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	<title>Comments on: Yet Another Heckuva Job</title>
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		<title>By: Splash</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-904329</link>
		<dc:creator>Splash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-904329</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Liberal vs. conservative media bias? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wrong frame.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The media has a PRO-CORPORATE BIAS, perfectly illustrated here. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In other words, the media is as liberal as the corporations that own it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberal vs. conservative media bias? </p>
<p>Wrong frame.</p>
<p>The media has a PRO-CORPORATE BIAS, perfectly illustrated here. </p>
<p>In other words, the media is as liberal as the corporations that own it.</p>
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		<title>By: emal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-904102</link>
		<dc:creator>emal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wordsmith @ 139&lt;br /&gt;
My bad…I knew it was Murray and didn’t even realize I had typed in Crandall the whole damn time even after rereading it….talk about a senior moment x10. Anyway thanks for correcting that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for the link to Ellen Smith, thank you, but in hindsight (and with a fresh night’s sleep)I believe it was Kathy Snyder’s blog post Tula linked to and described her thoughts as she witnessed television coverage where Murray was allowing media into the mine,(a definite no no) for reasons that have become sadly all too clear.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wordsmith @ 139<br />
My bad…I knew it was Murray and didn’t even realize I had typed in Crandall the whole damn time even after rereading it….talk about a senior moment x10. Anyway thanks for correcting that.</p>
<p>As for the link to Ellen Smith, thank you, but in hindsight (and with a fresh night’s sleep)I believe it was Kathy Snyder’s blog post Tula linked to and described her thoughts as she witnessed television coverage where Murray was allowing media into the mine,(a definite no no) for reasons that have become sadly all too clear.</p>
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		<title>By: woodguy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903830</link>
		<dc:creator>woodguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903830</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve asked this question on a few blogs, so forgive me for missing the answer if it’s been provided by someone somewhere. Just how much are Murray’s employees paid per hour and what benefits are they provided for risking their lives daily to make Murray a wealthy man? And more to the point, don’t you think in all the repetitive coverage and endless tape looping that some “journalist” might have asked this question? I think that the answer to this would tell us all alot about the exploitation that goes on in the name of “free enterprise”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just asking.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane,</p>
<p>I’ve asked this question on a few blogs, so forgive me for missing the answer if it’s been provided by someone somewhere. Just how much are Murray’s employees paid per hour and what benefits are they provided for risking their lives daily to make Murray a wealthy man? And more to the point, don’t you think in all the repetitive coverage and endless tape looping that some “journalist” might have asked this question? I think that the answer to this would tell us all alot about the exploitation that goes on in the name of “free enterprise”. </p>
<p>Just asking.</p>
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		<title>By: jonerik</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903332</link>
		<dc:creator>jonerik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 03:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are a lot of holes in the media coverage of this mine collapse especially involvement of the families. There have been many mine rescue stories I’ve listened to in my 57 years in this country and I’ve never heard a story like this basically narrated by the mine owner. I’m very very suspicious when I hear said mine owner is sequestering the families of the miners from whom nothing has been heard in what ten days now? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I enjoy reading the thread of comments above especially responding to Snarkassandra. If there is a future to journalism which does not entail being a Republican party apparatchik which the majority are today, like the Soviet Union, I hope Snarkassandra follows in the footsteps of journalists like Lincoln Steffens and in our time, Thomas Frank or Greg Pallast. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are seeing the devolution of what Thomas Frank wrote about almost ten years ago in his Baffler No. 9, “When Class Disappears.” Frank I think is one of our great writers on class aand culture warfare. In “When Class Disapears” Frank distills a lot of thought about the history of class and labor warfare in the US and the connection to reporting on such events.  His article focuses on the then  in process Detroit News and Free Press journalists’ strike against Knight-Ridder and Gannett press and some other labor actions then in process at A.E. Staley, a corn processing plant in Decatur Illinois. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Somebody above has already mentioned the obvious lack of union presence here. I wonder: is there a connection between the defeat and weakness or absence of journalists unions and the failure of unions in mining? or other industries? Stay tuned.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of holes in the media coverage of this mine collapse especially involvement of the families. There have been many mine rescue stories I’ve listened to in my 57 years in this country and I’ve never heard a story like this basically narrated by the mine owner. I’m very very suspicious when I hear said mine owner is sequestering the families of the miners from whom nothing has been heard in what ten days now? </p>
<p>I enjoy reading the thread of comments above especially responding to Snarkassandra. If there is a future to journalism which does not entail being a Republican party apparatchik which the majority are today, like the Soviet Union, I hope Snarkassandra follows in the footsteps of journalists like Lincoln Steffens and in our time, Thomas Frank or Greg Pallast. </p>
<p>We are seeing the devolution of what Thomas Frank wrote about almost ten years ago in his Baffler No. 9, “When Class Disappears.” Frank I think is one of our great writers on class aand culture warfare. In “When Class Disapears” Frank distills a lot of thought about the history of class and labor warfare in the US and the connection to reporting on such events.  His article focuses on the then  in process Detroit News and Free Press journalists’ strike against Knight-Ridder and Gannett press and some other labor actions then in process at A.E. Staley, a corn processing plant in Decatur Illinois. </p>
<p>Somebody above has already mentioned the obvious lack of union presence here. I wonder: is there a connection between the defeat and weakness or absence of journalists unions and the failure of unions in mining? or other industries? Stay tuned.</p>
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		<title>By: coltergeist</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903123</link>
		<dc:creator>coltergeist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-903123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I suspect that Murray was claiming it was an earthquake that caused the collapse because a “Mine Bump” is probably called a Mine Bump because it registers as a slight bump on nearby Richter Scales.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, the term Mine Bump is terribly misleading and sanitized, sort of like calling polution the externalities of production or civilian casualties in war collateral damage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People need to stop repeating the sanitized version.  The pressure from the mountain overhead causes the pillar of rock in the mine holding up the ceiling to rupture and in effect, explode.  If you compress a liter bottle of soda from the top and the bottom, it will rupture in the middle and spray soda out at high velocity.  It should be called a Support Pillar Explosion, because that is really what a Mine Bump is.  The support pillar(s) literally explode and shrapnel flies everywhere and the ceiling often collapse as well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that Murray was claiming it was an earthquake that caused the collapse because a “Mine Bump” is probably called a Mine Bump because it registers as a slight bump on nearby Richter Scales.  </p>
<p>Of course, the term Mine Bump is terribly misleading and sanitized, sort of like calling polution the externalities of production or civilian casualties in war collateral damage.</p>
<p>People need to stop repeating the sanitized version.  The pressure from the mountain overhead causes the pillar of rock in the mine holding up the ceiling to rupture and in effect, explode.  If you compress a liter bottle of soda from the top and the bottom, it will rupture in the middle and spray soda out at high velocity.  It should be called a Support Pillar Explosion, because that is really what a Mine Bump is.  The support pillar(s) literally explode and shrapnel flies everywhere and the ceiling often collapse as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Wordsmith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902979</link>
		<dc:creator>Wordsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902979</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902840&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;emal @ 130&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Couple of thoughts on this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First Crandall was the main spokesman and face of this ordeal. I was amazed that it wasn’t a gov’t official. Having said that, perhaps that was by design…as it put the clearly arrogant Crandall who craved the spotlight and “control” also in the line of fire for taking  responsibility and  being held accountable. It took that aspect a bit away from the gov’t agencies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Second-reminding us of a link from one of Tula’s post from that woman who was very knowledgeable and an expert in the area. This woman wrote about mining issues and mining safety (sorry I forgot her name).  Well she wrote about how awed and amazed that at one point against all the rules and regulations that she was aware of, Crandall allowed media and journalist to enter into the mine…she noted how dangerous, careless, and boneheaded that was. Who allowed that to happen? Especially in light of what happened yesterday with another collapse and the fact that 3 rescuers were killed and others injured, her concern was spot on. Again just who is in charge, running the operation,  and really concerned with everyone’s safety here?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thirdly. Sounds like there are many Heckuva jobs…Heckuva job Stickler, Heckuva job Crandall, and lastly Heckuva job Bushie for recess appointing another Heckuva job (that’d be Stickler)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, what a shame and tragedy here…and my heart goes out to those immediately affected by this.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think you’re referring to Murray.  Crandall Canyon is the name of the mine.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The video: If it’s the video I saw, it was with &lt;a href=&quot;http://leftistmoon.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/from-tragedy-to-tragedy-crandall-canyon-mine/&quot;&gt;Ellen Smith, editor of ‘Mine Safety &amp; Health News&lt;/a&gt;.’ If it’s not, then I’d like to see it. Orrrr….Kathy Snyder (who works with Ellen Smith at MSHNews) wrote on her blog that she was horrified that Murray had taken a reporter down into the mine. And the reporter, Gary Tuchman, didn’t have the sense to say no!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-902840"><em>emal @ 130</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Couple of thoughts on this.</p>
<p>First Crandall was the main spokesman and face of this ordeal. I was amazed that it wasn’t a gov’t official. Having said that, perhaps that was by design…as it put the clearly arrogant Crandall who craved the spotlight and “control” also in the line of fire for taking  responsibility and  being held accountable. It took that aspect a bit away from the gov’t agencies.</p>
<p>Second-reminding us of a link from one of Tula’s post from that woman who was very knowledgeable and an expert in the area. This woman wrote about mining issues and mining safety (sorry I forgot her name).  Well she wrote about how awed and amazed that at one point against all the rules and regulations that she was aware of, Crandall allowed media and journalist to enter into the mine…she noted how dangerous, careless, and boneheaded that was. Who allowed that to happen? Especially in light of what happened yesterday with another collapse and the fact that 3 rescuers were killed and others injured, her concern was spot on. Again just who is in charge, running the operation,  and really concerned with everyone’s safety here?</p>
<p>Thirdly. Sounds like there are many Heckuva jobs…Heckuva job Stickler, Heckuva job Crandall, and lastly Heckuva job Bushie for recess appointing another Heckuva job (that’d be Stickler)</p>
<p>Anyway, what a shame and tragedy here…and my heart goes out to those immediately affected by this.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think you’re referring to Murray.  Crandall Canyon is the name of the mine.</p>
<p>The video: If it’s the video I saw, it was with <a href="http://leftistmoon.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/from-tragedy-to-tragedy-crandall-canyon-mine/">Ellen Smith, editor of ‘Mine Safety &amp; Health News</a>.’ If it’s not, then I’d like to see it. Orrrr….Kathy Snyder (who works with Ellen Smith at MSHNews) wrote on her blog that she was horrified that Murray had taken a reporter down into the mine. And the reporter, Gary Tuchman, didn’t have the sense to say no!</p>
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		<title>By: Wordsmith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902967</link>
		<dc:creator>Wordsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902967</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902592&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;retirin’ in five @ 34&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902587&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;SnarKassandra @ 29&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Did they interview the miners’ friends?  Or people that were trapped in different mines in the past?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please forgive me and somebody bring me up to speed — have we heard from the families of the original miners, i.e, were they under-paid, illegal immigrants as I’ve seen proposed elsewehere?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has anyone answered?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve been following this from the beginning. The SLC Tribune, as well as the Deseret Morning News, but the TRIBUNE especially has done a magnificent job in reporting. By gawd - they should really get some kind of media prize.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Three of the original 6 are Mexican nationals. Some of the their family members do not speak English. Murray has not allowed access to the families and I think has cautioned them about speaking to the media. It was indeed evidenced by the news conference I was watching which Jane cites - where Bodie Allred was being asked questions and Murray would interject. (How fucking obvious was that, Miner Bob?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-902592"><em>retirin’ in five @ 34</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-902587"><em>SnarKassandra @ 29</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Did they interview the miners’ friends?  Or people that were trapped in different mines in the past?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Please forgive me and somebody bring me up to speed — have we heard from the families of the original miners, i.e, were they under-paid, illegal immigrants as I’ve seen proposed elsewehere?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Has anyone answered?</p>
<p>I’ve been following this from the beginning. The SLC Tribune, as well as the Deseret Morning News, but the TRIBUNE especially has done a magnificent job in reporting. By gawd &#8211; they should really get some kind of media prize.</p>
<p>Three of the original 6 are Mexican nationals. Some of the their family members do not speak English. Murray has not allowed access to the families and I think has cautioned them about speaking to the media. It was indeed evidenced by the news conference I was watching which Jane cites &#8211; where Bodie Allred was being asked questions and Murray would interject. (How fucking obvious was that, Miner Bob?)</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902921</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i am in coal country, and houses are built on top of mines………that is a fact. roads recede because of it…….and they build them back up, that is a fact………..i know miners and still don’t know it all, because they look at their work as just a  job and don’t talk about it…….it’s a job they need, so they don’t talk……..american coal, that it ends up murray owns, bought out a coal company here that closed……..bought all the equipment, and hired back a few people…….the union place that was here is gone……from what i heard, the equipment was worth more than the  employees&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am in coal country, and houses are built on top of mines………that is a fact. roads recede because of it…….and they build them back up, that is a fact………..i know miners and still don’t know it all, because they look at their work as just a  job and don’t talk about it…….it’s a job they need, so they don’t talk……..american coal, that it ends up murray owns, bought out a coal company here that closed……..bought all the equipment, and hired back a few people…….the union place that was here is gone……from what i heard, the equipment was worth more than the  employees</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Fragments</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902898</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Fragments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902898</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902609&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;P J Evans @ 49&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dave Fragments @ 36&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The pillars are pulled out as the miners retreat and the mine collapses all at once. That’s to prevent a huge suburban housing development from subsiding in 15, 20, 30 years in the future.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In some areas, they might build houses on top of mines. This isn’t one of them. The coal is lignite, barely better than peat, and they had an entire f*cking mountain sitting on pillars of it. That’s not a real good idea, right there.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree. I’ve actually held lignite coal in my hands and It’s not strong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-902609"><em>P J Evans @ 49</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Dave Fragments @ 36</p>
<blockquote><p>The pillars are pulled out as the miners retreat and the mine collapses all at once. That’s to prevent a huge suburban housing development from subsiding in 15, 20, 30 years in the future.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In some areas, they might build houses on top of mines. This isn’t one of them. The coal is lignite, barely better than peat, and they had an entire f*cking mountain sitting on pillars of it. That’s not a real good idea, right there.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree. I’ve actually held lignite coal in my hands and It’s not strong.</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902882</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/yet-another-heckuva-job/#comment-902882</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thank you mike at 73&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you mike at 73</p>
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