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	<title>Comments on: How Many More Mining Deaths?</title>
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		<title>By: retiredminer</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902421</link>
		<dc:creator>retiredminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902421</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bob Murray is the modern day coal baron.Just as in early 1900s,a mans life is worth nothing,but dont hurt that mule it costs money.There was always a barefoot man waiting outside the mine for a job. After Sago nothing has changed.Officals stand in front of the camera and say “we will learn from this”. Crap,your too stupid to learn anything,it keeps happening.Put a man in space and cannot find a man in a hole on earth. Thanks MSHA your a real help. Send more to their death .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Murray is the modern day coal baron.Just as in early 1900s,a mans life is worth nothing,but dont hurt that mule it costs money.There was always a barefoot man waiting outside the mine for a job. After Sago nothing has changed.Officals stand in front of the camera and say “we will learn from this”. Crap,your too stupid to learn anything,it keeps happening.Put a man in space and cannot find a man in a hole on earth. Thanks MSHA your a real help. Send more to their death .</p>
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		<title>By: twolf1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902198</link>
		<dc:creator>twolf1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;CNN still reporting uncritically about seismic activity at the mine.  Failing to note that is caused by the mine itself.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CNN still reporting uncritically about seismic activity at the mine.  Failing to note that is caused by the mine itself.</p>
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		<title>By: nolo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902156</link>
		<dc:creator>nolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902119&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;lisadawn82 @ 41&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902118&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Nina Katarina @ 40&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s just too funny.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i am trying very hard to smile&lt;br /&gt;
at this one — i know how &lt;strike&gt;ironic&lt;/strike&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;make that &lt;b&gt;&lt;em&gt;moronic. . .&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;rudy’s comments were. . .  but it&lt;br /&gt;
is people like rudy, and c.e.o. murray,&lt;br /&gt;
we have to thank for three dead rescuers,&lt;br /&gt;
and six still-missing coal miners — all&lt;br /&gt;
buried 300-feet-beyond the point considered&lt;br /&gt;
structurally safe, just a mere 20 years ago. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;great riff, though!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;keep ‘em comin’. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p e a c e&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-902119"><em>lisadawn82 @ 41</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-902118"><em>Nina Katarina @ 40</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s just too funny.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i am trying very hard to smile<br />
at this one — i know how <strike>ironic</strike></p>
<p>make that <b><em>moronic. . .</em></b></p>
<p>rudy’s comments were. . .  but it<br />
is people like rudy, and c.e.o. murray,<br />
we have to thank for three dead rescuers,<br />
and six still-missing coal miners — all<br />
buried 300-feet-beyond the point considered<br />
structurally safe, just a mere 20 years ago. . .</p>
<p>great riff, though!</p>
<p>keep ‘em comin’. . .</p>
<p>p e a c e</p>
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		<title>By: FMC</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902150</link>
		<dc:creator>FMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902150</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with nolo about the extreme pressures at those depths. This is a very deep coal mine for North America.&lt;br /&gt;
Another factor could have been the haste with which rescuers may have been trying to reach the trapped men, and not themselves following the best safety procedures.&lt;br /&gt;
It would have been different had there been a fire or explosion. Then they would have ultra-cautious.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with nolo about the extreme pressures at those depths. This is a very deep coal mine for North America.<br />
Another factor could have been the haste with which rescuers may have been trying to reach the trapped men, and not themselves following the best safety procedures.<br />
It would have been different had there been a fire or explosion. Then they would have ultra-cautious.</p>
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		<title>By: lisadawn82</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902119</link>
		<dc:creator>lisadawn82</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-902118&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Nina Katarina @ 40&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s just too funny.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-902118"><em>Nina Katarina @ 40</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That’s just too funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Nina Katarina</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902118</link>
		<dc:creator>Nina Katarina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard Rudy Giuliani spent more time in that mine than the miners did.</p>
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		<title>By: nolo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902101</link>
		<dc:creator>nolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;[epu’d from tula connell’s&lt;br /&gt;
fine post and thread on&lt;br /&gt;
100 years of mining, yesterday:]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’m posting tonight as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://indictdickcheney.blogspot.com/2007/08/ot-about-those-missing-utah-coal-miners.html&quot;&gt;miner’s brass ID tag number 4733&lt;/a&gt;,&lt;br /&gt;
from long-ago high school/&lt;br /&gt;
college summer stints as a&lt;br /&gt;
hard-rock miner in a non-union mine. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;first — excellent stuff tula and scarecrow!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;next — this tragedy just claimed&lt;br /&gt;
the lives of three more miners — these&lt;br /&gt;
ones being rescue workers, in the drift. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i will wait until morning, to hear&lt;br /&gt;
c.e.o. murray’s reaction, and his&lt;br /&gt;
demeanor — but it better be pretty&lt;br /&gt;
damned contrite. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;there is a fairly compelling scientific&lt;br /&gt;
case –- from a geological/mining engineeering&lt;br /&gt;
point of view — that at 1,800 feet of&lt;br /&gt;
overburden/cover, these miners were simply&lt;br /&gt;
sent, by their superiors, to a depth BEYOND&lt;br /&gt;
the structural limits of such a mining&lt;br /&gt;
operation — either the pillars were too&lt;br /&gt;
thin, or the drifts were correlatively&lt;br /&gt;
too wide — but in either case, coal&lt;br /&gt;
seams are simply prone to collapse under&lt;br /&gt;
the sheer weight of 1,800 feet of overburden.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it used to be that 1,500 feet was considered&lt;br /&gt;
dangerously “too deep” in this region — and&lt;br /&gt;
the missing six men were reportedly last known&lt;br /&gt;
to be working almost 300 feet below that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this is an unfolding — and nowhere&lt;br /&gt;
nearly ended — tragedy. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if you believe in a higher power, ask for&lt;br /&gt;
some “mo jo” for these rescuers/miners — the&lt;br /&gt;
ones actually doing the work — and the ones&lt;br /&gt;
still missing — they’re gonna’ need it,&lt;br /&gt;
come tomorrow morning. . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;post scriptum: a missing miner is still&lt;br /&gt;
missing, until his or her brass ID tag&lt;br /&gt;
is found — it matters not whether any&lt;br /&gt;
of these workers were documented; it matters&lt;br /&gt;
that they are missing.  and we need to&lt;br /&gt;
force c.e.o. murray (and the mines div.&lt;br /&gt;
of o.s.h.a., if need be) to go get them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;either rescue — or recovery.  no one&lt;br /&gt;
wants a family member to be left&lt;br /&gt;
entombed at 1,800 feet. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p e a c e&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[epu’d from tula connell’s<br />
fine post and thread on<br />
100 years of mining, yesterday:]</p>
<p>i’m posting tonight as<br />
<a href="http://indictdickcheney.blogspot.com/2007/08/ot-about-those-missing-utah-coal-miners.html">miner’s brass ID tag number 4733</a>,<br />
from long-ago high school/<br />
college summer stints as a<br />
hard-rock miner in a non-union mine. . .</p>
<p>first — excellent stuff tula and scarecrow!</p>
<p>next — this tragedy just claimed<br />
the lives of three more miners — these<br />
ones being rescue workers, in the drift. . .</p>
<p>i will wait until morning, to hear<br />
c.e.o. murray’s reaction, and his<br />
demeanor — but it better be pretty<br />
damned contrite. </p>
<p>there is a fairly compelling scientific<br />
case –- from a geological/mining engineeering<br />
point of view — that at 1,800 feet of<br />
overburden/cover, these miners were simply<br />
sent, by their superiors, to a depth BEYOND<br />
the structural limits of such a mining<br />
operation — either the pillars were too<br />
thin, or the drifts were correlatively<br />
too wide — but in either case, coal<br />
seams are simply prone to collapse under<br />
the sheer weight of 1,800 feet of overburden.</p>
<p>it used to be that 1,500 feet was considered<br />
dangerously “too deep” in this region — and<br />
the missing six men were reportedly last known<br />
to be working almost 300 feet below that.</p>
<p>this is an unfolding — and nowhere<br />
nearly ended — tragedy. . .</p>
<p>if you believe in a higher power, ask for<br />
some “mo jo” for these rescuers/miners — the<br />
ones actually doing the work — and the ones<br />
still missing — they’re gonna’ need it,<br />
come tomorrow morning. . .</p>
<p>post scriptum: a missing miner is still<br />
missing, until his or her brass ID tag<br />
is found — it matters not whether any<br />
of these workers were documented; it matters<br />
that they are missing.  and we need to<br />
force c.e.o. murray (and the mines div.<br />
of o.s.h.a., if need be) to go get them.</p>
<p>either rescue — or recovery.  no one<br />
wants a family member to be left<br />
entombed at 1,800 feet. </p>
<p>p e a c e</p>
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		<title>By: twolf1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902061</link>
		<dc:creator>twolf1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902061</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.minesite.com.au/chinese_coal_mines_order_more_mine_communications_systems&quot;&gt;Chinese Coal Mines Order more Mine Communications Systems&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
—&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21296019.shtml&quot;&gt;Activemine Wireless Technology May Become Coal Mine Safety Standard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.minesite.com.au/chinese_coal_mines_order_more_mine_communications_systems">Chinese Coal Mines Order more Mine Communications Systems</a><br />
—<br />
<a href="http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21296019.shtml">Activemine Wireless Technology May Become Coal Mine Safety Standard</a></p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902031</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-902031</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mine safety?  To George Bush, that’s a contradiction in terms, like good government and fair taxes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George Bush longs for the Gilded Age of Robber Barons.  The Carnegies and Rockefellers accumulated their wealth by being more ruthless than their competitors, by breaking what few rules of the game there were (and getting away with it), by paying no taxes, and by treating their workers like driftwood, incurring no liability for endangering them, and breaking them bodily when they formed unions to demand better pay and conditions.  (That was a “danger” they responded to swiftly.) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George Bush has done all he could to return American business - especially energy and extraction industries - back to its Gilded Age, no- or low-tax, no- or low-liability past.  He has stuffed his government with hacks and lobbyists who rewrite the regs they can and who don’t enforce the ones they can’t, most especially when it comes to collecting fees and penalties.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Voluntary” efforts are his creed, since the criminal law, by his definition, seems to have no application to bidness.  Except that workers don’t volunteer to work; they have no choice and they do essential jobs, providing essential goods and services.  Mr. Bush will never reconsider his views; Congress shouldn’t be so hesitant to grow up and do its job.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mine safety?  To George Bush, that’s a contradiction in terms, like good government and fair taxes.</p>
<p>George Bush longs for the Gilded Age of Robber Barons.  The Carnegies and Rockefellers accumulated their wealth by being more ruthless than their competitors, by breaking what few rules of the game there were (and getting away with it), by paying no taxes, and by treating their workers like driftwood, incurring no liability for endangering them, and breaking them bodily when they formed unions to demand better pay and conditions.  (That was a “danger” they responded to swiftly.) </p>
<p>George Bush has done all he could to return American business &#8211; especially energy and extraction industries &#8211; back to its Gilded Age, no- or low-tax, no- or low-liability past.  He has stuffed his government with hacks and lobbyists who rewrite the regs they can and who don’t enforce the ones they can’t, most especially when it comes to collecting fees and penalties.  </p>
<p>“Voluntary” efforts are his creed, since the criminal law, by his definition, seems to have no application to bidness.  Except that workers don’t volunteer to work; they have no choice and they do essential jobs, providing essential goods and services.  Mr. Bush will never reconsider his views; Congress shouldn’t be so hesitant to grow up and do its job.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-901994</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/17/how-many-more-mining-deaths/#comment-901994</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I regard the mine owner as a murderer. He belongs in prison for the rest of his life.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Bush appointee Stickler is a murderer and belongs in prison.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have zero tolerance for anyone who knowingly jeopardizes the lives of working Americans in the way this mine owner has (and the tragedy is - he will continue to do so!).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I urge everyone to revisit the excellent Barbara Kopple documentary:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Harlan County, U.S.A. (1976)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I regard the mine owner as a murderer. He belongs in prison for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>The Bush appointee Stickler is a murderer and belongs in prison.</p>
<p>I have zero tolerance for anyone who knowingly jeopardizes the lives of working Americans in the way this mine owner has (and the tragedy is &#8211; he will continue to do so!).</p>
<p>I urge everyone to revisit the excellent Barbara Kopple documentary:</p>
<p>Harlan County, U.S.A. (1976)</p>
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