Looking back, there was a part of the trial I “missed” and thus couldn’t share with you or comment upon. It happened before the trial itself actually started. I think if I had been as aware of it then as I am now, I would have forecast a much gloomier conclusion.
The issue centered around the question if Padilla was psychologically able to help his attorneys in his defense, whether he was mentally competent. Let Miami Herald reporter Fred Grimm, as he did January 18, 2007:
The accused was held in extreme isolation for 1,307 days. Held in a nine-by-seven-foot cell. The only window blacked out. He was the lone prisoner on the two-tier cellblock. He was given food through a slot in the door. He slept on a steel mattress. No reading material. No calendar. No clock. Nothing to connect him to the outside world.
But it was the short trip down the hallway for a dental examination that captured the utter isolation and sensory deprivation inflicted on Jose Padilla during his 3 ½ years in the Navy brig at Charleston, S.C.
Helmeted guards, their faces obscured behind dark plastic visors, manacled his hands and feet through slots in his cell door. They covered his ears with sound-canceling headphones, covered his eyes with blacked-out goggles.
Padilla, mind you, has been described by his jailers as docile “as a piece of furniture.”
At that point, after months of a dehumanizing interrogation regime, any useful information had long been squeezed from him.
Dr. Angela Hegarty, director of forensic psychiatry at the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center in Queens, N.Y. and assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University examined Padilla for a total of 22 hours. Thanks to an ironic twist of fate and timing, the very day the Padilla verdict came in, Democracy Now Amy Goodman, host and executive producer of Democracy Now! and co-host Juan Glonzales conducted an exclusive interview with Dr. Hegarty.
Padilla had refused to speak with his attorneys and they knew expert psychiatric help was necessary. Dr. Hegarty was called in:
He [Padilla] had developed really a tremendous identification with the goals and interests of the government. I really considered a diagnosis of Stockholm syndrome. For example, at one point in the proceedings, his attorneys had, you know, done well at cross-examining an FBI agent, and instead of feeling happy about it like all the other defendants I’ve seen over the years, he was actually very angry with them. He was very angry that the civil proceedings were “unfair to the commander-in-chief,” quote/unquote. And in fact, one of the things that happened that disturbed me particularly was when he saw his mother. He wanted her to contact President Bush to help him, help him out of his dilemma. He expected that the government might help him, if he was “good,” quote/unquote.
The second thing was his absolute state of terror, terror alternating with numbness…It was as though the interrogators were in the room with us. He was like…a trauma victim who knew that they were going to be sent back to the person who hurt them and that he …would subsequently pay a price if he revealed what happened…
In this very small cell, he was monitored twenty-four hours a day, and the doors were managed electronically….He had no way of knowing the time. The light was always artificial. The windows were blackened. He had no calendar or time, as you mentioned earlier. He really didn’t see people, especially in the beginning. He only had contact with his interrogators. (LZK Note: Padilla had to be charged with a crime. He was experiencing this as a presumed innocent man.)
AMY GOODMAN: Did you conclude he had been tortured?
DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: Well, “torture,” of course, is a legal term. However, as a clinician, I have worked with torture victims and, of course, abuse victims for a few decades now, actually. I think, from a clinical point of view, he was tortured.
This was the first time I ever met anybody who had been isolated for such an extraordinarily long period of time. I mean, the sensory deprivation studies, for example, tell us that without sleep, especially, people will develop psychotic symptoms, hallucinations, panic attacks, depression, suicidality within days. And here we had a man who had been in this situation, utterly dependent on his interrogators, who didn’t treat him all that nicely, for years. And apart from — the only people I ever met who had such a protracted experience were people who were in detention camps overseas, that would come close, but even then they weren’t subjected to the sensory deprivation. So, yes, he was somewhat of a unique case in that regard.
AMY GOODMAN: How afraid was Jose Padilla?
DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: How to capture that in an apt metaphor? He was terrified. For him, the government was all-powerful. The government knew everything. The government knew everything that he was doing. His interrogators would find out every little detail that he revealed. And he would be punished for it.
He was convinced that — I mean, I think in words he endorsed — even if he won his case, he lost, because he was going back to the brig if he managed to prevail at trial. And essentially, if hypothetically one were to offer him a really long prison sentence versus — with a guarantee that he wouldn’t go back to the brig — versus risking going back to the brig, the chance that he might go back to the brig, he would take the prison sentence for a very long period of time. I think he would take almost anything rather than go back to that brig.
AMY GOODMAN: What happened in the brig?
DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: What happened at the brig was essentially the destruction of a human being’s mind. That’s what happened at the brig. His personality was deconstructed and reformed.
One of the things that came out in the course of my evaluation was, he was required to sign his name John Doe. This kind of thing and the whole notion of dependency and the cultivation of dependency, the impact of sleep deprivation, stress positions, all of that was so coordinated it’s impossible for me to imagine that at least at some phase there wasn’t some mental health professionals involved.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And what was the reason for wanting to have him sign his name John Doe?
DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: He’s no longer a person. He’s no longer an individual. There will be no record that he was ever there, that the interrogators — this is from my knowledge of torture around the world — that the interrogators essentially will be absolutely immune to any accountability.
Read the entire interview for yourself.
You be the judge, not Judge Cooke. What’s your verdict?
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zero?
Damn, Lew, hopefully this Kangaroo Court will be exposed for what it was!!! 8-(
Hi Lew, I heard it this morning. It was heartbreaking.
Apparently, our government tortures to the point of brain damage…somehow, I believe there will be some justice down the line – if not for Padilla, it will come because of what happened to him and possibly countless others. Our country has truly lost its way.
OT with apologies: Barbara Boxer has a piece up on Huffington about the Repug power grab in California that may impact the 2008 elections. Plus there is a petition (all state residents are encouraged to sign it because it will impact us all) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..60728.html
CTuttle at 2
This happened to me once before. I was at NBC News showing film, up close and personal, of Chicago police beating the living daylights out of students at the 1968 Democratic National Convention. They were great pictures filled with blood and teeth and broken bones as billy clubs whipped away. The phone at NBC rang off the hooks.
It was Chicagoans calling who said, “Hey I saw the film of the police beating the kids.” (Pause) “Right on for the police.”
LS @ 3
what LS said
Lew, the Associated press has this story up by Curt Anderson. Any thoughts on Anderson and/or his reporting?
I believe in the jury system.
I wonder about this one.
Does anyone have a straight up and down analysis of the evidence in the Padilla case?
I am ashamed of my govt.
I don’t get it. We’ve made this American citizen lose his mind. Forever. For what?
Oh Lew. Just heartbreaking…and infuriating…and more reason than ever to keep on working to change things. Because this doesn’t get to rest as how things ought to be. Not. Ever.
Verdict?
Police state. And there is no end in sight.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 11
Agreed. Every word.
Scarecrow at 7
Curt Anderson and one other AP guy I know I considered the #1 and #2 reporters in the entire system. He never blew it. He went as far as any AP person could do, always reminding people at the end of each story about Padilla’s first arrest and how the charges changed and changed. I admire him greatly.
Our children may look back at our time, from the future, and find that there was no one watershed event whereby we gave away our individual freedoms. Rather it will be show to have been little dribbles and rivulets of human rights, slowly draining away what was a once proud nation drawing upon a reservoir of liberty.
The Padilla case, is a good sized crack in the dam. The more you show us, Lew, the more disgusting it becomes.
The man was obviously abused, tormented, terrified, tortured… whatever word we use it was immoral, and unethical and probably illegal.
I would think the jury knowing about all his treatment by the US gov for 5 years would cry out for dismissal or acquittal.
If the jury didn’t know it then I wonder what they will say now that they do when the listen to the tape of Dr. Hagerty. I think there may be buyer’s remorse. If not I can’t imagine how a jury of american would convict someone who has been so abused in custody.
To me this level of abuse should be a get out of jail free card even if you were jack the ripper. The state must make a clean case.
What we saw seems to be way way way over the top.
It should be interesting to see how the MSM spins/squares the verdict with Dr. Hagerty’s “testimony”.
But then again, many Americans believe that some people should be treated worse than the most crazed animal… You know the ones… with dark skin.
Lew Koch @ 10
For some sick demented bastards vision of power.
For nothing.
It is revolting.
Lew Koch @ 5
If history is any guide, Denver’08, may be a repeat performance…!!! The masses are pissed…!!!
This is so sick. I am ashamed of my Government. I am ashamed of my country for tolerating this. I am ashamed of my Congresspersons for tolerating this.
Bob in HI
Christy Hardin Smith @ 11
What Christy said.
Lew Koch @ 10
We didn’t, Lew. This is a government run amok. It has divorced itself from “we”.
more from the interview:
Please let’s not anyone forget that padilla is an American. Not a foreign terrorist. Our government did this to one of US. What do the wingnuts say to that?
Whomever was responsible for treating Jose that way should be turned over to the Hague.
I am sick of the Bushies saying I did not know there were no WMD
I did not know Pat Tillman was shot by Americans at close range, in the back and, not Al Quieda. I am sick of Mr “Charge to Keep” and his flunkies avoiding responsibilty.
Gonzo is the head of the Justice Dept he should just be turned over to the Hague where he can await trial in Jail no bail ever again for a Bushie!
I do not believe that the American Justice system can try Gonzo.
I suspect that Amnesty International and other international human rights groups will call this trial for what it was. A travesty of justice and a political show trial of the worst kind. We are on the level of Stalin and Sadam.
Scarecrow at 8
I was just about to recommend you look at at Christy Harden Smith and her comments about jury, when all of a sudden, she comes up at #11.
I feel like I did the moment I met her in Chicago…she opened her arms and gave me a very welcomed hug. I could use it now — Joanne’s teaching tonight and won’t be here for three more hours. So, FDLakers, I’ll take what I can get from you.
Christy — What happened here to pervert the jury system?
Come on everybody. Let’s get behind this torture thing. This is so contrary to everything this country stands for. We need to unite around it. I can’t stand that Congress is not out there condemning this at every turn. This must be stopped. We must do something.
And this is why Habeas Corpus is so important.
Look… he was dark skinned.. he converted to the insane jihadi religion of suicide bombers and he visited the ME… he was one of them… and patriotic Americans treated him like the treasonous monster he was.
How many Americans participated in his torture? MANY MANY MANY
The Homeland tortures American citizens!!
Lew, we need to hug each other. We need to cry for what we’ve lost. And then we need to set about getting our country back.
One hopeful thing in all this: there’s not a death sentence. Padilla may still be alive when truth can come out, and some small part of justice can be repaired.
Regardless of what he did or did not do, there is no excuse in the world for this torture. May all who had a part in it come to some sort of awareness of what they have done, and may they find forgiveness.
SanderO at 16 and 25
Oh yes.
Lew Koch @ 5
That was a defining moment in my life. Just turned 16. Watching the TV with a friend, absolutely horrified. A liberal friend of my parents (big backer of HHH) joined us for a few minutes, left muttering something like “serves the filthy bastards right”. She was a woman of some influence (and married to a man with even more) among old-school liberals, and I had always looked up to her.
Oh Lew, I hadn’t heard the news today. Terrible. This article/interview is bone-chilling.
I despair for our country. What have we become?
Thank you for your diligence in bringing this to at least several thousand people. Your questions last night about asking what we all are going to do to restore our integrity is right on.
do-si-do
I don’t really believe that there is a hell, which is really pissing me off at the moment. What was done to this man is almost beyond words – unspeakable evil, done in our names – all of us. The excerpt from the psychiatrist makes me physically ill.
I never believed in true evil, either, but thanks to my government, I’m re-examining that position.
Onward to the appellate process, which, now having this in hindsight, was Padilla’s only real chance from the beginning.
I’m sure the prosecutors are partying tonight, and that makes me even angrier.
TexBetsy @ 23
Actually, I’d prefer to think of Padilla as a human, and not allow the wingnuts to argue this kind of treatment would be/was okay if he was a “terrorist.”
The real irony is Padilla “may” have conspired or was connected to al-Qaida (all of this is according to our reich wing fringe government), but in the end, it was Padilla who never did harm Americans, but as an American himself, he was tortured for years by the American government.
I need a cocktail.
TexBetsy at 32
I’m cutting back on my book buying by one book a month. That money is going to pols who won’t fight this kind of system.
We need to find out who is responsible for inflicting this kind of torture. John Doe or no.
The responsible persons need to be held accountable. This is not America.
Torturing American citizens is treasonous.
things come undone @ 24
Hague! Hague! Hague!
Scarecrow @ 38
I agree completely, but the dichotomy exists in THEIR minds between “us” and “them”. I know how they justify doing this to “them” but I wonder how they justify doing this to one of “us”. The answer seems to be that being American is not the issue. I hate that race and ethnicity are still an excuse.
Where do we live? What is this place? I don’t recognize it anymore. This is not the country I remember. How did we let this happen! What’s wrong with us? This is America, the home of the free? I think not!
pardon me while i puke!! – in america… ?? oh man are we being fooled – we get rid of a “dictator” then we adopt the things he’s done to his people? god it just gets worse – we are sinking into depravity under bushco’s watch – i fear for my children and grandchildren
Lew,
Hat tip to you for your work on the case. This AM I heard Dr. Hagerty and I actually cried as I was having breakfast alone. I can’t believe my neighbors could do this to another human being.
It’s not just John Yoo, or Rummy or Cheney… our neighbors are carrying out these treatments… flying the rendition plans… donning the black masks and doing the water torture.
The American Psychiatric Association is having a huge debate about MDs involved in these interrogations. Imagine MDs participate in this stuff.
What happened to the Abu Graib pics we couldn’t see… why can’t they be put up on the internet?
I am sick to my stomach… and it ain’t from what I ate. It’s from what I heard.
The people at Democracy Now! deserve a huge shout out for a brilliant interview with a woman of honor. By the way, I don’t know where the APAs, and the other psych groups are on this torture business, but I sure as hell am going to find out and report.
Notice you don’t see BushCo crowing about all the great information they gleaned from him about all of his most excellent connections with Al Queada or all of the devious attacks that were imminent.
Jesus, I’ll second the motion, I need a cocktail too.
See you tomorrow.
The government’s actions have been abominable, and the jury’s verdict is so disheartening.
Lew, one other thing or two. Did the trail court ever rule on the ability of Padilla to present evidence of his treatment. I thought there was a ruling limiting that — one of your earlier posts?
And the playing of the OBL video — do you recall what the ruling on its admissability turned on?
LS @ 42
I cannot get my mind around this thing. Even the most reviled loathsome serial killer gets treated better before during and after trial than what happened to Padilla.
yellowsnapdragon @ 43
Thanks I’m feelin sad today about this.
Let’s assume the judge was honest (honest to the law).
Let’s assume a vigorous prosecution.
And a vigorous defense.
Why this outcome?
CTuttle @ 18
It should more properly be in Minneapolis in ‘08 than in Denver, if we want to get the appropriate people on the hot seat.
TexBetsy @ 44
Their worldview is based on “us” and “them”. And don’t question too closely who “us” is.
Bustednuckles at 49 (and others)
A decade ago I would have made a serious dent in the single malt or Irsh.
The way I see it Bushco has successfully created an American citizen terrorist out of thin air.. and managed to torture, hold for years, deny council before brainwash was complete.. and now had him convicted with poorly manufactured BS evidence on revolving charges.
No one does this sort of thing without full intention of doing it again to whomever they want. And who is going to be able to stop this, much more, reverse it?
jose is our man in the iron mask.
there is something[S] that he was[HAS BEEN] involved in, as a u s intell asset, that required him to be destroyed mentally.
i have thought him to have been involved in OKBOMB.
for me, the major mystery is why he wasn’t “deadened” or “disappeared”. i suppose what was done to him was intended to be instructive to the “sheep”. get out of line, and this is what i, emperor george, can have done to you… and no one will be able to save you from my homicidal machinations, since i am the emperor of the planet.
Jonathan @ 54
Invalid assumptions?
There are circumstances like these, that even one of conscience strives mightly not wish the very same treatment on those who approved and are responsible for this torturous torment.
And they do this in our name???
We need to hear what the jury has to say… I sure hope that when they know what we know they will shout foul.
But what if they don’t? What if these jurors believe that the gov protected us and they did their part?
Is that possible?
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..s-to-come/
Tony Snowjob is resigning, and possibly others before Labor Day.
Lew Koch @ 48
I would be very interested in what you find out. I noticed that the doctor quoted above states that “torture” is “a legal term”. I didn’t know that. Cheney calls it “enhanced interrogation techniques” so don’t let them dodge by parsing definitions etc. Maybe they have their own definitions, etc., and that would be interesting to know about to. JMHO.
I can’t even read the articles. I can even hear about the torture. And I think any psychologist who participated in stripping this man of his emotional well being should lose his license. But I now live in Bush’s amerika. It’s no longer my beloved america.
I just can’t bear to even read about it. I can’t stop it. I am powerless to change this.
What are we to do? Our president can now arrest, torture us and kill us if he thinks we support alqueda.
I just cannot understand why no one cares. It’s like being in a nightmare.
The government’s own actions have been so criminal and have so tainted any legitimate judicial process that it raises the question: Who is more guilty? The government or Padilla? This is not how a justice system is supposed to work, the Spanish Inquistion maybe, but certainly not the justice system in what was once a democratic nation.
Lew, to you: congratulations for being there. You were there to cover and report it, the day a jury put a stamp of approval on the methods of the Homeland. Your coverage of this trial, even aside from your stellar earlier work, may very well be referred to 100 years from now. You have made a singular contribution to the Truth, as well as been probably the only voice anywhere in the media that has stood up and said,”Stop this!”
You are the man. I totally envy you.
Lew – a moment to thank you very genuinely for your coverage of this case, your passion in showing us all what was really happening, and the unspeakable venality that was this case.
I wouldn’t have known shit about this case if it weren’t for you, and thanks for that. I hope you can help us all follow it as it proceeds forward, hopefully to the S.Ct.
I am going to step away and what the Mozart show on PBS. I need something uplifting on this vary sad day.
LS @ 42
Please forgive the correction.
On topic
Scarecrow at 51
The Judge ruled that all that “stuff” took place outside the conspiracy box the G had placed him in. The brig was just where he was “housed” while the G went about figuring out what they wanted to do.
(I’m actually having flashbacks on what I read from Dr, Hegarty)
RonD @ 66
Likewise. Great work, Lew. We really appreciate all you’ve done, it’s been very important.
TexBetsy @ 59
In a trial, rules of evidence govern what the prosecution and the defense can present to the jury.
The jury is the trier of fact.
What happened here to cause the jury to believe Padilla violated some (i.e., a particular) law?
I’m waiting for some lawyers here to answer.
sensory deprivation is fucking CRAZY. On top of that he survived 3.5 years of isolated imprisonment.
Being an American, I’m sure it really fucked his mind up too, cos he was probably expecting some sort of counsel or phone call or something. Not interrogation and torture.
Until proven otherwise..This is what any homegrown terrorists or foreign disrupters should expect when bringing terrorism to U.S. soil. This is the silver lining. I also believe, Padilla’s sentencing will pump some fresh blood into the conservative movement.
Their M.O. is to say, We are not spying on American, yet they are outsourcing it to AT&T.
They say, We do not torture, because they are probably outsourcing torture.
We must stop this and stop it now.
Lew, thank you so much for telling us about this case each week. And thank you for being here this evening.
My verdict is that I want to throw up. What Dr. Hegerty described shouldn’t happen to any human being for any reason whatsoever.
Lew Koch @ 48
Lew,
The American Psychological Association’s annual convention starts tomorrow in San Francisco. My friend, a longtime member, is appalled that they have no formal position on members participating in torture. He is seriously considering resigning his membership if the convention does not adequately address this moral issue.
dakine01 @ 69
Quite right. I just mean that under the law, we can get them on torturing Americans. It is harder to nail them when it occurs outside of the f**king Homeland.
katie jensen at 64
I could have poured another 1,000 words into what the Government psychologist said and did. What the psychologist defended is the same professional disgrace as a psychologist or psychiatrist sleeping with a patient.Rape. And the psychologists who said their behavior was correct should be thrown out of the profession.
Jonathan @ 73
You’ll hopefully forgive me if I’m very brief. From Lew’s reports, it certainly appeared that *numerous* judicial errors were made on evidentiary matters. I also mentioned something last night about the extent to which the jury could very well find themselves to be feeling to be “protectors of America”, and that it was thus their patriotic duty to convict.
And remember, this was a US citizen on US soil. Imagine how much worse it is for those in Guantanamo.
LS @ 76
My tinfoil radar went off today when I read the story about AT&T sending such detailed bills to iPhone users that the paper had to be shipped in a box. Who else gets to see all that detail???
RodD and Jane:
You guys make this all possible.
Here’s what is getting me riled up (not like I’m not always riled up), but now the bastids can point to 12 jurors basically supporting his conviction.
We must get the torture information out to the public.
OT: has anyone seen this article from the British First Post href=”http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1&subID=1147″>www.thefirstpost.co.uk
regarding Saudi preparing for war?
After 911, didn’t GB say he wouldn’t let the terrorists come here and take our freedoms away?
Hugh @ 65
Hugh — mind if I use that?
Jane makes it possible. I am but a lowly apprentice.
Folks, the jury almost always gets it right.
The “almost” applies because sometimes there’s a stacked deck, such as prosecutorial misconduct (as happened in Illinois in certain death penalty cases).
Was there prosecutorial misconduct here?
Was there defense counsel slumped over the table in drunken repose?
What happened here at trial?
Scarecrow @ 88
It’s yours.
the damage bushco has inflicted on this country will last for years – they have beaten down the spirit of the country with cries of terror terror terror so that we’ll accept anything that diminishes our freedoms – i am very pessimistic about the future of this country – its ust sad…
Hugh @ 66
Right. And the best way to remedy injustice is with justice. Let’s get the real criminals behind bars.
I referred to this last night but it needs emphasis: The Prisoner of Guantanamo by Dan Fesperman, though a novel, has brought this torture business crystal clear.
There is a concept by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky – as above, so below. The people reflect the behavior and beliefs of those in authority. If a negative regime rules with violence, the people will conduct themselves in like manner. Just a few will resist. Most will follow.
The Bush Regime no longer surprises me with its violence and hate towards people. Americans have become sheep either just following along or remaining silent after a whining protest. The country is less for the destruction of Padilla. His body, mind spirit twisted beyond recognition. I’m certain BushCo is giggling now as they celebrate their ability and power to destroy America.
My main emotion is shame. Deep shame.
What are the possibilities of appealing this judgment?
So Ossama still walks free and is likely to take over Pakistan because Bush is a moron. But the anger we have for Ossama who we can’t bring to trial is turned against Jose because somebody has to be punished.
Lew Koch @ 48
Lew: The Amer. Medical Assoc and the Amer. Psychiatric Assoc came out last year against their members participating in the interrogation of prisoners of war. To the great shame of many of us in the American Psychological Assoc, the APA did not. This week, at its annual convention in S.F., there will be a vote regarding this. Some wonderful people have been intensely involved in this for over a year. I’m ready to quit the organization if the APA can’t do what’s right.
The interrogation techniques at Guantanomo were created in part by 2 military psychologists. As it turns out, a former APA president had a minority share in a private firm linked to CIA detention and interrogation of prisoners. What would we do without Amy Goodman?
My work is in forensic and clinical psychology. I’m outraged and ashamed at what is happening.
Laura L. Doty, Ph.D.
Lew Koch @ 48
amen – democracy now! is, imo, the best daily news program. my most important source of daily news – highly recommend it for everyone, not to be missed.
wrt to the APAs, the American Psychiatric Association is doing a good job and will have nothing to do with these “nterrogations”. the American Psychological Association on the other hand, is very very dirty. democracy now! has been covering this story for some time now. and from today’s interview:
i recall multiple reports from democracy now! on the conflict within the American Psychological Association during the last few months.
Chicago 1968 and Kent State were terrible. This is much, much worse. What a country I’ve bequeathed to my children. Jesus f*cking wept.
Thinking Southerner @ 86
Sorry, am a newbie at the linking, so you may have to type in address to obtain article.
morphed @ 87
Oooh! Nice point. Little did we know that that was because he and his cronies planned to take our freedoms away themselves!
Feh.
FunnyDiva
PS
Thanks, Lew for covering this. Like a previous commenter, I wouldn’t have known jack sh*t about this trial without your work.
Jonathan @ 91
My two cents: the two non native defendents were “dirty” and Padilla got lumped in. The group as a whole was found guilty. IMHO. I had wondered why Padilla wasn’t tried separately?
jayt at 91
I understand stacked decks.
But I look at the Libby jury.
They didn’t cave.
We must get the torture information out to the
public.Jury!!I’m sorry, but I don’t feel any sympathy toward a jury so gullible and irresponsible as to come back with verdicts so insanely quickly in an obviously complicated case.
They didn’t do their job. They *couldn’t* have done their job this quickly. They punted. Fuck ‘em.
Sorry. Let them live with it.
things come undone @ 24
I’m sick of George the Blind saying “We don’t torture.” He’s a liar, or delusional, or both.
I’m looking for some better metaphor than “blind.” How about “Hollow-eyed”? “George with Blinders”? “selectively sighted”?
Bob in HI
Lew, You did hero’s work. It will help you to know that people know that you made history; you’re modest, but it’s really history.
oregondave @ 78
This morning on Forum one of KQED’s radio shows they had a very, very interesting hour on the APA’s culpability in this.
Click here
Some of the callers were completely outraged with the excuse making of Stephen Behnke of the APA as was I
Jonathan at 90
I grewup with a radio program called Mr. District Attorney. (It came on after The Big Story.)
Anyway, it used to be introduced with something having to do with prosecuting the guilty as well as protecting the innocent. Something got lost. Although I will tell you I met one “Mr. District Attorney” so I know they exist.
Jonathan @ 91
My one experience on a jury did not lead me to that conclusion. Civil case; judge that slept and exerted no control; smart, nerdy lawyer for the plaintiff; crafty actor for the defense. Evidence overwhelming, but the jury bought the actor, hook, line and sinker. All except for one. Civil case, so I didn’t count.
Thank goodness there are strong appeal issues
Shameful.
Laura Doty @ 99
Thank you Dr. Doty, for sharing this. Those military psychologists should look up the phrase “conflict of interest” and recuse themselves. I hope everyone at the APA convention knows about this tidbit. or will learn it.
Patrick McGoohan was right. Padilla was an extreme case, but America is becoming The Village.
Lew:
Here’s the American Nurses Association House of Delegates stance on prisoner and detainee torture and mistreatment:
The HOD requests that ANA adopt principles that advocate for prisoners’ and detainees’ right to health care and humane treatment, ensure that RNs do not voluntarily participate in any deliberate infliction of physical or mental suffering, and hold the Code of Ethics for Nurses as a set of precepts that encompass all nursing activities and that may supersede specific policies of institutions or employers.
The resolution also asks for ANA to condemn interrogation procedures that are harmful to mental and physical health and to advocate for counseling and support for RNs who speak out about acts of torture and abuse.
Sorry for the OT but Hepting v ATT and the Gov’t on C-span 2 if people are intereseted. NSA spying case
Garre getting reamed by one of the judges right now.
Amy Goodman and staff, at Democracy Now!, as well, have also stood up from the beginning on this case. DN was my original source of info and has been a continuing resource as well. I had the privilege of meeting Amy on a speaking tour in Tampa 3 years ago, and it was an honor to shake her hand. Lew, should circumstances ever conspire to make it so, it will likewise be a pleasure to shake yours.
Jonathan @ 103
From Lew’s descriptions, I was consistently getting the feeling that Padilla’s lawyers weren’t doing nearly as much as they should have. I wasn’t there, so I could be completely wrong. But I never heard any description of the attorneys screaming at the tops of their lungs as the judicial errors stacked up, leaving a mountain of prejudicial evidence, eventually too high to get over or around.
What can one say?….It’s just inhuman.
It’s not just the ones that give the orders, but the ones that carry them out…how do they live with themselves.
Lew, When the jury watched the Osama tape, I thought that could have been misconduct on the prosecutions part. At that point I held out little hope but at least thought there would be a hung jury. Have you thought about collaborating with Dr. Hegarty on a book. Most Americans are unaware of the abuse that took place under the name of freedom.
I’m beginning to think that we’ll have to rebuild this country from scratch, it’s that broken.
emal @ 115
thank you
things come undone @ 98
Two thirds of Pakistan has been longing for the return of democracy and law in someone like Bhutto. The other third is completely ungovernable by anyone.
selise at 99
I remember being with a group that had been labeled as “radical feminist psychologist.” I was covering the annual American Psychological annual meeting. The women wanted the APA to gon on record of completely censoring the behavior of a psychologist sleeping with his (yes, his) patient. They refused so the radical feminists upped the ante and called for punishment for such psychologists — castration. At least things were clear for those types.
Biden’s son is scheduled to go to Iraq next year. (KO) Maybe this will help end the occupation?
I missed it…..KO just said Arrianna broke some news. What did I miss?
Parallax @ 118
More than inhuman. Evil.
Loo Hoo. @ 125
That’s it. Thanks LooHoo.
This is just so sad. Any guesses around this getting to SCOTUS? Any guesses oh how Kennedy will come down on the many many issues? Is there a defense fund. If there is, any guesses about what risks contributors would run?
In a way, I’m almost hoping this doesn’t get to SCOTUS because it will be so so bad if they say everything is kosher.
In any case Lew, thank you for keeping us informed on this.
ccmask @ 125
Biden son, JAG, to go to Iraq.
GordonM @ 110
Gordon M — I tried a few cases in west central Illinois in the early to mid 1970s. The judges didn’t know the law. Opposing counsel gamed the judges. I know what you say.
But that’s not the situation in the Padilla trial. The judge wasn’t sleeping and knew what he was doing. The prosecutors were doing their best. Defense counsel were doing their best.
Lew
While you are giving credit to so many others, as I’ve observed you often do, we are very grateful to you for including us in this case with your excellent reporting and insight.
Thank you. It had to be painful for you to witness this injustice to another human. The one good thing for Padilla is that he has you recording this for history.
padilla has been reduced to a shell of himself – even with an appeal he’s been destroyed – who’s to pay for the damage done to him?
juslin @ 132
it’s not possible to pay for the damage done.
From the AP article that Scarecrow link to at comment 7. “The White House thanked the jury for a “just” verdict.” At first it made me sick and then I realized that it’s the same comment made about the jury for Libby. just different outcome
This comes from the AMEDD
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
SUBJECT: Approval of Findings and Recommendations of Functional Assessment(pdf):
LS @ 42
And as far as I’m concerned, torturing *anyone* is immoral. George Bush obviously believes that “might makes right.”
Bob in HI
jayt
On Padilla’s lawyers. I can only tell you I personally do not know either of the two Florida Federal PD. Andy Patel who has been with Padilla from almost the very beginning was forbidden to talk with me thanks to Judge Cooke’s gag order.
What kind of lawyering did Padilla get. If memory serves, federal public defenders are very bright. But they were in a situation where I now firmly believe was stacked against them.
The Judge’s rulings made it impossible for the jury to see what Padilla had experienced. And for her to joke about seeing Padilla joke with his attorneys — You guys read what Hegarty said about how Padilla felt about his attorneys. He was paranoid with the Stockholm syndrome thrown in. Sorry, Judge Cooke gets failing marks from me.
Jonathan @ 131
Well, I guess the real point is that the jury room was immediately taken over by a couple high powered personalities who were enamored of the defense actor-lawyer and offended by the nerdiness of the plaintiff’s lawyer (and the stuffiness of the plaintiff). It was nearly Lord of the Flies, with an all adult (mostly retired) cast. It was really quite frightening.
Padilla is a civilian, being held by civil authorities, in a public facility( or subcontractor). Unless he’s still being held incommunicado, publicity could possibly be useful here.
/////drumroll/////
Why not interview Padilla himself on live TV?
N=1 @ 137
My recollection of this is that DoD changed policy after the AMA and Amer Psychiat. came out against member participation. (The announcement being a WTF moment for me.)
Real mess.
One thing to consider. We are looking at the full picture. The government invented the dirty bomber thing, they illegally detained, they tortured, etc. We are outraged that the government gets a conviction rather than a major slap for injustice.
But the jury is examining much more narrow charges with much less context. And it’s even possible that Padilla was guilty of some of those charges. Not likely, but possible.
So I think the jury rendered what they thought was an honest verdict.
Lew Koch @ 124 –
wow. that’s a story. i’m more for locking them up and throwing away the key. hard to beleive the APA wouldn’t censor.
more recent reporting from democracy now! on the role of in psychologists in the torture “interrogations”:
Monday, July 30th, 2007
Rorschach and Awe: As Opposition Grows Over the APA’s Policy Allowing Psychologists to Take Part in Military Interrogations, Vanity Fair Exposes How Two Psychologists Shaped the CIA’s Torture Methods
Monday, June 25th, 2007
The CIA’s Torture Teachers: Psychologists Helped the CIA Exploit a Secret Military Program to Develop Brutal Interrogation Tactics
Friday, June 1st, 2007
“The Task Force Report Should Be Annulled” – Member of 2005 APA Task Force on Psychologist Participation in Military Interrogations Speaks Out
and looks like there will be more of this weekend’s APA conference and protests.
Lew,
I really appreciate your articles, I’ve read them all very closely.
That said, I can’t believe you hadn’t heard about this torture of Padilla before this. It’s been reported before, although not quite in this much detail. The completely inhumane isolation, his terror of his own lawyers, the absolute destruction of his personality — this was known. I’m somewhat shocked that this wasn’t mentioned by his lawyers — they jury should have known about this.
Thad Beier
Lightning striking all over the place. See you guys later.
Laura Doty @ 98
Thanks for sharing your point of view, Dr. Doty!
FunnyDiva
I’m just Laura at the Lake. I signed all my initials this time just because I feel I ought to identify myself completely when commenting on this topic.
Jonathan @ 132
This is a direct result of the CIA being involved in this society contrary to its mandate.
These techniques that were used on Padilla go back to Stalin and Hitler, these are things the CIA learned from the Nazis they liberated from Germany so the godless commies wouldn’t get them. These are the things the Gehlen organization gave the CIA so that the West German government could be inundated by former Nazis who the Allies helped to escape justice.
This is the direct result of Richard Helms lying to Frank Church under oath while George H W Bush was CIA director in 1976 telling the committee that all CIA records on Project ARTICHOKE and MKULTRA had been destroyed without anyone from Congress ever demanding to determine for themselves whether or not the records had been destroyed. With George H W Bush as head of the agency, I believe they were not destroyed but that the group of people who knew about them was made very small, probably within Team B which Bush created to force a wedge within the agency itself.
There is blood on the hands of the Bush family and the entire family is guilty of treason to one degree or another.
If we ever come out of this morass we are in there needs to be a serious broom taken to the CIA, DIA, ONI, NSA, FBI, and whatever other agencies have spied on and abused Americans in the name of the greater good.
This is the legacy of the Bush family…may every single one of them rot in hell.
RonD @ 146
Take care Ron
TexBetsy @ 44
And who, indeed, are “us”? There is a famous statement in the Holocaust Museum by Pastor Martin Niemuller. It says,
Nowadays, you could start the list with “terrorists”, and then substitute “Moslem” for “Jew,” and “illegal immigrant” for “Catholic”, and you could make a similar case against what is happening now. In fighting for the end of persecution of any minority, we are not only fighting for them. We are fighting for freedom and democracy and hope and possibility for everyone.
Bob in HI
Lew –
I heard the news today (oh boy) and thought immediately of you [as well as Mr. Padilla himself, of course, and how his brain must be so badly fried through all of this horror.]
I won’t be able to read the comments here until maybe later tonight, but I wanted to let you know that the reason I haven’t written to you yet (about my father-in-law’s WWII torture experience in a prison camp) isn’t because I’m ignoring you.
Having just started a new job, and trying hard to hold up in spite of disability-induced fatigue, and preparing for a trip soon (our first-ever vacation!!!), I don’t even get a chance to blow my nose, much less write coherently about that historical — and personal — situation.
I’ll be dropping you a line after our trip, if that’s OK with you. We’re leaving the end of this month and coming back mid-September. Is that OK?
God bless you, Lew, for all the good work you’ve done on this horrific “legal” case.
p.s (added in an edit) — I want to be able to dig out the boxes containing my F-I-L’s notebooks before writing to you, in any event. That’s why I need a bit of time.
thanks for everything lew – it ain’t over yet.
please see me @68.
We’ll see ya soon?
Bob. I quite agree with you. Niemuller’s quote has been running through my head since I heard the Padilla decision. And if we’re not fighting, we’ve become good–you should pardon the expression–Germans.
Our country has become a shadow land.
Laura Doty @ 99 -
thank you for fighting against what the APA is doing. i’m hoping things will change after this weekend’s conference.
My comment to the APA:
“Since our Federal Government has participated in torture on a gross scale beginning in 2001 why hasn’t the American Psychological Association taken a stand on this moral and mental health issue? This is not a political issue.”
APA President
james @ 149
Personally, I trace the rot back to the Dulles brothers, but otherwise, I’m with you.
james @ 149
Hey, James.
Getting short?
I know what you say.
My question is about the jury. The jury is supposed to be the big protection of our democracy. I’ve disagreed with the jury — e.g., in the O.J. case. But even there, I understood the jury’s distrust of the L.A. police.
FWIW, I continue to think the jury almost always gets it right (the “almost” having to do with stuff withheld from the jury).
RonD @ 141
Go back and read the top post. It would be cruel and painful to Padilla. There is no way he could speak honestly, because he lives in fear of being sent back to the brig, to receive more mental abuse from his tormentors. It would be torture for him to try to figure out what to say so as to minimize further harm to himself. Any such interview would be a really bad idea, if Hegarty is to be believed.
Bob in HI
Lew, Thanks again. I do hope that you will consider writing a book about Padilla. His treatment should not be forgotten.
What is AT&T doing for the government and why? AT&T is starting to sound like a great big bunch of traitors to the American public. No?
You know, I’d be interested in knowing how the torture of political prisoners and “enemy combatants” etc. relates to practices and conditions in the prison industry. I think it is no accident that, for example, a bunch of the guards at Abu Graib were former prison guards. Do we know of anyone who has been doing work on this?
So what are the odds that Bush is just waiting for the sentencing to commute?
Probably aren’t numbers that small.
One justice for Bush cronies (who could spill the beans), another for everyone else.
And still more madness.
TexBetsy @ 23
To the general public the wingnuts are saying”
“This was a message. Get out of line, and we’ll come for YOU, next.”
Plain and simple. It was psychological terron upon the masses, ’specially the dissenting ones.
GordonM @ 157
The Dulles boys were good friends of Prescott Bush and helped him get off on the Trading with the Enemy charges.
selise @ 155
Thank you, but I am just a very tiny potato. The person who deserves enormous credit and thanks is Steven Reisner, Ph.D.
Does anyone else see parallels between the Jose Padilla case and the Rolondo Cruz case in Illinois? Juries several times found Rolondo guilty but the Dupage County cops and the prosecutors framed him.
They even had Brian Dugan a convicted serial killer willing to confess to the crimes in return for no death penalty but the Prosecutors ignored that
Still the Republican Prosecution pushed forward until one day everyone in Illinois was aware of what went on. Rolondo got Pardoned and two of his former prosecutors lost their bids for state wide office.
Then George Ryan our Republican governor ended the death penalty in our state before he got in trouble for selling drivers licenses.
I’m sure Karl would like to blame the destruction of the Illinois Republican party on the license scandal, a minister’s family was killed in a traffic accident with an Illegal driving a truck.
But the 2 Prosecutors in the Rolondo case lost first, then that millionaire Ryan who took his wife (7 of 9 of star trek fame to a sex club she didn’t want to go to, she cried then divorced him) then the GOP ran Alan Keyes who’s daughter had just came out. I think Judy Barr Topekia is the only GOPer still holding office in illinios state government.
Railroading a hispanic from Dupage County is what started the death of the GOP in illinois.
Maybe the GOP railroading a hispanic from Chicago might be the start of the end of the GOP nationwide.
By the way Thomas Frisbie has a great short book on the trial.
xaxnar @ 115
Oh, man, The Prisoner (starring McGoohan) was one of the coolest TV series ever! It has become a cult classic. A real mind-bender!
Bob in HI
Jonathan @ 158
Sorry Jon, the jury didn’t get to see Padilla in his utterly incapacitated state testifying on the stand; they weren’t allowed to hear of the conditions of mind control under which he had been held; they were directed in what they were allowed to consider by the judge who already was proved to be biased toward the govt by disallowing the defense motion to find Padilla incapable of helping in his own defense.
Juries are usually good, but they work with what they are given and under the instructions they receive from the judge. If the judge has decided to proscribe certain evidence and to keep the jury in the dark about mitigating circustances then they cannot function as they were designed to function and they will deliver a verdict based on what they were allowed to see and directed to pay attention to.
ccmask @ 161
AT&T set up a secret room in a SF facility for NSA tracking/listening. They were the first of the telecoms identified as helping with the secret listening and TSP. It eventually came out that all but qwest had complied with the gov’t requests.
AT&T just seemed a bit more enthusiastic about things.
albertchampion @ 59
1) Intel Asset angle is a good one. Thanks.
2) Why do you suspect OK Bombing?
3) And yes, this was a ‘message’ case to the pubilc, ’specially the dissenting public.
You can smell the Consitution composting as we write.
-GSD
dakine01 @ 170
Thanks Dakine01. It is still on C-Span2.
James @170 the jury did not hear that Jose had been in isolation for 1,307 days?
I’m pretty sure regular prisoners start to lose their minds in isolation way before that. Plus any prision guard could testify about how people get after being locked in isolation for less time and WHY the various states and Federal correction centers
I’m pretty sure DON’T LOCK PEOPLE UP ALONE FOR THAT LONG. Because then the prisoners end up like Jose!
Qwest is not as innocent as you think. They’d agreed to all that 6 mo earlier if I recall.
james @ 166
Somehow I’m not surprised. I keep meaning to learn more about dear old Prescott, but somehow even cleaning bathrooms seems more attractive. And on Bab’s side, we’ve got Franklin Pearce, who single handedly scuttled the agreement that might have avoided the Civil War. What a pedigree.
bobschacht @ 169
Fantastic show. Right up there with the Emma Peel years of the Avengers.
OT: If anyone has kids in college, I just found a website called textbookflix. It is like Netflix mivies, but it offers used college textbooks at good prices.
jayt @ 68
I’ve been remiss in honoring Mr. Koch, so let me echo the words above and other acolades Mr. Koch deserves so much for informing this less than aware Patriot and the rest of the country about this INCREDIBLE warped, sick and twisted event.
May the deity of your personal choice have mercy on Jose Padilla and what soul he might have left inside . . . I am sickened at this event.
Bush, Cheney, Addington, Gonzales, Yoo… have brought torture and shame to the US.
Womewhere, sometime they need to be held to account for these crimes against humanity. Let’s just hope it’s soon, before they come for us dirty freakin’ hippies.
Thinking Southerner @ 87
Thanks for that link . . . more and more questions and info to factor into the confusion.
All I can hope for is that all that weoponry is 3 months away from being on line . . any others out there with EXPERIENCE in this kind of activity know what the timeline of purchase to delivery, to install to TRAINING and OPERATIONAL is? I’m just GUESSING 3 months.
I’m hoping it buys us 3 months, to come up with a plan to STOP this atrocity in play. It’s DEFINITELY not gonna involve ground boots, gotta be all air activity . . . and naval.
Geez, what interesting times. Again. It’s a constant and incessant barrage . . . and the public is buckling under it all . . . a bleitzkreig with staying power to cower us all . . . sigh.
also thanks to Mr Koch, for doing what none of the national media seemed to care to do.
Glenn Greenwald on the Padilla case:
can any of the well connected, skilled researchers here get position statements from leading (D) presidential candidates on this travesty?
their firm, uncompromising paeans to the Rule of Law, and how atrocious it is that American citizens can be snatched at O’Hare airport and accused of heinous crimes based on tesimony extracted from others by torture…
crickets chirping…………
how appalled they are that an American citizen can be held and tortured, broken by techniques we used to condemn as war crimes if done by Designated Enemy States….
crickets chirping…………
how appalled they are that the 4th circuit court ruling that the presnit can seize anyone at will and subject them to the same treatment still stands!
crickets chirping…………
it sure would be great to have the courageous positions of leading (D)’s all in one place, maybe someone could post a link or 3?
my guess is that they will wiggle away as hard as they can from having to make any comment on the treatment of Padilla, but I’d be pleased to be proven wrong on this one.
my guess is based on the hypothesis that there is no principle whatsoever that they would be willing to risk even an iota of electability for.
perhaps it’s time for a political formation that cares a little, teeny, tiny bit more about the dire crises this country is in?
jayt @ 106
They didn’t punt. They were most likely threatened. Coarced, at the very least. With great fear instilled . . . no other way to explain it, other than a stacked jury . . . this was a pre-meditated decision.
Jose Padilla, like our soldiers in Iraq and the staged “workers”, “families” and “children” at Mr. Bush’s speeches, is a mannequin, a stage dummy useful for demonstrating Mr. Rove’s “image of the day”.
In this case, the image is one of an all powerful America whose power is not limited by the constraints of law or process or competing political considerations. A false image even before contemplating error and chance, this was always a confection intended for domestic consumption; it was never a reality. But the lawlessness was and it doesn’t belong just to Mr. Padilla.
If Mr. Padilla committed crimes, that was almost irrelevant. He was an object whose manipulation was useful insofar as it could be used to demonstrate Mr. Cheney’s power. The power to shut off his government’s laws and circumvent its processes and create a lawless, hopeless void into which Mr. Cheney could throw his enemies.
Mr. Padilla was denied the normal due process provided to Nazi war criminals at Nuremburg, Robert Kennedy’s assassin and Jeffrey Dahmer. He was turned into a vegetable. Arguably, his crimes weren’t even crimes when he committed them, even assuming he did (the evidence seemed paper thin and wholly circumstantial).
Now that Mr. Cheney has demonstrated how well his new lawless system works for one US citizen, who’s next?
dear larue,
by my analysis, padilla was the “third” man at OKBOMB.
he may even have been involved with usa’s working allegiance with al-fresco during clinton’s invasion of the balkans.
that is what caused him to think that he had a “get out of jail” card.
little did he recognize that his knowledge of amerikan intell instigation of OKBOMB and the KLA made him a targeted individual.
an individual whose memory banks had to be erased. he was an individual who knew too much about certain “false flag” ops.
that is why he became the man in the iron mask. why his brain had to be destroyed.
he knew the real story of OKBOMB. and the KLA. maybe even 11/09/01.
he thought that because of his status as an intell asset that he had protection. he didn’t know how the secret state really works. it buries those who know. and jose would have been buried, but emperor george wanted to instruct jose’s associates…telling them how the amerikan lubyanka can work at the direction of the neo-stalin.
anyway, look at the drawing of the OKBOMB third man. and then look at a pic of jose upon his arrest. they are virtually identical.
and by the way, jose’s defense attorneys are also aligned with the secret state. it has been a stalinist show trial.
Lew and others:
On July 27, 2007, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now interviewed Katherine Eban, who has a report on Vanity Fair.com about “Rorschach and Awe” — the use of CIA psychologists in interrogation -and the program involved the issue of the American Psychological Association’s refusal to go along with condemning the role of psychologists in torture. A psychologist working to change the policy was also on the program. You can read the transcript or download the broadcast
here.
and the Vanity Fair article – online only – is
here.
Thank you, Lew, for truly wonderful reporting.
I’m too sad, though not surprised, to say more.
Except, I’d love to owe you a pizza someday. I just won’t hold my breath til then.
Jonathan @ 91
Look, they decided he was guilty. I don’t even necessarily disagree with them (I think there’s reasonable doubt, but I wasn’t there). What I do say is that his constitutional protections were all violated to hell and back, and that there never should have been a trial in the first place.
And if they knew, they should have jury nullified whether he was guilty or not.
But hey, he may well have done some plotting. Unfortunately, that’s no longer the issue. If he’d been given a fair trial immediately, one where he could participate in his own defense, that’d be another matter – but he wasn’t, and now it’s about whether any trial of a man who has been destroyed this way can be fair. The answer is no.
Show trial.
james @ 149
I’m with ya on each and every word of yer post, and definitely the last part . . . we gotta keep this family’s legacy top of mind . . . without it, we lose too much to the wingnuts whining.
We need to drill the ENTIRE HISTORY from Prescott forward into the nation’s psyche.
As bas as I know Poppy to be as head of CIA back then, I’m STILL learning of things never unveiled . . so thanks James, for a few new nuggets to share . . .
Tween their legacy and what they are building in Paraguay, they don’t plan on leaving their criminal enterprises or bases of power whether IN the WH or not . . . and they are armed and dangerous . . .
albertchampion @ 186
And you are COMFORTABLE saying this on a watched blog? Yer brave . . . . thanks for the info, it’s CERTAINLY not out of the realm of any possibilities, considering the legacy of The Bush Family . . . .
Minor edit:
(LZK Note: Padilla had to be charged with a crime. He was experiencing this as a presumed innocent man.)
should be
(LZK Note: Padilla had YET to be charged with a crime. He was experiencing this as a presumed innocent man.)
albertchampion @ 186
I find the compulsory signing of his name as “John Doe” to be VERY, VERY curious. As you know, the third man at OKC was “John Doe #2.” Isn’t it interesting that if Padilla ever claimed to be “John Doe #2″ it could easily be dismissed that he adopted that identity as a result of the interrogation techniques?
Everything that I have read about Padilla’s treatment indicates that there was little effort made to retrieve information and maximum effort to fry his brain.
Say, is it uncomfortable in here, or is it just–you?
Can’t his family or soemone bring a lawsuit on his behalf against the federal government for what they did to him? Maybe via this group http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp
Lew Koch @ 48
I picked this up awhile back here. “Psychologists organized into “Psychologists for an Ethical APA” plan to meet at the August convention of the American Psychological Association with education, protests, and political pressure. The protest will be at noon, August 18 at the Moscone Convention Center in San Francisco, and will feature a number of prominent speakers from the psychology community. The aim of the protest is to support the proposed moratorium within APA to stop psychologist participation in national security and military interrogations associated with torture and abuse.”
I intend to be there.
It makes me absolutely sick that this (and other incidents) have happened. In the US. But, of course, most Americans are too busy shopping ’til they drop, buying yellow ribbon decals (magnetic, of course! Can’t harm their SUV paint!), etc. to have time to pay attention.
For years, I kept hearing the BS about “Americans are too busy working 3 jobs to pay attention.” BS! This is the most important thing they can do! FORGET shopping! Forget goofy teevee shows like American Idol.
PAY ATTENTION.
Correction to 196
Rally at American Psychological Association meeting, 4 pm Friday at Moscone Center, downtown San Francisco.
LS @ 28
i’m in.
Lew Koch @ 125
I’ve had dealings with all kinds of these folks for about 30-35 years now. The only thing that this has taught me is to ‘watch’ all those folks with ‘alphabet soup’ behind their names. (Now, let me make this clear, this is not a blanket statement.) There are people that have saved my life, good people that really care about the people they are working with. I’m talking about the ‘other ones.’ That is in ANY profession too, not just the mental health profession.
About the castration, that only takes care of one part of the problem, sometimes that is a ‘thinking’ problem, so maybe a lobatomy would do the trick too. ‘It’ wouldn’t come up by itself anymore, he couldn’t think ‘it’ up anymore, and he couldn’t cause anymore harm to anybody else either.
These people are insulting my intelligence. I know what torture is. What is really making me angry is I can’t find a way to change this mess, to wake people up so they will see it also. To busy shopping, voting on American Idol. I want to rip off all those ‘pretty colored’ ribbons off those suv’s or wherever they are on.
We need to find a ‘gimmick’ that’s what they do, we just have to find a better one. Enough.
Lew Koch @ 139
That’s why the ‘Citizens Rule Book’ is so vitally important to every juror that walks into the courtroom to have read before he goes there.
morphed at 45
Have a look… at this. Here is much of the answer to your question, in my view from over 60 years on the planet.