(Please welcome our guest contributor, Marisa Treviño of Latina Lista. It’s great to have her here and if I may gratuitously say it, I hope you bookmark her site, just as I have. — Pach)
A funny thing happened on the way to building the Lower Rio Grande Valley portion of the Texas-Mexico border fence.
It was something that caught Chertoff and the Department of Homeland Security off guard, the White House, Congress and even the average American citizen who lives miles away from the border in question — Texans, who actually live along that portion of the border, don’t want it.
It’s a concept that is hard for the rest of the country to grasp. After all, aren’t border residents living in fear for their lives by living on the frontlines with what conservative extremists like to term “the invasion” of illegal immigrants?
Well, according to border residents, the only invasion they’re feeling is the one from Washington that is dictating that a fence be built through, along and around their communities.
The idea of a physical structure being built is so repulsive to these residents that in a show of rare solidarity, unlike anywhere else seen in the country, activists and environmentalists are joining forces with politicians, business owners and local law enforcement to present to Congress alternative ways to secure this portion of the border.
Border residents have been contending all along that the border fence was an ill-conceived idea. In the original plans, the fence cut right through the University of Texas at Brownsville campus and gave Mexico a prized U.S. historic landmark.
But Washington has barely taken notice of the embarrassing gaffes of the fence map or the combined voices of a constituency for whom officials in Washington seem to be treating like second-class citizens by purposely ignoring their requests that a fence not be built along their communities.
Well, being Texans, these border citizens have had enough. So, they’ve joined with their counterparts in Mexico for the border’s first-ever binational protest.
They’re calling it Hands Across El Rio and it begins August 25.
Spanning 16 days, 1,250 miles, it’s a protest that involves Americans and Mexicans forming human chains across the international bridges, daily binational press conferences and the launch of a flotilla of kayaks, canoes and inner tubes that will paddle down the Rio Grande to each international bridge to join the protests in progress.
Longtime border residents are saying they’ve never seen anything like this before in their lives and the consensus, from both sides of the border, is that this is a historic event.
But what is really amazing is that these organizers, for the most part, are average residents who have felt forced to make their voices heard. Because so many have never participated in a protest, the organizers are sending out a plea for assistance.
If ever there was an example of the Little Guy going up against Big Government, this is it.
At the least, this effort deserves our collective attention. At the most, it deserves our support.
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YES!
TEAR.DOWN.THAT.WALL!
Welcome, Marisa!
Great story, and worthy of support.
I hope some Texans around here chime in.
I love the smell of a fresh Zed
Time for a family trip to the border Labor Day weekend I think!
Don’t fence me in.
Hello, Marisa.
To Marisa,
That’s absolutely amazing.
Before I became the Freewayblogger I used to smuggle clothes into Mexico:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..hills.html
At the time it seemed like it was the most useful thing I could do to alleviate misery. Now that the Bush/Cheney tragedy is grinding into the bitter end of the second act I’ve found myself thinking a lot about where I was when the whole fucking mess began.
Everything in the first part of the film comes back at the end you know.
Mr. GorBUSHchev, tear down this wall.
-GSD
We were down along the Rio Grande earlier this year at Big Bend N.P. Decent, law-abiding people in the area HATE that wall. Many in s. AZ do also. It’s devastating to maintenance of civil relations tw’ the 2 countries. It’s wickedly ruinous to the wildlife in the area. It’s.Just.Wrong-headed! Period!
imho, of course….
Thank you Marisa, how interesting.
Funny thing, the proposed border cuts right through the university of Texas. Will students need to carry passports? heh.
Latino Pundit @ 13
Of course. With private contractors at every opening. Gotta stop them terraists.
Powerful message, Marisa. Thank you for writing about this.
N=1 @ 15
I will second that.
@ 14
Yes those darn illegal immigrants are more of a threat than them darn terrorists, thus says Newt Gringrich! Roooooaaarrrrrrr!
You know, it is actually symptomatic of the fact that regular Americans aren’t going to put up with the government controlling them. It is a good sign. Live free or die is still alive. Texans, often conservative, still don’t want a totalitarian government – no matter what W/Gonzo/Chertoff want us to believe. We just don’t.
Thank you Marisa. I will indeed bookmark your site. ;->
There will, indeed, be areas where a wall won’t be the best measure to keep out the illegals. All you need to do in some of these areas is deploy UAV’s and beef up border patrol officers in order to arrest the illegals as they try to cross.
Ghostman
Muchas gracias for the warm welcome and supportive comments.
LatinoPundit – you’re right. Technically speaking, students would require to carry passports to go from one part of the campus to another — which is ludicrous and I doubt it would get that far.
I’ve alerted the people organizing the Hands Across El Rio that this post is up and hopefully some can join the conversation to add their perspectives.
Thanks again.
Marisa
Latino Pundit @ 17
And Newt Gingrich is an honorable man. [bitter sarcasm off]
This makes total sense and I can’t believe I never thought about it before.
Could you imagine the gov’t showing up one day and wanting to put a big fucking wall right on your property?
Yeah, it’s a bit intrusive. Well, the government -does- have a tool which they can use if they want – Eminent Domain.
I will never understand why the US doesn’t do more to HELP Mexico develop their own industry, so that it’s citizens don’t feel the need to search elsewhere for the means to support their families — which is totally understandable.
Hell. Why don’t we just annex Mexico and make it the 51st state?
Marisa Treviño @ 21
That would be great. If people have questions about this grassroots movement, they can maybe leave them in the thread, and maybe answers can come later.
The thread will remain open for 24 hours.
Thanks again, Marisa!
The part about the fence cutting through a campus is just too hilarious.
” I’m from the government and I am here to help you”.
I swear these idjits couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with the instructions printed on the heel.
It is really great to hear this good news. This does not really surprise me too much. My impression is that relations along the border (at least around Del Rio/Ciudad Acuña where I go often) have gotten better and better in the last 20 years. The rabid xen*ph*bes cannot grasp the beauty and challenge presented by this dynamic mix of cultures. Here’s hoping for a huge turnout!
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
Bustednuckles @ 26
Let alone read history. Quick…name one closed border that has ever worked as promised. Can’t do it? Neither can I.
Thanks and Welcome Marissa
Notice there is no wall between Canada and the US. There was even a funny article about how there are places where the US/Canada border runs through people’s backyards – probably true for US/Mexico too. I went through the border station that the TB patient drove through. “Are you a US citizen?” “Yes” “Come on.”
By the way, what about the border along NM, AZ and CA? I’m quite near San Diego but haven’t really heard rumblings about any particular building going on, or anything like that on this end (although of course there’s already pretty much a fence between TJ and SD).
Dianne in DC @ 29
There’s been some recent kerfuffle about a homeowner who built a fence around his property that encroaches on the “free zone” or whatever it’s called between the US and Canada, and all the govt. pressure has been brought to bear to tear down that fence…!
Wildlife Biologists have grave concerns about the border fence in many areas which will prevent/hinder the natural migration of many species many on the endangered species list.
The Tribal communities are also upset with AZ proposed fence as it will separate century old tribal land and families.
One of my favorite groups is No More Deaths
Fences in other states have funneled the movement of immigrants into areas that are extremely dangerous.
Someone has to say it.
See, Our President really can be a Uniter! (har)
Thanks for this post. It’s encouraging to see something good happening as a result of yet another poor choice of the Administration.
Huge applause for everyone involved in Hands Across the Rio!
katymine @ 31
Thus does BushCo prove once again that a truly stupid idea can be stupid in many, many ways.
lttle bit off topic, so sorry but this is really NEAT;
from think progress who are quoting the judges in an nsa spying case before the court, this one quote is GREAT;
pay particular attention to my bold…hey nancy…are you paying attention’;
PB (peanut butter) @ 30
The historical relationships between border towns don’t seem to run as deep in the other border states as they do along the Texas-Mexico border. Of course, there are always exceptions.
As far as San Diego, Republican presidential candidate Duncan Hunter, is using the success of the fence in cutting down crime as one of the cornerstones of his campaign focus on border security.
In fact, he’s starting to say with too much frequency that if it weren’t for him the fence would never have been built in San Diego. It reminds me of Gore taking credit for the Internet.
But figures released this week show that apprehensions were down all along the border with only one area registering an increase – you guessed it – at the San Diego sector.
Liberty Lover @ 24
This is a joke, right? Just checking.
Where the fence is supposed to go along the Rio Grande, where are they constructing or planning to construct it? Doesn’t the international border go down the center of the channel?
Glad to hear this. I have been active in opposing the fence through birding networks. The outrage there cannot be overstated. I live in Houston and I have always been pleased that Texas has resisted the anti-imigrant hysteria. When the current moron of a president was merely our moron of a governor, the one thing that I liked about him was that he refused to indulge in imigrant bashing.
We don’t much like this wall down here and we are pretty resistant to solutions imposed on us from Washington. And lots and lots of our neighbors (our American neighbors) have Mexican surnames. They are our teachers, our police officers, our friends and family. And many of them have family on the other side of that proposed wall.
It doesn’t surprise me that this wall isn’t playing so well in Texas.
Ed*ard Teller @ 38
I think the same map that showed half of the UT-Brownsville campus on Mexico’s side, the international bridge between Brownsville and Matamoros was on the wrong side of the fence as well.
FWIW: Gore never said that. This has been widely debunked.
Marisa at 40 — Now that is some mighty fine planning. *g* Good heavens…
Thanks, Marisa. Great posting about what’s going on here. We’re desperately trying to get the word out and this helps. On the same day that Hands Across El Rio starts in El Paso, August 25, the noborderwall yahoo list serve group is having a rally at an historic mission called La Lomita, which may end up on the river side of the wall. This cherished site, along with several businesses, homes, farms, ranches, and incredibly diverse wildlife refuges are all in danger of being cleared or cut off. Please visit the No Border Wall website for more info: http://www.notexasborderwall.com. Thank you.
I can’t help but notice they want to build a fence to keep the flood of brown people out, but they can’t build a fucking levy to keep the floods off brown people.
Very wise people, our elected republicans.
Betty Perez @ 43
Thanks for coming by, Betty.
Can you tell us more about the coalition that’s come together on this? As someone who tries to use this FDL platform to build coalitions and publicize great organizing, any details you can offer would be most welcome.
I really appreciate you stopping by, and any questions you can answer, well, we’re most appreciative. I know this was not on your schedule!
Texas Birder @ 38
Well, you’re wrong. Perhaps not a continuous wall, but beefing up border security plays very, very well across Texas. The majority of Texans are tired of the illegals flooding in. Folks along the border may not be as upset, but that’s just the border.
I continue to encourage sweeps to pick up illegals and ship them back. Sanctions against employers who employ illegals are also in order.
Ghostman
-246.55
Here’s a linkto listen to an NPR story I heard a coupla months ago. Mayor of Laredo Opposes fence.
“Longtime border residents are saying they’ve never seen anything like this before in their lives”
We have all never seen anything like the Bush/Cheney Administration in our lives.
Or the agenda unfolding.
The Bush Eminent Domain.
“Money, money, money…
Big money kicks the wide wide world around.”
http://jonimitchell.com/musician/album.cfm?id=28
Ed*ard Teller @ 38
latter: yes
former: haven’t a clue.
bonus info: in the Big Bend area, they wouldn’t even HAVE water in the channel, except for water flowing in from the Mexican side, since the U.S. of A.’s heavy use of the water for agriculture etc. dries up the channel one or more times on the U.S. side. It wouldn’t even reach the Gulf if it weren’t for Mexican input. Let Boooosh put THAT in his pot & boil it!
LS,
I EPU’d this at the bottom of the last thread, check it out.
http://alterx.blogspot.com/200…..l-guy.html
LS @ 47
Ugh…I have the uneasy feeling that the market is on the edge of going into free fall.
Hold on to your hats, folks.
Americans are smart. I didn’t believe it when Dietech said so, but it’s true! I love this, Marisa.
Adie @ 50
Well here is my possibly silly question – those big old meandering rivers tend to move around some – oxbows get cut off and such. Does the border move with the river?
PB (peanut butter) @ 30
Here in NM we have a vehicle barrier in the area near Columbus/Palomas. It turns out that the Dim Son’s minions built that barrier on the Mexican side of the border. The Mexican governments (both state and federal) have taken offense. The barrier is going to be moved.
Much of the monitoring of the border is handled by an aerostat (tethered balloon) south of Deming, NM which carries a high-resolution radar system. Years ago I was near the border doing some rock hounding with my uncle, and we drew a visit from the BP because we were ‘loitering near the border.’ They saw the hammers, shovels, picks, chisels and a bunch of onyx and told us to have a good time. We were, and didn’t need their blessing to do it.
The preliminary fence designs have been subject to serious criticism from environmentalists, because they potentially stop gene flux for several endangered populations. Chertoff’s people have gone back to the drawing board to incorporate elements that allow animals to move across the border.
Question: If you design a fence that allows a desert pronghorn, desert bighorn sheep or a jaguar to get through, how are you gonna keep people out?
BC
I can hear the mariachi!
Peanut Butter, I’m in Fallbrook. Where are you?
Only a fool would try to build a fence across 2,000 miles of Chihuahuan Desert.
Might not be a good idea to be in the river. The rivers are still very full and will only be more so after Erin and Dean.
John Gillnitz @ 58
We are talking about George Walker Bush. ‘nuf said, eh?
BC
Marisa! Welcome to FDL!
What an exciting development … I was just looking at the links and wow!
Can’t wait to learn more – and see how we can help.
I come from a border town. What most of America doesn’t know is that at least in most of the Texas-Mexico border regions the local communities have a long connected relationship with their sister cities across the border. Each relies on the other for their economies. It goes both ways and has changed character many times throughout history. Another uniquely border phenomenon is that the people or not just tied culturally and economically but many times by blood. Whether Hispanic, Anglo, or Black folks who live down here, have had family down here somewhere down the line have relatives on both sides of the border. Building a wall although technically would not change much it would make a significant impression on those relationship it would create an animosity between the governments of Mexico and the US as well as between the people. This would be devastating to the economies and cultures on both sides of the border.
In fact we have joint counsels and commissions made up of local officials on both sides to work together to socially and economically promotes the region not just the US or Mexican side. Our Mayor although Anglo speaks fluent Spanish and gives addresses on Spanish and English radio and newspapers. We have an annual Amistad (Friendship) festival each year were folks from both sides come. There are also festivals on the Mexican side that folks from the US look forward to each year.
To basically ram this down our throats without or input simply to cater to a political base that has no ties to this area and espouses racism at worst and xen*ph*bia at best is simply wrong. This a political move by the Republican party and nothing more. Divide and conquer politics. Luckily there really is no GOP on there is no GOP on the border. It is all BLUE.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
OT: But I wonder if the move by the W.H. to have Petreus and Crocker speak only privately to Congress isn’t something already agreed to by the DLC and their friends, i.e. so they don’t have to tell us WHY they are voting to continue the Surge. They can just say “we heard some things that made us vote the way we did.”
Brisingamen @ 52
This drops the Dow to where it was at the beginning of the year and wipes out all of this year’s gains. It also represents a 10% decrease and qualifies as a market correction. Declines like this are often punctuated by brief respites or “good days” where bargain hunters pick over the debris before the next fall.
Fern @ 54
I’m no water-wizard, but I’d think, since the flow is so pitifully small now, it’s no longer capable of influencing the channel location.
That once grand river is pretty sorry-looking now, thanks to humankind’s [attentions].
It is a beautiful part of the country though.
I heartily recommend a visit to Big Bend Nat. Park. Beautiful wild area! Accommodations on the skimpy side, so plan ahead. We went with an Elderhostel, so left the planning to them. But enjoyed wonderful hiking and birding & glorious beautiful vistas. ;->
Betty Perez,
I signed your petition. Anybody here who wants to let HS Czar Chertoff know thy don’t want this fence should go to that link and let the secretary know.
Marisa,
In one of the articles you link to in your USA Today blog article, there’s the following – “But early in May, local leaders intercepted a map of about 153 miles of Texas fencing they hadn’t been consulted on.” Are those maps available somewhere on the web?
I also forgot to mention a recent article I read in the newspaper. Where some section of the fence being built is basically cut down every night with a blow torch and every morning the USBP have to weld it back up. It is just ridiculous.
John Gillnitz @ 58
Some fools simply order it done, then go biking.
Hugh @ 63
Where’s neokneme? he had a good assessment the other day about 200 day running average; if memory serves, think he thought that if level busted through, it’d really drop since resistance would have been broken.
Verdict in the Padilla trial.
OT Padilla verdict @ 2pm.
Adie @ 50
I don’t know about the situation around Big Bend, but the Mexican government has not met its flow obligations from the tributaries around Ciudad Juarez in a very long time, even after last year’s floods. They’re deep in (water) debt, and the Texans want it paid.
BC
raven @ 70
Yikes. That was quick.
TxExSpeedy @ 65
We’re getting news that Border Agents have now been assigned to build the fence since the National Guard is being recalled.
We’re hearing that people are none too happy about doing something they don’t consider their job. It would be interesting to see if they got immigrant labor to build it :)
As far as seeing those maps, I know that my editors at USA Today really tried to find them online. It seems they were taken out long enough to show at a community meeting and then whisked back to their protective vaults or wherever they keep “classified” material.
Maybe Betty or someone else from the area can enlighten us.
raven @ 69
Where is Lew Koch?
I hope they blow the Govt.’s case out of the water.
Richmond @ 61
I had not heard this but it shows to what degree the White House is trying to stage manage this. What they are worried about is a question or an answer that will show just how much of a failure the surge is.
I put this list out yesterday but I think it is very important to counter the current pro-surge PR campaign.
1. Failure to meet the two goals of the surge: 1) Security in Baghdad and 2) A political settlement
2. The move away from benchmarks because little or no progress has been made on them
3. Failure to recognize Iraq is in civil war and create a strategy which addresses it
4. Continued conflation of al Qaeda with the Sunni insurgency
5. Exaggeration of Iran’s role in Shia militias and minimization of Saudi Arabia’s role in the much more deadly Sunni insurgency
6. Failure to resolve tensions between the Kurds and Turkey in the North
7. Corruption, disorganization, sectarian nature, and ineffectualness of the Iraqi government
8. High levels of violence and deaths of Iraqis which have not declined
9. Iraqi security forces remain largely fronts for militias and death squads
10. The Iraqi army has almost no reliable troops and remains strongly dependent on our forces
11. Deterioration of basic services, such as water, electricity, and healthcare
12. Large scale malnutrition among Iraqis children (~28%)
13. Continued high levels of unemployment (25%-40%)
14. Declining oil production, Iraq’s principal source of income
15. High numbers of refugees: 2 million in neighboring countries, 2 million internally displaced
16. Tenuousness and temporary nature of Sunni truce in Anbar
17. Increased Shia on Shia violence in the South
18. Exhaustion of American troops and equipment
19. Inability to sustain the number of troops needed for the surge
20. Post-withdrawal violence will occur if we leave now or later
If you have any suggestions for additions please let me know and feel free to use any or all of the above in discussions with surge supporters.
Along the California border that is exactly what happened. There was an article in the LA Times, I believe it was some time ago. Can’t remember exactly when I read it.
Back on topic.
is this fence the 20 footer I heard about?
And if it is, who has stock in a 21 foot ladder company?
The one thing good about the border fence move is that they have given the contract to a Halliburton affiliate so: 1) they are unlikely to ever get it built; 2) most of the materials will get lost along the way; and 3) there will be no accountability in either case, and the money will run out before anything substantial is in place.
That dull thud you just heard was Malkin’s head exploding.
Loo Hoo. @ 57
I’m actually in Orange County, but come down to the city quite often, and TJ as well from time to time.
You … you … mean that actual human beings who share common borders can actually come together and … umm … make a difference?
What am I going to tell Michelle “Mexican” Malkin? I mean, shouldn’t the good american citizens on the border report these lawless invaders from the Sonoran desert?
Shouldn’t every patriotic American stand guard to prevent this? Ohhh for thelove of Sam Houston, where are the true Americans?
I think we should go to Alabama, South Jersey, Idaho and Wyoming and find some true Americans who still remember what it means to be a true American, and … umm have them displace those traitors who would actually treat those dirty brown people from across the river as human beings.
What is this great country of ours if not a xenphobic, racist, hostile bastion of freedom and opportunity?
This is off topic but still:
Thoughts?
According to Carol Keton Strayhorn Rheilander (whatever!) the Wall would be a detrimental to our economy. Our reasons for not wanting it are different from their reasons for not wanting it, but we don’t want it. :)
dan_ps @ 82
And they have gotten how much free pub because of this?
Marisa
A GOOD NEWS post! Thanks, I needed that.
I’ve been awonderin’ what the local folk think.
Hey Busted, OT, but this one is for you:
Wrenchware for the handy person
9th Circuit Judge – Alice in Wonderland:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/15/183931/749
Ed*ard Teller @ 65
Signed the petition too.
Hmmm…if it ever appeared on the internet, there *should* be traces left of it somewhere, the trick would be tracking it down. Wayback machine, google caches, etc.
Thanks so much for this, Marisa. Great post.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..99,00.html
Padilla vedict to be read at 2pm in Miami.
Richmond @ 78
And it will fall in about a week.
sofistic @ 85
That is SO cool!
Thanks for thinking of me.
This is great! Thanks for making us aware that real Texans, unlike that phony one from Crawford, along the border are not quivering in their boots thinking about the “hordes” from the South. I’m going to check the link out regarding the plea for assistance.
Thanks again!
Marissa, This is an important story. To bad outraged citizens all over the country haven’t gone out into the streets to protest everytime the Bush Administration/political lied about something. It is way past time for that. I cracked up at the protest from 9th circuit judge Pergeson.perris @ 35
Bustednuckles @ 74
Fingers crossed. IANAL but I think a quick verdict usually favors the prosecution. Any lawyers out there that would have an opinion on this?
BC
You could count endangered Ocelots & several other species to your very astute listing, and come to realize very quickly why wildlife experts are perplexed, frustrated, worried, and downright furious at dumbya’s ludicrous shenanigans! The increased construction activity in the area won’t keep the people out, but will probably spell extinction for endangered wildlife populations in the area.
Also, as I understand it, this is an area of mostly drought conditions, overall water deficit to be sure, but also dangerous flash-flooding at times.
Regarding Mexico’s being in arears over keeping up their promised contribution to the water level, -um-, how do you think they feel, when this charge comes from our country, which allows the whole bloomin’ thing literally to dry up to no flow at all, except from Mexico?
booosh administration might not be bothered by making such a stoopid charge, but I’m embarrassed FOR them. Hubris anyone?!
Excellent work, Marisa.
For those of you who do not read Latina Lista regularly, her writing is incisive and thoughtful. Put her among your daily reads. You won’t regret it.
Delphyne @ 93
Just to be fair, w hich I really hate to do for this prez, I don’t think Bush cares about “securing” the Mexican border. He only sees it as a source of slave labor. This is due to bowing to pressure from other constituents. That said, he’s certainly ultimately responsible for the actions out of that pressure…
Server seems to be grinding a bit? No problems, I hope.
This administration works their cons by generating fear of brown people … in Iraq, in Mexico. It’s amazing and inspiring to hear of so many people on the border working together to call them on it.
Is there a good way for Firepups to help even if they can’t be there to join in?
I think the reason the GOP’s attempt to make immigration “the new gay marriage” hasn’t done them much good electorally is that in areas where there actually are enough immigrants that people have contact with them, most people don’t hate or fear them, in the areas where there aren’t, it’s not a strong motivation on voting behavior.
(On a related topic, unfortunately the advent of blogs means that anyone with a computer can now be a yellow journalist.)
Server problems? Probably the Susan Collins people trying to catch some foul-mouthed fems on their lunch breaks.
DOW plunged 306.71
The sun’ll come out Tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar That tomorrow There’ll be sun….
The border area is obviously infested with liberals and probably liberal bloggers.
Richmond @ 102
and that “sproing” was Looie Dobbin’s melonhead blowing a gasket. ;->
s’cuse, but isn’t it sexist for susie’s people to ignore TRex’s colourful prose?
Server problems, yes.
RockPaperScizzors @ 103
Good thing the Preznit has that honorary MBA. He’ll know just what to do. He’ll want to cut his own taxes even more!
This is great news. Finally, someone is standing up to the insanity. I seriously believe that ChimpCo is taking its cue from the Soviets. Build the Berlin wall. Make things ugly, separate families and communities with no ifs, ands or buts.
My comment on the petition: It sends a terrible message to the whole world about US standards–the Rio Grande would become the moat around the castle. That’s just not who we are. I would love to see the whole area lifted up through economic fair play–it could be so beautiful.
Thank you, Marissa. Thank you, Pach.
I think it’s the Arizona governor who said that if you build a 50-foot-high wall, someone will simply come up with a 51-foot ladder.
stupid
terrible use of government money
environmentally awful
ineffective
Must be a Republican project.
Jonathan @ 110
That was Rick Noriega who said that, in a session over here, I do believe, although perhaps he was quoting someone else.
The only thing the proposed 12 ft (IIRC) wall will accomplish is a booming market for 13 ft ladders.
And illegally hired labor to dig tunnels.
Great read, Marisa, and I’m delighted to get such a great into to your site.
Jonathan @ 110
It’s not that the fence would work to keep anyone out. It will, however, do two things. It will make Republics feel like they’re taking a firm stand. It will also funnel government money to some contractor like Haliburton or a company controlled by the Carlyle Group.
Biodun @ 106
Do you think that they’ll blame their server problems on the opposition like Liebermann did when his(edited) problem was a lack of bandwidth?
CNBC:
Badwater @ 113
3: It provides for undocumented workers who will be supplied by an independant contractor billed at Minimum wage commission to increase profit for the contractor and his community
Thank you for all your great feedback and support.
If only the politicians in Washington could take their lessons from people like you all …
Was the fence a no-bid contract?
From my scandals list,
Sit down and shut up!!! The Decider has decided and there is NOTHING you and you little ‘protest’ can do. YOU elected him you idiots in the valley. Now you get a fence, like it or not. Send in the guard to put this protest down. After all, they’re probably not even in a ‘free speech zone’.
And of course, once upon a time in China the Great wall was breached by the Mongolians and the Manchus. Now a wall built by the Dept. of Homeland Security’s sleazy contractors ?? That would just be plain ugly symbolism, not to mention ghettoization, and the desecration of the environemnt and age-old bonds of the borderlands etc.
Fresh thread from Tula on mine safety questions…
Marisa Treviño @ 117
Thank You Marisa for your leadership and your informative & enlightening post. You and your colleagues give new meaning to the old adage: Lead by doing!
Same thing is true of the Arizona and Cal. borders. The San Diego fence has been relinquished to nothing more than an ugly eyesore. Free trade via pharmacies and produce continue on despite racist rants by jerks like Issa and Tancredo.
Does anyone really believe Mexicans ever wanted to abandon their home country for good??
Fern @ 37
That’s the solution my dad proposes. Seriously.
Adie @ 96
You could count endangered Ocelots & several other species to your very astute listing, and come to realize very quickly why wildlife experts
Regarding Mexico’s being in arears over keeping up their promised contribution to the water level, -um-, how do you think they feel, when this charge comes from our country, which allows the whole bloomin’ thing literally to dry up to no flow at all, except from Mexico?
booosh administration might not be bothered by making such a stoopid charge, but I’m embarrassed FOR them. Hubris anyone?!
Claimer: I work with some of those wildlife experts, and should have labeled that question as rhetorical, because you can’t design a fence that will allow a man-sized animal through but keep people out.
Ocelots were the cats I couldn’t pull off the top of my cerebrum. Thanks.
As far as IBWC agreed contributions to Rio Grande flow go, I’m not sure what the net US status is, but my understanding is that we’re current when the river becomes the border. After that, it is (mostly, modulo Rio Puerco debts to Tejas) no longer New Mexico’s problem.
BC
>>a show of rare solidarity, unlike anywhere else seen in the country
I can show you another occurance: When the federal park service wanted to shut down street and build walls and fences around Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell (an irony apparantly lost on them), many people from all across the spectrum organized to prevent this. And they were successful in keeping our historic places, the birth place of American liberty, from being sealed away.
Bustednuckles No it was a cyclone or chain link fence which would just be quickly torched at the posts were you attach the chain link to the post.
It’s the same story in Northern New England. No on feels threatened and most people feel inconvenienced by the passports and increased border security and other attempts to disrupt otherwise congenial and easy access to Canada and from Canada to the US.
Bustednuckles @ 26
Gotta love your last line. May I steal it?
As a matter of fact, in the 2004 presidential election Hidalgo County in the Lower Rio Grande Valley voted 54.9% for Kerry/Edwards and 44.8% for Bush/Cheney. I still believe in the power of the citizenry to affect the direction of the country.
David @ 120
BC
Now you’ve really piqued my interest.
1. Are you comfortable telling me, in this forum, what it is your work entails? If you’d rather not get specific, I’ll understand. These are strange times. We’re both biologists. Hubby taught 30 yrs, retired. We both still stay in touch with other bio-nuts, attending seminars & such. Our special retirement joy has been finally being able to visit some of the most intriguing birds in the world in their own back yards, after he’s taught ornithology for decades. ;->
2. Are you indeed a countertenor?! My favorite music by far is Baroque period. Um, yeah, I enjoy listening to countertenors hold forth. Good friend of our son’s is indeed same. Hah! Bet you weren’t expecting that, of all things, heh.
Just, WOW!!
Iron Curtains, Berlin Walls and Stalinist voting system are all of a piece.
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“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” (–attributed to Josef Stalin)
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Wall against Mexico. Vote rigging on both sides of the fence.
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Cage people. Control people. Try to brainwash people. Hurt people. Bully people with constant “where are your papers?” harassments. Divide people. Scare people. Spy on people. Build fences around people, and between people. Steal from the people, hand over fist. Threaten people with Darth Vader cops and guns. Force them to pay for unjust war, torture, slaughter. Exploit them in every way. One union against another. One community against another. One religion against another. One ethnic against another. One tribe against another. Sell them all guns. Profit from the conflicts that you have instigated. One market against another, both selling poisoned goods. Outsource jobs to Mexico, and when the workers there organize and demand $3/hr, instead of $2/hr, outsource to Cambodia, where you can pay $.25/hr and not be bothered with unions or human rights.
How is this different from Stalinism and Nazism, with a few new Corporate Ruler twists?
Part of what they are trying to keep out is the democracy movement that is sweeping South America, and is boiling beneath the surface in Central America.
Voting counting in Venezuela is done with open source code programming, and they handcount 55% of the votes, as a check on machine fraud.
Here, it’s done with ‘trade secret’ programmming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with 0% handcount in many places, and only 1% in the best states.
The OAS, the Carter Center, EU election monitoring groups, and local civic groups are fast achieving election transparency–and, consequently, real democracy–in Latin America, with the most progress in South America.
The fascists don’t want that transparency to come here. They don’t want democracy and social justice to sneak across the border into the U.S.A. It is barely contained in Mexico.
And they hate it when people cooperate and communicate. Tex-Mex is a cultural leak point. It might come in there–word of social justice, rumors that you can actually elect a government that serves the interests of the poor majority. Lost by a hairsbreath in Mexico (0.05%), amidst hanky-panky. Might not lose next time. That’s what the wall is for–for when Mexico joins the Bolivarian Revolution.
It’s not to keep people out. (What do the oiligarchs care about slave wages workers, on either side of the border?) It’s to keep IDEAS out. Communication. Cooperation. Common purpose. Democracy.
As a Texan, I must say, if a fence is gonna be built, keep it on the north, east, and west sides of Texas. We are largely hispanic already. I would rather hang with my hard-working Mexican friends than some redneck from oklahoma with tobacco juice running down his chin. Just sayin..they don’t call them repugs for nothin..