I've been waiting for what seems like ages for Glenn Greenwald to publish the column detailing the results of his interview with feted "war critic" turned Iraq War cheerleader Michael O'Hanlon, and boy howdy, it doesn't disappoint. You can read Greenwald's column here with a full transcript of the conversation available here.
One by one, my man G2 demolishes the pillars supporting the conventional wisdom about O'Hanlon and Pollack's wildly mendacious Op-Ed, "A War We Just Might Win" until finally, poor O'Hanlon must have desperately wanted to curl up and hide, whimpering, underneath the table. This is why over at Sadly, No! they call Greenwald, "Glennzilla".
The lies are so thick on the ground around this issue that it's hard to know where to begin, but let's start with one of the more glaring falsehoods, that O'Hanlon and Pollack (both from the pro-Iraq-War "liberal" think tank, the Brookings Institute) were "fierce critics" of the president's catastrophic invasion of Iraq.
I have to doff my hat to Greenwald for taking the time to wade through O'Hanlon's verbal dreck, by the way. Clearly, Michael O'Hanlon has caught on to the think tank practice of using as many words as possible to say as little as you can conceivably get away with.
Greenwald asks, "Don't you think it was a little disingenuous to describe yourself as a 'war critic'?"
The answer to that question would be "yes" or "no" in a perfect world.
First, I think that to an extent, at least, it's certainly fair to go over a person's record when that person themself is being held up as playing a certain role in the debate. So while I'm not entirely happy with some of the coverage I've received here [on this blog] and elsewhere, I agree with the basic premise: that if I'm being held up as a "critic of the war", for example by Vice President Cheney, it's certainly only fair to ask if that is a proper characterization of me. And in fact I would not even use that characterization of myself, as I will elaborate in a moment.
The guy makes Dan Gerstein look concise. But of course, as a "scholar" in the Foreign Policy Cult of "Serious" Thinkers, O'Hanlon knows that he has to lay down a thick layer of obfuscatory grease on any point that he makes, especially when faced with as tenacious an inquisitor as Glenn Greenwald. Maybe he thought that if he launched enough fallacious assertions, we'd all glaze over at the number of targets and stop paying attention.
Greenwald's post puts the lie to the "war-critics" meme by pointing out that O'Hanlon was wildly in favor of the invasion, offering (at best) tepid criticisms in the minutiae of strategy back in 2004, reservations only slightly less voluble than Bill Kristol's at the time. Then comes the fact that, contrary to Pollack and O'Hanlon's assertion that they met with a wide range of "American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel". Under direct questioning, O'Hanlon sheepishly admits that the entire junket was sponsored, orchestrated, and choreographed by the Department of Defense. Pollack and O'Hanlon met almost entirely with individuals hand-picked by the US military. This was a dog and pony show, plain and simple, and anyone who tells you otherwise is quietly clapping their hands under the table and believing in fairies.
In short, this "remarkable", "eye-opening" Op-Ed is every bit as spurious and intentionally misleading as Judy Miller's "scoops" in the NYT about Saddam's WMD's. Unfortunately, our national media is so trained to roll over and play dead on command that this patently false representation of the current situation in Iraq was paraded through the city gates and greeted with cheers and accolades and is still being used as a dray horse in the war debate.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, will they ever learn?
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hey!
2nd!
two?
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!
6?
four, five or six!
boing - reverse two and a half somersaults, tuck position, legs slightly tilted upon entry, with slight splash the result
g’evening everyone
(repeat performance)
Kristol is really carrying teh water on TDS
Jon Stewart is embarrassing Little Willy Kristol.
well, 7 is OK too…
masaccio @ 9
ain’t it great?
Suzanne @ 6
hiya suzanne! you should come to Texas and do real dives at the pool with me and my friends.
What kind of fuckery is this?!?!
Suzanne @ 6
What was that about handcuffs? In the pool?
Share Our Wealth!
LoudounLib @ 8
Bill Kristol thinks you’re a pussy.
;)
wangdangdoodle @ 16
hehehe, that was awesome!
Evening, gang. Very busy here at work just now. I’ll be with you all in a bit.
I promise.
wangdangdoodle @ 16
Right there was where you lost me.
“…will they ever learn?” Rhetorical question, right??? ;-)
That just sounds dirty…
No, they will not learn. This is their actual business model, and that of the corporatocracies that own them: Hurray for The Regime! Until We the People take back our journamilzm and our government, we will be subjected to these cheerleaders disguised as cheerleaders.
The idea that either of these two could be in any way cast as war critics is amazing, given their entirely sycophantic support of The Regime’s War on and Occupation of Irak. Glennzilla, in a perfect and just world, would immediately replace Tucker Carlson on MSNBC. But, in this world, does anyone even expect many ripples beyond Salon for this extraordinary work debunking the War Myth?
(hiya T!)
EvilDrPuma @ 19
You had to be there.
For what it’s worth, I think Little Willy is a pussy.
Hmmmm, that doesn’t sound quite right….
G2 really deserves an award for this piece. I was a bit surprised these fellows admitted so much after going so far with the big lies in the first place. But I don’t drink Koolaid.
Surprised this is on topic. O’Hanlon isn’t the only one participating in the pro-surge blitz.
John Burns has this bit of fellatio up at the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08.....us.html?hp
Burns makes his usual half-hearted gestures at balance but the real object here is to show how terribly fair and thoughtful Petraeus is.
and
Yeah, right. This tripe might have been more believable I suppose if Burns had not begun his article with the image of Petraeus flying over the amusement parks and soccer fields showing how things have improved (been there done that) or if Petraeus didn’t hang out so much with the likes of Hugh Hewitt and Fox News. John Burns acts like he is one of the last people on the planet who doesn’t know what Petraeus is going to say in September: difficult situation, some progress, need to stay longer, bad things will happen if we leave, etc. Of course Burns does know all this but then he works for the pro-war New York Times.
wangdangdoodle @ 23
OH! Now I get it!
D’oh.
Does anybody know what this was about? The article has been removed from the link —
jayt says:
August 13th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
JPL @ 119
LS @ 95
The Walton story:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap…..15583.html
OMG, IF Rove is tied to this, no wonder the strange press conference
Must close down for the night and give my little six pound sweetheart some attention. I can tell she is worn out from chasing the ball and getting tender strokes from the neighbors. I’ll settle in with a good book and Molly next to me. That is perfect. Good night all. Until tomorrow….
OT..My former neighbors had a “neck tie party” for Cheney.
www.newwest.net/index.php/topi.....e/C67/L37/
QuakerGirl @ 29
Have fun!
‘gnite Q.
Y’all want some fuckery?
I got yer fuckery right here.
According to Scott Horton, Ken Starr violated Rule 6(e) (which, to refresh, is a felony) in cooperating with Gerth and Van Natta on their book-length smear of Hillary.
http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/Pub.....5820701270
‘night, QuakerGirl.
burnspbesq @ 33
are we still within the statute of limitations?
Yew kin put the whole damn trinity on a pogo stick! More Murdoch’ll make it worse…
Check out this fuckery:
The “Liberal” Media
Dave Lindorff has a great piece up over at Buzzflash where he asks why Dennis Kucinich has disappeared from the paper of record even though he’s clearly still in the race, and beating Biden and Richardson in some polls. Lindorff states that
Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has been “disappeared.” Not in the sense of victims of America’s so-called War on Terror. He hasn’t been carted off in an orange jumpsuit to some black site in Kazakhstan. But he has been “disappeared” by the reporters and editors of The New York Times.
He notes that
In an article by Jeff Zeleny and Mark Santora on Sunday headlined “Democrats Say Leaving Iraq May Take Years,” the Times reports that Democratic candidates, with only candidate Bill Richardson “standing apart,” are saying that troops will have to stay in Iraq and the area around Iraq for a long time.
burnspbesq @ 33
oh, snap! Think there’ll be any follow-up?
Also..
In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have to be asking the question.
cassie swore? i fear we have corrupted her - nice job cassie :)
Here is the Walton story http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap.....15583.html
Curious in Central Texas @ 28
Article at NYT here
Suzanne @ 35
Don’t know from personal knowledge, but Scott has always been a careful and thorough lawyer, and The American Lawyer is extremely careful about fact-checking. So my guess would be that that Mr. Starr still has some worrying to do.
Suzanne @ 40
It’s a sure sign that big Brother is not in the room.
The FCC is a broken institution if Murdoch is allowed to swallow both the Wall Street Journal AND the New York Times in a matter of a month.
Fuck this nonsense - he ain’t even an American and he already controls, what, a fourth of all media (printed, televised, cabled, and music)
Damn Murdoch. Reminds me too much of that neighbor who used to always yell at me to get off his lawn.
TeddySanFran @ 42
And notice who the judge is!
Reggie Strikes Again!
Evening, all. I was in a really fey mood today, so this ravings post is a bit obscure. If you like you can have some fun with it tho.
http://spookinthemachine.blogs.....nhais.html
SnarKassandra @ 37
Who still takes the NYT seriously? The right wing thinks it’s too liberal, and the rest of us know the truth: that the Grey Lady is just a little easier than she used to be.
This pussy’s going to bed. Y’all carry on…
Curious in Central Texas @ 28
Judge Walton has ordered the reporters to reveal their souces because… erm, the guy who was smeared as the anthrax guy - is suing…
no ones knows if Rove is a leaker… I think it’s a bit speculative to say so now…
g’night wangdang!
what a day
starts w/ rove resigning - ends w/ bill kristol guesting on the daily show, trying to hold his own w/ jon stewart, but ultimately failing, as the facts crumble support for his positions.
then jon ends the show w/ a priceless “moment of zen”…..that will live on & on & on…karl rove being interviewed in 2004 about the plame leak. rove states unequivocally, that he had no idea who leaked her name & was sure the spec prosecutor was going to do a good job.
it doesn’t get much better then this for damn liberal hippies
Just a slight correction to your post: according to Greenwald’s interview (and O’Hanlon’s answers, if they can be believed) O’Hanlon and Pollack did leave the Green Zone - but only for a few hours at a time, and under the military’s itinerary.
Perhaps events have passed me by, as I read GG’s post this morning. Maybe somebody fact-checked O’Hanlon’s answer and proved him wrong. If so, ignore this comment.
wangdangdoodle @ 48
night wdd!
When my girls were little, I would sprinkle food coloring on the snow in Big Bear, and tell them that the fairies were nearby. They believed it until they were about eight.
Suzanne @ 40
I had to double-check the byline on that one….
LoudounLib @ 38
I’m sure Gonzo will get right on this.
Good evening, Althespook!
Good night doodle.
Thanks, SeamusD and TeddySanFran. Glad to see this case is making progress.
TeddySanFran @ 56
If he remembers to recall to check his calendar…
Glenn Greenwald!!
First, I think that to an extent, at least, it’s certainly fair to go over a person’s record when that person themself is being held up as playing a certain role in the debate. So while I’m not entirely happy with some of the coverage I’ve received here [on this blog] and elsewhere, I agree with the basic premise: that if I’m being held up as a “critic of the war”, for example by Vice President Cheney, it’s certainly only fair to ask if that is a proper characterization of me. And in fact I would not even use that characterization of myself, as I will elaborate in a moment.
who wrote this essay? was it G.L.Obfuscation???
althespook @ 46
hurray, da Spook is in the house! was just going to ask if you’d been around (scurries off to read spook’s blog)
Speaking of non-americans, I sure hope they remove that pesky amendment stating that immigrants can’t be presidents.
You know, the last time this world had an Austrian leading another country, it really turned out well.
Loo Hoo. @ 54
My wife used to tell our kids that they could not do things (like clean their rooms or help mow the lawn) because it was a “city ordnance”. This was when they were about four and three. When the older one learned to read, one day we were out driving and he suddenly grabbed his brother and pointed and whispered frantically and they got very still and serious. My wife asked was was going on, and our oldest replied, “I thought you were making up the stuff about city ordinances, but there it is right on that sign!” She smiled contentedly and said no more (it was a snow removal sign IIRC). Trick worked till the oldest was about eight, which was good enough.
althespook @ 65
They were not allowed to clean their room?
TeddySanFran @ 56
If they were to ever set their minds to seriously investigating every Republican crook in DC, the good men and women of office of the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia would be so “resource constrained” that they wouldn’t have time to go after Starr.
I’m not holding my breath on that.
SnarKassandra @ 37
disappeared by the n.y.times
ridiculed by Kos
he gets it from every side
because he’s the only one speaking coherently
okay edwards says a few decent things
I dont know if it’s an act or not
the rest are just a bunch of
republicans
Dover Bitch @ 61
The contrast between the holy new media and the sick old media could not have been clearer as at YKos when Greenwald sat at one end of the stage with Mike Allen, the pleaser, at the other. You could see the energy pulse. It was an extraordinary moment of the twenty-first century. And Glenn is such a gentleman!
RonD @ 57
And good evening to you, RonD! Glorious day, isn’t it?
Yes but! Per a David Bromwich article:
Yesterday, Glenn Greenwald demolished the credibility of O’Hanlon, Pollack, their employers, and the mainstream fools who pimp their product. Somehow, the word has to get out as to how bogus and orchestrated this pro-surge PR really is.
SnarKassandra @ 66
please take out the “not”. I’m so tired I can’t type tonight. after that change it does make sense.
TeddySanFran @ 69
Glenn rules. He doesn’t accept any bullshit, which is all the warmongers have left (if they ever had anything else). I think it’s safe to say that Glenn will never get that interview with Petraeus like Hugh Hewitt was able to get.
burnspbesq @ 33
This is so much a part of why I want Hillary to win. I am so proud of her standing up to the bullshit for 17 years.
Dover Bitch @ 62
He certainly Rocks!!! Hey, DB, what’s shaking…???
Al, I saw the news this AM, went outside, and could have sworn the clouds had cleared a little. Now, to pray for an Atwater-style repudiation of his former self broadcast on all news channels.
A beautiful day, indeed.
CTuttle @ 75
Kinda bummed. I forgot Sundance Channel was showing “We Jam Econo” tonight (Minutemen documentary… the band, not the xenophobes) and it doesn’t look like it’s airing again. I really wanted to see it. Guess I’ll have to buy the DVD.
a friend sent the link to today’s Paul Slansky’s hufpo column.
get yer fresh hot rove questionaire here:
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-slansky-/witness-to-history-the_b_60207.html)
“Witness to History”: The Karl Rove Quiz
1) How did Karl Rove and George W. Bush meet?
a) Rove was working as Republican National Committee Chairman George H.W. Bush’s assistant and one day his duties involved delivering a set of car keys to his boss’s eldest son.
b) Rove was a star player on the Andover baseball team that Bush was a cheerleader for.
c) They both attended a Houston bonfire of Beatles records after John Lennon said the group was more popular than Jesus.
d) They sat next to each other on a plane, got to talking, and found that they both really loved to hurt people.
2) Which convicted Watergate conspirator was the young nerdy Karl Rove a protégé of?
a) Jeb Magruder.
b) G. Gordon Liddy.
c) H. R. (Bob) Haldeman.
d) Donald Segretti.
hufpo site has 3 more questions plus the answers
Alright, kids. I have to go home and work on my first Vlog, now. I’m trying to have it done in time for Late Late Nite.
See you in a bit.
WaPoO chatz tomorrow; questions accepted anytime!
Staff writer and blogger Paul Kane at 11am eastern (his chatz debut, I believe!)
Oxfam America’s senior policy advisor on humanitarian issues Shannon Scribner at Noon eastern.
Opinionist Eugene Robinson at 1pm eastern
So, althespook, any random or not so random speculations? btw, enjoy the court analogy you’ve been using.
in my skeptical little brain, “spending time with family” is code. In Hollywood, “suffering from exhaustion” equates to “overdose after exhaustive rounds of parties.” Inquiring minds would like to know, what does “spending time with family” really mean?
What’s the over/under on how many days before Rove cashes his first consulting fee check from a Republican candidate for President?
I’m thinking … four.
Educated Plaintiff @ 77
1 A
I wrote about Rove today too. LINKY
SnarKassandra @ 37
This is so wrong, and so typical of what happens in local elections. We have to really be on guard of this sort of thing.
TRex @ 79
a vlog? fuck, i’m on dialup. i shall have to rely upon the kindness of pups.
“Will they ever learn?”
I don’t think it’s a question of learning. They’re part of a propaganda program, and most of them know it. Some of these croaking toads may even think they’re being patriotic by supporting the WH in war. That’s certainly the conventional wisdom-CFR approach.
Making it clear to them that they are both being propagandized themselves and are acting as conduits for propaganda doesn’t seem to faze them. People of a basically imperial frame of mind aren’t fazed by being branded as imperialists as long as they are able to redefine themselves and their tendencies as benign and altruistic.
That’s part of what the long-windedness and prevarication is intended to do–make the unpalatable and unseemly seem benign and morally acceptable.
Suzanne @ 85
but the pups really are kind and we do love you.
looking at my comment, that wasn’t very supportive of trex’ first vlog - sorry…
take two
yeah trex - vlog away.
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 80
i have a minor in chinese history. my prof was a n english “old china hand” so I really got some good stories out of the class too. And there is much about the current situation in the WH that smacks of the Ming Court in its later days (try wiki for some fascinating and largely accurate (IMHO) articles.
The key points are two:
1) The Bush family changed their travel plans to get both his son and wife to the wh so they could fly down to the ranch (dragon island) with the pres. This strongly indicates the resig was not planned.
2) The real emotions both were showing. Bush in particular. Sociopathic emotions, but emotions nonetheless. It was a grim presser, right on the edge of tears. The strongly indicates the resig was forced by something truly awful.
3) This both helps and hurts cheney. helps because he has more access to the idiot emperor than before, but hurts in that his major blackmail hold over Tai-Shrub was the ability to throw Rove to the wolves. That is a lot harder now.
So as indicated in the raving, the whispers continue…
Loo Hoo. @ 74
But she still wants to attack Iraq, and thinks Israel is her friend!
So when do Rove and his new BuSh Jeb come out of the closet on plans to continue the die-nasty.
Suzanne @ 87
I love how the people here support each other and say nice things and even apologize if they weren’t so nice the first time.
Wigwam at 71,
Their bogus PR and outright lies were seen and believed by an awful lot of people, and even though Greenwald did a masterful job of exposing them, there will be no retractions. Not a single one of those media whores who sat back and portrayed those two lying little pricks as journalists will utter a word to undo the damage their faux-reporting may have done. In fact, they will no doubt continue to refer to their report as proof that the the surge is working.