Within hours of the announcement that the federal court jury in Miami had found Jose Padilla guilty on all three counts of “terrorism conspiracy charges,” the White House and Attorney General saw fit to celebrate the conviction and praise the jury for the “impartial justice” of its verdict. Gonzales described the verdict as “a significant victory,” while my print NYT headline called it a “Victory for President.” But no matter what Padilla actually did — and we may never know — no American can be proud of what happened to Jose Padilla.
The Administration’s reactions stood in marked contrast to the disappointment and empathy they displayed for another convicted felon, an all too loyal colleague another jury found guilty of lying and obstructing justice while betraying the identity of an American covert agent. But of course, that felon had lied to cover up the lies and obstruction of the Vice President of the United States and possibly others — so empathy and commutation were due because he was one of theirs. Jose Padilla was just an Hispanic convert to Islam, but one the Administration frequently publicized and hyped as being a terrorist plotting to use a “dirty bomb” or drop grenades on Americans. Such pre-trial publicity coming from the Administration would have been problematic for ethical prosecutors, but of course, this Administration was not originally planning to try Mr. Padilla. They just wanted to imprison and interrogate him, indefinitely.
Last night, investigative reporter Lewis Z. Koch, who has been covering the Padilla trial for Firedoglake, posted his “Reflections on Padilla.” It is a chilling, depressing story, but a must read. Koch focuses on the reprehensible treatment Padilla received at the hands of the US military while he was kept in isolation and tortured over three years. Please read the post and follow the link to the interview with Dr. Angela Hegarty, director of forensic psychiatry at the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center in Queens, N.Y. and assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University, who examined Padilla for a total of 22 hours after his three years in military imprisonment.
The short version is this: The US government systematically tortured Jose Padilla, and his prosecutors engaged in egregious misconduct. Padilla’s military jailors kept him in complete isolation and subjected him to extreme sensory and sleep deprivation. Their interrogation methods caused serious brain damage to a man who came to identify with his jailers and to believe that he would be better off being convicted of crimes he did not commit, because it was the only option that would allow him to be removed from the reprehensible military system and put in a more humane US prison system.
Tom Grieve Alex Koppelman [h/t Biodun] at War Room/Salon tracked down this quote from Angela Hegarty reacting to the verdict: [h/t john in sacramento]
Actually, according to the Monitor, today’s verdict may have come as happy news to Padilla. He was terrified that if he were acquitted, President Bush would declare him an enemy combatant again and move him back to the brig. Angela Hegarty, a forensic psychiatrist who examined Padilla, told the paper that “there is no question in my mind that his first and most important priority is to not go back to the brig. This is what leaves me chilled, if one were to offer him a long prison term or return to the brig, he would take prison, in a heartbeat … He told me more than once that if he went back to the brig he knew what he had to do.” What he “had to do,” Hegarty said, is commit suicide.
During Padilla’s three years in confinement, the US government denied him all legal rights including access to counsel and habeas corpus. It held him, an American citizen, without charges — a violation of the Constitution. It chose to charge him with a crime only when the Justice Department was faced with a likely slap down and reversal by the US Supreme Court. What happened to Padilla violated American statutes and treaties such as the Geneva Conventions, the Constitution, and various Supreme Court decisions about how prisoners are supposed to be treated, even under military jurisdiction. If the stories of his treatment are true — and they are no different from what we’ve heard in numerous cases of detainees held as “unlawful enemy combatants” — his jailors and interrogators, and those who directed them, committed serious crimes, crimes we once associated only with the most brutal dictators, like Pinochet in Chile.
The jurors who convicted Padilla did their duty, presumably basing their verdict on the evidence presented at trial. But that evidence did not include any information on the government’s egregious and lawless misconduct during his long incarceration. The jurors were not told he had been tortured, or held in isolation, or denied counsel, because the judge ruled that none of the pre-trial misconduct was relevant to the charges against him. The jury was left in the dark about the Justice Department’s duplicity or any of the backgound that might have revealed this was little more than a show trial, a trial forced by misconduct and staged for propaganda purposes by a regime that had no regard for truth, or justice or the rule of law. They did not hear from Dr. Hegarty and so did not know that Padilla’s mind had been broken by his jailors.
Last night I watched PBS’ NewsHour as AP reporter Curt Anderson, who wrote this story and as Lew Koch said, did an honest job covering the trial, tried to convey the horror of what had happened — but it never came across. He was saying things that should have elicited more questions, but Jim Lehrer’s follow up question missed the mark. Very little of the full story came out. To get a taste of that, read Glenn Greenwald’s summary and follow the links to his previous extensive coverage. The New York Times‘ lead editorial also gets the basics.
President Bush spent weeks following the Libby verdict struggling with whether the outcome was fair. Yesterday with no apparent thought at all, he sent out his spokesman to pronounce the Padilla verdict fair and just. We are losing the meaning of our own language.
Long-time respected FDLer Hugh summed it up:
The government’s own actions have been so criminal and have so tainted any legitimate judicial process that it raises the question: Who is more guilty? The government or Padilla? This is not how a justice system is supposed to work; the Spanish Inquistion maybe, but certainly not the justice system in what was once a democratic nation.
This may be just the beginning. Our government is declaring that Muslim charitable groups who may have provided direct or indirect financial assistance to any group connected to or deemed to be a “terrorist” organization — e.g., Hamas or Hezbollah, not just al Qaeda — can be designated an unindicted co-conspirator in trials of suspected terrorists. So if you think that Israel and the US are wrong in trying to economically strangle the people in Gaza and seek to help them through a Palestinian relief organization, you may find yourself listed as a “co-conspirator” in some trial you knew nothing about. And we are being conditioned to think that any Muslim person anywhere, citizen or not, can be suspected of scheming to form a “terrorist cell.” CNN’s Glen Beck and other right wing nuts reinforce this night after night.
It is the 1950s and “red scare” all over again, except the “enemy” are Muslims/terrorists instead of communists. And it’s not just here. It will bring out the worst in many, if we let it. Fight back.
AP Photo/Alan Diaz/January 2006.
Related posts:
- Robert Gates: George W. Bush Was No Ronald Reagan
- Disgraceful: In 8 Years, George W. Bush Never Greeted Fallen Troops
- George Bush Personally Sent Card, Gonzales to Thug Up Ashcroft
- George W. Bush, Apparently Unironically, to Unveil Public Policy Institute Today at SMU
- Noonan Blasts Palin as a Talented Lightweight, Praised Same Qualities in George W. Bush





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busy busy morning!
2?
Administration, hypocrisy is thy name…
Scarecrow!
quatro…
Makes me ashamed to be an American.
quake @ 6
Best I can do is say I didn’t vote for this little m***erf***er.
I’ve been supporting the various different campaigns highlighted here. We’ve got to make a diff, not just in the WH but in states and congressional districts across the board…
Thanks for bringing this forward today, Scarecrow. It is a stain on all of us – a national disgrace. And a man intentionally, programmatically tortured and irreparably harmed – cruel and unusual punishment. We need to see this up close and personal – we cannot pretend that it is not occurring. To confront it is to begin to take action to stop it and to make amends. The other option is to turn our backs and walk away from everything that we say we stand for. There is no neutral stance.
I know you have to keep bringing this up because it is probably one of the single most important rulings of our time. But honest to god I cannot stomach the discussion. I feel so unbelievably ashamed of my government. Disgusted.
I want this administration, everyone in it to pay for their crimes against humanity and against us, the citizens of what used to be a great nation of laws.
Ugh…it really does make me sick.
When progressives wanted to get tough on convicted felon Scooter Libby, conservatives wanted to offer him hugs and therapy.
I retain some hope – derived from Lew’s comment that he had info that the Supreme Court, if Padilla was in fact convicted, wanted this case in front of them muy pronto.
The thought of administration officials and prosecutors celebrating this travesty is particularly galling, but it ain’t over yet. I hope.
Imagine the outrage, the intense media analysis of the failings of the judicial system, if the Clinton DOJ had pulled this shit on Timothy McVeigh.
I can’t believe it. As I read Lew Koch’s posts, I couldn’t believe how bogus the whole government case sounded.
In the same way they destroyed Padilla’s sanity, they’re destroying Iraq. The message is the same as the Third Reich’s and the old Soviet Union’s: march in lockstep with us or be annihilated. And, like all the good Germans, most of America is looking the other way. Sure, they want out of Iraq — but not because our occupation is morally wrong. It’s because Bush is pissing away their money there.
One of the many things I find so outrageous about this is all those published pictures of him bound, blindfolded and gagged are published and distributed AND NO ONE SEEMS TO OBJECT. What’s next, publication of pictures of felons hanging by the noose? I mean honestly, here’s proof that we’re torturing this person, we’re denying him (an American!) basic human rights and we’re not even HIDING it.
I’m speechless.
John Cole, a conservative blogger with a functioning conscience, said it best:
That sums it all up as simply and succinctly as possible.
As usual, the only place the NY Times is useful on this (or any) topic is in its editorial.
Phoenix Woman @ 16
My god. Put him on the endangered species list…
Yes, yes, and yes…
And we always seem to hold Germans in contempt for saying “we didn’t know”.
As I said yesterday, this democracy needs a few shovel fulls of dirt tossed on it cause it is dead.
-GSD
Utah mine continues to claim lifes. GW Clusterfuck’s industury safety czar continues to be pro production and anti safety. He will write the report on the mine disaster.
Elections have consequences- including death to thousands.
PB (peanut butter) @ 15
I’ve often wondered if televising executions, making people watch what they support, would help end capital punishment. This suggests that it would not. Instead, this suggests simply a gruesome new reality show.
You know I can’t stomach this at all either. Just plain too painful. By the way, any of you read Vincent Flynn, the neocon spy novel writer. Early on he was using this kind of torture – and others – in his writing. I wonder if this is one of those fictional works (like 24) that served to make this viable.
OT–
Rove will be Timmeh’s guest on MTP on Sunday. Among other things, they will discuss Jenna’s upcoming wedding to Henry Hager Jr., Rove’s former intern. As a reporter put it this morning on the Today Show, Chimpy may be losing his “best man” (Rove), but he’s gaining a future son-in-law.
GSD @ 19
Got a fork?
Too appalled to scream. And like Katie Jensen, can’t bear to read the details again. That said, the details are in the devils. Are there really people in this country who believe this was justified? How in God’s name (or whatever deity one chooses) can that be so?
Cognitive dissonance. Totally opposed to torture. Totally desiring that BushCo be subjected to comparable treatment.
Yes. No. Yes. No. Urgh.
I am completely in shock. It seems like this jury has just sanctioned torture. No wonder ChimpCo is crowing.
Biodun at 23 — Yes, the infotainment trend at MtP continues, I see. SIGH
rwcole @ 20
The Dems better come out on this AND SOON! This is about responsible oversight which has now gone the wayside. A big issue, and important for the election! (Think also New Orleans levies, and the Minneapolis bridge – to say nothing of the China toys, toothpaste, and dogfood, and of course our ports). Oversight please, Responsible oversight!
Phoenix Woman @ 16
The, umm, Jakoby defense delineated the reasons.
Shorter Jakoby: it would have interfered with the information-gathering process during interrogation….
The, uh, banality of evil, was the phrase Hannah Arendt used to describe exactly this, I believe.
Clusterfuck is a symptom of an america that is ill. It has strong feelings of entitlement, a strong case of wishfull thinking, no desire to really understand it’s own problems, a fatal weakness for deus ex machina solutions, and no willingness to “take it’s medicine”..
This disease will not be over when Clusterfuck leaves office- we will vote in more like him- cause he is what we want and need- snake oil.
Sort of on topic…John Donne and torture.
It’s a good read, and should be passed on to your friends.
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90000907
The only thing deader than this decayed democracy is the messaging department of the Congressional Democrats.
-GSD
mui @ 26
Exactly. As far as I know, this is the first time a jury has really signed off on all this police-state stuff.
mui at 26 — No, they did not. The jury wasn’t presented with any of the evidence on the treatment of Padilla in custody — that was not part of the case in chief because it wasn’t applicable to the charges involved. (Yes, I know that seems odd, but it’s a legal thing.) The torture issue will, however, come up for appeal purposes because it was argued extensively prior to trial. And I really do think that Padilla’s attorneys were trying to get past the evidentiary trial stage so that they could then publicly make the appeal arguments on constitutional and humanitarian mistreatment grounds — it needs to all be aired publicly and this way, on appeal, they can do so through written and oral arguments.
The jury was not allowed to hear about the torture as I understand it- so they were not sanctioning it- they were merely punishing a man of color because of his obnoxious beliefs.
Conservatives shouldn’t be let off the hook either.
GSD @ 32
On Oversight: And isn’t Susan Collins on the oversight committee, and didn’t she refuse to subpoena the Whitehouse after Katrina? And didn’t she also have the NAACP investigated for speaking out against Bush in 2004?
http://whitenoiseinsanity.word…..t-in-2008/
She is as fair and balanced as the Fox watching FAUX news.
Scarecrow:
Typo: Gonzales described
[Mod: got it and thank you ]
yellowdogD @ 31
I meant John Donne. Pronounced Dunne, spelled Donne. Slaps forehead.. [Mod: fixed]
The american people are not gonna allow a little thing like the truth keep em from buyin 3 ton SUVs and McMansions that they can’t afford- we’re God’s chosen people and he wants us FAT!
CHS @ #34,
As always, you give me hope. I hope you’re right.
rwcole @ 40
Fat and short. Apparently God chose me.
rwcole @ 40
Yes but responsible oversight would put weight and fuel restrictions on those SUVs, and/or tax them at higher costs because they are chewing up the highways and bridges at higer rates than the cars of the rest of us.
From the NYTimes:
On what basis did the judge decide that the details of Padilla’s treatment were not germain to the case? The right has screamed for the last forty years about cases being thrown out for simple [i]Miranda[/i] violations, but Padilla’s extensive incarceration and denial of [i]habeus corpus[/i] somehow don’t amount to a disqualifying event? This guy has one helluva case on appeal.
Americans don’t want no fuckin responsible oversight- not if it means not getting what they want when they want it.
EPUed from late, late night thread
Jose Padilla an American Citizen with all the rights and privileges that go with it gets 1,307 days in isolation in order to break him.
The bin Laudin family on the other hand does not even get questioned by the FBI after September 11.
Nope they get private planes to take them out of the country.
Now then just WHAT freedoms are our solders fighting and dying to bring the people of Iraq again?
Heck if I were an Iraqi I would not want to be an American or have an American style government.
Nope I would want to be a bin Laudin.
After all in George Bush’s America Scooter’s and bin Laudins ARE more equal than others.
Great post scarecrow.
It really helps for perspective to read through the Declaration filed with the Dist Ct in NY, early on, that sets for the reasons and rationale proffered by the Governement and our Department of Justice – main Justice and SDNY – as to why they needed to keep Padilla and, for that matter, be able to disappear Americans at will and with no judicial interference.
http://www.pegc.us/archive/Pad…..030109.pdf
Lowell Jacoby explains that in order to protect the US and its citizens, you have to allow the Executive to “develop” intelligence techniques by practicing, for years and years, on American citizens as human guinea pigs. Not because the guinea pig is dangerous, but because mental vivisection, combined with some random and depraved physical abuse, is just so darn much fun and so, well, “effective” in the long haul.
After all, how will any American citizen ever “be safe” unless you give the Executive full and unchecked power to round up any American citizen – on no evidence or, better yet, tortured evidence – and proceed to make them “believe” that they are helpless and that anything can be done to them anytime and with no limits and that there is no such thing as the protection of law or of the Consitution.
And what better way to make them “believe” it then to – - – make it true.
Of course, the money quote is that, the court should just not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain because, after all, fascists, dictators and evil pieces of filth on the face of the earth get by with this kind of thing.
Seriously, line up the info on what was being filed, openly, in court. The info from Suskind and others on Zubaydah and Binyam and what was done to them to elicit their “information” on Padilla (and btw – look at the fact that Judge Cooke has now enshrined the third hand relation of tortured statements by a blackholed alien “detainee” who will never be allowed to court and who is also suffering from mental diseases and defects as an acceptable basis in fact for issuance of a warrant for a US citizen – Brava! to the courts and Brava to the fine men and women with the Dept Of Justice for their participation)
Look at the report done by the Pentagon itself detailing the Geneva Conventions violations ongoing at the So Car brig – the mysterious disappearance of tapes, etc.
Then go back and read through the Padilla presser, right before the Sup Ct decision that had the DOJ so worried, and if you can feel kindly towards anyone involved in the process, then I don’t see how you can claim to love what this country used to be.
So destroyed, on so many levels.
But at least it provided all the loyal Bushies with an opportunity to invoke more chuckles from their deity: “And then, Mr. President, he screamed ‘Please save me, save me’ oh, Mr. President, I just can’t do it as well as you – would you please say it instead, it’s so much funnier when you do it.”
Sick people.
Well….perhaps some wishful thinking, but maybe the Judge, at sentencing, can take into account Padilla’s torture and give him a lighter sentence?
Well, maybe not.
Ghostman
mui @ 26
I join you in being appalled. But apparently most if not all of the details of the torture were not allowed to be presented to the jurors. This was a travesty of a court, based on Lew’s reports.
Tom at 45 — Because the judge equally ruled that no evidence that was obtained through interrogation or through the time period in which Padilla was held without access to counsel was allowed to be used in the government’s case in chief.
I’m not saying it was a correct ruling — it will definitely be part of the appeal haggle — but it’s not part of the factual basis for the charges that Padilla ultimately faced in trial and, thus, the judge excluded the evidence of mistreatment. Honestly, that sort of thing comes up more frequently in pretrial motions as an argument on why the case should not go to trial in the first place (which is did, a LOT, in this case) and is more properly dealt with in a legal context in a habeas and other appeal processes.
It sucks. Beyond that, it’s incredibly difficult to watch the system grind slowly through the process. But the issue will most certainly be visited, in detail, on appeal. I’d bet on that — and this time, it will be done publicly through writen and oral arguments, as it moves through the court system.
Ghostman @ 50
IANOL, but from what I’ve read here, the torture and the sentence are mutually exclusive for purposes of this trial. So Christy et al, at what point and how can the two come together?
Mary at 48 — Absolutely right. This case, from start to finish, has been gut-wrenchingly wrong at every possible turn. Where there could have been a decision point where things could have changed for the more lawful, more decent, more humane — the Bush Administration invariably chose the unlawful, indecent and less humane route every freaking time.
If I were Bush, I’d be thinking, “The next president. Hmmm. The next president may reveal what I’ve hidden from the people.”
Then I’d think, “This can’t happen.”
Then I’d think, “Need to talk with Dick. Need a national emergency, oh, around October 1 next year. Yes. That will be good.”
Heard details of the trial outcome as recited on Lehrer last night.
Even that dispassionate, straight-forward description of the trial and its background was absolutely chilling.
Padilla is no girl-scout. That’s obvious.
But it seems clear, this trial was the tip of a very very ugly iceberg of unfettered injustice abroad in the land.
I want our country back.
Nice stuff, Scarecrow (again).
Gawdawful that people have not vicariously learned from the mistakes of history, that we seemingly need to actually walk through this again, so that the masses wise up to these methods and the results.
Here’s hoping that people will stop long enough to question
what they think they know before piling on.
Here’s hoping that those who stand to take on the mantle of leadership are not themselves corrupted. So far, many have had opportunity and few have shown
the requisite integrity.
Here’s hoping that someone can reach JP, to restore him.
Here’s to the restoration of habeus, probable cause and due process,
including confronting the accusers.
Ghostman at 51 — The problem is that this is a federal court, and the sentencing guidelines come into play — although there is some argument as to how applicable, or not, those are these days based on some recent Supreme Court cases. I really do not have a good feel for what this judge is likely to do, mainly because I’ve been so involved in so many other issues that I haven’t followed this case as closely as I did the Libby one. Lew has watched this judge a lot through the trial and through reading the pretrial proceedings as they have been available, and may have a better sense of what will be most likely.
But, just based on some of the rulings that I know, I don’t think the judge is likely to deviate too much from the federal sentencing guidelines, to be honest. And I haven’t had time to do a calculation on what that might mean. (Has anyone checked to see if Jeralyn has done one on this, as yet?)
Jonathan @ 55
Or they need Jeb in ‘08!
Things like the Padilla decision make me want to buy another Bush/Pinochet 2004 bumper sticker.
Adie @ 56
So basically, what’s needed is that BushCo stand trial for crimes against the people. We can say all we want to that elections speak to that issue, but as we are seeing, the wheels grind exceedingly slowly and justice (particularly in a DOJ headed by a BushCo minion) grind exceedingly slowly and unjustly.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
God I hope you’re right Christy. Because it needs to be aired. And more people need to be properly appalled. For now I can’t stand the Stalinistic crowing of Bush and Company.
Now we know why the lawyers decided not to put Padilla on the witness stand as per last Lew Koch post along with other intimations that Padilla is a destroyed person.
Thuis is Bush’s warning shot across our bows – “this can happen to you too, if you get out of line.”
Scarecrow:
Another correction:
Actually, Alex Koppelman wrote that. Tim Grieve usually writes Salon’s War Room, but Alex subs for him sometimes.
I think I mentioned yesterday that MN is home to the Center for Victims of Torture. In my wildest dreams, I never dreamt that this organization would be called to minister to Americans tortured with the blessing of the American government. Never. We are rotting at our core.
Scarecrow, Christy thank you for wonderful post and comments.
Can someone tell me if it’s definite that an appeal will be filed for Padilla? After what he’s undoubtedly been through, I doubt he would necessarily have any faith or understanding that one would be possible, or even that anyone cared.
What more can they do to the guy?
They have already destroyed his mind.
Imagine what his poor mother thinks, her son is basically dead to her.
Putting him in prison is going to accomplish absolutely zero.
Mississippi Rep. Chip Pickering (Republican and protege of Trent Lott) is calling it quits…for now.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/2007…..calls.html
Toby Wollin @ 68
mebbe him’s gonna run for prez, or hope for a nod for veep.
anything’s possible in murka.
Adie at 66 — Ultimately, it is Padilla’s decision whether or not to appeal the case — it is always the defendant’s call on something like that. But it is my understanding that there are very strong feelings that an appeal is definite, so long as Padilla gives the go ahead. The problem is that, honestly, his mental faculties are no longer intact after the horrid conditions under which he was held for so long without attorney access or otherwise, so even if he refuses to sign off on an appeal, there are ways to file one on his behalf with consideration given to his potential incapacity for making a rational decision on appeal.
It’s complicated. But if an appeal is to be filed, we’ll know in a few weeks because defense counsel will file a notice of intent to appeal with the court.
Off on the business of the Queen. See everyone later.
Ghostman -this judge has over and over said that the Gov torture (despite the fact that it was expressly intended to mentally break down the defendant and make him identify with his captors) has nothing, in her mind, to do with anything. It won’t have any impact.
And unlike Jayt – I don’t get much excitement over the thought that Sup Ct wants to see the case. They want to make tsk tsk noises and then make sure there is a case upholding the legality of the Executive’s actions.
Maybe they can quote from the Presser, saying that clearly the President made the right decision.
Not one candidate will even touch this kind of thing with a 10 foot pole, btw. From that, I think GSD is basically right. It’s too late for more sandbags when the levee has been breached. At that point, you have to look around (well, not if you are Bush or a loyal Bushie, but otherwise) and recognize the destruction for what it is and know that you can’t actually protect what was anymore. At best, you rebuild. Perhaps at the very best, you rebuild better. But what was, is gone.
Bustednuckles @ 67
I hope he’s in federal custody that observes the rules and regulations and not in some special ChimpCo tank.
diogenes @ 63
Thuis is Bush’s warning shot across our bows – “this can happen to you too, if you get out of line.”
I found myself wondering last night whether that might not have entered the jury’s minds too.
Mary @ 48
Marty Lederman calls the Jacoby Declaration, “The Rosetta Stone of the Detention/Interrogation Scandal”:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/#1579532732005214751
From Salon’s War Room:
Thankyou Christy. That’s what I was afraid of.
I hope they go for it, if he can just stand it.
Heaven knows, he’s got nothing else to look fwd to. This whole thing just makes me sick inside.
Jr. truly must be a cold, hollow shell.
Any reports of Padilla having a bullet-proof vest on when on transport to and from the courthouse?
mui — He’s been in federal custody ever since he was ordered there by federal courts. That it took three long, brutal years for that to happen is disgusting, to say the least. That most of the media has ignored that — and that they are allowing the Bush Administration to crow without simultaneously holding them to account on why the system could “work” for Padilla, so why are they pretending it would not do otherwise for every other person we have in military brig limbo — is beyond me. Laziness or a sort of intellectual incuriosity — or a tacit agreement that the unilateral executive gets to do as he pleases — I’m no longer sure which is the operative factor any longer, to be perfectly honest.
From Salon:
And see this appalling WaPo editorial where FFFH and pals attempt to split the legal baby by saying that Padilla was treated badly — but others don’t deserve their full day in court — as exhibit A in the media sloppiness on this.
Ultimately, it is Padilla’s decision whether or not to appeal the case — it is always the defendant’s call on something like that. But it is my understanding that there are very strong feelings that an appeal is definite, so long as Padilla gives the go ahead.
I don’t know that he’s capable of making a decision which is in his own best interest at this point. Could/should a guardian be appointed?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 79
I feel better knowing he’s in federal custody and not in limbo, if that’s one outcome of the trial. Even that Ramzi Youssef guy apparently gets the AMC channel in his fed call.
jayt at 82 — I believe I covered that in the remainder of my comment which you snipped. Yes, there are procedures that can be taken if need be — a number of different levels of them, actually. But it depends on individual circumstances that only the folks working with him are going to be able to adequately assess.
jayt @ 82
Padilla sounds like probate court material at this point.
81 – the Whitehouse Post hasn’t been on my read list for a long while, but Christy, I think people need to take some ranitidine or cimetidine or omeprazole before they read that.
A conspiracy theorist might think that WaPo pieces are written these days for the sole purpose of increasing the sales of Zantac and Pepcid.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 81
I dispute this part from the very beginning:
Three years in Chimpo-TortureBrig territory, than Fed Custody. Should I read further. Maybe not. Too depressing.
Mary at 86 — I know. I read it and had to make myself a cuppa tea before posting about it, I was so pissed off. Kafka would have been right at home reading that one, wouldn’t he?
The so called application was doctored by the government… or so it seems according to Petel. This needs to be examined by forensic experts and this could be grounds for reversal of the verdict.
Niger forgeries? I thought the FBI was good at this stuff.
imho, this post and whole string of comments should be mandatory reading for any of the twits who have ever sniped at FDL for shallow, self-serving reasons.
How about this interesting take in the Gray Lady:
Biodun @ 64
Thanks. I’ll fix that.
Mary @ 86:
707!
I must go do s’more chores now, but I feel better knowing all you dawgs are here.
Thank.You.All.
FWIW, here are some recent articles that I’ve found interesting and helpful on tracking Bush’s torture program.
“The Black Sites, A rare look inside the C.I.A.’s secret interrogation
program” by Jane Mayer, New Yorker, August 13, 2007 (postdated).
Focuses mostly on the torture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, but gives a
lot of general information too:
click
“The Banality Of Dick Cheney’s Evil” by Digby, Hullabaloo, August 08,
2007. Here are key excerpts from Jane Mayer’s New Yorker article.
click
“The Rosetta Stone of the Detention/Interrogation Scandal” by Marty
Lederman, 8/14/07. Marty Lederman’s piece on the Declaration filed in
the Padilla case by Vice Admiral Lowell Jacoby, Director of the
Defense Intelligence Agency:
click
“Psychologists to CIA: We condemn torture,” by Mark Benjamin. In a
rebuke of President Bush, the American Psychological Association has
resolved to condemn brutal CIA and military interrogations.
click
“American Bar Association Criticizes Bush Terror Policies” by Mark
Sherman, AP, 8/11/07. President Bush’s recent order on CIA
interrogations of terror suspects should be overturned because it
still allows harsh treatment in violation of international treaties,
two American Bar Association committees say.
click
“ABA targets CIA methods, secrets law” by Henry Weinstein, Los Angeles
Times Staff Writer, August 14, 2007. The lawyers’ group wants
Congress to override a Bush order allowing ‘enhanced’ interrogation
methods.
click
“Incident at Fort Huachuca, the Army’s Torture Training Center” by
BILL QUIGLEY, CounterPunch, April 4, 2007. Protesting Priests Escape
Jail Before Torture Trial. click
“Tracking Torture,” by BEN TERRALL, CounterPunch, April 28 / 29, 2007.
click
“It’s official: torture is Bush policy” by Frank, DailyKOS,
Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 01:26:27 PM PDT:
click
If dubya is allowed to get away with this, we all are at risk of the same fate Padilla has experienced.
Far-fetched? No, all dubya has to do is say there is secret evidence that shows terrorist support or activity.
It’s secret so you or anyone else cannot see it. So you’ll sit naked in a dark cell alone for 2,3, whatever years…
If the supremes don’t correct this we have to demand the dems come out publicly against this and vote to repeal this travesty.
A free democracy cannot accept this!
Mary — Do you know anything about the initial counsel who represented Padilla at the Sup. Ct. on the detention issues: Jenny S. Martinez? She teaches at Stanford, I know that, but I’m wondering if she’ll pick up any of the appeal work from the trial as they go forward? I don’t know her, or know of her much beyond this case. Wondering if you do?
From the Gray Lady:
Long-standing debate: whether terrorism should be treated as a crime or as (political) war. Gordon Brown of the UK is said to treat terrorism as a crime.
Sorry for the OT – but I put a comment in on the YouTube submitted by Collins4Senator, the one showing her ‘disgraceful’ treatment at the recent parade. It didn’t show, but I got this from YouTube:
I commented on a video, but my comment isn’t appearing. What happened?
…It’s also possible that the owner of the video has required approval for all comments on the video. In that case, your comment won’t appear until the owner approves it.
For a while there, the vid was showing that there had been one comment, but didn’t show it. *Now*, it shows “0″ comments.
I’m guessing they didn’t like my comment, ’cause it’s gone, gone, gone. And no, I wasn’t foul-mouthed.
Cowards.
Redd – I emailed you a silly Bush clown… it’s not much of anything, but it cheers me up when I’d had enough…
I posted these links after most had left Lew’s post last evening. They refer to an earlier Democracy Now program on CIA use of psychologists and the Amer. Psychological Assn’s position of not opposing using psychologists in torture. Worth looking at.
here and here
Biodun @ 97
He’s very much on record with that. In fact, he reiterated that meme several times when he met with Bush. Spain has also come very much down on that side of the debate too.
That Al Qaeda form seems to be the linchpin of the government’s case:
95 – No Christy, I don’t know her, or really know anything much about her. Hopefully she will stick with it, though. Maybe Lew can get with Padilla’s current counsel and get you some scoop there.
An interview with someone like that on the issues would be really nice to read. ;-)
Off to do horse stuff and try to remember what used to be.
Padilla falls among the famous who were convicted. Many books will follow. The case will be cited. Tragically, unlike Rubin (Hurricane) Carter, he will have the added burden of mental damage rendering him incapable of or limited in helping himself.
Can we expect a book to be written by Jose Padilla? This served Rubin Carter well, picked up by Bob Dylan and popularized in folk song. It set Rubin free. What can we expect from a man who has been tortured and isolated for years? Torture is the new norm to destrop a person’s mental capacity and will to fight back.
As I read the argument that this case proves Federal court can try enemy combatants, it fails to include at what point – before or after years of torture and isolation.
I don’t know Rubin Carter’s current status but if he is around perhaps he can give us some helpful advice in dealing with prisoners under the new executive powers of torture first and trial later.
The “24″ adminstration. They think this is a TV show and they’re all Jack fucking Bauer.
Growing up here in Indiana, a very red state, patriotism was always preached with a firm zeal. I remember the American flag flying from the pole in front of the house every morning as a child.
I attended Purdue University, and was reminded of the red-state patriotism at every home football game with a reading entitled “I am an American.”
After reading about this, and seeing what my country has become, I’m not sure I want that “way of life” anymore. I certainly can’t speak those words proudly, either. I am completely ashamed that this sort of thing would happen here, in America. The blind eye from the media leads to public indifference; therefore, I find the press complicit in this fiasco. No one bothered to ask any questions about this man while his brain was turned to Jell-O by his torturers.
He may not be dead, but there is blood on ALL our hands. We have to do better, for the sake of the nation, and for the sake of our conscience.
Will the appeal process be for each individual defendant on each count or will they all be lumped together in the appeal process?
Biodun @ 103
And yet:
Torture a man on a brig, and some citizens will begin to put nothing past the government.
Hi Mods: would you do me a favor and remove post 49? Thanks [Mod: done]
Mary @ 72
Those brave (D) paragons who will ride to the rescue in 08?
I was hoping someone could post quotes from Obama or Clinton, their firm, uncompromising paeans to the Rule of Law, and how atrocious it is that American citizens can be snatched at O’Hare airport and accused of heinous crimes based on tesimony extracted from others by torture…
crickets…..
the charade is getting harder to sustain, isn’t it? The Democratic Party leadership wants the same thing the neo-cons want – a consolidation of an authoritarian corporate state in a condition of permanent war at home and abroad.
If they are too timid to adress this precedent setting case – the case that says what happened to Padilla could happen to anyone – then, as I said last night
Biodun @ 103
I’m still having a hard time picturing the filing system for all these paper forms, stashed in the file cabinet of the cave.
Appeals are generally filed individually, so I’d assume that is what will happen in this matter as well.
Meanwhile, BushCo expands the war on terror:
BushCo has been itching to get into the Horn of Africa. Special Forces have actually been operating in Ethiopia and Somalia for sometime now.
The idea that there is any such thing as an “Al Qaida” application form at all is what is boggling my mind! I can’t get past it. Why on earth would they have one? Is it standard? Is applying to al Qaida like applying for a job? Is there a stack of blank al Qaida application forms somewhere? How do we know it’s not a phony? Has anyone ever seen another?
Help.
Thunderbird @ 107
Well said!
GSD at 19
The great experiment that was the United States of America has ended.
I agree with Mary at 72:
“At best, you rebuild. Perhaps at the very best, you rebuild better. But what was, is gone.”
QuakerGirl @ 104:
IIRC, he lives in NYC.
mc @ 105
This analogy has traction and has been widely played out in the public sphere for sometime now. Just Google it.
Jonathan @ 117
That’s why we have to lobby Al Gore to run. He’s uniquely qualified to do this. He’s done it before…although it will be more work this time. I don’t trust any of the current candidates to understand what’s required.
Audrey @ 114
Well, duh. There’s background checks, credit history, job history, all this stuff to review, doncha know?
I love the Al Qaida application form, also. It set my imagination going – couldn’t stop it. How do I apply for one? Would that be like I did for college or a job, go pick up one perhaps at the local Mosque among all the other pamphlets? Is it one or two sided? Once I fill it out do I mail it to:
Bin Laden
Al Qaida
Cave
Bora Bora, Afghanistan
Scarecrow @ 111:
Precisely.
PB (peanut butter) @ 120
Recommendations from previous terrorist organizations.
You just go to Kinko’s and get the form.
It’s right next to the applications for crooked Attorney General and evil Vice President.
QuakerGirl @ 122
PB (peanut butter) @ 121
Exactly! I’m concerned about security. If I apply for the job, what about the work environment? Is there job safety for a suicide bomber? Chances for advancement? etc…
Have any jurors spoken out yet?
Christy ran upstairs and put up a fresh thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..m/#respond
QuakerGirl @ 121
Well for pity’s sake. That’s why we can’t find him. Bora Bora is in Tahiti, are we looking for him there yet?
Biodun @ 118
Morning, all.
Anyone catch McCain on The Daily Show last night? He pretty much made the same point about 24 as he reiterated his stand against torture.
Too bad he threw away all his credibility. It would’ve come in handy in convincing a few of our fellow citizens.
Wait…wait…I’m still working on the application process.
egregious @ 128
Those caves run far and deep. That’s why our weapons can penetrate all the way to China.
Gang:
Intersting discussion of the Al Qaeda application form…LOL!
QuakerGirl @ 131
Well shoot, I remember reading a long time ago about those caves being tunnels to everywhere. Now it all ties in. We must invade Tahiti!
PS: I don’t care if this is epu’d–I’m in a mood born of anger and frustration….
Should anyone feel an urge to comment of Susan Collins’ video showing the horrific treatment of her by a polite cameraman – go here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Co…..MTQmyjWEAm
AQ: After reviewing your application we have determined that you are not fit to be a member of Team Al Qaeda.
Thanks.
P.S. You record will be kept on file for further review in the future.
-Hassan Ben Sobah, AQ Human Resource Director
GSD @ 135
Dammit! What’s a girl gotta do to get a job these days!
;)
true that.
these folks have been in this head space a while:
http://www.radnoesis.info/
Fresh thread, for everyone.
This trial would be a comic Marx Bros. farce if weren’t real. It would be a commentary on state of the nation, if it weren’t already.
sorry if this has been covered – i havent read the whole thread.
did anyone see the coverage of the padilla verdict on the news hour w/ jim lehrer last nite? while they did an admirable job – they didnt go far enough. thus – my email to the newshour today:
Dear Mr. Lehrer
While I was impressed by the length & depth of your questions to Curt Anderson last night, I was surprised you didn’t get into the actual specifics of how Padilla has been treated while in custody. For example – did you know that the complete isolation and extreme sensory and sleep deprivation he was subjected to caused serious brain damage? And did you also know that Dr. Angela Hegarty, director of forensic psychiatry at the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center in Queens, N.Y. and assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University examined Padilla for a total of 22 hours?
I am not a psychiatric professional, but the concept of Stockholm syndrome comes to mind after all I have read about Padilla. It seems he began to identify with his jailers, and to believe he would be better off being convicted of crimes he possibly didn’t commit, because it would take him out of the military prison system and put in a US prison system.
While I know it’s not popular in America these days to apply our laws to those accused, (convicted), of conspiring w/ terrorists, the truth is ALL our laws MUST be obeyed at all times, or else we sink into chaos & anarchy.
Please find a way to present the background story of how this American citizen was treated, & how many believe his confessions were coereced due to being tortured by his military jailers.
Respectfully
- —–
The important thing to remain mindful of is that the government might do to anyone what it did to Padilla prior to a trumped up terrorism claim and get the same result. Nothing in in place to prevent it at this time. In fact, the precedent set here bodes ill for the future.
Impartial jury? The NY Times today, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..dilla.html
has this:
The jurors, seven men and five women from Miami-Dade County, would not speak publicly at the courthouse and left through a side entrance. But one juror, who asked that her name not be used, said later in a telephone interview that she had all but made up her mind before deliberations began.
“We had to be sure,” the juror said in Spanish. “We wanted to make sure we went through all the evidence. But the evidence was strong, and we all agreed on that.”
Not the way I saw it from outside the courtroom.
I thought this opinion piece from the LA Times was excellent.
I just couldn’t find anything at all in the Chgo Tribune, or decent in the Chgo Sun Times, which is especially shameful since the Padilla family is from here in Chicago.
Link edited by Mods
The US government systematically tortured Jose Padilla, and his prosecutors engaged in egregious misconduct. Padilla’s military jailors kept him in complete isolation and subjected him to extreme sensory and sleep deprivation.
The Horror….he managed to keep his head attached to his body and is still alive though.
Look a ignorant Mental Midget Talking Monkey, with a Spineless Gutless Traitor AG. call this a victory . What victory?This is a shame on America a Kngeroo court at worst and a imitation court at best.
They have proven NOTHING except they are GUTLESS little people that aare afraid of their shadows.
Padilla, A One-Act Play
We have all been here before!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen this all before!!!!
“Integrity of the Process Compromised”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F8ch48Wefb8
“It is the 1950s and “red scare” all over again, except the “enemy” are Muslims/terrorists instead of communists.”
More like the 1920’s, and this is a new Sacco-Vanzetti case.
I hope someone like Andy Irvine writes a protest song to speak for this man who can no longer speak coherently for himself.
mui @ 13
If this isn’t overturned, then we can expect prosecutors everywhere to repress evidence of torture and inhumane treatment and to allow forced confessions. Every court would have to bring in a kangaroo to act as their mascot.
This is NOT a good thing.
quake @ 50
The only way I can see this as making any sense is if the jury thought that the only way this man was ever going to be allowed to go free was to find him ‘guilty’ and then have it overturned by a higher court. Perhaps they knew that to find him ‘not guilty’ or to ‘hang’ would only send him back to Gitmo forever. I can only hope that’s what they were thinking because the alternative is that they were willing to imprison an American because they were afraid.
Thunderbird @ 106
Don’t give up on YOUR American Dream. Don’t let those bastards take away YOUR America.
Jesse Jackson asked African-Americans to “Keep hope alive” because they clearly had an American Dream and he wanted them to know that if we just stuck to it they could achieve their dreams.
Now, after it has become clear to the vast majority of Americans, that Bush is more than an incompetent disaster, that he is a danger and a destroyer, we are all …fill in the blank.
Be an engineer, an artist, a clerk, a doctor, a coach, a firefighter or whatever you believe in. Don’t ever let criminals like Bush tell you that you are part of his filth.
We Americans are used to having leaders who were either real or at least good phonies. they all told us the American myths and bolstered our confidence, so we’d elect them. Well, it did have the good effect of a pat on the head and a word of confidence and we’ve survived and done very well for ourselves and our friends abroad. It’s strange to have a ‘leader’ who says a lot of the right words, but then does all the wrong things. It is downright weird.
Your responsibility is to fight that cancer and restore the good health of the nation, so we can go on creating OUR American Dream of peace, prosperity and good relations with everyone in the world (and as we are now realizing, with the planet itself). It’s certainly worth fighting for and besides, what else have you got to do that’s more important?
Sure, we get ticked off and sick of this crap. But, then, as Joe Biden says, we get back up and we don’t let morons like Bush stop us from enjoying the lives that many generations have fought for. Sen. Obama says we need to unite and have hope and I agree. Former Sen. Edwards says we have two nations and we need to unite and work together and I agree. The task isn’t easy, but “a house divided cannot stand” and we certainly can’t achieve the American Dream if we allow Bush or this current Conservative Bush Republican nightmare continue. Their philosophy that “government is the problem, not the answer” is dividing us terribly and it’s very bad.
Bush said he was a Uniter, not a Divider. He lied.
a conservative blogger? he just tells the truth.
Phoenix Woman @ 16