Arianna makes a very good point about the consequences of the media’s credulity when it came to Bob Murray’s hokey benevolent grandpa act:
What if, instead of giving endless airtime to Bob Murray, they had brought on some of the experts we saw last night and asked them questions about the chances of another collapse occurring? What if they had given us Professor Larry Grayson, who was interviewed last night by Dan Abrams on MSNBC, and other experts who could have contradicted once and for all Murray’s assertion that the company had not been doing retreat mining where the original collapse had occurred? What if they had gotten Stickler on the record on this, and had him definitely say whether or not Murray was lying when he repeatedly denied the dangerous technique was being used in the Crandall Canyon Mine?
What if they gave as much airtime to the seismologists denying that the collapse was the result of an earthquake as they gave to Murray who kept repeating the bogus (and responsibility-avoiding) claim that it was an earthquake, a natural disaster, an act of god?
Might things have turned out differently? We’ll never know. But we do know that a number of miners – perhaps as many as a dozen — had asked to be moved to a different part of the rescue operation out of fear for their safety. And that Murray had abruptly pulled Bodee Allred, the Crandall mine’s safety director (and the cousin of one of the missing miners), away from the microphones when the questions Allred was being asked veered too close to the bone for Murray’s comfort.
Here’s a question for the media: Since when do the owners of mines — especially owners who have been fined millions of dollars for numerous safety violations — set the news agenda?
All along, Murray called the shots and he wrote the media’s script for them. There was much to suggest that his agenda was not mine safety but rather Ass Covering 101 from the time the initial collapse happened. Had the media been more skeptical, probed a bit deeper, perhaps Murray and Stickler would have been pressured out of their roles as decision makers and the deaths last night might have been prevented. We’ll never know, but it’s clear Our Elite Media have learned nothing from the lessons of Michael Brown.
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zed?
OK, I’ll tell downstairs.
But we’re having a great discussion, so I’m hoping that thread will go on for awhile longer.
FunnyD
Funnydiva2002 @ 2
Charles had to leave, I told him I’d put up a post when he had to go and get him off the hook. But it is still a good discussion.
The science of seismology is not an inexact one. I finally heard Dan Abram get that point last night when some of the “hired guns” that MSNBC had on made that point about 10 times.
Murray is a prime example of why the republicans fear organized labor; it will hold them accountable in a big way… one that the media seems to fear to do anymore. Murray’s dissembling denials of responsibility were classic republican-speak: “Gawd awmighty dun it, an who’re we to question Him?”.
It’s been the main excuse for every damn thing from Iraq (Preznit Poopypants: “Gawd wants’em to be Free or tortured tryin’”) to the debates… “Please raise your opposable thumb if you do not believe in Evolution”.
Responsibility and Accountability? Not in America anymore. It’s their fault —–> over there ——>
Damned foul-mouthed fem blogs have no respect for real reporters. Just finger-pointing dfh’s. (End sarcasm.) Jane!
Jane Hamsher @ 3
Yeah, just got through all those comments and figured that out. Thanks for arranging that. Too bad he didn’t have more time. But, then, who has enough time for all the questions we still have about the whole fiasco? It was a great opportunity to hear from someone with a lot of political “cred.”
FunnyD
Off to read the post now…
nice shoutout to FDL on the HuffPost website, right at the top, ‘above the fold’…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
And I thought all those propped up skyscrapers in “Idiocracy” were a joke.
I did a few hours of research immediately after the Sago mine disaster and learned from government documents that dozens of mine safety rules had gone through the very slow, very lengthy administrative procedure act process of promulgation, public comment etc., and just – just prior to enactment, and just after the 2000 election, most were pulled due to “priority changes” (or words to that effect) would not in fact become law regardless of the low cost of implementation for some of them. Why? Because Bush’s newly appointed head of MHSA – an industry insider and no friend of labor determined that it would impede the ability to put profit ahead of people.
As I recall, it was posting by Justin Rood at Talkingpointsmemo that lead me to the proper search area that allowed me to do the research.
Is there any doubt left that this administration could care less about the effects of unbridled, unfettered capitalism?
Heck of a job Bushie! And in 24 hours, the lazy corporate media will spend all its time discussing the upcoming wedding of Jenna.
Now if they’d put Joe Hazelwood in charge of the press coverage of the Exxon Valdez, the American public would have had a better understanding of how much it was an act of God…
Jane your on top of things do not let up. Whats next?
we need a call to our own mine experts
I couldn’t watch the coverage on CNN anymore – they would show Murray just spouting off with his ‘uncle grandpa’ act… with no response from someone who was reality-based…
Hmm, wonder just why the corporate owned “Elite Media” would have a vested interest in forwarding the agenda of (and covering for) the of the Bush junta and their cronies?
You know, we should have heard from Dem leaders on this already. This just calls out for responsible oversight rule changes
It’s a waste of time to think that the corporatist media will ever do other than what they’ve been doing.
Lie.
It’s up to us bloggers to shine the hard, cold light of truth on the activities of murderous criminals such as Murray.
He needs to got to jail for a long time. And if….as I suspect there are no laws on the books to do that. Then….
Madame Speaker and ‘Fitin’ Harry Reid need to get off their well-tailored butts and….
Fucking pass some!
And no…
I don’t care if Mr. Decider vetoes same. Won’t matter it’ll just be another nail in the coffin of ‘conservatism’.
We need to make the maximum amount of noise about this. Mine safety, rather the non-existence of same, encapsulates much of what is wrong in our nation today.
Let’s blogswarm this.
It took me about 10 seconds to figure out that this guy was covering his ass, Why did it take another collapse and 3 more dead for the reporters to get a clue?
Are they stupid or in cahoots?
Baghdad Bob. Utah Bob. Whatever.
Time for more deregulation.
And it’s Clinton’s fault.
A South Florida planning board voted today to send back to Congress a $10 million earmark for an Interstate 75 interchange that would benefit a Florida developer who is also a major contributor to Alaska Rep. Don Young.
Heckuva job, Donnie…
brianm0122 @ 17
Yes.
Another example of simple answers to simple questions. And it’s a two-fer!
brianm0122 @ 17
Scared. He snapped at them. It’s his land, and he would have hauled them off of it.
what’s it gonna take for the MSM to put these safety violations into the proper light? Is the damn mineshaft gonna have to implode on Wolf Blitzer on prime time for the people to see what corporate greed has wrought?
brianm0122 @ 17
It seemed to me that in the beginning, some reporters were (mildly) questioning the earthquake theory. When they did, Murray yelled at them and kept repeating the lie chimpCo style. Either the reporters were scared, brainwashed, or got calls from Murray’s lawyers but last weekend, they accepted the earthquake theory and were repeating it as fact until today when some started to question it again.
This Murray fellow is the mining equivalent of Ken Lay. Looks just like him, too.
twolf1 @ 23
He definitely was copping the ChimpCo. act. And you had to be pretty much of a monkey to buy it.
twolf1 @ 23
Why so afraid? This is crazy. I mean this is just bugf*cking crazy. If anything, threats and bluster should make the journalists even *more* interested in finding out what he’s got to hide.
‘Scuse me while I go pound my head on my desk some more…
This may sound dumb, but here goes.
I plan to be a journalist. So people have told me I should study liberal arts in college and also journalism. I am guessing that most of the people in the “media” studied also. Didn’t anyone teach them they should look at more than one side of a story? Didn’t somebody teach them to not just copy down what one person said? It doesn’t look all that hard.
SnarKassandra @ 27
My guess is that their focus was much more on the trapped miners than on the cause.
raven @ 28
Did they interview the miners’ friends? Or people that were trapped in different mines in the past?
I feel so…what’s the term…”post-Soviet”.
SnarKassandra @ 27
Pardon me for being old and forgetful but wayyyyy back in 9th grade I took a journalism class and worked on the school paper. My teacher told us the most important thing a reporter needs to remember when working on a story is the 5 ‘W’s
Who
What
When
Where
Why.
Ask Tweety or Punkin Head if they remember this basic tenant.
Ps.
I still remember the guy’s name, Mr. Weatherall.
An exceptional teacher if I remember it.
brianm0122 @ 17
The media are braindead when it comes to republicons like Murray. After all, if they were to report on his utter bullshit and call him out on it, with you know, actual reportage, they might not get invited to eat at the Murray Energy Catering truck or drink Murray Energy bottled water up there in the wastelands of Utah and then find themselves with no “access” to the story.
Let’s see here, hmmmmm, a Pulitzer or a Pastrami sandwich. Unfortunately, most “reporters” these days go for the Pastrami Sandwich.
steeelthing @ 22
CNN is already complicit in the ongoing violations during the rescue, having participated in a photo-op deep in the mine when a previous, but not fatal, “seismic event” occurred. Don’t look to them for help on this.
Where are our Democratic leaders, speaking out against the criminal violations occurring, and ongoing, at this mine? Why is Bush’s crony running the media operation for Murray, if he’s supposed to investigate what happened? There’s entirely too much backscratching going on here, and the American people will see it if Democrats point it out.
My heart is with the families of the dead, injured, and trapped. But this drama is being spun outrageously by TradMed for its corporate allies: where are those who speak for The People?
SnarKassandra @ 29
Please forgive me and somebody bring me up to speed — have we heard from the families of the original miners, i.e, were they under-paid, illegal immigrants as I’ve seen proposed elsewehere?
from jane’s original post:
“. . .perhaps Murray and Stickler would have been pressured out of their roles as decision makers and the deaths last night might have been prevented. . .”
first, thanks, jane and tula and scare-
crow, i think this f.d.l. coverage of
the crandall canyon mine pillar collapse
has been first rate.
but i do have to point out — at least in
my opinion — i would have kept digging
for these missing six men, without regard
to who was in charge, or talking smack to
the press. . .
i reluctantly accept the notion that
the equasion changed with three new deaths
last night — but i can guarantee you that
all the rescue workers, and government
inspectors, were quite fully-aware of
just how dangerous this rescue/recovery
work was going to be.
you could see it in the
bulging, and bending,
undulatiuons of what should
have been arrow straight
drift ribs, and backs. . .
and, you could see it in their eyes.
what an experienced miner sees in the
seam, s/he remembers — they’ve likely seen
conditions like this before — and i am
reasonably sure, they chose freely to
push forward. volunteered, in fact.
you may question the wisdom of that
decision, but — were it my brother
down there, or even one of my former
fellow-miners — i’d likely choose to
press forward, too.
there is a code.
leave no one behind. and i am
talking about those who do the actual
work — the miners — not the suits. . .
we look for each other.
until the brass is found, no
recovery effort is over.
we’d go look. eventually, we’d go
on our own, if need be. . .
otherwise, a truly-great piece!
p e a c e
– brass no. 4733
I know some MSHA employees.
These reporters do not even know the right question to ask to get a sensible answer about mining.
1) If you assumed the rescue effort was safe, you’re wrong. It never was safe. It was always dangerous. That’s why 12 miners asked not to work where they were digging and stayed in safe areas of the mine. They were afraid. They are human, you know.
2) If you have a bad accident with your car, OR if your house is robbed, Don’t you feel naturally apprehensive about driving again or returning home? That’s perfectly normal fear. It’s built into the human psyche.
3) If you take an ice cream sandwich and put it on a brick and then set another brick on the ice cream sandwich, it squishes. That’s what is happening to this mountain. The pillars supporting the mine are the ice cream sandwich. Ice cream squishes but stone pillars explode, violently. The two bricks are the mountain above and below the mine. Does this sound safe? There isn’t a miner in the world that doesn’t know this.
4) To Bob Murray’s credit, he’s never left the mine. He’s inside the mine trying to do something. The miners know better than anyone outside the mine that the 6 miners might not be alive. These actions don’t exonerate Murray, but they are to his credit.
5) Murray will get his due when this is all done.
6) Retreat mining is common. Back here in the Eastern USA, retreat mining is used to prevent mine subsidence. The pillars are pulled out as the miners retreat and the mine collapses all at once. That’s to prevent a huge suburban housing development from subsiding in 15, 20, 30 years in the future. It is dangerous. But to make a judgement on how “unsafe” it is, you have to know if it has killed anyone else. I don’t know that and I won’t guess.
7) I heard idiocy questions of where were the principals all last night. I can tell you that they were sitting in a room debriefing MSHA and safety officials about the accident. That’s what you do. You take all the principals aside and debrief to determine the facts. You don’t walk out in front of the press without knowing the entire story (or at least knowing what you don’t know).
Think about this as a fire drill. What is a good fire drill?
How fast does everyone leave? Do they all leave? Do they go to the proper safe areas? Are they all there? Did they run? Did they shut down their equipment? DId they grab jackets? Are they absent today? Sick today?
I hope that gives y’all a better idea of what debrief means.
Didn’t the repubs claim they are the law and order party? Are fines and violations OK with them?
SnarKassandra,
Journalists are often better writers than investigators. My advice would be to continue learning to write – you can already do that rather well – but study the discipline of research while you’re in college. Courses in logic seem to have been missed by most of our journalists, too. You are excellent at asking straightforward, honest questions, which won’t get you promotions at most MSM outlets, but bodes well for your future.
In case this hasn’t been posted on today’s previous threads, here is good – and very important – news from Raw Story: Secret spy court orders Bush to respond to request for information on secret ruling
SnarKassandra @ 29
I guess I was sort of asking, I couldn’t take the dude so I just tuned it out. My grandfather spent 40 years in the mines in Southern Illinois, his father was killed there the day WWI started.
What if we had, you know, something like a bunch of people that went on television and radio and wrote articles for magazines and newspapers that were skeptical of corporate/political power aand asked real questions? We could call it, say the media.
That would be cool.
Maybe they could even put out information over them there intertubes thingies.
Nahhhhh.
SnarKassandra @ 27
Hi, SnarK-y one.
My dear, you very, very seldom, if ever, sound dumb, and this isn’t one of those times.
Yes, many of these journalists were probably taught to be good reporters. Unfortunately, the working world provides other, often more powerful lessons in self-preservation (mortgage/rent paying, career keeping…). Not to mention lessons in ego-stoking and empire-building. So…sometimes there are valid, real-life reasons for being less-than-blunt about one topic or another which make the job harder than it looks.
Does that excuse the current MSM? No freakin’ way, not by a long shot.
IaNaJ, but I think another smart thing for a prospective journalist to do is to study more than just writing and “journalism”. IOW, if there’s a particular field you think you’ll want to cover extensively, take some courses and at least learn some the methods and jargon involved.
Have you picked Newspaperbrat’s brains about this yet?
FunnyDiva
hey, we finally found something the president cares about;
being told he has no taste in clothes
see?
he DOES have feelings
SnarKassandra @ 29
Attagirl, Cassie. You’re a natural! I’ll be proud to say “I knew her when” as you’re accepting your Pullitzer Prize for Investigative Reporting.
FunnyD
perris @ 43
What a jerk! He cares about the fashion police but not about being critisized about everything else. How shallow!
My reaction to the “coverage” was that all reporters have to do is poke their microphones into some poor witness’s face or one of the victims’ and get them to talk. And talk. And talk. Like they are fricking Oprah allowing people to own their feelings on air in order to recover. For both the Minn. bridge stories and this one.
Ridiculous. This kind of journalism is not a public service. It’s just drama. Where’s the investigation? Where’s the accountability? Where’s the concern for humanity?
J-schools are ginning out talking heads with beautiful minds that don’t have to ask hard questions in order to make big money. I’ll be happy to hear if I’m wrong. But I hear this from professors of the finest journalism U’s.
Journalism is fortunately starting to reinvent itself through blogs. And I take heart in how effective they are by how much bellowing comes from Billo and his ilk who cannot control the message. But there is SO much more work to be done.
Dave Fragements @36:
Okay so “retreat mining” is common. Well, instead of having men in the mine when the pillars are removed and coal is extracted then why don’t they leave the pillars, wire them with explosives, evacuate the mine and blow them to cause the subsidence?
Answer: Greed. Get every damn lump of coal that’s economically feasible at what ever cost. After all, it’s Robert Murray’s personal NCLB: No Coal Left Behind.
Bustednuckles @ 31
I kept six loyal serving-men
They taught me all I knew
Their names were What and Why and Where
And When and How and Who.
–Rudyard Kipling
Dave Fragments @ 36
In some areas, they might build houses on top of mines. This isn’t one of them. The coal is lignite, barely better than peat, and they had an entire f*cking mountain sitting on pillars of it. That’s not a real good idea, right there.
I knew I should have include How, 9th grade was a looooong time ago. 5 out of six is ok I guess.
Happy weekend all. So good to be home from work.
Twain @ 45
Yeah, it’s not like he has to worry about cleavage or um, c.t. discussions…
I am taking journalism this school year. Starting in 10 days.
But already there is one guy who complains on my blog that all I do is ask questions about news articles. My current post is almost nothing BUT questions. Questions that the “media” should ask him on all his talk shows on Sunday.
Hiya CCMask.
I’m not a seismologist, but here’s two simple facts:
1)If a natural event triggered the first mine collapse, seismic records would show two distinct events in time.
2)The location of any seismic event can be found after the fact by triangulation.
So, you can locate the epicenter of any event (one or many) and the time that it occurred.
That’s all you need. There’s no need for doubt about who’s story to believe, only about who will be held accountable.
SnarKassandra @ 53
Read “Dispatches” by Michael Herr.
Bustednuckles @ 50
Oh, Knuckles, I wasn’t slamming you!
Just being a #%@#$% show-off again.
One of my Chemistry faculty was very involved in forensics, and started every talk with that quotation.
FunnyD.
do-si-do @46
I really enjoy our web interviews. Not one reporter, but 50 reporters.
ccmask @ 51
Hey, ccmask!
Happy Weekend to You!
And all workingpups. And everypup.
FunnyD
haven’t been as attentive on the lake today – hectic here in my home – finally got a moment to myself – hey pups – miners are still trapped and 3 rescuers have been killed trying to reach them – and are they still blaming “seismic activity”? where’s ole murray now? before he was all over the media… now not so much.. MSM finally asking pertinent questions
“Since when do the owners of mines — especially owners who have been fined millions of dollars for numerous safety violations — set the news agenda?”
I would place it at the same time that the bought, corporate press stopped pretending it had a news function and reverted to job one…propaganda for the wealthy corporatocracy.
raven @ 56
This?
perris @ 43
And maybe, when he starts putting people in charge of enforcing occupational safety rules who actually intend to do that, I’ll start giving a paisley fuck what he thinks about clothes.
Dave Fragments @ 36
That’s by and large the sense I’ve gotten from watching the press conferences. I’ve been waiting for the various networks to get their science reporters on the story, but instead it appears we mostly are getting the person assigned to cover Utah or the person covering for someone else during August vacations or . . .
You get the idea.
I see this with a lot of reporters who cover religion. Some know their stuff, and can ask great — and hard — questions. Others seem to lack the background to cover the subject at hand and so ask poor questions and settle for whatever they are told.
It drives me nuts, whatever the subject. Somewhere, there are some editors and producers who ought to be asked some tough questions: “Why did you assign this story to so-and-so?”
SnarKassandra @ 62
Yes, a great look at “journalism”, riveting.
SnarKassandra @ 27
It reminded me of 911Cassie. They just kept showing the planes hit the towers over& over again. They should have been dwelling on how the government knew, after the fourth plane hit, that the attack was over.
SnarKassandra @ 53
Well, what a poopy-head he is, then! He should either give you answers, teach you how to find answers or STFU. Too many intelligent questions is not a problem with the MSM. More like few or no intelligent questions.
Sheesh. Guess I gotta start reading your blog so I can kick some butt. Rrrrrrrr.
Funny “don’t mess wit’ my friends” Diva
SnarKassandra–just for the writing part of it, have you read Bird By Bird by Anne Lamott. It’s pretty good on writing and living and being truthful–to yourself and your readers.
mighty mouse @ 68
No, but I will look for it.
Do you think these are books that the library or the school library will have?
SnarKassandra @ 27
Hi Snarky,
You are getting some good advice here, esp. about going deep in one particular subject. It can also pay off to get some work experience in the field you plan to cover as a reporter.
I would read up on past journalists that you admire. Although he drove me crazy, I wish Sam Donaldson was still working. Can anyone here imagine him in the WH press room today? He’d really tear it up.
If you haven’t already seen it, watch Good Night and Good Luck, which is about Edward R. Murrow during the McCarthy years. So relevant today.
Write down all the things you feel very very passionate about, that really tick you off when you read about them. That will give you a clue about what areas you might want to consider your “beat”.
The best reporters are able to remember past stories and make connections to what they are covering now. Plus add their interpretations of what the implications are for their viewers. They also develop their own contacts and hold them close for future information and background, etc.
Lew Koch would also be a good one to contact for a crib sheet of advice. He’s very approachable from what I’ve witnessed.
One last thing. When choosing a college, choose the best college in your field, not necessarily the best overall college (i.e. Harvard). You might like Northwestern or some other campus better. Look everywhere and see where their alumni go afterwards. Talk to them if you can about what advice they have.
Ooooh, can you tell I love to dispense unsoliticited advice??? :)
PS: I have a 30 gallon tub of all newspapers from the attack and the weeks after. I even have the Sun-Sentinel announcing “Bush Wins” on Nov. 12. s soon as I bought this paper, the newspaper trucks came and switched papers….Someday I am going to do a study of the actual newspaper reporting.
SnarKassandra @ 53
The right question is the beginning of wisdom. Another opinion is just talk. You just keep asking the right questions, Cassie, and don’t accept anything less than the answers.
My understanding of the procedures within the MHSA were that it’s ALWAYS the OSHA types at Mine Safety Admin who are to be spokespeople, NOT the frikkin owners of the mine! The idea was that a neutral third party would disseminate a more accurate non filtered view of the situation. The more you review the MHSA and the evidence of huge campaign contributions by the industry to Bush-Cheney, the more apparent it becomes that the working man is sacrificed yet again in the name of corporate profit.
Probably a direct result of the “secret” energy meetings held by Cheney, the record of this administration of putting foxes in charge of henhouse security is directly applicable to the fatalities in Idaho and the Sago Mine disaster, as well as the three fatalities in Indiana swept under the media’s rug this past week by the subprime meltdown.
The May-June 2003 issue of United Mineworker’s Journal points this out clearly, in an article entitled “Are the Foxes Guarding the Henhouse?” we learn of the crony style appointments in the MHSA :
*Dave Lauriski ,Former Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety & Health who resigned to work for a mine industry consulting company came to his position from Energy West Mining . After accounting irregularities in his agency including the ubiquitous “no bid contracts” came to light, he resigned. There has been no permanent replacement for this important position, filled by an “acting” assistant secretary.
* John Correll was dept Assistant Secretary of Labor for MHSA-came from Amax Mining and Peabody Coal.
*Special Asst, for MSHA Mark Ellis was formerly legal counsel to the American Mining Congress.
*Melinda Pon, Chief of Health for Coal was a management official at BHP Minerals International -Utah
The article recounts the procedure now at the department, quoting UMWA President Roberts :
“When the MHSA’s top leaders sit down to decide policy, it is ow a meeting of former mine managers. We believe industry influence and actions at MSHA have been detrimental to coal miners health and safety. (YA THINK???) and we are deeply concerned that coal operators with big bucks and political clout […..] seem to get their way with MHSA regarding inspections and safety and health violations”
Mining PACS have contributed mightily to the republican cause. One example is Robert Murray, CEO of Murray Energy, SAGO’s owner. In 2002, Murray’s PAC contributed $ 388,875, 98% of it to the republican party. Over the last six years, Coal companies have donated 9 million to federal candidates, 90% of it republican., according to a Aug 9 2004 article in the NYT by Christopher Drew and Richard Oppel Jr.
Connecting the dots, always a fascinating past time with Bush-watchers, it doesn’t take much of a leap to see that it’s no coincidence that the reason it seems like there’s more mine accidents recently is because THERE ARE. A direct result of the “deregulation ” environment of the rapacious free marketeers in charge is fatality.
do-si-do @ 70
Doesn’t Mizzou have a great J school?
do si do — I will pick the best college in my field with the best scholarship.
SnarKassandra– I forgot to mention, but maybe the most powerful piece I’ve read about 9/11 was Falling Man, an article in Esquire (I think it was Esquire. Tony Judt(?) is the writer and tracks down the story behind a photograph of man falling from one of the towers. But Raven’s got it–Dispatches is the best….
P.S. It helps if you can spell and remember stuff.
Final P.S. If you work for a newspaper, get combat training in dealing with (jerk, arrogant) editors…
SnarKassandra @ 53
Journalists ask questions. Good journalists ask questions of powerful people about facts, like your post does. Bad (but potentially extremely well paid) journalists also ask questions, but usually of victims or victims’ families about their feelings: “So how did it feel when you saw the pitchfork fall off the farmer’s truck and impale your husband through the eyeball?” You get the idea.
SnarKassandra @ 69
This book has been around and is still selling in stores. Your library would definitely have it and it’s great. I esp. enjoyed the chapter on KFUK about the little editor voice in one’s head that keeps chattering like radio. Just turn it off and write!
OT – Mitt Romney got caught with Stem Cell stock investments in his 200 million dollar investment portfolio.
He has directed his blind trust investment manager to sell his positions in Novo nordisk and another company, both of which are engaged in embryonic stem cell research – not the more mundane adult stem cell research.
Raging hypocrite that he is, Romney jumped Ed Kennedy for a similar blind trust scenario in the past.
EvilDrPuma @ 72
Cassie is so lucky to be spending her early school years thru the internet era. I remember having to go to the library and all the books to help with reports were already out. I would have killed for Wiki back then!
About Bird By Bird–your school library may not have it since an article of Lamott’s writing faith is, and I quote, “shitty first drafts.” From her keyboard to God’s ears, but school libraries may not want to go there. You know what, though? You’re really a good writer now, and well on your way.
SnarKassandra @ 75
Right on! or Write on!
And I was only using those universities I mentioned as examples…fwiw.
Oh, check out anything by John McPhee for “new journalism”. He’s wonderful.
guess what- the press shows up every day and asks the admin rep what to push! how else can one explain the grotesque performance of the media in NO. In Iraq. In Utah. In Minnesota.
In the AG disdrace. For crying out loud. The major media are simply one more group of plantation slaves, only doing what the Mastuh wants them do do and/or say!
So, Murray gets out there and bullshits about the “earthquakes” being the cause while the media just picks up on that and no longer even brings up the multitude of fines that the Govt has issued the Company run by Murray.
Yup-hell of a job! Hell of a job!
mighty mouse @ 81
Yeah, mightymouse is right. Check your public library instead…
Ed*ard Teller @ 38
Hiya Snarky one,
good on you and your career aspirations.
I echo ET’s advice re: studying research, including statistics & methods.
Especially when it comes to reliability, different types of validity, and
generalizations (applying the results beyond the original context).
Being able to spot methodology (and logic) design flaws informs the areas that need further investigation. Gives writing that BAM! of critical thinking. The Edge.
You also already seem to have a keen sense of withholding judgment (prevents drawing conclusions too soon) and also goes a long way for you to formulate closer to 360 degrees of questions (covering the angles, so to speak).
You are an old soul in that way *g*
good luck!
ick. Melanie “Lips” Morgan on hardballs defending Abu…
When Greg Palast says that investigative reporting is illegal in the US and that is why he is in England, he’s just kidding, right? It’s just HARD in the US?
OldCoastie @ 86
Her nose is charcoal.
raven @ 74
Hi Raven, ack, I don’t rightly know, Snarks should check it out…but another point to keep in mind, Snarky, is that some J schools are more theoretical and have flashier faculty, and others are more hands on, do more writing or a blend. Another thing to keep in mind when choosing.
SnarKassandra @ 27
My advice for any aspiring journalist is to take as much math, statistics and science as possible. For better or worse, we live in a technological age. Many MSM types are clueless about the most basic facts and are easily gulled by a Rove or Gingrich.
billjpa @ 83
Some liberals have indicated that the Media is indeed not asleep at the wheel. They are not doddering dunderheads making mistake after mistake. They are complicit in Bushco Malfeasance.
I am just starting 10th. I need to take college prep classes and work towards my ACT’s and SAT’s and AP classes, but I don’t have to decide where I want to go yet.
Cassie and Raven–As I understand, it took a lot of time and effort and heart (and probably ingestion of controlled substances) for Michael Herr to write Dispatches. I’ve long thought it is so wonderful because it cost him so much. At the end he writes about “the choppers I’d loved dropping into the South China Sea as their Vietnamese pilots jumped clear, and one last chopper revved it up, lifted off, and flew out of my chest.”
SnarKassandra @ 87
I would say that’s correct. There may have come to be a taboo on investigative journalism in the mainstream media, but that’s not because there’s a law against it. It’s because the MSM is corporate-driven and therefore wants no investigation that would bring the blame back to big-money corporations…which is to say, they don’t want any honest presentation of the truth.
Is Murray related to Rudy?snip
UtahAmerican Energy, which runs the mine, said that Murray ran into the mine shortly after the collapse and helped rescue some of the trapped miners.
Yet when reporters and even a heckler asked to know where Murray was, Moore did not respond.
In a statement issued this afternoon, UtahAmerican Energy indicated that Murray will not likely be speaking to reporters for some time.
“As a result of Mr. Murray’s direct participation in the recovery of the affected miners and his deep concern and commitment to all Murray Energy employees, the contacts listed above will be handling all media contacts in the future,” the statement said.
A call to Murray Energy Corp. and UtahAmerican Energy officials who are designated to speak to reporters have so far not been returned
ET is “old soul” a good thing?
allan_in_upstate @ 90
Speaking as one whose formal education in statistics is lacking, I would say statistics especially. Right up there with formal reasoning as a way to achieve critical thinking skills.
perris @ 43
He has NO feelings, he’s a sociopath.
I’ve been engaging in the act of journalism for over 20 years at this point and some really fine editors and publishers along the way have taught me a lot. Honestly though, everything important I ever learned about journalism I learned from reading Hunter Thompson’s books when I was 13. Maybe some of the MSM would do good to read some Thompson to get priorities straight in their professional lives.
Melanie Morgan on Tweety calls the “TSP” the “Wireless’ Wiretapping Program”. Hmmmmmm.
SnarKassandra,
I thought every single one of your questions were good ones. They are certainly questions I would like to have answered. I’m no journalist, but my impression is that the professional journalists have stopped asking the difficult questions. It seems to me that all they are doing is going through the motions of journalism. They have their reasons, but they probably all boil down to fear, greed, laziness or some combination of the three.
There are people out there who are interested in getting at the truth. Usually some right wing attack dog is busy dragging their name through the mud. If someone is being attacked by the far right, then you can be pretty certain they are asking the right kind of questions. I imagine a teenager who asks the kind of questions you do would be pretty scary to people who count on most of America just trusting whatever they see or read to be the entire truth. Keep up the good work.
SnarKassandra @ 96
Yes, Cassie. It’s a compliment. Means that something inside you is much older and wiser than your physical body.
And I agree with ET. You do have an old soul in many ways.
FunnyD
finifinito @ 99
I’ve been engaging in the act of journalism for over 20 years at this point and some really fine editors and publishers along the way have taught me a lot. Honestly though, everything important I ever learned about journalism I learned from reading Hunter Thompson’s books when I was 13. Maybe some of the MSM would do good to read some Thompson to get priorities straight in their professional lives.
Gonzo journalism!
When I was in my teens, i snipped the dust cover of one of HST’s books (forget which), got the logo with the fist/dagger and “GONZO” underneath, had it transferred onto T-shirts and gave all of my friends one. I might even still have that somewhere….
ot:Warrant out for Saddam daughter
Interpol has circulated an arrest warrant for the oldest daughter of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
Raghad Saddam Hussein, who fled the US-invasion of Iraq in 2003, is accused of terrorism and other offences.
She helped organise the legal defence of her father, who was hanged last December for crimes against humanity.
ccmask @ 95
Murray has a bad case of foot in mouth disease. The best thing he can do for himself is STFU. His handlers – Stickler, Bushco, Local and State Republican representives and their media arm (that would be all of the MSM) will make this go away for him if he will STFU.
EvilDrPuma @ 97
Just as an example:
When
lying piece of sh*tformer Sec. of Education Bill Bennett was caught out as a gambling addict, he claimed that, over a period of many years and thousands of bets, he had actually come out ahead.Anyone familiar with statistics and betting odds would know that the chances of this being true are preposterously small.
But DC media types repeated it as a reasonable claim.
LS @ 100
Looked like she stormed off the set before the interview ended..)
If retreat mining is such a swell procedure- and done for the public good (snortle)- then why did Mr. Mine Guy LIE HIS ASS OFF ABOUT IT–huh? Huh? Huh?
Eureka Springs @ 107
If Tweety was a journalist worthy of the name, he would have had her stormed off the set before the interview began.
Some teevee talking heads may think that it’s unseemly to cut Mr. Murray a new one while the miners are still buried in the mine.
Donita in the spin upstairs
rwcole @ 110
If not now, when? If not them, who?
SnarKassandra @ 96
You bet.
If anyone who is as angry as I am wants to SPOTLIGHT this fine article by Jane to various media outlets – well, there’s the link. Go to it.
It’s easy — just craft a short introductory note (and keep it on your notepad for easy access) and choose the parameters for the outlets you want to target (CNN? FOX? MSNBC? NYTIMES? WaPoooo? Your local press?) You can access a myriad of print and broadcast outlets with the Spotlight Feature.
Constant progress in Iraq
ecurity in Iraq is improving despite a wave of car bombings that include the worst single attack since the US-led invasion in 2003, General Raymond Odierno, the number two leader of US forces in Iraq said Friday.
Odierno said that the US “surge” troop hike launched in January is “beginning to pay off” despite the massive attack in northern Iraq which killed more than 400.
According to Odierno, such an attack in 2006 “might have triggered a spiral of revenge killings, but, today, such horrific events actually unite Iraqis of different ethnicities and confessions in their outrage.”
“Yes, we continue to face setbacks here in Iraq,” Odierno acknowledged, “but overall we continue to make steady progress.”
Four suicide bombers packed two tonnes of explosives into their trucks and attacked members of the ancient Yazidi religious sect in the deadliest incident since the war began.
“Despite this attack, security across Iraq is generally improving,” said Odierno, speaking via teleconference from Iraq.
“Al-Qaeda is forced to undertake its spectacular events in more remote parts of the country, rather than in the capital. And we no longer see the cycle of sectarian revenge that plagued Iraq last year,” he said.
Raw Story
Cassie–Somehow I think you will be doing more than cut and dried news or fluffy lifestyle pieces. You seem so smart and wise already that I mostly imagine you writing insightful essays and, as they say in the trade, literary nonfiction. If you are thinking of going in that direction, I’m wondering if TRex would write about how he found his voice and his words. What do you think?
EvilDrPuma @ 94
This is what the ‘big picture’ or meta-story is about what happened to Dan Rather. He’s a good journalist with good stories still … but he caused a *bit* too much trouble.
rwcole @ 115
And then lightning struck his lying ass down where he stood.
Evil Doc
Well at a minimum his nose got a woody so long that he couldn’t look down and see his shoes.
Re allan at 90
Hi, Cassie.
I agree with allan: get as much math (including statistics) and science as you can stomach.
A good research project might be to examine how the MSM has ignored all the good research and analysis that’s been done on the John F. Kennedy assassination. (There has been lots of bad analysis that has been trumpeted by the MSM.)
And to examine why the MSM has behaved this way.
For more info on the assassination, see (for example) the Assassination Science website maintained by Professor James Fetzer.
SnarKassandra @ 96
I’m not sure what you mean by the term.
Guess this thread is dead and I can never understand the music thread. Later/.
SnarKassandra @ 92
Hey Snark
I hope you take this the right way but Dispatches is a very graphic book and I’d feel a lot better if you checked with your folks before picking it up. Thanks
SnarKassandra @ 27
I was a telecommunications major in college. I took an “Ethics in Media” class and by the end of it, I was so turned off that I wanted nothing to do with news. Mind you, this was back around 1990, before things got as out of control as they are now. After seeing how you can slant coverage by what you show, or more importantly, don’t show, I decided news wasn’t news after all. Kind of like radio has nothing to do with music, but instead, what your advertisers think their target audience wants to hear.
When I see Wolf Blitzer asking a family member how they feel about their loved one dying, I just want to jump through the television.
BleuBlazes @ 124
Yep, just so much ambulance-chasing. Of course, that was always around in the news, but it was balanced with news about…issues. and government.
“Our Elite Media have learned nothing from the lessons of Michael Brown.”
Among countless other nifty turns of phrase available on this site, this one at least for me settles the great debate about “MSM” versus “corporate media”, “embedded media” etc.
One loose thread: what to say about a civilzation whose media “elite” subsists on a diet of cocktail weenies? The stuff obviously rots your brains. So if the formulation “elite media” ever wears out, I modestly propose “junkfood media” as a palatable alternative.
cassie at 27 says-”I am very worried about the implications for Africa, where Somalia seems to be the next candidate for regime change. And the Africa Command is using the military for a supposedly diplomatic role, but is looking more and more imperial/colonial.
This article by Mahmood Mamdani in the London Review of Books: The Politics of Naming: Genocide, Civil War, Insurgency. (There is also a cached copy if the link doesn’t work.) is worth a look.”
come here……scripps howard school of journalism……..and also tv…….is hard to get into………if i still live here, you can stay with me…….athens, ohio………is not a big city, but good school………
duh, my 127, forgot to say, ohio university……….
cassie’s quote at 127 was from another thread, not hers, hers was-”
This may sound dumb, but here goes.
I plan to be a journalist. So people have told me I should study liberal arts in college and also journalism. I am guessing that most of the people in the “media” studied also. Didn’t anyone teach them they should look at more than one side of a story? Didn’t somebody teach them to not just copy down what one person said? It doesn’t look all that hard.”
and my comments meant for that was-
come here……scripps howard school of journalism……..and also tv…….is hard to get into………if i still live here, you can stay with me…….athens, ohio………is not a big city, but good school………
Couple of thoughts on this.
First Crandall was the main spokesman and face of this ordeal. I was amazed that it wasn’t a gov’t official. Having said that, perhaps that was by design…as it put the clearly arrogant Crandall who craved the spotlight and “control” also in the line of fire for taking responsibility and being held accountable. It took that aspect a bit away from the gov’t agencies.
Second-reminding us of a link from one of Tula’s post from that woman who was very knowledgeable and an expert in the area. This woman wrote about mining issues and mining safety (sorry I forgot her name). Well she wrote about how awed and amazed that at one point against all the rules and regulations that she was aware of, Crandall allowed media and journalist to enter into the mine…she noted how dangerous, careless, and boneheaded that was. Who allowed that to happen? Especially in light of what happened yesterday with another collapse and the fact that 3 rescuers were killed and others injured, her concern was spot on. Again just who is in charge, running the operation, and really concerned with everyone’s safety here?
Thirdly. Sounds like there are many Heckuva jobs…Heckuva job Stickler, Heckuva job Crandall, and lastly Heckuva job Bushie for recess appointing another Heckuva job (that’d be Stickler)
Anyway, what a shame and tragedy here…and my heart goes out to those immediately affected by this.
It is being stated on the news here in Aus that the mine collapses have occurred because of earth tremors. Lies travel so fast. Oohh I want to scream.
dave at 36-thanks, that’s what miners i know are saying………..
The MSM is simply a branch of the Orwellian Ministry of Truth. The script they read from is from the Bush Administration and DOD psy-ops, depending on what the issue is, domestic policy or the War on Terror. There is no room for journalism in the New World Order.
In the case of Mining Safety and other government regulatory agencies, Bush’s policy is to let industries police themselves. Whether it be product safety, food safety, health care, environmental safety, occupational safety, infrastructure safety, etc., we are all out the mercy of industries who care only about profit.
The biggest threat to this government are those who are threats to corporate profit and government spending (which feed the profit monster). Thats us. The best way to keep us quiet is to keep us ignorant and in the dark.
Most people get their information from the corporate owned MSM who are involved in other industries or services, and receive most of their revenue from corporate sponsors, and the MSM ownership likes what they see from this government. So if the Ministry of Truth suggests the news be covered in a certain way, they are happy to do so.
An alliance of government and corporations have conspired to fight a War on the Middle Class. Most of the poor shmucks who are taking it in the behind live in red states and are wrapped in the flag of patriotic fervor, and in perpetual fear of the Terrorists hiding in caves waiting to attack us. They plead with Big Brother to make them safe, and don’t even know they are being screwed by him. Instead of asking for better government, they simply surrender their liberties and freedoms, so government can keep them safe. This is exactly what the alliance wants in order to maintain a peaceful occupation, once the shmucks finally catch on.
Unfortunately, the schmucks will catch on only when they find out all the jobs have been outsourced or given to illegal immigrants, and the government is too broke to continue with social security and medicare, and they can’t meet their mortgage payments, etc.
There will be plenty of job opportunities in the Middle East as we expand the Iraq occupation to other countries in the region (Syria, Iran, etc), and if the applications for these jobs are not enough, there is the draft to keep the young ones employed doing something useful, and not causing trouble at home where the only jobs are in food service establishments, and health care, jobs where they can take care of sick aging Baby Boomers, and cleaning up the aftermath of their incontinence, or feed those wealthy Baby Boomers and the corporate/government elite.
In the meantime, people die every day due to defective product, contaminated food, unsafe workplaces, lack of health care, collapsing bridges, tunnels, yet they are presented by MSM as isolated events, tragedies, accidents, etc., rather than the systematic corruption of government and corporate responsibility.
It is quite entertaining, in a tragic kind of way, to watch these guys report what they do w/o breaking into a giggling fit.
anne lamott leaves me underwhelmed
thank you mike at 73
P J Evans @ 49
I agree. I’ve actually held lignite coal in my hands and It’s not strong.
i am in coal country, and houses are built on top of mines………that is a fact. roads recede because of it…….and they build them back up, that is a fact………..i know miners and still don’t know it all, because they look at their work as just a job and don’t talk about it…….it’s a job they need, so they don’t talk……..american coal, that it ends up murray owns, bought out a coal company here that closed……..bought all the equipment, and hired back a few people…….the union place that was here is gone……from what i heard, the equipment was worth more than the employees
retirin’ in five @ 34
Has anyone answered?
I’ve been following this from the beginning. The SLC Tribune, as well as the Deseret Morning News, but the TRIBUNE especially has done a magnificent job in reporting. By gawd – they should really get some kind of media prize.
Three of the original 6 are Mexican nationals. Some of the their family members do not speak English. Murray has not allowed access to the families and I think has cautioned them about speaking to the media. It was indeed evidenced by the news conference I was watching which Jane cites – where Bodie Allred was being asked questions and Murray would interject. (How fucking obvious was that, Miner Bob?)
emal @ 130
I think you’re referring to Murray. Crandall Canyon is the name of the mine.
The video: If it’s the video I saw, it was with Ellen Smith, editor of ‘Mine Safety & Health News.’ If it’s not, then I’d like to see it. Orrrr….Kathy Snyder (who works with Ellen Smith at MSHNews) wrote on her blog that she was horrified that Murray had taken a reporter down into the mine. And the reporter, Gary Tuchman, didn’t have the sense to say no!
I suspect that Murray was claiming it was an earthquake that caused the collapse because a “Mine Bump” is probably called a Mine Bump because it registers as a slight bump on nearby Richter Scales.
Of course, the term Mine Bump is terribly misleading and sanitized, sort of like calling polution the externalities of production or civilian casualties in war collateral damage.
People need to stop repeating the sanitized version. The pressure from the mountain overhead causes the pillar of rock in the mine holding up the ceiling to rupture and in effect, explode. If you compress a liter bottle of soda from the top and the bottom, it will rupture in the middle and spray soda out at high velocity. It should be called a Support Pillar Explosion, because that is really what a Mine Bump is. The support pillar(s) literally explode and shrapnel flies everywhere and the ceiling often collapse as well.
There are a lot of holes in the media coverage of this mine collapse especially involvement of the families. There have been many mine rescue stories I’ve listened to in my 57 years in this country and I’ve never heard a story like this basically narrated by the mine owner. I’m very very suspicious when I hear said mine owner is sequestering the families of the miners from whom nothing has been heard in what ten days now?
I enjoy reading the thread of comments above especially responding to Snarkassandra. If there is a future to journalism which does not entail being a Republican party apparatchik which the majority are today, like the Soviet Union, I hope Snarkassandra follows in the footsteps of journalists like Lincoln Steffens and in our time, Thomas Frank or Greg Pallast.
We are seeing the devolution of what Thomas Frank wrote about almost ten years ago in his Baffler No. 9, “When Class Disappears.” Frank I think is one of our great writers on class aand culture warfare. In “When Class Disapears” Frank distills a lot of thought about the history of class and labor warfare in the US and the connection to reporting on such events. His article focuses on the then in process Detroit News and Free Press journalists’ strike against Knight-Ridder and Gannett press and some other labor actions then in process at A.E. Staley, a corn processing plant in Decatur Illinois.
Somebody above has already mentioned the obvious lack of union presence here. I wonder: is there a connection between the defeat and weakness or absence of journalists unions and the failure of unions in mining? or other industries? Stay tuned.
Jane,
I’ve asked this question on a few blogs, so forgive me for missing the answer if it’s been provided by someone somewhere. Just how much are Murray’s employees paid per hour and what benefits are they provided for risking their lives daily to make Murray a wealthy man? And more to the point, don’t you think in all the repetitive coverage and endless tape looping that some “journalist” might have asked this question? I think that the answer to this would tell us all alot about the exploitation that goes on in the name of “free enterprise”.
Just asking.
Wordsmith @ 139
My bad…I knew it was Murray and didn’t even realize I had typed in Crandall the whole damn time even after rereading it….talk about a senior moment x10. Anyway thanks for correcting that.
As for the link to Ellen Smith, thank you, but in hindsight (and with a fresh night’s sleep)I believe it was Kathy Snyder’s blog post Tula linked to and described her thoughts as she witnessed television coverage where Murray was allowing media into the mine,(a definite no no) for reasons that have become sadly all too clear.
Liberal vs. conservative media bias?
Wrong frame.
The media has a PRO-CORPORATE BIAS, perfectly illustrated here.
In other words, the media is as liberal as the corporations that own it.