I’ve been waiting for what seems like ages for Glenn Greenwald to publish the column detailing the results of his interview with feted “war critic” turned Iraq War cheerleader Michael O’Hanlon, and boy howdy, it doesn’t disappoint. You can read Greenwald’s column here with a full transcript of the conversation available here.
One by one, my man G2 demolishes the pillars supporting the conventional wisdom about O’Hanlon and Pollack’s wildly mendacious Op-Ed, “A War We Just Might Win” until finally, poor O’Hanlon must have desperately wanted to curl up and hide, whimpering, underneath the table. This is why over at Sadly, No! they call Greenwald, “Glennzilla”.
The lies are so thick on the ground around this issue that it’s hard to know where to begin, but let’s start with one of the more glaring falsehoods, that O’Hanlon and Pollack (both from the pro-Iraq-War “liberal” think tank, the Brookings Institute) were “fierce critics” of the president’s catastrophic invasion of Iraq.
I have to doff my hat to Greenwald for taking the time to wade through O’Hanlon’s verbal dreck, by the way. Clearly, Michael O’Hanlon has caught on to the think tank practice of using as many words as possible to say as little as you can conceivably get away with.
Greenwald asks, “Don’t you think it was a little disingenuous to describe yourself as a ‘war critic’?”
The answer to that question would be “yes” or “no” in a perfect world.
First, I think that to an extent, at least, it’s certainly fair to go over a person’s record when that person themself is being held up as playing a certain role in the debate. So while I’m not entirely happy with some of the coverage I’ve received here [on this blog] and elsewhere, I agree with the basic premise: that if I’m being held up as a “critic of the war”, for example by Vice President Cheney, it’s certainly only fair to ask if that is a proper characterization of me. And in fact I would not even use that characterization of myself, as I will elaborate in a moment.
The guy makes Dan Gerstein look concise. But of course, as a “scholar” in the Foreign Policy Cult of “Serious” Thinkers, O’Hanlon knows that he has to lay down a thick layer of obfuscatory grease on any point that he makes, especially when faced with as tenacious an inquisitor as Glenn Greenwald. Maybe he thought that if he launched enough fallacious assertions, we’d all glaze over at the number of targets and stop paying attention.
Greenwald’s post puts the lie to the “war-critics” meme by pointing out that O’Hanlon was wildly in favor of the invasion, offering (at best) tepid criticisms in the minutiae of strategy back in 2004, reservations only slightly less voluble than Bill Kristol’s at the time. Then comes the fact that, contrary to Pollack and O’Hanlon’s assertion that they met with a wide range of “American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel”. Under direct questioning, O’Hanlon sheepishly admits that the entire junket was sponsored, orchestrated, and choreographed by the Department of Defense. Pollack and O’Hanlon met almost entirely with individuals hand-picked by the US military. This was a dog and pony show, plain and simple, and anyone who tells you otherwise is quietly clapping their hands under the table and believing in fairies.
In short, this “remarkable”, “eye-opening” Op-Ed is every bit as spurious and intentionally misleading as Judy Miller’s “scoops” in the NYT about Saddam’s WMD’s. Unfortunately, our national media is so trained to roll over and play dead on command that this patently false representation of the current situation in Iraq was paraded through the city gates and greeted with cheers and accolades and is still being used as a dray horse in the war debate.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, will they ever learn?
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hey!
2nd!
two?
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
6?
four, five or six!
boing – reverse two and a half somersaults, tuck position, legs slightly tilted upon entry, with slight splash the result
g’evening everyone
(repeat performance)
Kristol is really carrying teh water on TDS
Jon Stewart is embarrassing Little Willy Kristol.
well, 7 is OK too…
masaccio @ 9
ain’t it great?
Suzanne @ 6
hiya suzanne! you should come to Texas and do real dives at the pool with me and my friends.
What kind of fuckery is this?!?!
Suzanne @ 6
What was that about handcuffs? In the pool?
Share Our Wealth!
LoudounLib @ 8
Bill Kristol thinks you’re a pussy.
;)
wangdangdoodle @ 16
hehehe, that was awesome!
Evening, gang. Very busy here at work just now. I’ll be with you all in a bit.
I promise.
wangdangdoodle @ 16
Right there was where you lost me.
“…will they ever learn?” Rhetorical question, right??? ;-)
That just sounds dirty…
No, they will not learn. This is their actual business model, and that of the corporatocracies that own them: Hurray for The Regime! Until We the People take back our journamilzm and our government, we will be subjected to these cheerleaders disguised as cheerleaders.
The idea that either of these two could be in any way cast as war critics is amazing, given their entirely sycophantic support of The Regime’s War on and Occupation of Irak. Glennzilla, in a perfect and just world, would immediately replace Tucker Carlson on MSNBC. But, in this world, does anyone even expect many ripples beyond Salon for this extraordinary work debunking the War Myth?
(hiya T!)
EvilDrPuma @ 19
You had to be there.
For what it’s worth, I think Little Willy is a pussy.
Hmmmm, that doesn’t sound quite right….
G2 really deserves an award for this piece. I was a bit surprised these fellows admitted so much after going so far with the big lies in the first place. But I don’t drink Koolaid.
Surprised this is on topic. O’Hanlon isn’t the only one participating in the pro-surge blitz.
John Burns has this bit of fellatio up at the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..us.html?hp
Burns makes his usual half-hearted gestures at balance but the real object here is to show how terribly fair and thoughtful Petraeus is.
and
Yeah, right. This tripe might have been more believable I suppose if Burns had not begun his article with the image of Petraeus flying over the amusement parks and soccer fields showing how things have improved (been there done that) or if Petraeus didn’t hang out so much with the likes of Hugh Hewitt and Fox News. John Burns acts like he is one of the last people on the planet who doesn’t know what Petraeus is going to say in September: difficult situation, some progress, need to stay longer, bad things will happen if we leave, etc. Of course Burns does know all this but then he works for the pro-war New York Times.
wangdangdoodle @ 23
OH! Now I get it!
D’oh.
Does anybody know what this was about? The article has been removed from the link —
jayt says:
August 13th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
JPL @ 119
LS @ 95
The Walton story:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..15583.html
OMG, IF Rove is tied to this, no wonder the strange press conference
Must close down for the night and give my little six pound sweetheart some attention. I can tell she is worn out from chasing the ball and getting tender strokes from the neighbors. I’ll settle in with a good book and Molly next to me. That is perfect. Good night all. Until tomorrow….
OT..My former neighbors had a “neck tie party” for Cheney.
http://www.newwest.net/index.php/topi…..e/C67/L37/
QuakerGirl @ 29
Have fun!
‘gnite Q.
Y’all want some fuckery?
I got yer fuckery right here.
According to Scott Horton, Ken Starr violated Rule 6(e) (which, to refresh, is a felony) in cooperating with Gerth and Van Natta on their book-length smear of Hillary.
http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/Pub…..5820701270
‘night, QuakerGirl.
burnspbesq @ 33
are we still within the statute of limitations?
Yew kin put the whole damn trinity on a pogo stick! More Murdoch’ll make it worse…
Check out this fuckery:
The “Liberal” Media
Dave Lindorff has a great piece up over at Buzzflash where he asks why Dennis Kucinich has disappeared from the paper of record even though he’s clearly still in the race, and beating Biden and Richardson in some polls. Lindorff states that
Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has been “disappeared.” Not in the sense of victims of America’s so-called War on Terror. He hasn’t been carted off in an orange jumpsuit to some black site in Kazakhstan. But he has been “disappeared” by the reporters and editors of The New York Times.
He notes that
In an article by Jeff Zeleny and Mark Santora on Sunday headlined “Democrats Say Leaving Iraq May Take Years,” the Times reports that Democratic candidates, with only candidate Bill Richardson “standing apart,” are saying that troops will have to stay in Iraq and the area around Iraq for a long time.
burnspbesq @ 33
oh, snap! Think there’ll be any follow-up?
Also..
In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have to be asking the question.
cassie swore? i fear we have corrupted her – nice job cassie :)
Here is the Walton story http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..15583.html
Curious in Central Texas @ 28
Article at NYT here
Suzanne @ 35
Don’t know from personal knowledge, but Scott has always been a careful and thorough lawyer, and The American Lawyer is extremely careful about fact-checking. So my guess would be that that Mr. Starr still has some worrying to do.
Suzanne @ 40
It’s a sure sign that big Brother is not in the room.
The FCC is a broken institution if Murdoch is allowed to swallow both the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times in a matter of a month.
Fuck this nonsense – he ain’t even an American and he already controls, what, a fourth of all media (printed, televised, cabled, and music)
Damn Murdoch. Reminds me too much of that neighbor who used to always yell at me to get off his lawn.
TeddySanFran @ 42
And notice who the judge is!
Reggie Strikes Again!
Evening, all. I was in a really fey mood today, so this ravings post is a bit obscure. If you like you can have some fun with it tho.
http://spookinthemachine.blogs…..nhais.html
SnarKassandra @ 37
Who still takes the NYT seriously? The right wing thinks it’s too liberal, and the rest of us know the truth: that the Grey Lady is just a little easier than she used to be.
This pussy’s going to bed. Y’all carry on…
Curious in Central Texas @ 28
Judge Walton has ordered the reporters to reveal their souces because… erm, the guy who was smeared as the anthrax guy – is suing…
no ones knows if Rove is a leaker… I think it’s a bit speculative to say so now…
g’night wangdang!
what a day
starts w/ rove resigning – ends w/ bill kristol guesting on the daily show, trying to hold his own w/ jon stewart, but ultimately failing, as the facts crumble support for his positions.
then jon ends the show w/ a priceless “moment of zen”…..that will live on & on & on…karl rove being interviewed in 2004 about the plame leak. rove states unequivocally, that he had no idea who leaked her name & was sure the spec prosecutor was going to do a good job.
it doesn’t get much better then this for damn liberal hippies
Just a slight correction to your post: according to Greenwald’s interview (and O’Hanlon’s answers, if they can be believed) O’Hanlon and Pollack did leave the Green Zone – but only for a few hours at a time, and under the military’s itinerary.
Perhaps events have passed me by, as I read GG’s post this morning. Maybe somebody fact-checked O’Hanlon’s answer and proved him wrong. If so, ignore this comment.
wangdangdoodle @ 48
night wdd!
When my girls were little, I would sprinkle food coloring on the snow in Big Bear, and tell them that the fairies were nearby. They believed it until they were about eight.
Suzanne @ 40
I had to double-check the byline on that one….
LoudounLib @ 38
I’m sure Gonzo will get right on this.
Good evening, Althespook!
Good night doodle.
Thanks, SeamusD and TeddySanFran. Glad to see this case is making progress.
TeddySanFran @ 56
If he remembers to recall to check his calendar…
Glenn Greenwald!!
First, I think that to an extent, at least, it’s certainly fair to go over a person’s record when that person themself is being held up as playing a certain role in the debate. So while I’m not entirely happy with some of the coverage I’ve received here [on this blog] and elsewhere, I agree with the basic premise: that if I’m being held up as a “critic of the war”, for example by Vice President Cheney, it’s certainly only fair to ask if that is a proper characterization of me. And in fact I would not even use that characterization of myself, as I will elaborate in a moment.
who wrote this essay? was it G.L.Obfuscation???
althespook @ 46
hurray, da Spook is in the house! was just going to ask if you’d been around (scurries off to read spook’s blog)
Speaking of non-americans, I sure hope they remove that pesky amendment stating that immigrants can’t be presidents.
You know, the last time this world had an Austrian leading another country, it really turned out well.
Loo Hoo. @ 54
My wife used to tell our kids that they could not do things (like clean their rooms or help mow the lawn) because it was a “city ordnance”. This was when they were about four and three. When the older one learned to read, one day we were out driving and he suddenly grabbed his brother and pointed and whispered frantically and they got very still and serious. My wife asked was was going on, and our oldest replied, “I thought you were making up the stuff about city ordinances, but there it is right on that sign!” She smiled contentedly and said no more (it was a snow removal sign IIRC). Trick worked till the oldest was about eight, which was good enough.
althespook @ 65
They were not allowed to clean their room?
TeddySanFran @ 56
If they were to ever set their minds to seriously investigating every Republican crook in DC, the good men and women of office of the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia would be so “resource constrained” that they wouldn’t have time to go after Starr.
I’m not holding my breath on that.
SnarKassandra @ 37
disappeared by the n.y.times
ridiculed by Kos
he gets it from every side
because he’s the only one speaking coherently
okay edwards says a few decent things
I dont know if it’s an act or not
the rest are just a bunch of
republicans
Dover Bitch @ 61
The contrast between the holy new media and the sick old media could not have been clearer as at YKos when Greenwald sat at one end of the stage with Mike Allen, the pleaser, at the other. You could see the energy pulse. It was an extraordinary moment of the twenty-first century. And Glenn is such a gentleman!
RonD @ 57
And good evening to you, RonD! Glorious day, isn’t it?
Yes but! Per a David Bromwich article:
Yesterday, Glenn Greenwald demolished the credibility of O’Hanlon, Pollack, their employers, and the mainstream fools who pimp their product. Somehow, the word has to get out as to how bogus and orchestrated this pro-surge PR really is.
SnarKassandra @ 66
please take out the “not”. I’m so tired I can’t type tonight. after that change it does make sense.
TeddySanFran @ 69
Glenn rules. He doesn’t accept any bullshit, which is all the warmongers have left (if they ever had anything else). I think it’s safe to say that Glenn will never get that interview with Petraeus like Hugh Hewitt was able to get.
burnspbesq @ 33
This is so much a part of why I want Hillary to win. I am so proud of her standing up to the bullshit for 17 years.
Dover Bitch @ 62
He certainly Rocks!!! Hey, DB, what’s shaking…???
Al, I saw the news this AM, went outside, and could have sworn the clouds had cleared a little. Now, to pray for an Atwater-style repudiation of his former self broadcast on all news channels.
A beautiful day, indeed.
CTuttle @ 75
Kinda bummed. I forgot Sundance Channel was showing “We Jam Econo” tonight (Minutemen documentary… the band, not the xenophobes) and it doesn’t look like it’s airing again. I really wanted to see it. Guess I’ll have to buy the DVD.
a friend sent the link to today’s Paul Slansky’s hufpo column.
get yer fresh hot rove questionaire here:
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-slansky-/witness-to-history-the_b_60207.html)
“Witness to History”: The Karl Rove Quiz
1) How did Karl Rove and George W. Bush meet?
a) Rove was working as Republican National Committee Chairman George H.W. Bush’s assistant and one day his duties involved delivering a set of car keys to his boss’s eldest son.
b) Rove was a star player on the Andover baseball team that Bush was a cheerleader for.
c) They both attended a Houston bonfire of Beatles records after John Lennon said the group was more popular than Jesus.
d) They sat next to each other on a plane, got to talking, and found that they both really loved to hurt people.
2) Which convicted Watergate conspirator was the young nerdy Karl Rove a protégé of?
a) Jeb Magruder.
b) G. Gordon Liddy.
c) H. R. (Bob) Haldeman.
d) Donald Segretti.
hufpo site has 3 more questions plus the answers
Alright, kids. I have to go home and work on my first Vlog, now. I’m trying to have it done in time for Late Late Nite.
See you in a bit.
WaPoO chatz tomorrow; questions accepted anytime!
Staff writer and blogger Paul Kane at 11am eastern (his chatz debut, I believe!)
Oxfam America’s senior policy advisor on humanitarian issues Shannon Scribner at Noon eastern.
Opinionist Eugene Robinson at 1pm eastern
So, althespook, any random or not so random speculations? btw, enjoy the court analogy you’ve been using.
in my skeptical little brain, “spending time with family” is code. In Hollywood, “suffering from exhaustion” equates to “overdose after exhaustive rounds of parties.” Inquiring minds would like to know, what does “spending time with family” really mean?
What’s the over/under on how many days before Rove cashes his first consulting fee check from a Republican candidate for President?
I’m thinking … four.
Educated Plaintiff @ 77
1 A
I wrote about Rove today too. LINKY
SnarKassandra @ 37
This is so wrong, and so typical of what happens in local elections. We have to really be on guard of this sort of thing.
TRex @ 79
a vlog? fuck, i’m on dialup. i shall have to rely upon the kindness of pups.
“Will they ever learn?”
I don’t think it’s a question of learning. They’re part of a propaganda program, and most of them know it. Some of these croaking toads may even think they’re being patriotic by supporting the WH in war. That’s certainly the conventional wisdom-CFR approach.
Making it clear to them that they are both being propagandized themselves and are acting as conduits for propaganda doesn’t seem to faze them. People of a basically imperial frame of mind aren’t fazed by being branded as imperialists as long as they are able to redefine themselves and their tendencies as benign and altruistic.
That’s part of what the long-windedness and prevarication is intended to do–make the unpalatable and unseemly seem benign and morally acceptable.
Suzanne @ 85
but the pups really are kind and we do love you.
looking at my comment, that wasn’t very supportive of trex’ first vlog – sorry…
take two
yeah trex – vlog away.
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 80
i have a minor in chinese history. my prof was a n english “old china hand” so I really got some good stories out of the class too. And there is much about the current situation in the WH that smacks of the Ming Court in its later days (try wiki for some fascinating and largely accurate (IMHO) articles.
The key points are two:
1) The Bush family changed their travel plans to get both his son and wife to the wh so they could fly down to the ranch (dragon island) with the pres. This strongly indicates the resig was not planned.
2) The real emotions both were showing. Bush in particular. Sociopathic emotions, but emotions nonetheless. It was a grim presser, right on the edge of tears. The strongly indicates the resig was forced by something truly awful.
3) This both helps and hurts cheney. helps because he has more access to the idiot emperor than before, but hurts in that his major blackmail hold over Tai-Shrub was the ability to throw Rove to the wolves. That is a lot harder now.
So as indicated in the raving, the whispers continue…
Loo Hoo. @ 74
But she still wants to attack Iraq, and thinks Israel is her friend!
So when do Rove and his new BuSh Jeb come out of the closet on plans to continue the die-nasty.
Suzanne @ 87
I love how the people here support each other and say nice things and even apologize if they weren’t so nice the first time.
Wigwam at 71,
Their bogus PR and outright lies were seen and believed by an awful lot of people, and even though Greenwald did a masterful job of exposing them, there will be no retractions. Not a single one of those media whores who sat back and portrayed those two lying little pricks as journalists will utter a word to undo the damage their faux-reporting may have done. In fact, they will no doubt continue to refer to their report as proof that the the surge is working.
Suzanne @ 88
Suzanne, that was actually quite supportive of TRex’s endeavor….extreme disappointment was my initial reaction too, given that I won’t be able to see it and will also have to rely on the kindness of the pups. And they like you better…
Some words from four consecutive wire service headlines struck me just now:
“US life expectancy lags industrial world”
“US cheap labor key”
“New Iraq deployments to be announced”
“Surge succeeding, bolstering Bush”
Dunno why this combination bothers me, but, hey… I guess this is O’Hanlon and ilk’s world now, not mine.
Shadowstalker @ 93
we like you too!
SnarKassandra says @82
I wrote about Rove today too. LINKY
wow cassie – ive never been to your
site before. well done!!
BTW this is when Charlie Rose comes on here. There will be segments on Rove, with Markos Moulitsas and finally Anthony Cordesman.
Wow – bit a*s storms moving into downtown Mpls
**puts on party hat in anticipation of the vlog premiere**
Educated Plaintiff @ 96
Thanks! That is my site with friends. I have my own site too with more than just politics.
Why thank you, Cassie! After the day I’ve had…cranky teething grandbaby and all…it’s nice to hear pleasantries!
OT to note the passing of one of the great old queens of Hollywood: Merv Griffin. We will miss him.
SnarKassandra @ 91
The Lake is a very special place. That’s the main reason why so many of us (moi included) only hang out here. It is an oasis of the Shining City On The Hill that the founders of America intended it to be.
Ghod, that was pompous! (shudders in pleasure) I haven’t gotten to do pompous in soooooo long…
What kinda party hat Teddy SF?
ohh yeahhh – another dog and pony show – nothing new – but the lies roll on and on… i’m terminally skeptical – i dont buy none of the swill bushco sells and they sell lots!!
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 81
Basically, “spending more time with my family” translates as The Sheriff Is On My Tail. Usually applies to an impending sex scandal. In Karl’s case, see emptywheel’s list of ongoing investigations closely tied to Rove, downthread here, or over at http://www.thenexthurrah.com.
wini @ 99
Which means they’ll be making their way to michigan later. We could use the rain, actually.
Hugh @ 97
the rove segment sucked. couldnt he have gotten anyone better to interview on the subject??? (dont get me started on charlie rose…)
markos was great tho
SnarKassandra @ 37
Notice, Cassie, that this is not the government oppressing a political candidate it finds threatening-it is a private corporation, in coordination with other private corporations, that is deciding which candidates will be covered and which will be deemed unacceptable, in order to promote the agenda of their owners, within the desired parameters of the diktat.
This is fascism, pure and simple, in its most basic form. “The merger of State and Corporate power”, in the words of Benito Mussolini, who knew a little about the subject.
itwasntme @ 103
And the queen of New York City, Brooke Astor, who passed today at 105.
aliasofwestgate @ 108
Same here (needing rain). And living in a 100 year-old bldg provides some comfort, so I rather enjoy these things..
On the Rove segment, Jim Vandehei, Mark Halperin, and Jake Carney (sp?), a sucky panel.
SnarKassandra @ 105
Sparkly pink top hat with sequins, here. Yours?
GG nailed his ass lol- thank heavens for him cutting through all that swill ;o}
burnspbesq @ 33
I’d so enjoy seeing Starr convicted of a felony for this one.
TeddySanFran @ 113
My cousin fell asleep on my bed. So that must mean I get to stay up all night and watch the Vlog, right? OK. I don’t have a top hat. I have a clown hat! How’s that?
wigwam @ 115
I want to see Kenny Boy revealed as:
a) a serial perjurer
b) an adulterer (preferably with sheep)
c) a leaker of classified information.
That would be cosmic as well as poetic justice.
SnarKassandra @ 100
wow cassie! equally impressive! and you cover so many categories!
its people like you that helps me keep the faith about america’s future.
thank you.
Educated Plaintiff @ 108
Great minds, EP, great minds, I swear I did not read your comment before I wrote that I thought the panel on Rove was sucky. Will definitely catch the Markos talk. Thanks. Agree about Rose too.
Grin to all – esp. to TRex for his vlog debut, to SnarKassandra for knowing when it is appropriate to curse in public, to althespook for some tremendous pompous, and to shadowstalker for having survived a teething grandbaby. I don’t usually comment, but the atmosphere here at the lake really is inspiring. Cheers and thank you pups, Hhhhmmmm
SnarKassandra @ 116
Sure, why not? What are summers for, after all, but staying up all night?
Hhhhmmmm @ 120
Welcome, Hhhmmmm! I lurked for almost six months before I had the temerity to post a brief comment. The fact that these nice people have embraced an evil old codger like me is truly wondrous. Please continue to join in!
althespook @ 122
Only cause you didn’t tell us you were evil!
Hhhhmmmm @ 121
Hhhhmmmm, welcome to the Lake – now that you have commented – it will be very hard to go back to just reading.
Mark “Matt Drudge rules our world” Halperin, was on the News Hour singing the praises of Rove.
He was the guy from ABC’s The Note who was pleading with Hugh Hewlitt to not call him a liberal and wanted to prove himself to Hugh.
Eric Boehlert’s great book “Lapdogs How the Press Rolled over for Bush” talks about what a tool Halperin is(and I mean tool in both senses)
(waving to spocko)
SnarKassandra @ 123
picky, picky, picky…
hey spocko!
Marretta @ 92
bill kristol just came back from 8 days over there gave jon stewart the “surge is working” mantra tonite on the daily show.
he also said attacking iran would be a good idea, but it was said while jon was talking so it was easy to miss.
TeddySanFran @ 111
Philanthropy, that is giving away one’s fortune for the good of others less privileged, is sure a vanishing practice. The filthy rich used to compete at it, now they compete at conspicuous consumption.
Hugh @ 113
How could that group possibly speak about Rove with their collective lips placed on his anus?
Al, lawful evil we’re okay with. It’s that chaotic evil we’re worried about…
Just saw this at HuffPo — if there’s ANY truth to it, we oughta get some good minds to work ASAP:
kristin (See profile | I’m a fan of kristin)
“Rove, the last and most prominent of Bush’s inner circle of Texas advisers to quit the administration..” Or has he just gone underground?
“At this point, maybe Karl Rove can achieve more for Bush and the Republican Party outside the White House than inside it. Rove may have found a quasi-legal way to keep the Republicans in power:: A right-wing law firm is working with the GOP to steal the 2008 election by destroying California’s winner-take-all system of electoral votes. Instead, the electoral votes would be divided per results in each congressional district. Estimates are that this would give the GOP presidential ticket at least 20 electoral votes because of safe GOP districts that it wouldn’t get under the rules in any other state. Speculation is that if the Republicans have this advantage in a state that normally goes Democratic, the Democrats cannot win the White House.”
TeddySanFran @ 131
TSF, SOME of us are trying to eat supper here…
SnarKassandra @ 101
From a Mom who wishes Democratic ideals for her children, Cassie, we love you.
Chris
Christine Edmonson @ 135
I love y’all too.
RonD @ 132
Chaotic evil means never having to say you’re sorry.
“In short, this “remarkable”, “eye-opening” Op-Ed is every bit as spurious and intentionally misleading as Judy Miller’s “scoops” in the NYT about Saddam’s WMD’s. Unfortunately, our national media is so trained to roll over and play dead on command that this patently false representation of the current situation in Iraq was paraded through the city gates and greeted with cheers and accolades and is still being used to ink the waters on the war debate.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, will they ever learn?” Trex end of post
Which is why I am far from reassured that things are going to improve anytime soon no matter how the elections next year turn out. A large part of the GOP’s structural advantage has been the level of control it has over the dialogue in the mass media in America, including organs that were once seen as top of the line hard hitting fact solid sources (NYT, Wash Post, just to name two prominent yet far from alone examples) and even with the counterbalance of the online community and news providing functions this media form will retain a lot of power over literally millions of voters perceptions of the world around them.
I being born and raised in Nova Scotia from the 60s onwards to today have been extensively exposed to American mass media audio, visual, and print. I remember reading National Review in the 70s and finding very substantial political discussions, not of tactics but of policy and principle substance and a strong attention to fact based reasoning. I recall watching how the Watergate hearings were covered by the networks in a level of detail one doesn’t even see on the cable newsnets let alone the traditional networks.
It has been horrifying to watch the transition once the fairness doctrine was eliminated. I thought at the time it would cause some problems but never did I think it would have come to something so blatantly similar to the Pravda style of the old USSR, let alone so quickly. The rise of conservative media outlets exclusively so with no room for respect for dissenting voices and the way it was able to increasingly influence the trad media throughout the 90s in the constant Clinton phantom scandals was bad enough, but the last seven years, well really I cannot overstate just how much it has literally frightened me to watch.
I used to visit the States, I will not anymore, not since Bush43 and the way your civil rights and legal system has been perverted is bad enough, but the abuses in the name of national security are truly terrifying. Yet the limited amount of information in the trad media even now on this sort of thing which seems so much more than it used to be is still only a fragment of the ugly reality. So I fear that even (hopefully, and given current lines of probability likely) once the Dems take power all around the electoral branches of government in 2009 that unless the media is forced to return to a fact based first and respecting various POVs in some sort of fairness doctrine revisited that any gains will be short lived and these forces will return again within a decade of losing power, and given what they have done this idea is one that frightens me.
You (America) are going to be a major power throughout the rest of my life even after the damage Bushco has already done. My nation is resource rich in things needed by America, and for the first time in my life I have found myself genuinely afraid that America may choose to literally come and take us over if we try to walk our own path as we did throughout the Cold War while still working with America. The lies and the destructive politics that have become the norm in America are something that have truly destroyed America’s good name, even with those of us that once found great comfort in it being America that was the greatest power on earth because it would not abuse it as other great powers had throughout history. What has been lost in all of this may never be retrievable, and if it is it will be decades to even possibly centuries, it will depend on how close to a true “truth and reconciliations” level exposure of the evils done by the GOP especially in the Bush43 years occurs after they lose power. Which in turn will require it being covered honestly/fairly, and without that I truly fear that America has gone too far to recover from, at least for a generation, and that as your closest neighbour is more than a little unnerving.
Sorry, I know I’m rambling here, it’s been a long day, and while I take some comfort that Rove is leaving, I have to wonder what difference it truly makes at this point given the damage he and his “master” have done. Worse, the damage that still millions of Americans do not know about because the SCLM have not reported, and this is among those that actually aren’t already dismissing the SCLM because it is too “liberally biased” to trust. I take what hope I have from places like FDL and writers like yourself CHS, EW, just as I do from many other blogs like this one that are fighting back against the darkness which descended upon America and Americans these last seven years. However, until there is clear respect for the rule of law as the primary basis for how any society and government operates there is no chance of America restoring her good name internationally I fear, which is also why I take such comfort in that the voices I take my hope from equally value the rule of law and the principles embodied in the American Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights.
althespook @ 134
Funny, revolting, but funny
althespook @ 89
Thanks! i noticed in diff. news reports the emotion, but don’t remember seeing any thing about travel plans. Verrrry suspicious.
I wanna know the real reason kkkarl is leaving – this was not planned – something is afoot – my spidey sense is tingling that something is very wrong
a Karl Rove cartoon about lies and the truth and Plato
alexandriacynic @ 134
more here
This is a very frightening attempt to steal the presidency (again) by the GOP, under the guise of “fairness.”
Hi Suzanne! Hey TRex! Hi althespook! I wish I had gotten to met you all in real life at YKos. I got to see and hug Teddy which was cool.
(BTW, Teddy is much taller in real life than he appears on screen… )
TeddySanFran @ 131
lol – but thats zactly what they did!
Marretta @ 93
O’Hanlon is a lying prick, and Pollack seems to be an agent of a foreign power. Per Greenwald:
And per the Wikipedia:
Kos is up now on Charlie Rose — east coast.
rove will never quit his bushie trust and believe that – skeptic that i am – there’s a method to this particular madness – watch wait and we’ll see god i hate bushco
Suzanne @ 142
yup.
Educated Plaintiff @ 145
That is completely gross.
cherish @ 107
thanks, read it already. Facetious comments don’t travel thru the toobz to well ….
RonD @ 132
SOMEBODY used to play D and D. I once ran a campaign with my sons and two friends where the all played “evil” characters. My wife grumped about it but I said “Trust me.” I let them do a few minor nasty things, but made sure there were consequences for each. Then when the dungeon crawling got hard and hot, they started doing plenty of lawful good stuff by habit. we continued the campaign and at the end I arranged for a chance to “change alignment”. They all went Neutral or Lawful Good because as they said, “Hi! We’re Chaotic Evil! Can we help you?” just didn’t cut it!
(I used a nasty little variant called “body” points. when your “hit points” went to zero you started losing “body” points, based on your Constitution score. Each grouped loss represented a real physical wound, and the more points the “worse” the wound was. Curing spells for hit point also cured body points, but only up to the wound “level”. Suddenly Cure Critical Wound made a whole lot of sense…and when those hit points got low the characters started behaving like real people.
TSR invited me to a GenCon in the late 1980’s where I ran six dungeons using this system. Never had so much fun in my life to that point.
Suzanne @ 141
But is it wrong for BushCo, wrong for us, or (God help us) wrong for everybody?
spocko @ 145
… and rounder!
EvilDrPuma @ 154
that’s the mystery still to be solved…
TeddySanFran @ 154
I heard your name is Teddy cause you are gentle as a teddy bear.
ehh, was always more of a cyberpunk guy, myself… the whole “corporations took over our govt” theme made more sense to me than trawling around in dungeons! But I haven’t played any rpgs in like 10 years…
spocko, i wasn’t able to go this year – instead i stayed home and manned the fort here at the lake
i feel fuckery’s afoot even more in the land with slivey toad road on the loose….
BTW, Suzanne, how goes the house-showing?
john dean’s new book is coming out next month, actually its release date is sept. 11.
it’s called “Broken Government: How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive and Judicial Branches.”
i’m surprised there’s been no drumbeat for this book yet. you know how great Conservatives Without Conscience” was.
Did y’all know he was married?
Suzanne @ 159
And man it well you did, ma’m!
*(channelling CT!!!)*
RonD @ 161
talked to my agent this afternoon – she said she will call the showing agent tomorrow for feedback. fingers and toes crossed
SnarKassandra @ 163
who is the he sk?
Scotian, it’s not much fun from the inside, either. One thing gives me a little hope. Polls show that the American people are starting to realize that they are being lied to, and are responding. Trust in MSM is way down, more people are getting news from alternate sources. All we can do is keep yelling, hope enough people hear us. Impeachment would make a tremendous difference.
TeddySanFran @ 143
On the surface this looks bad, but it has a few drawbacks:
1) It will be challenged in court and stayed for 2008 unless SCOTUS quislings do a certio rari and jerk it through fast like they did the 2000 stolen election.
2) If it does pass reveiw, bet that a number of states which are barely going red and dumping lots of votes to the rethugs will suddenly follow the same scheme, and a lot of liberal votes in big cities in places with vicious rural “folk” will suddenly get counted in the EC.
3) If a few do it, all will want to do it. And that is an effective “popular election” rather than “electoral college” election. And WAY too many power groups in the here US of A are built on the EC system as it is. So look for them to push back fast if this starts.
Bottom line, it to me is a desperate straw grab with no real chance of making a difference in 2008.
Suzanne @ 165
Oh! Karl Rove
SnarKassandra @ 163
if you mean rove, i have to admit, i never knew that for sure. assumed he was, but has anyone ever seen mrs. rove?
SeamusD @ 90
Show me what you know about her wanting to attack Iraq. Why is having Israel as an ally a bad thing? Granted, Bush has totally screwed up the mideast, but how would that be Hillary’s fault?
SnarKassandra @ 169
*shudders*
dmg @ 169
I posted her pic on my site today. Click my name
SnarKassandra @ 169
yeah – and that his kid is off to college – which makes the family story a wee bit harder to believe
dmg @ 170
Pictures in earlier threads – she’s a vision.
Does that mean my family won’t want to spend any time with me when I go to college in 3 yrs?
dmg @ 170
don’t have a link but she looks exactly like him – twins! I tell ya!
Educated at 130,
I hope that Stewart wiped up the floor with him. Kristol has a lot of blood on his hands. He has a lot of nerve going on the Daily Show. I hope they disinfect the chair after he leaves and smudge the stage with sage to clear out his warmongering cooties.
Yes, Scotian, hang in there. We won’t come into Canada for your resources. . . but to stop your nuclear arms program.
I say Deborah Jeane Palfrey, the DC Madam, had a hand in this Rove suddenness, emotion, travel plan changing (comforting the wife and son on AF1).
Suzanne @ 142
Neo-cons, Cheney, Iran. I think Rove was pushed out for the same reason Gen. Pace was removed…Iran and Bush’s legacy. I think Bush has bought into Cheney’ vision of Bush as a great President; when Bush is on his death bed.
Bombing Irn would be a Wagnerian ending to the Bush Presidency.
SnarKassandra @ 176
not at all cass – just that a kid going off to college is no reason to quit your job – is when you need the income to pay for college
My best wishes, Suzanne.
Suzanne @ 173
Which BushCo resigners did you believe when they said that…? (Rhetorical question.)
Well, this is good night. Be excellent to each other.
SnarKassandra @ 173
omigosh. it’s the same person wearing a different outfit!
ewwww.
TeddySanFran @ 180
that would be very entertaining!
g’night EDP
Good night Dr Evil
tsf – you think the big shocker of a name that larry flint(?) has been dangling out there is roves?
(waving to the sleepy pups leaving)
EvilDrPuma @ 183
Night EDP. Have a Pool going on whether Gonzo goes tomorrow…
TeddySanFran @ 179
True, dredging up the family, usually means that there’s a hooker, and pictures.
Suzanne @ 189
I betcha Jeff Gannon could use a million bucks.
OK. I am going to bed too. ON THE STUPID COUCH. Gonna give Aunt Petunia a chance to use the computer.
others have undoubtedly mentioned this, but i think rove leaving is either the result of investigations creeping ever closer to him — jmm and talkingpointsmemo raised this earlier today — or, more likely, if he’s gonna sell access to president bush, he’s got to do it while bush is still president.
i really don’t think rove is going to be all that welcome in the next white house, either a democratic or, god forbid, a republican one.
or it could be a combination of these two reasons.
g’night Cassie
Suzanne, well maybe next year! My favorite panels at YKos were “Blogging while female”, two on how to battle the religious right, one with the FCC commissioner and one with Glenn Greenwald and a few other book authors and publishers.
Glenn is very sharp and it was great to talk to him. He talked about how the book publishing people said that his book couldn’t be turned around fast enough to be timely but they eventually did.
I’m also thinking about writing the FCC commissioner now that I asked him a question in a session (we are practically buddies)
I can send him some of the actual horrific audio clips from KSFO that I referred to in my question. He can then use them when he talk about examples of what happens when there is a rubberstamping of the radio licensing process.
SnarKassandra @ 193
night sk. couches can really be quite comfy…
Just when you thought the hubris couldn’t get any deeper…
http://www.americablog.com/200…..esign.html
This is cute…
Top 11 Signs You May Be the Geek Choice for President
SnarKassandra @ 176
It means that you’ll be too busy to want to spend much time with them.
Charlie Rose isn’t on here tonight.. The Greatful Dead have invaded my PBS station… considering it’s out of Springfield, MO, a buckle in the Bible belt.. I really think it may be a technical failure of some sort…)
SnarKassandra @ 175
Cass, it tends to work the other way: college-age kids, such as Rove’s, often don’t want to hang with their parents or authority figures, They generally want to spend most of their time with friends or romantic interests. Your family will love to see you. Your time for them may be a bit more stretched than you imagine-which is neither bad nor good, just the way the world works.
rove leaving means there is trouble with a capitol t in whitehouse city – why the hell did cos bolton have to put out a memo saying if you are still here sept 1, you are here until jan 09 – is there a mass exodus in the works? are we gonna be asking daily who resigned today? august is not the month to roll out new products – so this is preparation for something else?
tis a puzzlement.
TeddySanFran @ 193
Or Matt Sanchez
dmg @ 161
im sure the drumbeat will begin & that keith will continue to talk about it.
hopefully dean will grace us at the lake again with a book salon once its out. love that man. sure could use another one like him right about now.
TeddySanFran @ 114
Now come on, Teddy. There are sparkleys of many colors. Don’t be so pink!
al, i freed your first one – gotta have some patience when your comment gets caught in the filters.. refresh your page and you will see it
Maybe Rover wants to join his son at college so he can play Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School?
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 179
Snap! That was one of my first thoughts too.
GSD @ 208
are you thinking rover is gonna be giving me competition for the triple lindy?
GSD @ 208
That’s what I love about the TradMed speculation about Rove “teaching” — kinda need a college degree for that, Rover.
So is Gonzo more expendable now that Rove has been kicked to the curb?
Suzanne @ 209
sorry suz, mega tired here, will remember. (hides behind beach umbrellas in shame…)
Loo Hoo. @ 171
Loo Hoo, I meant she still thinks attacking Iran might be a good idea. I tried to edit and screwed up. And I mean she listens to A*P*C, is too cozy with Israel, for any credibility with Arab countries. Israel really has no interest in making peace with Palestinians, Lebanon, IMO.
Snap yourself, persiflage! *g*
… and Loo Hoo, my hat IS pink. Can’t change that at this late date, I’m sure the vlog is about to premiere!
But who gives out degrees in vote caging?
GSD @ 207
Getting smashed with Rove would be an interesting experiment in Field Sociology…I wonder what he’d have to say after 10 or 12 drinks?
althespook @ 213
no problem ak – i dumped the duplicate comment when i freed the first one
smapdi @ 217
Regent comes to mind…
Marretta @ 177
sorry to say kristol held his own as far as bantering w/ stewart. ‘course stewart had it over him in the facts department, but he was too much of a gentleman to perform the smackdown i was hoping for.
The degradation of the Media is more the fault of allowing them to be owned by other corporations, such as GE or Disney. Of letting them become monopolys. They need to be broken up ASAP. How Murdoch can be allowed to buy major US newspapers is really beyond me. Congress should move on this soon, but I doubt they will, the cowards. Meantime, advocate for Net Nutrality.
Think tank ’scholar’? What is with this scholar stuff? Just because you are in a think tank, that doesn’t mean you are a scholar. I remember a few years ago the term ‘policy entrepreneur’ became popular. These people were selling their bright ideas or insightful analysis. It was all over the place -health care, social welfare, finance. That is OK, if you are willing to submit your stuff to real examination. But where does selling your ideas and skills stop and selling yourself begin? I don’t hear the term ‘policy entrepreneur’ much any more, and I am glad it has gone out of fashion. But I wonder whether it has gone out of fashion in the high realm of foreign policy and international relations?
People been criticizing Matt Yglesias because he has noted the obvious fact that many of these people would like hotshot jobs in the next administration. That is supposed to be an unfair out of bounds charge, but it is very probably true. Actually it is not an unfair question. In engineering, health care, medicine, finance, all sorts of professions, you are supposed disclose your interests. Having an interest doesn’t disqualify you. You make the disclosure and make your case. Not disclosing an interest is really bad. being dishonest and misleading and shady is really bad. I read something where Pollack and O’Hanlon were asked indirectly about that, one of them kind of said ‘yeah, we want a gig’ and then the other intervened and they both fell all over themselves saying how disinterested and objective they were. Hmmm. Not sure that was honest. Better to say ‘Darn tooting, we have better ideas, and let’s talk about them. Let ‘er rip, we have the right ideas and we will prove it to you.’ That is just my opinion. But if you have an interest, you should declare, rather than sneaking around, which is what these guys did. They claim they didn’t know how they were being presented? I don’t believe it. How they presented themselves in their column is evidence enough for me that they were sneaking.
Whether these people are scholars got nothing to do with whether or what think tank they come from, or if they are professors at some university or research institute. It is whether they are willing to submit themselves to some serious questioning of what they’ve done and engage in serious debate. Which I do not see among the Very Serious People in the policy establishment. It’s seems more like a networking club. What I see in the media seems very clubby and censored and 100% bogus.
Now, I am not a scholar, but I’ve spent time with them. What goes on in real scholarly seminar rooms is quite brutal and direct questioning and debate. Often some one will polite offer an outrageous theory to challenge you, just to see if you’ve thought things through. Comment sections on good blogs (except the ‘blog attitude’ thing is really not acceptable in a seminar) act more like scholarship than these dudes, from what I have seen in the media.
So don’t care where they come from or if they are think tank or university or whatever. If they did their homework and are willing face off with a real opponent (with some kind of fair ground rules) in public, then they are scholars.
Maybe these conferences they go to are real debates and rigorous cross examinations, I dunno. But what I think Samantha Powers said in her column sounds right to me: things have gotten soft and careerist and clubby, not scholarly, and its getting so bad it about to reach bogusness. I think there is a Great Eminence syndrome going on too. People with big egos would like to be the next great eminence. Marshall and Kennan were great eminences that shaped the world, and maybe they got that ball rolling, but they were professionals (military and foreign service) and maybe that gave them self discipline that the think tankers and professors don’t have any more.
I give credit to O’Hanlon for doing the interview with Greenwald. He acts like some one who once was a scholar and still has enough shame to realize he has slipped over into naughty scholar. But he has some work to do. For example this:
“First, I think that to an extent, at least, it’s certainly fair to go over a person’s record when that person themself is being held up as playing a certain role in the debate.”
Should be
“It is absolutely necessary to go over a person’s record in detail when that person themself [grammar?] has obviously played a significant role in important debates.
Fashion is big in the scholar world. New theories are like the new fall shoe line. Maybe the multilateralism and international governance stuff is old hat. So everyone is jumping on unilateralism or ad hoc Concerts of Democracies (or Purchased Allies, Convenient Flunkies, Mercenaries) We Agree With as a substitute. From a moral viewpoint it seems very depraved to me, since it threatening to kill and destroy seems to always be the first or second resorts in these deals, and when you add ‘unworkable’ and ’sef-defeating’ that makes a bad stew.
The media should try this going over a preson’s record and have debates. But I am so cynical and disillusioned, maybe they shouldn’t. They will go over whether s/he made a pass at student ten years ago, or ever kicked a dog, or actually discomforted even slightly a media pundit star on the TV. Since that will make a better show, an angle they think the audience will ‘get.’
LoudounLib @ 221
I forgot it was a sacrament nowadays.
TeddySanFran @ 179
lots of talk about that in all the downstairs threads today – (larry flynt’s name was bandied about too)
one can only hope
Fozzetti @ 223
One of my sources told me something curious yesterday. Remember how ATT “edited” a webcast of a concert where anti-bush lyrics were being sent. Turns out it has happened once before.
Given all the flat it’s causing, I asked my source why ATT was doing it. His answer “to show loyalty in return for causing the Hospital Raid and for protection in the Illegal Wiretap lawsuits”.
Just an interesting take I thought I’d share…
SnarKassandra @ 193
nite cassie
Ten bucks says Rove is playing cards with Scooter Libby, Claude Allen and Jack Abramoff.
The Losers Club.
-GSD
Scotian @ 139
IMHO, we must find a way to force “the unseen hand” in that direction,i.e., to punish liars and reward the honest in the marketplace. But I don’t know how to do such a thing.
Good evening dear friends.
Yep. Headed that way too. Good night, everyone. The best of all possible tomorrows to you all.
TeddySanFran @ 215
I’m glad you put that *g* there although I’m thinking ’snap’ might be a good substitute for ‘fuck’ while in polite company, as in “Why don’t you just go snap yourself, Persi.”
g’night RonD
RonD @ 232
night rond!
I’ve been thinking about this all day and my two favorite reasons for Rove’s sudden departure are Gannon’s forthcoming book and the 41 lawyers petitioning congress to investigate the bogus trial of that Governor that Karl allegedly ordered a political hit on. The Republican lawyer who ratted him and his buddies out is taking a lot of heat for speaking up so my bet is every thing she says she heard actually happened. I don’t think Dubya can use his unitary executive powers to get his buddy out of either of these two little scandals.
Suzanne @ 202
someone on either hardball, or countdown mentioned tonite that rove had hired bolton & so would be unlikely to take marching orders from him
Latest OpEd from NYT on Rove:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08…..ref=slogin
(may require registration…)
Educated Plaintiff @ 219
Elliott @ 148
Cordesman?
RonD @ 217
“Margaret Shhhpellings’ is a lying whore!”
-GSD
Rove has a college-age son, eh? Not serving in the military? What a surprise.
Bloody hell.
Does it always take a two minute video, like, twenty minutes to upload on to YouTube?
Who is Arthur Scheuerman?
http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2…..cheuerman/
smapdi @ 215
lol
I’m don’t know why I’m doing this but I’m Listening to Rush Limbaugh talking about that question during the AFL/CIO debate, that guy from LVTSteel, who lost 1/3 of his pension and then his healthcare. Rush is BLAMING this guy for getting into this situation. He is BLAMING the woman who’s husband DIED in a mining accident.
He is saying that THEY are really responsible for their problems (and of course for voting Democratic) and he saying how sad that these Americans are playing the “we are dependent” card.
In Rush’s world he never gets help from ANYONE. he paved the highways himself and creates the world anew each morning through the force of his will.
That is one of the great tricks of Limbaugh, he covers his hateful cruel comments under the guise of “American rugged individualism” so that people can feel good about those other people who really SHOULD have made different choices. Because if he doesn’t blame then well then it could happen to ANYONE and that we might have to DO something about it.
TRex @ 241
just be glad you are not on dialup – that twenty minutes would be more like 3 or 4 hours
Educated Plaintiff @ 224
It’s also a classic delaying tactic: “Darby won’t yell at me in front of the kid… and the President, on his own plane!”
TexBetsy @ 230
Evening, Aunt Petunia!!! ;-)
Scocian, I will forward your letter to Russ Feingold and other democrats who know what is what.
Well, I’m concerned that perhaps some part of this process has derailed and I may need to start over.
So, on a DSL connection, is it normal for it to take twenty minutes or should I start over? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
TeddySanFran @ 246
bet that was a chilly car ride after landing…
persiflage @ 231
oh, wait — is this polite company?
CTuttle @ 248
I am the meanie that won’t let Cassie wake my son and kick him out of the bed. Makes me Aunt Petunia.
TeddySanFran @ 205
If they want a million bucks, I suggest they earn it. They know how.
TRex, I don’t think DSL should take that long — might be a problem there, sorry :-(
TRex @ 250
don’t know TRex… never uploaded before… did you “convert” it to the YouTube format? that might take some time…
TRex, I have never uploaded a video to YouTube. But it takes a while to upload a dozen full size photos, if that helps.
TSF : oh, wait — is this polite company?
How the snap would I know?
I do know that uploading is much slower than downloading…
TexBetsy @ 252
Classic ‘Sour Grapes’…!!!
Does anyone know anything about this?
Five reporters must reveal their government sources for stories they wrote about Steven J. Hatfill and investigators’ suspicions that the former Army scientist was behind the deadly anthrax attacks of 2001, a federal judge ruled yesterday.
-GSD
Grumble, waiting, waiting…
*drums fingers*
I’ve recorded my first vlog and as soon as it’s ready, I will put it up as a Late Late Nite post.
TRex @ 250
DSL is usually lots slower uploading
TRex @ 262
And some of us who don’t see it will know it’s terrific, anyway, right?
This off topic, but I am just venting cynicism tonight. The latest Matthews weirdness. Maybe it was straight on mail dominance harassment, maybe it was a mean joke, or a sign of trouble. But I said on Digby, I wonder if they are requied to one of those things periodically, it is required schtick in their contracts. You see that creepy stuff all over. Think of the clips on the internet from Fox, and OReilly and other places. I think it’s a marketing deal. They have room full of lawyers monitoring whether it is actionable, they got ‘understandings’ with the victims.
They bosses let it happen. I think many wingnut guys like it. It gives ‘permission’ psychologically, a nice vicarious thrill. The bosses call these people into the corner office and tell them what to do all the time. How many liberals and conservatives to have, not to use boring numbers in the financial segments, no boring facts and history in the foreign affairs segments, they want this much seriousness and that much horsing around. So, this weird behavior is OK with the bosses, otherwise it would stop.
I feel filthy and disgusted with myself for thinking that. But, any arguments why they allow it to happen? They think Matthews is a valuable commodity. If they think he nees some time away for an intervention, he would get one. (OK, that is one argument, he has gotten time away, and he does get interventions. Guess we don’t really know.)
So, OK, maybe I will erase this. Maby my soul is in danger from excess cynicism No, I won’t I think it’s true.
GSD @ 261
Judge Walton’s case http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..15583.html
GSD @ 260
was judge reggie walton ruling on the anthrax doc suing the gov for leaking his name as a suspect…
karma is a bitch
CTuttle @ 260
I see she neglected to mention to you fine people that he was on HER bed because she dumped two baskets of clean laundry onto his bed.
TexBetsy @ 268
lol — busted! ;-)
Oh my.
Judge Reggie Walton has ordered 5 reporters to reveal their government sources in the anthrax case.
Who are the government leakers?
-GSD
TRex @ 249
I’ve seen it take nearly forever, I’ve seen it take under ten minutes, I haven’t seen rhyme nor reason for the difference. I have to assume that it’s driven by server load at the time of uploading.
TexBetsy @ 267
does make a difference
sorry I meant ‘male’ dominence above. I guess I was confusing Matthews with some other media star who was weird throgh the mail.
And OReilly is blaming mine widows on air? That is worse than Matthews, that is sick. But not the first time for OReilly. See, this is marketing. It makes money. It is a strategy that they make money off of. The bosses are not outraged and they don’t care, unless you boycott or something.
I came to this sibling rivalry thing rather late in the game, when she was 14 and he was 11. But I am getting the hang of it.
Ah ha.
I had not compressed it.
TRex @ 262
Trex, how big is the file, as in megabytes?
Hatfill’s suit, filed in 2003, accuses the government of waging a “coordinated smear campaign.” To succeed, Hatfill and his attorneys have been seeking the identities of FBI and Justice Department officials who disclosed disparaging information about him to the media.
Now who in the US government, or who used to be in the US government was in the habit of smearing folks as a distraction from other things?
-GSD
TexBetsy @ 268
Well if she took care of the laundry she’d have a bed rather than the couch! But, classic teenager petulance and/or laziness bars that alternative, eh??? 8-)
Ooh. Ooh.
We’re almost there.
wesgpc #222,
Those are good points. Scholarship should mean something other than a neat affiliation on your name tag. One of the great problems in the media is their use of shorthands. O’Hanlon and Pollack become critics, why? They’re from Brookings and the shorthand for Brooking is liberal think tank. So a stack of suppositions are made one on top of the other. Brookings, liberal, critics. No attempt is made to test the validity of any of this. It’s just assumed and O’Hanlon and Pollack do nothing to dissuade anyone.
But Brookings doesn’t mean what they think it means. Its Saban Center was not created to be impartial. They can go to the American Enterprise Institute and not only is it all collegial there is not serious disagreement. What does it mean to be liberal if Brookings and the AEI are indistinguishable?
It is one of the refreshing and honest things about the blogosphere that it isn’t your connections or what think tank you belong to that are important but the quality of your ideas. I hope it stays that way.
CT it is his laundry, but it’s not her place to dump it on his bed.
TexBetsy @ 268
moments like these remind me of the benefits of an empty nest *g*
had to back away from the ‘puter while a huge storm went over, finally caught up in the comments (gasp, wheeze, puff) boy you pups move fast.
So g’night all. i will fall asleep wondering what the rest of News-Dump-August will bring.
OMG, how have we not talked about how AJ has given up women and S&M?!!!
;0)
TeddySanFran @ 155
night farmgirl
g’night ndfg
SeamusD @ 41
Merci beaucoup!
FITZ & Walton forever!
TexBetsy @ 281
Ain’t sibling rivalry grand! I’m amidst a war zone too, 15yrold daughter and 13yrold son!!! My oldest(daughter) gave us respite, a ten year lag prior to the squabbling duo!!! *g*
TRex got it loaded upstairs
checked b4 going to brush teeth, and TRex’s Vlog is upstairs!
RonD @ 218
If he’s human at all, he’d snooze!
Hugh says: August 13th, 2007 at 10:05 pm:
I think what you say must be true. And I understand that shorthand is needed on TV, especially these days. But why don’t they research? As noted above, I am feeling very cynical today, and I am thinking right now everything is intentional and about marketing and money.
I used to think that they were too lazy or arrogant to do some resarch or have their interns do some research or call up a college or univerity. Now I think its all strategy. More like
“OK, we need somebody from a place that says, in shorhand, liberal, to balance the maniac tonight. But they can’t disagree, since that might get unpleasant, and need to keep them through the evening news and then through our Tuesday hit lineup. So, need to find a shortahnd liberal, but not too liberal, needs to soften the maniac, can’t actually disagree. has to agree on major points X, Y and Z, that is key, since if the WH or Senator Zed sees anything against those, the merger is cooked. So, who’s on the list we can use? This maniac will need some serious softening, he is scary, need a real good softener, but not a disagree-er.”
I need a drink.
TRex @ 242
Should not, TRex. I assume you shut down the computer and started over…
SnarKassandra @ 143
{waves}
Good one, Cassie!
I imagine Plato’s response would have been something like Glenn Greenwald would say!
Bob in HI
persiflage @ 258
Pardon me, ma’am. I always try to be very polite. I’m sorry that it doesn’t always work wrt this administration. But please…I’m working on hats and gloves…
GSD @ 261
Walton is requiring it. The same judge as in the Libby trial!
Grumble.
TRex @ 297
If it helps at all, you’re cute as a button!
SeamusD says
August 13th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
“Scotian, it’s not much fun from the inside, either. One thing gives me a little hope. Polls show that the American people are starting to realize that they are being lied to, and are responding. Trust in MSM is way down, more people are getting news from alternate sources. All we can do is keep yelling, hope enough people hear us. Impeachment would make a tremendous difference.”
Believe me I take some comfort in that, the only question is whether the momentum needed will be achieved to make this a long term self sustaining process, which is what I fear is needed to be able to have any hope of undoing the majority of the damage Bushco and the GOP have done to your legal system and principles. As for living under it, I would certainly not enjoy that at all, as it is being this close to it and knowing that American police have been given near unfettered access to Canadian citizens for investigation if they see them as a possible “national security threat” under American rules is more than a little unnerving. Especially if one suspects as I do that the GOP/Bushco have redefined potential terrorist into anyone that opposes them/liberals of all types because they believe their own rhetoric about how under every liberal is a potential traitor to America.
Hugh at 179:
If only…:)
Seriously, it is not that I am expecting it or any such thing, it is just that for the first time in my life I am forced to accept the potential that it could happen, and happen all too easily given what we have seen Americans surrender out of fear to this Administration. Before witnessing the past seven years I simply would not have believed it possible, that too many Americans would have gotten up in arms over having their precious rights and Constitution trampled on, especially from within the right since while I tended to disagree with traditional republicans on many things they tended to be sincere about these points/principles.
The movement and neo conservatives have perverted conservativism and Republicanism into something far darker and more ugly, and worse to me they have managed to export that into Canada as our current PM is a devotee of Leo Strauss as are his fellow Calgary School adherents in his inner circle. He even embraced in both a policy speech and paper as Leader of the Official Opposition in 2003 that the only way for Canadian Conservativism to succeed was to emulate the GOP culture war model of politics, in other words the Rove specialty and his subsequent actions show him following that model to the best of his ability to adapt to our socio-political environment. Thankfully it has not managed that well here, and that while he is the PM it is with a weak minority that has become increasingly a laughingstock in its mindless zeal for a majority government at any cost. He can and is still doing some real damage but hopefully he cannot wholesale corrupt our legal/judicial processes the way the GOP and Bushco did to yours.
So Hatfill alleges that there was a concerted smear campaign that was run out of the FBI and DOJ.
To pin the blame for the anthrax attacks that targeted reporters and Democrats in Congress.
That helped fan the flames of fear and suspicion during the run up to the war.
-GSD
refugee zed
althespook @ 301
too late, trex got it with his grumble
TexBetsy @ 298
second that. wish you would have spoken, tho.
So instead of a blog madam, I come to you this evening as my own blog whore!
And some cake to cheer up TRex.
I got the last word, in a ghost post.
Trex, you get an A for effort, and an A for listening to well meant comments. *smooches*
I suspect we’re going to see more vlogging from you in the future. I sure hope so!
Suzanne @ 302
he earned it. talk about an innocent mistake.
TexBetsy @ 304
TexB, where DO you find these cakes?
trex, don’t forget to close comments on that thread.
althespook @ 308
Part of what I do at my real job (the one that pays the rent) involves extensive use of yahoo image search. I save all the good ones.
Loo Hoo,
Pardon me, ma’am. I always try to be very polite. I’m sorry that it doesn’t always work wrt this administration. But please…I’m working on hats and gloves…
I have never found you to be anything but polite, generous and lovable. I’ll bring my tiara (can’t wear hats) and leather driving gloves.
Hey Trex if you really want be misunderstood try archaeology.
I will just say this on my way to bed. I am very happy to hear differing views but after a long day of Rove it really helps to lighten up in silly creativity with adults who we know are being silly in snark with the use of the word retarded or retardo, whatever it was.
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you should censor it, imo.
TRex.. obviously it was a great first piece since it evoked an asortment of reactions especially unintended reactions…and I laughed out loud… thank you for that on what has not been a humorous day for me.
Anyway, the thrill is gone now..
Good nite fabulous pups.
persiflage @ 311
I have a picture of Dianna Rigg in my head when you say that…
Hmmm… the gods have spoken here, we just had a tremblor! As if a hurricane bearing down on us wasn’t enough!!! *g*
Can we get a hug together for {{{{TRex}}}}? We love ya, hon.
Sleep well Eureka
g’nite es – sleep well
Eureka Springs @ 313
Nite ES. Remember this IS monday the 13th…
CTuttle @ 315
maybe it was trex’ grumble upthread…
(((((((((our therapod)))))))))
Have the winds awoken madam Pelei (sp.)?
Ahem.
huggies for trex
Suzanne @ 320
Damn, what resonance and distance his grumble can attain!!!
i think we are back to a new thread…
AltheSpook : I have a picture of Dianna Rigg in my head when you say that…
——————
Please keep it! Emma Peel was my hero and role model.
FWIW, I think you should have left it up.
I understand that labels have the ability to wound. I understand the idea that mocking someone for a characteristic that they have no ability to change isn’t really fair, and should generally be out of bounds.
But, dammit, it was funny! That has to count for something. And Altmouse wouldn’t hesitate for a second to make some stupid, mean-spirited, un-funny crack about TRex’s orientation. I say she deserves whatever she gets.
TRex @ 297
TRex,
Thanks for having the sensitivity to see the point made by TexBetsy and others. I got upstairs just long enough to scan it and leave what may be the last comment #65), came back down here, then tried to go back upstairs but by then you had taken it down!
I’ve spent the past 20 years doing disability research. Harold Skeels, who was presented with the Joseph P. Kennedy International Award in Mental Retardation in 1968 was a personal friend and role model for my Mother. I have a few minor disabilities myself, and used to be teased about them. So snarky remarks about people with disabilities are a bit like finger nails scraping on a blackboard for me. Would snarky comments about GLBT people be the same thing for you?
Anyway, thanks for your willingness to listen.
Bob in HI
cancer_cures @ 45
Murdoch became a naturalized citizen in 1985 to get around the rules of foreign ownership of broadcasting outlets. http://www.stopbigmedia.com/blog/?p=114
More on Murdoch http://www.freepress.net/murdoch/
There is going to be an FCC hearing in Chicago on Sept 20th on cross media ownership. http://www.stopbigmedia.com/=chicago
TRex @ 79
OH! I haven’t peeked yet but I hope you are holding a glass of Coke and eating an egg salad sandwich!! (alternately, watching American Idol and providing color comments)
The guillotine’s still on the table for the Corporate Media, right?
O’Hothead seems to have a project which involves compiling statistics about the Iraq
War in an anal retentive sort of way. Is this project funded by DoD? Is he trying to get a renewal? Someone should look at the sources of the funding which pays his salary.
I wouldn’t mind if our famously free press rolled over and played dead.
I do mind that they roll over and widdle themslves, and the carpets, and us.
Packaging the NY Times as “librul media” — sigh, barf.
NYT and the rest of the media whore media do such a fine job at publishing the latest Bushist fascist neo-Commie disinformation piece from GoebbelsRove.
They belong in orange jumpsuits, too.
We need to go on a real witchhunt for real witches, the neo-Commies who have infiltrated our government at every level, trying to destroy American democracy, also tossing out the media whore media who have helped them them screw us all.
Themself?
If only the butchery were confined to language.