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	<title>Comments on: Popcorn At The Ready&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/</link>
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		<title>By: MikeR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-896429</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-896429</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is easy, and requires minimal oversight, to provide a manual tally of how many people have voted per poll. If there is a discrepancy between the number of people who voted, and the number of votes counted, then there is evidence of either error or fraud or malfunction. Surely this is easily documented.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is easy, and requires minimal oversight, to provide a manual tally of how many people have voted per poll. If there is a discrepancy between the number of people who voted, and the number of votes counted, then there is evidence of either error or fraud or malfunction. Surely this is easily documented.</p>
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		<title>By: molly</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895917</link>
		<dc:creator>molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895917</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interview with Rush Holt in Bradblog archives…Bill Gates won out in the debate over serving the America people or continuing non transparent voting. Holt says WE aren’t interested in this issue.Guess because it wasn’t on MSM. A corporation in his district would make money on non transparent voting. Feinstein ’s bill was even worse. So election fraud is bi partisan.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interview with Rush Holt in Bradblog archives…Bill Gates won out in the debate over serving the America people or continuing non transparent voting. Holt says WE aren’t interested in this issue.Guess because it wasn’t on MSM. A corporation in his district would make money on non transparent voting. Feinstein ’s bill was even worse. So election fraud is bi partisan.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895420</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895420</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-894987&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bob Schacht @ 53&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
ALL of the current voting machines are flawed, because they are run with proprietary code (i.e., secret). We need a new voting machine industry based on open source software and hardware that is regulated.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.BradBlog.com&quot;&gt;www.BradBlog.com&lt;/a&gt; is all over this issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Think on this: regardless of what the software says the chips manufactured abroad could be programmed to produce other results and what is recorded on the computer’s DRE storage isn’t necessarily the same as what would be printed on the tissue paper trail which isn’t even legally a ballot which has ANY meaning, even for a recount.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can see what a pencil or printer marks on a ballot and it can be reviewed by everyone and recounted. You can’t do that with a computer and black box vote storage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There were also a lot of precincts where more votes were recorded than there were registered voters. Clearly a computer can record as many votes as is needed to change the outcome.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Paper ballots all the way!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, you could use a touchscreen computer to help people select their candidates, but you still need a printed paper ballot to see what the vote was. Thus, computer-aided vote casting and printing with hand counting is one way of going. Another is just old-fashioned fill-in-the-circle voting with a pencil on paper.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;California’s SoS Bowen is our hero on this. She’s gonna turn the whole country against those machines.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-894987"><em>Bob Schacht @ 53</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
…<br />
ALL of the current voting machines are flawed, because they are run with proprietary code (i.e., secret). We need a new voting machine industry based on open source software and hardware that is regulated.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.BradBlog.com">http://www.BradBlog.com</a> is all over this issue.</p>
<p>Think on this: regardless of what the software says the chips manufactured abroad could be programmed to produce other results and what is recorded on the computer’s DRE storage isn’t necessarily the same as what would be printed on the tissue paper trail which isn’t even legally a ballot which has ANY meaning, even for a recount.</p>
<p>I can see what a pencil or printer marks on a ballot and it can be reviewed by everyone and recounted. You can’t do that with a computer and black box vote storage.</p>
<p>There were also a lot of precincts where more votes were recorded than there were registered voters. Clearly a computer can record as many votes as is needed to change the outcome.</p>
<p>Paper ballots all the way!</p>
<p>Of course, you could use a touchscreen computer to help people select their candidates, but you still need a printed paper ballot to see what the vote was. Thus, computer-aided vote casting and printing with hand counting is one way of going. Another is just old-fashioned fill-in-the-circle voting with a pencil on paper.</p>
<p>California’s SoS Bowen is our hero on this. She’s gonna turn the whole country against those machines.</p>
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		<title>By: brantl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895249</link>
		<dc:creator>brantl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-894998&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;njprogressive @ 64&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The best proposed legislation on this is H.R. 811, proposed by Representative Rush Holt (D-NJ-12) [voters in the 12th have bumper stickers that say My Congressman Is a Rocket Scientist].&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a great bill, with a underlying principles about how technology can be a help, but there must be vote integrity at every step of the process of voting and counting those votes.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://holt.house.gov/pdf/Fundamental_Requirements.pdf&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for more information.  Then call/write/fax/email your representative, and ask them to be a cosponsor of this legislation.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt; Sorry, HR 811 &lt;b&gt;SUCKS&lt;/b&gt;. It puts the EAC, a commission appointed by the President in charge of your local elections recounts (and this president shouldn’t be allowed to appoint dog-catchers). They have ‘paper trails’ instead of paper ballots, and the trails aren’t the gold standard vote, and frankly people don’t check the paper trails, either. Check out forum threads about HR 811 on &lt;a href=&quot;http://blackboxvoting.org/&quot;&gt;Black Box Voting.org&lt;/a&gt; or the &lt;a href=&quot;http://bradblog.com/&quot;&gt;Bradblog&lt;/a&gt; for in-depth information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-894998"><em>njprogressive @ 64</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The best proposed legislation on this is H.R. 811, proposed by Representative Rush Holt (D-NJ-12) [voters in the 12th have bumper stickers that say My Congressman Is a Rocket Scientist].</p>
<p>It’s a great bill, with a underlying principles about how technology can be a help, but there must be vote integrity at every step of the process of voting and counting those votes.  See <a href="http://holt.house.gov/pdf/Fundamental_Requirements.pdf">here</a> for more information.  Then call/write/fax/email your representative, and ask them to be a cosponsor of this legislation.</p>
</blockquote>
<p> Sorry, HR 811 <b>SUCKS</b>. It puts the EAC, a commission appointed by the President in charge of your local elections recounts (and this president shouldn’t be allowed to appoint dog-catchers). They have ‘paper trails’ instead of paper ballots, and the trails aren’t the gold standard vote, and frankly people don’t check the paper trails, either. Check out forum threads about HR 811 on <a href="http://blackboxvoting.org/">Black Box Voting.org</a> or the <a href="http://bradblog.com/">Bradblog</a> for in-depth information.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895215</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. - Joseph Stalin&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. &#8211; Joseph Stalin</p>
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		<title>By: neokneme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895162</link>
		<dc:creator>neokneme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895162</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Folks need to have confidence in the integrity and continuity of their ballot.  Without the physical ballot, there will always be gross uncertainty.  It reminds me of the digital vs. analog quarrel.  Both have advantages and disadvantages.  Heck, I design digital chips but I prefer the ballsy sound of vacuum tubes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We depend on deterministic functionality in our tools.  Our Enron Administration has gamed the system once again (Diebold is here for you Mr. Bush) and we are all the victims.  Paperless office anyone?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The ability of the American people to speak loudly and with one voice overwhelmed the RNC’s vicious plan to co-opt the election.  BusChen might have gotten away with the “new math” using a few nips and tucks where it counted if it weren’t for this blog and the outrage shared by Greater America.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Long Live Bloggers!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks need to have confidence in the integrity and continuity of their ballot.  Without the physical ballot, there will always be gross uncertainty.  It reminds me of the digital vs. analog quarrel.  Both have advantages and disadvantages.  Heck, I design digital chips but I prefer the ballsy sound of vacuum tubes.</p>
<p>We depend on deterministic functionality in our tools.  Our Enron Administration has gamed the system once again (Diebold is here for you Mr. Bush) and we are all the victims.  Paperless office anyone?</p>
<p>The ability of the American people to speak loudly and with one voice overwhelmed the RNC’s vicious plan to co-opt the election.  BusChen might have gotten away with the “new math” using a few nips and tucks where it counted if it weren’t for this blog and the outrage shared by Greater America.</p>
<p>Long Live Bloggers!</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895148</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895148</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Folks, I added a PS above — and put the direct link into TBogg’s hilarious &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations&quot;&gt;faux moon landing bit&lt;/a&gt;.  Some moronic wingnut welfare recipient actually thought TBogg was serious because he was too damned lazy to click through the link.  Jeebus, where do they find these incurious asshats, anyway?  Anyway, I thought I’d make it easier for the trolls who will come pouring through…oh, wait, this guy has next to no traffic…never mind.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks, I added a PS above — and put the direct link into TBogg’s hilarious <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations">faux moon landing bit</a>.  Some moronic wingnut welfare recipient actually thought TBogg was serious because he was too damned lazy to click through the link.  Jeebus, where do they find these incurious asshats, anyway?  Anyway, I thought I’d make it easier for the trolls who will come pouring through…oh, wait, this guy has next to no traffic…never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: neokneme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895139</link>
		<dc:creator>neokneme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895139</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Personally, I like absentee ballots, but they don’t solve all the problems either.  What if they are stolen or forged?  That is low risk relative to an entire election though.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hacking is just the opposite — It can be done remotely with no paper trail — just ask KKKarl!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wouldn’t care about the schematics unless someone paid me.  Then I’d find a bug in the memory write cycle timing and laugh at the client.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No wonder I’m out of a job.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I like absentee ballots, but they don’t solve all the problems either.  What if they are stolen or forged?  That is low risk relative to an entire election though.  </p>
<p>Hacking is just the opposite — It can be done remotely with no paper trail — just ask KKKarl!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t care about the schematics unless someone paid me.  Then I’d find a bug in the memory write cycle timing and laugh at the client.</p>
<p>No wonder I’m out of a job.</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn urban</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895136</link>
		<dc:creator>carolyn urban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895136</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Michael at Park Slope:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;About the paper ballots -&lt;br /&gt;
The Brennan Center For Justice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brennancenter.org/subpage.asp?key=38&amp;init_key=105&quot;&gt;http://www.brennancenter.org/s.....it_key=105&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brenancenter.org/subpage.asp?key=38&amp;init-key=105&quot;&gt;Brennan Center&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;released a report last fall called “Machinery of Democracy” highlighting the vulnerabilties of electronic voting systems - with or without paper trail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One issue is that states need to have in place a protocol for verifying optical scan votes - a paper trail is of no use unless it is randomly audited - must be public, transparent,and truly random.  None of these shenanigans like those in Ohio in 2004 - notifying precincts in advance that they were chosen for audit; and special “technicians” coming to “service” the harddrives of voting machines, before the votes were recounted.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael at Park Slope:</p>
<p>About the paper ballots -<br />
The Brennan Center For Justice<br />
<a href="http://www.brennancenter.org/subpage.asp?key=38&amp;init_key=105">http://www.brennancenter.org/s&#8230;..it_key=105</a><a href="http://www.brenancenter.org/subpage.asp?key=38&amp;init-key=105">Brennan Center</a></p>
<p>released a report last fall called “Machinery of Democracy” highlighting the vulnerabilties of electronic voting systems &#8211; with or without paper trail.</p>
<p>One issue is that states need to have in place a protocol for verifying optical scan votes &#8211; a paper trail is of no use unless it is randomly audited &#8211; must be public, transparent,and truly random.  None of these shenanigans like those in Ohio in 2004 &#8211; notifying precincts in advance that they were chosen for audit; and special “technicians” coming to “service” the harddrives of voting machines, before the votes were recounted.</p>
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		<title>By: neokneme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895128</link>
		<dc:creator>neokneme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/08/14/popcorn-at-the-ready/#comment-895128</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The proprietary code issue hinged on the Windows CE operating system.  (Now retooled as Windows Mobile)  Users aren’t permitted to see that code thanks to Mr. Bill.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, the systems are just PC’s in republican clothing.  PC’s fail too, but the data paylooad is the real problem.  That is the whole problem.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Would you trust a teleporter to verifiably recreate your personna even if the machine could regenerate the physical body?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;OK that’s farfetched, but the malfeasance meme is a distinct possibility/certainty with the ReBushLickens running things.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proprietary code issue hinged on the Windows CE operating system.  (Now retooled as Windows Mobile)  Users aren’t permitted to see that code thanks to Mr. Bill.</p>
<p>Anyway, the systems are just PC’s in republican clothing.  PC’s fail too, but the data paylooad is the real problem.  That is the whole problem.</p>
<p>Would you trust a teleporter to verifiably recreate your personna even if the machine could regenerate the physical body?</p>
<p>OK that’s farfetched, but the malfeasance meme is a distinct possibility/certainty with the ReBushLickens running things.</p>
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