1?

hello!

doszed?

Interesting. It actually fuels the fire that Gonzo and his gang were pressuring USA Charlton (I think) about the death penalty.

It shows motive.

Hi Teddy,
No, it isn’t too much to ask.

LS @ 4

Interesting. It actually fuels the fire that Gonzo and his gang were pressuring USA Charlton (I think) about the death penalty.

It shows motive.

Yeah, but it also shows the Congresscritters for what they are. Something like this sounds like none of the staffers even read the damn bill. It’s making our government seem more third world all the time. How can you pass a law which no one but the person that wrote it knows what is in it. It is nuts!!

Congress, please repeal the Patriot Act, and while you are at it repeal Addington, Fielding, Gonzo, Cheney, and W.

(((BOSTON)))

Congress, please repeal the Patriot Act, and while you are at it repeal Addington, Fielding, Gonzo, Cheney, and W. Joe Klein’s conscience @ 6

LS @ 4

Interesting. It actually fuels the fire that Gonzo and his gang were pressuring USA Charlton (I think) about the death penalty.

It shows motive.

Yeah, but it also shows the Congresscritters for what they are. Something like this sounds like none of the staffers even read the damn bill. It’s making our government seem more third world all the time. How can you pass a law which no one but the person that wrote it knows what is in it. It is nuts!!

They are not doing their jobs. Useless.

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

Well last time it was Arlen Spector’s office. What mysterious Congress elf put this one in? Or was it the Patriot Act Fairy? It certainly is entertaining trying to get to the bottom of this secretive gnomelike behavior!

You know it is just ludicrous to see
these people who are passing for legislators not
even bother to look at what they are signing into law.
What in hell ARE they doing?

If it weren’t so dangerously irresponsible, it would
be laughable.

Amazing.

David

The interim USAttorney appointment provision also vested authority in the Attorney General that had previously resided with federal judges. The P-Act looks like a pretty stealthy attempt to remove powers from one branch and concentrate them in another.

I gotta wonder, though — has anybody actually read the entire thing, or will we continue to be surprised by these “little-noticed provisions” in a law written and passed in the dark?

Bastards! Bastards! Bastards.

All who voted for this, and all who voted for the new FISA wankery.

Bastards.

OK, I’m done now.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 6

LS @ 4

Interesting. It actually fuels the fire that Gonzo and his gang were pressuring USA Charlton (I think) about the death penalty.

It shows motive.

Yeah, but it also shows the Congresscritters for what they are. Something like this sounds like none of the staffers even read the damn bill. It’s making our government seem more third world all the time. How can you pass a law which no one but the person that wrote it knows what is in it. It is nuts!!

It’s negligence.

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Now if we can get someone from Leahy’s office to do this, identify all these power grab provisions and put together an omnibus bill to remove them all, we might have a start.

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, and then track all the changes through all of them.

CTuttle @ 10

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

That staffer is I believe now the USA in Utah but the provision has been repealed and even signed by Little Boots.

Hiya Teddy SF!

I thought people are always supposed to read what they sign.

Teddy, I totally agree with you on this. How do these things “slip” past congress members with paid staff? Don’t they put people in charge of reading these bills and highlighting anything questionable? Wouldn’t you fire said staffer who didn’t catch these things?

In fact, put yourself in the place of a critter. This long into this administration, wouldn’t you read every single word of a bill yourself before voting? How many times do you let someone make a complete buffoon of you?

I swear, all 535 members of Congress should be forced to sit down and read the whole damned bill.

But why bother when you can just say you voted for something with “Patriot” in the name?

Snarl grumble grumble.

What? You seriously expect the members of Congress to know what they’re voting on? The nerve!

So…Gonzo controls who the USA’s are.
He controls what gets investigated.
He controls who gets spied on.
He controls when people die.

Impeach Now!

SnarKassandra @ 19

Hiya Teddy SF!

I thought people are always supposed to read what they sign.

Yes, but not, apparently, what they vote for.

dakine01 @ 18

CTuttle @ 10

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

That staffer is I believe now the USA in Utah but the provision has been repealed and even signed by Little Boots.

F*ck up, Move up…!!! :-(

LS @ 23

So…Gonzo controls who the USA’s are.
He controls what gets investigated.
He controls who gets spied on.
He controls when people die.

Impeach Now!

Does he control the weather? Someone check the fine print, cuz I am over the 100 degree temperature thing.

dakine01

Beat me to it.

How about we just simply repeal the things, then do only the changes that are actually needed, and do it so people can see what’s being changed? You know, like an actual responsible legislature should do?

SnarKassandra @ 19

Hiya Teddy SF!

I thought people are always supposed to read what they sign.

GoodMrsPuma always does that for me. But…I think if I was voting on legislation that might conceivably change the balance of powers in American government, I might consider paying some direct attention.

SnarKassandra @ 19

Hiya Teddy SF!

I thought people are always supposed to read what they sign.

Hi, Cassie, how was the couch…? ;-)

Teddy! Thanks for bringing this to the front page. IIRC, in a recent SJC hearing, Gonzo was asked about how much time he spends reviewing death sentences before approving. He confirmed it was just a few minutes per case.

I spend a fair amount of time reminding Arkansans that Senator Mark “Lieberlovin’” Pryor approved of torture boys AG nomination and must say once it sinks in, people stay upset about it. And much to my surprise, many folks who are pro death penalty seem to get how horrific this kind of inattention is.

When will we suffer our last miserable discovery of the evils in the Patriot Act?

Holy smokes. MSNBC “consultant” Prediction that Rove will show up on Netanyahu’s campaign.

Hmmmm…kinda hard to make him abide by contempt charges if he’s in Israel.

Yup, Teddy, that line is getting really, really old.

It’s not hard to trace the provenance of it, either, given how happy Bush and Gonzales were dispatch people in Tejas without anything resembling adequate review.

For such a mealy-mouthed little fuck, Gonzales certainly does have a mean streak in him… sort of like his boss.

CTuttle @ 29

SnarKassandra @ 19

Hiya Teddy SF!

I thought people are always supposed to read what they sign.

Hi, Cassie, how was the couch…? ;-)

Prob quieter than your house.
How is your hurricane?

Re: little known provision…

Members of the House and Senate don’t write legislation (staff members, agency experts, and dark-shadow individuals do). They just vote on it, believing they understand the politics of it all.

The system doesn’t demand competency or honesty. It only demands political skills.

You can be a dumbfuck like Hastert, just for example, and hire all kinds of bright grads from Harvard, Yale, etc.

P J Evans @ 17

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, nd then track all the changes through all of them.

And who is doing this fine work? Got a name? Addington?

P J Evans @ 27

dakine01

Beat me to it.

How about we just simply repeal the things, then do only the changes that are actually needed, and do it so people can see what’s being changed? You know, like an actual responsible legislature should do?

Well, we know the legislative session where these atrocities occurred was not an actual responsible legislature but rather just a bunch of corrupt rethugs running the Constitution into the ground.

I agree, and I think it’s yet another instance of the reluctance to recognize that the Republican caucus aren’t playing by the rules. I think the Democratic leadership has at least partly come around to the idea that administration officials are routinely flouting any laws or rules that get in their way, but they still don’t want to believe that their esteemed colleagues are full partners with the bullies in the White House, not just reluctant followers.

I can understand it having been hard to accept that people you associate with on a daily basis and who seem reasonable as individuals will stab you in the back at a moment’s notice without regard for the “august traditions” of the body. But I think we’re well beyond the point where it’s obvious that they are never negotiating in good faith.

I’m sure it’s a major pain to look for land mines in everything congressional Republicans do, not matter how small, but what alternative is there?

CTuttle @ 10

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

Because the US Senate is a very polite, collegial institution where it is considered rude to publicly expose peers’ f*ck*ps to scrutiny by the masses.

CTuttle @ 10

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

That’s a congressional investigation I would sure like to see.

P J Evans @ 17

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, nd then track all the changes through all of them.

Wouldn’t this make one particularly suspicious though? It’s always the fine print that nobody wants to read that trips you up later. As this, apparently, has.

Saying it was complicated doesn’t excuse the legislative malpractice, in my view. These people are very well-paid, well-fed, and well-staffed. Legislation is the very essence of their jobs. It should be done correctly. Or at least it should not be “little-noticed!”

LS @ 31

Holy smokes. MSNBC “consultant” Prediction that Rove will show up on Netanyahu’s campaign.

Hmmmm…kinda hard to make him abide by contempt charges if he’s in Israel.

Or Shrub, if he parachutes into Paraguay afterwards… Hmmm… What is it about S. America and Fascists…??? ;-)

Honestly, I think Rove is gonna split the country!

How can this be part of the Patriot Act? Did they just slip in every authoritarian measure they could think of at the time?

Dr Zen @ 43

How can this be part of the Patriot Act? Did they just slip in every authoritarian measure they could think of at the time?

Of course they did.

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that we don’t know about.

LS @ 31

Holy smokes. MSNBC “consultant” Prediction that Rove will show up on Netanyahu’s campaign.

Hmmmm…kinda hard to make him abide by contempt charges if he’s in Israel.

it’s like a cancer, metastasizing

LS @ 45

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that we don’t know about.

Better check if they can cancel elections for president.

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Now if we can get someone from Leahy’s office to do this, identify all these power grab provisions and put together an omnibus bill to remove them all, we might have a start.

Holy Jeepers! So it’s like an intricate puzzle and only those who know the meaning can fit the pieces together and then it means something the people who actually read it (if they did) and voted on it don’t know it means!

Conspiracy, anyone?

Rudy promises.

“We can end illegal immigration. I promise you, we can end illegal immigration,” the former New York mayor said at a community center the first of the day’s two stops in this early voting state.

SnarKassandra @ 33

CTuttle @ 29

Hi, Cassie, how was the couch…? ;-)

Prob quieter than your house.
How is your hurricane?

Blustery and cold!!! Had a 5.3 tremblor last nite at 7:30, my house is the local emergency shelter for half the teenagers in town right now… …since school was canceled! Sheesh!!! :-)

P J Evans @ 17

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, nd then track all the changes through all of them.

Is it too much to ask that
1) all changes to existing legislation provide full context
2) the practice of endless amendmeents and earmarking on legislation be ENDED
3) ALl revisions be posted on internet for smoe minimum period of time for public review

And other goodies like this?

Jeebus.

Hello all! Thanks to Christy and all those who post here. And especially thanks to those who comment – it makes for a feeling of belonging (most of the time).

I submitted a comment (question) on the last post and want to place it here as well (I finally am in sync with the time of posting and won’t be on the tail end – I truly would like some feedback).

Is anyone here knowledgeable about the rules of introducing legislation in the House and Senate? Does not the majority party (Dems) control this, as we do in the Texas Lege with the calendar?

If the Democratic leadership controls this function, why not encourage them to simply withhold introducing or bringing up any legislation for a vote. We’re not going to be able to get enough votes from the Repubs or from turncoat Democrats if 60 is the magic number in the Senate. What’s wrong with that?

The wiretapping legislation is sunsetting in February. The political situation will be the same, perhaps more volatile. Why even entertain voting? Let the damn law sunset.

Likewise any other pieces of legislation Bush wants to push off on us. Just don’t act on it.
(for instance: making his tax cuts permanent, giving more authority to Gonzo, taking more of our rights away, etc.)

Legislation covering getting out of Iraq, even if it is defeated, could be introduced – showing where the Congressperson stands, for or against this war, would be a good thing.

Emergency legislation for running the government, natural disasters, etc., could be presented for a vote.

We need to let the Democratic leadership in Congress know that we have their backs and will support them when the inevitable PR slam is stepped up.

If someone out there knows how legislation is introduced in Congress and what pitfalls there might be to this idea, please comment. I will be reading.

Thanks,
Marilyn in San Antonio

I’m sure it’s a major pain to look for land mines in everything congressional Republicans do, not matter how small, but what alternative is there?

There is no alternative. How many times are they going to allow themselves to be kicked?

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Now if we can get someone from Leahy’s office to do this, identify all these power grab provisions and put together an omnibus bill to remove them all, we might have a start.

Yeah, the Patriot Act was almost entirely a huge collection of tweaks to other laws, which makes it harder to write a repeal bill than usual.

I’d still eagerly vote for a candidate who promised to repeal everything since Bush came into office, and doing it over right for the few parts that are actually necessary.

CTuttle @ 50

SnarKassandra @ 33

Prob quieter than your house.
How is your hurricane?

Blustery and cold!!! Had a 5.3 tremblor last nite at 7:30, my house is the local emergency shelter for half the teenagers in town right now… …since school was canceled! Sheesh!!! :-)

Sounds like fun!

Are they cooking stuff in your kitchen or did you buy them 100 lbs of snack food?

fdl reader @ 48

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Now if we can get someone from Leahy’s office to do this, identify all these power grab provisions and put together an omnibus bill to remove them all, we might have a start.

Holy Jeepers! So it’s like an intricate puzzle and only those who know the meaning can fit the pieces together and then it means something the people who actually read it (if they did) and voted on it don’t know it means!

Conspiracy, anyone?

Evil and wicked.

fdl reader @ 39

CTuttle @ 10

How come we haven’t heard anything more about Scottish Haggis’ staffer slipping in the Authority to appoint USA’s without the Senate’s Advise and Consent???

That’s a congressional investigation I would sure like to see.

don’t hold your breath. but it sure would be nice.

Soon to be Israeli PM Bibi is just itching to attack Syria, and for us to attack Iran.

LS @ 45

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that we don’t know about.

Important question.

My job (for which I get paid) is to translate complex tax law into everyday understanding (details omitted).

Why didn’t someone in the MSM, where there a lot of highly educated individuals, do the same re the Patriot Act?

Big, big, gap and flaw here.

ughhh it gets uglier and uglier …. have the dems noticed his increased powers??? oh i see just let the blogosphere worry about these things… we’re in RECESS!!

Dr Zen @ 43

How can this be part of the Patriot Act? Did they just slip in every authoritarian measure they could think of at the time?

Big bills are ideal for this sort of thing. I think the draft of the revisions went over two hundred pages. And, as LHP has said, when it’s just substitution language, you practically have to have a law library and clerks working for you to go through it all.

That, and the fact that many of these things are slipped in during and after conference, and that the `pugs were often giving everyone no more than a few hours to read the final bill before voting, and the result is inevitable.

What I find extraordinary is that most of this stuff is done on desktop publishing, and there is document comparison software out there, so why isn’t it being used to fullest advantage? If you have no time to read it all, why not use the technology available to at least flag changes?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 58

Soon to be Israeli PM Bibi is just itching to attack Syria, and for us to attack Iran.

I think there’s enough wars already. Time for a giant TIME OUT SEASE FIRE in that corner of the world.

Redshift @ 37

I agree, and I think it’s yet another instance of the reluctance to recognize that the Republican caucus aren’t playing by the rules. I think the Democratic leadership has at least partly come around to the idea that administration officials are routinely flouting any laws or rules that get in their way, but they still don’t want to believe that their esteemed colleagues are full partners with the bullies in the White House, not just reluctant followers.

I can understand it having been hard to accept that people you associate with on a daily basis and who seem reasonable as individuals will stab you in the back at a moment’s notice without regard for the “august traditions” of the body. But I think we’re well beyond the point where it’s obvious that they are never negotiating in good faith.

I’m sure it’s a major pain to look for land mines in everything congressional Republicans do, not matter how small, but what alternative is there?

And, still, Reid plays Charlie Brown while Lucy (Bush) holds the football. Recess deal:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has quietly shelved plans to hold the Senate in pro forma session this month after the White House agreed to refrain from making any executive appointments during the Senators’ August break.

Sources in both parties said the two parties reached an understanding whereby Reid agreed to move a series of outstanding White House nominations — 42 in total — before the Senate left town on Aug. 3. The Bush administration, meanwhile, agreed to refrain from making any surprise recess appointments over the break.

“Our leadership and their people sat down and decided it’s in nobody’s best interest to have this fight play out over August,” a senior Democratic Senate aide said. “Ultimately, no one wins.”

Not holding my breath for all of August, but I am very trepidatious. I am sure Rove is pushing Bush to renege on this deal as Rove goes out the door.

Can’t we just regard the Patriot Act as just a goddamn piece of paper like W regards the Constitution?

LS @ 64

Can’t we just regard the Patriot Act as just a goddamn piece of paper like W regards the Constitution?

Yes but they will arrest you.

LS @ 45

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that we don’t know about.

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that they don’t know about — the folks who passed it!

LS @ 31

Holy smokes. MSNBC “consultant” Prediction that Rove will show up on Netanyahu’s campaign.

Hmmmm…kinda hard to make him abide by contempt charges if he’s in Israel.

If that prediction you mentioned has any basis in fact, will Joe Lieberman be Bibi’s running mate? :)

fdl reader @ 48

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Now if we can get someone from Leahy’s office to do this, identify all these power grab provisions and put together an omnibus bill to remove them all, we might have a start.

Holy Jeepers! So it’s like an intricate puzzle and only those who know the meaning can fit the pieces together and then it means something the people who actually read it (if they did) and voted on it don’t know it means!

Conspiracy, anyone?

You’d think that they might have already started this process, perhaps about the time the first “little noticed provision”, the one authorizing AGAG’s USA appointment power was brought to their attention. Jesus! This gets old fast.

TeddySanFran @ 66

LS @ 45

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that we don’t know about.

I wonder what else is in the Patriot Act that they don’t know about — the folks who passed it!

That’s what I meant to say :}

Oklahoma kiddo @ 49

Rudy promises.

“We can end illegal immigration. I promise you, we can end illegal immigration,” the former New York mayor said at a community center the first of the day’s two stops in this early voting state.

Yeah, just like we (re-defined and) ended torture.

SnarKassandra @ 55

CTuttle @ 50

Blustery and cold!!! Had a 5.3 tremblor last nite at 7:30, my house is the local emergency shelter for half the teenagers in town right now… …since school was canceled! Sheesh!!! :-)

Sounds like fun!

Are they cooking stuff in your kitchen or did you buy them 100 lbs of snack food?

Heck, I’m lucky that I have use of my Computer…!!! ;-) (I draw the line somewhere…)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 58

Soon to be Israeli PM Bibi is just itching to attack Syria, and for us to attack Iran.

Yep.

-GSD

LS @ 64

Can’t we just regard the Patriot Act as just a goddamn piece of paper like W regards the Constitution?

We should be able to void it on the grounds that our elected representatives were unaware of what the Act really represented.

And it is an ever growing misrepresentation, imo.

Void it.

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

Why are there little noticed provisions in legislation? Isn’t legislating their job? Shouldn’t they read crap that they pass? Would we accept this level of slackness from any other highly paid professional? Would it be ok for a chef to say “because of a little noticed provision in our kitchen, your meal tastes like ass” ? Memo to Congress–if you don’t have time to read the bills, make time–or don’t pass them.

LS @ 74

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

I think they put stuff in that changed a different law, but they didn’t attach the different law in a footnote or an appendix like you do at school.

Late to the party on Rove, and OT, but….

Rove’s merger of politics and policy was an effort to forge a total one-party state. While he is acclaimed as a political strategist, his true innovation was in governing. He sought to subordinate the entire federal government to his goal of creating a permanent Republican majority.

This, along with the very catchy meme: Rove was for the Republican Far Right Wingers Party, and not for Americans–must be kept alive in the blogosphere. It is concise, direct, and correct. Goodbye, and good riddance, indeed.

Congress is complacent and needs to be replaced.

Marilyn In Texas @ 52

Hello all! Thanks to Christy and all those who post here. And especially thanks to those who comment – it makes for a feeling of belonging (most of the time).

I submitted a comment (question) on the last post and want to place it here as well (I finally am in sync with the time of posting and won’t be on the tail end – I truly would like some feedback).

Is anyone here knowledgeable about the rules of introducing legislation in the House and Senate? Does not the majority party (Dems) control this, as we do in the Texas Lege with the calendar?

If the Democratic leadership controls this function, why not encourage them to simply withhold introducing or bringing up any legislation for a vote. We’re not going to be able to get enough votes from the Repubs or from turncoat Democrats if 60 is the magic number in the Senate. What’s wrong with that?

The wiretapping legislation is sunsetting in February. The political situation will be the same, perhaps more volatile. Why even entertain voting? Let the damn law sunset.

Likewise any other pieces of legislation Bush wants to push off on us. Just don’t act on it.
(for instance: making his tax cuts permanent, giving more authority to Gonzo, taking more of our rights away, etc.)

Legislation covering getting out of Iraq, even if it is defeated, could be introduced – showing where the Congressperson stands, for or against this war, would be a good thing.

Emergency legislation for running the government, natural disasters, etc., could be presented for a vote.

We need to let the Democratic leadership in Congress know that we have their backs and will support them when the inevitable PR slam is stepped up.

If someone out there knows how legislation is introduced in Congress and what pitfalls there might be to this idea, please comment. I will be reading.

Thanks,
Marilyn in San Antonio

Marilyn, this kind of stuff only works for Republican’s, it seems. DC Dems are too chicken-shit to try to get tough when they get the majority. Dunno why, really. Extremely frustrating, to me, watching it happen, because the repugs only respond to threats, imo.

TeddySanFran @ 40

Saying it was complicated doesn’t excuse the legislative malpractice, in my view. These people are very well-paid, well-fed, and well-staffed. Legislation is the very essence of their jobs. It should be done correctly. Or at least it should not be “little-noticed!”

And even if they were too lazy to read it themselves, couldn’t they assign some of their bright young staffers to figure it out for them? Really shameless.

Tori Clark just said that Obama is attracting the higher income, more well-educated democrats, and that Hillary is attracting the less educated, low-income voter.

Where in the world would she get that kind of information?

cancer_cures @ 78

Congress is complacent and needs to be replaced.

Agree. The next revolution is to replace the republican form of government with what is pretty much a pure democracy.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 67

LS @ 31

Holy smokes. MSNBC “consultant” Prediction that Rove will show up on Netanyahu’s campaign.

Hmmmm…kinda hard to make him abide by contempt charges if he’s in Israel.

If that prediction you mentioned has any basis in fact, will Joe Lieberman be Bibi’s running mate? :)

They can have him, and the Progressive-controlled Congress should reduce the amount of aid to Israel significantly.

LS @ 74

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

It’s the type of deal where the things is stated as (for example – using made up numbers):
In US Code 18.36.36 change the wording in para 222 from “reviewed by US District court judge within 200 working days” to “expedited review by Attorney General or designee within 10 working days”

NO KIDDING! We should all be PAID a set amount of cash for every time we have had to hear or read that line in the news, on blogs, wherever (more on blogs than any news channel to be sure!)! It IS NOT too much to ask that they completely read these things nd understand them before they sign, pass or do ANYTHING with them. I feel so lame and it’s such a stupid question to ask anyone running for anything if she or he will actually COMMIT TO FULLY READING THE LEGISLATION! However, it is obvious to me that we need to press that as an issue with them all.

Thank you soooo much Firedoglake, for all you do. I’ve not posted here before but have been a faithful follower of this blog for a long time now. YOU GUYS (GIRLS) ROCK!

siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org

cleter –707

Architect: “Due to a little-noticed provision in the blueprints, your home has no doors or windows.”

Car dealer: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your purchase agreement, your automobile has no motor or wheels.”

Mortgage broker: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your home loan, your interest rate has now risen to usurious levels after only one year.”

Ooops, scratch that last one.

What the hell does “little-noticed” really mean? Seen but not realized? Hidden in plain sight?

Loo Hoo. @ 81

Tori Clark just said that Obama is attracting the higher income, more well-educated democrats, and that Hillary is attracting the less educated, low-income voter.

Where in the world would she get that kind of information?

Loo Hoo, they just make it up as they go along. No one ever calls them on it, at least in DC, so why shouldn’t they.

congressfolk just sign on the dotted line w/o reading…and we get bit in the ass by their stupidity… its a wonder thecountry still stands – i am tired of this.. if we notice these things – they have staff – WTF do they do?

TeddySanFran @ 86

cleter –707

Architect: “Due to a little-noticed provision in the blueprints, your home has no doors or windows.”

Car dealer: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your purchase agreement, your automobile has no motor or wheels.”

Mortgage broker: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your home loan, your interest rate has now risen to usurious levels after only one year.”

Ooops, scratch that last one.

We had a landlord once promise to replace the windows. So after we signed the lease and all, he had the windows taken out, put stuff on the edges, and then re-placed them right back into the window sill.

dakine01 @ 84

LS @ 74

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

It’s the type of deal where the things is stated as (for example – using made up numbers):
In US Code 18.36.36 change the wording in para 222 from “reviewed by US District court judge within 200 working days” to “expedited review by Attorney General or designee within 10 working days”

Which is how the majority of W’s Executive Orders read as well.

I saw this story in the LA Times, and had the exact same reaction. Appalling.

SnarKassandra @ 76

LS @ 74

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

I think they put stuff in that changed a different law, but they didn’t attach the different law in a footnote or an appendix like you do at school.

Sure sounds like it.

PB (peanut butter) @ 51

3) ALL revisions be posted on internet for some minimum period of time for public review

Yes! That would be the smartest thing they could do.

No longer acceptable to draft legislation citing strike pp# and replace with the following:____.

There is plenty of superb software to show draft deletions, proposed revisions, etc through inserts and strikeovers in various colors, and disclosing all text. They’re lawyers, they know that.

What happened with the recent discussions about posting all proposed law changes online in advance of the votes (though probably too late to propose reasonable revisions)?

Posting from initiation and following proposals would alter the playing field with a huge tip toward democracy — I’m sure many in the general public would find the time to help out the legislators (and lobbiests) by sifting through changes and discussing implications
on line.

The info is there in text and it shouldn’t cause unduly burdensome tech problems (my guess is that it is actually done in the legislative offices).

Disclosure and participation like that would undoubtedly be Congresses worst nightmare. But, the more they say things like unnoticed, slipped in, etc, the harder it becomes not to support curative legislation.

Well I guess is to ask your congress critters if they were supportive of that line in the Patriot act which allows the Attorney General to have an active hand in executions.

If they say, ‘yes’, well senator, why do you feel it’s okay for the Attorney General to oversee a states issue?

If they say, ‘no’, well senator, why didn’t you make an effort to have that one element of the Patriot Act removed?

If they say, ‘I was not aware of it’, tell them: well senator, YOUR FIRED!

SeamusD @ 79

Marilyn In Texas @ 52

Hello all! Thanks to Christy and all those who post here. And especially thanks to those who comment – it makes for a feeling of belonging (most of the time).

I submitted a comment (question) on the last post and want to place it here as well (I finally am in sync with the time of posting and won’t be on the tail end – I truly would like some feedback).

Is anyone here knowledgeable about the rules of introducing legislation in the House and Senate? Does not the majority party (Dems) control this, as we do in the Texas Lege with the calendar?

If the Democratic leadership controls this function, why not encourage them to simply withhold introducing or bringing up any legislation for a vote. We’re not going to be able to get enough votes from the Repubs or from turncoat Democrats if 60 is the magic number in the Senate. What’s wrong with that?

The wiretapping legislation is sunsetting in February. The political situation will be the same, perhaps more volatile. Why even entertain voting? Let the damn law sunset.

Likewise any other pieces of legislation Bush wants to push off on us. Just don’t act on it.
(for instance: making his tax cuts permanent, giving more authority to Gonzo, taking more of our rights away, etc.)

Legislation covering getting out of Iraq, even if it is defeated, could be introduced – showing where the Congressperson stands, for or against this war, would be a good thing.

Emergency legislation for running the government, natural disasters, etc., could be presented for a vote.

We need to let the Democratic leadership in Congress know that we have their backs and will support them when the inevitable PR slam is stepped up.

If someone out there knows how legislation is introduced in Congress and what pitfalls there might be to this idea, please comment. I will be reading.

Thanks,
Marilyn in San Antonio

Marilyn, this kind of stuff only works for Republican’s, it seems. DC Dems are too chicken-shit to try to get tough when they get the majority. Dunno why, really. Extremely frustrating, to me, watching it happen, because the repugs only respond to threats, imo.

I called my congressman about this very thing.
“Aren’t we in the majority? Don’t we control what comes up for a vote and what doesn’t? Why did you all let the thing (FISA is what I was calling about) come up for a vote!?”
He’s a blue dog and he’s simply weak.
He’s scared of ticking off Repubs in his district, and cares not a whit about pleasing Dems. I hope he didn’t unpack….

spurious @ 94

PB (peanut butter) @ 51

3) ALL revisions be posted on internet for some minimum period of time for public review

Yes! That would be the smartest thing they could do.

Didn’t Pelosi promise that when she became speaker?

LS @ 87

What the hell does “little-noticed” really mean? Seen but not realized? Hidden in plain sight?

Shoved were the sun don’t shine.

SnarKassandra @ 76

LS @ 74

So, are you saying they put things into the PA that refer to things that are not in the wording of the act, and they changed the wording, except that it is so subtle that it doesn’t appear to be a there, there, unless you know the “code” of where the changes are or what they have changed? Something like that?

I think they put stuff in that changed a different law, but they didn’t attach the different law in a footnote or an appendix like you do at school.

If you have every read Statutes and/or the CFR, a simple modification in a single line radically changes the intent! I’m a junkie(Paralegal) for it, but, it is mind-numbing verbiage that you have to parse!!!

LS @ 87

What the hell does “little-noticed” really mean? Seen but not realized? Hidden in plain sight?

Seen and not understood is probably best description. Hidden in plain sight as it would take having a staffer take the time to sit down and review the proposed changes against the actual current laws as written.

Given that these were slapped together by Bushites and planned for in advance although presented as emergencies to the congress AND included the sneaking in of bits without telling anyone, there are likely to be all sorts of potential unconstitutional tidbits snuck in that haven’t been discovered as yet.

They’re making sausage (fascism) with the tenderloin (civil liberties).

P J Evans @ 17

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, nd then track all the changes through all of them.

Lawyers in commercial litigation get paid to do this; often, contracts incorporate external documents (such as industry standards) by reference, but add or remove certain requirements; and as a project proceeds to completion, the underlying contract may be modified multiple times. You have to track what’s actually in the contract, and when it was added or removed, to determine whether the contract was breached on a given date.

It’s a pain in the ass. But it gets done, in cases all across America, every single day.

LS @ 87

What the hell does “little-noticed” really mean? Seen but not realized? Hidden in plain sight?

Noticed only by tiny, little, small people.

SunnyNobility @ 95

No longer acceptable to draft legislation citing strike pp# and replace with the following:____.

There is plenty of superb software to show draft deletions, proposed revisions, etc through inserts and strikeovers in various colors, and disclosing all text. They’re lawyers, they know that.

What happened with the recent discussions about posting all proposed law changes online in advance of the votes (though probably too late to propose reasonable revisions)?

Posting from initiation and following proposals would alter the playing field with a huge tip toward democracy — I’m sure many in the general public would find the time to help out the legislators (and lobbiests) by sifting through changes and discussing implications
on line.

The info is there in text and it shouldn’t cause unduly burdensome tech problems (my guess is that it is actually done in the legislative offices).

Disclosure and participation like that would undoubtedly be Congresses worst nightmare. But, the more they say things like unnoticed, slipped in, etc, the harder it becomes not to support curative legislation.

Don’t forget that this was done under the auspices of the Corrupt 109th Congress ruled by the rethugs. They didn’t WANT it to be found easily.

Isn’t a fascist coup or any other coup by the Administration using deception, illegal somewhere in a “little-noticed” place in the law or the Constitution????

Get Tough @ 83

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 67

If that prediction you mentioned has any basis in fact, will Joe Lieberman be Bibi’s running mate? :)

They can have him, and the Progressive-controlled Congress should reduce the amount of aid to Israel significantly.

Holy shit!! Think about all that top-secret no-forn intelligence Rove had access to. He should NEVER be allowed to go to work for an Israeli politician with the kind of stuff I’ll bet he knows. Not for ANY foreign politician.Not for at least a couple of years. This is serious shit!!

Loo Hoo. @ 81

Tori Clark just said that Obama is attracting the higher income, more well-educated democrats, and that Hillary is attracting the less educated, low-income voter.

Where in the world would she get that kind of information?

Actually, while painting with a broad brush, she’s not far off base from polls I’ve read that show the “elites” in the party are choosing Obama while the non-elites are choosing Clinton. She is doing especially well among non-college educated women, while Obama leads among college-educated women. From June:

Clinton, in contrast, is a classic Democrat. She does best among women, Democratic partisans, older voters, and less-educated and lower-income workers. She trumps Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, her top rival and an African-American, among blacks.

That mix of support could help her win Democratic primaries, but she faces hurdles in the general election. She draws only 1 in 4 independents who “lean” Democratic, for example, and 1 in 4 white men in the Democratic sample.

Loo Hoo. @ 104

LS @ 87

What the hell does “little-noticed” really mean? Seen but not realized? Hidden in plain sight?

Noticed only by tiny, little, small people.

lol apparently that is true!

Eureka Springs @ 102

They’re making sausage (fascism) with the tenderloin (civil liberties).

as a civil liberties lover and a steak lover this is a most disturbing image.

We’ve been couped by the Administration. I’ve had enough.

LS @ 106

Isn’t a fascist coup or any other coup by the Administration using deception, illegal somewhere in a “little-noticed” place in the law or the Constitution????

Not if the Roberts Court is in on the coup.

SeamusD @107,

George H.W. Bush consults for the Saudi Family using his state secrets.

I had a little lunch, chatted with a neighbor, read a little and dozed off. I think the latter two were pure escapism. It was so calm and nice. Here I am listened to The News Hour and reading your comments on the last two threads.

I love the discussion on deadly toys thrown out to the public by toy corporations. Here is a new concept – quality control. It used to be a major part of every company with a consumer product. It was the most critical part of the company because without it the company could sink, rarely regaining its good reputation. Thanks to Ronnie, deregulation was eliminated. And Quality Control became marginalized and finally redefined altogether.

Before it hits the shelves, have quality control check each product at the factory and before if necessary. Young children won’t end up with deadly magnets in their stomachs.

SeamusD @ 88

Loo Hoo. @ 81

Tori Clark just said that Obama is attracting the higher income, more well-educated democrats, and that Hillary is attracting the less educated, low-income voter.

Where in the world would she get that kind of information?

Loo Hoo, they just make it up as they go along. No one ever calls them on it, at least in DC, so why shouldn’t they.

I’ve heard this before, mainly from well-off people who hold their noses at the thought that life’s little unpleasantries may actually ever dare to affect them.
This is from The Well-Armed Lamb
Happy Birthday To Social Security: 72 Years Today

On August 14, 1935, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act into law, creating unemployment compensation, old-age benefits and aid to dependent children.

“We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age.” — President Roosevelt at the signing

SnarKassandra @ 62

Oklahoma kiddo @ 58

Soon to be Israeli PM Bibi is just itching to attack Syria, and for us to attack Iran.

I think there’s enough wars already. Time for a giant TIME OUT CEASE FIRE in that corner of the world.

From your mouth to God’s ears….

The Bushites are getting a little testy while on vacation.

Hillary is busting George’s balls and they don’t like it.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The White House on Tuesday assailed Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for criticizing President Bush in her latest television ad, calling her statements “outrageous.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wi…..e-clinton/

Loo Hoo at 8, just got off the phone trying to figure out what to do, thank you.

SnarKassandra @ 90

TeddySanFran @ 86

cleter –707

Architect: “Due to a little-noticed provision in the blueprints, your home has no doors or windows.”

Car dealer: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your purchase agreement, your automobile has no motor or wheels.”

Mortgage broker: “Due to a little-noticed provision in your home loan, your interest rate has now risen to usurious levels after only one year.”

Ooops, scratch that last one.

We had a landlord once promise to replace the windows. So after we signed the lease and all, he had the windows taken out, put stuff on the edges, and then re-placed them right back into the window sill.

Sounds like the landlords I had in San Francisco. Boy, is property falling apart there.

“[L]ittle noticed” means some smart, legally-trained, highly paid, people in the MSM chose to keep quiet in furtherance of their self-interest.

cancer_cures @ 113

SeamusD @107,

George H.W. Bush consults for the Saudi Family using his state secrets.

Yea, I know. But I trust him discretion a hell of a lot more than I do Rove’s. Bush has a family tradition of selling state secrets and knows where to draw the line, since Prescott got caught with the Nazi’s. Rove’s a rookie. *s*

Steve-AR @ 117

The Bushites are getting a little testy while on vacation.

Hillary is busting George’s balls and they don’t like it.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The White House on Tuesday assailed Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for criticizing President Bush in her latest television ad, calling her statements “outrageous.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wi…..e-clinton/

*Clutching pearls* Daring to criticize the king?

Unseemly behavior. I wonder which White House staffer suggested, “off with her head!”

Jonathan @ 120

“[L]ittle noticed” means some smart, legally-trained, highly paid, people in the MSM chose to keep quiet in furtherance of their self-interest.

Actually, I think it is just a bunch of lazy a**es who didn’t bother to actually do anything but took on some level of faith that there was nothing more in the bill than they were told.

You know, the type indicative of the corporate owned media who don’t yet realize that these clowns are NOT their friends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html

From today’s Froomkin on Rove:

Massimo Calabresi writes for Time: “At his emotional goodbye with George W. Bush on the South lawn of the White House Monday, Karl Rove painted a portrait of a presidency made of strong vision and epochal goals. . . .

“As the country heads into the 2008 election, the public’s verdict on Bush and Rove’s vision may not be nearly as kind. With poll numbers stacked against the GOP nationwide, 2008 could become as great a rejection of signature Bush policies and his party as the 2006 mid-term election was. Thanks to that threat, the post-Rove White House already finds itself preoccupied with extracting itself from the shoals where Bush and Rove’s grand visions have foundered. In that sense, the Bush administration has already begun repudiating the grandest ideas, and the legacy, of the man who was its chief architect.”

dakine01 @123

I respect your views. I do.

But lawyers are trained not to miss “little noticed” provisions. There’s no accident here on the part of lawyers in the MSM.

Steve-AR @ 117

The Bushites are getting a little testy while on vacation.

Hillary is busting George’s balls and they don’t like it.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The White House on Tuesday assailed Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for criticizing President Bush in her latest television ad, calling her statements “outrageous.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wi…..e-clinton/

What Senator Clinton is saying is true. Perhaps the Senator might want to remind herself though, that we’re spending $12,000,000,000 per month (that we know about) on senseless war. That would buy a fair amount of health care and child care.

Jonathan @ 125

dakine01 @123

I respect your views. I do.

But lawyers are trained not to miss “little noticed” provisions. There’s no accident here on the part of lawyers in the MSM.

Not only the MSM’s, howzabout the Legislators’ Legal Eagles??? ;-)

Jonathan @ 125

dakine01 @123

I respect your views. I do.

But lawyers are trained not to miss “little noticed” provisions. There’s no accident here on the part of lawyers in the MSM.

I totally understand that but from what I have heard as to how this bill is set up (and I know what you are talking about for contracts and such as I’ve had that job), I say again, I think they were just flat out lazy and chose not to do the necessary research to determine exactly what the changes portended. It would have been a level of tedious research that most of the lawyers for hire on the corporate owned media feel is beneath them now that they get to be talking heads.

OT..We really need to take back the machinery of government and start flushing out the sewers.

Fox News Caught Editing Al Franken’s Wikipedia Entry

by: Matt Stoller
Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 18:37:16 PM EDT
There’s a new tool out there that lets you search the destination IP addresses for people editing wikipedia entries. Arthur Bergman found that at Fox News’s IP address were editing Al Franken’s entry. Apparently, Fox News propagandists deleted Franken’s statement that Fox News’s legal case against Franken was “”literally laughed out of court” and that “wholly (holy) without merit” is a good characterization of Fox News itself.” The Fox News user also added a ‘liberal’ adjective when characterizing the NPR show ‘Fresh Air’.

http://www.openleft.com/frontPage.do

dakine01 @ 128

Jonathan @ 125

dakine01 @123

I respect your views. I do.

But lawyers are trained not to miss “little noticed” provisions. There’s no accident here on the part of lawyers in the MSM.

I totally understand that but from what I have heard as to how this bill is set up (and I know what you are talking about for contracts and such as I’ve had that job), I say again, I think they were just flat out lazy and chose not to do the necessary research to determine exactly what the changes portended. It would have been a level of tedious research that most of the lawyers for hire on the corporate owned media feel is beneath them now that they get to be talking heads.

I agree that laziness trumps competence.

Steve-AR @ 129

OT..We really need to take back the machinery of government and start flushing out the sewers.

Fox News Caught Editing Al Franken’s Wikipedia Entry

by: Matt Stoller
Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 18:37:16 PM EDT
There’s a new tool out there that lets you search the destination IP addresses for people editing wikipedia entries. Arthur Bergman found that at Fox News’s IP address were editing Al Franken’s entry. Apparently, Fox News propagandists deleted Franken’s statement that Fox News’s legal case against Franken was “”literally laughed out of court” and that “wholly (holy) without merit” is a good characterization of Fox News itself.” The Fox News user also added a ‘liberal’ adjective when characterizing the NPR show ‘Fresh Air’.

http://www.openleft.com/frontPage.do

Heh, …any surprise there?

dakine01 @ 105–

Absolutely, but it is (at least purportedly) a new day. Given the data in a manageable form with reasonable lead time, I’ll bet the blogosphere would, almost organically, assemble some brilliant working groups capable of informed feedback. The old controlled sham public hearing days (chat with business and lobbiests in the dark) should draw to a close. The “we didn’t realize” stuff should end.

CTuttle @ 127

Jonathan @ 125

dakine01 @123

I respect your views. I do.

But lawyers are trained not to miss “little noticed” provisions. There’s no accident here on the part of lawyers in the MSM.

Not only the MSM’s, howzabout the Legislators’ Legal Eagles??? ;-)

If I’m a lawyer for a congress person, I’m thinking on two levels: what can my boss justify as legal, what can my boss sell politically.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 126

What Senator Clinton is saying is true. Perhaps the Senator might want to remind herself though, that we’re spending $12,000,000,000 per month (that we know about) on senseless war. That would buy a fair amount of health care and child care.

and a whole lot more, like some infrastructure repairs, energy research, and …

Oklahoma kiddo @ 126

Steve-AR @ 117

The Bushites are getting a little testy while on vacation.

Hillary is busting George’s balls and they don’t like it.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The White House on Tuesday assailed Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for criticizing President Bush in her latest television ad, calling her statements “outrageous.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wi…..e-clinton/

What Senator Clinton is saying is true. Perhaps the Senator might want to remind herself though, that we’re spending $12,000,000,000 per month (that we know about) on senseless war. That would buy a fair amount of health care and child care.

My comment was more directed at the WH response to a political ad in Iowa in August. Are they lashing out because they feel the “walls are closing in”? A paranoid psychopath really makes me nervous.

EPU’d from this morning:

looseheadprop says:

August 14th, 2007 at 7:23 am

AZ Matt @ 103

looseheadprop,

I wonder how many more little known provisions are in the Patriot Act. This is getting crazy.

The killer is, I pulled it an read it as the time and instead of whole text, there are lots of provisions that say (this is not a real example) “subchapter 2 of title LLLXV is heareby anmmended as follows: ” in the name of the” in subparagraph e(ii)(2)(b) is delated.”

Three pages later you get “subchapter 3 of title LLXV at section A subparagraph 1(a) (iv) is ammended to include the words the “Attonerney General shall have sole”

So unless yo seperately look up each of those sections, hand change them and then read both those sections AND other provisions of law that either reference them or cover the same territory, you won’t catch it just by reading the Patriot Act version that contains the ammendment.

You may also need to research and read a couple of law review articles and or CRS reports to fully understand the signifigance of what you are looking at.

The press doesn’t have that kind of time or intellectual curiosty. Me, I squeeze this kind of research in between an active law practice, lots of bar association and other volunteer work (voter rights come first), so that by the time I think I have it down, the news cycle has moved on without me.

I’m sure there are lots more time bombs in that piece of crap and Pelosi and Reid should never have allowed it to be finalized in such an impenitrable form

Steve-AR @ 135

Oklahoma kiddo @ 126

What Senator Clinton is saying is true. Perhaps the Senator might want to remind herself though, that we’re spending $12,000,000,000 per month (that we know about) on senseless war. That would buy a fair amount of health care and child care.

My comment was more directed at the WH response to a political ad in Iowa in August. Are they lashing out because they feel the “walls are closing in”? A paranoid psychopath really makes me nervous.

and that particular paranoid psychopath makes the whole world nervous.

Steve-AR @ 129

OT..We really need to take back the machinery of government and start flushing out the sewers.

Fox News Caught Editing Al Franken’s Wikipedia Entry

by: Matt Stoller
Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 18:37:16 PM EDT
There’s a new tool out there that lets you search the destination IP addresses for people editing wikipedia entries. Arthur Bergman found that at Fox News’s IP address were editing Al Franken’s entry. Apparently, Fox News propagandists deleted Franken’s statement that Fox News’s legal case against Franken was “”literally laughed out of court” and that “wholly (holy) without merit” is a good characterization of Fox News itself.” The Fox News user also added a ‘liberal’ adjective when characterizing the NPR show ‘Fresh Air’.

http://www.openleft.com/frontPage.do

I am no techy but it would be nice if one could place some sort of rss alert/notice when a certain ip makes changes.

Boston1775 @ 118

Loo Hoo at 8, just got off the phone trying to figure out what to do, thank you.

(((((((Boston)))))))

SunnyNobility @ 132

dakine01 @ 105

Absolutely, but it is (at least purportedly) a new day. Given the data in a manageable form with reasonable lead time, I’ll bet the blogosphere would, almost organically, assemble some brilliant working groups capable of informed feedback. The old controlled sham public hearing days (chat with business and lobbiests in the dark) should draw to a close. The “we didn’t realize” stuff should end.

And if our Congress wanted it to end, it would. The lack of sunshine is intentional, not inadvertent.

Jonathan @ 133

CTuttle @ 127

Not only the MSM’s, howzabout the Legislators’ Legal Eagles??? ;-)

If I’m a lawyer for a congress person, I’m thinking on two levels: what can my boss justify as legal, what can my boss sell politically.

Capiche! Yet, Either sides of the aisle, need to scrutinize any and all legislation, prior to the subsequent vote!!

Look if we can trust Abu to oversee the new NSA wiretapping program we can trust him to do right by death penalty cases. After all he did so well in Texas on them.

Apologies if it has been said before.

Not reading the bills seems to be part and parcel of the, to me, surreal decision making abilities of our Senate Leadership.

From a TPM Muckraker story by Paul Kiel
entitled Dems Work to Foil White House Recess Ploys

There’ll be no recess appointments this time around, Roll Call reports (sub. req.), meaning

the White House won’t be taking advantage of Congress’ vacation to install any contested nominees. That’s due to a deal between Bush and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV).

Last recess, the White House made a number of controversial recess appointments, including Swift Boat backer Sam Fox as ambassador to Belgium. In order to prevent that sort of thing from happening again, Reid had plotted to keep the Senate in “pro forma” session during the recess — whereby the Senate floor personnel show up every three days to make it an official session.

But now Reid and Bush have made a deal, according to Roll Call. Bush won’t make any recess appointments and Reid has promised to move some of his nominees when Senate gets back in session.

Someone, por favor, tell me i am just going crazy here.

Because to me eet looks as eef Harry Reid just blocked the recess appointments of administration officials who would be gone een 500 days or so, een return for making eet likely that Bush’s judicial nominees will get passed on to serve on the court for life.

I would love to be wrong about thees.

so.

Hugh,

Have you noticed anything strange about gasoline prices lately?

How about a “Easily Understood Provision”?
All bills must be written so that anyone with a high school education can easily understand what a bill says and what it means.
All bills to be published and posted on the internet 1 month prior to a vote?

Hey, AZ Matt, thanks for bringing that forward from this morning. This 24/7 FDL cycle as the sun moves westward means things from the early morning apply later in the day, and I appreciate your highlighting lhp’s comments on this issue.

Steve-AR @ 135

Oklahoma kiddo @ 126

What Senator Clinton is saying is true. Perhaps the Senator might want to remind herself though, that we’re spending $12,000,000,000 per month (that we know about) on senseless war. That would buy a fair amount of health care and child care.

My comment was more directed at the WH response to a political ad in Iowa in August. Are they lashing out because they feel the “walls are closing in”? A paranoid psychopath really makes me nervous.

I understood at whom you were aiming. Most of us realize, I think, what an utter crybaby, given to tantrums, our toddler prez is. Good point. ;0)!

Steve-AR @ 117

The Bushites are getting a little testy while on vacation.

Hillary is busting George’s balls and they don’t like it.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The White House on Tuesday assailed Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for criticizing President Bush in her latest television ad, calling her statements “outrageous.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h
uff-wires/20070814/white
-house-clinton/

Here’s the Hillary ad:

I like it a lot. Glad the administration hates it!!!

The feeling in this house is that Gore would blow any of the Republican candidates clean out of the water.

!El Gato Negro! @ 143

Not reading the bills seems to be part and parcel of the, to me, surreal decision making abilities of our Senate Leadership.

From a TPM Muckraker story by Paul Kiel
entitled Dems Work to Foil White House Recess Ploys

There’ll be no recess appointments this time around, Roll Call reports (sub. req.), meaning

the White House won’t be taking advantage of Congress’ vacation to install any contested nominees. That’s due to a deal between Bush and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV).

Last recess, the White House made a number of controversial recess appointments, including Swift Boat backer Sam Fox as ambassador to Belgium. In order to prevent that sort of thing from happening again, Reid had plotted to keep the Senate in “pro forma” session during the recess — whereby the Senate floor personnel show up every three days to make it an official session.

But now Reid and Bush have made a deal, according to Roll Call. Bush won’t make any recess appointments and Reid has promised to move some of his nominees when Senate gets back in session.

Someone, por favor, tell me i am just going crazy here.

Because to me eet looks as eef Harry Reid just blocked the recess appointments of administration officials who would be gone een 500 days or so, een return for making eet likely that Bush’s judicial nominees will get passed on to serve on the court for life.

I would love to be wrong about thees.

so.

Ahs no, el gato, you’re not loco! More reason to can Harry’s ass as Majority Leader!!!

Who is taking Rove’s place? (not that anyone can fill his smelly shoes)

TeddySanFran @ 146

Hey, AZ Matt, thanks for bringing that forward from this morning. This 24/7 FDL cycle as the sun moves westward means things from the early morning apply later in the day, and I appreciate your highlighting lhp’s comments on this issue.

What are friends for!

Steve-AR at @129,

Well wiki-posters will be able to catch the dumb ones this way.

But wait til they start setting up proxies or dummy IPs. Then there’s no way to find out who was behind it. I suspect that this will start becoming a problem with WIKI in the coming few years.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 149

The feeling in this house is that Gore would blow any of the Republican candidates clean out of the water.

And the Dem Candidates, to boot!!! *g*

Dakine, sorry. You didn’t say that, I did. I’m a rookie.. Should have previewed.

SunnyNobility @ 132

Absolutely, but it is (at least purportedly) a new day. Given the data in a manageable form with reasonable lead time, I’ll bet the blogosphere would, almost organically, assemble some brilliant working groups capable of informed feedback. The old controlled sham public hearing days (chat with business and lobbiests in the dark) should draw to a close. The “we didn’t realize” stuff should end.

HRC may or may not be the Republican dream candidate. A Gore candidacy, it’s felt, would be their worst nightmare.

CTuttle @ 150

Ahs no, el gato, you’re not loco! More reason to can Harry’s ass as Majority Leader!!!

Who would you like to see replace him?
(I wouldn’t be sorry to see him go.)

SunnyNobility @ 155

Dakine, sorry. You didn’t say that, I did. I’m a rookie.. Should have previewed.

SunnyNobility @ 132

I understood.

egregious @ 144

Hugh,

Have you noticed anything strange about gasoline prices lately?

Who here truly understands gasoline pricing?

I suspect those who understand gasoline pricing are making a lot of money in the short term.

Or are aimed at making a whole lot of money in the long term and exist in dark, dark shadows.

With the nine US Iraq War casualties reported but not confirmed by the DoD today, the total coalition casualties for the war are at 3,996. For all we know, the total has already gone over 4,000 with all the reports of violence in Northern Iraq coming in almost hourly.

if the dems cannot replace the ole blue dogs it’ll be the same-ole-same in 2008 – lets hope the dems win the WH otherwise we can kiss this democratic republic bye-bye

And why would Abu even want the power to put people to death sooner?

Here’s a current snapshot of Flossie!

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/west/cpac/wv-l.jpg

Very sorry but most Congrescritters are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too busy talking on the phone raising all that luscious dough they need to keep their seats warm in the Houses of the People to actually read what they vote for.

Just what the world needs.

AP – Benjamin Netanyahu swept the race to lead Israel’s hardline Lik*d Party, a party official said, boosting his ambitions to reclaim the country’s premiership.

Eureka Springs @ 138

I am no techy but it would be nice if one could place some sort of rss alert/notice when a certain ip makes changes.

Wikipedia Scanner is supposed to allow one to track Wiki edits, such as by the evil vote stealing, company Diebold.

Fox Noise has been busy trying to create their bright, shiny lies, with lots of Wiki edits. Fox made numerous wiki edits for Keith Olbermann, Al Franken, CNN, and lots of others.

Is Wiki run by liberal, loud mouth, fem bird dogging, internet hoodlum, fanatics?

Loo Hoo. @ 162

And why would Abu even want the power to put people to death sooner?

Abu does what he’s told. If he’s told to say, “let er rip,” he’ll do it. He’s just a tool.

You see what they are doing here. The adults are in charge. They don’t need us to remind them about recess appointments. Harry is dealing with it. Instead of those nasty contentious appointment hearings, the nice Bushies have agreed to stop recess appointing of activist judges, and allow Harry Reid to quietly rubber stamp Southwick, et al. No dirty hippy blogger uproar, no contentious FISA revamping in October. Reid got his vacation, Pelosi keeps impeachment in her pocket and General Patraeus’s won’t deliver any surprises. Can’t we just all get along, please!!

Ed*ard Teller @ 160

With the nine US Iraq War casualties reported but not confirmed by the DoD today, the total coalition casualties for the war are at 3,996. For all we know, the total has already gone over 4,000 with all the reports of violence in Northern Iraq coming in almost hourly.

A most auspicious milestone… Out of Iraq, Now!!!

The economy is showing stress fractures, and the fed.s are dumping billions into what will be companies like the saving and loan mess, when people are worried about their finances its hard for them to concentrate on other things. Rove now gone, why, so the dark lord can push us into bombing Iran? or other reasons. So many distractions that derail a concerted focus on what is really happening to the nation, if you can overload the stream of information, a great deal of evil can be done in the open.

“Last year’s XYZ Act” always contains the implicit “when Republicans were in charge.” We know now that this sometimes mean that things can get slipped into an Act after it has been passed by both Houses and conference committee, and before the President signs the bill– we can’t blame congresspersons for not examining what was not available to see. And we also know that things can get slipped into the Act anywhere along the way. And then we also get these “Omnibus” bills consisting of thousands of mind-numbing pages that no one could read through, even if allowed.

Now that Democrats are in charge, they need to change the Standard Operating Procedures. The leadership needs to take more responsibility for vetting these bills and their tons of ear-marks.

And, by the way, viewed in long historical perspective, this is a good reason for (a) voting a split ticket, and (b) giving the President a line-item veto (with a provision for Congress to over-ride the line item veto by a simple majority vote.) That’s the way to screen out this kind of crap.

Maybe they also ought to impose a page limit on bills: 500 pages max. Anything longer must be split up into two bills.

Bob in HI

Hey, kitty! It sounds like a pretty stupid trade to me, let alone trusting Bush on a handshake deal. Reid already called the President a liar, although he apologized. Why trust him now?

As I read it, the deal is for administrative appointments, which means we may see some dreadful judges in August yet.

SeamusD @ 168

You see what they are doing here. The adults are in charge. They don’t need us to remind them about recess appointments. Harry is dealing with it. Instead of those nasty contentious appointment hearings, the nice Bushies have agreed to stop recess appointing of activist judges, and allow Harry Reid to quietly rubber stamp Southwick, et al. No dirty hippy blogger uproar, no contentious FISA revamping in October. Reid got his vacation, Pelosi keeps impeachment in her pocket and General Patraeus’s won’t deliver any surprises. Can’t we just all get along, please!!

in the immortal word of Ted Stevens
“NO!”

Arca @ 145

How about a “Easily Understood Provision”?
All bills must be written so that anyone with a high school education can easily understand what a bill says and what it means.
All bills to be published and posted on the internet 1 month prior to a vote?

Let’s do that on the propositions too. They are ridiculous.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..0814/iraq/

Four massive bomb attacks in Iraq… 175 dead, 200 wounded. “The death toll was the highest in a concerted attack since Nov. 23″

The oil companies must realy like it when the customer pays for the gasoline with a credit card. Wonder how much that gallon of gas actually ends up costing the consumer in the end.

CTuttle @ 169

Ed*ard Teller @ 160

With the nine US Iraq War casualties reported but not confirmed by the DoD today, the total coalition casualties for the war are at 3,996. For all we know, the total has already gone over 4,000 with all the reports of violence in Northern Iraq coming in almost hourly.

A most auspicious milestone… Out of Iraq, Now!!!

I meant to say “deaths,” not “casualties.” Total U.S. casualties are at 32,125.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 156

HRC may or may not be the Republican dream candidate. A Gore candidacy, it’s felt, would be their worst nightmare.

She’s their nightmare candidate, OKK. Why do you think they spend so much energy on her? Philosophically, they should be beating up on Kucinich and Paul.

egregious @ 144

Hugh,

Have you noticed anything strange about gasoline prices lately?

Do you have anything in mind? Things have been sort of front loaded this year. The maintenance scams in the spring jacked up prices, political pushback and fairly good supplies resulted in an unusual midsummer price decline. This has continued. Inventory figures for the week will be out tomorrow and will provide some indication as to whether the slope will flatten or not. We should be in the seasonal downturn as the summer driving season ends. The countervailing tendency is if inventories decline. What was surprising given the setup earlier in the year was that supplies were pretty good over the summer.

The thing to look for in the next couple of days is the tropical storm out in the Atlantic. So far this has place mild pressure on gasoline and crude oil prices. This may change if it strenghtens or takes a track toward Gulf coast facilities.

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. . . .

Why can’t they shift to submitting drafts in Microsoft Word “Track changes” mode, where you can see everything, new text and deletions, together? I mean, its not like we don’t have the technology to do it.

Bob in HI

Me3 @ 175

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..0814/iraq/

Four massive bomb attacks in Iraq… 175 dead, 200 wounded. “The death toll was the highest in a concerted attack since Nov. 23″

American GI deaths got up to about 500 a week in Viet Nam before the public began to turn against the war.

Bush and his advisers sense we’re way below that level in terms of public outcry.

Wonder what Petraeus will will us next month? ‘We’re making progress. We have the situation under control. Everything’s cool’?

bobschacht @ 180

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. . . .

Why can’t they shift to submitting drafts in Microsoft Word “Track changes” mode, where you can see everything, new text and deletions, together? I mean, its not like we don’t have the technology to do it.

Bob in HI

Because then folks like you and me would know what is going on and call BullSh*t sooner rather than later?

Frank33 @ 166

Is Wiki run by liberal, loud mouth, fem bird dogging, internet hoodlum, fanatics?

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

Loo Hoo. @ 178

Oklahoma kiddo @ 156

HRC may or may not be the Republican dream candidate. A Gore candidacy, it’s felt, would be their worst nightmare.

She’s their nightmare candidate, OKK. Why do you think they spend so much energy on her? Philosophically, they should be beating up on Kucinich and Paul.

That’s an interesting slant. ;0)

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

Ed*ard Teller @ 177

CTuttle @ 169

A most auspicious milestone… Out of Iraq, Now!!!

I meant to say “deaths,” not “casualties.” Total U.S. casualties are at 32,125.

The Brits are taking more also. First 7 months of ‘06=16 KIA..same period ‘07=37 KIA.

Jonathan @ 34

Re: little known provision…

Members of the House and Senate don’t write legislation (staff members, agency experts, and dark-shadow individuals do). They just vote on it, believing they understand the politics of it all.

The system doesn’t demand competency or honesty. It only demands political skills.

You can be a dumbfuck like Hastert, just for example, and hire all kinds of bright grads from Harvard, Yale, etc.

its’ because of the money. The critters have to spend most of their time just drumming up enough cash to get re-elected. That doesn’t leave much time for, you know, legislatin’.

from link at nolo @ 186

Senator Specter has urged me to write to you directly and suggest that we sit down together to work out our differences with respect to this matter. That is the purpose of this letter.

What are these congressional staffs doing? I would have thought that they would prepare summaries of all legislation to be voted on and flag any odd stuff?

Jonathan @ 181

American GI deaths got up to about 500 a week in Viet Nam before the public began to turn against the war.

Bush and his advisers sense we’re way below that level in terms of public outcry.

Plus there was the draft back then… But do not assume the political viability of the war will not cause changes. The public is crying out, GOP poll numbers and campaign funding continue to fall.

They are welcome to stay the course until the very end (theirs)… Rove was Bush’s key advisor.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 182

Wonder what Petraeus will will us next month? ‘We’re making progress. We have the situation under control. Everything’s cool’?

Today’s bombings in Iraq show how desperate the insurgents are and how well the surge is working, don’t ya know?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 185

Loo Hoo. @ 178

She’s their nightmare candidate, OKK. Why do you think they spend so much energy on her? Philosophically, they should be beating up on Kucinich and Paul.

That’s an interesting slant. ;0)

They know Kucinich and Paul won’t make it in the home stretch. They are most busy attacking Obama and Edwards because the person they want to go up against is HRC.

Brush fire wars should be fought by proxies not the principles, as the get out of hand they grow in unpredictable ways, or so a poli sci prof once told me. But this is a war with new features, its an information and control of information feature, with a highly fragile infra structure, the principle aggressor see,s its own people a potential enemies and has put in place the ability to confine anyone at anytime for any reason (or no reason). We have marginalize traditional allies and institution’s so they cannot this train wreck ,once a controlled economic soft failure occurs, well you come up with your own conclusion.

P J Evans @ 17

JK’s conscience @ 6

LHP was looking at this, and said that a lot of the provisions and revisions in it are done by reference, rather than by quoting the old text and the change. You know the style, it’s saying stuff like ‘amend Article X, section 999 by removing the words …’. She was saying it’s almost impossible to tell what was actually being done, because you have to have the laws being changed in front of you, and then track all the changes through all of them.

We’ve got computers and they are still passing law books around?

Put the damn thing on a computer system that will automate all that and let people read the full text of what was and what might be, so they will have no excuse for not knowing what they’re voting on.

Transparency is good!

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

CTuttle @ 163

Here’s a current snapshot of Flossie!

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/west/cpac/wv-l.jpg

That provides an impressive pix of Flossie, but it’s kinda hard to read. I prefer this one for a 5 day forecast, and this satellite photo, which has an outline of the Islands drawn in for orientation. I’m hoping that Flossie stays south and doesn’t turn north! If she stays on course, we’ll get rain and wind and waves, but not too badly.

Bob in HI

Hugh @ 192

Oklahoma kiddo @ 182

Wonder what Petraeus will will us next month? ‘We’re making progress. We have the situation under control. Everything’s cool’?

Today’s bombings in Iraq show how desperate the insurgents are and how well the surge is working, don’t ya know?

Death toll down.. Surge working. Death toll up.. Surge working.

me3 @191

The draft.

I know many here oppose it.

I support it. For several reasons.

Mainly because we wouldn’t be in Iraq if there were a draft.

MarkH @ 195

Transparency is good!

It’s also probably why they don’t do it.

Worst year in Viet Nam was 68–over 16,000 deaths. (about 300 per week)

TeddySanFran @ 140

And if our Congress wanted it to end, it would. The lack of sunshine is intentional, not inadvertent.

———

Exactly. They’ve set themselves up, now is the time to demand change.
(can’t seem to close the quote, sorry)
Sunny

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

How (un)common is it for the chair of a Senate committee to request a face to face meeting with the President directly?

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

Hugh, I’m asking about gas prices because I hear anecdotal information that prices have dropped precipitously in selected parts of the country. Just wondered if that coincided with rebellions against the administration among wingers.

montag @ 204

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

I wonder if Little Boots will face Leahy without his ventriloquist present?

montag @ 204

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

His letter says that Specter requested that Leahy write Bush. The key has to be there.

GordonM @ 184

Frank33 @ 166

Is Wiki run by liberal, loud mouth, fem bird dogging, internet hoodlum, fanatics?

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

Kinda like Fox’s attempt at a comedy show to rival Stewart? Some thing just ain’t.

Helen @ 196

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Pin the tail on the elephant.

Well at lest little boots can’t appoint a horse to the Senate (but the courts maybe half a horse).

montag @ 204

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

I hope he’s not holding his breath. Perhaps, he is really reaching the end of his leash. Inherent contempt? One can only hope. For who? Rove, Miers, who else didn’t even show up for Senate subpoenas?

Kinda like Fox’s attempt at a comedy show to rival Stewart? Some thing just ain’t.

Funny you should mention that;
Fox’s Right-Wing Alternative To Daily Show Fails

In January, Fox announced that it would begin airing the “Half Hour News Hour” on Sunday nights, the so-called “right-wing answer to ‘The Daily Show With Jon Stewart.‘” “You can turn on any show and see Bush being bashed,” said creator Joel Surnow, producer of Fox’s 24. “There really is nothing out there for those who want satire that tilts right.” As Fox has learned, that’s because no one wants to watch that kind of satire.

TVNewser reports today that the HHNH has been canceled. In a memo to senior producers today, Fox News Corp.’s senior vice president Bill Shine announced:

Joel Surnow and I have mutually decided that we will not continue the Half Hour News Hour beyond its current 15 episode run. The last show will be presented on September 16th.

Shine claimed the reason for the shelving of the show was that Fox is “considering ways to retool the show for future scheduling needs.” He held out the chance that the show would air again: “There is still a chance you will see the program at some point in the future.”

snip

http://thinkprogress.org/

Helen @ 208

montag @ 204

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

His letter says that Specter requested that Leahy write Bush. The key has to be there.

Leahy is known in Washington as one hell of a letter writer. Beyond that, not much else.

dakine01 @ 16

TSF!

Looseheadprop said on an earlier thread that she had looked at this and that what it appeared to be was the the changes just referenced a paragraph in the code and then added or deleted specific phrasing without explicitly providing the complete information being changed.

It would actually take someone sitting down with the various proposed changes AND the actual current code to check on the changes. Which Snarlin’ Arlen was sure to avoid when he was in charge.

Yep. I tried to read the original Patriot Act, and quickly realized that it can’t be done, unless one is sitting in a law library, with *lots* of man-hours to spend deciphering and cross-referencing it. IIRC, one of the house of Congress was given two days to read before voting, the other House was given one day.

No way they read it – and *no* way it was written “in response to” 9-11, nor could it have been put together in such a short period of time.

It’s 8:00 p.m. here EST.

I’m hoping some foul-mouthed fems will come along and keep me awake.

Steve-AR @ 187

Ed*ard Teller @ 177

I meant to say “deaths,” not “casualties.” Total U.S. casualties are at 32,125.

The Brits are taking more also. First 7 months of ‘06=16 KIA..same period ‘07=37 KIA.

So technically, the surge is not a surge, just a replacement of casualties?

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

Thanks, nolo!

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Not that I qualify, but I suspect he just wants to get inside the bubble. I think it’s a good move. If it doesn’t happen, it makes Bush look scared (think Cindy Sheehan at her finest); if it does happen Bubble boy will likely crap his pants.

Helen @ 208

montag @ 204

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

His letter says that Specter requested that Leahy write Bush. The key has to be there.

that’s my thinking, too.

maybe some kind of ritual to satisfy the President’s ego?

perhaps the way to get Gonzales out as Attorney General?

(What we need, and we need it now, is an honest Attorney General.)

Jonathan @ 199

me3 @191

The draft.

I know many here oppose it.

I support it. For several reasons.

Mainly because we wouldn’t be in Iraq if there were a draft.

Ah, did the draft prevent Vietnam, or actually encourage the buildup that occurred once Johnson assumed office?

A ready supply of cannon fodder enables all manner of evil. I could just as easily say that a draft imposed now might keep Iraq roiling for a decade, if there were the political will to do so. As we’ve seen, both Democrats and Republicans have shown that they’re happy to expend American lives in pointless wars.

As well, no one at present is seriously suggesting that an expansion of the war into Syria and Iran (or Pakistan, for that matter) is possible–precisely because of manpower shortages. Does a draft make those things more or less likely?

SeamusD @ 212

montag @ 204

Leahy probably still holds out some hope that Bush can be negotiated with. My guess is that Leahy’s going to be sorely disappointed.

I hope he’s not holding his breath. Perhaps, he is really reaching the end of his leash. Inherent contempt? One can only hope. For who? Rove, Miers, who else didn’t even show up for Senate subpoenas?

I believe Miers did not show up in response to a House subpoena. Rove did not show in response to the Senate. Also, Josh Bolton did not respond to a Senate subpoena (he was asked just for documents, I believe)

marilyn #52

I tried to answer your question in an earlier thread.

The Senate accords its majority leader prime responsibility for scheduling. He may carry out this responsibility by moving that the Senate proceed to consider a particular matter. By precedent, he and the minority leader are recognized preferentially, and by custom only he (or his designee) makes motions or requests affecting when the Senate will meet and what it will consider.

For executive business, this motion to proceed may be offered in a nondebatable form, but for legislative business it usually is debatable. Whenever possible, therefore, the majority leader instead calls up bills and resolutions by unanimous consent. If Senators object to unanimous consent to take up a measure, they are implicitly threatening to filibuster a motion to consider it. They may do so because they oppose that measure, or in the hope of influencing action on some other matter.

Senators can even place a “hold” on a measure or nomination, although this practice is not recognized in Senate rules. “Holds” are requests by Senators to their party’s floor leader to object on their behalf to any request to consider a matter, at least until they have been consulted. The majority leader will usually not even request consent to consider a measure if there is a hold on it.

http://www.senate.gov/legislat…..cess.htm#3

GordonM @ 184

Frank33 @ 166

Is Wiki run by liberal, loud mouth, fem bird dogging, internet hoodlum, fanatics?

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

LOL.
Here’s part of the conservapedia entry on how old the earth is:

Critics of [geneological dating of the earth’s age] claim that Biblical genealogies are compressed and therefore useless for deriving the date of Adam’s creation.[3] Some creationists also claim that human lifespan may once have been several times its current length based on a lowal level of fall-related entropy and of the age given for Methuselah in Genesis – 969 years. A longer average life would result in later average age of breeding, which would render the genealogical dating method incorrect.

Helen @ 196

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

I think Leahy’s game is aimed at trying to get Specter to just “stfu srsly” that the HJC can surely work something out with the WH to get to the bottom of all these investigations and just move on. All off the record. All without transcripts.

Srsly.

http://www.strike911.org/

here is something silly:

NEW YORK — A public school teacher was arrested today at John F.
Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while
in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule and
a calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said
he believes the man is a member of the
notorious Al-gebra movement.

He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with
carrying weapons of math instruction.

“Al-gebra is a problem for us,” Gonzales said. “They desire solutions
by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of
absolute values.

They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’ and refer to themselves as
‘unknowns’, but we have determined they belong to a common denominator
of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.
As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say,’There are 3 sides to
every triangle’.”

When asked to comment on the arrest, George W. Bush said, “If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have
given us more fingers and toes.”

Aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or
profound statement by the President.

cleter @ 75

Why are there little noticed provisions in legislation? Isn’t legislating their job? Shouldn’t they read crap that they pass? Would we accept this level of slackness from any other highly paid professional? Would it be ok for a chef to say “because of a little noticed provision in our kitchen, your meal tastes like ass” ? Memo to Congress–if you don’t have time to read the bills, make time–or don’t pass them.

Generally I agree. What the Republicans did in this case was load up a huge bill and give Democrats just a couple of hours to read it before the vote.

And, if Dems had voted against it they would’ve rammed it down our throats in every election until the end of Eternity.

They did something similar with the Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq. They dared potential presidential candidates to vote against “fighting terrorism”. Few voted against it and some didn’t bother reading it at all. They knew the game by reading the title. That’s why I sympathize with Clinton & Edwards. They were put between a rock and a hard spot.

Too much crap gets through that way and, if I recall correctly, Pelosi is trying to do away with it by making all legislation available long before the vote. They should also put it on the Internet for public review. Earmarks for spending are, I think, just the start of it.

Transparency is good!

Jonathan @ 215

It’s 8:00 p.m. here EST.

I’m hoping some foul-mouthed fems will come along and keep me awake.

I’m so proud to be part of such an important blog. Thank you Susan Collins

I guess science is only good when its used for weapons development.
Ed*ard Teller @ 224

GordonM @ 184

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

LOL.
Here’s part of the conservapedia entry on how old the earth is:

Critics of [geneological dating of the earth’s age] claim that Biblical genealogies are compressed and therefore useless for deriving the date of Adam’s creation.[3] Some creationists also claim that human lifespan may once have been several times its current length based on a lowal level of fall-related entropy and of the age given for Methuselah in Genesis – 969 years. A longer average life would result in later average age of breeding, which would render the genealogical dating method incorrect.

I’m not so sure the King will give Leahey an audience…interesting…What could W say…yes, I made the decision to terminate the USAs (when he already said he wasn’t involved) or no, I wasn’t involved, but I agree with what happened (then it wasn’t at his pleasure); or I told Rove to handle it, and he assured me(Rove is not authorized to handle it)….or..I told Gonzo to take care of it…but Gonzo said he just signed off on it, using the PA…

I mean what could Bush say? Leahey could say to Bush…get rid of Gonzo, or I’m going to start hauling people in on contempt. I think that is what the intent of the letter is. Bush will simply look at him, smirk, and say “bring it on”….

Ed*ard Teller @ 223

GordonM @ 184

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

LOL.
Here’s part of the conservapedia entry on how old the earth is:

Critics of [geneological dating of the earth’s age] claim that Biblical genealogies are compressed and therefore useless for deriving the date of Adam’s creation.[3] Some creationists also claim that human lifespan may once have been several times its current length based on a lowal level of fall-related entropy and of the age given for Methuselah in Genesis – 969 years. A longer average life would result in later average age of breeding, which would render the genealogical dating method incorrect.

The earth is 4.6 billion years old. I remember it was a Thursday.

argosfalcon @ 211

Well at lest little boots can’t appoint a horse to the Senate (but the courts maybe half a horse).

…and we know which half, don’t we? :-)

Bob in HI

Helen @ 196

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Put Leahy and Bush together in a room. Who comes out on top? Course Bush will say no to this, unless he can have an army of his administration with him.

But Leahy will have made his point, which is that Bush is chickenshit. And involved in all kinds of illegal acts.

Loo Hoo. @ 81

Tori Clark just said that Obama is attracting the higher income, more well-educated democrats, and that Hillary is attracting the less educated, low-income voter.

Where in the world would she get that kind of information?

You’d think those ‘well-educated’ Dems would have noticed by now that Obama isn’t very deep and he’s mostly just a traditional machine pol who isn’t very Progressive, despite talk about ‘hope’ and ‘a new way of talking about politics’.

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

jim o’connor @ 236

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

Could be something like, we have evidence enough to impeach Gonzo, and we will…why do you want to put Gonzo, your good friend, through this?

LS @ 237

jim o’connor @ 236

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

Could be something like, we have evidence enough to impeach Gonzo, and we will…why do you want to put Gonzo, your good friend, through this?

Ah, now, that would be music to my ears!

Bob in HI

jim o’connor @ 235

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

He’s scheduled a recess hearing on Monday re: warrentless wiretapping. You can find it here. His letter only mentions the USA issue – but…. I dunno.

LS @ 237

jim o’connor @ 236

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

Could be something like, we have evidence enough to impeach Gonzo, and we will…why do you want to put Gonzo, your good friend, through this?

It means something that Specktor urged Leahy to write the letter and then Leahy saying that in the letter.

jayt @ 215

I believe you have the bingo. It was prepared long before it was sprung…. Carter had a ‘plain English’ order which was one of the first things Reagan changed…

Quiet progress in public diplomacy

Karen Hughes gets it. When Al-Jazeera TV criticized our policies, most U.S. officials would respond by condemning the network, but she realized that it would be smarter to participate in its talk shows, and she sent bilingual officers to present our views on it. When one of them was criticized in the United States for a comment, taken out of context, that was critical of the United States, she defended him. We are now much more engaged in a helpful dialogue with our Arab critics that reaches a huge Arab audience.

Bush won’t meet with Leahy and Leahy knows it. And even if Bush did meet with Leahy it wouldn’t solve any of the issues.

But Specter was pushing this solution at the last hearing. Going through the motions calls Specter on his bullshit while appearing to work with Specter and Bush.

In the end it *might* move Specter into a position where he can say “I tried everything and the wh didn’t cooperate.” If not, Leahy still looks like he’s done his best.

Then Leahy can lower the boom and who can argue?

Loo Hoo. @ 234

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Put Leahy and Bush together in a room. Who comes out on top? Course Bush will say no to this, unless he can have an army of his administration with him.

But Leahy will have made his point, which is that Bush is chickenshit. And involved in all kinds of illegal acts.

Where is Junya? Brush-bustin’?

Helen @ 238

jim o’connor @ 235

Leahy’s letter seems like a culmination. Maybe, just maybe, something of substance is about to happen.

He’s scheduled a recess hearing on Monday re: warrentless wiretapping. You can find it here. His letter only mentions the USA issue – but…. I dunno.

Go Leahy!!!! Not letting up on the wiretapping.

Ahh when little boots was kegtapping he was not wiretapping.

new thread

Montaq @ 220

I hope I’m responsive.

The draft worked, while it worked, for 2 reasons: 1) lots of young males, and 2) a kind of unified, John Wayne-type of culture.

It began not to work once ordinary Americans came to realize (because of the efforts of 1960s organizers) that government was off-track.

Specter may be at the point where he’s saying: “OK, Leahy, there’s some real shit here … if you offer to meet with the wh and it goes south on us, I’ll have to side with you on getting to the bottom of this your way.”

Loo Hoo. @ 208

GordonM @ 184

Well, they did try (using the same software) something called Conservapedia, but I think it fell apart when an ideological schism arose about what letter comes after “G”.

Kinda like Fox’s attempt at a comedy show to rival Stewart? Some thing just ain’t.

Or Mike Huckabee playing in a “rock and roll” band. Not the real deal.

On a lighter note the Dow Jones fell 207.6 points today. Bush ownership society, meet real costs of subprime lending.

The congressional retirement season has started, and it appears former Speaker Dennis Hastert may soon announce his own plans to ride off into the sunset

Kathryn in MA @ 226

here is something silly:

NEW YORK — A public school teacher was arrested today at John F.
Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while
in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule and
a calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said
he believes the man is a member of the
notorious Al-gebra movement.

He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with
carrying weapons of math instruction.

“Al-gebra is a problem for us,” Gonzales said. “They desire solutions
by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of
absolute values.

They use secret code names like ‘x’ and ‘y’ and refer to themselves as
‘unknowns’, but we have determined they belong to a common denominator
of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.
As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say,’There are 3 sides to
every triangle’.”

When asked to comment on the arrest, George W. Bush said, “If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have
given us more fingers and toes.”

Aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or
profound statement by the President.

That is a riot! Where did you find it?

SeamusD @ 212

… Inherent contempt? One can only hope. For who? Rove, Miers, who else didn’t even show up for Senate subpoenas?

Actually, I do rather find them inherently comtemptable. The entire basis for Bush’s exec priv claim is that he is above Congress and the law. With the GOP fractured and Rove gone (threat of blackmail removed) many moderate goopers can get their distance by taking shots at the machine.

In the old days not long ago, the Rove WH had the GOP controlled Senate Judiciary blackmailed to the hilt with WH campaign support and cash (carrot), plus whatever dirt he could dig up as the stick (from the man who creates dirt from clear air).

Reality may be slow for these guys to catch on to, but at some point comes the intersection. Rove is gone, and I think more goopers in Congress will feel free to hit the brakes and try to steer clear of the wreck before elections… But personally I think they are already acccurately branded… This is not to say that we don’t have to keep piling on with activism right up to the finish line of the next election.

As I see the R*N*C, A*E*I, Abramoff, Bush, Rove, Cheney, Libby thingy I see what looks more like a criminal enterprise under RICO than your typical political corruption… This is a national, no indeed an international, machine.

Tough nut to crack, it takes a long time and a lot of damage to start seeing meat. But we have seen some pieces extracted, and more to come I expect.

Apparently there is another scandal yet to be published by Larry Flynt?

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Que?

Jonathan @ 247

Montaq @ 220

I hope I’m responsive.

The draft worked, while it worked, for 2 reasons: 1) lots of young males, and 2) a kind of unified, John Wayne-type of culture.

It began not to work once ordinary Americans came to realize (because of the efforts of 1960s organizers) that government was off-track.

How about defining terms? Let’s start with “worked.” Worked in what way? Preventing a futile war? In fact, it did precisely the opposite–it enabled it.

Conscription is a fundamental evil in the hands of people with political agendas–and especially so in times such as these, where the political standard is to “talk tough.”

The surest way to keep people from being unnecessarily killed–on both sides–is to not put them on the battlefield in the first place.

As for this evening the playing field of who ends up in combat, the current crop of Republicans ought to be example enough that the system can always be gamed to the advantage of those with the connections and determination to do so. The composition of the armed forces would still be predominantly those without the resources to evade service.

A massive mistake in judgment by Bush shouldn’t then encourage yet another. A draft, at this time, is mistaking an effect for a cause and, therefore, encourages the wrong solution. Doing that always makes the initial mistake worse, not better.

Pretty soon we’ll be able to liveblog the erosion of our freedoms.

Interesting article linked to above about Hillary attacking Bush.

Does she not realize everybody already knows Bush is an idiot?

Has she forgotten she hasn’t yet won the Democratic Party nomination?

Are any of the positions she’s stating of her origination or long-held?

How does she claim to be, in any way, Progressive? Was it the flag burning legislation?

I guess ‘running’ against Dubya is easier than facing other Democratic challengers. Does that mean she admits she isn’t up to the challenge of facing other Dems?

Is this the ‘direction’ she wants to take the country(?), away from the true challenge she is supposed to be engaged in — trying to win the Democratic Party nomination?

I guess she found a crowd and stood off to one side and said, “I’m your leader, follow me.” and then went off wandering in the desert for 40 years.

I do hope she returns to the real contest, so somebody can kick her ass (metaphorically speaking).

Loo Hoo. @ 217

nolo @ 186

not content to “sit and
wait it out” all through august,
today — in a letter sent to the
white house — senator patrick leahy
requested a face-to-face meeting
with u.s. president george bush,
to get to the bottom of the u.s.
attorneys’ firings scandal, and his
obstructing the senate judiciary
committee’s investigation of it.

see it above.

Thanks, nolo!

my pleasure, lolo!

as to the speculation about the “why?”
of this letter, my guess it that
bush will not agree to meet, and
sen. leahy will then have more fodder
for the “what’s he hiding?” cannon. . .

it is, in my estimation, act-one in a
three-act political kabuki theatre of
the unseemly: it sets leahy up to really
pound bush after all the august vacations.

but what do i know?

MarkH @ 254

Helen @ 196

OK, all you brilliant political minds – WTF is Leahy’s game here? I haven’t a clue.

Que?

see the link in the immediately above post of mine, markh.

p e a c e

This just goes to show that the leadership in congress is really not up to the job. We need younger leaders who will take the necessary time and energy to stay on top of what’s important. I would think that Conventional wisdom would dictates, that after having passed a bad bill, it would be much harder to amend, given the narrow margin that we have in both houses, yet the leaders keep putting these bills out. I can’t seem to get my head around this gross incompetence.