First?

and second?

Twain you’ve made your mark, doubly, congrats1

David W. Bartoo @ 3

Twain you’ve made your mark, doubly, congrats1

David, I think it’s just you and me.
what would you like to talk about?

McNerny’s got a great smile.

He knows how to dress.

He knows how to be photographed, with a flag in the background.

What else does he know, other than how to get elected and how to keep his seat?

Babaloo – Welcome to Firedoglake and thank you so much for raising this!

The willingness of some folks who ran as Democrats and even as Progressives to drink the koolaid on Iraq is something we have to address – and stop.

I’ve heard rumblings about trouble with McNerney for a bit but this is over the top.

Dang, I had to read it first!!!

The question of accountability must be pursued.
I do believe that something happens to many elected officials, just what is hard to say, but Gunga’s applecart comes to mind. The wrong sort of person is all too often attracted to this line of ‘work’.

Siun @ 6

Babaloo – Welcome to Firedoglake and thank you so much for raising this!

The willingness of some folks who ran as Democrats and even as Progressives to drink the koolaid on Iraq is something we have to address – and stop.

I’ve heard rumblings about trouble with McNerney for a bit but this is over the top.

Didn’t he cave on FISA, too???

As a Californian and someone who sent money to McN I have to say this is infuriating. Of course, you want the guy’s judgment, but this is just totally opposite of what he was saying and why he got our support, money and love.
I get letters and calls from the DCCC and the DNC every week. I have told them in the past two months that they can have my money when they show balls. they cant vote to give abu more FISA and not vote to withdraw, to send more money and lives into this quagmire.
Look at the recent (maybe one down) atrios post about polling that says most americans wont believe the Patreaus report and it wont change their minds.
This thing is over. Talk to the people. we want out. Not only that, it is the smart thing to do.
What are the DEMS in Congress afraid of and who has their cocks in a knot?

O/T here, but interesting.

many are reporting on the
excessive redactions in
f.b.i. director robert mueller
notes from march of 2004,
released today. . .

but what IS there, is damning:

vice president dick cheney, according to
several (widely-published) sources, gave then
white house counsel alberto gonzales an order
to go to the hospital bed of john ashcroft, and
prevail upon him to allow warrantless wiretapping
of united states citizens to continue, without
any probable cause — despite the insistence of
james comey, then acting attorney general (be-
cause john ashcroft was recovering from surgery),
that the program then in operation violated
the constitution, and thus must either
be amended, or cease, altogether. . .

alberto gonzales and dick cheney
are both liars. alberto gonzales
lied, under oath, before congress,
about what happened on march 10, 2004.

dick cheney lied, on cable televsion,
most recently to larry king, about “not
recalling” whether he ordered the
above visit.

though pale in comparison
to the above, that the yellow-highlighted
portion of f.b.i. director mueller’s
notes (above) recite that james comey — as
then-acting attorney general — was being
prevented from getting relevant information
about this program from. . . where? from. . .
that’s right! — the white house. that
obviously had to be one vice president
dick cheney. what was dick cheney doing,
withholding information crucial for the
re-authorization of this supposedly-highly
effective, and urgently-needed, surveillance
program? why — but of course! — dick cheney
was acting as a fourth branch, usurping
the legitimate role of the f.b.i., and the
united states attorney, in these matters.

Siun,

Thanks for the welcome — it’s great to be here!

Actually, McNerney did vote against FISA, along with the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation.

nolo @ 11

O/T here, but interesting.

many are reporting on the
excessive redactions in
f.b.i. director robert mueller
notes from march of 2004,
released today. . .

but what IS there, is damning:

vice president dick cheney, according to
several (widely-published) sources, gave then
white house counsel alberto gonzales an order
to go to the hospital bed of john ashcroft, and
prevail upon him to allow warrantless wiretapping
of united states citizens to continue, without
any probable cause — despite the insistence of
james comey, then acting attorney general (be-
cause john ashcroft was recovering from surgery),
that the program then in operation violated
the constitution, and thus must either
be amended, or cease, altogether. . .

alberto gonzales and dick cheney
are both liars. alberto gonzales
lied, under oath, before congress,
about what happened on march 10, 2004.

dick cheney lied, on cable televsion,
most recently to larry king, about “not
recalling” whether he ordered the
above visit.

though pale in comparison
to the above, that the yellow-highlighted
portion of f.b.i. director mueller’s
notes (above) recite that james comey — as
then-acting attorney general — was being
prevented from getting relevant information
about this program from. . . where? from. . .
that’s right! — the white house. that
obviously had to be one vice president
dick cheney. what was dick cheney doing,
withholding information crucial for the
re-authorization of this supposedly-highly
effective, and urgently-needed, surveillance
program? why — but of course! — dick cheney
was acting as a fourth branch, usurping
the legitimate role of the f.b.i., and the
united states attorney, in these matters.

Cheney and Rove were hiding the surveillance of domestic opponents, including elected opponents, not terrorists.

babaloo @ 12

Siun,

Thanks for the welcome — it’s great to be here!

Actually, McNerney did vote against FISA, along with the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation.

that’s not true, at least Feinstein voted for it. I dont know about the all the House members, but certainly the Goopers voted for it. I live in Rohrab-land andhe voted for it.

But I was disheartened to learn about this bit of information earlier today. Could this have anything to do with McNerney’s conversion to Republican talking points?

The taxpayer-funded trip originated with House Minority Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, who sought to help educate freshmen legislators with no seniority on committees that typically control congressional trips.

Looks like Boehner got exactly what he hoped for in exchange. This is from the Republican House Leader’s website:

Washington, Jul 31 – Just five weeks after all of the reinforcements arrived on the ground in Iraq and General Petraeus commenced Operation Phantom Thunder, it’s beginning to look like the surge is working and Democratic leaders may be the ones looking for a “new way forward” in their partisan quest to retreat from the fight against al Qaeda. […]

In fact, one Democratic freshman begrudgingly admitted some successes in the surge on his way home from a visit to Iraq yesterday, according to the Associated Press:

“I’m more willing to work with finding a way forward to accommodate what the generals are saying,” [Rep. Jerry] McNerney [D-CA] told reporters Monday during a conference call from Germany on his way back to the U.S. He said he was impressed by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and by evidence of progress from President Bush’s troop surge strategy in Ramadi in Anbar province. Petraeus argued in favor of giving the surge strategy time to work.”

babaloo @ 12

Siun,

Thanks for the welcome — it’s great to be here!

Actually, McNerney did vote against FISA, along with the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation.

My apologies… Welcome to the Lake, nice splash…!!! ;-)

babaloo @ 12

Siun,

Thanks for the welcome — it’s great to be here!

Actually, McNerney did vote against FISA, along with the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation.

I believe Costa (District 20) voted for it–the only CA Congressional Dem to do so.

Thanks for this post–I, too, am disappointed with McNerney.

peterboy at 14

Yes, indeed, Feinstein voted for FISA and I’m ashamed to say that Boxer did not vote. But the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation did vote against FISA.

He’s not getting another nickel from me. I’ve been sorely disappointed in some of the frosh Dems who I contributed to.

Ah well. Maybe 2008 will be better.

Nolo @ 11

Where are the patriots?

I think the U.S. is broken.

Every man (woman) for himself (herself).

Escape the ship before it sinks.

And yes:

Princeton – a degree to Petraes

Yale – a degree to GWB

Yale – a professorship for Wolfie

Harvard – an MBA for shrub

Why do the smart alums of these universities underwrite such awfulness?

McNerney has been bought, paid for, and possibly intimidated. The other side has the full resources of the NSA at their disposal. In any case, he has to be punished, even if that requires supporting the most vile opponent on earth. For the education of the rest, he must be punished.

Has McNerney explained his recent remarks or how he reconciles them with those he made during his campaign?

I put up a list a couple times today of 20 reasons why the surge is not working. It would be interesting to know how McNerney would maintain his newfound optimism in the face of them.

I think Babaloo’s suggestion that we let him know is a very good one … so many of us backed McNerney with enthusiasm … we need to let him know he won’t be getting our backing again with this sort of nonsense.

In Jerry’s March 2007 visit to FDL for a Blue America chat, Howie Klein wrote this in the setup post:

Meanwhile, when I asked the new congressman, a mathematics Ph.D., what he likes most about the gig, he was effusive. “I love the job. I love going out and meeting people and hearing about their issues and their ideas… their passions. It’s one of the things I most enjoy.” He’s been back in the district every weekend, holding “Congressman At The Corner” sessions in Stockton, Tracy, Danville and Morgan Hill so far. These have been well-covered by the media and Jerry has built a good rapport with people who had grown used to Pombo’s imperious and haughty manner. Jerry’s media coverage has been excellent, showing him as engaged in the life of his district, an important factor for a freshman Democrat in a purple district.

This was in March. According to his website, he’s still holding these “Congressman on the Corner” events, and will be in Tracy on Monday 8/20 and Woodbridge on Tuesday 8/21.

It might be worth having a couple local Blue America supporters ask him in person about his apparent change of heart on Iraq. For example . . .

Whatever happened to public timetables for withdrawl that you once supported unconditionally?

You said last year that this “war that has been leveraged by terrorists to incite sectarian violence.” How does staying longer (for an indefinite period) help to reduce the leverage of terrorists?

This has been an interesting day. Politically. And legally.

Here, in Pennsylvania, we’ve got Sen. Robert
Casey, who can’t decide if he wants to be Santorum-lite or Specter-lite. But he most definitely plays a ‘timid middle’.

Who’s running against McNerney? I contributed hard earned money to this man, and I am so pissed… I

Are no Democrats mentoring McNerny?

It looks like he wandered alone right into Boehner’s kitchen, climbed into the high chair and let himself get spoon fed the talking points.

And then Boehner burped him for the press.

Congress will be on your corner for an entire hour! So keep those questions brief and insist that Jerry (I would have to think you’re on familiar terms with him now) tamps down those replies as well.

Thats the big difference between Dems and republiclowns, you see. My so called representative can’t be bothered to meet with his constituency, at least not with those not possessing the proper pedigree. I’d damn sure take sixty minutes with Lamar Smith. Thirty…ten?

babaloo @ 18

peterboy at 14

Yes, indeed, Feinstein voted for FISA and I’m ashamed to say that Boxer did not vote. But the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation did vote against FISA.

Just checked again. Jim Costa, District 20, a Blue Dog dem. Voted for.

Barb in DC @ 19

He’s not getting another nickel from me. I’ve been sorely disappointed in some of the frosh Dems who I contributed to.

Ah well. Maybe 2008 will be better.

Ditto. Anyone who goes to one of McN’s “meet-n-greets,” please give him a message from ME and the other out-of-staters who contributed to his campaign, who are disappointed at his hanging with Boehner and spouting Republican talking points, and who WON’T be giving again!!!

babaloo @ 18

peterboy at 14

Yes, indeed, Feinstein voted for FISA and I’m ashamed to say that Boxer did not vote. But the entire California Democratic Congressional delegation did vote against FISA.

Hi Babaloo, good to see you here.
Was there any explanation offered for Boxer’s failure to vote?

Hi
I live near by and have the day off. Maybe DNC bought him with the promise of money for the next round. He doesn’t need the street anymore.
jo6pac

Hugh @ 22,

No public explanations, no public retractions.

Laura Doty @ 30,

I just checked too (probably while you were checking). I stand corrected. Talk about a Dem who needs to be primaried…

Sunny Nobility @ 32,

Thanks! If Boxer has offered an explanation, I haven’t heard of it.

Siun @ 23

I think Babaloo’s suggestion that we let him know is a very good one … so many of us backed McNerney with enthusiasm … we need to let him know he won’t be getting our backing again with this sort of nonsense.

I donated to his campaign too. From Columbus, Ohio. I’d like to hear his answer to the point that combat deaths in Iraq in July 2007 were HIGHER than any previous July since cheneyco lied us into this disaster.

Hmmm . . . still poking around on McNerney’s site, and found this press release about the same trip:

“Going to Iraq was an eye opening experience,” Rep. McNerney said. “It’s one thing to read about the situation and hear from others who have been, and quite another to see and experience firsthand the reality of the situation.”

“After visiting Iraq, I still strongly support implementing a reasonable timetable to begin withdrawing troops. I believe that is the only way to give the Iraqis the incentive they need to step up and take control of their country. In fact, coming home from Iraq, I’m more willing to work toward a solution,” Rep. McNerney continued.

The word that jumped out at me is “reasonable.” Not just any timetable, but a “reasonable” one. OK, Jerry, let’s talk: what do you mean by “reasonable”?

Do you measure it in days, weeks, months, or years?
Do you measure it in dollars spent by the pentagon that could have been spent on the Children’s Health and Medicare Protection (CHAMP) Act that you’re pushing?
Do you measure it by the dozens of US troops injured and killed?
Do you measure it by the hundreds of Iraqis injured and killed?
Do you measure it by the thousands of Iraqis turned into refugees?

What do you mean by “reasonable,” sir?

Will the real Democrats please stand up! We need to be more circumspect, suspect and prudent with our affections. I’m feeling wronged and radical.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 25

This has been an interesting day. Politically. And legally.

As in the old Chinese curse, “may you live in interesting times”?

Jonathan @ 20

Nolo @ 11

Where are the patriots?

I think the U.S. is broken.

Every man (woman) for himself (herself).

Escape the ship before it sinks.

And yes:

Princeton – a degree to Petraes

Yale – a degree to GWB

Yale – a professorship for Wolfie

Harvard – an MBA for shrub

Why do the smart alums of these universities underwrite such awfulness?

And Berkely, a law school position for YOO.

I imagine Boxer made an accommodation with an absent Republican. Isn’t that sort of thing commonplace in the “collegial” Senate? Darned if I understand why they feel the need to be so civil to the opposition which has shown themselves time & again to be anything but willing to play “nice”.

Hey babaloo

Do you have the link handy to that post you did at Calitics about how Jerry is trying to be one of the kewl kids (DC insider) now? You did it in April, I think

I think it’s totally relevant to his current behavior

Peterr @ 36,

Interesting that you picked up on that word “responsible.” It looms large in McNerney’s rhetoric. McNerney issued this press release after voting against McGovern last spring:

I want an end to the war in Iraq. But ending the war must be done in the most responsible way.

Today, I followed my conscience, after evaluating what I considered to be the most effective method of bringing America’s involvement in this conflict to an end. That is why I voted for the supplemental bill and against the McGovern bill.

I am reminded every day of the terrible cost of this conflict. In fact, on Tuesday, I received notice that a Marine from Manteca was killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq. Our brave men and women in uniform serving in Iraq are caught in the middle of a religious civil war.

Hundreds of billions of dollars have already been spent.

We have been fighting in Iraq longer than it took us to win the Second World War.

I feel strongly that ending the war must be done in a way that respects our soldiers, honors our veterans, provides the best chance to reduce the violence in Iraq, and prevents the violence from spreading to neighboring countries.

That’s why tonight I voted again – for the third time – for the supplemental plan, which I believe is the most responsible course to take. It’s the only way to ensure that Iraqis begin to take responsibility for Iraq.

The supplemental plan I voted for provides the framework to end this conflict by bringing about a diplomatic solution, which experts from across the political spectrum recognize is the only way to end the war responsibly.

I could not, in good conscience, vote for legislation like the McGovern bill that included neither specific provisions to bring about a diplomatic solution nor funding for the needs of this newly created generation of veterans. The supplemental does both.

We have to be tough but smart to bring about a responsible close to the war in Iraq. Continuing the war any longer than necessary would be unconscionable.

This was a vote of principle and one I stand behind.

Democrats were elected in November 2006 to get us out of Iraq, period.

McNerney bailed.

I guess if I had one question to ask McNerney it would be what part of this did he not understand.

peterboy @ 13

Cheney and Rove were hiding the surveillance of domestic opponents, including elected opponents, not terrorists.

Badda-bing

Here you go.

My feelings of betrayal by this man mimic my antagonistic perceptions of a certain Democratic candidate for president. I suppose I didn’t couch that in camofladge very well. Now did I?

radiofreewill @ 28

Are no Democrats mentoring McNerny?

It looks like he wandered alone right into Boehner’s kitchen, climbed into the high chair and let himself get spoon fed the talking points.

And then Boehner burped him for the press.

Nice analogy… I fervently hope the 9th Circuit will allow standing in the FISA/AT&T charade!!!

To add another note about the Congressional blues….my old-dog Dem critter is apparently going to retire after this term. In his honor, our gooper state legislature is going to retire his number. Our district will get redrawn to get rid of any chance of a Dem congressman from central Missouri. (sigh)

“Reasonable” = whatever he thinks will get him elected again = vote like a fucking Republican. I am furious.

jo6pac @ 33

Hi
I live near by and have the day off. Maybe DNC bought him with the promise of money for the next round. He doesn’t need the street anymore.
jo6pac

I have a more sinister thought. Maybe Karl knew that republicans couldn’t win and….

GordonM @ 38

Oklahoma kiddo @ 25

This has been an interesting day. Politically. And legally.

As in the old Chinese curse, “may you live in interesting times”?

I used that one at work today, meself!

Shadowstalker @ 47

To add another note about the Congressional blues….my old-dog Dem critter is apparently going to retire after this term. In his honor, our gooper state legislature is going to retire his number. Our district will get redrawn to get rid of any chance of a Dem congressman from central Missouri. (sigh)

Gerrymandered out of existence… Sickening!

I believe the record is clear. We have failed miserably in Iraq. We have killed and maimed far too many people. And any Democratic candidate for president who does not support immediate withdrawal of our soldiers, is not a candidate for peace.

Babaloo @ 42

Thanks for that. Here’s another one, from this past July after he voted for the Responsible Redeployment from Iraq Act:

After more than four years of engagement in Iraq, it is far past time to recognize certain truths:

* The President’s stay-the-course strategy is failing;
* The Iraqis must take responsibility for their own country;
* This war has severely diminished our military readiness and diverted our attention in the war on terror; and
* We must change course.

This leads me to pose a new question: So, Jerry, what did the generals say or propose that made you seem to change course on changing the course?

Margot @ 48,

Of course, what is so discouraging about this is that he got elected with 53% of the vote when he was standing firmly in support of withdrawing our troops from Iraq. I’m afraid he’s fallen prey to a bad case of DC insider-itis. They clearly don’t understand the district or the political dynamics at work. And I think he’s decided it’s safer to play ball with the DC crew than stand up to them.

OK, really the last time I’m going to put these up today.

Iraq surge critique

1. Failure to meet the two goals of the surge: 1) Security in Baghdad and 2) A political settlement
2. The move away from benchmarks because little or no progress has been made on them
3. Failure to recognize Iraq is in civil war and create a strategy which addresses it
4. Continued conflation of al Qaeda with the Sunni insurgency
5. Exaggeration of Iran’s role in Shia militias and minimization of Saudi Arabia’s role in the much more deadly Sunni insurgency
6. Failure to resolve tensions between the Kurds and Turkey in the North
7. Corruption, disorganization, sectarian nature, and ineffectualness of the Iraqi government
8. High levels of violence and deaths of Iraqis which have not declined
9. Iraqi security forces remain largely fronts for militias and death squads
10. The Iraqi army has almost no reliable troops and remains strongly dependent on our forces
11. Deterioration of basic services, such as water, electricity, and healthcare
12. Large scale malnutrition among Iraqi children
13. Continued high levels of unemployment
14. Declining oil production, Iraq’s principal source of income
15. High numbers of refugees: 2 million in neighboring countries, 2 million internally displaced
16. Tenuousness and temporary nature of Sunni truce in Anbar
17. Increased Shia on Shia violence in the South
18. Exhaustion of American troops and equipment
19. Inability to sustain the number of troops needed for the surge
20. Post-withdrawal violence will occur if we leave now or later

I agree the responsible word is the tip off. It allows McNerney to ignore the will of those who elected him. But while the surge is not working, the dog and pony show clearly is.

I contributed, too – sadly, this may make me more careful about who I give my contributions to. Not that they’re all that much, but it’s not money I’m in a position to throw away.

Hugh @ 55

Given your list, why does any Dem want to become president?

Your list is what’s going to be handed to the next president on 1/20/09.

I’m distrustful.

Thanks, Hugh. Really. You do the work.

OT – Anyone watching Al-Haramian v. Bush? -> C-Span 2.

I *knew* the government would do this. they’re saying that the document which the plaintiff previously had in his possession, but was subsequently re-seized by the govt., can’t now be talked about because any recollection of the contents would be inadmissible hearsay.

I hate the fucking justice Department.

We really need to create a cost for Dem’s backing the rethugs agenda. I keep suggestion we go after the Freshman class who vote the reThug program by standing primary challengers. This is the only way we will be heard. There will probably not be a better time than this election to make the statement. The only other way to let the Dem’s know that betraying progressivism is a 3′rd part and that will ensure another reThug WH. Damn Nader! He was right but he was very wrong!

So this guy McNerney played us for a sucker? Lets not get fooled again. OK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydAs5bRW1U

Hugh @ 55

OK, really the last time I’m going to put these up today.

Iraq surge critique

1. Failure to meet the two goals of the surge: 1) Security in Baghdad and 2) A political settlement
2. The move away from benchmarks because little or no progress has been made on them
3. Failure to recognize Iraq is in civil war and create a strategy which addresses it
4. Continued conflation of al Qaeda with the Sunni insurgency
5. Exaggeration of Iran’s role in Shia militias and minimization of Saudi Arabia’s role in the much more deadly Sunni insurgency
6. Failure to resolve tensions between the Kurds and Turkey in the North
7. Corruption, disorganization, sectarian nature, and ineffectualness of the Iraqi government
8. High levels of violence and deaths of Iraqis which have not declined
9. Iraqi security forces remain largely fronts for militias and death squads
10. The Iraqi army has almost no reliable troops and remains strongly dependent on our forces
11. Deterioration of basic services, such as water, electricity, and healthcare
12. Large scale malnutrition among Iraqi children
13. Continued high levels of unemployment
14. Declining oil production, Iraq’s principal source of income
15. High numbers of refugees: 2 million in neighboring countries, 2 million internally displaced
16. Tenuousness and temporary nature of Sunni truce in Anbar
17. Increased Shia on Shia violence in the South
18. Exhaustion of American troops and equipment
19. Inability to sustain the number of troops needed for the surge
20. Post-withdrawal violence will occur if we leave now or later

I agree the responsible word is the tip off. It allows McNerney to ignore the will of those who elected him. But while the surge is not working, the dog and pony show clearly is.

It would be irresponsible of us not to ask Jerry for “clarification” of his shift in his position on Iraq.

If Lieberman was rewarded with a chairmanship postion after having deceived CT voters about his position on the war, so why can’t McNerney think that he can get away with repeating GOP talking points.

OT: Tinfoil hat time: I got this link from Cliff Shechter’s blog. He claims to have gotten from Thom Hartmann. http://64.233.167.104/search?q…..id=1208571 “president for life bush” site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become “President-for-Life” Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.

jayt @ 59

OT – Anyone watching Al-Haramian v. Bush? -> C-Span 2.

I *knew* the government would do this. they’re saying that the document which the plaintiff previously had in his possession, but was subsequently re-seized by the govt., can’t now be talked about because any recollection of the contents would be inadmissible hearsay.

I hate the fucking justice Department.

And McNerney’s part of the problem. Any chance we can get America back?

Someone said a week or so ago that Howie has candidates we endorse agree to certain guidelines in terms of their votes on very specific issues. Does anyone have more info? Howie, are to here to answer this? Not that any of this is your fault; you are a respected AMERICAN.

Oklahoma, I wish you would articulate again and again, as necessary, what a real Democrat should be. You speak from the heart and the soul of what that means. Hilarious should get the message often, and yet again. And so should the people. If the r’s are on thin ice, so too, by their actions are the d’s. I would also expect EVERY d candidate for the Presidency to address the travesty of the Padilla trial. Do these candidates feel any shame about anything? And Hugh @ 55 – tedious though it may be, those points need a daily exercise.

Alecia @ 63

If Lieberman was rewarded with a chairmanship postion after having deceived CT voters about his position on the war, so why can’t McNerney think that he can get away with repeating GOP talking points.

I’m not sure Lieberman deceived most of those who voted for him. I think…it doesn’t matter what I think.

now the guy from Justice is insinuating that the U.S. District Court, even in an in camera setting, does not have the right to view the document in question.

“No Fair! Secret, Secret, Secret!!!”

Another press release from McNerney’s website, this time from May:

May 23, 2007

Washington, DC – Today, the House passed a bipartisan bill to ensure the Veterans Administration is equipped to treat veterans suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), the signature injury of the war in Iraq. The bill, H.R. 2199, included the provisions of a bill Rep. Jerry McNerney (CA-11) authored and introduced two weeks ago requiring the VA to assess its capacity to treat veterans with TBI and develop policies for both short- and long-term TBI care and rehabilitation.

“Traumatic Brain Injury is the hallmark injury of the war in Iraq. Estimates are that over half of the soldiers wounded in Iraq have experienced a Traumatic Brain Injury,” Rep. McNerney said. “Because of the nature of the injuries, which can often require long-term care and rehabilitation, it is critical we work now to ensure the Veterans Administration is prepared to provide the ongoing services necessary to fully address the impact of traumatic brain injuries,” Rep. McNerney said.

Another question: Given these kinds of injuries, wouldn’t the most responsible thing of all be to remove the troops from Iraq, thus preventing even more of these injuries from occurring in the future?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61

So this guy McNerney played us for a sucker? Lets not get fooled again. OK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydAs5bRW1U

War? What Is It Good For?

It’s hard to believe that the domestic spying was for political blackmail. But that would sure explain the paranoia about revealing what they were after and what they got from this.

But unless it is only JUST about power and control… it seems pointless. It’s what they want to DO with all that power and control.

It’s ego and money… I don’t know what drives these people. The typical bonehead republican just wants lots of cash… but after you are up there in the millions what drives these SOBs? I simply don’t get what these people do with their billions?

Can anyone explain?

jayt @ 59

OT – Anyone watching Al-Haramian v. Bush? -> C-Span 2.

I *knew* the government would do this. they’re saying that the document which the plaintiff previously had in his possession, but was subsequently re-seized by the govt., can’t now be talked about because any recollection of the contents would be inadmissible hearsay.

I hate the fucking justice Department.

I was watching on the tele, when all of sudden the Jewelry channel pre-empted it… Aargh…!!!

Peterr @ 70

BINGO!

CTuttle @ 72

jayt @ 59

OT – Anyone watching Al-Haramian v. Bush? -> C-Span 2.

I *knew* the government would do this. they’re saying that the document which the plaintiff previously had in his possession, but was subsequently re-seized by the govt., can’t now be talked about because any recollection of the contents would be inadmissible hearsay.

I hate the fucking justice Department.

I was watching on the tele, when all of sudden the Jewelry channel pre-empted it… Aargh…!!!

Get some new pearls!

SanderO @ 72

It’s hard to believe that the domestic spying was for political blackmail. But that would sure explain the paranoia about revealing what they were after and what they got from this.

But unless it is only JUST about power and control… it seems pointless. It’s what they want to DO with all that power and control.

It’s ego and money… I don’t know what drives these people. The typical bonehead republican just wants lots of cash… but after you are up there in the millions what drives these SOBs? I simply don’t get what these people do with their billions?

Can any explain?

The more money they accumulate, the more they show their intrinsic worth. Winning isn’t the most important thing; it the only thing.

I was watching on the tele, when all of sudden the Jewelry channel pre-empted it… Aargh…!!!

Consider yourself lucky. Otherwise you’d be screaming even louder!!

Twain @ 74

CTuttle @ 72

I was watching on the tele, when all of sudden the Jewelry channel pre-empted it… Aargh…!!!

Get some new pearls!

Heh, it would be my first set!!! ;-)

As another Californian donor and volunteer, I look forward to reports from those who go to his events as the conclusion his post trip letter is not quite as bad as the AP article sounds http://mcnerney.house.gov/Iraq-Codel.htm
.

Even though we were shown some successes, Iraq is still engaged in a religious civil war… We need to set a definite start date and a definite strategy to end our military involvement. And in between, we need definite benchmarks.

In doing so we must truly take a bipartisan approach … There is, however, one area on which I am not willing to compromise and that is the need to maintain a timeline in some form.

McNerney needs to understand that “better than Pombo” is not the only standard we expect him to uphold. Progressives all over the country worked and contributed to his election, and there’s no reason for him to get chummy with Boehner, of all people.

What is it about the Beltway that corrupts these guys? Jerry was one of the good guys — and I don’t want to see him become one of the bad guys. We need to let him know that this parroting of GOP talking points and accommodation with the pro-war party simply will not help him. He needs to hear from lots of us, and get back on the right path.

Don’t try to run from being called a “Pelosi lockstep voter.” If our party has the correct answers, be proud of voting to support our plan for America.

Get with the program, McNerney!

Hugh @ 43

Democrats were elected in November 2006 to get us out of Iraq, period.

McNerney bailed.

I guess if I had one question to ask McNerney it would be what part of this did he not understand.

My congresman bailed too.
I guess he thinks Republicans here want this war. Wrong.

Loo Hoo, I emailed Howie with a link to the current thread. He didn’t respond, and usually he is very quick. So, I assume he’s off-line. My guess is that he will have something to say about this after he’s talked with McNerney/ staff. Just my guess. But, Howie is incredibly good about following up on what BA candidates are doing, and I”m sure this will not pass unnoticed.

jayt @ 76

I was watching on the tele, when all of sudden the Jewelry channel pre-empted it… Aargh…!!!

Consider yourself lucky. Otherwise you’d be screaming even louder!!

I’m streaming it… and I’m screaming at Eisenberg…!!! 8-(

SanderO @ 71

It’s hard to believe that the domestic spying was for political blackmail. But that would sure explain the paranoia about revealing what they were after and what they got from this.

But unless it is only JUST about power and control… it seems pointless. It’s what they want to DO with all that power and control.

It’s ego and money… I don’t know what drives these people. The typical bonehead republican just wants lots of cash… but after you are up there in the millions what drives these SOBs? I simply don’t get what these people do with their billions?

Can any explain?

I don’t find it difficult to believe the domestic spying was for political blackmail.

J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful official in the U.S. precisely because he had files on and could blackmail anyone.

Bobby Kennedy, you say?

Just sent this to McNerney:

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.

OT – msnbc says another collapse in the Utah coal mine… 3 ambulances, 2 medivac helicopters sent… looks like rescue workers this time…

TeddySanFran @ 79

McNerney needs to understand that “better than Pombo” is not the only standard we expect him to uphold. Progressives all over the country worked and contributed to his election, and there’s no reason for him to get chummy with Boehner, of all people.

What is it about the Beltway that corrupts these guys? Jerry was one of the good guys — and I don’t want to see him become one of the bad guys. We need to let him know that this parroting of GOP talking points and accommodation with the pro-war party simply will not help him. He needs to hear from lots of us, and get back on the right path.

Don’t try to run from being called a “Pelosi lockstep voter.” If our party has the correct answers, be proud of voting to support our plan for America.

Get with the program, McNerney!

From Jerry’s site, it appears that science and the environment is the place he is most invested in as a member of Congress. That makes sense, given both his background and his district. Could it be that Jerry’s trying to walk a tightrope to get some GOP support for some environmental bill, and this careful parsing of “responsible withdrawl” is how he’s trying to make that happen?

Just a guess — but that’s part of the way DC works. Especially if you’re a freshman member.

I just update the graphic here tracking casualty trends against the seasons. Anyone want to bet that the non-Petraus report won’t claim casualties are down indication some success. Who should we make sure the right congress-critters are ready to shoot this one down when it come up?

Jonathan @ 20

Nolo @ 11

Where are the patriots?

I think the U.S. is broken.

Every man (woman) for himself (herself).

Escape the ship before it sinks.

And yes:

Princeton – a degree to Petraes

Yale – a degree to GWB

Yale – a professorship for Wolfie

Harvard – an MBA for shrub

Why do the smart alums of these universities underwrite such awfulness?

Dumb crooks get caught.

“better than Pombo,” i.e. having a pulse and able to go out in daylight without turning to ashes.

Hurricane Dean is barreling towards the Gulf coast….

6 miners still trapped in Utah….Reports of another accident involving the rescuers…

Minnesota is still pulling the dead out of the bridge collapse….

NASA sez they won’t patch the shuttle…..

Massive bombings in Iraq….

The world markets in a shambles…

Everything is fine people. George W. Bush is at the helm offering his steady hand.

-GSD

marymccurnin @ 84

Just sent this to McNerney:

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.

But don’t you understand? We must be responsible in leaving Iraq.

OldCoastie @ 86

OT – msnbc says another collapse in the Utah coal mine… 3 ambulances, 2 medivac helicopters sent… looks like rescue workers this time…

More blood on Murray’s hands…!!!

babaloo @ 73

Peterr @ 70

BINGO!

That is exactly what I was thinking when reading my rep’s web site a minute ago.
http://space.house.gov/issues_veterans.shtml

So…did he never hear the old adage, “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”? “A stitch in time saves nine”? Damn.

GSD @ 91

Hurricane Dean is barreling towards the Gulf coast….

6 miners still trapped in Utah….Reports of another accident involving the rescuers…

Minnesota is still pulling the dead out of the bridge collapse….

NASA sez they won’t patch the shuttle…..

Massive bombings in Iraq….

The world markets in a shambles…

Everything is fine people. George W. Bush is at the helm offering his steady hand.

-GSD

Not yet. Another round of tax cuts ought to do it, though.

Babaloo thanks so much for all the work you did on the campaign and for keeping on it. Obviously the work is not over after election day.

GSD @ 89

Hurricane Dean is barreling towards the Gulf coast….

6 miners still trapped in Utah….Reports of another accident involving the rescuers…

Minnesota is still pulling the dead out of the bridge collapse….

NASA sez they won’t patch the shuttle…..

Massive bombings in Iraq….

The world markets in a shambles…

Everything is fine people. George W. Bush is at the helm offering his steady hand.

-GSD

From his vacation home in Crawford, just as he was with Katrina.

Hey it is that foul mouthed blogger Jane Hamsher!

-GSD

Mike Cacabee out of his elephant element in NH.

If I hear that coal baron Murray blabbing about seismic activity again I am going to get pissed off all over again today.

Is the conclusion to be drawn that the Democratic front runners are “states persons”? With an eye only focused on the big picture (the world is looking) rather than just winning, for whatever idiosyncratic reasons? I am suspect of the front runners. In both parties.

Jane, the foul-mouthed fem-blogger? Yay! We need more foul-mouthed and less mealy-mouthed.

SanderO @ 71

It’s hard to believe that the domestic spying was for political blackmail. But that would sure explain the paranoia about revealing what they were after and what they got from this.

But unless it is only JUST about power and control… it seems pointless. It’s what they want to DO with all that power and control.

It’s ego and money… I don’t know what drives these people. The typical bonehead republican just wants lots of cash… but after you are up there in the millions what drives these SOBs? I simply don’t get what these people do with their billions?

Can anyone explain?

Just guessing that it’s a contest.

Hugh @ 43

Democrats were elected in November 2006 to get us out of Iraq, period.

McNerney bailed.

I guess if I had one question to ask McNerney it would be what part of this did he not understand.

That’s it.

OT Rudy:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..IdVtipg9IF
“…..Leave my family alone, just like I’ll leave your family alone.’”

He says this to a woman in New Hamshire in front of her 5-year-old.

Is that a threat?

OT – Diebold’s going down! Or at least changing outfits.

We are permitting the DLC dictate our future.

Jane @ 96,

It’s been my pleasure. Thank YOU for running such a wonderful site!

You know, when I was writing on SayNoToPombo, I was amazed to realize that Washington, DC operates on the blanket assumption that nobody is paying attention to the details. Sure, Supreme Court nominations, really big votes — but on the sort of gritty, everyday stuff, they just assume that they are protected by some sort of invisibility cloak.

You’d think that the Dems, especially the ones who were netroots candidates, might have figured out by now that we’re watching them, and we’re going to call them out on the issues, but they really seem to lose touch with reality once that Potomac Fever hits.

wigwam @ 65

OT: Tinfoil hat time: I got this link from Cliff Shechter’s blog. He claims to have gotten from Thom Hartmann. http://64.233.167.104/search?q…..id=1208571 “president for life bush” site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become “President-for-Life” Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.

From the article sited:

f President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestiege while terrifying American enemies.

Your tinfoil hat has a short circuit. 160,000 (oh, hell, make it 400,000 with contractors) troops are not going to chase 20,000,000 people who hate them off the land they’ve occupied for thousands of years. He’d have to nuke them. But first, he’d have to get the troops out of there. Then he’d have to find 20,000,000 Americans willing to live in 120 degree heat with no water and electricity, leaving aside the radioactive problem. Then he’d have to convince those 160,000 to 400,000 troops that the 280,000,000 people still in the US are their mortal enemies.

And, he’d have to do this with huge numbers of vacancies in important executive branch departments (DoJ and DHS in particular), and with a military that he can’t even trust to write their own speaches.

Shorter Bondy; We’ve sprinkled the State Secret pixie dust all over it, and we’re sorry your Honors’ time was wasted…!!!

wigwam @ 64

OT: Tinfoil hat time: I got this link from Cliff Shechter’s blog. He claims to have gotten from Thom Hartmann. http://64.233.167.104/search?q…..id=1208571 “president for life bush” site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become “President-for-Life” Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.

I think those people are affiliated with Melanie Morgan, Howard Kaloogian and Sal Russo’s group — not giving the name because they don’t deserve the attention

babaloo @ 106

Jane @ 96,

It’s been my pleasure. Thank YOU for running such a wonderful site!

You know, when I was writing on SayNoToPombo, I was amazed to realize that Washington, DC operates on the blanket assumption that nobody is paying attention to the details. Sure, Supreme Court nominations, really big votes — but on the sort of gritty, everyday stuff, they just assume that they are protected by some sort of invisibility cloak.

You’d think that the Dems, especially the ones who were netroots candidates, might have figured out by now that we’re watching them, and we’re going to call them out on the issues, but they really seem to lose touch with reality once that Potomac Fever hits.

Seems to me you’re calling into question, as I have, of the republican form of government.

marymccurnin @ 84

Just sent this to McNerney:

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.

Excellent! Love you, Mary.

The problem our people have in Washington, is that the Establishment, and that includes the Democratic leadership and think-tankers, cannot conceive of a Middle East without a dominating American presence. Part of this has to do with Isreal and the unmentionable lobby, but it goes beyond that. Joe Wilson thinks we belong there, and he’s on our side. The problem is that we really don’t belong there. And it is going a take a long time for this to sink in.

The right of Americans to live in suburbs and drive SUV’s does not dominate the right of Iraqi’s and other people in the Middle East to have lives of their own. That’s the simple truth. It is going to take a long time for our elite to accept it and understand that it is not the end of the world if those ordinary people like us can have decent lives that are not dedicated to the prosperity of the United States.

All this is the evil outfall of our having enslaved millions of black people and killed tens of thousands of native Americans on the way to becoming a superpower. Think about it.

Siun @ 23

I think Babaloo’s suggestion that we let him know is a very good one … so many of us backed McNerney with enthusiasm … we need to let him know he won’t be getting our backing again with this sort of nonsense.

Umm … excuse me … I know it’s terribly unfashionable to ask these questions, but …

Wasn’t the object of the exercise to get rid of Pombo???

Isn’t McNerney, whatever his supposed faults, still infinitely better than Pombo???

Man, oh man — talk about taking your eye off the ball …

Or were y’all really just looking for an old-fashioned Democratic machine Congressman, i.e., once bought stays bought?

We are learning the hard way. Just because someone says they’re a Democrat, doesn’t mean they are.

burnspbesq @ 111

Siun @ 23

I think Babaloo’s suggestion that we let him know is a very good one … so many of us backed McNerney with enthusiasm … we need to let him know he won’t be getting our backing again with this sort of nonsense.

Umm … excuse me … I know it’s terribly unfashionable to ask these questions, but …

Wasn’t the object of the exercise to get rid of Pombo???

Isn’t McNerney, whatever his supposed faults, still infinitely better than Pombo???

Man, oh man — talk about taking your eye off the ball …

Or were y’all really just looking for an old-fashioned Democratic machine Congressman, i.e., once bought stays bought?

At least back in those days you knew who was on your side and exactly what they were going to do. They also did some very good things.

burnspbesq @ 111

Umm … excuse me … I know it’s terribly unfashionable to ask these questions, but …

Wasn’t the object of the exercise to get rid of Pombo???

Isn’t McNerney, whatever his supposed faults, still infinitely better than Pombo???

Man, oh man — talk about taking your eye off the ball …

Or were y’all really just looking for an old-fashioned Democratic machine Congressman, i.e., once bought stays bought?

More like the hope that someone who has principles stays with them. And does politics always have to be about the lesser of two evils?

If McNerney wants to go do his Lieberman-lite shtik that his business but if he had any honesty he would have let us know before not after the election.

Thing is. Of course. McNerney isn’t running for president.

The really sad thing about the roaring single digits of this century is that our leaders are not just clueless and lazy. There is an element of deceit. They are doing so much damage in so many areas that will haunt us for decades or even more.

We know about the disaster in Iraq and our relations with the rest of the world. We now know about Bush’s intentions the whole time of establishing a permanent base there and taking their oil.

We know about the health scandals, including how our former Surgeon General said this Administration squelched science in favor of obsequious comments about Bush. More deceit.

We know about global warming. The latest on that is just another example of an attempt to deceive: http://climateprogress.org/200…..ture-data/

And boy do we know about the Murdoch and his billion dollar Fox media empire which enables all this deceit. Why just today it was reported they were caught doctoring up Wikipedia.

And let’s not forget about outing Plame as political payback, the illegal spying, the torture and all the rest.

These crooked, deceitful Fox-Republicans officials and politicians are the slime of the Earth. Democrats need to put them exactly where they belong. No more free passes. These Republicans will do whatever they can get away with. If the Democrats don’t show them there is a real price to pay for this kind of activity, it will happen again within the next few decades and the Nixon Bush cycle will continue. Rove is young yet.

burnspbesq – Getting rid of Pombo was good but we choose which candidates to support very carefully and we support progressive candidates only. When those candidates back away from critical positions – the positions that led us to support them – like voting against Human Rights, voting for torture or repeating the administration’s false tales about Iraq, we let them know. That’s not “bought” – that’s a question of standing up for progressive positions – if you don’t, progressives won’t stand up for you.

I have one thought, after listening to the entire
FISA hearing.

George Bush is one hellacious p*ker player.

He either is holding a 2, 5, 6, 2, 4, 8 hand…of a variety of suits, or, something that trumps it.
Bluff?? or game??

~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~

Siun @ 120

burnspbesq – Getting rid of Pombo was good but we choose which candidates to support very carefully and we support progressive candidates only. When those candidates back away from critical positions – the positions that led us to support them – like voting against Human Rights, voting for torture or repeating the administration’s false tales about Iraq, we let them know. That’s not “bought” – that’s a question of standing up for progressive positions – if you don’t, progressives won’t stand up for you.

Brava.

Knut Wicksell @ 112

The problem our people have in Washington, is that the Establishment, and that includes the Democratic leadership and think-tankers, cannot conceive of a Middle East without a dominating American presence. Part of this has to do with Isreal and the unmentionable lobby, but it goes beyond that. Joe Wilson thinks we belong there, and he’s on our side. The problem is that we really don’t belong there. And it is going a take a long time for this to sink in.

The right of Americans to live in suburbs and drive SUV’s does not dominate the right of Iraqi’s and other people in the Middle East to have lives of their own. That’s the simple truth. It is going to take a long time for our elite to accept it and understand that it is not the end of the world if those ordinary people like us can have decent lives that are not dedicated to the prosperity of the United States.

All this is the evil outfall of our having enslaved millions of black people and killed tens of thousands of native Americans on the way to becoming a superpower. Think about it.

Good point.

Joe Wilson thinks we belong there, and he’s on our side. We are united in being anti-Bush. As soon as Bush is gone (or as soon as it sinks in he’s almost gone), that unity will disappear. It won’t be pretty.

I prefer Edwards and Kucinich. And Gore. Most of all.

Twain @ 115

burnspbesq @ 111

Umm … excuse me … I know it’s terribly unfashionable to ask these questions, but …

Wasn’t the object of the exercise to get rid of Pombo???

Isn’t McNerney, whatever his supposed faults, still infinitely better than Pombo???

Man, oh man — talk about taking your eye off the ball …

Or were y’all really just looking for an old-fashioned Democratic machine Congressman, i.e., once bought stays bought?

At least back in those days you knew who was on your side and exactly what they were going to do. They also did some very good things.

Wait … so, endemic criminality is OK so long as the snow gets shoveled, the garbage gets picked up, and it’s our guys lining their pockets? Sorry, I thought we were better than that.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 122

I prefer Edwards and Kucinich. And Gore. Most of all.

I am with you, ok.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 123

I prefer Edwards and Kucinich. And Gore. Most of all.

Lahoma has put together a damn fine list ;-)!

burnspbesq @ 122

Twain @ 115

At least back in those days you knew who was on your side and exactly what they were going to do. They also did some very good things.

Wait … so, endemic criminality is OK so long as the snow gets shoveled, the garbage gets picked up, and it’s our guys lining their pockets? Sorry, I thought we were better than that.

No, that’s not what I meant. The politicians did not feel that the American people were their enemies, they had respect for the people said and, like all of us, did their best. I resent the implication that I do not have principles.

burnspbesq – you are setting up strawmen so you can bravely knock them down … and conflating sarcasm with serious argument.

We welcome questions here and lively discussion but that sort of faux argument is not very appealing.

john in sacramento @ 109

wigwam @ 64

OT: Tinfoil hat time: I got this link from Cliff Shechter’s blog. He claims to have gotten from Thom Hartmann. http://64.233.167.104/search?q…..id=1208571 “president for life bush” site:familysecuritymatters.org&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I think those people are affiliated with Melanie Morgan, Howard Kaloogian and Sal Russo’s group — not giving the name because they don’t deserve the attention

The affiliated folks they claim to be affiliated include: Laura Ingram, Frank Gaffney, and James Wolsey.

At least two Utah mine recovery workers taken to hospitals.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20283387/

hmmm a song is running thru my fevered brain…. meet the new boss – same as the old boss – i pray… we womt get FOOLED again….

burnspbesq @ 113

Siun @ 23

I think Babaloo’s suggestion that we let him know is a very good one … so many of us backed McNerney with enthusiasm … we need to let him know he won’t be getting our backing again with this sort of nonsense.

Umm … excuse me … I know it’s terribly unfashionable to ask these questions, but …

Wasn’t the object of the exercise to get rid of Pombo???

Isn’t McNerney, whatever his supposed faults, still infinitely better than Pombo???

Man, oh man — talk about taking your eye off the ball …

Or were y’all really just looking for an old-fashioned Democratic machine Congressman, i.e., once bought stays bought?

You raise an interesting point and one that I’ve thought a lot about. The point is that McNerney fended off a primary challenger who was backed by the evil triumvirate of Hoyer/Emanuel/Tauscher along with the DCCC, a candidate who was widely touted as the ideal candidate for the district because of his “centrist” leanings. It is my considered opinion that this candidate, Steve Filson, could not possibly have unseated Richard Pombo for a variety of reasons, the main one being that his so-called “centrist” positions mostly sounded like pandering and he seemed not to stand for much except getting elected. The key to McNerney’s election was the sense that he was an a person of deep integrity who would not operate based on expediency.

And the reality is that McNerney, promulgating a strong progressive message, won with 53% of the vote. I am frankly worried that his irresolute behavior will jeopardize his reelection and that the voters of his district may be drawn to his Republican opponent who at least stands firm for his beliefs.

So what can I do to prevent that? All I know how to do is to challenge him every time I see him making bad choices.

Quite frankly, this is not about holding him to my ideals; it’s about holding him to his professed ideals. You know, as an example, McNerney was very clear in his campaign about being a gun owner and in favor of protecting the rights of gun owners. Now, this does not correspond with my thoughts on the issue at all. But if McNerney voted against gun control, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of me because I knew going in that he took that position. It’s when he changes his position on issues that were central to his campaign that I’m going to speak out every time.

Loo Hoo. @ 130

At least two Utah mine recovery workers taken to hospitals.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20283387/

My father dropped out of the 10th grade to support his family by becoming a coal miner. Were he alive today, … he’d have me in tears.

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.Loo Hoo. @ 111

marymccurnin @ 84

Just sent this to McNerney:

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.

Excellent! Love you, Mary.

Love you back.

even tho i know kucinich doesnt have a chance – he’s been most consistent in his speeches during this silly season

marymccurnin @ 85

Just sent this to McNerney:

Did you leave the Green Zone without your handlers when you went to Iraq? Did you speak with Iraqis that were free to speak their minds? Is 500 dead in one bombing an improvement? Are 3 and 4 rotations in Iraq the proper way to maintain our forces? Is the highest suicide rate in the armed services in 26 years acceptable? Why are we in Iraq? Do the Iraqis want us to leave? I think you are a sell out or a fool.

Amen, mary m.

As Swopa and Hugh are pointing out, it’s all about the specifics – and the legitimacy of the sources of any cited specifics. Without verifiable specifics about Iraq – which Congressional hearings ought to be digging up from sources not stage-managed by the White House – our legislators are complicit in promoting the “dog and pony show.”

By now, legislators of all stripes have more than enough evidence to declare the vaunted September surge report from the Executive Branch “DOA” – a term that applies far more aptly here than to its usual application by Congress to the president’s annual budget proposal.

Twain, I didn’t mean to suggest that you (or anyone else here) lacks principles. But if you go back and objectively read what you wrote (i.e., read what you actually wrote, unfiltered by “what you meant to say”), I think you’ll agree that I neither twisted what you said or took it out of context.

There is more I’d like to say about McNerney, but until I can figure out how to say it in a way that won’t be misunderstood (and misunderstood in ways that are likely to piss off people that I’d rather not piss off, all things being equal), I’m simply going to shut up.

Funny, I don’t think that Ceasar faced two potential adversaries with thousands of nuclear weapons and millions and millions of soldiers.

-GSD

GSD @ 136

Funny, I don’t think that Ceasar faced two potential adversaries with thousands of nuclear weapons and millions and millions of soldiers.

-GSD

Yes, but what about the Parthian nuclear program?

Guess who wants to make Kommander Guy, Kommander for life? Give up. Darth Cheney!!! From http://politics.reddit.com/, here is an update on FSM
______________________
Well, it turns out that “Family Security Matters (FSM) is a front group for the Center for Security Policy (CSP), a conservative Washington think tank “committed to the time-tested philosophy of promoting international peace through American strength.” (The phone number listed on the FSM website is answered by the CSP.)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..ty_Matters

So now we are led to the Center for Security Policy, and who’s connected to that group?

Dick Cheney, Vice President of the U.S. under George W. Bush, was an early member of Center’s Board of Advisors (which is now called the National Security Advisory Council).

Twenty-two CSP advisers — including additional Reagan-era remnants like Elliott Abrams, Ken deGraffenreid, Paula Dobriansky, Sven Kraemer, Robert Joseph, Robert Andrews and J.D. Crouch — have reoccupied key positions in the national security establishment, as have other true believers of more recent vintage.”

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..#Personnel

One final bit of shit shoveling to really make you sick:
Colonel Ritchie, M.D, crack Bush bullshitter on trying to downplay the mental health breakdown of our troops, Director of the Office for Behavorial Health, on a panel today discussing the bad report on the poor mental state of our troops. More specifically, the huge numbers of suicides, (101 last year) and attempted suicides (over 900)resulting from 15 day breaks for repetitive 15 month depoloyments.

“It’s hard to stop suicides without taking away their guns”….

“If you’re watching this and are thinking about suicide.. get some help.”

Thanks Doc.

burnspbesq @ 135

Twain, I didn’t mean to suggest that you (or anyone else here) lacks principles. But if you go back and objectively read what you wrote (i.e., read what you actually wrote, unfiltered by “what you meant to say”), I think you’ll agree that I neither twisted what you said or took it out of context.

There is more I’d like to say about McNerney, but until I can figure out how to say it in a way that won’t be misunderstood (and misunderstood in ways that are likely to piss off people that I’d rather not piss off, all things being equal), I’m simply going to shut up.

I would certainly rather that you did NOT shut up. I value opinion – all of them. What I was trying to say that in all the years I worked in politics, it’s a crap shoot. Some are good, some are bad, but you are better off if you at least know where they stand. In the old days, politics was very different and you may think that the people involved were awful but they were not. They actually did what people wanted and they also took care of the citizens in their districts. I think that’s a good thing overall. Pols of today are as slippery as greased pigs and not much more trustworthy – IMO.

babaloo @ 132

You raise an interesting point and one that I’ve thought a lot about. The point is that McNerney fended off a primary challenger who was backed by the evil triumvirate of Hoyer/Emanuel/Tauscher along with the DCCC, a candidate who was widely touted as the ideal candidate for the district because of his “centrist” leanings. It is my considered opinion that this candidate, Steve Filson, could not possibly have unseated Richard Pombo for a variety of reasons, the main one being that his so-called “centrist” positions mostly sounded like pandering and he seemed not to stand for much except getting elected. The key to McNerney’s election was the sense that he was an a person of deep integrity who would not operate based on expediency.

And the reality is that McNerney, promulgating a strong progressive message, won with 53% of the vote. I am frankly worried that his irresolute behavior will jeopardize his reelection and that the voters of his district may be drawn to his Republican opponent who at least stands firm for his beliefs.

So what can I do to prevent that? All I know how to do is to challenge him every time I see him making bad choices.

Quite frankly, this is not about holding him to my ideals; it’s about holding him to his professed ideals. You know, as an example, McNerney was very clear in his campaign about being a gun owner and in favor of protecting the rights of gun owners. Now, this does not correspond with my thoughts on the issue at all. But if McNerney voted against gun control, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of me because I knew going in that he took that position. It’s when he changes his position on issues that were central to his campaign that I’m going to speak out every time.

Emphasis added.

McNerney is both an alternative energy businessman and also veteran (with a son in the military), and I think this combination made him particularly appealing to his district’s voters. I can’t help but think that his main focus is on the Science and Technology committee, which — to be fair — he spoke about on the campaign trail at least as much if not more than he spoke up about Iraq.

Frank33 @ 140

Guess who wants to make Kommander Guy, Kommander for life? Give up. Darth Cheney!!! From http://politics.reddit.com/, here is an update on FSM
______________________
Well, it turns out that “Family Security Matters (FSM) is a front group for the Center for Security Policy (CSP), a conservative Washington think tank “committed to the time-tested philosophy of promoting international peace through American strength.” (The phone number listed on the FSM website is answered by the CSP.)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..ty_Matters

So now we are led to the Center for Security Policy, and who’s connected to that group?

Dick Cheney, Vice President of the U.S. under George W. Bush, was an early member of Center’s Board of Advisors (which is now called the National Security Advisory Council).

Twenty-two CSP advisers — including additional Reagan-era remnants like Elliott Abrams, Ken deGraffenreid, Paula Dobriansky, Sven Kraemer, Robert Joseph, Robert Andrews and J.D. Crouch — have reoccupied key positions in the national security establishment, as have other true believers of more recent vintage.”

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..#Personnel

I was the first to post this stuff here (I think), but I prefaced it with “Tinfoil hat time.” I honestly believe that the folks being quoted are NOT so naive that they would say these things, even if they believed them.

TREX is upstairs.

TRex upstairs

Twain at 142,
A good example of a politician that did good for his constituents was, in my opinion, Howard Metzenbaum. He was reliable. He held firm views, progressive views, and he voted that way. Unions got out the vote for him very reliably too. I’m not as familiar with John Glenn but I think he was in the same league.

Loo Hoo. @ 39

Jonathan @ 20

Nolo @ 11

Where are the patriots?

I think the U.S. is broken.

Every man (woman) for himself (herself).

Escape the ship before it sinks.

And yes:

Princeton – a degree to Petraes

Yale – a degree to GWB

Yale – a professorship for Wolfie

Harvard – an MBA for shrub

Why do the smart alums of these universities underwrite such awfulness?

And Berkely, a law school position for YOO.

Well Harvard also gave us Gore :-)

wigwam @ 144

I was the first to post this stuff here (I think), but I prefaced it with “Tinfoil hat time.” I honestly believe that the folks being quoted are NOT so naive that they would say these things, even if they believed them.

Ah. Sorry, you made it sound like it was Cliff Shecter approved, and the link was to a google cache, so I couldn’t figure out how Cliff got there. But I’m still worried about your tinfoil hat :-).

Margot @ 147

Twain at 142,
A good example of a politician that did good for his constituents was, in my opinion, Howard Metzenbaum. He was reliable. He held firm views, progressive views, and he voted that way. Unions got out the vote for him very reliably too. I’m not as familiar with John Glenn but I think he was in the same league.

That’s a long list and Metz is a great example. Good one.

babaloo @ 132

You raise an interesting point and one that I’ve thought a lot about. The point is that McNerney fended off a primary challenger who was backed by the evil triumvirate of Hoyer/Emanuel/Tauscher along with the DCCC, a candidate who was widely touted as the ideal candidate for the district because of his “centrist” leanings. It is my considered opinion that this candidate, Steve Filson, could not possibly have unseated Richard Pombo for a variety of reasons, the main one being that his so-called “centrist” positions mostly sounded like pandering and he seemed not to stand for much except getting elected. The key to McNerney’s election was the sense that he was an a person of deep integrity who would not operate based on expediency.

And the reality is that McNerney, promulgating a strong progressive message, won with 53% of the vote. I am frankly worried that his irresolute behavior will jeopardize his reelection and that the voters of his district may be drawn to his Republican opponent who at least stands firm for his beliefs.

So what can I do to prevent that? All I know how to do is to challenge him every time I see him making bad choices.

Quite frankly, this is not about holding him to my ideals; it’s about holding him to his professed ideals. You know, as an example, McNerney was very clear in his campaign about being a gun owner and in favor of protecting the rights of gun owners. Now, this does not correspond with my thoughts on the issue at all. But if McNerney voted against gun control, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of me because I knew going in that he took that position. It’s when he changes his position on issues that were central to his campaign that I’m going to speak out every time.

I hear you, and I think that our areas of agreement are much larger and more important that our areas of disagreement. I’m also willing to consider the possibility that I overreact to the tone of some of what is said here about McNerney.

As I understand it, the demographics of that district, while they are in motion, have not yet moved so far that it can be said to be a “safe” Democratic district. It’s not unreasonable for McNerney to conclude that hedging his bets is the best way to get re-relected. It’s also not unreasonable for McNerney to conclude that when push really comes to shove, progressives won’t bail on him if the price of bailing is to give the seat back to the Republicans. It’s also not unreasonable — at least I hope it’s not unreasonable — for McNerney to believe that it’s OK for him to vote his conscience and his beliefs, and to believe further that if he candidly explains how he got to where he got, progressives will respect him for it and not bail.

There isn’t a lot of instant gratification in politics, and we don’t do ourselves (or the country) any favors if we don’t appropriately manage our expectations. As I’ve said before in this context, you can build a five-run inning out of singles and doubles. It may take longer, and it may not be as sexy as back-to-back-to-back home runs, but it still gets five runs on the board. And isn’t the object of the “game” to score more runs than the other guy?

HAZmaq @ 141

One final bit of shit shoveling to really make you sick:
Colonel Ritchie, M.D, crack Bush bullshitter on trying to downplay the mental health breakdown of our troops, Director of the Office for Behavorial Health, on a panel today discussing the bad report on the poor mental state of our troops. More specifically, the huge numbers of suicides, (101 last year) and attempted suicides (over 900)resulting from 15 day breaks for repetitive 15 month depoloyments.

“It’s hard to stop suicides without taking away their guns”….

“If you’re watching this and are thinking about suicide.. get some help.”

Thanks Doc.

I’ve met Colonel Ritchie, she’s the worst. She could care less about the troops, except in so far as to how to get them back to the war front quickly. It is her policy to fill them up with anti-depressants and ship them back ASAP whether they are well or not.

McN has not changed his position. He has been unwise in his choice of words which have been parsed here as being almost-Rethug. He simply stated he saw some progress. He simply indicated he could be flexible. He did not endorse the war. He did not walk the Rethug walk. He also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.
He is HIS OWN MAN, voted for by US who Walk Our Own Walk, neither taking Dems’ stance or allowing ideals to be shaken.
Criticise him, but I doubt you’ve got the whole story.

I don’t advocate him being shaken out of office. I think he needs to go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully so that the folks who love This Forum can understand what it means to be flexible, reasonable and not disdainful.

RIP – Coalition deaths reach 4,000 in Iraq – mostly Americans (Think Progress).

burnspbesq @ 151,

The makeup of the CA-11 is a big part of the issue here, and most people don’t really understand the district all that well. It is not your typical red or even purple district. The best description I’ve heard of the district is economically liberal and socially conservative. That being said, there is VERY strong anti-war sentiment in the district. San Joaquin County (which makes up the majority of the district) has lost more soldiers in Iraq than any other county in the US — seven of them from Tracy alone. So McNerney’s backpedaling on this issue is not only a repudiation of his campaign platform, it’s politically tone-deaf.

But nobody in DC seems to understand this, and that’s where McNerney’s advice is coming from. To the DC insiders, “conservative” and “Republican” mean that the voters of CA-11 somehow intrinsically support the Iraq war. It just isn’t so. So while it may seem like his grassroots and netroots supporters are rigidly trying to hold him to an ideology, in many ways we are also frustrated by watching him bungle his chances for reelection.

RightOn! @ 153

McN has not changed his position. He has been unwise in his choice of words which have been parsed here as being almost-Rethug. He simply stated he saw some progress. He simply indicated he could be flexible. He did not endorse the war. He did not walk the Rethug walk. He also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.
He is HIS OWN MAN, voted for by US who Walk Our Own Walk, neither taking Dems’ stance or allowing ideals to be shaken.
Criticise him, but I doubt you’ve got the whole story.

I don’t advocate him being shaken out of office. I think he needs to go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully so that the folks who love This Forum can understand what it means to be flexible, reasonable and not disdainful.

Coming out of lurkdom to add (once again) that McNerney is my representative and I worked tirelessly for many months helping his campaign. He does seem to be getting some blue dog mentoring (Cardoza and Taucher)that has me somewhat frustrated, but he has voted with the progressive caucus quite often. He gets a lot of criticism here in CA-11 from the voters who are very conservative. I don’t even know if he can get re-elected as one of our local Republicans (Andal) has already started a campaign and he is known as a very nasty campaigner.
I still support him and he did not cave on FISA.

The reason these democrats are oozing to the right, is that they know what’s coming when our troops start to leave, and it’s scaring the living shit out of them.

That’s what bush has going for him; when he pulled the trigger, it was SO abysmally stupid and non-thought-out, that he can get in his Louis-the-whichever mode of:

“Apres Moi, le bloody-fuckup-even-worse-than-it-is-now.” Which is probably true.

But staying will only put off the denouement of this wretched soap-opera. And make it worse when the troops DO start to get out.

Of course, the “put-off” is all that bush has left to shoot for now. The problem for the dems is that every time one of them starts with the GOP shitspeak, it increases the likelihood that THEY will get stuck with the flaming shitbag, for the next 4 years.

Are you looking forward to that, Jerry?

nonplussed @ 40

I imagine Boxer made an accommodation with an absent Republican. Isn’t that sort of thing commonplace in the “collegial” Senate? Darned if I understand why they feel the need to be so civil to the opposition which has shown themselves time & again to be anything but willing to play “nice”.

To be fair to Senators Boxer, Delahunt, Kerry and others that were absent on the FISA vote…the White House had the SIXTY VOTES necessary due to folks like Feinstein.

Even if these absent liberal Senators had voted against the FISA revisions they would have still failed to prevent the bill a) from clearing cloture (the 60 Votes necessary to place the bill up for a vote and avoid extended filibuster), and to pass the bill.

Other than enunciating their positions in a five minute speech their votes really would have had no impact. But I do wonder if one of the Senators that voted “Yes” perhaps misled them, suggesting that the 60 vote limit wouldn’t be attained?

Peterr @ 24

In Jerry’s March 2007 visit to FDL for a Blue America chat, Howie Klein wrote this in the setup post:

Meanwhile, when I asked the new congressman, a mathematics Ph.D., what he likes most about the gig, he was effusive. “I love the job. I love going out and meeting people and hearing about their issues and their ideas… their passions. It’s one of the things I most enjoy.” He’s been back in the district every weekend, holding “Congressman At The Corner” sessions in Stockton, Tracy, Danville and Morgan Hill so far. These have been well-covered by the media and Jerry has built a good rapport with people who had grown used to Pombo’s imperious and haughty manner. Jerry’s media coverage has been excellent, showing him as engaged in the life of his district, an important factor for a freshman Democrat in a purple district.

This was in March. According to his website, he’s still holding these “Congressman on the Corner” events, and will be in Tracy on Monday 8/20 and Woodbridge on Tuesday 8/21.

It might be worth having a couple local Blue America supporters ask him in person about his apparent change of heart on Iraq. For example . . .

Whatever happened to public timetables for withdrawal that you once supported unconditionally?

You said last year that this “war that has been leveraged by terrorists to incite sectarian violence.” How does staying longer (for an indefinite period) help to reduce the leverage of terrorists?

Much the same sort of outrage flared up when the House failed to attach a time-line to the appropriations bill. Jerry was ‘quoted’ as saying something which sounded like he supported Bush and one of his votes appeared to back Bush.

When I spoke with him about this at the YK2007 fundraiser in SF he stated that he is utterly committed to bring the troops home ASAP.

What does ASAP mean?

Kinda hard to say in a Blue Dog riddled House with Madame Speaker selling out the Farm BIll and caving to the Dogs on seemingly every issue while Bush’s ‘Road Block ReThugs’ splatter their monkee feces all over the process.

You got a problem with Jerry?

Fine.

Go ask him any question you want.

But get your facts straight first. And quotes in the corporatist press are not facts homer. I would have thought that by NOW we in the blogosphere would be a little suspicious of ‘facts’ which smear progressives.

Apparently not.

I would have thought that by NOW progressives would have learned to find out the FACTS before they start doing Karl Rove’s work.

Apparently not.

Note: Jerry’s Progressive Punch rating is higher than Barbara Lee’s. If you care that is…

McNerney definitely needs to be reminded of the failures of the “surge”…the failures to create any sort of space for a stable, UNIFIED Iraqi government…instead the “solution” has been a regime that excludes both the Sunnis and significant groups of Shi’as. They are simply moving the lifeboats on the Titanic.

And McNerney needs to criticize the use of this war to serve as a springboard to attack Iran. Why is it that the vast majority of shaped-charge IED’s are not being used in Shiite-militia controlled areas…but in Sunni areas? How could Shiite militias “supplied by Iran” enter and set up these booby-traps, and then trigger them when US forces come by. This would be suicidal behavior in Sunni-militia zones of control.

Yet Petraeus keeps saying “Iran…Iran…Iran”. How can this man be trusted on ANY statement when he lies about this! McNerney should quite simply say…”I don’t trust you, and I don’t trust your dog-and-pony shows”.

The UK is pulling out of Basra…and in the void rival militias are scrambling for turf. In order to re-establish order…will the US NOW have to “surge” THERE?

How many areas OCCUPIED by the “surge” have been turned over to Iraqi police? Have things simply gone the path of past failures in Fallujah and Baquba when the US military did this?

Hasn’t the “training” of Iraqi troops reached a standstill as US forces are required to act in increasingly larger areas? That’s what the “surge” was for, wasn’t it. But the US “mission” has slithered away…because the strategy was a failure from the onset. Where are the “mixed units”? They stopped because it resulted in “friendly fire” incidents.

And McNerney should have spoken with the translators PRIVATELY…and asked THEM why they all want to get residency visas to the U.S. These folks KNOW the “surge” is failing…that they can’t even go home to their neighborhoods without threats to their families. So they have to hunker down in the “Green Zone”. They are viewed as “quislings” to the “occupiers”. And they recognize what the inevitable consequence of all this is going to be…and it will not be a safe and stable Iraq.

Hopefully McNerney can be swayed back to his more realistic position. No one expects there to be an “immediate withdrawal”…but at the same time further extension of our presence in Iraq really has no potential for success. Any additional, “extensions” simply means more US deaths above what existed if one had withdrawn earlier.

And to value the preservation of weapons systems over US lives is simply illogical. If necessary the hardware should be destroyed on the ground. For Petraeus to raise this issue, the man who lost over a million automatic weapons through theft of uninventoried stock given to the Iraqi Security Forces…is pathetic. Recall as well that these are the same Generals who failed to protect Saddam’s armories from looting. They could haul much of the gear out into the desert abutting Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and stockpile it there, destroying anything else that wasn’t portable. And they know it!

A.Citizen @ 160

Peterr @ 24

In Jerry’s March 2007 visit to FDL for a Blue America chat, Howie Klein wrote this in the setup post:

This was in March. According to his website, he’s still holding these “Congressman on the Corner” events, and will be in Tracy on Monday 8/20 and Woodbridge on Tuesday 8/21.

It might be worth having a couple local Blue America supporters ask him in person about his apparent change of heart on Iraq. For example . . .

Whatever happened to public timetables for withdrawal that you once supported unconditionally?

You said last year that this “war that has been leveraged by terrorists to incite sectarian violence.” How does staying longer (for an indefinite period) help to reduce the leverage of terrorists?

Much the same sort of outrage flared up when the House failed to attach a time-line to the appropriations bill. Jerry was ‘quoted’ as saying something which sounded like he supported Bush and one of his votes appeared to back Bush.

When I spoke with him about this at the YK2007 fundraiser in SF he stated that he is utterly committed to bring the troops home ASAP.

What does ASAP mean?

Kinda hard to say in a Blue Dog riddled House with Madame Speaker selling out the Farm BIll and caving to the Dogs on seemingly every issue while Bush’s ‘Road Block ReThugs’ splatter their monkee feces all over the process.

You got a problem with Jerry?

Fine.

Go ask him any question you want.

But get your facts straight first. And quotes in the corporatist press are not facts homer. I would have thought that by NOW we in the blogosphere would be a little suspicious of ‘facts’ which smear progressives.

Apparently not.

I would have thought that by NOW progressives would have learned to find out the FACTS before they start doing Karl Rove’s work.

Apparently not.

Note: Jerry’s Progressive Punch rating is higher than Barbara Lee’s. If you care that is…

1) Barbara Lee is rated 3rd most Progressive on Progressive Punch. McNerney is 110th.

2) Both Babaloo and I have spoken to McNerney staff members about this and other similar issues. So far nobody has disputed Babaloo’s characterization of McNerney’s stance, nor the fact that it has changed.

To Jane: Thanks for letting Babaloo come here to post. She’s the best expert the blogosphere has on McNerney and I think it’s important that we establish a culture of accountability in Washington. And as they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I don’t agree with those who want to primary McNerney. But he does need some tough love right now. And I think Babaloo is correct that this isn’t about McNerney upsetting those of us who expected more from him, it’s about McNerney actually undercutting his own ability to get re-elected. He’s alienating his base, which is something he can’t afford to do. We need to make sure he understands that people are watching him and that they care about what he does.

Heck, even if he persists in voting the wrong way, he can at least learn to get out in front of the issue and explain his bad votes before people read about them in the paper. The fact that he’s always reacting to the anger or disappointment of his supporters after bad votes gives the impression that he’s not proud of what he’s done and/or that he can’t defend his votes.

Matt @ 162

I don’t agree with those who want to primary McNerney. But he does need some tough love right now.

Yep. Right now.
Nice work.

There is no reason to ask Jerry McNerney anything. Just get to work finding a primary challenger — or an independent challenger for the general election, and make an example out of this sellout motherfucker.

While we’re at it, Joe Sestak in PA deserves the same treatment. Elected with netroots help, he — like Jerry — has taken the thirty pieces of silver and is squarely in George Bush’s corner.

RightOn! @ 153 (emphasis added)

McN has not changed his position. He has been unwise in his choice of words which have been parsed here as being almost-Rethug. He simply stated he saw some progress. He simply indicated he could be flexible. He did not endorse the war. He did not walk the Rethug walk. He also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.
He is HIS OWN MAN, voted for by US who Walk Our Own Walk, neither taking Dems’ stance or allowing ideals to be shaken.
Criticise him, but I doubt you’ve got the whole story.

I don’t advocate him being shaken out of office. I think he needs to go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully so that the folks who love This Forum can understand what it means to be flexible, reasonable and not disdainful.

I don’t think anyone here would disagree that “he has been unwise in his choice of words.” Nor would they disagree that “he also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.”

Further, I totally agree that he could certainly stand to “go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully.”

As to the rest… eh.

The Kool-Aid is free, it’s delicious and goes down so easily.

The Congressman is fresh. He’s unschooled in the behaviors of polished politicians. I like it, and his background in science is a plus, living in a district where many work in the nuclear lab over the Altamont. But it’s not eastern establishment schooled, it’s not honed under pressures of being a hometown politician or local legislator, so, what it is is this: it’s not carefully crafted like so much we read about from Rethugs and Dems alike.
I really think this is a blowup over his communication style and choice of words, not his actual stances or votes.
I also want him to prove me right, by getting us out of Iraq, by giving congress a science-savvy view too.
AND his unseating of Pombo was MAJOR.
We need to rally for this guy as well as hold his feet to the flames without burning him. This forum can be good for doing both.

babaloo @ 165

RightOn! @ 153 (emphasis added)

McN has not changed his position. He has been unwise in his choice of words which have been parsed here as being almost-Rethug. He simply stated he saw some progress. He simply indicated he could be flexible. He did not endorse the war. He did not walk the Rethug walk. He also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.
He is HIS OWN MAN, voted for by US who Walk Our Own Walk, neither taking Dems’ stance or allowing ideals to be shaken.
Criticise him, but I doubt you’ve got the whole story.

I don’t advocate him being shaken out of office. I think he needs to go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully so that the folks who love This Forum can understand what it means to be flexible, reasonable and not disdainful.

I don’t think anyone here would disagree that “he has been unwise in his choice of words.” Nor would they disagree that “he also forgot to describe what he saw as progress so we could understand why he said what he said.”

Further, I totally agree that he could certainly stand to “go to Political Speak School and choose his words more carefully.”

As to the rest… eh.

I think it’s all part of the Vichy Dem’s. I’ve got the Dem’s on probation and I’ve registered as an Independent until they meet a few deadlines.

One item is introduction of articles of impeachment of Bush/Cheney for a vote on the floor of the House of Representatives by the end of 2007.

If the Dem’s can’t even do this, then I’m gone, gone, gone.

Jonathan @ 20

Nolo @ 11

…
And yes:
Princeton – a degree to Petraes
Yale – a degree to GWB
Yale – a professorship for Wolfie
Harvard – an MBA for shrub

…

Does this mean we should never ever support a presidential or senatorial or house candidate who graduated from a ‘top’ school?

jayt @ 69

now the guy from Justice is insinuating that the U.S. District Court, even in an in camera setting, does not have the right to view the document in question.

“No Fair! Secret, Secret, Secret!!!”

“state secret”? Isn’t the Judicial branch part of ‘the state’?

Bush wants to do away with checks and balances, plain and simple.

When he crowns himself Emperor for Life, I wonder if he’ll have a golden sash to match the crown. Maybe a blood red robe and scepter with jewels on one end — just perfect for ramming up the backsides of any American who dares challenge him.

A.Citizen @ 160

Peterr @ 24

I would have thought that by NOW progressives would have learned to find out the FACTS before they start doing Karl Rove’s work.

Apparently not.

Note: Jerry’s Progressive Punch rating is higher than Barbara Lee’s. If you care that is…

Oh, I do care and that’s why I suggest we simply wait and watch and question him a bit before deciding anything.

It was probably just inexpert language meant to smooth over differences, but without actually changing his personal positions. At least I hope that’s all there is to it.

A little feedback from him to his Progressive supporters and everything might work out just fine.