten, and I campaigned on a promise not to take any corporate money. Most of the money for every campaign I have ever run has come out of my own bank account.
Question 4. I have said this ad nauseum. I left the Democratic Party because I believe it no longer speaks to me. I believe it is little more than a money machine whose primary job, like the Republican party, is to raise huge sums from fat cats who then gain an unequal access to government. It is not my responsibility to tell the Democrats who to nominate or to support their nominee because he or she happens to have a “D” beside their name. It is not my responsibility to justify or not justify Joe Lieberman. My responsibility is to stand for honest, fair government and to be free to speak on the issues as I choose. I can do that with far more integrity as an independent than I ever could as a Democrat or ever could as the standard-bearer for any party.
Last questions. I am happy for anyone who voted for impeachment, Democrat or no. As to what I think you ought to have done, I am not the kind of person who would dare to tell you how to conduct your own political affairs. I think you ought to decide your positions for yourself. It is not up to me, particularly since I don’t know you or the situation in which you function, to presume to tell you anything. I can only hope that whatever decisions you make, you do so with a righteous heart and a reasoned mind. As for speaking of Democrats in wide, sweeping generalizations, the funding of campaigns is a ubiquitous process, as you know, and the dominant process of both major parties.
That’s absolute rubbish. The election was such a close election that lots of different matters can be said to have determined the election. Certainly, had Nader not run Gore would have been elected.
Maybe if the Supreme Court had ruled differently, Gore would have won. Maybe if Gore had chosen a different running mate he would have won. Maybe if the butterfly ballot had been drawn up differently, Gore would have won. Maybe if the purge of the voter roles had been headed off, Gore would have won.
But it is undeniable that the votes that Nader won that Gore otherwise would have won in Florida proved decisive in determining the outcome. Just because looking back there were several other matters that made a difference, it still remains a fact that the Nader campaign put Bush in the White House.
For those of you who think there is no difference between the parties why don’t you just man up and say, “yeah, Nader cost Gore the election but so what?”
CMike @ 128
I am not a person who wants to “take over” anything. I merely want the process of honest representation to be restored to our democracy. I am hoping that being an un-owned, independent, and hopefully intelligent voice in Washington will be a step toward that end.
If we had the public funding of elections, and consequently candidates ran not on the amount of money they could raise, but on their positions on the issues, whoever was elected would be in a better position to represent the people. It wouldn’t matter to me if such a Congress were Republican or Democrat, left or right because that kind of politics would be greatly minimized.
It is not the politics of left and right which intrigues me, but rather the politics of right and wrong. And positions which are taken because a candidate can argue the rightness or wrongness of them and then vote accordingly are the positions of value to me.
The complete domination of any one set of ideas is, for me, dangerous to a democracy, particularly a pluralistic democracy such as we have in America. Voices of all stripes need to be heard–as long as they honestly represent the will of the general public.
CMike @ 206
Well now we’re back to where we started. Why are progressives or independent Libertarians more likely to win general elections than they are to win party primaries? The fact is, it is harder for them to win in a general election than in a primary.
CMike @ #206,
Al Gore won Florida. The main reason the vote was so close there was that the GOP stole tens of thousands of votes and kept tens of thousands of African Americans and non-Cuban Hispanics from voting through outright intimidation, illegal purges and illegal caging. This is well documented. Even with those tens of thousands of lost votes, the fact that it came that close is far more interesting than Nader’s presence in the race, and far more important. Any Democrat who still blames Ralph Nader for the Florida result and who also denies the institutional racism in the Democratic machinery which CONTINUES to shirk its duties toward our African American and non-white voters in the Southeast and other places is enabling that racism. period!
howieklein @ 132
Let me second Howie’s support of Ben (whom I do not think I have ever dealt with).
Act Blue has been fighting for what it believe is right, and if my independence is a conflict for them, then so be it. They are being very gracious today, and I thank them for that.
I will set up another contribution mechanism soon.
And it is not surprising that the Democratic party functionaries are quite angry with me. That is hardly unexpected. But as angry as they may be with me, it is not as sad as I have been to admit that it was time for me to leave the party.
Thanks Howie Klein @208. I know about the bold thing – I am trying to follow along but someone quoted an entry of yours and I didn’t want to go back and find the precise quote. I should have made more of an effort since I was talking about a rather sensitive subject.
CMike @ 209
We’re back to irrelevance, then. I want good people in government, not people of one particular party or another. Further, I want progressives. It’s possible for independents to win elections. They just can’t win a lot of them. I’ll take a progressive independent over a corporate hack Democrat any day. And if I end up with a Republican because the vote is split, I figure the corporate hack and the Republican won’t be very different in their voting patterns, anyway.
Dr. Porter @ 205 & 207
I like these answers too!
ET @ 210
AMEN!
I’m a person who spent 16 years in the Alaska Green Party and registered last spring as a Democrat. I identify with the platform, if not the aspirations of both the Alaska and national Green Party USA. I am also highly critical of much of the current national leadership of the Democratic Party.
But anyone who thinks this isn’t the most ripe time for an internal takeover by progressives and true liberals of the Democratic Party in years, hasn’t been keeping up with what is happening. We should be rebuilding this party from the bottom up, from the youngest and the oldest toward the middle. We should be recruiting disillusioned GOPers.
Sorry, Dr. Porter. I admire your music and your theory texts, and respect your political stances, by and large – Iraq division being an exception – but I hope you find a way back into the growing progressive fold of the Democratic Party. Good luck on your race!
selise @ 133
I have not seen recent polls. The last I saw were mostly about the US leaving Iraq, not about local controls for Iraqis. However, you can get a pretty clear idea of the desire for such controls from the language of the Iraqi constitutions itself (which you can read online) and from the obvious, violent, and continuous assault by one Iraqi sect on another.
Again, the zones I suggest are only the beginning of a process which will allow the Iraqis themselves to live free from violence and free decide the ultimate shape of their nation and government.
It is a coherent plan, based on historical perspective and the analysis of current events. It is hardly supported by me alone, but, as one blogger has mentioned today, by many well-informed people like Senator Biden, and I also believe Governor Richardson.
And finally again, no plan is foolproof or, at this point in the Iraq mess, without difficultly. It is a way to stop the slaughter of our kids and of innocent Iraqis and to try to do it without wholesale chaos and the exponential growth of terrorism in Iraq.
Cmike, the (D) party has two presidential elections brazenly stolen, and all you can do is blame Nader, after listing half a dozen other co-factors?
Did Nader steal the votes in Ohio in 2004 as well?
This Nader obsession and demonization has to do with (D) psychology and the threat that a valid alternative would pose to the two party duopoly.
dr. porter at 211, it’s ok now, i said ok earlier, and asked if howie could put you on the blue america page, since it’s for progressives……he said he’d look into it…….
I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing. The fact is elections are about taking control of the government. Why all you independents are so intent on using the most mealy mouthed rhetoric you can manage is a mystery to me.
If you remained in the Democratic Party and won a Democratic primary, why would that mean you were owned Doctor? Is it your contention that every Democrat in congress is owned?
Sporkovat,
Go vote for Nader or go call Jack Webb and get your elections back. I don’t care what you do. Me, I want things to get better in 2008.
Ed*ard Teller @ 215
Hey, ET.
You’re probably right about re-building the party from the ground up, but that takes time, and I suspect it will also require some more external pressure–something more positive than just hating Rethugs. Several someones like Dr. Porter, in fact.
Maybe a combination of wake-up calls from both inside and outside(but not ‘thuglican) could work better and/or sooner than just from inside? Because we need elected representatives to speak for We The People now.
(and have you completed your compositional committments, or are you just taking a break?)
FunnyDiva
Dr. Porter,
I believe your independent candidacy has merit because of your strong voice on impeachment and immediate redeployment from Iraq. I believe both positions are not only the most moral but would also lessen the violence as Sunni and Shia alike are practically united in the fact that they want us out.
CMike @ 220
One phenom I’ve observed since 2000 is what one might call “Green hate” among many Democrats. It is mostly irrational. Part of the reason we built such a large – at least by national standards – Green Party in Alaska in the early to mid 1990s was the betrayal many Dems and independents felt by the Alaska Democratic machine which had been so complicit in the lax regulatory environment which led to the Exxon Valdez catastrophe. I teach college and have kids that age. I talk to these kids a lot. They would be far more likely to join a Democratic Party where they felt welcome, very welcome, whether or not they had been a Green and had voted against some machine pol in the past.
Funnydiva2002,
I’m still chained to my studio computer, but managed to smuggle the laptop in here while the evil conductors were looking in another direction. I just finished a satisfactory concluding strain to the concluding rag of my big piece, and have to finish a few details on a new piece I was asked to do last week. A lot of part writing still to do on the orchestral piece. But I get to fly to SE Alaska in nine days for a week of concerts with some really great musicians – some from Seattle.
Ed*ard Teller @ 210
thank you ET, very well said. (and i voted for gore).
Let’s see, I’m a Green hater and I enable racism. Lucky me, I now know these things about myself because someone who is rational just told them to me. I’m guessing there are not a lot of mirrors in Ed’s house.
Ya know I find it amusing that some people question the validity of Dr. Porter’s reasons for doing what he’s doing because he’s not a Democrat
Let me tell you a little story:
My Grandmother on my Mothers side became involved in politics in the 30’s and 40’s and volunteered for FDR and whatever Democrats were running way back then; she registered voters; stuffed mail; made calls; ran errands and did whatever had to be done because she believed in what they were about.
There is a very good chance if you are from LA County that she registered you to vote especially if you lived in the Long Beach, Torrance, Lomita, Inglewood areas. She knew everyone and everyone knew her Sam Yorty and Tom Bradley if they were still alive would call her a friend – if you went up to Tommy Lasorda today and mentioned her name, he would remember her. When the Pope — The POPE — came to LA 15 or so years ago she got an audience.
If Alan Cranston were still alive he would know who she was as would Clair Engle and John Tunney
My Grandfather on my Fathers side was a mayor for 13 terms and worked for local candidates year after year after year. He was a precinct Captain when he was in his 20’s and tried to get Alfred Smith elected in 1928. He met FDR, Adlai Stevenson, and John and Robert Kennedy
I’ve registered people to vote; and worked on local Democratic campaigns since 2003; I’m on the Steering Committee of our local DFA group; and am an elected Board member of the local ACLU because of what was happening to this country
I say all this because they put me in the frame of mind I’m in which is: There is nowhere in the Constitution of the United States where it states that there should be two, and only two political parties, and one should be able to run for office unless one is a member of a political party
And I say Dr. Porter should run — run like there’s no tomorrow, no matter who his opposition is because this is America where the first three words to the highest law of the land say
We the People
John in Sac’to @227
I’m applauding because no comment could possibly do that justice.
Thanks.
CMike @ 226
If I make general observations and you take them personally, maybe you need to work on that. What you said is a bit bizarre. We have a normal number of mirrors here.
Thanks for the advice Ed.
Ed*ard Teller @ 223
the thing that seems really irrational to me is thinking that browbeating people will get more votes than appealing to common goals and values.
Ed*ard Teller @ 215
i agree, ET, except that i think a few challenges can push the party insiders in a helpful direction. i hope that the inside work will be aided by outside actions (for example make progressive Ds more acceptable to party leaders as a way to avoid progressive, I or G, challengers).
don’t know if this is so… but i see the inside and outside actions as complimentary.
p.s. here in MA we passed a clean election law… only to have our dem state lege block implementation. finally our D lege and our R gov revoked it. pissed off a lot of the D base… and taught me how little “d” democracy matters to our state D pols. hope we can change that.
CMike @ 226
Although you claim to not be trying to be condescending, your rhetoric since arriving has been out of line with polite discourse. You do seem to be trying to be insulting. I have to question your motives for being here.
If you don’t like what we have to say about “you” perhaps you need to define for us who “you” are (now you tell us your a “Green Hater” which we didn’t before, etc) so we will know if what we say will insult you.
Audrey@233
Or we could just have a TrollCall and call a Troll a Troll and stop feeding it.
Because just _saying_ that one isn’t arguing just to argue or is trying to be respectful or isn’t being condescending doesn’t make it true.
I think my catty comment early in the thread stands…it was something along the lines of
“if you’re actually interested in information/discussion rather than a public spat.”
Anyway, I wouldn’t spend a whole lot of energy trying to keep from insulting this individual. I’m sure s/he’s already insulted by your audacity in suggesting that s/he could be insulted by the likes of you/us.
FunnyDiva
OK, OK, I’ll only come back to read Dr. Steve’s comments, honest!
In response to Audrey @233 let me see if I can describe myself.
I am a lifetime Democratic voter. Prior to the 2006 election I argued in a thread here to the consternation of many that, if I were living in Ohio, I would not vote for Sherrod Brown in the senatorial race because of his vote on the Military Commissions Act. After the FISA debacle over at Needlenose I argued:
I’m interested in advancing my agenda. I believe my agenda will not be effectively served by third party politics. It will only be served when people who share my political beliefs come to dominate the Democratic Party.
> I am sorry to disagree with you.
Actually, you are disagreeing with some things I didn’t say.
> The Democrats are the spoilers of our
> democracy, as are the Republicans. It is not
> my roll any longer to try to get them to come
> to their senses. It is my roll to say what
> needs to be said to a public which needs to
> hear it.
Yes but it must be persuasive and speak to who needs to be won over, not just those who already see the Democrats for what they are.
> It was not Nader who cost the Democrats the
I didn’t say that. I voted for Nader then and still think I was right. What I was saying is that the Democrats were more worried about Nader than Bush because they wanted to make sure that a real opposition party did not emerge. Gore did beat Bush. He would have beaten him by a larger margin if he would have concentrated on opposing Bush instead of attacking Nader so much.
And I think that Nader’s 2004 run was a tactical mistake. At that time, the Democrats could be seen as a weak but better alternative. They look worse now but they are benefitting (and they well know it) from each new outrage of the Right.
> election in 2000. The Florida vote was
> tainted from day one and would have been
> tainted whether or not Nader ran. And when
> four independent newspapers sought and got a
> complete vote recount in Florida, Gore had
> won by tens of thousands.
I know all that – not relevant to what I’m saying.
> It was Gore’s responsibility to say, “I will
> not concede until every Florida vote is
> recounted with the scrutiny of the world
> looking on.”
Of course, not what I’m talking about.
> Analogies are never foolproof, but asking me
> to work within the Democratic Party is
> something like asking someone to build a
> narcotics rehabilitation center by raising
> money from a cocaine sale.
I’m saying run in the primary as a way to fight the Democratic leadership. Be open about being an independent. It’s a tactic, a way to get publicity. And if you get the nomination, continue to run against the Democratic leadership. The party and pundits will scream. The voters will probably like it.
Or don’t run in the primary. My main point is that some people think like what you assume I was saying. My point was you have deal with that rather than just saying it’s wrong. Of course it’s wrong but if those people vote against you, you lose. The press will continue the stereotyped corporate-partisan work they’ve done. Running in the Democratic primary as an independent (pay enough lip service to satisfy any legal requirements and be open about everything else) is one possible tactic.
I don’t know the answer but I suspect it might involve something like fostering factionalism in the Democratic Party. We’re going to need those people and they won’t come over if they’re continually attacked as dupes.
You’ve lost patience with the Democrats but a huge number of people think the Rahm wing would still be better than Bush. They will view ANY third party attempt as helping the Republicans. The Democratic party is not going to sit still and let you rebut that. They have an artifical hold on most of the voters we need. Why let them exploit that in peace?
Berner Saunders success was the result of long work in local conditions. Dr. Porter doesn’t have time to be mayor for a few terms. The Democratic Party base is really upset with its leadership. They can be peeled off but they have to believe it won’t benefit the Rs. Running in the primary is one way it might work. There must be plenty of others.
CMike @ 235
Then, in the interest of civil discourse, why the antagonism? If you don’t think an independent should/could win, well that’s fine. But discussing your “agenda” is not why we’re here. If you must talk about it, sneering and denigrating are probably more likely to draw snark and insults than just stating your position–the former is far less likely to convert anyone to your position, IMO. It’s unnecessary.
Unless as FunnyDiva pointed out, it’s your intention to disrupt and annoy.
Benjamin Rahn @ 135
Dear Ben,
Thank you. I know how much pressure must have been placed on you today. I am sorry for that. You have my gratitude for your courtesy to me and my pledge to remain on the side of progressive, honest government for as long as I am around.
Steve
nomolos @ 138
Let’s get something clear. I am not going to set up any borders anywhere. I am merely proposing the we offer our protective services to the Iraqis for 6 months so that they can set up sanctuary zones of autonomy where all of their own people are safe from violence.
We owe that much to them having destroyed so much of their society and been responsible for killing so many of their people. We also owe some kind of orderly transition out of this mess to our own troops.
Had you read my analysis of this mess, you would know the roll I believe colonialism has played in it. My proposal would give the Iraqis some time to decide their own structure and form of government.
For you to prefer the kind of slaughter to which you refer if we pull away precipitously is the worse kind of colonial arrogance and neglect. I opposed this war from day one, but now that the mess has been created, to serve an slogan without thinking of its repercussions is irresponsible, and we have had a belly full of irresponsible governance.
john in sacramento @ 147
Thank you for supporting integrity.
Steve
nomolos @ 151
I think expecting civil discourse rather than civil war is in the area of bush reality.
You may be right in thinking that civil war will win out over civility, but in the immediate time span before us, I will opt for a way out of Iraq which encourages at least a chance for civility to prevail.
Funnydiva2002 @ 156
Thank you so much for your faith in my mission. I think the way to do what you suggest is simply to give directly to the candidates of your choice.
I intend to make that happen by re-configuring the contribution page of my website (www.porter4congress.com) shortly so that the “middle man” between your contributions and my campaign is not Act Blue but an agency which can accomplish the feat without violating someone’s rules.
Beyond that, it is imperative that progressives like me be able to gain the financial support of contributors like you as opposed to the special interest which have gained the ownership of our government.
Campaigns like mine are truly partnerships of the average citizen. Together we can breathe fresh, honest air into a system which is now choked with partisanship and the influence of privilege and wealth.
Steve
Sandman @ 161
I am not surprised by that. And what does it tell us?
Many thanks.
Steve
selise @ 174
Thank you. As I have said, my webmaster will re-configure the contribution page of my website (www.porter4congress.com) so that online contributions can be made both safely and without such controversy.
I expect this to be done fairly rapidly.
Steve
Howie, Thanks so much for sticking around and doing this, especially considering the snags. :)
Siun @ 175
Given the mess Bush and his supporters on both sides of the aisle have created, a precipitous withdrawal with no attempt to provide safe haven for the various Iraqi sects which have suffered immeasurable would be the worst form of colonial abandonment for the Iraqis and for the security of our own forces.
My proposal addresses this. Yours does not.
Audrey @ 245
Seconded. Incredible dedication.
I think Dr. Steve and Howie have raised the bar for these threads to incredibly high new heights!
FunnyD
Audrey @ 245
I really wish I could be finishing a post at DWT about the Republicans trying to steal the 2008 presidential. At least I have a good post about Jane’s poodles on my site to hold people over ’til I’m done here.
And thank YOU, Dr. Porter for your tenacity! Others have been notified that you’re still responding. I think that’s awesome. Hehe. If this is any indication of the type of congressmember you’d be, I HOPE YOU WIN!
*G*
Audrey @237,
Granted, I’m not fit company for a tea party. Why don’t you just ignore me.
HAZmaq @ 180
Well said. I hope I can fit the bill.
Steve
howieklein @ 248
Thanks for the sacrifice. Shoot us a linky early in a thread when it’s finished and up. We all want, we all NEED to know how to stop any theft of the 2008 presidential.
FunnyD
Funnydiva2002 @ 247
They’ve done a great job. The only other time I recall this happening was when John Dean was here. But this is special because of the difficulties.
howieklein @ 248
I’m sure it will. (The page is loading now.) I hope you know we’d go the distance for you, Howie. The work you do is so important.
Thanks, again.
Cmike:
ironically, it was good sport to have a spirited defender of mainline (D) orthodoxy around.
He’s gone 10 rounds against some skilled sparring.
dmac @ 182
Iraq and Yugoslavia are not identical situations, but they have much in common.
First of all, to even speak about an “Iraq” is a kind of historical misnomer. Iraq was a creation of Britain and France at the end of WW I, principally to secure oil access for them. Iraq was a kingdom ruled by Britain until well after WW II. The kingdom fell in 1958 and after a series of military coups, was taken over by Saddam in 1968. He ruled until our invasion.
The region has experienced conflict between Kurdish, Sunni, and Shiite sects for many, many years. Those conflicts were kept at bay, albeit with great cruelty by Saddam, just as Tito held the separate factions of Yugoslavia together under his dictatorship, albeit with less cruelty.
A plan to withdraw which allows for the hostilities between sects to be at least diminished is hardly colonialistic. It is the opposite, and it will give the Iraqis a chance to do with their nation what they wish. Also, it is of importance to note that the Kurds have already gained a measure of constitutional autonomy and separation.
sporkovat @ 254
I dunno…I always get more out of an honest, good-faith discussion. But the Lake has so much of that that I guess a Saturday Afternoon sparring match won’t hurt much.
See ya upstairs, Sporky?
FunnyD
dmac @ 191
No one is displacing anyone. My proposal is to establish autonomous zones where people can be safe. No one has to move anywhere. They would have the option to move to areas where their own sects would be in control.
What is your alternative, to pull out and throw all of the Iraqis to the wolves, be they wolves of another Iraqi sect or of outside terrorists? How do you square that policy with any act of kindness or rationality.
Look at the history of the area and re-think your opposition. Or at the very least, offer a plan of your own which is both realistic and humane.
SeamusD @ 198
You may be interested to know that I speak regularly with many people from the Middle East who represent most of the present nations there. They to a person have acknowledged the reasonableness and historical accuracy of my position. To say that a plan for a safe and humane withdrawal from Iraq is a product of our present Pentagon is an absurdity on the face of it.
And to comment on your comment specifically, how long could the “people of Iraq” have been doing anything if there WAS no Iraq until the Kingdom was set up less than 90 years ago and ruled by England until well after the Second World War?
How do you explain the continual slaughter between Iraqi sects without acknowledging some kind of hostility between them?
And most of all, what is YOUR plan for a humane end to this madness?
Funnydiva2002 @ 204
Dear FunnyDiva,
You need not apologize for anything, my love. I am profoundly grateful for your comments and support. More than I can express.
Steve
howieklein @ 208
Because Nader did NOT cause anyone any election. Florida went for Gore even with Nader in the race. An honest ballot count would have established that and did, in fact, establish it later on.
Don’t blame Nader for standing up for his principles. Disagree with him if you care to, but it’s a hell of a stretch to tell someone to go away and hide because someone else didn’t stand up for himself and his voters.
I repeat, the blasphemy to our democracy has been committed overwhelmingly by the two major parties, both of which stand for government by special interest.
And if one really wants to assign blame, the final blame belongs to the voters who have allow it to happen.
Mr. Shakespeare said it best. “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
Dr Steve @ 255 and 257.
Well done. You’ve clearly done your homework in drafting your Iraq withdrawal plan. I’ve been struggling in my own mind with “US, get the F out NOW” and “Oh, yeah? So the violent and powerhungry tribal leaders can slaughter everyone else who wants only to raise their children and tend their shops in peace?”
Unfortunately, even under your plan some amount of displacement will be inevitable. Hopefully not on a huge scale or over huge distances, but there will surely need to be some. Might you and your ME resources be thinking that through more?
Also, is there any way to get this plan some meaningful attention now? I don’t know how to put that very well…it just seems like the months between now and the election and you taking your seat in DC are very very long indeed.
Best,
FunnyDiva
sporkovat @ 254
That was very gracious of you Sporkovat.
CMike @ 219
It is my contention that the processes of election practices by both major parties is dependent upon special interest politics. I can’t answer for the ownership of every Democrat, but for God’s sake google up the references and see for yourself. The contributions are on Vote Smart, CQ Moneyline, and Open Secrets, to name three sources.
If you want to support the kind of government the major parties represent, go ahead. I can’t do it any longer.
In 2006 the Democrats were elected to end the war. They took impeachment off the table and thereby prolonged the war, ultimately giving Bush everything for which he asked. The excuses to avoid impeachment were lame with a capital “L.” It IS the nation’s business. There IS NO WAY to know a final impeachment vote until the evidence has been presented under oath. Avoiding accountability for the possible high crimes and misdemeanors of the Bush Executive Branch is yet another death blow to the trust which must exist between the governed and the government in our democracy.
So one must ask what the real reason was. Could it have been to prolong the war with “feigned” opposition so that greater gains might be made in 2008–gains which would result in more favorable government for the special interests which control the Democratic Party? If so, is that not using the blood of our kids and innocent Iraqis for the political benefit of the powerful?
Can I prove that? Of course not. But do I feel it is an explanation of what has transpired in the last year? How can anyone not admit it as a possibility. And having admitted it as a possibility, I then asked myself if I could participate in such a possibility. The answer was no. Clearly no. No for myself. I did not answer for you or the person down the street. Just for myself, and I acted accordingly.
A Democratic Congress has given us nothing of substance but an increase in the minimum wage. Sorry, but that is not the Party to which I can any longer give my heart.
steven porter @ 258
for me, it’s more an issue of that it’s not my call – it should be up to iraqis… because they 1) have the right to determine their own future, 2) are more likely to know what will work in their own country, with their own people than any american. the iraqis are the ones who have to live (far more than any of us) with the consequences of their choices.
i’d like a foreign policy that, with regard to iraq, takes it’s direction from the will of the iraqi people. not from what any american thinks is what they should do.
if iraqis want the future you’ve outlined, i’m all for supporting that. i just think we should ask them what they want us to do. that, i think, is the very least we owe them…
again… this isn’t only a moral imperative – it’s also, i think, a pratical one. because any (even the best) plan imposed from the outside (especially, now, by the usa) will be seen by iraqis as illegitimate.. and that will make it harder (impossible?) for the plan to succeed.
these ideas are expressed much better, than i’m capable of, by stephen kizner.
p.s. thanks again to both steve and howie for sticking around and answering so many questions. you guys are the best!
howieklein @ 263
And that truly saddens me. I’m not one to support independents easily, but given the circumstances where one after another of our “good guys” gives in to pressure, I can completely understand your position and your candidacy. I know you will do good work no matter which “banner” you run with.
Funnydiva2002 @ 261
Dear FunnyDiva,
Just to campaign on the issues and repeat it over and over. And if I ever do get to Congress, to repeat with an ever louder voice.
Steve
selise @ 264
I fear that your position might lead to great slaughter.
Thank you for your kind words. And thank you, Jane and Howie, for setting this up and enduring the controversy. And thank you, Ben, for your graciousness and for all the help you provided me in 2006.
And to everyone of you who participated today, thank you, too, now matter what your comments, pro or con.
It was a pleasure to be with you.
I will try to stay in touch via my website and blogs, and perhaps even another of our chats, if Jane and Howie can recover.
Steve
Howie and Dr. Steve,
Back from driving my kid’s car over to a shop 20 miles away, shopping and coming home – and you guys are still hashing it out with the pups here. Bravo!
Howie, if you don’t get to helping me figure out why Diane’s ActBlue page isn’t coming up at AK-01 until tomorrow, I understand.
Thanks for spending so much time with us today, Steve– an FDL record; and very much appreciated. Please keep us abreast of the developments in PA-03. We didn’t even get a chance to talk much about one of the most odious of the rubber stamp Republicans– Phil English. I hope we can have you on again, soon.
:) Thanks so much for being here, Steve. Really appreciate the chance to talk to you. God Bless and good luck. Hope to see you again.
PS: Great job Howie!! You rock! :)
howieklein @ 270
Thank you, howie, for all your efforts.
This is something that I have been pushing for a while now.
That is, to gain power in the Parliament, what we need to do is to get a few Senators elected so that THEY HOLD THE BALANCE OF POWER !!.
In Australia it was a strategy conceived and enacted in the 70’s by a Politician named Don Chipp. He formed a political Party (named the Democrats ironically) for the sole reason of getting members elected into the Senate and holding the balance of power in the Parliament and to use his/their slogan at the time “to keep the Bastards honest”.
It worked.
You/we only need to get a few Senators elected to make this a success.
No Legislation can get passed unless it goes through both Houses of Parliament, and if you have the 3 or 4 Members (or whatever number is needed) that hold the deciding votes you can force these corrupt rubber stamping clowns into action.
Please get behind the Dr. Steven Porter.
Independence from these “special interest groups” and Corperations in Parliament can only be a good thing.
Hello Steve, I’m probably too late to the party for an answer but I’ll ask the questions anyway…
I have just been reading the “About Steve” section on your website regarding your views, policy’s and what you would like to do or see done by the government.
I don’t remember reading anything about the minimum wage and would like to ask you, do you have any thoughts or intended policy regarding the minimum wage? and if so, do you believe it should be changed?
I also noticed in the same section of your website under the “Economy” heading you listed defence contracts as a way to bring jobs into your area.
I would like to ask you, why is the Defence Industry highlighted? I would have thought that such a large industry built on the farcical wars we see under the Bush administration has more than it’s fair share of Government contracts and any money sunk into that bottomless pit could be better spent in far more worthwhile projects, including but most certainly not limited too, Health and Education.
I am an Australian and if there is one thing that many people outside the US don’t get, is how can the richest nation on Earth can pay such a miserable and miserly minimum wage to it’s workers?
I know that some of these people do get tips which supplement their wage but the last time I researched the subject I found it was only about 2 percent of the people on Min. wage do indeed receive Tips. $5.15 (or has it gone up since I last checked?) is an absolute disgrace and the US should be embarrassed by such a paltry sum.
I don’t believe ANY executive is worth the Hundreds of Millions of Dollars they are paid by I do believe that $5.15 an hour is an almost criminal amount to pay any worker especially in the wealthiest nation.
Raise the minimum wage to at least a livable amount and please stop pouring Taxpayers money into the already overflowing coffers of the Defence Industry and you may have another supporter.
Thanks.
Siun @ 175
Actually it is the “Iraqi government”, the U.S. Government, and the oil companies of the occupying forces that desire a “unified Iraq”. They have been opposed to a tripartite division of Iraq and an equal division of oil revenues for some time. There is substantial support for large scale regional autonomy in the Parliament…but that is suppressed by the Federal leadership that was largely imposed by the U.S. It’s going to happen…the US is simply incapable of preventing it.
The Brits are pulling out of the Southern Provinces and the Shiite militias are already battling ovcer control there. And the “reduction of violence in Baghdad” is largely the result of the Mahdi Army’s silent hand.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..AjEm2s0NUE
I think Dr. Porter simply realizes that this is what will evolve to when the US military leaves. I can’t conceive of autonomous regions offering oil contracts to “Coalition” bidders that don’t offer competitive bids vis-a-vis countries like Russia, China, or Germany. But the Centralized Government is under great pressure to do so because they know that the Federal system requires cooperation with the United States.
And where will the lines be drawn? That would have to be the result of either negotiation between the different groups of Iraqis or through conflict, whether or not we pull out.
As noted above, it’s the imposition of force to create a false and arbitrary system that is feuling the violence.
And Dr. Porter is absolutely correct in his point that Al Qaida will lose any local support once the US occupation is ended. They are only viewed as being “allies” pragmatically in that battle, and impediments to local control otherwise.
Wess @ 274
Good morning. I will try to answer your questions on the minimum wage and on defense revenue for PA-03.
I am in favor of wages for all workers which allow them to live out of poverty. The recent raise in the US minimum wage was insufficient to do that, but at least a step toward it. My position is one which tempers the laissez-faire attitude of many free-market thinkers with a social and historical reality. The reality is that sub-standard economic life sooner or later leads to social unrest and in the long run destroys the very people who originally profit from it. When the royalty of France responded to the cries of the French for bread by saying, “Let them eat cake,” they set in motion the violence which led to their own overthrow. We see this time and again throughout human history. The answer I believe is to temper the free market penchant for greed with social responsibility. In the long run, being our brothers’ keeper is not just a moral imperative, it is also a practical one.
As to defense income in PA-03, this district once thrived on the steel and tool industries. I am not a proponent of unneeded military spending, but some defense spending is required of most nations, particularly ours, given the conflicts in the world with which we must deal. My recipe for economic revitalization in PA-03 simply says to our government, “If you must spend money on defense, spend it at home to the benefit of your own workers and your own industries rather than outsourcing the jobs.” I hold this position for another reason beyond the economics of it. I feel a little ill-at-ease when sensitive military equipment is produced in a nation which might use it against us down the road. It makes little sense to have China make a computer chip for a US missile guidance system, for example, when that chip might end up in a missile directed at the US. I am not saying that this would automatically happen, but why gamble when US workers need the work? Again, there are lessons in history to bear out my concern. Many a US soldier has been killed by a bullet fired from an enemies gun which has “Made in the USA” stamped on its cartridge.